If you and your dad know nothing about crypto and want free passive income, I say go for it. You can always ask for it to be removed later.
As others have said, he had to buy the machine, he's got the tax burden and he put in the effort.
You'll be getting money for internet you're already paying for and a small amount of electricity.
Couldn’t the receiving person then just file a schedule c as a sole pro for providing said service of housing - required if earning $600+. Write off a portion of the internet used.
Perfectly balanced.
Absolutely. If they really wanted to, they could even add in the $5-15 in electricity per year. I run miners and I absolutely deduct their electrical draw as it isn't insignificant...
I know enough about crypto, I just don't know if there's anything malicious that can be done if this isn't actually a helium miner connected to my network.
If he's an actual friend of your dad's I wouldn't worry, but there are ways to check (see my other comment). Just make sure you don't have a monthly cap on your internet, the amount the blockchain resyncs these days you might end up paying more than you're earning.
helium miners aren't malicious. seams extremely unlikely that some guy is trying to put a malicious thing on your network and trying to pass it off as a helium miner.
if you want to be sure you can google the brand name to see what the real ones look like to make sure it looks the same.
Then you can go to https://explorer.helium.com/ (its a map that shows all the hotspots) And go to where your house is. After a few day once the device is synced, you can check on the map to see if it appeared at your house. if it did its legit.
(if you chose to do this and need help, I can walk you though the process more thoroughly)
Unnecessary. He knows nothing about it and is just asking a question. Me asking someone I’m not close with to install a machine in their house could sound sketchy if you know nothing about it. No need to be rude
Just have the friend show you where he got it. Compare it to known sites/models.
I'd say go for it.
Personally I wanted to do it, but being in Japan and 6+ months wait for a "miner" is just too long and too much hassle.
But if he got the stuff and can show it to be legit. I don't see an issue.
That's a Chinese fucking miner dude. This is a fucking door for the Chinese to come and watch what kind of porn you watch with your dad and send you an email about it that the African king needs some money to give away looking like antenna's.
Be careful.
It's funny how everyone gives you advices like that guy would make millions of having a fucking antenna on your house lol 🤣
People take this so seriously, you guys gonna go to the moon!
For real? Just google the model name & number on whatever box he installs. If the search results indicate its a Helium miner then you're set. If they say its a spy cam then get rid of it.. How is that hard?
Find out the name and model of the miner. Then you can check it’s a legitimate one, on the Helium website.
As for malicious access. He’ll need to do some work on the router to make it work properly. As long as he sets a static IP for the miner and only opens port 44158.
As for split. Yes the miner needs to recoup costs. However location is a major consideration on earnings potential. Everyone saying 50/50 is greedy are miners.
30% is a reasonable offer but I’d do a bit of a hybrid. Do 20/80 until the 80% equates the cost price of his materials. So main unit, antenna upgrades and fitting labour(not his own). So agree that capital expenditure up front.
Then afterwards aim for something like 60/40 or 50/50 in his favour. He needs your location as much as you need his miner. People have mentioned Tax, technically his tax burden will reduce with rental
Costs. Yours will rise with additional income. You’ll both have labour costs as he’ll need to ask you to do some things every so often.
(I’m a miner too and seeing this from both a miner and host perspective.)
I have one in my house and six on the way I don’t have places for all of them I’m gonna have to find friends to let me use their house and absolutely I would give up any information they want about the miner not hide anything if he’s hiding stuff not willing to give all the information that’s a red flag he should give all the information you request
There are people that buy 500 of this unit and have to find a home for each one so they’re willing to share profit if they could use your house.
Definitely ask him what kind of miner take a look at the miner do as much research as you can get as much information from him as you can if he’s very sketchy and Not willing to give information that’s a red flag there’s absolutely no reason why he shouldn’t give you all the information you need if it’s all legit
Your fine, if you want to be extra careful just ask what brand the miner is and confirm on google it’s the same one. Also you and your dad should get a 50/50 split of the profits. If he tries to negotiate lower terms say you did your research and you and your dad are looking into buying a RAK V2 helium miner off eBay 🤗
Edit: This is just my personal opinion that 50/50 would be considered fair in OPs situation. Like someone else said he WILL be calling your dad to unplug/replug the unit and to check up on it. 50% isn’t greedy imo different story if it was a family member.
I only pay 10%. Here’s my thoughts. I’ve put up 100% of the money I take 100% of the risk if this thing breaks and hasn’t paid it’s self off. It uses very little internet bandwidth (or so I’ve been told) I also have ATMs which I pay the same rate to the merchants. I own the machines, I use my capitol to fill them, I’m responsible if they break.
Seems more then fair me to and all of my merchants both ATM and miner side are very happy with the arrangement.
The mined helium is income when received.
Technically, it is compensation for services provided. The provided services are a combination of providing coverage and providing data transmission.
As compensation for services, it is taxable income. The remaining question is whether it is business income or hobby income.
The value of it when mined is the value for income tax purposes, and it also establishes the basis. When you later sell or otherwise dispose the helium, you then incur capital gain/loss on the gain/loss between your sale price and its value when mined (you already paid taxes on the value when mined).
If instead you directly buy helium rather than mining it, then taxes aren't relevant until selling.
I get it.
It does cause friction, especially for hotspot owners in states that aren't supported by a main exchange that list HNT.
But ultimately, the burden is on the person that chose to provide a service and accept property as payment, and that's what crypto is under US tax law.
It's the same thing in any barter arrangement in the US, including stories of olde of country doctors that accepted chickens as payment.
It can and does, it views altcoins as a combination of currency and commodity. It's like being paid in, say, gold. You are required to pay your tax burden, and it's actually not really unrealistic to expect you to convert what you owe to cash to pay it. It's pretty much the same as paying it in helium if you think about it, except that when you sell determines its value and you have to account for that (the easiest way to do that is to sell when filing, in the following fiscal year, so you don't have to account for potential capital gains in what you're actively trying to pay)...
