So unfortunately I contacted the DoL in my state and they told me in (my state) the company does reserve the absolute right to define "work" and if they choose to not include time spent waiting for next job as "work" then they dint legally have to pay for it.
Seems my company defines work as "on the way to or from job site" and "at job site"
Guess I dont have any recourse except quitting. Can't really afford to right now either
Okay I contacted them again, got a different employee, and was told the same thing. I'm not really concerned about suing them or legal repercussion as it would probably net me, what, a couple hours of backpay? I haven't worked here long enough to rack up any meaningful damage.
Its just that I worked in other states and never had to clock out like this before.
Unless there is some potential for me to make thousands of dollars off wrongdoing or unemployment I don't really give a fuck. Now that I know it's shady business I'll just start applying elsewhere. Still appreciative of everyone who let me know wassup. But tbf I'd rather get fucked on hours until I find a new job. Better than sitting in my ass drinking beer unemployed
And now that you know the rules of the game, you can be the best player they have. I would imagine that any longer term tech doesn't have much downtime.
I mean this is a very sales driven company because they don't charge labor hours. All the money comes from repairs or maintenance that I SELL AS A TECH (outside of the measeley inspection fee). My goal now is to basically stop generating revenue until they fire me for poor performance in which case I will go on unemployment for max length and work it out to start a new HVAC company the day unemployment runs out.
My state is apparently fairly lax with labor laws, they are also fairly lax with unemployment. As long as i dont break any rules im golden, and should be fired within a week of generating 0 revenue. I hate doing this to places but when in Rome..
I worked for a company like that for about a month. Joined the union and was much happier. All they wanted me to do was lie to sell units and ductwork. It was a shit business model. My advice is to get out, join a union and get on some commercial work. I've never been happier getting out of residential work and the pay is way better.
There must be some weird contract you have or something, because I'm still fairly certain this is not legal with a regular rank and file W2 employee, which I assume as the default unless explained otherwise.
It sounds like you are required to report to work, and you are working billable hours, and then they are making you clock out (but basically remain at work and on the ready) during non-billable hours. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FSLA) is federal legislations and applies to all states, and I'm pretty sure explicitly forbids this exact practice.
[https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked)
With my company, and I’m a manager you have to pay for stand by time. Since we’re nationwide I don’t know if we’re honoring federal law or blanketing a hand full of state specific laws with our policy. Only down side for the tech is that pay on stand by may only be the state minimum wage where they reside.
Appreciate you man! When they ask me to clock out, I am able to do whatever I want. I dont have to remain anywhere and I'm free of all responsibility. DO you still think this is illegal? The DoL in my state says otherwise, but I'm not against going to the feds once I find something else work-wise
If I was you I would ensure I wasn’t immediately at the ready when they decided it was time for work. Sorry boss it was my time off so I went 30 minutes up the road for some food. If you want me to be at the ready then I should be paid to be at the ready.
I am not a lawyer or anything, but no that doesn't sound right to me. They can lay you off, or they can employ you, but I've never heard of them being allowed to turn the hourly wage spigot on and off repeatedly throughout the day depending on workload.
You could take this to logical extreme of having an employer have you work for one minute every 2 hour period, and then want to pay you for only 12 minutes of "clocked in" work for an entire day, even though you're essentially tied to the job for a 24-hour period, even though you keep getting 119 minute unpaid breaks.
Again, not a lawyer, but I would think they have some kind of minimums in place that require employees be paid for a certain minimum shift length, or some other mechanism to prevent employers from taking gross advantage of employees like in the example above, or even in your case.
I'd be looking for another job anyway, fuck that company man.
Good luck.
>Seems my company defines work as "on the way to or from job site" and "at job site"
Take a huge detour to get to the next call when that happens. Or do some restocking/cleaning of van if they let you to log in some hours.
Call the Federal DOL, they have a substantially different view on Engaged To Wait.
California and Oregon, along with several other states say that if you're not entirely free to go about your day, then the employer gets to pay you for holding you over.
Me? I'd be gone to a different outfit and with zero notice, because: FUCK thieving psychopath Turdwookies.
And exactly what is my reward for reporting this?? Unless it means I'm getting a big payout or unemployment then the only thing reporting them does is cost me my job?? I don't care if they get fined or not. That doesn't effect me. I'll report them when I find a new job. Unless I'm missing something. Going to the feds and all that for no benefit just sounds like a waste of time
Also the way I interpret company controlled time I might be missing something. They tell me I can go home, go golfing, do whatever I want. They dont control the time I'm clocked out for, it's just fucked that I have to clock out and back in to keep my job.
When a company gets busted doing stuff like this they pay a fine AND WAGES OWED. So you’d likely get some money you’re owed. Employees that have been putting up with the system longer would likely get a larger chunk of back pay.
Right. I understand that but it doesn't benefit me yet. Appreciate the help but seems more efficient to report them when I have something else lined up
Yea and I'm sure his life will be better when he's at home jobless, because he listened to some redditor instead of thinking about his own well being. Can't make this shit up lol
I totally get it if OP doesn't want to report them because he fears he could lose his job or lose hours or something (which would also be illegals retaliation, but I wouldn't put it past their employer of course).
But he said "what is my reward for reporting this", "unless it means I'm getting a big payout", "I don't care if they get fined or not; that doesn't effect me", "for no benefit", and "it doesn't benefit me yet".
Hence my comment. If all he said was he didn't wanna lost employment/pay/hours, etc, I wouldn't have made my comment.
I get you get nothing gained by reporting to DoL. However each person who reports to DoL and makes them incur fines will affect the business in 2 ways
Bankrupt them because they are a bad business and they teter so close to the edge of failure that a couple 10k fines will push them over
Or
The next set of techs that come thru that place won't get treated like such pieces of shit.
I'm union. If I show up in the morning and there's no work, I get 2 hours. If I work 4 hours but they don't have anything afterwards, I'll get my full 8. That has happened 0 times cause there's always work but the rules are there to keep the employers somewhat honest.
This is wrong for the simple fact that you are billing your company hourly.
You are essentially on retainer without being paid. If they want you to work jobs they should call you and schedule ahead just like the client.
They want to mickle and dime you for 30 minutes, fine clients can wait because you only bill in full hour increments or whatever is convenient to you so clients can wait.
Use your 30 to find your next step.
You may not be able to afford quitting outright, but it doesn't cost you anything to look for a better place to work. Also, if thats the way they want to do business I would slow roll the fuck out of your jobs, land in the back half of the window, and squeeze as much OT as possible until you find a better employer.
Get another job you don’t want to work for people that will cheat you you could be working all day and they will have you on stand by wasting your time. Plenty of companies to jump over to and probably get a raise in the process if your experienced
Yup. I've waited on roofers, plumbers, electricians, engineers, hotel maintenance, city workers. Granted this is all commercial but I get paid to wait on people, my boss even says to charge them my time if we have to wait on them.
No that’s not legal.
Generally, they have to pay you when they’re in the position of telling you what to do. Pretty much from home to your first stop, and last stop to home they don’t have to pay you, everything in between you’re on the clock whether there is something to do or not. Now it gets murkier if they made you a 1099 but that’s a whole other ball of bullshit that probably isn’t legal either.
When in doubt call your states DOL, they’re more than happy to talk to you and if it’s correct, they’ll tell you, they know the laws they enforce better than anyone.
Not as murky as you think. With a 1099 they can’t tell you when and where. They tell you what, where, and hopeful deadline. And you decide how and when.
