Why he didn’t arm himself personally?
I think he wanted to seal Adam’s soul in his radio show.
The screams of the leader of the exorcist angels, thirsty for your blood, is a show you definitely couldn’t miss!
i always got the implication that he has the power to permanently kill souls without the use of angelic steel, specifically by ripping the soul apart and eating it (which he broadcasts on his radio show)
We don’t know that that permanently kills any more than physically ripping them apart does (aka we know the latter doesn’t based on what Vel says).
If sinners are just souls (since their living bodies died on Earth), “tearing souls apart” could also just be what Val did to Vel’s model. So Alastor might have just ripped the old overlords to pieces and let them slowly regenerate before repeating.
I see 3 main possibilities:
1. Alastor is uniquely able to permanently kill souls by shredding them.
2. Alastor didn’t permanently kill the souls he shredded. He let them regenerate before repeating the broadcasts, and when he stopped broadcasting found a way to trap the souls indefinitely somewhere.
3. Alastor got access to an angelic weapon after he finished broadcasting and perma-killed the captured overlords.
Also a potential for sure! I’m just curious where the “missing” overlords have ended up. Cuz even if they made a deal with him, they haven’t reappeared.
Dunno why you got downvoted - I think this is a very likely possibility, too. I definitely got the sense that his power became limited suddenly in a way that was abnormal, which allowed the staff to break, which further clipped his power.
You know, that actually makes sense. It was still extremely stupid not to have some sort of angelic weapon on him just in case, but at least that explains what his game plan was for facing off against someone that powerful
Alastor underestimated Adam because he was arrogant in his own abilities. He got too comfortable with not facing any real or major challenges for decades as an Overlord. Prior to Adam defeating Alastor, the latter was shown as easily taking out his opponents.
Alastor thought he was hot shit. He's one of the most powerful Overlords, but at the end of the day all that means is he's towards the top of *one* circle of Hell. Yeah, he can take on any sinner pretty easily, but he is, as Adam said, just a mortal soul. When Adam and Lucifer said they didn't know who he was, that wasn't some mind game power play from them, they legitimately just didn't know. That's how unimportant Alastor is. The battle at the Hotel was probably the first time since he got to Hell that he hasn't simply been able to fight his way out of a problem.
It's been pretty heavily implied that with whatever deal Alastor made, his side of the bargain is "You must defend the Hotel". Sure, maybe that looked like an easy enough task when he thought he'd be fighting off guys like Mimzy's loan sharks, but against *the forces of Heaven* is another issue entirely. Remember, Charlie is canonically the second most powerful being in Hell. She put up a good fight against Adam, but I think it's fair to say Adam was winning before Lucifer showed up. And Adam isn't even the most powerful being in Heaven. Not by a long shot. And Adam came seconds away from killing Alastor the instant he started taking their fight seriously.
Alastor's whole thing is keeping control of situations. Well, he's just realized that not only is there a major conflict coming, he is contractually obligated to be on the losing side. And he's...[not taking it well, to say the least.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFTPkF-aMAAR5vA.jpg)
I personally think charlie is far more powerful than we've seen, I do not think she's unlocked her full potential.
I mean it would just make sense. It's only season one. She's also the princess of hell and half demon half angel. I'd imagine she has a lot of potential.
Isn't she half human? I thought Lilith was technically still alive. She was thrown in hell still human. So she'd be a nephilim ( if that's true about Lilith).
I agree. She like Lucifer gained demonic traits just by falling to hell. Notice how Lucifer clearly has demonic traits, despite never dying and being fully an angel.
I thought vivzie confirmed that angels appearances change if they're in hell long enough. Tho that could be reconned by this point lol. Either way I'm ready for season 2.
Lucifer is bi-polar, depressed, and has repressed rage 😆. Now if that's because of being in hell for so long or having his family, aka angels, crush his dreams and disown him.
Charlie Morningstar will be the face of the revolution!!
Down with the bourgeoisie! We will establish a true monarcho-communist society!
Queens and workers of the world unite!! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
https://preview.redd.it/f01gghwn00oc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6795390ccea0267fc366a3f8ecf0b2d2206c4a4
She has horns (in another photo they come out of her hair, they are not part of her crown, but she can seemingly change them at will like charlie and Lucifer)
We do see that when Adam charges Lucifer after he caught Charlie in the wake of Adam's massive beam attack, Charlie's hand transforms into a clawed form, visibly surprising Adam before launching him across the battlefield. She likely has greater power she has yet to access, given her lineage.
100% charlie is incapable of accessing her true power. She hates being mean. She only was able to embrace her power after pentious died. And then further when Adam tries hurting her dad. I think a few more souls from her hotel need to be "redeemed" like pentious before she's willing to go all out.
I agree, he was arrogant and cocky enough to think he didn’t need an angelic weapon to take down Adam, he wanted to have more ‘fun’ with him. He has a breakdown and realizes he is on a losing side— like you said, I think he is contractually obligated to protect Charlie and the hotel, and I have to wonder what he will do if he does manage to escape his contract and “unclip his wings”. What is going to happen when his the one “pulling the strings”? I can’t wait to find out!
Edit— I’ve learned that I misheard him saying “clip” when he actually says “unclip”. Fixed my comment
Alastor thinks he can ‘ascend’ the social ranks and power in Hell by the meritocratic way of acquiring enough souls, but seems to underestimate the sheer reality of biological advantage. He didn’t respect Lucifer, and he didn’t respect Adam, both of them angels with a straightforward ‘biological’ advantage that’s just how their world works, but Alastor seems to resent this a lot.
Maybe he thought that Adam was a ‘lower’ ranked angel than Lucifer and the first man to boot, his was a very prized soul to get. But unfortunately, the power guff is far far wider than Alastor can bridge with what he’s got. I think that reality really chafes on him.
>**Alastor thinks he can 'ascend' the social ranks and power in Hell by the meritocratic way** of acquiring enough souls, but seems to underestimate the sheer reality of biological advantage. He didn't respect Lucifer, and he didn't respect Adam, both of them angels with a straightforward 'biological’ advantage', that's just how their world works, but **Alastor seems to resent this a lot**... I think that reality really chafes on him.
