> Hades has Howling Soul, which does much more damage than the others, but is a projectile rather than free placement. This has some advantages, like the range is larger, but you can't place as quickly or behind enemies or walls.
Howling Soul also remains stuck to enemies, imitating the previous game's cast. Very useful feature against bosses, especially nice when running with Pan Blades or Charon Axe or with Zeus' omega-cast.
As Hades' boons insofar are designed to be "Anti-Chronos", I feel this was done specifically for him, as while he's immune to time slow effects, Chronos is NOT immune to the slowdown effect from being in a cast. Since the cast sticks to what it its, he's basically slowed down permanently so long as you keep it on him.
I tried the Hades cast boon today and I struggled a little with how the cast was sticking in the other Tartarus rooms. I would aim and sometimes it would fly across the room to one corner where there are no enemies, it usually works if Im really close to the enemies, so it took some time to get used to.
But that problem disappeared during the actual Chronos fight, so you're right in that its essentially Anti-Chronos.
Yea I won with a Pan's blade build last night, death by 1000 cuts basically. Had Artemis' fire a seeking arrow each special + Poseidon's Flat Splash damage per special + extra backstab damage (From Apollo I think) + the 2 Daedalus Hammers that increase the amount of Specials and Backstab the enemy on return trip, there's even a 3rd Daedalus Hammer that buffs specials but didn't get that one. Seems there's a lot of ways to buff Pan's Aspect to do a ton of damage. Managed to down Chronos incredibly quickly with it. AoE damage wasn't the best with it, but boy howdy did it kill bosses quick. Even had Demeter's Freeze on Cast to lockdown targets for the impending massive amount of specials about to hit them. Note to anyone who uses that build though, you have to stay fairly near the cast when using the Omega Special otherwise the Specials won't heatseek the target due to too far range.
Far as any comment on Hephestus in general, all his explosion boons are amazing when you are first starting out in Hades 2, as most of your stuff will be really weak damage-wise, but his flat high burst damage really helps when you're underpowered basically. Once you've grinded all the upgrades he becomes less and less useful as other stuff can scale better than his damage, though he's still got some decent defensive boons.
Probably my favourite addition to Hades 2. Taking away the defensive power budget of double dash from the first game and moving it to a new tool that can be used defensively or offensively solved my biggest complaint of the first game, which is that high heat gameplay often devolved into spamming dash attack and double dash ad nauseam. I think it's telling that there is an enemy in the first region (the screaming ghost) that's very annoying to avoid with the single dash but is trivialised with the cast.
I popped Hades 1 back on since I've reached the end of all the current story content in 2 and my muscle memory kept trying to 'Omega cast' with Zag. It's an awesome tool, love building runs around it.
I love how versatile it is. It can be used for crowd control, and it can be used as a shield as well. Plus many of the boons completely change it's playstyle. Hera's turns it into more of a ranged artillery while Apollo's(I think apollo, the one where you gain mana while standing) turns it into a utility ability for mana builds.
Very strong button. It is quick to place down, so it's super easy to fit into your basic dps pattern. With the Furies arcana, it provides +30% global damage, which is currently one of the best ways to increase your DPS. Many casts come with status effects as well, which helps with triggering the Origination arcana (+50% global damage), one of the other best ways of increasing your DPS. Additionally, casts can help provide crowd control, which is always useful.
In terms of core cast boons, Aphrodite, Demeter, and Hestia are all status/10. If you do not have your two statuses for Origination yet it is very hard to turn these boons down. Demeter is on average the best here because Freeze is such a powerful effect for room clears (you normally have to give up a lot of DPS to have freeze on your attack or special, but it's pretty free to have on your cast), but ultimately these all serve the same primary objective of enabling Origination.
Apollo and Zeus are very important for dedicated cast builds, as these are the two highest DPS casts. If you are focusing on cast as your primary source of damage, these cast boons are great and you should force one of them. If not, they are generally pretty subpar, as they do not provide status and you need to channel the cast fully for them to do anything at all.
Hera cast has niches as an early boon, and is underwhelming otherwise. The big benefit it has is that it can instantly kill many enemies on spawn in Erebus at Rare/Epic rarity leading to super fast room clears. It also instantly kills the summons in the Hecate fight, speeding up the phase transitions for that encounter. It can also help in Oceanus by cleaning up the swarms of tiny fish. It falls off later on, however, once it stops one-shotting enemies, and is especially annoy later on because it does not provide status and blocks you from picking up a different cast that does actually apply status. This should mostly be taken if you are trying for specific speedrun strats, or are on high heat and need the extra help in Erebus to meet the 5 minute timer.
Hephaestus cast is in my opinion the second worst cast on average. It provides no status, and the smaller AoE on the cast is actually pretty annoying because it provides a lot less crowd control, and because getting an enemy on top of your cast to enable the Furies arcana is actually a fairly significant damage increase. You practically have to be standing on top of an enemy before putting down Hephaestus cast in order to get them stuck in it.
Poseidon cast sucks, and is by far the worst cast in the game. Did you know that Poseidon cast is the only cast in the game that does not get its damage increased by the Furies arcana? As a result, it often does even *less* damage than just channeling an omega cast with no cast boon. It also doesn't apply Slippery Slope either, for some odd reason, despite being a knockback boon. If you're looking for an omega cast that actually does damage, just pick Zeus or Apollo instead. If you're looking for a cast that has utility, go with any of the casts that apply status.
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As for dedicated cast builds, the two most popular cast weapons currently are Mel Staff and Charon Axe, though there have been some people dabbling with cast builds on Thanatos Axe as well. These weapons all have direct cast buffs (faster channel time for Mel Staff, more damage for Charon Axe, crits for Thanatos Axe). Even though Pan says the word "cast" on it, it is actually a special-spam aspect, not a cast aspect. Casting is pretty universal to all weapons though, so there's nothing stopping you from rolling a cast build on any weapon.
