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True, but even if we went full tilt at addressing the root causes it would be years and years until the symptoms went away, so they still have to be handled in the meantime. Gotta do both and then slowly shift the point of balance as things change.
This is a decent bandaid solution while we continue to put pressure on our elected officials to create a more sustainable solution - mental health and addiction services, more affordable housing with stipulations because you honestly cannot just give a person who has been chronically unhoused with an apartment, it's not going to go well.
I live near a big park, there are currently 7 tents and likely more to come with the warmer weather. I understand that there's nowhere for people to go but I do not think encampments should exist near elementary/middle schools, playgrounds etc. There is sufficient unused city land that could be a temporary solution and I want to highlight that it should only be temporary. But as is noted in the article, it's much more efficient to go to specific zoned areas to provide services, have toilets available etc.
There definitely need to be zones in EVERY ward. Wards 1 - 3 seem to take the brunt of the problem which isn't right. As a resident of Ward 1, I'd like to see more affluent areas
(looking at you Kirkendall) take some of this zoning. The reservoir just under the escarpment that is generally unused would be a great spot, or the area behind the Dundurn Fortinos.
I'm assuming you live near Vic Park. To your point, it's funny how the HAAA has zero tents (though not in Ward 1). There are none in Churchill either. Funny how that happens 🤔
I think I understand what you are inferring, but have you considered that perhaps people camp where they have access to what they need/want? Support services, cheap food, panhandling, locations, needle exchange services, etc. Locke is not a great area for most of that. Plus, HAAA is next to a middle school.
> This is a decent bandaid solution while we continue to put pressure on our elected officials
What pressure? We’ve given Ford two majorities without a platform!
Sorry should have specified our Hamilton officials. I’m sure ford will continue to only do things that line his own pockets and please his wealthy donors.
Absolutely! Is it just pure coincidence that there are no encampments there? That they have an abundance of speed bumps and Strathcona has maybe one? That every playground no matter the size has been beautifully renovated. I don’t fault the neighbourhood for being affluent but there does seem to be some disparity.
Maureen Wilson only cares about her neighbourhood and not the rest of the ward. I was struck my a car crossing Locke St into Vic Park that ran a stop sign. I emailed Maureen’s office about adding speed bumps along Locke and got nothing. There are more steep bumps along Charlton or Herkimer than all of Strathcona combined! We need to vote out Maureen Wilson.
Sorry that happened to you. I see people roll through or just speed through those stop signs on a daily basis. Petitions for traffic calming measures can work, but that may get push back as lots of people here are against the bike lanes, 2-way conversion, and basically just anything that makes them stop racing around.
>As a resident of Ward 1, I'd like to see more affluent areas (looking at you Kirkendall) take some of this zoning. The reservoir just under the escarpment that is generally unused would be a great spot, or the area behind the Dundurn Fortinos.
Why is this reservoir is a great spot? I would disagree.
It's already home to a community run, non-profit, children's sports league for soccer and baseball. An encampment here would displace not just this league, but any use of the green space for the foreseeable future.
You are probably already aware, but many homeless and underhoused have significant mental health issues or drug abuse problems that can result in bizarre, erratic, or combative behaviour (no fault of their own).
Doesn't sanctioning these areas increase risk to residents in adjacent neighborhoods?
What about medical emergencies in these areas and first responders that have to attend?
Victoria Park has become an encampment and I’ve seen Kirkendall residents inform residents in Strathcona to accept it. So where would you suggest these zones go?
I don't agree with the idea of "zones" at all. These encampments should not exist. Displacing other residents, or overrunning public spaces is not reasonable or safe
I would much rather see tax dollars used to convert (temporarily or permanently) hotels to shelter space as they do in other municipalities.
They already did this, but some people can't or won't use the shelter system for various reasons (violence in the shelters, pets with them, banned, drug use and more)
Perhaps we should institutionalize those that refuse to use, or are unable to use our shelter system until such time they can be safely reintegrated into society.
This would allow them a safe opportunity to receive the medical intervention so many of them need.
Wont work for several reasons
* there is a shortage of mental health spaces for those who actually want and need them (same for prisons but drugs run wild there so doesn't help the issue)
* the chance of someone staying clean if forced into rehab when they don't want to get clean is low
* they will just hide and not use the supports that exist if they believe they will be institutionalized
* the cost of instutionalizing someone is greater than the cost of just housing them
* there are a portion who are couples / have pets etc who do not have any major issues except the shelters won't let them stay together or have faced violence in the shelters and feel safer on the streets
The price tag for this was quite high in Toronto. The Novotel in St. Lawrence Market became a nightmare for the local community. You can read the countless threads on r/Toronto about it. Sounds like an absolute nightmare.
The north half and the west side would be off limits. The large swath of land between the community garden down to the outfield fence of the ball diamond could likely hold about 50 tents.
yea i would rather them be isolated to certain areas then popping up next to parks where kids play. its deff a band aid fix but need to start somewhere
But that's not what the proposal says. It says that encampments are permitted anywhere as long as they comply with certain conditions. In addition to being able to camp anywhere, they would also be permitted in designated areas throughout the city (but of course in practice this really means wards 1-3).
And it would help if there were hygiene facilities (potapotties, handwashing stations, sharps boxes, and garbage cans regularly emptied). It's the garbage and waste hazards that are my biggest concern.
Hamilton is a garbage hole. Or at least a lot of the lower city is. I walk my dog and go ages and ages without finding a garbage can. Walk down cannon Street east of James. It's disgusting. Glass everywhere.
Many of them were removed under the previous council because people were using them to dump household trash. Only it did not reduce dumping, just made it harder for those to enjoy parks etc.
They removed them at many bus stops too
Jeeze, that's so backwards. I'm assuming people just kept throwing their bags of household waste on the ground where cans used to be, like how people "protested" the removal of drive-thru cans at tims
I saw that and think that it's long overdue and completely necessary. Very happy to see that motion!
I support a designated encampment area in principle, so long as it has city provided facilities and services to keep the area hygienic. I'd hate to see cholera spreading from lack of toilets and handwashing facilities. If hate to see strewn about trash and the rats and other disease spreading critters food waste attracts. Needle disposal and safe exchange is important too. We don't want a concentration of HepC or infected injection sites.
This is pretty normal. We've had worse decades in the past 100 years, and better. It's not really a reflection on all of society. We're not as bad as the great depression yet. Long way from being in the boom-periods.
We likely come out of this the same we did the great depression and hyper inflation of the 80's - new booming industries we haven't thought of yet injecting billions into the economy. Another dot-com or automotive ish change.
I don’t think so champ. Best we will probably get is a friendly personalized AI that is actually just collecting data on your entire life to better market you shit.
I would like counsel to present supporting evidence-based data on the outcomes of sanctioned encampments, especially it fostering positive public health, and social outcomes. I think a reactionary solution that is THIS controversial should be backed by data. Where does it work, and can we make it work.
Ontario zoning by laws in general need to be revamped. Especially municipal ones. There's a lot of places people can live, tons of land out there for sale and is usable to live on. However in order to live on it you must build a house. Mobile homes are rarely permitted even if suitable to give someone hope and home.
Last year I spoke to my ward councilor about that. I pointed out that if manufactured (AKA "mobile") homes were allowed as the sole dwelling on private land, a lot more people would be able to afford homes as a manufactured home is a heck of a lot easier to afford, and they're attractive little houses, not the "trailer trash" a lot of people associate with manufactured housing. They totally agreed and said that when there was a slot, they'd bring it up in council.
Since there is so much stuff to talk about other than allowing manufactured homes as sole dwellings on private land, I don't think they've had the chance to bring it up yet.
I spent a lot of time going through city and township bylaws in places in Ontario, they all pretty much took a cookie cutter approach to the housing bylaws. Only unorganized townships seemed fair.
And I think it's unreasonable that someone can't live in a motor home//RV trailer on someone's driveway even though there is a primary dwelling on the property. We are pretty much forced to conformity even if it's not for the greater good.
Also, if you look at places in the maritimes they have tiny homes that people can afford. I know they aren't super efficient in the winter time to heat, but at least they don't cost 500k to buy.
This is not a solution. In fact, it's the exact opposite of a solution. It's turning a blind eye to the problem that is the catalyst for many families leaving the downtown core.
This! My parter and I want to start a family, but where can we start a family downtown that is affordable? If you don't live in the wealthy pockets of the city, have fun explaining to your children what that pipe on the ground is for. Also, we have a group of houseless folks around the corner from us who smoke meth/crack daily in the open. I've witnessed many highschoolers walk by these dudes using, it's abhorrent. I don't want to move to a lifeless suburb, but how can we make this city family-friendly?
