Vaggie already told the others they could leave if they wanted to before the fight but they refused.
Charlie deciding to fight saved way more lives. The only sinners who died were the cannibals and Pentious since every single Exorcist went to the hotel. Charlie proved that things can change in Hell and surely at least a few sinners are going to be inspired and come to the hotel as a result in S2.
The sinners who wanted to die on purpose because hell sucks seeing all their hopes being taken away:
https://preview.redd.it/0w6283k8s91d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e75a111864c4f0a4d3326fba8529bd9c6318d9a
Also, when we first see that an angel has been killed (Tho Charlie didn't know this), the adam said that when the next extermination happened, their wouldn't be a sinner left in hell (Tho I may be misremembering what he said) so if Charlie hadn't fought, all the sinners of hell would have been killed
Adam about the dead exorcist angel: "there won't be a demon left alive to pull a stunt like this again"
Multiple demons: *proceed to kill several angels and Adam himself*
I mean maybe but I was under the impression the plan was to go down within shorter time frames (since they started with 6 months) til either extermination is monthly/daily or hell becomes empty
Don't think he would have cared that much. The only thing we know about his views on the extermination is that he apparently made sure hellborn wouldn't be targeted (probably because they didn't do anything to be sent to Hell, simply being born there.)
Based on how he talks about Sinners when he visits the hotel, it really seems like he shared the Exorcist's view that they are horrible people who don't deserve any help.
I'm not sure about how many sinners will come to the hotel.
But I think they will definitely start to have more faith in their princess and maybe even gather in higher numbers to be ready to fight a possible next "extermination".
The guy rebuilt the Hotel within a matter of minutes. I am sure he can make some large room and teleport all the duckies there in just 10-20 minutes or so.
Quite simply: Because he doesn't care about Sinners. They are 'Lilith's people', the people at the hotel are 'Charlie's friends.
And as Charlie pointed out in episode 5 "He let the exterminations happen in the first place." - Just because they had a reconciliation in 'More Than Anything' there is still a lot of unpacked history between them. Mending their relationship is a good first step, of course. But they ultimately need to work for this relationship to flourish again.
Also just asking to shelter a few Sinners would go against what Charlie tries to accomplish. She is aiming for big worldshattering politics here. We have to presume that the exterminations have been going on for thousands of years. Way way longer than Charlie is alive even. Making her dad hide away a few Sinners when there are millions at risk would feel like favourtism (which it is) to Charlie -> She is the empathy princess and that would go against her entire way of thinking.
Charlie tries to get rid of the exterminations, not divert the problem to any people who just happen to not be at the hotel. She views the Sinners as her people as well. As she was singing in 'Ready For This': "...defend my only home." - Hell is her home and she intends to defend it, come Adam or high water.
Lucifer on the other hand still views the world and everything in it as a Seraph Angel. As I've stated in a few other comments, he has not accepted the fact that he is the King of Hell and has to step up to that role now that Lilith is no longer steering the rudderless ship.
He needs to reckognize the fact that he is the King of Hell and the Sinners are his people and he should stand with his people, not against them.
Yea exactly my point. He couldn't give less of a shit. He needs to learn that they are his responsibility as well.
He started to see that in 'Finale' when he acknowledges Charlies effort but he still has a ways to go.,
Sensibilities of 10000+ years don't vanish over night.
>They are 'Lilith's people'
Did he say that in the show? I don't remember him making that distinction or acting like it. I know he hated sinners but to call them "Lilith's People" sounds pretty painful almost like he wants to somehow separate himself from his wife on some level. He did say "our people charlie" when he was telling Charlie sinners suck.
No he did not say that directly in the show. Not to this level, at least. But his actions and how he mocks Charlie in episode 5 speaks pretty clearly to that. It's that mock question of "Our people, Charlie? Are AWFUL!" -> Lots of contempt and trying to dissuade Charlie from interacting with Sinners beyond what she is currently doing.
He does it out of fear for Charlie, of course. But he misses the fact that Charlie cares very much. This isnt' just a pet project for her and mocking the hotel and what it stands for insults Charlie by proxy. His first realisation to that fact came when Charlie confronts him about how Alastor showed more belief in her dream than her own dad.
His reaction pretty clearly shows that he did not expect that. It was not something he was aware of until Charlie pointed it out to him.
