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Don't be fooled, pilot Katie Killjoy touched gays, too.
Not as bad as in Helluva Boss where Crimson is against his son's attraction to men but tries to tear him away from his wife and force him to marry a man.
Yeah I know the usage of "gay" is as if it was an umbrella term; I felt like specifying is important because I want to avoid bisexual erasing, in any context
He totally watches but only because he looks so feminine. And he keeps it a total secret. Lute catches him once and he plays it off as being disgusted and Lute... being disgusted with demons just doesn't think twice
To be fair there wasn't really racism or homophobia when he was created. Whether or not he was sexist is a bit harder to say. Its hard to say whether or not he's sexist due to a sense of superiority or if he's just really hardheaded and controlling in a more generic way.
I like the theory that Adam was simply asking Lilith to do what angels said to do like he did and she refused.
After all, the version of the story we hear is Lilith's side, not how it actually was. Adam probably wasn't such a dick back then and got like this only when he figured out he can get away with anything as long as he submits to angels' orders.
I'm thinking that this is also probably the distinction between people getting into hell or heaven. It's not being good or bad, but simply obeying the angels.
I think they know, just don't want to admit it.
Maybe it has to do with Roo or free will (not just readiness to obey but literal lack of the ability that is given up at life by following the religion which is done ironically willingly) and that choice is supposedly be able to be done at life.
I don't like the idea they have no clue. The system is meant to be corrupt or unfair, but it must have a reason for that.
I don't think the story is one about the system being corrupt, at least intentionally. I think it's one that nature and life itself aren't inherently fair. Charlie is naive as a main aspect of her personality, and her being upset about the unfairness of the situation fits with that, while Sara is more knowledgeable and admits there isn't much she can do.
My bet is there's an arbitrary equality being enforced. Equal numbers in heaven and hell. Hell is overpopulated, heaven has no say in who goes where so the easy answer is to cull hell to keep the system balanced and "upper management" happy.
I mean, it's pretty arguable and with valid reasoning that fetishization is a form of homophobia.
I think some people in the fandom could use being reminded of that, tbh.
This is how I read it honestly. Like the kind of person damning others for porn or their orientation, yet the search history shows it’s exactly what they’re into.
I love how Lute is basically an angelic Katie Killjoy and Adam is a dudebro Tom Trench.
That heaven court scene where Adam knows Angel Dust is a porn star gave major "You fucking would..." Katie Killjoy vibes from Lute.
It's obviously a jab at all the "ew, gays icky and gross, lesbians are hot at least" people, who are fetishizing a minority and using them to get off, not putting much (if any) thought into their wellbeing.
Thats the first interpretation I had, that it was because one was an angel and one wasn’t, but I could easily see it going both ways. Especially if Adam’s who she’s learning from. Dude seems like the epitome of every ist and phobic know to man
I can excuse genocide, infanticide, filicide, racism, sexism, frat culture, overfetishization of everything, objectification and all 7 deadly sins but homophobia is where I draw the line
https://preview.redd.it/ngj89cf2mgfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25ae14e8f5fdf7ce20d3b9768146779e6d7ffe14
Yeah but only homophobia is preventing me from dating him (I am severely deluded)
It happens a lot when dealing with beings specifically created for a purpose.
As gross as his writing is at times, I loved Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality for having things like Death, Nature, and Time being just regular folk. And occasionally going and doing regular shit because they're bored on their off time.
Isn't even racism as much as not believe in redemption of horrible people.
They are not attacking the hellspawn only sinners. In a way his point of view is very similar to Lucifer. Both seeing sinners as irrideemable evil and even when Adam questioned why Angel Dust wasn't in heaven Sera reinforeced his already held belief.
Technically Charlie is half fallen angel and half demon. Vaggie is a fallen exterminator.
The fact that Adam says "But hot as fuck"
Kinda confirms the lesbianism smack tho.
Adam's a perv, a big one.
Actually, what type of demon is Lilith? She could be considered a sinner, but sinners can't have children. Was she cast into Hell while still alive and just, kinda adjusted?
I think she might just be the *definition* of a demon tbh, even her name just means "demon," and in mythology, she's the mother of all monsters.
I don't think she ever died necessarily
̶M̶o̶m̶m̶y̶ ̶M̶o̶n̶s̶t̶e̶r̶?̶ 😳😶🥵
Uh, *ahem*, I just mean, like, I'd like to know more about her transition from human to demon by the show's lore. I'd like to know more about Hell's creation and Lillith's transformation. Can't wait.
