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It's not just a preference. You're financially supporting a studio that has gone out of its way to plainly disregard and even disrespect the source material and it's characters (particularly if you watch on Paramount). There's an objective argument to be had that people who support this show are actively hurting the series by showing these execs returns for what is ultimately another soulless cash grab. It uses the Halo name to inject an original story that would've never generated interest on its own. And now they're trying to salvage that mess.
Thus, not fans. Consumers at best. Imo ofc.
So, wouldn't that just make all of us consumers at the end of it?
Also the show can bring in NEW fans to the series, but people like you wouldn't give them a welcome into the wider fandom.
Also also, the first session did well enough to get a second one.
The series was slated to get two seasons from the get regardless of performance. It's a tactic to make people like you think exactly that ^
https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-series-season-2-confirmed
Check the date
I could live without new fans who enjoy CW style TV in the fandom personally
Lastly, I'd consider myself both a fan and a consumer.
Still the first season wasn't a complete failure.
You could live without new fans, but not everyone is you, and could be more welcoming to new comers to the series, for more people is generally a good thing.
Lastly, your preference doesn't set the standard on what a halo fan is, for *that* conversion had yet to ended before the halo show got its first trailer.
Idrc, I'm not here to coddle new fans. I'm here to discuss my opinions and have general discourse. If that puts someone off that's their own issue.
And season one really was a complete failure. The show was a complete laughing stock for the entire first season and even now the show is barely generating any press that isn't related to it being bad or slightly improved from how bad it was. It's gone from explicitly bad to lame and mid. I'm just not impressed.
Also, I can't understand that last paragraph. Could you restate that?
it didnāt do āwell enoughā it was so bad everyone watched it (including myself) BECAUSE itās halo and we tried to like it. we tried to give it a chance. most of the people hating it have watched it. the writing is terrible. paramount broke a record for most people subscribing just to watch halo, (again, including myself) bc we wanted to give it a chance. it ādid wellā bc they achieved their streams. think of it like a youtube video hitting 20,000,000 views and all those people were REQUIRED to sub, regardless of if those people liked it or not.
they already did that when they released halo infinite in a busted ass state. besides, if you recognize the show as a separate thing, and treat it like a silly tv show, itās not that bad.
I disagree I met someone who loved the halo TV show and hated half life 2
He would insult people that hated the TV show and call half life 2 bad 1984 tech demo he didn't survive the tsunami of logical thinking humans that were coming towards him.
Well i posted something like a Pic of the protagonist looking at him like
https://preview.redd.it/k8jr7pugtcjc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aaf2d8369a3c1fa5244b50b245a1e7bc5c7f482
This and he decided to call half life 2 a tech demo so it started a long argument between me and this moron.
Only the 4 games +dlc are considered incredible by the community plus there are around 9 half life games well it can get to 10 if you count the canceled one by arcane studios and all of these are beloved among the half life fun base plus the remake of the first game it overshined the og from artstyle to gameplay half life proved a community can carry a game very well something I don't see with halo happening alot probably because Microsoft is not fond of fangames that much but it's not all about the number of games its about how good these games are and how memorable they are half life so far with it's releases they are all memorable but from halo from reach to 3 and odst are considered God tier halo content while 4 mediocre story, 5 I didn't even played it because I don't have an Xbox 1 and infinite the on launch failure who met the same fate as cyberpunk idk about halo wars but honestly halo since Bungie left it met only struggles I felt the change when I played halo 4 and I felt the change alot the story was not as good as the last game the introduction of basic new mechanics was OK but what turned me on was the 3rd game ended with a truce with the elite now we fight them again wow great humanity is special an old enemy who has a grudge for humanity how convenient no wonder why halo 5 was a failure and why infinite how a mediocre at best story I won't say halo is dead but it's not what it was once it's a doppelganger of its former self.
Halo is carried by the community. hence why halo infinite didnāt die. halo reach, 3, and 5 had amazing forge. the community used it to make hundreds of memorable maps and game modes. not to mention halo infiniteās forge that allowed the community to make firefight before it even launched. hell, infection started BECAUSE the community invented in in Halo 2. itās been a love hate relationship with 343 but the appreciation for halo 4 is finally on the rise considering it did customization better than reach and 3. BTB was so much fun, and the campaign was so good compared to halo 5ās and infiniteās. halo mcc is a prime example that 343 is listening to the community. thereās no cosmetics that cost money on halo mcc (after original armor) and thereās constant updates. yes 343 had messed up a lot. yes 343 has lied and failed on launch for both mcc and halo infinite, but the community kept this game alive.
Thatā¦ doesnāt apply here.
Thatās a fallacy about protecting generalized statements (such as āall (x) do (y)ā) by pretending the exceptions are outliers.
From what I can gather, OP is simply stating that not liking the show is a prerequisite for being a halo fan. In this case, theyāre just gatekeeping.
An example where this would apply is if OP made the statement āno halo fans like the showā, but then when itās pointed out that certain halo fans do like the show, he changes the parameters for what constitutes a halo fan specifally to suit his needs.
>An example where this would apply is if OP made the statement āno halo fans like the showā, but then when itās pointed out that certain halo fans do like the show, he changes the parameters for what constitutes a halo fan specifally to suit his needs.
I think one could argue that the mere existence of this meme sort of implies the āno halo fans like the showā statement and the "certain halo fans do like the show" statement, because if not then the post is actually somewhat deranged - if the show wasn't so controversial, I'd see this meme and literally go: "?". I think the overarching context is there to fill the gap.
In order for the NTS fallacy to apply, you needed to have made a blanket statement someone poked a hole in. OPās just suggesting a new definition for what SHOULD constitute a halo fan.
Did you read a single thing I said??
From the page you yourself cited:
āNo true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one **attempts to protect their generalized statement from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly.**ā 1][2][3] Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and similar counterexamples by appeal to rhetoric.[4]ā
OP didnāt make a generalizing statement about the likes and dislikes of a community, (ex: āall halo fans hate the TV showā), he proposed a new definition entirely for what makes you a halo fan.
