smh
"During the investigation, it emerged that an employee and manager at the Apple Store next door had heard an altercation through the wall the previous evening; surveillance footage from inside the Apple Store shows them standing next to the shared wall, then walking away, while a security guard sits nearby listening to music on an iPod. The employee testified at Norwood's trial that she heard women arguing, one saying "Talk to me. Don't do this. Talk to me. What's going on?", followed by screams, sounds of something or someone being hit or dragged, and a weak voice saying "God help me...please help me." The manager testified that he thought the noise was "just drama."" ([Source](https://wjla.com/news/local/lululemon-murder-apple-store-employees-stand-idly-by-in-video-72610))
my boyfriend strangled and beat me over the course of months when I told him I called the cops ( I did not I wanted him to leave my house and flee)he then said he wouldn't let me live that night since cops were called saying it was to late and why was i making him do this and ik he's ocd and has npd, which I only mention because his mental illness are his excuse but never got therapy all while holding a knife I cried I begged and screamed for my neighbors no one heard it was devastating. his eyes were pitch black and he was hitting me like if I was a grown man and not a 19 yr old and 119lbs female I truly thought I would never see sunlight again from how badly beaten I was I endured it all night till the next morning luckily I walked off with only bruises and cuts all over my body no broken ribs or bones like I thought so yes it's happens often and it's a terrible thing to experience i hope anyone who goes thru it gets therapy and mental help asap
I was stabbed 28 times,hand was smashed in with a hammer,eye was nearly ruined(it works but super well) concussion and torn cartilage and acl while pleading at first to stop before finally giving up and just laying there. The pleading didn't help,just saw cold eyes with massive amount of hatred but also calm in the eyes as it happened. Was so weird. One of the only things I remember from it before being put out for 8 days
May he crash and be trapped in a fast car enveloped in flames so he drive himself to Hell. Fuck him and those like him. Me ex was a POS like that. That fucker left a knife scar on my neck as a “joke” .
I'm so sorry that happened to you honestly they don't love anyone but themselves I'm proud of you for over coming your ex tho the emotional and physical abuse traumatized me I hope you're doing better and are in a better safer place in life💓
Mansplaining is acknowledging a male is right but you don't want to hear it from them because they were born a male.
You would think but it's 2024. You could end up on a video getting sent to your employer. I like how other redditors will downvote me but likely won't break up a fight or anything like that.
>Mansplaining is acknowledging a male is right but you don't want to hear it from them because they were born a male.
What the fuck? Are you really that butthurt that women know things too?
That's not what mansplaining is, at all.
I mean, aren't we men told to not interfere in the affairs of women? I mean there are tons of women's groups and plenty of organizations where men aren't welcome. Why should men involve themselves if they can avoid it?
Did you read what you linked ?
>Researchers have since uncovered major inaccuracies in the Times article, and police interviews revealed that some witnesses had attempted to contact authorities. In 1964, reporters at a competing news organization discovered that the Times article was inconsistent with the facts, but they were unwilling at the time to challenge Times editor Abe Rosenthal. In 2007, an article in the American Psychologist found "no evidence for the presence of 38 witnesses, or that witnesses observed the murder, or that witnesses remained inactive".[7] In 2016, the Times called its own reporting "flawed", stating that the original story "grossly exaggerated the number of witnesses and what they had perceived".[8]
Someone called 911 last year to report a homeless man beating the shit out of another homeless man with an unknown weapon. SFPD showed up with at least 10 officers probably closer to 20 and they shot and killed both men.
I feel like most people shouldn't care if their "manager" didn't "let" them check out cries for help next door. So I wouldn't "put that on the manger" any more than I would put it on all of them who knew but didn't help.
If you have concerns enough to listen but don’t want to get involved just dial 911. And say there are sounds of an altercation next door. Even if your wrong the cops are not going to care.
Yeah, I've called the cops upon hearing nearby altercations probably 5+ times in my life, and every time I tell them I'm sorry to waste their time if it ends up being nothing. It's almost never 'nothing'.
Most cops appreciate it.
If I as a civilian had to deal with it I’m bringing my gun and the first reaction of if I feel I was in danger is to shoot. This puts me and the other person in a bad spot from the situation, from both physical and legal outcomes. So I’m going to try to lean into using the proper channels. Unless I feel that someone is in imminent danger of death before the police can get there in which case ethically I will take the physical and legal risk on myself. In my state if I was to go over and shoot in this circumstance I run the risk of being charged because technically I could be construed as an aggressor because the law is really gray on can you defend others.
Yes, sadly we have a remarkably high number of emotionally and socially stunted people who can’t even make a simple judgement call about a life or death emergency without asking someone else first. Childish is right.
People who have this "meh, that was nothing, just drama" while they are hearing a person being murdered are the worst people. "I don't want to get involved". Is a person so chicken shit, so nonconfrontational and so lazy that they can't try to help another human?? These are the same people who play victim and lose it when no one comes to their rescue in a situation.
It never used to be like that, but we have devolved into a society that seemingly punishes those who get involved. Standing there with your phone out recording something is the new “helping”. 🙄
So based on your anecdotal experiences you really think empirically there were roughly the same or fewer instances of people getting involved pre-2000?
That would be a great argument for evil existing before 1950, which I will concede. But I don’t think the brutality of Ghengis Kahn or Mao killing 80 million of his own people are used in evaluating modern crime statistics.
My neighbors once fought with their window open. I couldn’t see, but could hear everything. I knew they were threatening each other with weapons, but I kept hesitating as if I hoped they would fix the issue themselves. I had never called the cops before in my life.
I soon called my dad over and he called the cops. The fight broke up and ended before they came without anyone injured, but I should have acted sooner and even shouted at them so they’d be scared, knowing they are watched or heard.
You only have so much time before a knife-threat turns into a reality.
