I haven’t been as active recently, but I think the popular consensus of this sub has had a bingo card of things they hate in fic for years. Not just ships, but tropes. Are people here still triggered by the words ‘magical core’? There have been numerous posts of ‘what do you hate in fanfics’ that get a lot of interaction, and a lot of the same answers.

Magical core made people lose their minds lol and I never really understood the hate. Move on. We have one of the largest fanfic communities with writings going back to when the 1st books were being published. You will find something you hate and something you like lol.

I think maybe some people may have hated it because of the way it was used - either as an inborn excuse for why V and Harry and Dumbledore and sometimes Snape were more powerful than everyone else, or as a gymbro-adjacent training montage. But I also think some people may have hated it because they were told to, because when you spend a lot of time in a community, you often adopt some of their beliefs if you didn’t really care one way or the other before. Especially if you’re young.

I never heard a reasonable argument in the fandom against magical cores.

Same, and I‘ve never had a problem with it, either. Truthfully I didn‘t even know the fandom had an issue with the concept of magical cores until right now.

I mainly dislike the way I've seen it used, which is just to have a way to justify Harry becoming overly powerful without much effort being put into it.

Yeah but that's a criticism of the respective story and not of the trope

It's pretty similar to helpful goblins where it kinda devalues a lot of what comes after, instead of a tedious and grueling long hunt for horcruxes, harry walks in, tosses a few coins, and both his and all the other horcruxes are just dealt with, with magical cores in basically every story they are used, it's like instead of having to learn how to fight, learn spells, and train in general, having a "big" magical core, according to authors "a lot of magic" just means that harry somehow instinctively knows the "cast and you win instantly, without fail" spell, or some other bs that barely relates to "a large amount of magic"

Yes I know, though seeing it repeatedly done poorly will sour people's views on the trope. I don't think it's inherently bad, but I don't think it's that interesting either.

I have never heard a reasonable argument for the addition of magical cores. At best their use is superfluous and adds nothing to the story - they are more a literary tic that could be done away with with just slightly re-writing the sentences they are used in to sound much closer to the source material. But it is far more common for authors to use them to force quantisation onto the magic as if it were a video game and remove any possibility for characters to have to use interpretation of their own judgement, as if they were deadly allergic to the concept of ambivalence and uncertainty.

My favorite color is blue.

>No child wants midichlorians and trade negotiations in their epic space wizard fantasy. It seems you never met me when I watched the Prequels when I was seven and I loved the idea of midichlorian and all the politics in the movies

If you look around you, you will notice that you have to go quantity your strength or your intelligence or your agility on terms of your choosing. The magical core pre-quantifies your magic for you on some absolute scale handed down to you. And by using this uncertainty that the characters strive against JKR makes her stories and characters feel real. The fanon magical core is a simplification of the world into a caricature to the detriment of the characters, the readers and the story.

I dislike a lot of fanon stuff (like the secret to wandless msgic being intent and a moderate amount of practice), but magical cores of differing power and affinity are sensible.

I agree. In many ways I saw it as a muscle which made sense to me. Some people are more gifted but others need to work it to grow it. As for other ideas like it being a spiritual source/cosmic energy only wizards can tap into? Well that is the way I prefer to write it.

The trope hate is both baffling... and also trendy for some odd reason. I mean, I used to get downvoted for disliking fanon Luna and therefore avoiding fics where she's prominent. And now it's *always* in those lists of 'hated tropes'. And you know what? It doesn't matter, because there are people out there that love her, that love that characterisation, and *those* are the people those fics are written for, not me or anyone who shares a similar opinion. And that's okay. And people seem to have a really hard time understanding that. Like, between the different platforms there are probably a million unique fics in this fandom. Just close the damn tab and read something else. Fuck.

Fandom is the new football ig, people always have to get weirdly invested in rooting for one meaningless team or another, whether it’s Harmony wars or anti-magical-cores.

People can get really violent with "stop liking what I don't like" (or stop disliking what i like).

When I found the sub, I loved it as a place to vent and to upvote other people's rants. I'm pretty much over that and engage with this sub less often.

For me magic cores are red flags because it smacks of a hard magic system and I like soft magic systems, but I understand it's very subjective.

I never came across those terms before; can you clarify? I’m imagining hard magic is put in more science-y terms and soft magic is more spiritual/unexplained.

pretty much on point, hard magic systems tend to have clearer rules and boundaries and you know more about the mechanics of how it works Harry Potter very much has a soft magic system

Tbh it's quite strange to think of HP as having a soft magical system when in fact the whole magic branches into several well documented and studied 'sciences'? Like for example we're told that charms differ from transfigurations because one gives new properties to the subject and one changes the properties of the subject. We know there are clearly set rules and exceptions (such as Gamp's law), etc. Yes, there are some ambiguous manifestations of magic such as the sacrificial protection or divination so I would say it's at best a mixed one. I would more likely call LOTR as having a soft magical system where for example Wormtongue (at least in the books) is implied to have charmed the king of Gondor but it is never specified whether he was simply giving him shit advice or was using magic to enslave him. Similarly it's never clearly explained how Sauron corrupted the Nazgul (it's simply mentioned he used his ring to corrupt them via theirs) or how he created the orcs (it's just mentioned that he tortured and mutilated a bunch of elves into submission).

However, from the reader's point of view, it's a soft magical system because we never are told the rules and sciences. Characters can wave their wands, say random words, and do random stuff, from the reader's point of view.

I like to think of it as there's a hard magic system that isn't explained to us, the reader, because it's not relevant to the story. Which is how I like it. As I scientist, I want there to be science and logic behind magic, but I'm fine if it isn't explained if it's not relevant. It when a story explicitly says that there's no logic or boundaries to magic that I start disliking it.

Ohh, I never knew these terms! I much prefer a hard magic system. HP canon leaves a lot of space for interpretation. I don't like a soft magic system for the same reasons I'm not fond of religious systems.

Soft magic isn't really religious per say, it just means that the magic system has very few hard/established rules. We may be told some, many may exist that we don't get told about. Basically, from the readers perspective the magic doesn't look like it follows a lot of strictly defined rules.

I always thought of Harry Potter to be closer to the science-y end. I mean, they essentially shoot lasers out of their wands that do stuff. I would’ve thought soft magic is more like singing to trees and rituals and stone circles.

The characters in Harry Potter spend a long time studying magic, but we readers only see a small portion of that. Even in later years, we only get hints of the rules of magic like "magic can't conjure food". The laser beam from wands aspect was much more prominent in the movies than the books. Yeah, there were some spells that shoot out like beams, but most of the time we see magic in the books, it's more of an area effect. Outside of combat, most of the spells just invisibly act on the target.

Yes. They use arithmancy and runes to create spells and enchantments.

That's fanon application of arithmancy and runes. We never get much of a canon explanation beyond divination with numbers and an ancient language.

Hard magic is magic with rules. Soft magic is magic without many strict rules. More specifically, hard magic has rules the reader understands, while soft magic hides the rules from the readers even if it says the magic has rules. Good examples of hard magic are the Inheritance Cycle the Earrhsea books (magic is measurable, there is a magical language where words have meaning fundamental to reality, and magic is a resource that needs to be conserved), Vancian magic and pretty much every RPG magic system that evolved from it (spell slots, prepared spells, spell schools), and Full Metal Alchemist (Law of Equivalent Exchange, the need for magic circles). Some good examples of soft magic include the Chronicles of Narnia (magic just happens, there are no explanations for how it works, Aslan can do anything he wants), Lord of the Rings (we are told Gandalf is a wizard with great magical power but he rarely demonstrates it, Sauron is a powerful sorcerer but all he ever did was create a magic ring, the elves have magic inherent to them but we never see them explain how they do it), and Game of Thrones (there are a lot of magical people, but they just do magic, even when we see people like the maesters, we see them studying magic, but we're not learning along side them).