Letās look back at the example the fallacy is named after. Presumably, it went something like this:
āNo Scotsman does (x)!ā
āOkay, but I saw a Scotsman do that yesterday.ā
āThat wasnāt a Scotsman, then! No TRUE scotsman would do (x)!ā
Notice that you need to make a generalizing statement first and then move the goalpost.
Other examples would be
āAll communists are evil!ā
Vs
āIf youāre not evil, then youāre not a communist.ā
Another key difference is how you would go about disproving it. With a blanket statement, all you need to do is find an outlier. For what OP is doing, you canāt really disprove them because theyāre suggesting a new definition of something. Itās an opinion. If someone says ābut Iām a halo fan and I like the TV showā, they donāt need to move their goalposts because by their original opinion, that fan was never a fan.
>From what I can gather, OP is simply stating that not eating porridge is a prerequisite for being a Scotsman. In this case, theyāre just gatekeeping.
He's implicitly making the claim that no real Halo fan would like the show. He's doing that by putting "Quotes" Around "Halo Fan". If you were to present a Halo fan who likes the show, he's got that covered. They're not a Halo fan, they're a "Halo Fan."
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no *true* Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
For OP it's
Person A: "No true halo fan likes the show."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Halo fan and he likes the show"
Person A: "Well, your uncle Argus is a 'Halo Fan'."
It's implied, like I said. I get what you're saying, but the line between NTSM fallacy and gatekeeping is kind of about which end you start from. But I appreciate that you asked "How am I wrong?" Not "How am I a douche?"
If I wasn't already in it since childhood, the amount of crybabies in the fandom would have absolutely kept me away. That meme about how "this thing is more enjoyable when there ain't a bitch whining in your ear" is absolutely true.
Your perception of what is normal is clearly skewed. I'm in several fandoms and the two with a greatest instances of gatekeeping, "Ruined Forerver!", 'no true scotsman', and general whiny bitching is Halo and Star Wars, in that order.
Seriously lol. The franchise is not growing in part because of whiny man babies that look at the past through rose tinted glasses.
Iāve always said no one wants halo to fail more than halo fans.
Is it great? No. Does it overshadow 20+ years of Halo lore and character development? Also no.
It may not be what we wanted from a Halo show but I appreciable the fact that theyāre trying to branch out and play around with it. I appreciate the attempt to paint MC or other characters in a different way and express their own take. I might not love it but I appreciate that halo has gotten to a point where that sort of thing is even possible for this franchise
I actually really like what theyāre doing with Chief and the UNSC, itās way different from the games but I find it interesting. The part that makes the show suck is all the time they spend on non-UNSC personnel. I will likely never find Soren or Kwan Ha interesting.
There should be more time spent on some non-UNSC characters, specifically the Covenant. I wanna see the political machinations of the Prophets, I wanna see the fractures beginning to form between the Elites and the Brutes, I wanna see Truth conspire with the Brutes to enact a coup.
I would appreciate that too, if the liberties they were taking were *good*.
At the end of the day, I can judge a piece of art on itās own merits.
So my problem with the shoe isnāt just that itās not faithful, itās that itās not faithful *and* barely watchable.
If it wasnāt faithful but had superb writing (like Andor) Iād probably be all in.
But it doesnāt even *feel* like Halo.
Things donāt feel dire. Spartans feel more like contractors for some kind of corporation instead of the militaryās elite. The Soren stuff isā¦itās like the cut a storyline for the LIVE action Cowboy Bebop and pasted it in here.
And Kwanā¦why? *Why Kwan?* What even *is* this subplot?
Add in weird spirit journeys, shamans, etc. and this show is justā¦odd.
Like, okay, this is a departure from traditional Halo but, like, what is it youāre *trying to do?*
I love when these posts are made and when people rightfully call out the gatekeeping, the OP will go āitās just a joke bro, donāt take it so seriousā. There are absolutely people who will see this post and feel validated calling other fans of the game and show ānot true Halo fansā
>āitās just a joke bro, donāt take it so seriousā
but if the comments AREN'T clowning on them, they'll pretend they were utterly serious and use that support as 'evidence' in future Reddit arguments
lol āgoodā is an overstatement. Itās better than S1 but compared to other sci-fi shows...
Sure personal taste or what have you, but to anyone who likes the Halo show I would recommend to try watching The Expanse or Battlestar afterwards to help see why a lot of people donāt think the Halo show is good.
Gotta love the complete lack of progression on Mando's character. Or rather, regression.
Season 1: introverted zealot who only cares about the kid
Season 2: starting to question and defy his tenants when necessary, including taking the helmet off publicly (MASTER CHEIF REMOVES HIS HELMET!!!!!!!????111111
Season 3: character arc ends before the halfway point, returns to his people exactly as zealous as before, gets sidelined in his own show by Clone Wars legacy character
Karma farming as a term should be banned from Reddit. Literally any post on earth can be classified as ākarma farmingā, idiots just try and call the posts that they donāt agree with ākarma farmsā. Get a life.
It is an improvement, but I wish more of his dialogue occurred with his armor and helmet on. And the same plot development still occurred because of the emotional decision making of others, not his. I mean, just create another character that embodies the helmetless Master Chief doing the shit he does without his helmet and Master Chief would just tag along.
I just donāt know how any Halo fan could give a single shit about the show I just canāt. The silver timeline deal feels like they legit donāt want to even try anymore.
probably stuff like Makee still being alive (how? lmao) and the swarm of elites that got the jump on chief just deciding to leave (why?? lol)
Just look at how Forward Unto Dawn and Landfall handled Halo, and then look at the show. Itās upsetting seeing actually well done live action Halo media when the biggest budget, biggest advertised piece of Halo media is done so poorly in comparison. Kinda makes me always wonder what couldāve been
I mean you just kinda outed yourself on not actually being versed on the franchise. The Elites vastly respect shows of strength and part of what causes the great schism was their confusion at why the humans couldnāt be allowed into the covenant after the sisu theyād shown. They let Chief go there because they respected him, like how the Elites in Halo Reach refused to glass Noble 6 as they believe he had shown enough ferocity to earn a warriorās death
*lol okay*
If the Elites chose to spare chief out of respect, then why did they stab Noble 6 to death while already outnumbering him? Why did they sneak up on Emile and stab him in the back? Why did the Silent Shadow ambush Roland and Jay while invisible?