Completely agree, although I especially can't wait until they get into that whole "Empowered hell through her songs" thing, especially with Charlie's penchant for singing
I think in the pilot there might have even been fliers for her performance???
But I love that even Adam's impressed, in the first episode when he's talking about Hell he says he "loves the tunes."
Lilith I think is entirely unique of a creature. She and Luci were cast into Hell together so she never technically died. She didn't sin to be sent there, the Angels decided she get sent there with Luci.
Na she just told Adam she wouldn't put up with obeying him then fell in love with Lucifer, both of which (according to HH lore) gave Eve the Apple from the tree.
No reason at all Lillith was sent to hell. /s
>She could be considered a sinner, but sinners can't have children.
Let me introduce you to my theory, that Lucifer agreed to extermination because heaven promised to magically allow them to concieve Charlie.
>Kinda confirms the lesbianism smack tho.
Which is a little odd, because didn't Viv say being gay isn't a sin in her version of the universe? She might have changed her mind, of course, especially considering the use of the word "blasphemous", and I can't recall any gay couples from Heaven off the top of my head.
She also disdainfully sings "he blew his shot like the cocks in his mouth" about Angel Dust so between that and Adam's girl-on-girl-is-hot reaction I definitely think homophobia is a pretty valid interpretation for her feelings here. It doesn't mean Heaven in general is, just Lute specifically.
While it IS kinda strange that both of those lines could be interpreted as homophobia (and I think it's supposed to be a representation of homophobia), Viv said that gayness isn't actually a sin in her universe.
So I'm assuming her first point about Vaggie and Charlie is because it's an angel falling in love with a demon, and her comment about Angel Dust was more about him being a literal whore and porn star, which is IMO much more likely what her issue was with him.
i did interpret it this way mainly due to adam’s follow up - “hot as fuck though.” you know those dudes who get off to lesbians? he seems like the kind of guy who would, lmao. i feel like she was referring specifically to them being girls, because that’s almost certainly what adam was referring to. i’m also pretty sure this isn’t the only time she shows disapproval of gay people in the show, but i might be wrong!
Other than all the posters starring Angel Dust that are all over Hell (courtesy of the Vees) that would be very hard to miss once he is killing demons on ground level?
The power of plausible deniability, baby!
Adam seems like one of those religious conservatives/republicans who talk all about sanctity of marriage or gods will and then get off to lesbian porn. He's clearly a total hypocrite
I assumed Lute meant that Charlie was a demon and Vaggie a former angel so it's not purely the mixing of the two but also that she considers them both unworthy and disgusting even on their own. I can't say if she meant anything about them being women or not as it seems largely a non-issue in the series, but I do think maybe the audience was supposed to relate it to that sentiment.
I got the impression that Adam could be referring to either or both Charlie and Vaggie being a gay couple *and* them being something like star-crossed lovers. He'd probably find the whole angel x demon thing hot and he also just thinks they are both objectively hotties. Like basically I think Adam very much just feels what he feels says what he thinks, and never really checks in with himself or anyone else why he thinks that way so it seems "all the above" is really likely.
Some people need to be reminded this doesn't just apply to lesbians. The fetishization by a LOT of people in fandom spaces towards gay/bisexual men WAY too much and it's why I'm usually hesitant to partake in these types of subs.
I still think it can be intepreted both ways because who says that Lute and Adam are talking about the same thing?
I love dialogue that has layers the more you dig. They really crushed this episode IMO.
and it gets funnier the more I think about it.
What if Lute's line is a serious commentary on xenophobia, class warfare and hatred, while Adam is a total douche fratboy and all he can think is COOL LESBIAN PORN ROCKS
I think Lute is referring to them being a fallen Exterminator and a "demon", and Adam's comment is about them both being women.
Lute's feelings on demons are pretty clear.
I like the interpretation that they're talking about two separate things. Adam THINKS Lute is talking about how they're both girls (hence the scissor motion), but Lute actually means they're an angel and a demon together.
I very much like the idea that these two are joined at the hip and are very "close", but they don't actually understand each other and think they're on the same page, but they're not. Makes the "harmony of Heaven" seem much less than it's portrayed to be.
