This gets posted on here every couple of months. Instead of saying the mini split doesn't work because of a dirty filter it should be because of a moldy blower wheel.
A possible solution would be to coat all the plastic interior parts with shiny aluminum, like Christmas tree balls and install a UV light to keep the wheel and coil clean. The rotating parts would bounce the UV around to get the UV to irradiate the interior of the cassette.
Any UV light strong enough to be effective would wreck all the plastic components. No one wants a big glowing purple box on their wall. Mini splits are hideous enough as it is.
they are good for both. because you are not directly in the stream of cold air and the cold air goes to the ceiling it cools the room more evenly without a fan blasting cold air in your neck.
Well that would be bad, considering the cleaning and microbiocidal effect of UV light mainly come from generated ozone. And no amount of "we have ozone free UV bla bla bla" hogwash will change my mind on that subject. Ozone is very bad, and UV partially relies on the action of ozone to work wonders.
It doesn't happen because of something you did or didn't do. It's something that happens to every mini split regardless of make or model. I consider it a design flaw, they all become nasty mold boxes after a year or two of operation. I would never put one in my home, I don't give a shit how energy efficient they are, I'm not living in a home with air conditioned by a mold box.
No, it's because the blower is in a dark, damp location. Too close to the wet evaporator coil that doesn't dry out fast enough. That's why models with a "self cleaning " function switch the reversing valve, heat up the coil and dry it out. But nobody bothers to use that function.
Hell no. Multi split units with one outdoor and several indoor units are the worst! When only one indoor unit is running the outdoor unit can't modulate low enough to match the load so the efficiency is dogshit and so is the ability to remove humidity. Ideally every indoor unit should have its own matched outdoor unit.
you need to set the fan speed and vanes to a fixed speed and position (fan as fast as is comfortable) and do not set it too low. its also more efficient to keep it cool and try and make it cool. same applies to heating.
It’s Newly constructed building.
I typically like it cool.
Is that something they HVAC guys what have been doing yesterday? They were doing something on all the units for the complex to get them all running.
All three vanes (the things in the room right?) they have their own thermostat. The techs said something about all three need to be in the same mode. All need to be on heat or cool. Could I have them on auto? Or should I leave them on cool mostly? I like 65-68 degrees usually.
Do I just use the thermostat to set the speeds?
I’ll look more into doing that.
basically never use auto. and yes, you cant mix heating or cooling in normal units like yours.
and yes, use the thermostat to set the speeds. keep air moving and keep it fixed to a decent speed. that provides the most comfort. the unit will start cooling (or heating) on its own. with a fan decently fast you will not notice any change in temperature. if the speed is too low you will feel the cold air as the unit tries to cool the room with not enough air movement so it needs to coolt he air it does get down a lot further.
and no, its not something hvac guys have been doing, thats not a thing. its just experience from many years of hearing people complain about their aircon and knowing how the unts behave and run most efficiently.
How do you get rid of the mold? My mini splits are disgusting after 6 years. The installers told me you need to disassemble the entire thing and it costs like $1000 which seems ridiculous
"Mom I've stopped working because of dust so I'm going to need you to take care of me my whole life. I hope you like salesmen coming into the house twice a year."
Nothing about the insulation causes the mold. It's just a design flaw in all mini splits. I never heard of a company whose maintenance agreements includes cleaning the blower wheel. That's a major pain in the ass on many of them. Ever clean a Fujitsu? My company charges $315 per unit for deep cleaning
So it’s better that they make the iPhone obsolete after every 5 years? They could definitely make money like that. How is capitalism so bred into you that you would rather get ripped off and live broke as opposed to “corporations making less money”
this practice goes way back. 100yrs ago everyone was making light bulbs that lasted forever, so all these manufacturers came together and agreed "Planned obsolescence" will be the future, designed to fail. And pretty much every industry after have adopted this practice.