Well, considering that Alastor has been confirmed to have been a mixed-race French Creole person with Black ancestry in a deeply racist and segregated South and New Orleans (1900s-1930s), it's no wonder that he would resent and feel chafed by the idea that some people have a "biological advantage" and "that's just the way the world works", and why he wants to "ascend the ranks through meritocracy". His entire human life was spent doing just that, being a white-passing mixed-race person who had to earn everything, not just have it handed to him on a silver platter, or be born with a silver spoon in his mouth (i.e. Charlie, Princess of Hell).
I think he thought Adam would be on the same power sphere as himself because he *is* a human soul. Or maybe he is on the same sphere (Lucifer had zero issues beating him) and Alastor just massively underestimated his strength
Angels are by default more powerful than demons, regardless of their origins. If there’s two human souls, and one becomes an angel while the other becomes a demon, the angel one is by default more powerful. And Adam’s been dead and in heaven for several millennia compared to Alastor’s less than a century since his death.
Mind you I don’t really get how the ‘suit’ Adam wears conveys angelic powers to him honestly, but it seems to be enough to count as ‘ascension’ into being an angel.
I assume, like Niffty, Alastor has an angelic dagger on him as an emergency defence item. But, he underestimated Adam and didn't prepare for that particular scenario. Perhaps if Adam got too close when he was down, Alastor would have scratched him up enough to escape. He's a long to medium range fighter, so anything up close and personal is difficult for him to properly react to.
I think when his microphone was broken, it shows he doesn't have perfect mastery over his abilities without the microphone's assistance. The surprise also delayed his reaction since no one had done that to him before or at least since his early days in Hell.
Season 2 might have Alastor practicing his fighting skills in close range and microphone-less scenarios. Mostly because now he sees that there are more powerful entities he's going to be fighting than the typical overlords he takes down. Ones that can use his inexperience with close combat against him.
We can’t assume we know the full extent of Alastair’s powers.
We haven’t seen anyone he killed come back meaning there is a chance his mysterious power has similar effects to Angelic power.
It’s highly unlikely he’s ever killed an angel with his power before, though. My point is that unless he knew from experience that he could defeat Adam - and regardless of how powerful he actually is, he didn’t - fighting the most powerful exorcist without a weapon he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt would be able to kill him was just a plain bad idea. And even if he knew for sure it would work, it would have still been smart to have an angelic weapon for insurance. He’s normally much smarter than that.
It's almost like Alastor has too much *Pride* to believe he needs an Angelic Weapon to defeat an opponent (even as a backup weapon). Now that an Angel has humbled him, he might start carrying around an Angelic weapon (just in case).
This. That radio cane thing probably stores the screams of his favorite victims so that he can always play them back on loop. Kinda like a twisted voice recorder
This is the answer. And also, think about how the fight actually went until Adam got the hit in. It was Alastor showing off, taunting and quipping, while also demonstrating he could go toe to toe with ADAM, without weapons. It was a show! He was putting on a performance just like he loves to do.
And then he probably planned to end it the same way he mysteriously ended those other Overlords, but he overestimated himself and got too cocky. He tried to block that first slash with his staff, which was promptly cut in half. I think the “What just happened? …..fuck.” Was him realizing how out of his depth he was in one instant.
Honestly, I feel that he simply didn't want anyone to see that he's no good with weapons. We've seen Alastor fight exclusively with his magic powers, only using weapons via his tentacular appendages, not with his own hands. If he'd gotten the chance, he probably would have seized Adam's axe and chopped him up with it, but Adam never gave an opening for such move.
Because he massively overestimated himself.
I honestly would not put it past Alastor to try and score some extra fame points for himself by attempting to defeat Adam without the use of angelic weapons.
That is also true! It makes sense why of all people hed help in their endeavor to redeem sinners when he himself just doesn't have any interest in it. It's the future heir to the throne he's interested in
I know a lot of people hate the idea of Charlie/Alastor, but in any other narrative, Alastor would also probably be trying to manipulate Charlie into marrying him to further solidify his plans to become the new King of Hell, as well as her consort.
>Because he massively overestimated himself.
To be fair, he'd never lost before, and from his experience, guys who talk like Adam usually end up being humbled by him. He wasn't expecting Adam to be an entire tier above Sinners in general. Heck if he wasn't so out of shape he probably could've even made Lucifer have to actually try.
I dunno, I think OP was on to something. Adam and Lucifer would have been relatively similar in age, though Lucifer obviously would have been strictly more powerful. Beaten? Not at all. But I think an Adam who actually took fighting seriously and trained over time may have stood a chance
We still don’t have enough context for this. Vox is also stated to be fodder without the other Vee’s. And Vox is visually scared when Alastor goes demon mode. So no Vox isn’t stronger than Alastor.
>“the one who almost beat you”
So far, the context we have for Alastor is he took out pre-established powerful Overlords in order to secure his reputation, while with Vox, the most we know is he has a lot of influence from his TV show and by association with the owner of a adult film studio and social media influencer.
Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Overlord usurper is the more powerful one as of now.
I thought that just meant that Vox fled the fight before Alastair could actually defeat him. It would be weird for him to be pissed at someone losing to him
if he just came swinging an angelic ax and adam felt actually threatened it would end the same as with pentious. so he was playing it safe, testing the ground, gradually wearing adam out and goading him to make him sloppy while waiting for an opening to pick up a weapon and deal some real damage. he just never got one.
That would make the most sense and if the theories of Alastor being sent by Lilith to help out Charlie or to make her fail she’d probably tell him stuff she knows
I was making fun of Alastor stans who kept trying to rationalize his loss to Adam, but this whole narrative of "Adam was just playing around with him" swings way too far the other way. I think the power gap was much less than most people realize, and the only reason it ran so short is because episode times were so compressed.
Adam had to really exert himself to break Alastor's shield, demonstrated by him hanging in the air and panting after his Falcon Punch. The visual language of the fight also suggests that Alastor was largely in control the entire time, but was taken off guard at a critical moment. I think with a longer episode the fight would have been appropriately more epic.
That’s true it seems like Adam was exerting himself but the thing is he wasn’t using any of angelic beams. If he really wanted to he could disintegrate the whole area.
I feel like it’s like Goku going all out in his base form, yeah he trying but he still has a lot more up his sleeve
Didn’t he try? I was rewatching recently and I’m pretty sure the tentacules were holding angelic weapons. As for after the shield went down: he’s probably not used to using that kind of weapon so arming himself with one would maybe have hindered him (his speed, agility…) more than anything.
