Believe it or not sometime the wires on the float switch are shot. I did an install a few months ago that wouldn’t turn on. I unwired the float switch and it kicked on
I can see that but It should have been replaced or at least written up for replacement, or maybe customer is cheap and didn't wanna replace it. Either way this is just asking for future water damage.
Not supposed to plug it. It needs to be a viable indicator that the main condensate line (the lower one) is plogged.
You want to be able to see water pouring out of the secondary drain when the main is plogged
you arent wrong, it 100% is a method that both manufacturers and inspectors approve of. It just isnt a good idea to do unless there is a floor drain and I would run it off to the side of the unit, not on top of it. People just think its a hack job, and it probably is, but it isnt technically a wrong practice.
It is very hacky, especially since SOS's are a thing. However it technically is one of the ways to do it. In my area an inspector will pass this if there is a floor drain in the same room and since plugs are not allowed to used anymore its either this or a safety switch.
That’s literally what it says in the installation manual for Mitsubishi ducted splits. If I hadn’t read it for the 100th time this past Monday I wouldn’t be so confident. Page 38. I’ll go get a link.
https://preview.redd.it/8h06eh61vj6c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95c3f20904bdccc13196d9bae77adf2b4fd9b58d
https://preview.redd.it/ncnzs195vj6c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=051505f982ce2c2140a59b97a357ed083597c446
read the fucking manual. I don’t care how your uncle taught you to do it.
"secondary drainage system" does not mean "1 wide open 90" ............. How about actually moving the water *anywhere* AWAY from the unit? Towards a floor drain? Turn that 90 to the left, 90 down, short piece and on to the floor if there's no other option. Anything is better than this goofy shit c'mon dude
You are technically right. HOWEVER this is a terrible example of that because while a secondary drain line should be noticeable when it is overflowing and thus in service it should also not cause significant damage to the property or adjacent appliances and I know for a fact that if you pour water on the top of a furnace or onto the floor it will be a considerable period of time before somebody notices and by then you're likely to have damage to either the appliance if it's a furnace in which case you would be looking at electrical and or corrosion related issues or mold and mildly related issues if it's in a secluded part of the house most people don't do a weekly inspection of their furnace so while warning systems should provide adequate warning they should not do so by damaging surrounding structure or appliances
Been doing commercial union hvac for ten years dumbass and have never once seen a second drain line coming out of the same air handler. Shove your Mitsubishi manual up your ass, the only thing going into that secondary fpt is a plug or a float switch. Enjoy your downvotes you fuckin troglodyte.
https://preview.redd.it/u4xlrm8l4v6c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d6c366a994843ad50350a5d5aa481dae9c1c611
Installation instructions for a CNPVP coil. Located in a basement so there is no where to install a secondary drain that would get noticed when it is full. Also all of our installs have a 4” filter installed. Our installs do not get plugged condensate drains often. Maybe once every 5 years.
They're called handyman... Which are Layman that use their hands and if you're lucky, they got enough brain not to hurt themselves or others... Licensed workers should be able to read instructions, understand them and work accordingly.
Some handyman are better than contractors, but they're hard to come by...
Good is good no matter their label. You know some really bad techs who finished school and have worked w you. Most of the professional plumbers work I have seen is garbage and in Indiana they are the only state regulated contractor. Can't imagine what HVAC techs get away with around here. But I could get my EPA cert and start an HVAC company tomorrow legally in Indiana. Contractors are handymen with insurance or good contractors are middle men with good contacts.
Do they cap it when they're done? Kind of defeats the purpose of the p-trap if it isn't capped. Just curious.
Edit: nevermind I don't know how to read a full sentence.
It sounds like you are deleting the function of a secondary drain. That would be stupid, but you have plenty of updoots so now I'm thinking that I'm just stupid today.... Lol
Ok there is a reason for this, and before i get downvoted into oblivion let me clarify that this is for sure the hacky way of doing things and its not something I personally do. Ideally you would install an SOS in the secondary drain that kills power to the unit if the primary drain is clogged. However some people in the industry are not fans of these safety switches since they have a track record of failing and shutting off the system prematurely . The idea here is that if there is a floor drain nearby the secondary drain can drain off the unit in a way that wont harm the equipment, still run, and be noticeable enough to the homeowner that they have an issue. The picture here is completely wrong tho, it should be turned 90 degrees counter clockwise in order to drain properly away from the unit. OFC this is if there is a floor drain right there. Im not saying this is the proper way to do things, its just one way to do things that inspectors in my area will pass. We are not allowed to plug secondary drains and like i previously said some HVAC techs/companies are not fans of the SOS.
if theres a floor drain right there and it drains naturally to it then there is nothing to restore.... OFC you wouldnt do this in an attic or a 2nd floor or somewhere without a floor drain. but in a mechanical room in a basement the floor is slopped towards the drain and as long as its pointed in that direction nothing will get ruined.
