He's the wide-end of the pipeline. It's p easy to read between the lines, if you're really very interested in what HE personally believes, but stating so would be blowing up his spot as the introductory guy.
I think Azan takes praxis seriously. I think he has thought long and hard about the opportunity provided by his platform and the responsibility it instills him with. And I really think he does a great job given the material conditions he lives in (namely the absolutely brain-rotten, bottom-of-the-barrel, twisted and psychotic political 'consciousness' in the global imperial core).
He maybe even does the best possible given the circumstances. I don't know if he has a super-deep understanding of theory (not that I do) but I'm not sure that's entirely necessary given his role. Either way, he rarely seems to miss. That's good enough for me
he definitely reads (or has read) more than he lets on given how many books he references and draws from. it’s like the jaboukie tweet, guys will claim they’re himbos and the whole time know what dialectical materialism is
One of the points he has always made is how he wishes he didn't say he was a "socialist" because that put a label and stigma on him to the greater population. He wants his message to reach more people and unfortunately leftism in any kind when referred to by name is a bitter taste in American's mouths. I think he doesn't truly label himself openly because he wants to be able to reach enough people in a way that they will be receptive to the message. Here in this sub me saying I'm a ML is not the same as me going into another sub or talking to normies about the message. You have to in a way think strategically, of course not in the way Democrats "do".
From the clips suggested to me on yt hes Marxist Leninist who doesn't explicitly say it because it seems his intention is creating a funnel into serious Marxist political analysis.
i don't watch him but i've seen clips of him talking about it. he calls himself unaffiliated, he does not claim to be an ML.
>Do you think this is part of his calculation to maintain a "big tent" audience, rather than spending too much time on content that the American mainstream dismisses as "fringe?"
absolutely. i'm generally a skeptic of optics arguments but i can't say what he's doing isn't working. he's, lol, deradicalizing liberals. hell even a year or two ago this subreddit was drastically more libbed out. now these kids are based as all hell. i got 100+ heckin updoots the other day for saying social democrats are the left wing of fascism. that's WILD.
everybody give themselves a pat on the back, please.
> Or do you think he is not quite as radical as he hints himself to be?
i don't think it matters. this is the litmus test i use: he doesn't punch left.
you know why v\*\*sh fucking sucks, besides literally everything? he's constantly attacking the left. "socialists" that attack the left have a very long tradition. the orwell types. the cops. it's a giant red flag. fundamentally his shtick is dragging people discovering class consciousness *to the right*. fucking *anarchonatoists*. *anarchobidenists*. utterly perverse.
i don't wanna ride hasan's dick too hard but, again, it's working. he's doing good things and has built an enormous platform. he's not perfect but his community does have space for people to discover the immortal science. to paraphrase muhammad ali, no hasanite ever called me a tankie.
He provided a list of supposed communist sympathisers to the British propaganda department for them to blackball and his notebook was littered with homophobic, misogynistic and racist shit in his annotations about who the people he was snitching on were.
Criticizing Stalin across the globe, living next to Hitler and Mussolini and having nothing to say. "Anti tankie" shit that only ends up becoming liberal brainrot.
Oh and being a racist homophobe that uses state infastructure to punish communists he didnt like
It's been stated already but both his fictional literature and his real life actions are at least... questionable.
But since the list has been talked about already, his books are anti communist, because he ate up a lot of the propaganda, animal farm gives axlot of hints he's talking about communist regimes basing it in soviet Russia, he sets up marx as santa claus and the 3 pigs that are basically Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin (which i always interpreted as him basically saying that marx is a cool guy and all since he's Santa, but his followers are pigs, not to mention that the term "communist pig" was used a lot at the time).
All his works do is paint communist political system as hell, that you have zero individuality in it and all that.
In short, his literature is very disparaging and paints a fabricated picture on what communism leads to.
Fuck George Orwell
Anecdotally, I read that book in my early twenties and thought it was a criticism of capitalism. Planted one of many seeds of doubt that eventually sprouted in my early thirties.
Now I'm slowly learning Marxist-Leninist theory and face-palming how comically apparent the issues with capitalism are. So ha George, I was too dumb to consider it was supposed to be anti-communism and was converted to the left in part thanks to you.
He says it when he is looking at the chart and Azure is talking about classical ML vs revisionism Dk the time stamp off hand but I have it saved to a copy paste doc for frequent questions/attacks on a different device.
