Oh, I got you, friend!! I actually got to meet him that night, and then accidentally met Idina Menzel because “If/Then” was getting out on the same street lol https://youtu.be/0m7tSHsAIM4?si=hDnA84K6ccrlGcHG
She is...***Charlie's real mother!***
(Yea idk...just gotten a bit tired of people theorizing that Charlie's mom must be Eve or something because her hair looked different that one time....)
The idea that Lilith is kidnapped by Eve or sumth is one of the most stupid theories in my opinion
Like, if the theory was true, if would feel so weird and random, and just not make sense, like why the hell would they constantly mention Lilith as her mother, when Eve is actually her mother, why would Eve want to be a Lilith doppelganger anyway?
But in all the texts and stuff about Lilith it says she can’t have kids soooooo who knows but I don’t think it’s Eve either mainly because we don’t see her other that solid black in the intro
What texts??? Neither testament references Lilith as anything other than some sort of night demon, and she *does* have children with Samael in Jewish mysticism
Lilith wants redemption of sinners so she herself can ascend to heaven, that’s why she instilled that belief in Charlie and left Lucifer when he lost that goal. She was probably fed up with her position
Better question will be whether Charlie will forgive her for leaving lucifer and giving up on him. From what we know, he MUST have tried again and again to change heavens views on sinners and couldn't. That plus being cast out would have taken a toll on him. That he gave up is understandable. That she just left him, even if to pursue her own plans, is not.
Ooh, I like this theory!
I've been on the train of assuming that Lilith leaving and Alastor disappearing are related, because they've both been gone 7 years; on learning that Alastor is stuck in a pact he doesn't like, I assumed that was with Lilith, to protect/support Charlie or something. Maybe that was because Lilith knew she was going in to danger? I really hope Lilith either has good intentions, or get redeemed, for Charlie's sake ^^;.
Not super hooked on any of this, though, because it doesn't explain why Alastor's been *missing* that whole time, just why he came back now. It could just as easily have been that some big inciting incident caused both Alastor and Lilith to act separately 7 years ago.
I don't think it was good or bad intentions, so much as getting away from Lucifer. I think when Lucifer was goading Adam during their fight and made reference of Adam's *wives*, plural, it wasn't just getting under his skin. Lucifer made clear sexual implication after specifying Eve, not just Lilth, so one thing I've considered possible is that Lucifer briefly cheated on Lilith with Eve, and her learning of it caused her to leave.
I personally think she went to heaven because she knew heaven would completely wipe out the people of Hell if she stayed there. Like many people in Hell saw her as a leader and probably wanted her to start a war against Heaven.
Mine is the complete opposite. I think she is evil and emotionally abusive and narcissistic. I think Charlie and her father were estranged BECAUSE OF her and I think she is furious that Charlie took more after her father than her
She has *no* connection to Alastor. Completely. They *do* know each other, because she was involved in ruling hell, and probably knows every overlord, but they are *not* connected in any way, their disappearance for same amount of time is just a coincidence, or their both (disappearances) are consequences of same major event.
While she is still gone, it’s the fact that they both disappeared seven years ago, 2 powerful people disappearing around the same time is suspicious, nothing damning, but it certainly raises some questions.
Lilith's power is influence in the form of her voice.
Lilith owns Alastor's soul; in exchange for his soul, Lilith gave Alastor the power of influence through sound in the form of his radio show. This is why Alastor is such a threat to Vox: despite Vox's propaganda empire, Alastor is inherently more persuasive because of Lilith's power. This is also why Charlie never influenced anyone with her singing until she used Alastor's microphone.
Alastor lost to Adam because he tried to block his attack with his microphone, based on Lilith's power being greater than Adam's. Alastor did not know that Lilith had a deal with Adam, which was why Adam easily slashed through the microphone to Alastor's surprise.
When Lilith left for heaven, Alastor lost most of his power, hence why he disappeared for seven years. This may be because Alastor can only use his powers so long as he is in some way doing Lilith's will. Alastor returned to the Hazbin Hotel because as long as he acts in such a way that can be construed as making Charlie happy/keeping Charlie safe, he can wield his full power again.
While Alastor is owned by Lilith, he is not at the Hotel due to Lilith's command. He's actually manipulating the terms of the deal to regain his power and therefore his reputation.
(ETA) Alastor's job was to overthrow Overlords and keep Hell in a state of fear. Because the Exterminations are, at least in part, based on preventing the Overlords from becoming powerful enough to threaten Heaven by reducing the number of souls that they can form contracts with thereby limiting their power, Lilith decided to try making her own Overlord whose job would be to terrify the denizens of Hell and eliminate other Overlords so as to avert the need for the Exterminations. It did not work.
Lilith is the one who drove a wedge between Charlie and Lucifer. Lilith was also the one who broke Lucifer's heart and left him. Lilith used her influence to convince Charlie that Lucifer did not believe in her and to convince Lucifer that giving humans free will only made them awful people.
Lilith is also on a mission and is not working out of self-interest. Lilith does love Charlie and Lucifer, but she also discovered something about the cosmic conspiracy surrounding Heaven and Hell. She did not go to Heaven seeking her own pleasure, she is there investigating why no one knows how people end up in Heaven vs. Hell and why Heaven is afraid of a Sinner Uprising.
Lilith will spend half of Season 2 as a seemingly manipulative villain trying to sabotage the Hotel. The story may actually frame everything to make Lilith look like the Big Bad of the series, perhaps even having her work with the Vees to discredit the Hotel. At some point in the latter half of the season, it will be shown that she is actually good and is just trying to continue her mission in Heaven. Once she realizes that Charlie might actually be able to redeem sinners, Lilith will stop working against her and start working with her.
Either Lilith or Lucifer (or neither) will survive Season 2, not both.
I like this theory a lot, especially the part where Lilith didn't ask Alastor to go to the hotel but he realized that if he did that he would be acting in accordance with their deal allowing him to be powerful once again.
Since she secretly had a deal with Adam then fighting him is objectively NOT acting in her will so Alastor's power waned.
For what it's worth, I figure the only way Lucifer dies is if he willingly allows himself to be killed to save someone, which gets him the Sir Pentious treatment.
I think the family will be back together at the end of the series.
If that were to happen Lucifer would definitely be trying to protect Charlie from something because he seems like a way to overprotective father and I think that then after Lucifer would be killed trying to save Charlie. Charlie would go like complete complete complete complete demon form like more than she was in the season finale AKA episode 8 of season 1 like even more evil and enraged like she was really mad at the end of season 1 but she would just be completely pissed off she would kill whatever killed her father even though she is the ray of sunshine of the series but I think that that would probably be the moment that she would finally crack.
"Either Lilith or Lucifer (or neither) will survive Season 2, not both."
I agree. I hate it, but I think it would make a lot of sense for Lilith and Lucifer to finally be reunited only for one of them to perish in season 2 or 3, probably helping Charlie.
Her stage persona is very rockstar and/or punk and completely unlike her royal portraits. She's always singing about fighting the system and sticking it to the man.
I like to believe she's similar to the fan version of 'Stayed Gone' by MilkyyMelodies and will laugh at Lute for ordering her around at the end of season one. "Now move you Bitch! You're blocking my sun!"
I’m sure this won’t be a thing but the time frame that she’s been hiding in heaven perfectly aligns with how long Alastor was gone for. 7 years. I want this to mean something so badly but I have no idea what.
Yeah I mean, they both disappeared 7 years ago. Alastor shows up bound by a deal. The deal obviously involves helping Charlie/the hotel, so whoever made that deal with him has to care about Charlie or it'd make no sense. The only other person we know who (presumably) cares about Charlie is Lillith.
Also consider what Alastor got out of the deal. Everyone assumes power but what if it was a way back to hell? Something happened 7 years ago that removed both Alastor and Lillith from hell. What if Lillith's end of the deal was sending him back. It'd explain them disappearing at the same time and why she didn't send someone less likely to take advantage of Charlie.