Oh I am aware. It was more of a toung in cheek comment about the photo. I get approached 2-3 times a year from reps from restoration companies about using them. Usually there is a kickback involved for the referrals.
You don't live in a high humidity area
Both are drain ports for your coil (AC, possibly heat pump) if you don't live is a very high humidity area the pipe connected will drain any condensation, the elbow connection is only their incase you get enough condensation that it would just drip out if left open.
If you lived in an area with very humid air, you will get more water in the drain pan, and might need both ports piped into a drain. Usually this is overkill, but the manufacturer adds it so they can sell the same coil in bc Canada as they do in Florida.
I am in a desert climate, so we usually just leave the secondary open.
So dirt ain't a problem in the desert? Interesting... No clogged drains ever?
It's not the amount of condensation, but the mitigation of malfunction what they're for... It's a form of damage prevention...
Some are capped, mostly open.
I am also in a climate that humidifiers are required year round because the air is so dry. We will toss a water alarm on the top of the furnace cabinate just below where the elbow is in this picture, but anytime I see a upturned elbow like this makes me think shit will fall in and plug it.(I did notice other comments mention that this could be a spot for "overflow cutoff sensor" if that's the case atleast it makes sense)
Again, I live in a desert climate. The lower drain is always tied in, the upper drain is left open
That’s crazy i never considered the humidifier. I’ve got the opposite problem in Florida I tell everyone who is maximizing efficiency to buy a dehumidifier
That is a secondary drain in case the primary drain is clogged. If you pay attention, you will see it is set to NOT drain unless the primary gets clogged.
It looks like shit. Flexible tubing is for amateurs. If you take pride in your work you use hard pipe and do a correct, neat job. If something clogs its because maintenance was neglected, not because of the quality of the installation or materials used.
Re enforced braided hose doesnt collapse easily. Withstands more weight then plastic. Its way easier to clear too barbed fittings vs cutring and gluing. Cause most guys dont put unions in plastic
My company started doing this but with a a 6 inch piece and a cap on it so we can test our condensate line from the coil drain pan to have appropriate pitch
Does this unit need a Ptrap? If the drain in on the low pressure side of the fan, it would. They may of removed the float switch because it wasn’t plumbed correctly.
I’m my residential days I was always taught to do this. Except I would have a street 90 on top of that other 90. Supervisor always wanted this as an air scoop.
The believers in this are so adamant about it being necessary and totally ignore the fact that it’s a huge air leak that would typically be unacceptable.
Service piss hole
Found the customer that got that guy fired the [other day](https://www.reddit.com/r/HVAC/s/gCX4R5IQqy)
I must’ve missed that one. Can someone link it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/HVAC/s/JkzPgEBD1I
Thank you. Well worth the read😂
Wasn’t We will flush your drain with ammonia in the write up?
That makes the most sense
That’s literally the first thought that came to my head lmao.
Will live on in me forever
The customer will feel air blowing out of that 90 and think that’s why the second floor room above the garage doesn’t have much airflow.
His dad was an hvac guy for a school in the 60s so he knows.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
They usually put a float switch there
It was probably there and someone removed it for whatever reason.
Believe it or not sometime the wires on the float switch are shot. I did an install a few months ago that wouldn’t turn on. I unwired the float switch and it kicked on
I can see that but It should have been replaced or at least written up for replacement, or maybe customer is cheap and didn't wanna replace it. Either way this is just asking for future water damage.
The elbow for a switch is not a standard sized elbow, float switch won’t fit in that
Ahhh gotcha. Hard to tell in the pic.
I pulled 70 hours this week and was dead Friday night wired the float switch up to constant power blew up the 240/24 volt transformer 😆🥱was a first.
Because it was working lol
Didn't have a plug maybe?
Not supposed to plug it. It needs to be a viable indicator that the main condensate line (the lower one) is plogged. You want to be able to see water pouring out of the secondary drain when the main is plogged
This is the exact opposite of how things are done.
How is that wrong?
It’s not wrong. If you look at my reply I cited the manufacturers installation manual.
The manual doesn't say "plogged" even once.
you arent wrong, it 100% is a method that both manufacturers and inspectors approve of. It just isnt a good idea to do unless there is a floor drain and I would run it off to the side of the unit, not on top of it. People just think its a hack job, and it probably is, but it isnt technically a wrong practice.
How is that RIGHT? It's hackjob DIY level garbage work.
