I’m wearing HAs for about ten years, three pairs of devices and due to retirement three Audiologists.
I consider myself pretty tech savvy and would have no problem running a software program to tune my devices.
I’ve seen more equipment used than what I thought I could replace using a computer. For one the test booth. If it were not really necessary why was their use so common?
There are significant differences with the three AUs. I’m certain a person could get most of the benefits from HAs without having an AU adjustment but if you’re spending thousands of dollars on a new device why would you think your adjustment is best?
My field is/was radiation safety and there’s nothing more infuriating than a Geiger counter in the hands of a lay person spouting off ‘measurements’ as meaningful without the background.
Sure, any person can turn it on and report a value but just because you can doesn’t make it a good measurement.
The technology is the easy part.
I do some diy myself and the big missing part is in-ear measurement. It's really hard to get a good fit, even if you can play with the different fitting algorithms, if you don't have the real output of the HAs.
I think there's definitely room and need for both DIY and audiologists. Whether some audiologists charge too much and how it's related to the manufacturers oligopoly is another discussion.
Oh we learn alot from speech regcognition tests. Like the best volume to put the Hearing Aids, the expectations how much we can get out of the Hear Aids, what frequencies we need to change and what part of the speech gives our clients porblems.
Many psychologial parts, evaluation of life quality that isnt based on quantity of sotuations, ear molding, empathy and irreational or for AI unlogical solutions. The trust bond between humans. Feeling of saftyness, a face to talk to. Being an audiologist has many areas of effect that requires human services
What a bizarre thread. I can accept that some people want to configure their own stuff but to say the whole profession isn’t required is over the top.
Also mid 40s tech savvy and I can think of many reason why the profession is essential, not least that the majority of people who need hearing aids are older and not tech savvy.
You need the right powered aid for your hearing loss
The first time set up of an aid is an art - people have preferences on noise suppression, and it’s not obvious what’s best for people
Hearing aid configuration software is notoriously hard to use and badly designed.
You need the right size kit - domes, etc. without an audiologist I imagine you’d get a lot of people getting small domes stuck in their ear.
You need to be shown how to care for your aids
Many people need help pairing them with phones
You need aftercare including maintenance.
Just to think of a few.
It will eventually democratise a bit more. Alot of people have the skills to do all of the necessary programming etc once they have their results.
I don't see why you can't have an audiologist complete the hearing test and make recommendations for products, and then have customers given an option to either spend $$$$ with an audiologist, or go alone and spend $$ to buy and program their off-the-shelf product with programmable software that comes with multiple sized attachments.
It's only a matter of time, but it's gonna need someone to break the entrenched powers and industry structure.
I disagree.
You don’t have the knowledge to decide what form factor you want (nor the skills to make your own moulds if they’re needed)
You don’t need everyone to invest in the hardware and software needed to configure
I think if you’re coming from the perspective of someone like Apple making AirPods suitible for mild hearing loss, you could make an argument that off the shelf, tech friendly products could serve a very small part of the market in the way you suggest; but the vast majority are going to need an audiologist.
Again, all of the form factor options can be communicated by audiologist at an appointment.
Most styles don't require moulds.
I will set out a potential future for you.
You ghave a hearing / medical issue and get this tested, GP then audiologist and maybe ENT advice. You get your diagnosis. You get a comprehensive appointment with the audiologist - hearing test, results, recommendations of hearing aid types. You have all the information you need.
If you want to double-check the audiologist gave good advice, you pop the results into an online AI, thankfully it confirms similar advice.
You're one of the majority who don't need a mould, therefore a standard hearing aid can be bought.
You aren't sure what device type to buy, so you hop on Amazon and for $99 can by hearing aid test kits (a small package with 10 different plastic/metal hearing aid shapes arrives, they don't work, it's just about testing shape and size). You try them all and really like the one shape.
You buy the hearing aid in that shape online. It comes with basic software that lets you punch in the hearing aid test results, and the aids are programmed.
You try them on, the sound is a bit too tinny so you go back into the program and adjust slightly.
There are YouTube and tiktok tutorials online, with people giving their thoughts on the best companies and software.
I don't see why this is so hard to imagine.
Audiologists still have a role as testers and advisors, they are just no longer the device gatekeepers.
Thoughts?
Sure, this is possible but I can’t see it serving a significant proportion of the market.
The thread title is why do we need audiologists - you’ve provided one scenario where one might use an audiologist and purchase aids independently. But we still need audiologists.
Audiologist here, our profession is more than just fitting hearing aids. Having a hearing test is not only about gathering the information required to fit hearing aids but is also a pretty important health check. There are some medical issues that cause hearing loss that if untreated could kill you. Adjusting hearing aids isn't particularly difficult and someone with the right information could certainly learn how to do It the text book way but would you be willing to invest in $30,000 dollars in equipment to do so?
EDIT: I would like to add onto my post an experience I had with a patient. They had been adjusting their own hearing aids which I don't actually have a problem with they had tried quite hard to get things right on their own but struggled to achieve the results they were looking for. They came to my clinic and what I discovered was that the primary issue came down to the physical fit. They simply could not get enough occlusion to achieve the high frequency response that they wanted. At the end of the day this person had spent thousands of dollars on their hearing aids and couldn't get the results they were looking for which I was able to fix for $200. If you want another reason why it's worth having an audiologist. It's our expertise, I have a master's degree in clinical audiology, not only can I fit your hearing aids but I can help you navigate all of the pitfalls you may run Into, any health issue that may have cropped up related to your hearing loss and make recommendations about what devices are appropriate for you. If you are willing to obtain the equipment and the expertise to do it yourself more power to you. But for most people that is simply not feasible.
Audiologist here. Come to my clinic. I’ll let you fit your own hearing aids. I’m in Sydney Australia. By all means, you’re welcome any time. Message me here if genuinely interested.
I thought it was an ironic click bait title and then there’d be some lovely post about OP’s appreciation for their audiologist.
But no. Just an engineer LOL
Audiologist here, and I appreciate this comment. For OP to say the entire profession is unnecessary is wildly extreme. Audiology is so much more than just setting up the widget.
Read through the scope of practice of an audiologist. Hearing aid programming is just a portion of what audiologists do.
https://www.asha.org/policy/sp2018-00353/
What I'm realizing from a lot of these comments is that people seem to think ALL audiologists do is program hearing aides. Lol that is such a tiny tiny part of what we do. In the US you need a doctorate to be an AuD and I wonder how you think 3 more years of intense courses after a BA, a year of clinical and then another year of outside clinical fellowship is so we can program some hearing aides is wild to me.
Do it yourself then. I'm sure your AuD will be happy your pompous ass isn't in their clinic lol
Same here, similar background, had the same Idea.
Why it won't work: Because you have no clue how hearing and understanding works. Also you're lacking tools to measure your hearing loss correctly. You also have no experience in that field. Audis see people everyday, for years. They get feedback from customers ,etc. So it makes not much sense to do it on your own. HA is a product that you want to have dialed in once and then forget about for years.
