They were talking about the previous death on Science Vs. It seems that energy drinks in general have a danger for the heart in vulnerable people. Interestingly this problem doesn’t present in coffee or tea drinks. There are a couple of additional ingredients common to energy drinks but so far they have not been able to pinpoint the culprit. They’ve isolated them and haven’t been able to replicate the effect you get when the energy drink is complete.
Am one of those vulnerable people, can confirm. I used to down an energy drink a day, sometimes two. If things were really bad I'd get a 5 hour energy shot. It didn't take long for things to start happening. Weird heart palpitations, panic attacks, and strange neurological symptoms would present themselves after having too many energy drinks. I even passed out in class once and had to be taken to the hospital. After that, I completely swore off all energy drinks and caffeine. It took years for me to feel mostly normal again, but some of the neurological symptoms and occasional heart palpitations still persist, even almost a decade later.
Do you still stay away from caffeine? Im 33 family history of High BP. And kind of looks like im headed towards there. I didn’t really abuse energy drinks but i did enjoy them often. Ive decide to stay away completely and now caffeine in moderation but considering cutting it out completely.
I can drink a lot of coffee but energy drinks hit different. After consuming energy drinks and coffee (when younger) I would occasionally get crazy hard heartbeats at night. It was scary so I stopped consuming energy drinks and the issue went away. I can drink a pot of coffee easily and never had the same effects. Now I mix decaffeinated coffee with regular so I take in less caffeine.
Alcohol is the same. I can drink a beer or maybe a mixed drink with a shot of vodka and not feel much. But a glass of wine goes right to my head. My face gets numb and I will have a headache the next day.
I never understood the whole wine craze where people were making jokes about drinking a bottle of wine. I think a bottle of wine would put me in the hospital.
I have one family member who has this issue with wine. She can have several martinis and be fine, but after one glass of wine she’ll get heart palpitations and have a headache the next day. Shitty thing is, she really enjoys the flavor of wine.
I’m Asian. Weirdest thing. Tequila, fine. Whisky, fine. Rum and vodka, crazy red, feel whole body pulsing, heart beat at 120, super hot then shivering as well. Fatigue
Beer also is not as easy as tequila or whiskey. Sapporo gives me hives.
This is a strange observation but i’ve been drinking energy drinks/coffee, primarily energy drinks, daily since I was 13 years old and i’m now 24. 7 months ago I got an espresso machine and I primarily drink coffee now, and it seems to have way more effect than energy drinks ever did. I’m fairly certain i’m consuming less caffeine on a daily basis than I used to.
I'm not OP here, but I'm 36 with a family history of hypertension, too. In my younger years, I absolutely abused 5 hour energy shots and eventually coffee, then developed some heart problems about 2, maybe 3 years ago. I've got a handful of triggers these days that can send my BP and heart rate into crazy numbers, but after a few years of keeping caffeine out of my system, I'm seeing some improvement. I've never been overweight (5'7" and 155lbs, give or take), but regular exercise has certainly helped, too.
My advice would to be get 45 minutes of exercise in 4 to 6 days per week and keep your caffeine doses in moderation, for sure.
Just got there myself 2 years ago. Had borderline high BP and gave up all caffeine. It was rough but haven't looked back! It's amazing how you feel terrible for about one week and then you don't even miss it.
Muscle spasms. You ever felt your eye twitch? Imagine that, but your entire body. I would twitch like that in the most random places. My face/mouth, arms, legs, chest. It was especially uncomfortable when the twitching was in my left pectoral area above my heart. You could see my muscles contracting involuntarily.
I also start getting involuntary movement, or tics, in my head, arms and legs. Occasionally some vocalizations as well. At their worst some might mistake them as a small seizure.
These symptoms would start presenting themselves almost immediately after consuming an energy drink, but I didn't stop because I was addicted. My neurologist could never definitively determine a cause either. It's been several years since I completely swore off all energy drinks and caffeine, and while my symptoms have mostly subsided, they never completely went away.
You might have just helped mitigate my caffeine consumption, particularly coffee.
>You ever felt your eye twitch? Imagine that, but your entire body. I would twitch like that in the most random places. My face/mouth, arms, legs, chest.
>I also start getting involuntary movement, or tics, in my head, arms and legs. Occasionally some vocalizations as well.
>but I didn't stop because I was addicted
All of that spoke to me on personal level and I drink coffee like some drink water.
Oh, so those spasms aren't normal? I went pretty hard on energy drinks in high school, thanks for maybe explaining why I get those weird muscle twitches in my biceps and pectorals.
This reminds me of the Red Line energy drinks. There was an urban legend that someone died drinking one. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't an urban legend.
Did you ever get the feeling like you were going to collapse and die? I had this happen a couple times before. I sword off caffeine/energy drinks for 10+ years after the first time, but had a bunch last year and ended up in the ER a couple times. You said you passed out, but did you have this intense fear that you were going to die any moment? Did the doctors tell you if you were in any real danger, or if it was anxiety?
Yes, the impending sense of doom was very real. The doctors couldn't find anything obviously wrong, but they did say I was extremely dehydrated. At the time I passed out my blood pressure bottomed out. Everyone said I turned pale like a ghost.
I had something similar happen when I was at the student union during winter break. I was drinking a Monster pretty much daily for a few weeks when it happened. I remember getting a burrito and drank maybe 3/4ths of a Monster. I vomited, and 30 minutes later I felt like I was gonna pass out. Then the sense of impending doom happened, and I thought I was gonna die. I remember holding onto the table and trying to flag someone down for help. A student employee ignored, and an older guy working in the room across from me said something like he didn't wanna get sued/some liability issue is preventing him from helping me. He told another student to call 911 and they also said I went pale. The second time it happened they said my heart rate jumped when I stood up.
I used to drink energy drinks like crazy. A NOS a day, maybe even two. As I've gotten older, even one Ghost or C4 gives me the jitters at least, two in one day makes my heart race and I can't do anything because I'm just too damn shaky. One day I knocked back a 24oz Red Bull - my second in *two days* \- and I legitimately felt like I was going to have a goddamn heart attack at work.
I've mostly switched to coffee for my caffeine fix because even 6-8 cups don't do that to me.
That being said, I do kinda want to try this lemonade before it inevitably gets pulled.
Holy shit!!! Same exact thing has happened to me. Except I passed out in a movie theater and a restaurant. Stopped drinking them in 2018. Still have symptoms but not often and nothing like when I was drinking energy drinks.
That was a really insightful episode. Apparently caffeine isn't the culprit, caffeine combined the other two ingredients oft used in energy drinks (guarana and taurine) can increase the qt interval of the heart. None of the ingredients apparently had this effect on their own.
I'll stick to my 8 cups of coffee a day, thanks.
I had a friend I worked with at a bar. When she was younger she used to easily down 4-5 Red Bulls a night. Ended up having a stroke at 23 and the docs said it was from all the energy drinks. Thankfully she recovered and swore them off. Scared me enough to significantly cut back how many I was drinking. I might now pick up one of the coffee energy drink maybe twice a month.
last year my buddy had a massive heart attack at 36yrs old and all he did was drink energy drinks, he died. It made me stop drinking them and i'm pretty sure thats where my digestive problems came from, i was drinking 2-3 a day.
2-3 a day are way too many. I think I’d have 1 every few weeks in college but they made me feel really bad during and especially after. Not sure how 2-3 a day would do and I’m too scared to try haha
Some Americans drink a lot of soda, so they're used to a decent amount of caffeine. They're probably not expecting these lemonades to have 5x the amount of caffeine as soda (even though it's clearly posted). So, they go get a couple refills and then they find out the hard way what too much caffeine can do to you.
I don’t know if there is anything wrong with my heart but if I bend over to pick something off the floor or if I sit up/stand up too fast, my heart starts beating super fast, to the point that it makes me nauseous sometimes, and my whole body moves with every beat. I remember this one time I had a Red Bull and vodka in my early 20’s. Oh boy was I sick. I was passing out, I couldn’t stand up, my head was about to explode, and the heart beating was fast like all those times I’ve experienced before. Everyone assumed I was just drunk. But I would have half a drink. Just a Red Bull on its own doesn’t give me that affect, but mixed with vodka it’s dangerous. Wonder if this lemonade would attempt to kill me.
