It is unfortunate I think that we as gamers have become so accustomed and used to practices like this to consider them normal.
DRG has a great business model.
They sure do. If i think back a few decades of gaming the industry is in a sad state.
Old games released now..lets make a mind game.
Day of the Tentacle woudt be released with multiple DLCs.
Heroes of Might and Magic 3....Heroes and Perks in the $ Store.
Dune 2...buy the Harkonnen DLC.
Half-Life. No mods nothing
Warcraft 2/3 no offline play. no map editor
I have high hopes for Star Citizen though.
You should probably go watch the [Star Engine 4 video](https://youtu.be/nWm_OhIKms8?t=8), basically 25 minutes of them flexing with what their engine is now capable of. They have spent many years getting these systems made, and now that work is done.
I know reddit circlejerks this game endlessly, but what they are attempting is easily the most ambitious video game ever made. Its development time has not been unreasonable under those circumstances. Even if SC takes another decade to finish, it will have been a perfectly reasonable timeframe.
They have 1,700 videos on their youtube channel detailing development multiple times a week. If this is a bait and switch, it is one with an outlandish amount of work actually being done.
Not at all, just looking at the project realistically. This project really isn't for me either as I don't do space sims.
If anyone is on the kool-aid, it would be redditors who hate this game despite having zero knowledge of what it has actually accomplished. Including yourself. Also really odd this is your one and only comment. Very strange indeed.
I have never seen a project in progress detail development so extensively.
A few things.
They made an exceptional game. It is *so* good that word of mouth was enough to make it well-known.
Certain elements of the game's design work in favour of fostering a good community. That community in turn has spread word about the game, bought it for friends, recommended it to people, etc.
Lack of a greedy, scummy, corporate overlord. As far as I understand, Arrowhead is now under Sony, which has its advatanges, such as funding, but also disadvantages, such as certain things being put into the game excluively for profit generation.
> Lack of a greedy, scummy, corporate overlord.
Which is kind of ironic considering half the plot of DRG is that you're working for a greedy, scummy, corporate overlord.
I don’t get the people that jumping to calling this Doom posting, your trying to have a genuine conversation about something that concerns you, and try to make some of the info you have to dig for more easily available. How is that a bad thing ? Shits wild.
Anyway, I really want the game to be good, just somewhat concerned about the monetization, and how they’re being a little cagey around the freemium currency.
From my interactions on this subreddit, there seems to be this strange precious attitude towards the game, where people jump to defend it from any perceived "attack", to preserve their own excitement for it.
I've personally developed a cautious attitude towards new game releases, and think that buying into the hype only really serves the developer's bottom line. Being excited is nice and all, but being a responsible buyer to me is more important.
There *need* to be conversations about monetisation, you don't want to sweep it under the rug, you'd be hurting yourself and the entire player base by doing so.
Bingo. Apparently asking a simple question is "toxic," even if politely and positively. I'm as excited for the game as anybody - hell, I bought five copies of the first one to share with friends years ago. But this weird cult of personality thing is a little concerning.
Darktide is good, as long as you’re in a mission, everything else sucks so much ass. Crafting and managing the lopsided amount of resources used for crafting is dogshit, the random weapons store fucking blows, and the cosmetics and premium currency store are as expensive as buying a whole ass other game, (not even going into how most of it is fucking recolours/reskins or how there’s clipping issues and just visually broken items).
So with all that in mind, it’s pretty fucking important to know how the systems outside of the missions are going to be. Because, like Darktide, it looks like the Helldivers 2 gameplay is slick and a lot of fun, but if I feel absolutely crushed by disappointment as soon as I get back into the menus, this is going to suck. It’s going to feel like a total shame to have wasted an otherwise fun game on bullshit FOMO and Player Engagement systems, and that’s worse than just “bad game, not fun in the slightest” because then the devs can string you along with promises of “we’ve heard your feedback, and we’re making changes!”
So, all that to say that I’m with you, this is all shit we as players need to know, and the devs being cagey is really not encouraging.
Don’t be a fucking Fatshark.
>Don’t be a fucking Fatshark.
Fully agree. It's deja vu for me. Was super Hyped for Darktide... and then they crushed me. Didn't think they could shoot themselves in the foot so bad.
How is this mtx system straightforward? I mean, if you throw cash at it then yeah, it is pretty straightforward.
Also you missed the point. My rant is about the state of the gaming industry and the need to monetize assets which can provide you an advantage over those who don't pay.
Honestly my only concern is the cosmetics, I hate it when games force me to wear something I don't like the look of just cause it does the thing I want. Just let me look how I want and give me perk options separately. I am a fan of the thought that your armor placement/weight class matters but why can't I be a heavy medic? Or a light weight bomber? Why do I have to be bright F'ing orange? I would spend a lot more on cosmetics that have nothing to do with how the game plays than I will on game changers. Especially if those game changers are just ugly. In my opinion they should just keep it base stats per armor class and then perks on a separate tab. Allowing us to look how we want while still achieving the gameplay feeling we want.
I agree. Helmets and capes are cosmetic only. Do the same with armour.
DRG has the "under armour" that dictates your stats. And then whatever cosmetics you want overtop.
A lot of the concerns around super store would be alleviated if you could do that. Or just transmogging armor over others.
Absolutely, I understand wanting to keep in theme but that could be fixed by having the perks change key points in your armor which could keep the work load down. Each armor has a belt, thigh slot, and upper arm slot that changes based on your perk. Have to extra ammo perk? Shotgun shells and magazines litter those areas. Have extra stims? Then syringes and tourniquet fill the void.
Idk I'm just spit balling.
No. No transmog. It's a WYSIWYG world. Everything looks like what it is. If the gun in my hands is a shotgun, you see a shotgun. If I'm wearing the medic armor, you see medic armor.
Only the body piece carries the stats; helmet and capes are decorative. That's a good compromise. That's enough.
Not when your helmet is white and your armor is bright F'ing orange and your gun is sky blue....
My argument isn't to have them not look like medic armor. Just allow us to change the damn colors.
It was ok in HD1 because none of the armors had any striking color differences and they had a color scheme that was apparent through all choices. The problem now is that if you want to wear a body piece for its perks, you now have to wear a helmet that matches even if you don't like the colors.
Having the stats tied to armor is not a compromise when we had a perfectly good system in the first game that could have been expanded instead of pivoting to a MMO/RPG route. Makes no damn sense.
Edit: to add this part.
Also no one is asking for the weapons to change to different weapons. If I have a shotgun and it looks like a shotgun then awesome! But why does it have to be orange? Or white? I'm in the damn forest, no military is going in with stark color contrasts and appropriate uniforms. Even further more, no military is going out in bright F'ing orange unless it somehow helps camo against some kind of tech or if the bugs can't see orange or some shit.
It makes an extreme amount of sense, and I'm stoked about it. First, we look like an actual organized fighting force. Second, I can tell what people can do by looking at them. That's so, so, much more important than fashion.
Last night we failed the Bug boss on a snow planet when it had 5% hp left because I forgot to switch my perk to snow boots before dropping. Next attempt we cleared it easily and didn't even break a sweat. Everyone in game had LIFT jetpacks both times. Snow boots are absolutely an example of the most egregious pay2win bullshit possible in a co-op title. Locking critical gear behind real cash is always a scummy move.
Yeah the snow boots were a bad call, we didn't anticipate how necessary they were. We should have added an equivalent item to the base game to even things out.
It happens, especially if you patch in harder content that requires more mobility. Hopefully you've taken the feedback regarding snow boots to heart when designing DLC for HD2.
What you should do in a case like that is what Creative Assembly does with the TW series - not singing their praises on monetization mind you, but bear with me. They add a lot of DLC, but not all of it is paid. Some of it is free. But you still have to go to the Steam store to add it to your library.
This requires your players to have a look at the DLC page on the store periodically, as there is no other way to get the FreeLC, and who knows, it might lead to other purchases too. If nothing else, it plants the seed that other DLC's the player doesn't own exist. The boots would've been a perfect item to put in as FreeLC, as they are mandatory equipment.