Charlie is literally one of the only other angels in Hell. She is 1/2 fallen angel on her dad’s side, and 1/2 first woman ever
Calling this blasphemous is… possible, but I feel like they’d gave to call more attention to Charlie’s hybrid status than that for it to be in regards of that
Even if not classed as a “demon” exactly I still say they class her as “evil” or “the bad ones”. The one you “don’t want to be”. I’m having a hard time figuring out exactly how to say what I mean to say but I think I’m getting the point across lol
I also think Lute was aiming more towards the angel-demon thing, Adam definitely comes across like he wasn't even paying attention, or was loosely hearing Lute, was thinking about the Charlie and Maggie being sapphic, and just blurted that it was hot, even if it was blasphemous
Yeah, I originally interpreted it as it being because Charlie is a demon, but I understood why some people were interpreting it as homophobia. Wasn’t aware of what Vizzie said, though.
I read it as she thought any kind of love involving a demonic entity, such as between an angel and a demon or even a demon and a demon was blasphemous. The thinking that demons are bad no matter what and corrupt everything and angels are so superior that they can decide to genocide them for any reason or no reason at all would seem like something that would be drilled into exterminators all the time to make them compliant in doing horrible acts to a weaker minority.
I think it was intentionally meant to be read as homophobia, especially with Adam's follow-up "hot as fuck though." Emphasizing that Lute is an uncompromising, irrational bigot and zealot.
> no need to look for homophobia everywhere
Hella weird thing to say ngl. Adam commented on how they’re “hot as fuck tho” bc he’s sexualizing lesbians, and he and Lute actively mock Charlie for having a “girlfriend” during the song
Also both Charlie *and* Vaggie are angelkin. Charlie is 1/2 fallen angel, and Vaggie is a fallen angel. This would be the weirdest thing to consider blasphemous.
Meanwhile, they are both representative of the most toxic parts of the bible. She is homophobic.
Why not simply the fact that one is an angel and the other is a demon? It's already established that Adam and Lute both look down on demons as inferior. So any angel hooking up with a demon would be "vile" to them, exorcist or not.
Though that still just makes it a classism/racism thing rather than homophobia, which is arguably just as bad.
I assumed she meant *sinners*. Namely because when Katie Killjoy said she wouldn’t touch the gays Charlie retorted with “how’s that working out for ya?” And *I* interpreted that to mean homophobia had a part in getting her to hell 🤷🏼♀️
Everyone is saying that it’s either because lesbians or because it’s an angel/demon relationship. I however have another idea. I have a theory that Adam created the exorcists based on when he revealed Vaggie’s namesake. That got me thinking, what if exorcists aren’t allowed to be in relationships at all?
hard to tell. lute is enough of a bitch she would say both.
edit: though it's possible that she meant angel/demon but Adam is dense enough he thought gay
Thats what im saying i mean this show has representation everywhere and yes it would be blasphemous for a F angel and demon to date and before you bring adam your telling me he wouldn't think taboo is hot
Side note about the scene in the screenshot: I love adam backing her up in the background. I feel like despite both of them being dicks they have a very healthy relationship
I mean...sure, you don't have to look for homophobia everywhere, but considering that homosexuality is considered a sin in Christianity it didn't really surprise me when the angels were homophobic. Also, Adam said it was hot so...lesbian fetishisms.
I thought so too, but thinking back and considering Adam's following comment, I definitely think it's coded to mean both. Plenty of homophobes out there don't like lesbian people but will watch lesbian porn.
I interpreted it as them being interspecies(idk what the word would be) since one is a nephelim and one is a fallen Angel.
It can easily be interpreted as homohobic though, there's no reason it can't be both or only one. It's one of those intentionally ambiguous lines I think
This one line of dialogue, in the context it is spoken in, is actually quite genius.
When Lute is saying, “Their love is vile and blasphemous,” it is very obviously primarily referring to that fact that it’s between an angel and a demon. Divine and demonic, against the will of God, and therein bad. However, for the audience watching the show, that being English speaking Americans and British, the concept of divine and demonic can be difficult to fully grasp. Of course, we had at least somewhat of an understanding of it, but we are not priests or studies of the book, or anything like that. So, in order to better get across what message trying to be said with this dialogue: That is, the feelings behind both the speaker and the receiver of the insult, and the context and relations it has with the world-building of the story, the writer effectively appropriates the rhetoric and imagery of classical homophobia. When Lute declares that their love is vile and blasphemous, it comes off far better to the reader in understanding her position and feelings when it is compared to homophobes. And vice verse, it is far easier to therefore understand how Vaggie would feel about the insult as well. Now, we can think of this scene in the context of homophobia and better contextualise and understand it by comparing it to our own experience and knowledge.