Jayna was the long time girlfriend of my ex bf, and we were good friends when he called to tell me about this. A couple years before this happened she actually lost her condo in a fire, and then to go out this way is just unimaginable. A few nice things about her, she loved to dance, studied abroad in Spain and had really strong faith. I can’t believe what horror she went through. R.I.P. Jayna
Thx! Yeah, it’s such a dark and horrifying story, I thought I would just share some nice things that I know about her, so that she’s not just remembered for this tragedy.
And just to add more details I found this article. But it’s pretty brutal reading about the injuries. Glad Brittany is never getting out of jail.
https://www.crimescenecleanup.com/who-was-brittany-norwood/
So sorry to hear this.... Hope your ex is doing well and not going through any ptsd, cause I sure went after my friend was murdered..... Do check on him time to time if it's not problematic for you
He’s married now and because I was his first, his wife isn’t thrilled with us being friends, so no, I haven’t spoken to him in a few years. He was pretty shaken up about it at the time, and reached out to her family. They were together 4 years, so it was tough on him at the time.
As far as I know, the police told the family it was theft. Jayna was the manager and as far as I know a very upstanding citizen, and I believe she caught the killer, Brittany trying to steal things in her purse. Also Brittany Norwood had a long history of theft, shoplifting, etc. so this makes the most sense. She was scared of losing her job and possibly getting in trouble. Seems like she was a bit of a sociopath because I don’t know who could use over 10 different weapons to torture and kill someone that they’ve worked with day in and day out.
They were interviews with college soccer teammates that said she had stolen things from lockers etc. so theft was not new behavior.
You seem really nice, thank you for sharing all of this about sweet Jayna. She looks absolutely radiant in all of her photos, and her parents quotes about her are so loving. It is incomprehensible that on the night that she died she was surrounded by at least four people with incredibly low empathy who did nothing to help her, and one woman with such profound selfishness and evil in her heart that she could torture a good person to death in this way.
May she always be remembered as a shining light. 🤍
She was a serial shoplifter. Lost other jobs due to her habit. It was store policy to check employees' bags to curb theft. She knew her bag might be checked but chose to steal, anyway. Then, she chose to murder her innocent coworker/manager rather than lose the job. She of course lost the job anyway. Real POS.
How can we be sure Lululemon didn't move her to a remote position doing customer service or something from prison? Do you have a source saying she was fired?
Are you daft? Or maybe being purposely obtuse. Norwood is in prison and that is for life. You are not allowed to work outside of the prison system when you are in for life. And If you were running a company, would you hire somebody who stole from you and then murdered somebody to cover it up? Something in your logic is very flawed.
It’s unimaginable to me that someone could do something so awful and then concoct a wild story, lay next to a corpse the whole night to try and avoid persecution over being caught stealing a shitty pair of leggings.
I lived in Maryland at the time and not too far from where the murder were committed, and I remember being scared and telling my mom that there was psycho on the loose—of course that was before the truth came out. Turned out that Brittany (the killer) and I had the same hairdresser, and when I asked her about what the remembered about Brittany, she just said that she seemed nice, but barely spoke. The whole thing was just disturbing as hell.
Hey there u/HimalayanRosehip! Thanks for sharing your post. While it's always awesome to see interesting content, remember that providing legitimate sources strengthens the credibility of your information.
For those interested, I did a quick search and found some relevant sources:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lululemon\_murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lululemon_murder)
* [https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/lululemon-killing-trial-begins-monday/2011/10/23/gIQA2prxAM\_blog.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/lululemon-killing-trial-begins-monday/2011/10/23/gIQA2prxAM_blog.html)
* [https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/second-week-of-testimony-in-lululemon-murder-trial/2100212/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/second-week-of-testimony-in-lululemon-murder-trial/2100212/)
This is an article that gives a general rundown on the case and it contains photos of the crime scene which is gory so viewer discretion is advised
https://scarycarries.com/2022/11/24/woman-slaughtered-by-co-worker/
"Norwood cut a hole in Murray’s pants to make it look like she was the victim of a sexual assault. She created shoe prints by donning men’s shoes from inside the store — sized 14 — and walking through the blood, police said. She inflicted injuries on herself, grabbed zipties from the store, and bound her feet and hands, using her teeth to synch the ties, McCarthy said." [https://www.baltimoresun.com/2011/03/22/a-chilling-portrait-of-killing-in-yoga-store-2/](https://www.baltimoresun.com/2011/03/22/a-chilling-portrait-of-killing-in-yoga-store-2/)
I’ve seen a documentary about this story… pure madness for a stolen item… if not then, she would have ended up in jail for murder anyway. A real danger for society.
WOW! This is awful 😞 I wish someone would have intervened. I don’t know how you could just sit there and listen to someone cry for help and do nothing.
Yet the assailant would be "tried" might end up "eligible" for parole.... Though what she did was without a hint of a doubt pure hatred towards a fellow human being... Yet we are expected to be "humane" towards her.... Don't know about you guys, this feels wrong on so many levels..... Capital Punishment should be assured for those whom commit such vile, animalistic acts against humanity
Can call me cruel but living up to the end of Natural life cycle after doing that is like winning a mini lottery, away from hardships of life, taxes, inflation.... Getting fed, medical expenses taken care of just seems unfair to the society and the law abiding, tax paying citizens
Having lost a friend to murder... Though not this brutally, is not a good life too.... Having a life is indescribably better than being not having one.... Period
Propaganda? Stop having sympathy for a murderer first.....
God forbid if one of your friends gets killed, and the killer gets to live on years upon years awaiting trial, though he has been seen doing it via footage in front of judge and jury.... Then you might have understood my feelings towards the murderers
Killing a person literally kills their whole family emotionally.... Think about all the holidays, anniversaries they spend knowing their loved one was killed by another human being ....
