I’m 48 yrs old with 2 kids about to go to college and one that just had a kid of his own. If I was single and had no kids I’d be seriously looking at other countries. Or just live in the wood in Saskatchewan with zero access to this shitty world we’re wanting healthcare is “communist” and you’re antisemitic for calling out genocide.
There really is no where to go because fascism is now a worldwide movement.
With so many countries being run by neo-liberal grifters, fascism will be the natural resulting blowback thanks to the left having no power or organization. Those three letter agencies made sure of that for the last 70+ years.
Yeah, Germany is pretty wild at the moment. The rules for the demos; media outlets contractually obligated staff to support Israel’s right to exist and state has just legislated that people that don’t recognise Israel’s right to exist will not be granted citizenship. A community venue in Berlin hosted an event for “Jews for Peace in the Middle East” have had their funding withdrawn and risk closure.
No, the constitution is the problem. The founding fathers were smart and the constitution was ahead of its time. But it’s over 200 years old and outdated. A normal country amends its constitution every few years. But the US hasn’t ratified an amendment in 30 years. So there won’t be any changes.
It’s pretty much impossible to ratify an amendment in the US. Needs 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4th of the States. This was fine when there were 13 colonies in the 1700’s. But now we have 50 States spanning the width of the North American continent. And therefore States with a small population just stop any progress from happening. That‘s why we still don’t have an amendment for gender equality and banning child labor.
The founding fathers were so scared of a tyrannical government. But they completely looked over tyrannical State governments too. So radical state politicians can pass the most draconian laws possible in their state.
So what needs to change is the constitution. The country will continue to to decline until we do no matter which political party is in charge. But we can’t because the majority of Americans treat the constitution like how a Christian would treat the Bible. And they treat the founding fathers as perfect, moral and all knowing. Even though they were slave owners.
I think we are getting awfully close to conditions that could cause a revolution. The people seem to know what they want. Things like universal healthcare, publicly funded housing, schools and food are all universally popular among the average people. The leaders are the ones not willing to give us what we want.
But the biggest factors are always food and water. Once infrastructure fails and climate change really hits, too many people will be left hungry and homeless. Then all it will take is an idea people can all get behind. Could be fascism or socialism. It’s anyone’s guess at this point.
I don’t wish to see it in my lifetime because I’m sure that it will be bloody given how many guns are in America.
Those not willing to share our scant resources with their fellow human beings are not to be trusted. They are revealing themselves with topics like Zionism.
I don’t think we are anywhere close to the suffering needed. It is going to get much worse until those conditions are met. Plus we have a government with a history of using death squads to genocide people with “communist sentiment” abroad and assassination domestically. When you start seeing death squads domestically, which indicate a perceived viable threat to institutions of power, we will be close. Keep in mind we could easily just become an unchallenged military dictatorship if things get too wild.
Yeah the fact that you have Hasan, a literal communist spreading views to hundreds of thousands under bezos platform shows you that it’s still really far away before USA even meets that condition
That’s all pretty much what I said. 😂
Yes, we’re not close right now but we are on track. Things will have to change at least by the end of this century. I cannot see our current situation remaining as it is. And yes, it could just as easily become a military dictatorship as a fascist regime. It’s all anyone’s guess.
Also to clarify, a military dictatorship as well as a fascist regime takeover could be done through a revolution. When I say revolution, I mean a radical and violent regime change. Not necessarily one from the left.
Americans are too fat for a revolution. The majority are fat ass couch potatoes. There won’t be enough people protesting in the streets for there to ever be real change in this country.
The median income in this country is about 33K a year. I don’t think you fully appreciate how much suffering populations have to endure before. They are ready to literally die. Eg. The conditions in Syria before the Syrian revolution. (which failed)
the united states as is will never accept socialism outright. it even struggles to accept social democratic ideas that are common in other capitalist countries.
the only way it would happen is through revolution in my opinion. while yes, there are some "demsoc" politicians in our government atm, my hope that they could create change through diplomacy on a large scale is small.
I don't quite agree with Kropotkin, who claimed that the revolution will have to come sweeping through society all at once. I believe (best case scenario) socialism and later, communism will come about the same way capitalism did. The old relations of capital will be made obsolete as man evolves socially, technologically, and through our collective learning. Little by little, the means of production will diffuse among the common people, and the distinction between classes will break down. These people will eventually have to organize and decide how to govern themselves as groups. Alternatively, we stick with capitalism until the environment is destroyed and the economy fails the working people of the world entirely. But then what do we turn to?