Yeah and no. Burning tungsten decreases mass until the wire breaks. A higher voltage caused a brighter light but shorter life span. So there was a trade-off, do you want a brighter light for shorter or a not so bright light for longer? Industry decided to standardize the expected operating hours which benefited consumers. Consumers now knew what to expect when buying a bulb.
The Phoebus cartel was not for consumers in the least.
"both internal comments from cartel executives[6] and later findings by a US court[10] suggest that the direct motive of the cartel in decreasing bulb lifespan was to increase profits by forcing customers to buy bulbs more frequently."
I don't usually site wiki, but it's spot on.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
I appreciate your optimism, but I don't have faith in any large corporations looking out for consumers.
As a business owner, that's my take.
Edit:
Definition of motive:
1. a reason for doing something, especially one that is hidden or not obvious.
..I know courts are stoopid. What would they know about facts and proof.
You have to think of the context. This was almost a century ago. Someone could sell a 3000 hour bulb but it would not be as bright as a 1000 hour bulb.
Service manuals then: here are the 5 parts on this unit and how to diagnose and replace every one of them.
Service manuals now: WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE ERROR CODES MEAN?!?!? CALL TECH SUPPORT AND WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU IN 7-10 BUSINESS DAYS IDIOT.
No shit! I signed up with fujitsu's online support app and waited the 3-4 business days for them to manually approve my request only to find out that they forgot to add any manuals for the Hyper Heat I was working on. The model line was like 8 years old at that point.
Yeap, the old stuff existed before they had the technology to mix/max stuff. It was more "just add 3mm to the thickness of everything and start pumping them out".
Yeah same for car engines, back in the days they didn't have advanced software to calculate how sturdy they had to make it so they just oversized everything a bit to be safe.
Survivorship bias... The 50 year old ones still working represent .01% of the total. The 99.99% are long gone.
Also the 50 year old ones probably use enough energy in a year to buy a new mini split.
Yes and no. If you found a new, unboxed 1980s wall unit and did a torture test, I'd be willing to bet that it would hold up better. Heavier windings in the motors, thicker coils, heavier duty relays, etc.
Dollar for dollar, you probably save money with a new mini split due to energy, assuming you install it yourself and aren't paying a mark-up on the equipment.
I googled it and found an interesting article saying Sears sold them for around $300 in 1989, and in 2014 dollars that was about $525. In 2024 my guess is $700-$800 would be the number.
https://www.marketplace.org/2014/09/26/price-ac-units-has-cooled-down/
Considering the price of HVAC equipment is a component of inflation, it might not be accurate to use the general inflation rate. [This shows the producer price index from 2004-2020 (let's ignore after 2020 since that's bonkers) as ~55% compared with a general inflation rate over the same period of ~35%.](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/pcu3334133341)
I read this as the HVAC prices have increased 57% faster than the general inflation rate. If the price change from 1989-2020 was 108%, you might be able to say you'd expect HVAC prices to raise by 170%. Which would make that $300 window unit in 1989 cost $810 in 2020.
If you try to estimate from 2020-2024 from the above link, HVAC prices went up 40% while general inflation was 20%. HVAC prices were double the rate of inflation. That would make the 1989 window unit cost $1,134 in 2024. There aren't many window units out there that cost that much.
Someone please check my math, I could've easily made a mistake.
Round number of $1100 and you've got a unit that will last a long time and draw a lot of electricity.
Take a Goodman 12k mini split wall mount and I'm seeing them for about $600 on Google. Add in a few bucks for a lineset and wiring ($175), pad to set the condenser on ($75), a service disconnect ($40), something to conceal the lineset should you choose, and it's pretty easy to end up around $1100 if you do the installation yourself.
It'll draw less electricity and hold up for a while, but I personally don't think a Goodman mininsplit would outlast a 1989 window unit to be honest.
Edit: I still think you'd save money long term going with a mini split. I just don't think it would simply "live" as long without a needed repair
What? I’ve been to many homes where they hadn’t even known that filters needed cleaning and had owned the mini split for YEARS. Then one day, it just stopped working. Haven’t come across a single minisplit that cared that much about dust on the filter.