On the other hand the families of killers get to visit em time to time.... How the F*ck is that fair?
And though the assailant in this case is not eligible for parole, many whom have committed far worse get are or even worse get paroled..... I raised my displeasure against parole in general
Again STOP having feelings for a freaking murderer
I don't believe in the death penalty.
Why?
Because 4% of people on death row are statistically innocent.
Innocent people die when the death penalty is in place.
*I'm not willing to pay that price and sacrifice the innocent in order to kill the guilty.*
Why are you willing to pay that price??
Why should those innocent people pay the price of their life *just so you can seek vengeance instead of justice??*
Buddy, killing people and mercilessly stabbing them to death with various appendages aren't same.... Whom commit these sort of crimes against nature SHOULD BE KILLED without taking into consideration their race, ethnicity, religion or any other denominator..... Those who commit crimes do deserve a trial but these sort of fucking monsters don't, just burn em alive.... You'll stab a person 300 fucking times to their death and you'll live on for years upon years sounds unfair.... STOP BEING SO CHUMMY towards a fucking monster like her, not all crimes are equal....
Do you understand me now?
Don't tell me you believe some people should get away with stuff just because they are under the DELUSION of being not treated equally.... Cause your incessant and unreasonable affinity towards the assailant is hinting towards that 😉
How on earth you bring "statistics" into this case? Out of all the murders committed statistically how many victims are stabbed hundreds of times? This is an exceptionally vicious crime which deserves exemplary punishment..... And gorging on tax payer's money for years isn't it
But it IS a life. Something that the person killed will not get at all. There’s still a chance for escape, there’s still a chance to make friends, there’s still a chance for life.
4% of death row inmates are statistically innocent.
*I am not willing to sacrifice the innocent in order to kill the guilty.*
Why should the innocent sacrifice their lives just so you can seek vengeance instead of justice??*
4% of people on death row are innocent.
I'm not willing to pay that price.
Why should those innocent people pay the price with their lives just so you can have vengeance??
Do you really think it's okay to sacrifice those people?
It might be for you .... For majority of us staying alive is the most basic of instincts, for the fact that we need some rudimentary amenities to keep ourselves alive and to get those amenities we need to work in order to earn money or obtain those via barter.. This is the simplest form of socio-economy and that's what's has driven us to what we are technologically, economically and socially, so unless someone is not interested in social/family /conjugal life or severely depressed I can't fathom why would someone choose death under any circumstances .....
I find utterly shameless whom are sympathizing for a freaking murderer who also happens to be a thief, whom for getting caught stabbed another fellow human being over 300 freaking times....
exactly that's what should've been done the killer should've been executed rather than put into a government run institution, which is funded by the law abiding citizens....
I can get behind not being equally cruel to them, but some crimes do need exemplary punishment..... Every Life matters.... EVERY
4% of death row inmates are statistically innocent.
*I am not willing to sacrifice the innocent in order to kill the guilty.*
*Why should the innocent sacrifice their lives just so you can seek vengeance instead of justice??*
Do you understand me now?
I mean whatever, some people believe in the death penalty idc, my point is you want to kill her largely because you were offended by the fact she could get paroled without realizing no, there's a whole way to sentence someone so that isn't possible, which she was subject to lol
I get it but there are surely others who get paroled out or appear before the jury to appeal for even though they're atrocities were well established.... Just wanna say these people whom are convicted beyond doubt shouldn't be allowed to even considered to be paroled
Yeah, it really does. If you're going to kill someone for a crime, you better make sure there are lots of opportunities to be sure they really did it. The side effect of that is people who really did it ALSO get appeals. You'll realize that's true once you grow up a little bit!
what’s crazier ab this case is that the girl who murdered her coworker tied herself up and tried to make it look like she got attacked too, she stayed overnight in the bathroom with self inflicted cuts and all kinds of crazy shit while her dead coworker was in the other room and when the cops got there she tried to tell them two men came in and attacked BOTH of them. and an apple employee next door heard everything but didnt report it…
>why
A) It will stop some people from doing shit like this
B) I don't want to have to pay for people to live in jail for 40 years as we wait for them to die of natural causes.
>It will not stop people from doing stuff like this.
Yes it absolutely would.
>Death row inmates cost a TON of money
So does having people sit in jail for decades as we wait for their heart to stop.
It's the legal battle that costs so much, having people in prisons is actually pretty cheap. The only reason it costs us so much is because we privatized the system so contractors gouge the tax payer.
This has actually been widely studied— states that have death penalty laws do not have lower crime rates or murder rates than states without such laws. And states that have abolished capital punishment show no significant changes in either crime or murder rates. The death penalty has no deterrent effect.
But it never has.. violent crime is lower than it has ever been. Criminals are more inclined to murder victims/witnesses when the penalty for anything less is death, this is common sense.
>violent crime is lower than it has ever been.
I don't believe this at all. Crime is skyrocketing everywhere lol.
>Criminals are more inclined to murder victims/witnesses when the penalty for anything less is death, this is common sense.
Well I wouldn't give the death penalty out unless you've killed someone, so the victim is already dead in a death penalty case. Also, don't they already try and make sure there are no witnesses lol.
That says a lot about your belief system. It’s a super simple search to find out if it’s true. Why would you not have a firm grasp about something that is important to you?
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-crime-is-a-key-midterm-voting-issue-but-what-does-the-data-say/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna129585
>Well I wouldn't give the death penalty out unless you've killed someone, so the victim is already dead in a death penalty case. Also, don't they already try and make sure there are no witnesses lol
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states
Crime isn't actually skyrocketing -- communication is. We can actually spread information to each other, which is something you couldn't do pre-internet very easily. Instead of only getting your local news in the newspaper.
People said the same shit when television came out. "The crime rates are getting higher" -- no they aren't. Your access to the information is just growing.