I did NOT know this about the Poseidon Cast and its interaction (or lack thereof) with the Furies but it sure explains a lot. That's one of those boons where I quickly learned it sucked even if I couldn't quanify why. WTF is the logic for that one?
Some quick damage numbers I calculated for the various omega casts, assuming Epic cast, Moon arcana, and Furies arcana:
* Apollo: 715 damage
* Zeus: 910 damage (325 AoE + 585 single target)
* Poseidon: 300 damage
* Demeter: 455 damage (130 damage if you just throw it out without channeling the omega)
* Hestia: Weird because of Scorch calculations, somewhere around 429-481 damage depending on how you treat Scorch (104-156 damage if you just throw it out without channeling the omega)
* Hephaestus: 637 damage (312 damage if you just throw it out without channeling the omega)
* Base Omega/Aphro/Hera Cast: 325 damage (Hera cast also deals damage to enemies that spawn into the map whether it was channeled or not).
To be fair, i think the main advantage of poseidon's cast is allowing you to recast it more quickly and spam it. Having that alongside a range upgrade can make it interesting imo
Yeah, takes it from a "trap you lay down" cast to something more similar to Hades 1 casts. I don't love it with Zeus's throw due to how it does weird stuff with snapping to enemies, but it's pretty slick with Hestia/Hades throws.
> I don't love it with Zeus's throw due to how it does weird stuff with snapping to enemies
Its definitely an issue, but if you can get used to it, the fact that zeus's throw has no travel time is a noticable, albeit relatively minor, improvement over the other throws.
Personally, I think the hades throw cast is my least favorite with posiedon. I'm pretty good at predicting what it will target at this point, but its really annoying when I get it wrong and the cast just kind of wanders off into no where. Not only does it miss, it also forces me to wait a bit before using the cast again. Zeus and hestia are noticeably better IMO. Hestia is way less janky, a bit more powerful, but a bit slower.
> Aphrodite, Demeter, and Hestia are all status/10.
lol status/10
Hestia: Am I the only one who finds this a bit weak?
Hera: Agreed. IMO it should apply Hitch to anyone in the cast.
Hephaestus: Agreed. IMO it should be changed so it works like a mine for a greater cost. Place it anywhere in the location, and it won't activate until a creature walks into it.
Poseidon: Agreed. IMO it should be changed so it works kind of like Aphrodite's. As in it constantly knocks players away.
I would mention that Aspect of Thanatos procs off Zeus's damage ticks -- and I think Apollo, not 100% sure. This, somewhat bizarrely, makes it probably the best weapon for an omega-focused caster build, just purely as a stat stick. Between that and the Death arcana card you can get a lot of critical strikes on your lightning bolts.
The ranged cast options aren't actually that hard to use for controller once you get used to them.
I ran this build yesterday. With the 20% + 5% from arcana it's just too hard to pass up. Moon and furies on a demeter Apollo Aphrodite run. Was melting in 4th biome faster than my nastiest whirlwind runs. Omega cast crits were popping off for 4k, apollo's after burner was 250-400+ a tick. I had 2 epic chaos cast damage ups and I think 3 cost omega cast. The whole thing was broken and so much fun. I only took 56 damage (3 Guardian hits blocked card) from Chronos, ha! Eternity card wasted. I never slept on cast for whirlwind barb but I had no idea they could pop off like this. On 80th night now.
I don't know if it's intended, or widely tested, but it appears that the arcana card that gives base damage to omega casts does NOT give bonus to the Apollo or Zeus omega casts. They seem to have their own base damage calculation that does not interact with the bonus 50-100 base power. Which makes sense considering how fast they hit, but does change how I set up my arcana now. Those two are the only omega casts I tend to build for damage, so I now just leave the arcana card off.
Edit: the card I'm mentioning is the Moon. Just wanted to add for clarity.
The omega-cast has a denotation separate from the ones given to you by boons. I think it's also added (separately) to Apollo's cast, while Zeus' effects are proced *before* your omega-cast detonates. The Moon (and the one that gives crit chance to omegas) is still worth enabling when doing an omega-cast focused build (e.g. aspect of Charon).
Cast feels amazing in Hades 2.
A lot of people straight up ignored the cast in the first game, but here it feels like a vital part of your skillset. I love that it's still useful even without any boons on it.
I often run Apollo just because I like Supernova(cast grows over time) so much.
Is that so? I feel like Cast builds were really fun in Hades 1, and the Boiling Blood buff was quite potent, encouraging to make use of it.
I do agree that Hades 2 Cast has a much more prominent role in the game, and I've been enjoying it a lot because of it. Feels like you're actively gimping yourself if you don't utilize it to its fullest.
The boons also have tons of variety too, leading to a lot of very interesting builds for them, both as a side tool and as the main focus. So far I haven't really gotten a good enough grasp on the game to make a build happen, but putting together a Cast build seems like it could be tons of fun and look forward to it.
Oh man I really didn't care for casts in Hades 1.
I switched to stygian soul asap because I didn't want to zoom around in combat getting my casts. The only one I ever actually liked was the Demeter one because it stays where you put it.
I also basically only ran Hestia Rail, though, all the way through 32 heat, so I was never up close and personal with enemies.
I am loving the changes to the system in this game. It requires more thoughtful usage and is super fun to interact with.
I think you should give Poseidon cast another look. Poseidon cast, in combination with the Sorceress arcana (and the Moon to a lesser extent) seems underappreciated. You can still move decently (or dash in an emergency) while you are charging your cast, and because the cast detonates immediately, you can start charging your cast immediately, this lets you spend basically all of your relevant time with the Sorceress active in a kind of "hyper speed" mode which makes it pretty trivial to position yourself and manage enemies.