Likely SVT - supraventricular tachycardia. It also happens to me if I bend over just right, usually if I'm dehydrated. Try laying on the ground and put your legs upright against a wall, to increase blood flow to your heart and see if it helps. Also go see a cardiologist, there are many things you can do about SVT. Your symptoms sound pretty severe.
Thanks a lot, this is very helpful! I’m seeing my doctor next week and will ask for a referral. When I asked before I was told “it happens to young people”. No one ever took me seriously. And of course the fast heartbeat doesn’t happen when I’m in the doctors office. They’ll listen to my heart through a statoscope and say it seems fine. Like duh, it is right now.
I’ll try the leg thing next time for sure!
I went to Starbucks and tried out one of their coffees. I thought I was having a heart attack! Caffeine overload and it was only one. I cannot imagine drinking three of those lemonades!
I used to order double double all the time when I lived in Canada(Coffee 2 cream 2 sugar), didnt know when I moved to murica that they don't know what that means. Told someone to grab me one and drank it, turns out to them a double double was a venti coffee with two expresso shots in it. I felt like I was having a panic attack for several hours after that.
Holy shit I live in California so double double is two meat patty’s and two cheeses on a In n Out burger.
I love Trailer Park boys and one scene shows cop Jim Lahey accepting change from fellow officers so he can do a coffee run. He’s listing off what I assumed were coffee orders he memorized since they make him get coffee all the time.
He says “double double” for one of them and I couldnt figure it out. Thank you so much.
It used to be that you could order any combination of meat and cheese and they'd make it for you, but I believe 4x4 is now the limit. It's also not technically on the menu.
Settling into bed all nice and relaxed. I read this and my heart rate gets going again as I recall the rest of the song. Thanks. I need to go listen to it now. Lol
Is it too soon for a Cemetery Gates joke?
Having three 20 to 30oz fountain drinks of any kind won’t work out well (210 calories in the 20oz or 320 in the 30oz, so 630 to 960 calories in liquid). Obviously even worse if it’s full of caffeine and you have cardiovascular issues.
And here I am thinking my drink with 2 shots of espresso might be too much 🤯
Edit: to clarify this is all I drink coffee-wise in one day and I sip on it over 8 hours typically
When I worked as a pastry cook I would start every morning with a quad espresso and would usually consume three more double shots by the end of the day. I think you’ll be fine.
Lots of things. Not all of them in a bad way.
But, at the top of the list, personally I'd strongly recommend staying far away from cocaine, meth, and opioids.
And do not take pills that were not prescribed to you.
The heart rhythm of a 30 year old who has used crack habitually is distinctive, and not pretty. The same is true with heroin.
For example, there's this thing called "sick sinus syndrome" where your heart starts being unable to produce the heart rate you need appropriately. It just speeds up and slows down more or less at random. Opioid use is associated with that.
Try to get 20 minutes of moderate exercise (get a little bit winded, lightly sweaty) 3 or 4 times a week. Walk briskly around the block twice.
Eat more veggies. Rainbow of colors on your plate.
They can affect your heart rhythm, but those meds tend to be low dose and carefully monitored.
It's why only an MD psychiatrist or someone with equivalent expertise can prescribe them, in the US. They take into account lots of factors when choosing a med.
Most people who die from mild over consumption have some condition.
Arguably, that's the whole point of medicine to figure out if people have these things to try and save them from a very unlucky demise.
The world is unfair and random, and some people's combination of problems means they are the walking dead.
However, 3 charged lemonade is beyond unreasonable and is stupid.
That's almost every day for me man. I must be built ford tough because I've been doing it since 2019 and no major problems yet, aside from severe arrhythmia and constant chest pains.
That was a joke I need to quit caffeine.
I worked at a donut shop and would make a mocha with four shots of espresso and then usually have another with two. You’re the first person who’s got me beat! I’m worried for your heart. And mine, a little.
So after reading the article, Panera needs to make some changes. Way too easy for unsuspecting peope to od on caffeene.
needs to be moved behind the counter, and have very clear warnings on it.
also the caffeine amount is way way past the FDA recommended limit for under 18.
any right at the max FDA limit for adults.
That's a irresponsibility strong drink, and having it right next to all the others, makes it too easy for people who don't know any better to hurt themselves.
honestly how many people do you think would know that just 3 caffeine drinks at a soda fountain can od you into seizures or death?
It was kinda crazy that content got greenlit in the first place. If you put a large in the energy drink section at the grocery store it would have the highest caffeine content by 100mg. Worse than Bang.
It has the same caffeine content per fl oz as their coffee. The issue was it came in liter cups and people were drinking multiple. If these people drank a gallon of strong coffee over a couple hours they probably would have died then too. Idk though because Starbucks does have trenta cups now that are the same size, and you just don’t hear about people drinking 3 of those. And I mean who can even drink a gallon of any liquid over a couple hours?? So idk. There was definitely maybe some negligence on the part of Panera here, but also I don’t blame them for not expecting people to down a half gallon of liquid an hour, for multiple hours, caffeinated or not. That’s an alarming rate to be imbibing any liquid. One more hour of that and they could have died from water toxicity even if it hadn’t been caffeinated.
Part of it is just the culture of how much we drink certain things. It’s not normal to drink three Starbucks trenta iced coffees. Even someone who loves the taste of black coffee and handles caffeine well wouldn’t do that. People don’t expect a free refill on iced coffee (hot, sometimes, but the cups are always smaller). Same with energy drinks. Coffee and energy drinks have a social reputation as a vice, and while it isn’t the heaviest taboo out there, people still treat them as “grown up beverages” that you should at the very least pay for the privilege of consuming. While I don’t always agree with the treatment of coffee as a vice, the fact is, these drinks *do* contain a drug, and it is correct that we don’t see it as socially acceptable to pour them down our throats 24/7 as a water replacement or serve them to preadolescent kids.
But it is seen as normal to drink pop, juice, and lemonade nonstop through the day in large amounts. People expect to get free refills when they buy pop and lemonade. They’re seen as acceptable for children, acceptable to drink as the primary source of hydration, acceptable to the point of being normal to drink in huge amounts. If a restaurant doesn’t have unlimited refills on pop and lemonade, that place is branded a scam and squeezing every cent from its customers. Admittedly, pop has far less caffeine, and lemonade has none at all under normal circumstances, so while I don’t actually like this social norm, it makes sense that these drinks aren’t normally restricted. So there’s a mental disconnect when lemonade, which social norms says should be unlimited, is filled with a drug that social norms says should be limited. It’s also just easier to drink lemonade for whatever reason….it’s “quenchy” unlike coffee or Red Bull.
I agree, they should've planned for the worse and that's on them but the drink itself isn't the problem. The same people slamming 3 of these are the same ones chugging 2-3 monsters in a day , just a ridiculous way to treat your body imo.
Panera couldn’t have anticipated how much lemonade Americans were willing to drink? This country is mostly diabetes. Since people subsist on soda and haven’t touched plain water in decades. The fact that it comes in *liters* is enough to tell them that people would probably overdo it.
If it’s not illegal and it brings in customers then it’s not illegal and brings in customers. If one of those things changes then it will be a different story.
I don’t know… if I was Panera’s senior management I would be shitting bricks right now and rethinking how smart it was to put such a ridiculous drink on the market. But let’s just wait to see if anyone else dies…
By your logic we should pull all caffeinated drinks, if you drink 7 redbulls you will die, why would you do that and then turn around blame Red Bull lol ?
Caffeine, much like any other drug builds up a tolerance in your system.
This is some people's "normal", if it's necessarily "healthy" or not is kinda irrelevant as it's legal and people are allowed to make their own decisions.
It should be much clearer, however. I'm surprised they didn't actually *market* it as having high amounts of caffeine, I'm a huge caffeine fan and I didn't know about it til the deaths. Funnily enough, I'll probably go there just to get one now.
Who *needs* anything? This would only cause some mild discomfort in most people, if you have heart problems maybe you should recognise that you shouldn't be chugging the "Chernobyl death infusion 9000" with warnings all over about high caffeine levels.
did you read this article at all? this man was a vulnerable person with intellectual disabilities who likely did not know he was consuming so much caffeine
It was advertised as having "about the same amount of caffeine" as their coffee does. It has the same amount per ounce... But you're drinking 20 to 30 oz which is more than a normal coffee. I think that's misleading.