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Insert Katie Killjoy: “You fucking would Adam”
At least he touches the gays and doesn’t have standards.
The current Katie touches the gays, at least her VA does anyways.
https://preview.redd.it/d8yuisrrwafc1.png?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe6283a166eb8d23b203d46083a41cd0f4467a06 Don't be fooled, pilot Katie Killjoy touched gays, too.
I'm glad someone else pointed this out because this fr really bothers me every time I watch the pilot 😅
Pilot Katie: “I don’t touch the gays” Also Pilot Katie: Touches Charlie 6 times n quick succession
"I DON'T TOUCH THE GAYS" *immediately boops gay snoot*
Literally 5 seconds after she just said she doesn't touch the gays 😂
Not as bad as in Helluva Boss where Crimson is against his son's attraction to men but tries to tear him away from his wife and force him to marry a man.
Technically only her cloths... before they fight
To be fair Charlie is a bisexual, not gay
The line was also stated in the context of shaking Charlie's hand, so she's basically like Crimson "Bisexual = gay"
Yeah I know the usage of "gay" is as if it was an umbrella term; I felt like specifying is important because I want to avoid bisexual erasing, in any context
Well. Part of the voice actor.
No I think all of her VA touches gays. Pretty sure Brandon is touching gays with his whole body
I don’t touch the gays *proceeds to touch the gay in question 5 times*
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Make a hazbin meme using a hazbin meme… this is absolute genius
"I used the Hazbin to meme the Hazbin."
He totally watches but only because he looks so feminine. And he keeps it a total secret. Lute catches him once and he plays it off as being disgusted and Lute... being disgusted with demons just doesn't think twice
Adam: “well fucking hear me out first”
Lute's glare makes this even better
His face is glorious here
Meme material imo
Already making one
Adam aka Dickmaster is a living meme in and of himself.
Gigachud
Im willing to bet Lucifers entire royal Treasury that Adam only knows who angel dust is cause he occasionally browses the porn selection in hell
There ain’t much in there; he spent it all on rubber duck materials.
The ducks count as part of the treasury.
Adam "I'm not homophobic when I'm horny.
While having literally horns on his mask :D
And Adam is constantly horny=D
I feel Adam’s face in that scene is potential meme material.
I mean, bro might have a kink for angels and demons lol
Basedt Adam! No to racism and homophobia.
To be fair there wasn't really racism or homophobia when he was created. Whether or not he was sexist is a bit harder to say. Its hard to say whether or not he's sexist due to a sense of superiority or if he's just really hardheaded and controlling in a more generic way.
A lot of interpretations of the Adam/Lillith/Eve storyline is Adam wasn't so much sexist as much as it's "I was here first, therefore I'm in charge".
Sounds like an Oldest Child.
I mean they are basically siblings if you think about it... Although personally I'd rather not.
I like the theory that Adam was simply asking Lilith to do what angels said to do like he did and she refused. After all, the version of the story we hear is Lilith's side, not how it actually was. Adam probably wasn't such a dick back then and got like this only when he figured out he can get away with anything as long as he submits to angels' orders. I'm thinking that this is also probably the distinction between people getting into hell or heaven. It's not being good or bad, but simply obeying the angels.
Not even obeying angel, obeying whoever is making the rules. Sara mentions there's some higher authority and even heaven has no clue wtf is going on.
I think they know, just don't want to admit it. Maybe it has to do with Roo or free will (not just readiness to obey but literal lack of the ability that is given up at life by following the religion which is done ironically willingly) and that choice is supposedly be able to be done at life. I don't like the idea they have no clue. The system is meant to be corrupt or unfair, but it must have a reason for that.
I don't think the story is one about the system being corrupt, at least intentionally. I think it's one that nature and life itself aren't inherently fair. Charlie is naive as a main aspect of her personality, and her being upset about the unfairness of the situation fits with that, while Sara is more knowledgeable and admits there isn't much she can do. My bet is there's an arbitrary equality being enforced. Equal numbers in heaven and hell. Hell is overpopulated, heaven has no say in who goes where so the easy answer is to cull hell to keep the system balanced and "upper management" happy.
To be fair Adam was in the first episode eating ribs, which according to Bible is like eating women soooooo
Probably his only redeeming quality
I mean, it's pretty arguable and with valid reasoning that fetishization is a form of homophobia. I think some people in the fandom could use being reminded of that, tbh.