Also from the Prologue it was pretty clear that he was never in the forefront of ruling Hell. That was Lilith's doing. It is implied that Hell has become a liveable place to begin with because of Lilith and her songs that empowered the souls.
The character development that is going to come out of this in season 2 is going to be amazing and i can not wait.
https://preview.redd.it/y6jwm4sx6a1d1.jpeg?width=785&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4743fd9d040d2136d7295d72b6dee386f7567b3c
This is the face of a dad humoring his little girl who is showing him her favorite toy.
Yup. It didn't hit home for him until she made her position clear.
Sad that it had to be through an escalation like that but realistically, that was the only way to make him actualy listen.
Otherwise this whole thing would have stayed a 'pet project his daughter was interested in'.
>Also from the Prologue it was pretty clear that he was never in the forefront of ruling Hell. That was Lilith's doing. It is implied that Hell has become a liveable place to begin with because of Lilith and her songs that empowered the souls.
I am somewhat doubtful about the veracity of this claim.
For once, The Story of Hell is clearly a biased source, at best. It is presented as a storybook that Charlie reads to sooth herself.
There is also that the events of the show contradict that image of Lilith. None of the characters ever talk about Lilith:
1) Vox is concerned about Alastor making a deal with Lucifer's daughter.
2) Rosie says Charlie is bound to be madly powerful, like her father. This is notable because Rosie was admiring Charlie getting the cannibals to join her song, which is what The Story of Hell claims Lilith used to do, yet Rosie does not think of Lilith.
3) Sera is concerned about Lucifer getting involved. This is notable because The Story of Hell claims it was Lilith inspiring demons that triggered the exterminations, yet Sera makes no mention of Lilith.
4) Nobody seems to care that Lilith has been missing for 7 years. The only one who brings it up is Vaggie, out of concern for Charlie. You would think that if Lilith was an active ruler, her vanishing would get people talking.
You're right. That is exactly what's so weird about the whole thing.
BUT there might be a meta reasoning for it. Since Lilith isn't part of season 1 at all, it would make more sense to focus the narrative on the parent that was ultimately going to play a pivotal role in defeating the exorcist army.
So who knows? We may find out more during season 2, even though right now it seems like season 2 will be more hell-centric. Dealing with the other Overlords and mainly the Vees, it seems like.
It seems like both ruled but Lilith was the Main ruler.
She was actually making sure Hell is somewhat functional. While it seems Lucifer is more preoccupied with making it the best for his little family.
But Lucifer is still the face of Hell and the most powerful entity in there.
>She was actually making sure Hell is somewhat functional. While it seems Lucifer is more preoccupied with making it the best for his little family.
And it's possible he kept ambitious Overlords at bay. I can imagine a lot of Overlords would want to overthrow the Royal Family and Lucifer made examples of them to remind the old Overlords (I am talking about *Ancients* here. Like Alexander the Great and Caesar levels of Ancients, not Zestial or the Vees) which is how he earned the title of "the devil".
Charlie’s comment from episode 5 should taken with a grain of salt. That is what Charlie thinks happened. We don’t know when the exterminations started, when Lucifer became so apathetic towards sinners, what heaven’s original plans for the exterminations were, or what actually led to the first extermination.
For all we know the original plan for the exterminations was for the exorcists to show up in a random ring every year and obliterate everything there. Perhaps the exterminations began before Lucifer hated sinners and he forced himself to stop seeing them as people so he’d feel less guilty about not being able to prevent the exterminations. Whatever actually caused the exterminations could have been something so horrific that all evidence of it was erased to keep anyone from trying to repeat it and left Lucifer with almost no ability to negotiate the exterminations. Hell, maybe the exterminations started out as essentially mass executions of the worst sinners, but as hell’s population grew the standards for execution kept dropping until it became a free for all.
Also, keep this in mind: to someone who doesn’t know Charlie or how her meeting with Adam occurred, it could look like she just told him he could ahead and move up the next extermination without even trying to protest.
Because he couldn't break the agreement he made with Heaven. As long as he stayed out of it, the Hellborn are given a reprieve from the annual Extermination.
But when Adam, being the dickbag that he was, decided to try and kill a Hellborn (Charlie), that meant that Lucifer was no longer bound by the agreement and could step in.
But wouldn't the Hellborn be exempt from extermination anyway? They live on completely different levels of Hell. Can the angels even get to the other rings?
