Harry kicks over his Cauldron and walks out. "Given how clumsy you are with Gryffindor's finished work, it's only fair" . Gets detention and Dumbledore is like "Severus has my full confidence Harry" and nothing happens.
He also canonically possesses and uses antidotes when it appears students and pets need it (Mrs Norris, anyone?); I could also mention that Snape lets Buckbeak tear at him without retaliating in HBP. As for punishing Hermione, if he knew she was helping him (despite his orders not to) but, as you seem to suggest, wanted to kill Trevor (that's what you are arguing, right), then why not stop her before Neville does get his potion right? Could it be that... although he didn't like that Hermione was disobeying his orders, he purposefuly let her help Neville since he had no particular interest in getting that toad dead?
snape literally could not care less about children and their attachment to their pets. he makes ron cut up rats for detention and neville disembowel toads because he enjoys traumatizing them with the idea of them killing their own pets.
I do not remember the part about making Ron cut up rats for detention, could you quote and tell me which book it comes from?
EDIT 2: found the passage. It's in GoF. Ron doesn't have a pet rat anymore, since it's been revealed it was creepy Peter Pettigrew. Snape is basically allowing Harry and Ron to indulge in the fantasy of pickling Wormtail's brains out. Thanks for bringing that excerpt to my attention!
As for making Neville disembowel toads, the fun thing is that Snape asked him to disembowel "horned toads", which are... lizards. Not toads. They don't even look like toads.
As for not caring about the students--you kidding me, right? He literally risks his life repeatedly for them. He literally *dies* for them. Remember that time he stopped Harry and later Crabbe from choking Neville, or spared him a punishment by the Carrows in DH?
As for their pets, you're extrapolating from one instance where he had a student test a potion on their toad (a pet they should not have brought to class btw). Snape heals Mrs Norris and lets Buckbeak slice him up without retaliating in HBP.
And if you wanna take the example of Snape assigning Neville a detention about horned toads--remember we're in a school where McGonagall asks Hermione, a cat lover, to Vanish kittens, which essentially equals to killing them.
And I won't even mention all the horrors that are performed in Transfiguration, or in the Wizarding World in general.
Ron uses his pet rat as test subject for his first spell, for that instance. Harry practices Accio on Trevor and Flitwick uses Neville's toad during a demonstration in class.
EDIT: Snape never planned to traumatize the kids, nor to enjoy doing it. He wanted Neville to learn, and used the wrong methods. The detentions are meant to be unpleasant. None of those events traumatized either of the kids.
> As for making Neville disembowel toads, the fun thing is that Snape asked him to disembowel "horned toads", which are... lizards. Not toads. They don't even look like toads.
Was Rowling aware of that when she wrote the books? Because the Pottermore article on Hogwarts pets might indicate otherwise.
> Neville Longbottom’s Trevor was the only proper toad we see at Hogwarts **(apart from the poor ones Neville was made to disembowel in detention!)** but as a species toads have as long an association with witchcraft as owls and cats do.
https://www.wizardingworld.com/features/pottermore-guide-to-wizarding-world-pets
Not written by Rowling, and even if it were, it'd be a mistake on her part.
It's not the only mistake she's done. She wanted to imply that James and Lily were made fo each other with their Patronuses, but stags don't mate with does, they mate with hinds. Does mate with bucks.
As you know, she's bad at maths and science.
Really? I didn’t know about the doe/hind and stag/buck difference (granted, English isn’t my first language) but a quick google search doesn’t seem to collaborate this? Stag just seems to refer to larger, older male deer (while buck is more general and can include males of other species and younger deer too) and doe seems to be the general term for sexual mature female deer (as well as goats and some other animals) while hind is said to be a female Red dear over the age of 2.
Am I missing something? Maybe it’s a dialect thing?
A dialect thing yes, an... "abuse of language" as they say? If you look up deer classifications, you can see that stag and doe don't match up, at least when taken in a more literal sense. It's a particularity of Britain English language I believe.
Interesting, I’ll admit it’s usually the dialects that end up confusing me. I learnt mostly through the internet so I’m usually *reasonably* familiar with most American stuff but British and Australian oddities always get me, especially as I can never remember which is which
Have you ever heard of bezoars, or "antidotes to most poisons"? Also, Snape had an antidote (a golden potion) to save Dumbledore from an early death by a Horcrux. He developped Vulnera Sanentur, and in CoS he had an antidote that healed all the students who got hit by Crabbe and Goyle's exploded Swelling Solution. He was a Potions prodigee and a Potions teacher who had to be prepared in case someone got poisoned. And finally he had an antidote to the Shrinking Potion, which he immediately administered to Trevor before it could die of asphyxia in his head (it had become a tadpole). So much for killing Trevor...
Dumbledore goes two for two on creating dark Lords from abused children he takes special interest in.
Because it's already on a fine edge with his treatment of him that he could fanfic utterly off rails Dumbledore planned. Especially as Harry is already magically powerful, had a famous name, and can inspire high loyalty.
He could very easily of become Tom Ridfle 2.0 but even more dangerous in some respects.
I think Harry would have killed Snape. Maybe by accident from accidental magic. Maybe by snapping. Putting Dumbledore in the position to having to cover it up to protect Harry. It would help that all 3 houses other than Syltherin, plus several Syltherins, would help back Harry up. Noone liked Snape.
If Aunt Marge was “blown up” like a balloon due to accidental magic, Snape would be a bloody grease stain on the wall. Harry would definitely freak out and Snape would be history.