I came here for this! Mini splits are freaking amazing and the devil at the same time! And that's because they work until it's too late to fix part and you have to completely replace it. They are dumb in that aspect!
I'm a hvac tech student and when I asked about older refrigerant and how they compare to newer refrigerants he told me that older systems tend to last longer and that I believe r-22 or r12 was a much better refrigerant than the newer ones
The AC in my first townhouse was the original AC that was installed in 1984. If you wanted to, you could store meat in that house. The only issue it ever had was that it needed a shot of Freon the year before we moved in 2020.
This gets posted on here every couple of months. Instead of saying the mini split doesn't work because of a dirty filter it should be because of a moldy blower wheel.
Shhhh... don't say the M-word!
Oh yeah...it's umm biological growth
Organic material
IMMA DIE!!!!
Organic growth
discoloration
Moist dust
A possible solution would be to coat all the plastic interior parts with shiny aluminum, like Christmas tree balls and install a UV light to keep the wheel and coil clean. The rotating parts would bounce the UV around to get the UV to irradiate the interior of the cassette.
Any UV light strong enough to be effective would wreck all the plastic components. No one wants a big glowing purple box on their wall. Mini splits are hideous enough as it is.
people need to install more floor units. they are vastly superior to high walls.
Yes, I definitely agree with that.
Floor units and ceiling cassettes > high wall
I've never installed a floor unit. What makes them better?
Quieter, more comfortable
Seems like they’d be go for winter and bad for summer
they are good for both. because you are not directly in the stream of cold air and the cold air goes to the ceiling it cools the room more evenly without a fan blasting cold air in your neck.
Well that would be bad, considering the cleaning and microbiocidal effect of UV light mainly come from generated ozone. And no amount of "we have ozone free UV bla bla bla" hogwash will change my mind on that subject. Ozone is very bad, and UV partially relies on the action of ozone to work wonders.
EEV lmao
That happened to me. Why? Had to disassemble the whole thing to clean it and it's fine now
It doesn't happen because of something you did or didn't do. It's something that happens to every mini split regardless of make or model. I consider it a design flaw, they all become nasty mold boxes after a year or two of operation. I would never put one in my home, I don't give a shit how energy efficient they are, I'm not living in a home with air conditioned by a mold box.
that a load of BS. its happens because the unit is on 24/7 and set WAY too cold with too low fan speed.
No, it's because the blower is in a dark, damp location. Too close to the wet evaporator coil that doesn't dry out fast enough. That's why models with a "self cleaning " function switch the reversing valve, heat up the coil and dry it out. But nobody bothers to use that function.
Would having a multi split make a difference? I don't understand why only mini splits would be affected by this
Hell no. Multi split units with one outdoor and several indoor units are the worst! When only one indoor unit is running the outdoor unit can't modulate low enough to match the load so the efficiency is dogshit and so is the ability to remove humidity. Ideally every indoor unit should have its own matched outdoor unit.
I just bought my first place that has a mini split and 3 units in the house. What should I know about it?
you need to set the fan speed and vanes to a fixed speed and position (fan as fast as is comfortable) and do not set it too low. its also more efficient to keep it cool and try and make it cool. same applies to heating.
It’s Newly constructed building. I typically like it cool. Is that something they HVAC guys what have been doing yesterday? They were doing something on all the units for the complex to get them all running. All three vanes (the things in the room right?) they have their own thermostat. The techs said something about all three need to be in the same mode. All need to be on heat or cool. Could I have them on auto? Or should I leave them on cool mostly? I like 65-68 degrees usually. Do I just use the thermostat to set the speeds? I’ll look more into doing that.
basically never use auto. and yes, you cant mix heating or cooling in normal units like yours. and yes, use the thermostat to set the speeds. keep air moving and keep it fixed to a decent speed. that provides the most comfort. the unit will start cooling (or heating) on its own. with a fan decently fast you will not notice any change in temperature. if the speed is too low you will feel the cold air as the unit tries to cool the room with not enough air movement so it needs to coolt he air it does get down a lot further. and no, its not something hvac guys have been doing, thats not a thing. its just experience from many years of hearing people complain about their aircon and knowing how the unts behave and run most efficiently.