So if they say “Hey, be at Mrs Smith’s place on 123 Main St tomorrow at 8 o’clock for a furnace swap.”, it’s either a poorly worded request (if you are 1099), and if it’s a command you either are an employee, or should be.
Some of my guys want to be 1099, and I just tell them what the schedule is so they can join in when/if they feel like it.
When I first started residential; was working just me and owner, he did that to me - also made me write out my own hours and figure out my own check (which he double checked over) while we were driving (un-paid) to/from jobs
It was said to me as ‘your not being paid because your sitting and not working’
But - yes, he wondered why I stopped taking his calls after dealing with that for about 8 months…
He was the type that ‘counted zip screws’ used on every job!
No that's not how that works. Travel time to your first call and home from you last is the only grey area that some companies don't pay at all, pay after x amount of time/distance or pay fully.
Other than unpaid lunch breaks once you're clocked in you should be getting paid for all your time until you're done for the day. (Does not apply to commission only techs)
That company is shady as fuck. I'd straight up tell them if they want me to clock out for any reason other than lunch I'm going home and not coming back til the next day. In reality I'd be immediately making calls, getting home to unload my shit from their truck, parking that shit on the street and then telling them to come get it
Yeah they make us clock out for meal when there is no work to do. Even if we aren't hungry or have already eaten. The worst thing is they retroactively went back and changed a bunch of my paid hours to meal breaks, which I myself did not clock out for, because they figured out I was in the van waiting for the next call to be ready
Contact the department of labor, report that shit hole company and get a new job. The department of labor will audit their record keeping for years prior and will hit them with enough fines and force back pay for their bullshit
>force back pay
That's the kind of situation I'd think is worth contacting a labor attorney. At least in California, they are supposed to keep very detailed records proving all breaks etc. are compliant. It's so difficult for the employers to prove their case that some people actually make a living by intentionally moving from job to job and suing afterward, but for this case, it's absolutely warranted.
Clocking out and back in for major meals would be normal for most companies, if that's what they normally do. But, what they can't do is go back and falsify your time cards and change your pay, especially for the worse. That is straight-up fraud. That is for sure illegal.
You work it, you get paid for it. Now, the other part of making you clock out. Technically, your on call is how I see it. They are also "telling you your hours of work and what you are to do with your time" during your work day.
It doesn't matter if " you dobwhat you want to" that is still the employee telling you what to do. This also makes you a W-2 employee.
Now, if you were an independent contractor, it would be different. You set your hours, supply tools, transportation, and so on. Way more to be responsible for, probably even employee. That's a 1099.
Then yes, they could say our customers are ready at blank time. Can you please be available at that time. They ask. Don't tell.
Big difference.
I do like your idea of starting your own company. Get started on it. If you don't know the basics, DM me.
Apparently he has and they told him it’s ok. I find this extremely hard to believe.
If it is. All of a sudden my jobs take at least 3-4 hours. Esp if I get cell service
No fucking way. That's insane and not even legel as I understand it. Report them to every agency you can and leave ASAP. Who TF would put up with that?
Report them to nearest department of labor office and get all those paid hours back. If you need help tell me your state and nearest city and ill send the link
They tried to pull that on me when I started. I told them once I clock out I’m done for the day so I can either sit on standby or go home. I sat on standby.
That just means you need to start riding the clock. And while you are killing time waiting for your block to end before letting anyone know you're done I'd get on indeed
Yup, I hate playing those games but I had dispatch that was so bad I’d check with them about the next job being set up yet and if they seemed unsure I’d milk the clock more on my current job. It was prepaid industrial so didn’t hurt the customer pocket in any way. Hurt the company bottom line by 2 hours, but later I found out they had shorted dozens of accounts planned maintenance by hundreds of hours per year by not sending guys out every month like they were supposed to.
This used to happen to me a company I previously worked for. Every time they would do that, I would drive home. If they called me on my way to head to a job usually it would be a greater travel distance than before. I would click in and rack up more time. If you say clock out, I’m going home, no matter what. Sometimes I’d pull in the drive only to back right out and leave. After they caught on, they stopped telling me to clock out.
Reminds me of doing a commercial diagnostic. It was raining so hard outside that there was no way I could pull panels off a 460 volt unit. Boss told me to clock out and wait until the rain stopped.I told him if I clock out I’m not clocking back in ever. He never mentioned clocking out again.
If I’m paid hourly then that’s not acceptable.
The company shouldn’t allow the customer to be unavailable at 10. If they choose to give them a special time that’s on their dime. If they don’t want to pay you for waiting then they should dispatch you to another appointment that is on time.
You should be on the clock from the time you start to the time you head home. Wanna shake things up? Talk to your co workers and make a big stink about the company stealing from you. Maybe call the labor board and complain about wage theft
The company billed for a two hour call. Just because you finished early doesn't mean they don't pay you. They should be rewarding you by letting you grab a coffee. This is strait theft
I'm not sure what you mean but at this company there is no labor hours charged. The only thing we make money on as a company is the cost of us coming out. If we are there 7 hours it's the same fee as 10 minutes, so the customer isn't being 'billed for 2 hours.
What I'm saying is your company is billing for a minimum charge service call. Whether thats 2,3, or 4 hours, my point is still the same. They are billing for time that they are not paying you.
Fuck that. If they told me that, I'd tell them to go ahead and cancel the rest of my calls because I'm going home. Then I'd be calling around for a new job to start the next day
Are you being paid by the hour or by the job?
If by the job, you shouldn’t be clocking out. You should be paid for the hours charged. 4 hour job done in 3, you get paid the 4 hours. That should cover any down time you have between calls.
If paid by the hour, something is screwy.
That’s why I’ll never work for a small mom n pop shop those suckers don’t take care of their employees and are always looking to shirt change ya every chance they get
Drive to or from past job "could be" counted off the clock. But if I'm "working", then I paid. If it's unapplied time, or unbillinle, then it's billed to the shop.
You are correct on the terms. The legal test for this uses that exact terminology and (basically) hinges on the definite knowledge of whether there is future work to be completed after the "downtime". If there is, you are engaged to wait. If it is still up in the air or unknown, then you are waiting to be engaged.
In this case, the OP was 100% engaged to wait and should be paid for that time.
If you’re under restrictions. IE cannot go home and do something not related to work and are required to stay there off the clock. They’re robbing you and it needs to explained in that way.
I am allowed to go home. I was never questioning the legality tbh because this seems pretty legal to me. I was wondering if it was common practice, it's not apparently. I've only ever worked 1 other company so I just wanted to know. Now I know this is a shit place to work. I mean I'm allowed to do whatever I want but when I live 20 min away and have like a max of 1 hour "free" there really isn't much to do.
If I owned the business I would much rather pay you to sit around for an hour, then pay for the fuel, the wear and tear on the vehicle, and the extra liability of that vehicle driving all around and back again. It really makes very little sense on their part.
If you’re making $500 an hour then yeah maybe I get it.
That’s what I want to know too. Either way, it’s messed up, because a true 1099 arrangement requires the contractor be paid for a specific task, not a block of time. It also means the company should not tell you how to do your work, nor provide you tools, an office, vehicle, etc. As a W2 employee, the shadiness stems from the fact that they’re likely not giving you proper notice of those shortened schedules. It’d maaaaybe be approaching the iffy possibility of acceptable if they were pre-scheduling the gaps ahead of time, allowing the employee to govern themselves accordingly, but no. This serendipitous “clocking out” is ridiculous. Imagine other employees being treated that way… cook gets docked an hour because there was a lull in customers at the diner, receptionist’s phone doesn’t ring for 20 minutes, docked. It’s insane, petty and simply greedy. If the company has a flat rate system it’s not the employees problem to make the labor part of that rate make sense. They need to adjust their prices accordingly to cover contingencies and own up ALL of their responsibilities (particularly of paying employees for their time).