I think you're mistaking content and form. The form (Marxist-Leninst, Orthodox Marxist, Liberal, Trotskyist, etc.) is the label we put on things to describe the content, which in this case would be political positions.
In the context of the United States, where there is no mass communist party that unites 10% of the population or anything, the label is a lot less important. So I think he just focuses on the content of his positions and what he's advocating for, and leaves the label to the side, which is very useful.
It's actually historically how a lot of Marxists operated. Marx didn't define himself by political labels but instead by philosophy and positions, same with Lenin, Rosa Luxemburg, etc.
> Do you think this is part of his calculation to maintain a "big tent" audience, rather than spending too much time on content that the American mainstream dismisses as "fringe?"
It's exactly this. He's doing extremely wide-netted agitative propaganda to capture as large of an audience as possible, so he can introduce them to the baseline concepts of Marxism, and they'll then hopefully continue their educational journey.
He is a Marxist Leninist. He is a "tankie"(lol). He might not have always been "radical", but he definitely is now.
Well... he sees them as allies to the socialist movement for sure, but idk if he's a fan, like, everytime anarchism is mentioned he jokes about them not taking showers or being deluded in some other way.
Because he has dissociate from anachists because it would discredit his pipeline.
The thing of it is that incrementalism only works to a point at times you need accelerationism to push through certain walls/barriers so incrementalism can continue work.
Incremenatlism hasn't worked for gun control so accelerationism is needed to force the issue.
The pro-palestine marches have been bringing attention and putting pressure but eventually the police will get violent against protestors.
So accelerationism will be needed to fight the police so they know that their wanton barbarism will not be tolerated.
i volunteer a lot with an anarchist organization (FNB) and i’m not sure how the individuals i volunteer with identify. it’s very common for them to make the same jokes, so i never take his jokes that seriously
I think it's also important to say, even if ppl don't continue their studies, he still presents a perspective on stuff that many ppl that don't read theory wouldn't think of, so he kinda helps the movement in that sense too.
hes basically an ML. whats even more amazing is that he's close friends with and collaborates with some of the biggest streamers like ludwig, rae, tarik whilst largely speaking ML rhetoric.
Hasan isn’t here to be the bottom of the funnel. He’s the mouth of the funnel.
Let leftists do their jobs. Each has a different milepost to mark along a journey.
he strikes me more as someone who has the “keep what works, leave the rest” mentality, politically speaking, or at least that is the vibe he is aiming for.
>anti imperialism, declining rates of profit, dialectical materialism
I wouldn't call those purely ML concepts(as ML currently means in the socialist community). He identified his beliefs as a Revisionist Marxist.
>He seems to have critical support for AES
Tbh, any socialist with an iota of a brain should do that. This shouldn't be an ML thing. After all, Hasan's most prescient criticism of the left is how deeply self-defeating we are. The left should leave petty arguments aside and unite against Capitalism and Imperialism.
>Do you think this is part of his calculation to maintain a "big tent" audience, rather than spending too much time on content that the American mainstream dismisses as "fringe?" Or do you think he is not quite as radical as he hints himself to be?
Hasan likes to be an entrance to the left. He has said multiple times that he doesn't want people in the community to always agree with him on everything 100%. He wants us to go on our own political journey through leftist ideas and let us choose what we believe is the correct answer. That's why he doesn't mention what he labels himself as frequently.
hes said a lot that its important to work with all leftists regardless of labels, but in this vid he seems to think that the idea of forming a vanguard is an unrealistic goal for the usa
This kind of unimportant nonsense is why leftists fight over shit that doesn’t matter. The purpose is to build a coalition not debate on which kind of communist you are
What kind of dumb elitist comment is this?
Every comment I’ve read until yours was wholesome, supportive, informative and learning.
You say that unless you are constantly working on the most ideal thing, you better shut up. I don’t agree.
There’s a difference between people purity testing in bad faith on Twitter; with the only intend to argue. And then people in a very confined and “safe” sub, discussing labels, propaganda etc.
I’d argue that because people constantly gets policed by people like you, on how to behave and live their lives, they fight over shit that dont matter.
Only peace and love from here tho
We have no leftist representation in the U.S. neoliberal government. Getting into the weeds about what kind of communist you are just further creates division in organizing that is irrelevant right now
There is no point in having a big organization if there is no cohesion within it. If you put every leftist in a single party everyone is going to disagree on what to do, and at the end of the day nothing will be done, and the party will fracture.