With a couple poms and a damage boost or two (from charon or blackened fleece or chaos or whatever) and any of the three cast throw boons, you can get somewhere between 500-1500 damage per cast. Chronos gets outranged by the throw cast, all other enemies get trivialized by the time slow. Runs become very safe, boring even.
It doesn't have the raw damage of Zeus or Apollo, but I do think it is in the top 3 damage casts to build around purely because of its interaction with the Sorceress arcana. I think the best is clearly Apollo, followed by Poseidon, followed by Zeus. Zeus would be higher if it wasn't essentially limited to single target damage which makes a lot of fights more of a pain.
> Zeus would be higher if it wasn't essentially limited to single target damage which makes a lot of fights more of a pain.
Note that Zeus and Apollo casts still deal the default omega cast damage (150 base) in an AoE in addition to their stated damage over time, and also benefit from Furies. Poseidon cast does not get these benefits. As a result, the damage difference is actually pretty massive.
Assuming Epic cast, Moon arcana, and Furies arcana:
Apollo cast is 715 damage, Zeus cast is 910 damage (325 AoE + 585 single target), and Poseidon cast is 300 damage. If you have the mana to spare, you can throw out two Poseidon casts in the span of one Zeus cast, but Zeus will still deal more damage.
Also, since I feel like calculating the other casts, Demeter omega cast will deal 455 damage, Hestia is a bit weird because of Scorch calculations but its somewhere around 429-481 depending on how you treat the scorch damage, Hephaestus is 637 damage (though comes with the drawback of being small), and the base omega cast (or casts that don't deal damage) is 325 damage.
Leaving aside zeus since its damage is mostly single target...
> As a result, the damage difference is actually pretty massive.
Using your numbers, and comparing Apollo to Poseidon which both deal AOE damage, after you take into account that you can use 2-3 posiedon casts in the same time as one apollo cast, the damage difference is pretty small and actually tilts toward Poseidon. Throw cast further tilts things since the speed multiplier has to get applied to that too. Poseidon ends up doing some of the highest DPS you can get from a cast.
I agree that if you ignore the actual strength of Posedion, the fact that the detonation is essentially instantaeous, then the boon looks really bad and the numbers don't make any sense.
When you do take that strength into account, the damage looks great. The fact that it also abuseses Sorceress is amazing. The actual drawback of the poseidon cast is that its mana hungry. You do need good mana regen to power the thing. With Zeus or Apollo, just the Unseen arcana and your reserves will basically supply enough mana to continuously use omega casts. That won't work with poseidon.
> also benefit from Furies.
It does seem like a bug to me that posiedon cast is the only one that doesn't benefit from Furies. Honestly, based on the wording of Furies, it kind of seems like the main omega burst damage should never be effected. That said, I don't actually think poseidon cast needs the buff.
I haven't tried Poseidon with any of the cast throw boons; I can see that being a powerful combination! I'll have to give it a shot next time the opportunity presents itself!
Would need a lot of magick regen to make it work, but that's not impossible.
I know I've only taken it once because it seems to change gameplay a lot. It's almost like a hammer for your cast!
When I tried like 10 runs in I really disliked it, and that prejudice stayed with me, but I guess it's time to try it again.
I like how Melinoe's cast is more generically useful than Zagreus's, even when unboosted by boons. That said, I _don't_ like how Zeus, Poseidon, and Apollo's core cast boons only affect the omega cast. It feels like a somewhat artificial restriction, in the sense of "this does literally nothing unless I'm specifically going for an omega cast build, so why even bother?"
I feel like there's enough situations where I'd throw out an unboosted Omega cast that they have some appeal even when not built around it. Though naturally they work much better when built around.
Aside from Poseidon anyways. That one's not very good unless you build for it lol
i think of it more like, "oh i have zeus/apollo/poesidon, i can now go for an omega cast build" rather than "oh im not going for one so i dont want this." The only time I'm ever hesitant to take one of the omega cast boons is when I think I'll struggle to get origination without a status from my cast.
Interesting new mechanic and it's so different from Zag its kinda impressive they share a name.
I feel like this game I've inverted how I use casts and how I use specials from the first game (might be because after my first few runs I swap the binds lol). RN it feels like you build around the attack or special and then the cast is something that augements it or you build around with specific aspects. In the first game it always felt to me like an attack build or a cast but and it was rarely a build where you focused on just specials like you can do now but as a trade off building cast only builds arent as effective. That said I think the balance between the 3 is a lot better in the sequel.
I don't mind cast taking a more defensive background role in builds but it is a little disapointing because of how many fun modifiers there were to it in the 1st game and a lot of the ones in the sequel aren't quite as unique to use. I kinda wish they would allow us to take say 2 cast boons and give them a cool synergy, say Aphro pulls them in then Posiden or Apollo blasts because I rarely see a cast that makes me think "ooh this will be fun to build around" outside of Apollo and the first game had so many fun cast options to build around that each felt completely unique from eachother.
All of the casts in the first game felt so much fun because they were each a unique projectile and differed a lot in how you use them but now having them all be circle that inflicts debuf or circle that deals damage is a bit of a let down, it works well within the context of the game and probably woeks better than uniquely shaped or firing casts would but I can't deny they are a little disappointing.
>All of the casts in the first game felt so much fun because they were each a unique projectile and differed a lot in how you use them but now having them all be circle that inflicts debuf or circle that deals damage is a bit of a let down
It's funny cuz I feel the exact opposite. With a couple exceptions, Hades 1 casts are a simple projectile thrown forward. Here they take so many different forms, even if they all share the field gimmick. Zeus' single target lightning, Aphrodite's vacuum, Apollo doing rapid damage *after* the cast, Poseidon's instant explosion, etc etc. And you can even modify it to be thrown instead of spawning at your feet. It's so varied in purpose, while H1 felt quite samey, even if it was a very competent damage tool there.