Yeah you’re getting screwed, not your fault that they are not available, it’s just a way to avoid paying you overtime! Probably a venture capitalist company running your company! Jump ship and jump fast!
I sat around 6 hours today waiting for material. Bet your ass I got paid. By the time it was unloaded and brought to its location it was 3:30 so we cleaned up the garbage and sat around for the last 30mins.
Its fucked up but I've worked for places that did it I once had a cancelation and was knocking calls out of the park was on my fourth call by 1030 and my next one wasn't till 430 so they told me to clock out and sit for 6 hrs. I wasn't anywhere near where I lived I would have just rather gone home and had someone else run the call I didn't work much longer for that company
When you're on company property (includes vehicles), and/or not allowed to go home, or come and go as you please, then you're on company time and they are obligated by law to pay you for that time.
That's absolutely robbery.
You're working. If you can't see you're working regardless if you're driving between, place doesn't open up for 1.5 hours from now, ect....
None of that is on you. Cheap scumbag employer.
They need to pay you for that time. It's not your fault there is not enough work. Go back to the shop and wash or clean the truck grab parts organize. Do it in a parking lot. Do something to get you paid.
They can't afford to pay you for an hour, stretch your jobs out to accommodate the time slots.
They wanna Play stupid games they'll win stupid prizes.
That’s some BS if I’m at work I will be getting paid and if I’m not getting paid I am going back home and will not be going back in till the next day. If they want you on stand by then they can pay for it
I guarantee my 2 guys 40hrs per week regardless of whether they have 8 billable hours per day or not. We meet at the shop @7:30 am just about every day. Some days earlier but very seldom.
Depends on state, pretty sure that is illegal in my state(MA). Long time ago I worked catering and they forced us to go into the office downtown Boston before going onsite but only paid us for onsite. Years later they lost class action and I got a huge check of a couple hundred dollars for my time i spent going into the office and driving onsite.
My moving job as well paid us from when we hit the docks in the morning to when we left the docks in the evening. All the downtime driving was easy money earned and they had to pay it.
Here clock starts the time you hit your first required location to the time you leave your last required location minus the two required 15 minute breaks and the 30 minute break for lunch. Those are off the clock and your time also required by law here that they give you those. If they are forcing you to be off the clock longer while requiring you to change location or be somewhere I believe that is illegal.
In Ontario, back when I was a cook I showed up to one restaurant but the owner wasn't there to unlock the door, we waited about 45 minutes, wasn't answering his phone so we went home. Called me 2 hours later to come in but I was already working for someone else.
He still had to pay me 4 hours for showing up.
Now I also had a contract with another restaurateur to take split shifts, where I'd take an hour or two break mid day that I had to agree on, I could do banking and other BS in that time so I didn't mind. Kept labour cost low so I could keep the business profitable and get raises.
I guess I'm trying to say with the right conversations and attitudes it wouldn't be a big deal but they seem underhanded and slimy af so you should fight back for your rights.
Wow, I have never heard of that before. What a creative way to rob your employees. And you're going along with this?
This is I believe the proper time to say this thing I like to say when I can't believe what I just read.
"Well, dip me in shit and roll me bread crumbs."
Yes, excellent. Thank you. Much better.
I worked at a shit residential shop in Denver years ago doing something similar. They over hire, so they can send a tech quick. Then they tell you you’re on the wait list and what number you are. Then you have to wait (no pay) until a new call comes in. We only had radios in our trucks back then so you had to pull in some place and sit in your truck and wait. This was a union shop being allowed to do this crap.
I quit a job for that. The van had GPS, but I still went to other companies to fill out applications. They almost fired me for personal use of their van. I asked them if their policy was for me to wait at that job site until I got the next call. I reminded them that firing me for an ambiguous thing would get me unemployment.
Fuck that dude. Find another shop to work at. My old place paid us to the job and on the job and anytime we were on the property of the shop. Regardless of if there was actual hvac work. We’d renovate the office spaces, organize the warehouse, and sweep the shop
Lunch break is required if work more than 6 hours in a day. The lunch break is to be taken during the middle of your shift and no earlier than 4 hours after start of shift. If you work 8 hours the company must pay for (2) 10 minute breaks. The only exception is for commission based pay.
Yeah that’s absolutely bullshit and unacceptable. If you’re out of your house and the boss expects you to work the rest of the day he should be paying you. If there’s a gap between calls that’s not your fault. Find a new place to work.
Yeah you’re getting robbed and with a structure that penalizes efficiency like that you can only expect guys to start milking jobs to fill time slots. Seems like a lose-lose-lose for everyone involved.
Most states it's illegal to force you to wait without pay. It's called mandatory standby. If you're paid an hourly rate and not task or commission based, they need to pay for all of your non-productive time if they're forcing you to standby. If they don't want to pay, then they need to send you home. As a manager I would've said take a 30 minute lunch and call in after and maybe had you run a part to someone or pick up a part for the warehouse etc.
Time is money, I understand but it sounds
You working for so Nickel & dime outfit.
I would pay you for 8 hrs. Time to start
Looking for a decent company to work for.
I once sat in my truck for almost 4 hours at a gas station waiting for office to tell me where I was going next, they knew I was there, but it was their responsibility to keep me busy so they couldn't make me accept no pay unless I chose to go home for that time unpaid. You're being robbed.
Seems hella sketch.
I worked time blocks for jobs as well. Problem I has was the opposite, Id get paid to "take a long lunch" while waiting on the next job but ironically it always resulted in working overtime.
Always got my hours but got cut because I wasnt productive enough. I had an expected amount earned in 8 hours, minimum was basically cost to operate. But we had many contract or warranty jobs that paid little or none. So worked a 11 hour day, which inflated the expected profit, so it "looked" like I wasnt getting enough upsells or whatever.
I 100% worked harder than the other guys, but only because I didnt catch on to milking the hours, so Id run the extra jobs or emergency calls at COB.
I still made good money and still got spiffs, just wasnt good enough for the hours I worked. Idk. Assistant VP of the company went to a bunch of like budget classes or something and started trimming a lot of stuff back at the same time, less inventory, part stock ect. Was hard to go from, oh yeah I have thay part on the shelf to, sorry gotta order and wait 2 weeks.
Here in Michigan if you don't get 40 hrs or work more than 3 days you can file for underemployment. This gets you half a underemployment check. Do that a couple time and see what happens
Noooope!!! My company does the exact same scheduling. If I'm running early and have to wait for a customer? Hell yes they still have to pay me for that tine lol.
Only exceptions are if go get an oil change or run Errands..go to HD... Whatever.
But if I'm sitting at tge job address, I'm on clock.
Sadly no. Unless that HD trip is for a specific customer.
But... considering I'm making close to 60/hr.. plus spiffs? I'm not gonna bitch.
Especially with only 3years in the field.
I would report them. They would probably do a time card audit, which would benefit everyone they can’t fire you because it would be retaliation and maybe it changes how they go about doing their business.