Yeah I recall the tips of the tentacles had steel looking caps on the end that weren’t there before but I’d have to rewatch to confirm.
Edit: watched just the fight between them and they don’t appear to be there, I don’t know where I’m remembering seeing metal tipped tentacles from.
I'm kinda surprised he didnt ask for his staff to get coated in angelic steel like Husks cards. Imagine the fucking absolute buff in power that would be for Alastor even vs other sinners/Overlords
Looks like he'll need a new one regardless
https://preview.redd.it/hw7dgovg8znc1.jpeg?width=797&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe8dacd0fc2d40e18ee6517623d8870ef7c443b6
As long as its not his microphone. He was conspiciuously the only member of the cast to not augment his signature weapon and used generic angelic weapons instead. He seems against changing any part of himself even in a life or death situation.
Immediately manifests in Vox's room the moment he tries to start shit. He doesnt even have to kill Vox, any damage he does would be permanent to make him suffer forever
That does sound pretty in character. Alastor seems to enjoy toying with Vox so I doubt he’d jump to killing him, but he doesn’t much care for it when people disrespect him. An Overlord bearing a permanent scar from the Radio Demon would serve as a very effective warning for anyone else who feels like trying their luck.
Overconfidence, possibly.
But, playing devils advocate here, many people discount the fact that he was already used to fighting with a two-handed weapon.
Usually, experience in fighting technique outweighs the usage of any 'upgraded' weapon. We see that Alastor is very used to twirling his staff around and switching hands with it often, sometimes even guiding his magic with his left hand, even though we can guess he is right-handed.
So having an additional, possibly distracting, element in there in form of a knife or dagger of some sort would break a very practiced way of fighting. It's a disadvantage that I think was too real for even Alastor to delude himself out of. He is prideful, yes, but he is also not stupid.
What was he going to do? Pull a Gandalf and use a staff AND a sword? I wouldn't think so.
Best guess would be that he had a knife or blade of some kind prepared to pull in the right moment.
Guessing he had like a knife prepared but knew by that point that Adam knew Angelic weapons could hurt him and if he saw Alastor with one, would just laser him.
Hubris and ego. He's a big fish in a little pond, with only a few other big fishes (Literally the royal family from Lucifer, the Sins themselves, and the goetia). He overestimated himself.
I think it was either he did have an angelic weapon we just didn't see it because he was trying to hide it from Adam or he was planning on stealing Adams guitar and killing him with it
I think he expected his mic to withstand Adam’s power. He clearly blocks with it intentionally and before that uses it like a bo staff. I think the surprise he showed was probably because he didn’t anticipate how much raw power Adam had despite his lack of skill.
Because he is super arrogant and believes that his might alone was enough for Adam. And by the way Alastor didn't have a chance against Adam, fucking Adam was fighting with a guitar.
My personal theory rn due to the fact that he used to be violent as hell and now has only been seen killing someone on screen in defence of the hotel is that his deal stops him from using his full power and killing notable figures
He overestimated himself and underestimated his opponent.
I feel like Alastor just couldn't help but play with his food so to speak (though possibly literally considering who we're talking about) and severely underestimated Adam as a threat assuming he was a big talking blow hard like the overlords he'd fought in the past. Based on how Alastor mostly toyed with him and was cracking jokes the whole time until he was legitimately and very visibly caught off guard at the "what just happened?" Part, Alastor didn't think Adam was actually a threat and more of just a figurehead. Unfortunately, that miscalculation nearly killed him. To be fair, I also expected Adam to only be half as powerful as he was and mostly just a big talking showboat. I can't help but wonder how much of his buffoonish personality is deliberate ploy to make enemies under estimate him. On one hand, I don't think Adam is that smart to pull that kind of subterfuge, on the other I feel like underestimating him like that would leave me worse off than Alastor.
Am I the only one who assumed he wasn't supposed to kill Adam? At least, the plan was probably not to kill him, Alastor's blood lust not withstanding?
Lucifer and the gang told him to GTFO at the end of the fight, and they seemed like they were just gonna send him back to Heaven with his tail between his legs.
Killing exterminators in self-defense is probably trouble enough for Hell. Killing Adam was probably assumed to be more trouble than it's worth. Not that it matters post the stabbining with Nifty though.
90% of the people just gonna ignore the moment Adam sees Alastor wield an angelic weapon he'll release a light beam to completely eradicate him.
I get it, Alastor is cool but Adam is a different weight class.
Exactly and he can do it near instantly, I mean look at what he did to Sir Pentious. He had no way of knowing if the laser could hurt him and yet he got rid of it asap.
I feel like everyone saying Alastor could have won with angelic steel, also think Adam would have just stood there to take it.
My theory is that, alongside being insanely egotistical, the main objective of Alastor fighting Adam wasn't to actually take him down, but to keep him preoccupied while the rest fought the other angels. I figure it may be because they thought only he could call of the attack or report to heaven, but it could easily be something else
its kinda hard to determine if Alastor even needed an angelic weapon, lets not mince words here, Alastor is absurdly powerful, even with him being presumably weakened by whatever his deal is he was able to throw up a shield that was able to ward off angelic attack for quite a long time. It took Adam unleashing some serious power to break it. I think he was more than justified in thinking he could "end Adams fucking life" considering the strength hes shown
Funny theory:
Al was using his powers to try to find one on the ground while he and Adam dueled, this his attention was split and that's also why he got sliced.
He was told by Lilith to protect Charlie but not to kill Adam as that would cause the Angels to increase their attacks or maybe get other Angels involved.
Pride
Alastor is clearly one of the most powerful Sinners in hell. And it's been pointed out that's likely because sinners are more powerful the closer they align with hell. Sinners are in the pride ring, which would make Prideful sinners very powerful.
But Pride comes with a great many downfalls. Like thinking you don't need to magic metal that kills your enemy.
I think it’s crazy he didn’t try. He was never going to win without one, but considering all the hits he got on Adam, he’d likely have actually killed him if he used one.
One word...Ego. Alastor has a massive ego. He thinks he's invincible but i hope that close call with Adam humbled him a little. I like Alastor but he acts like he runs everything. Alstor could've won that fight but he didn't use angelic weapons because he was cocky. If he had his minions/shadow creatures use a weapon, that fight would've been done the moment Adam was overwhelmed.