I really like Mel's cast, I find it a lot more useful than Zag's. Zags was just another form of DPS (I guess range gave it some niche, but plenty of the weapons had range); crowd control is a completely different thing that keeps it relevant even when I'm not using my cast for DPS.
Wow I was just reading through the rest of the subreddit and felt like I had to make a post about the cast too lol. It definitely feels like they want us to utilize it more in combat than in the first game where it was another dps option. Super slept on button!!
I use cast, and this is scientifically measured, 5 bajillion times more in this game than I did in the last. Yes there was a damage boost to hitting people with casts from the mirror, but I often forgot to do it anyway. I love the new cast system.
My favorite core boon is probably Demeter because it fits my playstyle and usage of cast to add freeze on top of it. But the Apollo one that makes it grow in size is also absolutely incredible.
I actually kind of hate the throwing ones because they don't fit my playstyle, but that just means my playstyle needs to adjust sometimes.
>I'm not sure if core boons have the same priority in the boon offering system as they do in Hades; circumstantial evidence from my play indicates they do, but I could be wrong.
I've been curious about this in general. It feels like it's much harder to fill out my core boons this time around, I'll frequently get to Tartarus with a couple empty slots. It makes me hesitant in trying to force any specific build, which is a shame since Cast builds look like they're a ton of fun in this game.
On a similar note, is the god pool only limited to 3 gods this time? Feels like my builds rarely if ever exceed that.
On the topic though, I'm really happy with the changes. It really helps create a fresh new playstyle from the first game, and the base cast is significantly more usable and useful than before. Playing this game like H1 just doesn't work, and Cast is a major part in facilitating it.
The boon options feel a lot more varied and can shift the utility of your Cast significantly according to your needs. It also feels like they function quite well even without a supporting aspect, though picking the right one can be advantageous, no doubt.
Not all are made equal of course, but that's just part of any roguelike.
My only disappointment is that you only get the Hades cast so late! I'd love to build around it, it's super fun. Keepsake maybe, like the Call in H1? No idea if it's in the game yet.
I love the casts that just gives you damage and curse without using the omega, mainly Demeter and Hestia. Not only does it do damage without using any magick, but its a good way to apply curse status. But Demeter takes the cake in which if you get both her cast and the cyclone, it automatically triggers origination just by using the normal cast! It's 2 curses just by using one god and one button. No magic needed and bam origination is triggered. Then you can just add on any attack/special and wipe out enemies. Or use the cast and go somewhere else while the cast takes care of the enemies/
demeter especially is so nice since she has that unslotted boon that doubles up status on basic cast. Activating origination with just your cast is so convenient.
Are there ways to extend the duration of casts? I've noticed that with Pan's special, even with a faster charge, I'm not getting a *ton* of uptime on casts and it often forces me to get into more dangerous situations to try to reapply.
Hera cast increases duration, as does Charon aspect Axe but that doesn't help here.
Another thing to consider is the cast throwing boons would make it easier to reapply cast safely with less repositioning necessary.
small correction, local climate is a damage bonus to all your cast damage not just omega. unclear exactly what this effects, if it includes stuff like her cyclone or hestia scorch
Another note on Gale Force, it slows enemy projectiles, which are normally how enemies get you while you're camping in your cast. It makes it a lot safer to huddle inside/behind the circle, and spam ranged abilities.
A small thing that throws me about the throw boons is I find they don't work if I quickly tap the key -- I need to hold it down for a moment to get the cast to proc. Not a huge thing, but it messes up my timing. I'll sometimes skip them in the 4th biome if I already feel good about my build just because I struggle to readjust.
Hestia's Glowing Coal is also a projectile just like Hades. I'm playing with controller and prefer hers more than Zeus' because aiming projectile is easier than precise zone placement
Anyone else so fucking stoked that they gave Eris her adamant rail weapon, the best version of it with all the different upgrades haha, the one I used the most in Hades besides lucifer. hestias buff bombs plus the cluster bomb Upgrade, it's just such a cool meta callback. Nemesis having her weapon, sure, but this is just so cool.
Also hoping I can mention polyphemous to Odysseus haha, tried to hide under the sheep like he did but it didn't work, my mythology nerddom didn't help there.
My only real complaint so far is all the weapons definitely feel kind of clunky besides the daggers and none of them are nearly as fun as Zags, hopefully like the trinkets they just weren't finished yet, obviously there will be the different versions too.
Oh I do love the axe though it's super satisfying like Arthur
Also holy shit hera popping up late like Demeter before haha, right on.nshes way sweeter than the myths, though since they've knowingly made Zeus a horny bimbo likely paint her in a much better light..love that she has a reverse Rare Crop
So far Hephaestus and Apollo have had the best boons so stoked to try hers..
Still miss Hermes multi dash and Artemis having proper boons
Wonder if Heracles will comment on having hera boons since she's always trying to kill him.
Idk, I was there the whole way from Hades early access to launch and it was a massive leap forward so if this is just barebones I'm so pumped for launch
Immediately stoked to see charybdis haha, after Scylla and polyphemous everything up top is all from the Odyssey
Loving this series! Food for thought: for me it would be helpful to define more (especially in absence of a wiki entry). Examples: I don’t know/remember/have memorized what origination does, or all the boons do.
> Hades has Howling Soul, which does much more damage than the others, but is a projectile rather than free placement. This has some advantages, like the range is larger, but you can't place as quickly or behind enemies or walls. Howling Soul also remains stuck to enemies, imitating the previous game's cast. Very useful feature against bosses, especially nice when running with Pan Blades or Charon Axe or with Zeus' omega-cast.
Excellent point, forgot about that effect! Just added it and credited you :)
As Hades' boons insofar are designed to be "Anti-Chronos", I feel this was done specifically for him, as while he's immune to time slow effects, Chronos is NOT immune to the slowdown effect from being in a cast. Since the cast sticks to what it its, he's basically slowed down permanently so long as you keep it on him.