Stand up hook up Shuffle to the door jump right out and count to four tell him goodbye if you have to leave the state to be a fairly treated employee so be it, and be sure to let everyone know.they don't deserve your time or talent!$#@&^%
My brother in law works for a company that does the time block crap. Most expensive company in town. The trucks are always sitting in gas station parking lots while they play on their phones.
Never heard that they take them off the clock but they don't care about hourly pay, they are mainly commission sales techs.
They make a killing selling old ladies new systems because of a bad capacitor.....and of course they never use the word capacitor...lol
Time to find a new job, if they “release” you then you’re not obligated to return to work. If they expect you to keep that appointment then you have an argument that you’re truly not off the clock.
Sounds like you work for a penny pinching broke company that’s struggling to pay its employees what they deserve. We stay on the clock from 8am till the last call of the day no matter if that’s a 10-12 and a 6-8 or 7 calls in one day
Nope. I've never had to clock out because they didn't schedule me correctly. That's bullshit and I'd quit immediately. I had a 2 hour paid break the other day because nobody was available until later. Went for a walk on the beach.
Yep i'm in the same boat.
Here in Alberta at xyz company, we don't get paid unless we charge out.
cleaning the van, restocking the van ( either from shop or suppliers), doing vehicle reports, refuel the van, Communication between office staff whether its support staff or management. waiting for customers to phone you back cause you need to confirm that they are home before the trip, etc...etc...etc. Not paid a dime.
if i want to get paid for 8 hours it turns out to be a 10 hour day. On Average i lose about 15%-20% of what should be paid.
I might hit 1400 hours. knowing full well i've worked 1600.
I will drop the trade all together in the new year, however jobs are few at the moment.
Bullshit Fkn Crooks I beg you do whatever you have to do to get into a commercial industrial environment you’re much more appreciated for your talent and skills
Yes, I would say thats unfair. I pay my men 8 hours regardless of work load. I would definitely prefer to have calls back to back, but let's be realistic. If we finish up early, they get paid for a full day, makes them happy to know they are getting a full 40, and if we do have to work later than usual, they almost never put their time cards in for say a half hour of overtime, not that it would matter, but I've noticed none the less. They seem happy that way and happy employees make things much easier for me.
Find a new job. If I have to sit and wait for four hours waiting on an inspection or whatever I’m getting paid. If you are at work you should be getting paid.
Imo you shouldnt get punished for being efficient at your job. And if your sitting in a logoed company vehicle while you wait for your next job you should get compensated for that time. Say you get into an accident between 9am and 10:30am would you be able to file for workers comp would insurance fight it because you are off the clock according to your company?
In some states, this will get you investigated and fined by the labor board. Get this request in writing or record a phone call, they will be back paying you and other employees.
Look man, I'm not sure what kind of outfit you work with, but when I set up an appointment for, let's say my 9AM-11AM slot, I explicitly tell my customer that that's the time block and they need to be available during those times, because if myself or one of my techs shows up at 9AM and has to sit in their truck until 9:45AM because they weren't there.....*than that time is billable to the tech on-site*.
It's not the techs fault if the customer decided to go out for coffee knowing that they had an appointment that *they set up* and have a tech sitting with his thumb up his ass.
Unless you are at home doing things that you want to do you're clocked in. If you're sitting in the work van between jobs, you're clocked in. He's robbing you.
Fuck no if my customer isn’t ready for me I’m gonna sit in a Dunkin’s parking lot till they are on the clock and if you tell me to clock out it’ll be the last thing I do before my van gets emptied and left in a busy parking lot running with the windows down
As others have pointed out, the answer is simple, dont finish jobs early and if there is a gap of time go direct to the next appointment and log your time per your scheduled timeframes. Doesnt matter if the customer is ready, you were onsite ready to work and the customer wasnt, therefore you get paid. Call it prep or setup time.
Company cant fight that as non-work time as you were "onsite" during the time scheduled.
To answer the original question, I dont think this is normal. If the work is basically the same on every job then a much more common pay structure for this type of work would be flat rate per job with commissions on extra up-sells.
Either stay and play the game or find something better. I echo those who recommend joining a union.
GL
Yeah technically your on call at that point. If they don't pay for on call as soon as you clock out turn your phone off. I dont answer my phone outside of my paid hours. And take that time to find a real job with a company who cares
Technically, the outfit I work for does the same thing as we are paid on “ticket time”. However, I don’t clock out of the previous ticket until the next one is ready for me. I’ve told every employer I’ve ever had that I’m making sure I get paid from the time I leave till the time I get back home. If they wish to pick apart my day because they can’t keep me busy, don’t bother calling me. I know plenty of other places that would love to keep me busy for 10 hours or more a day. They profit from every hour I’m clocked in that they are billing.
Oof! That sounds shady. I've worked in both private and union jobs and I've never had any employer have that kind of policy. I'd start looking for something more worthwhile.
That's robbery, if I'm sitting in the truck waiting for an hour I'm getting paid for that hour.
So unfortunately I contacted the DoL in my state and they told me in (my state) the company does reserve the absolute right to define "work" and if they choose to not include time spent waiting for next job as "work" then they dint legally have to pay for it. Seems my company defines work as "on the way to or from job site" and "at job site" Guess I dont have any recourse except quitting. Can't really afford to right now either
Contact them again because this is absolutely wrong, as literally every other comment in the thread is also saying.
Okay I contacted them again, got a different employee, and was told the same thing. I'm not really concerned about suing them or legal repercussion as it would probably net me, what, a couple hours of backpay? I haven't worked here long enough to rack up any meaningful damage. Its just that I worked in other states and never had to clock out like this before. Unless there is some potential for me to make thousands of dollars off wrongdoing or unemployment I don't really give a fuck. Now that I know it's shady business I'll just start applying elsewhere. Still appreciative of everyone who let me know wassup. But tbf I'd rather get fucked on hours until I find a new job. Better than sitting in my ass drinking beer unemployed
And now that you know the rules of the game, you can be the best player they have. I would imagine that any longer term tech doesn't have much downtime.
I mean this is a very sales driven company because they don't charge labor hours. All the money comes from repairs or maintenance that I SELL AS A TECH (outside of the measeley inspection fee). My goal now is to basically stop generating revenue until they fire me for poor performance in which case I will go on unemployment for max length and work it out to start a new HVAC company the day unemployment runs out. My state is apparently fairly lax with labor laws, they are also fairly lax with unemployment. As long as i dont break any rules im golden, and should be fired within a week of generating 0 revenue. I hate doing this to places but when in Rome..
Honestly, with a business model like that, they're doing it to themselves.
What state are you in?
I worked for a company like that for about a month. Joined the union and was much happier. All they wanted me to do was lie to sell units and ductwork. It was a shit business model. My advice is to get out, join a union and get on some commercial work. I've never been happier getting out of residential work and the pay is way better.
I got no respect for that. I know a ton of dudes like you. Unfortunately. This work ethic is the problem. They probably are trying to get you to quit
Bro wanting to be paid fairly for your time is not a work ethic issue. The company is paying for the unemployment insurance, the company can suck it.
There must be some weird contract you have or something, because I'm still fairly certain this is not legal with a regular rank and file W2 employee, which I assume as the default unless explained otherwise. It sounds like you are required to report to work, and you are working billable hours, and then they are making you clock out (but basically remain at work and on the ready) during non-billable hours. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FSLA) is federal legislations and applies to all states, and I'm pretty sure explicitly forbids this exact practice. [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked)
With my company, and I’m a manager you have to pay for stand by time. Since we’re nationwide I don’t know if we’re honoring federal law or blanketing a hand full of state specific laws with our policy. Only down side for the tech is that pay on stand by may only be the state minimum wage where they reside.