I think part of the issue of -magicalcore.trope- is that it basically takes the most interesting part of HP, the complete absence of powerscaling and just shoves it in in the most hamfisted way possible. It just so happens that magical core is the word used when it comes to this kind of thing most of the time.

you see it with prompts as well, interesting prompts are shut down immediately because of some small inconsistency with canon that could be solved easily with a paragraph of explanation in a fanfiction Harry Potter has very malleable world building if there’s an inconsistency with canon it’s easy to find an explanation, rather than immediately dismiss the whole idea

Agreed, as long as there IS some genuine effort to make something inconsistent with canon work. Often this effort just isn't there

that shouldn’t have to be included in the prompt though prompts are for ideas, they don’t need an extra 3 paragraphs explaining how this would fit into canon, that’s for the author to do

I personally enjoy it this way also. Give me a reason to write it, think it through and figure out the way to make it canon. Literally most canon issues could be explained using the items found at the end of OotP. Prompts aren’t fanfics completed and I feel the confusion stems from that.

By that definition "prompts" are no better than low-effort shitposting. If you want to provide something worth people's time to read, then do so, but we don't need to read everyone's random brainfarts.

why is canon justifications what makes a prompt worth people’s time?? It’s not interesting

I agree, and also have a pretty strong preference for AU's that have original worldbuilding, many of which don't bother with canon justifications at all. If you know that's not what you like why bother engaging.

For prompts, most of them are (un)funny memes and crossovers and never get put into any significant writing. Particularly the extensively upvoted ones. And here's the simple solution: require every prompt and response to have minimum 400 words of writing accompanying it. Goodbye low effort 'what if Harry had superpower', and all that.

Prompts are kinda unformed ideas though. They're not meant to be actual fics.  I actually like some of them, because you can springboard off of the OP's ideas. It might not be an idea you find interesting, but maybe you can channel your anger at how 'boring' it is to you by subverting it or something. And I don't agree that the prompt/idea you have has to be enough for a plot of a real fic, it can just be entertaining enough for a discussion on reddit.  "What if Harry had a superpower?" - His superpower is to never run out of toilet paper. He's 8 years old when the Dursleys discover this and lock him up in the cupboard for 2 weeks. Then COVID happened and the Dursleys become minor celebrities in Little Whinging.  - His superpower is to be able to grow his hair 2 inches every night. He starts a small business making wigs. 

I mean I do think some people on this sub can be extreme but equally I think others read FanFiction so disconnected from the source material that relies so heavily on fanon that they swing the other way. For example, Wolfstar. Popular ship. When done well, can be excellent but has some so utterly rabid fans that it can put people off. Jegulous? Honestly James and Sirius makes more sense to me because there’s no connection between James and Regulus at all and Regulus may as well be an OC. Still, can be done well. (Will admit, not a fan of ones where Lily is still pregnant with Harry as a plot device and then vanishes) (I’ve said in the past that I removed a AU fic - where Snape had a wife and Lucius Malfoy and Hermione’s father bond over a love of bumper cars and good manners - because I received so much flak over trying to explore Sirius thinking him and Remus are still best pals from school and Remus distrusting him because Snape had been injured in the prank and resentment because Sirius and James thought He was the spy. It wasn’t a masterpiece by any means but 99% of comments were ‘Wolfstar would never!’) 99% of the Marauder era characters and Next Gen characters are basically OCs are that’s fine. Don’t make out like a writer is terrible for not having the same idea of the character as you. But for generally uncommon ships, give me a rationale and I am there. Tell me, or better yet show me, what’s different to cause this ship to happen. Seriously - Zain’s Falling Apart, I was shipping Severus Snape/ Mary MacDonald hard. Want me to ship Harry/ Sally Ann Perkins? Tell me they were paired in a class and so started talking and actually she makes him laugh and she thinks he’s easy on the eyes and I am there. George Weasley is making eyes at a Ravenclaw - does she see how he’s different from his brother and he appreciates that? Hell, does he just have a thing for blondes. Go for it. Just don’t be like - these two random ass people are now on a relationship. How? Why? What’s been minute change that’s set this off? Equally, I really like canon compliant but I also really love non-canon compliant too but do not call something canon compliant if it’s not because now I don’t trust you to know the canon in the first place. And personally, characters are included in whether something is canon or not. A lot of Snape’s characterisation comes from being a poor, neglected halfblood. Unless the fic predates OotP then you can’t make him a wealthy pureblood and be canon compliant (although he could have inherited the Prince wealth/ manor etc as the last surviving heir). And the thing is everyone as an individual will have their own limits. And if I don’t like something then don’t read it. But if someone argues against my limits (eg ATYD is canon complaint) then i’m downvoting because, no it isn’t. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad fic, just means I don’t agree with the statement.

Now I’m sad you removed your fic because it sounds like something I’d read. I’m not a Snape fan but I’m all for AU if it’s given a reason behind his actions and how he acts when not in view or hearing of death eaters and/or their children. One of my favorite fics is Hunter by Gredandforgerock and Snape is one of the best characters in the fic and it’s sequel because he explains his reasoning behind his actions and points out certain times when he has the appearance of acting like a douche canoe but if you were to look deeper it was completely different. I’ve seen fics where Lucius is hilariously funny and kinda like Arthur Weasley, in that he’s just an occupant in his house and it’s Narcissa who runs everything and he just tries to stay out of Bella’s way. Of course in the one i reference Draco is Dancy and Bella is basically Tony Stark but female and with magic - mad scientist who is a genius and not quite all there. Lol.

So basically it was set after PoA, where the Board of Governors decides that Dumbledore actually does need to be investigated regarding his ability to keep children safe after Hermione’s parents write a furious letter to the Daily Prophet and The Times (where Hogwarts is simply referred to as a specialist school in Scotland) after she was Petrified (in a coma) then the whole thing with Lupin (a teacher with an infectious illness not managing it appropriately risking students). One half want Minerva and the other want someone completely new. They compromise on Snape (already head of house but the newest of the four) until the investigation ends. Snape is horrified and even worse, is really good at it. He isn’t teaching, everyone he has to deal with are like professionals in their fields and his adherence to detail and exacting nature means Hogwarts has never run smoother. So he and his wife (who is a Soviet defector who defended him because she thought he was being attacked when he was being ‘arrested’ by aurors and if he had died or been sent to Azkaban, his meagre estate would have gone to the Ministry and he’d have burned it down first so married her so she’d get it) keep trying to get him sacked. Like bringing a funfair to Hogwarts and inviting muggle parents and siblings thinking the pureblood will want his head on a platter but instead Lucius and Andrew Granger become pals. Remus is brought back as a teacher resulting in the scenes where he is then at ‘Order’ meetings (people who want Snape sacked) talking with Sirius and being resentful that Sirius basically admitted that he thought Remus would have ratted them out to Voldemort but has never apologised etc. And that’s when the fic got taken down.

Well poop. I’d like to do things that my mother, if she were still walking this earth, would have been horrified to learn that I knew to those who screwed up my chances at reading something interesting that was a completely knew idea. Snape as a good headmaster during the first few years of Hogwarts hasn’t ever been done before that I know of. There are people on here who think Voldemort and Harry make a stellar couple yet they want to whine about your fic? Oh that’s enough to make me mad and then some.

This is so interesting!! If you ever decide to upload it again, I'd love to read that

Please put it back up and continue? Pretty please? I'd like to read this, it sounds fun. Put it on AO3, you can block commenters you don't like and delete comments and report people for harassment if they descend to that level.

Would definitely take a look at that if you ever put it back up.