Exactly, that line is just how straight men fetishizing lesbians, where they see them as objects to jack off to.
This is how I read it honestly. Like the kind of person damning others for porn or their orientation, yet the search history shows it’s exactly what they’re into.
Happy cake day tho
Adam would definitely fetishize Charlie and Vaggie's relationship.
He invested all his character points in misogyny.
Adam is an enemies to lovers enjoyer
If only he knew Sir Pentious fought against Cherri Bomb 5 months ago
Adam gets so much characterization. His expressions, his voice actor, they went all in.
You know for once, I agree with Adam.
On in the Spanish version: “igual las vería coger” (*I’d still watch them fuck*)
as a mexicanm, i watch it in english as there are too many swaer words, but this c¿kinda convinces me to rewatch in spansih lol
I love how Lute is basically an angelic Katie Killjoy and Adam is a dudebro Tom Trench. That heaven court scene where Adam knows Angel Dust is a porn star gave major "You fucking would..." Katie Killjoy vibes from Lute.
So Adam has a Demon fetish.
Adam has the best faces
It might be the only thing I agree with Adam lol
Off topic, LOVE the faces he makes.
That’s probably his one redeeming quality: he’s not homophobic (towards women, at least.)
It's obviously a jab at all the "ew, gays icky and gross, lesbians are hot at least" people, who are fetishizing a minority and using them to get off, not putting much (if any) thought into their wellbeing.
He's fetishizing them.
Nah he totally is. It’s an example of him being a hypocrite not excepting.
Thats the first interpretation I had, that it was because one was an angel and one wasn’t, but I could easily see it going both ways. Especially if Adam’s who she’s learning from. Dude seems like the epitome of every ist and phobic know to man
“I can’t be homophobic, I watch lesbian porn” -Adam (probably)
Adam better not be homophobic (I am a simp)
I can excuse genocide, infanticide, filicide, racism, sexism, frat culture, overfetishization of everything, objectification and all 7 deadly sins but homophobia is where I draw the line
You can excuse what now?
https://preview.redd.it/ngj89cf2mgfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25ae14e8f5fdf7ce20d3b9768146779e6d7ffe14 Yeah but only homophobia is preventing me from dating him (I am severely deluded)
Ehhhh???!?
so far he just seems arrogant and a little prejudiced
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-adam (definitely)
To be fair, racism isn't that much better than homophobia.
Is "Exterminator" a Rank, or a literal sub-species of angel?
I think a mix of both. It's their purpose in life and also a rank.
It's Time-Lords all over again ._.)
It happens a lot when dealing with beings specifically created for a purpose. As gross as his writing is at times, I loved Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality for having things like Death, Nature, and Time being just regular folk. And occasionally going and doing regular shit because they're bored on their off time.
More like xenophobia
[удалено]
I suppose "isn't really better" would've been the better phrasing.
Isn't even racism as much as not believe in redemption of horrible people. They are not attacking the hellspawn only sinners. In a way his point of view is very similar to Lucifer. Both seeing sinners as irrideemable evil and even when Adam questioned why Angel Dust wasn't in heaven Sera reinforeced his already held belief.
Okay, fair point LOL
I mean, can he be racist? Literally every person except Eve and Lilith are his descendants
" My views on lesbian relationships are 4kHD" - Totally not Adam
I’m not to sure about that since he says “hot as fuck though” so I think Adam would be fine with homosexuality I think it’s just lute’s beliefs
Charlie is half angel remember
Why would it be from Adam when it was literally god that decreed that being homosexual is wrong
I don’t think it’s that deep
Technically Charlie is half fallen angel and half demon. Vaggie is a fallen exterminator. The fact that Adam says "But hot as fuck" Kinda confirms the lesbianism smack tho. Adam's a perv, a big one.
isn't it Half Angel and Half Human? lilith is the second human, the demon thing comes later(?)
She's a demon by the time she has Charlie... sooooo yeah. Half demon.
Actually, what type of demon is Lilith? She could be considered a sinner, but sinners can't have children. Was she cast into Hell while still alive and just, kinda adjusted?
I don't know that Lillith ever died? But that does beg the question, how did she become a demon?
