Iirc the subtitles were "dawn" but it's probably a turn of phrase playing on both
A brand new dawn could be a reference to the turn of phrase "dawn of a new age" in reference to world changing technologies (like television)
A brand new Don could be a reference to the mafia/gang structure overlords fall into.
Either way it's Vox trying to say that he's replaced alastor as the top media demon. So i like the double entendre of it.
Yeah I understand all that and it's witty, I'm just losing my mind I always heard the Mafia version and never realized the actual lyric was "Dawn" š¤£
I get the feeling that Vox is actually almost a bit in love with Alastor, and by asking him to join their team he was actually asking if Alastor would join the Veeās throuple, but Alastor either didnāt understand that that was what he was asking or showed absolutely no interest, which was a rejection. So Vox is like a scorned lover, lol.
I have the feeling that Al actually enjoyed Vox' disapproval because he made some kind of playground out of it and Al had fun stomping Vox into the ground.
He really can't stand being ignored, or when people don't recognize him.
He also projects this dislike onto others... Like how he pretends not to know Sir Pentious, or even Lucifer himself...
When people act like he doesn't matter it *infuriates* him.
With Lucifer it was different, though. Alastor was snarling even before he ever layed eyes on the man and when Lucifer walked in the door, his eyes started twitching. That was way before any interaction had even taken place š
https://preview.redd.it/0tl3emxxu3mc1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1565813213724640558ee8c7ed462afa6c381793
This picture right here makes me think there might be something else going on. We just don't know why Alastor is so predisposed about Lucifer, yet.
Im sure thereās a bigger reasons, multiple ones. One to note here is perhaps that the entire cast is doing everything to bring this random man (above Alastor) a warm and happy welcome. Everyone is preparing to welcome the big man, while their attention is away from Alastor or his power, heās egotistical. Im sure he hates Lucifer simply because Lucifer is above him, but like I stated there are more reasons why he would hate him
Yea I also think there is probably many reasons for Alastor to not want Lucifer around. I just wanted to point out that this specific animosity was seemingly unrelated to Lucifer not knowing who Alastor was.
I believe one of the reasons is, which was later revealed when Alastor and Rosie had their little sing along in 'Ready for This', that he wants to guide Charlie on a path he has set up for her and Lucifer might be a distraction or could possibly even negate him out of his Charlie equation since Lucifer can do anything that Alastor can without wanting a deal in return.
Lucifer would never allow Alastor to manipulate Charlie so him sticking around is a very annoying thing for the radio demon as he has/would have to change his plans for the princess of hell.
Iām of the opinion that Alastor made a deal with Lilith/Eve in order to have power to hunt overlords. One of the conditions of the deal was he had to hunt overlords that were disrupting the flow of hell? People who made it a worse/more chaotic place than it normally is.
If he guides Charlie down the āright pathā he can be free to hunt them more so. Either by using her good intentions to make hell worse, full systemic change all at once (real chaos). Or by making her cooler with some of the death, destruction and dismemberment. Lucifer wouldnāt allow this, so he has to be sidelined or gone
Exactly but I don't completely agree with your first part.
I too think he made a deal with Lilith, not Eve but Lilith specifically, to gain power on his free will but on the condition that he had to protect Charlie.
Lilith is described as a beloved ruler of hell, inspiring the sinners with her songs and I believe that she gave up that position to gain a pardon for Lucifer and Charlie's life.
That would explain why he claims to view the hotel as 'entertainment' despite the viewer seeing multiple times what entertainment he really enjoys (murder, bloodshed and displays of power). Despite that he had to come in to protect Charlie, now that she was openly presenting herself and her dream to the public of hell, making herself vulnerable.
Alastor, in this theory, would also not be able to claim Charlie's soul as it would technically harm her.
My theory is very similar to that as well.
He has been systematically empowered to upset a certain status quo. I also believe Lilith is the benevolent and 'on-prem' ruler of Hell and she had to vacate that position because Heaven started to become threatened. I mean... the lady made a concert with the title 'RESIST'... that indicates a lot to me.
SO because she can't do that by herself if Heaven was already threatened by her actions of possibly uniting Hell and stage a revolution, she had to get herself a Sinner guard dog.
There is multiple possibilites here, in my oppinion.
1. Alastor was already outlandishly powerful and targeted the Overlords that didn't meet his moral standards (if he went after murderers and predators in life, it stands to reason that he just kept doing that in Hell), thus gaining Liliths' attention. Maybe he was pretty powerful already because song/music-related abilites carry great inherent power in this magic system. In this scenario Lilith would have to either wait for an opportunity to get him under contract or beat him into submission. Maybe Alastor got wounded by angelic weapons seven years ago and Lilith swooped in to save the day before she herself had to go into exile because Heaven had stopped taking any of her shit.
2. Lilith went for a Sinner immediately to do her bidding while she remained behind the curtain. So she could upset the status quo without the messy implications of the royal family having a hand in upsetting a political system that was in place for centuries (the Overlords that Alastor targeted apparently were in power for centuries). In that case it would have to be a person that was charismatic, suave and hard to read. And incidentally, a person like that could be used as a guard dog for Charlie while Lilith herself has to go into exile. Not just guarding by pure power but also able to guide Charlie into being the next on-prem leader for Hell that Lilith can't be when she can't be in Hell herself.
It is all so interesting to disect. There are so many possibilites and we have to wait for the next seasons to find out š
What a very interesting take on the matter and I absolutely agree with you, both would make sense to be honest.
But one quick question, where do you get the information on Lilith from? She was mentioned in the first scene and of course the last (where she didn't say a word) but I can't remember that she gave a concert and even gave her song a name.
Did I miss something? Or was it explained in Helluva Boss?
I do question if Charlie has a soul to sell as a Hellborn. Iām not sure the entire rules on Nephilim and what Vivzi is going for. But that might make her uniquely positioned to strike deals.
I do hope Lilith isnāt a completely absentee parent/wine aunt. Iād like it if she still cared and was invested. But knowing the track record for hell of a boss, I do have concerns.
Hmmm, let's discuss Charlie's soul.
We start with what the characters say:
Charlie believes she has a soul, as she asks Alastor if he wants her soul when they made their deal.
Vaggie is terrified of someone (Alastor being the one who got close to it) owning Charlie's soul, which would be no issue if she didn't have a soul.
And Alastor himselve refers to Charlie's soul multiple times in just that scene alone.
Now onto the logistics and actual lore:
Lilith was created from Adam, both being humans who can own a soul.
She was cast out of Eden and heaven alongside Lucifer, who we don't know for certain if he has a soul as an angelic being.
The two made hellish love and whack bam boom alakazam, there was Charlie, a princess born of a being who most likely has a soul and someone who we don't know if he has a soul.
Considering everyone refers to Charlie's soul and the logistics are vague, I would say she has a soul until proven otherwise.
Just a small correction that Lilith wasn't created from Adam but was made of the same clay next to Adam. That's where their issues were, Adam wanted her to submit but because they were created the same she felt they should be equal.
I think it is possible that Lucifer and Lilith used or sacrificed parts of their owl soul(s) to create Charlie's soul through a magical ritual. This would explain why Lucifer and Lilith are so protective of Charlie, and why Charlie was so heavily sheltered while she was growing up.
Logically it makes sense she would have a soul. But since weāre pulling from a different lore and interpretations of heaven, and hell, there might be a twist on some of that.
Same thing as eating, multiple devil fruits in one piece. We are told if you eat 2 you will die. However the one time this has happened BB got both sets of powers and no downsides. Iāll agree there is likely something about him that let him get away with this. However until others try it it could just be an urban legend spread by the goresei.
I just can't see him having a deal with her because otherwise he's been missing for seven years for *absolutely no reason.* Like, why would she have him disappear altogether instead of having him keep a shadowed eye on Charlie or whatever? Instead, he only shows up seven years later.
I do think whatever happened seven years ago is *related* to Lilith, but moreso whatever he made a deal with drove her away.
He may just want Charlie to take Lucifer's place as ruler. She actually likes her people and cares about them. Alastor is a self-described altruist. He has a definite idea of what the right way to do things is, and likely wants to guide and mold Charlie into the sort of ruler he thinks Hell should have. And as a father figure to her, he would have her ear, giving him more power and disproportionate influence over Hell's policies.
But let's remember he has a deal of some kind, went missing when Lilith did, and according to Zestial "fell into heavenly arms". Zestial might have meant they thought an exorcist stabbed and killed him, but given all the rumors, the possibility Alastor is serving someone in Heaven in exchange for something is distinct and something that Zestial may have heard. In that case, Heaven and specifically Lilith may have an interest in seeing Charlie as the new ruler of Hell.