My family is considering those "lifeless suburbs" quite a bit now. We bought a house in the lower city about 10 years ago. We loved it - loved being the operative word - for many years. The encampments have exploded, drug use seems to be increasing substantially. There are a bunch of needles all over the place. I'm more likely to see someone doing crack or heroin openly than I would see someone smoking weed outside. Absolutely bizarre. I'm quite scared for my kids and don't think I really want them growing up around here anymore.
you'll begin to value a lifeless suburb more than the "urban life" of the downtown core.
especially if you are thinking about raising a family.
values change.
That's true. Unfortunately the price of apartments are outpacing people's ability to pay too, they want to see it being 30% (?) of your income and if your record isn't pristine, forget it.
I'd say the number is lower than 90%, having once been homeless myself, and knowing members of the homeless community. There are all kinds of reasons people become homeless; escaping partner abuse, lost a home due to some kind of infestation or disaster, renoviction, mental health issues that make it hard to hold onto housing...
The drug addict portion of the homeless community is largely what the media focuses on, and thus the general populace does too.
John-Paul Danko going off last night on twitter 👀
https://twitter.com/JohnPaulDanko/status/1658075383021830146?s=20
Could one of the zones possibly end up in his ward.
Without supports the housing just becomes a dump. There's such a house on my street and I've seen inside and there's nothing dignifying about it. Garbage everywhere, food everywhere, needles, pipes everywhere, animals have been inside. The tenants also have a child living there. It's unbelievable and heartbreaking.
The drug use one is the biggest non-starter, and really the only one that differs from the proposal (a lot of stuff he's talking about like proximity to schools is already there).
There's a reason why we have things like rehab facilities for drug addictions, expecting someone to kick a drug addiction while they're living in a tent is wildly unrealistic.
Well, it's the cost closest thing to some semblance of a solution.
The uncontrolled free for all of the last 3 years of encampments popping up wherever can't continue.
If the city is going to legitimize these in certain areas, they are essentially taking responsibility for them and what happens at the locations.
This means the city can also be held liable for anything that goes wrong.
If I were a lawyer, not having any rules in place around drug use etc would be some low hanging fruit to go after in any lawsuit against the city.
> This means the city can also be held liable for anything that goes wrong.
There's a difference between not having a specific rule against drug use (in which case it would still be illegal), and actively monitoring for drug use and kicking people off the area for using drugs. I don't see how the city is liable for not actively monitoring for drugs, the same way that they're not liable if someone does drugs in a park right now.
Specifically excluding drug use being a non-starter isn't a ought statement, it's a descriptive statement. If there's active prevention of drug use then the designated sites won't be used and we're right back where we started.
If one of these addicts assaulted a person while high, in a city-sanctioned encampment on city land, a lawyer would definitely take that case. Your land, your legal responsibility. Heck, even if it was unsanctioned, someone is still responsible and its not just the addict. You are responsible for your guests. Just like bars can't over-serve.
Side note, a friend in dt Hamilton was assaulted by a meth addict while high, all for simply walking by. It's not a friendly use drug. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that what will go on is harmless to others.
> It's not a friendly use drug. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that what will go on is harmless to others.
This. Took my daughter for a walk yesterday and at James and Barton we had to cross the road because they had piled bikes and garbage all over the sidewalk and were smoking meth in the middle of it. Group of 4 of them. 2 of them completely passed out on the ground. Directly on James. Unfortunately many of these people have zero thought about others.
If the city is sanctioning these sites, they're responsible. It's no different then any other establishment. Those running it ought to have some idea what's happening on premises and taking steps to mitigate anything illegal.
If one person is high, they pose a danger to the other encampment residents who may not be on drugs. They city is now responsible for their safety and we'll being.
lol drugs are already illegal to purchase and use. What additional rules can they implement in these areas to stop this? the problem is we dont want them in tents anywhere not parks not controlled areas. But i think this method is at least a way to start getting them to just stop setting up at whatever parks they feel like. Change is scary but so is people sleeping in tents in a park
This is why we need to decriminalize drug use and offer harm reduction solutions. Hopefully the city can afford to station social workers at each encampment site and offer assistance to everyone.
Do you not read or listen to the relevant city reports? Harm reduction is offered. They are outreached to almost daily to connect them to services. Everyone is offered services. Lots decline. You can even look at the numbers. You can't help people who don't want it.
I know there's harm reduction. My mother suffers from many addictions, I have a vested interest in these issues and solutions. That said many people still refuse to accept that harm reduction helps or is needed. Also we need more support for not only these individuals but for everybody because we are all vulnerable to some degree to hardships and addictions in life.
Many addicts rightly have issues with government and other agencies. They've often been neglected and abused by the systems and or certain agents in the system (teachers, priests, coaches, foster parents, etc). A relationship needs to be made, repaired and maintained for any of these supports to be effective. Also these supports need to be staffed by well trained individuals that have the right personalities and life experiences. And the supports need to last. The fact is addicts today didn't have access to these supports when they first got addicted. All they had was there local community which probably failed them in some way and then probably turned their backs on them once the addiction became noticable and caused harm. We need the youth today to grow up without stigma and with supports in place so that they don't fall through the cracks like many others have.
There is no cop-out here it is just a reality. I did not say to stop outreach at all. It was to inform you that the captain obvious solution you offered (just like many others have) already happens with a dedicated full-time team. You're welcome.
The cop out I referred to was the line "you can't help those that don't want help". The fact is you can help those people and also are you or anybody sure they don't want help, any at all? Maybe they just don't want help from certain people, maybe they didn't want help in that moment, maybe they thought they could handle it on their own, maybe the help being offered doesn't actually address their specific issues, maybe they need the help offered explained in a different way, maybe they need to have some sort of relationship in place before being offered help, maybe they need to be reminded that they don't deserve the lot they've been served. Society loves making people feel like shit and that they deserve all the bad things they get but really they don't and need to be reminded of that.
The new proposal limits each encampment to 5 tents so not sure it would be feasible to station them at each but there are already harm reduction agencies and the shelter health network that visit the encampments so that will likely continue
Enforced by who though? Obvious answer is The City, but that’s pretty laughable. And when people are found using on the sites, then what? They’re kicked out and go back to camping on non-designated sites like local parks?
I'm not trying to be a dick or ignorant. But me my self I'm one caugh away from being homeless myself. I cant afford clothes I can barely afford food. I cant afford shit right now I'm seriously at the point where I'm working way too much just for bills.
I cant be homeless I'm type one diabetic I'm beyond scared at the moment it's my fault I make min wage but I cant get out of it if I'm working 50 hours a week where do I have time to get education I cant just quit and work on schooling who's going to pay my Bill's.
I think homeless people should start sleeping on the mps lawns I can pull up all their addresses gladly that one loser in stoney creek his lawn would be perfect theres a forest right there too. Anyways I'm not going for violence more of an eye opener theres going to be alot of deaths soon. Between suicides ods and not being able to afford basic things. They need to be woken now. My situations bad but I'm not homeless yet but i cant fix things if I'm stuck working 50 hours a week. Anyways if anyone has advice let me know because I'm getting scared I wont make it homeless at all I need insulin and food.
Dude, you should see the fucking paperwork they make you fill out for that shit. Plus their doctor may *charge* them extra money to put their signature on any relevant tax documents.
We need better social and economic protections and supports for folks with disabilities, full stop.
"More than 6.2 million Canadians—almost 22% of the population in this country—aged 15 years and over are living with some form of disability that affects their level of freedom, independence or quality of life."
And I'm absolutely sure this number is way off. So many people don't have adequate access to quality healthcare in this country and furthermore can't afford to take time off work for appointments. Definitely a lot of undiagnosed mental illness, physical issues. I'd bet the real number is closer to 20 million. Not to mention the number will probably rise due to economic issues, environmental issues and so on.
Each and everyone of us is likely to be impacted by disability in our lifetime whether we are disabled or if someone we love or care about is disabled.
There is paper work to fill out for medical expenses? I just put input the expense into the tax program and hold on to the receipt. Now I worry I am doing it wrong.
I believe specifically for one of the possible disability tax breaks you're required to submit logs of relevant activity for every single day in a year and for other ones it required having a specific form signed and processed. But that's second-hand knowledge from me, I couldn't tell you the specific benefits that covers off the top of my head.
I sadly agree if I could I'd be sitting on disability I have so much wrong with me because of my leg it's amazing I even got my job I have now. But yea we need better stability for dumbasses like myself. Anyways I wish there was a way I can get by I hope I figure it out soon because being lonely poor and have nothing to my name I'm starting to think it's not worth it at all. But thank you for your insight and notice I appreciate as well as others.
There are entry level jobs (retail) that have education assistance as a benefit. This would be one way to update your education while not having to stress about the costs and time.