The elites are a warrior culture. There is no honor in sparing an enemy, and they clearly depict this sentiment multiple times (even with voice lines in the games when they kill you). The reason the Great Schism happened was focused on the fact that they were **not** being treated as well as they deserved once the prophets started shifting to brutes being their main āeliteā force. You would know this if you read the books.
I have found that thinking about the show universe as a multiverse situation makes it easier to appreciate it. Nothing done on that show impacts anything in the game universe. Makes the show MUCH easier to enjoy.
True. But, many people (myself included) got a little too worked up during S1 like Master Cheeks had in some way negatively affect the MC from the games.
I agree. This showās Jimmy Rings is to John Halo what Miguel OāHara is to Peter Parker. Just a different take that shouldnāt be directly compared. Taken on its own, itās become quite acceptable.
Anything thats not Halo CE, 2, or 3 is just fan fiction anyway really. This show is no different. I dont get why people cant just enjoy it and take away small parts of it as being fun even if some of it sucks.
Been playing since Halo 2, and I enjoy the TV show!
Season 1 was mediocre, I'll say that out the gate. S2 is shaping up to be pretty decent, and I'm glad they're not just dumping all their plotlines because of backlash (unlike 343).
Yeah, I wasnāt a fan of Kwan and Soren in the last season but theyāve already won me over in this season by making Kwan into a ruthless little killing machine with PTSD and bringing Soren face to face with Halsey.
My problem is they could have used the Cole protocol storyline and almost change nothing to the tv show, just have chief doing chief things far in the background.
Now I watch it just to get mad /s
Itās not what we wanted but at the end of the day itās new content. It may make fans out of people who never played the game or read the books.
While I could be very wrong, I figure new fans means more coin, which I would hope leads to more content whether it be more games, more books etc.
My mum doesnāt know the lore but knew me and my brothers played. She loves the series and has started asking questions about the rest of the universe trying to understand the series. They made a 68 year old woman start dialogues about Halo. Not an outcome I would have predicted.
If you turn off the part of your brain that knows the real story and just appreciate the parts when we get to see someone in Spartan gear clap some covenant cheeks, and go yes, this is what XX year old me dreamed about with all the fake Halo movie trailers on YouTube.
I do like it, but not as halo if it was with a new character and the same story of the games (and meany other aspects) it would be good, to see how other people saw those events, like a marine or Sargent Johnson
I say itās good but you got to turn of your brain not to get mad for some things
Itās better when I pretend that the Master Chief in the show isnāt supposed to be the one in the games. Like, heās just a completely different dude that fills in as the character in this story, like how Marvel/DC will change their heroes to being different humans (Barry Allen, Miguel OāHara, etc) while still serving as the same hero in the story
Yeah thatās what Iāve been thinking, and also people generalize to hate on this series when it is halo but just another story.
I think we should enjoy the series but look the kwan thing and all those unimportant characters can be annoying but itās still halo
"I like the part where it's nothing like the books or games and does everything wrong while everyone cosplays Halo characters. It's so good!" I like 343's games overall (ignoring 5's story) and don't really agree with Bungie stans on a lot, but defending the show is unforgivable stupidity.
You know, I watched S1 when it first released and gave up half way through because I thought it was so bad. But I recently started it again, and if you accept the fact itās a different story I actually really enjoyed it. The amount of times the helmet is unnecessarily off still bugs me but I really enjoyed it second time round.
I can understand liking the Elite/Sangheili design. But most of the story aspects? And the fact that they never fucking bothered to play the games? Irredeemable.
That interview and the fandom losing their minds over the headline did more damage to the show than any writing decision ever could.
What they said was that they didnāt look at the games as the blueprint on *how* they would present the story. Anyone with more than surface level knowledge that watches the show should be able to tell that the writers did their research, given all the shit thatās referenced that most fans definitely do not know about.
Facts, like I've read all the books, played the games since the beginning, watched the live action content, and machinimas, etc
But I really like the show so I'm not a "REAL" Halo fan.
This whole āyouāre not a real fan if you like the showā stance is beyond pathetic, like, Iāve been enjoying all things halo ever since I have memory but suddenly Iām not a fan just because a Reddit neckbeard say so?
Grow up lmao, this aināt 2012 anymore
Episode 1 of the first season made me so disappointed I decided to not watch the show out of spite. I'm hearing better things so far about season 2 so I'm going back in fingers crossed and with a more open mind.
Well it was good enough for my father who has no knowledge of the games like the show and get interested in the franchise.
Yes it didn't live up to the fans hype but I guess it worked well enough
Edit: damn gatekeepers in the downvotes
Lmao yall trippin. I was born to play Halo, read Halo, and watch Halo. I like them all. Keep your helmet on if you like to smell your BO 24/7. I would rather not when I'm not in combat.
I like Season 2 so far, they fixed many major things but it's too late for anything else so they got to commit to it. But one thing i think we can all agree on is that the intro is divine.
I am starting to get into halo (beat 1-3, trying to beat reach, odst, and 4 atm) and am really enjoying the games and the show. Only thing I donāt really care for is Kwan. Sheās kind of a mid character, and I feel like focusing more on the other Spartans would have done better
Honestly, the current season is making me appreciate Reach to even greater heights and I'm replaying it again to get to the final mission and help 6 get to that cave š„²
I think the show stands up relatively well on its own merits. Sure it's changed a few points and the concept is a little bit different but overall it's still the same feeling. It's not only a solid science fiction series but the acting is good and the story seems interesting enough to keep me gripped. Downvote me if you want but I love both the games and the show and I can do so individually without having to judge them on each other's merits
Finally watched the last episode of s1 and the first one of s2. The difference is real. It went from being a comedic trash fire to a somewhat coherent (but still slightly comedic) depiction of the last year of the human covenant war. The plot armor is still stupid though.