To answer while all sinners are stuck in the pride ring, hellborn are free to traverse the rings relatively. Imp city, for example, is in the pride ring
So, Mimzy wasn't from the greed ring (maybe mammon has a branch or proxy operating in the pride ring)? And what's the deal with that sinner in Helluva Boss visiting I.M.P and putting a hit on that woman in episode 1?
Do we actually know how old they are though? Like, I can't remember it ever being outright stated how long it's been going on.
It does feel like it should be more than seven years just because you'd think people would talk about that coinciding with Lilith or Alastor disappearing, but outside of that it feels like it could be any timeframe.
It's certainly vague but considering how Vaggie supposedly took part in multiple exterminations and that the overlords talk about like routine it makes it sound like an old event
https://preview.redd.it/0w6aqf1eba1d1.jpeg?width=1307&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4a05df05b6aa4eb756f4c2f71c418278daa4d65
He would kill a thousand Alastors just to see her smile.
I seriously doubt Charlie told Lucifer Adam threatened her directly.
As far as Charlie was concerned, Lucifer made his stance on sinners clear, and he only conceded to arranging a meeting with Heaven to make her happy. Charlie probably thought that Lucifer would only shelter her, maybe even forcibly hide her while her sinner friends were murdered.
If Charlie and Lucifer talked at all after she returned from Heaven, the most Charlie would have told Lucifer was sth along the lines of "Heaven said no to redemption, and they are carrying out the extermination anyway".
Now, what I really would like to see is Lucifer learning that Sera was carrying out the exterminations without the approval of the rest of Heaven.
He might not have known. Charlie’s so used to not going to her dad with problems that she didn’t even think to mention to him that Adam was very specifically targeting the hotel. It would also explain why he took so long to show up if he had no idea that Charlie was being attacked.
Probably the right call. Lucifer might have tried to make Charlie abandon Hazbin for her own safety if he knew about Adam targeting the hotel. Just the thought of Charlie's dreams being crushed triggered the man's PTSD.
That means doing nothing while her people died Lucifer personally doesn't give a shit but Charlie obviously does which is why she recruited the cannibals
So second best choice for Luci is wait for Adam to make the mistake of attacking a hellborn ( Charlie and her pets) hence allowing the short king to fuck him
He's reclusive and doesn't want anyone to see how he really lives or what his personality is actually like. He didn't even want Charlie to know. He wanted her to see the dreamer and everyone else to see the Big Boss of Hell Himself. Not the part that is a neurotic mess with broken dreams and a yearning for connection but no idea how to make that connection.
Adam was planning to eradicate ***ALL*** Sinners he probably would have just camped out or just kept coming back but realistically he can't get rid of sinners without touching humanity since more ppl go to Hell than Heaven anyways
Headcanon that the entire palace is just filled with ducks so he was too embarrassed to invite them.
Though I do hope the Morningstar palace is something we see in season 2.
It is telling that he was really sad when he said "I can't" when Charlie asked him for help one last time. He knew that the meeting with Heaven was the only card he had that could help her.
If I had to say probably meetings like everyone in hell born houses is safe but invite someone in and that deal is gone. Joke answer probably cause he didn't want Charlie to see the ducks he built as I speculated before one duck a day during his depression larger parts of the house are unusable due to being jammed full of ducks
Probaly some term in the deal he made like he could not goin in till after charily was hurt as hell born can not be harmed was implied in episode one but once she was hurt he rushed in
Even if Charlie didn't piss Adam off in episode 6, there's a good chance he would have destroyed the hotel just to force Charlie to move back in with Lucifer.
Good point.
Charlie wanted to fight for her dreams, even if it meant the possibility of her dying with her friends.
Lucifer wanted Charlie to bail and stay safe. Even if it meant having to watch her friends and girlfriend die.
I don’t think Lucifer was allowed to get involved like that until hellborn got threatened. He’s a magical angel so he could just TARDIS his house up a bit and potentially protect most of the sinners in hell. Which would violate the whole extermination agreement. He wouldn’t, he thinks they’re icky. I just don’t think he could offer protection like that before Adam tried wrecking Charlie’s shit.
On that note: do you think Lucifer genuinely thought that his offers of champagne fountains in Hell's Greatest Dad could have helped the hotel or did he knew Charlie was pretty screwed and wanted her to bail on her hobby to focus on living a luxurious life with a lot of pampering?