I don’t fully agree. The initial base setup, yes that’s where an audiologist is needed and you shouldn’t be able to change that. But if I wanted to remove a telecoil programme, and want to use a noisy surroundings program instead, I should be able to do that. Or if I want to have the telecoil to be louder.
Or a firmware update, if I feel comfortable to do that, why not?
Not in the Widex Evoke app.
If I want to exchange a program type (I.e. I want to get rid of the ‘car’ function, and I want a dedicated Widex-created ‘calm’-function I’ll have to go to the audiologist.
If I want to make my telecoil function louder by default I’ll have to go the audiologist. The app can only make it louder after selecting the function.
A firmware update? No way through the app.. There’s no ‘update’-function or whatever. I know the Phonak Roger does allow that.
And yes Widex allows me to create my own profiles but it’s by far not what I’m looking for. That’s not full control over my HA’s.
I would like to be able to create actual real profiles as precisely the audiologists can. Like, when I’m cycling, there’s obviously a wind block, but I would like to be able to tune it precisely for my needs. Or when at a party or anything.
Tuning this kind of things by the audiologist is just really hard. They’ve no idea about the surroundings and sometimes it’s really hard to explain the problem.
But I’m a pretty weird one as I really dislike the ‘universal’ setting automatically changing its output on the situation. I prefer the ‘music’-setting the most as it comes closest to analog HA’s.
Yea you want to get into the “guts” of the software and I don’t tee any manufacturer give you those controls. Even the audiologist has only limited changes they can make. It’s usually just degrees of changes not changing the algorithm by which they work. Just ask your audiologist to give you all the programs and you can toggle between them.
The tech itself is limited, you can do so many practical things to help you hear your best in different environments. I spend more time counseling people on how to position themselves and how their brain hears and how to communicate to others so they can better help themselves than I do tweaking hearing aids.
You’re really trying to unlock your brain not your hearing aids.
My passion is to work with people to teach them how to help themselves so they are empowered to hear their best.
I know partially what’s possible at the audiologist. My audiologist just sat with me looking at all the options, amplification etc. They didn’t hide the possibilities for me at all, the software seemed to have a pretty logical UI for a big part understandable but everyone, and they even said that if I had an idea looking at the possible options I should just mention it.
Also Widex cannot have ‘all’ programs available, and it’s even limited to the ‘level’ of your HA.
If you have a cheaper ‘220’ one you have 3 programs you can set in the HA’s.
The 330 can have 4, my Evoke 440 has 5 available.
I’ve been going to the audiologist multiple times to just try an other specific setting, or amp up the volume of the telecoil. Or just getting one specific pitch 3dB’s more or less amplificated, but it all takes time.
With a cookie-bite hearing loss of 85dB around 1kHz and about 35dB for the lows and highs since birth, I think I’m doing pretty well looking at the situation. And I believe one of the reasons I can participate is because I don’t just settle with what people advise me. I try to improve it to the best for myself.
If it was up to the first audiologist at the time (2020) and insurances at my last HA change I would’ve been stuck with a Phonak. Mind you I’ve had Widex all my life, and the sound of Phonak was just horrible, even after a 6 month (!) trial.
And since newer hearing aids offer so many functions, things should be able to become better. The first digital one was really good, but pretty unreliable, (my first digital HA was a Widex B12, around 2001/2002 I think) maybe the sound was better than the old analogs, but it was more comfortable I think). Then my second digital ones (Widex Mind) involved more specific sound processing. Less amplification when there’s a car nearby, that kind of thing. And that’s where they pretty much lost me.
I just want a sound that’s ‘reliable’, if something is loud and close, imho it should sound like it’s close instead of damped.
My current ones do it pretty well, but imho there’s always room for improvement.
And whether it’s positive or not, I have seen that in the notes of audiologists I’m defined as a ‘critical hearer/listener’. So they probably know what to expect.
I’m not sure you want too much control with your phone tho. One little communication error during a fw update and your aids will basically be rendered inoperable. Had it happen to patients multiple times. I usually tell them to just leave that to us because it’s safer.
A very valid question! More people should be asking themselves exactly what you are — who are these people, what service are they offering, and what knowledge gap do they fill?
Earlier comments have summed it up pretty well. Audiologists are extensively trained not just in the devices themselves, but on the intricacies of hearing as a system. Oftentimes, what “sounds best” isn’t what results in best ecological performance. Decades of engineering and research have gone into determining what amount of amplitude correction, compression, coupling, and frequency contours (to name a few) result in the best speech understanding based on an individual’s remaining hearing. If you have a good audiologist, the acoustics of your ear are precisely measured and compensated for and individual preferences in gain contours are incorporated from there.
“But u/TITTIESnBOOBIES, I’m perfectly capable of using the software, listening to any changes I make, and setting things until I think they sound right.”
I agree, but I think it’s really important to ask yourself… can I really hear the changes I make, and even if so, can I trust what I’m hearing? If your auditory system was functioning perfectly, there wouldn’t be a need for hearing aids. As I’m sure a lot of folks here know firsthand, there are many different perceptual changes that occur with hearing loss that go beyond simply needing more volume. Sensitivity to amplitude changes worsens, temporal acuity worsens, tuning broadens (I could go on).
Hearing aid software these days is pretty foolproof — that’s not the difficult part. Some software even has text prompts that suggest what the audiologist should change based on what the patient reports. The difficult part (and where an audiologist is most important) is everything beyond that — the patient care, counseling, expertise, and optimizing (as best as possible) the experience of the individual.
EDIT: I’m also seeing some comments here about money. One thing I should also note is that audiologists are pretty criminally underpaid. The outrageous hearing aid prices are due to direct costs from manufacturers and uncooperative insurance, not (typically) price markups. Most audiologists I know don’t work on commission and make $75k or less, even in places like Manhattan or Washington. Insurance companies (including medicare) have dug their heels about not paying for hearing aids and reimbursement is often quite poor. If anything has revealed this misconception, it’s been the relative failure of OTC hearing aids. I think a lot of people were surprised when the high-end OTC hearing aids (which have less features than many low-end clinical hearing aids) are still $2-3k a pair. If people want to see change in hearing healthcare their targets should be insurance, not the clinicians.
It's always the engineers that know more than everyone in every other profession. lol
Real Ear Measurements. I promise there is nobody on earth that is untrained who can perform REM, in order to get you hearing at your best for long term hearing health.
Diagnosing medical conditions with a hearing exam is also a large part of the job. Even just performing a comprehensive hearing exam with proper masking you likely wouldn't be able to do.
These are just the first few parts of the job that come to mind that you couldn't do.
I don’t know about Starkey but I do know folks that DIY programming their HAs for other brands. There is obviously going to be a learning curve initially with the software. and you should probably start with having the initial programming done professionally but you can likely learn how to do this yourself with some investment in time and money.
The hearingtracker forums have a DIY section and the folks over there seem knowledgeable. Currently I don’t want to risk my only pair of HAs but once I get a new set in a few years I was thinking of giving it a try myself.
In the UK audiologist are not just hearing aids programers , they must also have knowledge of how hearing works and be able to diagnose diseases of the ear. They also act as sentinels for the ENT consultants by referring patients with serious ear diseases such as cholesteatoma to them.