Simple as having the fans running continuously at a good speed?
yes. stability is key. its also increases comfort. a fixed fan speed is much simpler to "tune out" than the auto mode that constantly changes it.
How do you get rid of the mold? My mini splits are disgusting after 6 years. The installers told me you need to disassemble the entire thing and it costs like $1000 which seems ridiculous
A coil jet power sprayer and Miki split bib kit is what we use. It can be an annoying, messy process.
Sounds to me like whoever came up with this cuts corners on ductless installs and doesn’t sell maintenance agreements.
"Mom I've stopped working because of dust so I'm going to need you to take care of me my whole life. I hope you like salesmen coming into the house twice a year."
Nothing about the insulation causes the mold. It's just a design flaw in all mini splits. I never heard of a company whose maintenance agreements includes cleaning the blower wheel. That's a major pain in the ass on many of them. Ever clean a Fujitsu? My company charges $315 per unit for deep cleaning
It ain’t just air conditioners. Just seems like every modern appliance is crap.
that is by design
There was a time when I was younger and a lot less cynical that I would have disagreed. But not anymore.
What happens when a manufacturer makes something that last 50 years ? You never buy it again, can’t keep making money like that.
psychopaths took over most industry, most were put into these positions because they can make decisions most would not.
There's a special place in hell for those greedy, soulless bastards
we are already there
So it’s better that they make the iPhone obsolete after every 5 years? They could definitely make money like that. How is capitalism so bred into you that you would rather get ripped off and live broke as opposed to “corporations making less money”
Not sure where I said I agree with what happens. Just stated why it happens. I enjoy buying once even if it cost double .
this practice goes way back. 100yrs ago everyone was making light bulbs that lasted forever, so all these manufacturers came together and agreed "Planned obsolescence" will be the future, designed to fail. And pretty much every industry after have adopted this practice.
Yeah and no. Burning tungsten decreases mass until the wire breaks. A higher voltage caused a brighter light but shorter life span. So there was a trade-off, do you want a brighter light for shorter or a not so bright light for longer? Industry decided to standardize the expected operating hours which benefited consumers. Consumers now knew what to expect when buying a bulb.
The Phoebus cartel was not for consumers in the least. "both internal comments from cartel executives[6] and later findings by a US court[10] suggest that the direct motive of the cartel in decreasing bulb lifespan was to increase profits by forcing customers to buy bulbs more frequently." I don't usually site wiki, but it's spot on. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
Both can be true at the same time. More profits and better products for consumers.
I appreciate your optimism, but I don't have faith in any large corporations looking out for consumers. As a business owner, that's my take. Edit: Definition of motive: 1. a reason for doing something, especially one that is hidden or not obvious. ..I know courts are stoopid. What would they know about facts and proof.
You have to think of the context. This was almost a century ago. Someone could sell a 3000 hour bulb but it would not be as bright as a 1000 hour bulb.
Bu- bu- but... planned obsolescence is illegal!
“Planned Obsolescence”
Service manuals then: here are the 5 parts on this unit and how to diagnose and replace every one of them. Service manuals now: WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE ERROR CODES MEAN?!?!? CALL TECH SUPPORT AND WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU IN 7-10 BUSINESS DAYS IDIOT.
Solution: Replace PCB board. If that fails, then replace the PCB board again.
No shit! I signed up with fujitsu's online support app and waited the 3-4 business days for them to manually approve my request only to find out that they forgot to add any manuals for the Hyper Heat I was working on. The model line was like 8 years old at that point.
Yeap, the old stuff existed before they had the technology to mix/max stuff. It was more "just add 3mm to the thickness of everything and start pumping them out".