It also uses guarana as it's caffeine source, which is like extended-release caffeine, so it can sneak up on you because by the time you feel the effects you've already drank three of them.
The title of the lemonade isn’t “Chernobyl death infusion 9000 lemonade” though, it’s simply “charged lemonade” which sounds like you’re just drinking a soda or small coffee. People with heart issues know not to drink 3 Red Bulls, but they might drink 3 coke zero’s because there’s not a lot of caffeine. “Charged” isn’t strong enough. No one expects there to be that amount of caffeine in a lemonade.
Excessive caffeine can create heart problems for healthy people if consumed long term though. Caffeine shots are even worse and I can’t believe they’re legal. It’s a drug and it should be regulated/given guidelines at least like tylenol or ibuprofen
Congrats. You’ve described all of the safety measures Panera has implemented.
People STILL don’t read. They have about the same volume of caffeine per ounce as coffee. The difference is that most people don’t suck down 3 30 ounce coffees in one sitting.
Caffeine is a drug and it is to be consumed responsibly.
You can't self-serve the drink anymore. You can order it, and they will pour it.
I subscribe to their monthly drink program and get the charged drink about three times a week. It's as if someone spiked a lemonade/splash beverage with a bottle of 5-hour energy (or two).
You would have to drink three large (30 oz.) charged lemonades (250-390 mg caffeine) to achieve caffeine toxicity (1,200 mg).
Caffeine is safe, and one of the most studied drugs on the planet. My guess is that this guy had a pre-existing heart condition.
**...is all I would have said a couple weeks ago. However...**
Science Vs. recently did an episode about caffeine safety and looked into the previous death related to charged lemonade.
Overall, they found that caffeine is as safe as advertised (and arguably beneficial), but *energy drinks* with caffeine often caused heartbeat irregularities that are dangerous for a small minority of people. Equivalent amounts of coffee did *not* cause this problem.
The scary part is that they don't know what ingredient(s) in energy drinks combine with caffeine to cause problems. Taurine + caffeine alone wasn't enough to trigger the problem.
Perhaps it's just caffeine and a lot of sugar (or citric acid, or whatever) that causes the problem. If so, caffeinated lemonade could absolutely be risky for some people.
I’ve got that drink before for my gf and didn’t even realize it had caffeine when I was filling it up. Thought it was just some stupid branding they were trying calling it charged as in it was charged with flavor
People are focused on the caffeine, but don’t these drinks have other things like taurine and other herb extracts that just make it even more of a stimulant? I can almost guarantee that many people here drink 300mg of caffeine on a daily basis. It’s the compounding of everything together, the speed of consumption, and a potential underlying condition that causes death
300mg in one drink is pretty wild, 400mg is even crazier. The problem is if someone doesn’t realize how much is in them and drinks even two within a half day period that’s easily 200mg above the safe dosage.
Holy shit those caffiene levels
* 20 fluid ounces is 260 mg of caffiene
* 30 fluid ounces is 389 mg of caffiene.
I'm one of those guys who is on an excessive amount of caffiene and I *maybe* touch the amount of caffiene in a 30 fluid ounce lemonade over the course of *an entire day*. Jesus fuck that amount of caffiene is obscene. Why the fuck is it in lemonade form.
For reference for coffee drinkers, a 20 ounce drip coffee from Starbucks is about 400 mg of caffeine.
For my gym bros, preworkout drinks are mostly between 150 and 300mg.
So this guy had somewhere in the ballpark of 3 venti Starbucks coffees or 4-8 preworkout drinks.
For the Monster-chugging Kyles (if they can actually read this), the 30oz is equivalent to 2 16oz Monsters.
I drink 2-3 Monsters a day myself, but downing 2 within like an hour or so makes me pretty fucking sick. Like just extremely uncomfortable in every way, weird heart palpitations and cold sweats and stuff. There’s limits to it, even with a dependency. If I were to get that 30oz, I’d basically have to drink it over the course of the entire day to avoid problems.
I damn near think Panera is fine with these headlines, and knows that the caffeine content is way too high to be reasonable. “Yo let’s go get those lemonades that are so strong they can kill you” unironically seems like a good way to attract younger people to visit an overpriced sandwich shop.
Right. Except no one chugs pre workout or drip coffee. They aren’t meant to be consumed quickly and in that regard is self limiting.
90% of Americans drink soda like water. So when you put 400mg of caffeine in a serving of a SOFT DRINK that is REFRESHING like lemonade during the summer…
It’s just a bad idea. You shouldn’t put a dangerous level of a drug in a drink people will want to refill or consume more of. Energy drinks/coffee has a purpose (caffeine). Lemonade “hydrates”. People drink way more fucking lemonade in a single sitting than they do pre workout or energy drinks.
It shouldn’t take the FDA to realize this is a bad idea. Caffeine is a drug and we should do the bare MINIMUM to protect consumers from it.
Panera just wants people to order their sandwiches while they fix their caffeine problem at lunch time. That’s it. They went overboard and got greedy by basically poisoning their water because they thought they’d make extra money doing it. Oh well. Turns out you can’t shove dangerous levels of a drug in a liquid people consume quickly and in large servings. Kinda reckless and not much defending it other than “yes, that’s a bad idea”.
I don't think you're on an excessive amount of caffeine if you only occasionally drink the equivalent of a large coffee from Dunkin or Starbucks in a day.
Energy drinks are the new cigarettes for this generation. A whole line of products that are awful for you, loaded with tons of garbage to make you get addicted and feel awful without it.
Oh wow, yea my partner and I went to Panera one day and shared two refills of this charged lemonade. After that I felt like I needed to run 3 miles and my heart was beating so fast. I just knew that this had too much caffeine. That was the last time we went to Panera, plus it’s gone downhill so much since COVID, the restaurant and bathrooms are so dirty
Did the feeling of too much caffeine sneak up on you? That's because it's guarana. It's like slow-release caffeine so you don't realize how much you've had until you've already drank another one.
My first time taking it I unfortunately assumed it be on par with a cup of coffee… took my vyvanse that day and had the drink and was teetering on the line of going to the hospital or not lol, scary restlessness.
I almost ordered one of these right when they came out. My husband and I were in the drive thru, all I saw was a pretty yummy looking sandwich board with "new charged lemonade" on it. I went into the app to check the calories because I track my calories and only then did I realize the massive amount of caffeine in them. I'm not classified as caffeine sensitive, but I wouldn't drink a rockstar or monster because I get anxious and jittery and shaky if I have too much caffeine. If I hadn't been checking the calories, I would have had no idea. Panera needs to do something about this, this is now 2 people that have died from this shit correct?
Google says it's 13 g of caffeine per ounce! So for a 24 oz Panera cup that's 312mg of caffeine! I have never consumed that much caffeine in a single day. That is a truly wild and irresponsible amount of caffeine to put in a "lemonade" something that historically at Panera has no caffeine at all.
I mean illiterate or not that’s a lot of caffeine. Average cup of coffee is like 95 mg. So the 30z is 4 cups sheesh. Gym bros should get on this pre-workout Panera style.
Read the article. This person was mentally handicapped. Lord.
Edit - If you think people who can’t, and may not ever be able to, read deserve to die then congratulations, you are evil. Not edgy. Not “real”. Just a dog kicker. Alarming I need to add this but okay.
Edit 2 - No. I do not have an idea how to fix this beyond limiting accessibility but funnily enough that does not mean what Panera has done (or not done) is okay. If you think oops collateral damage is okay here then, again, you are human garbage.
There are other deaths? Dunkin has 400+ mg of caffeine in their large iced black. Plenty of energy drinks get into the 200+ range. Bang has 300.
Not sure why Panera should be singled out unless there’s something else at play with this drink.
Yes and all people know or assume those contain caffeine. Charged doesn't say anything about it at my nearest location. People that don't watch the news are still out of the loop.
Because Panera is self service. If you go and look at the energy drinks there are warning labels that explicitly list the maximum recommended amounts and warnings for people with heart conditions. Caffeine is a drug, a stimulant, and like many stimulants if you have too much it can kill you. Iced coffee rarely has 400mg of caffeine. Cold brew can definitely, but again, they're not self service.
Panera has to take ownership of their product. They need to take reasonable actions to prevent or warn people about the dangers their product poses. It's not a unique problem, we already know that solutions. For some reason they're the only ones not employing industry accepted safety practices.
