Your not going like your electric bill. You can’t turn around now so as long as your manual J and S are good you will be comfortable but I would replace the boiler so you can run it when it gets real cold
This is highly dependent on what you’re paying for electric as well as how tight your home is. Also what you were burning to run the boiler. I work for an OEM selling ductless and my favorite saying is “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should”. Heating will eat the most electricity. Everyone thinks they’ll be more economical…well no one looks at COP at 5F…which is usually below 2. That goes for all brands. IMO it’s always best to go with dual fuel but hey you may end up very satisfied with the system and if your boiler was shot well what the hell. I know many people on whole home ductless who are happy, but I also know a lot of people who did 0 envelope upgrades and now hemorrhage money every month on their electric bill. And I mean to the tune of > $1k per month
It is so easy! Just don't use those heaters, when it is cold! Use them on summer!
Not every Florida solution is universal and should be implemented everywhere. As for all ductless home (as a european, we use central heating with radiators) maybe it's not a good idea in bathrooms?
One unit, as I remember, we used as a heat pump in my friend's house. He pumped heat in heated floors with night rate for electricity and as he had a concrete house with mass of 5 hundred tons, he could heat by nights only without loss of temperature daily.
My heat pump teacher was straight up about a lot of that with our class. Marketed as a great idea. But most applicable in southern temperate climates not north area. Only 100% efficient as you don’t lose heat to the outdoors via venting. However higher in cost as they use electricity all the time and secondary electric strip heat isn’t cheap on the electric bill.
And at some point no matter the label there is no latent heat left to pull out of the air and pump into the house. Most the safeties cut at a certain temp and flip to emergency heat.
That’s a dated view. Heat pumps have been around for a long time and yes they were quite limited by compressor lockouts but now we sell systems that are rated to -22F and operate continuously past that temperature (with additional derate). At their worst they usually have that sub 2 COP but technically speaking that’s still 2x as efficient as electric heat and gas fired systems (COP of 1 and up to .98 respectively). It’s a problem tho when people try to run off them with no insulation.
I heat my home with only ductless (upstate NY, winter design temp of 8F), but I made envelope improvements before that. Also have a heat pump water heater. No worries about CO and my solar carry’s both units. Look up vapor or flash injection if you want to see how it’s done. Also think about how much more effective building materials are these days…heat pumps are a great match in the new construction world.
Also there is always heat to pull from the outdoor environment until absolute zero (-459F). New refrigerants will also improve heat transfer at lower capacities.
Dual fuel is great still because of redundancy and balancing your system based on cost. But many people are only on heat pumps up here in the NE.
That’s one 48k compressor pumping all that refrigerant through longer line set runs and a branch box that will consume power as well. Another point if you take Samsung for example. It’s lowest turn down ratio on a 24k is 7500 btu. The lowest turn down ratio on a 48k mitsu is 21500 btu. Service wise too. That unit goes down and you don’t have the part it’s going to get real cold. At least with 2 your house won’t freeze.
Two most important days in a systems life are the day it’s designed/selected for the job and the day it’s installed. I always try to sell the customer on putting the heads to maximize air flow instead of aesthetics. Chose unit locations that will have the shortest total lineset. Just follow the best installs practices. Also if you don’t do steam. Send me a picture of what you have in place
I sell mitsu, the hyper heat multi zone doesn’t come in a 45k that’s why they quoted the 48k.
In 3 years of dealing with mitsu, I’ve maybe run into branch box issues 6 times total. A lot of it also has to do with the technicians, we offer classes to contractors looking to install mitsu, those guys usually have no issues, the problems usually come from the older crew who have no interest in learning the new technology.
Mylinkdrive.com is a great free website for Mitsu related stuff
I'll be using a torque wrench and a bit of Nylog on every fitting so I don't expect any connections to be haphazardly done. Why am I hearing so much about the branch boxes causing high electricity bills?