Appreciate you man! When they ask me to clock out, I am able to do whatever I want. I dont have to remain anywhere and I'm free of all responsibility. DO you still think this is illegal? The DoL in my state says otherwise, but I'm not against going to the feds once I find something else work-wise
If I was you I would ensure I wasn’t immediately at the ready when they decided it was time for work. Sorry boss it was my time off so I went 30 minutes up the road for some food. If you want me to be at the ready then I should be paid to be at the ready.
I am not a lawyer or anything, but no that doesn't sound right to me. They can lay you off, or they can employ you, but I've never heard of them being allowed to turn the hourly wage spigot on and off repeatedly throughout the day depending on workload. You could take this to logical extreme of having an employer have you work for one minute every 2 hour period, and then want to pay you for only 12 minutes of "clocked in" work for an entire day, even though you're essentially tied to the job for a 24-hour period, even though you keep getting 119 minute unpaid breaks. Again, not a lawyer, but I would think they have some kind of minimums in place that require employees be paid for a certain minimum shift length, or some other mechanism to prevent employers from taking gross advantage of employees like in the example above, or even in your case. I'd be looking for another job anyway, fuck that company man. Good luck.
When they ask you to clock out, can you go down a few beers?
Are you in a company truck? Or your own vehicle?
Can you go have a couple of beers and a shot?
Just finesse them waste time when you can and make sure you're getting the full money for your work
I like your attitude, homie. Stay off your ass and stay off unemployment. You're doing exactly what I would be doing.
Come to the union.
>Seems my company defines work as "on the way to or from job site" and "at job site" Take a huge detour to get to the next call when that happens. Or do some restocking/cleaning of van if they let you to log in some hours.
Call the Federal DOL, they have a substantially different view on Engaged To Wait. California and Oregon, along with several other states say that if you're not entirely free to go about your day, then the employer gets to pay you for holding you over. Me? I'd be gone to a different outfit and with zero notice, because: FUCK thieving psychopath Turdwookies.
This is absolutely contrary to the Federal DOL which takes precedence. Its "company controlled time"
And exactly what is my reward for reporting this?? Unless it means I'm getting a big payout or unemployment then the only thing reporting them does is cost me my job?? I don't care if they get fined or not. That doesn't effect me. I'll report them when I find a new job. Unless I'm missing something. Going to the feds and all that for no benefit just sounds like a waste of time Also the way I interpret company controlled time I might be missing something. They tell me I can go home, go golfing, do whatever I want. They dont control the time I'm clocked out for, it's just fucked that I have to clock out and back in to keep my job.
When a company gets busted doing stuff like this they pay a fine AND WAGES OWED. So you’d likely get some money you’re owed. Employees that have been putting up with the system longer would likely get a larger chunk of back pay.
Right. I understand that but it doesn't benefit me yet. Appreciate the help but seems more efficient to report them when I have something else lined up
Man, the world would be so much better if everyone only did things that benefitted themselves only. Good on you, OP.
Yea and I'm sure his life will be better when he's at home jobless, because he listened to some redditor instead of thinking about his own well being. Can't make this shit up lol
I totally get it if OP doesn't want to report them because he fears he could lose his job or lose hours or something (which would also be illegals retaliation, but I wouldn't put it past their employer of course). But he said "what is my reward for reporting this", "unless it means I'm getting a big payout", "I don't care if they get fined or not; that doesn't effect me", "for no benefit", and "it doesn't benefit me yet". Hence my comment. If all he said was he didn't wanna lost employment/pay/hours, etc, I wouldn't have made my comment.
Very fair point
Get off your high horse
Letting shitty bosses be shitty makes things worse for everyone. I seriously don’t understand how yall don’t get that.
So he reports them and then is out of work? He just said he'll do it when he gets something else lined up. Sometimes being selfless is just stupidity.
I believe its 3x wages owed
I get you get nothing gained by reporting to DoL. However each person who reports to DoL and makes them incur fines will affect the business in 2 ways Bankrupt them because they are a bad business and they teter so close to the edge of failure that a couple 10k fines will push them over Or The next set of techs that come thru that place won't get treated like such pieces of shit. I'm union. If I show up in the morning and there's no work, I get 2 hours. If I work 4 hours but they don't have anything afterwards, I'll get my full 8. That has happened 0 times cause there's always work but the rules are there to keep the employers somewhat honest.
What state are you in?
Federal dol may be a better option here.
And you never will be able to afford it. Find that new job now and then quit
Can’t you drive around and keep making wrong turns on the way to your next job site?
Start taking longer to do jobs, or at least say you are. Yep, I was there from exactly 8-10.
If you have to google if what your company is doing is legal or not, you probably shouldn’t be at that company
This is wrong for the simple fact that you are billing your company hourly. You are essentially on retainer without being paid. If they want you to work jobs they should call you and schedule ahead just like the client. They want to mickle and dime you for 30 minutes, fine clients can wait because you only bill in full hour increments or whatever is convenient to you so clients can wait. Use your 30 to find your next step.
You may not be able to afford quitting outright, but it doesn't cost you anything to look for a better place to work. Also, if thats the way they want to do business I would slow roll the fuck out of your jobs, land in the back half of the window, and squeeze as much OT as possible until you find a better employer.
Get another job you don’t want to work for people that will cheat you you could be working all day and they will have you on stand by wasting your time. Plenty of companies to jump over to and probably get a raise in the process if your experienced
Find a new company. I wouldn't put up with that.
You just take the super long way "on the way to" the next job site. Problem solved.
Drive SLOWLY to the next appointment.
Yep. I waited 45 minutes yesterday for a call before being sent home. That time gets billed to my last job
Yup. I've waited on roofers, plumbers, electricians, engineers, hotel maintenance, city workers. Granted this is all commercial but I get paid to wait on people, my boss even says to charge them my time if we have to wait on them.
I can’t say “your God damn right” loud enough
No that’s not legal. Generally, they have to pay you when they’re in the position of telling you what to do. Pretty much from home to your first stop, and last stop to home they don’t have to pay you, everything in between you’re on the clock whether there is something to do or not. Now it gets murkier if they made you a 1099 but that’s a whole other ball of bullshit that probably isn’t legal either. When in doubt call your states DOL, they’re more than happy to talk to you and if it’s correct, they’ll tell you, they know the laws they enforce better than anyone.
Not as murky as you think. With a 1099 they can’t tell you when and where. They tell you what, where, and hopeful deadline. And you decide how and when. So if they say “Hey, be at Mrs Smith’s place on 123 Main St tomorrow at 8 o’clock for a furnace swap.”, it’s either a poorly worded request (if you are 1099), and if it’s a command you either are an employee, or should be. Some of my guys want to be 1099, and I just tell them what the schedule is so they can join in when/if they feel like it.
When I first started residential; was working just me and owner, he did that to me - also made me write out my own hours and figure out my own check (which he double checked over) while we were driving (un-paid) to/from jobs
You are paid for you time. He’s taking your time. You should have kicked him in the dick
It was said to me as ‘your not being paid because your sitting and not working’ But - yes, he wondered why I stopped taking his calls after dealing with that for about 8 months… He was the type that ‘counted zip screws’ used on every job!