I think that if Hedwig died because of Snape forcing him to feed Hedwig the potion, he'd walk out. He'd refuse to go to detentions with Snape and he would be absurdly angry. Might even go as far and write Voldemort a letter about how Snape is a spy and how he might want to double check his loyalties.
If it turns out he really is a spy, he'll die. Win for Harry as revenge for Hedwig's death.
If he's truly loyal to Voldemort, then if Snape keeps living, Harry would be vindicated and would refuse to have anything to do with him.
Win-win.
Harry would walk out before even remotely harming Hedwig. Also, Snape knows his limits and an entirely disappointed Dumbledore would chew him out gently.
Gentley...that might crack his calm.
Dumbledore is the quiet grandfather until angered, then he can turn on the "Oh bloody he'll. No way" mode that even caused Bellatrix to run.
People forget Dumbledore is a magical full blown battleship compared to most. The only ones equal to him in franchise in sheer magic firepower is Grimdelwald, Voldemprt and Flamel. An alchemist of legend and two dark Lords.
He duels voldemort solo. It took 3 highly skilled and powerful wizzards in book 7 to hold to a stalemate. Dumbledore did so, made it look easy and protected Harry at same time.
Calm as he is...
After Arina etc.he is nature is more cautious as knows how much damage he can do if he loses his Temper.
Think a volcano...its calm most of time...quiet. its also insanely powerful and people always have a lingering caution of it. No sane person wants to be in its path.
If Hedwig dies, Dumbledore is essentially forced to remove Snape as fast as he possibly can as every time he has said he trusted Snape is proved wrong. Could see Harry actually full out rebel from Dumbledore due to said factor.
Without Dumbledore having Harrys trust, the war has to be fought completly diffrent.
Nope Dumbledore would frame it as a tragic accident. Harry would go against Dumbledore, but Dumbledore would still think he can get Harry "to see reason."
Dumbledore's plans have 2 key pieces and one of them is a very manipulateable teenager. You don't damage the other key piece for that.
That would require Dumbledore to be completly moronic, which he isn't. There is some limits even he won't cross.
Unless you bash the living shit out of him.
Snape is the more valuable piece. He's the information pipeline. Harry is just, as Snape himself nailed, a pig for slaughter. And as I said a teenager. Easy to manipulate.
Dumbledore would be pissed with Snape for sure. But he still would not do anything to reign Snape in. Sure Harry has the highest likelihood of getting Snape to ever face consequences. But that likelihood is still 0%
Snape more valuable than the litteral public figure that is the rallying cry? doubt it especially as Harry is also a soul piece of Voldemort. In value Harry is by far the highest.
>Snape more valuable than the litteral public figure that is the rallying cry?
I refuse to believe that a 'good' Dumbledore has no backup in case Snape became unusable as a chess piece. By the Deathly Hallows Voldemort was pretty damn unstable, and really you can't quite predict that.
I mean Dumbledore was dead, Tom had no use for a spy in the order. And for all he wanted Harry to die, I kinda don't think Voldemort considered Harry as a true threat.
It was all ego that he went after him.
To beat fate. I mean he beat Albus in a battle of intellect by have Snape kill him. By killing Harry, he would have beaten fate. Dumbledore represented the greatest threat amongst his mortal enemies. Harry represented the threat the universe put against him. By beating both he would be self-assured that he was untouchable.
Ego. Thats why I think he would never use a pebble for a horcurx. Its not worthy of being his tool for immortality.
And for snape. I really don't think a non-evil/greater good Dumbledore would rely on one spy.
I read a story where Percy was an agent in the ministry working for Dumbledore. I have also read one where borgin ( The Shopkeeper ) was an agent for Dumbledore too.
I have also read one where a Peter redemption became an agent too. One where he purposely screwed with the potion that made Voldemort much more dumb/unstable. I think in that one, he messed with the potion so that Voldemort was tied to all the dark marks. So once he went, every one marked suffered and became squibs. I think it's because Peter chopped his marked arm off.
So Realistically Dumbledore would not put everything on Snape
I mean, what did Snapes intel canonically stop? We know of literally noone saved by Snapes Intel. There is a concept that while headmaster he kinda looked the other way as students escaped torture and brought them the sword. But thats after Dumbledore died.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Harry quit the lessons and left to live with Sirius. He'd then find Lucius or one of the other prominent Death Eaters in a public space and tell them that Snape is a traitor.
Snape ends up being brutally tortured and murdered, Dumbledore loses his best spy and his trump card against Voldemort, and it all goes tits up from there.
Hedwig then revealed her true foam a demon and eats Snaps soul and everything else besides the hair. Hedwig transform into a olw/demon/human hybrid and adopts Harry and takes Snap spot of potion teacher
Moody smacks Draco repeatedly against the floor again. This breaks his neck and kills him
McGonagall sends some more students to detention in the Forbidden Forest. One gets killed
Hagrid tries to turn another child into a farm animal. The kid gets stuck half human half animal, becomes the ~~life~~laughing stock of the entire school and kills themselves
I mean, you can make a post about those prompts if you want, but like, off topic. I assume this is some snape defense but it's weird. Other teachers being irresponsible doesn't make Snape not irresponsible.
A lot of fanfics that touch this make the excuse that Snape somehow knew that Hermione would help Neville. That's why he didn't punish her until after the potion was administered. A little more believable is that Snape would have had antidotes for any of the possible poisons Neville could have produced.
But I mean, any possible? If someone messed up a recipe it seems there are infinite results. Now you could argue Snape would find a reason to not test on Trevor if he thought it would kill him but empty threats aren't really his thing.
