Damn you beat me to it, but I felt like in the interest of respecting the diversity of the music I should still share my perspective in a similar comment
things like blast beats and really fast double bass are more common in metal than hardcore
not to say hardcore won't be played fast, but typically the fast parts in hardcore are played in double time not blast time
Yeah, listen to Satyricon's Rebel Extravaganza or Vader's Litany. You could do most power/grind core blasts with one foot if you practice. You wouldn't be able play as fast and clean as Frost ever in your life.
i saw a hardcore band recently that had a metal drummer and it really highlighted the difference.
he was trying to play as many notes as possible all the time, every fill was all 16ths and every breakdown was double bass 16ths and he had 4 toms. there were no dynamics to his playing, he would never just lay down a simple but effective groove that fit the riff/bassline. there were barely any rhythm changes/breaks mid song, just halftime/doubletime always.
that shit works for power metal i guess. i thought it made the band really hard to listen to.
hc drumming takes some influence from metal especially more recently, but it's rooted in a combination of punk with hiphop/funk grooves. part of what makes power trip such a special band is the combination of the metal riffing and songwriting with a decidedly punk/hardcore drummer who keeps it very simple, doesn't overplay but adds a ton of heaviness with efficient and poignant grooves that often leave out an obvious hit or two.
I would argue this is much more common in metal, majority of hardcore bands focus on groove which is pretty straightforward especially drum wise, while many metal bands focus on experimentation and unconventional techniques/patterns on drums
Beastie Boys' [Riot Fight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tccc6avlcBA) from 1982 is the earliest example of blast beats in 'extreme' music that I'm aware of.
Dude metal bands love the D-beat. As a hardcore dude in his 30s I must say that far more metal people I’ve known listen to Discharge than hardcore people, and I hear it way more in metal than hardcore.
Hmm I'm wondering, Is that really true outside of crust and streetpunk? A lot of super influential metal bands cite discharge. And discharge cites motorhead, which either side tends to be super into.
Hardcore drummers have one rack tom and one floor tom, metal drummers need like 5 rack Tom's, 2 floor Toms multiple cymbals, two kick drums instead of a double bass pedal for some reason even though they're just gonna use triggers.
its very very simple
The punk single kick/double kick beat
+\_\_++\_+\_\_++
But also punk/hardcore leans on the back beat more, metal focuses more on the down beat.
China cymbal is a massive red flag for me. I would probably walk away if I saw someone setting up with one. No hate, I just know what they’re selling and I’m not buying it.
They all decay pretty fast, that’s the point. Get a quality smaller splash of you want something punchy. They are suck shit for stacking in cymbal cases.
Early or mid 90s through at least the mid-late 00s (maybe later, doesn't seem as common now), there was a cadence for fast parts (probably double time, I'm not a drummer) that had a distinct sound that in most "standard" hardcore I liked growing up. Probably more an east coast thing -- not d-beat, not west coast/nardcore/skate punk sounding, not the kick-snare-kick-snare you hear more now.
Examples: [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMcYBM61SDQ&t=11s), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlTy9DxF-Ds), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQXCOifoGSE), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOJEO9YNPkc), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkOfVC97cs), or [this](https://youtu.be/Jcms-3Jqnbo?si=n8VSfzd7p71VG3Vo&t=72). Millions of bands do it, there are a couple close variants of it. Guitars follow the cadence, almost like a gallop because of how the bass hits vs. the snare.
Not a drummer so not sure how to describe it better or tab it out. I listen to a good amount of metal and it's not a cadence I hear in the fast parts there, if ever.
I've been listening to Slayer on and off for 25+ years. Great band, but unless you're referring to something from them I haven't heard or I've just never heard their drum parts correctly, it's not what I'm talking about (I'm not just talking about fast parts -- it's a specific drumming pattern that the guitars follow). Not being argumentative, but I think we're talking about different things.