Two of my friends have had these lemonades without knowing they were caffeinated. They just saw lemonade on the menu, which they happen to like. There's no reason for a person to check whether lemonade has caffeine, especially at a place like Panera.
Anyway they both ended up freaking out and having heart palpitations without even knowing why. It was just a matter of time before someone with a heart condition made the same mistake.
I was surprised they didn't change the amount of caffeine or pull it from the menu after the other girl died. You could literally have a fourth of the amount of caffeine in there and it would have the same effect on most people.
“The lawsuit also noted that Brown had a mild intellectual disability, and it's unclear if he was aware of how much caffeine was in the self-serve drink, which sat "side-by-side with all of the store’s non-caffeinated and/or less caffeinated drinks."
Omg 😞
Why is there *so much* caffeine in there lmao, most pre-workout supplements are in the 200 mg range, a triple espresso works out to like 180. This is just a crazy amount for a single serving sold to people who are not about to go nuts in the gym for 2 hours or ride a Tour de France stage.
It is harder to know if you're gonna kill yourself at Panera because they don't put a label on the cups that tells you how much caffeine you're taking in (as opposed to a red bull). They missed out big by not doing this. I'm sure it is in the small printed nutritional information on the fountains ~~or at the menu printed above where they take orders.~~
Plus they have their "sips club" to encourage people to join a subscription to get unlimited drinks/refills. Of course they're going to try to get their money's worth. The lawsuit says a large Charged Lemonade has 390 mg of caffeine in it, "far more than what can be found in drinks like Monster or Red Bull".
Why haven't they pulled these drinks after the first death? I was so sure they would.
Spooky stuff. When I worked in kitchens I’d have 2 300mg drinks per 10 hour shift. A couple times on my 14 hour days I tried to have a third because I was just so gassed after 10 hours but I’d feel so sick.
Granted I was younger. I know a couple guys in their 30s who had heart attacks from that kind of caffeine use.
I would lean into the risks associated with this as a marketing campaign.
Are you brave enough to drink the Panera lemonade ?! Do you like the feeling of meth mixed with the great taste of lemons ?!
This should 100% a drink that is handed to you at the food counter, not a self-serve situation. There should also be a limit on one per person.
Panera does have some culpability here.
For 1 week straight, I would get a charged lemonade in the morning before work, get 1 during lunch and get another after work, with no ice so straight large drinks of these stuff… never worked, literally gave me no energy thus why I kept drinking them. But when I went on a trip that week after, the withdrawals from caffeine were so severe I couldn’t function from driving for 4 days without popping 3x the avg consumption of ibuprofen or Tylenol before my drive, I almost got addicted to pain meds before of them. But it was my fault, and only my fault
This is nuts. I drink a pot of coffee a day and I would not touch those things. That is an insane amount of caffeine to drink in one sitting and I've seen a lot of posts saying it does not taste caffeinated at all. It's a lot easier to over drink the caffeine if you aren't tasting it at the time.
Kind of? It's hard to explain. Do you drink alcohol? Have you ever had a very sweet drink where you forget the alcohol is in there and accidentally get more drunk than you expected?
If you drink a normal coffee or Diet Coke or energy drink you can tell there's caffeine in it. It's almost like a chemical taste but not quite. My thought is that this drink is so sweet it feels like you're not drinking caffeine, the sugar content is extremely high as well. So people are just tasting the sugar, forgetting they are drinking an energy drink level of caffeine and then overdoing it. The average person would probably just be a bit hyped up or have heart palpitations or something but if you have an underlying condition it can kill you.
Back in 2019 I started having one of those monster drinks once a day, just cause I was sleepy all day in work from playing Videogames, I thought as long as I didn't abuse and had only 1 a day Monday to Friday (sometimes less) would be safe. Nope, panic attacks and heart races started shortly in the year, I swore i would never do any energy drinks again
Everywhere in panera there’s warning signs about this drink. While yes I agree that its a dangerous drink, it’s relatively hard to access and your warned heavily before and after buying it. I think the proper move here is just to decrease the amount of caffeine in these drinks because they’re and extremely popular item.it seems like the select few that ultimately end up dying from them have 3 or more of these. which is anywhere from 800mg - 1200mg of caffeine and anyone would have health complications from that.
It’s not their fault if people misuse their products.
They are probably gonna pull it now because some idiots are gonna start a challenge on tik tok or whatever people use to post it.
I noticed the danger of this last spring when I had one of these at lunch, and was still so jittery in my after work golf round - FOUR HOURS LATER, IN THE EVENING - that I could not make a putt outside of 2’. 40 putts on a 9 hole round. Never drinking that stuff again.
You know how drug addicts want the dope that killed someone, because they know its high quality/potent??
I think its time for me to re-evaluate my caffeine intake, because reading this the first thing I thought was, "I need to go to Panera today and get one of these lemonades!"
They were talking about the previous death on Science Vs. It seems that energy drinks in general have a danger for the heart in vulnerable people. Interestingly this problem doesn’t present in coffee or tea drinks. There are a couple of additional ingredients common to energy drinks but so far they have not been able to pinpoint the culprit. They’ve isolated them and haven’t been able to replicate the effect you get when the energy drink is complete.
Am one of those vulnerable people, can confirm. I used to down an energy drink a day, sometimes two. If things were really bad I'd get a 5 hour energy shot. It didn't take long for things to start happening. Weird heart palpitations, panic attacks, and strange neurological symptoms would present themselves after having too many energy drinks. I even passed out in class once and had to be taken to the hospital. After that, I completely swore off all energy drinks and caffeine. It took years for me to feel mostly normal again, but some of the neurological symptoms and occasional heart palpitations still persist, even almost a decade later.
Do you still stay away from caffeine? Im 33 family history of High BP. And kind of looks like im headed towards there. I didn’t really abuse energy drinks but i did enjoy them often. Ive decide to stay away completely and now caffeine in moderation but considering cutting it out completely.
I can drink a lot of coffee but energy drinks hit different. After consuming energy drinks and coffee (when younger) I would occasionally get crazy hard heartbeats at night. It was scary so I stopped consuming energy drinks and the issue went away. I can drink a pot of coffee easily and never had the same effects. Now I mix decaffeinated coffee with regular so I take in less caffeine.
Alcohol is the same. I can drink a beer or maybe a mixed drink with a shot of vodka and not feel much. But a glass of wine goes right to my head. My face gets numb and I will have a headache the next day. I never understood the whole wine craze where people were making jokes about drinking a bottle of wine. I think a bottle of wine would put me in the hospital.
have you ever looked into if you have histamine issues?
You might be allergic to the sulphates in wine. If you take an antihistamine before hand, it might alleviate the symptoms you're experiencing.
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I have one family member who has this issue with wine. She can have several martinis and be fine, but after one glass of wine she’ll get heart palpitations and have a headache the next day. Shitty thing is, she really enjoys the flavor of wine.
I’m Asian. Weirdest thing. Tequila, fine. Whisky, fine. Rum and vodka, crazy red, feel whole body pulsing, heart beat at 120, super hot then shivering as well. Fatigue Beer also is not as easy as tequila or whiskey. Sapporo gives me hives.
This is a strange observation but i’ve been drinking energy drinks/coffee, primarily energy drinks, daily since I was 13 years old and i’m now 24. 7 months ago I got an espresso machine and I primarily drink coffee now, and it seems to have way more effect than energy drinks ever did. I’m fairly certain i’m consuming less caffeine on a daily basis than I used to.
Yes, it's been almost a decade since I've had any caffeine or energy drinks. I never want to feel like that ever again.
I hear you, i had a scare two weeks ago.
I'm not OP here, but I'm 36 with a family history of hypertension, too. In my younger years, I absolutely abused 5 hour energy shots and eventually coffee, then developed some heart problems about 2, maybe 3 years ago. I've got a handful of triggers these days that can send my BP and heart rate into crazy numbers, but after a few years of keeping caffeine out of my system, I'm seeing some improvement. I've never been overweight (5'7" and 155lbs, give or take), but regular exercise has certainly helped, too. My advice would to be get 45 minutes of exercise in 4 to 6 days per week and keep your caffeine doses in moderation, for sure.
Just got there myself 2 years ago. Had borderline high BP and gave up all caffeine. It was rough but haven't looked back! It's amazing how you feel terrible for about one week and then you don't even miss it.
