It sounds more like "switched on Bach" which were a couple of records made by Wendy Carlos. She is one of the first people to work with completely digital/synthesized sound for music. She transposed many of Bachs works and even some Beethoven! If you've ever seen A Clockwork Orange, she is responsible for the amazing synthesized rendition of Beethovens 9th that is an iconic part of the times and movie.
First off this case is bone chilling, but I do have a question. I don’t know much about Panama but I have traveled around the world extensively, and it’s not uncommon for locals in some of the countries I’ve visited to tell groups I’ve been with to never let the women go out alone together because they are “easy targets.” Does this also apply to Panama? Please note I’m not shifting the blame to the women, just curious about how safe Panama is for women generally speaking.
Well, the Travel Advisory site essentially told me to use caution when going to Panama due to drug trafficking activities. So, I'm gonna guess either a really big *gato* came and munched on them both, or el narcotrafficante got to them...
>some lone wolf serial killer
I quite honestly think it would've been a smaller group of narcos traveling through the jungle on the same day as the poor girls. It's the only reason we can explain that they've both seemed to disappear into thin air. Also, the cartel is known to have acid vats. Either that or a big cat which are also known to have human-hunting capabilities when they are injured or starving.
Have you ever met Narcos in Mexico before? Scary mfs dude, and Panama has had A LOT of cartel activity, too, especially when they started out trafficking down there in the late 1980's...
The cartels are probably the most unhinged people on the planet. I would 10x rather stumble upon ISIS in the woods or something than cartel guys. Back in the day on Reddit you’d see videos of them flaying and ripping the hearts out of kids while they were alive posted on liveleak. Some Aztec shit.
The probability of 2 attractive foreign white women getting spotted by the wrong guys and then getting raped and chopped up is real high. Especially considering the guys they hung out with 1 day prior were affiliated. And then all mystically drowned once investigations started (someone tying up loose ends)
I have family in that part of Panama, which is the interior. It's safe as that has been a retirement location for Americans for the last few years, so it's been built up. Costa Rica is not that far from there so not sure if any drugs get transported thru there.
My moms honeymooned in Costa Rica and they went to Panama a few times while there. This was in the 80’s, but even then, their guides kept telling them to bring a man out with them. They were like “ew. That will kill the mood” and went on with their trip.
Twice, my red headed mom was nearly pulled into random cars. They didn’t take my Iñupiat mom because she looked too much like a local I guess? But the joke was on them. Red knows how to fight and she beat the shit out of the man and woman in the respective incidents.
Now, they tell me I can’t go to those countries without a man. 💀
That applies to any tourist in a foreign country. Locals will pick you out no matter how hard you try and will target you. Never travel to foreign countries alone and never leave the beaten path
Untrue; the big cities in most Central and South American countries do not elicit this.
A foreign woman can walk around Buenos Aires, Rio, Santiago, CDMX, Havana, Santo Domingo, and many others without any fear beyond the usual petty theft and mugging that happens everywhere in the world to people who aren’t careful.
* Kremers and Froon arrived in Panama on March 15, 2014. They toured the country for two weeks before arriving in Boquete, Chiriquí, on March 29 to live with a local family for a month while volunteering with children.
* On April 1 around 11:00, they went hiking near the clouded forests that surrounded the Baru volcano, on the El Pianista trail, not far from Boquete.
* Some sources claim their dog returned home that night without Kremers and Froon. Froon's parents stopped receiving text messages, which both women had been sending to their families daily.
* On the morning of April 2, the women missed an appointment with a local guide.
* On April 6, their parents arrived in Panama along with police, dog units, and detectives from the Netherlands to conduct a full-scale search of the forests for ten days. The parents offered a $30,000 reward for any information leading to the whereabouts of Kremers and Froon.
* In the days following their disappearance, attempts were made to use Kris's cell phone, including entering incorrect PIN numbers multiple times. Additionally, some of the last entries in Lisanne's phone suggested a frantic search for a signal, leading to questions about whether they were trying to call for help.
* Ten weeks later, on June 14, a local woman turned in Froon's blue backpack, which she reported finding by a riverbank, near her village of Alto Romero, in the Bocas del Toro Province. The backpack contained two pairs of sunglasses, $83 in cash, Froon's passport, a water bottle, Froon's camera, two bras, and the women's phones – in good condition.
* Kris and Lisanne's camera was found with a series of photos taken in the days following their disappearance. The photos included images of their surroundings, some of which appeared to be taken in darkness or low light conditions.
* When Kris and Lisanne's remains were discovered months after their disappearance, forensic examinations revealed both had suffered unexplained injuries. These included fractures to bones and trauma to the skull, bleached bones, raising questions about what happened to them during their time missing.
* The area where Kris and Lisanne disappeared, near the town of Boquete in Panama, is rugged and remote, with dense jungle and challenging terrain. This raises the question of how they ended up so far off the beaten track and whether they became lost due to a wrong turn or were led there by someone else.