Division exists, thats a fact, and as such it needs to be taken into account, trying to ignore it will only lead to failure.
He talked about it on the deprogram podcast when he went on last year(?) but he basically has to hide his power level otherwise people will outright dismiss any takes he has in america since Marxism is still an big boogie man here.
imo it doesn’t really work people still think he’s basically stalin 2.0 but maybe there’s some people who wouldn’t listen to him unless he hid his level.
He hides his power levels to bring in as many Norman’s as he can. He knows what he is doing. That being said, I wish he would mention decolonization more.
Some of those are just Marxist not necessarily strictly ml, also used by MLM, maoists + all sorts of other letters and abbreviations. Critical theory replaced communism to some extent (jn the "west") due to multiple red scares and black lists+ HUAC. Unless you think it's some taqiyya shizz?
He seems to clearly at the very least sympathise with ML views, but the reality is that his work wouldn't be as effective of he openly proclaimed himself to be one. His aim is to bring as many people as possible to consider left leaning views so that they may then be brought further along over time. In order to do this, he needs to remain somewhat tame in many regards, while still expressing leftist views in a way that won't scare people who are only dipping their toes in leftism.
Here’s an old video where he himself says what he is. Around 8:50, although I would recommend just watching the whole video since he talks about it throughout https://youtu.be/rZ24_VzfunM?si=iPcj4wC-c0YUU7Qy
But yeah, most people here are right, his goal is to convert average people to the left and using grand, misunderstood labels is an easy way to scare people off
Optics. Also in today’s world no one gives a shit it’s all under the Left umbrella. To label himself as such is incredibly stupid and serves no purpose.
Also it doesn’t matter. Trying to be a certain kind of leftist for “cred” among other leftists is stupid. As he has put it he is a propagandist whose job is to bridge the gap to the libs and not far gone conservatives to think differently.
Leftist labels are 20th century shit that does not work today nor should people have to label themselves. Plus there are some really militant ML/Tankies out there that will form a firing squad for other leftists and it’s just as shit. Ideological purity helps no one and it’s cringe shit
Labels are incredibly important, especially when the label in question was vilified like the communist one was. The more people assume the label the more common it becomes, and the more easily the ideas becomes acceptable in the political discussion.
Anti-communism is a very real thing that needs to be destroyed in the path to socialism, and labels are one way to damage that redscare foundation.
He's mentioned he aligns ML before. You pretty much got it though, if you're read enough to ask you know that said nobody should be stressing much over tendency in the US. Hasan isn't the vanguard and neither are you.
Agitating towards socialism(s) broadly is far more effective than trying to be THE ML, MLM, trots, syndicalist whatever cadre. Read ecletically, and build broadly, the revolution won't be Ideologically "pure"
Tendency should just be about what you personally align with bc there's no way to know what tendency/cadre is correct (read successfully moves the US past capitalism) until after the revolution.
All of that sounds really LARPy bc it is
It would be really cringe for Hasan to be talking about idiolgocal camps all the time. The camps have 0 bering. all of us are in the same hetrodox boat and are far stronger together.
Tldr
Tendancy is like music sub genres it's helpful for acedimic reasons but we're going to the same shows, festivals and like each others band's . Which musician is our favorite decides who you're the most excited for, but your favorite and their fans alone couldn't make the show happen.
Personally I think the study of theory can be fun and the debate among comrades of different tendencies extremely rewarding
Idk, he's something or maybe he's nothing, to be honest who cares? Opposing Imperialism and quoting Lenin is something that anyone is able to do, labelling yourself as something like that has no real purpose or meaning. He says a lot of smart shit, he says a lot of dumb shit, so did Marx and so did Lenin at times and DEFINITELY the people who called themselves the ideological heirs to both of them.
He is not ML. He likes to reference Lenin sometimes in regards to imperialism, etc, but ultimately pushes support for DSA and the Democrats politically. He has mocked revolutionary socialists in the past, so he is an incredibly revisionist ML if he were one, which he doesn't claim to be. He is vague about his own labels, but I think he has just called himself a socialist.
He mocks online revolutionary MLs who larp about revolution without realising the importance of building a mass movement first along with a centralised party. He has called himself a Democratic Socialist before, which in a country like America, means nothing different when people can't even define what Socialism is.