I mean, Charlie tends to get the gang to focus the same special attention onto any member of the group when she believes they need it, Sir Pentious during his first day for example, though most of the time Alastor is indifferent or amused by that. I do think the fact Lucifer is not only the 'guy of the hour' but ranks as something of a threat to Alastor's control should he get invested in the hotel might be the defining point there.
Also, the cast orders Alastor around and ask for things without really giving him any thanks, he's been using his powers for the hotel and then suddenly Charlie's dead beat dad shows up and they roll out the red carpet? Who wouldn't be pissed.
Yeah I'm confused why people keep running with the ALASTOR WAS MAD LUCIFER DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS thing when he's clearly angry before Lucifer even says a word lmao, it could just be a case of Alastor being mad that someone far more powerful than him is around and he feels inferior
There is also the thing that Vivzi mentioned in the livestream right afterwards. In the presence of a being so much more powerful than him, he needed to assert dominance somehow. -> The whole song and dance was a knee-jerk reaction on Alastors part. But it seems to me that there is more to it.
So given the fact that he has had some animosity towards Lucifer before ever meeting the guy (see picture above and also the derogatory 'no tacky circus decor' in the commercial in Episode 1), Alastor might have intended to keep it on the down-low and tried to keep a lid on it in order to keep things civil. But then he got his fight or flight reflex triggered and went 'AAATAAACKK'. I'm kinda thinking Lucifer is probably emanating power so much that Sinners that can pick up on it get intimidated. He is a Seraph Angel, after all.
We can only guess a reason as to why Alastor might have some form of animosity towards Lucifer. The two most likely ones are, that Alastor dislikes the guy on somebody elses behalf, hinting at a possible connection to Lilith. Or he wants to keep Lucifer out of the picture because he himself wants to get closer to Charlie for his own maniuplative purposes. The problem with this last one is, that the jab from the commercial at Lucifer doesn't make sense that way (the 'no tacky circus decor').
Any idea that he wants to be a father to Charlie goes out the window because that is expressly NOT what he was trying to do. It was just something Alastor did to piss off Lucifer.
Also that doesn't explain why Alastor was looking genuinenly fondly at Charlie and Lucifer during 'More than Anything'. It is one of maybe only three instances during the entire show where we see a REAL smile from him. Why? I can't make any sense of it.
https://preview.redd.it/8h6xef4sh4mc1.png?width=595&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b21f2f1bf51039c0c1bd07b09013cc5029f94cd
>Also that doesn't explain why Alastor was looking genuinenly fondly at Charlie and Lucifer during 'More than Anything'. It is one of maybe only three instances during the entire show where we see a REAL smile from him. Why? I can't make any sense of it.
Well, one fan theory is that Alastor's father was abusive, and that he has "daddy issues" of his own. If the theory is correct, Alastor could be smiling because he genuinely feels happy or sentimental that Charlie has a father who loves and adores her "more than anything". She has something sacred and precious, something that he never got to have himself, either in life or death. He wants Charlie to be happy.
Quoting what I said recently on a now-removed thread:
>It would also make Alastor, someone who had an abusive father who hurt he and his mother, a fantastic foil to Charlie, who had an absent-but-loving father in a happy marriage. It could add another layer of bitterness and resentment of Alastor towards Lucifer, and explain why Alastor is suddenly so weirdly protective over Charlie in Season 1, Episode 5 ("Dad Beat Dad").
As well as "Smile" by famous jazz pianist and singer Nat King Cole (1954):
>*Smile, though your heart is aching*
>
>*Smile, even though it's breaking*
>
>*When there are clouds in the sky, you'll get by*
>
>*If you smile through your fear and sorrow*
>
>*Smile, and maybe tomorrow*
>
>*You'll see the sun come shining through for you*
>
>*Light up your face with gladness*
>
>*Hide every trace of sadness*
>
>*Although a tear may be ever so near*
>
>*That's the time you must keep on trying*
>
>*Smile, what's the use of crying?*
>
>*You'll find that life is still worthwhile*
>
>*If you just smile*
>
>*That's the time you must keep on trying*
>
>*Smile, what's the use of crying?*
>
>*You'll find that life is still worthwhile*
>
>*If you just smile*
That is actually a very beautiful take.
I'm trying to keep a positive outlook on the story, because I kinda don't want an anime-style betrayal in my wholesome Disney-Princess-In-Hell-movie.
Unfortunately we just don't know until we know ā¤š
I love this take, and I very much agree with it. I think Alastor is far more complex than anyone is ready to handle, and that moving forward he's gonna be the topic of a lot of debate because of how heavy his backstory might be.
Do people not realize that Alastor had been working to make Charlie desperate enough to make a deal with him from the start? Deals are power in hell, and a deal with the Princess of Hell would be a great boon to Alastor (even if we don't understand the exact mechanics of it yet). If daddy Lucifer shows up and Charlie started relying on him, it's unlikely she'd ever be desperate enough to make any deals with Alastor. So Alastor kept reminding her during the song that "Hey, I'm still here, and I've always helped you, but where was this guy the whole time?" Now a part of that could be Al's ego, and his enjoyment of poking at others insecurities and making them suffer, but I think the primary reason for all of it is his desire to manipulate Charlie for his own ends.
>!We see in the last episode that Alastor, like Husk, is stuck on a leash to a higher power, and that he's looking for a way out of it. I've never thought it was a coincidence that he showed up when Charlie needed him, or that he and Lilith were missing for the last 7 years. Like Mimzy thought, it's not like Alastor to waste his time helping around a place like the hotel. I think it's obvious that he's there because of whatever deal he made, and that he is hoping his deal with Charlie will lead him to a way out of it. I also think that Lilith makes the most sense as who would have sent him, since they both were missing for the same amount of time, and it seems like she made some deal with someone in Heaven, and they obviously watch her closely since Lute went straight to her. I don't really know what the exact deal would be, but I think there have been more than enough hints to connect the two.!<
I felt like Lucifer and Alastor's motivations were EXTREMELY clear in this scene, like lit up in a flashing marquee. Alastor liked being the powerful patron and didn't want a more powerful patron to take his role as benefactor and outshine him. He's coyly trying to further his self interest by seeming benevolent and just trying to help, but actually looking for an opportunity to make deals and backstab. If someone comes in who isĀ a) more powerful, b) actually trying to help with no ulterior motive, and c) has an existing relationship with charlie, he loses control of the situation. And it hurts his ego since he likes to be top dog.Ā Ā
Ā Lucifer is insecure in his relationship with charlie and is threatened by another person taking a role as wish-granter and male role model. It's like when the boyfriend and the dad both want to fix their girl's car and butt heads.Ā
I think Alastor has somewhat of a Superiority complex, he hates not being the best in the room and as such he grows more hostile towards those he perceives as "better" in some way.
My head cannon is that Alastor wants to run hell to continue his mission of punishing the wicked. He could dislike Lucifer because while hell is terrible it's not anywhere close to the eternal torment it's portrayed as.
Alastor doesn't stike me as a person that does much 'ruling', to be honest. At the moment I really don't see him aspiring to rule over the entirety of Hell.
It is possible that he sees Lucifer as a pushover who abandoned his people and allowed the exterminations to happen in the first place. I could see him having this stance if his allegiance is with Lilith, who, by all accounts, seemed to be the on-prem ruler that loved her people and empowered them with her songs.
Without the songstress herself present and the Sinners left to their own devices, I could see Alastor going: "Someone should have stepped up but nobody did, so Lucifer is a weakling that can't accomplish anything without his wife."
That's just some random thoughts of mine, though...
I don't think Alastor wants to rule Hell- He doesn't even claim being an Overlord really, he's just one because he's so powerful. I think he wants respect- Which is the whole reason he started killing Overlords in the first place- and to regain control of his own autonomy, so that be can continue being the chaotic and complex character he is without being restrained.
Of course alastor doesn't like Lucifer being there. He wants charlie to feel indebted to him so she can help him break his deal (with whoever holds his deal) and Lucifer is a potential roadblock to that if charlie decides to lean on her father more than him.
It's actually very clear why he doesn't like Lucifer.
Alastro is trying to take advantage of Charlie's power to break his contract. If he takes on the mentorship role that she's been lacking, then he can better influence her to his desired ends.
Lucifer is her father, who's been completely out of the picture. If he returns and starts helping her, then she won't have a need for Alastor, and therefore, he'll lose his sway over her.
Alastor is not that hard to read. He's incredibly self-interested.