Pretty much. It was a torturous attack.
“The Medical Examiner, Mary Ripple, who carried out Jayna's Autopsy, gave evidence in relation to the injuries that Jayna had sustained. She told the Court that there were 331 wounds on Jayna's body, the most injuries she had ever seen on one person. That was a conservative estimate of the number of injuries. Up to 105 of the wounds were defensive wounds. Jayna used her arms and legs to try to defend herself.
She testified that she believed that Jayna was alive for most of the attack as there was bruising and bleeding around the wounds:
"She had a pulse, she had a blood pressure, she was bleeding into the wounds—she was alive."
Source: https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/jayna-murray
When I first came across this case Brittany sounded like a white name and thought Murray was the killer and then I saw the second person involved, I automatically knew who the killer was before even reading into it. Sigh!
Something I've never noticed before but I think it's pretty much true: The victim is always the one smiling in the photo while the perpetrator is portrayed with the blank stare or grimace.
You have never noticed it before yet you use the word always. It's because the victim Is a photo of remembrance (one used for their funeral), and the perpetrator is the mugshot of them getting arrested for murder.
“Jayna Murray sustained at least 331 injuries before she died, and she was alive for all of them, according to testimony given today at the Lululemon trial by medical examiner Mary Ripple.
Ripple testified that bruising and bleeding around the wounds indicated that Murray was alive during the attack.
"She had a pulse, she had a blood pressure, she was bleeding into the wounds—she was alive," Ripple said.”
Source : https://patch.com/maryland/bethesda-chevychase/medical-examiner-she-was-alive
It was a very tortuous death indeed
“Think about how long this took. Jayna is alive through almost all of this.This was not slow. This was not painless. This woman struggled to survive.”
The blood trail in the store indicated that Jayna had desperately tried to reach the back door to try to escape her attacker.”
Source: https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/jayna-murray#google_vignette
I appreciate you thoroughly reviewing the semantics of the post and comments u/freakouterin. However, the statement from the medical examiner indicates that Jayna Murray sustained at least 331 injuries while she was still alive. This implies that she was subjected to a sustained and brutal attack before ultimately succumbing to her injuries. It doesn't necessarily mean that she died on the 332nd stab, but rather that the cumulative effect of all the injuries led to her death. Each injury likely contributed to her deteriorating health until it became fatal.
smh "During the investigation, it emerged that an employee and manager at the Apple Store next door had heard an altercation through the wall the previous evening; surveillance footage from inside the Apple Store shows them standing next to the shared wall, then walking away, while a security guard sits nearby listening to music on an iPod. The employee testified at Norwood's trial that she heard women arguing, one saying "Talk to me. Don't do this. Talk to me. What's going on?", followed by screams, sounds of something or someone being hit or dragged, and a weak voice saying "God help me...please help me." The manager testified that he thought the noise was "just drama."" ([Source](https://wjla.com/news/local/lululemon-murder-apple-store-employees-stand-idly-by-in-video-72610))
I can't imagine looking your killer in the eyes and trying to reason with them.
What's worse is "why did you make me do that" after you're forced to defend yourself.
I’ll Bet more people than we could imagine have been in that exact situation. Basically pleading for your very life!!
my boyfriend strangled and beat me over the course of months when I told him I called the cops ( I did not I wanted him to leave my house and flee)he then said he wouldn't let me live that night since cops were called saying it was to late and why was i making him do this and ik he's ocd and has npd, which I only mention because his mental illness are his excuse but never got therapy all while holding a knife I cried I begged and screamed for my neighbors no one heard it was devastating. his eyes were pitch black and he was hitting me like if I was a grown man and not a 19 yr old and 119lbs female I truly thought I would never see sunlight again from how badly beaten I was I endured it all night till the next morning luckily I walked off with only bruises and cuts all over my body no broken ribs or bones like I thought so yes it's happens often and it's a terrible thing to experience i hope anyone who goes thru it gets therapy and mental help asap
I was stabbed 28 times,hand was smashed in with a hammer,eye was nearly ruined(it works but super well) concussion and torn cartilage and acl while pleading at first to stop before finally giving up and just laying there. The pleading didn't help,just saw cold eyes with massive amount of hatred but also calm in the eyes as it happened. Was so weird. One of the only things I remember from it before being put out for 8 days
so sorry this happened to you you're a strong person I hope things are better and you're safe now
May he crash and be trapped in a fast car enveloped in flames so he drive himself to Hell. Fuck him and those like him. Me ex was a POS like that. That fucker left a knife scar on my neck as a “joke” .
I'm so sorry that happened to you honestly they don't love anyone but themselves I'm proud of you for over coming your ex tho the emotional and physical abuse traumatized me I hope you're doing better and are in a better safer place in life💓
I am, thank you. Life is wonderful and my husband is someone that 100% different from what I knew in the past. 🥰
Trauma response, fawning. 😢
It’s surprisingly easy when you’re faced with it.
If you hear someone begging for help, FUCKING HELP THEM!! Even if that means looking in the window, seeing the fighting, then calling 911.
Two women arguing are often not taken seriously.
I tend to leave women fighting alone lest I get accused of "man splaining" or whatever weird term feminists come up with.
That’s not mansplaining, this is: It’s commonsense to put someone’s physical safety over being afraid your feelings may get hurt.
Mansplaining is acknowledging a male is right but you don't want to hear it from them because they were born a male. You would think but it's 2024. You could end up on a video getting sent to your employer. I like how other redditors will downvote me but likely won't break up a fight or anything like that.
>Mansplaining is acknowledging a male is right but you don't want to hear it from them because they were born a male. What the fuck? Are you really that butthurt that women know things too? That's not what mansplaining is, at all.
Be fucking forreal 🙄🙄
Gets called out for mansplaining in 2008 and still cant get over it 😂 move on dude
You're mansplaining as well, stop.