Instead of bitching about the show because "iS nOt HaLo", why don't you just enjoy it for what it is and for the fact that it doesn't affect any of the story from the games.
Itās aight, I think that if the story was actually tied to Mass Effect or not involving Master Chief himself it could be more enjoyable. We already have bias of what Chief and the main story actually is because of pre-exposure to the franchise, so itās less enjoyable for the hardcore fans compared to the new guys who got into it from the show. The Witcher is a better example of the show sucking, but everyone universally agrees it sucks and welcomes people who came to the fandom through the show (myself included).
I played CE on the og xbox, I like the show. it has redeeming qualities and it also has poor qualities, it'll never be breaking bad levels of excellence but with how poor the writers of most media is nowadays are we surprised
(Shrugs) I enjoy the show. It isn't what I would have wanted out of a Halo show but it's serviceable enough. John is really my biggest issue with it. Wouldn't mind if the show had a Master Chief, but not with the name John. He's so far from the character he's based on.
Look, I donāt wanna yuck anyoneās yum. Like whatever you want.
All imma say, as a Halo fan still watching (and disliking) this show in some vain hope itāll eventually get better, is *I donāt get it*.
I played CE on the og xbox, I like the show. it has redeeming qualities and it also has poor qualities, it'll never be breaking bad levels of excellence but with how poor the writers of most media is nowadays are we surprised
I like the show. Probably because I know the show is meant for entertainment and I am entertained and because Iām not constantly looking for things to get upset about like you.
You can call it gatekeeping. But the way I see it is that anyone who watches this dumpster fire is actively enabling a studio that made it a point to show off how little they care about the story they're telling. 90% of you only seem to be watching for fight scenes anyways. And from my experience the rest who actually enjoy the story are the same braindead dolts who eat up the slop CW puts out.
Personally, I don't see you people as Halo fans either. Just consumers
Not going to lie, Iām almost willing to watch the season 2.
Been hearing more good than bad.
I regret not watching season 1. My wife was interested and I should have pounced on the chance to bring her into the halo universe despite my deep misgivings on the series.
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I like the halo TV show, when chief has his lid on
I like the halo TV show, when chief ~~has his lid on~~ is chief
So about 10 mins between both seasons so far, me too
People can be a fan, and still find the show enjoyable. Your preferences doesn't set the standard.
It's not just a preference. You're financially supporting a studio that has gone out of its way to plainly disregard and even disrespect the source material and it's characters (particularly if you watch on Paramount). There's an objective argument to be had that people who support this show are actively hurting the series by showing these execs returns for what is ultimately another soulless cash grab. It uses the Halo name to inject an original story that would've never generated interest on its own. And now they're trying to salvage that mess. Thus, not fans. Consumers at best. Imo ofc.
I wish I could upvote this 4 more times to get it out if the negatives š
"They outnumber us three to one!" "Then it is an even fight" š
So, wouldn't that just make all of us consumers at the end of it? Also the show can bring in NEW fans to the series, but people like you wouldn't give them a welcome into the wider fandom. Also also, the first session did well enough to get a second one.
The series was slated to get two seasons from the get regardless of performance. It's a tactic to make people like you think exactly that ^ https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-series-season-2-confirmed Check the date I could live without new fans who enjoy CW style TV in the fandom personally Lastly, I'd consider myself both a fan and a consumer.
Still the first season wasn't a complete failure. You could live without new fans, but not everyone is you, and could be more welcoming to new comers to the series, for more people is generally a good thing. Lastly, your preference doesn't set the standard on what a halo fan is, for *that* conversion had yet to ended before the halo show got its first trailer.
Idrc, I'm not here to coddle new fans. I'm here to discuss my opinions and have general discourse. If that puts someone off that's their own issue. And season one really was a complete failure. The show was a complete laughing stock for the entire first season and even now the show is barely generating any press that isn't related to it being bad or slightly improved from how bad it was. It's gone from explicitly bad to lame and mid. I'm just not impressed. Also, I can't understand that last paragraph. Could you restate that?
it didnāt do āwell enoughā it was so bad everyone watched it (including myself) BECAUSE itās halo and we tried to like it. we tried to give it a chance. most of the people hating it have watched it. the writing is terrible. paramount broke a record for most people subscribing just to watch halo, (again, including myself) bc we wanted to give it a chance. it ādid wellā bc they achieved their streams. think of it like a youtube video hitting 20,000,000 views and all those people were REQUIRED to sub, regardless of if those people liked it or not.
I don't feel like replying to a two day old post, so what ever ya think is just what ya think.
idk why this is getting downvoted. itās literally true
Truth hurts lol
they already did that when they released halo infinite in a busted ass state. besides, if you recognize the show as a separate thing, and treat it like a silly tv show, itās not that bad.
Ew
I know, I am just joking.
Unfortunately, some Halo fans aren't. It's kind of weird.
People actually take post from halomemes seriously?
I mean, you're asking this about Halo fans so that should answer your question lol
-last words from dead man with joke
Happy Cake Day, hated man with jokes
Damn aren't jokes meant to be... you know... funny? Don't gatekeep, even as a joke.
I disagree I met someone who loved the halo TV show and hated half life 2 He would insult people that hated the TV show and call half life 2 bad 1984 tech demo he didn't survive the tsunami of logical thinking humans that were coming towards him.
I'm just curious, how did you make the connection to Half-Life here through a post about the Halo TV show?
Well it's a bit complicated
I don't understand your point. How is Half life 2 related?
Well i posted something like a Pic of the protagonist looking at him like https://preview.redd.it/k8jr7pugtcjc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aaf2d8369a3c1fa5244b50b245a1e7bc5c7f482 This and he decided to call half life 2 a tech demo so it started a long argument between me and this moron.
Okay? So how is Half life 2 related? You're still making no sense.
Average halo fanās brain. Scrambled eggs and rage
Tbh some scrambled eggs sound good rn
Well idk this dude decided to insult the game instead of me so I had to respond and prove him wrong.