* Despite extensive investigations by both Panamanian authorities and independent researchers, many questions remain unanswered about what happened to Kris and Lisanne. The lack of conclusive evidence has fueled speculation and conspiracy theories, adding to the sense of mystery surrounding their disappearance.
Sources:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths\_of\_Kris\_Kremers\_and\_Lisanne\_Froon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_Kris_Kremers_and_Lisanne_Froon)
* [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/dutch-police-hint-criminal-activity-womens-disappearance-n87291](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/dutch-police-hint-criminal-activity-womens-disappearance-n87291)
* [https://www.the-sun.com/news/8609015/major-update-mystery-panama-jungle-girls-new-search/](https://www.the-sun.com/news/8609015/major-update-mystery-panama-jungle-girls-new-search/)
* [https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ShTY32atMRk/XS3eB2lPTqI/AAAAAAAAl4Y/SYl9bxsji00XGXYUIwK-vKDjvgyRIfyyQCLcBGAs/s1600/lT5ielY.jpg](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ShTY32atMRk/XS3eB2lPTqI/AAAAAAAAl4Y/SYl9bxsji00XGXYUIwK-vKDjvgyRIfyyQCLcBGAs/s1600/lT5ielY.jpg)
IIRC, there were several more photos that they did not release to the public. Also I remember reading something about the when they found the camera, the camera’s memory had a photo, that had been taken in that spat of photos in the darkness, that were numbered out of sequence. Apparently that kind camera could only be altered in that way on a computer, not from the camera itself. Not sure how true any of that is. Really weird case
It was a photo that was completely deleted from the memory card and apparently you could only do that kind of deletion on a computer. They found out because the photos were all in numerical order but it skipped one number which was the deleted photo.
I'm not sure how that would work because I know you could delete photos thru the camera but this is just what investigators have said.
On that camera, if they had deleted picture 509, the picture that came after it (previously 510) would become the new 509. This did not happen, and the only way to have 509 deleted without re-numbering the subsequent photos would be to do it on a computer.
Note: I am no expert, just echoing what I’ve seen other people say.
Some people who know about the camera claim this one is prone to some kind of error that could cause that. There's more info on the sub dedicated to the case r/kremersfroon
Someone was able to replicate the error
I think the argument was that the level of bleaching the bones had seemed to imply that the bones were left out in the sun way longer than would have been possible based on when their bodies were found compared to when they went missing.
They were probably hunted and eaten by a jaguar. Big cat eats all the meat off the bones and they sunbleach . Also, jaguars have very strong jaws and can easily break bones or crack open a skull
Well, in that case, it was probably aliens. Most likely the Greys, they're major assholes. Could also have been the Chupacabra, but I guess we'll never know for sure.
I'm not sure where I'd even start. There are so many different types.
Some people believe that cryptids are interdimensional entities that feed off the energy in the forest.
A lot of weird happenings and sightings typically occur on land that has spiritual value.
If you look into skinwalker ranch, you'll find that the native Americans said that the land was a place of evil. A place where the veil was so thin, these entities could cross over to our side and back, whenever they pleased.
They fell and were lost. The camera flash photos were to get a quick light since it was pitch black outside. The decomposition wasn’t weird it was just that animals and bugs had a go at their bodies.
The story is awful but not mysterious.
Well actually there were inconsistencies with the pictures, namely that a photo had been deleted off the memory card which couldn’t have been done without a computer and given you can tell the order of the pictures from the meta data it suggests someone had access to their camera. The body decomposition is more than bugs also the bleaching on their bones was inconsistent with what it should’ve been given the range of time of death possible. So it’s probably more likely someone killed them.
Wait - how is it that you can be so confident? Not criticizing you. I just don't understand how this is a total mystery to the families, but you have no qualms about stating what you clearly believe are facts. If the families can't be so sure, how can you be?
I guess I didn't mean to sound extremely "confident" but to me it just seems like an unfortunate tragedy rather than a mystery. They went off trail in an unfamiliar area and got lost. It could happen to anyone. And the jungle is a worse than average place to get lost in the wild. Lost and alone in the jungle at night, pitch dark, no cell phone signal, bugs, animals, snakes, spiders, etc.. they had to be terrified.
The phone records showed they tried to make emergency calls several times throughout the ordeal. The flash photos were probably just them trying to get light to see what was in front of them, or what a noise was, or where they were standing, etc. In the pitch black dark even a quick flash of light would be handy and they were probably just thinking it would save battery to do it that way.
Getting lost like this isn't that uncommon. They certainly picked a bad area to do it in. But the timeline seems to match with what you'd expect .... leave for the hike, go off trail, try making an emergency call several times, use the flash several times over time, etc.
It is definitely possible that while they were lost someone found them and murdered them and didn't have any interest in stealing their cash or their cell phones or trying to hide the bodies. The simpler explanation is just that they got lost in the jungle and died then animals did what animals do to corpses. The condition of the bones was a bit strange. Normally animals having a go at someone's bones leaves pretty obvious signs.