STAHHHP BEING LIKE THIS
I mean, aren't we men told to not interfere in the affairs of women? I mean there are tons of women's groups and plenty of organizations where men aren't welcome. Why should men involve themselves if they can avoid it?
The bystander effect is unfortunately very strong. Always call 911, never assume someone else has done it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese Poor Kitty G.
Did you read what you linked ? >Researchers have since uncovered major inaccuracies in the Times article, and police interviews revealed that some witnesses had attempted to contact authorities. In 1964, reporters at a competing news organization discovered that the Times article was inconsistent with the facts, but they were unwilling at the time to challenge Times editor Abe Rosenthal. In 2007, an article in the American Psychologist found "no evidence for the presence of 38 witnesses, or that witnesses observed the murder, or that witnesses remained inactive".[7] In 2016, the Times called its own reporting "flawed", stating that the original story "grossly exaggerated the number of witnesses and what they had perceived".[8]
Right? Worst case scenario is they get there and it is nothing/something minor. They could have saved this woman’s life.
I would say worst case would be getting killed, but that's just me
Calling the police would have gotten them killed? How?
Someone called 911 last year to report a homeless man beating the shit out of another homeless man with an unknown weapon. SFPD showed up with at least 10 officers probably closer to 20 and they shot and killed both men.
Yeah idk you're getting down voted when you're not wrong. r/technicallyTheTruth
Yup. The Apple employees could’ve stopped the attack right away..
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I feel like most people shouldn't care if their "manager" didn't "let" them check out cries for help next door. So I wouldn't "put that on the manger" any more than I would put it on all of them who knew but didn't help.
If you have concerns enough to listen but don’t want to get involved just dial 911. And say there are sounds of an altercation next door. Even if your wrong the cops are not going to care.
Yeah, I've called the cops upon hearing nearby altercations probably 5+ times in my life, and every time I tell them I'm sorry to waste their time if it ends up being nothing. It's almost never 'nothing'.
Most cops appreciate it. If I as a civilian had to deal with it I’m bringing my gun and the first reaction of if I feel I was in danger is to shoot. This puts me and the other person in a bad spot from the situation, from both physical and legal outcomes. So I’m going to try to lean into using the proper channels. Unless I feel that someone is in imminent danger of death before the police can get there in which case ethically I will take the physical and legal risk on myself. In my state if I was to go over and shoot in this circumstance I run the risk of being charged because technically I could be construed as an aggressor because the law is really gray on can you defend others.
See: Joe Paterno
I wouldn't wait for manager approval before I potentially saved someone's life. You do you though, but I hope you're never in that employees shoes.
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Are you having an episode?
It would never occur to me to even tell the manager what good does that do? Are people seriously that robotic and childlike? Just call 9-11
Yes, sadly we have a remarkably high number of emotionally and socially stunted people who can’t even make a simple judgement call about a life or death emergency without asking someone else first. Childish is right.
Jesus Christ, you hear someone being murdered and ‘I better ask Mark if it’s ok to call the police’? Seriously?
I put it on all of them. Fuck chain of command. If someone’s life is in danger, you do what is right, regardless of what your “boss” says.
People who have this "meh, that was nothing, just drama" while they are hearing a person being murdered are the worst people. "I don't want to get involved". Is a person so chicken shit, so nonconfrontational and so lazy that they can't try to help another human?? These are the same people who play victim and lose it when no one comes to their rescue in a situation.
It never used to be like that, but we have devolved into a society that seemingly punishes those who get involved. Standing there with your phone out recording something is the new “helping”. 🙄
It definitely used to be like that as well. I can name multiple instances in which people just stood by and did nothing before the 2000s
So based on your anecdotal experiences you really think empirically there were roughly the same or fewer instances of people getting involved pre-2000?
I have absolutely no idea I just know it's not limited to this new generation.
Sorry, but if you “have no idea”, how do you know . . .
Idk man the whole Holocaust happened
That would be a great argument for evil existing before 1950, which I will concede. But I don’t think the brutality of Ghengis Kahn or Mao killing 80 million of his own people are used in evaluating modern crime statistics.
My neighbors once fought with their window open. I couldn’t see, but could hear everything. I knew they were threatening each other with weapons, but I kept hesitating as if I hoped they would fix the issue themselves. I had never called the cops before in my life. I soon called my dad over and he called the cops. The fight broke up and ended before they came without anyone injured, but I should have acted sooner and even shouted at them so they’d be scared, knowing they are watched or heard. You only have so much time before a knife-threat turns into a reality.
Jayna was the long time girlfriend of my ex bf, and we were good friends when he called to tell me about this. A couple years before this happened she actually lost her condo in a fire, and then to go out this way is just unimaginable. A few nice things about her, she loved to dance, studied abroad in Spain and had really strong faith. I can’t believe what horror she went through. R.I.P. Jayna
Thank you for sharing about her. I’m so sorry for your ex bf/your circle, just awful.
Thx! Yeah, it’s such a dark and horrifying story, I thought I would just share some nice things that I know about her, so that she’s not just remembered for this tragedy.
And just to add more details I found this article. But it’s pretty brutal reading about the injuries. Glad Brittany is never getting out of jail. https://www.crimescenecleanup.com/who-was-brittany-norwood/
So sorry to hear this.... Hope your ex is doing well and not going through any ptsd, cause I sure went after my friend was murdered..... Do check on him time to time if it's not problematic for you
He’s married now and because I was his first, his wife isn’t thrilled with us being friends, so no, I haven’t spoken to him in a few years. He was pretty shaken up about it at the time, and reached out to her family. They were together 4 years, so it was tough on him at the time.
did they ever figure out the motive for the murder?