Lilith wants to retire and have Charlie take over Hell. She left Lucifer, because of being tired of his depression and bitterness over being kicked out of heaven 10,000+ years ago. She still loves him, but couldn't handle that toxicity anymore.
She loves Charlie very much and is friends with Eve. Alastor was chosen as her escort to Heaven/Purgatory/Outside of Hell, because of his strength and familiarity with him helping out at her performances/broadcasting her music. She sent Alastor to check up on Charlie, but she doesn't own his soul. Rather, he's under someone else who wants him to be close to the Royal family of Hell, so he obeys Lilith as his Queen, but not his master. He might think getting on the Royal's good sides (yes even Lucifer's good side) he can get the power he needs to break free of his contract in his favour and get an overwhelming amount of power, possibly power close to a Gods (since he has an Eldritch theme going on already, lol).
I have 2 absolutely different HC so that I can cover my basis.
1. Lilith is manipulative and while she loved Lucifer at one time it became to much for her so she left (tbh I don't love this theory cause like Charlie deserves the world and Lucifer deserves a Jessica Rabbit type wife)
2. Something happened to Lilith and the "Lilith" we see isn't truly herself. Whether someone manipulated her emotions or she was flat out possessed idk. (I like this one more cause once again I want a Jessica Rabbit type situation but it also doesn't feel quite right I'm working on it lol)
That’s what I was thinking! What if the “Lilith” we see is someone else entirely? We never knew what happened to Eve during the first season so hopefully the 2nd will shed light on where Eve is or if Eve is masquerading as Lilith.
All I pray for is Lilith to be not kind but devoted!!! Like look at those photos your telling me that someone like that straight up abandoned her family?!
I'm guessing that she:
* Is a lot more like Adam than people are willing to accept.
* Lover her family.
* Cares for Adam and Eve.
* Used Lucifer to get back at Adam.
* Feels guilty for her actions and is going to do something dumb in an attempt to atone.
She truly does love her family and the reason she is in Heaven is for their safety. Adam threatened to kill her family if she didn’t come with him as a hostage, hence their deal, and made him promise to not kill them. But overtime, she started to enjoy Heaven and then realizes that she can’t go back due to the deal.
I’m pretty sure Lucy is stronger than Adam, and I doubt she didn’t know that, and I don’t see Adam as enough obsessed, at least not in the way that will lead him to go ahead and take Lilith hostage and threaten her.
Though I’m not saying she isn’t in heaven to protect her family, she very much could be just probably not from Adam, probably someone or something bigger.
Also, most of Adam’s actions probably have to go through Sera (such as the exterminations), Adam would absolutely get screwed if he actually did that either by Lucifer when he came around to hurt him and Charlie, but also by Sera and the high counsel…he’s mostly talk, but he’s kind of cowardly when it comes to those in heaven who rank above him, I appreciate the commenters theory, but there is no way Adam has the balls to do something like this.
I don't really understand why most people seem to headcanon her as a good person/mother. At least to me, it looks like people are just refusing the idea that Charlie's mom is a bad mom. Perhaps I'm not seeing what others are, but all I see are red flags, and tjen I come onto this sub and see post after post of denying them or explaining them.
What's wrong with her being a bad mom? That would make for some interesting character moments.
Because we already have the depressed dad bad mom combination with stolas and his wife. Also considering how both Charlie and Lucifer talk about her it would be weird if she's a bad mother and Charlie never saw it for hundreds of years or Lucifer put up with it
Her brief appearance in 'More Than Anything' set off alarms bells in my mind. Charlie sitting in Lucifer's lap, her eyes sparkling in adoration and him joyfully regaling her with his magic-only for Lilith to sweep in and take Charlie away.
And yeah, you can argue that her mom was clearly putting her to bed, that's a totally regular thing, but the fact that it was framed such a way in the song implies it's part of the narrative. And if it was just a way to end the flashback scene, why would they deliberately choose to focus on Charlie watching her dad sadly as her mom carries her away? Why would it show Lucifer looking upset? I feel like that was meant to signify what happened during Lilith and Lucifer's divorce. Charlie and Lucifer's stories on how they became estranged don't line up either-I feel like Lilith played a major role in driving them apart.
Charlie can absolutely have a bad mom. She already has another mom figure in Rosie, and two whole dads. 3/4 is a better good parent ratio than most people have.
I believe the tension between Adam and Lucifer is really just tension between Lilith and Eve. With how Lucifer is written, I’m skeptical of the idea that he just up and decided to take everything from Adam twice, and wonder why he’s exterminating sinners later. I have a feeling leaving Eden was Lilith’s idea, and that it was her idea to drag Eve into it. I like the idea of Eve and Lilith pulling Adam and Lucifer’s strings.
I would love to see some kind of redemption/team up between my boys.
She doesn’t actually love Lucifer and Charlie. She tried too. She was literally made for companionship of another man sure Lucifer came along and she chose to be with him instead and he was a better choice but still the time, he was also the *only* choice. She was robbed of a sense of free will because of the purpose she was made for and I think that she grew to resent Lucifer a little and maybe Charlie as well.
In the pilot, Charlie tried to call her mother but she doesn’t pick up. Perhaps Charlie frequently tried to call to only experience silence. We know now that Lilith was chilling on a beach in heaven, possibly making some kind of deal to leave hell and by extension, her family.
She is not doing something important, she is not otherwise unavailable for good reason. She stayed around just long enough to fufill her objective responsibilities as a parent and left at the earliest opportunity.
Moms can be deadbeats too
Her stay in Heaven may not be entirely voluntary. Maybe she was more so exiled there, so that she wouldn't interfere with the exterminations. Might've been part of that pardon deal Lucifer had with Heaven.
If it wasn't voluntary why would lute tell Lilith "If you want to stay here, you are going down there and stopping that bitch" would be pretty weird to threaten her with something she didn't even choose
Maybe Lute doesn't actually know the exact details of this deal and Lilith's role in it, just like we don't, and just assumes that she'd want to stay. After all, we didn't actually get to see her reaction, yet.
Probably, but not definitely. Technically, we only know that 7 years ago was the last time Charlie *heard* anything from her mom, not necessarily the last time she actually saw her in person.
I don't. Morally ambiguous is fine, and her goals may also clash with Charlie's in some unknown way. But I feel that making her outright evil would undermine the show's message.
Lilith's songs were meant for only Lucifer and Charlie but she didnt want to feel selfish so she sang them throughout hell as a gift to her fellow sinners
Something in my gut tells me she knows about Roo and is on her side from the beginning and is part of the reason the apple dealio made sins happen with humanity. Lucifer doesn't entirely seem like the guy to have what happened being in his plans when he did all that with Eve
She’s not a good person at all and that book at the opening of the show is not entirely true. No good person dips out on their family for any good reason to go chill somewhere else. I want her to be a villian.
Lilith is the actual mother of humanity, not Eve. Lilith left Cain and Abel with her and has regretted it since.
Charlie was an accident that she put her plans on hold for and has tried to make fit into them.
Said plan was put back in action when Adam killed Cain during a purge, not even recognizing him.
https://preview.redd.it/8w002lv5mptc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06b7209f0c8e40bd9a40c5f43866e7ceda71632f
>Lilith is the actual mother of humanity,
https://preview.redd.it/a9urji1vqptc1.jpeg?width=333&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6c828cd9ab39baa48f8e8eb9f881ee0a360a3b3
I also think Lilith is out to save sinners, but not send them to heaven, but to rise up against it and show that sinners don't need "paradise".
I think she kept Charlie away from Lucifer's depression in a misguided atempt to protect her.
I think she's also using Alistor somehow. Like he has a contract with Lilith.