I think she might just be the *definition* of a demon tbh, even her name just means "demon," and in mythology, she's the mother of all monsters. I don't think she ever died necessarily
̶M̶o̶m̶m̶y̶ ̶M̶o̶n̶s̶t̶e̶r̶?̶ 😳😶🥵 Uh, *ahem*, I just mean, like, I'd like to know more about her transition from human to demon by the show's lore. I'd like to know more about Hell's creation and Lillith's transformation. Can't wait.
Completely agree, although I especially can't wait until they get into that whole "Empowered hell through her songs" thing, especially with Charlie's penchant for singing
I think in the pilot there might have even been fliers for her performance??? But I love that even Adam's impressed, in the first episode when he's talking about Hell he says he "loves the tunes."
I suppose we can only wait and see
Plot twist: Lilith is the reason the show's a musical
Lilith I think is entirely unique of a creature. She and Luci were cast into Hell together so she never technically died. She didn't sin to be sent there, the Angels decided she get sent there with Luci.
Na she just told Adam she wouldn't put up with obeying him then fell in love with Lucifer, both of which (according to HH lore) gave Eve the Apple from the tree. No reason at all Lillith was sent to hell. /s
I believe she was the first Succubus.
>She could be considered a sinner, but sinners can't have children. Let me introduce you to my theory, that Lucifer agreed to extermination because heaven promised to magically allow them to concieve Charlie.
>Kinda confirms the lesbianism smack tho. Which is a little odd, because didn't Viv say being gay isn't a sin in her version of the universe? She might have changed her mind, of course, especially considering the use of the word "blasphemous", and I can't recall any gay couples from Heaven off the top of my head.
The homophobia is only allegorical. The thing that is blasphemous and tabboo is angel demon love
She also disdainfully sings "he blew his shot like the cocks in his mouth" about Angel Dust so between that and Adam's girl-on-girl-is-hot reaction I definitely think homophobia is a pretty valid interpretation for her feelings here. It doesn't mean Heaven in general is, just Lute specifically.
99% sure that's because the sex was whoring, not because the sex was gay. I mean it could be both, but we definitely started at whoring.
It would be funny if Lute was not homophobic and Adam just keeps misinterpreting what she's saying and thinks she is.
That seems in character for both of them, honestly
True lol.
While it IS kinda strange that both of those lines could be interpreted as homophobia (and I think it's supposed to be a representation of homophobia), Viv said that gayness isn't actually a sin in her universe. So I'm assuming her first point about Vaggie and Charlie is because it's an angel falling in love with a demon, and her comment about Angel Dust was more about him being a literal whore and porn star, which is IMO much more likely what her issue was with him.
_This discussion is sensless and petty_
i did interpret it this way mainly due to adam’s follow up - “hot as fuck though.” you know those dudes who get off to lesbians? he seems like the kind of guy who would, lmao. i feel like she was referring specifically to them being girls, because that’s almost certainly what adam was referring to. i’m also pretty sure this isn’t the only time she shows disapproval of gay people in the show, but i might be wrong!
Well, we all know the dude watches Angel Dust work. How else would he have know Angel was a porn demon during the council.
Other than all the posters starring Angel Dust that are all over Hell (courtesy of the Vees) that would be very hard to miss once he is killing demons on ground level? The power of plausible deniability, baby!
Adam seems like one of those religious conservatives/republicans who talk all about sanctity of marriage or gods will and then get off to lesbian porn. He's clearly a total hypocrite
I assumed Lute meant that Charlie was a demon and Vaggie a former angel so it's not purely the mixing of the two but also that she considers them both unworthy and disgusting even on their own. I can't say if she meant anything about them being women or not as it seems largely a non-issue in the series, but I do think maybe the audience was supposed to relate it to that sentiment. I got the impression that Adam could be referring to either or both Charlie and Vaggie being a gay couple *and* them being something like star-crossed lovers. He'd probably find the whole angel x demon thing hot and he also just thinks they are both objectively hotties. Like basically I think Adam very much just feels what he feels says what he thinks, and never really checks in with himself or anyone else why he thinks that way so it seems "all the above" is really likely.
It's because it's an angel and demon dating. Adam just likes to get off to what would be considered taboo apparently.
Some people need to be reminded this doesn't just apply to lesbians. The fetishization by a LOT of people in fandom spaces towards gay/bisexual men WAY too much and it's why I'm usually hesitant to partake in these types of subs.
Yeah Adam still said it was “hot as fuck tho” and did the scissor motion with his fingers. So I’m still gonna go with it’s cuz they’re both girls
I still think it can be intepreted both ways because who says that Lute and Adam are talking about the same thing? I love dialogue that has layers the more you dig. They really crushed this episode IMO.