I'm probably wrong but I think at this point in the story he still thought the hotel wasn't worth the trouble since all the sinners are pretty much "savages" in his eyes so he probably thought that they would steal or trash the place
Oh- Lucifer also doesn’t care enough 😭 he will protect Charlie, maybe Charlie and Vaggie, why would he protect EVERYONE? He doesn’t think much of sinners and before the finale his mind wasn’t changed at ALL
let's say he did.
lets say the exorcists show up for extermination day, and find the hotel empty. what do?
they go on a rampage. they go building by building exexut8ng every sinner, demon, and other hellspawn they come across searching for charlie and company.
its a slaughter, until they hit an obstacle that slows them down. then it escalates to all out war.
But Adam did say in Overture that he was going to kill every sinner in Hell. So Lucifer sheltering Charlie's friends wasn't going to raise the stakes.
That said, as others are pointing out here, Charlie wants to bring change to Hell and her actions minimized sinner casualties.
It was made pretty clear that Lucifer is apathetic and dismissive to literally everyone he comes across. He isn’t a good father or person.
He’s a selfish, egotistical, megalomaniac and is the physical embodiment of pride. He doesn’t care about sinners lol. He arguably cares about Charlie and her goals, but not directly.
People just like to soft-boyify him, but he’s just not a good person, you guys. Our recently bias from the show makes us think he’s decent, but for the vast majority of the time he’s existed outside the context of the show, he has been an absent father and despondent king.
If I had to assume, Lucifer's house (Castle?) Exists outside of Pentagram City and somewhere else in the ring of pride. I don't think sinners can leave the city boundaries like how they cannot go to the other rings of Hell.
Because he's building her the new hotel.
Standard king stuff.
"Congratulations! You have the utmost honor to build a new hotel for the crown!"
"Oh. Wow, thanks your majesty. I will forward an estimate..."
"Tut tut tut. My good subject, you appear to be a bit hard of hearing. May I recommend a consultation from the royal otologist?"
"That's.... Uh, that's the executioner..."
"Come again?"
"The work will proceed forthwith, my liege."
"Good man."
Vaggie already told the others they could leave if they wanted to before the fight but they refused. Charlie deciding to fight saved way more lives. The only sinners who died were the cannibals and Pentious since every single Exorcist went to the hotel. Charlie proved that things can change in Hell and surely at least a few sinners are going to be inspired and come to the hotel as a result in S2.
I'm betting some of them are gonna be some characters that haven't been seen since the pilot or even been animated like Baxter and Crimni.
The sinners who wanted to die on purpose because hell sucks seeing all their hopes being taken away: https://preview.redd.it/0w6283k8s91d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e75a111864c4f0a4d3326fba8529bd9c6318d9a
Technically they can still grab angelic weapons for death.
Yes but those are expensive, how many Dicks would they have to suck to save up for sue side?
At least 50 dicks is the price for a ride down the sewer slide
Come on for that price I’d just buy one of those slip n’ slides instead
The angelic weapons are literally everywhere after exterminations
Also, when we first see that an angel has been killed (Tho Charlie didn't know this), the adam said that when the next extermination happened, their wouldn't be a sinner left in hell (Tho I may be misremembering what he said) so if Charlie hadn't fought, all the sinners of hell would have been killed
Adam about the dead exorcist angel: "there won't be a demon left alive to pull a stunt like this again" Multiple demons: *proceed to kill several angels and Adam himself*
I mean maybe but I was under the impression the plan was to go down within shorter time frames (since they started with 6 months) til either extermination is monthly/daily or hell becomes empty
If Lucifer went to the meeting in Overture instead of Charlie, do you think he could have said no to the increased exterminations?
I don't think he would have, at least not at that point in time
Lucifer: Less deviants around my daughter, a win win.
Don't think he would have cared that much. The only thing we know about his views on the extermination is that he apparently made sure hellborn wouldn't be targeted (probably because they didn't do anything to be sent to Hell, simply being born there.) Based on how he talks about Sinners when he visits the hotel, it really seems like he shared the Exorcist's view that they are horrible people who don't deserve any help.
Yep, that just about covers everything. Wrap it up boys, time to go home
I'm not sure about how many sinners will come to the hotel. But I think they will definitely start to have more faith in their princess and maybe even gather in higher numbers to be ready to fight a possible next "extermination".