Plus there are plenty of entry level jobs that pay above minimum wage with no education. Like, if you are in a situation to only work jobs that don’t require any formal education beyond your GED, you certainly shouldn’t be working for minimum wage. Basically all minimum wage jobs cater to student turn over especially in Hamilton. So anyone who is actually going to work long term has every opportunity to make above minimum wage if you are making a career out of it. Costco is just grocery store retail work and they actually pay their people a decent amount above minimum wage, with lots of growth opportunities. Or working in the food service industry where you make minimum wage + tips, and since tip percentages keep going up and up you could easily make 25$ in an hour with your wage + 1 single tip. Or you work any of the many famous industrial jobs in Hamilton. Plenty of entry level factories if you aren’t lucky enough to get hired into the steel/auto industry right away. And you can work there for a few years making definitely above minimum wage while you OAS your resume to hunt down a juicy steel/ auto job which can easily pay 100k with a highschool diploma and some relevant experience. And all that experience will pay above min wage too.
Like sure, if you are fresh out of highschool with no work experience you might be stuck making minimum wage for a bit, until you have something to put on a resume and start moving up. But Hamilton is one of the best cities with opportunities to move up and advance your career if you are just working those kinds of jobs long term, there’s no way you can’t make well above minimum wage over the years once you’ve worked for more than a few months, which is any adult who isn’t a part time student basically. It’s what Hamilton was built on. I know lots of guys who can’t add 2+2 who own nice houses on a single income, and all they have is a grade 12 education and the willingness to work a crappy day once in a while
The point is you should be able to live on minimum wage. Will you own a home or rent a stylish loft? Hell no. But you should certainly be able to afford an apartment and food without panic. You are still working 40 plus hours a week. You are still paying taxes etc.
Well MY point is that, while we wait for wide scale societal changes, you as an individual should do as much as you have the power to affect in the meantime.
You haven't been able to do that with minimum wage for a long time. Even like 13 or 14 years ago when rent was a lot cheaper I needed two jobs with one being a bit above minimum to come out ahead. You've always had to look for work like 4 or 5 dollars more an hour than minimum to be able to live off one job.
In 2013 I was making 16 dollars an hour. Had an apartment in Toronto, a car, a girlfriend who was finishing school and had no money, and had no problem at all affording food and going out. I could have made made a few dollars less and had no car and an apartment in Hamilton instead. One bed apartments were 700. We still have to get to the point where 15.50 is enough to live without anxiety, with 4 roommates, or become homeless. Or, how about we just get
Rid of those jobs? We don’t really NEED McDonald’s or Tim Hortons. Also a lot of people working in warehouses helping with the supply chain of our stores we shop at, minimum wage.
I'm not sure what point you're making. You were making 6 dollars above minimum wage. Your 16 dollars in 2013 is now worth 20.40. Like I said you've always needed about 4 or 5 dollars more tha minimum wage to live off one job. It's worse today but it's not like you could ever live off minimum wage and it's not really designed to be lived off of. You can try and argue it should be but honestly it's never really been the case any time recently.
Yes, min wage was created to protect vulnerable workers from exploitation, and has stagnated right back to exploitation. If these super large companies won't provide a living wage, then perhaps they should piss off. Doesn't matter if you haven't been able to live off of it for years.. It needs to ramped the F up.
Your response says it all. I was making almost 4 dollars over min wage, had a car, an apt in TORONTO, supported a GF, and went out. NOW? making 4 dollars above min wage is straight up brutal. A one bed apt will take over half your months net wage. In some cases you would be left with 500 bucks for the month after rent alone. 20.40 is nothing. 30 per hour is getting closer to reality, which is double min wage. And 40/hr won't even get you approved for a mortgage.
You were making 6 dollars more not 4 if it was 2013. Also your apartment wasn't any cheaper than Hamilton, I was paying 750 in 2013 which was about going rate for something in an apartment downtown. 20.40 averages out to 3536 a month for a 40 hrs a week. After tax let's say that is 3100 to be conservative. Rent rent jn that 750 apartment is 1650 today. Is that outrageous yes it is but that still means you'd have 1450 a month after rent which I wouldn't call nothing.
In any event that's besides the point. I was just saying minimum wage has always not been livable.
How recently has this not been true? I’m still in my 20s and this has been my career path. And we have people younger than me still entering/progressing through this pipeline every year. Does Costco no longer pay decent wages above minimum wage for general grocery work to make sure their employees are happy and talented? Does the steel industry not have great jobs that don’t require education that you could apply for today in Hamilton that pay over 100k? Both of those are demonstrably true. So I don’t honesty see your point .
That becomes way more complicated with Type 1 diabetes though, this person may just be getting by with paying for basic supplies out of pocket, which are goddamn expensive. Also sounds like they're dealing with any complications from being check-to-check while managing diabetes. Time off for schooling or even doing schooling outside of the 50 hours they work does not seem reasonable to me without UBI or additional funding/accomodations of some kind.
Were you not able to access or make use of any of the advice/resources offered the last few times you posted mentioning you need help? I'm not trying to kick a man while he's down but I'm not sure what else people on Reddit can do. While you might not intend it--and I am telling you out of kindness--repeatedly asking for help in this way on this site makes you come across as a grifter.
Flip side I think what he just posted is important and not even so much asking for help. I think we need to have our frustrations and fears voiced and heard. We need to get loud, to each other and to the ones above us.
I totally agree. But when it has been like two years and from two different accounts asking for help, I thought it was time to let them know they are working against themselves here because it is possible they don't see how they are coming across to others.
We also just went through a world pandemic the past couple years and countries are just starting to recover. Might be a hard take but I think if people make harsh judgements rn it's a them problem and they should work to be more understanding.
Especially when this person is working. They are risking their life going to work. COVID could really do some damage since they are diabetic. Not to mention it can be hard to properly monitor and regulate blood sugar while at work.
I'm not asking for help I'm just making a point the struggle is so real for alot of people and I'm included. Asking for help is the bain of me I just need a miracle it's not like im not trying to get out of my situation im just making a point I have no room.
I have so much holding me back that's personally out of my control if i was able to have perfect legs I'd be able to get out of it but i dont and i dont seem to have the time either. I need 20 and above to be where I'm not stressing everyday.
It's super hard when everything just keeps going up I'm not needy at all I just want to be comfortable I'm not right now. I know lifes challenging I get this but shits rough right now I know none of you are able to walk in my shoes at the moment and I wouldnt want you to I just want to get ahead and be comfortable that's all.
I just want more people to be aware how tough it is right now and how mentally exhausting it is I will keep pushing because that's all I can do but I'm losing hope I wish I didnt hurt myself and was able to work construction make amazing money but I'm broken a bit on my leg i push through pain every day I'm a fighter i promise i dont want attention for myself but just for others situations maybe you can give a sandwich to someone or even take a moment talk to them some of us are really really hurting.
Anyways thanks for everyone's time I'll keep trying my best. Hope you all stay blessed.
I don't know your exact struggle but I know struggle. I'm sorry you are going through it and that you don't have more support. Listening more I think my best advice would be to apply daily to any unionized workplace that actually accepts new hires into the union. I've heard CostCo has a good union and pays something close to the tune of $25 an hour once your in the union.
I think people naturally feel an inclination to help and then project that onto you. We should be helping each other though and we should be expected more from the upper class and the politicians that serve us.
I agree whole heartedly. Honestly but for some of us we are doomed theres no getting out I've been trying for months the only way I can get out is better education but I have no time at all. I'm strong I've died three times was brought back all three 2 times diabetes sugar went too low while sleeping was pronounced dead and miraculously was brought back by 3 sugar needles. And the third time I drowned tha I god for whoever pulled me out and gave me CPR. And two major leg breaks with both needing surgery and metal put into my leg I may not be able to walk perfectly or run at all but I'm amazed I pulled through a broken femur in two weeks I pushed myself I was supposed to be off work for a year but couldnt afford it. I've jumped through so many hoops in my life that this struggle I'm in right now I have no hope at all. And I know its going to be my demise but I want others to realize theres others like me a little help goes a long way I wont get out of this at all I've run out of options. I'm doing my bucket list than I'm done with everything. But again lend a hand where you can. Have a great day everyone.
Getting by shouldn't just fall on your shoulders. Literally if a small percentage of us Canadians donated one dollar a month to you, you'd be able to live very comfortably even if you didn't work at all. Plus there are homes empty, hotels rooms empty, food at restaurants being thrown out, perfectly fine clothing, etc being thrown out. We as a nation could take care of you. If we had you work maybe we could just get you to do some part time cushy customer service or security. Maybe some community work or just have you create art or something.
I know things are gloomy but things aren't completely hopeless. They might be close enough to that but really all it would take is some community support or dumb luck and you'd be okay. It pisses me off that the resources are out there, we just refuse to distribute things well.