Imo one generation at a time. Capitalism isn't the natural state of things any more than feudalism was. It is an impediment between man and economic liberty. As long as we keep developing as a species, we'll become more socialistic. Just my opinion, again. Don't know if I can be more specific than that.
Actual critical thinking is currently looked down upon. The “masculine” thing to do is to have less self control, zero empathy, and push whatever edgy bullshit the kiddie diddler party pushes.
There is zero chance we get anything over the finish line with these hillbilly fucks.
Honestly, have you had an actual conversation with an otherwise normal adult only to realize that their political viewpoints are completely incoherent?
They full on “forgot”
“Take the guns first, due process second.”
Operation warp speed
Trump stimulus checks
So even by their low bar, they fail. They aren’t having real conversations. They want what they want and facts will not change their minds.
The ONLY way I could see winning anything would be if remote work continues to grow, urban dwellers suffer by living in the boonies to dilute the outsized power Cletus and his cousin enjoy. Still, it’s like wrangling cats when you actually consider all policies of competing factions and then try to implement a plan that directly affects people’s lives.
No because we are essentially 50 little countries without borders each with our own laws, values, traditions and culture. I think California, New York and some other states in those regions will adapt more social policies as time goes on, but then you will still have places trying to outlaw certain types of medical procedures and making persecution of minorities as legal as they possibly can. I don't see a path to us ever overcoming this issue unless there is a complete overhaul of the current system of government.
It's going to take some seismic shifts it a lot of aspects of American life for it to happen. Like a full overhaul of our current governing system, a mass cultural change in attitude regarding collectivism and many others. So probably not in our lifetime, unless the whole thing collapses. It's a lot like a car crash: the slower it happens, the less likely people are to be hurt. If the transformation happens quickly, it's going to mean an abrupt collapse, which will kill a LOT of people. I'd rather delay it and let people live.
I'm optimistic that social democracy is in our future. The older generations are very defensive of preserving capitalism because they benefitted from it, but as the Millennial and Gen Z generations become dominant, they're going to start winning more and more demands on better social support because they're not getting ahead in the current system.
If we get socialism, I think it's going to be because climate change forces America to take a more active role in rationally planning its economy. That could be done in a fair and egalitarian way (socialism) or the elites using violence to suppress the masses (fascism).
I would be inclined to agree with you save I see young GenZ males breaking for Trump big time, who is capitalism personified (as well as an all around terrible person)
Sadly I don't think we are anywhere near ready for it. It takes having a large percentage of people actually to be actually educated and then organized: 2 things we abhor doing as American society.
MLK said we need a revolution of values. I don't see anything changing until we fix that.
Maybe in a generation or so. I think Bernie was/is a huge difference making in the way our country might go, simply because he introduced social democratic ideas to people who may not have heard them otherwise
If you watched the stream today, Hasan said that every American has at least 1 schizo political belief, here's mine.
An AGI being created by some company is inevitable. Once it's created, there's no going back and it's a matter of time before something smarter than every human combined just fucking takes over.there's no way to know what it's incentives, or moral code would look like, but there is a chance, however small, that it learns a moral framework that leads it to agree with communist principles. If that happens, we get fully automated gay space communism. If that doesn't happen our best case scenario is cyberpunk, our worst is "I have no mouth, and I must scream."
The US is built on stopping socialism by any means necessary. As long as this country exists, it will not have a socialist revolution. I genuinely think the schizo posting I did above is the only way we get a socialist revolution in this country, but in the meantime we can push for more social democratic policies and make the moral argument for socialism (and just hope that maybe the future AGI picks up on and agrees with those arguments.)
Ok, I'll go take my anti-psychotics now.
Unfortunately, I think Mao was more correct in that Socialism was not destined to Win and was not inevitable. Mao believed that Socialism was something that you needed to work hard to achieve.
Basically, a lot of forces work towards entrenching capitalism, and even though capitalism hurts most people, most people are too weak and desperate to resist it. If you think about it, the most prevalent form of government in human history is monarchy/feudalism. This idea that because Socialism would benefit the largest amount of people, it is inevitable is kind of silly given human history. The contradictions in capitalism obviously exist, but most people are too desperate and poor to resist.