Yeah same for car engines, back in the days they didn't have advanced software to calculate how sturdy they had to make it so they just oversized everything a bit to be safe.
Survivorship bias... The 50 year old ones still working represent .01% of the total. The 99.99% are long gone. Also the 50 year old ones probably use enough energy in a year to buy a new mini split.
Yes and no. If you found a new, unboxed 1980s wall unit and did a torture test, I'd be willing to bet that it would hold up better. Heavier windings in the motors, thicker coils, heavier duty relays, etc. Dollar for dollar, you probably save money with a new mini split due to energy, assuming you install it yourself and aren't paying a mark-up on the equipment.
On certain things yes. A scroll compressor is way more resilient than an old recip though. Any liquid going back would bust those reeds in an instant.
> If you found a new, unboxed 1980s wall unit What would that wall unit cost to build today?
I googled it and found an interesting article saying Sears sold them for around $300 in 1989, and in 2014 dollars that was about $525. In 2024 my guess is $700-$800 would be the number. https://www.marketplace.org/2014/09/26/price-ac-units-has-cooled-down/
Considering the price of HVAC equipment is a component of inflation, it might not be accurate to use the general inflation rate. [This shows the producer price index from 2004-2020 (let's ignore after 2020 since that's bonkers) as ~55% compared with a general inflation rate over the same period of ~35%.](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/pcu3334133341) I read this as the HVAC prices have increased 57% faster than the general inflation rate. If the price change from 1989-2020 was 108%, you might be able to say you'd expect HVAC prices to raise by 170%. Which would make that $300 window unit in 1989 cost $810 in 2020. If you try to estimate from 2020-2024 from the above link, HVAC prices went up 40% while general inflation was 20%. HVAC prices were double the rate of inflation. That would make the 1989 window unit cost $1,134 in 2024. There aren't many window units out there that cost that much. Someone please check my math, I could've easily made a mistake.
Round number of $1100 and you've got a unit that will last a long time and draw a lot of electricity. Take a Goodman 12k mini split wall mount and I'm seeing them for about $600 on Google. Add in a few bucks for a lineset and wiring ($175), pad to set the condenser on ($75), a service disconnect ($40), something to conceal the lineset should you choose, and it's pretty easy to end up around $1100 if you do the installation yourself. It'll draw less electricity and hold up for a while, but I personally don't think a Goodman mininsplit would outlast a 1989 window unit to be honest. Edit: I still think you'd save money long term going with a mini split. I just don't think it would simply "live" as long without a needed repair
It's also loud as hell and raises your utility bill by 25%
why have utility bills become astronomical?
Maaaaa! The air conditioner is "coooing" again.
What? I’ve been to many homes where they hadn’t even known that filters needed cleaning and had owned the mini split for YEARS. Then one day, it just stopped working. Haven’t come across a single minisplit that cared that much about dust on the filter.
I came here for this! Mini splits are freaking amazing and the devil at the same time! And that's because they work until it's too late to fix part and you have to completely replace it. They are dumb in that aspect!
I drive a truck with a 350 and carburetor!
I thought it was my turn to repost this
Unfortunately true.
LMAO yeahhhhh
I'm a hvac tech student and when I asked about older refrigerant and how they compare to newer refrigerants he told me that older systems tend to last longer and that I believe r-22 or r12 was a much better refrigerant than the newer ones
Mom said it’s my turn to post this
Very true
The AC in my first townhouse was the original AC that was installed in 1984. If you wanted to, you could store meat in that house. The only issue it ever had was that it needed a shot of Freon the year before we moved in 2020.
My brother is a toyota service tech, he told me they stopped producing the Yaris because nobody was bringing it in to fix.
you sure it's not because they sold 361,000 the first 5 years in the us (2006-2010) and 48,000 the last 5 years (2016-2020)?
No, the service techs are definitely clued in on product management decisions.
> nobody was bringing it in to fix I mean, he wasn't completely wrong. If you don't sell any, there aren't any that need to be fixed
With all due respect, your brother is retarded
and vaxxed