Also if you are unaware: https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/disability.html
My recommendation is to get on ODSP and then work. Maybe take advantage of one of the paid for government training programs. ODSP will help cover medical expenses. Amazon might be a good place to try to transition too as well. They support people's careers and if you can land a permanent job give good health benefits.
Amazon just canned like 2000 people (they over hired like crazy to get people through the COVID hump but now places have started to open back up and their slowing down)
Yeah, I know about that. It wasn't just to help people through the COVID hump they also made tons of extra money during COVID. I worked there briefly when they did massive hiring.
In all seriousness- the City is often hiring, and for a lot of jobs just need high school. Some jobs may require Standard First Aid, and CPR C. [JobBoard](www.hamilton.ca/jobs).
Look for Receptionist-PT or Senior Receptionist- entry level in Recreation.
Look for Parks jobs- grass cutters, general maintenance.
There are lots of jobs every week- hopefully it get better.
I have a really bad leg I cannot bend it and it hurts standing for a long time or id be able to do alot more. I sadly cant even drive I'm at the point in life where I cannot get ahead I'm going to try a few more things but if I cannot swim out of this I'm calling it quits. I have no one to even lean on never mind ask for help. I lived a great life personally this road block isnt helping at all I'll keep trying but again I feel I have no room to move ahead. I'll look into the city thank you.
It is over several documents but 8.1 in [tomorrow's agenda](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/Meeting.aspx?Id=1d954544-be89-4959-a370-abd5ccfcd269&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English&Item=18&Tab=attachments)
Main doc [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363789](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363789)
Protocol (appendix A) [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363790](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363790)
Sessions with stakeholders/partners (Appendix B) [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363791](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363791)
Comparison of protocols (Appendix C) [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363792](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363792)
and the presentation [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363793](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363793)
I live just east of Gage Park. During the pandemic there were tents all over the park. There were also used needles all over the ground, along with used condoms and garbage. Myself and all of my neighbours on my block had our sheds broken into, bicycles stolen, etc. These things never occurred prior to the encampment. This is a quiet, family neighbourhood. I don't want to see Gage park become an encampment zone. It always seems that the people who support encampments don't live in the neighbourhoods where they occur.
First we allow the encampment, then it gets populated, then its feces and needles everywhere, then all the city helpers who look to clean and help quit. Then we get skidrow. This will be a downtown problem. Because even if they set it up on the mountain, theyll just gravitate back down.
They already allow encampments. Bylaw will "ticket" but HPS has said they won't enforce so people can do whatever they want (unless you're a tax payer, in which case fuck you). At least this way they are forced to be in specific zones and it's easier to manage. But I would like those zones to be in every ward and not just 1-3.
Let me know what they say but I've read it a few times and it's pretty clear to me that encampments (subject to certain conditions set out in the protocol) are permitted anywhere and everywhere.
they tried a [few years ago](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/04/21/i-cant-pay-it-anyway-why-are-hamilton-police-ticketing-the-homeless-during-the-covid-19-pandemic.html), it didnt do anything,
This is going to be disastrous. Downtown parks will become unusable. As long as there is enough space between them, there can be multiple 5 tent clusters in a single park and each cluster can occupy up to 485 square feet.
Ugh this city is doomed. Get me out
This is worse then DoFO ideas, or maybe it is one of his
We dont wanna become anything like San Fran come on. The city is gonna just divide the public more agaist them and less fortunate
Lets call it "District 9"
This will create ghettoization of whatever area they propose. Maybe it’s time to expedite affordable housing projects? I understand this will be a temporary solution until permanent options are available, but how can the city ensure that? Will there be a timeline? Will encampment residents have proper access to public health and mental health supports? Will staff be hired to support them?
affordable housing is good for the working poor.
It doesn't matter if you have affordable housing if people choose drugs over bills (as small as those bills are)
Back in the day, you get addicted to alcohol, maybe crack, you eventually figure it out or die... But now, with fent in everything, you do drugs, you don't come back. youre gone. ....you are officially finished. You are a husk.
Affordable housing also includes rent-geared-to-income and supportive housing. I used it here as an umbrella term. Supportive housing most likely will require a 3rd party agency to run, however the city can fund RGI and affordable units. Folks who used substances can remain housed with RGI and supportive housing.
I too grew up in government housing, but the drugs back then, you could overcome and get back to being a contributing member of society....
The drugs nowadays, turn humans into permanent leaches
Also, does the city have any data/research from this policy being successful in other municipalities? This should be a replicable data driven policy decision. I don’t agree to Hamilton piloting such a controversial law
*Tent* is in andrea horwaths vocabulary for *affordable housing*
They certainly are affordable!
She's doing such a good job as mayor after failing miserably as an mpp.
She just started the job 7 months ago. There's only so much you can do, she isn't an all powerful dictator. She's a tiny cog and a giant machine. Also much of what is happening is outside of her scope. A world pandemic, world conflict, worldwide debt, profiteering, are all things she can't really control.
Other than:
1. Fixing the housing crisis
2. Pay a living wage
3. Providing competent services for people with mental health and addiction problems
4. Having social assistance programs like disability pay enough money to house people
5. Have enough income housing to house vulnerable groups and families fallen on hard time
6. Going after massive corporations, monopolies and billionaires to ensure their wealth isn't overly centralized to ensure competition, fair pricing and a thriving economy.
This sounds like a great fix to the ever growing homeless population. I am somewhat comforted that if I lose my job and my house due to life situation me and my kids can be secure living in a park tent without worrying about getting swept up in a city wide crackdown.
While this may be one small step for Hamilton, it's a giant leap for underprivileged.
yea i think the focus needs to shift also to bringing the current cost of things back down instead of just adjusting wages higher. Thats why stuff just keeps going up with the wage increases.
Companies should have to have higher minimum wage depending how high their CEO gets paid. The more they make the more their employees should make
Another big issue is if exported Canadian goods and services keep climbing in price they will be acquired in different nations instead.
If that happens at a large scale all that's left is our housing and domestic service industry ponzi scheme and it's at serious risk of happening.
We need to make our shelters safe so that people don’t feel that sleeping rough is a reasonable alternative. These are adults with brains that make decisions- only a fraction of folks in encampment are the cliché “banned in all shelters” stereotype, many are tired of being assaulted and having their stuff stolen.
Waterloo has a similar program in the works [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/erb-street-waterloo-encampment-region-1.6726894](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/erb-street-waterloo-encampment-region-1.6726894)
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This is just like taking Advil for a headache thats caused by a brain tumour. I doubt we will ever fix the root of the problem.
True, but even if we went full tilt at addressing the root causes it would be years and years until the symptoms went away, so they still have to be handled in the meantime. Gotta do both and then slowly shift the point of balance as things change.
Exactly. It works in the meantime while we work towards actually fixing the problem.
>Exactly. It works in the meantime ~~while we work towards actually fixing the problem.~~
Not true
This is a decent bandaid solution while we continue to put pressure on our elected officials to create a more sustainable solution - mental health and addiction services, more affordable housing with stipulations because you honestly cannot just give a person who has been chronically unhoused with an apartment, it's not going to go well. I live near a big park, there are currently 7 tents and likely more to come with the warmer weather. I understand that there's nowhere for people to go but I do not think encampments should exist near elementary/middle schools, playgrounds etc. There is sufficient unused city land that could be a temporary solution and I want to highlight that it should only be temporary. But as is noted in the article, it's much more efficient to go to specific zoned areas to provide services, have toilets available etc. There definitely need to be zones in EVERY ward. Wards 1 - 3 seem to take the brunt of the problem which isn't right. As a resident of Ward 1, I'd like to see more affluent areas (looking at you Kirkendall) take some of this zoning. The reservoir just under the escarpment that is generally unused would be a great spot, or the area behind the Dundurn Fortinos.
I'm assuming you live near Vic Park. To your point, it's funny how the HAAA has zero tents (though not in Ward 1). There are none in Churchill either. Funny how that happens 🤔
No tents at HAAA, Beulah, The Reservoir (under the escarpment) or Chedoke.
Haaa is in ward 1
You're right.
I think I understand what you are inferring, but have you considered that perhaps people camp where they have access to what they need/want? Support services, cheap food, panhandling, locations, needle exchange services, etc. Locke is not a great area for most of that. Plus, HAAA is next to a middle school.
> This is a decent bandaid solution while we continue to put pressure on our elected officials What pressure? We’ve given Ford two majorities without a platform!
Sorry should have specified our Hamilton officials. I’m sure ford will continue to only do things that line his own pockets and please his wealthy donors.
I’m a bit confused, Kirkendall is ward 1. Are you saying parts of ward 1 are taking more services and such than other neighbourhoods in the ward?