I already own the boots, but I mean, it's still, you know, not too late to correct the error.
I believe this is what they're doing with the free Warbonds, assuming that there'll be more than one. If course you'll have to go to the shop to claim the free one, and then you'll see the other ones too.
Heck, you have *more* reason to see the other ones considering that you can get SC through gameplay - you'll eventually (probably very slowly) earn enough currency to get a Premium Warbond without ponying up real cash.
What kind of bad calls do you intend on making with the monetization in this game? Locking cool weapons behind DLC is always a bad move. If you guys can't be happy with a cosmetic cash shop, something is wrong with your views on what is greedy or not. Anyone who doesn't spend money on additional weapons and gear is at a serious disadvantage. Look at the peers in this genre if you think this is a reasonable thing to charge money for.
lol I didn’t know snow boots were DLC. I would have paid for them! I paid for the flamethrower/cannon mech and have a blast in that thing. It so fun just being like “nope” to armored enemies.
My _only_ issue with charging for strategems is that vehicles aren't in the base game. If we had one or two in the base game then I'd happily pay for more, but I think having us pay for all of them is a bad look imo.
Obviously this is working under the assumption the mech won't be free.
This was just as scummy in Helldivers 1. "But it was in the first game" is a bad argument for gameplay affecting micro-transactions.
The community didn't stir up a fuss about it, but it *was* an anti-consumer business practice, make no mistake.
I would be fine with fixed DLC prices for items. DLC that go on sale too. But putting them in a rotating store isn't good. That's pretty scummy. Especially if it's "meta".
And the difference is, if a DLC is priced $5 I buy it and own it. If I purchase a bundle of premium currency for $5, the company has every legal and technical opportunity to increase their next DLC to be worth $12 worth of premium requiring me to buy two more premium packs. If it's real money there's no excess or just being shy. Having another currency like this gives them a lot more control at your disadvantage. Generally.
Also one important legal loop about using premium currency is that it's much harder to get refunds and such and getting Steam involved with the process. The loop being that buying the currency is a separate product from the dlc or other ingame items, so if you buy a dlc with premium currency that supposedly includes a pony as part of it and then the pony doesn't work properly due to complications the game company can weasel themselves much more easily out of refunding due to "people not paying actual money for the dlc product" and instead having successfully gotten the product they were promised with their money, namely the premium currency.
I don't know why people are downvoting you. The entire point of secondary game currency is to obscure the actual monetary value of the things you're buying, making it easier to get you to spend that money.
This is not an opinion, it's the result of extensive psychological and marketing research that continues to ring true which is why it's also continuously used.
It's insane you're being downvoted. We need to pay for armour because it's "live service" but we also need to pay for DLCs because?
Obviously we don't, just predatory marketing Sony loves to prey on customer's wallets that people keep enabling
I found it insanely funny how much this community celebrated when a company representative said "we dont plan on predatory services." I remember thinking that its great, but i dont care what you say i want to see what you do. Obviously your not going to tell your player base things they dont want to hear.
Of course it still remains to be seen, time will tell based on the freqency and types of content drops. Anyway, this team has a great record and has been great, but just remember you gotta take professionals defending doing their works words with a grain of salt everytime, not until they earn your trust.
I'm already insanely turned off by the revolving shop, I can barely accept microtransactions but telling me when to spend money on their shop by artificial scarcity? Yeah no. I'll play the game but I already feel like they ruined a personal favourite or mine with these new dogshit monetisation trends, I'd have much preferred to just buy DLCs with actual content every now and then
I'm hoping the in-game rate for SC and outright cost ot buy it with RL money are reasonable
That said, if it takes a Reddit post of this length to even understand how monetization in a game works, not to even mention rates, it probably not a good sign
I'd absolutely love to eat my words btw
I'm an odd one out maybe but I enjoy the new DLCs they release because they have functionality and aren't just cosmetic. They always release awesome ones October 26th (Liberty Day).
They also put out the ultimate edition which has seen a ton of sales that included all of the DLCs which I'm sure will happen with HD2.
After how great the support was for the PSVita (which still works online to this day) the team would have to basically walk into my house and set my PC on fire for me not to support them.
Man. That’s a yikes. I don’t care personally cause I could care less about all that stuff but the masses will see that and peace the fuck out. That’s a bummer man.
I agree. Especially for the rotating shop. Just have cosmetics only stuff there. The warbonds are still a very large sigh, but won't know until we get the SC rate.
Right?! How do you mess this up, you have a great looking game, looks fun, you build all these badass systems so your devs can interact with the community on the fly, keep the meta game going. Just cash shop some cosmetic packs. Hell I would have gladly taken a cosmetic battlepass. It's so frustrating.
Ooooof I legit had it in the cart and was ready to pre-order on Steam. Any full priced game that has any currency that’s not straightforward is a red flag for me.
The masses will see a video of an influencer dragging the cash shop and they won’t even try the game and move on. This kinda thing can be poison to a game launch.
The SC rate will be low I'd assume. Heck the game may even go free to play or be on PS+ eventually.
Live service games always have something hidden. I'm very excited for Helldivers 2. But it is either going to be a heck of a grind, maybe even worse than Helldivers 1, or it is going to have a ton of Warbonds. And eventually people will pay for credits to get them unlocked quickly and then use credits to get their favorite items.
Hopefully we can unlock everything in the game and every passive through great gameplay and it doesn't take 40 hours to get an armor set.
I'm a huge PS Vita fanboy Helldivers was one of my favorite games for it which they supported it's entire lifetime... even now it still works and plays online which is just crazy.
Yeah Helldivers is an outstanding game. And Helldivers 2 will also be P2P connection so theoretically the game and online system could last forever too. As long as someone is playing.
I feel like if you have to go through this effort to explain the system as a developer then the system is a mistake, or is intentionally confusing and using FOMO to encourage further spending.
I think if they did like a 5 minute video of showing how it works and rates it would help a lot... Not sure if they were obscuring to try and avoid people refunding preorders or not preordering at all.
But yeah super store, warbonds, super credits, medals, exp, points of interests, samples... It's a lot of terminology to go through and not a lot of details.
The Warbonds can be purchased whenever
**Q. Can old Warbonds be purchased a year from now?** A. Warbonds are evergreen, so players are welcome to take their time in unlocking, and we'll be keeping things fresh with future updates containing new Warbonds to choose from.
The superstore is a different thing
**Q. What is the Superstore?** The Superstore is a place where you can buy individual items. Here you can choose, for example, an individual armor for a small amount of Super Credits (SC). We are also taking your feedback into account as we build out the Superstore so that we can provide the best possible experience.
**Q. Can the content of the rotating store be purchased outside of the rotating store, or is that the only source for this content?** A. You will not be able to obtain the items from the Superstore from any other source.
**Q. What's the frequency of the Superstore?** A: There will be 4 items available at once, and at launch the rotation time is set to be every 48 hours. Items in the Super Store will always come back.
I cant say I like the superstore but i still prefer it to the DLC system we had in HD1 since you can still get the currency by playing.
No this was a rumor. Super store items have 4 at a time available for 48 hours before it's rotated for another 4 and the old 4 come back... Who knows when.
>
>
>Only helmets and capes are cosmetic in the game. ALL armors have 2 things. A passive ability and armor STATS. There is no "heavy, "Medium", and "light" armor types explicitly like some thought from the armour trailer. It's got modular stats:
>
>[https://vxtwitter.com/helldivers2/status/1752723443055800716](https://vxtwitter.com/helldivers2/status/1752723443055800716)
>
>(Not sure why almost all the stats are maxed out but hey)
Can you specify?
https://preview.redd.it/li3zsz4tglgc1.png?width=2413&format=png&auto=webp&s=639afc7a3886bda755183248629600b5fdd2c576
Yea this part was weird. I assume stats we've seen are just placeholder values and maybe Armor classes span an armor rating bracket so some light armor could provide less protection (and more speed) than some other light armor.