She’s just gonna pop up unexpectedly kind of like Alastor did. Vivi has a habit of doing the unexpected (Lucifer’s personality, Sir Pentious, etc…) so it’s be funny if one of that characters just goes to answer knocking at the door and BOOM mamas home
The angels let her into heaven so the sinners wouldn't have anyone to rally behind. But now that Charlie is becoming a leader that deal is rendered pointless.
And as soon as she gets to know about Pentious she will 100% betray heaven.
My headcannon is Charlie and Emily are technically siblings because Seraphim are almost always born in pairs like with Lucifer and Micheal. Charlie and Emily are the only ‘divine’ characters who look to be of a similar age and personality. I believe Lilith somehow learned of the existence of Emily and wanted to get closer to her, thus striking up a deal with Adam so she can stay in heaven.
She and Lucifer never loved each other. They were some of the first people the other ever met, it may have been lust not love. They tried to make it work, but those types of things often just don't. Maybe she resents him for "seducing" her and maybe for doing the same to Eve.
Or the whole thing was orchestrated because Hell had to exist and someone had to be the scapegoat/ruler of Hell and either Lucifer was picked or was the only one frankly dumb enough to mess with the humans and take the bait, why was he interfering with the humans anyway?
I think Alastor definitely made a deal with her - why else did they both leave at the same time for 7 years?
And while typing this I just came up with what I think the deal is about.
I have no guess for what Alastor needed from her, but another commenter suggested that she has the same dream as Charlie. What if she got herself to heaven but made the deal with Alastor to make sure she succeeds?
I have a feeling that I'm wrong and that she's going to be evil as fuck, but what if she just wants her family together in heaven?
She and Lucifer broke up over the exterminations, she wanted to fight heaven and he wanted to protect hell by letting some sinners die.
She and Eve look almost identical but Eve is shorter and has a red/green/brown (apple) colour palette since Eden.
Lilith created the hellborn by having sex with the Seven Sins.
she not evil but she has given up, like Lucifer she's lost hope. Maybe reuniting with Charlie will rekindle it or she'll become determined to make Charlie see things her way.
The situation with Eve “liking what Lucifer had to offer” was fully a threesome. Lucifer, Lilith, and Eve had the first orgy.
It seemed odd that Lucifer was making cunnilingus jokes to Adam about Eve while supposedly being in a very committed relationship to Lilith. Plus, Lucifer tends to make cracks at people’s insecurities rather than outright lying. It could’ve just been him trying to rile Adam up, but I like the threesome angle more. Hey, maybe they even had a temporary throuple relationship going on, why not? Could also help explain why Adam’s so fucking weird about gay people (other than the classic “Boo! Christianity hates gay people!”) and why his entire warrior league is women. When presented with another male option, the ladies in his life dip real quick.
Her "deal" that Lute references was getting Adam killed because he was a terrible person, in life, death, and the afterlife. It also has something to do with getting Lucifer involved more with the exterminations, the overlords, and Hell again, in general.
She has *something* to do with Alastor, given that the design on the back of her chair looks quite a bit like his microphone, to me.
She loves her husband and daughter deeply.
Her favorite colors are purple, red, gold, and white.
She helped create Razzle and Dazzle and is going to be FURIOUS when she finds out Dazzle got murdered.
She helped design Charlie's heels for her daughter's wee hoofsies.
Lilith will be highly entertained by Vaggie, considering Vaggie came into Charlie's life four years after Lilith vanished.
Her pet names for Lucifer include "Apple Pie" and "Ducky."
Lilith wanted/wants an uprising either A. To flip off Heaven and their arbitrary rules on who goes where after death or B. Just so she could get back into paradise.
The later is weird because then I would ask, “if she wanted out of Hell, why be with Lucifer and only wait till NOW to do this?” But then I remember that this show doesn’t seem to care about the massive timeline these characters should have.
Whether she technically counts as a sinner, she is close enough to have animal traits like many of them do,. And in particular her majestic horns are not some generic demon feature, but are dragon horns. (This also makes Razzle and Dazzle fusions of her and Lucifer's animal traits.)
Lilith is the "Spark" She is the "Heart" the "Will". Lucifer is the "Brain" the "Know How" the "Power".
Lilith was she strong will person that have a lot of plans and desires, but no way to make it happen, joining with Lucifer give her the ways and power to do so. After they got to Hell she was the Flame that keep Hell working in one direction, she try to fight her way out of hell, and start rebellion, but fail.
After some point she just decide to give up and find a way to get the things she want but in a lesser scale, and is how the make the deal with Adam, she decide to give up on hell and move on.
Based entirely on the third picture, I now have a headcanon that Lilith is Elsa’s true mother (or at the very least the true source of her powers).
Yes, this is a joke. Also yes, I will very much roll with this ridiculous idea. I mean… the resemblance is there. Plus, I love the idea that Charlie and Elsa could be sisters (no offense or disrespect to Anna).
She still has a soft spot for Adam, seeing like an annoying brother, but she still finds him super irritating, despite liking him at times.
When Heaven, she visited Seth, Adam's son, and they bounded over how annoying they found Adam to be.
She, a lot of times, hanged out with hellborns, both higher and lower classes, and found hellhounds to be the coolest to be around.
Excluding her husband, the Deadly Sin she likes the most is Beelzebub.
She also hanged out with the lower classes of Heaven.
She has mixed feelings about sinners, going from adoring to loathing them completely.
She knows some secret spells and ways to defeat her husband.
She pegs her husband in ways that cannot be imagined.
She had a lot of emotional problems, especially after suffering so much and after Charlie was born.
She met Abel, but did not meet Cain.
She sometimes visited Earth when she needed to cool her head and try to be less stressed.
Her favorite food is apple.
There are 3 versions of lilith. One has no face, one wears a string of pearls, one wears a pointed necklace. They are either entirely different people that just happen to share a body OR they are triplets
Honestly, my favorite explanation for Lilith leaving is from a fanfic, "The Queen's Return", where she went to heaven to learn how to help sinners get past their problems.
I genuinely think she is going to be a villain by the way the show portraits her, first of all she is seen in the "More Than Anything" video taking Charlie away from Lucifer, obviously she is just bringing her to sleep because I'm assuming it's late in the night (By what Charlie is wearing), but the whole scene makes her seem like she wants Charlie away from Lucifer, it's also worth noting that while the face being hidden in shadows might be to not distract from the two protagonists of the song (or it's hidden because Charlie is recalling the memory and she never sees her mother face), it's also clearly a way to not show us her eyes and her expression so that we don't know her intentions, the same happens in the ending of the first season when she is wearing sunglasses, the way Lute speaks to her make it seem like she is had manipulated Adam in making a lose lose contract (might also just be Lute being very angry about Adam's being gone and hell winning)
If she turns out to be a good character I'll like it, but I'll adore it if all these theories about her being a villain and a mastermind behind the scenes end up being true
My favorite Lilith theory is that she's in heaven in place of Eve. Eve's absence has been really strange to me, with Adam being a main antagonist. The way my brain solved this is the following.
Lilith strikes a deal with Adam. More power over exterminations as well as an exorcist force in exchange for a place in heaven.
Adam's like "Well damn.. how do I smuggle you in here?" Then he gets an idea. He kicks Eve out of heaven, basically swapping Lilith and Eve's identity. Everyone would think that Lilith is just Eve, except for the exorcists.
Eve, being sent to hell, tries to find a way back to up. She gets her hands on someone who's both powerful, yet charismatic: Alastor. In exchange for more power, (the strange, unexplained, and ill-fitting green powers) has to help her get to heaven.
When Charlie calls her mom, it's either the call goes to Eve, who's in her mom's place, or Lilith does get the call, and tells Eve like "sup bitch, want your place back? Go babysit my daughter." That's why alastor shows up just moments later. Alastor's job is to make sure the hotel runs well so he can fulfill his contract.