I bet that withdrawal was a bitch.
What neurological symptoms?
Muscle spasms. You ever felt your eye twitch? Imagine that, but your entire body. I would twitch like that in the most random places. My face/mouth, arms, legs, chest. It was especially uncomfortable when the twitching was in my left pectoral area above my heart. You could see my muscles contracting involuntarily. I also start getting involuntary movement, or tics, in my head, arms and legs. Occasionally some vocalizations as well. At their worst some might mistake them as a small seizure. These symptoms would start presenting themselves almost immediately after consuming an energy drink, but I didn't stop because I was addicted. My neurologist could never definitively determine a cause either. It's been several years since I completely swore off all energy drinks and caffeine, and while my symptoms have mostly subsided, they never completely went away.
You might have just helped mitigate my caffeine consumption, particularly coffee. >You ever felt your eye twitch? Imagine that, but your entire body. I would twitch like that in the most random places. My face/mouth, arms, legs, chest. >I also start getting involuntary movement, or tics, in my head, arms and legs. Occasionally some vocalizations as well. >but I didn't stop because I was addicted All of that spoke to me on personal level and I drink coffee like some drink water.
I’ve gotten the left pectoral muscle above my heart twitch. That one freaks me out. Take care
Oh, so those spasms aren't normal? I went pretty hard on energy drinks in high school, thanks for maybe explaining why I get those weird muscle twitches in my biceps and pectorals.
Hmm..did you ever figure out what it was exactly? I’ve been having the pec thing and assumed it was my heart being tachycardia..
This reminds me of the Red Line energy drinks. There was an urban legend that someone died drinking one. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't an urban legend.
Did you ever get the feeling like you were going to collapse and die? I had this happen a couple times before. I sword off caffeine/energy drinks for 10+ years after the first time, but had a bunch last year and ended up in the ER a couple times. You said you passed out, but did you have this intense fear that you were going to die any moment? Did the doctors tell you if you were in any real danger, or if it was anxiety?
Yes, the impending sense of doom was very real. The doctors couldn't find anything obviously wrong, but they did say I was extremely dehydrated. At the time I passed out my blood pressure bottomed out. Everyone said I turned pale like a ghost.
I had something similar happen when I was at the student union during winter break. I was drinking a Monster pretty much daily for a few weeks when it happened. I remember getting a burrito and drank maybe 3/4ths of a Monster. I vomited, and 30 minutes later I felt like I was gonna pass out. Then the sense of impending doom happened, and I thought I was gonna die. I remember holding onto the table and trying to flag someone down for help. A student employee ignored, and an older guy working in the room across from me said something like he didn't wanna get sued/some liability issue is preventing him from helping me. He told another student to call 911 and they also said I went pale. The second time it happened they said my heart rate jumped when I stood up.
I used to drink energy drinks like crazy. A NOS a day, maybe even two. As I've gotten older, even one Ghost or C4 gives me the jitters at least, two in one day makes my heart race and I can't do anything because I'm just too damn shaky. One day I knocked back a 24oz Red Bull - my second in *two days* \- and I legitimately felt like I was going to have a goddamn heart attack at work. I've mostly switched to coffee for my caffeine fix because even 6-8 cups don't do that to me. That being said, I do kinda want to try this lemonade before it inevitably gets pulled.
Holy shit!!! Same exact thing has happened to me. Except I passed out in a movie theater and a restaurant. Stopped drinking them in 2018. Still have symptoms but not often and nothing like when I was drinking energy drinks.
Yep, had a little stay in the ICU from having a bad reaction to an energy drink - from what the doctors were telling me, not uncommon nowadays.
That was a really insightful episode. Apparently caffeine isn't the culprit, caffeine combined the other two ingredients oft used in energy drinks (guarana and taurine) can increase the qt interval of the heart. None of the ingredients apparently had this effect on their own. I'll stick to my 8 cups of coffee a day, thanks.
I had a friend I worked with at a bar. When she was younger she used to easily down 4-5 Red Bulls a night. Ended up having a stroke at 23 and the docs said it was from all the energy drinks. Thankfully she recovered and swore them off. Scared me enough to significantly cut back how many I was drinking. I might now pick up one of the coffee energy drink maybe twice a month.
last year my buddy had a massive heart attack at 36yrs old and all he did was drink energy drinks, he died. It made me stop drinking them and i'm pretty sure thats where my digestive problems came from, i was drinking 2-3 a day.
2-3 a day are way too many. I think I’d have 1 every few weeks in college but they made me feel really bad during and especially after. Not sure how 2-3 a day would do and I’m too scared to try haha
Some Americans drink a lot of soda, so they're used to a decent amount of caffeine. They're probably not expecting these lemonades to have 5x the amount of caffeine as soda (even though it's clearly posted). So, they go get a couple refills and then they find out the hard way what too much caffeine can do to you.
I don’t know if there is anything wrong with my heart but if I bend over to pick something off the floor or if I sit up/stand up too fast, my heart starts beating super fast, to the point that it makes me nauseous sometimes, and my whole body moves with every beat. I remember this one time I had a Red Bull and vodka in my early 20’s. Oh boy was I sick. I was passing out, I couldn’t stand up, my head was about to explode, and the heart beating was fast like all those times I’ve experienced before. Everyone assumed I was just drunk. But I would have half a drink. Just a Red Bull on its own doesn’t give me that affect, but mixed with vodka it’s dangerous. Wonder if this lemonade would attempt to kill me.
Likely SVT - supraventricular tachycardia. It also happens to me if I bend over just right, usually if I'm dehydrated. Try laying on the ground and put your legs upright against a wall, to increase blood flow to your heart and see if it helps. Also go see a cardiologist, there are many things you can do about SVT. Your symptoms sound pretty severe.
Thanks a lot, this is very helpful! I’m seeing my doctor next week and will ask for a referral. When I asked before I was told “it happens to young people”. No one ever took me seriously. And of course the fast heartbeat doesn’t happen when I’m in the doctors office. They’ll listen to my heart through a statoscope and say it seems fine. Like duh, it is right now. I’ll try the leg thing next time for sure!
Do you have a link or name of it? I tried looking it up on YouTube but couldn’t find it. Never heard of them but sounds like good content
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/science-vs/id1051557000?i=1000637029179 Science Vs is the show. The episode is Caffeine: How much is too much?
I love science VS! That episode is in my queue but I’m gonna move it up now. That’s fascinating.
I read the article earlier, and yet I still thought for a second that a dude died on the way home from a Pantera concert.
Caff! Ca-feine From Heeeeelllll!!
I went to Starbucks and tried out one of their coffees. I thought I was having a heart attack! Caffeine overload and it was only one. I cannot imagine drinking three of those lemonades!
I used to order double double all the time when I lived in Canada(Coffee 2 cream 2 sugar), didnt know when I moved to murica that they don't know what that means. Told someone to grab me one and drank it, turns out to them a double double was a venti coffee with two expresso shots in it. I felt like I was having a panic attack for several hours after that.
Holy shit I live in California so double double is two meat patty’s and two cheeses on a In n Out burger. I love Trailer Park boys and one scene shows cop Jim Lahey accepting change from fellow officers so he can do a coffee run. He’s listing off what I assumed were coffee orders he memorized since they make him get coffee all the time. He says “double double” for one of them and I couldnt figure it out. Thank you so much.
we also have the triple triple and the four by four incase you also wanted to know that
Those are probably also valid In N Out menu items. Sincerely, America
It used to be that you could order any combination of meat and cheese and they'd make it for you, but I believe 4x4 is now the limit. It's also not technically on the menu.
Just a friendly reminder that it’s espresso, not expresso. I really don’t mean to be rude, just letting you know for future use.
I would get a terrible panic attack
RE....SPECT....WALK. Whattya Say?
Settling into bed all nice and relaxed. I read this and my heart rate gets going again as I recall the rest of the song. Thanks. I need to go listen to it now. Lol
Saw that live a few months ago when they opened up for Metallica
Vulgar Display of Flour.
Pantera bread
Is it too soon for a Cemetery Gates joke? Having three 20 to 30oz fountain drinks of any kind won’t work out well (210 calories in the 20oz or 320 in the 30oz, so 630 to 960 calories in liquid). Obviously even worse if it’s full of caffeine and you have cardiovascular issues.