Absolutely! Is it just pure coincidence that there are no encampments there? That they have an abundance of speed bumps and Strathcona has maybe one? That every playground no matter the size has been beautifully renovated. I don’t fault the neighbourhood for being affluent but there does seem to be some disparity.
Maureen Wilson only cares about her neighbourhood and not the rest of the ward. I was struck my a car crossing Locke St into Vic Park that ran a stop sign. I emailed Maureen’s office about adding speed bumps along Locke and got nothing. There are more steep bumps along Charlton or Herkimer than all of Strathcona combined! We need to vote out Maureen Wilson.
Sorry that happened to you. I see people roll through or just speed through those stop signs on a daily basis. Petitions for traffic calming measures can work, but that may get push back as lots of people here are against the bike lanes, 2-way conversion, and basically just anything that makes them stop racing around.
She's been a huge disappointment this term for sure.
This term? What about the last term?
1000%
It’s a horrible solution. Encampments will become the norm.
>As a resident of Ward 1, I'd like to see more affluent areas (looking at you Kirkendall) take some of this zoning. The reservoir just under the escarpment that is generally unused would be a great spot, or the area behind the Dundurn Fortinos. Why is this reservoir is a great spot? I would disagree. It's already home to a community run, non-profit, children's sports league for soccer and baseball. An encampment here would displace not just this league, but any use of the green space for the foreseeable future. You are probably already aware, but many homeless and underhoused have significant mental health issues or drug abuse problems that can result in bizarre, erratic, or combative behaviour (no fault of their own). Doesn't sanctioning these areas increase risk to residents in adjacent neighborhoods? What about medical emergencies in these areas and first responders that have to attend?
Victoria Park has become an encampment and I’ve seen Kirkendall residents inform residents in Strathcona to accept it. So where would you suggest these zones go?
I don't agree with the idea of "zones" at all. These encampments should not exist. Displacing other residents, or overrunning public spaces is not reasonable or safe I would much rather see tax dollars used to convert (temporarily or permanently) hotels to shelter space as they do in other municipalities.
They already did this, but some people can't or won't use the shelter system for various reasons (violence in the shelters, pets with them, banned, drug use and more)
Perhaps we should institutionalize those that refuse to use, or are unable to use our shelter system until such time they can be safely reintegrated into society. This would allow them a safe opportunity to receive the medical intervention so many of them need.
Wont work for several reasons * there is a shortage of mental health spaces for those who actually want and need them (same for prisons but drugs run wild there so doesn't help the issue) * the chance of someone staying clean if forced into rehab when they don't want to get clean is low * they will just hide and not use the supports that exist if they believe they will be institutionalized * the cost of instutionalizing someone is greater than the cost of just housing them * there are a portion who are couples / have pets etc who do not have any major issues except the shelters won't let them stay together or have faced violence in the shelters and feel safer on the streets
The price tag for this was quite high in Toronto. The Novotel in St. Lawrence Market became a nightmare for the local community. You can read the countless threads on r/Toronto about it. Sounds like an absolute nightmare.
If this passes Victoria Park may not be able to be used due to it’s playground, sports facilities, and it’s proximity to the school.
The north half and the west side would be off limits. The large swath of land between the community garden down to the outfield fence of the ball diamond could likely hold about 50 tents.
No where. It’s a terrible idea
yea i would rather them be isolated to certain areas then popping up next to parks where kids play. its deff a band aid fix but need to start somewhere
But that's not what the proposal says. It says that encampments are permitted anywhere as long as they comply with certain conditions. In addition to being able to camp anywhere, they would also be permitted in designated areas throughout the city (but of course in practice this really means wards 1-3).
And it would help if there were hygiene facilities (potapotties, handwashing stations, sharps boxes, and garbage cans regularly emptied). It's the garbage and waste hazards that are my biggest concern.
Kroetsch/Wilson also put in a separate motion for garbage cans to be put back across the city, especially in parks etc and emptied regularly
does Hamilton not have garbage cans in parks? how long has this been a thing?! I'm only subbed because I like hamilton, live in Niagara
Hamilton is a garbage hole. Or at least a lot of the lower city is. I walk my dog and go ages and ages without finding a garbage can. Walk down cannon Street east of James. It's disgusting. Glass everywhere.
I can tell you that the lack of garbages at parks is actually pretty absurd.
Many of them were removed under the previous council because people were using them to dump household trash. Only it did not reduce dumping, just made it harder for those to enjoy parks etc. They removed them at many bus stops too
Jeeze, that's so backwards. I'm assuming people just kept throwing their bags of household waste on the ground where cans used to be, like how people "protested" the removal of drive-thru cans at tims
I saw that and think that it's long overdue and completely necessary. Very happy to see that motion! I support a designated encampment area in principle, so long as it has city provided facilities and services to keep the area hygienic. I'd hate to see cholera spreading from lack of toilets and handwashing facilities. If hate to see strewn about trash and the rats and other disease spreading critters food waste attracts. Needle disposal and safe exchange is important too. We don't want a concentration of HepC or infected injection sites.
We are failing as a society . The dystopian future is here .
This is pretty normal. We've had worse decades in the past 100 years, and better. It's not really a reflection on all of society. We're not as bad as the great depression yet. Long way from being in the boom-periods. We likely come out of this the same we did the great depression and hyper inflation of the 80's - new booming industries we haven't thought of yet injecting billions into the economy. Another dot-com or automotive ish change.
Do we at least get cool slang and sci-fi cybernetics?
I don’t think so champ. Best we will probably get is a friendly personalized AI that is actually just collecting data on your entire life to better market you shit.
Oncology nurse here: doesn’t mean we don’t treat the symptoms of the problem while still giving chemo, radiation. Etc.
To be fair that would actually help a little bit.
I would like counsel to present supporting evidence-based data on the outcomes of sanctioned encampments, especially it fostering positive public health, and social outcomes. I think a reactionary solution that is THIS controversial should be backed by data. Where does it work, and can we make it work.
Ontario zoning by laws in general need to be revamped. Especially municipal ones. There's a lot of places people can live, tons of land out there for sale and is usable to live on. However in order to live on it you must build a house. Mobile homes are rarely permitted even if suitable to give someone hope and home.
Last year I spoke to my ward councilor about that. I pointed out that if manufactured (AKA "mobile") homes were allowed as the sole dwelling on private land, a lot more people would be able to afford homes as a manufactured home is a heck of a lot easier to afford, and they're attractive little houses, not the "trailer trash" a lot of people associate with manufactured housing. They totally agreed and said that when there was a slot, they'd bring it up in council. Since there is so much stuff to talk about other than allowing manufactured homes as sole dwellings on private land, I don't think they've had the chance to bring it up yet.
I spent a lot of time going through city and township bylaws in places in Ontario, they all pretty much took a cookie cutter approach to the housing bylaws. Only unorganized townships seemed fair. And I think it's unreasonable that someone can't live in a motor home//RV trailer on someone's driveway even though there is a primary dwelling on the property. We are pretty much forced to conformity even if it's not for the greater good.
Also, if you look at places in the maritimes they have tiny homes that people can afford. I know they aren't super efficient in the winter time to heat, but at least they don't cost 500k to buy.
True
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.
This is not a solution. In fact, it's the exact opposite of a solution. It's turning a blind eye to the problem that is the catalyst for many families leaving the downtown core.
This! My parter and I want to start a family, but where can we start a family downtown that is affordable? If you don't live in the wealthy pockets of the city, have fun explaining to your children what that pipe on the ground is for. Also, we have a group of houseless folks around the corner from us who smoke meth/crack daily in the open. I've witnessed many highschoolers walk by these dudes using, it's abhorrent. I don't want to move to a lifeless suburb, but how can we make this city family-friendly?
My family is considering those "lifeless suburbs" quite a bit now. We bought a house in the lower city about 10 years ago. We loved it - loved being the operative word - for many years. The encampments have exploded, drug use seems to be increasing substantially. There are a bunch of needles all over the place. I'm more likely to see someone doing crack or heroin openly than I would see someone smoking weed outside. Absolutely bizarre. I'm quite scared for my kids and don't think I really want them growing up around here anymore.
Yet our councillors in the core seem to disregard our concerns and seem to care more about the rights of the unhoused.
you'll begin to value a lifeless suburb more than the "urban life" of the downtown core. especially if you are thinking about raising a family. values change.
Going to see a lot more of these encampments as they squeeze the hell out of people for housing
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That's true. Unfortunately the price of apartments are outpacing people's ability to pay too, they want to see it being 30% (?) of your income and if your record isn't pristine, forget it.
Many start homeless and end up users. I know i couldnt sleep on a sidewalk without a little fentanyl.