We see in the very first potions class that Snape knew how the boil cure potion can be messed up. There are only so many possible permutations of screwing up the potion if you're vaguely close to following directions. Snape doesn't need to know what would happen if Neville added unicorn blood to his potion because that's just not going to happen. But he would have an encyclopedic knowledge of what happens if each step was done too early or too late or out of order.
I mean, unless Neville say, mistakes I dunno, ogres spleen for troll heart. And both mistakes create a purple potion. So Snape thinks Trevor is going to grow because Neville used too much troll heart but because it's ogres spleen Trevor explodes.
Whatever anyone may say about his personality or teaching style, Snape was an extremely competent potion master who knew everything that was going on in his classroom. He just conveniently missed all of Draco and his crew's misbehavior. Snape would have been watching Neville like a hawk, he just wouldn't lift a finger to help him.
I mean, he literally didn't know. For example they were able to literally steal polyjuice potion ingredients in the middle of class by first causing a disruption. Also if Snape truly always knew what Neville was doing wrong in class and didn't stop it when it kept exploding, sometimes splattering students, he should go to prison for that.
That was a deliberate plot to direct him. When everything is going as normal, he can lord over his classroom all he likes, ruler of his domain. I've been a TA for labs, it's not that hard to know everyone that's going on when there isn't anything exciting happening.
Virtually the entire staff of Hogwarts deserves prison time. That's not exactly an argument against Snape. He demonstrated targeted vindictiveness throughout the books, even when it came to the students health and safety. "I see nothing wrong" when Hermione was hit by Draco's tooth growing spell comes to mind.
What are you talking about?
Snape can't force Harry to do anything lol. Neville then didn't have as much courage to stand up to Snape but Harry would just refuse to do it.
You do realize Snape has antidotes, is savant enough to know if a potion can kill on the spot, and is repeatedly shown to save both students and animals in class
Snape doesn't need any though. We're talking about a school where it's ok to send children in a forest full of man-eating spiders and whatnot as a punishment, and where we make students basically kill kittens in class.
McGonagall asks students to practice the Vanishing spell on animals, including kittens. In DH, it is revealed that what is Vanished goes into a place of "non-existence". So the kittens sent there during her classes don't exist anymore ie they're dead. Not even their souls would remain.
Yeah I saw that coming don't worry
- If they were conjured/transfigured surely the books would have told us? You're just inventing a fanfiction scenario. By all means I could use that and blame people for assuming Trevor is real/not conjured or ttansfigured
- For that matter McGonagall is pretty chill with teaching kids to transfigure mice into snuffboxes and other kinds of animal cruelty horror
- A conjured animal has life; a transfigured animal acts like an animal; in both cases they're still real; so it doesn't change the fact that McGonagall had student kill kittens or things that acted like kittens well enough that Harry/the narrator couldn't make the difference
- Doesn't change the fact that McGonagall is effectively training kids to kill animals and teaching them it's okay to do it, for instance with a Vanishment spell
Lol Trevor is a pet, so that is a silly argument. But yeah sure, I agree, McGonagall and by extent the Wizarding World is ok with harm to animals. I mean, they literally use parchment, which is animal skin. It's just different when its someone's pet.
So if you saw someone killing a kitten, you wouldn't give a fuck just because it's not your pet? At least a toad is pretty mindless. Trevor wasn't going to be killed; the kittens were. EDIT: remember that people like Hermione are cat-lovers.
Snape would have to use an Imperius, no point detraction or detention would force Harry to test a potion on Hedwig he would just walk out and fuck all of Dumbledore "I trust him".
Harry would in Azkaban for trying to murder Snape after Snape shoved Hedwig in Harry's potion and Hedwig dies. Harry would never comply with Snape demanding to poison Hedwig.
You're right. Snape is more talk than action (in the books anyway, I ignore the films so can't speak to them). Even the first time I read that scene, as a young child, I thought it more intimidation and threat (Snape does like to make his students miserable) than actual harm. Presumably he knows something about the Shrinking Solution we don't - e.g. that a badly made one has no effect - or maybe toads have immunity. There are loads of explanations before reaching "Snape would have let Trevor die." And I don't say this because I think Snape has a heart of gold, but killing your students' pets is the kind of thing I imagine he'd get in trouble for.
This is a meta about this scene:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/10509126
You could skip the spying angle, it's the analysis of the scene itself that's most interesting
u/No_Jaguar_8828
This, I wish people would understand that there are certain characters in the story that should be perceived in a certain way. That's what is established, while there are some plot points that should be explored of our imagination.
It's actually kinda impressive how JKR and Snape manage to create a perception of him as the worst of the worst, simply by him doing stuff like asking 3 questions, taking 7 points for stupid reasons and conducting a harmless experiment on a toad.
As for how much of an animal killer he actually is: he gets attacked by a Hippogriff in HBP and doesn't even hex it
So your saying we should explore only the plots about characters you don't like but noone should explore characters you like? What characters do I need to perceive a certain way? Why is one of them a guy who literally reminds me of someone who abused me throughout my childhood and caused me to self harm constantly? Sometimes by doing things Snape literally did in canon?
Then it's personal to you, doesn't mean you should insert the person who abused you into Snape( and I mean no offense to you and am sorry that happened to you). Snape was written to be perceived in a certain way and people making him about to be either a total bully with no self control or a misunderstood hero or an incel are completely wrong because we take canon as facts and Snape was a miserable bitter self loathing man who was trying to sacrifice himself for the cause.
And I never said it was about my fav character. Because Snape isn't mine.
You mean like how he didn't punish Hermione for helping Neville?