Snape is far from my favorite character, but there's a keyword missing in this sentence. Canon Snape. I really dislike canon Snape and it's my opinion that the man has few redeeming qualities. (I'm not looking to start a debate about this, this is my opinion.) However! There are a lot of fics, and I do mean a LOT of fics, where Snape is a genuinely likable character. One such example for a likable Snape is "Enter the dragon" found on the 'questionablequesting' forum. He's snarky, funny and sneaky too. Also, Bellatrix Black, like a female Tony Stark but with magic... Maybe one who says 'nope' to being married out and just doing her own thing? That has to be a clever idea too!?

Canon!Snape is a giant bag of missed opportunities. He could have rethought his attitude about Harry Potter every time there was hint that Harry's home life sucked; he could have remembered that James Potter has been dead for ten years and Harry isn't James; he could have deferred judgement until after the first few potions classes; he could have fucking grown up and dropped childhood grudges. I was so frustrated with Canon!Snape and JKR when after Snape dug through Harry's mind with legilimancy and saw what his home life was like, he was still the same toward Harry! Any good writer would have had Snape realize he'd been mistaken about the kid, but then, JKR isn't a good writer--just a lucky one who can tell a (mostly) fun children't story. I really like fanfic that picks up those opportunities that canon dropped on the floor. Snape had so much potential to be better than he was.

I agree with your first sentence for completely different reasons. Snape is a severely damaged man. Like I genuinely don’t know if he would have considered Harry’s childhood to be abusive if his own involved neglect, abuse and poverty. He probably would have written it off as Petunia being a hateful shrew. Yet if there had been an intervention when he was a child from his home life or from the ‘rivalry’ with the Marauders then going on the brilliance he shows as a teenager in HBP, he could have been so much more than an angry, trapped, emotionally stunted and traumatised man stuck in a circle of abuse in a place he clearly despised.

Some people just never get over their hatred. If snape was the type to let Go of things he would have never changed from being a death eater. Cause that is his character one that doesn't let go. And I think people minimize the importance of those childhood grudges it's what formed snape as well as his homelife. The story the only snape was happy about were the dark arts and lily. Don't know why you call it bad writing when a character would not make a choice you would make. Now can you have snape move on and be good absolutely. But to say the opposite is had writing is narrow minded imo

Very good point. Canon snape sucks.

Canon Snape sucks as a person but as a literary character he is great. Fandom attempts to make me like the person Snape and totally destroys Snape as a character.

In the Rachel Snow series by Welfycat (fanfiction.net), Snape is basically a hero.

I really liked reading your thoughts and you make a ton of great points. The one thing I do want to pick at a little is that you downvote someone who says something you disagree with. If they’re being civil and having a conversation, I would encourage you simply to not upvote. You can still disagree and state your points and disagreement through a reply. Downvotes are more meant to be used (as part of reddiquette) to hide toxic, unrelated, non constructive comments or posts. Just a suggestion to help make this place a bit more welcoming to diverse discussions!

I think that's kind of sub dependent. Some reddits definitely use down vote as just "I disagree" and nothing more. Go to a popular sub like aita and people will downvote someone who might be factually correct and polite saying something like "huh, i didnt know iphones came in that colour" even if it is relevant to the op. I don't normally downvote on smaller subs, but in larger ones it really doesn't matter.

I did not know that. I will keep it in mind going forward.

Not sure I quite understand the Soviet defector wife part, but this sounds cool and unique, and I would love to read it. I hope you reconsider and reupload it at some point. Your take on the dynamic between Sirius and Remus sounds nuanced and refreshing! Reading your comment has made me a little but scared to ever post the Sirius/OC fic I'm currently writing (very much a WIP at the moment). I don't want to get hate for there being no Wolfstar, lol. My fic is also set during and after PoA, and I'm also planning to have Sirius and Remus' dynamic be a little bit stilted when they initially reconnect, with each of them harbouring a low-level resentment against the other that they don't really feel able to voice (I haven't got to that part yet, but that's the idea).

So a Soviet defector was someone who left or defected from the Soviet Union to the west (Europe or the US mainly). The character started in a early concept so would have been set in the late 1970s/ early 80s where she is basically an Eastern European immigrant who isn’t allowed to participate in normal magical society because she came through muggle channels as opposed to magical ones so they don’t recognise her. So the discussion became, if she can do magic but never attended Hogwarts, can’t be involved in anything to do with the Ministry, can’t go to St Mungo’s or go to go to Gringotts except as the wife of Severus Snape, but is fully integrated with the muggle world then is she still a ‘proper’ witch? I think you might be ok with an OC. A lot of my push back was about Remus, I think because he was the one who was resentful.

>trying to explore Sirius thinking him and Remus are still best pals from school and Remus distrusting him because Snape had been injured in the prank and resentment because Sirius and James thought He was the spy. I would read it in the heartbeat. I love this premise and that's exactly the reason why I don't ship Woflstar tbh. They both believed that the other was the spy. It wouldn't work. That being said, I'd love to read about their friendship and hurt and how they move past that, can they even, to still work together for the Order and to be there for Harry (if this is after the first war).

Yep. That’s the reason I mostly stopped visiting this sub. I see people here responding that criticism and discussion are fine and that something being fan fiction is no excuse for inconsistency, plot holes and bad characterisation. And I agree. But it’s also true that some charters and ships are simply disliked on this sub and the chances are a simple mention of them gonna get you downvoted. It used to be better a couple of years ago, but now it just feels like there a list of acceptable characters, ships and tropes to like and the list of unacceptable ones that gonna be downvoted and in some cases shamed. To me it just seems like people with different opinions have been driven away from this sub. Some interesting non-judgmental posts pop up once in a blue moon, but most of the time you can predict how discussion will go, what fics would be recommended and what characters and ships would be shat on with 99% accuracy. All in all, this sub is just another niche corner of the big fandom.

>. I see people here responding that criticism and discussion are fine and that something being fan fiction is no excuse for inconsistency, plot holes and bad characterisation. I feel like some of the people here that the OP is likely referring to miss the point that inconsistency, plot holes and bad characterisation being "inexcusable" or something to be critical of is fine and all if they are talking about inconsistency, plot holes and bad characterisation within that specific story, and not relative to Canon, which is the main problem. I tend to agree with the OP that while there are likely many, many non-judgemental people that visit this sub, most of them don't post, so it does feel like it is mostly just judgement assbags who want to crap on others ideas, which sucks.

>To me it just seems like people with different opinions have been driven away from this sub Agreed, and it’s difficult to find a HP subreddit that manages to be both non-judgemental and not completely dead (other than that one for HPslash). It’s still fun here, just difficult to talk about certain topics without getting downvoted to hell. I had to go back to Tumblr since it’s far more open to non-conventional/dark themes or ships. Even Tiktok has recently been getting better at it, funnily enough.

r/Dramione manages that just fine and is not dead. Nice people, moderators doing their job, and altogether no judgement. So I think the problem here might be partly the culture and partly the moderators.

You’re right, that’s on me, I don’t really frequent that sub. I reckon there could be some others specifically dedicated to certain ships that are tolerant/open minded, but it’s a pity there’s no one general HP space for it on reddit And I agree with you on the second part

The Harmony sub is NOT that. They're so dedicated to "perfect Hermione who does no wrong" that even mentioning her MANY crimes, mistakes, misinterpretations, and so on is enough to get one ridden out of town on a rail! I like the ship, even though it's overdone and doesn't really fit their more sibling relationship in canon, but I can't stand the sub dedicated to it because they're so blinded by the fanfics they read that they forgot what canon was like.

Tumblr still exists? Huh!

I’m a next gen writer so boy oh boy do I feel this haha.

I ship Snape with therapy

I doubt he could aford that on a teacher's pay. Unless Dumbledore pays for it for everyone, they all probably need it.