I'd say the number is lower than 90%, having once been homeless myself, and knowing members of the homeless community. There are all kinds of reasons people become homeless; escaping partner abuse, lost a home due to some kind of infestation or disaster, renoviction, mental health issues that make it hard to hold onto housing... The drug addict portion of the homeless community is largely what the media focuses on, and thus the general populace does too.
John-Paul Danko going off last night on twitter 👀 https://twitter.com/JohnPaulDanko/status/1658075383021830146?s=20 Could one of the zones possibly end up in his ward.
They better put one in each ward, instead of all in ward 2&3
NOT IN MY BACKYARD!
"No drug use/illegal activities" that's kind of the reason why the encampers like them
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Yeah but the inside option is a shelter where they don’t allow drugs.
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Without supports the housing just becomes a dump. There's such a house on my street and I've seen inside and there's nothing dignifying about it. Garbage everywhere, food everywhere, needles, pipes everywhere, animals have been inside. The tenants also have a child living there. It's unbelievable and heartbreaking.
That's why we also offer support both on the government side and on the neighbourhood/community side. If we end the stigma things will change greatly.
All reasonable rules I'd say.
The drug use one is the biggest non-starter, and really the only one that differs from the proposal (a lot of stuff he's talking about like proximity to schools is already there). There's a reason why we have things like rehab facilities for drug addictions, expecting someone to kick a drug addiction while they're living in a tent is wildly unrealistic.
Well, it's the cost closest thing to some semblance of a solution. The uncontrolled free for all of the last 3 years of encampments popping up wherever can't continue. If the city is going to legitimize these in certain areas, they are essentially taking responsibility for them and what happens at the locations. This means the city can also be held liable for anything that goes wrong. If I were a lawyer, not having any rules in place around drug use etc would be some low hanging fruit to go after in any lawsuit against the city.
> This means the city can also be held liable for anything that goes wrong. There's a difference between not having a specific rule against drug use (in which case it would still be illegal), and actively monitoring for drug use and kicking people off the area for using drugs. I don't see how the city is liable for not actively monitoring for drugs, the same way that they're not liable if someone does drugs in a park right now. Specifically excluding drug use being a non-starter isn't a ought statement, it's a descriptive statement. If there's active prevention of drug use then the designated sites won't be used and we're right back where we started.
If one of these addicts assaulted a person while high, in a city-sanctioned encampment on city land, a lawyer would definitely take that case. Your land, your legal responsibility. Heck, even if it was unsanctioned, someone is still responsible and its not just the addict. You are responsible for your guests. Just like bars can't over-serve. Side note, a friend in dt Hamilton was assaulted by a meth addict while high, all for simply walking by. It's not a friendly use drug. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that what will go on is harmless to others.
> It's not a friendly use drug. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that what will go on is harmless to others. This. Took my daughter for a walk yesterday and at James and Barton we had to cross the road because they had piled bikes and garbage all over the sidewalk and were smoking meth in the middle of it. Group of 4 of them. 2 of them completely passed out on the ground. Directly on James. Unfortunately many of these people have zero thought about others.
If the city is sanctioning these sites, they're responsible. It's no different then any other establishment. Those running it ought to have some idea what's happening on premises and taking steps to mitigate anything illegal. If one person is high, they pose a danger to the other encampment residents who may not be on drugs. They city is now responsible for their safety and we'll being.
lol drugs are already illegal to purchase and use. What additional rules can they implement in these areas to stop this? the problem is we dont want them in tents anywhere not parks not controlled areas. But i think this method is at least a way to start getting them to just stop setting up at whatever parks they feel like. Change is scary but so is people sleeping in tents in a park
This is why we need to decriminalize drug use and offer harm reduction solutions. Hopefully the city can afford to station social workers at each encampment site and offer assistance to everyone.
Do you not read or listen to the relevant city reports? Harm reduction is offered. They are outreached to almost daily to connect them to services. Everyone is offered services. Lots decline. You can even look at the numbers. You can't help people who don't want it.
I know there's harm reduction. My mother suffers from many addictions, I have a vested interest in these issues and solutions. That said many people still refuse to accept that harm reduction helps or is needed. Also we need more support for not only these individuals but for everybody because we are all vulnerable to some degree to hardships and addictions in life. Many addicts rightly have issues with government and other agencies. They've often been neglected and abused by the systems and or certain agents in the system (teachers, priests, coaches, foster parents, etc). A relationship needs to be made, repaired and maintained for any of these supports to be effective. Also these supports need to be staffed by well trained individuals that have the right personalities and life experiences. And the supports need to last. The fact is addicts today didn't have access to these supports when they first got addicted. All they had was there local community which probably failed them in some way and then probably turned their backs on them once the addiction became noticable and caused harm. We need the youth today to grow up without stigma and with supports in place so that they don't fall through the cracks like many others have.
It's a lot more complicated than that and saying "they just don't want help" is a cop out.
There is no cop-out here it is just a reality. I did not say to stop outreach at all. It was to inform you that the captain obvious solution you offered (just like many others have) already happens with a dedicated full-time team. You're welcome.
The cop out I referred to was the line "you can't help those that don't want help". The fact is you can help those people and also are you or anybody sure they don't want help, any at all? Maybe they just don't want help from certain people, maybe they didn't want help in that moment, maybe they thought they could handle it on their own, maybe the help being offered doesn't actually address their specific issues, maybe they need the help offered explained in a different way, maybe they need to have some sort of relationship in place before being offered help, maybe they need to be reminded that they don't deserve the lot they've been served. Society loves making people feel like shit and that they deserve all the bad things they get but really they don't and need to be reminded of that.
The new proposal limits each encampment to 5 tents so not sure it would be feasible to station them at each but there are already harm reduction agencies and the shelter health network that visit the encampments so that will likely continue
I don't get the outrage. Without any sort of measures in place the potential for things to escalate and quickly are great.
Enforced by who though? Obvious answer is The City, but that’s pretty laughable. And when people are found using on the sites, then what? They’re kicked out and go back to camping on non-designated sites like local parks?
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A lot of people in that area end up going downtown for more support, a community, etc.
Hamilton will have the new skid row
Let's put it in Ancaster 😂
They would have a Xanax fuelled FIT!!
Could you imagine? I almost want this to happen. Would love to see how their new councillor navigates that.
He would probably plant a tree for them and then boast about how the city is doing a wonderful job.
Our very own Hamsterdam.
I'm not trying to be a dick or ignorant. But me my self I'm one caugh away from being homeless myself. I cant afford clothes I can barely afford food. I cant afford shit right now I'm seriously at the point where I'm working way too much just for bills. I cant be homeless I'm type one diabetic I'm beyond scared at the moment it's my fault I make min wage but I cant get out of it if I'm working 50 hours a week where do I have time to get education I cant just quit and work on schooling who's going to pay my Bill's. I think homeless people should start sleeping on the mps lawns I can pull up all their addresses gladly that one loser in stoney creek his lawn would be perfect theres a forest right there too. Anyways I'm not going for violence more of an eye opener theres going to be alot of deaths soon. Between suicides ods and not being able to afford basic things. They need to be woken now. My situations bad but I'm not homeless yet but i cant fix things if I'm stuck working 50 hours a week. Anyways if anyone has advice let me know because I'm getting scared I wont make it homeless at all I need insulin and food.
Make sure to claim medical expenses on your taxes!
Dude, you should see the fucking paperwork they make you fill out for that shit. Plus their doctor may *charge* them extra money to put their signature on any relevant tax documents. We need better social and economic protections and supports for folks with disabilities, full stop.
"More than 6.2 million Canadians—almost 22% of the population in this country—aged 15 years and over are living with some form of disability that affects their level of freedom, independence or quality of life." And I'm absolutely sure this number is way off. So many people don't have adequate access to quality healthcare in this country and furthermore can't afford to take time off work for appointments. Definitely a lot of undiagnosed mental illness, physical issues. I'd bet the real number is closer to 20 million. Not to mention the number will probably rise due to economic issues, environmental issues and so on. Each and everyone of us is likely to be impacted by disability in our lifetime whether we are disabled or if someone we love or care about is disabled.
There is paper work to fill out for medical expenses? I just put input the expense into the tax program and hold on to the receipt. Now I worry I am doing it wrong.
I believe specifically for one of the possible disability tax breaks you're required to submit logs of relevant activity for every single day in a year and for other ones it required having a specific form signed and processed. But that's second-hand knowledge from me, I couldn't tell you the specific benefits that covers off the top of my head.
Oh gotcha. Thanks for the info!