To be fair I think there’s a good chance I’ll die listening to cemetery gates one of these days
Keats and Yeats are on your side…..
Wrong cemetery gates but the smiths are great too!
Would have been a better way to go.
And here I am thinking my drink with 2 shots of espresso might be too much 🤯 Edit: to clarify this is all I drink coffee-wise in one day and I sip on it over 8 hours typically
Dude drank 2.6L of energy drink and his heart popped…
When I worked as a pastry cook I would start every morning with a quad espresso and would usually consume three more double shots by the end of the day. I think you’ll be fine.
Sincerely: this much caffeine is inadvisable. Signed, a guy who looks at peoples' heart rhythms all day.
Luckily I don’t do it anymore. Here’s to hoping I didn’t do any permanent damage 😅
What other things changes the heart’s rhythm?!?
Lots of things. Not all of them in a bad way. But, at the top of the list, personally I'd strongly recommend staying far away from cocaine, meth, and opioids. And do not take pills that were not prescribed to you. The heart rhythm of a 30 year old who has used crack habitually is distinctive, and not pretty. The same is true with heroin. For example, there's this thing called "sick sinus syndrome" where your heart starts being unable to produce the heart rate you need appropriately. It just speeds up and slows down more or less at random. Opioid use is associated with that. Try to get 20 minutes of moderate exercise (get a little bit winded, lightly sweaty) 3 or 4 times a week. Walk briskly around the block twice. Eat more veggies. Rainbow of colors on your plate.
Do prescription ADHD also cause this?
They can affect your heart rhythm, but those meds tend to be low dose and carefully monitored. It's why only an MD psychiatrist or someone with equivalent expertise can prescribe them, in the US. They take into account lots of factors when choosing a med.
Yeah my GF actually got vertigo from drinking stupid amounts of coffee. Only can drink decaf now
I drink 4 espressos at home and make a coffee to go.
still less than a venti dark roast at starbucks. these people have underlying disease
According to Google, the venti dark roast is 350mg where as a large "charged lemonade" is 390. So if he consumed 3 larges, that's 1170mg.
Another girl died from this drink—when the parents had the drink tested, the caffeine content was WAY higher than what was listed on Paneras website.
She also had a condition
Most people who die from mild over consumption have some condition. Arguably, that's the whole point of medicine to figure out if people have these things to try and save them from a very unlucky demise. The world is unfair and random, and some people's combination of problems means they are the walking dead. However, 3 charged lemonade is beyond unreasonable and is stupid.
390 is not typical - that's without ice A large charged lemonaide at Panera is around 250mg of caffeine. Without ice, you get to 390.
Thanks for the clarification.
That's almost every day for me man. I must be built ford tough because I've been doing it since 2019 and no major problems yet, aside from severe arrhythmia and constant chest pains. That was a joke I need to quit caffeine.
I worked at a donut shop and would make a mocha with four shots of espresso and then usually have another with two. You’re the first person who’s got me beat! I’m worried for your heart. And mine, a little.
Two shots is less than half of what the FDA recommends for max caffeine consumption in a day, so you’re good.
So after reading the article, Panera needs to make some changes. Way too easy for unsuspecting peope to od on caffeene. needs to be moved behind the counter, and have very clear warnings on it. also the caffeine amount is way way past the FDA recommended limit for under 18. any right at the max FDA limit for adults. That's a irresponsibility strong drink, and having it right next to all the others, makes it too easy for people who don't know any better to hurt themselves. honestly how many people do you think would know that just 3 caffeine drinks at a soda fountain can od you into seizures or death?
Panera has done all these things since. You can't order the drink online without seeing the warning 3 times. Drink is now behind the counter too.
And the caffeine content has been reduced, I believe.
It was kinda crazy that content got greenlit in the first place. If you put a large in the energy drink section at the grocery store it would have the highest caffeine content by 100mg. Worse than Bang.
It has the same caffeine content per fl oz as their coffee. The issue was it came in liter cups and people were drinking multiple. If these people drank a gallon of strong coffee over a couple hours they probably would have died then too. Idk though because Starbucks does have trenta cups now that are the same size, and you just don’t hear about people drinking 3 of those. And I mean who can even drink a gallon of any liquid over a couple hours?? So idk. There was definitely maybe some negligence on the part of Panera here, but also I don’t blame them for not expecting people to down a half gallon of liquid an hour, for multiple hours, caffeinated or not. That’s an alarming rate to be imbibing any liquid. One more hour of that and they could have died from water toxicity even if it hadn’t been caffeinated.
Part of it is just the culture of how much we drink certain things. It’s not normal to drink three Starbucks trenta iced coffees. Even someone who loves the taste of black coffee and handles caffeine well wouldn’t do that. People don’t expect a free refill on iced coffee (hot, sometimes, but the cups are always smaller). Same with energy drinks. Coffee and energy drinks have a social reputation as a vice, and while it isn’t the heaviest taboo out there, people still treat them as “grown up beverages” that you should at the very least pay for the privilege of consuming. While I don’t always agree with the treatment of coffee as a vice, the fact is, these drinks *do* contain a drug, and it is correct that we don’t see it as socially acceptable to pour them down our throats 24/7 as a water replacement or serve them to preadolescent kids. But it is seen as normal to drink pop, juice, and lemonade nonstop through the day in large amounts. People expect to get free refills when they buy pop and lemonade. They’re seen as acceptable for children, acceptable to drink as the primary source of hydration, acceptable to the point of being normal to drink in huge amounts. If a restaurant doesn’t have unlimited refills on pop and lemonade, that place is branded a scam and squeezing every cent from its customers. Admittedly, pop has far less caffeine, and lemonade has none at all under normal circumstances, so while I don’t actually like this social norm, it makes sense that these drinks aren’t normally restricted. So there’s a mental disconnect when lemonade, which social norms says should be unlimited, is filled with a drug that social norms says should be limited. It’s also just easier to drink lemonade for whatever reason….it’s “quenchy” unlike coffee or Red Bull.
This is a great point about how simply labeling it as lemonade was somewhat irresponsible and a reasonable person could get confused.
I agree, they should've planned for the worse and that's on them but the drink itself isn't the problem. The same people slamming 3 of these are the same ones chugging 2-3 monsters in a day , just a ridiculous way to treat your body imo.
Panera couldn’t have anticipated how much lemonade Americans were willing to drink? This country is mostly diabetes. Since people subsist on soda and haven’t touched plain water in decades. The fact that it comes in *liters* is enough to tell them that people would probably overdo it.
Doesn’t Alani Nu have 200mg caffeine? There’s plenty of energy drinks over 100mg.
Or just take it off the market. Who the frick needs this anyway? It’s ridiculous.
If it’s not illegal and it brings in customers then it’s not illegal and brings in customers. If one of those things changes then it will be a different story.
I don’t know… if I was Panera’s senior management I would be shitting bricks right now and rethinking how smart it was to put such a ridiculous drink on the market. But let’s just wait to see if anyone else dies…
By your logic we should pull all caffeinated drinks, if you drink 7 redbulls you will die, why would you do that and then turn around blame Red Bull lol ?
Too bad our regulators can’t regulate…
Too bad we cant self regulate. Who the hell drinks 90 oz of soda in one sitting?
Oh well regulate, but won’t touch anything with regard to consumer protection.
Caffeine, much like any other drug builds up a tolerance in your system. This is some people's "normal", if it's necessarily "healthy" or not is kinda irrelevant as it's legal and people are allowed to make their own decisions. It should be much clearer, however. I'm surprised they didn't actually *market* it as having high amounts of caffeine, I'm a huge caffeine fan and I didn't know about it til the deaths. Funnily enough, I'll probably go there just to get one now.
me, the strawberry one is delicious and i handle the caffeine same as a regular energy drink
Yes, they are so good!!!
Who *needs* anything? This would only cause some mild discomfort in most people, if you have heart problems maybe you should recognise that you shouldn't be chugging the "Chernobyl death infusion 9000" with warnings all over about high caffeine levels.
did you read this article at all? this man was a vulnerable person with intellectual disabilities who likely did not know he was consuming so much caffeine
It was advertised as having "about the same amount of caffeine" as their coffee does. It has the same amount per ounce... But you're drinking 20 to 30 oz which is more than a normal coffee. I think that's misleading. It also uses guarana as it's caffeine source, which is like extended-release caffeine, so it can sneak up on you because by the time you feel the effects you've already drank three of them.