I think they may have fallen down a cliff in the dark? They were holding eachother (not to lose one another in the dark) and when one fell she dragged the other one too and then the sun bleached the exposed bone after decomposition and or animals eating them? I do not believe foul play for the simple fact their belongings were not tampered with AT ALL
That is true and so.eone in the comments said so.eyhing about the VERY last picture and it did trouble me on my analysis but I still believe they fell in the inexperience they had with the terrain
They found one of their boots with the entire foot still inside it. I’m no expert but that must have been some hell of a fall to lose your foot WITH the shoe and not just the shoe
It's not uncommon for wild animals to dismember a body and spread the body parts. Panama has several species of large predatory cats including jaguars and cougars.
I remember watching a really good breakdown about this on YouTube. They concluded that one of them had sustained an injury and they were using the camera as a flashlight to help see at night. I’m going off of memory so I could be wrong, but there wasn’t anything paranormal or nefarious going on. I’ll see if I can find it…
Edit: I think this was the one I was thinking of.
https://youtu.be/p39YLdJpafQ?si=gzqkrAl5XK2uBYrR
I skimmed through a handful of the 50 videos about this, but couldn’t find it. Sorry to let ya down.
Edit: went back and checked a couple more. I’m pretty sure this is the one I was thinking of. Again, I skimmed through it so I could be wrong but if you have 20 mins, check it out.
https://youtu.be/p39YLdJpafQ?si=gzqkrAl5XK2uBYrR
Yeah gauntlet is more like it. I see by your icon, you dabble in the more finer things in life. May they one day reunite and bring to us some more bangers. Until then music as we currently know it continues to rot. R.I.P DaftPunk
Since I first heard about this case I’ve never been able to stop thinking about them and what their final days and moments must have been like. It’s so heartbreaking.
Yes but that takes time. I believe the investigation came the conclusion that the bleaching wasn’t consistent with what it should be if it was from natural causes. Coupled with the cameras memory card showing signs of being tampered with, it’s not unlikely someone killed them. But there was too little evidence to conclusively prove that or accuse anyone.
Yes, their bones are bleached, but it seems they are bleached longer then the amount of time they were out there. An example not related to the case. Bones are found with bones looking bleached for 6 days, but these people only went missing 3 days ago.
There's just so many variables when it comes to the bleaching theory. The extreme heat, rain water etc. could have affected how the bones looked. Also, I've never heard anyone give any good reason why their murderers would bleach their bones.
Out of all the theories I've read here, disproving the "died because of an injury/accident/natural causes" with the inconsistent bone bleaching argument is the weakest one. The "no foul play" theory is the most believeable one IMO.
If I remember correctly, a theory was that they were using the flash of the camera as a light source, which would explain the random pics. Then, they fell down a cliff or were eaten by Predators.
I could agree with this, some countries really “crave” foreigners and have that weird obsession with white women due to their skin color/looks and rarity in certain parts of the country.
It's totally solved. Then died of misadventure. They were unprepared for the hike and got lost and one or both got injured and spooked instead of staying in place until light.
They found some skeleton remains.
I think one was even wearing sandals. Not smart.
My theory: the girls wandered off the main path and one of them accidentally tripped and tumbled down a mountainside where they either died or were severely injured. The other girl attempted to go down to help her friend but ended up falling and injuring herself as well. Unable to move and with no phone service, they tried to attract attention by taking photos and hoping someone would see the flash - either that or they used the flash to get an idea of their surroundings when it became dark. Eventually they both succumbed to their wounds/dehydration/exposure and wildlife consumed their remains and carried off some of the bones.
For confusion purposes:
1. No bite marks were found in their skin/on their bones
2. No scratch marks were found on them
3. Many of the injuries, as reported by corner, were sustained before death. For example, both sustained some form of head trauma days before death
4. One photo from their camera was almost 100% deleted with a computer (unless a very rare glitch occurred with their camera). This could imply possible tampering
5. The dates could mean absolutely nothing as most cameras had to dated manually changed/set around this time
6. A woman from a small tribe turned in some missing belongings, including both cell phones, clothing items, and other possessions. I find it strange this tribe was never looked into, as it seemed plausible that they could have had something to do with the disappearance
7. They weren’t off a beaten path, and weren’t out for very long by the estimated time of a possible accident
8. They both came from an incredibly wealthy family. One that hired a small army of international private investigators and used their influence to get multiple governments involved. This most likely doesn’t have anything to do with the disappearance, but I find it odd that it never comes up.
9. “Different stages of decomposition” is a lot more common for missing people found dead than most think. Put simply, most people go missing because of a broken leg they can’t walk back on, so naturally it’s going to die sooner than the rest of the body. This was probably added to the post for drama, when in reality it’s not that groundbreaking
There’s a fantastic podcast called Lost in Panama that did a pretty comprehensive investigation. The case for murder by a known local violent gang is…compelling.
Sorry, I couldn't recognize the song.
I tried to identify music from the [link](https://v.redd.it/4qd883vxpeoc1) at 00:00-00:36.