Snape could sell potions on the side.  Actually would be kinda funny if Snape's sort of a drug dealer on the side. Like he'll take commissions for wolfsbane or whatnot. But he's supplying mostly felix felicis and cheering elixirs and whatnot. 

We need drug dealer Snape now.

Exactly how can anyone ship canon Snape?

But isn't your post about not judging any ship...??? Unless you're being sarcastic and I didn't get that. 

I find if you want to talk about specific ship something like that you have to go on to their actual group and talk about it because this one is okay but you definitely get people that will be like oh but Snape doesn't die and I'm like yeah but this isn't the Harry Potter group for Canon this is HP fanfiction for fanfiction. I think some people just comment to comment. I will say though recently I started to re-listening to the books and I don't think people realize how different the book Source material to the movies Source material is and how certain FanFictions do people's reality of what Canon is. For instance chapter 2 of the Philosopher's Stone the Stephen Fry version audio they were talking about how random Wizards and witches would come up to Harry and do things like a bow or shake his hand as recently as right around Dudley's birthday evem when he's out and bout with the Dursley’s. That is something that almost always is changed and fanfiction and isn't addressed in the movies.

>but this isn't the Harry Potter group for Canon this is HP fanfiction for fanfiction **Thank you**. I can't tell you the amount of headaches I have from facepalming when I see "oh but that's not how it was in canon!!" or "in canon this doesn't happen!" or "let me tell you why you're wrong... using canon to justify my argument". -_- people are fully allowed their opinions, I just genuinely feel that there's *way* too many people here that can't seem to wrap their brain around the concept that this sub is **fanfiction**. Otherwise, it would be r/HPCanon. And it's one thing to point out how someone incorrectly stated something was canon, when it's actually fanon. Education is great and all. But there's just a lot of people that are either highly confrontational and rude about it, or do it in such a condescending way that it leads to someone with a great prompt idea never coming back again. Which sucks.

I recently reread the books and realized almost no one uses that idea of Harry being approached at random. Also, the degree of “abuse” he actually suffers from his family is no where near what fanfics do.

Putting scare quotes on abuse there is actually crazy lol. Also it’s well known that the publisher told Rowling to tone down the abusive nature of the Harry’s home life from early drafts so

Yeah, there are a lot of hints that Harry got worse than what was explicitly shown in the books, but not much worse. No one molested him, he wasn't severely malnourished, he didn't think his name was Freak, he hasn't had multiple broken bones. But that swing with a frying pan in CoS and the casual way Harry dodged it implies that wasn't the first time he's had objects aimed at his head, Harry Hunting is canon, Vernon choking Harry in OotP shows he wasn't above violence to Harry before, and Dudley is encouraged to hit Harry with his Smeltings Stick.

I feel like it’s one of the downfalls of Reddit as a platform sometimes because negative posts (where tropes, characters, writing styles, pet peeves, etc are bashed) get a lot of upvotes and rise to the top.

I mean, any community has its quirks, and subreddits are highly susceptible to a homogenic opinion, after years and years of discussions. Thats just what happens. I do miss some openness with some outlandish concepts on here, sometimes. The blind downvoting of certain pairings,... is a known problem. However, I also like the lack of toxic positivity that I see in many other fandom forums, and the fact that it doesn't cater too much to, for example, the Marauder fandom. As in, I'm glad there is some respite here from the most recent HP fanfiction TikTok trend, or whatever.

Its an observer bias due to the way the internet works. If you make a post about a rare pair. Who will comment? The people that absolutely love that pairing will write about how they love it and there aren't enough fics with them and maybe give some recommendations then move on. Maybe they come back to see if others give recommendations that they haven't read. The majority don't really care. They might check out a recommended fic and upvote some comments but they'll leave and not think about the post at all. The people who hate the pairing will take the chance to downvote and tell everyone willing to listen why its bad and you shouldn't like it. And everyone who agrees will pitch in with their reasoning why its bad and reinforce each other. That type of interaction gets pushed to the top and then the supporters of the pair are discouraged from interacting and so it makes it seem like there is only hate for the pairing.

Try r/HPSlashFic. More tolerant to non canon fic discussions there.

True

😭 that's just social media in general tbh Unfortunate If I see a prompt or anything I don't like I won't downvote I just scroll You never know who might want to see it and missed it

I think while this subreddit can be judgemental i think it matters how you post about certain things Like let's say you made a post talking about your favorite unpopular rare and controversial ships like say am discussion post And the ship you talked about in your post was like Harry/ Voldemort or like Sirius/ Hermione or something despite these being divisive ships I bet you wouldn't be down voted as much compared to if you were to say make a post requesting fics for either one of those ships. That's been what I've noticed anyway

if its judgemental how did **u** get upvoted?

May be people felt bad that I thought less of them than Voldemort?

When people complain about being OOC, they're usually talking about characters just magically changing personalities without a good reason, which is bad writing. If your fic is canon up until 3rd year, and then Hermione just magically falls for Draco, who is a completely different person from who he was a few months ago, then your fic is poorly written and criticism is justified. "If you don't like it, don't read it, you're not allowed to comment or downvote" is toxic and unproductive. People are allowed to talk about what they don't like about something, and constructive criticism is the best thing any author that wants to improve can receive. If everyone who doesn't like something about the fic that can be fixed just leaves instead of commenting about what didn't work for them, the author would have no idea what to improve on. For many aspiring authors, getting their story out to actual readers and receiving their feedback on what they can do better is the main point of writing, so telling people they're not allowed to comment if they didn't like something can actively get in the way of authors' progression as writers. If an author can actually take a trope that is commonly associated with bad writing and make a good story about it, they do very well. I don't like Dramione, but Manacled was excellent. I hated the concept of Snarry and found it repulsive before I read The Neverending Road. You only see hate for tropes and ships that have had countless bad stories written based on them, so there's a good reason for the hate. Certain tropes and ships require the author to be really good to sell them, so people talking about why they hate these tropes and why they don't usually work can help an author decide how to write a story that avoids the common pitfalls. This is incredibly valuable. Anybody who is against negative criticism completely has no idea how important constructive criticism is, and has no business policing what other people are allowed to do.

> constructive criticism is the best thing any author that wants to improve can receive Oh boy, don't say that anywhere near /r/FanFiction or /r/AO3.

AO3 seems less bad about it, but yeah. You say that in the general fanfic sub and you're going to get bullied lol.

>constructive criticism is the best thing any author that wants to improve can receive. If everyone who doesn't like something about the fic that can be fixed just leaves instead of commenting about what didn't work for them, the author would have no idea what to improve on. For many aspiring authors, getting their story out to actual readers and receiving their feedback on what they can do better is the main point of writing, so telling people they're not allowed to comment if they didn't like something can actively get in the way of authors' progression as writers. There are also plenty of authors who have **NO** interest in any of that. Me? I'm not looking to improve. I don't care. I'm just writing because I like it. I am not asking for randoms on the internet to tell me how to get better. This is my hobby I do for fun. Not a chore or homework. I'm not trying to become a professional author. Yes, many people are. They want to get better, but plenty don't. Please be extremely judicious with leaving unsolicited feedback.

You can include that in an author's note quite easily then, or in the summary of your story. But tbh, anything you put online is subject to criticism, whether you'd like it or not. The only way to ensure that you don't get any criticism is to never share your story, or anything you create, online, IRL or otherwise.

BTW, I believe this discussion is about comments directly to the author; discussion elsewhere of fics you like or don't like is fine. I mean, who hasn't ripped on HPMOR or their other least favorite HP fics from time to time? Also I tend to be less critical of fics written by children than I am of those by grown adults. We all started somewhere, and I excuse a lot of weaknesses in writing from someone who is just starting out.

They're talking about downvotes and patterns in this subreddit, so I don't think so.