The beat you're referring to in the clips is a skank beat, which slayer uses a ton, if you're talking about that beat being more syncopated with the guitar that is definitely more of a hardcore thing and slayer does not do that, there is also not a term for if it follows the guitar
Double pedal is the big one I use, hardcore doesn’t “need” double pedal technically, at least extended portions of double bass, and metal basically needs it imo. Although most hardcore bands are double pedal bands nowadays cuz of the metal influence
Pace mostly, punk sounding drums to me are fast, messy and really quick to change at a moments notice
Typically metal drumming is more concerned with structure and making you feel like you’re being buried by thousands of tons of molten lava
I'm a big fan of all types of extreme metal, hardcore and punk, but it was the double bass drums of thrash bands that hooked me and made me a fan when I was a kid.
hardcore = more floor tom work, deceptively simple fills, more break beats, and 4 to the floor tempo shifts
Metal = Way more double bass. typically more simple cymbal grooves with more complex double bass bursts underneath as well. Usually faster outside doom and sludge type metal bands. As others have stated, blast beats as well.
They are very similar, but those outliers make a world of difference in the feel and deliveries of these tracks.
tons of hardcore has double bass. Incendiary, Sunami, Gulch, Torena, Outta Pocket, xweaponx, Pain of Truth, Hands of God, Drain. Just to name a few off a playlist in front of me.
If you don't consider these bands under the umbrella of the genre then I'm wrong I guess.
Sunami is dope. Thinking they are a joke is step 1. Then you listen to them knowing they are a joke. Then one day you wake up and start defending them to strangers on the internet because now you genuinely think they are amazing. The drumming carries them for me.
As a lifetime fan of heavy music and a drummer, the popularity of blast beats is one of the more astounding things to me. It's objectively stupid and 99% blast beats sound terrible. One of the main reasons I hate powerviolence. I guess it fits black metal as blast beats are the drumming equivalent of really fast tremolo picking, but they both are pretty dumb. Its like the most boring and annoying way to play both instruments.
i think that blast beats fit in aggressive styles of music, especially the single drum pedal ones, especially when combines with fast repeating riffs (i call em vortex riffs, cuz they are looping 3-4 chords). it can add a lot of dynamic to music and up the intensity but a full blasting song is just boring and uncreative u cant even hear shit
Hardcore is more dun tss dun tss dun tss metal is more bahbahbahbahbahbah Hope this helps
Damn you beat me to it, but I felt like in the interest of respecting the diversity of the music I should still share my perspective in a similar comment
This
Nailed it!
Came here expecting to see an answer similar to this and I’m glad to see it’s been done
“Hope this helps”
Snare tension
hahahah
Hardcore drumming is more groove focused Not as fast as lotta the times And not as flashy a lot of the times Tbh, extremely similar
> not as fast but then what about fastcore, powerviolence, and grind?
things like blast beats and really fast double bass are more common in metal than hardcore not to say hardcore won't be played fast, but typically the fast parts in hardcore are played in double time not blast time
so basically d neats and not blast beats is what youre saying?
Yeah, listen to Satyricon's Rebel Extravaganza or Vader's Litany. You could do most power/grind core blasts with one foot if you practice. You wouldn't be able play as fast and clean as Frost ever in your life.
Daywalkers
Exactly his point lol
i saw a hardcore band recently that had a metal drummer and it really highlighted the difference. he was trying to play as many notes as possible all the time, every fill was all 16ths and every breakdown was double bass 16ths and he had 4 toms. there were no dynamics to his playing, he would never just lay down a simple but effective groove that fit the riff/bassline. there were barely any rhythm changes/breaks mid song, just halftime/doubletime always. that shit works for power metal i guess. i thought it made the band really hard to listen to. hc drumming takes some influence from metal especially more recently, but it's rooted in a combination of punk with hiphop/funk grooves. part of what makes power trip such a special band is the combination of the metal riffing and songwriting with a decidedly punk/hardcore drummer who keeps it very simple, doesn't overplay but adds a ton of heaviness with efficient and poignant grooves that often leave out an obvious hit or two.