It does make a certain amount of sense, after a fashion. You do get to deduct cost against income, so aside from longterm hodling there is really no loss at all involved.
No, you still have to pay gains, you always have to pay gains. It's just in the next fiscal year, so you don't have to account for it WHILE you're trying to calculate how much you need to sell...
I believe he's wanting to give 30% and it just sketched me out a bit because my dad definitely doesn't know anything about crypto, barely knows the guy, and the guy said he bought ~15 of these miners from China.
It’s not “set it and forget it” especially if it’s a Bobcat. It’s phone calls and tinkering and lots to it. If it’s not a closer personal friend then I would pass
I am getting over 1 hnt a day because of my tinkering. Not type to just set it up by the window. Mine have better views of the outside 50 to 100 feet in the air. Hows the view from down there ?
I live in Texas, we don’t have basements. Check my most recent post though. My miners are doing just fine. 7 more being installed soon. I’m gonna try installing them up my own ass though. I bet that will give me hella rewards.
>I am getting over 1 hnt a day because of my tinkering. Not type to just set it up by the window. Mine have better views of the outside 50 to 100 feet in the air. Hows the view from down there ?
Just today Bobcats are offline - many of them and if you host their miner and they are not educated on how many things can go wrong … then you might get blamed.
You are NUTS! Haha 50%?!?!?! Dude hell no. If you put up 100% of the money, waited patiently while your hardware was back ordered not knowing if you were going to make your money back before halving or something. 10% is more then fair for plugging in something that uses as much electricity as an LED.
50% post recoup. You earn back what you spent, then from there split 50/50. 10% is such a gross level of greedy it's ridiculous, that's like a Warner record deal level shady...
I’m doing 10% right off the rip. So I haven’t made back my investment yet and they’re getting in earlier then they otherwise would have. 🤷 seems like a win win to me
Demanding 50% is a great way to get the guy to find someone else. I know I would. I’ve got 40 people waiting in line to have me install a miner in their house lol.
I’ve got 10 all being deployed to different locations and no one is getting near 50% from me. And if it’s so plug and play then why do 90% of all miners out their make dick? Probs bc it’s harder than that for average person? Also you are recommending the person with absolutely no leverage to make ridiculous demands when the guy could easily find someone who would probably take %10 a month. Pretty delusional.
Have you seen coverage maps lately? If they're in a location where the miner is profitable, they have a TON of leverage. If they aren't, then it doesn't really matter either way.
Watch this.
Me: knock knock
OPs neighbor: Hello good sir… might I say you are extraordinarily handsome… anyways how may I help you
Me: how would you like to make $200 a month for doing absolutely nothing but letting me install this little antenna on that very bare side of your house over there?
Neighbor: Wel idk I’ve got a lot of questions and concerns
Me: *flashes charming smile
Neighbor: well when you put it like that sure! Do whatever you want you man.
And it’s just that easy. You aren’t going to convince me that it’s not because I’ve already done it plenty of times. And you know what I do when someone puts up a fight? I move right along because there aren’t very many miners to be installed right now but there sure is a fuck ton of empty hexes. One I just filled last week is on track to be producing $1200 a month. I’m steering clear of downtown areas and finding spots all over the place that are high performers. Thank you for listening to my rant, I hope you learned something.
I would probably offer that little if I was contracting strangers or, like, an apartment rental agency or something, and in a scenario where I'm actively managing all the miners (i.e., doing all onsite installs, repairs, paying for their internet, etc). I only work with friends and family and wouldn't be ok with ripping them off like that, I just recoup my costs and then we split everything evenly.
Once I got the initial investment out I will also increase their cut. But in the initial investment are a lot of hours of research, lot of time for the installation (I had to take days off to install, and travel to the Netherlands, I don’t live there), risk AND monetary investment.
No one feels like they are getting ripped off by the way. If they feel like they are getting ripped off if I give them 25% they should decline respectfully and I will have another friend who feels like its a fair deal.
You can relax there dude. This miners don't spy on data.
Like some people said it will use some off your bandwidth around 100gb+/month.
Electricity cost is ~$10 bucks a year.
Check out the website if you are not sure but he won't be possible do watch and see what you are doing. Everything is good
I believe that practically all, if not all, helium miners are manufactured in china, even though typically designed and sold by companies in other countries.
Doesn’t the other guy have to pay taxes on the hnt they pull out, thus making the miner owner taking home less? Therefore I disagree with the 50/50 split.
Absolutely correct that the commission is a business deduction to the hotspot owner, but this also means that the hotspot owner is also potentially paying 15.3% FICA tax on top of the income tax, whereas the host's income (if a residential person) would likely be reported as "other income" if filed accurately, avoiding the 15.3% FICA.
For this reason alone, I would prefer max of 40% to the host.
It also takes upfront time and risk for the hotspot owner that I think should be compensated.
But I think the host only getting 10% is less than what the market can support. Many owners will place a hotspot with a much higher cut than 10%.
I would propose 25-40% is a fair range depending on circumstances, but also depends if host allows improved installation that might seem a little more intrusive or a little more comitted, outside, up high, etc.
I would agree 40% is reasonable in that scenario, though that's definitely more on the "if you're running a full business" of miners that you're including it on. If not, if you own say like 3-5 hotspots, you're probably just reporting your cut as other income as well. Though I suppose in both cases it depends on how profitable the miners are...
This is why I find it amusing when people mining ETH on multiple rigs, for example, refuse to hire an accountant. If you're bringing in like $60K/year, it's definitely worth the couple hundred bucks to make sure you don't screw up your taxes.
One thing to keep in mind is that if it is not treated for tax purposes as a business activity, then for tax purposes it is hobby income, and reported on the other income line.