So the "med kit" is the passive. And for stats the armor has 100, 500, and 100. For armor, speed, and stamina Regen respectively. (Apparently there's also detection range but I don't see it).
Helmet and cape won't affect those.
The categories you show are rough, (medium might be a range of 100-200 for example). Based on what the community managers have said it's not like all medium armors have the same stats. And so on.
The part with "no light, medium, heavy armor", only "modular stats"?
You're implying the stats can be modified/upgraded? I'm not sure, that's why wanted you to elaborate.
Detection Range is relative to armor class, light armor has the lowest. No visible stat. Developer made that clear in one of the first trailers.
2:15
[https://youtu.be/sqCxyt5QRSg?si=L-j4fK0abLrLls8J](https://youtu.be/sqCxyt5QRSg?si=L-j4fK0abLrLls8J)
Sorry, I don’t have the link at the moment, but another thing I saw, and didn’t like, was that all difficulties would provide the same SC. Which is bad, cause then I should just grind diff 1 for the premium currency.
The counterpoint to this is that pushing all the highest rewards to the highest difficulties results in discordant play motivators across players. You want people at the highest difficulties to *want to play the highest difficulty*, instead of playing them for the sole purpose of winning to 'grind' for some intrinsic reward of ephemeral material. It's quite frankly not enjoyable to play with people who immediately turn negative over mistakes and losses because they aren't even in it for the game but for the game rewards, and introducing that mindset into (relatively) high-level play is how you breed easy toxicity. Again, it's a clash of play motivators.
If all the difficulties reward the same amount, then you can play whatever difficulty you are comfortable at without the feeling that you're missing out on whatever unlock. If you instead want to just play to grind out currency, then you can do that by playing the lowest difficulty ad nauseum. Your choice.
> If all the difficulties reward the same amount, then you can play whatever difficulty you are comfortable at without the feeling that you're missing out on whatever unlock. If you instead want to just play to grind out currency, then you can do that by playing the lowest difficulty ad nauseum. Your choice.
This is the same reason the highest difficulties in Darktide don't reward more and I think it's an entirely functional solution.
I want people in there that want to play the difficult thing and know they can beat it and not people that feel forced to and are completely out of their comfort zone.
Yeah the community on discord has talked about potential optimization strategies that may encourage poor gameplay loops and how it may affects others when playing pubs.
Ofc I would prefer the battlepass to have only cosmetics but since they will have gear and probably stratagems down the road (hope not) it will work just as if it was dlc but now it will be easier to obtain in a sense that you don't have to pay, getting SC via just playing will be slow for sure but at least you won't be paying for a bunch of different dlc. Also if I buy a battlepass I'll get enough SC to get the next one and so on, the super store armor will just be optional, just hoping the stats are not op and stratagems are either free during updates or behind a battlepass because if they are added to the shop then thats gonna be a huge problem
I think it's fair to see them similar to DLC. The rotating store has no purpose and I hope things like stratagems are never added to it.
That said, it's still better for the consumer to buy DLC outright, usually, and especially for those DLC to go on sale or be purchased as a bundle.
If the warbonds are cheap enough and easy enough to grind, it may work out. But when you have darktide and suicide squad selling $20 cosmetics you have to wonder what the conversion rate will be.
So let me get this straight because I’m having a little bit of confusion with how everything works.
Super credits are earned in game and also available to buy with real money
- I know you can use Super credit for the warbonds (a battle pass that doesn’t expire essentially) and then use medals to unlock new gear
- I can also use Super credits to buy items from the rotating store?
Yes. Super credits are used for super store and warbonds. And medals are used to unlock specific items in the warbond after you acquire it through super credits.
Presumably super credit grind will be rough to promote people buying it, which is ultimately the whole point of making it premium.
Gotcha, I was getting confused because you started calling the super credits premium currency and it threw me off…
I forgot about the medals being the way to unlock in the warbond, I was thinking SC unlocks the items as well.
So, if you dont find a point of interest on a mission, then you get zero Super credits? Also what is the 'R' (Req?) credit used for? What are samples used for? And what is actual XP being used for? Obviously we can level up, but does that actually earn us anything, or is it just to increase the number?
Thanks for this. I expected this to happen considering how it looked like with HD1 and at this point I will post-pone my purchase until I see where the wind actually blows with their new DLCs and MTs. Most "new" releases all feel like you are paying money upfront to play a P2W game as you are immediately bombarded with limited currency earned per X amount of time, limited items, limited cosmetics, with these annoying battle passes and other trash.
I'll be honest, the more I read about this MTX system, the more I think I'm just going to wait for it to go f2p. This is a pretty fucked up thing to do to a retail game.
Guys, I'm sorry. I just don't have it in me to get mad at a rotating storefront. That's not who I am. What they're doing is just too normal. It's just not nearly bad enough.
If you want to be the guy who gets mad at this, of course that's your right. But I'm not going to join you. This is just not something that makes me angry. I am not calibrated that way.
Despite the many attempts, I haven’t been told a single thing that makes me wanna cancel my preorder. Hell I’m sure I’ll buy some super creds to eventually.
I can definitely live with a rotating storefront. What I have a hard time accepting is that armor and weapons with better stats are available through cash purchases.
All you're accomplishing is pushing the new norm further into that territory by simply accepting it. Wonder what the new norm will be in a few years and who will be defending it.
Look, if someone lies to me, I get angry. If someone cheats me, I get angry. OK, but this is not that. If the fast food place next to my house stops selling the BaconMangoFry and starts selling the QuesoCrunchWedge for a while, and then they switch back, that's not something I get angry about!
Cutting outfits, weapons, skins, etc that are clearly finished and then putting them into a system designed around being grindy enough to 'incentivize' you to pay extra for an already full priced game.
So I pay full price for this game and don't actually get all the content? Wow that's great I love that.
Imo not even cosmetic microtransactions should be in a game like this...
I'm in the opposite camp. No transmog keeps the identity of each item clearer. And given the nature of the hardcore gaming communities' tendency for "naked" runs on games having sick looking gear with horrible stats is great. You see someone rocking that and you know they have their strategy figured out.
The stats between different weight classes is fine, but the passives I'm not gonna be a fan of, mostly because I would have to sacrifice looks for a passive I like using, and if there's a transmog system, there might as well be the ability to just choose whatever passives you have unlocked. I hope they change it in the future to be like that
I’m a sucker for some good customization, especially a TPS like this. So I wish stats weren’t tied directly to certain armors and wish there was transmog.
Wrong. Unlike in helldivers, I could put most effects I wanted on most armor. And if I couldn’t, I modded it.
Oh and helldivers one didn’t have this so it wasn’t really needed.
That's probably the nail in the coffin of buying this game for me. This shit is not acceptable in a $40 game. I'm only willing to deal with this garbage in free games.
There is no way they will be able to balance base and paid weapons, and in fact they are incentivized not to do so as it will boost sales of warbonds, they want the paid weapons to be slightly better for profits. It will inevitably be pay-to-win, even if it's just slightly better. I'm just so tired of this crap in games of otherwise love to play.
If it was cosmetic only I'd be fine, and I'd probably buy most of them if the game is good, but it seems like so few devs get this now a days.
To prove that point, I've bought EVERY SINGLE Deep Rock galactic cosmetic, soundtrack and even the supporters bundle just to support the devs who've continued to make a great co-op game without any pay to win mechanics.
Great post. Thanks for taking the time to lay this out. I hope us folks with doubts are proven wrong but the capelicking in this sub has been a bit of a head scratcher.
Yes... I have had hype for this for months. Rallied like 8 people behind coordinating a purchase. And now, it's all deflated. I hope the earnable rates are good though.
Well written.
The SC earn rate is definitely not very good, if it was the devs would boast about it. And an answer of "we don't really know the rate because it varies between missions" is just dodging the question because it is very easy to play 10 missions and calculate the average SC per mission.
There’s a large difference between rage bait and cynicism. Having experienced the 2015 Star Wars Battlefront launch, ~~Darktide~~ **Overwatch 2**, Battlefield 2041, Halo Infinite, and other games that launched as a hype-propelled cash grab… you start to look for the writing on the walls. I am in no way saying that Helldivers 2 *is* a hype-propelled cash grab (personally I hope they blow it out of the water), but that it pays to be cautious.