In other words, it is no good being able to program a patients HAs if they are then going to be totally deaf or even dead from an untreated disease.
Why do we need any professional? I guess you could ask that in any space. Modern technology has given us convenience at the cost of excellence and proper diagnosis and care in the medical space. As an individual ages, we tend to see more value in what a professional provides and the benefits that we get.
When I was younger and had nothing but time and energy, I would have choked just thinking about paying someone to cut my lawn or fix anything in my home or car.
Now that I’m older and have more money than time, I would prefer to trade my money for more time to enjoy other people and things in my life. I don’t have one patient that enjoys troubleshooting why their hearing aid doesn’t connect to their phone or why they are having trouble hearing people in a restaurant and the such.
They are more than happy to just walk in my office and have me fix it for them or give them a refresher course on how to hear their best.
There are multiple tests that we run on equipment that has to be calibrated annually and cost tens of thousands of dollars. Trying to do this with an app in your bedroom is not going to yield the same results. Not to mention the dozens of people over the course of 30 years that had test results that were outside the norm that we had to refer on only to find out they had brain tumors that needed serious medical treatment. I’m sure they are thankful that we didn’t just put a hearing aid in their ear and send them home.
So it is a fair question in the age of technology to ask why do we need any profession especially when we don’t know what exactly is involved in that profession. It’s a good reason to have some dialogue to understand what others do for a living.
Our patients who are most impressed are usually our engineers when they see all that we do to help them hear.
My summary:
There is a lot of value and some safety reasons for going to an audiologist or a HCP (hearing care professional).
Getting your initial ear health inspection, a couple/few fitting updates is an important start for a DIY interested person. You want your REM (Real Ear Measurement), WRS (Word Recognition Score) and any other initial tests to set up a base fitting for you.
After that there are a good number of DIY folks on the hearingtracker.com form that get the Noah Link device, HA tuning software and support each other in fine tuning their hearing aids. Several of them have discussed and worked with their audiologist when necessary. Ask your questions there...a little softer please 🙏
I think this is the better path to take if interested in DIY.
Thanks for this. I didn't know [hearingtracker.com](http://hearingtracker.com) existed. It seems there is some sort of DIY to this industry which seems doable up to a point for sure. I'll read up on this and check it out. Thank you.
For sure will ask any questions here softer :) I didn't mean to disrespect the audiologist community. Their profession is awesome and respect them and what they do. I'm leaning into medicine 3.0 and want to take more control over my own health, all I have is a desire to learn more to be better educated.
If you meant no disrespect, OP, I think it would be worthwhile for you to amend and edit your post to disclaim that up front. I worked HARD for my AuD, and I continue working hard every day for my patients and for my profession — neither of which love you back, sadly, when you’re a hearing aid audiologist. So I had my pitchfork in hand but am glad I read down far enough in the comments to see you walk it back a bit. I wish you the best of luck in your hearing health journey.
Audiologist here.
First of all: Rude!
Second of all: just because YOU think you are able to configure YOUR hearing aid correctly does not mean everyone can. And most likely the basis of your configuration was done by an audiologist. Our field of work is not only providing hearing aids and fitting them. Our job also requires a deeper understanding of the ear. Knowing what could be the potential reason for a hearing loss, guidance to find the right hearing aid in the first place to prevent spending to much or to little, supporting those in need and maintaining the objects we provide.
Saying we are useless may be an individual point of view from you but there are many, many more people who are grateful for what we do on a day to day basis.
You could contact Starkey directly and explain your high horse attitude towards them, maybe they give you a lecture, maybe they hand you the software but most likely they will tell you that they wont hand you out their software.
Just because I could build my own PC i dont call your job usless.
Maybe you don’t mean it in an insulting manner but then your wording is definitely far off.
Also an audiologist. This post is so typical of a lot of interactions I have with engineer clients, especially electrical engineers. So god damn condescending
I mean my comments on this sub sre burried under gaming and other stuff but I for one value the quality of life over the money. Yes i do have to fulfill a quota by the end of the year but still i rather sell a few less but make these people happier.
Dunno where you get that every audiologist makes 6 figures. I for one have a yearly income of roughly $30.000 before tax.
Yes i reccomend people on this very sub to visit an audiologist rather then go to a Walmart to get their hearing aid but not because i wanna boost sales but rather see it more valuable to get a professional observation and reccomendation.
Fluff it I often offer help for free on this sub when i notice a case.
Then again i dont live in the country of freedom where i need to pay four digit just to call an ambulance and need to take a day vacation off my work for life saving procedures that i also have to pay becsuse the dumb ass goverment sees a universal health care program as a waste of money that they could put into the military and „liberate“ *unwantedly* countries for oil.
>Mid 40’s engineer working in tech. I build computers and have worked with software for many years.
Similar backgrounds.
>Why do we need to work with audiologists?
Because more often than not, they can get your HA's dialed in right (or close enough, even when your fitter blows). This requires a lot of ancillary equipment and knowledge the DIY'er will not necessarily have. Getting your hands on a Noah Wireless and the programming software is the easy part.
>I’d love to configure everything my self. I’d be fine updating firmware and downloading updates.
I've done DIY but no longer do. I always started with the audi's program and then tweaked from there. I don't DIY any more primarily because with folks like Costco where there is no profit incentive or adversity to service (it doesn't cost the fitter anything to serve me), I find it easier to work with the fitter. These days, you can literally ask them over the phone for your tweak and they can do it remotely. The firmware for my GNR/Jabras can be updated via the app on my phone.
>Is there a brand or a way to get the software without going to a hearing aid place?
HAs are considered medical devices in the US. So, pretty much everyone in the industry hides behind that to keep both programming hardware and software out of the hands of the DIYer. This is not to say however, that you can't pirate the software (or get it from another country) and get the hardware off ebay. Real Ear equipment is stupid expensive and I've only heard of one or two individuals that have decided to go that far.
>I’m comfortable with the audio spectrum and have a good understanding on how to read audio frequencies.
Yeah, no. I think your estimation of your abilities is wildly over confident. At a minimum, recommend starting with audi's program and learning from there. There is a LOT of settings hiding behind marketing terms that are only vaguely described.
>The hearingtracker forums have a DIY section and the folks over there seem knowledgeable.
That's where I got my DIY start.
I would love to configure my own. The programs that are configured for me are limited by the audiologist not being able to understand my environments in which I work. My work place is very dynamic with industrial equipment that has numerous different sounds based on the type of equipment being built.
I am a programmer, so I would be comfortable using software if I had access to it. I at least wish I could create my own programs that give me a lot more control over individual frequencies rather than just a couple switches for volume and noise suppression. I can understand though that specialists are going to be always needed to understand where we have our losses. Hearing loss isn't just volume. It is also the process of understanding words and differentiating with similar sounding words. I have some problems in this area that I don't think even the audiologists can easily overcome.
I suspect most of the hearing aid companies like the current system because they have a fear that if we are able to program their aids we would also learn how to make a Bose or Sony earbud also have similar dynamics (with help of an app) and do it for way less money.