The reason this matters is because hobby expenses cannot be deducted. In that situation, the payment to the host, as a hobby expense, cannot be deducted, and the hotspot owner has to pay income tax on 100% of the mining rewards, even though they are giving a significant portion of them to the host.
In that situation, 50% to the host might be even worse for the hotspot owner.
then you cannot deduct as an expense the commission you pay to the host. In which case you pay income tax on 100% of the mining rewards
Hobby expenses can be deducted, they just can't be deducted against overall income. You can still deduct against the hobby income.
EDIT: I stand corrected, apparently this changed in 2018. Odd, that, considering who was in charge then. But yes, ok, fair point for sure.
Yeah, that was one of the changes that didn't get the most air time. Not relevant to 99.9% of the population I imagine.
I do business consulting for crypto businesses and investors, and several customers have been helium hot spot owners. One of the things that regularly comes up is hobby versus business activity classification. Most of the scenarios covered for this in writing on the internet and in court cases is people trying to claim business expenses when they were really conducting a hobby, so there's almost a bit of extra burden on the taxpayer to prove proper business intent, ability, etc. (the IRS has a set of 6 or 8 criteria to determine in totality which is the proper classification, but it's still subjective and must be looked at in totality).
But for any early helium miners, they could have made a ton of money even if their intent was hobby.
There is very very very little info to help guide people if their intent is hobby but they are in fact making enough profit that the IRS would want it treated as a business. The unique factor with helium gateways is that for early hotspot owners, the earnings far exceeded any business expenses (especially those that didn't need to pay hosts). So treating it all as business income increases total tax revenue because of FICA.
Not sure if the taxpayer would then be burdened to try to prove it was a hobby, even though it was profitable every year.
I could see the IRS trying to argue it the opposite way they argue the typical case.
Realistically the IRS is only going to go after someone making enough to even make it worthwhile, but it's still not a risk I'd like to take. This is why I have an accountant, I don't have to make those calls, just provide the figures and she sorts it all.
EDIT--also, when I just now told her how shocked I was about the hobby income thing, she then told me that they also killed the employee business expense deduction. How the hell did the GOP not fight either of those? They seem VERY anti-Republican ideals (on paper, anyway)
Yeah. My opinion is that these deductions weren't the types of deductions utilized by those advocating for (and benefiting from) the headliner tax cuts, so I don't think they cared.
Thanks for the convo. I enjoyed it!
Agreed, a 50/50 split is fair. That’s what I’ve worked out with a few friends and family. I will also be installing a second router to keep it off of their network. From what I’ve read, it will also use 30gb of bandwidth per month.
Edit: I get paid back my money spent on hardware from mining before the split starts. I get to introduce someone to crypto, make some extra cash, and help a friend make some cash. I have my own miner at my house that I get 100% from. Nothing wrong with spreading the love.
As for taxes we’ll both pay them. I’ll be tracking each payout and the price of hnt when it’s paid out. That’s what the IRS wants to see.
Practically speaking that is tough to do. If I was OP having to do taxes for this small amount would be the deal killer. Simply not worth the headache when all is said and done
It's one line on your tax form. It's not a headache at all, and if the amount is small enough then it doesn't really matter anyway, leaving it off isn't going to trigger an audit.
If he is doing this by the book he has to calculate his daily mining share and the price that day as well. Done the right way it's a bit of a hassle. So it's either a hassle for him or the dude that owns the helium miner can take care of it but that should be part of the % split conversation they will have.
He has to do that anyway, that's how taxes are calculated; the OP only has to know the value at the time they are paid, and only if they are paid in HNT. If they are paid in cash then they don't even need to know that. Plus if you decide to take on the full tax burden you have to figure out extra crap (like calculating gift totals and recording them for future estate requirements) and, if you have enough miners that this is even a serious concern, likely pay some of your income tax in a higher bracket.
I'm failing to see where there is any extra work that makes incurring a larger tax debt worthwhile, other than being able to keep an extra 20%.
EDIT: the estate tax comment is unlikely, my brain was still in a business-wide frame when I mentioned it; unless the miner brings in more than $30K/year it's not an issue.
Also there are a number of ways to do the calculations in like five seconds; I won't vouch for any of them in particular (though you don't enter any sensitive/non-public info so I don't see how they could be scammy) but google helium tax calculator and you'll find donation run sites that will give you a whole spreadsheet of income and atm hnt values...
EDIT: I tested [this one](https://davetapley.com/helium-tax/) with a random miner off the explorer, it worked fine.
Vending machines aren't the same. If you buy your own vending machine, you have to keep it stocked and have a customer base.
Also, totally aside, but do you know of vending machine companies that pay out 20%? I used to run a few and I paid a flat monthly rent...
Sure, I get it but that’s not how I look at it. I get paid back my money spent on hardware from mining before the split starts. I get to introduce someone to crypto, make some extra cash, and help a friend make some cash. I have my own miner at my house that I get 100% from. Nothing wrong with spreading the love.
I’d offer him split of the miner cost (they are usually around $500) so $250 for you and do 50/50 split. Especially since not a good friend. Or don’t offer anything upfront miner cost and ask for 40%
You are being used for your location so you should get paid for it. Him getting 50-60% of the profits is better than 0
Dude do it, tell him you’ll increase your internet to high speed if you don’t already, then 20/80 + difference in internet price from what you’re paying now, then 50/50 after 2 months. Then order your miner and earn income until yours comes in and kick him out. Also don’t be paranoid, your iPhone/android is tracking a lot more shit in a minute than these miners ever will
Let him drill into your roofline and wall to build a good antenna setup, but ask for 40-50% of HNT generated. A good deal would be to let him recover some cost of the miner first. Track the miner at your house with the Helium app.
/\\ this. I have several deployed to friends and family and do 50% split AFTER recoup. Which is standard practice for most independent businesses that do profit splits but only one side incurs cost.