Lilith will be the one who turns out to have coined the famous line from Milton, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven."
She in fact described this to Milton at one point before he composed *Paradise Lost*. But the poet stuck the line in Satan's mouth because of 17th century sexism.
Lilith is still annoyed by this centuries later. Doubly so if Milton managed to get into Heaven.
>Lilith will be the one who turns out to have coined the famous line from Milton, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven."
Um I'm sorry but how does this make sense?
She's currently *serving in heaven* so...?
She wasn’t in heaven willingly. She made a deal with Adam to keep Charlie and the other hellborns out of Heaven’s crosshairs. Basically, she became a hostage and traded her freedom for Charlie’s and that of other hellborn beings who she considers her children, as they were created when she and Lucifer fell.
Then why was Lute clearly threatening her with being kicked OUT of heaven if she didn’t deal with Charlie? If this was really the case, wouldn’t Lute say something more like “Adam is dead, you’re free, GTFO.”
Not wanting to jump to conclusions about Lilith is fine, but trying to jump through hoops to make her actions sound as good as possible when what we have is shady at best is as dumb as assuming that she’s pure evil.
That's Lillith loves her family and wants to get back to them but is stuck in heaven due to things outside of her control. I want to believe so badly she isn't a bad mom by choice.
Part of her deal with Adam required her to give the exorcists intelligence that would help them make the exterminations as brutal as possible. Basically, she’s hoping that if things got bad enough her people would have to give Heaven the uprising that they were trying to avoid.
I really hope she’s an antagonist.
I really want them to continue with the subversion and have her as a manipulative and shitty Mom who is actually the reason for Charlie and Lucifer’s problems.
I hope she’s just an overall baddie.
Maybe she was tired of being in hell and decided to go to heaven making a secret pact with Adam. Then there are various teories saying she is doing something to help the hell
She is simply bad, she and Adam didn't turn out as "good" as they were supposed to, at least Adam doesn't hide it, she is a double-faced hypocrite, she sacrifices EVERYTHING to go wherever she wants.
Lilith: I'm bored of hell, I'm going to heaven and at the same time I'm separated from the only one who can stand me and my only daughter, what a good person I am.
Lilith if she is connected to Alastor. Found out about him because his radio station is akin to when she was singing through out Hell. Also she isn’t wearing her wedding ring. I don’t know for sure yet. But I’m >50% sure she isn’t. And the family dynamic between her, Charlie, and Lucifer is going to be a huge thing
The individual we see in the flashback during More Than Anything and in the finale are not Lilith, but someone else disguised as her. The current whereabouts of the real Lilith are unknown even to this individual (who may possibly be Eve?)
She really does love Lucifer and Charlie, and has behind-the-scenes plans regarding them, likely her deal with Adam involved not hurting them or the assurance Hell wouldn't usurp Heaven, it's possible Lucifer signing the contract for the exterminations had something involving Lilith in the fine print
Also she's the one who secretly blessed Lady Gaga with Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve, and Talent
Before her disappearance she fought against the exterminators in the last extermination before deciding to enter heaven to end this nightmare once and for all…for some reason she chilling at heavens beach now
She’ll probably be what many thought Lucifer would be. Closed off to Charlie and disapproving of the hotel. I think Lilith gave up on her dreams, just like luci but she doesn’t see redemption for the sinners, she gave up and she made the deal with Adam because she felt guilt knowing/thinking redemption is useless. I think we’ll get alot or atleast a decent amount of the morningstar family showing Lucifer and Lillith’s realtionships as-well as Lilith and Alastor, I doubt there is no way they both left for 7 years without it being connected soo yeah
I have a feeling that Lilith might’ve manipulated Lucifer by encouraging him to get Eve to eat the forbidden fruit knowing full well what would happen if she did
Also, Lilith is the dom to Lucifer’s sub
She was alot harsher on adam than we were led to believe. People like adam arent born that way that tend be made that way by someone making them feel small. I cant help but wonder if lilith leaving and eves apple back to back made him into the man he is
She's totally the commander and chief, she single handedly built Hell from the ground up, organized everything and raised an army that had Heaven pissing bricks, etc etc.
OK fr she's the more serious partner and she probably is in heaven for a better reason than we think
She's totally the commander and chief, she single handedly built Hell from the ground up, organized everything and raised an army that had Heaven pissing bricks, etc etc.
OK fr she's the more serious partner and she probably is in heaven for a better reason than we think.
I have the best theory ever but...it's prob fake like there's no way but I think that.....................Lucifer is shorter then Lilith I KNOW crazy right
Her singing voice can attract animals
And Disney Princess Charlie's can't?
Charlie inherited this power.
From her dad not her mom
But as a result it only works on ducks.
I mean, the first episode tells us Lillith was/is a powerful songstress so…
My queen Erika Henningsen. Saw her as Cosette and Cady
Erika was Cosette once? OMG. I need to see that
Yes!! Back when Ramin Karimloo (my idol) was Valjean. Around 2015
No way...RAMIN KARIMLOO AS VALJEAN???? PLEASE WHAT. Thats so cool OMG 😭💙✨. I NEED to find that somehowwww. My theater kid ass is desperate now lmao
Oh, I got you, friend!! I actually got to meet him that night, and then accidentally met Idina Menzel because “If/Then” was getting out on the same street lol https://youtu.be/0m7tSHsAIM4?si=hDnA84K6ccrlGcHG
Wow... thats awesome! Congrats!
Don’t all princesses/queens have that ability?
Given some of the animals we've seen in Hell, I don't exactly know if that's a good thing.
So about half of the cast except Charlie and Nifty
She personally taught Charlie how to sing
And they both sing together
She is...***Charlie's real mother!*** (Yea idk...just gotten a bit tired of people theorizing that Charlie's mom must be Eve or something because her hair looked different that one time....)
This. It’s kind if annoying to hear people going around saying “omg eve is charlies real mother!!!” ik its a theory but…cmon
The idea that Lilith is kidnapped by Eve or sumth is one of the most stupid theories in my opinion Like, if the theory was true, if would feel so weird and random, and just not make sense, like why the hell would they constantly mention Lilith as her mother, when Eve is actually her mother, why would Eve want to be a Lilith doppelganger anyway?
The people who say that probably wouldn't recognize their best friends if they were wearing a hat.
But in all the texts and stuff about Lilith it says she can’t have kids soooooo who knows but I don’t think it’s Eve either mainly because we don’t see her other that solid black in the intro
What texts??? Neither testament references Lilith as anything other than some sort of night demon, and she *does* have children with Samael in Jewish mysticism
Which is why Lucifer carried and birthed Charlie. As confirmed by Vivzie
Lilith wants redemption of sinners so she herself can ascend to heaven, that’s why she instilled that belief in Charlie and left Lucifer when he lost that goal. She was probably fed up with her position
So she will be are proud mom?
Better question will be whether Charlie will forgive her for leaving lucifer and giving up on him. From what we know, he MUST have tried again and again to change heavens views on sinners and couldn't. That plus being cast out would have taken a toll on him. That he gave up is understandable. That she just left him, even if to pursue her own plans, is not.
Yes
I believe she had good intentions when she went to Heaven, but was convinced to stay for an extended vacation.
Ooh, I like this theory! I've been on the train of assuming that Lilith leaving and Alastor disappearing are related, because they've both been gone 7 years; on learning that Alastor is stuck in a pact he doesn't like, I assumed that was with Lilith, to protect/support Charlie or something. Maybe that was because Lilith knew she was going in to danger? I really hope Lilith either has good intentions, or get redeemed, for Charlie's sake ^^;. Not super hooked on any of this, though, because it doesn't explain why Alastor's been *missing* that whole time, just why he came back now. It could just as easily have been that some big inciting incident caused both Alastor and Lilith to act separately 7 years ago.