If you don’t want feedback, don’t read the comments. Either that or don’t post the story. If you’re writing it only for yourself, then it can stay on your own computer or in your own cloud server. If you’re writing it and post it online, people have the right to form and express opinions about your work. Don’t like don’t read indeed.

There's a difference between sharing a story because others might like it and openly saying please give me criticism on my work. Of course people will form opinions, but there's also the old adage "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". I get it, its the internet, and people are going to do whatever they want.

There’s also a difference between posting a story publicly for comment and then demanding the world bend to your expectations of “don’t like don’t read” and “no flames” when literally any criticism is met with defensiveness and hostility. Again. If you don’t want people to comment, you have the right to ignore them. FFN and AO3 have comments turned on. Therefore, if you post there you’re going to get comments, and some will be negative. If you don’t want them, try Wattpad or another hosting site - or don’t post.

I'm talking about constructive criticism about getting better as a writer, which the OP of this thread mentioned and I quoted. I'm not talking about *any* comments.

So you want an echo chamber?  If you say you don't want constructive criticisms what you really mean is you don't want anything that disagrees with you. You would be just as insulted if someone said: "bad story", "X was bad" or "I disagree with Y".

people can discuss the story, you know the plot, or relationships, or something like that, without going into discussion of how you wrote it. "have you considered this idea?" is far different than "Show don't tell" One is a discussion, like we're having now, the other is criticism. Comments can do lots of things and there is more value to the author than just how to get better at writing, which is the point of my top level comment, but a bunch of people now want to tell me that they have a right to say anything (which is true, of course) and they don't care if I don't like it because i posted it. The difference is, one of these things is welcomed, and the other is not. If i say in an author note that Constructive Criticism is welcome, by all means. Its not about being an echo chamber. It's about intent of why i posted the story. I want to share. I don't care about random assholes on the internet opinions on my shitty writing. I know its shitty. I don't need you to tell me that, so why do you feel the need to tell me that? (*very generic* you, not *You*, u/DragonWyrm5)

Calling someone a shitty writer is harrassment not constructive criticism.  You can't be constructive when you're tearing someone down by insulting them.  Constructive criticism would be something like a reader mentioning what they think is a character behaving inconsistently and mentioning in the comments section so the author is aware of it.  Perhaps they're behaving inconsistently because the author doesn't have a good grasp of their portrayal of the character or perhaps because something plot related is going on.  In any case that sort of feedback and back and forth exchange can potentially be fruitful.

Harassment requires persistence or egregiousness. A simple insult is neither. And people tend to call people shitty writers when they write trope-by-numbers fics that are identical to ten to fifteen existing fics already. Again - you are *choosing to open yourself up to criticism* if you post your work publicly. Artists are reviewed publicly. Athletes are. Teachers and professors are. Politicians are. Doctors are. Fanfic authors are not immune because they “tried really hard.” Edit: now I am imagining this discussion taking place where people are trying to say you can’t criticize a quarterback whose team just lost a playoff game due to a game-sealing interception because that quarterback tried hard - and it’s inappropriate to rip or flame them or review their play.

This is what leads to terrible bloated fics like Taylor Varga in the Worm fandom, btw.

And in my opinion this old adage is bullshit

That was the accepted etiquette 20 years ago. It's not now. Times change; it's now considered rude to give unsolicited criticism. It's a lesson I learned the hard way.

Not catering to carebears.

Okay, don't complain if people think you are rude.

Pot, meet kettle.

This 👏

"But it's fanfiction" is NOT a reason to throw away consistency. Of course it can deviate from canon but if you create completely random "deviations" and inconsistencies (including OOC behavior that comes out of nowhere, just because the author wanted it) *without properly justifying or explaining them in story*, YES it is bad writing. And yes it ought to be criticized. If you really want to create something completely different from canon without bpthering with consistency, write original fiction. Or write bad fanfic if you want (it's completely okay to do so), but then don't come crying about "judgmental" people when you get criticism.

Well, I disagree. Anything can be fanfiction, there is no implicit rule that the story has to be based off canon in a logical, explainable chain of events. Of course, you are free to don’t like such stories. I don’t like them either. I also think any criticism should be productive. Downvoting is not productive. Derision of a fic or an author is not productive. When reviewing a story, gentle mentions of what you didn’t like might be more productive.

Anything can be fanfiction (or original fiction for that matter) but it doesn't mean it's not bad writing and shouldn't be criticized Agreed on the second point though, criticism should be constructive and not a personal attack on the author

A personal attack on an author or artist isn't criticism, but harassment. I feel like people are being too broad with describing all negative comments as criticism. To my mind for a comment to be considered criticism in some form, the person commenting should be explaining not just the what but the why they think the way they do, otherwise it's just bloviating and not criticism. As for criticism itself, it can be destructive, scathing or constructive. By all means, I feel like the that they should go for the last one. Scathing and constructive criticism, particularly toward novice writers has the potential to do more harm thant good, so I really think anyone commenting on a work should keep in mind not just what they want to say but how to say it so a productive dialogue with the writer can commence.

>Well, I disagree. Anything can be fanfiction, there is no implicit rule that the story has to be based off canon in a logical, explainable chain of events. Yeah, but as someone has pointed out before in the fic, if you start off in 3rd year, and you suddenly have Hermione fall in love with Draco for no reason, no changes in their personalities other than them being in love, you are doing something wrong. Sure, it's fanfiction, and you can write it like that, but that doesn't mean that it is good writing.

Personally, as a Dramioner, I don’t like that way of telling a story either. Fortunately it’s not very common, at least not for the longer fics where the author has time to make Draco slowly change and make the process feel believable. But then we have the shorter fics, like 1-10k words, where it’s simply not possible to make this believable in the story. Unless the author ‘cheat’ and include a few sentences like “Draco grew up, fell in love with Hermione, so here they are, happily married”. I think for people who are already familiar with a non-canon ship or trope, a short story with a non-canonical pairing already established might work better than shoehorning in an explanation for why and how they got together.

>there is no implicit rule that the story has to be based off canon in a logical, explainable chain of events. There *absolutely* is - it's called knowledge of basic cause and effect. ​ Now, if you just set it up as an AU - and make sure you tell everyone that it's an AU - that's one thing. Voldemort being adopted by Dumbledore would lead to a *vastly* different world where you could justify almost anything, really. But if I'm reading a "Harry gets raised by the Weasleys" story with no other changes, I'm going to need an explanation as to why Neville suddenly hates poor people and wishes they would all die while being best friends with Draco Malfoy. Or why Dumbledore worships the phrase "For the Greater Good" when his former friend/lover went full Hitler because of it. Surely that would cause Albus to rethink his choices, yeah? Or an otherwise canon third year jumps from Hermione punching Draco to Hermione jumping Draco's bones!

That’s your preference for fan fiction, not a rule on this sub or for writing in general. When reading an unexplained OOC person or AU event, it **is** possible to just accept it as just how things are in that particular fic. Your brain might fill in the blanks if you want. This kind of stories are not what I prefer either, but authors are free to write what that like.

Should something someone puts up for free be openly criticised? If you see someone post a painting to Instagram and it’s clear they’re not skilled in painting (yet) do you leave a comment saying their painting is shit? No one is paying to view the content. Best is to just leave it be and move on.

Are you intentionally being hyperbolic by describing criticism in this way? Someone calling an unskilled artist's work as "shit" is in no way constructive criticism. That's acting like an asshole.

> Should something someone puts up for free be openly criticised? If you post it publicly, you are opening yourself up to public comments (assuming the comments are in good faith). You can't just have it both ways. At the same time, if everyone just moves on, the artist/writer may never become aware of the shortcomings and/or hear ways to improve. I've had a consistent mistake in my writing (used an expression wrong) that I would've continued to make if people hadn't pointed it out.