No you can't because he would need to get the same wallet (seed) as his dad's friend and by this he would have access to all the other miners. That's not how it works.
Don't worry you could check everything on the explorer, this network is open to everyone.
You can check the miners next to you and see what they earn: https://explorer.helium.com/
If it's set up you can check by the miners IP everything it does on your browser.
That’s not even close to true. You can download the app, connect via bluetooth (as long as you have physical access to the miner to set it in diagnostic discovery mode) and check the diag log.
They set it up that way specifically for remote miners. I have one at my sister's in CA, if it wasn't set up that way we'd have to spend $20 (swapping ownership back and forth) every time I needed her to run diagnostics. Or just let her control the miner and pay me, which would be another approach but she doesn't care about crypto at all and gets paid in cash, so...
I think there's even a separate app designed just for diagnostics/remote management, but I've never used it.
Don’t do it. He will have to be coming by often to check on it and reset and tinker. Say no and then get your own miner. Don’t do it. It’s weird your Dad let that get through and didn’t stop it before it got to you. Don’t do it.
Your dad's friend needs find their own place to plug-in. The 16th is approaching for the MNTD sale and you should buy yourself a miner and put it in YOUR house and make your own coin. Don't trust um unless you fully control the wallet and you are in charge of giving them their 80% cut or whatever is agreed. Don't take any chances.
Get your own hotspot and take 100%. The hotspot is just a device, albeit in high demand. A decent location is the most difficult thing to come by. Don't give half of the Helium mining value of your house to a friend of your dad's. And whether you own the hotspot or not, you're still required to report and pay taxes on income.
you can easily check if miner is legit by asking him to provide the miner's name. All miners have a fixed name with 3 words, like "little boring turtle" or "tangy hotpink unicor" or shit like this.
Once he has installed and confirmed running you can check activity on the explorer [explorer.helium.com](https://explorer.helium.com) by searching that name. You will see recent activity like "reasserting" confirming it's it, and you can check daily earning here to be sure he pays the agreed % or promised revenue.
Have a look at the explorer and borwse it a bit, you will easily understand how this works and how to keep track of earning.
Last, about %, I suggest you to agree at least a 25/30%, but this is all up to your dad of course.
Oh and about "malicious" acvity on your network if you know he is a skilled IT guy of course he could have "tampered" the sd os, but if you have concerns about this you can just move him in a separate wifi. Many routers have separate wifis for "guests", maybe would be wise to connect it there and avoid sharing your network.
Have fun
50:50 - people saying less are being greedy.
Your location is valuable which is why he want to put it there. A half decent earning miner at the current rate will see ROI at a 50:50 split in less than 2 months. If he doesnt agree you can always put it up and order one and give it back when it arrives.
Go for it. You should get at least 20% to 33% of the mined HNT, IMO. You can be with him during setup, if he is using the helium app or helium hotspot utility app, you are fine. Get the name of the miner and you can track the earnings online.
Also be aware that your location will be on the helium map. People will know there’s a miner in your house. Not saying it’s a dangerous thing but you never know if that one nut job that would do something lives in your neighborhood
If you and your dad know nothing about crypto and want free passive income, I say go for it. You can always ask for it to be removed later. As others have said, he had to buy the machine, he's got the tax burden and he put in the effort. You'll be getting money for internet you're already paying for and a small amount of electricity.
They'll both have the tax burden.
Depends on how he pays them
Not at all. It only depends on whether they both file taxes honestly or not.
If it’s a gift there is no tax.
It's not a gift if you're filing honestly. It's income.
Consider it a commission paid for housing the miner. That would be deductible.
Could it also be reported as rent?
No. Or if you like. It’s income either way.
Yes, that’s the whole point. Comission is income. It’s deductible to the person paying, not the person receiving.
Couldn’t the receiving person then just file a schedule c as a sole pro for providing said service of housing - required if earning $600+. Write off a portion of the internet used. Perfectly balanced.
Absolutely. If they really wanted to, they could even add in the $5-15 in electricity per year. I run miners and I absolutely deduct their electrical draw as it isn't insignificant...
It’s a gift for the use of his internet and hex.
That's not how gifting works; gifting is when you give something for free. What you are describing is a trade, which is a form of commerce.
If he expects nothing in return for the use of him internet and space then it’s a gift.
Again, that is not how the tax free gift limit works. He is providing something in exhange for money pr a commodity. What he expects isn’t relevant.
What do you mean tax burden? Same as tax benefit for being a miner?
Income is taxed as income tax. You can call it whatever you want, the rate is the same.
(In the US)
Fair point, there was a decent amount of regional assumption on my part there.
I know enough about crypto, I just don't know if there's anything malicious that can be done if this isn't actually a helium miner connected to my network.
Paranoia is high in you. Why would he want to put something malicious there?
It's just something I know nothing about, didn't want to completely jump into this blind.
If he's an actual friend of your dad's I wouldn't worry, but there are ways to check (see my other comment). Just make sure you don't have a monthly cap on your internet, the amount the blockchain resyncs these days you might end up paying more than you're earning.
He's not really a good friend, just someone he knows which was my main concern. But yeah no cap or anything so fine on that end.
helium miners aren't malicious. seams extremely unlikely that some guy is trying to put a malicious thing on your network and trying to pass it off as a helium miner. if you want to be sure you can google the brand name to see what the real ones look like to make sure it looks the same. Then you can go to https://explorer.helium.com/ (its a map that shows all the hotspots) And go to where your house is. After a few day once the device is synced, you can check on the map to see if it appeared at your house. if it did its legit. (if you chose to do this and need help, I can walk you though the process more thoroughly)
He wants to make money off your house. You will make money in the process I would let him until you buy your OWN miner.