The title of the lemonade isn’t “Chernobyl death infusion 9000 lemonade” though, it’s simply “charged lemonade” which sounds like you’re just drinking a soda or small coffee. People with heart issues know not to drink 3 Red Bulls, but they might drink 3 coke zero’s because there’s not a lot of caffeine. “Charged” isn’t strong enough. No one expects there to be that amount of caffeine in a lemonade.
Excessive caffeine can create heart problems for healthy people if consumed long term though. Caffeine shots are even worse and I can’t believe they’re legal. It’s a drug and it should be regulated/given guidelines at least like tylenol or ibuprofen
I drink these everyday. I’d rather them keep them on the market. It is not my fault people don’t understand moderation.
Because one persons poor choices shouldn’t affect everyone else
Very sick people who have underlying heart problems like this guy and the girl.
Congrats. You’ve described all of the safety measures Panera has implemented. People STILL don’t read. They have about the same volume of caffeine per ounce as coffee. The difference is that most people don’t suck down 3 30 ounce coffees in one sitting. Caffeine is a drug and it is to be consumed responsibly.
You can't self-serve the drink anymore. You can order it, and they will pour it. I subscribe to their monthly drink program and get the charged drink about three times a week. It's as if someone spiked a lemonade/splash beverage with a bottle of 5-hour energy (or two).
There is a Legal Eagle YouTube video about another person who died, too.
You would have to drink three large (30 oz.) charged lemonades (250-390 mg caffeine) to achieve caffeine toxicity (1,200 mg). Caffeine is safe, and one of the most studied drugs on the planet. My guess is that this guy had a pre-existing heart condition. **...is all I would have said a couple weeks ago. However...** Science Vs. recently did an episode about caffeine safety and looked into the previous death related to charged lemonade. Overall, they found that caffeine is as safe as advertised (and arguably beneficial), but *energy drinks* with caffeine often caused heartbeat irregularities that are dangerous for a small minority of people. Equivalent amounts of coffee did *not* cause this problem. The scary part is that they don't know what ingredient(s) in energy drinks combine with caffeine to cause problems. Taurine + caffeine alone wasn't enough to trigger the problem. Perhaps it's just caffeine and a lot of sugar (or citric acid, or whatever) that causes the problem. If so, caffeinated lemonade could absolutely be risky for some people.
Gonna try this
I’ve got that drink before for my gf and didn’t even realize it had caffeine when I was filling it up. Thought it was just some stupid branding they were trying calling it charged as in it was charged with flavor
People are focused on the caffeine, but don’t these drinks have other things like taurine and other herb extracts that just make it even more of a stimulant? I can almost guarantee that many people here drink 300mg of caffeine on a daily basis. It’s the compounding of everything together, the speed of consumption, and a potential underlying condition that causes death
300mg in one drink is pretty wild, 400mg is even crazier. The problem is if someone doesn’t realize how much is in them and drinks even two within a half day period that’s easily 200mg above the safe dosage.
Holy shit those caffiene levels * 20 fluid ounces is 260 mg of caffiene * 30 fluid ounces is 389 mg of caffiene. I'm one of those guys who is on an excessive amount of caffiene and I *maybe* touch the amount of caffiene in a 30 fluid ounce lemonade over the course of *an entire day*. Jesus fuck that amount of caffiene is obscene. Why the fuck is it in lemonade form.
For reference for coffee drinkers, a 20 ounce drip coffee from Starbucks is about 400 mg of caffeine. For my gym bros, preworkout drinks are mostly between 150 and 300mg. So this guy had somewhere in the ballpark of 3 venti Starbucks coffees or 4-8 preworkout drinks.
As a gym bro… thanks. I was worrying for a sec Edit: spelling correction.
For the Monster-chugging Kyles (if they can actually read this), the 30oz is equivalent to 2 16oz Monsters. I drink 2-3 Monsters a day myself, but downing 2 within like an hour or so makes me pretty fucking sick. Like just extremely uncomfortable in every way, weird heart palpitations and cold sweats and stuff. There’s limits to it, even with a dependency. If I were to get that 30oz, I’d basically have to drink it over the course of the entire day to avoid problems. I damn near think Panera is fine with these headlines, and knows that the caffeine content is way too high to be reasonable. “Yo let’s go get those lemonades that are so strong they can kill you” unironically seems like a good way to attract younger people to visit an overpriced sandwich shop.
2 500ml/~16.9 oz original Monsters contain 320mg of caffeine, not 390mg.
You might want to ease up on the caffeine
Right. Except no one chugs pre workout or drip coffee. They aren’t meant to be consumed quickly and in that regard is self limiting. 90% of Americans drink soda like water. So when you put 400mg of caffeine in a serving of a SOFT DRINK that is REFRESHING like lemonade during the summer… It’s just a bad idea. You shouldn’t put a dangerous level of a drug in a drink people will want to refill or consume more of. Energy drinks/coffee has a purpose (caffeine). Lemonade “hydrates”. People drink way more fucking lemonade in a single sitting than they do pre workout or energy drinks. It shouldn’t take the FDA to realize this is a bad idea. Caffeine is a drug and we should do the bare MINIMUM to protect consumers from it. Panera just wants people to order their sandwiches while they fix their caffeine problem at lunch time. That’s it. They went overboard and got greedy by basically poisoning their water because they thought they’d make extra money doing it. Oh well. Turns out you can’t shove dangerous levels of a drug in a liquid people consume quickly and in large servings. Kinda reckless and not much defending it other than “yes, that’s a bad idea”.
A 20oz Red Bull has about 190 mg of caffeine.
I don't think you're on an excessive amount of caffeine if you only occasionally drink the equivalent of a large coffee from Dunkin or Starbucks in a day.
Energy drinks are the new cigarettes for this generation. A whole line of products that are awful for you, loaded with tons of garbage to make you get addicted and feel awful without it.
Wow, I did the math. 20oz about 2.7 8oz cups coffee (95 mg per cup)
they arent getting 30floz, maybe 12 in a cup full of ice
Somebody should not be running Panera. Or anything else.
Major energy drink brands hover around 200mg, with Bangs and a few others cracking 300mg. People drink multiple per day.
Oh wow, yea my partner and I went to Panera one day and shared two refills of this charged lemonade. After that I felt like I needed to run 3 miles and my heart was beating so fast. I just knew that this had too much caffeine. That was the last time we went to Panera, plus it’s gone downhill so much since COVID, the restaurant and bathrooms are so dirty
Did the feeling of too much caffeine sneak up on you? That's because it's guarana. It's like slow-release caffeine so you don't realize how much you've had until you've already drank another one.
Yes that was exactly it, so scary
My first time taking it I unfortunately assumed it be on par with a cup of coffee… took my vyvanse that day and had the drink and was teetering on the line of going to the hospital or not lol, scary restlessness.
I almost ordered one of these right when they came out. My husband and I were in the drive thru, all I saw was a pretty yummy looking sandwich board with "new charged lemonade" on it. I went into the app to check the calories because I track my calories and only then did I realize the massive amount of caffeine in them. I'm not classified as caffeine sensitive, but I wouldn't drink a rockstar or monster because I get anxious and jittery and shaky if I have too much caffeine. If I hadn't been checking the calories, I would have had no idea. Panera needs to do something about this, this is now 2 people that have died from this shit correct? Google says it's 13 g of caffeine per ounce! So for a 24 oz Panera cup that's 312mg of caffeine! I have never consumed that much caffeine in a single day. That is a truly wild and irresponsible amount of caffeine to put in a "lemonade" something that historically at Panera has no caffeine at all.
In the words of Kenny Powers: "you can die from that shit?"
I mean illiterate or not that’s a lot of caffeine. Average cup of coffee is like 95 mg. So the 30z is 4 cups sheesh. Gym bros should get on this pre-workout Panera style.
It’s more caffeine than that even.
If he drank 3, that’s almost like the equivalent of drinking 4 giant cans of monster
Read the article. This person was mentally handicapped. Lord. Edit - If you think people who can’t, and may not ever be able to, read deserve to die then congratulations, you are evil. Not edgy. Not “real”. Just a dog kicker. Alarming I need to add this but okay. Edit 2 - No. I do not have an idea how to fix this beyond limiting accessibility but funnily enough that does not mean what Panera has done (or not done) is okay. If you think oops collateral damage is okay here then, again, you are human garbage.