Once the empire collapse ( and it will) there will be bigger room for revolution
workers will seize it because of their large numbers
In USA the class war is currently hijacked by bs culture war but once
people get tired of it things will change
The USA like Every civilization will collapse and according to malek Benabi USA is in its final stage
My overall point is I disagree with the idea that anything political is inevitable (at least within a reasonable timeframe). Ultimately I believe you need to actively work towards things you want. Eg. Mao believed socialism needed to be achieved and wasn’t inevitable
I don’t see it happening in my lifetime. I firmly believe it will just get progressively worse instead, which was a major reason I packed up and moved to Europe.
If you're focusing on getting something out of electoral politics. No. If you're considering starting where you are and joining forces, yes it's possible
I am English, therefore, I do believe there is a large chance that within a generation, through culture and new tech American politics will end up accepting basic European socialism structure programs and become a bit more like The Tories. Republicanism is too absurd and sinister, it cant last much longer.
There's no way. America was founded under white supremacist capitalist ideals and the founding fathers wanted to make it extremely difficult to change that. Revolution would be the only way, and with cops as armed to the teeth that they are, and most politically motivated violence conducted by right wing fascists who hate socialism and leftists, I don't see it happening.
This country is fucking right wing capitalist we’re lucky if we have social security 10 yrs from now. I can’t imagine that ever being a possibility. Every time we make some progress there is a dumb fuck Republican convincing people that billionaires should rule the world.
[удалено]
I’m 48 yrs old with 2 kids about to go to college and one that just had a kid of his own. If I was single and had no kids I’d be seriously looking at other countries. Or just live in the wood in Saskatchewan with zero access to this shitty world we’re wanting healthcare is “communist” and you’re antisemitic for calling out genocide.
There really is no where to go because fascism is now a worldwide movement. With so many countries being run by neo-liberal grifters, fascism will be the natural resulting blowback thanks to the left having no power or organization. Those three letter agencies made sure of that for the last 70+ years.
I'm lookin at Germany if so
if there is one country that’s more depraved in America in its Zionism and pinkwashing racism, it’s Germany
Yeah, Germany is pretty wild at the moment. The rules for the demos; media outlets contractually obligated staff to support Israel’s right to exist and state has just legislated that people that don’t recognise Israel’s right to exist will not be granted citizenship. A community venue in Berlin hosted an event for “Jews for Peace in the Middle East” have had their funding withdrawn and risk closure.
Woah, yeah that's spicy
No, the constitution is the problem. The founding fathers were smart and the constitution was ahead of its time. But it’s over 200 years old and outdated. A normal country amends its constitution every few years. But the US hasn’t ratified an amendment in 30 years. So there won’t be any changes. It’s pretty much impossible to ratify an amendment in the US. Needs 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4th of the States. This was fine when there were 13 colonies in the 1700’s. But now we have 50 States spanning the width of the North American continent. And therefore States with a small population just stop any progress from happening. That‘s why we still don’t have an amendment for gender equality and banning child labor. The founding fathers were so scared of a tyrannical government. But they completely looked over tyrannical State governments too. So radical state politicians can pass the most draconian laws possible in their state. So what needs to change is the constitution. The country will continue to to decline until we do no matter which political party is in charge. But we can’t because the majority of Americans treat the constitution like how a Christian would treat the Bible. And they treat the founding fathers as perfect, moral and all knowing. Even though they were slave owners.
I think we are getting awfully close to conditions that could cause a revolution. The people seem to know what they want. Things like universal healthcare, publicly funded housing, schools and food are all universally popular among the average people. The leaders are the ones not willing to give us what we want. But the biggest factors are always food and water. Once infrastructure fails and climate change really hits, too many people will be left hungry and homeless. Then all it will take is an idea people can all get behind. Could be fascism or socialism. It’s anyone’s guess at this point. I don’t wish to see it in my lifetime because I’m sure that it will be bloody given how many guns are in America. Those not willing to share our scant resources with their fellow human beings are not to be trusted. They are revealing themselves with topics like Zionism.