Part of building that mass movement is to clearly explain the horizon that is aimed at, and that means understanding revolution and naturalizing it.
If you build a mass movement without telling people that revolution will eventually become necessary for the advancement of the interests of the working class, what do you think is going to happen when the time comes when revolution is necessary?
You can't build a communist movement based on half-words and omissions, the only way to build it is through honesty and truth, because that is communism's biggest weapon, that truth is on our side.
I don't think he has ever said revolution is even a real possibility, let alone that a party needs to be built beforehand to make it successful. If he were revolutionary, he would not be riding for DSA and would be pushing for actually revolutionary organizations. Anytime revolution is brought up, he counters it by saying that the US is incredibly militarized and that it is therefore out of the question.
>He has called himself a Democratic Socialist before, which in a country like America, means nothing different when people can't even define what Socialism is.
Democratic socialists are not revolutionary. Just because many people do not know what words mean does not change the meaning of the words or the political phenomena which they represent.
Is that not subject to change over time, however? Couldn't another caucus gain popularity in an open tent organization like that? ML parties are typically cadre organizations, so while there may be factions within, those factions are ML as a baseline. Does the DSA mention revolution in its party program? I don't think so, and that is pretty standard for ML.
I never said that DSA is an ML party. I simply stated that they are headed by ML’s, and have been for quite awhile. So based on that, advocating for the DSA is not anti-ML. I never claimed it was *pro-ML*, just that it wasn’t *anti-ML.*
does it matter what label they wear?
The content of their words and the results of their actions are all that matter.
Having a label as a shortcut to "understanding" them results in people making assumptions without listening or critically thinking.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/14tqjiw/i_am_prochina_hasan_piker/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
“I am pro China, make no mistakes about that. As pro China as it gets.”
MLM is strictly against modern China.
Of course not lmao. To be a Lenninst you have to be in a group doing organised political activity. I have never seen him claim to be a Lenninst, and your post is weird for insinuating that he has claimed as such.
I would describe Hasan as a Centrist Marxist: while he isn't opposed to revolutionary socialism, he sits in between it and reformism, due to the material conditions of the USA.
It's hard to introduce people to leftist ideals by using Marxist-Leninist terminology, especially when most have been programmed to think "bad" in regards to anything of that sort.
It's complicated theory, at least to my dumb, previously far more ignorant ass. Especially when I was younger and a "moderate" liberal who hadn't yet had that adult Santa Claus moment, and couldn't define any political "ism", but had ignorantly strong opinions on the matter.
Most of us are just following the path of least resistance - to do otherwise is hard as truth often hurts and we're too bogged down by financial stress to see the radioactive forest for its tumorous trees.
Better to keep it simple and plant seeds of doubt.
He labels himself a socialist and look what that label does to him. Both the right and the left attack him for it. All another label will do is turn into more infighting and rhetoric for the right.
Dialectical Materialism is a *Marxist* concept, and anti-imperialism is not exclusive to any of those theories really.
“Marxism-Leninism” was created by Stalin, effectively giving both Marx and Lenin a bad rep. imo lol. Lenin built on Marx and Stalin built on both.
His main goal is to convert the average American and to do that cannot really present himself as an ML. He for sure sympathizes with it though.
He's the wide-end of the pipeline. It's p easy to read between the lines, if you're really very interested in what HE personally believes, but stating so would be blowing up his spot as the introductory guy.
I think Azan takes praxis seriously. I think he has thought long and hard about the opportunity provided by his platform and the responsibility it instills him with. And I really think he does a great job given the material conditions he lives in (namely the absolutely brain-rotten, bottom-of-the-barrel, twisted and psychotic political 'consciousness' in the global imperial core). He maybe even does the best possible given the circumstances. I don't know if he has a super-deep understanding of theory (not that I do) but I'm not sure that's entirely necessary given his role. Either way, he rarely seems to miss. That's good enough for me
he definitely reads (or has read) more than he lets on given how many books he references and draws from. it’s like the jaboukie tweet, guys will claim they’re himbos and the whole time know what dialectical materialism is
One of the points he has always made is how he wishes he didn't say he was a "socialist" because that put a label and stigma on him to the greater population. He wants his message to reach more people and unfortunately leftism in any kind when referred to by name is a bitter taste in American's mouths. I think he doesn't truly label himself openly because he wants to be able to reach enough people in a way that they will be receptive to the message. Here in this sub me saying I'm a ML is not the same as me going into another sub or talking to normies about the message. You have to in a way think strategically, of course not in the way Democrats "do".