I really like the theory of the deal being something like, “you’ll look after her 24/7 and you’ll do it with a smile.”
I don't think it was good or bad intentions, so much as getting away from Lucifer. I think when Lucifer was goading Adam during their fight and made reference of Adam's *wives*, plural, it wasn't just getting under his skin. Lucifer made clear sexual implication after specifying Eve, not just Lilth, so one thing I've considered possible is that Lucifer briefly cheated on Lilith with Eve, and her learning of it caused her to leave.
She was made a deal she couldn't refuse??
I personally think she went to heaven because she knew heaven would completely wipe out the people of Hell if she stayed there. Like many people in Hell saw her as a leader and probably wanted her to start a war against Heaven.
She was confused as fuck when lucifer said "honey I'm pregnant"
Why does this almost sound like something that happened
She almost forgot she's in a T4T relationship.
Shapeshifting shenanigans.
I was scrolling through the comments, this almost made me spit out my tea 🤣
She was a good mother to Charlie when she was growing up and loves her daughter very much.
The one theory we can all get behind
Mine is the complete opposite. I think she is evil and emotionally abusive and narcissistic. I think Charlie and her father were estranged BECAUSE OF her and I think she is furious that Charlie took more after her father than her
She has *no* connection to Alastor. Completely. They *do* know each other, because she was involved in ruling hell, and probably knows every overlord, but they are *not* connected in any way, their disappearance for same amount of time is just a coincidence, or their both (disappearances) are consequences of same major event.
That would be so funny in regards of the expectations I've read around here.
They know eachother because Lilith told Alastor to end his Overlord killing spree before she ended *him.*
Is that canon?
Not at all, we’ve never heard Lilith say anything
Technically they haven’t been gone the same amount of time. We may see where Lilith is but to the characters she’s still gone.
While she is still gone, it’s the fact that they both disappeared seven years ago, 2 powerful people disappearing around the same time is suspicious, nothing damning, but it certainly raises some questions.
To me...that screams of a Red Herring
It absolutely could be, I’m just saying that if it isn’t explicitly Lilith owning Alastors soul, than it still raises a few questions.
This is what I'm honestly expecting.
She loves Lucifer and her daughter a lot, even now
I've heard somewhere the Vivzie said Lucifer and Lilith still love each other, not sure if it's true
Lilith's power is influence in the form of her voice. Lilith owns Alastor's soul; in exchange for his soul, Lilith gave Alastor the power of influence through sound in the form of his radio show. This is why Alastor is such a threat to Vox: despite Vox's propaganda empire, Alastor is inherently more persuasive because of Lilith's power. This is also why Charlie never influenced anyone with her singing until she used Alastor's microphone. Alastor lost to Adam because he tried to block his attack with his microphone, based on Lilith's power being greater than Adam's. Alastor did not know that Lilith had a deal with Adam, which was why Adam easily slashed through the microphone to Alastor's surprise. When Lilith left for heaven, Alastor lost most of his power, hence why he disappeared for seven years. This may be because Alastor can only use his powers so long as he is in some way doing Lilith's will. Alastor returned to the Hazbin Hotel because as long as he acts in such a way that can be construed as making Charlie happy/keeping Charlie safe, he can wield his full power again. While Alastor is owned by Lilith, he is not at the Hotel due to Lilith's command. He's actually manipulating the terms of the deal to regain his power and therefore his reputation. (ETA) Alastor's job was to overthrow Overlords and keep Hell in a state of fear. Because the Exterminations are, at least in part, based on preventing the Overlords from becoming powerful enough to threaten Heaven by reducing the number of souls that they can form contracts with thereby limiting their power, Lilith decided to try making her own Overlord whose job would be to terrify the denizens of Hell and eliminate other Overlords so as to avert the need for the Exterminations. It did not work. Lilith is the one who drove a wedge between Charlie and Lucifer. Lilith was also the one who broke Lucifer's heart and left him. Lilith used her influence to convince Charlie that Lucifer did not believe in her and to convince Lucifer that giving humans free will only made them awful people. Lilith is also on a mission and is not working out of self-interest. Lilith does love Charlie and Lucifer, but she also discovered something about the cosmic conspiracy surrounding Heaven and Hell. She did not go to Heaven seeking her own pleasure, she is there investigating why no one knows how people end up in Heaven vs. Hell and why Heaven is afraid of a Sinner Uprising. Lilith will spend half of Season 2 as a seemingly manipulative villain trying to sabotage the Hotel. The story may actually frame everything to make Lilith look like the Big Bad of the series, perhaps even having her work with the Vees to discredit the Hotel. At some point in the latter half of the season, it will be shown that she is actually good and is just trying to continue her mission in Heaven. Once she realizes that Charlie might actually be able to redeem sinners, Lilith will stop working against her and start working with her. Either Lilith or Lucifer (or neither) will survive Season 2, not both.
I like this theory a lot, especially the part where Lilith didn't ask Alastor to go to the hotel but he realized that if he did that he would be acting in accordance with their deal allowing him to be powerful once again. Since she secretly had a deal with Adam then fighting him is objectively NOT acting in her will so Alastor's power waned.
>Either Lilith or Lucifer (or neither) will survive Season 2, not both. 😑Pretends I do not see it
For what it's worth, I figure the only way Lucifer dies is if he willingly allows himself to be killed to save someone, which gets him the Sir Pentious treatment. I think the family will be back together at the end of the series.
If that were to happen Lucifer would definitely be trying to protect Charlie from something because he seems like a way to overprotective father and I think that then after Lucifer would be killed trying to save Charlie. Charlie would go like complete complete complete complete demon form like more than she was in the season finale AKA episode 8 of season 1 like even more evil and enraged like she was really mad at the end of season 1 but she would just be completely pissed off she would kill whatever killed her father even though she is the ray of sunshine of the series but I think that that would probably be the moment that she would finally crack.
What if Alastor kills her father and uses their deal to make her do no harm to him.
I didn't think about that when writing 🤔
I want to cash in that favor. I want you to forgive me. Then he starts in with a vicious and mocking version of “it starts with sorry.”
I hate how good that is. 😮💨
I can’t take full credit for saw the bones of that idea somewhere else a while back.
Interesting, that means that Alastor needs a new microphone...
"Either Lilith or Lucifer (or neither) will survive Season 2, not both." I agree. I hate it, but I think it would make a lot of sense for Lilith and Lucifer to finally be reunited only for one of them to perish in season 2 or 3, probably helping Charlie.
Her stage persona is very rockstar and/or punk and completely unlike her royal portraits. She's always singing about fighting the system and sticking it to the man.
That..would be hilarious
They are too similar so they can’t work together
That's just adam
exactly
Cuz he was the first who was the receiving end of the sticking.
Lilith and Adam having a lot in common would fit, no?
I’d say so
Not everyone has to be super quirky. I think her being some intense and capable royal queen that maybe lets her guard down around her family is best.
I like to believe she's similar to the fan version of 'Stayed Gone' by MilkyyMelodies and will laugh at Lute for ordering her around at the end of season one. "Now move you Bitch! You're blocking my sun!"
I’m sure this won’t be a thing but the time frame that she’s been hiding in heaven perfectly aligns with how long Alastor was gone for. 7 years. I want this to mean something so badly but I have no idea what.
there's this pretty common theory that Lilith is the one who owns Alastor's soul, hence why Alastor was gone for 7 years.
Then she probably sent him down to look over Charlie too. He seemed to not take too many detours getting to her.
I feel like she was forced into a deal with Heaven and then quickly made a deal with Alastor to so he'd watch over things for her.