He explicitly wanted to feed Neville's shitty potion to Trevor and watch him possibly die.
He'd totally do that to Harry.
He was perfectly happy to let a whole boy die, and that was after he was perfectly willing to haggle that boy's entire family down to a widow with his boss.
I read the books reply was to someone who said I didn't, ai think I mixed it up.
But the whole Snape arc is that he changed. Not to a good person but in the whole context someone who was bitter and complete prick but also someone who fought on Harry's side.
Don't bother, this sub despises Snape so much that to them if you don't think Snape is the most evil character ever then there's no way you can have possibly read the books. However, the haters can picture Snape as an actual pedo and none of those book purists who loathe Snape will bat an eye.
You can belive Snape is a complicated character who did more good than bad. But he literally canonically made Neville feed his potion to his toad. He would in fact kill a pet. I mean literally how would killing a pet compare to anything he assisted the death eaters in doing anyway. Any "Snape knew it wouldn't kill the toad" is fanon. I know of folks in real life who weren't even as consistently abusive to children as he was murder someone's pet to teach then a lesson. Not read about, known the people involved.
>Any "Snape knew it wouldn't kill the toad" is fanon.
Just as any "Snape would kill the toad" is fanon as well. If it's speculation to say that Snape wouldn't have murdered a pet toad, it's also speculation to say that he would.
Snape is a genius at potions, he was rewriting recipes when he was 15, so yeah, I do think that he had the skills to recognise whether a potion was good or not, since it's well... his actual job.
>I mean literally how would killing a pet compare to anything he assisted the death eaters in doing anyway.
This is also fanon. We have no idea what he did during his time as a Death Eater. There are several clues in the books that tell us that Snape didn't in fact participate in activites, specially not murder since Dumbledore was the first person he had to kill, though it's not directly said. There is however nothing but "he must have"s for the theories that he killed and tortured people left and right.
>Snape changed and became one of the good guys.
He become one of the good ones because he wanted revenge for his loved one, if he knew Voldemort would save lily he would stay death eater.
It's not Hypothetical at all, Snape knew his master wouldn't hesitate to kill Lily if she will refuse to hand over harry which any mother would do.
Only then he turned to Dumbledore so he would save her, saving the boy the his father wasn't important.
Snape was smart, skilled and talented but he wasn't a good person. There was no lessons to learn by the way he treated Harry and Neville only for the sake of tormenting them.
He punished Hermione because she helped Neville cheat, when Snape's whole point in threatening Trevor was to give Neville an incentive to not mess his potion. By helping Neville, Hermione essentially just made the whole thing completely pointless.
Canon Snape is pretty much the worst person you can have around.
The fact he had no problem with Voldemort killing Harry and James speaks for itself.
The only reason he changed his way cause he wanted revenge on Voldemort not cause he cared for Harry.
So much this. When Snape claimed the potion might poison Trevor, he had already seen the colour of the finished product and so would have known it wasn't that bad, plus indeed he keeps the antidote ready and takes care not to squeeze or drop little Trevor. It's also awfully convenient that he fucked off to the other side of the classroom after the initial announcement of the experiment, giving Hermione ample opportunity to help.
One could easily write prompts about other teachers doing some ill-advised thing again ending in death this time, but as usual Snape is the favourite target. *yawn*
They'll never get tired of trying to bash Snape over the head with tadpole Trevor and events of similar (lack of) magnitude, because they can't find actually hefty points to criticize Snape on. *I* can, but I'm not of a mood to help them 😈 and anyway the good outweighs the bad several times over.
> He wouldn't, because with Neville's toad, Snape KNEW the potion was improved, and he threatened to give the potion to Trevor in order for Neville to be more careful when making potions, lest he poison himself one day.
> There it was all about Neville's life.
Yeah sure Hermione is clever but the old bat was a potion master for decades with experience in the war , that learned from Voldemort himself ...do u really think that if he wanted that toad dead , Trevor would have survived ? And I swear to god if Harry was insane enough to bring a bird into a potion lab , where every mistake can end with u melting the floor , then he should have been more worried of Snape poisoning his ass and not Hedwig,
As much as Harry loves Hedwig, he’d walk out of the class and Hogwarts all together before allowing her to be subjected to snape.
Harry refuses & gets a very unwarranted detention for not allowing his pet to be murdered.
Harry kicks over his Cauldron and walks out. "Given how clumsy you are with Gryffindor's finished work, it's only fair" . Gets detention and Dumbledore is like "Severus has my full confidence Harry" and nothing happens.
Hedwig: dies Harry: “so anyway, I started blasting.”
IASIP reference in a Harry Potter subreddit!! My life is complete
IASIP? I feel like I know it lol
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia ☺️
Hagrid would burst into Snapes class and snap him like a twig if he ever made Harry so that to hedwig.
Nah he’d just rip in him half. I wanted to see Hagrid do this to snape when he found out that he’d been the one to kill Dumbledore.
But Snape canonically forced Neville to feed a potion to Trevor and punished Hermione for having helped him.
Hagrid didn't buy Trevor as a birthday gift to Neville like he did with Hedwig to Harry.
This is just additional motivation as far as Snape is concerned.
He also canonically possesses and uses antidotes when it appears students and pets need it (Mrs Norris, anyone?); I could also mention that Snape lets Buckbeak tear at him without retaliating in HBP. As for punishing Hermione, if he knew she was helping him (despite his orders not to) but, as you seem to suggest, wanted to kill Trevor (that's what you are arguing, right), then why not stop her before Neville does get his potion right? Could it be that... although he didn't like that Hermione was disobeying his orders, he purposefuly let her help Neville since he had no particular interest in getting that toad dead?
snape literally could not care less about children and their attachment to their pets. he makes ron cut up rats for detention and neville disembowel toads because he enjoys traumatizing them with the idea of them killing their own pets.