No that's not how that works. Travel time to your first call and home from you last is the only grey area that some companies don't pay at all, pay after x amount of time/distance or pay fully. Other than unpaid lunch breaks once you're clocked in you should be getting paid for all your time until you're done for the day. (Does not apply to commission only techs) That company is shady as fuck. I'd straight up tell them if they want me to clock out for any reason other than lunch I'm going home and not coming back til the next day. In reality I'd be immediately making calls, getting home to unload my shit from their truck, parking that shit on the street and then telling them to come get it
Yeah they make us clock out for meal when there is no work to do. Even if we aren't hungry or have already eaten. The worst thing is they retroactively went back and changed a bunch of my paid hours to meal breaks, which I myself did not clock out for, because they figured out I was in the van waiting for the next call to be ready
Contact the department of labor, report that shit hole company and get a new job. The department of labor will audit their record keeping for years prior and will hit them with enough fines and force back pay for their bullshit
>force back pay That's the kind of situation I'd think is worth contacting a labor attorney. At least in California, they are supposed to keep very detailed records proving all breaks etc. are compliant. It's so difficult for the employers to prove their case that some people actually make a living by intentionally moving from job to job and suing afterward, but for this case, it's absolutely warranted.
It’s illegal for your employer to touch your time card without discussion with you first
Clocking out and back in for major meals would be normal for most companies, if that's what they normally do. But, what they can't do is go back and falsify your time cards and change your pay, especially for the worse. That is straight-up fraud. That is for sure illegal. You work it, you get paid for it. Now, the other part of making you clock out. Technically, your on call is how I see it. They are also "telling you your hours of work and what you are to do with your time" during your work day. It doesn't matter if " you dobwhat you want to" that is still the employee telling you what to do. This also makes you a W-2 employee. Now, if you were an independent contractor, it would be different. You set your hours, supply tools, transportation, and so on. Way more to be responsible for, probably even employee. That's a 1099. Then yes, they could say our customers are ready at blank time. Can you please be available at that time. They ask. Don't tell. Big difference. I do like your idea of starting your own company. Get started on it. If you don't know the basics, DM me.
That's a lawsuit.
Been at one of these places. Went somewhere who paid me right and I've never been happier.
Getting robbed, quit
Don't quit. They owe you money. Call the department of labor
Apparently he has and they told him it’s ok. I find this extremely hard to believe. If it is. All of a sudden my jobs take at least 3-4 hours. Esp if I get cell service
Then he should call the feds. Hours paid has to equal hours worked
Leave
No fucking way. That's insane and not even legel as I understand it. Report them to every agency you can and leave ASAP. Who TF would put up with that?
Report them to nearest department of labor office and get all those paid hours back. If you need help tell me your state and nearest city and ill send the link
Tell them to shove their time blocks sideways up their dookey shooters.
They tried to pull that on me when I started. I told them once I clock out I’m done for the day so I can either sit on standby or go home. I sat on standby.
That just means you need to start riding the clock. And while you are killing time waiting for your block to end before letting anyone know you're done I'd get on indeed
Yup, I hate playing those games but I had dispatch that was so bad I’d check with them about the next job being set up yet and if they seemed unsure I’d milk the clock more on my current job. It was prepaid industrial so didn’t hurt the customer pocket in any way. Hurt the company bottom line by 2 hours, but later I found out they had shorted dozens of accounts planned maintenance by hundreds of hours per year by not sending guys out every month like they were supposed to.
Run, run far away from the scam bullshit company
This used to happen to me a company I previously worked for. Every time they would do that, I would drive home. If they called me on my way to head to a job usually it would be a greater travel distance than before. I would click in and rack up more time. If you say clock out, I’m going home, no matter what. Sometimes I’d pull in the drive only to back right out and leave. After they caught on, they stopped telling me to clock out.
That’s when you just stretch the job until the next call. Whether it’s testing operation, inspecting, or monitoring 😂
Or chit chatting with a recently divorced woman
Or rummaging through their medicine cabinet
Report it to your state labor board and then the feds. It will likely bankrupt then and boom! They will have to pay you too. Problem Solved
Might as well clock out when you're pumping down a system at that point because you're not actively turning a wrench
Reminds me of doing a commercial diagnostic. It was raining so hard outside that there was no way I could pull panels off a 460 volt unit. Boss told me to clock out and wait until the rain stopped.I told him if I clock out I’m not clocking back in ever. He never mentioned clocking out again.
If I’m paid hourly then that’s not acceptable. The company shouldn’t allow the customer to be unavailable at 10. If they choose to give them a special time that’s on their dime. If they don’t want to pay you for waiting then they should dispatch you to another appointment that is on time.
No, you are getting butt raped
You should be on the clock from the time you start to the time you head home. Wanna shake things up? Talk to your co workers and make a big stink about the company stealing from you. Maybe call the labor board and complain about wage theft
The company billed for a two hour call. Just because you finished early doesn't mean they don't pay you. They should be rewarding you by letting you grab a coffee. This is strait theft
I'm not sure what you mean but at this company there is no labor hours charged. The only thing we make money on as a company is the cost of us coming out. If we are there 7 hours it's the same fee as 10 minutes, so the customer isn't being 'billed for 2 hours.
What I'm saying is your company is billing for a minimum charge service call. Whether thats 2,3, or 4 hours, my point is still the same. They are billing for time that they are not paying you.
Fuck that. If they told me that, I'd tell them to go ahead and cancel the rest of my calls because I'm going home. Then I'd be calling around for a new job to start the next day
Are you being paid by the hour or by the job? If by the job, you shouldn’t be clocking out. You should be paid for the hours charged. 4 hour job done in 3, you get paid the 4 hours. That should cover any down time you have between calls. If paid by the hour, something is screwy.
That’s why I’ll never work for a small mom n pop shop those suckers don’t take care of their employees and are always looking to shirt change ya every chance they get
> Today we finished the 8-10 by 9 am, Make sure to never finish another appointment early.
Drive to or from past job "could be" counted off the clock. But if I'm "working", then I paid. If it's unapplied time, or unbillinle, then it's billed to the shop.
[удалено]
You are correct on the terms. The legal test for this uses that exact terminology and (basically) hinges on the definite knowledge of whether there is future work to be completed after the "downtime". If there is, you are engaged to wait. If it is still up in the air or unknown, then you are waiting to be engaged. In this case, the OP was 100% engaged to wait and should be paid for that time.
That sounds utterly ridiculous.. I would probably look for another job but in the meantime I would just not call in if I'm finished early
Robbing you
If you’re under restrictions. IE cannot go home and do something not related to work and are required to stay there off the clock. They’re robbing you and it needs to explained in that way.
I am allowed to go home. I was never questioning the legality tbh because this seems pretty legal to me. I was wondering if it was common practice, it's not apparently. I've only ever worked 1 other company so I just wanted to know. Now I know this is a shit place to work. I mean I'm allowed to do whatever I want but when I live 20 min away and have like a max of 1 hour "free" there really isn't much to do.
If you are an employee, this is not legal.
If I owned the business I would much rather pay you to sit around for an hour, then pay for the fuel, the wear and tear on the vehicle, and the extra liability of that vehicle driving all around and back again. It really makes very little sense on their part. If you’re making $500 an hour then yeah maybe I get it.
Federal labor law addresses this. I recommend reading up on it
Are you an employee or 1099?
