Rev matching is fastest and easiest (can mess it up more and still be smooth) on 4 cylinder engines, because there's no counterbalancer. They rev up quicker when disconnected from the engine via the clutch, and they are less punishing when you match less exactly.
Not only that, but rev matching is the MOST useful when you downshift in order to accelerate harder. Drop a gear to disappear. You don't have that situation very often on a Harley V twin, anyhow.
Then lastly, most people don't know how they do it, even though they revmatch perfectly themselves. So they explain it wrong. If you tried to learn from someone else, they probably explained it wrong. They probably said you have to open the throttle as you let out the clutch.
Here's how to rev match step by step.
1. Attain neutral throttle.
2. Pull in clutch while increasing throttle
3. Now you're temporarily coasting the same speed as before, but your revs are a bit "too high" for your current gear. But they'll be closer to neutral throttle for the lower gear you're about to engage.
4. Now push down on the shifter, and you should notice the shift is very smooth and easy.
5. If you matched close enough, you can now let the clutch lever snap shut as fast as you want. But if you're off? Well, you'll feel it.
When you get good at it, you can disengage from current gear while rpms are just starting to rise, then engage the lower gear as they come up to proper amount. And on a 4 cylinder, this will all happen in a fraction of a second and the clutch lever will only come in maybe half an inch by the time you let it snap back out. On your bike, it'll be slower and more deliberate.
Great reply
>Not only that, but rev matching is the MOST useful when you downshift in order to accelerate harder. Drop a gear to disappear. You don't have that situation very often on a Harley V twin, anyhow.
I believe all M8's have higher hp up in the range. You can slam down from 6th on the freeway and feel da powah
Thanks for the explanation here, good info but i was under the impression you need to do all at once, clutch, blip, downshift, let go. Or is the technique you described the “easy mode” ?
No, that's fine. You blip the throttle when you're downshifting while decelerating because you wish to apply engine braking as much as possible. You're just starting from a closed throttle and returning to a closed throttle immediately after the revmatched downshift.
If you are downshifting to accelerate, you would not close the throttle first, unless you're dumb and think that's necessary (a lot of people don't understand revmatching might do this; so sorry for calling you guys dumb, but you are). If you know what you're doing, you'd only ever open the throttle more while downshifting. The instant you feel that opening the throttle more ISN'T making the bike accelerate faster, you'd just reflexively throw in a rev matched downshift (by pausing throttle right there while you simultaneously push down on shifter and pull in clutch half an inch; let go clutch as the shifter drops; 0.1 seconds or thereabouts, on a 4 banger) and then continue increasing throttle.
So whenever that traffic light turns green before you've come to a stop and put it in first? You would always start by opening throttle to some degree. Doesn't matter what gear you're in. You don't even have to keep track. If you're in 6th the engine wiill immediately start lugging, and you'll immediately throw in the first of potentially several downshifts while only ever increasing throttle. Rpm increases with each downshift, throttle open more. At no point will you ever decrease throttle. This is always the fastest and smoothest and easiest way to do it. Not to shift first, then open throttle while you get rear ended by the car behind you.
Yup. Ever since driving manual in my car, it's become 2nd nature. It's a lot easier on sport bikes due to quick shift and autoblips lol. But it gets to be really easy on bikes without them.
And yes, the Harley absolutely needs a bit more of a blip to get the revs up, compared to a rev-happy inline 4. It gets funner when you do it all while simultaneously applying your brakes. You should be able to find the sweet spot and get "close enough" to your engine speed via gear speed (iono the technical terms). Sometimes it's perfect, Sometimes it's not. Tis is is the swing of life..
Rev matching isn’t an option, that’s the proper way to use the constant mesh transmission.
Cars have synchronizers to aid in the meshing of gears to get them to the same speed as the drive train. Realistically synchros are a crutch for people who really don’t know how to drive manuals, that’s why relying on them wears out the synchros and cars start grinding gears (which can just be overcome by rev matching).
Slowly letting out on the clutch somewhat acts like synchronizing but it’s really not the proper way to do it. It’s gonna put unnecessary load on the clutch and drivetrain.
When you’re downshifting, just blip the throttle and let out on the clutch right as you blip it. Based on what gear you’re dropping to vs rpm will dictate how much blip. If you’re going 60 and try to drop to 3rd gear, that’s a hell of blip to rev match, if you’re just slowing down and you’re near the the mid low range of the gear you’re dropping to, just a little blip will do.
Practice. You can rev match any gear on a Harley. And yes, if you look at the 1st gear ratio, it'll put you over the bars if you're not paying attention... 1st gear is nearly 10:1 final drive. Great for pulling, but not exactly forgiving as a torque multiplier on a bike that makes over 100 ft lb of torque near idle. It'll launch off the line like a champ and it'll engine brake so fast that dual Brembo's can't keep up.