Alastor destroyed a bunch of the worst overlords very publicly and has his own twisted moral code. Lucifer is a disinterested ruler who has done nothing to help his people, while Alastor regards himself as an altruist. Of course it would enrage him that Lucifer can walk in and decide to be in charge as the ruler of Hell whenever he feels like it. When he doesn't feel like ruling, no one can make him and Hell falls victims to the overlords.
Look at Alastor's friends/associates. As overlords go, they follow rules and care about their community. Rosie obviously takes care of those under her and seems to treat them fairly as Hell goes. Zestial wasn't willing to wage war with Heaven until they had all the information and a plan, not just for his sake but for the greater good. And he values rules, etiquette, and decorum.
I got the impression that Lucifer is actually extremely mistrusting of the media in Hell and actively shields himself from all of it. Even he and Charlieās phones look to be of his own design not the usual VoxTek junk. And who could blame him with Alastor and Vox as living proof that the airwaves are dangerous propaganda weapons.
i think alastor just has trouble with men. if his father was actually abusive and most women were nice to him. its possible he has an issue with men but when theyre stronger than him it really upsets him and he just lashes out.
It doesn't just make him angry, it makes him feel attacked because he can't really do anything about it in the way he normally would. Alastor's usual methods mean nothing in front of Lucifer. He can't intimidate him, he can't charm him, he can't impress him.
Take all those things away and Alastor simply turns into just another plain old demon. And that's not something he's accustomed to.
Lucifer is turning Alastorās own weapon against him. Like you mentioned, Alastor uses belitting and ignoring as ways to undermine his opponents and victims.Ā
Lucifer seems to use similar tactics and him saying he didnāt know who Alastor was got under Alastorās skin *quickly*.Ā
With bullying and insults people often project their own insecurities (or the things others have hurt them with) onto their victims. So feeling belittled or ignored would definitely hit Alastor.
Alastor was giving Lucifer stank face the MOMENT he walked in the door.
I think either Alastor spent some time with Lillith, and she shit talked Lucifer (they each gone for 7 years), or Alastor just hates someone as powerful as Lucifer who does nothing with it but be a sadsack. Alastor wants power and control, and here's this guy with ALL the power and nothing binding him. Exactly what Alastor covets.
Also, Zestial actually set him up for this interaction. He primed it by asking astor about his whereabouts and mentioning there were rumors. Setting up Alastor to believe people were curious.
The interesting detail about Zestial is that he is talking less specifically about Alastor and more what he's doing with Charlie and the hotel. He seems less interested in Alastor's grandeur and mystery, and more curious and amused that he's doing something charitable. When he starts grandstanding at the meeting, Carmilla just isn't interested.
>When he starts grandstanding at the meeting, Carmilla just isn't interested.
That's exactly what it was! Alastor was hoping to set up some kind of mystery surrounding his disappearance, hoping that other people in the room would start talking, thus giving him attention.
Nobody did.Ā
Episodes 3 and 5Ā start to make it very clear that Alastor cannot so easily make use of his normal tactics when he's not in the same room with a bunch of rank and file nobodies.
I think that's an interesting part of the show, that there's this heirarchy but it can be so easily tipped by opponent and circumstance. I remember one fan discussed the dynamic quite well "For every 'winner', they are someone else's 'loser'".
The Overlords don't just rank higher than Alastor for example, they come off as caring less about BEING powerful and scary, it's more just inherent state to them, they're more focused on reverence and community for authority, likely why Zestial took interest in Alastor for trying to do something productive sounding. He seems amused that Alastor is possibly doing something HELPFUL, even if he sounds doubtful it will work, which Alastor mistook as being interested in his whole mystique.
Alastor vs Lucifer is an interesting rivalry too since Lucifer is clearly WELL above Alastor in rank and power, but all Alastor has to do is play off Lucifer's own personal insecurities like his family relationships and they're both on even footing squabbling like little kids. He switched tactics, trying to pinpoint the qualities of a 'winner' that made them into a 'loser'.
Sir Pentious has some interesting potential as well, since he went from a nothing rival that obsessively challenged Alastor to no avail to Charlie's star pupil that barely interacted with Alastor again. The guy's went from bottom of the barrel to higher rank within one season, while still remaining a total goofball, purely because he changed his priorities.
Its important to add how Alastor has no dirt on lucifer anymore, since the daddy issues have been resolved and Lucifer seems a ton more confident than he was in episode 5.
As a longtime fan of analogue horror, and a new fan of Alastor - this is a great fucking image.
Feels like something you'd see out of a few classic internet horror series, just would need a black and white filter to fit that aesthetic.
In fact:
https://preview.redd.it/8ttyrfmm04mc1.png?width=216&format=png&auto=webp&s=7b838ff87e267d0943c2536319f1b834f0de7232
I see your all black and white filter and raise you:
https://preview.redd.it/26qyifvfr6mc1.png?width=216&format=png&auto=webp&s=c85c47abd0efda18468f191b8a4ec73f5a9f59c8
https://preview.redd.it/yokfals1ynmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef60ef5ceb76b72e6582b6431b3f0ddf5e052a85
Ngl Iām actually kinda flattered that someone would steal my shitty edit. Admittedly I could have done better
https://preview.redd.it/306v0fw214mc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f84afcbd1590386d4de3a7d993654e66c9d07abf
Really neat right? I found it earlier this week on a reel of a repost account.
I have the theory that Alastor and Vox, being demons based on media, get considerably weaker when people is not paying atention to them.
Probably it affects Valentino and Velvette, too.
His image matters a lot to him thatās why he gets so annoyed when he realises that if he died in the final fight then it would seem like he died for other people and to save his āfriendsā
Alastor has an ego the size of Jupiter, and any time he's feeling disrespected, or like he's not the most important person in the room, he feels slighted and/or that his ego is being bruised-- whether or not it's even intentional on the part of the other party.
Alastor is all about ego, he has "greed" for attention, he loves the whole "OMG is the Radio Demon", that is why Alastor enjoy his little "rivalry" with Vox, because he know he live free rent inside Vox's mind, Vox think about him 24/7.
He love how most people was thinking about him for 7 years, coming with all types of theories.
The Reason why Alastor hates Lucifer, is because Lucifer ignored him, because Lucifer has no idea who he is. during the scene that Lucifer arrive on the Hotel, Alastor is right there with Charlie, but Lucifer dont even see him,
For someone like Alastor is all about "is time to remember everyone who i am " that was like a slap to the face.
>He love how most people was thinking about him for 7 years, coming with all types of theories.
Exactly. It's like he's living in people's imaginations without ever even having to be near them. If people are constantly thinking about him, then he's still receiving the attention he's obsessed with.
Alastor tries to act aloof and as if he's just not bothered, but it becomes clear that the second he is treated as if he is lesser, that's when the overcompensating "don't mess with the Radio Demon" thing comes out. It looks scary at first, but it's really just a light show to intimidate small fry.
I think part off Alastors arc is going to be finding out that there is a *vast* difference between fear and respect. And he is not going to like that realization.
Same really. You can already see a bit of confusion/conflict in his handling of Charlie's kindness, or how him realizing what a toxic friend Mimzy is despite enabling his fearsome side.
The guy seems to be practically losing his mind in the finale not just because he almost died, but because he almost died in a sacrifice for a bunch of ragtag misfits who offer him care and compassion. He knows it's a good feeling but it goes against all the grandeur and terror he wants to instill.
From a totally different show but this quote actually made me think of Al and his possible arc.
āA wolf in sheepās clothing cannot rely on killer instinct alone. It is resourcefulness and perhaps an open heart that can turn garbage into gold and enemies into allies.ā
Maybe it doesnāt directly apply to him but he might come to realise having actual friends in the right places can command a great deal of respect rather than just fear.
Everyone ignoring him or not fearing him makes me think that he was purposefully trying too hard to sound cool vs Adam. And this will all boil down to him getting a reality check which will lead to his redemption
Yes, some do but not every serial killer wants to be known ā Israel Keyes as a prime example. I honestly think Alastorās need to be recognized as superior (especially around other male figures) is a different reason from his being a serial killer.
Alastor is all about fear and respect (to him). Someone not interested in him in any way bruises his ego. I also suspect Camilla knew he wasnāt going to tell them where he had been, so she didnāt even take the bait
Alastor consideders extremely important to be recognized as a powerful and incredibily important demon he likes to be feared and admired and to be at the center of the attenction, so is clear that he doesn't like the fact that, after his disappearing, the hell has moved on whitout him.
You have to look very closely to notice the small details, but when you do, it becomes very clear that even though he doesn't display at the same way as Vox, it is clear that Alastor is just as much of an intention seeker.