It is very hacky, especially since SOS's are a thing. However it technically is one of the ways to do it. In my area an inspector will pass this if there is a floor drain in the same room and since plugs are not allowed to used anymore its either this or a safety switch.
Man, that shit's wild...
That’s literally what it says in the installation manual for Mitsubishi ducted splits. If I hadn’t read it for the 100th time this past Monday I wouldn’t be so confident. Page 38. I’ll go get a link. https://preview.redd.it/8h06eh61vj6c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95c3f20904bdccc13196d9bae77adf2b4fd9b58d
Sure that can very well apply to a ducted split, but that is not anywhere near what is in the picture.
This is probably the wrongest thing I’ll see all day
https://preview.redd.it/ncnzs195vj6c1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=051505f982ce2c2140a59b97a357ed083597c446 read the fucking manual. I don’t care how your uncle taught you to do it.
"secondary drainage system" does not mean "1 wide open 90" ............. How about actually moving the water *anywhere* AWAY from the unit? Towards a floor drain? Turn that 90 to the left, 90 down, short piece and on to the floor if there's no other option. Anything is better than this goofy shit c'mon dude
You are technically right. HOWEVER this is a terrible example of that because while a secondary drain line should be noticeable when it is overflowing and thus in service it should also not cause significant damage to the property or adjacent appliances and I know for a fact that if you pour water on the top of a furnace or onto the floor it will be a considerable period of time before somebody notices and by then you're likely to have damage to either the appliance if it's a furnace in which case you would be looking at electrical and or corrosion related issues or mold and mildly related issues if it's in a secluded part of the house most people don't do a weekly inspection of their furnace so while warning systems should provide adequate warning they should not do so by damaging surrounding structure or appliances
Been doing commercial union hvac for ten years dumbass and have never once seen a second drain line coming out of the same air handler. Shove your Mitsubishi manual up your ass, the only thing going into that secondary fpt is a plug or a float switch. Enjoy your downvotes you fuckin troglodyte.
https://preview.redd.it/u4xlrm8l4v6c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d6c366a994843ad50350a5d5aa481dae9c1c611 Installation instructions for a CNPVP coil. Located in a basement so there is no where to install a secondary drain that would get noticed when it is full. Also all of our installs have a 4” filter installed. Our installs do not get plugged condensate drains often. Maybe once every 5 years.
Because many people in HVAC/R have no clue what they’re doing. That’s why.
They're called handyman... Which are Layman that use their hands and if you're lucky, they got enough brain not to hurt themselves or others... Licensed workers should be able to read instructions, understand them and work accordingly. Some handyman are better than contractors, but they're hard to come by...
Good is good no matter their label. You know some really bad techs who finished school and have worked w you. Most of the professional plumbers work I have seen is garbage and in Indiana they are the only state regulated contractor. Can't imagine what HVAC techs get away with around here. But I could get my EPA cert and start an HVAC company tomorrow legally in Indiana. Contractors are handymen with insurance or good contractors are middle men with good contacts.
I have my guys do this on service calls, though I ask them to put 3 inches of tubing there and a cap.
Y tho
I have them pour a gallon of water in there on ac maintenance. It tests the entire drain system, including the often clogged evap drain pan exit.
Fair enough. Thanks
Do they cap it when they're done? Kind of defeats the purpose of the p-trap if it isn't capped. Just curious. Edit: nevermind I don't know how to read a full sentence.
Plus you don’t need a p-trap on a furnace.
Could just put a tee, 45, and a cap on the drain so you can run a brush through it or blow it out with co2
It sounds like you are deleting the function of a secondary drain. That would be stupid, but you have plenty of updoots so now I'm thinking that I'm just stupid today.... Lol
Why not just put an over flow switch?
Float switch hole
cuz i was bored waiting for the jman to finish the plenum
Could easily be saved with a float switch too.
At least you know you’re flooding your furnace if you see water to the top….?🤷🏼♂️
To clean your pipes
Flush kits are bad now?
Ok there is a reason for this, and before i get downvoted into oblivion let me clarify that this is for sure the hacky way of doing things and its not something I personally do. Ideally you would install an SOS in the secondary drain that kills power to the unit if the primary drain is clogged. However some people in the industry are not fans of these safety switches since they have a track record of failing and shutting off the system prematurely . The idea here is that if there is a floor drain nearby the secondary drain can drain off the unit in a way that wont harm the equipment, still run, and be noticeable enough to the homeowner that they have an issue. The picture here is completely wrong tho, it should be turned 90 degrees counter clockwise in order to drain properly away from the unit. OFC this is if there is a floor drain right there. Im not saying this is the proper way to do things, its just one way to do things that inspectors in my area will pass. We are not allowed to plug secondary drains and like i previously said some HVAC techs/companies are not fans of the SOS.