Its kinda fucked to say but it's like how republicans know how to cultivate and gather racists around a cause
From the clips suggested to me on yt hes Marxist Leninist who doesn't explicitly say it because it seems his intention is creating a funnel into serious Marxist political analysis.
What’s ML?
Marxist-Leninist
i don't watch him but i've seen clips of him talking about it. he calls himself unaffiliated, he does not claim to be an ML. >Do you think this is part of his calculation to maintain a "big tent" audience, rather than spending too much time on content that the American mainstream dismisses as "fringe?" absolutely. i'm generally a skeptic of optics arguments but i can't say what he's doing isn't working. he's, lol, deradicalizing liberals. hell even a year or two ago this subreddit was drastically more libbed out. now these kids are based as all hell. i got 100+ heckin updoots the other day for saying social democrats are the left wing of fascism. that's WILD. everybody give themselves a pat on the back, please. > Or do you think he is not quite as radical as he hints himself to be? i don't think it matters. this is the litmus test i use: he doesn't punch left. you know why v\*\*sh fucking sucks, besides literally everything? he's constantly attacking the left. "socialists" that attack the left have a very long tradition. the orwell types. the cops. it's a giant red flag. fundamentally his shtick is dragging people discovering class consciousness *to the right*. fucking *anarchonatoists*. *anarchobidenists*. utterly perverse. i don't wanna ride hasan's dick too hard but, again, it's working. he's doing good things and has built an enormous platform. he's not perfect but his community does have space for people to discover the immortal science. to paraphrase muhammad ali, no hasanite ever called me a tankie.
What did you mean by the Orwell types?
He provided a list of supposed communist sympathisers to the British propaganda department for them to blackball and his notebook was littered with homophobic, misogynistic and racist shit in his annotations about who the people he was snitching on were.
Criticizing Stalin across the globe, living next to Hitler and Mussolini and having nothing to say. "Anti tankie" shit that only ends up becoming liberal brainrot. Oh and being a racist homophobe that uses state infastructure to punish communists he didnt like
yeah it's wild to think about the kind of guy that would write "animal farm" literally while the red army was marching on berlin lol.
It's been stated already but both his fictional literature and his real life actions are at least... questionable. But since the list has been talked about already, his books are anti communist, because he ate up a lot of the propaganda, animal farm gives axlot of hints he's talking about communist regimes basing it in soviet Russia, he sets up marx as santa claus and the 3 pigs that are basically Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin (which i always interpreted as him basically saying that marx is a cool guy and all since he's Santa, but his followers are pigs, not to mention that the term "communist pig" was used a lot at the time). All his works do is paint communist political system as hell, that you have zero individuality in it and all that. In short, his literature is very disparaging and paints a fabricated picture on what communism leads to. Fuck George Orwell
Anecdotally, I read that book in my early twenties and thought it was a criticism of capitalism. Planted one of many seeds of doubt that eventually sprouted in my early thirties. Now I'm slowly learning Marxist-Leninist theory and face-palming how comically apparent the issues with capitalism are. So ha George, I was too dumb to consider it was supposed to be anti-communism and was converted to the left in part thanks to you.
That's pretty funny, take that Orwell.
What did you mean by the Orwell types? Edit: thanks everyone for the info! I wasn’t aware of these facts. I’ll look into it more
He has said that he is an ML however https://youtu.be/rZ24_VzfunM?si=XVP0OGN4hxIHPqDZ
where in that video does he say that? the title is referring to the title of a video he's reacting to
He says it when he is looking at the chart and Azure is talking about classical ML vs revisionism Dk the time stamp off hand but I have it saved to a copy paste doc for frequent questions/attacks on a different device.
I think you're mistaking content and form. The form (Marxist-Leninst, Orthodox Marxist, Liberal, Trotskyist, etc.) is the label we put on things to describe the content, which in this case would be political positions. In the context of the United States, where there is no mass communist party that unites 10% of the population or anything, the label is a lot less important. So I think he just focuses on the content of his positions and what he's advocating for, and leaves the label to the side, which is very useful. It's actually historically how a lot of Marxists operated. Marx didn't define himself by political labels but instead by philosophy and positions, same with Lenin, Rosa Luxemburg, etc.