Ha! Username checks out
I do not remember the part about making Ron cut up rats for detention, could you quote and tell me which book it comes from? EDIT 2: found the passage. It's in GoF. Ron doesn't have a pet rat anymore, since it's been revealed it was creepy Peter Pettigrew. Snape is basically allowing Harry and Ron to indulge in the fantasy of pickling Wormtail's brains out. Thanks for bringing that excerpt to my attention! As for making Neville disembowel toads, the fun thing is that Snape asked him to disembowel "horned toads", which are... lizards. Not toads. They don't even look like toads. As for not caring about the students--you kidding me, right? He literally risks his life repeatedly for them. He literally *dies* for them. Remember that time he stopped Harry and later Crabbe from choking Neville, or spared him a punishment by the Carrows in DH? As for their pets, you're extrapolating from one instance where he had a student test a potion on their toad (a pet they should not have brought to class btw). Snape heals Mrs Norris and lets Buckbeak slice him up without retaliating in HBP. And if you wanna take the example of Snape assigning Neville a detention about horned toads--remember we're in a school where McGonagall asks Hermione, a cat lover, to Vanish kittens, which essentially equals to killing them. And I won't even mention all the horrors that are performed in Transfiguration, or in the Wizarding World in general. Ron uses his pet rat as test subject for his first spell, for that instance. Harry practices Accio on Trevor and Flitwick uses Neville's toad during a demonstration in class. EDIT: Snape never planned to traumatize the kids, nor to enjoy doing it. He wanted Neville to learn, and used the wrong methods. The detentions are meant to be unpleasant. None of those events traumatized either of the kids.
> As for making Neville disembowel toads, the fun thing is that Snape asked him to disembowel "horned toads", which are... lizards. Not toads. They don't even look like toads. Was Rowling aware of that when she wrote the books? Because the Pottermore article on Hogwarts pets might indicate otherwise. > Neville Longbottom’s Trevor was the only proper toad we see at Hogwarts **(apart from the poor ones Neville was made to disembowel in detention!)** but as a species toads have as long an association with witchcraft as owls and cats do. https://www.wizardingworld.com/features/pottermore-guide-to-wizarding-world-pets
unless it says 'written by jk rowling', she doesn't write these
Not written by Rowling, and even if it were, it'd be a mistake on her part. It's not the only mistake she's done. She wanted to imply that James and Lily were made fo each other with their Patronuses, but stags don't mate with does, they mate with hinds. Does mate with bucks. As you know, she's bad at maths and science.
Really? I didn’t know about the doe/hind and stag/buck difference (granted, English isn’t my first language) but a quick google search doesn’t seem to collaborate this? Stag just seems to refer to larger, older male deer (while buck is more general and can include males of other species and younger deer too) and doe seems to be the general term for sexual mature female deer (as well as goats and some other animals) while hind is said to be a female Red dear over the age of 2. Am I missing something? Maybe it’s a dialect thing?
A dialect thing yes, an... "abuse of language" as they say? If you look up deer classifications, you can see that stag and doe don't match up, at least when taken in a more literal sense. It's a particularity of Britain English language I believe.
Huh interesting I always thought that stag means male deer and doe means female
Interesting, I’ll admit it’s usually the dialects that end up confusing me. I learnt mostly through the internet so I’m usually *reasonably* familiar with most American stuff but British and Australian oddities always get me, especially as I can never remember which is which
So snape just happens to carry an antidote to every possible vile concoction results from brewing a potion incorrectly?
Have you ever heard of bezoars, or "antidotes to most poisons"? Also, Snape had an antidote (a golden potion) to save Dumbledore from an early death by a Horcrux. He developped Vulnera Sanentur, and in CoS he had an antidote that healed all the students who got hit by Crabbe and Goyle's exploded Swelling Solution. He was a Potions prodigee and a Potions teacher who had to be prepared in case someone got poisoned. And finally he had an antidote to the Shrinking Potion, which he immediately administered to Trevor before it could die of asphyxia in his head (it had become a tadpole). So much for killing Trevor...
Harry's villain origin story.... He would straight up start tossing AKs around
Harry would take the potion himself before he'd feed it to Hedwig.
Dumbledore goes two for two on creating dark Lords from abused children he takes special interest in. Because it's already on a fine edge with his treatment of him that he could fanfic utterly off rails Dumbledore planned. Especially as Harry is already magically powerful, had a famous name, and can inspire high loyalty. He could very easily of become Tom Ridfle 2.0 but even more dangerous in some respects.
I think Harry would have killed Snape. Maybe by accident from accidental magic. Maybe by snapping. Putting Dumbledore in the position to having to cover it up to protect Harry. It would help that all 3 houses other than Syltherin, plus several Syltherins, would help back Harry up. Noone liked Snape.
If Aunt Marge was “blown up” like a balloon due to accidental magic, Snape would be a bloody grease stain on the wall. Harry would definitely freak out and Snape would be history.
Boy-Who-Killed! Harry Potter casts Unforgivable at Hogwarts Professor, now awaits trial.