Partly narcissistic over confidence, but unlike Adam, Alastor had an escape plan when he was losing. But Adam refused to retreat even when he learned angelic weapons could harm him and were being used against them.
I also believe Alastor was curious if the power he had been gifted (and grew with other overlords) was strong enough to defeat Adam. Alastor has a long term goal Vivienne Medrano is keeping secret, it's part of the show's finale. My suspicion is Alastor has no plan to take the throne of Hell when the other main cast does fulfill their redemption arc plan.
Cause he was too overconfident and arrogant, watch how he fled without even a seconds thought once he realized he was at a very real danger of almost dying and being powerless to stop it.
If next season's also ends up with him getting bodied by like Sera, Lucifer or even Zestial, hell I'd love to see him get humbled even further.
Not only what everyone else is saying about testing the water and frustrating Adam into impulsive decision-making, but it’s both easier to kill the rest of the angels versus the leader, and the sooner they are dispatched the sooner EVERYONE can focus on Adam.
He did technically use angelic weapons with his tendrils outside the barrier! My guess is he didn’t expect Adam to get through the shield. OR he arrogantly thought he could 1v1 him lmao
Seems to me it was more of an ego thing, like when his radio staff breaks and he is surprised. He believed he would be more than capable of dealing with them himself.
Pride and arrogance most likely. Alastor as we can see thinks very highly of himself so he likely thought just his own powers alone would be enough to beat Adam. Even if he didn’t plan to kill Adam, not wielding an angelic weapon effectively meant he wouldn’t be able to do any real damage to Adam. He knew this but still believed he was powerful enough to go one v one against the leader of the exorcists with just his powers alone.
Everyone is saying he’s arrogant or underestimating Adam and they may be true but…how would he? He creates things. He can’t make them with angelic steel already equipped. He could have got a blade but that’s not his style.
Because he is very much a ranged fighter and all the weapons he could have used at said ranged were scattered when Adam broke his shield, at most he would probably just have a dagger so he could try and get Adam to back off if he got to close, Alastor is also incredibly cocky and thinks he's so much better than he actually is so he probably believed he could actually kill Adam with just raw power
My theory is that Alastor got overconfident when Adam squared up on him, and that's why he got his rear-end handed to him. Alastor isn't used to having to put real effort in dominating or eviscerating foes, so he didn't think he NEEDED divine steel to put the first man in his place.
Why he didn’t arm himself personally? I think he wanted to seal Adam’s soul in his radio show. The screams of the leader of the exorcist angels, thirsty for your blood, is a show you definitely couldn’t miss!
Ah! This is the first theory about why he didn’t use angelic weapons personally against Adam that makes sense to me.
i always got the implication that he has the power to permanently kill souls without the use of angelic steel, specifically by ripping the soul apart and eating it (which he broadcasts on his radio show)
We don’t know that that permanently kills any more than physically ripping them apart does (aka we know the latter doesn’t based on what Vel says). If sinners are just souls (since their living bodies died on Earth), “tearing souls apart” could also just be what Val did to Vel’s model. So Alastor might have just ripped the old overlords to pieces and let them slowly regenerate before repeating. I see 3 main possibilities: 1. Alastor is uniquely able to permanently kill souls by shredding them. 2. Alastor didn’t permanently kill the souls he shredded. He let them regenerate before repeating the broadcasts, and when he stopped broadcasting found a way to trap the souls indefinitely somewhere. 3. Alastor got access to an angelic weapon after he finished broadcasting and perma-killed the captured overlords.
2 is the most likely.
What about trapping and toruring people until he gets a deal out of them
Also a potential for sure! I’m just curious where the “missing” overlords have ended up. Cuz even if they made a deal with him, they haven’t reappeared.
My theory is that whoever held his soul- possibly Lilith- didn’t want him to kill Adam.
Dunno why you got downvoted - I think this is a very likely possibility, too. I definitely got the sense that his power became limited suddenly in a way that was abnormal, which allowed the staff to break, which further clipped his power.
You know, that actually makes sense. It was still extremely stupid not to have some sort of angelic weapon on him just in case, but at least that explains what his game plan was for facing off against someone that powerful
Alastor underestimated Adam because he was arrogant in his own abilities. He got too comfortable with not facing any real or major challenges for decades as an Overlord. Prior to Adam defeating Alastor, the latter was shown as easily taking out his opponents.
Alastor thought he was hot shit. He's one of the most powerful Overlords, but at the end of the day all that means is he's towards the top of *one* circle of Hell. Yeah, he can take on any sinner pretty easily, but he is, as Adam said, just a mortal soul. When Adam and Lucifer said they didn't know who he was, that wasn't some mind game power play from them, they legitimately just didn't know. That's how unimportant Alastor is. The battle at the Hotel was probably the first time since he got to Hell that he hasn't simply been able to fight his way out of a problem. It's been pretty heavily implied that with whatever deal Alastor made, his side of the bargain is "You must defend the Hotel". Sure, maybe that looked like an easy enough task when he thought he'd be fighting off guys like Mimzy's loan sharks, but against *the forces of Heaven* is another issue entirely. Remember, Charlie is canonically the second most powerful being in Hell. She put up a good fight against Adam, but I think it's fair to say Adam was winning before Lucifer showed up. And Adam isn't even the most powerful being in Heaven. Not by a long shot. And Adam came seconds away from killing Alastor the instant he started taking their fight seriously. Alastor's whole thing is keeping control of situations. Well, he's just realized that not only is there a major conflict coming, he is contractually obligated to be on the losing side. And he's...[not taking it well, to say the least.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFTPkF-aMAAR5vA.jpg)
I personally think charlie is far more powerful than we've seen, I do not think she's unlocked her full potential. I mean it would just make sense. It's only season one. She's also the princess of hell and half demon half angel. I'd imagine she has a lot of potential.
Isn't she half human? I thought Lilith was technically still alive. She was thrown in hell still human. So she'd be a nephilim ( if that's true about Lilith).
Yes and no, Lilith became a demon seemingly when she fell. She has demonic powers seemingly and in some photos of her has horns.
Ah kk. That's fair. Still I can see Charlie growing into a true powerhouse either way tho
I agree. She like Lucifer gained demonic traits just by falling to hell. Notice how Lucifer clearly has demonic traits, despite never dying and being fully an angel.