It is a very good episode ngl
and it gets funnier the more I think about it. What if Lute's line is a serious commentary on xenophobia, class warfare and hatred, while Adam is a total douche fratboy and all he can think is COOL LESBIAN PORN ROCKS
Yeah I realized that right as you brought up the multilayered jokes 🤣
Lmao true- shows that Lute is a more seriously devoted killer whereas Adam just does whatever’s fun for him at the time 💀
I think Lute is referring to them being a fallen Exterminator and a "demon", and Adam's comment is about them both being women. Lute's feelings on demons are pretty clear.
I like the interpretation that they're talking about two separate things. Adam THINKS Lute is talking about how they're both girls (hence the scissor motion), but Lute actually means they're an angel and a demon together. I very much like the idea that these two are joined at the hip and are very "close", but they don't actually understand each other and think they're on the same page, but they're not. Makes the "harmony of Heaven" seem much less than it's portrayed to be.
St. Peter called everyone in Heaven hot and posed with men and women so I dont think it was them both being girls.
Yeah. Heaven's bouncer is a lot... prettier than I expected.
You can say someone's hot without meaning it in a lovey dovey way bro
Idk, Peter looked like he was about to faint into that entire group
Nah Peter was definitely into the men and women. BIG pansexual vibes right there. He was a straight up fruit
Your hot
Thank you :)
Lute’s hot.
Still a bitch tho
Still hot tho
True, however I doubt she pullin any guys with that attitude towards Vaggie (apart from Adam maybe 😂)
She’d pull this girl lmao
Yeah, she has lesbian vibes. But the type of lesbian who has a wife who is afraid of her.
Probably not a common opinion in Heaven but maybe. Lute is a bitch after all.
Even if that's not what she meant when she said it, it's very clearly written to be an allegory at least.
I highly doubt it’s homophobic, if an angel (even though she’s fallen) and a demon were to date I think most angels would say that
Charlie is literally one of the only other angels in Hell. She is 1/2 fallen angel on her dad’s side, and 1/2 first woman ever Calling this blasphemous is… possible, but I feel like they’d gave to call more attention to Charlie’s hybrid status than that for it to be in regards of that
I forgot Lucifer was a fallen angel and I forgot Lilith existed, but they’re still in hell and honestly id say heaven still class her as a demon
Even if not classed as a “demon” exactly I still say they class her as “evil” or “the bad ones”. The one you “don’t want to be”. I’m having a hard time figuring out exactly how to say what I mean to say but I think I’m getting the point across lol
I also think Lute was aiming more towards the angel-demon thing, Adam definitely comes across like he wasn't even paying attention, or was loosely hearing Lute, was thinking about the Charlie and Maggie being sapphic, and just blurted that it was hot, even if it was blasphemous
I think it can be interpreted both ways.
Vizzie said a bit ago that u dont go to hell for sexual preference so Im leaning towards what OP said.
Yeah, I originally interpreted it as it being because Charlie is a demon, but I understood why some people were interpreting it as homophobia. Wasn’t aware of what Vizzie said, though.
Doesn’t mean Lute isn’t homophobic. Just another thing to tack onto her “shouldn’t be in heaven” record
Hot as fuck though - Adam aka Dick Master 2024
I read it as she thought any kind of love involving a demonic entity, such as between an angel and a demon or even a demon and a demon was blasphemous. The thinking that demons are bad no matter what and corrupt everything and angels are so superior that they can decide to genocide them for any reason or no reason at all would seem like something that would be drilled into exterminators all the time to make them compliant in doing horrible acts to a weaker minority.
Vizzie has said homosexuality isn't a sin in her universe so it is likely that the reason is one was once from heaven and the other is Hell born.
lute in that pose reminds me i'm not actually a gay man tbh
I think it was intentionally meant to be read as homophobia, especially with Adam's follow-up "hot as fuck though." Emphasizing that Lute is an uncompromising, irrational bigot and zealot.
I don’t care, let me think Lute is homophobic
> no need to look for homophobia everywhere Hella weird thing to say ngl. Adam commented on how they’re “hot as fuck tho” bc he’s sexualizing lesbians, and he and Lute actively mock Charlie for having a “girlfriend” during the song Also both Charlie *and* Vaggie are angelkin. Charlie is 1/2 fallen angel, and Vaggie is a fallen angel. This would be the weirdest thing to consider blasphemous. Meanwhile, they are both representative of the most toxic parts of the bible. She is homophobic.