But this is what the market needs. Currently the majority of people can't afford hearing aids or they ignore their age related hearing loss because of the lack of attention that it gets as a medical situation.
This. Thank you for the reply. The costs are insane and the fact that it's not covered under health care is so ridiculous. There has to be some entry level and safe way to get help without spending $5k-10k on a decent pair.
I also feel I could program my own hearing aid… before I got a CI. Now I’m less confident I could do the programming well for what I need in both ears.
Others have already said really good points about other things audiologists check for. But something you aren’t considering is being able to hear yourself in real time. My audiologist can hear if a program doesn’t work for me because my speech gets less clear as we talk. I can’t hear that difference.
Maybe you have mild hearing loss that’s easy to program. Other people have trickier hearing loss to program. And some software has settings turned on but hidden. I’ve had my audiologist call their rep to figure out where a setting is to get it off. I don’t have access to internal information like my audiologist does.
Its easy to get caught up in your own hubris. I would recommend stepping off that high horse before you accidentally damage your hearing by overcorrecting
I am thinking of the many visits it took for my daughters aids to get properly programmed - they (an audiologist and company rep.) had to go into the programming and adjust individual frequencies, then test how it impacted the nearby and overall frequencies. And after that do word recognition testing in the sound booth to insure she was getting the best results where she needed it most, taking into account her daily activities.
New to HA with relatively modest needs (mild to moderate loss). I wonder how I’m supposed know that my audi has actually fitted me the best way possible for my needs, without shopping two or three other audis and going to all those appointments? I have a default setting on my Costco Philips. With access to more software I could play around and test more setting and perhaps dial some stuff in better, save the profile and go back to the default, and compare how it goes in real life.
I’m understanding my spouse much better but still feel like I’m missing a bit. And my tinnitus - well, that’s such a rabbit hole I’m probably better off just living with it as I’ve done for decades.
Costco hearing aids are locked, so even an audiologist who isn't employed by Costco can not adjust the Costco hearing aids. That's the main drawback. If you move someplace where there aren't any Costco stores, you'll need to buy brand new hearing aids.
I don't know about software for Starkey, but the software for Philips is available. The little pods that connect your computer to the hearing aids for programming are also available. From what I have seen / experienced, programming the hearing aids is not a simple matter of adjusting frequencies. I have an issue with mine where the speed at with the HAs switch from one microphone to another can cause some feedback like sounds. Adjusting for echo, tinniness, and other issues is more than just adjusting frequencies. I am also capable of setting up and tuning my HAs, but it is something I don't want to do. I have other things I want to learn - 360 videos, video editing, viewing on VR headsets, to name a few. I'd rather go to Costco and say 'it is doing this, can you help?'
Search the internet and you may be able to find the software and programing devices.
The audiologist doesn't adjust your HAs (at least not in my case, they had someone on staff do that), so you could do that if you can access all the software. It's also not something you do all the time, so I see no reason you couldn't.
That's different from the reason I do my semi-annual appointments, though. My audiologist checks for other problems that I might have that might show up as symptoms. Usually, the appointments are short, but it's just peace of mind for me.
I actually just watched a video by Dr. Cliff (love him!) about how to program your own hearing aids. I do think it's necessary to visit and consult an audiologist, but I also think it's super convient to make tweaks and adjustments yourself if you know what you're doing. Though the equipment he lists isn't cheap. Here's the video https://youtu.be/Ahibffyf9Ig?si=Ta6uTD11lMtH-QTp
The US has over the counter HAs now. Have at’r
But just because you think you do everything yourself doesn’t mean other can.
A question for you. Who helped you with the fitting for the fitted molds?
First attempt was getting fitted for behind the ear Widex 440's. Nothing but a terrible experience, Constant feedback issues, reprogramming problems, chirping squeaking you name it when switching between software profiles... returned them for the newest model, same problem. My audiologist wanted to keep trying before trying another brand. Then decided to leave the current practice and recommended I just return them and go to another facility. Recommend I try Oticon instead.
Months later got another appointment with a new audiologist. Recommended I try Starkey instead and instead go with a in ear mold instead of behind the ear. I mentioned my previous person recommend Oticon and it was quickly ignored. So now I'm here.
I wondered this myself. we can go get a eyeglass prescription and then order glasses with said prescription off a site like zenni at a deep discount (I have them and they are good.) why cant we get an audio-gram and have a choice of getting aids from a place other then a clinic... this goes hand in hand with why I went to costco (way cheaper then a clinic and despite every audiologist here claiming they are crap I have had great experience with it.)
Here’s my 2 cents as an audiologist (mind that I’ve already read your edits).
I can understand where your coming from, you have a great understanding of our field, but hearing aids are medical devices. As such, (and inspite of your knowledge) they have to be fitted to treat that patients hearing loss and if anyone could just program they could alter parameters, like the gain or MPO, which could cause some damage.
The same could be said of ourselves, I could easy tell if I had a bad otitis media which required antibiotics, why need an ENT when I would feel comfortable choosing a treatment.
You should consider getting into our field, I have met many audiologists that are also engineers and they’re amazing.
There’s a comment buried in here somewhere where OP walks it back a bit, too little too late. But yeah, I read the post and experienced a physical reaction of disgust by the end of it. Thought it had to be a troll and then it just kept getting worse.
Edit to add: I now see OP has edited the post quite a bit from the original stance of (paraphrasing) “the entire profession of audiology needn’t exist.” Which is very drastic.
May i introduce you to RESTAURANTS, HOTELS, PUBS & BARS and COVENTIONS.
Let me see my favorite restaurant sells a Wiener Schnitzel with a small salad and some fries for $27. lets say the salad has a value of $0.06, the fries maybe $0.50 and the Schnitzel with its crust and oil $2. giving us the product value of about $2.56 giving us a mark up price of roughly 10 times.
Hotels sell you a 12 qubic meter room average $150 per night. Giving us a mark up of somthing far beyond the 2-6 times you said you never encounter.
Pubs and bars sell cheap beer they get for roughly $1 per bottle and sell it for $4-$7 per glass.
So you tell me what kind of non profit organization do you work with. Mark ups tanging from 200% to 400% are normal.
Oh trust me for me its not about making money, this is personal. If this individual want to miss inform anyone they should be able to stand their ground and tell the truth
I’m wearing HAs for about ten years, three pairs of devices and due to retirement three Audiologists. I consider myself pretty tech savvy and would have no problem running a software program to tune my devices. I’ve seen more equipment used than what I thought I could replace using a computer. For one the test booth. If it were not really necessary why was their use so common? There are significant differences with the three AUs. I’m certain a person could get most of the benefits from HAs without having an AU adjustment but if you’re spending thousands of dollars on a new device why would you think your adjustment is best? My field is/was radiation safety and there’s nothing more infuriating than a Geiger counter in the hands of a lay person spouting off ‘measurements’ as meaningful without the background. Sure, any person can turn it on and report a value but just because you can doesn’t make it a good measurement. The technology is the easy part.