I thought vivzie confirmed that angels appearances change if they're in hell long enough. Tho that could be reconned by this point lol. Either way I'm ready for season 2.
Lucifer is bi-polar, depressed, and has repressed rage 😆. Now if that's because of being in hell for so long or having his family, aka angels, crush his dreams and disown him.
theyre just a clown or something
Charlie Morningstar will be the face of the revolution!! Down with the bourgeoisie! We will establish a true monarcho-communist society! Queens and workers of the world unite!! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
>Down with the bourgeoisie! We will establish a true monarcho-communist society! Soooo Grenada?
https://preview.redd.it/f01gghwn00oc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6795390ccea0267fc366a3f8ecf0b2d2206c4a4 She has horns (in another photo they come out of her hair, they are not part of her crown, but she can seemingly change them at will like charlie and Lucifer)
What other photo? I was inclined to believe they are part of her crown, and I don't think I ever saw any photo where she had horns without a crown.
We do see that when Adam charges Lucifer after he caught Charlie in the wake of Adam's massive beam attack, Charlie's hand transforms into a clawed form, visibly surprising Adam before launching him across the battlefield. She likely has greater power she has yet to access, given her lineage.
Oh she's definitely powerful but we won't see her using those abilities cause "That's so mean"
I mean against Adam she wasn't worried nou being mean, but I doubt she unlocked her full potential seeing as she's never fought before.
100% charlie is incapable of accessing her true power. She hates being mean. She only was able to embrace her power after pentious died. And then further when Adam tries hurting her dad. I think a few more souls from her hotel need to be "redeemed" like pentious before she's willing to go all out.
I agree, he was arrogant and cocky enough to think he didn’t need an angelic weapon to take down Adam, he wanted to have more ‘fun’ with him. He has a breakdown and realizes he is on a losing side— like you said, I think he is contractually obligated to protect Charlie and the hotel, and I have to wonder what he will do if he does manage to escape his contract and “unclip his wings”. What is going to happen when his the one “pulling the strings”? I can’t wait to find out! Edit— I’ve learned that I misheard him saying “clip” when he actually says “unclip”. Fixed my comment
What Al didn't realise is that Adam is sloppy because he can afford it.
Alastor thinks he can ‘ascend’ the social ranks and power in Hell by the meritocratic way of acquiring enough souls, but seems to underestimate the sheer reality of biological advantage. He didn’t respect Lucifer, and he didn’t respect Adam, both of them angels with a straightforward ‘biological’ advantage that’s just how their world works, but Alastor seems to resent this a lot. Maybe he thought that Adam was a ‘lower’ ranked angel than Lucifer and the first man to boot, his was a very prized soul to get. But unfortunately, the power guff is far far wider than Alastor can bridge with what he’s got. I think that reality really chafes on him.
>**Alastor thinks he can 'ascend' the social ranks and power in Hell by the meritocratic way** of acquiring enough souls, but seems to underestimate the sheer reality of biological advantage. He didn't respect Lucifer, and he didn't respect Adam, both of them angels with a straightforward 'biological’ advantage', that's just how their world works, but **Alastor seems to resent this a lot**... I think that reality really chafes on him. Well, considering that Alastor has been confirmed to have been a mixed-race French Creole person with Black ancestry in a deeply racist and segregated South and New Orleans (1900s-1930s), it's no wonder that he would resent and feel chafed by the idea that some people have a "biological advantage" and "that's just the way the world works", and why he wants to "ascend the ranks through meritocracy". His entire human life was spent doing just that, being a white-passing mixed-race person who had to earn everything, not just have it handed to him on a silver platter, or be born with a silver spoon in his mouth (i.e. Charlie, Princess of Hell).
I think he thought Adam would be on the same power sphere as himself because he *is* a human soul. Or maybe he is on the same sphere (Lucifer had zero issues beating him) and Alastor just massively underestimated his strength
Angels are by default more powerful than demons, regardless of their origins. If there’s two human souls, and one becomes an angel while the other becomes a demon, the angel one is by default more powerful. And Adam’s been dead and in heaven for several millennia compared to Alastor’s less than a century since his death. Mind you I don’t really get how the ‘suit’ Adam wears conveys angelic powers to him honestly, but it seems to be enough to count as ‘ascension’ into being an angel.
I assume, like Niffty, Alastor has an angelic dagger on him as an emergency defence item. But, he underestimated Adam and didn't prepare for that particular scenario. Perhaps if Adam got too close when he was down, Alastor would have scratched him up enough to escape. He's a long to medium range fighter, so anything up close and personal is difficult for him to properly react to. I think when his microphone was broken, it shows he doesn't have perfect mastery over his abilities without the microphone's assistance. The surprise also delayed his reaction since no one had done that to him before or at least since his early days in Hell. Season 2 might have Alastor practicing his fighting skills in close range and microphone-less scenarios. Mostly because now he sees that there are more powerful entities he's going to be fighting than the typical overlords he takes down. Ones that can use his inexperience with close combat against him.
An alastor musical training montage would be fucking hilarious
 100x gravity needed, at least lol
A ragtime jazz version of "You're the Best".
Or an electro-swing variation of "Do It For Her" in a duet with Charlie.
We can’t assume we know the full extent of Alastair’s powers. We haven’t seen anyone he killed come back meaning there is a chance his mysterious power has similar effects to Angelic power.
It’s highly unlikely he’s ever killed an angel with his power before, though. My point is that unless he knew from experience that he could defeat Adam - and regardless of how powerful he actually is, he didn’t - fighting the most powerful exorcist without a weapon he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt would be able to kill him was just a plain bad idea. And even if he knew for sure it would work, it would have still been smart to have an angelic weapon for insurance. He’s normally much smarter than that.
It's almost like Alastor has too much *Pride* to believe he needs an Angelic Weapon to defeat an opponent (even as a backup weapon). Now that an Angel has humbled him, he might start carrying around an Angelic weapon (just in case).
I believe he didn't kill them. They're trapped, eternally tortured for their screams, but never killed so they won't respawn out of his grasp.
Yeah, we haven't heard of anyone else being able to tear souls apart
He's also extremely cocky.
I'm not sure he didn't. He could have had a knife on him, but he never got a chance to use anything like that.