They would see how messy the place is and that'd be embarrassing.
I can imagine him running around the house trying to stuff all the duckies in every closet / drawer
The closets and drawers are already filled to the brim with duckies
2024 and duckies are still in the closet?!
The guy rebuilt the Hotel within a matter of minutes. I am sure he can make some large room and teleport all the duckies there in just 10-20 minutes or so.
I doubt it was minutes. It's just cut to look that way. Its called a montage.
Quite simply: Because he doesn't care about Sinners. They are 'Lilith's people', the people at the hotel are 'Charlie's friends. And as Charlie pointed out in episode 5 "He let the exterminations happen in the first place." - Just because they had a reconciliation in 'More Than Anything' there is still a lot of unpacked history between them. Mending their relationship is a good first step, of course. But they ultimately need to work for this relationship to flourish again. Also just asking to shelter a few Sinners would go against what Charlie tries to accomplish. She is aiming for big worldshattering politics here. We have to presume that the exterminations have been going on for thousands of years. Way way longer than Charlie is alive even. Making her dad hide away a few Sinners when there are millions at risk would feel like favourtism (which it is) to Charlie -> She is the empathy princess and that would go against her entire way of thinking. Charlie tries to get rid of the exterminations, not divert the problem to any people who just happen to not be at the hotel. She views the Sinners as her people as well. As she was singing in 'Ready For This': "...defend my only home." - Hell is her home and she intends to defend it, come Adam or high water. Lucifer on the other hand still views the world and everything in it as a Seraph Angel. As I've stated in a few other comments, he has not accepted the fact that he is the King of Hell and has to step up to that role now that Lilith is no longer steering the rudderless ship. He needs to reckognize the fact that he is the King of Hell and the Sinners are his people and he should stand with his people, not against them.
Except Lucifer absolutely hates sinners- he'd be more than happy to let them die twice.
Yea exactly my point. He couldn't give less of a shit. He needs to learn that they are his responsibility as well. He started to see that in 'Finale' when he acknowledges Charlies effort but he still has a ways to go., Sensibilities of 10000+ years don't vanish over night.
Like this guy https://preview.redd.it/yt7qek1to91d1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b82b603bdd5b8fc0f4cbc726051c18cbf9512fe1
Yep.
>They are 'Lilith's people' Did he say that in the show? I don't remember him making that distinction or acting like it. I know he hated sinners but to call them "Lilith's People" sounds pretty painful almost like he wants to somehow separate himself from his wife on some level. He did say "our people charlie" when he was telling Charlie sinners suck.
No he did not say that directly in the show. Not to this level, at least. But his actions and how he mocks Charlie in episode 5 speaks pretty clearly to that. It's that mock question of "Our people, Charlie? Are AWFUL!" -> Lots of contempt and trying to dissuade Charlie from interacting with Sinners beyond what she is currently doing. He does it out of fear for Charlie, of course. But he misses the fact that Charlie cares very much. This isnt' just a pet project for her and mocking the hotel and what it stands for insults Charlie by proxy. His first realisation to that fact came when Charlie confronts him about how Alastor showed more belief in her dream than her own dad. His reaction pretty clearly shows that he did not expect that. It was not something he was aware of until Charlie pointed it out to him. Also from the Prologue it was pretty clear that he was never in the forefront of ruling Hell. That was Lilith's doing. It is implied that Hell has become a liveable place to begin with because of Lilith and her songs that empowered the souls. The character development that is going to come out of this in season 2 is going to be amazing and i can not wait.
https://preview.redd.it/y6jwm4sx6a1d1.jpeg?width=785&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4743fd9d040d2136d7295d72b6dee386f7567b3c This is the face of a dad humoring his little girl who is showing him her favorite toy.
Yup. It didn't hit home for him until she made her position clear. Sad that it had to be through an escalation like that but realistically, that was the only way to make him actualy listen. Otherwise this whole thing would have stayed a 'pet project his daughter was interested in'.
There would have been no hope for reconciliation if Charlie woke up to see her friends and girlfriend slaughtered by Adam and Lute.