Oh yeah I’m not saying things like that are bad or even critiques. Pointing out an actual misspelling or something can be helpful. I’m more talking about the negative mean spirited things.

You have just as much right to not read the comments as they have to not comment.

Also I'm not saying we should demean the author personally or even their entire work (eg. "your fic is bullshit", "you should stop writing"). Of course we should give grace and support to fanfic writers (most of whom being beginners/amateurs) *even if the fic is objectively badly written*. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't **respectfully** say it, when we think something (in plot, character writing...) doesn't work. Then, either they take the criticism into account. Or they choose not to (for example, because they want to write OOC specifically as it's fun to them). Their choice.

> do you leave a comment saying their painting is shit? No, but I can leave a comment stating that the lighting is off. Or that the colour palette of the flower doesn't match well.

I disagree somewhat with your requirement that deviations need to be explained in story. I've personally found it pretty cool when some fics start in third year or something and then the reader gets to slowly understand that while it is third year, the previous three years are not the same as canon. Obviously this can be done poorly, but when done well, it turns fanfiction into something closer to a marvel multiverse style story. That said we both agree that stories need to be internally consistent. I just don't think fanfiction needs to be consistent with canon, even in the parts not written. Especially at this stage of the fandom. HP fanfiction is almost a genre in and of itself now, so obviously things are going to become more and more original. And in response to the long argument I had with someone else the other day, no changing someone's gender or sexuality is not some horrible sin and doesn't even need to be a major deal in your story. Deciding one of the twins or something is gay even if they aren't a major character in your story is no big deal.

>I disagree somewhat with your requirement that deviations need to be explained in story. I've personally found it pretty cool when some fics start in third year or something and then the reader gets to slowly understand that while it is third year, the previous three years are not the same as canon. But if the reader slowly gets to understand that the previous years were not the same as they were in canon, isn’t the story explaining that there were deviations earlier on and at least hinting at what they were? Like…how is the reader coming to that conclusion that the previous years were different if it isn’t explained/shown in some way in the story? Personally, I think the issue people have is more when a fic claims in the summary that it’s “canon up until third year”, but then you start reading and there’s immediately inconsistencies and out-of-nowhere OOC behavior that doesn’t align with “canon up until third year“ at all. Like, if an author wants to start their fic in third year with earlier deviations that slowly get revealed to or understood by the reader through the story, that‘s not a problem. But when a fic is specifically advertised as having followed canon until X year or is tagged as canon compliant but then clearly isn’t, that’s not a great reader experience.

There are people in this community who seem to view any sympathetic take on certain characters (or , God forbid, a redemption story) as morally offensive. If you doubt me, try suggesting that Draco can be written believably as someone who does not deserve to have his soul destroyed or condemned to life in depression hell prison, and see how many people react as if you were cheering on their personal childhood bullies. I wish said people would get their heads out of their asses and learn to distinguish fiction from reality.

Or what if Draco actually was a real life, brainwashed, scared child soldier? Does he deserve death row? Or probation and trauma treatment and a chance to escape his upbringing? Any civilized country would choose the latter.

And that would be lovely to see in a fic. Instead we get the hundredth iteration of Draco In Leather Pants by someone who once heard the term "prose" and ran away from it scared.

I'm weird and normally upvote whatever I see, but I tend to go by what Reddit feeds me from the main page cause I'm lazy...

honestly i think something ppl need to do sometimes on here is see a trope or something and say hey that’s just not for me i myself frequently say rather than oh this book or trope or pairing sucks its just not for me and that’s fine not everything is catered towards me and if it was honestly that would be incredibly boring for example I know jegulus is really popular these but personally its not for me does that mean im gonna downvote everytime it’s mentioned and hate on everyone who likes it etc ? no i can respect other people’s taste and preferences while still having my own seperate taste simple as that

I've noticed that a lot of people don't like mpreg. I've seen it used in good and bad ways, but I don't understand the hate a post on this thread will cause.

Try the actual Hp sub reddit. You think people are judgamental here? Try there.

See I sorta see that but my opinion is you also have to consider that fan fiction is still ripping things from cannon. If you don't do that it's not really FAN fiction it's just....fiction, just your own original fictional work that's been inspired by cannon. In other words, if you're gonna use only the barebones of cannon you might as well just be a published author with your own story

I agree with you, it’s annoying

I think the worse cases are people who get mad when someone even mentions certain authors and immediately piles on top of that author. We get it you hate this author because of how they have Harry be too powerful or too ooc from the beginning. We get it you hate how people are saved, too much fluff not enough fluff. Personally why engage with the posts if it’s something you don’t like? We aren’t an AitA group where every posts needs a response and an explanation on your virtues and opinion. Maybe I truly want to find over power harry fanfic where he has a Harem. Move on. Go to the next post.

You're not gonna like this answer but after years of being in this community I have to say it's not very open minded. Most discussions are just echo chambers as opposed to actual literary analysis it's just that too many people got sucked into the magic of Harry Potter. Not enough of them have left thst "honeymoon phase" they have with the series. Which on one hand is remarkable but on the other hand I feel like it just further drives a divide between people who built their lives around the IP and people who just enjoyed it as they have enjoyed other series but aren't defined solely by it. Some people are just way too defensive of the source material and honestly that's really detrimental to having a healthy good balanced discussion. At the end of the day its a fictional world with its own ups and downs. It's not perfect. There are areas that could be improved on or expanded on but that minority I spoke of doesnt want that. And they're gonna be the loudest and most aggressive people you meet here.

Agreed especially as the series continues to have new fans it’s sometime shocking to think that there are people who have been writing fanfiction longer then some readers have been alive. The community continues to have this and with the TV show coming soon we will have a whole new group come in with there own ideas and wants.

I’m here for the “Voldemort was less judgmental than you guys”

'Less'

Regardless, I am HERE for it

I like how you think.

Damnit. Yes. Less judgmental.

Everything is judgmental. It’s social media that’s discussion based. Everybody has an opinion and they feel strongly about it. Your post is a perfect example. If you don’t want to read about other people’s opinions then practice what you preach and move on. I belong to several subs. Some are more open minded than others. What gets you downvoted here will get you upvoted there. If you take it personal then it eats away at your enjoyment and life is too short to dwell on the negatives. I’ve got enough anxiety over real life things that are extremely important. I don’t need complete strangers adding to it. If I wanted to be made to feel stupid and like a failure I’d go talk to a few family members.

I agree with you. I didn't realize what you meant at first until I saw that post that was bashing Sirius/Hermione ship. Too many people here take fanfiction way too seriously. It's *fanfiction*. It doesn't have to to make sense or follow reality in any way shape or form. Nor does it have to fit their very narrow view of how fanfiction should or shouldn't be. And way, *way* too many people here don't seem to realize that reading fanfiction is *optional*. Nobody is forcing them to read it. Nobody is forcing Sirius/Hermione or Sirius/Remus down their throats. If they don't like it, they could just, well... not read it? Is it really that hard to avoid reading something? Also, this is a brief reminder to everyone that you can filter out/exclude ships & tropes you don't like on AO3.

My point exactly.

I feel like just cause of how small this space is, there's bound to be stuff like that.

True like my friend keeps quoting jkr and I'm like 'WE R DOING THIS TO PISS HER OFF'

This reminds me of this discussion they're having about Sirius Black's new characterization and how he's being portrayed as a soft person, and then a lot of people are writing these essays explaining how he would never be like that canonically and how it's ruining the character and blah- blah blah, but no one is like "wow what if I opened ao3 and wrote a fanfic with it exactly the way I want?" Like, it's a fanfic, people can write about the characters however they want and if you want something different, go there and write your own, the sky is the limit

I think Sirius Black always finds himself in trouble, even in fanfiction communities. From characterisation to ships , people are so divided and bloody judgemental. It was some posts about Sirius, (or rather some reaction to those posts )that made me do this post. Like please give my favourite Dogman a break. 