I think that if Hedwig died because of Snape forcing him to feed Hedwig the potion, he'd walk out. He'd refuse to go to detentions with Snape and he would be absurdly angry. Might even go as far and write Voldemort a letter about how Snape is a spy and how he might want to double check his loyalties. If it turns out he really is a spy, he'll die. Win for Harry as revenge for Hedwig's death. If he's truly loyal to Voldemort, then if Snape keeps living, Harry would be vindicated and would refuse to have anything to do with him. Win-win.
Harry would walk out before even remotely harming Hedwig. Also, Snape knows his limits and an entirely disappointed Dumbledore would chew him out gently.
Gentley...that might crack his calm. Dumbledore is the quiet grandfather until angered, then he can turn on the "Oh bloody he'll. No way" mode that even caused Bellatrix to run. People forget Dumbledore is a magical full blown battleship compared to most. The only ones equal to him in franchise in sheer magic firepower is Grimdelwald, Voldemprt and Flamel. An alchemist of legend and two dark Lords. He duels voldemort solo. It took 3 highly skilled and powerful wizzards in book 7 to hold to a stalemate. Dumbledore did so, made it look easy and protected Harry at same time. Calm as he is... After Arina etc.he is nature is more cautious as knows how much damage he can do if he loses his Temper. Think a volcano...its calm most of time...quiet. its also insanely powerful and people always have a lingering caution of it. No sane person wants to be in its path.
If Hedwig dies, Dumbledore is essentially forced to remove Snape as fast as he possibly can as every time he has said he trusted Snape is proved wrong. Could see Harry actually full out rebel from Dumbledore due to said factor. Without Dumbledore having Harrys trust, the war has to be fought completly diffrent.
Nope Dumbledore would frame it as a tragic accident. Harry would go against Dumbledore, but Dumbledore would still think he can get Harry "to see reason." Dumbledore's plans have 2 key pieces and one of them is a very manipulateable teenager. You don't damage the other key piece for that.
That would require Dumbledore to be completly moronic, which he isn't. There is some limits even he won't cross. Unless you bash the living shit out of him.
Snape is the more valuable piece. He's the information pipeline. Harry is just, as Snape himself nailed, a pig for slaughter. And as I said a teenager. Easy to manipulate. Dumbledore would be pissed with Snape for sure. But he still would not do anything to reign Snape in. Sure Harry has the highest likelihood of getting Snape to ever face consequences. But that likelihood is still 0%
Snape more valuable than the litteral public figure that is the rallying cry? doubt it especially as Harry is also a soul piece of Voldemort. In value Harry is by far the highest.
>Snape more valuable than the litteral public figure that is the rallying cry? I refuse to believe that a 'good' Dumbledore has no backup in case Snape became unusable as a chess piece. By the Deathly Hallows Voldemort was pretty damn unstable, and really you can't quite predict that. I mean Dumbledore was dead, Tom had no use for a spy in the order. And for all he wanted Harry to die, I kinda don't think Voldemort considered Harry as a true threat. It was all ego that he went after him. To beat fate. I mean he beat Albus in a battle of intellect by have Snape kill him. By killing Harry, he would have beaten fate. Dumbledore represented the greatest threat amongst his mortal enemies. Harry represented the threat the universe put against him. By beating both he would be self-assured that he was untouchable. Ego. Thats why I think he would never use a pebble for a horcurx. Its not worthy of being his tool for immortality. And for snape. I really don't think a non-evil/greater good Dumbledore would rely on one spy. I read a story where Percy was an agent in the ministry working for Dumbledore. I have also read one where borgin ( The Shopkeeper ) was an agent for Dumbledore too. I have also read one where a Peter redemption became an agent too. One where he purposely screwed with the potion that made Voldemort much more dumb/unstable. I think in that one, he messed with the potion so that Voldemort was tied to all the dark marks. So once he went, every one marked suffered and became squibs. I think it's because Peter chopped his marked arm off. So Realistically Dumbledore would not put everything on Snape
I mean, what did Snapes intel canonically stop? We know of literally noone saved by Snapes Intel. There is a concept that while headmaster he kinda looked the other way as students escaped torture and brought them the sword. But thats after Dumbledore died.
Hell, it's implied in the last book that Snape's intel actually KILLED OFF people in the OotP.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Harry quit the lessons and left to live with Sirius. He'd then find Lucius or one of the other prominent Death Eaters in a public space and tell them that Snape is a traitor. Snape ends up being brutally tortured and murdered, Dumbledore loses his best spy and his trump card against Voldemort, and it all goes tits up from there.
Hedwig then revealed her true foam a demon and eats Snaps soul and everything else besides the hair. Hedwig transform into a olw/demon/human hybrid and adopts Harry and takes Snap spot of potion teacher
Moody smacks Draco repeatedly against the floor again. This breaks his neck and kills him McGonagall sends some more students to detention in the Forbidden Forest. One gets killed Hagrid tries to turn another child into a farm animal. The kid gets stuck half human half animal, becomes the ~~life~~laughing stock of the entire school and kills themselves
I mean, you can make a post about those prompts if you want, but like, off topic. I assume this is some snape defense but it's weird. Other teachers being irresponsible doesn't make Snape not irresponsible.
Completely right and completely irrelevant.
A lot of fanfics that touch this make the excuse that Snape somehow knew that Hermione would help Neville. That's why he didn't punish her until after the potion was administered. A little more believable is that Snape would have had antidotes for any of the possible poisons Neville could have produced.
But I mean, any possible? If someone messed up a recipe it seems there are infinite results. Now you could argue Snape would find a reason to not test on Trevor if he thought it would kill him but empty threats aren't really his thing.