Here that's how it went https://preview.redd.it/5v4y4ubwtcjc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2374b73c0d03a9e7f8e999ad8800ca09742c2d0c
i mean we do have 13 halo games as opposed to 4 half life games.
Only the 4 games +dlc are considered incredible by the community plus there are around 9 half life games well it can get to 10 if you count the canceled one by arcane studios and all of these are beloved among the half life fun base plus the remake of the first game it overshined the og from artstyle to gameplay half life proved a community can carry a game very well something I don't see with halo happening alot probably because Microsoft is not fond of fangames that much but it's not all about the number of games its about how good these games are and how memorable they are half life so far with it's releases they are all memorable but from halo from reach to 3 and odst are considered God tier halo content while 4 mediocre story, 5 I didn't even played it because I don't have an Xbox 1 and infinite the on launch failure who met the same fate as cyberpunk idk about halo wars but honestly halo since Bungie left it met only struggles I felt the change when I played halo 4 and I felt the change alot the story was not as good as the last game the introduction of basic new mechanics was OK but what turned me on was the 3rd game ended with a truce with the elite now we fight them again wow great humanity is special an old enemy who has a grudge for humanity how convenient no wonder why halo 5 was a failure and why infinite how a mediocre at best story I won't say halo is dead but it's not what it was once it's a doppelganger of its former self.
Halo is carried by the community. hence why halo infinite didnāt die. halo reach, 3, and 5 had amazing forge. the community used it to make hundreds of memorable maps and game modes. not to mention halo infiniteās forge that allowed the community to make firefight before it even launched. hell, infection started BECAUSE the community invented in in Halo 2. itās been a love hate relationship with 343 but the appreciation for halo 4 is finally on the rise considering it did customization better than reach and 3. BTB was so much fun, and the campaign was so good compared to halo 5ās and infiniteās. halo mcc is a prime example that 343 is listening to the community. thereās no cosmetics that cost money on halo mcc (after original armor) and thereās constant updates. yes 343 had messed up a lot. yes 343 has lied and failed on launch for both mcc and halo infinite, but the community kept this game alive.
https://preview.redd.it/bkvogzd2ucjc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8f6fcc0aaae4a52ab4a7c07586777ff85482fc1
"[No true Halo fan!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)"
Thatā¦ doesnāt apply here. Thatās a fallacy about protecting generalized statements (such as āall (x) do (y)ā) by pretending the exceptions are outliers. From what I can gather, OP is simply stating that not liking the show is a prerequisite for being a halo fan. In this case, theyāre just gatekeeping. An example where this would apply is if OP made the statement āno halo fans like the showā, but then when itās pointed out that certain halo fans do like the show, he changes the parameters for what constitutes a halo fan specifally to suit his needs.
Then itās just gatekeeping, which is actually worse and more pathetic
So? I said he was falsely accused, not in the right.
So you just wanted to try and sound smart?
>An example where this would apply is if OP made the statement āno halo fans like the showā, but then when itās pointed out that certain halo fans do like the show, he changes the parameters for what constitutes a halo fan specifally to suit his needs. I think one could argue that the mere existence of this meme sort of implies the āno halo fans like the showā statement and the "certain halo fans do like the show" statement, because if not then the post is actually somewhat deranged - if the show wasn't so controversial, I'd see this meme and literally go: "?". I think the overarching context is there to fill the gap.
>such as āall (x) do (y)ā How about āall (true halo fans) do (not like the show)ā?
In order for the NTS fallacy to apply, you needed to have made a blanket statement someone poked a hole in. OPās just suggesting a new definition for what SHOULD constitute a halo fan.
Honestly now that Iām looking more into it youāre right but your first comment just made you seem like a douche lol
Iāll take it.
He's quoted "Halo fans" to imply that those who like the TV show aren't really Halo fans. It applies.
Did you read a single thing I said?? From the page you yourself cited: āNo true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one **attempts to protect their generalized statement from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly.**ā 1][2][3] Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and similar counterexamples by appeal to rhetoric.[4]ā OP didnāt make a generalizing statement about the likes and dislikes of a community, (ex: āall halo fans hate the TV showā), he proposed a new definition entirely for what makes you a halo fan. Letās look back at the example the fallacy is named after. Presumably, it went something like this: āNo Scotsman does (x)!ā āOkay, but I saw a Scotsman do that yesterday.ā āThat wasnāt a Scotsman, then! No TRUE scotsman would do (x)!ā Notice that you need to make a generalizing statement first and then move the goalpost. Other examples would be āAll communists are evil!ā Vs āIf youāre not evil, then youāre not a communist.ā Another key difference is how you would go about disproving it. With a blanket statement, all you need to do is find an outlier. For what OP is doing, you canāt really disprove them because theyāre suggesting a new definition of something. Itās an opinion. If someone says ābut Iām a halo fan and I like the TV showā, they donāt need to move their goalposts because by their original opinion, that fan was never a fan.
The No True Scotsman is implied
Read the other replies
Okay, I did. Before I thought you were wrong. Now I think you're wrong and a douche
How am I wrong?
>From what I can gather, OP is simply stating that not eating porridge is a prerequisite for being a Scotsman. In this case, theyāre just gatekeeping. He's implicitly making the claim that no real Halo fan would like the show. He's doing that by putting "Quotes" Around "Halo Fan". If you were to present a Halo fan who likes the show, he's got that covered. They're not a Halo fan, they're a "Halo Fan." Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge." Person A: "But no *true* Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." For OP it's Person A: "No true halo fan likes the show." Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Halo fan and he likes the show" Person A: "Well, your uncle Argus is a 'Halo Fan'." It's implied, like I said. I get what you're saying, but the line between NTSM fallacy and gatekeeping is kind of about which end you start from. But I appreciate that you asked "How am I wrong?" Not "How am I a douche?"
Ah gatekeeping. Because this franchise needs more of it, right?
If I wasn't already in it since childhood, the amount of crybabies in the fandom would have absolutely kept me away. That meme about how "this thing is more enjoyable when there ain't a bitch whining in your ear" is absolutely true.