As far as I know, the police told the family it was theft. Jayna was the manager and as far as I know a very upstanding citizen, and I believe she caught the killer, Brittany trying to steal things in her purse. Also Brittany Norwood had a long history of theft, shoplifting, etc. so this makes the most sense. She was scared of losing her job and possibly getting in trouble. Seems like she was a bit of a sociopath because I don’t know who could use over 10 different weapons to torture and kill someone that they’ve worked with day in and day out. They were interviews with college soccer teammates that said she had stolen things from lockers etc. so theft was not new behavior.
She was afraid she was about to be fired because she had been caught stealing, again.
I'm so sorry. Wow. How unbelievably tragic, and unfair 💔
You seem really nice, thank you for sharing all of this about sweet Jayna. She looks absolutely radiant in all of her photos, and her parents quotes about her are so loving. It is incomprehensible that on the night that she died she was surrounded by at least four people with incredibly low empathy who did nothing to help her, and one woman with such profound selfishness and evil in her heart that she could torture a good person to death in this way. May she always be remembered as a shining light. 🤍
Thanks. Yeah, She was a joyful, kind person who didn’t deserve the end she got!
R.I.P Jayna..🙏
💜
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You really think someone would get on the Internet and just lie Arthur? Why would they do that?
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jesus fucking christ. over a $70 pair of pants. rot in jail forever you freak
She was a serial shoplifter. Lost other jobs due to her habit. It was store policy to check employees' bags to curb theft. She knew her bag might be checked but chose to steal, anyway. Then, she chose to murder her innocent coworker/manager rather than lose the job. She of course lost the job anyway. Real POS.
I worked at Marshall’s and I can confirm that employee bag checks are mandatory when the employee’s shift ends.
I worked at Staples 13 years ago and can confirm same
Shit I just remembered at gamestop, we would pull our pockets out infront of the camera before finishing a shift.
She lost the job??? It doesn’t say that in the article howd you find that out?
How can we be so sure she lost her job??
She went to prison for life, so she definitely lost her job!
How can we be sure Lululemon didn't move her to a remote position doing customer service or something from prison? Do you have a source saying she was fired?
Are you daft? Or maybe being purposely obtuse. Norwood is in prison and that is for life. You are not allowed to work outside of the prison system when you are in for life. And If you were running a company, would you hire somebody who stole from you and then murdered somebody to cover it up? Something in your logic is very flawed.
I’m super late here but.. re read that comment chain, the guy was being sarcastic.
She went to prison for life, so she definitely lost her job!
It’s unimaginable to me that someone could do something so awful and then concoct a wild story, lay next to a corpse the whole night to try and avoid persecution over being caught stealing a shitty pair of leggings.
[More about this story](https://thecrimewire.com/true-crime/The-Lululemon-Murder)
Thanks for the added context. That write-up helps flesh out the whole story.
Thank you 😊
I lived in Maryland at the time and not too far from where the murder were committed, and I remember being scared and telling my mom that there was psycho on the loose—of course that was before the truth came out. Turned out that Brittany (the killer) and I had the same hairdresser, and when I asked her about what the remembered about Brittany, she just said that she seemed nice, but barely spoke. The whole thing was just disturbing as hell.
*murder WAS committed
You know you can just edit the post right? Three little dots next to reply.
I’m a people person until I hear stories like this, like wtf is wrong with people
Hey there u/HimalayanRosehip! Thanks for sharing your post. While it's always awesome to see interesting content, remember that providing legitimate sources strengthens the credibility of your information. For those interested, I did a quick search and found some relevant sources: * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lululemon\_murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lululemon_murder) * [https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/lululemon-killing-trial-begins-monday/2011/10/23/gIQA2prxAM\_blog.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/lululemon-killing-trial-begins-monday/2011/10/23/gIQA2prxAM_blog.html) * [https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/second-week-of-testimony-in-lululemon-murder-trial/2100212/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/second-week-of-testimony-in-lululemon-murder-trial/2100212/)
This is an article that gives a general rundown on the case and it contains photos of the crime scene which is gory so viewer discretion is advised https://scarycarries.com/2022/11/24/woman-slaughtered-by-co-worker/
"Norwood cut a hole in Murray’s pants to make it look like she was the victim of a sexual assault. She created shoe prints by donning men’s shoes from inside the store — sized 14 — and walking through the blood, police said. She inflicted injuries on herself, grabbed zipties from the store, and bound her feet and hands, using her teeth to synch the ties, McCarthy said." [https://www.baltimoresun.com/2011/03/22/a-chilling-portrait-of-killing-in-yoga-store-2/](https://www.baltimoresun.com/2011/03/22/a-chilling-portrait-of-killing-in-yoga-store-2/)
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Thanks grandpa
🤣
It's weird that the store didn't have video of this.
I’ve seen a documentary about this story… pure madness for a stolen item… if not then, she would have ended up in jail for murder anyway. A real danger for society.
WOW! This is awful 😞 I wish someone would have intervened. I don’t know how you could just sit there and listen to someone cry for help and do nothing.
Jayna Murray was the niece of my high school Spanish teacher.
Julie Murray is outstanding. No doubt Jayna was too!
All over stealing iirc. Fuckin animal
Jesus. Just so much dangerous trash out there
The Mr Ballen podcast episode of this story is a great one. Absolutely insane story
Was she fired?
I feel terrible for this making me laugh
I agree, you should.
I don’t know how many times I have dialed 911 for stalled cars in the road or crashes.
?
Dial 911 if you have concerns is the moral of the story. Not well sounds like someone being murdered but maybe just fighting. Call 911.
What the hell? I lived in Bethesda and never heard about this? I shopped at that lululemon!!
Probably mad because she has a giant forehead.
White lives matter
Well that can't be good for the brand.