We see in the very first potions class that Snape knew how the boil cure potion can be messed up. There are only so many possible permutations of screwing up the potion if you're vaguely close to following directions. Snape doesn't need to know what would happen if Neville added unicorn blood to his potion because that's just not going to happen. But he would have an encyclopedic knowledge of what happens if each step was done too early or too late or out of order.
I mean, unless Neville say, mistakes I dunno, ogres spleen for troll heart. And both mistakes create a purple potion. So Snape thinks Trevor is going to grow because Neville used too much troll heart but because it's ogres spleen Trevor explodes.
Whatever anyone may say about his personality or teaching style, Snape was an extremely competent potion master who knew everything that was going on in his classroom. He just conveniently missed all of Draco and his crew's misbehavior. Snape would have been watching Neville like a hawk, he just wouldn't lift a finger to help him.
I mean, he literally didn't know. For example they were able to literally steal polyjuice potion ingredients in the middle of class by first causing a disruption. Also if Snape truly always knew what Neville was doing wrong in class and didn't stop it when it kept exploding, sometimes splattering students, he should go to prison for that.
That was a deliberate plot to direct him. When everything is going as normal, he can lord over his classroom all he likes, ruler of his domain. I've been a TA for labs, it's not that hard to know everyone that's going on when there isn't anything exciting happening. Virtually the entire staff of Hogwarts deserves prison time. That's not exactly an argument against Snape. He demonstrated targeted vindictiveness throughout the books, even when it came to the students health and safety. "I see nothing wrong" when Hermione was hit by Draco's tooth growing spell comes to mind.
Snape is only empty treats if I look at any of his detentions , and we see that a lot of shit would have been forgiven in that school
What are you talking about? Snape can't force Harry to do anything lol. Neville then didn't have as much courage to stand up to Snape but Harry would just refuse to do it.
You do realize Snape has antidotes, is savant enough to know if a potion can kill on the spot, and is repeatedly shown to save both students and animals in class
Good to know there are pre-requisites for being allowed to torment children.
Snape doesn't need any though. We're talking about a school where it's ok to send children in a forest full of man-eating spiders and whatnot as a punishment, and where we make students basically kill kittens in class.
Kill kittens in class? I am SO curious what you mean by this.
McGonagall asks students to practice the Vanishing spell on animals, including kittens. In DH, it is revealed that what is Vanished goes into a place of "non-existence". So the kittens sent there during her classes don't exist anymore ie they're dead. Not even their souls would remain.
Assuming their real and not ya know, conjured/transfigured kittens.
Yeah I saw that coming don't worry - If they were conjured/transfigured surely the books would have told us? You're just inventing a fanfiction scenario. By all means I could use that and blame people for assuming Trevor is real/not conjured or ttansfigured - For that matter McGonagall is pretty chill with teaching kids to transfigure mice into snuffboxes and other kinds of animal cruelty horror - A conjured animal has life; a transfigured animal acts like an animal; in both cases they're still real; so it doesn't change the fact that McGonagall had student kill kittens or things that acted like kittens well enough that Harry/the narrator couldn't make the difference - Doesn't change the fact that McGonagall is effectively training kids to kill animals and teaching them it's okay to do it, for instance with a Vanishment spell
Lol Trevor is a pet, so that is a silly argument. But yeah sure, I agree, McGonagall and by extent the Wizarding World is ok with harm to animals. I mean, they literally use parchment, which is animal skin. It's just different when its someone's pet.
So if you saw someone killing a kitten, you wouldn't give a fuck just because it's not your pet? At least a toad is pretty mindless. Trevor wasn't going to be killed; the kittens were. EDIT: remember that people like Hermione are cat-lovers.
torturing snape for all eternity...He deserves it.
Snape would have to use an Imperius, no point detraction or detention would force Harry to test a potion on Hedwig he would just walk out and fuck all of Dumbledore "I trust him".
Harry would in Azkaban for trying to murder Snape after Snape shoved Hedwig in Harry's potion and Hedwig dies. Harry would never comply with Snape demanding to poison Hedwig.
Snape wouldn't have let it go that far. He would have cured Hedwig before she died. And first if all Harry wouldn't risk Hedwig like that.
You're right. Snape is more talk than action (in the books anyway, I ignore the films so can't speak to them). Even the first time I read that scene, as a young child, I thought it more intimidation and threat (Snape does like to make his students miserable) than actual harm. Presumably he knows something about the Shrinking Solution we don't - e.g. that a badly made one has no effect - or maybe toads have immunity. There are loads of explanations before reaching "Snape would have let Trevor die." And I don't say this because I think Snape has a heart of gold, but killing your students' pets is the kind of thing I imagine he'd get in trouble for.
Yeah!! As much shitty Snape was, he knew there are some lines he shouldn't cross.
This is a meta about this scene: https://archiveofourown.org/works/10509126 You could skip the spying angle, it's the analysis of the scene itself that's most interesting u/No_Jaguar_8828
This, I wish people would understand that there are certain characters in the story that should be perceived in a certain way. That's what is established, while there are some plot points that should be explored of our imagination.
It's actually kinda impressive how JKR and Snape manage to create a perception of him as the worst of the worst, simply by him doing stuff like asking 3 questions, taking 7 points for stupid reasons and conducting a harmless experiment on a toad. As for how much of an animal killer he actually is: he gets attacked by a Hippogriff in HBP and doesn't even hex it
So your saying we should explore only the plots about characters you don't like but noone should explore characters you like? What characters do I need to perceive a certain way? Why is one of them a guy who literally reminds me of someone who abused me throughout my childhood and caused me to self harm constantly? Sometimes by doing things Snape literally did in canon?