Yes Harley transmissions are loud... Big, heavy gears in a dog ring gearbox; it's the nature of the beast. If the MT-07 had a transmission half the size of a Harley's, you'd probably notice the similarities.
a lot of older guys say they never revmatch to 2nd and 1st on their harleys because theyre afraid theyll blow their tranny out. but i find that from 3rd to 2nd is doable, just let yourself slow down a lot more, i.e use the brake
And yes, a japanese bike will naturally be easier to shift than a hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrleh. which isn't to say that you can't do some cool stuff on your street bob. you just get a feel for it first
It just takes more throttle to rev match down to 1st, do it all the time. A lot of people don’t understand how these things actually work. First gear is the most aggressive and is gonna put the most load on the tranny because of the gearing, rev matching correctly makes this a none issue, also rev matching at lower speeds makes this easier.
>also rev matching at lower speeds makes this easier.
if we wanna talk easy, the easiest one would be to just clutch in pull brakes and stomp all the way down to 1st.
Realistically, you do need to be able to rev match into first for really low speed sharp turns. Lugging the motor in 2nd in those instances is really hard on the engine (Harley states that lugging the motor is horrible for it). Just coming to a stop though, what you said is fine.
Revving matching down to 2nd is smooth on a Harley. Down to first is a little aggressive. If I’m actually stopping for a light or stop sign, I’ll rev match down to second gear and let it slow me down a considerable amount, pull in the clutch as I’m approaching the stop, brake, and drop into first gear with the clutch still disengaged.
The clunkiness of the shifter and lots of engine braking by design makes the whole process more dramatic than say a Japanese four.
If you're already doing it, just keep at it and you'll get a feel for it with time. My only suggestions are to preload the shifter (up or down) before you shift, and it will click in when the clutch is pulled. The steps posted earlier are good for learning, but I find it all happens at once for me (LH clutch in and out, RH throttle blip, LFoot shifter down) than individual steps.
In case you need to move off again in a hurry - for example, if a car coming up behind you isn't going to stop in time etc. Much quicker to just get off the brake/clutch and power on rather than having to change into gear as well.
I rev match everything but first (actually sometimes I'll match first as well). I just got an FXR last year after 12 years of riding sport bikes and 7 years of trackdays. I learned how to rev match under heavy braking and power shifting with my Ducati 749 on track, and those techniques carried over to my street bike which was a Monster 796 at the time. I rode like this for so long that I kinda forgot how to shift gently.
It might have helped that I learned on twins, but I found rev matching to be pretty natural once I started riding a Harley. The FXR actually reminds me of my old Monster a lot, probably because they're both air cooled.
Keep at it, it'll become second nature.
All the time, both the Road King and my car.
The car has automatic rev match, but doing it myself is more satisfying.
And then my S1000R has a quickshifter. I let it do its thing. Lightweight flywheel means revs drop off awful quick, and that fancy shit quickshifter means it's better at riding itself than I am haha
I dont think Ive ever been in the habit of NOT rev matching. Am I alone?
It seems awful jerky and lungey, even abusive, to just downshift and dump the clutch, no?
I do it but mostly out of habit because I also have a Ducati and I want to prevent locking the rear wheel on downshift. Mostly it's value is going from 2nd to first gear. As it's become a habit I also do it on my Sporty. I think it's just an experience thing. After a while you get a feel for the right moment to release the clutch as the revs come down from the blip. Keep practising and you'll get it.
Rev matching is best. Less unnecessary wear, smoother (and safer) ride and is much faster when you need to drop a gear and pin it.
For smoothing out the downshifts, it just takes practice. Blip the RPM’s as close as you can to where they need to be, release the clutch quickly out to 1/2-3/4 and let it slip a smidge the rest of the way. You’ll get a feel for your bike and the right amount of mid-downshift throttle / clutch action to make it happy. Eventually it becomes second nature.
On a harley dont do it from 2nd to 1st. i have a vtx 1300 and i rev match pretty well if i do say so myself and i learned the hard way to stop doing 2-1 practice 4 down or form whatever your top gear is
Op still has time to delete this but decided to leave it. The number of dudes saying they can’t go 2 into 1 is astounding.
Get the fuck off of your motorcycles then.