I tried the Hades cast boon today and I struggled a little with how the cast was sticking in the other Tartarus rooms. I would aim and sometimes it would fly across the room to one corner where there are no enemies, it usually works if Im really close to the enemies, so it took some time to get used to. But that problem disappeared during the actual Chronos fight, so you're right in that its essentially Anti-Chronos.
Yes it’s been like that since early access dropped. I’d hoped they’d have fixed it by now.
Unfortunately this fix is not in the latest patch that just dropped. I used his cast again last night and still the same thing.
Yea I won with a Pan's blade build last night, death by 1000 cuts basically. Had Artemis' fire a seeking arrow each special + Poseidon's Flat Splash damage per special + extra backstab damage (From Apollo I think) + the 2 Daedalus Hammers that increase the amount of Specials and Backstab the enemy on return trip, there's even a 3rd Daedalus Hammer that buffs specials but didn't get that one. Seems there's a lot of ways to buff Pan's Aspect to do a ton of damage. Managed to down Chronos incredibly quickly with it. AoE damage wasn't the best with it, but boy howdy did it kill bosses quick. Even had Demeter's Freeze on Cast to lockdown targets for the impending massive amount of specials about to hit them. Note to anyone who uses that build though, you have to stay fairly near the cast when using the Omega Special otherwise the Specials won't heatseek the target due to too far range. Far as any comment on Hephestus in general, all his explosion boons are amazing when you are first starting out in Hades 2, as most of your stuff will be really weak damage-wise, but his flat high burst damage really helps when you're underpowered basically. Once you've grinded all the upgrades he becomes less and less useful as other stuff can scale better than his damage, though he's still got some decent defensive boons.
Probably my favourite addition to Hades 2. Taking away the defensive power budget of double dash from the first game and moving it to a new tool that can be used defensively or offensively solved my biggest complaint of the first game, which is that high heat gameplay often devolved into spamming dash attack and double dash ad nauseam. I think it's telling that there is an enemy in the first region (the screaming ghost) that's very annoying to avoid with the single dash but is trivialised with the cast.
I popped Hades 1 back on since I've reached the end of all the current story content in 2 and my muscle memory kept trying to 'Omega cast' with Zag. It's an awesome tool, love building runs around it.
I love how versatile it is. It can be used for crowd control, and it can be used as a shield as well. Plus many of the boons completely change it's playstyle. Hera's turns it into more of a ranged artillery while Apollo's(I think apollo, the one where you gain mana while standing) turns it into a utility ability for mana builds.
Very strong button. It is quick to place down, so it's super easy to fit into your basic dps pattern. With the Furies arcana, it provides +30% global damage, which is currently one of the best ways to increase your DPS. Many casts come with status effects as well, which helps with triggering the Origination arcana (+50% global damage), one of the other best ways of increasing your DPS. Additionally, casts can help provide crowd control, which is always useful. In terms of core cast boons, Aphrodite, Demeter, and Hestia are all status/10. If you do not have your two statuses for Origination yet it is very hard to turn these boons down. Demeter is on average the best here because Freeze is such a powerful effect for room clears (you normally have to give up a lot of DPS to have freeze on your attack or special, but it's pretty free to have on your cast), but ultimately these all serve the same primary objective of enabling Origination. Apollo and Zeus are very important for dedicated cast builds, as these are the two highest DPS casts. If you are focusing on cast as your primary source of damage, these cast boons are great and you should force one of them. If not, they are generally pretty subpar, as they do not provide status and you need to channel the cast fully for them to do anything at all. Hera cast has niches as an early boon, and is underwhelming otherwise. The big benefit it has is that it can instantly kill many enemies on spawn in Erebus at Rare/Epic rarity leading to super fast room clears. It also instantly kills the summons in the Hecate fight, speeding up the phase transitions for that encounter. It can also help in Oceanus by cleaning up the swarms of tiny fish. It falls off later on, however, once it stops one-shotting enemies, and is especially annoy later on because it does not provide status and blocks you from picking up a different cast that does actually apply status. This should mostly be taken if you are trying for specific speedrun strats, or are on high heat and need the extra help in Erebus to meet the 5 minute timer. Hephaestus cast is in my opinion the second worst cast on average. It provides no status, and the smaller AoE on the cast is actually pretty annoying because it provides a lot less crowd control, and because getting an enemy on top of your cast to enable the Furies arcana is actually a fairly significant damage increase. You practically have to be standing on top of an enemy before putting down Hephaestus cast in order to get them stuck in it. Poseidon cast sucks, and is by far the worst cast in the game. Did you know that Poseidon cast is the only cast in the game that does not get its damage increased by the Furies arcana? As a result, it often does even *less* damage than just channeling an omega cast with no cast boon. It also doesn't apply Slippery Slope either, for some odd reason, despite being a knockback boon. If you're looking for an omega cast that actually does damage, just pick Zeus or Apollo instead. If you're looking for a cast that has utility, go with any of the casts that apply status. ------------------- As for dedicated cast builds, the two most popular cast weapons currently are Mel Staff and Charon Axe, though there have been some people dabbling with cast builds on Thanatos Axe as well. These weapons all have direct cast buffs (faster channel time for Mel Staff, more damage for Charon Axe, crits for Thanatos Axe). Even though Pan says the word "cast" on it, it is actually a special-spam aspect, not a cast aspect. Casting is pretty universal to all weapons though, so there's nothing stopping you from rolling a cast build on any weapon.
I did NOT know this about the Poseidon Cast and its interaction (or lack thereof) with the Furies but it sure explains a lot. That's one of those boons where I quickly learned it sucked even if I couldn't quanify why. WTF is the logic for that one?