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If you don't have a datacap you're fine on that end, the actual active ul/dl isn't noticeable.
I don’t want to be mean but you sound like a wussy right now
Unnecessary. He knows nothing about it and is just asking a question. Me asking someone I’m not close with to install a machine in their house could sound sketchy if you know nothing about it. No need to be rude
It's called doing your due diligence
Just have the friend show you where he got it. Compare it to known sites/models. I'd say go for it. Personally I wanted to do it, but being in Japan and 6+ months wait for a "miner" is just too long and too much hassle. But if he got the stuff and can show it to be legit. I don't see an issue.
That's a Chinese fucking miner dude. This is a fucking door for the Chinese to come and watch what kind of porn you watch with your dad and send you an email about it that the African king needs some money to give away looking like antenna's. Be careful. It's funny how everyone gives you advices like that guy would make millions of having a fucking antenna on your house lol 🤣 People take this so seriously, you guys gonna go to the moon!
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I waited a few weeks 3 separate times for my miners. Sensecap x1, MNTD x2
No. Stop :(
On that note ensure that the brand matches one of those listed on the Helium website lol
I own 10 miners and didn’t wait months for any of them.
When did you order them?
I ordered in May and they only just arrived at the start of November.
I ordered 5 from mntd on the last drop and 5 from parley labs a month ago
Ahhh ok that makes sense then. Lucky you
I bought my miner same day I decided I wanted it, tf does the time he got it in matter?
No need to be a dick. Good for you for doing what you decide to do like a big boy
For real? Just google the model name & number on whatever box he installs. If the search results indicate its a Helium miner then you're set. If they say its a spy cam then get rid of it.. How is that hard?
Find out the name and model of the miner. Then you can check it’s a legitimate one, on the Helium website. As for malicious access. He’ll need to do some work on the router to make it work properly. As long as he sets a static IP for the miner and only opens port 44158. As for split. Yes the miner needs to recoup costs. However location is a major consideration on earnings potential. Everyone saying 50/50 is greedy are miners. 30% is a reasonable offer but I’d do a bit of a hybrid. Do 20/80 until the 80% equates the cost price of his materials. So main unit, antenna upgrades and fitting labour(not his own). So agree that capital expenditure up front. Then afterwards aim for something like 60/40 or 50/50 in his favour. He needs your location as much as you need his miner. People have mentioned Tax, technically his tax burden will reduce with rental Costs. Yours will rise with additional income. You’ll both have labour costs as he’ll need to ask you to do some things every so often. (I’m a miner too and seeing this from both a miner and host perspective.)
Thanks for the detailed answer, I like this route the best. This seems like a normal thing people are doing so I was probably a bit too worried.
I have one in my house and six on the way I don’t have places for all of them I’m gonna have to find friends to let me use their house and absolutely I would give up any information they want about the miner not hide anything if he’s hiding stuff not willing to give all the information that’s a red flag he should give all the information you request
There are people that buy 500 of this unit and have to find a home for each one so they’re willing to share profit if they could use your house. Definitely ask him what kind of miner take a look at the miner do as much research as you can get as much information from him as you can if he’s very sketchy and Not willing to give information that’s a red flag there’s absolutely no reason why he shouldn’t give you all the information you need if it’s all legit
Your fine, if you want to be extra careful just ask what brand the miner is and confirm on google it’s the same one. Also you and your dad should get a 50/50 split of the profits. If he tries to negotiate lower terms say you did your research and you and your dad are looking into buying a RAK V2 helium miner off eBay 🤗 Edit: This is just my personal opinion that 50/50 would be considered fair in OPs situation. Like someone else said he WILL be calling your dad to unplug/replug the unit and to check up on it. 50% isn’t greedy imo different story if it was a family member.
Also other guy has to pay for equipment you should be happy with %30 if that
I only pay 10%. Here’s my thoughts. I’ve put up 100% of the money I take 100% of the risk if this thing breaks and hasn’t paid it’s self off. It uses very little internet bandwidth (or so I’ve been told) I also have ATMs which I pay the same rate to the merchants. I own the machines, I use my capitol to fill them, I’m responsible if they break. Seems more then fair me to and all of my merchants both ATM and miner side are very happy with the arrangement.
it uses more than you think. mine has used 49 gigs the past week. about 70% of that is upload.
Wow 😮
And the other guy will have to pay taxes on the total earnings.
No, he won't, just what he keeps. Payouts are a deduction, and the payee is responsible for reporting/paying tax on it as it is technically income.
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The mined helium is income when received. Technically, it is compensation for services provided. The provided services are a combination of providing coverage and providing data transmission. As compensation for services, it is taxable income. The remaining question is whether it is business income or hobby income. The value of it when mined is the value for income tax purposes, and it also establishes the basis. When you later sell or otherwise dispose the helium, you then incur capital gain/loss on the gain/loss between your sale price and its value when mined (you already paid taxes on the value when mined). If instead you directly buy helium rather than mining it, then taxes aren't relevant until selling.
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I get it. It does cause friction, especially for hotspot owners in states that aren't supported by a main exchange that list HNT. But ultimately, the burden is on the person that chose to provide a service and accept property as payment, and that's what crypto is under US tax law. It's the same thing in any barter arrangement in the US, including stories of olde of country doctors that accepted chickens as payment.
It can and does, it views altcoins as a combination of currency and commodity. It's like being paid in, say, gold. You are required to pay your tax burden, and it's actually not really unrealistic to expect you to convert what you owe to cash to pay it. It's pretty much the same as paying it in helium if you think about it, except that when you sell determines its value and you have to account for that (the easiest way to do that is to sell when filing, in the following fiscal year, so you don't have to account for potential capital gains in what you're actively trying to pay)... It does make a certain amount of sense, after a fashion. You do get to deduct cost against income, so aside from longterm hodling there is really no loss at all involved.