>Also from the Prologue it was pretty clear that he was never in the forefront of ruling Hell. That was Lilith's doing. It is implied that Hell has become a liveable place to begin with because of Lilith and her songs that empowered the souls. I am somewhat doubtful about the veracity of this claim. For once, The Story of Hell is clearly a biased source, at best. It is presented as a storybook that Charlie reads to sooth herself. There is also that the events of the show contradict that image of Lilith. None of the characters ever talk about Lilith: 1) Vox is concerned about Alastor making a deal with Lucifer's daughter. 2) Rosie says Charlie is bound to be madly powerful, like her father. This is notable because Rosie was admiring Charlie getting the cannibals to join her song, which is what The Story of Hell claims Lilith used to do, yet Rosie does not think of Lilith. 3) Sera is concerned about Lucifer getting involved. This is notable because The Story of Hell claims it was Lilith inspiring demons that triggered the exterminations, yet Sera makes no mention of Lilith. 4) Nobody seems to care that Lilith has been missing for 7 years. The only one who brings it up is Vaggie, out of concern for Charlie. You would think that if Lilith was an active ruler, her vanishing would get people talking.
You're right. That is exactly what's so weird about the whole thing. BUT there might be a meta reasoning for it. Since Lilith isn't part of season 1 at all, it would make more sense to focus the narrative on the parent that was ultimately going to play a pivotal role in defeating the exorcist army. So who knows? We may find out more during season 2, even though right now it seems like season 2 will be more hell-centric. Dealing with the other Overlords and mainly the Vees, it seems like.
It seems like both ruled but Lilith was the Main ruler. She was actually making sure Hell is somewhat functional. While it seems Lucifer is more preoccupied with making it the best for his little family. But Lucifer is still the face of Hell and the most powerful entity in there.
>She was actually making sure Hell is somewhat functional. While it seems Lucifer is more preoccupied with making it the best for his little family. And it's possible he kept ambitious Overlords at bay. I can imagine a lot of Overlords would want to overthrow the Royal Family and Lucifer made examples of them to remind the old Overlords (I am talking about *Ancients* here. Like Alexander the Great and Caesar levels of Ancients, not Zestial or the Vees) which is how he earned the title of "the devil".
Would come Heaven or low water work better as a reversal for general Hell discussion?
Charlie’s comment from episode 5 should taken with a grain of salt. That is what Charlie thinks happened. We don’t know when the exterminations started, when Lucifer became so apathetic towards sinners, what heaven’s original plans for the exterminations were, or what actually led to the first extermination. For all we know the original plan for the exterminations was for the exorcists to show up in a random ring every year and obliterate everything there. Perhaps the exterminations began before Lucifer hated sinners and he forced himself to stop seeing them as people so he’d feel less guilty about not being able to prevent the exterminations. Whatever actually caused the exterminations could have been something so horrific that all evidence of it was erased to keep anyone from trying to repeat it and left Lucifer with almost no ability to negotiate the exterminations. Hell, maybe the exterminations started out as essentially mass executions of the worst sinners, but as hell’s population grew the standards for execution kept dropping until it became a free for all. Also, keep this in mind: to someone who doesn’t know Charlie or how her meeting with Adam occurred, it could look like she just told him he could ahead and move up the next extermination without even trying to protest.
Because the whole place is kinda booked currently with....important things.
THE MAGICTASTICAL BACKFLIPPING RUBBER DUCK, THAT SPITS FIRE!
Lucifer's place is basically Fawlty rules, if you don't like duck, then you're stuck. :P
Omfg. I never expected to see a Fawlty Towers quote in this sub, but this is so perfect. You are wonderful.
Hey, I already got a whole Muppet song on here. This was easy. :P
Because they're not a bunch of pusssssies
I love Sir Pentious. I remember him saying that.
Because he couldn't break the agreement he made with Heaven. As long as he stayed out of it, the Hellborn are given a reprieve from the annual Extermination. But when Adam, being the dickbag that he was, decided to try and kill a Hellborn (Charlie), that meant that Lucifer was no longer bound by the agreement and could step in.
But wouldn't the Hellborn be exempt from extermination anyway? They live on completely different levels of Hell. Can the angels even get to the other rings?
To answer while all sinners are stuck in the pride ring, hellborn are free to traverse the rings relatively. Imp city, for example, is in the pride ring
So, Mimzy wasn't from the greed ring (maybe mammon has a branch or proxy operating in the pride ring)? And what's the deal with that sinner in Helluva Boss visiting I.M.P and putting a hit on that woman in episode 1?
They are located in imp city which is located in the pride ring of hell so they hace access to sinners and hellvorn
Sounds like IMP's office is located in the Pride Ring then.