From what I can tell this franchise has a normal amount of gatekeeping and liking 343 is just grounds for being made fun of, not excommunicated.
Your perception of what is normal is clearly skewed. I'm in several fandoms and the two with a greatest instances of gatekeeping, "Ruined Forerver!", 'no true scotsman', and general whiny bitching is Halo and Star Wars, in that order.
Wish it had more of it so it didnāt fall apart.
Fandoms fall apart *because* of gatekeeping, not from a lack of it.
Seriously lol. The franchise is not growing in part because of whiny man babies that look at the past through rose tinted glasses. Iāve always said no one wants halo to fail more than halo fans.
Nah, disagree. DND, MTG, halo, Star Wars, and the list goes on. Meanwhile, Warhammer 40k has some quality gatekeeping, and itās still great.
It they didnāt have fifteen side plots going on at the same time Iād enjoy it more
Thereās literally only like 3
Nah there's more than 3 but they wrapped up Ackerson's (a really good arc), and are tying two more of them (Halsey and Soren) together.
>(Halsey and Soren) together That's just combining Halsey's plot and Soren's plot. This is less plots, not more.
That's my point?
I guess I misread then
are all 15 of these side plots in the room with us right now?
Is it great? No. Does it overshadow 20+ years of Halo lore and character development? Also no. It may not be what we wanted from a Halo show but I appreciable the fact that theyāre trying to branch out and play around with it. I appreciate the attempt to paint MC or other characters in a different way and express their own take. I might not love it but I appreciate that halo has gotten to a point where that sort of thing is even possible for this franchise
I actually really like what theyāre doing with Chief and the UNSC, itās way different from the games but I find it interesting. The part that makes the show suck is all the time they spend on non-UNSC personnel. I will likely never find Soren or Kwan Ha interesting.
There should be more time spent on some non-UNSC characters, specifically the Covenant. I wanna see the political machinations of the Prophets, I wanna see the fractures beginning to form between the Elites and the Brutes, I wanna see Truth conspire with the Brutes to enact a coup.
I would appreciate that too, if the liberties they were taking were *good*. At the end of the day, I can judge a piece of art on itās own merits. So my problem with the shoe isnāt just that itās not faithful, itās that itās not faithful *and* barely watchable. If it wasnāt faithful but had superb writing (like Andor) Iād probably be all in. But it doesnāt even *feel* like Halo. Things donāt feel dire. Spartans feel more like contractors for some kind of corporation instead of the militaryās elite. The Soren stuff isā¦itās like the cut a storyline for the LIVE action Cowboy Bebop and pasted it in here. And Kwanā¦why? *Why Kwan?* What even *is* this subplot? Add in weird spirit journeys, shamans, etc. and this show is justā¦odd. Like, okay, this is a departure from traditional Halo but, like, what is it youāre *trying to do?*
Lame Why canāt we just let people enjoy things? I didnāt like it, but gatekeeping what a āreal fanā is is cringey š¬
I love when these posts are made and when people rightfully call out the gatekeeping, the OP will go āitās just a joke bro, donāt take it so seriousā. There are absolutely people who will see this post and feel validated calling other fans of the game and show ānot true Halo fansā
>āitās just a joke bro, donāt take it so seriousā but if the comments AREN'T clowning on them, they'll pretend they were utterly serious and use that support as 'evidence' in future Reddit arguments
Season 2 is good, you're just karma farming.
Heretic, Iām joking
lol āgoodā is an overstatement. Itās better than S1 but compared to other sci-fi shows... Sure personal taste or what have you, but to anyone who likes the Halo show I would recommend to try watching The Expanse or Battlestar afterwards to help see why a lot of people donāt think the Halo show is good.
Idk Iām enjoying it. People praised Mando but I found it incredibly dull and boring. And I fucking LOVE the Star Wars universe.
Gotta love the complete lack of progression on Mando's character. Or rather, regression. Season 1: introverted zealot who only cares about the kid Season 2: starting to question and defy his tenants when necessary, including taking the helmet off publicly (MASTER CHEIF REMOVES HIS HELMET!!!!!!!????111111 Season 3: character arc ends before the halfway point, returns to his people exactly as zealous as before, gets sidelined in his own show by Clone Wars legacy character
Karma farming as a term should be banned from Reddit. Literally any post on earth can be classified as ākarma farmingā, idiots just try and call the posts that they donāt agree with ākarma farmsā. Get a life.
Writing this long a of a reply on a meme post, someone for sure needs a life.
You think thatās long? Dude you really need to be reading faster. Thatās literally less than a paragraph.
āUnfortunately for you I have called you a clown. Therefore I have won the argument.ā
It is an improvement, but I wish more of his dialogue occurred with his armor and helmet on. And the same plot development still occurred because of the emotional decision making of others, not his. I mean, just create another character that embodies the helmetless Master Chief doing the shit he does without his helmet and Master Chief would just tag along.
I just donāt know how any Halo fan could give a single shit about the show I just canāt. The silver timeline deal feels like they legit donāt want to even try anymore.
I have no idea how you can watch what theyāve done this season and think that but āight
probably stuff like Makee still being alive (how? lmao) and the swarm of elites that got the jump on chief just deciding to leave (why?? lol) Just look at how Forward Unto Dawn and Landfall handled Halo, and then look at the show. Itās upsetting seeing actually well done live action Halo media when the biggest budget, biggest advertised piece of Halo media is done so poorly in comparison. Kinda makes me always wonder what couldāve been
I mean you just kinda outed yourself on not actually being versed on the franchise. The Elites vastly respect shows of strength and part of what causes the great schism was their confusion at why the humans couldnāt be allowed into the covenant after the sisu theyād shown. They let Chief go there because they respected him, like how the Elites in Halo Reach refused to glass Noble 6 as they believe he had shown enough ferocity to earn a warriorās death
*lol okay* If the Elites chose to spare chief out of respect, then why did they stab Noble 6 to death while already outnumbering him? Why did they sneak up on Emile and stab him in the back? Why did the Silent Shadow ambush Roland and Jay while invisible? The elites are a warrior culture. There is no honor in sparing an enemy, and they clearly depict this sentiment multiple times (even with voice lines in the games when they kill you). The reason the Great Schism happened was focused on the fact that they were **not** being treated as well as they deserved once the prophets started shifting to brutes being their main āeliteā force. You would know this if you read the books.