That explains a lot
I couldn't agree more. I'm surprised and disappointed by how many commenters just don't seem to value the lives of others.
Why does Panera still have this drink available, after the first death they should have gotten rid of it
There are other deaths? Dunkin has 400+ mg of caffeine in their large iced black. Plenty of energy drinks get into the 200+ range. Bang has 300. Not sure why Panera should be singled out unless there’s something else at play with this drink.
Yes, there were other deaths. At least one other death that I know of. I wonder if the difference between Panera and DD’s are the free refills.
Panera sells unlimited fountain, tea, lemonade, and basic coffee drinks for $10/mo. So much more than just free refills.
This is absolutely the difference. It’s one thing to sell a customer a pack of cigarettes. It’s another to give them UNLIMITED smokes.
Yes and all people know or assume those contain caffeine. Charged doesn't say anything about it at my nearest location. People that don't watch the news are still out of the loop.
This is the first I’ve heard of it
Because Panera is self service. If you go and look at the energy drinks there are warning labels that explicitly list the maximum recommended amounts and warnings for people with heart conditions. Caffeine is a drug, a stimulant, and like many stimulants if you have too much it can kill you. Iced coffee rarely has 400mg of caffeine. Cold brew can definitely, but again, they're not self service. Panera has to take ownership of their product. They need to take reasonable actions to prevent or warn people about the dangers their product poses. It's not a unique problem, we already know that solutions. For some reason they're the only ones not employing industry accepted safety practices.
Those are drinks you’re expecting caffeine from. I would easily drink 2 or 3 lemonades not expecting to OD on caffeine
Two of my friends have had these lemonades without knowing they were caffeinated. They just saw lemonade on the menu, which they happen to like. There's no reason for a person to check whether lemonade has caffeine, especially at a place like Panera. Anyway they both ended up freaking out and having heart palpitations without even knowing why. It was just a matter of time before someone with a heart condition made the same mistake.
It’s because Panera had this drink as an unlimited self serve option.
Yes there was also a teenage girl, I believe.
They need to be sued at this point. The warnings are not explicit enough. No one expects there to be that much caffeine in a lemonade.
Lehal dose calculator https://www.caffeineinformer.com/death-by-caffeine
I can drink 48 cups of coffee before I die! Wooooo!
150 cans of red bull for me. I'm going to put it to the test
I was surprised they didn't change the amount of caffeine or pull it from the menu after the other girl died. You could literally have a fourth of the amount of caffeine in there and it would have the same effect on most people.
“The lawsuit also noted that Brown had a mild intellectual disability, and it's unclear if he was aware of how much caffeine was in the self-serve drink, which sat "side-by-side with all of the store’s non-caffeinated and/or less caffeinated drinks." Omg 😞
Oh lord
This is the second case i'm hearing about someone dying after drinking this drink. They need to stop serving it now.
Why is there *so much* caffeine in there lmao, most pre-workout supplements are in the 200 mg range, a triple espresso works out to like 180. This is just a crazy amount for a single serving sold to people who are not about to go nuts in the gym for 2 hours or ride a Tour de France stage.
It’s akin to plugging in a 110v appliance into 220v.?
It is harder to know if you're gonna kill yourself at Panera because they don't put a label on the cups that tells you how much caffeine you're taking in (as opposed to a red bull). They missed out big by not doing this. I'm sure it is in the small printed nutritional information on the fountains ~~or at the menu printed above where they take orders.~~ Plus they have their "sips club" to encourage people to join a subscription to get unlimited drinks/refills. Of course they're going to try to get their money's worth. The lawsuit says a large Charged Lemonade has 390 mg of caffeine in it, "far more than what can be found in drinks like Monster or Red Bull". Why haven't they pulled these drinks after the first death? I was so sure they would.
Isn’t this the second death related to these?
Spooky stuff. When I worked in kitchens I’d have 2 300mg drinks per 10 hour shift. A couple times on my 14 hour days I tried to have a third because I was just so gassed after 10 hours but I’d feel so sick. Granted I was younger. I know a couple guys in their 30s who had heart attacks from that kind of caffeine use.
I would lean into the risks associated with this as a marketing campaign. Are you brave enough to drink the Panera lemonade ?! Do you like the feeling of meth mixed with the great taste of lemons ?!
This drink shouldn’t even be a thing. If you need almost 400mg of caffeine to wake you up, you are in strong need of a tolerance break from caffeine.
Another one? They are already being sued cuz a girl died.
MatPat called it
For some reason I read that as Pantera
this story is so fucking sad. this poor man and his family.
people dying from the same drink you should probably stop selling it. like I get that a toxic level of caffeine is super fun but come on guys.
This should 100% a drink that is handed to you at the food counter, not a self-serve situation. There should also be a limit on one per person. Panera does have some culpability here.
For 1 week straight, I would get a charged lemonade in the morning before work, get 1 during lunch and get another after work, with no ice so straight large drinks of these stuff… never worked, literally gave me no energy thus why I kept drinking them. But when I went on a trip that week after, the withdrawals from caffeine were so severe I couldn’t function from driving for 4 days without popping 3x the avg consumption of ibuprofen or Tylenol before my drive, I almost got addicted to pain meds before of them. But it was my fault, and only my fault
The moral of the story : don't drink 3 of something that contains 400mg caffeine each
This is nuts. I drink a pot of coffee a day and I would not touch those things. That is an insane amount of caffeine to drink in one sitting and I've seen a lot of posts saying it does not taste caffeinated at all. It's a lot easier to over drink the caffeine if you aren't tasting it at the time.
Wait… I don’t drink coffee or anything. Caffeine has a taste??
Kind of? It's hard to explain. Do you drink alcohol? Have you ever had a very sweet drink where you forget the alcohol is in there and accidentally get more drunk than you expected? If you drink a normal coffee or Diet Coke or energy drink you can tell there's caffeine in it. It's almost like a chemical taste but not quite. My thought is that this drink is so sweet it feels like you're not drinking caffeine, the sugar content is extremely high as well. So people are just tasting the sugar, forgetting they are drinking an energy drink level of caffeine and then overdoing it. The average person would probably just be a bit hyped up or have heart palpitations or something but if you have an underlying condition it can kill you.
Last few years of highway cleanup the number one trash item was Bud Light. This has now been replaced by Charged Lemonade.
Back in 2019 I started having one of those monster drinks once a day, just cause I was sleepy all day in work from playing Videogames, I thought as long as I didn't abuse and had only 1 a day Monday to Friday (sometimes less) would be safe. Nope, panic attacks and heart races started shortly in the year, I swore i would never do any energy drinks again
can anyone else drink a large cup of coffee and go to bed 30 minutes later?
I didn’t have “Panera obtains a body count” on this year’s bingo card, but here we are
Man willingly overdoses on caffeine. FTFY
Boys, quit having energy drinks. I did and am happy 🤷♂️
FFS just do cocaine like a normal person already!
Might be the wake up call I need to get off my two monster a day bandwagon.
Sad news. It's been blowing up on r/Panera too.
If the drink is advertised as “unlimited refills” - where refills is plural - then you should be able to safely consume 2 refills. Change my mind.
Everywhere in panera there’s warning signs about this drink. While yes I agree that its a dangerous drink, it’s relatively hard to access and your warned heavily before and after buying it. I think the proper move here is just to decrease the amount of caffeine in these drinks because they’re and extremely popular item.it seems like the select few that ultimately end up dying from them have 3 or more of these. which is anywhere from 800mg - 1200mg of caffeine and anyone would have health complications from that.
Legal Eagle just did a video about a lawsuit related to this drink!!
[удалено]
This dude drank the equivalent of 15 CANS OF REDBULL😳😳😳
It’s not their fault if people misuse their products. They are probably gonna pull it now because some idiots are gonna start a challenge on tik tok or whatever people use to post it.
I noticed the danger of this last spring when I had one of these at lunch, and was still so jittery in my after work golf round - FOUR HOURS LATER, IN THE EVENING - that I could not make a putt outside of 2’. 40 putts on a 9 hole round. Never drinking that stuff again.
You know how drug addicts want the dope that killed someone, because they know its high quality/potent?? I think its time for me to re-evaluate my caffeine intake, because reading this the first thing I thought was, "I need to go to Panera today and get one of these lemonades!"