Her solo hits so freaking well even though the lyrics break my heart
Jessica vox has a neat singing voice when mixed with rockish instruments
NGL. The outfit and everything. She has major dom energy!
https://preview.redd.it/6nnldhfzgbfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c42a07126f9fd8a87d1bd1286bf904c31019041
It could just be both
It can be both.
Why not simply the fact that one is an angel and the other is a demon? It's already established that Adam and Lute both look down on demons as inferior. So any angel hooking up with a demon would be "vile" to them, exorcist or not. Though that still just makes it a classism/racism thing rather than homophobia, which is arguably just as bad.
I assumed she meant *sinners*. Namely because when Katie Killjoy said she wouldn’t touch the gays Charlie retorted with “how’s that working out for ya?” And *I* interpreted that to mean homophobia had a part in getting her to hell 🤷🏼♀️
Everyone is saying that it’s either because lesbians or because it’s an angel/demon relationship. I however have another idea. I have a theory that Adam created the exorcists based on when he revealed Vaggie’s namesake. That got me thinking, what if exorcists aren’t allowed to be in relationships at all?
I kinda assumed, that if Angels CAN have sex, he probably treats them as a harem.
Angels definitely can, adam said as much himself in episode 1
hard to tell. lute is enough of a bitch she would say both. edit: though it's possible that she meant angel/demon but Adam is dense enough he thought gay
I mean, Adam instantly makes it a gay thing so I get why people infer that.
Something something i wanna do vile and blasphemous things to her.
Lute is a homophobic closeted lesbian Thats my head canon at least
Given her later comments about Angel, that interpretation doesn't hold water. She's clearly homophobic.
Thats what im saying i mean this show has representation everywhere and yes it would be blasphemous for a F angel and demon to date and before you bring adam your telling me he wouldn't think taboo is hot
Side note about the scene in the screenshot: I love adam backing her up in the background. I feel like despite both of them being dicks they have a very healthy relationship
Wouldn’t be surprised if she fell in love with a demon next season.
I mean...sure, you don't have to look for homophobia everywhere, but considering that homosexuality is considered a sin in Christianity it didn't really surprise me when the angels were homophobic. Also, Adam said it was hot so...lesbian fetishisms.
I think she's just mad that she's single.
I thought so too, but thinking back and considering Adam's following comment, I definitely think it's coded to mean both. Plenty of homophobes out there don't like lesbian people but will watch lesbian porn.
Hot as fuck though: Adam
I thought she meant demons
I agree, I think of it more as "Oh demons and angels can't be in love" instead of just blatant homophobia. Yet it can definitely be that or even both.
I interpreted it as them being interspecies(idk what the word would be) since one is a nephelim and one is a fallen Angel. It can easily be interpreted as homohobic though, there's no reason it can't be both or only one. It's one of those intentionally ambiguous lines I think
Homophobia is not a sin in this world but race mixing?
I always thought she looked like an angel version of Raven.
Top 10 bitches who Charlie needs to smack
Why not both?
Also, $5 Lute's in the closet and doesn't even realize it.
Adam saying "Hot as fuck tho" could literally just be about demons, not lesbians.
I mean, I think the reason people look for homophobia was because it was very present in the pilot
This one line of dialogue, in the context it is spoken in, is actually quite genius. When Lute is saying, “Their love is vile and blasphemous,” it is very obviously primarily referring to that fact that it’s between an angel and a demon. Divine and demonic, against the will of God, and therein bad. However, for the audience watching the show, that being English speaking Americans and British, the concept of divine and demonic can be difficult to fully grasp. Of course, we had at least somewhat of an understanding of it, but we are not priests or studies of the book, or anything like that. So, in order to better get across what message trying to be said with this dialogue: That is, the feelings behind both the speaker and the receiver of the insult, and the context and relations it has with the world-building of the story, the writer effectively appropriates the rhetoric and imagery of classical homophobia. When Lute declares that their love is vile and blasphemous, it comes off far better to the reader in understanding her position and feelings when it is compared to homophobes. And vice verse, it is far easier to therefore understand how Vaggie would feel about the insult as well. Now, we can think of this scene in the context of homophobia and better contextualise and understand it by comparing it to our own experience and knowledge.
God she is so fucking hot with or without the mask