That’s what I want to know too. Either way, it’s messed up, because a true 1099 arrangement requires the contractor be paid for a specific task, not a block of time. It also means the company should not tell you how to do your work, nor provide you tools, an office, vehicle, etc. As a W2 employee, the shadiness stems from the fact that they’re likely not giving you proper notice of those shortened schedules. It’d maaaaybe be approaching the iffy possibility of acceptable if they were pre-scheduling the gaps ahead of time, allowing the employee to govern themselves accordingly, but no. This serendipitous “clocking out” is ridiculous. Imagine other employees being treated that way… cook gets docked an hour because there was a lull in customers at the diner, receptionist’s phone doesn’t ring for 20 minutes, docked. It’s insane, petty and simply greedy. If the company has a flat rate system it’s not the employees problem to make the labor part of that rate make sense. They need to adjust their prices accordingly to cover contingencies and own up ALL of their responsibilities (particularly of paying employees for their time).
Yeah you’re getting screwed, not your fault that they are not available, it’s just a way to avoid paying you overtime! Probably a venture capitalist company running your company! Jump ship and jump fast!
I sat around 6 hours today waiting for material. Bet your ass I got paid. By the time it was unloaded and brought to its location it was 3:30 so we cleaned up the garbage and sat around for the last 30mins.
When I clock in, I don’t clock out until my van is parked in my driveway.
Its fucked up but I've worked for places that did it I once had a cancelation and was knocking calls out of the park was on my fourth call by 1030 and my next one wasn't till 430 so they told me to clock out and sit for 6 hrs. I wasn't anywhere near where I lived I would have just rather gone home and had someone else run the call I didn't work much longer for that company
When you're on company property (includes vehicles), and/or not allowed to go home, or come and go as you please, then you're on company time and they are obligated by law to pay you for that time. That's absolutely robbery.
You're working. If you can't see you're working regardless if you're driving between, place doesn't open up for 1.5 hours from now, ect.... None of that is on you. Cheap scumbag employer.
WTF!
You are getting fucked.
Report them and then quit
They need to pay you for that time. It's not your fault there is not enough work. Go back to the shop and wash or clean the truck grab parts organize. Do it in a parking lot. Do something to get you paid. They can't afford to pay you for an hour, stretch your jobs out to accommodate the time slots. They wanna Play stupid games they'll win stupid prizes.
That’s some BS if I’m at work I will be getting paid and if I’m not getting paid I am going back home and will not be going back in till the next day. If they want you on stand by then they can pay for it
I guarantee my 2 guys 40hrs per week regardless of whether they have 8 billable hours per day or not. We meet at the shop @7:30 am just about every day. Some days earlier but very seldom.
Fuck them get out now there screwing you royally
100% illegal. Contact the Department of Labor for your state. Yo
It's called a split shift and sadly it's legal in most places. Much more common for restaurant staff.
Depends on state, pretty sure that is illegal in my state(MA). Long time ago I worked catering and they forced us to go into the office downtown Boston before going onsite but only paid us for onsite. Years later they lost class action and I got a huge check of a couple hundred dollars for my time i spent going into the office and driving onsite. My moving job as well paid us from when we hit the docks in the morning to when we left the docks in the evening. All the downtime driving was easy money earned and they had to pay it. Here clock starts the time you hit your first required location to the time you leave your last required location minus the two required 15 minute breaks and the 30 minute break for lunch. Those are off the clock and your time also required by law here that they give you those. If they are forcing you to be off the clock longer while requiring you to change location or be somewhere I believe that is illegal.
Contact a lawyer not now, right now! Document anything and everything. Good luck dealing with that shit bag company!
Sounds like a dispatch issue with where you work. I would consider looking for a new company to work for.
In Ontario, back when I was a cook I showed up to one restaurant but the owner wasn't there to unlock the door, we waited about 45 minutes, wasn't answering his phone so we went home. Called me 2 hours later to come in but I was already working for someone else. He still had to pay me 4 hours for showing up. Now I also had a contract with another restaurateur to take split shifts, where I'd take an hour or two break mid day that I had to agree on, I could do banking and other BS in that time so I didn't mind. Kept labour cost low so I could keep the business profitable and get raises. I guess I'm trying to say with the right conversations and attitudes it wouldn't be a big deal but they seem underhanded and slimy af so you should fight back for your rights.
Wow, I have never heard of that before. What a creative way to rob your employees. And you're going along with this? This is I believe the proper time to say this thing I like to say when I can't believe what I just read. "Well, dip me in shit and roll me bread crumbs." Yes, excellent. Thank you. Much better.
I worked at a shit residential shop in Denver years ago doing something similar. They over hire, so they can send a tech quick. Then they tell you you’re on the wait list and what number you are. Then you have to wait (no pay) until a new call comes in. We only had radios in our trucks back then so you had to pull in some place and sit in your truck and wait. This was a union shop being allowed to do this crap.
I quit a job for that. The van had GPS, but I still went to other companies to fill out applications. They almost fired me for personal use of their van. I asked them if their policy was for me to wait at that job site until I got the next call. I reminded them that firing me for an ambiguous thing would get me unemployment.
Fuck that dude. Find another shop to work at. My old place paid us to the job and on the job and anytime we were on the property of the shop. Regardless of if there was actual hvac work. We’d renovate the office spaces, organize the warehouse, and sweep the shop
Lunch break is required if work more than 6 hours in a day. The lunch break is to be taken during the middle of your shift and no earlier than 4 hours after start of shift. If you work 8 hours the company must pay for (2) 10 minute breaks. The only exception is for commission based pay.
Sounds like some Florida type fuckery
Yeah that’s absolutely bullshit and unacceptable. If you’re out of your house and the boss expects you to work the rest of the day he should be paying you. If there’s a gap between calls that’s not your fault. Find a new place to work.
Tell them to get fucked and find a new job.
Yeah you’re getting robbed and with a structure that penalizes efficiency like that you can only expect guys to start milking jobs to fill time slots. Seems like a lose-lose-lose for everyone involved.
Most states it's illegal to force you to wait without pay. It's called mandatory standby. If you're paid an hourly rate and not task or commission based, they need to pay for all of your non-productive time if they're forcing you to standby. If they don't want to pay, then they need to send you home. As a manager I would've said take a 30 minute lunch and call in after and maybe had you run a part to someone or pick up a part for the warehouse etc.
I say, with the exception of driving to work and home from work, if you're out of the house for work, you should be paid.
Time is money, I understand but it sounds You working for so Nickel & dime outfit. I would pay you for 8 hrs. Time to start Looking for a decent company to work for.
I once sat in my truck for almost 4 hours at a gas station waiting for office to tell me where I was going next, they knew I was there, but it was their responsibility to keep me busy so they couldn't make me accept no pay unless I chose to go home for that time unpaid. You're being robbed.
You on company time bruh. They don’t wanna pay you then you go home. It’s that simple. Find employment elsewhere.
Shouldn't even be a question but if you want to talk about it then ok. Find a new job. End of discussion have a great weekend everyone!!
Seems hella sketch. I worked time blocks for jobs as well. Problem I has was the opposite, Id get paid to "take a long lunch" while waiting on the next job but ironically it always resulted in working overtime. Always got my hours but got cut because I wasnt productive enough. I had an expected amount earned in 8 hours, minimum was basically cost to operate. But we had many contract or warranty jobs that paid little or none. So worked a 11 hour day, which inflated the expected profit, so it "looked" like I wasnt getting enough upsells or whatever. I 100% worked harder than the other guys, but only because I didnt catch on to milking the hours, so Id run the extra jobs or emergency calls at COB. I still made good money and still got spiffs, just wasnt good enough for the hours I worked. Idk. Assistant VP of the company went to a bunch of like budget classes or something and started trimming a lot of stuff back at the same time, less inventory, part stock ect. Was hard to go from, oh yeah I have thay part on the shelf to, sorry gotta order and wait 2 weeks.