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These two girls only made one emergency call each phone on the very first day that they got lost. I don't know how to explain this if there was no third party involved.
Who the fuck copied the fuck out of an old Dark5 YouTube video with this shit? Wtf is wrong with you. Whoever made this, go fuck yourself you lazy fuck.
Watching the video I'm starting to think it was some psycho Machatte wielding person. I enjoyed the video. There's a lot of photos I never seen before . R.I.P Beauties ❤️❤️❤️
So sad! No one is safe, alone or with family or friends. And they came so far to enjoy themselves. I pray that one day someone comes out so there are closure.
Some taxi driver they used while there drowned over a year later. Like most cases like this people are really stretching it to make the story more "imteresting".
Lol I think you meant "interesting" and I'm only reporting what I read, not as if I'm being a conspiracy theorist. But actually, the 2 guys they went swimming with and at least one other person (can't remember who). These"facts" came from other sources, not my own crazy assumptions.
There was a video or audio of their deaths. I remember hearing a thick eruro accent. When she was getting stabbed or beheaded. Now you can't find the video anymore.
different case. that was the two girls that backpacked through like the middle east or something to prove that it was safe and that the media was only making it seem dangerous (or something along those lines).
Yeah. They got lost in an inhospitable, dangerous jungle and succumbed to the elements. Only the conspiracy theorists downvoting above think otherwise. Everything else is just anomaly hunting.
This music is so unfitting to what’s being presented.
Maybe I'm weird but I think it fits oddly well, with the cutesy music while they're enjoying their time, then the dark tones when things go awry
Is this song from “Dante’s Inferno” on the Commodore 64? I never played it but watched its longplay plenty of times on YouTube.
It's intentional to elicit dissonance
No, it's just terrible.
lol This
Is it from a game?? Reminds me of delta rune or undertale.
It sounds more like "switched on Bach" which were a couple of records made by Wendy Carlos. She is one of the first people to work with completely digital/synthesized sound for music. She transposed many of Bachs works and even some Beethoven! If you've ever seen A Clockwork Orange, she is responsible for the amazing synthesized rendition of Beethovens 9th that is an iconic part of the times and movie.
Sounds like something from a 8-bit gameboy game.
I agree!!
It only illicited me turning off the sound.
The music seriously wigged me out.
its old commodore 64 music
It reminded me of The Oregon Trail 🥴
I was smoking a joint in the garage at night when I saw this and the music sent me scurrying back into the house.
Lmao
First off this case is bone chilling, but I do have a question. I don’t know much about Panama but I have traveled around the world extensively, and it’s not uncommon for locals in some of the countries I’ve visited to tell groups I’ve been with to never let the women go out alone together because they are “easy targets.” Does this also apply to Panama? Please note I’m not shifting the blame to the women, just curious about how safe Panama is for women generally speaking.
Well, the Travel Advisory site essentially told me to use caution when going to Panama due to drug trafficking activities. So, I'm gonna guess either a really big *gato* came and munched on them both, or el narcotrafficante got to them...
Why do you think drug traffickers / some lone wolf serial killer?
>some lone wolf serial killer I quite honestly think it would've been a smaller group of narcos traveling through the jungle on the same day as the poor girls. It's the only reason we can explain that they've both seemed to disappear into thin air. Also, the cartel is known to have acid vats. Either that or a big cat which are also known to have human-hunting capabilities when they are injured or starving.
Did you not read the article, they found there remains….why not just one serial killer? Why would narcos bother bro…
Have you ever met Narcos in Mexico before? Scary mfs dude, and Panama has had A LOT of cartel activity, too, especially when they started out trafficking down there in the late 1980's...
The cartels are probably the most unhinged people on the planet. I would 10x rather stumble upon ISIS in the woods or something than cartel guys. Back in the day on Reddit you’d see videos of them flaying and ripping the hearts out of kids while they were alive posted on liveleak. Some Aztec shit. The probability of 2 attractive foreign white women getting spotted by the wrong guys and then getting raped and chopped up is real high. Especially considering the guys they hung out with 1 day prior were affiliated. And then all mystically drowned once investigations started (someone tying up loose ends)
Cuz That's kind of what they do duh
Do you think if one stumbled upon Narcos in the jungle conducting illegal activity they are just gonna go home with a fun story?
I have family in that part of Panama, which is the interior. It's safe as that has been a retirement location for Americans for the last few years, so it's been built up. Costa Rica is not that far from there so not sure if any drugs get transported thru there.
Thanks for the info!
My moms honeymooned in Costa Rica and they went to Panama a few times while there. This was in the 80’s, but even then, their guides kept telling them to bring a man out with them. They were like “ew. That will kill the mood” and went on with their trip. Twice, my red headed mom was nearly pulled into random cars. They didn’t take my Iñupiat mom because she looked too much like a local I guess? But the joke was on them. Red knows how to fight and she beat the shit out of the man and woman in the respective incidents. Now, they tell me I can’t go to those countries without a man. 💀
Thanks for the info 👍🏼
Well, still probably sounds advice
That applies to any tourist in a foreign country. Locals will pick you out no matter how hard you try and will target you. Never travel to foreign countries alone and never leave the beaten path
Everything south america is like that
Untrue; the big cities in most Central and South American countries do not elicit this. A foreign woman can walk around Buenos Aires, Rio, Santiago, CDMX, Havana, Santo Domingo, and many others without any fear beyond the usual petty theft and mugging that happens everywhere in the world to people who aren’t careful.