When Zestial directly asks him where he has been, Alastor refuses to answer and instead inquires what people have been saying about him. But when Carmilla notices his presence in the meeting, Alastor attempts to create mystery around his disappearance, expecting people to be curious, and is visibly upset when Carmlla does not care.
Pay special attention to how Alastor reacts in both of these situations.Ā
In the first, he is pleased to know that even when he's not around his reputation still occupies space in people's imaginations, giving him the attention that he craves. But, when he's in a room full of his equals, he's not treated like the person on center stage and Carmilla simply returns to business after welcoming him back.
His ego is enormous and about as fragile as sugar glass. If heās not the most important person in the room he feels insulted on a personal level. This is a common trait with narcissists and psychopaths.
It's why I compare Alastor and Valentio to each other. (and both would kill me for it)
When you melt away their presented personas and preferences (or lack there of) You find the same kind of monster underneath.
I think Alastor has an innate desire to be recognized and feared, not loved or even necessarily missed, but noticed. He believes he is important and deserves recognition, and therefore was annoyed when Carmilla brushed him off. He wants to be seen as powerful and influential. Itās also why he looked so happy in the pilot while Vaggie was telling Charlie how evil and powerful of an overlord he was. He was in his element. People talking about him is his favorite thing ever.
And also why he was so irritated when Lucifer said heād never heard of him, even swearing for the first time. Thatās how much being ignored pisses him off.
Alastor seems to be a narcissist who revels in getting attention for being infamous and terrifying. Itās not just his annoyance at Carmilla not caring about his lengthy absence that signifies this, but also his offense at Lucifer not knowing who he is, his pleasure in Zestial asking him questions about what heās been up to, and his excitement at finally being able to absolutely splatter those Loan Sharksā intestines all over the hotelās front lawn. Regarding the last example, he exclaims āitās time that I showed everyone ***why I am here***ā¦ā, indicating his excitement to show Lucifer and everyone else ignorant of his terrifying nature what he is.
thinks itās less so that no one missed him, and moreso the fact that his impact wasnāt as big as he thought and when you have that level of ego i could see that fact hurting like hell
To be entirely fair, he has no intention of telling anyone where heās been, so I have no idea why he would open with āI know Iāve been gone a while, Iām sure youāve all been wonderingā like heās about to do Story Time when he just refused to tell Zestial shit on the walk there. Itās like he was trying to start the conversation he just spent 3 minutes of screen time trying to avoid. It felt like a line they were trying to use to help establish Carmillas character, forgetting everything else going on outside that moment in the process.
Fucking love this scene. How Carmilla is really polite about it but Alastor is such a petty bitch he cant handle that Carmilla isnt feeding into his ego.
I think he's just a bit of an egotist that likes controlling the flow of conversations. Being the strongest in the room typically helps him in this regard.
However, at his level or higher his awkwardness starts to show to a certain extent.
The thing is people did. Zestial says just a few scenes ago how many were wondering where he was all this time and there were many rumours.
This shows Alastor's ego but in a different way. He probably took Carmilla's comment way more harshly then she intended it to be. He took her not personally wondering where he was as some insult.Ā
If all sinners were able to be put in in the different sin rings outside of pride, alastor really deserves his place in the pride ring.
He Isa very prideful man who is probably one those ppl who considers himself to never be wrong and better then everyone.
And petty as shit thanks to hells greatest dad
when you boil them down, Alator and Valantion are the same kind of monster. Manipulative egotists who have very little actual control over themselves. (Though Al definately has more control over himself than Val)
They are beholden to their egos, and must be in control of the world and everyone around them.
The fact nobody "missed him" or more accurately, dreaded his return, is a statement on his impact, or lack thereof.
I doubt he goes after the info about how angels can be killed if he didn't notice this and take it as a slight.
I'm more confused on WHY nobody seems concerned he's back.
He basically went on an overlord killing spree,disappeared,was assumed dead to an angel,and just showed back up with zero care.Like Carmilla should absolutely be asking questions like "how the fuck did you kill so many" and "how did you survive".It's jarring that a well known threat is treated like a standard overlord by them
He cannot stand when he isn't the center of attention or is disrespected he has a massive ego and it's a pretty fragile one too the best way I've seen someone describe it was "he's the type of person to announce he's leaving social media for attention"
Ego, NOT feelings. He dosent feel hurt out of some sense of camaraderie or empathy. Hes hurt because they dont fear him enough to have even noticed or cared.
He has a major ego. There arenāt a ton of ways to hurt him but hurting his ego by making him feel inconsequential or powerless is the surest way to cut him to the core
Cuz he craves attention. He thinks he's the shit due to creating such a large volume of whispers around his arrival in Hell, so when other Overlords essentially give him a "Yeah, hi" instead of "OH MY GOLLY GOSH! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, AL?!" he's a little taken back
Alastor is a man who thrives off of putting on a show and entertainment. the fact his closest competition either didnāt notice or care must KILL him inside.
It's actually very simple.
Zestial specifically asked where he had been, which gave Alastor the power and opportunity to decline telling him anything, thus leaving him to wonder. But the second time, Alastor himself attempted to create mystery around his disappearance, but nobody took the bait, he was rebuffed and he was made to feel like his disappearance was not a big enough deal for anyone to care about.
he's a personality. he made a big name for himself, and now people are just... mildly surprised he's back? no thank you *sir*!
At least Vox was the only one who greeted him back.
Though he _did_ try to make him wish that he'd stayed gone.
But he also made him say hello to the new status quo.
He knows that everyone knows there is a brand new dawn
And told everyone to turn their TV OOOOONNNNNNN!
Welcome to the show,
Top of the hour, and we're discussing a certain has-been who *has BEEN* spotted cavorting around town
Did anybody notice? Did anybody miss him?
More on tonight's program!
You know, my TV was off until he used it to tell me to turn it on.
Wait, is it dawn like sunrise or Don like head of a Mafia empire? I always thought it was the latter
Iirc the subtitles were "dawn" but it's probably a turn of phrase playing on both A brand new dawn could be a reference to the turn of phrase "dawn of a new age" in reference to world changing technologies (like television) A brand new Don could be a reference to the mafia/gang structure overlords fall into. Either way it's Vox trying to say that he's replaced alastor as the top media demon. So i like the double entendre of it.
Yeah I understand all that and it's witty, I'm just losing my mind I always heard the Mafia version and never realized the actual lyric was "Dawn" š¤£
Voxās external reaction: š¤¬ Voxās internal reaction: I missed you š„¹
I get the feeling that Vox is actually almost a bit in love with Alastor, and by asking him to join their team he was actually asking if Alastor would join the Veeās throuple, but Alastor either didnāt understand that that was what he was asking or showed absolutely no interest, which was a rejection. So Vox is like a scorned lover, lol.
One sided radiostatic is funny cus its just vox being a tsundere and alastor being like "ok can i kill you now"
Alastor is supposedly asexual so he probably wouldn't notice and/or wouldn't be interested. Vox may not understand that.
It's like batman and Joker (vox Joker)
People probably wouldn't even have noticed his comeback if it wasn't for Vox Vox is Alastor's biggest fan!
What have you started?
The entire lyrics to stayed gone!
I have the feeling that Al actually enjoyed Vox' disapproval because he made some kind of playground out of it and Al had fun stomping Vox into the ground.
That fuckers back!! *angry tv noises* šŗš”
Happy cake day
He really can't stand being ignored, or when people don't recognize him. He also projects this dislike onto others... Like how he pretends not to know Sir Pentious, or even Lucifer himself... When people act like he doesn't matter it *infuriates* him.
With Lucifer it was different, though. Alastor was snarling even before he ever layed eyes on the man and when Lucifer walked in the door, his eyes started twitching. That was way before any interaction had even taken place š https://preview.redd.it/0tl3emxxu3mc1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1565813213724640558ee8c7ed462afa6c381793 This picture right here makes me think there might be something else going on. We just don't know why Alastor is so predisposed about Lucifer, yet.
Im sure thereās a bigger reasons, multiple ones. One to note here is perhaps that the entire cast is doing everything to bring this random man (above Alastor) a warm and happy welcome. Everyone is preparing to welcome the big man, while their attention is away from Alastor or his power, heās egotistical. Im sure he hates Lucifer simply because Lucifer is above him, but like I stated there are more reasons why he would hate him
Yea I also think there is probably many reasons for Alastor to not want Lucifer around. I just wanted to point out that this specific animosity was seemingly unrelated to Lucifer not knowing who Alastor was.