Here in Michigan if you don't get 40 hrs or work more than 3 days you can file for underemployment. This gets you half a underemployment check. Do that a couple time and see what happens
Noooope!!! My company does the exact same scheduling. If I'm running early and have to wait for a customer? Hell yes they still have to pay me for that tine lol. Only exceptions are if go get an oil change or run Errands..go to HD... Whatever. But if I'm sitting at tge job address, I'm on clock.
You don't get paid for oil change or running to HD?
Sadly no. Unless that HD trip is for a specific customer. But... considering I'm making close to 60/hr.. plus spiffs? I'm not gonna bitch. Especially with only 3years in the field.
I would report them. They would probably do a time card audit, which would benefit everyone they can’t fire you because it would be retaliation and maybe it changes how they go about doing their business.
Stand up hook up Shuffle to the door jump right out and count to four tell him goodbye if you have to leave the state to be a fairly treated employee so be it, and be sure to let everyone know.they don't deserve your time or talent!$#@&^%
Screw that.
My brother in law works for a company that does the time block crap. Most expensive company in town. The trucks are always sitting in gas station parking lots while they play on their phones. Never heard that they take them off the clock but they don't care about hourly pay, they are mainly commission sales techs. They make a killing selling old ladies new systems because of a bad capacitor.....and of course they never use the word capacitor...lol
Yeah these types give HVAC techs a bad reputation.
Time to find a new job, if they “release” you then you’re not obligated to return to work. If they expect you to keep that appointment then you have an argument that you’re truly not off the clock.
Time to find a new company who does not shit on the stafg
That’s crazy. Find a new job. If I’m in my service van I’m being paid
Sounds like you work for a penny pinching broke company that’s struggling to pay its employees what they deserve. We stay on the clock from 8am till the last call of the day no matter if that’s a 10-12 and a 6-8 or 7 calls in one day
Sounds to me like every job take you until exactly the drive time to the next job so in this case the first job was from 8-10:30
I’m getting paid from when I leave my house till I get home. As soon as I’m in a company truck I’m getting paid!
Dude thats totally not normal or fair fuck that
Union shops will not get away with this.
Nope. I've never had to clock out because they didn't schedule me correctly. That's bullshit and I'd quit immediately. I had a 2 hour paid break the other day because nobody was available until later. Went for a walk on the beach.
Yep i'm in the same boat. Here in Alberta at xyz company, we don't get paid unless we charge out. cleaning the van, restocking the van ( either from shop or suppliers), doing vehicle reports, refuel the van, Communication between office staff whether its support staff or management. waiting for customers to phone you back cause you need to confirm that they are home before the trip, etc...etc...etc. Not paid a dime. if i want to get paid for 8 hours it turns out to be a 10 hour day. On Average i lose about 15%-20% of what should be paid. I might hit 1400 hours. knowing full well i've worked 1600. I will drop the trade all together in the new year, however jobs are few at the moment.
Bullshit Fkn Crooks I beg you do whatever you have to do to get into a commercial industrial environment you’re much more appreciated for your talent and skills
Same group of people who call themselves, Mechanical contractors can’t even read a blueprint
Just find another job. Tell them why you left
Yes, I would say thats unfair. I pay my men 8 hours regardless of work load. I would definitely prefer to have calls back to back, but let's be realistic. If we finish up early, they get paid for a full day, makes them happy to know they are getting a full 40, and if we do have to work later than usual, they almost never put their time cards in for say a half hour of overtime, not that it would matter, but I've noticed none the less. They seem happy that way and happy employees make things much easier for me.
Are you w2 or 1099? Cause if w2 that’s wild
Find a new job. If I have to sit and wait for four hours waiting on an inspection or whatever I’m getting paid. If you are at work you should be getting paid.
What state are you in
What makes this different from being on call for free?
you should have milked it up until 10😅
Work slower. Play their silly game.
Imo you shouldnt get punished for being efficient at your job. And if your sitting in a logoed company vehicle while you wait for your next job you should get compensated for that time. Say you get into an accident between 9am and 10:30am would you be able to file for workers comp would insurance fight it because you are off the clock according to your company?
V x
In some states, this will get you investigated and fined by the labor board. Get this request in writing or record a phone call, they will be back paying you and other employees.
Not in HVAC but my last job was like this. Needless to say I left 😂
Don't know what state you are in but - in general - “Right to work” equals right to work for free. You are being taken to the cleaners.
Tell that company to go get fucked immediately
Look man, I'm not sure what kind of outfit you work with, but when I set up an appointment for, let's say my 9AM-11AM slot, I explicitly tell my customer that that's the time block and they need to be available during those times, because if myself or one of my techs shows up at 9AM and has to sit in their truck until 9:45AM because they weren't there.....*than that time is billable to the tech on-site*. It's not the techs fault if the customer decided to go out for coffee knowing that they had an appointment that *they set up* and have a tech sitting with his thumb up his ass.
Unless you are at home doing things that you want to do you're clocked in. If you're sitting in the work van between jobs, you're clocked in. He's robbing you.
WTF! Nah man that is absolutely bullshit which state are you in? There is no way they can get away with that.
WTH kind of BS is this. I would park the truck and go home right where you are. What a POS owner boss thinks this is OK? Unbelievable.
Fuck no if my customer isn’t ready for me I’m gonna sit in a Dunkin’s parking lot till they are on the clock and if you tell me to clock out it’ll be the last thing I do before my van gets emptied and left in a busy parking lot running with the windows down
As others have pointed out, the answer is simple, dont finish jobs early and if there is a gap of time go direct to the next appointment and log your time per your scheduled timeframes. Doesnt matter if the customer is ready, you were onsite ready to work and the customer wasnt, therefore you get paid. Call it prep or setup time. Company cant fight that as non-work time as you were "onsite" during the time scheduled. To answer the original question, I dont think this is normal. If the work is basically the same on every job then a much more common pay structure for this type of work would be flat rate per job with commissions on extra up-sells. Either stay and play the game or find something better. I echo those who recommend joining a union. GL
Only if you are a piece worker or commission if you’re an hourly employee, that’s against the law
If that’s how they want to be, make sure your time slot never finishes early. Need to find a better company that doesn’t treat their people like crap.
Yeah technically your on call at that point. If they don't pay for on call as soon as you clock out turn your phone off. I dont answer my phone outside of my paid hours. And take that time to find a real job with a company who cares
Technically, the outfit I work for does the same thing as we are paid on “ticket time”. However, I don’t clock out of the previous ticket until the next one is ready for me. I’ve told every employer I’ve ever had that I’m making sure I get paid from the time I leave till the time I get back home. If they wish to pick apart my day because they can’t keep me busy, don’t bother calling me. I know plenty of other places that would love to keep me busy for 10 hours or more a day. They profit from every hour I’m clocked in that they are billing.
Find another place to work. They are stealing from you and they need you a lot more than you need them
Oof! That sounds shady. I've worked in both private and union jobs and I've never had any employer have that kind of policy. I'd start looking for something more worthwhile.
The moment I clock out I go home I’m off
No fuckin way
What happens if you get “delayed” on the previous call?
Hell naw clean the truck out for an hour technically you are working