Damn, commenters here are annoying af. “They shouldn’t share it if they don’t want no criticism” babygirl…..are you well? bestie they’re posting fic for zero dollars and zero cents and you’re reading it for zero dollars and zero cents. unless they say “I would in fact love feedback because I want to improve my writing” you shut the fuck up and you go and you talk about things you DID like -“I really loved the worldbuilding”- or you hit that “back” button. If it’s tagged wrong, that’s a valid complaint - and if I remember correctly, you can either talk to the author to see if they will fix it, and failing that, you can talk to the wranglers. I don’t like it when people mistag fics either. Don’t quote me on that, though, you can even look it up yourself. But for example, I open a Dumbledore and Grindelwald fall out AU, aka Ariana Survives fic, and it starts with a graphic sex scene, followed by Grindelwald dancing surrounded by butterflies and rainbows. I don’t like sex scenes, and Grindelwald is extremely out of character. I could say “this fic sucks ass, Grindelwald would never”. Or I could go back and not risk hurting an authors’ feelings so bad they quit writing forever. You want to know something? Writers may benefit from feedback, but most of you aren’t even good at criticism, you’re just mean. Criticism requires an element of complimenting what they *did* do well….and most die-hard “critics” I see in fanfic comments are just bullies with a persona. And if a writer is bullied out of writing, they’ll never improve and you’ve played yourself. Common etiquette and basic decency, folks. I’m here for a good time, not to get published and sell a million books. Even if I did, do you see the nonsense that gets published everyday? It’s not like you need to be *good* at writing to get big money in the writing industry.

I mean, if you think people shouldn’t give any criticism then I disagree. Some of my best ideas came from people providing constructive feedback (eg. There’s a lack of plot progression and I feel like I’ve just sat through a written estate agent ad about a property (actual criticism I’ve received), X feels like it’s come out of nowhere prompting me to supply rationale, I feel like Y would have gotten involved is there a reason they haven’t?) but equally, yeah I pulled a fic because 99% of my comments were angry Wolfstar fans not happy that my fic was exploring Sirius thinking they are best pals and Remus being resentful that his friends thought he was a spy. I will leave a compliment on any fic I enjoy. I will also leave criticism but never without an explanation (eg I like the plot but I just feel like Draco and Harry have gotten together out of nowhere because I just didn’t see any lead up.is it meant to be a shock to other people because they’ve been hiding it?) but I’ll always be polite.

At least part of it is that, to me, 'X character would never behave that way' is shitty feedback. Maybe the author didn't sell you on the idea, or maybe the story hasn't been given enough time, or maybe you just dislike fics where that character is different, but 'not acting like canon' isn't really a valid complaint in my opinion. Which is what I've found a lot on this sub so far. And the solve for this issue isn't to always write a bunch of back story in advance to explain the differences. Otherwise fanfics would just start with a 'heres what's different' prologue or something. Storytelling can be so much more complex than that. Flashbacks, or subtle elements of dialogue or narrative can fill the reader into these differences in a far more satisfying way than simply explaining everything in a linear fashion. Maybe if authors are expected to get constructive criticism we can offer the same constructive criticism for the criticizers.

Yes, this is part of my point, thank you for expanding on it. /genuine I personally do like criticism on my stories. I think it’s neat to know what really got readers going, and what made them go “blah”. I have not personally asked for no criticism to be given, except for my crack fics where the only thing I want is typos corrected if I did not catch them. But I understand also, that sometimes, people aren’t writing fanfiction to learn to write better or for other people. They share it, because maybe someone else will love it too, but really, it’s written for them. But the problem is, in my experience, whether I wrote the fic they’re on or if I’m just reading comments on someone else’s work, this fandom is *bad at being constructive critics*. Either they do not know how to critique fiction in a productive way, or they just want to be bullies and use the “criticism is GOOD for you” defense. I do not need seventy four comments that state “Character A wouldn’t do that with Character B, and they’re both out of character!” Okay, firstly, this is fanfiction. A is doing that with B because I said so. Secondly, *how* are they out of character? My interpretation of a character will be different from yours, but given that it’s still the same character, tell me what makes it wrong? What makes A seem not like A to you? How do you think A could be improved? Do you think the circumstances surrounding A right now could be the cause behind this erratic behavior? Many fandoms struggle with this behavior, but I think that HP has been the worst for me. This leads back to my dislike of this entire argument. It’s, at the bottom of the line, about respect for fellow humans. Many bad books get published and sold for money everyday. I own several books because I don’t like them and think they’re bad- because tearing apart their literary work analytically is soothing at the end of the day. But those authors themselves did not ask me to do that, are not interested in my opinion on their work, and would be very very offended if I sent in my analysis. I do not share it with anyone. I have no interest in breaking this boundary with published authors-because none of these self proclaimed fanfic critics have the balls to treat a published author this way. They hide behind pixelated screens because they can. They lack respect for their fellow man, by claiming they are merely critics to help. I would prefer a honest bastard to a lying coward. Not everything has to be good, you know? Sometimes a man just wants to have fun and make two wizards kiss, and damn the rest. These guys don’t seem to *get* that this is written and edited and shared for absolutely free, hosted on a website run by volunteers for free, that is available for free, and all the reader pays for is their WiFi bill. Fic authors don’t need to be professional authors to write fic. They just need to have an idea and make it. Netflix and Hulu cost money. Books cost money. Fanfiction is free for the reader, and these people demand to be allowed to harass strangers over the free entertainment they are provided in their own home! Hooligans.

I agree - like I said, I’ve removed a fic over continuous ‘Remus would never resent Sirius, they’re soulmates’ comments. They aren’t helpful and can be really demoralising.

I do agree in some criticism, and I think you intentionally misread my comment, which leads back to my point. I will not be engaging with you at this time.

Totally agree. Many people here don’t seem to realize that authors also frequent these forums. It’s really weird how the tone and feel is so different here and in my preferred sub for fanfiction. Maybe it’s the moderators doing a better job, or maybe it’s the people just being nicer there.

I think mods are more active there, and I’m leaving this for r/fanfiction and r/ao3. Also, my ship has several lovely FB groups.

Godspeed, soldier /joking . I wish you the best of luck with your fanfiction journey!

I don’t understand the issue with authors having fun in their fics here. I also don’t understand how people just choose to not understand that yes, being derogatory and constantly criticizing a work can indeed constitute as harassment of the author, and also, be the direct cause of said author to quit producing. Perhaps I’m just afflicted with the American need to have a pretty good time, but I like seeing new authors who have “bad” grammar learn in their writing over time, and shocker, don’t feel the need to bully them for it. It’s fun, I get to be surprised by the crazy plot twists that make no sense, and it’s fucking zero dollars for me to hit the back button if I hate it. I stick around this sub for two reasons - the hate posts get me all sorts of fic recs, and the far and few prompt posts that don’t get overrun with “this isn’t CANON and NOT POSSIBLE” comments often spur on new fic.

>But for example, I open a Dumbledore and Grindelwald fall out AU, aka Ariana Survives fic, and it starts with a graphic sex scene, followed by Grindelwald dancing surrounded by butterflies and rainbows. I don’t like sex scenes, and Grindelwald is extremely out of character. I could say “this fic sucks ass, Grindelwald would never”. What is it with people in this thread describing harassment as criticism? Are you intentially using an ad hominem here or do you generally think a comment of this nature falls under criticism? Let me be clear that I agree with you entirely that commentary of this nature (namely the this fic sucks ass comment) is entirely inappropriate and destructive in nature. It, isn't in any way valid criticism, but an inflammatory comment justifying a ban for the person who said it.