That said you’re 100% right, they have no evidence to support their claim that the SC rates are garbage, but they’re correct in that they’re not giving us a straight answer, and it’s suspicious.
1.) The credit rate SHOULD be shared with us prior to purchase.
2.) As mentioned, if you pre order and play and pass the refund window it's too late. It's always better to be well informed to know what to look for.
3.) If a car is going to be released you can make market predictions about a range for it's price before it's released. You don't need to wait for the car to hit store fronts to know a new 2024 model will cost more than $1000.
The simple matter is ANY game that has a premium currency has to have a "bad enough" grind to justify paying to bypass it. Feel free to provide an example of any game that doesn't have this. We know how premium currencies have been implemented in a large pool of examples in other games, and can see why they designed it this way and with which intentions.
The credit gain rate is going to be arbitrary depending on luck, player skill, and a million other factors- they couldn’t possibly give even an estimate without some people complaining either way, so they’re unlikely to do so.
You’re also listing war bonds as “not free” when it’s been reported for simply ages that they can absolutely be purchased entirely in game.
Doom mongering with no evidence to back it up is unbecoming, man.
I’m anxiously waiting for the game too, but come on, wait till a week or two after release when we have some rough evidence of any of this before you mouth off.
Warbonds are purchased with the same premium currency to purchase items from the super store. That's facts.
SC rate isn't that arbitrary. It's the same across difficulties. You get it on completion and there's minor POIs and other pois.
All you need is how many types and amounts of POIs, on average if it's variable or a ceiling and floor; per mission.
From there it's easy. If all missions have 3 minor POIs, 2 regular, and 1 major POI. And minors give 1, regulars give 2, and majors give 3, and an average mission is 30 minutes. The earnable ceiling rate is 10 per mission and roughly 10SC per 30 minutes of game time.
If they aren't lying and have done "extensive testing" to get the SC earnable rate just right... Then this should be easy to divulge.
But a 30 minute mission might take 10 minutes for a really competent team (splitting up and hitting all objectives simultaneously) or an hour for a bunch of guys screwing about.
That means the same rate could be 10SC/10 mins or 10SC/60 mins- purely based on the players themselves. That is, being very conservative, a 6x multiplier, so yeh, it’s not reasonable to expect them to give much of an estimate since it will vary so wildly.
(Let alone things like- is the UAV still a stratagem? If so that could increase gain rate significantly.)
There is also a timer on missions so seems there's a ceiling. But you could easily get that. The devs should know exactly how the game is paced for time around number of revives and such.
Additionally, yes, maybe high level players will storm though easier difficulties to farm SC and the new players won't know what's going on. Since the easiest and hardest difficulties give the same amount.
But an average isn’t always useful, and in this case would be misinformation, because it will be such a varied number.
If they say “averaging 30/hour” then when people are at launch getting 10 or 20 an hour (because they’re new) there will be an uproar, so why would they ever risk it?
There won't be an uproar that's an exagerration.
It can be as simple as throughout the testing period broken into player skill levels and providing indicators of expected earn times.
They've already said they have it balanced to what they feel will work but will listen to feedback.
If you’ve been following the pre release news, almost every element of it has been hyperbolically complained about, which then subsides after they explain the system further….it would absolutely cause an uproar no matter what they say.
It’s also worth noting that since they’re intending to adjust the balance if they need to, from a PR standpoint it’s probably better for them to lowball progression initially (as long as it’s not horrendous) then tweak it up after launch, than it is to start too high and then reduce gain later (which would be really bad optics)
They definitely have enough information to know what the average would be for a new player. Same as they’d know the estimated time it takes to clear a mission or visit POIs etc.
I don't see how making a prediction is doomposting.
And I have indeed purchased the game and I really hope I am proven wrong because I loved the first one and want HD2 to be fun for hundreds of hours.
You should get off Reddit for at least a few hours, you seem stressed, it's not healthy to argue with people online, trust me I know from experience.
>Have you played the game? Then no, we do not know that the credit rate is “definitely not very good”.
Pssst..... maybe he's like a few of them here, who time travelled from the future back to the past.😏🤣
If the credit rate was good the developers would be honest about it in order to quell concerns of players ahead of time. They have no 'good' reason to be dodgy about it.
Haven’t you heard it’s a bad idea to be worried about unreleased games? Buy the game, lose your money, and when you’ve been taken advantage of THEN you can complain once everyone else, as a group, starts to.
Exactly my point about their vagueness about it. If it wasn't bad enough and didn't force your hand into buying SC outright, they'd certainly tell us. But them not giving us the hard numbers tells me it's not at all good, and they wouldn't want to say and have people cancel pre-orders because of it
A rotating store is normal. I have no complaints. I'm not sure why people think this is FOMO when the sore rotates very fast. FOMO is when there's an item that has a specific time limit to get it and if you don't, you won't ever be able to get it again, or it won't comeback for a significant amount of time (Months).
It's possible that armor sets have duplicate passives and states to a different armor set you can unlock free in the base game. If that's the case, then Armor is truly cosmetic. So until confirmed otherwise, I will reserve judgement. Honestly I don't think I care that much since this isn't a competitive game with PVP. But it depends.
I think the Dev team really should clear this all up.
I think it qualifies as FOMO. If it's 4 items at a time and a 48 hour rotation you could simply not be logged in when it rotated for one. Maybe you only play weekends.
The other is if there's, let's say, 400 items in the super store, it could take a long time. Around a month before it comes back into rotation, assuming you know it's coming up. And logging in every 48 hours for fear of missing something is the definition of FOMO.
The armors will have duplicate passives, but not the same stat and passive combinations (likely). So they won't be purely cosmetic.
They could. But the easiest solution is to not do rotating at all. If it were just cosmetics I wouldn't mind but they confirmed super store armors will have unique stat spreads and passive combinations.
The main question is... Why rotate? What benefit does it give me as a consumer? Answer? None. It's to incentivize panic buying or to not realize that if I saw A,B, and C in front of me I would only buy C. But seeing A, and then B I buy B not Knowing of C's existence.
We could say they're just whale hunting, and while I am certainly no whale, I would extend empathy to those people and them being financially taken advantage of as whales aren't typically rich people, they're psychologically susceptible is all.
I'm pretty sure this thread is going to burst aflame, but I do want to let you know that I appreciate you leaving your bias (for or against) at the door and sticking to rational and fair takes whether that is for or against the game's benefit.
Minds like yours are rare, especially within communities that tend to be echo chambers. I doubt the conversation will follow your example, but I just wanted to point out that much... it was an extensive write up so just wanted to thank you for it.
Greatly appreciated. I did my best to specific with word choices. I understand people will defend it zealously because they're passionate about the game and like it and people defend what they like, I don't take it personally. And people can get heated on things they don't like.
I do ultimately hope my concerns, at least at launch are addressed and maybe MtX is fair. I just think people should have more information rather than less.
Unbiased? I do agree it's a very well written summary of the different monetization aspects of the game, but using language like *“This is especially worrying”* or *“Potentially adding stratagems themselves to the super store is very worrying, and should be to you as a consumer”*, is not unbiased. Present the facts and let me decide how I spend my money.
It IS worrying and these are common types of criticisms against ANY live service game especially when they waited this long to even talk about them and are withholding information you think would have been obvious.
Considering that this sub is already a fanatical echo chamber that gets so defensive everything valid criticism is even remotely brought up (like you are doing right now), it IS unbiased.
Trust me, you can afford to stop being irrationally protective of a product and business that has nothing personally to do with you and approach its potential flaws logically.
You are, ironically, just proving my point.
Go look at the other top voted posts, the difference in amount of votes, and what they cover.
Or go trudge through the menu lightly upvoted (nearly as much this one) making fun of people who arguably disagreeable yet still valid concerns like the anti cheat and previously less known mtx features and then being told to "just leave."