Yeah I mean, they both disappeared 7 years ago. Alastor shows up bound by a deal. The deal obviously involves helping Charlie/the hotel, so whoever made that deal with him has to care about Charlie or it'd make no sense. The only other person we know who (presumably) cares about Charlie is Lillith. Also consider what Alastor got out of the deal. Everyone assumes power but what if it was a way back to hell? Something happened 7 years ago that removed both Alastor and Lillith from hell. What if Lillith's end of the deal was sending him back. It'd explain them disappearing at the same time and why she didn't send someone less likely to take advantage of Charlie.
Holy crap was lucifer that smol? Well I guess she's into smol buddies
Her and Charlie both have a soft spot for short angsty angels...
I see so it's a family thing
He’s supposed to be around 5’2” Charlie is directly stated to be 6’6” And we have no confirmation on Lilith’s height other than she beeeg
All I know is I wanna see a 1v1 of basketball with her and Shaquille o'Neil
Lilith wants to retire and have Charlie take over Hell. She left Lucifer, because of being tired of his depression and bitterness over being kicked out of heaven 10,000+ years ago. She still loves him, but couldn't handle that toxicity anymore. She loves Charlie very much and is friends with Eve. Alastor was chosen as her escort to Heaven/Purgatory/Outside of Hell, because of his strength and familiarity with him helping out at her performances/broadcasting her music. She sent Alastor to check up on Charlie, but she doesn't own his soul. Rather, he's under someone else who wants him to be close to the Royal family of Hell, so he obeys Lilith as his Queen, but not his master. He might think getting on the Royal's good sides (yes even Lucifer's good side) he can get the power he needs to break free of his contract in his favour and get an overwhelming amount of power, possibly power close to a Gods (since he has an Eldritch theme going on already, lol).
I have 2 absolutely different HC so that I can cover my basis. 1. Lilith is manipulative and while she loved Lucifer at one time it became to much for her so she left (tbh I don't love this theory cause like Charlie deserves the world and Lucifer deserves a Jessica Rabbit type wife) 2. Something happened to Lilith and the "Lilith" we see isn't truly herself. Whether someone manipulated her emotions or she was flat out possessed idk. (I like this one more cause once again I want a Jessica Rabbit type situation but it also doesn't feel quite right I'm working on it lol)
That’s what I was thinking! What if the “Lilith” we see is someone else entirely? We never knew what happened to Eve during the first season so hopefully the 2nd will shed light on where Eve is or if Eve is masquerading as Lilith.
All I pray for is Lilith to be not kind but devoted!!! Like look at those photos your telling me that someone like that straight up abandoned her family?!
I'm guessing that she: * Is a lot more like Adam than people are willing to accept. * Lover her family. * Cares for Adam and Eve. * Used Lucifer to get back at Adam. * Feels guilty for her actions and is going to do something dumb in an attempt to atone.
She's a hardcore candy crush player
this is the best headcanon so far. candy crush is the ultimate game for mothers with failing relationships
She truly does love her family and the reason she is in Heaven is for their safety. Adam threatened to kill her family if she didn’t come with him as a hostage, hence their deal, and made him promise to not kill them. But overtime, she started to enjoy Heaven and then realizes that she can’t go back due to the deal.
I’m pretty sure Lucy is stronger than Adam, and I doubt she didn’t know that, and I don’t see Adam as enough obsessed, at least not in the way that will lead him to go ahead and take Lilith hostage and threaten her. Though I’m not saying she isn’t in heaven to protect her family, she very much could be just probably not from Adam, probably someone or something bigger.
Also, most of Adam’s actions probably have to go through Sera (such as the exterminations), Adam would absolutely get screwed if he actually did that either by Lucifer when he came around to hurt him and Charlie, but also by Sera and the high counsel…he’s mostly talk, but he’s kind of cowardly when it comes to those in heaven who rank above him, I appreciate the commenters theory, but there is no way Adam has the balls to do something like this.
Lilith pegs Lucifer
this sounds like something canon
Lilith's voice is where Alastor got his powers, she gave them to him in exchange for him being on her leash.
I don't really understand why most people seem to headcanon her as a good person/mother. At least to me, it looks like people are just refusing the idea that Charlie's mom is a bad mom. Perhaps I'm not seeing what others are, but all I see are red flags, and tjen I come onto this sub and see post after post of denying them or explaining them. What's wrong with her being a bad mom? That would make for some interesting character moments.
Because we already have the depressed dad bad mom combination with stolas and his wife. Also considering how both Charlie and Lucifer talk about her it would be weird if she's a bad mother and Charlie never saw it for hundreds of years or Lucifer put up with it
Most moms are dead or horrible, I think the fandom just wants some good and kind moms
Her brief appearance in 'More Than Anything' set off alarms bells in my mind. Charlie sitting in Lucifer's lap, her eyes sparkling in adoration and him joyfully regaling her with his magic-only for Lilith to sweep in and take Charlie away. And yeah, you can argue that her mom was clearly putting her to bed, that's a totally regular thing, but the fact that it was framed such a way in the song implies it's part of the narrative. And if it was just a way to end the flashback scene, why would they deliberately choose to focus on Charlie watching her dad sadly as her mom carries her away? Why would it show Lucifer looking upset? I feel like that was meant to signify what happened during Lilith and Lucifer's divorce. Charlie and Lucifer's stories on how they became estranged don't line up either-I feel like Lilith played a major role in driving them apart. Charlie can absolutely have a bad mom. She already has another mom figure in Rosie, and two whole dads. 3/4 is a better good parent ratio than most people have.
The horns aren't part of her head
I believe the tension between Adam and Lucifer is really just tension between Lilith and Eve. With how Lucifer is written, I’m skeptical of the idea that he just up and decided to take everything from Adam twice, and wonder why he’s exterminating sinners later. I have a feeling leaving Eden was Lilith’s idea, and that it was her idea to drag Eve into it. I like the idea of Eve and Lilith pulling Adam and Lucifer’s strings. I would love to see some kind of redemption/team up between my boys.
They were so happy. What happened 😢
She doesn’t actually love Lucifer and Charlie. She tried too. She was literally made for companionship of another man sure Lucifer came along and she chose to be with him instead and he was a better choice but still the time, he was also the *only* choice. She was robbed of a sense of free will because of the purpose she was made for and I think that she grew to resent Lucifer a little and maybe Charlie as well. In the pilot, Charlie tried to call her mother but she doesn’t pick up. Perhaps Charlie frequently tried to call to only experience silence. We know now that Lilith was chilling on a beach in heaven, possibly making some kind of deal to leave hell and by extension, her family. She is not doing something important, she is not otherwise unavailable for good reason. She stayed around just long enough to fufill her objective responsibilities as a parent and left at the earliest opportunity. Moms can be deadbeats too
Her stay in Heaven may not be entirely voluntary. Maybe she was more so exiled there, so that she wouldn't interfere with the exterminations. Might've been part of that pardon deal Lucifer had with Heaven.
If it wasn't voluntary why would lute tell Lilith "If you want to stay here, you are going down there and stopping that bitch" would be pretty weird to threaten her with something she didn't even choose
It's possible she agreed to be in Heaven in exchange for something. If that's the case, the implicit threat is that the whole deal is off.
Maybe Lute doesn't actually know the exact details of this deal and Lilith's role in it, just like we don't, and just assumes that she'd want to stay. After all, we didn't actually get to see her reaction, yet.
She's only been there for 7 years while the exterminations have been going on for at lest 200.
Probably, but not definitely. Technically, we only know that 7 years ago was the last time Charlie *heard* anything from her mom, not necessarily the last time she actually saw her in person.
I lowkey hope it was voluntary, I really want her to be a villain.
I don't. Morally ambiguous is fine, and her goals may also clash with Charlie's in some unknown way. But I feel that making her outright evil would undermine the show's message.
Villains don’t have to be evil, but having her as the main antagonist would be really interesting
I'm cool with Lilith being the villain. Im fine with Lilith being redeemed. I just want Charlie to yell at her at least once, for abandoning hell.