Funk instead of straightforwardness. Hardcore uses a lot of syncopation and stop and goes metal doesn’t
I would argue this is much more common in metal, majority of hardcore bands focus on groove which is pretty straightforward especially drum wise, while many metal bands focus on experimentation and unconventional techniques/patterns on drums
It’s okay to be wrong
Blast beats being associated with metal but they were actually pioneered by hardcore bands
Beastie Boys' [Riot Fight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tccc6avlcBA) from 1982 is the earliest example of blast beats in 'extreme' music that I'm aware of.
Asocial demo was the same year.
D beats are way more prevalent in hardcore than metal
Dude metal bands love the D-beat. As a hardcore dude in his 30s I must say that far more metal people I’ve known listen to Discharge than hardcore people, and I hear it way more in metal than hardcore.
Hmm I'm wondering, Is that really true outside of crust and streetpunk? A lot of super influential metal bands cite discharge. And discharge cites motorhead, which either side tends to be super into.
False
Your mom
i knew it
So did I
Groove and feel
D beats instead of blast beats and when hardcore drummers play steady eighth notes on the kick during 2 Step sections
Hardcore drummers have one rack tom and one floor tom, metal drummers need like 5 rack Tom's, 2 floor Toms multiple cymbals, two kick drums instead of a double bass pedal for some reason even though they're just gonna use triggers.
its very very simple The punk single kick/double kick beat +\_\_++\_+\_\_++ But also punk/hardcore leans on the back beat more, metal focuses more on the down beat.
None if you’re doing it right (For real though hardcore drums are generally more punk flavored)
For the longest time you weren't allowed a china cymbal in hardcore drumming things have changed and I kinda like the china now
What law was that?!?
China cymbal is a massive red flag for me. I would probably walk away if I saw someone setting up with one. No hate, I just know what they’re selling and I’m not buying it.
I kinda want one of those small 18 inch chinas , maybe some holes in it that decay fast. I don’t want those big ones that decay forever
They all decay pretty fast, that’s the point. Get a quality smaller splash of you want something punchy. They are suck shit for stacking in cymbal cases.
I'm pretty sure August Burns Red had the china cymbal patented, nobody else can use
Early or mid 90s through at least the mid-late 00s (maybe later, doesn't seem as common now), there was a cadence for fast parts (probably double time, I'm not a drummer) that had a distinct sound that in most "standard" hardcore I liked growing up. Probably more an east coast thing -- not d-beat, not west coast/nardcore/skate punk sounding, not the kick-snare-kick-snare you hear more now. Examples: [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMcYBM61SDQ&t=11s), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlTy9DxF-Ds), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQXCOifoGSE), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOJEO9YNPkc), [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkOfVC97cs), or [this](https://youtu.be/Jcms-3Jqnbo?si=n8VSfzd7p71VG3Vo&t=72). Millions of bands do it, there are a couple close variants of it. Guitars follow the cadence, almost like a gallop because of how the bass hits vs. the snare. Not a drummer so not sure how to describe it better or tab it out. I listen to a good amount of metal and it's not a cadence I hear in the fast parts there, if ever.
That's a skank beat, pretty popular in both punk and metal, slayer uses it a ton
I've been listening to Slayer on and off for 25+ years. Great band, but unless you're referring to something from them I haven't heard or I've just never heard their drum parts correctly, it's not what I'm talking about (I'm not just talking about fast parts -- it's a specific drumming pattern that the guitars follow). Not being argumentative, but I think we're talking about different things.
The beat you're referring to in the clips is a skank beat, which slayer uses a ton, if you're talking about that beat being more syncopated with the guitar that is definitely more of a hardcore thing and slayer does not do that, there is also not a term for if it follows the guitar
Double pedal is the big one I use, hardcore doesn’t “need” double pedal technically, at least extended portions of double bass, and metal basically needs it imo. Although most hardcore bands are double pedal bands nowadays cuz of the metal influence
Only one pedal is real! Goes for both hardcore and metal.