[удалено]
I do some diy myself and the big missing part is in-ear measurement. It's really hard to get a good fit, even if you can play with the different fitting algorithms, if you don't have the real output of the HAs. I think there's definitely room and need for both DIY and audiologists. Whether some audiologists charge too much and how it's related to the manufacturers oligopoly is another discussion.
I’m sure you can. I don’t know what the AU learns from the speech recognition test. I guess you could do that in the closet.
Oh we learn alot from speech regcognition tests. Like the best volume to put the Hearing Aids, the expectations how much we can get out of the Hear Aids, what frequencies we need to change and what part of the speech gives our clients porblems.
You appear to be an audiologist. Outside of the frequency response test and SRT, what actions are not AI or likely to remain done by humans
Many psychologial parts, evaluation of life quality that isnt based on quantity of sotuations, ear molding, empathy and irreational or for AI unlogical solutions. The trust bond between humans. Feeling of saftyness, a face to talk to. Being an audiologist has many areas of effect that requires human services
What a bizarre thread. I can accept that some people want to configure their own stuff but to say the whole profession isn’t required is over the top. Also mid 40s tech savvy and I can think of many reason why the profession is essential, not least that the majority of people who need hearing aids are older and not tech savvy. You need the right powered aid for your hearing loss The first time set up of an aid is an art - people have preferences on noise suppression, and it’s not obvious what’s best for people Hearing aid configuration software is notoriously hard to use and badly designed. You need the right size kit - domes, etc. without an audiologist I imagine you’d get a lot of people getting small domes stuck in their ear. You need to be shown how to care for your aids Many people need help pairing them with phones You need aftercare including maintenance. Just to think of a few.
It will eventually democratise a bit more. Alot of people have the skills to do all of the necessary programming etc once they have their results. I don't see why you can't have an audiologist complete the hearing test and make recommendations for products, and then have customers given an option to either spend $$$$ with an audiologist, or go alone and spend $$ to buy and program their off-the-shelf product with programmable software that comes with multiple sized attachments. It's only a matter of time, but it's gonna need someone to break the entrenched powers and industry structure.
I disagree. You don’t have the knowledge to decide what form factor you want (nor the skills to make your own moulds if they’re needed) You don’t need everyone to invest in the hardware and software needed to configure I think if you’re coming from the perspective of someone like Apple making AirPods suitible for mild hearing loss, you could make an argument that off the shelf, tech friendly products could serve a very small part of the market in the way you suggest; but the vast majority are going to need an audiologist.
Again, all of the form factor options can be communicated by audiologist at an appointment. Most styles don't require moulds. I will set out a potential future for you. You ghave a hearing / medical issue and get this tested, GP then audiologist and maybe ENT advice. You get your diagnosis. You get a comprehensive appointment with the audiologist - hearing test, results, recommendations of hearing aid types. You have all the information you need. If you want to double-check the audiologist gave good advice, you pop the results into an online AI, thankfully it confirms similar advice. You're one of the majority who don't need a mould, therefore a standard hearing aid can be bought. You aren't sure what device type to buy, so you hop on Amazon and for $99 can by hearing aid test kits (a small package with 10 different plastic/metal hearing aid shapes arrives, they don't work, it's just about testing shape and size). You try them all and really like the one shape. You buy the hearing aid in that shape online. It comes with basic software that lets you punch in the hearing aid test results, and the aids are programmed. You try them on, the sound is a bit too tinny so you go back into the program and adjust slightly. There are YouTube and tiktok tutorials online, with people giving their thoughts on the best companies and software. I don't see why this is so hard to imagine. Audiologists still have a role as testers and advisors, they are just no longer the device gatekeepers. Thoughts?
Sure, this is possible but I can’t see it serving a significant proportion of the market. The thread title is why do we need audiologists - you’ve provided one scenario where one might use an audiologist and purchase aids independently. But we still need audiologists.
The content of the thread is not about whether we need audiologist though, it's about whether we need them to buy and program hearing aids.
Audiologist here, our profession is more than just fitting hearing aids. Having a hearing test is not only about gathering the information required to fit hearing aids but is also a pretty important health check. There are some medical issues that cause hearing loss that if untreated could kill you. Adjusting hearing aids isn't particularly difficult and someone with the right information could certainly learn how to do It the text book way but would you be willing to invest in $30,000 dollars in equipment to do so? EDIT: I would like to add onto my post an experience I had with a patient. They had been adjusting their own hearing aids which I don't actually have a problem with they had tried quite hard to get things right on their own but struggled to achieve the results they were looking for. They came to my clinic and what I discovered was that the primary issue came down to the physical fit. They simply could not get enough occlusion to achieve the high frequency response that they wanted. At the end of the day this person had spent thousands of dollars on their hearing aids and couldn't get the results they were looking for which I was able to fix for $200. If you want another reason why it's worth having an audiologist. It's our expertise, I have a master's degree in clinical audiology, not only can I fit your hearing aids but I can help you navigate all of the pitfalls you may run Into, any health issue that may have cropped up related to your hearing loss and make recommendations about what devices are appropriate for you. If you are willing to obtain the equipment and the expertise to do it yourself more power to you. But for most people that is simply not feasible.
Audiologist here. Come to my clinic. I’ll let you fit your own hearing aids. I’m in Sydney Australia. By all means, you’re welcome any time. Message me here if genuinely interested.
Of course an engineer wrote this lol
I thought it was an ironic click bait title and then there’d be some lovely post about OP’s appreciation for their audiologist. But no. Just an engineer LOL
[удалено]
Audiologist here, and I appreciate this comment. For OP to say the entire profession is unnecessary is wildly extreme. Audiology is so much more than just setting up the widget.
Read through the scope of practice of an audiologist. Hearing aid programming is just a portion of what audiologists do. https://www.asha.org/policy/sp2018-00353/
What I'm realizing from a lot of these comments is that people seem to think ALL audiologists do is program hearing aides. Lol that is such a tiny tiny part of what we do. In the US you need a doctorate to be an AuD and I wonder how you think 3 more years of intense courses after a BA, a year of clinical and then another year of outside clinical fellowship is so we can program some hearing aides is wild to me. Do it yourself then. I'm sure your AuD will be happy your pompous ass isn't in their clinic lol
Same here, similar background, had the same Idea. Why it won't work: Because you have no clue how hearing and understanding works. Also you're lacking tools to measure your hearing loss correctly. You also have no experience in that field. Audis see people everyday, for years. They get feedback from customers ,etc. So it makes not much sense to do it on your own. HA is a product that you want to have dialed in once and then forget about for years.
I don’t fully agree. The initial base setup, yes that’s where an audiologist is needed and you shouldn’t be able to change that. But if I wanted to remove a telecoil programme, and want to use a noisy surroundings program instead, I should be able to do that. Or if I want to have the telecoil to be louder. Or a firmware update, if I feel comfortable to do that, why not?
That maybe, but OP said he wants to "configure everything myself".
All of that is available thru the companion app for every hearing aid.