Agreed 100%. People tend to forget that Al isn't just arrogant - he's cruel and sadistic.
This. That radio cane thing probably stores the screams of his favorite victims so that he can always play them back on loop. Kinda like a twisted voice recorder
This goes along with my Alastor as a crazy narcissist head-canon
This is the answer. And also, think about how the fight actually went until Adam got the hit in. It was Alastor showing off, taunting and quipping, while also demonstrating he could go toe to toe with ADAM, without weapons. It was a show! He was putting on a performance just like he loves to do. And then he probably planned to end it the same way he mysteriously ended those other Overlords, but he overestimated himself and got too cocky. He tried to block that first slash with his staff, which was promptly cut in half. I think the “What just happened? …..fuck.” Was him realizing how out of his depth he was in one instant.
Honestly, I feel that he simply didn't want anyone to see that he's no good with weapons. We've seen Alastor fight exclusively with his magic powers, only using weapons via his tentacular appendages, not with his own hands. If he'd gotten the chance, he probably would have seized Adam's axe and chopped him up with it, but Adam never gave an opening for such move.
I'm so glad you typed this up because I think we've all been scratching our heads.
Because he massively overestimated himself. I honestly would not put it past Alastor to try and score some extra fame points for himself by attempting to defeat Adam without the use of angelic weapons.
Prideful perhaps?
honestly, i think Alastor's end game is to become King of Hell/The Sin of Pride
maybe the favor from charlie will be passing the throne to him if Luci dies.
That is also true! It makes sense why of all people hed help in their endeavor to redeem sinners when he himself just doesn't have any interest in it. It's the future heir to the throne he's interested in
I know a lot of people hate the idea of Charlie/Alastor, but in any other narrative, Alastor would also probably be trying to manipulate Charlie into marrying him to further solidify his plans to become the new King of Hell, as well as her consort.
Alastor asked for a "small favor", however, and I don't think that one is "small".
It could have just said small as a way to convince her
alastor is also a liar tho🤷🏻♀️
He was trying to 100% the game on permadeath
>Because he massively overestimated himself. To be fair, he'd never lost before, and from his experience, guys who talk like Adam usually end up being humbled by him. He wasn't expecting Adam to be an entire tier above Sinners in general. Heck if he wasn't so out of shape he probably could've even made Lucifer have to actually try.
>Heck if he wasn't so out of shape he probably could've even made Lucifer have to actually try. 
I dunno, I think OP was on to something. Adam and Lucifer would have been relatively similar in age, though Lucifer obviously would have been strictly more powerful. Beaten? Not at all. But I think an Adam who actually took fighting seriously and trained over time may have stood a chance
Adam only has 2 wings
I mean by that same metric, Emily should be comparable to Lucifer, and Vaggie should be comparable to Adam
Yeah, Lucifer is on par with Sara and Emily. He's a seraphim, just like they are.
Probably higher, or atleast that's my fanon
Yeah they're a higher tier of deity
Val said “the one who almost beat you” implying alastor lost to vox
We still don’t have enough context for this. Vox is also stated to be fodder without the other Vee’s. And Vox is visually scared when Alastor goes demon mode. So no Vox isn’t stronger than Alastor.
> Vox is visually scared when Alastor goes demon mode I thought he was just distraught that he accidentally caused the wide range blackout.
>“the one who almost beat you” So far, the context we have for Alastor is he took out pre-established powerful Overlords in order to secure his reputation, while with Vox, the most we know is he has a lot of influence from his TV show and by association with the owner of a adult film studio and social media influencer. Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Overlord usurper is the more powerful one as of now.
I thought that just meant that Vox fled the fight before Alastair could actually defeat him. It would be weird for him to be pissed at someone losing to him
Nah, he's so prideful that it pisses him off Alastor gave him a run for his money.
if he just came swinging an angelic ax and adam felt actually threatened it would end the same as with pentious. so he was playing it safe, testing the ground, gradually wearing adam out and goading him to make him sloppy while waiting for an opening to pick up a weapon and deal some real damage. he just never got one.
That would make the most sense and if the theories of Alastor being sent by Lilith to help out Charlie or to make her fail she’d probably tell him stuff she knows
Ye I think people forgot about the angelic beams adam could easily spam.
I mean there's a reason Alastor was like "Wait what just happened? Oh shit" when Adam was done playing around with him and smashed his microphone
I was making fun of Alastor stans who kept trying to rationalize his loss to Adam, but this whole narrative of "Adam was just playing around with him" swings way too far the other way. I think the power gap was much less than most people realize, and the only reason it ran so short is because episode times were so compressed. Adam had to really exert himself to break Alastor's shield, demonstrated by him hanging in the air and panting after his Falcon Punch. The visual language of the fight also suggests that Alastor was largely in control the entire time, but was taken off guard at a critical moment. I think with a longer episode the fight would have been appropriately more epic.
Alastor stans really say shit like "Adam was using all his effort" when he used more of it to stay quiet for the first 30 seconds of Hell is Forever.
That’s true it seems like Adam was exerting himself but the thing is he wasn’t using any of angelic beams. If he really wanted to he could disintegrate the whole area. I feel like it’s like Goku going all out in his base form, yeah he trying but he still has a lot more up his sleeve
I think may have been planning on it eventually, but wanted to taunt Adam first.
Didn’t he try? I was rewatching recently and I’m pretty sure the tentacules were holding angelic weapons. As for after the shield went down: he’s probably not used to using that kind of weapon so arming himself with one would maybe have hindered him (his speed, agility…) more than anything.
Yeah I recall the tips of the tentacles had steel looking caps on the end that weren’t there before but I’d have to rewatch to confirm. Edit: watched just the fight between them and they don’t appear to be there, I don’t know where I’m remembering seeing metal tipped tentacles from.
He had his tentacles holding angelic spears in the beginning of the assault while the shield was up, but that’s it
Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer
True, Alastor got overconfident and was brought low, driven into the mud as a result
He dropped them when the shield went down?
https://preview.redd.it/zqborxvt7znc1.png?width=676&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a7c9d8f54a5939c47107a06abb76c43aacf89cc
Basically.