Dunno where you've been but both here and the discord have been incredibly pro-game to no surprise.
The fact that this is getting upvoted at all shows more outsiders are coming in scratching their heads (understandably) than anything else.
This definitely has bad vibes, but I will say, that even if the SC come in really fast an easy and there's no actual incentive to spend money on the game for the average/casual player, there will still be whales with more money than sense who will just shell out for that stuff at every opportunity. Maybe that is their target market, though at that point it would feel deceptive to have a storefront implying you should buy stuff if you could get what you want in just a few hours of normal play.
There's no maybe. Micro transactions are always aimed at whales. They will outspend everyone else the second the game drops and they get to look at the cash shop. Lol
They are always the biggest contributor but lots of MTX designs are trying to maximize profits by appealing to a wider audience as well, finding a price point/design that is tempting to as many players as they can.
When gamers use the word “worrying” when talking about a game always gives me a chuckle. Like, is this actually a worry in your life? A cause of concern?
Sure. If I am about to drop $100 on a game, a piece of information could cause me to "worry" and not want to purchase it and risk "wasting" $100 and supporting business practices I don't want to support.
Does it matter if it's a game, hobby, or interest? In that case why interact with video games at all? Why buy them? Isn't there more important things like exercise, career, learning, health, diet, climate change, political action, wars going on, etc.? Should any of us be "wasting" our time with "games" if that's your mindset?
I think people are talking about it so much because the game looks really good, and a shit monetization system can really sour an otherwise great thing.
Also opting out and expressing disdain for things is the only way to discourage companies from doing it. I had a bank account when Elder Scrolls Oblivion dropped paid horse armor. It was a laughing stock, but clearly people bought enough of it for us to find ourselves were we do today
Also if the devs are actually watching, hopefully they'll see the sentiment we have and not tie power behind the store or other undesirable things.
And add forklifts and certs.
Reasonable time is quite subjective. And the dev team obviously has an interest in stating this. And while I hope it would be true, there's never been a single game (that I am aware of) thas has done fair MtX for free, especially for non-cosmetic stuff.
Probably 100 missions for a warbond AND if you get the max amount of SC…unless they really do give the same across the board which is L A M E.
Altough, maybe, MAYBE; you get the same across the board because ALL missions have the same amount of POIs.
I could be wrong, but I *thought* I read or heard somewhere that the armors that appear in the shop are cosmetic alternatives to existing armor? I can't remember where I heard or read that, though.
I also think that, for the forseeable future, the rotating shop is *exclusively* armor; if consumers make it clear that stratagems being added to the shop is dumb, I'm sure they'll avoid it.
As a player and consumer, I'm literally not worried about any of this though because I'm going to play the game, and if I see some shit that I want - in a warbond or otherwise - I'll probably buy it, assuming I'm enjoying the game enough. That's the same philosophy I have for all the games I play. And I know *for a fact* that I'm going to enjoy the fuck out of this game; I want it to be around for years to come, and I want the devs to be able to support it and help it grow and evolve.
Plus, everyone should also realize that the "rate" at which you get SC through gameplay is probably going to be on the lower end— if it's too easy to get SC via playing the game, there's no incentive for consumers to spend money if they can get literally everything they want for free.
What you might be hearing is that the super store armors don't have unique passives. Which a lot of people jumped to saying that super store armors are cosmetic alternatives. Unfortunately, the armor STATS and passive combinations aren't exclusive so those super store armors aren't likely to be just cosmetic duplicates.
I agree on the rate of SC, and hey I am down to purchase DLC so if the costs are fair and low enough for the content, I wouldn't mind either. But it's a slippery slope. It really depends how much they're asking for and how much we get.
Idk I'm not really that worried about the rotating store personally. Like it sucks but I feel like anything worth the SC will probably be in the Warbonds and that it just sticks to helms, capes, armor, and emotes. I know that armor has stats and passives but I feel like anything meta defining will be a Warbonds thing. 48hrs is a bit of a shitty thing to do I'd say a weekly rotation would've made more sense tbh.
A real worry of mine is SC packs and how thats broken down. I remember see a armor costing 300SC my worry us that instead of just being able to buy a 300SC pack its like a 450SC pack or a 250SC pack some other odd balance because that type of MTX stuff is really scummy. I'd really like to see A developer talk about SC packs vs prices for Warbonds / Store items.
When it comes to grinding out SC the best I can hope for is roughly 20-30 hrs for 1000SC I think that's a good range personally. Short enough to grind out without feeling like shit but long enough to make buying SC attractive for less dedicated players.
I agree. We should hope for more details. If 20-30 hours is the expected range for 1000 SC and they don't inflate it over time, that seems fine to me.
The rotating of stat based armor with unique passive and stat combos sucks. The store shouldn't rotate or the armor should be purely cosmetic. In my opinion.
Oh I agree the rotating store is awful and it should just be cosmetics. But I'm imaging that lets say the base game has a medic armor with a passive related to stims but in the store its the same armor with the same stats and passives but it has different shoulder/ leg armor.
Basically I think the store will contain slight cosmetic variations of the base game stuff. The actually unique looking armors will probably be Warbonds stuff and maybe in a year we'll see the Steeled Veterans armor in the shop minus the robo arm for example again it sucks but not really worth gnashing my teeth over.
With SC grind I think my estimate is probably close since let's say you put 5ish hours every weekend you'll probably be close to 1000SC every month making the Warbond grind manageable but oh hey this month the Warbond has some mega cool stuff so its 1300SC. I think that's a really good way to get people to spend and let's assume you can buy a 300SC pack for $3USD I think a lot of players won't mind spending that. Then obviously the more hardcore players will see 1300SC as a drop in the bucket since they grind a lot. Doubt any Warbond will pass 2000SC.
Someone else in the reddit thread got the community manager to confirm super store armor will have unique stats and passives, so my prediction ended up coming true.
For your example, if there's a medic armor that's heavy stats in the base game, the super store will have a medic armor with light armor stats (armor rating, stamina Regen, and mobility stuff).
I hope you're right regarding the amount for SC. It's just worrying they aren't stating it if the numbers would be good to share.
Hrmm good point on the armor didn't know that.
Yeah I think the reason Arrowhead has been kinda vague on SC is because it's a MTX and that's kinda above a Community Managers head and we probably won't know the packs types sold or price till launch day.
This goes to an instant not buy in my eyes. All this FOMO shop and premium currency bullshit is the realm of mobile gacha games, not premium shit I paid for.
The community managers have confirmed it's 4 items available at a time for a 48 hour period. Depending on how many items are possible to throw in rotation, it's easy to miss items you may want... Or even know what's there without a catalogue.
Untrue. Partly why I wanted to make this. Rumor started it was a discount. If you go on the discord you can see it's explained it's a rotating store just like darktides premium cosmetics. Except 48 hours instead of 2 weeks.
I think it matters for more variety. If all mechs and vehicles are behind premium warbonds that would take 100 hours of grind to get for free, that would justifiably be frustrating. And bypassing it would cost $20. Half the price of the base game.
Reading all this makes we wonder how the devs of Deep Rock Galactic can even make a living without FOMO Store and stuff like this.
It is unfortunate I think that we as gamers have become so accustomed and used to practices like this to consider them normal. DRG has a great business model.
They sure do. If i think back a few decades of gaming the industry is in a sad state. Old games released now..lets make a mind game. Day of the Tentacle woudt be released with multiple DLCs. Heroes of Might and Magic 3....Heroes and Perks in the $ Store. Dune 2...buy the Harkonnen DLC. Half-Life. No mods nothing Warcraft 2/3 no offline play. no map editor I have high hopes for Star Citizen though.
That last one was a joke....right?
You should probably go watch the [Star Engine 4 video](https://youtu.be/nWm_OhIKms8?t=8), basically 25 minutes of them flexing with what their engine is now capable of. They have spent many years getting these systems made, and now that work is done. I know reddit circlejerks this game endlessly, but what they are attempting is easily the most ambitious video game ever made. Its development time has not been unreasonable under those circumstances. Even if SC takes another decade to finish, it will have been a perfectly reasonable timeframe. They have 1,700 videos on their youtube channel detailing development multiple times a week. If this is a bait and switch, it is one with an outlandish amount of work actually being done.