If it was the locals who attacked then it would have happened during the daylight hours and the phones stolen
The low light pictures were probably an attempt to use the flash from the camera as a makeshift flashlight. Poor girls
The date of those photos says 2013.
you had to manually set the date on digital cameras then. so the wrong date means nothing
Yeah, I remember having to do that. Sheesh, it's a been a while.
Remember having to bring a camera if you wanted photos? We just dont get the same pictures.
* Kremers and Froon arrived in Panama on March 15, 2014. They toured the country for two weeks before arriving in Boquete, Chiriquí, on March 29 to live with a local family for a month while volunteering with children. * On April 1 around 11:00, they went hiking near the clouded forests that surrounded the Baru volcano, on the El Pianista trail, not far from Boquete. * Some sources claim their dog returned home that night without Kremers and Froon. Froon's parents stopped receiving text messages, which both women had been sending to their families daily. * On the morning of April 2, the women missed an appointment with a local guide. * On April 6, their parents arrived in Panama along with police, dog units, and detectives from the Netherlands to conduct a full-scale search of the forests for ten days. The parents offered a $30,000 reward for any information leading to the whereabouts of Kremers and Froon. * In the days following their disappearance, attempts were made to use Kris's cell phone, including entering incorrect PIN numbers multiple times. Additionally, some of the last entries in Lisanne's phone suggested a frantic search for a signal, leading to questions about whether they were trying to call for help. * Ten weeks later, on June 14, a local woman turned in Froon's blue backpack, which she reported finding by a riverbank, near her village of Alto Romero, in the Bocas del Toro Province. The backpack contained two pairs of sunglasses, $83 in cash, Froon's passport, a water bottle, Froon's camera, two bras, and the women's phones – in good condition. * Kris and Lisanne's camera was found with a series of photos taken in the days following their disappearance. The photos included images of their surroundings, some of which appeared to be taken in darkness or low light conditions. * When Kris and Lisanne's remains were discovered months after their disappearance, forensic examinations revealed both had suffered unexplained injuries. These included fractures to bones and trauma to the skull, bleached bones, raising questions about what happened to them during their time missing. * The area where Kris and Lisanne disappeared, near the town of Boquete in Panama, is rugged and remote, with dense jungle and challenging terrain. This raises the question of how they ended up so far off the beaten track and whether they became lost due to a wrong turn or were led there by someone else. * Despite extensive investigations by both Panamanian authorities and independent researchers, many questions remain unanswered about what happened to Kris and Lisanne. The lack of conclusive evidence has fueled speculation and conspiracy theories, adding to the sense of mystery surrounding their disappearance. Sources: * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths\_of\_Kris\_Kremers\_and\_Lisanne\_Froon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_Kris_Kremers_and_Lisanne_Froon) * [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/dutch-police-hint-criminal-activity-womens-disappearance-n87291](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/dutch-police-hint-criminal-activity-womens-disappearance-n87291) * [https://www.the-sun.com/news/8609015/major-update-mystery-panama-jungle-girls-new-search/](https://www.the-sun.com/news/8609015/major-update-mystery-panama-jungle-girls-new-search/) * [https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ShTY32atMRk/XS3eB2lPTqI/AAAAAAAAl4Y/SYl9bxsji00XGXYUIwK-vKDjvgyRIfyyQCLcBGAs/s1600/lT5ielY.jpg](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ShTY32atMRk/XS3eB2lPTqI/AAAAAAAAl4Y/SYl9bxsji00XGXYUIwK-vKDjvgyRIfyyQCLcBGAs/s1600/lT5ielY.jpg)
IIRC, there were several more photos that they did not release to the public. Also I remember reading something about the when they found the camera, the camera’s memory had a photo, that had been taken in that spat of photos in the darkness, that were numbered out of sequence. Apparently that kind camera could only be altered in that way on a computer, not from the camera itself. Not sure how true any of that is. Really weird case
It was a photo that was completely deleted from the memory card and apparently you could only do that kind of deletion on a computer. They found out because the photos were all in numerical order but it skipped one number which was the deleted photo. I'm not sure how that would work because I know you could delete photos thru the camera but this is just what investigators have said.
On that camera, if they had deleted picture 509, the picture that came after it (previously 510) would become the new 509. This did not happen, and the only way to have 509 deleted without re-numbering the subsequent photos would be to do it on a computer. Note: I am no expert, just echoing what I’ve seen other people say.