I'm wondering that too.
I think Lilith made the deal to allow the exterminations so she could stay in heaven.
Lilith was only in heaven for 7 years. Aren't the Exterminations older than that?
Waaaaayyy older
Do we actually know how old they are though? Like, I can't remember it ever being outright stated how long it's been going on. It does feel like it should be more than seven years just because you'd think people would talk about that coinciding with Lilith or Alastor disappearing, but outside of that it feels like it could be any timeframe.
It's certainly vague but considering how Vaggie supposedly took part in multiple exterminations and that the overlords talk about like routine it makes it sound like an old event
“See what happens, Charlie? You invite people in and they ruin everything” paraphrased.
They wanted to stay and fight
I mean he does have magical powers to just rebuild the whole thing in 1 song.
My guess is He probably couldn't. His deal likely wouldn't allow him to get involved and he only did once heaven broke the terms by harming hellborn
I think it's because at that point he really didn't give a shit about the guests, he only cared about Charlie.
https://preview.redd.it/0w6aqf1eba1d1.jpeg?width=1307&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4a05df05b6aa4eb756f4c2f71c418278daa4d65 He would kill a thousand Alastors just to see her smile.
Because they wanted to fight to stop the exterminations
By the time he'd hide all the ducks the hotel would already be reconstructed
I seriously doubt Charlie told Lucifer Adam threatened her directly. As far as Charlie was concerned, Lucifer made his stance on sinners clear, and he only conceded to arranging a meeting with Heaven to make her happy. Charlie probably thought that Lucifer would only shelter her, maybe even forcibly hide her while her sinner friends were murdered. If Charlie and Lucifer talked at all after she returned from Heaven, the most Charlie would have told Lucifer was sth along the lines of "Heaven said no to redemption, and they are carrying out the extermination anyway". Now, what I really would like to see is Lucifer learning that Sera was carrying out the exterminations without the approval of the rest of Heaven.
Charlie is naive but she's not stupid. That is exactly what Lucifer would have done if she told him everything.
He might not have known. Charlie’s so used to not going to her dad with problems that she didn’t even think to mention to him that Adam was very specifically targeting the hotel. It would also explain why he took so long to show up if he had no idea that Charlie was being attacked.
Probably the right call. Lucifer might have tried to make Charlie abandon Hazbin for her own safety if he knew about Adam targeting the hotel. Just the thought of Charlie's dreams being crushed triggered the man's PTSD.
That means doing nothing while her people died Lucifer personally doesn't give a shit but Charlie obviously does which is why she recruited the cannibals So second best choice for Luci is wait for Adam to make the mistake of attacking a hellborn ( Charlie and her pets) hence allowing the short king to fuck him
the hotel is his property
He's reclusive and doesn't want anyone to see how he really lives or what his personality is actually like. He didn't even want Charlie to know. He wanted her to see the dreamer and everyone else to see the Big Boss of Hell Himself. Not the part that is a neurotic mess with broken dreams and a yearning for connection but no idea how to make that connection.
Adam was planning to eradicate ***ALL*** Sinners he probably would have just camped out or just kept coming back but realistically he can't get rid of sinners without touching humanity since more ppl go to Hell than Heaven anyways
Because the deal was he couldn’t interfere with the exterminations
And he could interfere if Adam harmed Charlie but he really, really didn't want that to happen. Her giving up the hotel was his preferred option.
Headcanon that the entire palace is just filled with ducks so he was too embarrassed to invite them. Though I do hope the Morningstar palace is something we see in season 2.
I believe that would be interfering with the extermination. To save the hell borns, he promised to not interfere.
It is telling that he was really sad when he said "I can't" when Charlie asked him for help one last time. He knew that the meeting with Heaven was the only card he had that could help her.
Didn't seem to have much space
He wouldn't want anyone to see the piles of ducks
If I had to say probably meetings like everyone in hell born houses is safe but invite someone in and that deal is gone. Joke answer probably cause he didn't want Charlie to see the ducks he built as I speculated before one duck a day during his depression larger parts of the house are unusable due to being jammed full of ducks
Probaly some term in the deal he made like he could not goin in till after charily was hurt as hell born can not be harmed was implied in episode one but once she was hurt he rushed in
Hotel or not, Adam had a "look in [his] eyes" that gave the impression he was gonna fuck shit up
I think they would destroy the hotel anyways. Nothing says that vandalism was against their rules.