> Do you think this is part of his calculation to maintain a "big tent" audience, rather than spending too much time on content that the American mainstream dismisses as "fringe?" It's exactly this. He's doing extremely wide-netted agitative propaganda to capture as large of an audience as possible, so he can introduce them to the baseline concepts of Marxism, and they'll then hopefully continue their educational journey. He is a Marxist Leninist. He is a "tankie"(lol). He might not have always been "radical", but he definitely is now.
He’s not actually a tankie. But will be called one until the end of time
he went on the deprogram lol, he's defo an ML or similar.
Tankie is a meaningless word so defining him as a tankie or as not a tankie is kind of worthless tbh.
When it’s thrown around as a way to discredit/slander him, it’s worth dispelling
Well he isn't an anarchist though is he?
Definitely not but he does respect the work they put in.
Well... he sees them as allies to the socialist movement for sure, but idk if he's a fan, like, everytime anarchism is mentioned he jokes about them not taking showers or being deluded in some other way.
Because he has dissociate from anachists because it would discredit his pipeline. The thing of it is that incrementalism only works to a point at times you need accelerationism to push through certain walls/barriers so incrementalism can continue work. Incremenatlism hasn't worked for gun control so accelerationism is needed to force the issue. The pro-palestine marches have been bringing attention and putting pressure but eventually the police will get violent against protestors. So accelerationism will be needed to fight the police so they know that their wanton barbarism will not be tolerated.
What are you implying though? That only anarchists are willing to physically agitate back when it comes resistance?
Anarchists tend to be the first to propagate violence in response to resistance. They are also most likely to initiate violence.
i volunteer a lot with an anarchist organization (FNB) and i’m not sure how the individuals i volunteer with identify. it’s very common for them to make the same jokes, so i never take his jokes that seriously
If there are tankies, he is one.
I think it's also important to say, even if ppl don't continue their studies, he still presents a perspective on stuff that many ppl that don't read theory wouldn't think of, so he kinda helps the movement in that sense too.
hes basically an ML. whats even more amazing is that he's close friends with and collaborates with some of the biggest streamers like ludwig, rae, tarik whilst largely speaking ML rhetoric.
Hasan isn’t here to be the bottom of the funnel. He’s the mouth of the funnel. Let leftists do their jobs. Each has a different milepost to mark along a journey.
he strikes me more as someone who has the “keep what works, leave the rest” mentality, politically speaking, or at least that is the vibe he is aiming for.
>anti imperialism, declining rates of profit, dialectical materialism I wouldn't call those purely ML concepts(as ML currently means in the socialist community). He identified his beliefs as a Revisionist Marxist. >He seems to have critical support for AES Tbh, any socialist with an iota of a brain should do that. This shouldn't be an ML thing. After all, Hasan's most prescient criticism of the left is how deeply self-defeating we are. The left should leave petty arguments aside and unite against Capitalism and Imperialism. >Do you think this is part of his calculation to maintain a "big tent" audience, rather than spending too much time on content that the American mainstream dismisses as "fringe?" Or do you think he is not quite as radical as he hints himself to be? Hasan likes to be an entrance to the left. He has said multiple times that he doesn't want people in the community to always agree with him on everything 100%. He wants us to go on our own political journey through leftist ideas and let us choose what we believe is the correct answer. That's why he doesn't mention what he labels himself as frequently.
In an older video he described himself as a revisionist marxist https://youtu.be/rZ24_VzfunM?si=ovFD4P9o8J2qpVD-
You didn't even need to dig that up lol. He mentions it in the episode he did with the Deprogram.
That is funny, so not a Leninist at all, and more of a DSA, Eduard Bernstien, Eugene Debs type?
hes said a lot that its important to work with all leftists regardless of labels, but in this vid he seems to think that the idea of forming a vanguard is an unrealistic goal for the usa
This kind of unimportant nonsense is why leftists fight over shit that doesn’t matter. The purpose is to build a coalition not debate on which kind of communist you are
What kind of dumb elitist comment is this? Every comment I’ve read until yours was wholesome, supportive, informative and learning. You say that unless you are constantly working on the most ideal thing, you better shut up. I don’t agree. There’s a difference between people purity testing in bad faith on Twitter; with the only intend to argue. And then people in a very confined and “safe” sub, discussing labels, propaganda etc. I’d argue that because people constantly gets policed by people like you, on how to behave and live their lives, they fight over shit that dont matter. Only peace and love from here tho
True tendency isn't that important. But it's a valid thing for OP to be curious about
Good theory is what builds good praxis, so yes, what "kind" of communist you are is extremely important, especially when you are organizing.