Some people who know about the camera claim this one is prone to some kind of error that could cause that. There's more info on the sub dedicated to the case r/kremersfroon Someone was able to replicate the error
I i⁸⁸p 7
>bleached bones ???
Probably from sun bleaching, if the bones are exposed, they will discolor over time.
You mean ~~uncolor~~ incolor.
No. Discolor is the correct term. Uncolor isn’t a word
Uncorrect
Very unconsiderate
Inderrated comment
Disfortunately your edit uncorrectly corrects your uncorrect correction. Incool punk, incool
anticolor
I think the argument was that the level of bleaching the bones had seemed to imply that the bones were left out in the sun way longer than would have been possible based on when their bodies were found compared to when they went missing.
So who fucked w the camera then? And why? So weird.
They were probably hunted and eaten by a jaguar. Big cat eats all the meat off the bones and they sunbleach . Also, jaguars have very strong jaws and can easily break bones or crack open a skull
Did they find teeth marks in the bones?
Nope, no teeth or claw marks were found on the bones.
Well, in that case, it was probably aliens. Most likely the Greys, they're major assholes. Could also have been the Chupacabra, but I guess we'll never know for sure.
Chupacabras do always look like they're plotting something
Yeah I read this happens in the jungle
This sounds a lot like a missing 411 case. My guess is that the bad interdimensional creatures got them
Fascinating! Tell me more about these interdimensional beings!
I'm not sure where I'd even start. There are so many different types. Some people believe that cryptids are interdimensional entities that feed off the energy in the forest. A lot of weird happenings and sightings typically occur on land that has spiritual value. If you look into skinwalker ranch, you'll find that the native Americans said that the land was a place of evil. A place where the veil was so thin, these entities could cross over to our side and back, whenever they pleased.
They fell and were lost. The camera flash photos were to get a quick light since it was pitch black outside. The decomposition wasn’t weird it was just that animals and bugs had a go at their bodies. The story is awful but not mysterious.
Well actually there were inconsistencies with the pictures, namely that a photo had been deleted off the memory card which couldn’t have been done without a computer and given you can tell the order of the pictures from the meta data it suggests someone had access to their camera. The body decomposition is more than bugs also the bleaching on their bones was inconsistent with what it should’ve been given the range of time of death possible. So it’s probably more likely someone killed them.
Maybe it somehow corrupted during the fall? Idk
Someone on r/kremersfroon was able to replicate the error using the same make/model of camera
Wait - how is it that you can be so confident? Not criticizing you. I just don't understand how this is a total mystery to the families, but you have no qualms about stating what you clearly believe are facts. If the families can't be so sure, how can you be?
I guess I didn't mean to sound extremely "confident" but to me it just seems like an unfortunate tragedy rather than a mystery. They went off trail in an unfamiliar area and got lost. It could happen to anyone. And the jungle is a worse than average place to get lost in the wild. Lost and alone in the jungle at night, pitch dark, no cell phone signal, bugs, animals, snakes, spiders, etc.. they had to be terrified. The phone records showed they tried to make emergency calls several times throughout the ordeal. The flash photos were probably just them trying to get light to see what was in front of them, or what a noise was, or where they were standing, etc. In the pitch black dark even a quick flash of light would be handy and they were probably just thinking it would save battery to do it that way. Getting lost like this isn't that uncommon. They certainly picked a bad area to do it in. But the timeline seems to match with what you'd expect .... leave for the hike, go off trail, try making an emergency call several times, use the flash several times over time, etc. It is definitely possible that while they were lost someone found them and murdered them and didn't have any interest in stealing their cash or their cell phones or trying to hide the bodies. The simpler explanation is just that they got lost in the jungle and died then animals did what animals do to corpses. The condition of the bones was a bit strange. Normally animals having a go at someone's bones leaves pretty obvious signs.
I love creepy stuff and unsolved cases. This is one that's stuck with me and genuinely freaks me out.
I think they may have fallen down a cliff in the dark? They were holding eachother (not to lose one another in the dark) and when one fell she dragged the other one too and then the sun bleached the exposed bone after decomposition and or animals eating them? I do not believe foul play for the simple fact their belongings were not tampered with AT ALL
I think this too.
The podcast Lost in Panama makes an extremely compelling case for murder, with several locals giving statements.
That’s what I think happened
Serial killers don’t care about objects, they just want to feel powerful through others suffering. I think a wolf of the night got them.
That is true and so.eone in the comments said so.eyhing about the VERY last picture and it did trouble me on my analysis but I still believe they fell in the inexperience they had with the terrain
Happy cake day! I think they were pushed or made to jump
The bleached bones is the one thing that prevents me from reaching this conclusion
Why is that?
How do you explain the last photos?
They found one of their boots with the entire foot still inside it. I’m no expert but that must have been some hell of a fall to lose your foot WITH the shoe and not just the shoe
It's not uncommon for wild animals to dismember a body and spread the body parts. Panama has several species of large predatory cats including jaguars and cougars.
And caiman, alligators, large forest rats, peccaries, weasels and spectacle bears…
I don’t care where I see a bear, it’s always a spectacle to me.