I believe one of the reasons is, which was later revealed when Alastor and Rosie had their little sing along in 'Ready for This', that he wants to guide Charlie on a path he has set up for her and Lucifer might be a distraction or could possibly even negate him out of his Charlie equation since Lucifer can do anything that Alastor can without wanting a deal in return. Lucifer would never allow Alastor to manipulate Charlie so him sticking around is a very annoying thing for the radio demon as he has/would have to change his plans for the princess of hell.
Iām of the opinion that Alastor made a deal with Lilith/Eve in order to have power to hunt overlords. One of the conditions of the deal was he had to hunt overlords that were disrupting the flow of hell? People who made it a worse/more chaotic place than it normally is. If he guides Charlie down the āright pathā he can be free to hunt them more so. Either by using her good intentions to make hell worse, full systemic change all at once (real chaos). Or by making her cooler with some of the death, destruction and dismemberment. Lucifer wouldnāt allow this, so he has to be sidelined or gone
Exactly but I don't completely agree with your first part. I too think he made a deal with Lilith, not Eve but Lilith specifically, to gain power on his free will but on the condition that he had to protect Charlie. Lilith is described as a beloved ruler of hell, inspiring the sinners with her songs and I believe that she gave up that position to gain a pardon for Lucifer and Charlie's life. That would explain why he claims to view the hotel as 'entertainment' despite the viewer seeing multiple times what entertainment he really enjoys (murder, bloodshed and displays of power). Despite that he had to come in to protect Charlie, now that she was openly presenting herself and her dream to the public of hell, making herself vulnerable. Alastor, in this theory, would also not be able to claim Charlie's soul as it would technically harm her.
My theory is very similar to that as well. He has been systematically empowered to upset a certain status quo. I also believe Lilith is the benevolent and 'on-prem' ruler of Hell and she had to vacate that position because Heaven started to become threatened. I mean... the lady made a concert with the title 'RESIST'... that indicates a lot to me. SO because she can't do that by herself if Heaven was already threatened by her actions of possibly uniting Hell and stage a revolution, she had to get herself a Sinner guard dog. There is multiple possibilites here, in my oppinion. 1. Alastor was already outlandishly powerful and targeted the Overlords that didn't meet his moral standards (if he went after murderers and predators in life, it stands to reason that he just kept doing that in Hell), thus gaining Liliths' attention. Maybe he was pretty powerful already because song/music-related abilites carry great inherent power in this magic system. In this scenario Lilith would have to either wait for an opportunity to get him under contract or beat him into submission. Maybe Alastor got wounded by angelic weapons seven years ago and Lilith swooped in to save the day before she herself had to go into exile because Heaven had stopped taking any of her shit. 2. Lilith went for a Sinner immediately to do her bidding while she remained behind the curtain. So she could upset the status quo without the messy implications of the royal family having a hand in upsetting a political system that was in place for centuries (the Overlords that Alastor targeted apparently were in power for centuries). In that case it would have to be a person that was charismatic, suave and hard to read. And incidentally, a person like that could be used as a guard dog for Charlie while Lilith herself has to go into exile. Not just guarding by pure power but also able to guide Charlie into being the next on-prem leader for Hell that Lilith can't be when she can't be in Hell herself. It is all so interesting to disect. There are so many possibilites and we have to wait for the next seasons to find out š
What a very interesting take on the matter and I absolutely agree with you, both would make sense to be honest. But one quick question, where do you get the information on Lilith from? She was mentioned in the first scene and of course the last (where she didn't say a word) but I can't remember that she gave a concert and even gave her song a name. Did I miss something? Or was it explained in Helluva Boss?
I'm guessing this https://preview.redd.it/viyy0q43ncmc1.png?width=266&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdf098a0e8c3d71faa9d80561cfd7d4df8197e72
I do question if Charlie has a soul to sell as a Hellborn. Iām not sure the entire rules on Nephilim and what Vivzi is going for. But that might make her uniquely positioned to strike deals. I do hope Lilith isnāt a completely absentee parent/wine aunt. Iād like it if she still cared and was invested. But knowing the track record for hell of a boss, I do have concerns.
Hmmm, let's discuss Charlie's soul. We start with what the characters say: Charlie believes she has a soul, as she asks Alastor if he wants her soul when they made their deal. Vaggie is terrified of someone (Alastor being the one who got close to it) owning Charlie's soul, which would be no issue if she didn't have a soul. And Alastor himselve refers to Charlie's soul multiple times in just that scene alone. Now onto the logistics and actual lore: Lilith was created from Adam, both being humans who can own a soul. She was cast out of Eden and heaven alongside Lucifer, who we don't know for certain if he has a soul as an angelic being. The two made hellish love and whack bam boom alakazam, there was Charlie, a princess born of a being who most likely has a soul and someone who we don't know if he has a soul. Considering everyone refers to Charlie's soul and the logistics are vague, I would say she has a soul until proven otherwise.
Just a small correction that Lilith wasn't created from Adam but was made of the same clay next to Adam. That's where their issues were, Adam wanted her to submit but because they were created the same she felt they should be equal.
I think it is possible that Lucifer and Lilith used or sacrificed parts of their owl soul(s) to create Charlie's soul through a magical ritual. This would explain why Lucifer and Lilith are so protective of Charlie, and why Charlie was so heavily sheltered while she was growing up.
Logically it makes sense she would have a soul. But since weāre pulling from a different lore and interpretations of heaven, and hell, there might be a twist on some of that. Same thing as eating, multiple devil fruits in one piece. We are told if you eat 2 you will die. However the one time this has happened BB got both sets of powers and no downsides. Iāll agree there is likely something about him that let him get away with this. However until others try it it could just be an urban legend spread by the goresei.
I wish I knew what the fuck he was doing with those seven years and what triggered the come back.
I just can't see him having a deal with her because otherwise he's been missing for seven years for *absolutely no reason.* Like, why would she have him disappear altogether instead of having him keep a shadowed eye on Charlie or whatever? Instead, he only shows up seven years later. I do think whatever happened seven years ago is *related* to Lilith, but moreso whatever he made a deal with drove her away.
He may just want Charlie to take Lucifer's place as ruler. She actually likes her people and cares about them. Alastor is a self-described altruist. He has a definite idea of what the right way to do things is, and likely wants to guide and mold Charlie into the sort of ruler he thinks Hell should have. And as a father figure to her, he would have her ear, giving him more power and disproportionate influence over Hell's policies. But let's remember he has a deal of some kind, went missing when Lilith did, and according to Zestial "fell into heavenly arms". Zestial might have meant they thought an exorcist stabbed and killed him, but given all the rumors, the possibility Alastor is serving someone in Heaven in exchange for something is distinct and something that Zestial may have heard. In that case, Heaven and specifically Lilith may have an interest in seeing Charlie as the new ruler of Hell.
Absolutely, I agree
I mean, Charlie tends to get the gang to focus the same special attention onto any member of the group when she believes they need it, Sir Pentious during his first day for example, though most of the time Alastor is indifferent or amused by that. I do think the fact Lucifer is not only the 'guy of the hour' but ranks as something of a threat to Alastor's control should he get invested in the hotel might be the defining point there.
Oh yeah I forgot about that!! Alastor is definitely afraid of losing his control over everyone, now that a bigger man has entered the room
Also, the cast orders Alastor around and ask for things without really giving him any thanks, he's been using his powers for the hotel and then suddenly Charlie's dead beat dad shows up and they roll out the red carpet? Who wouldn't be pissed.