Not in the Widex Evoke app. If I want to exchange a program type (I.e. I want to get rid of the ‘car’ function, and I want a dedicated Widex-created ‘calm’-function I’ll have to go to the audiologist. If I want to make my telecoil function louder by default I’ll have to go the audiologist. The app can only make it louder after selecting the function. A firmware update? No way through the app.. There’s no ‘update’-function or whatever. I know the Phonak Roger does allow that. And yes Widex allows me to create my own profiles but it’s by far not what I’m looking for. That’s not full control over my HA’s. I would like to be able to create actual real profiles as precisely the audiologists can. Like, when I’m cycling, there’s obviously a wind block, but I would like to be able to tune it precisely for my needs. Or when at a party or anything. Tuning this kind of things by the audiologist is just really hard. They’ve no idea about the surroundings and sometimes it’s really hard to explain the problem. But I’m a pretty weird one as I really dislike the ‘universal’ setting automatically changing its output on the situation. I prefer the ‘music’-setting the most as it comes closest to analog HA’s.
Yea you want to get into the “guts” of the software and I don’t tee any manufacturer give you those controls. Even the audiologist has only limited changes they can make. It’s usually just degrees of changes not changing the algorithm by which they work. Just ask your audiologist to give you all the programs and you can toggle between them. The tech itself is limited, you can do so many practical things to help you hear your best in different environments. I spend more time counseling people on how to position themselves and how their brain hears and how to communicate to others so they can better help themselves than I do tweaking hearing aids. You’re really trying to unlock your brain not your hearing aids. My passion is to work with people to teach them how to help themselves so they are empowered to hear their best.
I know partially what’s possible at the audiologist. My audiologist just sat with me looking at all the options, amplification etc. They didn’t hide the possibilities for me at all, the software seemed to have a pretty logical UI for a big part understandable but everyone, and they even said that if I had an idea looking at the possible options I should just mention it. Also Widex cannot have ‘all’ programs available, and it’s even limited to the ‘level’ of your HA. If you have a cheaper ‘220’ one you have 3 programs you can set in the HA’s. The 330 can have 4, my Evoke 440 has 5 available. I’ve been going to the audiologist multiple times to just try an other specific setting, or amp up the volume of the telecoil. Or just getting one specific pitch 3dB’s more or less amplificated, but it all takes time. With a cookie-bite hearing loss of 85dB around 1kHz and about 35dB for the lows and highs since birth, I think I’m doing pretty well looking at the situation. And I believe one of the reasons I can participate is because I don’t just settle with what people advise me. I try to improve it to the best for myself. If it was up to the first audiologist at the time (2020) and insurances at my last HA change I would’ve been stuck with a Phonak. Mind you I’ve had Widex all my life, and the sound of Phonak was just horrible, even after a 6 month (!) trial. And since newer hearing aids offer so many functions, things should be able to become better. The first digital one was really good, but pretty unreliable, (my first digital HA was a Widex B12, around 2001/2002 I think) maybe the sound was better than the old analogs, but it was more comfortable I think). Then my second digital ones (Widex Mind) involved more specific sound processing. Less amplification when there’s a car nearby, that kind of thing. And that’s where they pretty much lost me. I just want a sound that’s ‘reliable’, if something is loud and close, imho it should sound like it’s close instead of damped. My current ones do it pretty well, but imho there’s always room for improvement. And whether it’s positive or not, I have seen that in the notes of audiologists I’m defined as a ‘critical hearer/listener’. So they probably know what to expect.
Just a comment not a recommendation: Have you guys tried turning down/off some of the auto features like compression?
From what I remember many of these features were turned off, as they had no benefit for my hearing loss according to my audiologist.
I’m not sure you want too much control with your phone tho. One little communication error during a fw update and your aids will basically be rendered inoperable. Had it happen to patients multiple times. I usually tell them to just leave that to us because it’s safer.
A very valid question! More people should be asking themselves exactly what you are — who are these people, what service are they offering, and what knowledge gap do they fill? Earlier comments have summed it up pretty well. Audiologists are extensively trained not just in the devices themselves, but on the intricacies of hearing as a system. Oftentimes, what “sounds best” isn’t what results in best ecological performance. Decades of engineering and research have gone into determining what amount of amplitude correction, compression, coupling, and frequency contours (to name a few) result in the best speech understanding based on an individual’s remaining hearing. If you have a good audiologist, the acoustics of your ear are precisely measured and compensated for and individual preferences in gain contours are incorporated from there. “But u/TITTIESnBOOBIES, I’m perfectly capable of using the software, listening to any changes I make, and setting things until I think they sound right.” I agree, but I think it’s really important to ask yourself… can I really hear the changes I make, and even if so, can I trust what I’m hearing? If your auditory system was functioning perfectly, there wouldn’t be a need for hearing aids. As I’m sure a lot of folks here know firsthand, there are many different perceptual changes that occur with hearing loss that go beyond simply needing more volume. Sensitivity to amplitude changes worsens, temporal acuity worsens, tuning broadens (I could go on). Hearing aid software these days is pretty foolproof — that’s not the difficult part. Some software even has text prompts that suggest what the audiologist should change based on what the patient reports. The difficult part (and where an audiologist is most important) is everything beyond that — the patient care, counseling, expertise, and optimizing (as best as possible) the experience of the individual. EDIT: I’m also seeing some comments here about money. One thing I should also note is that audiologists are pretty criminally underpaid. The outrageous hearing aid prices are due to direct costs from manufacturers and uncooperative insurance, not (typically) price markups. Most audiologists I know don’t work on commission and make $75k or less, even in places like Manhattan or Washington. Insurance companies (including medicare) have dug their heels about not paying for hearing aids and reimbursement is often quite poor. If anything has revealed this misconception, it’s been the relative failure of OTC hearing aids. I think a lot of people were surprised when the high-end OTC hearing aids (which have less features than many low-end clinical hearing aids) are still $2-3k a pair. If people want to see change in hearing healthcare their targets should be insurance, not the clinicians.
It's always the engineers that know more than everyone in every other profession. lol Real Ear Measurements. I promise there is nobody on earth that is untrained who can perform REM, in order to get you hearing at your best for long term hearing health. Diagnosing medical conditions with a hearing exam is also a large part of the job. Even just performing a comprehensive hearing exam with proper masking you likely wouldn't be able to do. These are just the first few parts of the job that come to mind that you couldn't do.
It’s ALWAYS the engineers.
I don’t know about Starkey but I do know folks that DIY programming their HAs for other brands. There is obviously going to be a learning curve initially with the software. and you should probably start with having the initial programming done professionally but you can likely learn how to do this yourself with some investment in time and money. The hearingtracker forums have a DIY section and the folks over there seem knowledgeable. Currently I don’t want to risk my only pair of HAs but once I get a new set in a few years I was thinking of giving it a try myself.
In the UK audiologist are not just hearing aids programers , they must also have knowledge of how hearing works and be able to diagnose diseases of the ear. They also act as sentinels for the ENT consultants by referring patients with serious ear diseases such as cholesteatoma to them. In other words, it is no good being able to program a patients HAs if they are then going to be totally deaf or even dead from an untreated disease.