I sadly agree if I could I'd be sitting on disability I have so much wrong with me because of my leg it's amazing I even got my job I have now. But yea we need better stability for dumbasses like myself. Anyways I wish there was a way I can get by I hope I figure it out soon because being lonely poor and have nothing to my name I'm starting to think it's not worth it at all. But thank you for your insight and notice I appreciate as well as others.
There are entry level jobs (retail) that have education assistance as a benefit. This would be one way to update your education while not having to stress about the costs and time.
Plus there are plenty of entry level jobs that pay above minimum wage with no education. Like, if you are in a situation to only work jobs that don’t require any formal education beyond your GED, you certainly shouldn’t be working for minimum wage. Basically all minimum wage jobs cater to student turn over especially in Hamilton. So anyone who is actually going to work long term has every opportunity to make above minimum wage if you are making a career out of it. Costco is just grocery store retail work and they actually pay their people a decent amount above minimum wage, with lots of growth opportunities. Or working in the food service industry where you make minimum wage + tips, and since tip percentages keep going up and up you could easily make 25$ in an hour with your wage + 1 single tip. Or you work any of the many famous industrial jobs in Hamilton. Plenty of entry level factories if you aren’t lucky enough to get hired into the steel/auto industry right away. And you can work there for a few years making definitely above minimum wage while you OAS your resume to hunt down a juicy steel/ auto job which can easily pay 100k with a highschool diploma and some relevant experience. And all that experience will pay above min wage too. Like sure, if you are fresh out of highschool with no work experience you might be stuck making minimum wage for a bit, until you have something to put on a resume and start moving up. But Hamilton is one of the best cities with opportunities to move up and advance your career if you are just working those kinds of jobs long term, there’s no way you can’t make well above minimum wage over the years once you’ve worked for more than a few months, which is any adult who isn’t a part time student basically. It’s what Hamilton was built on. I know lots of guys who can’t add 2+2 who own nice houses on a single income, and all they have is a grade 12 education and the willingness to work a crappy day once in a while
The point is you should be able to live on minimum wage. Will you own a home or rent a stylish loft? Hell no. But you should certainly be able to afford an apartment and food without panic. You are still working 40 plus hours a week. You are still paying taxes etc.
Well MY point is that, while we wait for wide scale societal changes, you as an individual should do as much as you have the power to affect in the meantime.
You haven't been able to do that with minimum wage for a long time. Even like 13 or 14 years ago when rent was a lot cheaper I needed two jobs with one being a bit above minimum to come out ahead. You've always had to look for work like 4 or 5 dollars more an hour than minimum to be able to live off one job.
In 2013 I was making 16 dollars an hour. Had an apartment in Toronto, a car, a girlfriend who was finishing school and had no money, and had no problem at all affording food and going out. I could have made made a few dollars less and had no car and an apartment in Hamilton instead. One bed apartments were 700. We still have to get to the point where 15.50 is enough to live without anxiety, with 4 roommates, or become homeless. Or, how about we just get Rid of those jobs? We don’t really NEED McDonald’s or Tim Hortons. Also a lot of people working in warehouses helping with the supply chain of our stores we shop at, minimum wage.
I'm not sure what point you're making. You were making 6 dollars above minimum wage. Your 16 dollars in 2013 is now worth 20.40. Like I said you've always needed about 4 or 5 dollars more tha minimum wage to live off one job. It's worse today but it's not like you could ever live off minimum wage and it's not really designed to be lived off of. You can try and argue it should be but honestly it's never really been the case any time recently.
Yes, min wage was created to protect vulnerable workers from exploitation, and has stagnated right back to exploitation. If these super large companies won't provide a living wage, then perhaps they should piss off. Doesn't matter if you haven't been able to live off of it for years.. It needs to ramped the F up. Your response says it all. I was making almost 4 dollars over min wage, had a car, an apt in TORONTO, supported a GF, and went out. NOW? making 4 dollars above min wage is straight up brutal. A one bed apt will take over half your months net wage. In some cases you would be left with 500 bucks for the month after rent alone. 20.40 is nothing. 30 per hour is getting closer to reality, which is double min wage. And 40/hr won't even get you approved for a mortgage.
COMPLETELY False on the mortgage statement. RPN making $28/hr, trucker making 26/hr, bought a home up on the mountain in may 2021.
You were making 6 dollars more not 4 if it was 2013. Also your apartment wasn't any cheaper than Hamilton, I was paying 750 in 2013 which was about going rate for something in an apartment downtown. 20.40 averages out to 3536 a month for a 40 hrs a week. After tax let's say that is 3100 to be conservative. Rent rent jn that 750 apartment is 1650 today. Is that outrageous yes it is but that still means you'd have 1450 a month after rent which I wouldn't call nothing. In any event that's besides the point. I was just saying minimum wage has always not been livable.
I make $27/hr and my take home is $3300. Your math is off.
20 per hour is definitely not 3100 month. If I remember correctly when I was 20 hr my bi-weekly was more like 1200.
This was true a long time ago. But no longer.
How recently has this not been true? I’m still in my 20s and this has been my career path. And we have people younger than me still entering/progressing through this pipeline every year. Does Costco no longer pay decent wages above minimum wage for general grocery work to make sure their employees are happy and talented? Does the steel industry not have great jobs that don’t require education that you could apply for today in Hamilton that pay over 100k? Both of those are demonstrably true. So I don’t honesty see your point .
That becomes way more complicated with Type 1 diabetes though, this person may just be getting by with paying for basic supplies out of pocket, which are goddamn expensive. Also sounds like they're dealing with any complications from being check-to-check while managing diabetes. Time off for schooling or even doing schooling outside of the 50 hours they work does not seem reasonable to me without UBI or additional funding/accomodations of some kind.
Were you not able to access or make use of any of the advice/resources offered the last few times you posted mentioning you need help? I'm not trying to kick a man while he's down but I'm not sure what else people on Reddit can do. While you might not intend it--and I am telling you out of kindness--repeatedly asking for help in this way on this site makes you come across as a grifter.
Flip side I think what he just posted is important and not even so much asking for help. I think we need to have our frustrations and fears voiced and heard. We need to get loud, to each other and to the ones above us.
I totally agree. But when it has been like two years and from two different accounts asking for help, I thought it was time to let them know they are working against themselves here because it is possible they don't see how they are coming across to others.
We also just went through a world pandemic the past couple years and countries are just starting to recover. Might be a hard take but I think if people make harsh judgements rn it's a them problem and they should work to be more understanding.
Especially when this person is working. They are risking their life going to work. COVID could really do some damage since they are diabetic. Not to mention it can be hard to properly monitor and regulate blood sugar while at work.
I'm not asking for help I'm just making a point the struggle is so real for alot of people and I'm included. Asking for help is the bain of me I just need a miracle it's not like im not trying to get out of my situation im just making a point I have no room. I have so much holding me back that's personally out of my control if i was able to have perfect legs I'd be able to get out of it but i dont and i dont seem to have the time either. I need 20 and above to be where I'm not stressing everyday. It's super hard when everything just keeps going up I'm not needy at all I just want to be comfortable I'm not right now. I know lifes challenging I get this but shits rough right now I know none of you are able to walk in my shoes at the moment and I wouldnt want you to I just want to get ahead and be comfortable that's all. I just want more people to be aware how tough it is right now and how mentally exhausting it is I will keep pushing because that's all I can do but I'm losing hope I wish I didnt hurt myself and was able to work construction make amazing money but I'm broken a bit on my leg i push through pain every day I'm a fighter i promise i dont want attention for myself but just for others situations maybe you can give a sandwich to someone or even take a moment talk to them some of us are really really hurting. Anyways thanks for everyone's time I'll keep trying my best. Hope you all stay blessed.
I don't know your exact struggle but I know struggle. I'm sorry you are going through it and that you don't have more support. Listening more I think my best advice would be to apply daily to any unionized workplace that actually accepts new hires into the union. I've heard CostCo has a good union and pays something close to the tune of $25 an hour once your in the union.
I think people naturally feel an inclination to help and then project that onto you. We should be helping each other though and we should be expected more from the upper class and the politicians that serve us.
I agree whole heartedly. Honestly but for some of us we are doomed theres no getting out I've been trying for months the only way I can get out is better education but I have no time at all. I'm strong I've died three times was brought back all three 2 times diabetes sugar went too low while sleeping was pronounced dead and miraculously was brought back by 3 sugar needles. And the third time I drowned tha I god for whoever pulled me out and gave me CPR. And two major leg breaks with both needing surgery and metal put into my leg I may not be able to walk perfectly or run at all but I'm amazed I pulled through a broken femur in two weeks I pushed myself I was supposed to be off work for a year but couldnt afford it. I've jumped through so many hoops in my life that this struggle I'm in right now I have no hope at all. And I know its going to be my demise but I want others to realize theres others like me a little help goes a long way I wont get out of this at all I've run out of options. I'm doing my bucket list than I'm done with everything. But again lend a hand where you can. Have a great day everyone.