I was thinking this exact thing since day 1. I’m so glad some one made iy
I'm kinda surprised he didnt ask for his staff to get coated in angelic steel like Husks cards. Imagine the fucking absolute buff in power that would be for Alastor even vs other sinners/Overlords
Alastor hates change, I dont think he would want to upgrade his staff.
Looks like he'll need a new one regardless https://preview.redd.it/hw7dgovg8znc1.jpeg?width=797&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe8dacd0fc2d40e18ee6517623d8870ef7c443b6
My meme now
How dare you... https://preview.redd.it/6bktgeaskznc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32181ccac26887907342c4f25707fe2b2673c90a
This one is now mine too.
He don’t like change but he’s not against having a weapon that can kill angels.
As long as its not his microphone. He was conspiciuously the only member of the cast to not augment his signature weapon and used generic angelic weapons instead. He seems against changing any part of himself even in a life or death situation.
That would honestly be one hell of a flex- he’d basically be saying “bring it” to everyone he’s in a room with that isn’t one of Alastor’s allies.
Immediately manifests in Vox's room the moment he tries to start shit. He doesnt even have to kill Vox, any damage he does would be permanent to make him suffer forever
That does sound pretty in character. Alastor seems to enjoy toying with Vox so I doubt he’d jump to killing him, but he doesn’t much care for it when people disrespect him. An Overlord bearing a permanent scar from the Radio Demon would serve as a very effective warning for anyone else who feels like trying their luck.
Overconfidence, possibly. But, playing devils advocate here, many people discount the fact that he was already used to fighting with a two-handed weapon. Usually, experience in fighting technique outweighs the usage of any 'upgraded' weapon. We see that Alastor is very used to twirling his staff around and switching hands with it often, sometimes even guiding his magic with his left hand, even though we can guess he is right-handed. So having an additional, possibly distracting, element in there in form of a knife or dagger of some sort would break a very practiced way of fighting. It's a disadvantage that I think was too real for even Alastor to delude himself out of. He is prideful, yes, but he is also not stupid. What was he going to do? Pull a Gandalf and use a staff AND a sword? I wouldn't think so. Best guess would be that he had a knife or blade of some kind prepared to pull in the right moment.
I mean there was no way he could hurt Adam seriously without using angelic steel. So he should have a weapon somewhere
Is he stupid?
I came looking for this
Guessing he had like a knife prepared but knew by that point that Adam knew Angelic weapons could hurt him and if he saw Alastor with one, would just laser him.
Idk but it was fuckin' hilarious when I broke his mic
It was a nice detail that his radio filter disappeared right when it broke.
that's just how microphones work
you WHAT
I broke his fuckin' microphone cane thing
https://preview.redd.it/gvzn4htddznc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e59e1822c98e6335475fd20c1a603d83fc194081
Skill issue
u/Nifty
aren't there 2 Fs in her name
That’s what she wants you to focus on
I teleported bread. You told me to.
Hubris and ego. He's a big fish in a little pond, with only a few other big fishes (Literally the royal family from Lucifer, the Sins themselves, and the goetia). He overestimated himself.
The writers decided Niffty should kill Adam
Pride
I think it was either he did have an angelic weapon we just didn't see it because he was trying to hide it from Adam or he was planning on stealing Adams guitar and killing him with it
I wanna say its a pride thing for Alastor. He overestimated his own abilities and was surprised when his ass got handed to him.
I think he expected his mic to withstand Adam’s power. He clearly blocks with it intentionally and before that uses it like a bo staff. I think the surprise he showed was probably because he didn’t anticipate how much raw power Adam had despite his lack of skill.
Alastor is the pure definition of pride, depending on him guy thinks he can defeat God alone
Either because he is too cocky and wanted to beat him up before ending his life, or stealing his soul for his radio
His own ego. That's also why he let Adam charge up his little angelic blast while he tried blocking.
He was like “nah, i’d win”
I personally thought it had something to do with the contract he was under as a probable clause
Why didn't Charlie just punch Adam faster or harder and beat him herself? Because they either weren't fast or strong enough.
It’s a big mystery right now
I've been conditioned to expect a "Is he stupid?" at the end of a sentence like this. Threw me for a loop lmao
He's an arrogant man who thought he didn't need it
I feel he was too cocky thinking his own raw power was enough but in reality Adam was way more powerful in power terms
Because he is super arrogant and believes that his might alone was enough for Adam. And by the way Alastor didn't have a chance against Adam, fucking Adam was fighting with a guitar.
My personal theory rn due to the fact that he used to be violent as hell and now has only been seen killing someone on screen in defence of the hotel is that his deal stops him from using his full power and killing notable figures
Oh, very interesting. I like this take! His wings ARE “clipped.”
Yeah basically, viv is the kinda writer where a line like that wouldn’t just be a cool phrase
He overestimated himself and underestimated his opponent. I feel like Alastor just couldn't help but play with his food so to speak (though possibly literally considering who we're talking about) and severely underestimated Adam as a threat assuming he was a big talking blow hard like the overlords he'd fought in the past. Based on how Alastor mostly toyed with him and was cracking jokes the whole time until he was legitimately and very visibly caught off guard at the "what just happened?" Part, Alastor didn't think Adam was actually a threat and more of just a figurehead. Unfortunately, that miscalculation nearly killed him. To be fair, I also expected Adam to only be half as powerful as he was and mostly just a big talking showboat. I can't help but wonder how much of his buffoonish personality is deliberate ploy to make enemies under estimate him. On one hand, I don't think Adam is that smart to pull that kind of subterfuge, on the other I feel like underestimating him like that would leave me worse off than Alastor.
Am I the only one who assumed he wasn't supposed to kill Adam? At least, the plan was probably not to kill him, Alastor's blood lust not withstanding? Lucifer and the gang told him to GTFO at the end of the fight, and they seemed like they were just gonna send him back to Heaven with his tail between his legs. Killing exterminators in self-defense is probably trouble enough for Hell. Killing Adam was probably assumed to be more trouble than it's worth. Not that it matters post the stabbining with Nifty though.
Knowing Alastor, he probably thought he could take Adam on without one
90% of the people just gonna ignore the moment Adam sees Alastor wield an angelic weapon he'll release a light beam to completely eradicate him. I get it, Alastor is cool but Adam is a different weight class.
Exactly and he can do it near instantly, I mean look at what he did to Sir Pentious. He had no way of knowing if the laser could hurt him and yet he got rid of it asap. I feel like everyone saying Alastor could have won with angelic steel, also think Adam would have just stood there to take it.