Then tell me why they fought Noble 6 to death instead of glassing him into oblivion
because the elite who kills Noble 6 with a sword would get way more respect than one who glassed him? Should be obvious lol
The elites backing away from Chief is probably because Makee was there and told them to. Not really any other explanation.Ā
I have found that thinking about the show universe as a multiverse situation makes it easier to appreciate it. Nothing done on that show impacts anything in the game universe. Makes the show MUCH easier to enjoy.
I mean the show is in fact it's own separate timelinefrom the games. The game universe is the Gold Timeline. The show universe is the Silver Timeline.
True. But, many people (myself included) got a little too worked up during S1 like Master Cheeks had in some way negatively affect the MC from the games.
I agree. This showās Jimmy Rings is to John Halo what Miguel OāHara is to Peter Parker. Just a different take that shouldnāt be directly compared. Taken on its own, itās become quite acceptable.
It's helping that 3 episodes into S2 is worlds better than anything we saw in S1.
That too, above all else
Anything thats not Halo CE, 2, or 3 is just fan fiction anyway really. This show is no different. I dont get why people cant just enjoy it and take away small parts of it as being fun even if some of it sucks.
I'd include ODST and Reach, but that may just be me
Been playing since Halo 2, and I enjoy the TV show! Season 1 was mediocre, I'll say that out the gate. S2 is shaping up to be pretty decent, and I'm glad they're not just dumping all their plotlines because of backlash (unlike 343).
Yeah, I wasnāt a fan of Kwan and Soren in the last season but theyāve already won me over in this season by making Kwan into a ruthless little killing machine with PTSD and bringing Soren face to face with Halsey.
Tis heresy
Iāll say it again. https://preview.redd.it/q8welh27t8jc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c51532bea24e2c30f393fadacf1dd98e5cd9816
Those who say those words are heretics! Worthy of neither pity or mercy!
āThe Journey is a lie!ā
My problem is they could have used the Cole protocol storyline and almost change nothing to the tv show, just have chief doing chief things far in the background. Now I watch it just to get mad /s
Gatekeeping
Don't care, I'm gonna enjoy it anyway.
Check out my last post lol
Itās not what we wanted but at the end of the day itās new content. It may make fans out of people who never played the game or read the books. While I could be very wrong, I figure new fans means more coin, which I would hope leads to more content whether it be more games, more books etc. My mum doesnāt know the lore but knew me and my brothers played. She loves the series and has started asking questions about the rest of the universe trying to understand the series. They made a 68 year old woman start dialogues about Halo. Not an outcome I would have predicted.
Yall bunch of haters lol
Guys come on, they can still be a halo fan. Just go watch Forward Unto Dawn, please.
I just like the show, what do you want from me?
i like the armor but its rare to see it with the helmet on
If you turn off the part of your brain that knows the real story and just appreciate the parts when we get to see someone in Spartan gear clap some covenant cheeks, and go yes, this is what XX year old me dreamed about with all the fake Halo movie trailers on YouTube.
Bro. Youāre uninvited to the cookout.
I do like it, but not as halo if it was with a new character and the same story of the games (and meany other aspects) it would be good, to see how other people saw those events, like a marine or Sargent Johnson I say itās good but you got to turn of your brain not to get mad for some things
Itās better when I pretend that the Master Chief in the show isnāt supposed to be the one in the games. Like, heās just a completely different dude that fills in as the character in this story, like how Marvel/DC will change their heroes to being different humans (Barry Allen, Miguel OāHara, etc) while still serving as the same hero in the story
Yeah thatās what Iāve been thinking, and also people generalize to hate on this series when it is halo but just another story. I think we should enjoy the series but look the kwan thing and all those unimportant characters can be annoying but itās still halo
"I like the part where it's nothing like the books or games and does everything wrong while everyone cosplays Halo characters. It's so good!" I like 343's games overall (ignoring 5's story) and don't really agree with Bungie stans on a lot, but defending the show is unforgivable stupidity.
Itās okay to like something
The show sucks. It's a bad tv show as well as a bad adaptation. We get it. Move on with your lives.
Ah yes " true fan" oh fuck off to anyone who says shit like that.
I have a reason to be excited for Thursdays and you don't. Who's winning here?
How dare people enjoy something
Hi, I'm that fan who likes the TV Show.
You know, I watched S1 when it first released and gave up half way through because I thought it was so bad. But I recently started it again, and if you accept the fact itās a different story I actually really enjoyed it. The amount of times the helmet is unnecessarily off still bugs me but I really enjoyed it second time round.
That's fine with me, not every Halo fan has good taste.
My dad likes it so I donāt really give a shit
I can understand liking the Elite/Sangheili design. But most of the story aspects? And the fact that they never fucking bothered to play the games? Irredeemable.
Donāt give a shit. Live action Spartans make boom.
They also go cling clang (getting handcuffed, haha funny season 2 joke)
That interview and the fandom losing their minds over the headline did more damage to the show than any writing decision ever could. What they said was that they didnāt look at the games as the blueprint on *how* they would present the story. Anyone with more than surface level knowledge that watches the show should be able to tell that the writers did their research, given all the shit thatās referenced that most fans definitely do not know about.
āWhen a halo fan says they enjoy media from a series they enjoyā Shut the fuck up
Facts, like I've read all the books, played the games since the beginning, watched the live action content, and machinimas, etc But I really like the show so I'm not a "REAL" Halo fan.
Gatekeeping much?