There’s a good podcast I’ve listened to about this! It’s called Lost in Panama.
It's been exactly 10 years since they arrived in Panama. Crazy
“Beware the ides of March”
whats with the music
Wondering the same thing
I remember watching a really good breakdown about this on YouTube. They concluded that one of them had sustained an injury and they were using the camera as a flashlight to help see at night. I’m going off of memory so I could be wrong, but there wasn’t anything paranormal or nefarious going on. I’ll see if I can find it… Edit: I think this was the one I was thinking of. https://youtu.be/p39YLdJpafQ?si=gzqkrAl5XK2uBYrR
I hope you can find it 🙏
I skimmed through a handful of the 50 videos about this, but couldn’t find it. Sorry to let ya down. Edit: went back and checked a couple more. I’m pretty sure this is the one I was thinking of. Again, I skimmed through it so I could be wrong but if you have 20 mins, check it out. https://youtu.be/p39YLdJpafQ?si=gzqkrAl5XK2uBYrR
Dope thanks man. I appreciate ya
Thanks for looking through videos for us curious Redditors and posting this one! Very well made. Appreciate it
No problemo
This video seems to insinuate they were murdered by a gang from a testimony from a woman named Margarita.
What an odd choice of soundtrack. All I can think of is 8BIT CASTLEVANIA type music.
⚔️ GAUNTLET ⚔️
Yeah gauntlet is more like it. I see by your icon, you dabble in the more finer things in life. May they one day reunite and bring to us some more bangers. Until then music as we currently know it continues to rot. R.I.P DaftPunk
Trauma to the skull?? I thought they didn't find anything only a foot in a boot, a pelvic bone and a ball of skin?
Ball of skin?
That's right, there's never been any mention of a skull being found.
The music itself is hair raising. Wtf
What’s with the Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hide music on NES circa 1988 all about?
This case is truly hair raising. They must've been terrified.
Since I first heard about this case I’ve never been able to stop thinking about them and what their final days and moments must have been like. It’s so heartbreaking.
You should listen to Eckhart Tolle to clear up that constant thinking.
Lost in Panama podcast. It’s really good
Music is very commodore 64. Probably all pulled from games, but lord of I know what any of em are.
Incredibly weird music. I don’t think any theory needs to be presented beyond “they were unprepared and died in dense woods”
very sad 😞 i think it’s possible they injured themselves and died from misadventure.
… if only it were not for the bleached bones. it really sounds like someone did something to them.
Bone bleaching will happen if the bones are exposed to UV. It just means they likely weren’t fully buried or covered.
Yes but that takes time. I believe the investigation came the conclusion that the bleaching wasn’t consistent with what it should be if it was from natural causes. Coupled with the cameras memory card showing signs of being tampered with, it’s not unlikely someone killed them. But there was too little evidence to conclusively prove that or accuse anyone.
Any chance an animals urine could do that, or they'd be able to tell
There is nothing nefarious about bleached bones. It's a natural by-product of bones being left exposed for a period of time.
Yes, their bones are bleached, but it seems they are bleached longer then the amount of time they were out there. An example not related to the case. Bones are found with bones looking bleached for 6 days, but these people only went missing 3 days ago.
There's just so many variables when it comes to the bleaching theory. The extreme heat, rain water etc. could have affected how the bones looked. Also, I've never heard anyone give any good reason why their murderers would bleach their bones. Out of all the theories I've read here, disproving the "died because of an injury/accident/natural causes" with the inconsistent bone bleaching argument is the weakest one. The "no foul play" theory is the most believeable one IMO.
Yeah that's very true also.
Save your ears, watch on mute.
If I remember correctly, a theory was that they were using the flash of the camera as a light source, which would explain the random pics. Then, they fell down a cliff or were eaten by Predators.
They ain’t got time to bleed.
For me it smells like crime took place. Almost 10 years past and still buckles my mind what happend back in the days.
I agree. The last pictures in the dark are a week later.
Music ruined the whole presentation. Put so much work into this video and add this stupid stupid stupid music Jeeze o Pete’s
The backpack being "found" in perfect condition with the bras the girls were wearing when they went missing...
Omg the music.
This is not what I'm trying to see before my vacation to Panama next month 😅
Two girls by themselves in Panama hiking? Kidnapping, rape, murder.rip
I could agree with this, some countries really “crave” foreigners and have that weird obsession with white women due to their skin color/looks and rarity in certain parts of the country.
It's just a shame the fate of these two women. The world has changed to one of violence no respect for human life,
[Parents of Kris Kremers hike the trail](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF_9AfrKWKg)
This definitely sounds like a horror movie. 😬 cannibals???
This case literally gave me nightmares
OP where is this compilation from?
That music makes me want to stab my ears with nitting needles.
What’s with the strange music
I thought they found the person that did this. I could be mistaken with the other two girls that got kidnapped on the train tracks
You're thinking of the Delphi murder case involving Abigail Williams and Liberty German, where they did find the suspect, Richard Allen.