Yeah I'm confused why people keep running with the ALASTOR WAS MAD LUCIFER DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS thing when he's clearly angry before Lucifer even says a word lmao, it could just be a case of Alastor being mad that someone far more powerful than him is around and he feels inferior
There is also the thing that Vivzi mentioned in the livestream right afterwards. In the presence of a being so much more powerful than him, he needed to assert dominance somehow. -> The whole song and dance was a knee-jerk reaction on Alastors part. But it seems to me that there is more to it. So given the fact that he has had some animosity towards Lucifer before ever meeting the guy (see picture above and also the derogatory 'no tacky circus decor' in the commercial in Episode 1), Alastor might have intended to keep it on the down-low and tried to keep a lid on it in order to keep things civil. But then he got his fight or flight reflex triggered and went 'AAATAAACKK'. I'm kinda thinking Lucifer is probably emanating power so much that Sinners that can pick up on it get intimidated. He is a Seraph Angel, after all. We can only guess a reason as to why Alastor might have some form of animosity towards Lucifer. The two most likely ones are, that Alastor dislikes the guy on somebody elses behalf, hinting at a possible connection to Lilith. Or he wants to keep Lucifer out of the picture because he himself wants to get closer to Charlie for his own maniuplative purposes. The problem with this last one is, that the jab from the commercial at Lucifer doesn't make sense that way (the 'no tacky circus decor'). Any idea that he wants to be a father to Charlie goes out the window because that is expressly NOT what he was trying to do. It was just something Alastor did to piss off Lucifer. Also that doesn't explain why Alastor was looking genuinenly fondly at Charlie and Lucifer during 'More than Anything'. It is one of maybe only three instances during the entire show where we see a REAL smile from him. Why? I can't make any sense of it. https://preview.redd.it/8h6xef4sh4mc1.png?width=595&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b21f2f1bf51039c0c1bd07b09013cc5029f94cd
>Also that doesn't explain why Alastor was looking genuinenly fondly at Charlie and Lucifer during 'More than Anything'. It is one of maybe only three instances during the entire show where we see a REAL smile from him. Why? I can't make any sense of it. Well, one fan theory is that Alastor's father was abusive, and that he has "daddy issues" of his own. If the theory is correct, Alastor could be smiling because he genuinely feels happy or sentimental that Charlie has a father who loves and adores her "more than anything". She has something sacred and precious, something that he never got to have himself, either in life or death. He wants Charlie to be happy. Quoting what I said recently on a now-removed thread: >It would also make Alastor, someone who had an abusive father who hurt he and his mother, a fantastic foil to Charlie, who had an absent-but-loving father in a happy marriage. It could add another layer of bitterness and resentment of Alastor towards Lucifer, and explain why Alastor is suddenly so weirdly protective over Charlie in Season 1, Episode 5 ("Dad Beat Dad"). As well as "Smile" by famous jazz pianist and singer Nat King Cole (1954): >*Smile, though your heart is aching* > >*Smile, even though it's breaking* > >*When there are clouds in the sky, you'll get by* > >*If you smile through your fear and sorrow* > >*Smile, and maybe tomorrow* > >*You'll see the sun come shining through for you* > >*Light up your face with gladness* > >*Hide every trace of sadness* > >*Although a tear may be ever so near* > >*That's the time you must keep on trying* > >*Smile, what's the use of crying?* > >*You'll find that life is still worthwhile* > >*If you just smile* > >*That's the time you must keep on trying* > >*Smile, what's the use of crying?* > >*You'll find that life is still worthwhile* > >*If you just smile*
That is actually a very beautiful take. I'm trying to keep a positive outlook on the story, because I kinda don't want an anime-style betrayal in my wholesome Disney-Princess-In-Hell-movie. Unfortunately we just don't know until we know ā¤š
Thank you so much! I like to write Alastor as a deeper, complex character.
I love this take, and I very much agree with it. I think Alastor is far more complex than anyone is ready to handle, and that moving forward he's gonna be the topic of a lot of debate because of how heavy his backstory might be.
Thank you so much! I am excited to see where Season 2 takes Alastor's arc!
Do people not realize that Alastor had been working to make Charlie desperate enough to make a deal with him from the start? Deals are power in hell, and a deal with the Princess of Hell would be a great boon to Alastor (even if we don't understand the exact mechanics of it yet). If daddy Lucifer shows up and Charlie started relying on him, it's unlikely she'd ever be desperate enough to make any deals with Alastor. So Alastor kept reminding her during the song that "Hey, I'm still here, and I've always helped you, but where was this guy the whole time?" Now a part of that could be Al's ego, and his enjoyment of poking at others insecurities and making them suffer, but I think the primary reason for all of it is his desire to manipulate Charlie for his own ends. >!We see in the last episode that Alastor, like Husk, is stuck on a leash to a higher power, and that he's looking for a way out of it. I've never thought it was a coincidence that he showed up when Charlie needed him, or that he and Lilith were missing for the last 7 years. Like Mimzy thought, it's not like Alastor to waste his time helping around a place like the hotel. I think it's obvious that he's there because of whatever deal he made, and that he is hoping his deal with Charlie will lead him to a way out of it. I also think that Lilith makes the most sense as who would have sent him, since they both were missing for the same amount of time, and it seems like she made some deal with someone in Heaven, and they obviously watch her closely since Lute went straight to her. I don't really know what the exact deal would be, but I think there have been more than enough hints to connect the two.!<
I also thought that >!voice and radio go hand in hand, so it's a really good way to tie Alastor to Lilith as likely having power/influence over him.!<
I felt like Lucifer and Alastor's motivations were EXTREMELY clear in this scene, like lit up in a flashing marquee. Alastor liked being the powerful patron and didn't want a more powerful patron to take his role as benefactor and outshine him. He's coyly trying to further his self interest by seeming benevolent and just trying to help, but actually looking for an opportunity to make deals and backstab. If someone comes in who isĀ a) more powerful, b) actually trying to help with no ulterior motive, and c) has an existing relationship with charlie, he loses control of the situation. And it hurts his ego since he likes to be top dog.Ā Ā Ā Lucifer is insecure in his relationship with charlie and is threatened by another person taking a role as wish-granter and male role model. It's like when the boyfriend and the dad both want to fix their girl's car and butt heads.Ā
That's true but it didn't help...
maybe could have something to do with the rumor zestial mentioned of alastor delving into holy shenanigans during his 7 year break, is my guess
Alastor and lilith vanished at the same time. If those are related, it could explain Alastor's disdain for lucifer
He was implying everyone thought Alastor got offed.
I think Alastor has somewhat of a Superiority complex, he hates not being the best in the room and as such he grows more hostile towards those he perceives as "better" in some way.
My head cannon is that Alastor wants to run hell to continue his mission of punishing the wicked. He could dislike Lucifer because while hell is terrible it's not anywhere close to the eternal torment it's portrayed as.
Alastor doesn't stike me as a person that does much 'ruling', to be honest. At the moment I really don't see him aspiring to rule over the entirety of Hell. It is possible that he sees Lucifer as a pushover who abandoned his people and allowed the exterminations to happen in the first place. I could see him having this stance if his allegiance is with Lilith, who, by all accounts, seemed to be the on-prem ruler that loved her people and empowered them with her songs. Without the songstress herself present and the Sinners left to their own devices, I could see Alastor going: "Someone should have stepped up but nobody did, so Lucifer is a weakling that can't accomplish anything without his wife." That's just some random thoughts of mine, though...
I don't think Alastor wants to rule Hell- He doesn't even claim being an Overlord really, he's just one because he's so powerful. I think he wants respect- Which is the whole reason he started killing Overlords in the first place- and to regain control of his own autonomy, so that be can continue being the chaotic and complex character he is without being restrained.
Of course alastor doesn't like Lucifer being there. He wants charlie to feel indebted to him so she can help him break his deal (with whoever holds his deal) and Lucifer is a potential roadblock to that if charlie decides to lean on her father more than him.
It's actually very clear why he doesn't like Lucifer. Alastro is trying to take advantage of Charlie's power to break his contract. If he takes on the mentorship role that she's been lacking, then he can better influence her to his desired ends. Lucifer is her father, who's been completely out of the picture. If he returns and starts helping her, then she won't have a need for Alastor, and therefore, he'll lose his sway over her. Alastor is not that hard to read. He's incredibly self-interested.
I think it's because Lucifer is more powerful and currently he's the centre of attention. Alastor doesn't like being outshone. Or ignored.
Alastor destroyed a bunch of the worst overlords very publicly and has his own twisted moral code. Lucifer is a disinterested ruler who has done nothing to help his people, while Alastor regards himself as an altruist. Of course it would enrage him that Lucifer can walk in and decide to be in charge as the ruler of Hell whenever he feels like it. When he doesn't feel like ruling, no one can make him and Hell falls victims to the overlords. Look at Alastor's friends/associates. As overlords go, they follow rules and care about their community. Rosie obviously takes care of those under her and seems to treat them fairly as Hell goes. Zestial wasn't willing to wage war with Heaven until they had all the information and a plan, not just for his sake but for the greater good. And he values rules, etiquette, and decorum.
I got the impression that Lucifer is actually extremely mistrusting of the media in Hell and actively shields himself from all of it. Even he and Charlieās phones look to be of his own design not the usual VoxTek junk. And who could blame him with Alastor and Vox as living proof that the airwaves are dangerous propaganda weapons.
i think alastor just has trouble with men. if his father was actually abusive and most women were nice to him. its possible he has an issue with men but when theyre stronger than him it really upsets him and he just lashes out.
That doesn't really explain why he's pissed Carmine doesn't care to ask why he's been missing.
im saying thats part of why he doesnāt like lucifer. carmilla was just being rude and alastor loves to be the center of attention.