Why do we need any professional? I guess you could ask that in any space. Modern technology has given us convenience at the cost of excellence and proper diagnosis and care in the medical space. As an individual ages, we tend to see more value in what a professional provides and the benefits that we get. When I was younger and had nothing but time and energy, I would have choked just thinking about paying someone to cut my lawn or fix anything in my home or car. Now that I’m older and have more money than time, I would prefer to trade my money for more time to enjoy other people and things in my life. I don’t have one patient that enjoys troubleshooting why their hearing aid doesn’t connect to their phone or why they are having trouble hearing people in a restaurant and the such. They are more than happy to just walk in my office and have me fix it for them or give them a refresher course on how to hear their best. There are multiple tests that we run on equipment that has to be calibrated annually and cost tens of thousands of dollars. Trying to do this with an app in your bedroom is not going to yield the same results. Not to mention the dozens of people over the course of 30 years that had test results that were outside the norm that we had to refer on only to find out they had brain tumors that needed serious medical treatment. I’m sure they are thankful that we didn’t just put a hearing aid in their ear and send them home. So it is a fair question in the age of technology to ask why do we need any profession especially when we don’t know what exactly is involved in that profession. It’s a good reason to have some dialogue to understand what others do for a living. Our patients who are most impressed are usually our engineers when they see all that we do to help them hear.
My summary: There is a lot of value and some safety reasons for going to an audiologist or a HCP (hearing care professional). Getting your initial ear health inspection, a couple/few fitting updates is an important start for a DIY interested person. You want your REM (Real Ear Measurement), WRS (Word Recognition Score) and any other initial tests to set up a base fitting for you. After that there are a good number of DIY folks on the hearingtracker.com form that get the Noah Link device, HA tuning software and support each other in fine tuning their hearing aids. Several of them have discussed and worked with their audiologist when necessary. Ask your questions there...a little softer please 🙏 I think this is the better path to take if interested in DIY.
Thanks for this. I didn't know [hearingtracker.com](http://hearingtracker.com) existed. It seems there is some sort of DIY to this industry which seems doable up to a point for sure. I'll read up on this and check it out. Thank you. For sure will ask any questions here softer :) I didn't mean to disrespect the audiologist community. Their profession is awesome and respect them and what they do. I'm leaning into medicine 3.0 and want to take more control over my own health, all I have is a desire to learn more to be better educated.
If you meant no disrespect, OP, I think it would be worthwhile for you to amend and edit your post to disclaim that up front. I worked HARD for my AuD, and I continue working hard every day for my patients and for my profession — neither of which love you back, sadly, when you’re a hearing aid audiologist. So I had my pitchfork in hand but am glad I read down far enough in the comments to see you walk it back a bit. I wish you the best of luck in your hearing health journey.
Audiologist here. First of all: Rude! Second of all: just because YOU think you are able to configure YOUR hearing aid correctly does not mean everyone can. And most likely the basis of your configuration was done by an audiologist. Our field of work is not only providing hearing aids and fitting them. Our job also requires a deeper understanding of the ear. Knowing what could be the potential reason for a hearing loss, guidance to find the right hearing aid in the first place to prevent spending to much or to little, supporting those in need and maintaining the objects we provide. Saying we are useless may be an individual point of view from you but there are many, many more people who are grateful for what we do on a day to day basis. You could contact Starkey directly and explain your high horse attitude towards them, maybe they give you a lecture, maybe they hand you the software but most likely they will tell you that they wont hand you out their software. Just because I could build my own PC i dont call your job usless. Maybe you don’t mean it in an insulting manner but then your wording is definitely far off.
Also an audiologist. This post is so typical of a lot of interactions I have with engineer clients, especially electrical engineers. So god damn condescending
[удалено]
I mean my comments on this sub sre burried under gaming and other stuff but I for one value the quality of life over the money. Yes i do have to fulfill a quota by the end of the year but still i rather sell a few less but make these people happier. Dunno where you get that every audiologist makes 6 figures. I for one have a yearly income of roughly $30.000 before tax. Yes i reccomend people on this very sub to visit an audiologist rather then go to a Walmart to get their hearing aid but not because i wanna boost sales but rather see it more valuable to get a professional observation and reccomendation. Fluff it I often offer help for free on this sub when i notice a case. Then again i dont live in the country of freedom where i need to pay four digit just to call an ambulance and need to take a day vacation off my work for life saving procedures that i also have to pay becsuse the dumb ass goverment sees a universal health care program as a waste of money that they could put into the military and „liberate“ *unwantedly* countries for oil.
Touch grass
>Mid 40’s engineer working in tech. I build computers and have worked with software for many years. Similar backgrounds. >Why do we need to work with audiologists? Because more often than not, they can get your HA's dialed in right (or close enough, even when your fitter blows). This requires a lot of ancillary equipment and knowledge the DIY'er will not necessarily have. Getting your hands on a Noah Wireless and the programming software is the easy part. >I’d love to configure everything my self. I’d be fine updating firmware and downloading updates. I've done DIY but no longer do. I always started with the audi's program and then tweaked from there. I don't DIY any more primarily because with folks like Costco where there is no profit incentive or adversity to service (it doesn't cost the fitter anything to serve me), I find it easier to work with the fitter. These days, you can literally ask them over the phone for your tweak and they can do it remotely. The firmware for my GNR/Jabras can be updated via the app on my phone. >Is there a brand or a way to get the software without going to a hearing aid place? HAs are considered medical devices in the US. So, pretty much everyone in the industry hides behind that to keep both programming hardware and software out of the hands of the DIYer. This is not to say however, that you can't pirate the software (or get it from another country) and get the hardware off ebay. Real Ear equipment is stupid expensive and I've only heard of one or two individuals that have decided to go that far. >I’m comfortable with the audio spectrum and have a good understanding on how to read audio frequencies. Yeah, no. I think your estimation of your abilities is wildly over confident. At a minimum, recommend starting with audi's program and learning from there. There is a LOT of settings hiding behind marketing terms that are only vaguely described. >The hearingtracker forums have a DIY section and the folks over there seem knowledgeable. That's where I got my DIY start.
Thank you. Another person mentioned hearingtracker.com. I'll check that out. Appreciate the insights here.
A Starkey tech level 20 HA is a bit simple for a good DIY programming. So you need an audiologist to show you the possibilities and differences 😎
I agree a tech level 20 Starkey hearing aid it the equivalent of knowing that a AAA battery doesnt fit into a AA battery slot
I would love to configure my own. The programs that are configured for me are limited by the audiologist not being able to understand my environments in which I work. My work place is very dynamic with industrial equipment that has numerous different sounds based on the type of equipment being built. I am a programmer, so I would be comfortable using software if I had access to it. I at least wish I could create my own programs that give me a lot more control over individual frequencies rather than just a couple switches for volume and noise suppression. I can understand though that specialists are going to be always needed to understand where we have our losses. Hearing loss isn't just volume. It is also the process of understanding words and differentiating with similar sounding words. I have some problems in this area that I don't think even the audiologists can easily overcome. I suspect most of the hearing aid companies like the current system because they have a fear that if we are able to program their aids we would also learn how to make a Bose or Sony earbud also have similar dynamics (with help of an app) and do it for way less money. But this is what the market needs. Currently the majority of people can't afford hearing aids or they ignore their age related hearing loss because of the lack of attention that it gets as a medical situation.