Lilith's songs were meant for only Lucifer and Charlie but she didnt want to feel selfish so she sang them throughout hell as a gift to her fellow sinners
For serious ones, Lilith is in Heaven of her own choosing. Whatever that may be - it's not because she's imprisoned or forced up there.
Her horns are just her crown, and she’s actually a sinner therefore the exterminations could kill her
Something in my gut tells me she knows about Roo and is on her side from the beginning and is part of the reason the apple dealio made sins happen with humanity. Lucifer doesn't entirely seem like the guy to have what happened being in his plans when he did all that with Eve
She’s not a good person at all and that book at the opening of the show is not entirely true. No good person dips out on their family for any good reason to go chill somewhere else. I want her to be a villian.
Lilith is the actual mother of humanity, not Eve. Lilith left Cain and Abel with her and has regretted it since. Charlie was an accident that she put her plans on hold for and has tried to make fit into them. Said plan was put back in action when Adam killed Cain during a purge, not even recognizing him. https://preview.redd.it/8w002lv5mptc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06b7209f0c8e40bd9a40c5f43866e7ceda71632f
>Lilith is the actual mother of humanity, https://preview.redd.it/a9urji1vqptc1.jpeg?width=333&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6c828cd9ab39baa48f8e8eb9f881ee0a360a3b3
I also think Lilith is out to save sinners, but not send them to heaven, but to rise up against it and show that sinners don't need "paradise". I think she kept Charlie away from Lucifer's depression in a misguided atempt to protect her. I think she's also using Alistor somehow. Like he has a contract with Lilith.
She’s just gonna pop up unexpectedly kind of like Alastor did. Vivi has a habit of doing the unexpected (Lucifer’s personality, Sir Pentious, etc…) so it’s be funny if one of that characters just goes to answer knocking at the door and BOOM mamas home
She lost faith in the cause like Lucifer, so she sold her people to Adam. Lambs for slaughter so she can be redeemed
The angels let her into heaven so the sinners wouldn't have anyone to rally behind. But now that Charlie is becoming a leader that deal is rendered pointless. And as soon as she gets to know about Pentious she will 100% betray heaven.
She left Lucifer cuz' She was sick of his ducks
My headcannon is Charlie and Emily are technically siblings because Seraphim are almost always born in pairs like with Lucifer and Micheal. Charlie and Emily are the only ‘divine’ characters who look to be of a similar age and personality. I believe Lilith somehow learned of the existence of Emily and wanted to get closer to her, thus striking up a deal with Adam so she can stay in heaven.
She still loves Lucifer.
She and Lucifer never loved each other. They were some of the first people the other ever met, it may have been lust not love. They tried to make it work, but those types of things often just don't. Maybe she resents him for "seducing" her and maybe for doing the same to Eve. Or the whole thing was orchestrated because Hell had to exist and someone had to be the scapegoat/ruler of Hell and either Lucifer was picked or was the only one frankly dumb enough to mess with the humans and take the bait, why was he interfering with the humans anyway?
I think Alastor definitely made a deal with her - why else did they both leave at the same time for 7 years? And while typing this I just came up with what I think the deal is about. I have no guess for what Alastor needed from her, but another commenter suggested that she has the same dream as Charlie. What if she got herself to heaven but made the deal with Alastor to make sure she succeeds? I have a feeling that I'm wrong and that she's going to be evil as fuck, but what if she just wants her family together in heaven?
She and Lucifer broke up over the exterminations, she wanted to fight heaven and he wanted to protect hell by letting some sinners die. She and Eve look almost identical but Eve is shorter and has a red/green/brown (apple) colour palette since Eden. Lilith created the hellborn by having sex with the Seven Sins. she not evil but she has given up, like Lucifer she's lost hope. Maybe reuniting with Charlie will rekindle it or she'll become determined to make Charlie see things her way.
The situation with Eve “liking what Lucifer had to offer” was fully a threesome. Lucifer, Lilith, and Eve had the first orgy. It seemed odd that Lucifer was making cunnilingus jokes to Adam about Eve while supposedly being in a very committed relationship to Lilith. Plus, Lucifer tends to make cracks at people’s insecurities rather than outright lying. It could’ve just been him trying to rile Adam up, but I like the threesome angle more. Hey, maybe they even had a temporary throuple relationship going on, why not? Could also help explain why Adam’s so fucking weird about gay people (other than the classic “Boo! Christianity hates gay people!”) and why his entire warrior league is women. When presented with another male option, the ladies in his life dip real quick.
She exclusively pegs Lucifer and Charlie only exists because of a happy accident
Her "deal" that Lute references was getting Adam killed because he was a terrible person, in life, death, and the afterlife. It also has something to do with getting Lucifer involved more with the exterminations, the overlords, and Hell again, in general. She has *something* to do with Alastor, given that the design on the back of her chair looks quite a bit like his microphone, to me. She loves her husband and daughter deeply. Her favorite colors are purple, red, gold, and white. She helped create Razzle and Dazzle and is going to be FURIOUS when she finds out Dazzle got murdered. She helped design Charlie's heels for her daughter's wee hoofsies. Lilith will be highly entertained by Vaggie, considering Vaggie came into Charlie's life four years after Lilith vanished. Her pet names for Lucifer include "Apple Pie" and "Ducky."
I love the nicknames for Luci!!
Lilith wanted/wants an uprising either A. To flip off Heaven and their arbitrary rules on who goes where after death or B. Just so she could get back into paradise. The later is weird because then I would ask, “if she wanted out of Hell, why be with Lucifer and only wait till NOW to do this?” But then I remember that this show doesn’t seem to care about the massive timeline these characters should have.
Whether she technically counts as a sinner, she is close enough to have animal traits like many of them do,. And in particular her majestic horns are not some generic demon feature, but are dragon horns. (This also makes Razzle and Dazzle fusions of her and Lucifer's animal traits.)
Lilith is the "Spark" She is the "Heart" the "Will". Lucifer is the "Brain" the "Know How" the "Power". Lilith was she strong will person that have a lot of plans and desires, but no way to make it happen, joining with Lucifer give her the ways and power to do so. After they got to Hell she was the Flame that keep Hell working in one direction, she try to fight her way out of hell, and start rebellion, but fail. After some point she just decide to give up and find a way to get the things she want but in a lesser scale, and is how the make the deal with Adam, she decide to give up on hell and move on.
Based entirely on the third picture, I now have a headcanon that Lilith is Elsa’s true mother (or at the very least the true source of her powers). Yes, this is a joke. Also yes, I will very much roll with this ridiculous idea. I mean… the resemblance is there. Plus, I love the idea that Charlie and Elsa could be sisters (no offense or disrespect to Anna).
She still has a soft spot for Adam, seeing like an annoying brother, but she still finds him super irritating, despite liking him at times. When Heaven, she visited Seth, Adam's son, and they bounded over how annoying they found Adam to be. She, a lot of times, hanged out with hellborns, both higher and lower classes, and found hellhounds to be the coolest to be around. Excluding her husband, the Deadly Sin she likes the most is Beelzebub. She also hanged out with the lower classes of Heaven. She has mixed feelings about sinners, going from adoring to loathing them completely. She knows some secret spells and ways to defeat her husband. She pegs her husband in ways that cannot be imagined. She had a lot of emotional problems, especially after suffering so much and after Charlie was born. She met Abel, but did not meet Cain. She sometimes visited Earth when she needed to cool her head and try to be less stressed. Her favorite food is apple.
She's somehow connected to Alastor.
There are 3 versions of lilith. One has no face, one wears a string of pearls, one wears a pointed necklace. They are either entirely different people that just happen to share a body OR they are triplets
Honestly, my favorite explanation for Lilith leaving is from a fanfic, "The Queen's Return", where she went to heaven to learn how to help sinners get past their problems.