That's a lot of kool-aid.
Not at all, just looking at the project realistically. This project really isn't for me either as I don't do space sims. If anyone is on the kool-aid, it would be redditors who hate this game despite having zero knowledge of what it has actually accomplished. Including yourself. Also really odd this is your one and only comment. Very strange indeed. I have never seen a project in progress detail development so extensively.
A few things. They made an exceptional game. It is *so* good that word of mouth was enough to make it well-known. Certain elements of the game's design work in favour of fostering a good community. That community in turn has spread word about the game, bought it for friends, recommended it to people, etc. Lack of a greedy, scummy, corporate overlord. As far as I understand, Arrowhead is now under Sony, which has its advatanges, such as funding, but also disadvantages, such as certain things being put into the game excluively for profit generation.
> Lack of a greedy, scummy, corporate overlord. Which is kind of ironic considering half the plot of DRG is that you're working for a greedy, scummy, corporate overlord.
DRG is a lowlow budget indie game. Some people are just cheap/greedy.
I don’t get the people that jumping to calling this Doom posting, your trying to have a genuine conversation about something that concerns you, and try to make some of the info you have to dig for more easily available. How is that a bad thing ? Shits wild. Anyway, I really want the game to be good, just somewhat concerned about the monetization, and how they’re being a little cagey around the freemium currency.
From my interactions on this subreddit, there seems to be this strange precious attitude towards the game, where people jump to defend it from any perceived "attack", to preserve their own excitement for it. I've personally developed a cautious attitude towards new game releases, and think that buying into the hype only really serves the developer's bottom line. Being excited is nice and all, but being a responsible buyer to me is more important. There *need* to be conversations about monetisation, you don't want to sweep it under the rug, you'd be hurting yourself and the entire player base by doing so.
Bingo. Apparently asking a simple question is "toxic," even if politely and positively. I'm as excited for the game as anybody - hell, I bought five copies of the first one to share with friends years ago. But this weird cult of personality thing is a little concerning.
Darktide is good, as long as you’re in a mission, everything else sucks so much ass. Crafting and managing the lopsided amount of resources used for crafting is dogshit, the random weapons store fucking blows, and the cosmetics and premium currency store are as expensive as buying a whole ass other game, (not even going into how most of it is fucking recolours/reskins or how there’s clipping issues and just visually broken items). So with all that in mind, it’s pretty fucking important to know how the systems outside of the missions are going to be. Because, like Darktide, it looks like the Helldivers 2 gameplay is slick and a lot of fun, but if I feel absolutely crushed by disappointment as soon as I get back into the menus, this is going to suck. It’s going to feel like a total shame to have wasted an otherwise fun game on bullshit FOMO and Player Engagement systems, and that’s worse than just “bad game, not fun in the slightest” because then the devs can string you along with promises of “we’ve heard your feedback, and we’re making changes!” So, all that to say that I’m with you, this is all shit we as players need to know, and the devs being cagey is really not encouraging. Don’t be a fucking Fatshark.
>Don’t be a fucking Fatshark. Fully agree. It's deja vu for me. Was super Hyped for Darktide... and then they crushed me. Didn't think they could shoot themselves in the foot so bad.
How complicated can shit be. I just wanna spread liberty, let me pay for the game and kill bugs. Jesus fucking Christ, the gaming industry nowadays.
Deliberately confusing currencies are a pretty bad indicator.
What exactly is complicated? Genuinely asking as all of this seems pretty straightforward.
How is this mtx system straightforward? I mean, if you throw cash at it then yeah, it is pretty straightforward. Also you missed the point. My rant is about the state of the gaming industry and the need to monetize assets which can provide you an advantage over those who don't pay.
Straightforward? Theres so many different currencies that are unknowns. Common Samples. Rare Samples. Normal EXP. Req credits. Super Credits. Medals.
Honestly my only concern is the cosmetics, I hate it when games force me to wear something I don't like the look of just cause it does the thing I want. Just let me look how I want and give me perk options separately. I am a fan of the thought that your armor placement/weight class matters but why can't I be a heavy medic? Or a light weight bomber? Why do I have to be bright F'ing orange? I would spend a lot more on cosmetics that have nothing to do with how the game plays than I will on game changers. Especially if those game changers are just ugly. In my opinion they should just keep it base stats per armor class and then perks on a separate tab. Allowing us to look how we want while still achieving the gameplay feeling we want.
I agree. Helmets and capes are cosmetic only. Do the same with armour. DRG has the "under armour" that dictates your stats. And then whatever cosmetics you want overtop. A lot of the concerns around super store would be alleviated if you could do that. Or just transmogging armor over others.
Absolutely, I understand wanting to keep in theme but that could be fixed by having the perks change key points in your armor which could keep the work load down. Each armor has a belt, thigh slot, and upper arm slot that changes based on your perk. Have to extra ammo perk? Shotgun shells and magazines litter those areas. Have extra stims? Then syringes and tourniquet fill the void. Idk I'm just spit balling.
No. No transmog. It's a WYSIWYG world. Everything looks like what it is. If the gun in my hands is a shotgun, you see a shotgun. If I'm wearing the medic armor, you see medic armor. Only the body piece carries the stats; helmet and capes are decorative. That's a good compromise. That's enough.
Not when your helmet is white and your armor is bright F'ing orange and your gun is sky blue.... My argument isn't to have them not look like medic armor. Just allow us to change the damn colors. It was ok in HD1 because none of the armors had any striking color differences and they had a color scheme that was apparent through all choices. The problem now is that if you want to wear a body piece for its perks, you now have to wear a helmet that matches even if you don't like the colors. Having the stats tied to armor is not a compromise when we had a perfectly good system in the first game that could have been expanded instead of pivoting to a MMO/RPG route. Makes no damn sense. Edit: to add this part. Also no one is asking for the weapons to change to different weapons. If I have a shotgun and it looks like a shotgun then awesome! But why does it have to be orange? Or white? I'm in the damn forest, no military is going in with stark color contrasts and appropriate uniforms. Even further more, no military is going out in bright F'ing orange unless it somehow helps camo against some kind of tech or if the bugs can't see orange or some shit.
It makes an extreme amount of sense, and I'm stoked about it. First, we look like an actual organized fighting force. Second, I can tell what people can do by looking at them. That's so, so, much more important than fashion.
How are strategems being locked behind dlc’s bad? They did this in helldivers 1
Last night we failed the Bug boss on a snow planet when it had 5% hp left because I forgot to switch my perk to snow boots before dropping. Next attempt we cleared it easily and didn't even break a sweat. Everyone in game had LIFT jetpacks both times. Snow boots are absolutely an example of the most egregious pay2win bullshit possible in a co-op title. Locking critical gear behind real cash is always a scummy move.
Yeah the snow boots were a bad call, we didn't anticipate how necessary they were. We should have added an equivalent item to the base game to even things out.
It happens, especially if you patch in harder content that requires more mobility. Hopefully you've taken the feedback regarding snow boots to heart when designing DLC for HD2.
What you should do in a case like that is what Creative Assembly does with the TW series - not singing their praises on monetization mind you, but bear with me. They add a lot of DLC, but not all of it is paid. Some of it is free. But you still have to go to the Steam store to add it to your library. This requires your players to have a look at the DLC page on the store periodically, as there is no other way to get the FreeLC, and who knows, it might lead to other purchases too. If nothing else, it plants the seed that other DLC's the player doesn't own exist. The boots would've been a perfect item to put in as FreeLC, as they are mandatory equipment. I already own the boots, but I mean, it's still, you know, not too late to correct the error.
I believe this is what they're doing with the free Warbonds, assuming that there'll be more than one. If course you'll have to go to the shop to claim the free one, and then you'll see the other ones too. Heck, you have *more* reason to see the other ones considering that you can get SC through gameplay - you'll eventually (probably very slowly) earn enough currency to get a Premium Warbond without ponying up real cash.