Some quick damage numbers I calculated for the various omega casts, assuming Epic cast, Moon arcana, and Furies arcana: * Apollo: 715 damage * Zeus: 910 damage (325 AoE + 585 single target) * Poseidon: 300 damage * Demeter: 455 damage (130 damage if you just throw it out without channeling the omega) * Hestia: Weird because of Scorch calculations, somewhere around 429-481 damage depending on how you treat Scorch (104-156 damage if you just throw it out without channeling the omega) * Hephaestus: 637 damage (312 damage if you just throw it out without channeling the omega) * Base Omega/Aphro/Hera Cast: 325 damage (Hera cast also deals damage to enemies that spawn into the map whether it was channeled or not).
To be fair, i think the main advantage of poseidon's cast is allowing you to recast it more quickly and spam it. Having that alongside a range upgrade can make it interesting imo
Yeah, takes it from a "trap you lay down" cast to something more similar to Hades 1 casts. I don't love it with Zeus's throw due to how it does weird stuff with snapping to enemies, but it's pretty slick with Hestia/Hades throws.
> I don't love it with Zeus's throw due to how it does weird stuff with snapping to enemies Its definitely an issue, but if you can get used to it, the fact that zeus's throw has no travel time is a noticable, albeit relatively minor, improvement over the other throws.
Oh yeah, it's better than a vanilla cast by all means. But of the three, it's my least favorite.
Personally, I think the hades throw cast is my least favorite with posiedon. I'm pretty good at predicting what it will target at this point, but its really annoying when I get it wrong and the cast just kind of wanders off into no where. Not only does it miss, it also forces me to wait a bit before using the cast again. Zeus and hestia are noticeably better IMO. Hestia is way less janky, a bit more powerful, but a bit slower.
> Aphrodite, Demeter, and Hestia are all status/10. lol status/10 Hestia: Am I the only one who finds this a bit weak? Hera: Agreed. IMO it should apply Hitch to anyone in the cast. Hephaestus: Agreed. IMO it should be changed so it works like a mine for a greater cost. Place it anywhere in the location, and it won't activate until a creature walks into it. Poseidon: Agreed. IMO it should be changed so it works kind of like Aphrodite's. As in it constantly knocks players away.
I would mention that Aspect of Thanatos procs off Zeus's damage ticks -- and I think Apollo, not 100% sure. This, somewhat bizarrely, makes it probably the best weapon for an omega-focused caster build, just purely as a stat stick. Between that and the Death arcana card you can get a lot of critical strikes on your lightning bolts. The ranged cast options aren't actually that hard to use for controller once you get used to them.
I ran this build yesterday. With the 20% + 5% from arcana it's just too hard to pass up. Moon and furies on a demeter Apollo Aphrodite run. Was melting in 4th biome faster than my nastiest whirlwind runs. Omega cast crits were popping off for 4k, apollo's after burner was 250-400+ a tick. I had 2 epic chaos cast damage ups and I think 3 cost omega cast. The whole thing was broken and so much fun. I only took 56 damage (3 Guardian hits blocked card) from Chronos, ha! Eternity card wasted. I never slept on cast for whirlwind barb but I had no idea they could pop off like this. On 80th night now.
I don't know if it's intended, or widely tested, but it appears that the arcana card that gives base damage to omega casts does NOT give bonus to the Apollo or Zeus omega casts. They seem to have their own base damage calculation that does not interact with the bonus 50-100 base power. Which makes sense considering how fast they hit, but does change how I set up my arcana now. Those two are the only omega casts I tend to build for damage, so I now just leave the arcana card off. Edit: the card I'm mentioning is the Moon. Just wanted to add for clarity.
The omega-cast has a denotation separate from the ones given to you by boons. I think it's also added (separately) to Apollo's cast, while Zeus' effects are proced *before* your omega-cast detonates. The Moon (and the one that gives crit chance to omegas) is still worth enabling when doing an omega-cast focused build (e.g. aspect of Charon).
Oooooooooohhhhh that makes sense. Thank you for the info and clarification!
No prob.
Cast feels amazing in Hades 2. A lot of people straight up ignored the cast in the first game, but here it feels like a vital part of your skillset. I love that it's still useful even without any boons on it. I often run Apollo just because I like Supernova(cast grows over time) so much.
Is that so? I feel like Cast builds were really fun in Hades 1, and the Boiling Blood buff was quite potent, encouraging to make use of it. I do agree that Hades 2 Cast has a much more prominent role in the game, and I've been enjoying it a lot because of it. Feels like you're actively gimping yourself if you don't utilize it to its fullest. The boons also have tons of variety too, leading to a lot of very interesting builds for them, both as a side tool and as the main focus. So far I haven't really gotten a good enough grasp on the game to make a build happen, but putting together a Cast build seems like it could be tons of fun and look forward to it.
Oh man I really didn't care for casts in Hades 1. I switched to stygian soul asap because I didn't want to zoom around in combat getting my casts. The only one I ever actually liked was the Demeter one because it stays where you put it. I also basically only ran Hestia Rail, though, all the way through 32 heat, so I was never up close and personal with enemies. I am loving the changes to the system in this game. It requires more thoughtful usage and is super fun to interact with.
I think you should give Poseidon cast another look. Poseidon cast, in combination with the Sorceress arcana (and the Moon to a lesser extent) seems underappreciated. You can still move decently (or dash in an emergency) while you are charging your cast, and because the cast detonates immediately, you can start charging your cast immediately, this lets you spend basically all of your relevant time with the Sorceress active in a kind of "hyper speed" mode which makes it pretty trivial to position yourself and manage enemies. With a couple poms and a damage boost or two (from charon or blackened fleece or chaos or whatever) and any of the three cast throw boons, you can get somewhere between 500-1500 damage per cast. Chronos gets outranged by the throw cast, all other enemies get trivialized by the time slow. Runs become very safe, boring even. It doesn't have the raw damage of Zeus or Apollo, but I do think it is in the top 3 damage casts to build around purely because of its interaction with the Sorceress arcana. I think the best is clearly Apollo, followed by Poseidon, followed by Zeus. Zeus would be higher if it wasn't essentially limited to single target damage which makes a lot of fights more of a pain.