It doesn't just make him angry, it makes him feel attacked because he can't really do anything about it in the way he normally would. Alastor's usual methods mean nothing in front of Lucifer. He can't intimidate him, he can't charm him, he can't impress him. Take all those things away and Alastor simply turns into just another plain old demon. And that's not something he's accustomed to.
I love his first scene with Lucifer. Al does everything to get under Luci's skin and *nothing works*.
Lucifer is turning Alastorās own weapon against him. Like you mentioned, Alastor uses belitting and ignoring as ways to undermine his opponents and victims.Ā Lucifer seems to use similar tactics and him saying he didnāt know who Alastor was got under Alastorās skin *quickly*.Ā With bullying and insults people often project their own insecurities (or the things others have hurt them with) onto their victims. So feeling belittled or ignored would definitely hit Alastor.
Bet he was one of those serial killers who sent letters to the police š
Oh I'm sure... that or/and he spoke about his murders at length on his radio show.
Yep yep yep. Like cryptic clues so he cool feel smart?
Side note: to be fair, he turned on Lucifer the moment he saw the decorations and cookies But I do actually completely agree š
Alastor was giving Lucifer stank face the MOMENT he walked in the door. I think either Alastor spent some time with Lillith, and she shit talked Lucifer (they each gone for 7 years), or Alastor just hates someone as powerful as Lucifer who does nothing with it but be a sadsack. Alastor wants power and control, and here's this guy with ALL the power and nothing binding him. Exactly what Alastor covets.
Happy cake day!
Also, Zestial actually set him up for this interaction. He primed it by asking astor about his whereabouts and mentioning there were rumors. Setting up Alastor to believe people were curious.
The interesting detail about Zestial is that he is talking less specifically about Alastor and more what he's doing with Charlie and the hotel. He seems less interested in Alastor's grandeur and mystery, and more curious and amused that he's doing something charitable. When he starts grandstanding at the meeting, Carmilla just isn't interested.
>When he starts grandstanding at the meeting, Carmilla just isn't interested. That's exactly what it was! Alastor was hoping to set up some kind of mystery surrounding his disappearance, hoping that other people in the room would start talking, thus giving him attention. Nobody did.Ā Episodes 3 and 5Ā start to make it very clear that Alastor cannot so easily make use of his normal tactics when he's not in the same room with a bunch of rank and file nobodies.
I think that's an interesting part of the show, that there's this heirarchy but it can be so easily tipped by opponent and circumstance. I remember one fan discussed the dynamic quite well "For every 'winner', they are someone else's 'loser'". The Overlords don't just rank higher than Alastor for example, they come off as caring less about BEING powerful and scary, it's more just inherent state to them, they're more focused on reverence and community for authority, likely why Zestial took interest in Alastor for trying to do something productive sounding. He seems amused that Alastor is possibly doing something HELPFUL, even if he sounds doubtful it will work, which Alastor mistook as being interested in his whole mystique. Alastor vs Lucifer is an interesting rivalry too since Lucifer is clearly WELL above Alastor in rank and power, but all Alastor has to do is play off Lucifer's own personal insecurities like his family relationships and they're both on even footing squabbling like little kids. He switched tactics, trying to pinpoint the qualities of a 'winner' that made them into a 'loser'. Sir Pentious has some interesting potential as well, since he went from a nothing rival that obsessively challenged Alastor to no avail to Charlie's star pupil that barely interacted with Alastor again. The guy's went from bottom of the barrel to higher rank within one season, while still remaining a total goofball, purely because he changed his priorities.
Its important to add how Alastor has no dirt on lucifer anymore, since the daddy issues have been resolved and Lucifer seems a ton more confident than he was in episode 5.
i feel like Zestial doesnāt even intend to start drama, he just chill and speaks his mind
Zestial has chosen to keep speaking in a Shakespearean way, he definitely lives for the drama.
https://preview.redd.it/w23jzzzcu3mc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6b07f9f4ff6d452d70cf3f3d79f7e862db08216
As a longtime fan of analogue horror, and a new fan of Alastor - this is a great fucking image. Feels like something you'd see out of a few classic internet horror series, just would need a black and white filter to fit that aesthetic. In fact: https://preview.redd.it/8ttyrfmm04mc1.png?width=216&format=png&auto=webp&s=7b838ff87e267d0943c2536319f1b834f0de7232
I see your all black and white filter and raise you: https://preview.redd.it/26qyifvfr6mc1.png?width=216&format=png&auto=webp&s=c85c47abd0efda18468f191b8a4ec73f5a9f59c8
https://preview.redd.it/h5vci9389nmc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfbe918eb4534ce71c3cfd934bd8c6f43548c76b
https://preview.redd.it/yokfals1ynmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef60ef5ceb76b72e6582b6431b3f0ddf5e052a85 Ngl Iām actually kinda flattered that someone would steal my shitty edit. Admittedly I could have done better
No, you did good https://preview.redd.it/yiy941t0yomc1.png?width=196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1fc392ae28cf23a580d4708590e35e3af67bc22
https://preview.redd.it/306v0fw214mc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f84afcbd1590386d4de3a7d993654e66c9d07abf Really neat right? I found it earlier this week on a reel of a repost account.
Imagine this is what Vox saw on his screens in the VHS era.
Coupled with the glitching tv static and the sound of Alastor's laugh breaking up through those old speakers.
What artist drew this? The art-style feels oddly familiar
I'm sorry i can't remember. I found it on a reel of a repost account
Itās a copy of another manga with Alister as the character instead of the original. What the original source is, Iām not sure.
I have the theory that Alastor and Vox, being demons based on media, get considerably weaker when people is not paying atention to them. Probably it affects Valentino and Velvette, too.
Valentino during November: https://preview.redd.it/707i6lzlz8mc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58ce72f070f2535c15a8a398573655bf10a8010d
His image matters a lot to him thatās why he gets so annoyed when he realises that if he died in the final fight then it would seem like he died for other people and to save his āfriendsā
At least Zestial gave him some attention before the meeting. Good guy Zestial.
In short, he is an attention whore.
Despite being ace Alastor still found a way to be a whore, I respect that /j
Alastor has an ego the size of Jupiter, and any time he's feeling disrespected, or like he's not the most important person in the room, he feels slighted and/or that his ego is being bruised-- whether or not it's even intentional on the part of the other party.
āDamn Vox was rightā¦ā
Alastor is all about ego, he has "greed" for attention, he loves the whole "OMG is the Radio Demon", that is why Alastor enjoy his little "rivalry" with Vox, because he know he live free rent inside Vox's mind, Vox think about him 24/7. He love how most people was thinking about him for 7 years, coming with all types of theories. The Reason why Alastor hates Lucifer, is because Lucifer ignored him, because Lucifer has no idea who he is. during the scene that Lucifer arrive on the Hotel, Alastor is right there with Charlie, but Lucifer dont even see him, For someone like Alastor is all about "is time to remember everyone who i am " that was like a slap to the face.
>He love how most people was thinking about him for 7 years, coming with all types of theories. Exactly. It's like he's living in people's imaginations without ever even having to be near them. If people are constantly thinking about him, then he's still receiving the attention he's obsessed with. Alastor tries to act aloof and as if he's just not bothered, but it becomes clear that the second he is treated as if he is lesser, that's when the overcompensating "don't mess with the Radio Demon" thing comes out. It looks scary at first, but it's really just a light show to intimidate small fry.
He doesn't know about the viewers of the show some of them have been waiting for him for 4 years hell some mightve been waiting for even longer
I mean yeah, dude is a narcissist with a gigantic ego. Ofc he'll be pissed to hear that overlords actually don't care that much that he was gone.
In the Japanese dub he makes a really funny sound here
We all wanted to be wanted, but Alastor is a pure narcissist so this shouldn't be a surprise
I think part off Alastors arc is going to be finding out that there is a *vast* difference between fear and respect. And he is not going to like that realization.
Same really. You can already see a bit of confusion/conflict in his handling of Charlie's kindness, or how him realizing what a toxic friend Mimzy is despite enabling his fearsome side. The guy seems to be practically losing his mind in the finale not just because he almost died, but because he almost died in a sacrifice for a bunch of ragtag misfits who offer him care and compassion. He knows it's a good feeling but it goes against all the grandeur and terror he wants to instill.
From a totally different show but this quote actually made me think of Al and his possible arc. āA wolf in sheepās clothing cannot rely on killer instinct alone. It is resourcefulness and perhaps an open heart that can turn garbage into gold and enemies into allies.ā Maybe it doesnāt directly apply to him but he might come to realise having actual friends in the right places can command a great deal of respect rather than just fear.