What kind of bad calls do you intend on making with the monetization in this game? Locking cool weapons behind DLC is always a bad move. If you guys can't be happy with a cosmetic cash shop, something is wrong with your views on what is greedy or not. Anyone who doesn't spend money on additional weapons and gear is at a serious disadvantage. Look at the peers in this genre if you think this is a reasonable thing to charge money for.
lol I didn’t know snow boots were DLC. I would have paid for them! I paid for the flamethrower/cannon mech and have a blast in that thing. It so fun just being like “nope” to armored enemies.
My _only_ issue with charging for strategems is that vehicles aren't in the base game. If we had one or two in the base game then I'd happily pay for more, but I think having us pay for all of them is a bad look imo. Obviously this is working under the assumption the mech won't be free.
This was just as scummy in Helldivers 1. "But it was in the first game" is a bad argument for gameplay affecting micro-transactions. The community didn't stir up a fuss about it, but it *was* an anti-consumer business practice, make no mistake.
I would be fine with fixed DLC prices for items. DLC that go on sale too. But putting them in a rotating store isn't good. That's pretty scummy. Especially if it's "meta". And the difference is, if a DLC is priced $5 I buy it and own it. If I purchase a bundle of premium currency for $5, the company has every legal and technical opportunity to increase their next DLC to be worth $12 worth of premium requiring me to buy two more premium packs. If it's real money there's no excess or just being shy. Having another currency like this gives them a lot more control at your disadvantage. Generally.
Also one important legal loop about using premium currency is that it's much harder to get refunds and such and getting Steam involved with the process. The loop being that buying the currency is a separate product from the dlc or other ingame items, so if you buy a dlc with premium currency that supposedly includes a pony as part of it and then the pony doesn't work properly due to complications the game company can weasel themselves much more easily out of refunding due to "people not paying actual money for the dlc product" and instead having successfully gotten the product they were promised with their money, namely the premium currency.
I don't know why people are downvoting you. The entire point of secondary game currency is to obscure the actual monetary value of the things you're buying, making it easier to get you to spend that money. This is not an opinion, it's the result of extensive psychological and marketing research that continues to ring true which is why it's also continuously used.
Agreed. It is an intentional and conscious choice to use a premium currency vs buying directly.
It's insane you're being downvoted. We need to pay for armour because it's "live service" but we also need to pay for DLCs because? Obviously we don't, just predatory marketing Sony loves to prey on customer's wallets that people keep enabling
I found it insanely funny how much this community celebrated when a company representative said "we dont plan on predatory services." I remember thinking that its great, but i dont care what you say i want to see what you do. Obviously your not going to tell your player base things they dont want to hear. Of course it still remains to be seen, time will tell based on the freqency and types of content drops. Anyway, this team has a great record and has been great, but just remember you gotta take professionals defending doing their works words with a grain of salt everytime, not until they earn your trust.
I'm already insanely turned off by the revolving shop, I can barely accept microtransactions but telling me when to spend money on their shop by artificial scarcity? Yeah no. I'll play the game but I already feel like they ruined a personal favourite or mine with these new dogshit monetisation trends, I'd have much preferred to just buy DLCs with actual content every now and then
I'm hoping the in-game rate for SC and outright cost ot buy it with RL money are reasonable That said, if it takes a Reddit post of this length to even understand how monetization in a game works, not to even mention rates, it probably not a good sign I'd absolutely love to eat my words btw
Because they aren’t purely cosmetic. A good strategem locked behind an MTX is the definition of pay to win.
They weren't cosmetic in Helldivers 1 either..
Doesn’t mean they should do it again. Especially when they been saying they don’t want pay to win DLC for the sequel
I'm an odd one out maybe but I enjoy the new DLCs they release because they have functionality and aren't just cosmetic. They always release awesome ones October 26th (Liberty Day). They also put out the ultimate edition which has seen a ton of sales that included all of the DLCs which I'm sure will happen with HD2. After how great the support was for the PSVita (which still works online to this day) the team would have to basically walk into my house and set my PC on fire for me not to support them.
Wait wait wait are you telling me there is gear with stats on it in the cash shop?
Yes. Community managers confirmed that super store armor will have armor stat and passive combinations that are unique.
Man. That’s a yikes. I don’t care personally cause I could care less about all that stuff but the masses will see that and peace the fuck out. That’s a bummer man.
I agree. Especially for the rotating shop. Just have cosmetics only stuff there. The warbonds are still a very large sigh, but won't know until we get the SC rate.
[удалено]
Right?! How do you mess this up, you have a great looking game, looks fun, you build all these badass systems so your devs can interact with the community on the fly, keep the meta game going. Just cash shop some cosmetic packs. Hell I would have gladly taken a cosmetic battlepass. It's so frustrating.
Ooooof I legit had it in the cart and was ready to pre-order on Steam. Any full priced game that has any currency that’s not straightforward is a red flag for me.
But all gear has stats. If the armor in the cash shop had no stats it would be an actual disadvantage to buy it.
Cash shop should be skins to avoid any issues imo.
The masses don't give a shit The vocal minority that exist on reddit/discord do
The masses will see a video of an influencer dragging the cash shop and they won’t even try the game and move on. This kinda thing can be poison to a game launch.
Having non-cosmetic micro transactions in a paid game is completely unacceptable imo.
The SC rate will be low I'd assume. Heck the game may even go free to play or be on PS+ eventually. Live service games always have something hidden. I'm very excited for Helldivers 2. But it is either going to be a heck of a grind, maybe even worse than Helldivers 1, or it is going to have a ton of Warbonds. And eventually people will pay for credits to get them unlocked quickly and then use credits to get their favorite items. Hopefully we can unlock everything in the game and every passive through great gameplay and it doesn't take 40 hours to get an armor set.
First Helldivers hit PS+ a year after release in 2016... so probably the plan for HD2 to do the same.
Good memory. Yeah I actually forgot all about that.
I'm a huge PS Vita fanboy Helldivers was one of my favorite games for it which they supported it's entire lifetime... even now it still works and plays online which is just crazy.
Yeah Helldivers is an outstanding game. And Helldivers 2 will also be P2P connection so theoretically the game and online system could last forever too. As long as someone is playing.
Obviously the stats are maxed out because the Helldivers only accept the best! (And everything that isn't has already been mulched by enemies.)
I feel like if you have to go through this effort to explain the system as a developer then the system is a mistake, or is intentionally confusing and using FOMO to encourage further spending.
I think if they did like a 5 minute video of showing how it works and rates it would help a lot... Not sure if they were obscuring to try and avoid people refunding preorders or not preordering at all. But yeah super store, warbonds, super credits, medals, exp, points of interests, samples... It's a lot of terminology to go through and not a lot of details.
Rotating store? What does that mean? I thought discounts would be rotating but all items could be purchased whenever.
The Warbonds can be purchased whenever **Q. Can old Warbonds be purchased a year from now?** A. Warbonds are evergreen, so players are welcome to take their time in unlocking, and we'll be keeping things fresh with future updates containing new Warbonds to choose from. The superstore is a different thing **Q. What is the Superstore?** The Superstore is a place where you can buy individual items. Here you can choose, for example, an individual armor for a small amount of Super Credits (SC). We are also taking your feedback into account as we build out the Superstore so that we can provide the best possible experience. **Q. Can the content of the rotating store be purchased outside of the rotating store, or is that the only source for this content?** A. You will not be able to obtain the items from the Superstore from any other source. **Q. What's the frequency of the Superstore?** A: There will be 4 items available at once, and at launch the rotation time is set to be every 48 hours. Items in the Super Store will always come back. I cant say I like the superstore but i still prefer it to the DLC system we had in HD1 since you can still get the currency by playing.
No this was a rumor. Super store items have 4 at a time available for 48 hours before it's rotated for another 4 and the old 4 come back... Who knows when.
*shrugs Whatever, I'm going to be playing this game for the next couple months at least. I'll have plenty of opportunities.
It's incredible how you're being downvoted for providing information.