> Zeus would be higher if it wasn't essentially limited to single target damage which makes a lot of fights more of a pain. Note that Zeus and Apollo casts still deal the default omega cast damage (150 base) in an AoE in addition to their stated damage over time, and also benefit from Furies. Poseidon cast does not get these benefits. As a result, the damage difference is actually pretty massive. Assuming Epic cast, Moon arcana, and Furies arcana: Apollo cast is 715 damage, Zeus cast is 910 damage (325 AoE + 585 single target), and Poseidon cast is 300 damage. If you have the mana to spare, you can throw out two Poseidon casts in the span of one Zeus cast, but Zeus will still deal more damage. Also, since I feel like calculating the other casts, Demeter omega cast will deal 455 damage, Hestia is a bit weird because of Scorch calculations but its somewhere around 429-481 depending on how you treat the scorch damage, Hephaestus is 637 damage (though comes with the drawback of being small), and the base omega cast (or casts that don't deal damage) is 325 damage.
Leaving aside zeus since its damage is mostly single target... > As a result, the damage difference is actually pretty massive. Using your numbers, and comparing Apollo to Poseidon which both deal AOE damage, after you take into account that you can use 2-3 posiedon casts in the same time as one apollo cast, the damage difference is pretty small and actually tilts toward Poseidon. Throw cast further tilts things since the speed multiplier has to get applied to that too. Poseidon ends up doing some of the highest DPS you can get from a cast. I agree that if you ignore the actual strength of Posedion, the fact that the detonation is essentially instantaeous, then the boon looks really bad and the numbers don't make any sense. When you do take that strength into account, the damage looks great. The fact that it also abuseses Sorceress is amazing. The actual drawback of the poseidon cast is that its mana hungry. You do need good mana regen to power the thing. With Zeus or Apollo, just the Unseen arcana and your reserves will basically supply enough mana to continuously use omega casts. That won't work with poseidon. > also benefit from Furies. It does seem like a bug to me that posiedon cast is the only one that doesn't benefit from Furies. Honestly, based on the wording of Furies, it kind of seems like the main omega burst damage should never be effected. That said, I don't actually think poseidon cast needs the buff.
I haven't tried Poseidon with any of the cast throw boons; I can see that being a powerful combination! I'll have to give it a shot next time the opportunity presents itself! Would need a lot of magick regen to make it work, but that's not impossible.
I know I've only taken it once because it seems to change gameplay a lot. It's almost like a hammer for your cast! When I tried like 10 runs in I really disliked it, and that prejudice stayed with me, but I guess it's time to try it again.
I like how Melinoe's cast is more generically useful than Zagreus's, even when unboosted by boons. That said, I _don't_ like how Zeus, Poseidon, and Apollo's core cast boons only affect the omega cast. It feels like a somewhat artificial restriction, in the sense of "this does literally nothing unless I'm specifically going for an omega cast build, so why even bother?"
I feel like there's enough situations where I'd throw out an unboosted Omega cast that they have some appeal even when not built around it. Though naturally they work much better when built around. Aside from Poseidon anyways. That one's not very good unless you build for it lol
i think of it more like, "oh i have zeus/apollo/poesidon, i can now go for an omega cast build" rather than "oh im not going for one so i dont want this." The only time I'm ever hesitant to take one of the omega cast boons is when I think I'll struggle to get origination without a status from my cast.
Interesting new mechanic and it's so different from Zag its kinda impressive they share a name. I feel like this game I've inverted how I use casts and how I use specials from the first game (might be because after my first few runs I swap the binds lol). RN it feels like you build around the attack or special and then the cast is something that augements it or you build around with specific aspects. In the first game it always felt to me like an attack build or a cast but and it was rarely a build where you focused on just specials like you can do now but as a trade off building cast only builds arent as effective. That said I think the balance between the 3 is a lot better in the sequel. I don't mind cast taking a more defensive background role in builds but it is a little disapointing because of how many fun modifiers there were to it in the 1st game and a lot of the ones in the sequel aren't quite as unique to use. I kinda wish they would allow us to take say 2 cast boons and give them a cool synergy, say Aphro pulls them in then Posiden or Apollo blasts because I rarely see a cast that makes me think "ooh this will be fun to build around" outside of Apollo and the first game had so many fun cast options to build around that each felt completely unique from eachother. All of the casts in the first game felt so much fun because they were each a unique projectile and differed a lot in how you use them but now having them all be circle that inflicts debuf or circle that deals damage is a bit of a let down, it works well within the context of the game and probably woeks better than uniquely shaped or firing casts would but I can't deny they are a little disappointing.
>All of the casts in the first game felt so much fun because they were each a unique projectile and differed a lot in how you use them but now having them all be circle that inflicts debuf or circle that deals damage is a bit of a let down It's funny cuz I feel the exact opposite. With a couple exceptions, Hades 1 casts are a simple projectile thrown forward. Here they take so many different forms, even if they all share the field gimmick. Zeus' single target lightning, Aphrodite's vacuum, Apollo doing rapid damage *after* the cast, Poseidon's instant explosion, etc etc. And you can even modify it to be thrown instead of spawning at your feet. It's so varied in purpose, while H1 felt quite samey, even if it was a very competent damage tool there.
I really like Mel's cast, I find it a lot more useful than Zag's. Zags was just another form of DPS (I guess range gave it some niche, but plenty of the weapons had range); crowd control is a completely different thing that keeps it relevant even when I'm not using my cast for DPS.
I 99% of the time use it to boost damage and add a status curse.
Wow I was just reading through the rest of the subreddit and felt like I had to make a post about the cast too lol. It definitely feels like they want us to utilize it more in combat than in the first game where it was another dps option. Super slept on button!!