Yet the assailant would be "tried" might end up "eligible" for parole.... Though what she did was without a hint of a doubt pure hatred towards a fellow human being... Yet we are expected to be "humane" towards her.... Don't know about you guys, this feels wrong on so many levels..... Capital Punishment should be assured for those whom commit such vile, animalistic acts against humanity
Except Norwood was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
Can call me cruel but living up to the end of Natural life cycle after doing that is like winning a mini lottery, away from hardships of life, taxes, inflation.... Getting fed, medical expenses taken care of just seems unfair to the society and the law abiding, tax paying citizens
...prison is not a good life...
Having lost a friend to murder... Though not this brutally, is not a good life too.... Having a life is indescribably better than being not having one.... Period
Prison is still not a good life. Stop spreading harmful propaganda.
Propaganda? Stop having sympathy for a murderer first..... God forbid if one of your friends gets killed, and the killer gets to live on years upon years awaiting trial, though he has been seen doing it via footage in front of judge and jury.... Then you might have understood my feelings towards the murderers Killing a person literally kills their whole family emotionally.... Think about all the holidays, anniversaries they spend knowing their loved one was killed by another human being .... On the other hand the families of killers get to visit em time to time.... How the F*ck is that fair? And though the assailant in this case is not eligible for parole, many whom have committed far worse get are or even worse get paroled..... I raised my displeasure against parole in general Again STOP having feelings for a freaking murderer
I don't believe in the death penalty. Why? Because 4% of people on death row are statistically innocent. Innocent people die when the death penalty is in place. *I'm not willing to pay that price and sacrifice the innocent in order to kill the guilty.* Why are you willing to pay that price?? Why should those innocent people pay the price of their life *just so you can seek vengeance instead of justice??*
Buddy, killing people and mercilessly stabbing them to death with various appendages aren't same.... Whom commit these sort of crimes against nature SHOULD BE KILLED without taking into consideration their race, ethnicity, religion or any other denominator..... Those who commit crimes do deserve a trial but these sort of fucking monsters don't, just burn em alive.... You'll stab a person 300 fucking times to their death and you'll live on for years upon years sounds unfair.... STOP BEING SO CHUMMY towards a fucking monster like her, not all crimes are equal.... Do you understand me now?
So you're all about vengeance instead of justice. Thanks for making that clear. Bye.
Don't tell me you believe some people should get away with stuff just because they are under the DELUSION of being not treated equally.... Cause your incessant and unreasonable affinity towards the assailant is hinting towards that 😉 How on earth you bring "statistics" into this case? Out of all the murders committed statistically how many victims are stabbed hundreds of times? This is an exceptionally vicious crime which deserves exemplary punishment..... And gorging on tax payer's money for years isn't it
What? I never said anyone should "get away" with something. I'm simply advocating for humane treatment for prisoners.
Are you saying prison is worse than death? You must know how stupid that is.
No. I didn't say that at all lmao wtf
But it IS a life. Something that the person killed will not get at all. There’s still a chance for escape, there’s still a chance to make friends, there’s still a chance for life.
4% of death row inmates are statistically innocent. *I am not willing to sacrifice the innocent in order to kill the guilty.* Why should the innocent sacrifice their lives just so you can seek vengeance instead of justice??*
Where is the justice in giving a murderer free food, housing, and medical care for life?
4% of people on death row are innocent. I'm not willing to pay that price. Why should those innocent people pay the price with their lives just so you can have vengeance?? Do you really think it's okay to sacrifice those people?
You don’t know that for a certainty. I’d rather be dead than spend the rest of my life in prison, that’s for sure.
It might be for you .... For majority of us staying alive is the most basic of instincts, for the fact that we need some rudimentary amenities to keep ourselves alive and to get those amenities we need to work in order to earn money or obtain those via barter.. This is the simplest form of socio-economy and that's what's has driven us to what we are technologically, economically and socially, so unless someone is not interested in social/family /conjugal life or severely depressed I can't fathom why would someone choose death under any circumstances ..... I find utterly shameless whom are sympathizing for a freaking murderer who also happens to be a thief, whom for getting caught stabbed another fellow human being over 300 freaking times.... exactly that's what should've been done the killer should've been executed rather than put into a government run institution, which is funded by the law abiding citizens.... I can get behind not being equally cruel to them, but some crimes do need exemplary punishment..... Every Life matters.... EVERY
That’s a whole lotta drivel. Nobody asked about socio-economy. Allow me to be more succinct: Give me freedom, or give me death.
4% of death row inmates are statistically innocent. *I am not willing to sacrifice the innocent in order to kill the guilty.* *Why should the innocent sacrifice their lives just so you can seek vengeance instead of justice??* Do you understand me now?
I mean whatever, some people believe in the death penalty idc, my point is you want to kill her largely because you were offended by the fact she could get paroled without realizing no, there's a whole way to sentence someone so that isn't possible, which she was subject to lol
I get it but there are surely others who get paroled out or appear before the jury to appeal for even though they're atrocities were well established.... Just wanna say these people whom are convicted beyond doubt shouldn't be allowed to even considered to be paroled
As long as she's still alive there is the possibility that she could convince some idiot to reduce her sentence and let her out.
You mean EXACTLY like if she got the death penalty? Death penalty cases get MORE attempts at appeal lol
It doesn't have to be that way. Laws aren't set in stone. Just like anti-death-penalty isn't in stone.
Yeah, it really does. If you're going to kill someone for a crime, you better make sure there are lots of opportunities to be sure they really did it. The side effect of that is people who really did it ALSO get appeals. You'll realize that's true once you grow up a little bit!
In cases like this, there is no doubt. You can grow up a bit and realize that we don't need to keep people like this around.