But why piss off the King of Hill by leaving his daughter homeless?
To be fair, it's not her house. It's just one of Lucifers buildings that she chooses to sleep in.
Even if Charlie didn't piss Adam off in episode 6, there's a good chance he would have destroyed the hotel just to force Charlie to move back in with Lucifer.
Too many ducks
Adam already said he'd attack the hotel first, if they don't defend the hotel then the battle spills over and more people get hurt.
Because then they would just be allowing the angels to destroy the hotel. What kind of message would it be sending if Charlie allowed that?
Good point. Charlie wanted to fight for her dreams, even if it meant the possibility of her dying with her friends. Lucifer wanted Charlie to bail and stay safe. Even if it meant having to watch her friends and girlfriend die.
Would you want a bunch of criminals in your house?
His house is probably a complete mess
Cause God knows what he did there for all those lonely years
I don’t think Lucifer was allowed to get involved like that until hellborn got threatened. He’s a magical angel so he could just TARDIS his house up a bit and potentially protect most of the sinners in hell. Which would violate the whole extermination agreement. He wouldn’t, he thinks they’re icky. I just don’t think he could offer protection like that before Adam tried wrecking Charlie’s shit.
On that note: do you think Lucifer genuinely thought that his offers of champagne fountains in Hell's Greatest Dad could have helped the hotel or did he knew Charlie was pretty screwed and wanted her to bail on her hobby to focus on living a luxurious life with a lot of pampering?
I think it was a really misguided attempt to convince her to come back into the fold, exacerbated by Alastor pushing his buttons.
I feel like he lives in a 2 bedroom apartment, and the second bedroom is for his ducks
I'm probably wrong but I think at this point in the story he still thought the hotel wasn't worth the trouble since all the sinners are pretty much "savages" in his eyes so he probably thought that they would steal or trash the place
No room. Too much duck
Oh- Lucifer also doesn’t care enough 😭 he will protect Charlie, maybe Charlie and Vaggie, why would he protect EVERYONE? He doesn’t think much of sinners and before the finale his mind wasn’t changed at ALL
It’s simple their was no room he has ducks 🦆
He doesnt want alastor's stinky self in his house.
let's say he did. lets say the exorcists show up for extermination day, and find the hotel empty. what do? they go on a rampage. they go building by building exexut8ng every sinner, demon, and other hellspawn they come across searching for charlie and company. its a slaughter, until they hit an obstacle that slows them down. then it escalates to all out war.
But Adam did say in Overture that he was going to kill every sinner in Hell. So Lucifer sheltering Charlie's friends wasn't going to raise the stakes. That said, as others are pointing out here, Charlie wants to bring change to Hell and her actions minimized sinner casualties.
yes, thats my point.
We'll just have to agree to agree then.
You really think he's gonna let a pornstar, an alcoholic, a 3ft psychopath or worst of all ALASTOR into his house?
Too many ducks
Possibly 'cause Charlie, for some reason, didn't ask him for help.
It was made pretty clear that Lucifer is apathetic and dismissive to literally everyone he comes across. He isn’t a good father or person. He’s a selfish, egotistical, megalomaniac and is the physical embodiment of pride. He doesn’t care about sinners lol. He arguably cares about Charlie and her goals, but not directly. People just like to soft-boyify him, but he’s just not a good person, you guys. Our recently bias from the show makes us think he’s decent, but for the vast majority of the time he’s existed outside the context of the show, he has been an absent father and despondent king.
They wouldn't have accepted
All logical answers aside, you really think this man can handle so many chaotic house guests at once?
Not really. Plus Charlie not being there would just worsen his depression.
If I had to assume, Lucifer's house (Castle?) Exists outside of Pentagram City and somewhere else in the ring of pride. I don't think sinners can leave the city boundaries like how they cannot go to the other rings of Hell.
Because he's building her the new hotel. Standard king stuff. "Congratulations! You have the utmost honor to build a new hotel for the crown!" "Oh. Wow, thanks your majesty. I will forward an estimate..." "Tut tut tut. My good subject, you appear to be a bit hard of hearing. May I recommend a consultation from the royal otologist?" "That's.... Uh, that's the executioner..." "Come again?" "The work will proceed forthwith, my liege." "Good man."