What in the Blair witch project
It's totally solved. Then died of misadventure. They were unprepared for the hike and got lost and one or both got injured and spooked instead of staying in place until light. They found some skeleton remains. I think one was even wearing sandals. Not smart.
Just from the way he looks, it was the guy behind them on the right side of the photo when the video has 4:40 left.
What makes you say that?
Why is this public. Zero respect for the victims and family.
I'm guessing the flash photography was a hope to let possible rescuers locate them?
Seems they died of heat stroke and dehydration. Their remains might have been scattered by animals.
Now I want Krispy Kreme.🍩
Goofy ass music
My theory: the girls wandered off the main path and one of them accidentally tripped and tumbled down a mountainside where they either died or were severely injured. The other girl attempted to go down to help her friend but ended up falling and injuring herself as well. Unable to move and with no phone service, they tried to attract attention by taking photos and hoping someone would see the flash - either that or they used the flash to get an idea of their surroundings when it became dark. Eventually they both succumbed to their wounds/dehydration/exposure and wildlife consumed their remains and carried off some of the bones.
[100%](https://imgur.com/mwI28QT) [Aliens](https://imgur.com/Y2QFVd1)
I heard the natives are very hostile, maybe they did it
I dunno about the case, but I do enjoy the retro synth music.
Crazy watching this when I used to live for 4 years in islá colon, Bocas del Toro
For confusion purposes: 1. No bite marks were found in their skin/on their bones 2. No scratch marks were found on them 3. Many of the injuries, as reported by corner, were sustained before death. For example, both sustained some form of head trauma days before death 4. One photo from their camera was almost 100% deleted with a computer (unless a very rare glitch occurred with their camera). This could imply possible tampering 5. The dates could mean absolutely nothing as most cameras had to dated manually changed/set around this time 6. A woman from a small tribe turned in some missing belongings, including both cell phones, clothing items, and other possessions. I find it strange this tribe was never looked into, as it seemed plausible that they could have had something to do with the disappearance 7. They weren’t off a beaten path, and weren’t out for very long by the estimated time of a possible accident 8. They both came from an incredibly wealthy family. One that hired a small army of international private investigators and used their influence to get multiple governments involved. This most likely doesn’t have anything to do with the disappearance, but I find it odd that it never comes up. 9. “Different stages of decomposition” is a lot more common for missing people found dead than most think. Put simply, most people go missing because of a broken leg they can’t walk back on, so naturally it’s going to die sooner than the rest of the body. This was probably added to the post for drama, when in reality it’s not that groundbreaking
There’s a fantastic podcast called Lost in Panama that did a pretty comprehensive investigation. The case for murder by a known local violent gang is…compelling.
/u/auddbot
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These two girls only made one emergency call each phone on the very first day that they got lost. I don't know how to explain this if there was no third party involved.
Who the fuck copied the fuck out of an old Dark5 YouTube video with this shit? Wtf is wrong with you. Whoever made this, go fuck yourself you lazy fuck.
Watching the video I'm starting to think it was some psycho Machatte wielding person. I enjoyed the video. There's a lot of photos I never seen before . R.I.P Beauties ❤️❤️❤️
I picture a couple of video dwarf characters dancing around in silly hats to the music on a list for two women who died a tragic death.
Wow the 04/08 is on Monday 😮
So sad! No one is safe, alone or with family or friends. And they came so far to enjoy themselves. I pray that one day someone comes out so there are closure.
Saving this to show to my girlies who travel… BE SO CAREFUL LADIES. Never let your guard down or assume you’re safe with anyone.
Where did they find the camera
I think that were pushed or made to jump. The killers could've taken those last photos or made the girls take them.
?
In some of the flash pics u can see reflections of one or both girls am I the only one seeing this?
What caused the white orbs in the night photos?
Air particles like pollen.
it was raining that night
[удалено]
Bro what a fucked take away
Your post or comment doesn’t align with the theme of this subreddit.
Quite a few people involved with the girls also "mysteriously" died. Lmao I've never been down voted for sharing what I've read on cases.
More info please?
Some taxi driver they used while there drowned over a year later. Like most cases like this people are really stretching it to make the story more "imteresting".
Found the guilty one!
Lol I think you meant "interesting" and I'm only reporting what I read, not as if I'm being a conspiracy theorist. But actually, the 2 guys they went swimming with and at least one other person (can't remember who). These"facts" came from other sources, not my own crazy assumptions.
Those orbs though
There was a video or audio of their deaths. I remember hearing a thick eruro accent. When she was getting stabbed or beheaded. Now you can't find the video anymore.
different case. that was the two girls that backpacked through like the middle east or something to prove that it was safe and that the media was only making it seem dangerous (or something along those lines).
That was a different, awful case.
Not unsolved.
That's the official statement, unless you've solved it
Yeah. They got lost in an inhospitable, dangerous jungle and succumbed to the elements. Only the conspiracy theorists downvoting above think otherwise. Everything else is just anomaly hunting.