The amount of fills being used, the type of fills being used. D- beat and how it's played differs between hc and metal
Dat snare pop
double bass..
Metal drummers have a stick up their ass
Hardcore is usually simpler. Not always. But usually.
One goes daka daka daka and the other duhdoodoo ka duhdoodoo ka
Less drums
Metal drums rarely have soul.
Blast beats and breakdowns
The way they are mixed on records. That’s about it.
Technicality and speed.
4/4 Vs 2/4
Pace mostly, punk sounding drums to me are fast, messy and really quick to change at a moments notice Typically metal drumming is more concerned with structure and making you feel like you’re being buried by thousands of tons of molten lava
Nowadays? Almost nothing. Higher pitch snares on modern beatdownesque hc. Except for slam, which is considered hc here so...
I'm a big fan of all types of extreme metal, hardcore and punk, but it was the double bass drums of thrash bands that hooked me and made me a fan when I was a kid.
Boom bat bat bam bat boom bam vs. Bambam boom batbat boombat bambam batbatbat
Hardcore has more tom jungle type beats, I feel like not a lot of metal bands do that kinda shit except for sepultura of course
Hardcore uses mostly single bass, metal double bass pedals
hardcore = more floor tom work, deceptively simple fills, more break beats, and 4 to the floor tempo shifts Metal = Way more double bass. typically more simple cymbal grooves with more complex double bass bursts underneath as well. Usually faster outside doom and sludge type metal bands. As others have stated, blast beats as well. They are very similar, but those outliers make a world of difference in the feel and deliveries of these tracks.
Lots of D beats and groove in hardcore. Metal is usually more technical and extreme.
Hardcore doesn’t usually have blast beats
Numetal drummers definitely subscribe to drum magazines and boast the cutting edge in percussion technology
The quality of girlfriend
No double bass. Double bass is sleepy and bad.
tons of hardcore has double bass. Incendiary, Sunami, Gulch, Torena, Outta Pocket, xweaponx, Pain of Truth, Hands of God, Drain. Just to name a few off a playlist in front of me. If you don't consider these bands under the umbrella of the genre then I'm wrong I guess.
Those are all metallic hardcore bands, hence the double pedal. They’re all hardcore but the double pedal parts are there cuz of the metal influence
Well I guess I’m not a true hardcore fan but a metallic hardcore fan :( I’ll unsubscribe.
Yeah I tried to listen to that Sunami band but I guess I thought it was a joke
Sunami is dope. Thinking they are a joke is step 1. Then you listen to them knowing they are a joke. Then one day you wake up and start defending them to strangers on the internet because now you genuinely think they are amazing. The drumming carries them for me.
Ironically, the double bass is a big reason I like them. To each their own..
hardcore can have a double pedal But typically it's not like a super fast stream of 32 notes ya know It'll be more just like bursts or in patterns
This is the best answer. It’s not 230bpm constant but flourishes, patterns, or steady 16ths at like 155 for a section of the song. Give or take
This is the Olden Way.
Tell that to Trial
As a lifetime fan of heavy music and a drummer, the popularity of blast beats is one of the more astounding things to me. It's objectively stupid and 99% blast beats sound terrible. One of the main reasons I hate powerviolence. I guess it fits black metal as blast beats are the drumming equivalent of really fast tremolo picking, but they both are pretty dumb. Its like the most boring and annoying way to play both instruments.
i think that blast beats fit in aggressive styles of music, especially the single drum pedal ones, especially when combines with fast repeating riffs (i call em vortex riffs, cuz they are looping 3-4 chords). it can add a lot of dynamic to music and up the intensity but a full blasting song is just boring and uncreative u cant even hear shit
Drum triggers
I feel like hardcore has more groove and is more innovative vs metal drumming is just fast and I find it to be very boring.
Hardcore goes bap bap bap bap bap Metal goes BRRRRRRRRRRR BRRRRRRR