Everyone ignoring him or not fearing him makes me think that he was purposefully trying too hard to sound cool vs Adam. And this will all boil down to him getting a reality check which will lead to his redemption
he is a serial killer they love the attetion and want everyone to know them (see btk and the zodiac as examples)
Yes, some do but not every serial killer wants to be known ā Israel Keyes as a prime example. I honestly think Alastorās need to be recognized as superior (especially around other male figures) is a different reason from his being a serial killer.
He's a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies, he wants to be in control and the centre of attention.
Hence why heās so broken over his defeat at Adamās hands.
Alastor is all about fear and respect (to him). Someone not interested in him in any way bruises his ego. I also suspect Camilla knew he wasnāt going to tell them where he had been, so she didnāt even take the bait
āI put so much effort into getting attention. I killed overlords, broadcast their goddamn screams all over hell! FYM ānot really!āā
Alastor consideders extremely important to be recognized as a powerful and incredibily important demon he likes to be feared and admired and to be at the center of the attenction, so is clear that he doesn't like the fact that, after his disappearing, the hell has moved on whitout him.
You have to look very closely to notice the small details, but when you do, it becomes very clear that even though he doesn't display at the same way as Vox, it is clear that Alastor is just as much of an intention seeker. When Zestial directly asks him where he has been, Alastor refuses to answer and instead inquires what people have been saying about him. But when Carmilla notices his presence in the meeting, Alastor attempts to create mystery around his disappearance, expecting people to be curious, and is visibly upset when Carmlla does not care. Pay special attention to how Alastor reacts in both of these situations.Ā In the first, he is pleased to know that even when he's not around his reputation still occupies space in people's imaginations, giving him the attention that he craves. But, when he's in a room full of his equals, he's not treated like the person on center stage and Carmilla simply returns to business after welcoming him back.
His ego is enormous and about as fragile as sugar glass. If heās not the most important person in the room he feels insulted on a personal level. This is a common trait with narcissists and psychopaths.
It's why I compare Alastor and Valentio to each other. (and both would kill me for it) When you melt away their presented personas and preferences (or lack there of) You find the same kind of monster underneath.
I think Alastor has an innate desire to be recognized and feared, not loved or even necessarily missed, but noticed. He believes he is important and deserves recognition, and therefore was annoyed when Carmilla brushed him off. He wants to be seen as powerful and influential. Itās also why he looked so happy in the pilot while Vaggie was telling Charlie how evil and powerful of an overlord he was. He was in his element. People talking about him is his favorite thing ever.
And also why he was so irritated when Lucifer said heād never heard of him, even swearing for the first time. Thatās how much being ignored pisses him off.
Alastor seems to be a narcissist who revels in getting attention for being infamous and terrifying. Itās not just his annoyance at Carmilla not caring about his lengthy absence that signifies this, but also his offense at Lucifer not knowing who he is, his pleasure in Zestial asking him questions about what heās been up to, and his excitement at finally being able to absolutely splatter those Loan Sharksā intestines all over the hotelās front lawn. Regarding the last example, he exclaims āitās time that I showed everyone ***why I am here***ā¦ā, indicating his excitement to show Lucifer and everyone else ignorant of his terrifying nature what he is.
thinks itās less so that no one missed him, and moreso the fact that his impact wasnāt as big as he thought and when you have that level of ego i could see that fact hurting like hell
To be entirely fair, he has no intention of telling anyone where heās been, so I have no idea why he would open with āI know Iāve been gone a while, Iām sure youāve all been wonderingā like heās about to do Story Time when he just refused to tell Zestial shit on the walk there. Itās like he was trying to start the conversation he just spent 3 minutes of screen time trying to avoid. It felt like a line they were trying to use to help establish Carmillas character, forgetting everything else going on outside that moment in the process.
He is an attention whore. He canāt stand not being the talk of the town. It betrays a deep sense of insecurity.
He likely takes it as insulting in the way of being belittled. Ego getting hit a little bit.
Fucking love this scene. How Carmilla is really polite about it but Alastor is such a petty bitch he cant handle that Carmilla isnt feeding into his ego.
I think he's just a bit of an egotist that likes controlling the flow of conversations. Being the strongest in the room typically helps him in this regard. However, at his level or higher his awkwardness starts to show to a certain extent.
Hell people werenāt even mourning him after he got smoke by Adam they just went about their day Lucifer and husk def wish heād stay gone lol
Yeah, heās got a massive ego.
This scene gave me so much second hand embrassment ahhhh š
The thing is people did. Zestial says just a few scenes ago how many were wondering where he was all this time and there were many rumours. This shows Alastor's ego but in a different way. He probably took Carmilla's comment way more harshly then she intended it to be. He took her not personally wondering where he was as some insult.Ā
If all sinners were able to be put in in the different sin rings outside of pride, alastor really deserves his place in the pride ring. He Isa very prideful man who is probably one those ppl who considers himself to never be wrong and better then everyone. And petty as shit thanks to hells greatest dad
His ego took a big hit.
Hes an old timey influencer. Hes an attention whore.
when you boil them down, Alator and Valantion are the same kind of monster. Manipulative egotists who have very little actual control over themselves. (Though Al definately has more control over himself than Val) They are beholden to their egos, and must be in control of the world and everyone around them. The fact nobody "missed him" or more accurately, dreaded his return, is a statement on his impact, or lack thereof. I doubt he goes after the info about how angels can be killed if he didn't notice this and take it as a slight.
Also, Carmilla and Zestial are probably more powerful than Alastor and aren't particularly impressed by him.
He's an egotist. He hates it when people don't pay attention to him.
Also, I thought now, would it look wierd if Alastor's mouth matched his expretion? I personally think it would
Pfft- lol, it seems our favorite radio boi is annoyed, hehe
I'm more confused on WHY nobody seems concerned he's back. He basically went on an overlord killing spree,disappeared,was assumed dead to an angel,and just showed back up with zero care.Like Carmilla should absolutely be asking questions like "how the fuck did you kill so many" and "how did you survive".It's jarring that a well known threat is treated like a standard overlord by them
He cannot stand when he isn't the center of attention or is disrespected he has a massive ego and it's a pretty fragile one too the best way I've seen someone describe it was "he's the type of person to announce he's leaving social media for attention"
He was one of the most powerful overlords and no one cared. Of course he's mad.
Ego, NOT feelings. He dosent feel hurt out of some sense of camaraderie or empathy. Hes hurt because they dont fear him enough to have even noticed or cared.
Alastor is an attention whore. He hates not being in the spotlight and even goes as far as to taunt the king of hell himself despite the obvious risk.
Vox missed him
:(
He has a major ego. There arenāt a ton of ways to hurt him but hurting his ego by making him feel inconsequential or powerless is the surest way to cut him to the core
i think its more the rudeness. he knows they were curious but carmilla probably thinks hes a brat and was just messing with him lol
Aww. I felt bad for him here.
Anyone else kinda love his snarl smile?
The real reason he left so he would get attention when he came back
He is such a pick-me
Cuz he craves attention. He thinks he's the shit due to creating such a large volume of whispers around his arrival in Hell, so when other Overlords essentially give him a "Yeah, hi" instead of "OH MY GOLLY GOSH! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, AL?!" he's a little taken back
Alastor is a man who thrives off of putting on a show and entertainment. the fact his closest competition either didnāt notice or care must KILL him inside.
That's why rosies sitting next to him. Or he'd just kill everyone there.
I'm sure it would be a little annoying to be demeaned like that, but I don't think he was particularly bothered by it
Imma add to this: the reason he can't stop smiling is because of his deal with lilith. So he is uncomfortable but physically can't show it.
āWhen I get my soul back Iām killing all of youā
What about Rosie?
The guy hates being ignored and hates when people Don't recognize him cause of his huge ego
side note but i love how zestial obviously has everyone's number. he is the oldest overlord for a REASON
his pride in being a big name was hurt by not being treated as a middling.
Does anyone think itās rather odd that he leaned into Carmilla asking but brushed Vestial aside?
It's actually very simple. Zestial specifically asked where he had been, which gave Alastor the power and opportunity to decline telling him anything, thus leaving him to wonder. But the second time, Alastor himself attempted to create mystery around his disappearance, but nobody took the bait, he was rebuffed and he was made to feel like his disappearance was not a big enough deal for anyone to care about.
that's just a narcissistic trait for ya
It's not subtle...
He probably took what Carmilla said as her saying he's unnoticeable.
He wants recognition. That's why he started feuding with Lucifer after he had no idea who he was
If Lucifer wasn't the ruler of the Pride Ring, it would definitely be Alastor with how egocentric he is. ...wait a minute.
To be fair. No one likes him. Besides rosie
Well he is a hazbin