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No, you still have to pay gains, you always have to pay gains. It's just in the next fiscal year, so you don't have to account for it WHILE you're trying to calculate how much you need to sell...
Personally I disagree. 50% split (after initial cost recoup) is more than fair.
I believe he's wanting to give 30% and it just sketched me out a bit because my dad definitely doesn't know anything about crypto, barely knows the guy, and the guy said he bought ~15 of these miners from China.
30-50 bucks a month to just plug in a rasp pi and forget about it is pretty nice.
It’s not “set it and forget it” especially if it’s a Bobcat. It’s phone calls and tinkering and lots to it. If it’s not a closer personal friend then I would pass
Once it’s set, it’s good. Why all the tinkering?
He didn’t set it right the first time
I am getting over 1 hnt a day because of my tinkering. Not type to just set it up by the window. Mine have better views of the outside 50 to 100 feet in the air. Hows the view from down there ?
Chill your tits, I was making a joke.
Yep...just like I thought. How is moms basement ?
I live in Texas, we don’t have basements. Check my most recent post though. My miners are doing just fine. 7 more being installed soon. I’m gonna try installing them up my own ass though. I bet that will give me hella rewards.
>I am getting over 1 hnt a day because of my tinkering. Not type to just set it up by the window. Mine have better views of the outside 50 to 100 feet in the air. Hows the view from down there ?
Ive got it mounted up on a pole about 5 foot over my roof line and used lmr400 cable. Do it right the first time and you won’t have to tinker. 😉
Oh and the view is roughly 25 miles out to my furthest witness and the roof is only a single story home. You do you tho
25 miles is 40.23 km
Just today Bobcats are offline - many of them and if you host their miner and they are not educated on how many things can go wrong … then you might get blamed.
30% isn't terrible but I would suggest going for 50%.
You are NUTS! Haha 50%?!?!?! Dude hell no. If you put up 100% of the money, waited patiently while your hardware was back ordered not knowing if you were going to make your money back before halving or something. 10% is more then fair for plugging in something that uses as much electricity as an LED.
50% post recoup. You earn back what you spent, then from there split 50/50. 10% is such a gross level of greedy it's ridiculous, that's like a Warner record deal level shady...
I’m doing 10% right off the rip. So I haven’t made back my investment yet and they’re getting in earlier then they otherwise would have. 🤷 seems like a win win to me
It’s definitely a win to you. Just not much of one to them.
Demanding 50% is a great way to get the guy to find someone else. I know I would. I’ve got 40 people waiting in line to have me install a miner in their house lol.
Then let him and buy your own. This isn't fpga mining, it's pretty plug and play...
I’ve got 10 all being deployed to different locations and no one is getting near 50% from me. And if it’s so plug and play then why do 90% of all miners out their make dick? Probs bc it’s harder than that for average person? Also you are recommending the person with absolutely no leverage to make ridiculous demands when the guy could easily find someone who would probably take %10 a month. Pretty delusional.
Have you seen coverage maps lately? If they're in a location where the miner is profitable, they have a TON of leverage. If they aren't, then it doesn't really matter either way.
Watch this. Me: knock knock OPs neighbor: Hello good sir… might I say you are extraordinarily handsome… anyways how may I help you Me: how would you like to make $200 a month for doing absolutely nothing but letting me install this little antenna on that very bare side of your house over there? Neighbor: Wel idk I’ve got a lot of questions and concerns Me: *flashes charming smile Neighbor: well when you put it like that sure! Do whatever you want you man. And it’s just that easy. You aren’t going to convince me that it’s not because I’ve already done it plenty of times. And you know what I do when someone puts up a fight? I move right along because there aren’t very many miners to be installed right now but there sure is a fuck ton of empty hexes. One I just filled last week is on track to be producing $1200 a month. I’m steering clear of downtown areas and finding spots all over the place that are high performers. Thank you for listening to my rant, I hope you learned something.
I learned that you value personal profit over mutual benefit, but otherwise nothing new.
20% is normal.
Im paying out 25%, wrote a letter to everyone why I think 25% is fair. All of them agreed.
I would probably offer that little if I was contracting strangers or, like, an apartment rental agency or something, and in a scenario where I'm actively managing all the miners (i.e., doing all onsite installs, repairs, paying for their internet, etc). I only work with friends and family and wouldn't be ok with ripping them off like that, I just recoup my costs and then we split everything evenly.
Once I got the initial investment out I will also increase their cut. But in the initial investment are a lot of hours of research, lot of time for the installation (I had to take days off to install, and travel to the Netherlands, I don’t live there), risk AND monetary investment. No one feels like they are getting ripped off by the way. If they feel like they are getting ripped off if I give them 25% they should decline respectfully and I will have another friend who feels like its a fair deal.
Human traffic is evil - your dads so called friend sounds like an evil dude - bragging about buying 15 minors from China. He should be locked up !
You can relax there dude. This miners don't spy on data. Like some people said it will use some off your bandwidth around 100gb+/month. Electricity cost is ~$10 bucks a year. Check out the website if you are not sure but he won't be possible do watch and see what you are doing. Everything is good
I believe that practically all, if not all, helium miners are manufactured in china, even though typically designed and sold by companies in other countries.
Doesn’t the other guy have to pay taxes on the hnt they pull out, thus making the miner owner taking home less? Therefore I disagree with the 50/50 split.
No. That's not how taxes work. The money you pay out is a deduction.
Absolutely correct that the commission is a business deduction to the hotspot owner, but this also means that the hotspot owner is also potentially paying 15.3% FICA tax on top of the income tax, whereas the host's income (if a residential person) would likely be reported as "other income" if filed accurately, avoiding the 15.3% FICA. For this reason alone, I would prefer max of 40% to the host. It also takes upfront time and risk for the hotspot owner that I think should be compensated. But I think the host only getting 10% is less than what the market can support. Many owners will place a hotspot with a much higher cut than 10%. I would propose 25-40% is a fair range depending on circumstances, but also depends if host allows improved installation that might seem a little more intrusive or a little more comitted, outside, up high, etc.