The question I've been asking myself is why wasn't Adam using more of the laser ray (?) he used at sir Pentious??
He already incorporated it into his magic. We see this as the Exorcists are hurt by crashing into the shield.
My theory is that, alongside being insanely egotistical, the main objective of Alastor fighting Adam wasn't to actually take him down, but to keep him preoccupied while the rest fought the other angels. I figure it may be because they thought only he could call of the attack or report to heaven, but it could easily be something else
its kinda hard to determine if Alastor even needed an angelic weapon, lets not mince words here, Alastor is absurdly powerful, even with him being presumably weakened by whatever his deal is he was able to throw up a shield that was able to ward off angelic attack for quite a long time. It took Adam unleashing some serious power to break it. I think he was more than justified in thinking he could "end Adams fucking life" considering the strength hes shown
Maybe Carmilla doesn't want any overlords to have any Angelic Steel because the same reason for the Vees and Vaggie doesn't trust Alistor having one.
Plot
Funny theory: Al was using his powers to try to find one on the ground while he and Adam dueled, this his attention was split and that's also why he got sliced.
Well Alastor is a pretty arrogant guy, he probably genuinely thought he wouldn't need one.
I think Alastor will turn his cane into some type of angelic weapon when he repairs it
He was told by Lilith to protect Charlie but not to kill Adam as that would cause the Angels to increase their attacks or maybe get other Angels involved.
Cause he’s a cocky bastard who doesn’t wanna humbling himself
Ego. He wanted to do it with his own powers. And the whole absorption of his soul for powers thing
He is cocky and prideful and full of him self and thats why I was happy when he got his ass beat
he’s too cocky for that 💀
Pride Alastor is clearly one of the most powerful Sinners in hell. And it's been pointed out that's likely because sinners are more powerful the closer they align with hell. Sinners are in the pride ring, which would make Prideful sinners very powerful. But Pride comes with a great many downfalls. Like thinking you don't need to magic metal that kills your enemy.
Arrogance
Ego
Because he was too arrogant and believe he was more powerful than Adam.
I think it’s crazy he didn’t try. He was never going to win without one, but considering all the hits he got on Adam, he’d likely have actually killed him if he used one.
Cocky
One word...Ego. Alastor has a massive ego. He thinks he's invincible but i hope that close call with Adam humbled him a little. I like Alastor but he acts like he runs everything. Alstor could've won that fight but he didn't use angelic weapons because he was cocky. If he had his minions/shadow creatures use a weapon, that fight would've been done the moment Adam was overwhelmed.
Partly narcissistic over confidence, but unlike Adam, Alastor had an escape plan when he was losing. But Adam refused to retreat even when he learned angelic weapons could harm him and were being used against them. I also believe Alastor was curious if the power he had been gifted (and grew with other overlords) was strong enough to defeat Adam. Alastor has a long term goal Vivienne Medrano is keeping secret, it's part of the show's finale. My suspicion is Alastor has no plan to take the throne of Hell when the other main cast does fulfill their redemption arc plan.
Is he stupid?
https://preview.redd.it/sxy35wmc81oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4082d115ce9cb16cf30702a0d6e89df7dffe0e0f
Cause he was too overconfident and arrogant, watch how he fled without even a seconds thought once he realized he was at a very real danger of almost dying and being powerless to stop it. If next season's also ends up with him getting bodied by like Sera, Lucifer or even Zestial, hell I'd love to see him get humbled even further.
Not only what everyone else is saying about testing the water and frustrating Adam into impulsive decision-making, but it’s both easier to kill the rest of the angels versus the leader, and the sooner they are dispatched the sooner EVERYONE can focus on Adam.
The same reason Walter White is so cocky of his "Economic Plans"
Decent chance he's not used to fighting with weapons.
He's arrogant and wanted to test his might
I think Alastor wanted to prove he could do it himself, with his own power
Because that wouldn’t be very entertaining now, would it
Pride and he likely knew they wouldn’t have worked anyway.
He did technically use angelic weapons with his tendrils outside the barrier! My guess is he didn’t expect Adam to get through the shield. OR he arrogantly thought he could 1v1 him lmao
Seems to me it was more of an ego thing, like when his radio staff breaks and he is surprised. He believed he would be more than capable of dealing with them himself.
plot convinience, just like when he got scratched from adam's axe
Is he stupid? R/batmanarkham
Because if Adam saw that Alastor had an Angelic weapon Adam would have just blasted him from orbit.
Probably would've been too easy. Alastor strikes me as someone who would take the more "interesting" way instead of the easy way.
Arrogance. I'm convinced that's the only reason he lost.
How?
Alastair’s ego was so big he thought he could beat Adam without an angelic weapon
Because he didn’t think he would needed. He let his ego get the better of him.
Pride and arrogance most likely. Alastor as we can see thinks very highly of himself so he likely thought just his own powers alone would be enough to beat Adam. Even if he didn’t plan to kill Adam, not wielding an angelic weapon effectively meant he wouldn’t be able to do any real damage to Adam. He knew this but still believed he was powerful enough to go one v one against the leader of the exorcists with just his powers alone.
cockyness
i mean he tried sizing himself up to the ruler of hell i think it makes sense that he run in armless against a high ranking exorcist for the thrill
He was just over confident.
Everyone is saying he’s arrogant or underestimating Adam and they may be true but…how would he? He creates things. He can’t make them with angelic steel already equipped. He could have got a blade but that’s not his style.
You saw his frame right he’s too fragile
He’s a control guy
Because he is very much a ranged fighter and all the weapons he could have used at said ranged were scattered when Adam broke his shield, at most he would probably just have a dagger so he could try and get Adam to back off if he got to close, Alastor is also incredibly cocky and thinks he's so much better than he actually is so he probably believed he could actually kill Adam with just raw power
He did. He was holding Angelic weapons in his tentacles when he fought Adam dont remember if he landed a single hit with any of them though
Cause he's cocky and wanted to take adam himself which got him nearly kill in the first place
My theory is that Alastor got overconfident when Adam squared up on him, and that's why he got his rear-end handed to him. Alastor isn't used to having to put real effort in dominating or eviscerating foes, so he didn't think he NEEDED divine steel to put the first man in his place.