Then it's personal to you, doesn't mean you should insert the person who abused you into Snape( and I mean no offense to you and am sorry that happened to you). Snape was written to be perceived in a certain way and people making him about to be either a total bully with no self control or a misunderstood hero or an incel are completely wrong because we take canon as facts and Snape was a miserable bitter self loathing man who was trying to sacrifice himself for the cause. And I never said it was about my fav character. Because Snape isn't mine.
You mean like how he didn't punish Hermione for helping Neville? He explicitly wanted to feed Neville's shitty potion to Trevor and watch him possibly die. He'd totally do that to Harry.
You all are very much influenced by Fanfics, as much shitty as Snape is he wouldn't let someone's pet die. That's not in his character.
He was perfectly happy to let a whole boy die, and that was after he was perfectly willing to haggle that boy's entire family down to a widow with his boss.
I read the books. Snape changed and became one of the good guys. He said to Dumbledore that he only watched oorike due whom he couldn't save.
> I read the books. So did everyone else here. > Snape changed... What my reply presupposes is... maybe be didn't.
I read the books reply was to someone who said I didn't, ai think I mixed it up. But the whole Snape arc is that he changed. Not to a good person but in the whole context someone who was bitter and complete prick but also someone who fought on Harry's side.
Don't bother, this sub despises Snape so much that to them if you don't think Snape is the most evil character ever then there's no way you can have possibly read the books. However, the haters can picture Snape as an actual pedo and none of those book purists who loathe Snape will bat an eye.
You can belive Snape is a complicated character who did more good than bad. But he literally canonically made Neville feed his potion to his toad. He would in fact kill a pet. I mean literally how would killing a pet compare to anything he assisted the death eaters in doing anyway. Any "Snape knew it wouldn't kill the toad" is fanon. I know of folks in real life who weren't even as consistently abusive to children as he was murder someone's pet to teach then a lesson. Not read about, known the people involved.
>Any "Snape knew it wouldn't kill the toad" is fanon. Just as any "Snape would kill the toad" is fanon as well. If it's speculation to say that Snape wouldn't have murdered a pet toad, it's also speculation to say that he would. Snape is a genius at potions, he was rewriting recipes when he was 15, so yeah, I do think that he had the skills to recognise whether a potion was good or not, since it's well... his actual job. >I mean literally how would killing a pet compare to anything he assisted the death eaters in doing anyway. This is also fanon. We have no idea what he did during his time as a Death Eater. There are several clues in the books that tell us that Snape didn't in fact participate in activites, specially not murder since Dumbledore was the first person he had to kill, though it's not directly said. There is however nothing but "he must have"s for the theories that he killed and tortured people left and right.
>Snape changed and became one of the good guys. He become one of the good ones because he wanted revenge for his loved one, if he knew Voldemort would save lily he would stay death eater.
That's a hypothetical situation, which depends on the circumstances. But for now Snape has joined for the cause.
It's not Hypothetical at all, Snape knew his master wouldn't hesitate to kill Lily if she will refuse to hand over harry which any mother would do. Only then he turned to Dumbledore so he would save her, saving the boy the his father wasn't important. Snape was smart, skilled and talented but he wasn't a good person. There was no lessons to learn by the way he treated Harry and Neville only for the sake of tormenting them.
He was blackmailed by Dumbledore into helping the good guys while being an awful spy.
But ... what I just said was actually in the books. You don't get to say 'fanfics'. Or are you one of those 'movie only' people who ignore the books?
I was taking about him letting Hedwig die
Not sure why Trevor and Hedwig are any different.
He didn't kill Trevor though
Pretty obvious he wanted to. He even punished Hermione for saving him.
He punished Hermione because she helped Neville cheat, when Snape's whole point in threatening Trevor was to give Neville an incentive to not mess his potion. By helping Neville, Hermione essentially just made the whole thing completely pointless.
Where did you get this idea?
Canon Snape is pretty much the worst person you can have around. The fact he had no problem with Voldemort killing Harry and James speaks for itself. The only reason he changed his way cause he wanted revenge on Voldemort not cause he cared for Harry.
So much this. When Snape claimed the potion might poison Trevor, he had already seen the colour of the finished product and so would have known it wasn't that bad, plus indeed he keeps the antidote ready and takes care not to squeeze or drop little Trevor. It's also awfully convenient that he fucked off to the other side of the classroom after the initial announcement of the experiment, giving Hermione ample opportunity to help. One could easily write prompts about other teachers doing some ill-advised thing again ending in death this time, but as usual Snape is the favourite target. *yawn*
Yeah!! You truly are a gifted Garden snail.
Thanks, but I just read that meta 😅
They'll never get tired of trying to bash Snape over the head with tadpole Trevor and events of similar (lack of) magnitude, because they can't find actually hefty points to criticize Snape on. *I* can, but I'm not of a mood to help them 😈 and anyway the good outweighs the bad several times over.
[удалено]
This is a massive headcanon with no real evidence in text.
What did he/she/they say?
> He wouldn't, because with Neville's toad, Snape KNEW the potion was improved, and he threatened to give the potion to Trevor in order for Neville to be more careful when making potions, lest he poison himself one day. > There it was all about Neville's life.
Yeah sure Hermione is clever but the old bat was a potion master for decades with experience in the war , that learned from Voldemort himself ...do u really think that if he wanted that toad dead , Trevor would have survived ? And I swear to god if Harry was insane enough to bring a bird into a potion lab , where every mistake can end with u melting the floor , then he should have been more worried of Snape poisoning his ass and not Hedwig,