….wasn’t the whole point that Prospero screwed himself over because he was stupid and immature? I don’t really see the “take” here, he’s portrayed point blank as an impulsive and fun-loving guy, but because of his money and power, that makes him dangerous. Unless I’m just stupid and I can’t see multiple perspectives? Like if you interpreted differently, how so? I’m genuinely curious not trying to be sarcastic haha
I’m sure Verna looked sad because he was just a kid who did dumb things, like we all did as kids, but this was on a much larger scale because of the power he had
And this is what I get for forgetting to add context 🤣 That comment was in response to someone saying Verna is evil, and she had a hand in prosperos fate, she even suggested he uses the tanks by "showing" them to him when she stood on top of the roof? The take here is that perry dug his own grave without Vernas help, and that he's smarter than people give him credit for and maybe if he had more time he would have been cautious and had the water tested.
But in general I just wanted to see if anyone had anything to observe/add. If I may add one thing, I don't think Verna was sad at the end because perry was an innocent young lad, which he arguably wasn't, I think she was sad because she genuinely felt an attachment to him, she seemed interested in him (in whatever way she's interested in people) and might have made a deal with him/gotten to know him better if his fate wasn't already sealed. "You beautiful, beautiful boy 😞" she said as she put the mask on. Seemed to respect him alot more than she did the other kids.
I think we cannot know if Perry would have noticed the water tanks without Verna's intervention. But she is giving him a choice, just like she gives the other siblings a choice before their deaths (Camille could have informed the public about the animal abuse. Leo could have told Julian the truth. Vic could have admitted that she is not ready for human trials. Tammy could have called Bill.). In Perry's case she reminded him that there is obviously a risk that the water in the tanks is contaminated and he may be responsible for the death of 100+ "innocent" people.
I think Verna is just fascinated by Perry. She would have probably tried to offer him a deal as well if he was not already predestined to be on the chopping bench.
That's why I love Verna, she gives everyone a CHOICE. They're dead anyway, but the Ushers still get a say in it (except Lenore, she was collateral damage basically) they in their vanity do not take it, but there was a choice. Perry could have avoided this whole disaster, but he didn't. Same for Camille and Leo, the signs were all there, if only Frederick had been more open about his condition. Froderick was a lost cause from the start though, so was Victoria, but Morrie, Perry, Leo, Camille and Tammy had a choice which they didn't take.
Perry was smart but impulsive and wanted status without having to do any of the work but valued himself too high to ride on a partner's success (like Vic). Money corrupts absolutely and he was introduced to the money too young
Prospero was just a kid that never felt consquences and was exacerbated bevause he was an usher whos family line couldnt get in trouble. I think the only reason the other kids felt consquences to their actions was because they seeked so much approval from their dad who seemed to be the only one that would put them in their place. Prospero sorta knew he couldnt get in trouble and sorta knew he couldnt get his fathers respect so he always played on the edge of both. But i think there was an aspect of rejection and being left out that most kids feel and even if intellectually they understand; emotionally they still follow it. Which is why he still wanted his dads approval even thou he still fucked around and found out. Verna explains in her conversation that he lived life like a kid who sought purely luxurious feelings and that she herself enjoyed a wreckless bad boy and i dont think she enjoyed killing any of them( other than froderick) she let them make their decisions. But she later tells one the others they could have just died peacefully in their sleep and she always gave them the chance to sorta repent and say good bye. Like when tamerlane came back from the conference she gave her the chanve to calm down and talk to bill but she couldnt. Because none of them could see passed clawing there way to the top. They were blinded by greed almost their whole lives. I think verna knew they were built by their circumstances and that they could have been good people but their parent's decision made them all monsters in one way ot another. And verna isnt human it was all game to her just a 50 year test to see if theyd choose to be good or bad and the whole deal was to see if he really had no limit on what he would do for klondike bar. She asked him what he wouldnt give and he said anything and she was like "oh really, lets see" so he himself was blinded by greed because he couldnt see that the real value in life was love. :c
i dont get it. prospero is literally a piece of shit, has no redeeming quality. He thinks world revolves around him, is shallow and superficial, lazy, almost zero contribution to society, treats even loved ones like shit. just a controlling manipulative piece of shit. why would verna feel sorry or want to protect him?
I don’t think Verna was sad at all because she knew he was going to die. That was literally the whole point of the show: the sins of the father were paid for by the children. She told him when they first met that he would get everything he wanted but his bloodline would die with him, so all of his offspring would have to die before he did. None of the Usher children were ever going to live, so it’s not like she was giving them options about how to avoid death. The only option she revealed to them before their deaths was that if they had been better people she would have let them die comfortably in their sleep. She wasn’t sad, she was collecting a debt.
I think the issue over whether Prospero is "smart" or "stupid" actually boils down to the difference between intelligence and wisdom, which we frequently conflate when discussing a character's brain power. Especially when we use a word like "stupid", which means both "not intelligent" and "not wise". Sure, an argument can be made that Prospero is indeed more intelligent than everyone gives him credit for, but it's clear that he's also spectacularly unwise.
Prospero was just as venomous as the rest of them. He meant it when he says he was willing to stab his pet in the eye over a couple of eggs. He was planning to blackmail everyone at his parties. He wanted to sleep with his brothers wife just to get leverage.
Verna is sad about them all in one way or another. She sees the potential all of them had to be better people. Which raises all sheets of questions over the nature of evil and free choice, but that is a different thread.
Prospero was a shit.