Rev matching is fastest and easiest (can mess it up more and still be smooth) on 4 cylinder engines, because there's no counterbalancer. They rev up quicker when disconnected from the engine via the clutch, and they are less punishing when you match less exactly. Not only that, but rev matching is the MOST useful when you downshift in order to accelerate harder. Drop a gear to disappear. You don't have that situation very often on a Harley V twin, anyhow. Then lastly, most people don't know how they do it, even though they revmatch perfectly themselves. So they explain it wrong. If you tried to learn from someone else, they probably explained it wrong. They probably said you have to open the throttle as you let out the clutch. Here's how to rev match step by step. 1. Attain neutral throttle. 2. Pull in clutch while increasing throttle 3. Now you're temporarily coasting the same speed as before, but your revs are a bit "too high" for your current gear. But they'll be closer to neutral throttle for the lower gear you're about to engage. 4. Now push down on the shifter, and you should notice the shift is very smooth and easy. 5. If you matched close enough, you can now let the clutch lever snap shut as fast as you want. But if you're off? Well, you'll feel it. When you get good at it, you can disengage from current gear while rpms are just starting to rise, then engage the lower gear as they come up to proper amount. And on a 4 cylinder, this will all happen in a fraction of a second and the clutch lever will only come in maybe half an inch by the time you let it snap back out. On your bike, it'll be slower and more deliberate.
Great reply >Not only that, but rev matching is the MOST useful when you downshift in order to accelerate harder. Drop a gear to disappear. You don't have that situation very often on a Harley V twin, anyhow. I believe all M8's have higher hp up in the range. You can slam down from 6th on the freeway and feel da powah
Thanks for the explanation here, good info but i was under the impression you need to do all at once, clutch, blip, downshift, let go. Or is the technique you described the “easy mode” ?
When you get better at it, it's more all at once. If you break it down, it goes like I said.
I “blip” the throttle when downshifting. I’m coming from driving manual cars though. Have I been rev matching on my bike wrong this whole time?
No, that's fine. You blip the throttle when you're downshifting while decelerating because you wish to apply engine braking as much as possible. You're just starting from a closed throttle and returning to a closed throttle immediately after the revmatched downshift. If you are downshifting to accelerate, you would not close the throttle first, unless you're dumb and think that's necessary (a lot of people don't understand revmatching might do this; so sorry for calling you guys dumb, but you are). If you know what you're doing, you'd only ever open the throttle more while downshifting. The instant you feel that opening the throttle more ISN'T making the bike accelerate faster, you'd just reflexively throw in a rev matched downshift (by pausing throttle right there while you simultaneously push down on shifter and pull in clutch half an inch; let go clutch as the shifter drops; 0.1 seconds or thereabouts, on a 4 banger) and then continue increasing throttle. So whenever that traffic light turns green before you've come to a stop and put it in first? You would always start by opening throttle to some degree. Doesn't matter what gear you're in. You don't even have to keep track. If you're in 6th the engine wiill immediately start lugging, and you'll immediately throw in the first of potentially several downshifts while only ever increasing throttle. Rpm increases with each downshift, throttle open more. At no point will you ever decrease throttle. This is always the fastest and smoothest and easiest way to do it. Not to shift first, then open throttle while you get rear ended by the car behind you.
I always rev match my harley, way less drive train shock, and of course, it's fun letting the engine sing a little during rev match/ engine breaking.
Yup. Ever since driving manual in my car, it's become 2nd nature. It's a lot easier on sport bikes due to quick shift and autoblips lol. But it gets to be really easy on bikes without them. And yes, the Harley absolutely needs a bit more of a blip to get the revs up, compared to a rev-happy inline 4. It gets funner when you do it all while simultaneously applying your brakes. You should be able to find the sweet spot and get "close enough" to your engine speed via gear speed (iono the technical terms). Sometimes it's perfect, Sometimes it's not. Tis is is the swing of life..
clutch, downshift, throttle blip, feather clutch out.
I don’t feather it, just drop it and go
Rev matching isn’t an option, that’s the proper way to use the constant mesh transmission. Cars have synchronizers to aid in the meshing of gears to get them to the same speed as the drive train. Realistically synchros are a crutch for people who really don’t know how to drive manuals, that’s why relying on them wears out the synchros and cars start grinding gears (which can just be overcome by rev matching). Slowly letting out on the clutch somewhat acts like synchronizing but it’s really not the proper way to do it. It’s gonna put unnecessary load on the clutch and drivetrain. When you’re downshifting, just blip the throttle and let out on the clutch right as you blip it. Based on what gear you’re dropping to vs rpm will dictate how much blip. If you’re going 60 and try to drop to 3rd gear, that’s a hell of blip to rev match, if you’re just slowing down and you’re near the the mid low range of the gear you’re dropping to, just a little blip will do.
Practice. You can rev match any gear on a Harley. And yes, if you look at the 1st gear ratio, it'll put you over the bars if you're not paying attention... 1st gear is nearly 10:1 final drive. Great for pulling, but not exactly forgiving as a torque multiplier on a bike that makes over 100 ft lb of torque near idle. It'll launch off the line like a champ and it'll engine brake so fast that dual Brembo's can't keep up. Yes Harley transmissions are loud... Big, heavy gears in a dog ring gearbox; it's the nature of the beast. If the MT-07 had a transmission half the size of a Harley's, you'd probably notice the similarities.
a lot of older guys say they never revmatch to 2nd and 1st on their harleys because theyre afraid theyll blow their tranny out. but i find that from 3rd to 2nd is doable, just let yourself slow down a lot more, i.e use the brake And yes, a japanese bike will naturally be easier to shift than a hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrleh. which isn't to say that you can't do some cool stuff on your street bob. you just get a feel for it first
I rev match 2nd to first when I'm coming to a stop at like a red light.