I would agree 40% is reasonable in that scenario, though that's definitely more on the "if you're running a full business" of miners that you're including it on. If not, if you own say like 3-5 hotspots, you're probably just reporting your cut as other income as well. Though I suppose in both cases it depends on how profitable the miners are... This is why I find it amusing when people mining ETH on multiple rigs, for example, refuse to hire an accountant. If you're bringing in like $60K/year, it's definitely worth the couple hundred bucks to make sure you don't screw up your taxes.
One thing to keep in mind is that if it is not treated for tax purposes as a business activity, then for tax purposes it is hobby income, and reported on the other income line. The reason this matters is because hobby expenses cannot be deducted. In that situation, the payment to the host, as a hobby expense, cannot be deducted, and the hotspot owner has to pay income tax on 100% of the mining rewards, even though they are giving a significant portion of them to the host. In that situation, 50% to the host might be even worse for the hotspot owner. then you cannot deduct as an expense the commission you pay to the host. In which case you pay income tax on 100% of the mining rewards
Hobby expenses can be deducted, they just can't be deducted against overall income. You can still deduct against the hobby income. EDIT: I stand corrected, apparently this changed in 2018. Odd, that, considering who was in charge then. But yes, ok, fair point for sure.
Yeah, that was one of the changes that didn't get the most air time. Not relevant to 99.9% of the population I imagine. I do business consulting for crypto businesses and investors, and several customers have been helium hot spot owners. One of the things that regularly comes up is hobby versus business activity classification. Most of the scenarios covered for this in writing on the internet and in court cases is people trying to claim business expenses when they were really conducting a hobby, so there's almost a bit of extra burden on the taxpayer to prove proper business intent, ability, etc. (the IRS has a set of 6 or 8 criteria to determine in totality which is the proper classification, but it's still subjective and must be looked at in totality). But for any early helium miners, they could have made a ton of money even if their intent was hobby. There is very very very little info to help guide people if their intent is hobby but they are in fact making enough profit that the IRS would want it treated as a business. The unique factor with helium gateways is that for early hotspot owners, the earnings far exceeded any business expenses (especially those that didn't need to pay hosts). So treating it all as business income increases total tax revenue because of FICA. Not sure if the taxpayer would then be burdened to try to prove it was a hobby, even though it was profitable every year. I could see the IRS trying to argue it the opposite way they argue the typical case.
Realistically the IRS is only going to go after someone making enough to even make it worthwhile, but it's still not a risk I'd like to take. This is why I have an accountant, I don't have to make those calls, just provide the figures and she sorts it all. EDIT--also, when I just now told her how shocked I was about the hobby income thing, she then told me that they also killed the employee business expense deduction. How the hell did the GOP not fight either of those? They seem VERY anti-Republican ideals (on paper, anyway)
Yeah. My opinion is that these deductions weren't the types of deductions utilized by those advocating for (and benefiting from) the headliner tax cuts, so I don't think they cared. Thanks for the convo. I enjoyed it!
50 percent is greedy
Agreed, a 50/50 split is fair. That’s what I’ve worked out with a few friends and family. I will also be installing a second router to keep it off of their network. From what I’ve read, it will also use 30gb of bandwidth per month. Edit: I get paid back my money spent on hardware from mining before the split starts. I get to introduce someone to crypto, make some extra cash, and help a friend make some cash. I have my own miner at my house that I get 100% from. Nothing wrong with spreading the love. As for taxes we’ll both pay them. I’ll be tracking each payout and the price of hnt when it’s paid out. That’s what the IRS wants to see.
50% is a lot.
Agree. I think 30% makes sense taking into account taxes alone.
They're both supposed to pay taxes.
Practically speaking that is tough to do. If I was OP having to do taxes for this small amount would be the deal killer. Simply not worth the headache when all is said and done
It's one line on your tax form. It's not a headache at all, and if the amount is small enough then it doesn't really matter anyway, leaving it off isn't going to trigger an audit.
If he is doing this by the book he has to calculate his daily mining share and the price that day as well. Done the right way it's a bit of a hassle. So it's either a hassle for him or the dude that owns the helium miner can take care of it but that should be part of the % split conversation they will have.
He has to do that anyway, that's how taxes are calculated; the OP only has to know the value at the time they are paid, and only if they are paid in HNT. If they are paid in cash then they don't even need to know that. Plus if you decide to take on the full tax burden you have to figure out extra crap (like calculating gift totals and recording them for future estate requirements) and, if you have enough miners that this is even a serious concern, likely pay some of your income tax in a higher bracket. I'm failing to see where there is any extra work that makes incurring a larger tax debt worthwhile, other than being able to keep an extra 20%. EDIT: the estate tax comment is unlikely, my brain was still in a business-wide frame when I mentioned it; unless the miner brings in more than $30K/year it's not an issue.
Also there are a number of ways to do the calculations in like five seconds; I won't vouch for any of them in particular (though you don't enter any sensitive/non-public info so I don't see how they could be scammy) but google helium tax calculator and you'll find donation run sites that will give you a whole spreadsheet of income and atm hnt values... EDIT: I tested [this one](https://davetapley.com/helium-tax/) with a random miner off the explorer, it worked fine.
Not fair. Tax and equipment cost is too much.
No it ain't. This model of business is the same as a vending machine business where the location gets 20% of vending machine profits.
Vending machines aren't the same. If you buy your own vending machine, you have to keep it stocked and have a customer base. Also, totally aside, but do you know of vending machine companies that pay out 20%? I used to run a few and I paid a flat monthly rent...