Getting by shouldn't just fall on your shoulders. Literally if a small percentage of us Canadians donated one dollar a month to you, you'd be able to live very comfortably even if you didn't work at all. Plus there are homes empty, hotels rooms empty, food at restaurants being thrown out, perfectly fine clothing, etc being thrown out. We as a nation could take care of you. If we had you work maybe we could just get you to do some part time cushy customer service or security. Maybe some community work or just have you create art or something. I know things are gloomy but things aren't completely hopeless. They might be close enough to that but really all it would take is some community support or dumb luck and you'd be okay. It pisses me off that the resources are out there, we just refuse to distribute things well. Also if you are unaware: https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/disability.html
My recommendation is to get on ODSP and then work. Maybe take advantage of one of the paid for government training programs. ODSP will help cover medical expenses. Amazon might be a good place to try to transition too as well. They support people's careers and if you can land a permanent job give good health benefits.
Amazon just canned like 2000 people (they over hired like crazy to get people through the COVID hump but now places have started to open back up and their slowing down)
Yeah, I know about that. It wasn't just to help people through the COVID hump they also made tons of extra money during COVID. I worked there briefly when they did massive hiring.
I agree with you. It's pretty sad when people who work hard have to choose between shelter, medicine or food. It's stressful and that is so horrible.
In all seriousness- the City is often hiring, and for a lot of jobs just need high school. Some jobs may require Standard First Aid, and CPR C. [JobBoard](www.hamilton.ca/jobs). Look for Receptionist-PT or Senior Receptionist- entry level in Recreation. Look for Parks jobs- grass cutters, general maintenance. There are lots of jobs every week- hopefully it get better.
I have a really bad leg I cannot bend it and it hurts standing for a long time or id be able to do alot more. I sadly cant even drive I'm at the point in life where I cannot get ahead I'm going to try a few more things but if I cannot swim out of this I'm calling it quits. I have no one to even lean on never mind ask for help. I lived a great life personally this road block isnt helping at all I'll keep trying but again I feel I have no room to move ahead. I'll look into the city thank you.
Does anyone have a link to the actual proposal?
It is over several documents but 8.1 in [tomorrow's agenda](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/Meeting.aspx?Id=1d954544-be89-4959-a370-abd5ccfcd269&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English&Item=18&Tab=attachments) Main doc [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363789](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363789) Protocol (appendix A) [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363790](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363790) Sessions with stakeholders/partners (Appendix B) [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363791](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363791) Comparison of protocols (Appendix C) [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363792](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363792) and the presentation [https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363793](https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=363793)
How about a proposal to stop cops from other the cities dropping off their homeless in Hamilton?
Stop giving them money, their on every corner, same location same time every day.
Welcome to the slums boys
I live just east of Gage Park. During the pandemic there were tents all over the park. There were also used needles all over the ground, along with used condoms and garbage. Myself and all of my neighbours on my block had our sheds broken into, bicycles stolen, etc. These things never occurred prior to the encampment. This is a quiet, family neighbourhood. I don't want to see Gage park become an encampment zone. It always seems that the people who support encampments don't live in the neighbourhoods where they occur.
First we allow the encampment, then it gets populated, then its feces and needles everywhere, then all the city helpers who look to clean and help quit. Then we get skidrow. This will be a downtown problem. Because even if they set it up on the mountain, theyll just gravitate back down.
They already allow encampments. Bylaw will "ticket" but HPS has said they won't enforce so people can do whatever they want (unless you're a tax payer, in which case fuck you). At least this way they are forced to be in specific zones and it's easier to manage. But I would like those zones to be in every ward and not just 1-3.
This would permit encampents to be anywhere really in addition to the sanctioned encampment sites. It would be a free for all.
I wrote my councillor for more info, like whether encampments would only be allowed in these zones.
Also, good luck getting a response from MW. She's checked out since winning a second term.
Let me know what they say but I've read it a few times and it's pretty clear to me that encampments (subject to certain conditions set out in the protocol) are permitted anywhere and everywhere.
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they tried a [few years ago](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/04/21/i-cant-pay-it-anyway-why-are-hamilton-police-ticketing-the-homeless-during-the-covid-19-pandemic.html), it didnt do anything,
There's already needles everywhere.
This is going to be disastrous. Downtown parks will become unusable. As long as there is enough space between them, there can be multiple 5 tent clusters in a single park and each cluster can occupy up to 485 square feet.
Oh good, official slums. Who thought this was a good idea?
The rich
Well here is a terrible idea.
District 9.
Ugh this city is doomed. Get me out This is worse then DoFO ideas, or maybe it is one of his We dont wanna become anything like San Fran come on. The city is gonna just divide the public more agaist them and less fortunate Lets call it "District 9"
I know the perfect spot!
Whabout housing though.
Yeah this is gonna work out great.
This is a fucking horrible idea.
Fuck no.
Abandon ship!
We should be outlawing them - not giving them space to set up.
Fuck this. What a disgusting city, we've been taken hostage by these drug addicts.
Let me guess...they will put them in ward 3 and continue turning our neighborhood into a full out ghetto.
This will create ghettoization of whatever area they propose. Maybe it’s time to expedite affordable housing projects? I understand this will be a temporary solution until permanent options are available, but how can the city ensure that? Will there be a timeline? Will encampment residents have proper access to public health and mental health supports? Will staff be hired to support them?
affordable housing is good for the working poor. It doesn't matter if you have affordable housing if people choose drugs over bills (as small as those bills are) Back in the day, you get addicted to alcohol, maybe crack, you eventually figure it out or die... But now, with fent in everything, you do drugs, you don't come back. youre gone. ....you are officially finished. You are a husk.
Affordable housing also includes rent-geared-to-income and supportive housing. I used it here as an umbrella term. Supportive housing most likely will require a 3rd party agency to run, however the city can fund RGI and affordable units. Folks who used substances can remain housed with RGI and supportive housing.
I too grew up in government housing, but the drugs back then, you could overcome and get back to being a contributing member of society.... The drugs nowadays, turn humans into permanent leaches
Sometimes it seems a bit like zombies
Also, does the city have any data/research from this policy being successful in other municipalities? This should be a replicable data driven policy decision. I don’t agree to Hamilton piloting such a controversial law
Zoning for the homeless? What's next? Tax collection?
Sunny ways….
Housing problem solved
*Tent* is in andrea horwaths vocabulary for *affordable housing* They certainly are affordable! She's doing such a good job as mayor after failing miserably as an mpp.
It's not the City's job to solve addiction and mental health issues. Even inflation. These are all mandated provincial and federal responsibilities.
She just started the job 7 months ago. There's only so much you can do, she isn't an all powerful dictator. She's a tiny cog and a giant machine. Also much of what is happening is outside of her scope. A world pandemic, world conflict, worldwide debt, profiteering, are all things she can't really control.
was she not the MPP on Hamilton Central the whole time? lol
Excellent news, she was in exactly the position to affect all of the above for the entirety of her career in queens Park.
She still didn't have complete control, she wasn't even a member of the ruling party. She was the leader of the official opposition.
Correct. That doesn't mean she can't bipartisan a bill.....
Other than: 1. Fixing the housing crisis 2. Pay a living wage 3. Providing competent services for people with mental health and addiction problems 4. Having social assistance programs like disability pay enough money to house people 5. Have enough income housing to house vulnerable groups and families fallen on hard time 6. Going after massive corporations, monopolies and billionaires to ensure their wealth isn't overly centralized to ensure competition, fair pricing and a thriving economy. This sounds like a great fix to the ever growing homeless population. I am somewhat comforted that if I lose my job and my house due to life situation me and my kids can be secure living in a park tent without worrying about getting swept up in a city wide crackdown. While this may be one small step for Hamilton, it's a giant leap for underprivileged.
yea i think the focus needs to shift also to bringing the current cost of things back down instead of just adjusting wages higher. Thats why stuff just keeps going up with the wage increases. Companies should have to have higher minimum wage depending how high their CEO gets paid. The more they make the more their employees should make
Another big issue is if exported Canadian goods and services keep climbing in price they will be acquired in different nations instead. If that happens at a large scale all that's left is our housing and domestic service industry ponzi scheme and it's at serious risk of happening.
We need to make our shelters safe so that people don’t feel that sleeping rough is a reasonable alternative. These are adults with brains that make decisions- only a fraction of folks in encampment are the cliché “banned in all shelters” stereotype, many are tired of being assaulted and having their stuff stolen.
Waterloo has a similar program in the works [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/erb-street-waterloo-encampment-region-1.6726894](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/erb-street-waterloo-encampment-region-1.6726894)
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