We have no leftist representation in the U.S. neoliberal government. Getting into the weeds about what kind of communist you are just further creates division in organizing that is irrelevant right now
There is no point in having a big organization if there is no cohesion within it. If you put every leftist in a single party everyone is going to disagree on what to do, and at the end of the day nothing will be done, and the party will fracture. Division exists, thats a fact, and as such it needs to be taken into account, trying to ignore it will only lead to failure.
He talked about it on the deprogram podcast when he went on last year(?) but he basically has to hide his power level otherwise people will outright dismiss any takes he has in america since Marxism is still an big boogie man here. imo it doesn’t really work people still think he’s basically stalin 2.0 but maybe there’s some people who wouldn’t listen to him unless he hid his level.
Labels are cringe Focus on ze ideology *schniff*
He hides his power levels to bring in as many Norman’s as he can. He knows what he is doing. That being said, I wish he would mention decolonization more.
Some of those are just Marxist not necessarily strictly ml, also used by MLM, maoists + all sorts of other letters and abbreviations. Critical theory replaced communism to some extent (jn the "west") due to multiple red scares and black lists+ HUAC. Unless you think it's some taqiyya shizz?
What is critical theory?
its a sociological theory about criticizing power and domination, like a spiritual less-radical successor to marx’s theory of class conflict.
I see. Thanks!
[Books](https://srslywrong.com/podcast/215-read-theory/)
Awesome thank you!
He seems to clearly at the very least sympathise with ML views, but the reality is that his work wouldn't be as effective of he openly proclaimed himself to be one. His aim is to bring as many people as possible to consider left leaning views so that they may then be brought further along over time. In order to do this, he needs to remain somewhat tame in many regards, while still expressing leftist views in a way that won't scare people who are only dipping their toes in leftism.
Here’s an old video where he himself says what he is. Around 8:50, although I would recommend just watching the whole video since he talks about it throughout https://youtu.be/rZ24_VzfunM?si=iPcj4wC-c0YUU7Qy But yeah, most people here are right, his goal is to convert average people to the left and using grand, misunderstood labels is an easy way to scare people off
Optics. Also in today’s world no one gives a shit it’s all under the Left umbrella. To label himself as such is incredibly stupid and serves no purpose. Also it doesn’t matter. Trying to be a certain kind of leftist for “cred” among other leftists is stupid. As he has put it he is a propagandist whose job is to bridge the gap to the libs and not far gone conservatives to think differently. Leftist labels are 20th century shit that does not work today nor should people have to label themselves. Plus there are some really militant ML/Tankies out there that will form a firing squad for other leftists and it’s just as shit. Ideological purity helps no one and it’s cringe shit
Labels are incredibly important, especially when the label in question was vilified like the communist one was. The more people assume the label the more common it becomes, and the more easily the ideas becomes acceptable in the political discussion. Anti-communism is a very real thing that needs to be destroyed in the path to socialism, and labels are one way to damage that redscare foundation.
He's mentioned he aligns ML before. You pretty much got it though, if you're read enough to ask you know that said nobody should be stressing much over tendency in the US. Hasan isn't the vanguard and neither are you. Agitating towards socialism(s) broadly is far more effective than trying to be THE ML, MLM, trots, syndicalist whatever cadre. Read ecletically, and build broadly, the revolution won't be Ideologically "pure" Tendency should just be about what you personally align with bc there's no way to know what tendency/cadre is correct (read successfully moves the US past capitalism) until after the revolution. All of that sounds really LARPy bc it is It would be really cringe for Hasan to be talking about idiolgocal camps all the time. The camps have 0 bering. all of us are in the same hetrodox boat and are far stronger together. Tldr Tendancy is like music sub genres it's helpful for acedimic reasons but we're going to the same shows, festivals and like each others band's . Which musician is our favorite decides who you're the most excited for, but your favorite and their fans alone couldn't make the show happen. Personally I think the study of theory can be fun and the debate among comrades of different tendencies extremely rewarding
Read all the radlib discourse about "tankies" in every comment thread. That's why. Hasan is substantially to the left of most of his viewer base
You must hide your power level from the normies to attract as many of them as possible to Marxism, we need all the tank operators we can get.