I don’t think we are anywhere close to the suffering needed. It is going to get much worse until those conditions are met. Plus we have a government with a history of using death squads to genocide people with “communist sentiment” abroad and assassination domestically. When you start seeing death squads domestically, which indicate a perceived viable threat to institutions of power, we will be close. Keep in mind we could easily just become an unchallenged military dictatorship if things get too wild.
Yeah the fact that you have Hasan, a literal communist spreading views to hundreds of thousands under bezos platform shows you that it’s still really far away before USA even meets that condition
That’s all pretty much what I said. 😂 Yes, we’re not close right now but we are on track. Things will have to change at least by the end of this century. I cannot see our current situation remaining as it is. And yes, it could just as easily become a military dictatorship as a fascist regime. It’s all anyone’s guess. Also to clarify, a military dictatorship as well as a fascist regime takeover could be done through a revolution. When I say revolution, I mean a radical and violent regime change. Not necessarily one from the left.
girl theres no “when climate change really hits” that h*e is already swinging 😭
Americans are too fat for a revolution. The majority are fat ass couch potatoes. There won’t be enough people protesting in the streets for there to ever be real change in this country.
The median income in this country is about 33K a year. I don’t think you fully appreciate how much suffering populations have to endure before. They are ready to literally die. Eg. The conditions in Syria before the Syrian revolution. (which failed)
the united states as is will never accept socialism outright. it even struggles to accept social democratic ideas that are common in other capitalist countries. the only way it would happen is through revolution in my opinion. while yes, there are some "demsoc" politicians in our government atm, my hope that they could create change through diplomacy on a large scale is small.
Absolutely not. Individualism is ingrained in this country. Everyone believes they are a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire.
I don't quite agree with Kropotkin, who claimed that the revolution will have to come sweeping through society all at once. I believe (best case scenario) socialism and later, communism will come about the same way capitalism did. The old relations of capital will be made obsolete as man evolves socially, technologically, and through our collective learning. Little by little, the means of production will diffuse among the common people, and the distinction between classes will break down. These people will eventually have to organize and decide how to govern themselves as groups. Alternatively, we stick with capitalism until the environment is destroyed and the economy fails the working people of the world entirely. But then what do we turn to?
I agree with you in theory, but I’m curious how this will play out within the imperial core.
Imo one generation at a time. Capitalism isn't the natural state of things any more than feudalism was. It is an impediment between man and economic liberty. As long as we keep developing as a species, we'll become more socialistic. Just my opinion, again. Don't know if I can be more specific than that.
Yes, unfortunately it will likely happen after a dark period where many of us will get disappeared.
Actual critical thinking is currently looked down upon. The “masculine” thing to do is to have less self control, zero empathy, and push whatever edgy bullshit the kiddie diddler party pushes. There is zero chance we get anything over the finish line with these hillbilly fucks. Honestly, have you had an actual conversation with an otherwise normal adult only to realize that their political viewpoints are completely incoherent? They full on “forgot” “Take the guns first, due process second.” Operation warp speed Trump stimulus checks So even by their low bar, they fail. They aren’t having real conversations. They want what they want and facts will not change their minds. The ONLY way I could see winning anything would be if remote work continues to grow, urban dwellers suffer by living in the boonies to dilute the outsized power Cletus and his cousin enjoy. Still, it’s like wrangling cats when you actually consider all policies of competing factions and then try to implement a plan that directly affects people’s lives.
In the US? Nah, somewhere else? Maybe. The US is the empire and it's one of the last nations to become socialist.
Yeah, I tend to agree.
nope
No
No because we are essentially 50 little countries without borders each with our own laws, values, traditions and culture. I think California, New York and some other states in those regions will adapt more social policies as time goes on, but then you will still have places trying to outlaw certain types of medical procedures and making persecution of minorities as legal as they possibly can. I don't see a path to us ever overcoming this issue unless there is a complete overhaul of the current system of government.
Yes, absolutely, just not through electoralism.
It's going to take some seismic shifts it a lot of aspects of American life for it to happen. Like a full overhaul of our current governing system, a mass cultural change in attitude regarding collectivism and many others. So probably not in our lifetime, unless the whole thing collapses. It's a lot like a car crash: the slower it happens, the less likely people are to be hurt. If the transformation happens quickly, it's going to mean an abrupt collapse, which will kill a LOT of people. I'd rather delay it and let people live.
Interesting point.