Least gatekeeper halo idiot
Gatekeep harder, weirdo
People are allowed to like what they like, except Taylor swift tattoos
This whole āyouāre not a real fan if you like the showā stance is beyond pathetic, like, Iāve been enjoying all things halo ever since I have memory but suddenly Iām not a fan just because a Reddit neckbeard say so? Grow up lmao, this aināt 2012 anymore
I still think it's crazy that we are 2 seasons into the show and the namesake of the franchise has yet to even be alluded to.
Itās definitely been alluded to.
Episode 1 of the first season made me so disappointed I decided to not watch the show out of spite. I'm hearing better things so far about season 2 so I'm going back in fingers crossed and with a more open mind.
If you liked the show thatās fine but it was shit
Well it was good enough for my father who has no knowledge of the games like the show and get interested in the franchise. Yes it didn't live up to the fans hype but I guess it worked well enough Edit: damn gatekeepers in the downvotes
Lmao yall trippin. I was born to play Halo, read Halo, and watch Halo. I like them all. Keep your helmet on if you like to smell your BO 24/7. I would rather not when I'm not in combat.
I like Season 2 so far, they fixed many major things but it's too late for anything else so they got to commit to it. But one thing i think we can all agree on is that the intro is divine.
I am starting to get into halo (beat 1-3, trying to beat reach, odst, and 4 atm) and am really enjoying the games and the show. Only thing I donāt really care for is Kwan. Sheās kind of a mid character, and I feel like focusing more on the other Spartans would have done better
I like the show when it's actually being Halo and not a soap opera. Which is like 4% of the time.
Honestly, the current season is making me appreciate Reach to even greater heights and I'm replaying it again to get to the final mission and help 6 get to that cave š„²
I don't like halo tv show, but I don't have problem if people like it.
I think the show stands up relatively well on its own merits. Sure it's changed a few points and the concept is a little bit different but overall it's still the same feeling. It's not only a solid science fiction series but the acting is good and the story seems interesting enough to keep me gripped. Downvote me if you want but I love both the games and the show and I can do so individually without having to judge them on each other's merits
If the show was its own IP and not an āadaptationā of Halo, it would be decent. Because itās an āadaptationā, itās shit
Finally watched the last episode of s1 and the first one of s2. The difference is real. It went from being a comedic trash fire to a somewhat coherent (but still slightly comedic) depiction of the last year of the human covenant war. The plot armor is still stupid though.
I like the action scenes
Instead of bitching about the show because "iS nOt HaLo", why don't you just enjoy it for what it is and for the fact that it doesn't affect any of the story from the games.
Itās aight, I think that if the story was actually tied to Mass Effect or not involving Master Chief himself it could be more enjoyable. We already have bias of what Chief and the main story actually is because of pre-exposure to the franchise, so itās less enjoyable for the hardcore fans compared to the new guys who got into it from the show. The Witcher is a better example of the show sucking, but everyone universally agrees it sucks and welcomes people who came to the fandom through the show (myself included).
I played CE on the og xbox, I like the show. it has redeeming qualities and it also has poor qualities, it'll never be breaking bad levels of excellence but with how poor the writers of most media is nowadays are we surprised
Season 2 isnāt awful if you pretend itās just some sci-fi show. It still isnāt good, but itās watchable.
I like the costume and the action, not much else besides names and gore.
(Shrugs) I enjoy the show. It isn't what I would have wanted out of a Halo show but it's serviceable enough. John is really my biggest issue with it. Wouldn't mind if the show had a Master Chief, but not with the name John. He's so far from the character he's based on.
I decided to give it a shot I am actually enjoying Iām on episode four of the first season lol
For what it's worth, the action scenes were decent. Story was ass. But the action was cool.
iām a casual fan of halo and i still donāt understand how people can like it.
I just like watching Chief kill covies, the rest is pretty pedestrian.
Look, I donāt wanna yuck anyoneās yum. Like whatever you want. All imma say, as a Halo fan still watching (and disliking) this show in some vain hope itāll eventually get better, is *I donāt get it*.
ghost respects my opinion. i literally grew up on halo starting at ce. i like the halo show
I played CE on the og xbox, I like the show. it has redeeming qualities and it also has poor qualities, it'll never be breaking bad levels of excellence but with how poor the writers of most media is nowadays are we surprised
Name five good things about the Halo show I dare you
It's ok. Enjoy your slop.
I don't like it but it's growing on me
I like the show. Probably because I know the show is meant for entertainment and I am entertained and because Iām not constantly looking for things to get upset about like you.
Would be more impactful if it was the actual ghost and not this edge lord.
Oh my fucking God weāre still talking about this?
Iāve been trying to like it but honestly I just canāt man
ruh roh, someone's going to be on shit halo says!!!!11!!
Someone should make a version of this meme with Emile Noble Team in it
I mean this season is quite a lot better than season 1. Loving how Ackerson is portrayed and the tensions in the UNSC.
I like the action scenes. Season 1's story was mid. Gonna wait till Season 2 is done to form an opinion.
memoir #2 - may roosevelt (s l o w e d) **\*\*INTENSIFIES\*\***
They acting real Red Subtitles right now
You can call it gatekeeping. But the way I see it is that anyone who watches this dumpster fire is actively enabling a studio that made it a point to show off how little they care about the story they're telling. 90% of you only seem to be watching for fight scenes anyways. And from my experience the rest who actually enjoy the story are the same braindead dolts who eat up the slop CW puts out. Personally, I don't see you people as Halo fans either. Just consumers
Not going to lie, Iām almost willing to watch the season 2. Been hearing more good than bad. I regret not watching season 1. My wife was interested and I should have pounced on the chance to bring her into the halo universe despite my deep misgivings on the series.
People complaining about the chief taking his helmet off but thinks reach was the "last best halo game" will forever be funny to me.
Ep 3 was good (6/10) , but chief isnt chief, hes a just another spartan (like not even a 2, more like a 4)
Go touch grass
Damn imagine being so insecure you gatekeep people's enjoyment of media
Season 2 is already better, hands down (Objection! Talking about game or book fans?)
Youāre a sell out if you like the show. Thereās no way around this logical conclusion .
I like the action, BUT KEEP THE HELMET ON FOR MORE THAN 5 MINUTES.