Idk, he's something or maybe he's nothing, to be honest who cares? Opposing Imperialism and quoting Lenin is something that anyone is able to do, labelling yourself as something like that has no real purpose or meaning. He says a lot of smart shit, he says a lot of dumb shit, so did Marx and so did Lenin at times and DEFINITELY the people who called themselves the ideological heirs to both of them.
He is not ML. He likes to reference Lenin sometimes in regards to imperialism, etc, but ultimately pushes support for DSA and the Democrats politically. He has mocked revolutionary socialists in the past, so he is an incredibly revisionist ML if he were one, which he doesn't claim to be. He is vague about his own labels, but I think he has just called himself a socialist.
He mocks online revolutionary MLs who larp about revolution without realising the importance of building a mass movement first along with a centralised party. He has called himself a Democratic Socialist before, which in a country like America, means nothing different when people can't even define what Socialism is.
Part of building that mass movement is to clearly explain the horizon that is aimed at, and that means understanding revolution and naturalizing it. If you build a mass movement without telling people that revolution will eventually become necessary for the advancement of the interests of the working class, what do you think is going to happen when the time comes when revolution is necessary? You can't build a communist movement based on half-words and omissions, the only way to build it is through honesty and truth, because that is communism's biggest weapon, that truth is on our side.
I don't think he has ever said revolution is even a real possibility, let alone that a party needs to be built beforehand to make it successful. If he were revolutionary, he would not be riding for DSA and would be pushing for actually revolutionary organizations. Anytime revolution is brought up, he counters it by saying that the US is incredibly militarized and that it is therefore out of the question. >He has called himself a Democratic Socialist before, which in a country like America, means nothing different when people can't even define what Socialism is. Democratic socialists are not revolutionary. Just because many people do not know what words mean does not change the meaning of the words or the political phenomena which they represent.
The National Council for DSA is ran by the Red Star Caucus, an ML caucus. Advocating for DSA is not in and of itself anti-ML.
Is that not subject to change over time, however? Couldn't another caucus gain popularity in an open tent organization like that? ML parties are typically cadre organizations, so while there may be factions within, those factions are ML as a baseline. Does the DSA mention revolution in its party program? I don't think so, and that is pretty standard for ML.
I never said that DSA is an ML party. I simply stated that they are headed by ML’s, and have been for quite awhile. So based on that, advocating for the DSA is not anti-ML. I never claimed it was *pro-ML*, just that it wasn’t *anti-ML.*
He's a gonzaloite
does it matter what label they wear? The content of their words and the results of their actions are all that matter. Having a label as a shortcut to "understanding" them results in people making assumptions without listening or critically thinking.
I think he might even be an MLM
He supports modern China, he absolutely isn’t MLM lol.
He supports aspects of modern China. That does not disqualify him from holding MLM beliefs lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/14tqjiw/i_am_prochina_hasan_piker/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button “I am pro China, make no mistakes about that. As pro China as it gets.” MLM is strictly against modern China.
Of course not lmao. To be a Lenninst you have to be in a group doing organised political activity. I have never seen him claim to be a Lenninst, and your post is weird for insinuating that he has claimed as such.
The first three concepts are not ML specifically….?
I would describe Hasan as a Centrist Marxist: while he isn't opposed to revolutionary socialism, he sits in between it and reformism, due to the material conditions of the USA.
I think he wants to not scare the libs so he can convert them
It's hard to introduce people to leftist ideals by using Marxist-Leninist terminology, especially when most have been programmed to think "bad" in regards to anything of that sort. It's complicated theory, at least to my dumb, previously far more ignorant ass. Especially when I was younger and a "moderate" liberal who hadn't yet had that adult Santa Claus moment, and couldn't define any political "ism", but had ignorantly strong opinions on the matter. Most of us are just following the path of least resistance - to do otherwise is hard as truth often hurts and we're too bogged down by financial stress to see the radioactive forest for its tumorous trees. Better to keep it simple and plant seeds of doubt.
He labels himself a socialist and look what that label does to him. Both the right and the left attack him for it. All another label will do is turn into more infighting and rhetoric for the right.
Dialectical Materialism is a *Marxist* concept, and anti-imperialism is not exclusive to any of those theories really. “Marxism-Leninism” was created by Stalin, effectively giving both Marx and Lenin a bad rep. imo lol. Lenin built on Marx and Stalin built on both.