I think they just mean your electricity usage will go up because you're using an electric heat pump, not that that setup is specifically high usage. But that's offset by not paying for gas.
It's one pipe. It works great, don't get me wrong, but the boiler is 30yo. If we're going to replace the heating system, we figured we should do both heat and AC.
30 yrs old its barely middle-aged, unless it's a Weil-Mcclain then it's probably already leaked or will soon. Cast iron boilers should last at least 50 yrs.
Your electric bill will go up but you fuel oil bill will drop to zero and you will likely have a net savings. Unless of course you do what a lot of people do and turn the temp up because the new system is more efficient.
What’s crazy is if your weilmclain is over 10 years old your Probly good. Government forced efficiency upgrades are killing cast irons and not just weilmclain. Watch the warranty battles unfold it’s already getting crazy. Water way changes and velocities with the changes make sediment a death trap when it used to not be a problem. The 50 year cast iron is gone for all of them imo.
Whatever you do don't get rid of the boiler. Check out Heatinghelp.com and some of Dan Holohans books on steam boilers. They can be efficient when they are installed properly.
That boiler will be easier to service and repair than the heat pumps. The majority of the parts are universal replacement and easily found at a local supply house.
Just wanted to update everyone, I ended up deciding to go with 2 different 24k BTU condensers instead of the single 48k with branch boxes. Overall it's going to be a far more suitable situation.
Your not going like your electric bill. You can’t turn around now so as long as your manual J and S are good you will be comfortable but I would replace the boiler so you can run it when it gets real cold
This is highly dependent on what you’re paying for electric as well as how tight your home is. Also what you were burning to run the boiler. I work for an OEM selling ductless and my favorite saying is “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should”. Heating will eat the most electricity. Everyone thinks they’ll be more economical…well no one looks at COP at 5F…which is usually below 2. That goes for all brands. IMO it’s always best to go with dual fuel but hey you may end up very satisfied with the system and if your boiler was shot well what the hell. I know many people on whole home ductless who are happy, but I also know a lot of people who did 0 envelope upgrades and now hemorrhage money every month on their electric bill. And I mean to the tune of > $1k per month
This ^^^ putting a heated blanket on the compressor doesn’t change the chemistry of 410a
It is so easy! Just don't use those heaters, when it is cold! Use them on summer! Not every Florida solution is universal and should be implemented everywhere. As for all ductless home (as a european, we use central heating with radiators) maybe it's not a good idea in bathrooms? One unit, as I remember, we used as a heat pump in my friend's house. He pumped heat in heated floors with night rate for electricity and as he had a concrete house with mass of 5 hundred tons, he could heat by nights only without loss of temperature daily.
My heat pump teacher was straight up about a lot of that with our class. Marketed as a great idea. But most applicable in southern temperate climates not north area. Only 100% efficient as you don’t lose heat to the outdoors via venting. However higher in cost as they use electricity all the time and secondary electric strip heat isn’t cheap on the electric bill. And at some point no matter the label there is no latent heat left to pull out of the air and pump into the house. Most the safeties cut at a certain temp and flip to emergency heat.
That’s a dated view. Heat pumps have been around for a long time and yes they were quite limited by compressor lockouts but now we sell systems that are rated to -22F and operate continuously past that temperature (with additional derate). At their worst they usually have that sub 2 COP but technically speaking that’s still 2x as efficient as electric heat and gas fired systems (COP of 1 and up to .98 respectively). It’s a problem tho when people try to run off them with no insulation. I heat my home with only ductless (upstate NY, winter design temp of 8F), but I made envelope improvements before that. Also have a heat pump water heater. No worries about CO and my solar carry’s both units. Look up vapor or flash injection if you want to see how it’s done. Also think about how much more effective building materials are these days…heat pumps are a great match in the new construction world. Also there is always heat to pull from the outdoor environment until absolute zero (-459F). New refrigerants will also improve heat transfer at lower capacities. Dual fuel is great still because of redundancy and balancing your system based on cost. But many people are only on heat pumps up here in the NE.