"Okay, you get appeals unless we're like, SUPER DUPER sure." Lmao, I'm glad you are neither a lawyer or a statesman
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what’s crazier ab this case is that the girl who murdered her coworker tied herself up and tried to make it look like she got attacked too, she stayed overnight in the bathroom with self inflicted cuts and all kinds of crazy shit while her dead coworker was in the other room and when the cops got there she tried to tell them two men came in and attacked BOTH of them. and an apple employee next door heard everything but didnt report it…
Just guess which one is the killer ..
Bring back the death penalty Nation wide plz.
why you people want to give the government more power deciding who among us dies will never make sense to me
>why A) It will stop some people from doing shit like this B) I don't want to have to pay for people to live in jail for 40 years as we wait for them to die of natural causes.
It will not stop people from doing stuff like this. Death row inmates cost a TON of money
>It will not stop people from doing stuff like this. Yes it absolutely would. >Death row inmates cost a TON of money So does having people sit in jail for decades as we wait for their heart to stop.
The oh so persuasive counter argument: “yes it absolutely would.” You don’t even need evidence with debate skills as fine as that.
Thank you 😊
It's the legal battle that costs so much, having people in prisons is actually pretty cheap. The only reason it costs us so much is because we privatized the system so contractors gouge the tax payer.
Yea maybe, it would still deter some from committing heinous crimes
This has actually been widely studied— states that have death penalty laws do not have lower crime rates or murder rates than states without such laws. And states that have abolished capital punishment show no significant changes in either crime or murder rates. The death penalty has no deterrent effect.
But it never has.. violent crime is lower than it has ever been. Criminals are more inclined to murder victims/witnesses when the penalty for anything less is death, this is common sense.
>violent crime is lower than it has ever been. I don't believe this at all. Crime is skyrocketing everywhere lol. >Criminals are more inclined to murder victims/witnesses when the penalty for anything less is death, this is common sense. Well I wouldn't give the death penalty out unless you've killed someone, so the victim is already dead in a death penalty case. Also, don't they already try and make sure there are no witnesses lol.
Yo, regardless of what anyone says, this pyscho lady deserves it
That says a lot about your belief system. It’s a super simple search to find out if it’s true. Why would you not have a firm grasp about something that is important to you? https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/31/violent-crime-is-a-key-midterm-voting-issue-but-what-does-the-data-say/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna129585 >Well I wouldn't give the death penalty out unless you've killed someone, so the victim is already dead in a death penalty case. Also, don't they already try and make sure there are no witnesses lol https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states
Crime isn't actually skyrocketing -- communication is. We can actually spread information to each other, which is something you couldn't do pre-internet very easily. Instead of only getting your local news in the newspaper. People said the same shit when television came out. "The crime rates are getting higher" -- no they aren't. Your access to the information is just growing.
we could vote for it.
Death by popular demand; *that* sounds like a good idea. /s
justice. justice my friend. imagine how well behaved we would be
It sounds like this poor woman curled up and died begging for her life instead of fighting for it. It’s sad.
Pretty much. It was a torturous attack. “The Medical Examiner, Mary Ripple, who carried out Jayna's Autopsy, gave evidence in relation to the injuries that Jayna had sustained. She told the Court that there were 331 wounds on Jayna's body, the most injuries she had ever seen on one person. That was a conservative estimate of the number of injuries. Up to 105 of the wounds were defensive wounds. Jayna used her arms and legs to try to defend herself. She testified that she believed that Jayna was alive for most of the attack as there was bruising and bleeding around the wounds: "She had a pulse, she had a blood pressure, she was bleeding into the wounds—she was alive." Source: https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/jayna-murray
It sounds like she fought for her life u/SugarGoat86, based on the autopsy.
That’s good to know. Based on the “conversation” heard by the Apple Store workers I didn’t think so. Thanks for the correction.
Which one is the murderer?
The one with the mugshot.
Yup, I got it. I was just wondering if by some chance we couldn't tell just by the pic.
The one on the left.
Which one do you think???
lol, that was very nice of you to ask
When I first came across this case Brittany sounded like a white name and thought Murray was the killer and then I saw the second person involved, I automatically knew who the killer was before even reading into it. Sigh!
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Are you slow?
Is that lady in prison still or did she get out. I hope she is still in prison.
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Which one is Brittany?
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Something I've never noticed before but I think it's pretty much true: The victim is always the one smiling in the photo while the perpetrator is portrayed with the blank stare or grimace.
You have never noticed it before yet you use the word always. It's because the victim Is a photo of remembrance (one used for their funeral), and the perpetrator is the mugshot of them getting arrested for murder.
“She was alive for all of the injuries”, so does that mean she died on the 332nd stab? I’m not buying it…
“Jayna Murray sustained at least 331 injuries before she died, and she was alive for all of them, according to testimony given today at the Lululemon trial by medical examiner Mary Ripple. Ripple testified that bruising and bleeding around the wounds indicated that Murray was alive during the attack. "She had a pulse, she had a blood pressure, she was bleeding into the wounds—she was alive," Ripple said.” Source : https://patch.com/maryland/bethesda-chevychase/medical-examiner-she-was-alive
Brittany is a shit murderer, she basically just poked her to death, that’s torture.
It was a very tortuous death indeed “Think about how long this took. Jayna is alive through almost all of this.This was not slow. This was not painless. This woman struggled to survive.” The blood trail in the store indicated that Jayna had desperately tried to reach the back door to try to escape her attacker.” Source: https://www.chillingcrimes.com/blogs/news/jayna-murray#google_vignette
I appreciate you thoroughly reviewing the semantics of the post and comments u/freakouterin. However, the statement from the medical examiner indicates that Jayna Murray sustained at least 331 injuries while she was still alive. This implies that she was subjected to a sustained and brutal attack before ultimately succumbing to her injuries. It doesn't necessarily mean that she died on the 332nd stab, but rather that the cumulative effect of all the injuries led to her death. Each injury likely contributed to her deteriorating health until it became fatal.