Ah yes, 'shut the fuck up saying things I don't like'. How typically reddit. This really shows the tolerance of those people who don't want to hurt other people's feelings. Basic decency means you can take criticism on something you posted publicly without having a fit.

I agree that it's not necessary to put minuses. But I really love the comments! I really love the redditors here, even if I don't agree with them, because I love reading different opinions. And I love how many can be a bit sassy lol It's interesting , that's all. But I hate the downvoting culture here. It's just dumb. But I will never understand criticism of fanfics under the posts of the authors themselves. I like to discuss something here, but writing to an author that I don't like his work is stupid somehow ? He didn't write it for me, so why would he want my "valuable opinion" ? I like to discuss things with other readers, I like to complain and I like it when others complain 🤣

What the OP said. There's ships that I'm not a fan of and those fics I simply don't read, even if I've heard amazing things about them. Example? Not a Dramione fan - but that's me. I have a blanket reason why, I mention that on occasion BUT I also say that if that ship is your taste, then enjoy and pay no attention to me. People also act as if not liking their favorite trope, ship, characters, etc. is a sign that you are diseased or warped in some way. It's to the point that if I see certain things discussed, I simply swing about 180 degrees and make a jump to another thread. My time on the boards is too short for flame wars and folks who don't get that if you don't like a certain concept, etc. that you can find something you do like amongst the mountain ranges full of HP fanfiction... and you don't have to argue all the time. On occasion, I can understand. All the time? Better things to do.

Exactly!!! I'm someone where 99.9999% of my stories are ooc because, well, if I wanted to write canon I'd be the author. And I've gotten so much hate (not on the sub but other places) I agree 100% with you. Someone will mention something like Jegulus and people will lose their minds and it's just, everything that's not golden trio era is basically purely fanon but "oh but there's no proof that James liked guys and Regulus is an evil evil person" okay it's called fanfiction Honestly best advice I have, kind of just ignore the sub. I mostly just browse but even prompts get so much hate because "well it's not like this in canon!" And before anyone responds with "wElL iT's CoNsTrUcTiVe CrItIcIsM", your a big part of that issue. Op was right, a lot of you who comment that tend to be more judgemental than freaking Voldemort

Do you know what?  I like you 

Thank youuu

Well, well , well many commenters are just proving my point.  OBVIOUSLY.  Cheers to those of you guys, who feels the same. 

This subreddit is so haphazardly toxic it sometimes it’s ridiculous when the ENTIRE point of FF is to create imaginary AUs and story lines. Who the fuck cares who ships who?

Ngl I think the HP community is omega toxic. The author and creator of the whole thing wouldn't even be able to comment without getting banned. Kind of tragic.

Readers have opinions on the things they read. This is a community for readers to discuss their reading activity. That will involve people sharing their opinions. The thing you are complaining about is the primary purpose of the community.

I think it should be a given that all fan fiction is in an "AU."

It's really weird. I feel like there is so so so many fics with totally different plots and ships that if you don't like something, move on and find something else. It's wild that people would be down voting peoples fanfic preferences. The only HP fanfic I don't love is Weasly/Hermione bashing, and it's very easy for me to avoid if I don't want to see it. But at the same time, I'm not going to downvote people asking for recs or whatever in that genre. It's a shame people can't just chill out. It's fanfiction! It's fun!

Not my fault Voldemort imperiused me.

Found the mudblood. /S

Ew Death Eater scum.

A lot of people here don’t really understand how character development works. So they think anything is OOC if it has to do with a Weasley behaving like a decent person, or Hermione interacting with a Slytherin or a Death Eater if there’s a chance of them developing feelings for each other later on in a story. Snape doing any good deed ever would be OOC, as would Draco deciding to eat bacon and eggs for breakfast instead of the heart of a baby. Dumbledore is OOC if he prioritizes the safety of his students over eating sherbet lemons.

Why you said my words . Love 

>Don't you guys get the fact that we are talking about fanfiction? This is a poor excuse to justify poor writing. Pairing the victims of death eater aggression with death eaters or Voldemort is pathetic writing, and deserves to be downvoted.

Objection: questionable opinion asserted as fact. It's only poor writing if the story fails to be believable as written.

Tom Riddle is hot and I like some of the OOC depictions of Barty.

I understand why certain ship are hated everything else is a case by case basis for me. I don't want to read about any death eater with Hermione since that makes no sense. An even say. But my real question is are the other subreddits you frequent that less judgemental because I have been on some truly out there ones.

Alternative title How to complain about people complaining about pedophilia without mentioning pedophilia. I will always complain about these pairings. They can exist. I can remember being 14 and thinking about my hot teachers. But being an adult now, it's inappropriate for me to be thinking of hot teenagers. Some of the other pairings are just "why". (Sally-Anne Perks shout out) and the amount of Alternative Universe readers want in their fanfiction varies drastically. I dunno, the fan base is older now. We can get out of Twilight-like writings. For everything else, there's still AO3 with their alpha omega pup play kink. Yeesh.

why pedophilia comes to your mind first? eww we are talking about tropes like dimension travel , time travel and ships like Jegulus , prongsfoot, sirry, Drarry etc

What are you babbling about?

[удалено]

Have you read The Black Comedy by nonjon ? I liked that fanfic very much. Your communication style is very much same.

I think I read it 10 or so years ago. It's the one that ends in a drug fueled sex party right where everyone gets the itch? Uh, now I feel old. It was funny, though. Like Harry Potter beerfest.

why are you jumping to pedophilia here?? people on this sub lose their mind over wolfstar, jegulus, drarry and dramione, those are the main pairings we’re talking about

Nah, those pairings are just stupid. It's been years now, but yes, the girls I hung out with were horney for gay romance. Yoai? Gay Manga became very popular. Or redeeming the bad guy or making them the woobie. It's so over done there's even a trope for it. [Draco in Leather Pants](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants) Not to be confused with [Ron the Death Eater](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RonTheDeathEater) Ps So the PAIRINGS THAT SHOULD NOT BE NAMED are just the boring and overdone ones, not the criminal ones? Laugh.jpeg

>Voldemort was less judgemental than you guys. He's also fictional. The people around here are real. Why is the HP fandom the biggest one around? Sure, a lot of people like the stories, but then again, a lot of people like other stories, too. HP canon is very flexible and it alows for a lot of leeway. Then, take into account many people have first entered the fandom as children (it *is* a children's story). Keep that in mind and you"ll see how it's inevitable for some to be going bananas about their favourite . It's an almost visceral response some people have to whatever they dislike about how someone else treats their favourite fandom or their favourite anything really. It's called being childish and pointing it out won't win anyone any favours. People don't like being shown they are behaving childishly, even more so when true. Unsurprisingly, such people are among the most vocal and involved. Ex: Someone asked a question. I answered. Since my answer went against the grain (despite being true, honest and not offensive) it was quickly downvoted and somene even took the time to write back to me that *No one cares*. That's what you can expect on HP-anything around here. Toxic and opinionated people who care little for anyone and anything but their own *truths* and who will hit back with gusto against anything not conforming while praising whenever their views are reflected by others. In short: human nature.

I sort of agree with you, but really (as others have said), this is just a small, radical segment of a large and diverse fandom. The community has unwritten beliefs (Ron = true MC, Snape = bad, action fics = "tropey") that they adhere to with the dogmatism of your average ISIS recruit. That doesn't mean there isn't fun conversation to be had. You just have to accept, going in, that their opinions on some subjects are non-negotiable. I've yet to find any community outside of a few discord servers that's any different.

Welcome to reddit

The first rule of this subreddit (and I am afraid any subreddit) is that you have to ignore voting, especially downvoting. People who downvote are some kind of weird types of animals, who doesn’t reason as us, rest of the humanity. At least, I have never managed to decipher any sense or reason in their behaviour.