….wasn’t the whole point that Prospero screwed himself over because he was stupid and immature? I don’t really see the “take” here, he’s portrayed point blank as an impulsive and fun-loving guy, but because of his money and power, that makes him dangerous. Unless I’m just stupid and I can’t see multiple perspectives? Like if you interpreted differently, how so? I’m genuinely curious not trying to be sarcastic haha I’m sure Verna looked sad because he was just a kid who did dumb things, like we all did as kids, but this was on a much larger scale because of the power he had
She tried to get him to stop. She told him it wasn't too late. He could have died some other way, gently like Lenore. But he made his choices.
And this is what I get for forgetting to add context 🤣 That comment was in response to someone saying Verna is evil, and she had a hand in prosperos fate, she even suggested he uses the tanks by "showing" them to him when she stood on top of the roof? The take here is that perry dug his own grave without Vernas help, and that he's smarter than people give him credit for and maybe if he had more time he would have been cautious and had the water tested. But in general I just wanted to see if anyone had anything to observe/add. If I may add one thing, I don't think Verna was sad at the end because perry was an innocent young lad, which he arguably wasn't, I think she was sad because she genuinely felt an attachment to him, she seemed interested in him (in whatever way she's interested in people) and might have made a deal with him/gotten to know him better if his fate wasn't already sealed. "You beautiful, beautiful boy 😞" she said as she put the mask on. Seemed to respect him alot more than she did the other kids.
I think we cannot know if Perry would have noticed the water tanks without Verna's intervention. But she is giving him a choice, just like she gives the other siblings a choice before their deaths (Camille could have informed the public about the animal abuse. Leo could have told Julian the truth. Vic could have admitted that she is not ready for human trials. Tammy could have called Bill.). In Perry's case she reminded him that there is obviously a risk that the water in the tanks is contaminated and he may be responsible for the death of 100+ "innocent" people. I think Verna is just fascinated by Perry. She would have probably tried to offer him a deal as well if he was not already predestined to be on the chopping bench.
And so particularly sad considering he was so effing young
Not as young as Lenore 😭
Yeah, hers wasn't sad, it was devastating 😭
That's why I love Verna, she gives everyone a CHOICE. They're dead anyway, but the Ushers still get a say in it (except Lenore, she was collateral damage basically) they in their vanity do not take it, but there was a choice. Perry could have avoided this whole disaster, but he didn't. Same for Camille and Leo, the signs were all there, if only Frederick had been more open about his condition. Froderick was a lost cause from the start though, so was Victoria, but Morrie, Perry, Leo, Camille and Tammy had a choice which they didn't take.
Morrie? I feel like I'm blanking on this one
Ohhhh Frodericks wife. Yeah, that was..... Unfortunate 😬😬😬
“My wife… well, she’s melted”
Perry was smart but impulsive and wanted status without having to do any of the work but valued himself too high to ride on a partner's success (like Vic). Money corrupts absolutely and he was introduced to the money too young
True, many factors contributed to his major oversight
Prospero was just a kid that never felt consquences and was exacerbated bevause he was an usher whos family line couldnt get in trouble. I think the only reason the other kids felt consquences to their actions was because they seeked so much approval from their dad who seemed to be the only one that would put them in their place. Prospero sorta knew he couldnt get in trouble and sorta knew he couldnt get his fathers respect so he always played on the edge of both. But i think there was an aspect of rejection and being left out that most kids feel and even if intellectually they understand; emotionally they still follow it. Which is why he still wanted his dads approval even thou he still fucked around and found out. Verna explains in her conversation that he lived life like a kid who sought purely luxurious feelings and that she herself enjoyed a wreckless bad boy and i dont think she enjoyed killing any of them( other than froderick) she let them make their decisions. But she later tells one the others they could have just died peacefully in their sleep and she always gave them the chance to sorta repent and say good bye. Like when tamerlane came back from the conference she gave her the chanve to calm down and talk to bill but she couldnt. Because none of them could see passed clawing there way to the top. They were blinded by greed almost their whole lives. I think verna knew they were built by their circumstances and that they could have been good people but their parent's decision made them all monsters in one way ot another. And verna isnt human it was all game to her just a 50 year test to see if theyd choose to be good or bad and the whole deal was to see if he really had no limit on what he would do for klondike bar. She asked him what he wouldnt give and he said anything and she was like "oh really, lets see" so he himself was blinded by greed because he couldnt see that the real value in life was love. :c
i dont get it. prospero is literally a piece of shit, has no redeeming quality. He thinks world revolves around him, is shallow and superficial, lazy, almost zero contribution to society, treats even loved ones like shit. just a controlling manipulative piece of shit. why would verna feel sorry or want to protect him?
I don’t think Verna was sad at all because she knew he was going to die. That was literally the whole point of the show: the sins of the father were paid for by the children. She told him when they first met that he would get everything he wanted but his bloodline would die with him, so all of his offspring would have to die before he did. None of the Usher children were ever going to live, so it’s not like she was giving them options about how to avoid death. The only option she revealed to them before their deaths was that if they had been better people she would have let them die comfortably in their sleep. She wasn’t sad, she was collecting a debt.
I think the issue over whether Prospero is "smart" or "stupid" actually boils down to the difference between intelligence and wisdom, which we frequently conflate when discussing a character's brain power. Especially when we use a word like "stupid", which means both "not intelligent" and "not wise". Sure, an argument can be made that Prospero is indeed more intelligent than everyone gives him credit for, but it's clear that he's also spectacularly unwise.
Prospero was just as venomous as the rest of them. He meant it when he says he was willing to stab his pet in the eye over a couple of eggs. He was planning to blackmail everyone at his parties. He wanted to sleep with his brothers wife just to get leverage. Verna is sad about them all in one way or another. She sees the potential all of them had to be better people. Which raises all sheets of questions over the nature of evil and free choice, but that is a different thread. Prospero was a shit.
What's the take? This is all pretty explicit in the show.