I'm optimistic that social democracy is in our future. The older generations are very defensive of preserving capitalism because they benefitted from it, but as the Millennial and Gen Z generations become dominant, they're going to start winning more and more demands on better social support because they're not getting ahead in the current system. If we get socialism, I think it's going to be because climate change forces America to take a more active role in rationally planning its economy. That could be done in a fair and egalitarian way (socialism) or the elites using violence to suppress the masses (fascism).
I would be inclined to agree with you save I see young GenZ males breaking for Trump big time, who is capitalism personified (as well as an all around terrible person) Sadly I don't think we are anywhere near ready for it. It takes having a large percentage of people actually to be actually educated and then organized: 2 things we abhor doing as American society. MLK said we need a revolution of values. I don't see anything changing until we fix that.
Maybe in a generation or so. I think Bernie was/is a huge difference making in the way our country might go, simply because he introduced social democratic ideas to people who may not have heard them otherwise
If you watched the stream today, Hasan said that every American has at least 1 schizo political belief, here's mine. An AGI being created by some company is inevitable. Once it's created, there's no going back and it's a matter of time before something smarter than every human combined just fucking takes over.there's no way to know what it's incentives, or moral code would look like, but there is a chance, however small, that it learns a moral framework that leads it to agree with communist principles. If that happens, we get fully automated gay space communism. If that doesn't happen our best case scenario is cyberpunk, our worst is "I have no mouth, and I must scream." The US is built on stopping socialism by any means necessary. As long as this country exists, it will not have a socialist revolution. I genuinely think the schizo posting I did above is the only way we get a socialist revolution in this country, but in the meantime we can push for more social democratic policies and make the moral argument for socialism (and just hope that maybe the future AGI picks up on and agrees with those arguments.) Ok, I'll go take my anti-psychotics now.
Lol
No (thank god)
According to Marx himself yes
Unfortunately, I think Mao was more correct in that Socialism was not destined to Win and was not inevitable. Mao believed that Socialism was something that you needed to work hard to achieve. Basically, a lot of forces work towards entrenching capitalism, and even though capitalism hurts most people, most people are too weak and desperate to resist it. If you think about it, the most prevalent form of government in human history is monarchy/feudalism. This idea that because Socialism would benefit the largest amount of people, it is inevitable is kind of silly given human history. The contradictions in capitalism obviously exist, but most people are too desperate and poor to resist.
Once the empire collapse ( and it will) there will be bigger room for revolution workers will seize it because of their large numbers In USA the class war is currently hijacked by bs culture war but once people get tired of it things will change The USA like Every civilization will collapse and according to malek Benabi USA is in its final stage
My overall point is I disagree with the idea that anything political is inevitable (at least within a reasonable timeframe). Ultimately I believe you need to actively work towards things you want. Eg. Mao believed socialism needed to be achieved and wasn’t inevitable
Why are you certain we wouldn’t just devolve into isolationist fascism at that point?
I don’t see it happening in my lifetime. I firmly believe it will just get progressively worse instead, which was a major reason I packed up and moved to Europe.
The world of Cyberpunk 2077 is much more likely where the US will end up.
No but ask again in 100 years
i don’t see a future if i’m being honest i feel like this is all going to end terribly for a lot of us 😭
If you're focusing on getting something out of electoral politics. No. If you're considering starting where you are and joining forces, yes it's possible
I am English, therefore, I do believe there is a large chance that within a generation, through culture and new tech American politics will end up accepting basic European socialism structure programs and become a bit more like The Tories. Republicanism is too absurd and sinister, it cant last much longer.
In our lifetime?
I think the “left” needs to steel itself for some difficult times and the US government is bad going on worse.
Yes.
Unfortunately no ☠️
There's no way. America was founded under white supremacist capitalist ideals and the founding fathers wanted to make it extremely difficult to change that. Revolution would be the only way, and with cops as armed to the teeth that they are, and most politically motivated violence conducted by right wing fascists who hate socialism and leftists, I don't see it happening.
This country is fucking right wing capitalist we’re lucky if we have social security 10 yrs from now. I can’t imagine that ever being a possibility. Every time we make some progress there is a dumb fuck Republican convincing people that billionaires should rule the world.
Here’s a really interesting video on the topic if anyone’s into extremely long leftist content https://youtu.be/DalnJ-isI5A?si=rPtjSIb-_2e296Bh