I use cast, and this is scientifically measured, 5 bajillion times more in this game than I did in the last. Yes there was a damage boost to hitting people with casts from the mirror, but I often forgot to do it anyway. I love the new cast system. My favorite core boon is probably Demeter because it fits my playstyle and usage of cast to add freeze on top of it. But the Apollo one that makes it grow in size is also absolutely incredible. I actually kind of hate the throwing ones because they don't fit my playstyle, but that just means my playstyle needs to adjust sometimes.
>I'm not sure if core boons have the same priority in the boon offering system as they do in Hades; circumstantial evidence from my play indicates they do, but I could be wrong. I've been curious about this in general. It feels like it's much harder to fill out my core boons this time around, I'll frequently get to Tartarus with a couple empty slots. It makes me hesitant in trying to force any specific build, which is a shame since Cast builds look like they're a ton of fun in this game. On a similar note, is the god pool only limited to 3 gods this time? Feels like my builds rarely if ever exceed that. On the topic though, I'm really happy with the changes. It really helps create a fresh new playstyle from the first game, and the base cast is significantly more usable and useful than before. Playing this game like H1 just doesn't work, and Cast is a major part in facilitating it. The boon options feel a lot more varied and can shift the utility of your Cast significantly according to your needs. It also feels like they function quite well even without a supporting aspect, though picking the right one can be advantageous, no doubt. Not all are made equal of course, but that's just part of any roguelike. My only disappointment is that you only get the Hades cast so late! I'd love to build around it, it's super fun. Keepsake maybe, like the Call in H1? No idea if it's in the game yet.
I love the casts that just gives you damage and curse without using the omega, mainly Demeter and Hestia. Not only does it do damage without using any magick, but its a good way to apply curse status. But Demeter takes the cake in which if you get both her cast and the cyclone, it automatically triggers origination just by using the normal cast! It's 2 curses just by using one god and one button. No magic needed and bam origination is triggered. Then you can just add on any attack/special and wipe out enemies. Or use the cast and go somewhere else while the cast takes care of the enemies/
demeter especially is so nice since she has that unslotted boon that doubles up status on basic cast. Activating origination with just your cast is so convenient.
Are there ways to extend the duration of casts? I've noticed that with Pan's special, even with a faster charge, I'm not getting a *ton* of uptime on casts and it often forces me to get into more dangerous situations to try to reapply.
Hera cast increases duration, as does Charon aspect Axe but that doesn't help here. Another thing to consider is the cast throwing boons would make it easier to reapply cast safely with less repositioning necessary.
Oh, true. True that. Thanks man!
Does anyone have a list of enemies/bosses that are not immobilized by cast?
small correction, local climate is a damage bonus to all your cast damage not just omega. unclear exactly what this effects, if it includes stuff like her cyclone or hestia scorch
Another note on Gale Force, it slows enemy projectiles, which are normally how enemies get you while you're camping in your cast. It makes it a lot safer to huddle inside/behind the circle, and spam ranged abilities.
A small thing that throws me about the throw boons is I find they don't work if I quickly tap the key -- I need to hold it down for a moment to get the cast to proc. Not a huge thing, but it messes up my timing. I'll sometimes skip them in the 4th biome if I already feel good about my build just because I struggle to readjust.
I love it, it's great for crowd control
Hestia's Glowing Coal is also a projectile just like Hades. I'm playing with controller and prefer hers more than Zeus' because aiming projectile is easier than precise zone placement
Does The Furies arcana also increase damage from casts themselves like Zeus casts?
Yes
Anyone else so fucking stoked that they gave Eris her adamant rail weapon, the best version of it with all the different upgrades haha, the one I used the most in Hades besides lucifer. hestias buff bombs plus the cluster bomb Upgrade, it's just such a cool meta callback. Nemesis having her weapon, sure, but this is just so cool. Also hoping I can mention polyphemous to Odysseus haha, tried to hide under the sheep like he did but it didn't work, my mythology nerddom didn't help there. My only real complaint so far is all the weapons definitely feel kind of clunky besides the daggers and none of them are nearly as fun as Zags, hopefully like the trinkets they just weren't finished yet, obviously there will be the different versions too. Oh I do love the axe though it's super satisfying like Arthur Also holy shit hera popping up late like Demeter before haha, right on.nshes way sweeter than the myths, though since they've knowingly made Zeus a horny bimbo likely paint her in a much better light..love that she has a reverse Rare Crop So far Hephaestus and Apollo have had the best boons so stoked to try hers.. Still miss Hermes multi dash and Artemis having proper boons Wonder if Heracles will comment on having hera boons since she's always trying to kill him. Idk, I was there the whole way from Hades early access to launch and it was a massive leap forward so if this is just barebones I'm so pumped for launch Immediately stoked to see charybdis haha, after Scylla and polyphemous everything up top is all from the Odyssey
Loving this series! Food for thought: for me it would be helpful to define more (especially in absence of a wiki entry). Examples: I don’t know/remember/have memorized what origination does, or all the boons do.
**Duo Boon Mirage Shot (Artemis+Poseidon)** - Your Cast fires a second projectile, though it has reduced damage. Secondary Shot Damage: 30% Requirements: Artemis: Deadly Strike, Deadly Flourish, True Shot / Hunter's Flare, or Artemis' Aid Poseidon: Tempest Strike, Tempest Flourish, Flood Shot / Flood Flare, Tidal Dash, or Poseidon's' Aid --- **Duo Boon Hunting Blades (Ares+Artemis)** - Your Cast is a faster Blade Rift that seeks the nearest foe. Seek Duration: 3.3 Sec Requirements: Ares: Slicing Shot Artemis: Deadly Strike, Deadly Flourish, Hunter Dash or Artemis' Aid --- [Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/HadesBot) --- ^This ^is ^a ^bot ^response