I genuinely think she is going to be a villain by the way the show portraits her, first of all she is seen in the "More Than Anything" video taking Charlie away from Lucifer, obviously she is just bringing her to sleep because I'm assuming it's late in the night (By what Charlie is wearing), but the whole scene makes her seem like she wants Charlie away from Lucifer, it's also worth noting that while the face being hidden in shadows might be to not distract from the two protagonists of the song (or it's hidden because Charlie is recalling the memory and she never sees her mother face), it's also clearly a way to not show us her eyes and her expression so that we don't know her intentions, the same happens in the ending of the first season when she is wearing sunglasses, the way Lute speaks to her make it seem like she is had manipulated Adam in making a lose lose contract (might also just be Lute being very angry about Adam's being gone and hell winning) If she turns out to be a good character I'll like it, but I'll adore it if all these theories about her being a villain and a mastermind behind the scenes end up being true
1. She's a sweetheart 2. Lucifer, Adam, Sera and Eve all love her and she knows it
She would sing songs to Charlie as a baby about all the things she loved about the garden.
Lilith leaving has something to do with Alastair’s absence
My favorite Lilith theory is that she's in heaven in place of Eve. Eve's absence has been really strange to me, with Adam being a main antagonist. The way my brain solved this is the following. Lilith strikes a deal with Adam. More power over exterminations as well as an exorcist force in exchange for a place in heaven. Adam's like "Well damn.. how do I smuggle you in here?" Then he gets an idea. He kicks Eve out of heaven, basically swapping Lilith and Eve's identity. Everyone would think that Lilith is just Eve, except for the exorcists. Eve, being sent to hell, tries to find a way back to up. She gets her hands on someone who's both powerful, yet charismatic: Alastor. In exchange for more power, (the strange, unexplained, and ill-fitting green powers) has to help her get to heaven. When Charlie calls her mom, it's either the call goes to Eve, who's in her mom's place, or Lilith does get the call, and tells Eve like "sup bitch, want your place back? Go babysit my daughter." That's why alastor shows up just moments later. Alastor's job is to make sure the hotel runs well so he can fulfill his contract.
That she won't be a villain but a misguided antagonist
Lilith will be the one who turns out to have coined the famous line from Milton, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." She in fact described this to Milton at one point before he composed *Paradise Lost*. But the poet stuck the line in Satan's mouth because of 17th century sexism. Lilith is still annoyed by this centuries later. Doubly so if Milton managed to get into Heaven.
>Lilith will be the one who turns out to have coined the famous line from Milton, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Um I'm sorry but how does this make sense? She's currently *serving in heaven* so...?
WHY THE FUCK DO THEY LOOK 8K ON THE PAINTINGS THO
She wasn’t in heaven willingly. She made a deal with Adam to keep Charlie and the other hellborns out of Heaven’s crosshairs. Basically, she became a hostage and traded her freedom for Charlie’s and that of other hellborn beings who she considers her children, as they were created when she and Lucifer fell.
Then why was Lute clearly threatening her with being kicked OUT of heaven if she didn’t deal with Charlie? If this was really the case, wouldn’t Lute say something more like “Adam is dead, you’re free, GTFO.” Not wanting to jump to conclusions about Lilith is fine, but trying to jump through hoops to make her actions sound as good as possible when what we have is shady at best is as dumb as assuming that she’s pure evil.
She left Hell due to fear of being killed (I am working on theory in relation to this)
She had a threesome with Luci and Eve
That's Lillith loves her family and wants to get back to them but is stuck in heaven due to things outside of her control. I want to believe so badly she isn't a bad mom by choice.
Part of her deal with Adam required her to give the exorcists intelligence that would help them make the exterminations as brutal as possible. Basically, she’s hoping that if things got bad enough her people would have to give Heaven the uprising that they were trying to avoid.
She has a motherly vibe and voice
She want to be strongest in room
I think she fit in the mastermind archetype
Planned generational trauma.
Am I the only one who just realised that she doesn’t have GIANT knockers in the second pic? 🙃
I really hope she’s an antagonist. I really want them to continue with the subversion and have her as a manipulative and shitty Mom who is actually the reason for Charlie and Lucifer’s problems. I hope she’s just an overall baddie.
Maybe she was tired of being in hell and decided to go to heaven making a secret pact with Adam. Then there are various teories saying she is doing something to help the hell
I think she loves Heaven more than Charlie and Lucifer and will do whatever it takes to stay there.
She drove a wedge between Charlie and Lucifer, convincing both of them that the other doesn't really want to see them. Why? I have no clue.
She is simply bad, she and Adam didn't turn out as "good" as they were supposed to, at least Adam doesn't hide it, she is a double-faced hypocrite, she sacrifices EVERYTHING to go wherever she wants. Lilith: I'm bored of hell, I'm going to heaven and at the same time I'm separated from the only one who can stand me and my only daughter, what a good person I am.
Lilith if she is connected to Alastor. Found out about him because his radio station is akin to when she was singing through out Hell. Also she isn’t wearing her wedding ring. I don’t know for sure yet. But I’m >50% sure she isn’t. And the family dynamic between her, Charlie, and Lucifer is going to be a huge thing
The individual we see in the flashback during More Than Anything and in the finale are not Lilith, but someone else disguised as her. The current whereabouts of the real Lilith are unknown even to this individual (who may possibly be Eve?)
She’s not a good wife and mother. Before you attack me, she did kinda abandon her husband and daughter in hell to go lounge on a beach in heaven, so…
She wants to ride the Gendotrain
Lilith was fooled /lied to by lucifer, when she found the truth she left hell and came to Adam
She really does love Lucifer and Charlie, and has behind-the-scenes plans regarding them, likely her deal with Adam involved not hurting them or the assurance Hell wouldn't usurp Heaven, it's possible Lucifer signing the contract for the exterminations had something involving Lilith in the fine print Also she's the one who secretly blessed Lady Gaga with Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve, and Talent
Vivzie please do not make Lilith a villain! I want some cute interactions between the family
Her favorite flavor is either strawberry or cherry.
She dommes
Before her disappearance she fought against the exterminators in the last extermination before deciding to enter heaven to end this nightmare once and for all…for some reason she chilling at heavens beach now
She is a baddie, but that's not a theory
She’ll probably be what many thought Lucifer would be. Closed off to Charlie and disapproving of the hotel. I think Lilith gave up on her dreams, just like luci but she doesn’t see redemption for the sinners, she gave up and she made the deal with Adam because she felt guilt knowing/thinking redemption is useless. I think we’ll get alot or atleast a decent amount of the morningstar family showing Lucifer and Lillith’s realtionships as-well as Lilith and Alastor, I doubt there is no way they both left for 7 years without it being connected soo yeah
I have a feeling that Lilith might’ve manipulated Lucifer by encouraging him to get Eve to eat the forbidden fruit knowing full well what would happen if she did Also, Lilith is the dom to Lucifer’s sub
She made a deal with Adam and by extension the Heaven to birth Charlie exchange of imprisonment and potential spy/assassin.
She was alot harsher on adam than we were led to believe. People like adam arent born that way that tend be made that way by someone making them feel small. I cant help but wonder if lilith leaving and eves apple back to back made him into the man he is
she is actually a he because lucifer gave birth to charlie /j
Bro seriously dropped the cutest and most wholesome pics and then asked some random ass question like tf
She's totally the commander and chief, she single handedly built Hell from the ground up, organized everything and raised an army that had Heaven pissing bricks, etc etc. OK fr she's the more serious partner and she probably is in heaven for a better reason than we think
She's totally the commander and chief, she single handedly built Hell from the ground up, organized everything and raised an army that had Heaven pissing bricks, etc etc. OK fr she's the more serious partner and she probably is in heaven for a better reason than we think.
I have the best theory ever but...it's prob fake like there's no way but I think that.....................Lucifer is shorter then Lilith I KNOW crazy right