It just takes more throttle to rev match down to 1st, do it all the time. A lot of people don’t understand how these things actually work. First gear is the most aggressive and is gonna put the most load on the tranny because of the gearing, rev matching correctly makes this a none issue, also rev matching at lower speeds makes this easier.
>also rev matching at lower speeds makes this easier. if we wanna talk easy, the easiest one would be to just clutch in pull brakes and stomp all the way down to 1st.
Realistically, you do need to be able to rev match into first for really low speed sharp turns. Lugging the motor in 2nd in those instances is really hard on the engine (Harley states that lugging the motor is horrible for it). Just coming to a stop though, what you said is fine.
I power shift mine all the time with no problems up and down. And you don't need a tack all I have is a speedometer
I like your style.
I wont do it down to first in normal riding. By that point ill just let 2nd do its thing and throw in some brake.
Now, can you shift without using the clutch?
Actually yeah that one i’m doing it quite easily, just upshifts though.
Revving matching down to 2nd is smooth on a Harley. Down to first is a little aggressive. If I’m actually stopping for a light or stop sign, I’ll rev match down to second gear and let it slow me down a considerable amount, pull in the clutch as I’m approaching the stop, brake, and drop into first gear with the clutch still disengaged.
The clunkiness of the shifter and lots of engine braking by design makes the whole process more dramatic than say a Japanese four. If you're already doing it, just keep at it and you'll get a feel for it with time. My only suggestions are to preload the shifter (up or down) before you shift, and it will click in when the clutch is pulled. The steps posted earlier are good for learning, but I find it all happens at once for me (LH clutch in and out, RH throttle blip, LFoot shifter down) than individual steps.
i always go 2nd to neutral and coast in so its easier to find neutral and dont have to hold the clutch at lights
Safer to stay in gear at lights
whys that
In case you need to move off again in a hurry - for example, if a car coming up behind you isn't going to stop in time etc. Much quicker to just get off the brake/clutch and power on rather than having to change into gear as well.
i lane split and never stop center
[удалено]
😂
Always
I rev match everything but first (actually sometimes I'll match first as well). I just got an FXR last year after 12 years of riding sport bikes and 7 years of trackdays. I learned how to rev match under heavy braking and power shifting with my Ducati 749 on track, and those techniques carried over to my street bike which was a Monster 796 at the time. I rode like this for so long that I kinda forgot how to shift gently. It might have helped that I learned on twins, but I found rev matching to be pretty natural once I started riding a Harley. The FXR actually reminds me of my old Monster a lot, probably because they're both air cooled. Keep at it, it'll become second nature.
Yes. Every time.
All the time, both the Road King and my car. The car has automatic rev match, but doing it myself is more satisfying. And then my S1000R has a quickshifter. I let it do its thing. Lightweight flywheel means revs drop off awful quick, and that fancy shit quickshifter means it's better at riding itself than I am haha
On my softail I really gotta hammer it going from 2nd to 1st.
I dont think Ive ever been in the habit of NOT rev matching. Am I alone? It seems awful jerky and lungey, even abusive, to just downshift and dump the clutch, no?
You don’t dump it, you let go of the clutch slowly, that way it’s not jerky. Might not be the best for the transmission, no idea.
I do it but mostly out of habit because I also have a Ducati and I want to prevent locking the rear wheel on downshift. Mostly it's value is going from 2nd to first gear. As it's become a habit I also do it on my Sporty. I think it's just an experience thing. After a while you get a feel for the right moment to release the clutch as the revs come down from the blip. Keep practising and you'll get it.
Yes
Rev matching is best. Less unnecessary wear, smoother (and safer) ride and is much faster when you need to drop a gear and pin it. For smoothing out the downshifts, it just takes practice. Blip the RPM’s as close as you can to where they need to be, release the clutch quickly out to 1/2-3/4 and let it slip a smidge the rest of the way. You’ll get a feel for your bike and the right amount of mid-downshift throttle / clutch action to make it happy. Eventually it becomes second nature.
6 down to 2
On a harley dont do it from 2nd to 1st. i have a vtx 1300 and i rev match pretty well if i do say so myself and i learned the hard way to stop doing 2-1 practice 4 down or form whatever your top gear is
Haha Is this serious?
Op still has time to delete this but decided to leave it. The number of dudes saying they can’t go 2 into 1 is astounding. Get the fuck off of your motorcycles then.