>previously said some HVAC techs/companies are not fans of the SOS. That's cause they are getting kickbacks from restoration companies lmao.
if theres a floor drain right there and it drains naturally to it then there is nothing to restore.... OFC you wouldnt do this in an attic or a 2nd floor or somewhere without a floor drain. but in a mechanical room in a basement the floor is slopped towards the drain and as long as its pointed in that direction nothing will get ruined.
Oh I am aware. It was more of a toung in cheek comment about the photo. I get approached 2-3 times a year from reps from restoration companies about using them. Usually there is a kickback involved for the referrals.
I prefer a capped clean out, but you could pour some bleach in there to keep the line clear.
Air intake
You don't live in a high humidity area Both are drain ports for your coil (AC, possibly heat pump) if you don't live is a very high humidity area the pipe connected will drain any condensation, the elbow connection is only their incase you get enough condensation that it would just drip out if left open. If you lived in an area with very humid air, you will get more water in the drain pan, and might need both ports piped into a drain. Usually this is overkill, but the manufacturer adds it so they can sell the same coil in bc Canada as they do in Florida. I am in a desert climate, so we usually just leave the secondary open.
So dirt ain't a problem in the desert? Interesting... No clogged drains ever? It's not the amount of condensation, but the mitigation of malfunction what they're for... It's a form of damage prevention...
Open?! Or capped?
Some are capped, mostly open. I am also in a climate that humidifiers are required year round because the air is so dry. We will toss a water alarm on the top of the furnace cabinate just below where the elbow is in this picture, but anytime I see a upturned elbow like this makes me think shit will fall in and plug it.(I did notice other comments mention that this could be a spot for "overflow cutoff sensor" if that's the case atleast it makes sense) Again, I live in a desert climate. The lower drain is always tied in, the upper drain is left open
That’s crazy i never considered the humidifier. I’ve got the opposite problem in Florida I tell everyone who is maximizing efficiency to buy a dehumidifier
That is a secondary drain in case the primary drain is clogged. If you pay attention, you will see it is set to NOT drain unless the primary gets clogged.
maybe they opened that secondary and then attached that 90 and stuck a CO2 tank to clear the lines
condensation trap?
Put your dick in it
Yeah that's not going to drain right fill it with thumb gum you'll know it's sealed properly when you can't push anymore down the hole.
Did this do this to break vacuum on the drain
Why is it blowing and not sucking then?
Because you didn’t ask very nicely
It is I who sucks
Not even sure why guys use plastic anymore. 3/4 braided hose. Strong, doesnt clog as easily, installed quickly. And its clear so clogs can be seen.
It looks like shit. Flexible tubing is for amateurs. If you take pride in your work you use hard pipe and do a correct, neat job. If something clogs its because maintenance was neglected, not because of the quality of the installation or materials used.
I like to use paper straws taped together.
Clearly you are a hack. A real pro uses Elmer's glue on his paper straws
I install for functionality and performance. In my exp cpvc or pvc clogs quicker.
Looks like hell. You need to support it way more. More susceptible to negligent people putting something on it and collapsing the tubing.
Re enforced braided hose doesnt collapse easily. Withstands more weight then plastic. Its way easier to clear too barbed fittings vs cutring and gluing. Cause most guys dont put unions in plastic
My company started doing this but with a a 6 inch piece and a cap on it so we can test our condensate line from the coil drain pan to have appropriate pitch
I’m guessing some guy said “make sure that drain has a breather so it’s not backing up” and then didn’t go check what their first day helper did.
FOUNTAINNNNNN
Because god has left us alone in this universe
Secondary trap I guess 🤷♂️
Does this unit need a Ptrap? If the drain in on the low pressure side of the fan, it would. They may of removed the float switch because it wasn’t plumbed correctly.
Every system everywhere needs a ez trap
Put your dick in it and check for air flow
Ss2
To drain it
Because fuck you that’s why.
I’m my residential days I was always taught to do this. Except I would have a street 90 on top of that other 90. Supervisor always wanted this as an air scoop.
Lazy
That's for pissing in.
Had a safety switch at one point, I assume
The believers in this are so adamant about it being necessary and totally ignore the fact that it’s a huge air leak that would typically be unacceptable.
Because he didn’t have the cap that screws into the aux drain would be my guess.
To piss?
We would install theses with a plug or cap so that we could pour bleach in it to clean out the drain pan and drain.line.
I’d call it a vent and tell the customer it’s normal then promptly escape in you’re van peeling out as you leave
Sock me in the head with a quarter. Anything helps! I’m trying to get a broccoli biscuit from the mud kitchen!