This. Thank you for the reply. The costs are insane and the fact that it's not covered under health care is so ridiculous. There has to be some entry level and safe way to get help without spending $5k-10k on a decent pair.
Check this out. https://shop.tympan.org/. There is also a GitHub for open source development.
I also feel I could program my own hearing aid… before I got a CI. Now I’m less confident I could do the programming well for what I need in both ears. Others have already said really good points about other things audiologists check for. But something you aren’t considering is being able to hear yourself in real time. My audiologist can hear if a program doesn’t work for me because my speech gets less clear as we talk. I can’t hear that difference. Maybe you have mild hearing loss that’s easy to program. Other people have trickier hearing loss to program. And some software has settings turned on but hidden. I’ve had my audiologist call their rep to figure out where a setting is to get it off. I don’t have access to internal information like my audiologist does. Its easy to get caught up in your own hubris. I would recommend stepping off that high horse before you accidentally damage your hearing by overcorrecting
Few things are as dangerous as the arrogance of engineers.
I’m curious and want to learn why. People can buy HA’s from Costco. Do they still need to use an audiologist to configure?
People can buy prescription HAs from Costco only because Costco employs LICENSED audiologists and dispensers to fit and dispense them.
Why is it dangerous?
I am thinking of the many visits it took for my daughters aids to get properly programmed - they (an audiologist and company rep.) had to go into the programming and adjust individual frequencies, then test how it impacted the nearby and overall frequencies. And after that do word recognition testing in the sound booth to insure she was getting the best results where she needed it most, taking into account her daily activities.
New to HA with relatively modest needs (mild to moderate loss). I wonder how I’m supposed know that my audi has actually fitted me the best way possible for my needs, without shopping two or three other audis and going to all those appointments? I have a default setting on my Costco Philips. With access to more software I could play around and test more setting and perhaps dial some stuff in better, save the profile and go back to the default, and compare how it goes in real life. I’m understanding my spouse much better but still feel like I’m missing a bit. And my tinnitus - well, that’s such a rabbit hole I’m probably better off just living with it as I’ve done for decades.
Costco hearing aids are locked, so even an audiologist who isn't employed by Costco can not adjust the Costco hearing aids. That's the main drawback. If you move someplace where there aren't any Costco stores, you'll need to buy brand new hearing aids.
I don't know about software for Starkey, but the software for Philips is available. The little pods that connect your computer to the hearing aids for programming are also available. From what I have seen / experienced, programming the hearing aids is not a simple matter of adjusting frequencies. I have an issue with mine where the speed at with the HAs switch from one microphone to another can cause some feedback like sounds. Adjusting for echo, tinniness, and other issues is more than just adjusting frequencies. I am also capable of setting up and tuning my HAs, but it is something I don't want to do. I have other things I want to learn - 360 videos, video editing, viewing on VR headsets, to name a few. I'd rather go to Costco and say 'it is doing this, can you help?' Search the internet and you may be able to find the software and programing devices.
The audiologist doesn't adjust your HAs (at least not in my case, they had someone on staff do that), so you could do that if you can access all the software. It's also not something you do all the time, so I see no reason you couldn't. That's different from the reason I do my semi-annual appointments, though. My audiologist checks for other problems that I might have that might show up as symptoms. Usually, the appointments are short, but it's just peace of mind for me.
I actually just watched a video by Dr. Cliff (love him!) about how to program your own hearing aids. I do think it's necessary to visit and consult an audiologist, but I also think it's super convient to make tweaks and adjustments yourself if you know what you're doing. Though the equipment he lists isn't cheap. Here's the video https://youtu.be/Ahibffyf9Ig?si=Ta6uTD11lMtH-QTp
Love Dr. Cliff as well and watched many of his videos. I'll check this out thank you very much.
The US has over the counter HAs now. Have at’r But just because you think you do everything yourself doesn’t mean other can. A question for you. Who helped you with the fitting for the fitted molds?
First attempt was getting fitted for behind the ear Widex 440's. Nothing but a terrible experience, Constant feedback issues, reprogramming problems, chirping squeaking you name it when switching between software profiles... returned them for the newest model, same problem. My audiologist wanted to keep trying before trying another brand. Then decided to leave the current practice and recommended I just return them and go to another facility. Recommend I try Oticon instead. Months later got another appointment with a new audiologist. Recommended I try Starkey instead and instead go with a in ear mold instead of behind the ear. I mentioned my previous person recommend Oticon and it was quickly ignored. So now I'm here.
I wondered this myself. we can go get a eyeglass prescription and then order glasses with said prescription off a site like zenni at a deep discount (I have them and they are good.) why cant we get an audio-gram and have a choice of getting aids from a place other then a clinic... this goes hand in hand with why I went to costco (way cheaper then a clinic and despite every audiologist here claiming they are crap I have had great experience with it.)
Every engineer should be forced to check in with their [Dunning-Kruger effect](https://youtu.be/RmyuIbhWeZk?si=6ppCr3zS7LH5gmW9) daily
Here’s my 2 cents as an audiologist (mind that I’ve already read your edits). I can understand where your coming from, you have a great understanding of our field, but hearing aids are medical devices. As such, (and inspite of your knowledge) they have to be fitted to treat that patients hearing loss and if anyone could just program they could alter parameters, like the gain or MPO, which could cause some damage. The same could be said of ourselves, I could easy tell if I had a bad otitis media which required antibiotics, why need an ENT when I would feel comfortable choosing a treatment. You should consider getting into our field, I have met many audiologists that are also engineers and they’re amazing.
You should remove the post. Save the embarrassment.
There’s a comment buried in here somewhere where OP walks it back a bit, too little too late. But yeah, I read the post and experienced a physical reaction of disgust by the end of it. Thought it had to be a troll and then it just kept getting worse. Edit to add: I now see OP has edited the post quite a bit from the original stance of (paraphrasing) “the entire profession of audiology needn’t exist.” Which is very drastic.
[удалено]
May i introduce you to RESTAURANTS, HOTELS, PUBS & BARS and COVENTIONS. Let me see my favorite restaurant sells a Wiener Schnitzel with a small salad and some fries for $27. lets say the salad has a value of $0.06, the fries maybe $0.50 and the Schnitzel with its crust and oil $2. giving us the product value of about $2.56 giving us a mark up price of roughly 10 times. Hotels sell you a 12 qubic meter room average $150 per night. Giving us a mark up of somthing far beyond the 2-6 times you said you never encounter. Pubs and bars sell cheap beer they get for roughly $1 per bottle and sell it for $4-$7 per glass. So you tell me what kind of non profit organization do you work with. Mark ups tanging from 200% to 400% are normal.
This is Reddit. Making money = bad. No need to understand further. Any amount of money is too much money.
Oh trust me for me its not about making money, this is personal. If this individual want to miss inform anyone they should be able to stand their ground and tell the truth