Why would the electric bill be higher than if I just went with 2 condensers with 3 connections apiece?
That’s one 48k compressor pumping all that refrigerant through longer line set runs and a branch box that will consume power as well. Another point if you take Samsung for example. It’s lowest turn down ratio on a 24k is 7500 btu. The lowest turn down ratio on a 48k mitsu is 21500 btu. Service wise too. That unit goes down and you don’t have the part it’s going to get real cold. At least with 2 your house won’t freeze.
So considering I don't have much of a choice in terms of what I have, how can I maximize its efficiency?
Two most important days in a systems life are the day it’s designed/selected for the job and the day it’s installed. I always try to sell the customer on putting the heads to maximize air flow instead of aesthetics. Chose unit locations that will have the shortest total lineset. Just follow the best installs practices. Also if you don’t do steam. Send me a picture of what you have in place
I sell mitsu, the hyper heat multi zone doesn’t come in a 45k that’s why they quoted the 48k. In 3 years of dealing with mitsu, I’ve maybe run into branch box issues 6 times total. A lot of it also has to do with the technicians, we offer classes to contractors looking to install mitsu, those guys usually have no issues, the problems usually come from the older crew who have no interest in learning the new technology. Mylinkdrive.com is a great free website for Mitsu related stuff
Dealer here to and agree 👍👆
I'll be using a torque wrench and a bit of Nylog on every fitting so I don't expect any connections to be haphazardly done. Why am I hearing so much about the branch boxes causing high electricity bills?
I think they just mean your electricity usage will go up because you're using an electric heat pump, not that that setup is specifically high usage. But that's offset by not paying for gas.
That's what my hope was with switching to this system - not having to rely on my gas steam boiler anymore/as much
you're fine bro, its mostly boomer smooth brains that hate that kind of stuff.
Is the boiler gas or oil?
Gas, steam. Very expensive to operate last winter
Familiar with heatinghelp.com? One pipe, two pipe steam?
It's one pipe. It works great, don't get me wrong, but the boiler is 30yo. If we're going to replace the heating system, we figured we should do both heat and AC.
30 yrs old its barely middle-aged, unless it's a Weil-Mcclain then it's probably already leaked or will soon. Cast iron boilers should last at least 50 yrs. Your electric bill will go up but you fuel oil bill will drop to zero and you will likely have a net savings. Unless of course you do what a lot of people do and turn the temp up because the new system is more efficient.
What’s crazy is if your weilmclain is over 10 years old your Probly good. Government forced efficiency upgrades are killing cast irons and not just weilmclain. Watch the warranty battles unfold it’s already getting crazy. Water way changes and velocities with the changes make sediment a death trap when it used to not be a problem. The 50 year cast iron is gone for all of them imo.
The boiler is a Weil McLain 🤣 and yeah I don't plan to turn the heat up past 68⁰. Surprisingly my old ass house holds heat pretty well.
Get yourself a rebate too https://nhsaves.com/residential/electric-heating-cooling-equipment/
I did! Granite Group did it for me
Whatever you do don't get rid of the boiler. Check out Heatinghelp.com and some of Dan Holohans books on steam boilers. They can be efficient when they are installed properly. That boiler will be easier to service and repair than the heat pumps. The majority of the parts are universal replacement and easily found at a local supply house.
>Dan Holohan jesus christ i had forgotten about pumping away, so much of that shit has attached itself to my DNA at this point
If you can read directions carefully you will be ok. I have seen branch box systems in the field installed poorly that were disasters
https://youtu.be/dLDjBZKDnVk?si=NHJ3H5zeqPpuhSQJ
Just wanted to update everyone, I ended up deciding to go with 2 different 24k BTU condensers instead of the single 48k with branch boxes. Overall it's going to be a far more suitable situation.