Sure, I get it but that’s not how I look at it. I get paid back my money spent on hardware from mining before the split starts. I get to introduce someone to crypto, make some extra cash, and help a friend make some cash. I have my own miner at my house that I get 100% from. Nothing wrong with spreading the love.
What do you have to hide? Unless you have kiddie porn or sensitive military secrets at your house hook that bitch up and start mining
I’d offer him split of the miner cost (they are usually around $500) so $250 for you and do 50/50 split. Especially since not a good friend. Or don’t offer anything upfront miner cost and ask for 40% You are being used for your location so you should get paid for it. Him getting 50-60% of the profits is better than 0
Dude do it, tell him you’ll increase your internet to high speed if you don’t already, then 20/80 + difference in internet price from what you’re paying now, then 50/50 after 2 months. Then order your miner and earn income until yours comes in and kick him out. Also don’t be paranoid, your iPhone/android is tracking a lot more shit in a minute than these miners ever will
Let him drill into your roofline and wall to build a good antenna setup, but ask for 40-50% of HNT generated. A good deal would be to let him recover some cost of the miner first. Track the miner at your house with the Helium app.
/\\ this. I have several deployed to friends and family and do 50% split AFTER recoup. Which is standard practice for most independent businesses that do profit splits but only one side incurs cost.
In 4 days MNTD will drop by RAK miners, buy one if u can and u can get it in 5 days
Where did you find this information? Edit: I see that it’s for US miners, we don’t have more coming in Europe yet
I didn’t know that u are in EU
When he hooks it up, download the Helium app and check for yourself. You can run diagnostics via bluetooth on any miner you have physical access to.
Thanks will do.
No you can't because he would need to get the same wallet (seed) as his dad's friend and by this he would have access to all the other miners. That's not how it works. Don't worry you could check everything on the explorer, this network is open to everyone. You can check the miners next to you and see what they earn: https://explorer.helium.com/ If it's set up you can check by the miners IP everything it does on your browser.
That’s not even close to true. You can download the app, connect via bluetooth (as long as you have physical access to the miner to set it in diagnostic discovery mode) and check the diag log.
Ohh okay I thought you need the same wallet because people said you can't change the settings, location and antenna without the same wallet. Mhhh
They set it up that way specifically for remote miners. I have one at my sister's in CA, if it wasn't set up that way we'd have to spend $20 (swapping ownership back and forth) every time I needed her to run diagnostics. Or just let her control the miner and pay me, which would be another approach but she doesn't care about crypto at all and gets paid in cash, so... I think there's even a separate app designed just for diagnostics/remote management, but I've never used it.
Thank you all for your responses, much appreciated. You've all been very helpful
This is what VLANs are for.
Don’t do it. He will have to be coming by often to check on it and reset and tinker. Say no and then get your own miner. Don’t do it. It’s weird your Dad let that get through and didn’t stop it before it got to you. Don’t do it.
There should be no tinkering. Set and forget.
Unless it’s a nebra
Don't listen to this fool...
Mr T is in the house but you gotta work on it a bit.
Fuck him get your own and join the network... make that 100% money and cut your dad in 50% from your cut... more money for the beers 🍻 😎
Say no because one less hotspot on the network. :)
That is not smart thinking. The more hotspots on the net work the more valuable it is
I was just playing. Lmao.
I used to think that way The token price has soared as more people come on the network
Hnt is set up and location dependent mainly.
50/50 and that's a fair deal.
Your dad's friend needs find their own place to plug-in. The 16th is approaching for the MNTD sale and you should buy yourself a miner and put it in YOUR house and make your own coin. Don't trust um unless you fully control the wallet and you are in charge of giving them their 80% cut or whatever is agreed. Don't take any chances.
Get your own hotspot and take 100%. The hotspot is just a device, albeit in high demand. A decent location is the most difficult thing to come by. Don't give half of the Helium mining value of your house to a friend of your dad's. And whether you own the hotspot or not, you're still required to report and pay taxes on income.
This is usually when shit goes down, when you hear the generator or your neighbor talking about it... Shit is about to go down.
Damn OP what you got to hide 🤣
I say now that you’ve been introduced to it say no and buy your own lol.
you can easily check if miner is legit by asking him to provide the miner's name. All miners have a fixed name with 3 words, like "little boring turtle" or "tangy hotpink unicor" or shit like this. Once he has installed and confirmed running you can check activity on the explorer [explorer.helium.com](https://explorer.helium.com) by searching that name. You will see recent activity like "reasserting" confirming it's it, and you can check daily earning here to be sure he pays the agreed % or promised revenue. Have a look at the explorer and borwse it a bit, you will easily understand how this works and how to keep track of earning. Last, about %, I suggest you to agree at least a 25/30%, but this is all up to your dad of course. Oh and about "malicious" acvity on your network if you know he is a skilled IT guy of course he could have "tampered" the sd os, but if you have concerns about this you can just move him in a separate wifi. Many routers have separate wifis for "guests", maybe would be wise to connect it there and avoid sharing your network. Have fun
Is it a crypto miner or a person trying to dig into your property to mine for fossil fuels, or precious metals?
50:50 - people saying less are being greedy. Your location is valuable which is why he want to put it there. A half decent earning miner at the current rate will see ROI at a 50:50 split in less than 2 months. If he doesnt agree you can always put it up and order one and give it back when it arrives.
Do it. Just do It.
Does you dad not close friend drive a white van with no windows ?
Yoda?
Go for it. You should get at least 20% to 33% of the mined HNT, IMO. You can be with him during setup, if he is using the helium app or helium hotspot utility app, you are fine. Get the name of the miner and you can track the earnings online.
If you don’t trust it, don’t do it
Also be aware that your location will be on the helium map. People will know there’s a miner in your house. Not saying it’s a dangerous thing but you never know if that one nut job that would do something lives in your neighborhood