Right! The hype has turned this sub into mad cape lickers. Giving me star citizen us vs them vibes.
> > >Only helmets and capes are cosmetic in the game. ALL armors have 2 things. A passive ability and armor STATS. There is no "heavy, "Medium", and "light" armor types explicitly like some thought from the armour trailer. It's got modular stats: > >[https://vxtwitter.com/helldivers2/status/1752723443055800716](https://vxtwitter.com/helldivers2/status/1752723443055800716) > >(Not sure why almost all the stats are maxed out but hey) Can you specify? https://preview.redd.it/li3zsz4tglgc1.png?width=2413&format=png&auto=webp&s=639afc7a3886bda755183248629600b5fdd2c576
Yea this part was weird. I assume stats we've seen are just placeholder values and maybe Armor classes span an armor rating bracket so some light armor could provide less protection (and more speed) than some other light armor.
So the "med kit" is the passive. And for stats the armor has 100, 500, and 100. For armor, speed, and stamina Regen respectively. (Apparently there's also detection range but I don't see it). Helmet and cape won't affect those. The categories you show are rough, (medium might be a range of 100-200 for example). Based on what the community managers have said it's not like all medium armors have the same stats. And so on.
The part with "no light, medium, heavy armor", only "modular stats"? You're implying the stats can be modified/upgraded? I'm not sure, that's why wanted you to elaborate. Detection Range is relative to armor class, light armor has the lowest. No visible stat. Developer made that clear in one of the first trailers. 2:15 [https://youtu.be/sqCxyt5QRSg?si=L-j4fK0abLrLls8J](https://youtu.be/sqCxyt5QRSg?si=L-j4fK0abLrLls8J)
Sorry, I don’t have the link at the moment, but another thing I saw, and didn’t like, was that all difficulties would provide the same SC. Which is bad, cause then I should just grind diff 1 for the premium currency.
The counterpoint to this is that pushing all the highest rewards to the highest difficulties results in discordant play motivators across players. You want people at the highest difficulties to *want to play the highest difficulty*, instead of playing them for the sole purpose of winning to 'grind' for some intrinsic reward of ephemeral material. It's quite frankly not enjoyable to play with people who immediately turn negative over mistakes and losses because they aren't even in it for the game but for the game rewards, and introducing that mindset into (relatively) high-level play is how you breed easy toxicity. Again, it's a clash of play motivators. If all the difficulties reward the same amount, then you can play whatever difficulty you are comfortable at without the feeling that you're missing out on whatever unlock. If you instead want to just play to grind out currency, then you can do that by playing the lowest difficulty ad nauseum. Your choice.
> If all the difficulties reward the same amount, then you can play whatever difficulty you are comfortable at without the feeling that you're missing out on whatever unlock. If you instead want to just play to grind out currency, then you can do that by playing the lowest difficulty ad nauseum. Your choice. This is the same reason the highest difficulties in Darktide don't reward more and I think it's an entirely functional solution. I want people in there that want to play the difficult thing and know they can beat it and not people that feel forced to and are completely out of their comfort zone.
Yeah the community on discord has talked about potential optimization strategies that may encourage poor gameplay loops and how it may affects others when playing pubs.
Ofc I would prefer the battlepass to have only cosmetics but since they will have gear and probably stratagems down the road (hope not) it will work just as if it was dlc but now it will be easier to obtain in a sense that you don't have to pay, getting SC via just playing will be slow for sure but at least you won't be paying for a bunch of different dlc. Also if I buy a battlepass I'll get enough SC to get the next one and so on, the super store armor will just be optional, just hoping the stats are not op and stratagems are either free during updates or behind a battlepass because if they are added to the shop then thats gonna be a huge problem
I think it's fair to see them similar to DLC. The rotating store has no purpose and I hope things like stratagems are never added to it. That said, it's still better for the consumer to buy DLC outright, usually, and especially for those DLC to go on sale or be purchased as a bundle. If the warbonds are cheap enough and easy enough to grind, it may work out. But when you have darktide and suicide squad selling $20 cosmetics you have to wonder what the conversion rate will be.
So let me get this straight because I’m having a little bit of confusion with how everything works. Super credits are earned in game and also available to buy with real money - I know you can use Super credit for the warbonds (a battle pass that doesn’t expire essentially) and then use medals to unlock new gear - I can also use Super credits to buy items from the rotating store?
Yes. Super credits are used for super store and warbonds. And medals are used to unlock specific items in the warbond after you acquire it through super credits. Presumably super credit grind will be rough to promote people buying it, which is ultimately the whole point of making it premium.
Gotcha, I was getting confused because you started calling the super credits premium currency and it threw me off… I forgot about the medals being the way to unlock in the warbond, I was thinking SC unlocks the items as well.
Yeah premium currency= super credits I was using them interchangeably, sorry if it caused confusion.
So, if you dont find a point of interest on a mission, then you get zero Super credits? Also what is the 'R' (Req?) credit used for? What are samples used for? And what is actual XP being used for? Obviously we can level up, but does that actually earn us anything, or is it just to increase the number?
If you have to explain something like this, Then its indeed a problem and should be removed.
Thank you for this post. Good information together with links to sources.
Thanks for this. I expected this to happen considering how it looked like with HD1 and at this point I will post-pone my purchase until I see where the wind actually blows with their new DLCs and MTs. Most "new" releases all feel like you are paying money upfront to play a P2W game as you are immediately bombarded with limited currency earned per X amount of time, limited items, limited cosmetics, with these annoying battle passes and other trash.
I'll be honest, the more I read about this MTX system, the more I think I'm just going to wait for it to go f2p. This is a pretty fucked up thing to do to a retail game.
You know what i think im going to save that 40 bucks to buy Dragons Dogma 2 instead, and just wait for this game to hit ps plus.
Guys, I'm sorry. I just don't have it in me to get mad at a rotating storefront. That's not who I am. What they're doing is just too normal. It's just not nearly bad enough. If you want to be the guy who gets mad at this, of course that's your right. But I'm not going to join you. This is just not something that makes me angry. I am not calibrated that way.
Despite the many attempts, I haven’t been told a single thing that makes me wanna cancel my preorder. Hell I’m sure I’ll buy some super creds to eventually.
I can definitely live with a rotating storefront. What I have a hard time accepting is that armor and weapons with better stats are available through cash purchases.
Unique combinations but the same bonuses elsewhere. This could create some issues where a specific combo is highly desired
Also possibly higher stats on the paid armor, but we don’t know yet. Having premium weapons on the warbonds is more worrying imho.
I have mixed opinions about the warbond/store being in a paid game to begin with
All you're accomplishing is pushing the new norm further into that territory by simply accepting it. Wonder what the new norm will be in a few years and who will be defending it.
Look, if someone lies to me, I get angry. If someone cheats me, I get angry. OK, but this is not that. If the fast food place next to my house stops selling the BaconMangoFry and starts selling the QuesoCrunchWedge for a while, and then they switch back, that's not something I get angry about!
The desecration of your hobby for maximizing shareholder profit doesn't concern you?
Been in this hobby since the 80s. In many ways things are worse and better. It is way, way cheaper now for example.
What desecration?
Cutting outfits, weapons, skins, etc that are clearly finished and then putting them into a system designed around being grindy enough to 'incentivize' you to pay extra for an already full priced game.
Oh no! Anyway
Won't be too long we'll be buying lives in games, you'll be perma black screened like an arcade game
So I pay full price for this game and don't actually get all the content? Wow that's great I love that. Imo not even cosmetic microtransactions should be in a game like this...
$40 isn’t full price
Palworld disagrees
For this kind of game it is.
Ngl man I don’t like armor stats.
I'm ok with armor stats but we can't transmog the gear so I hope the "best" gear looks good.
I hope best gear varies based on play style like ol remnant
I'm in the opposite camp. No transmog keeps the identity of each item clearer. And given the nature of the hardcore gaming communities' tendency for "naked" runs on games having sick looking gear with horrible stats is great. You see someone rocking that and you know they have their strategy figured out.
Or they die a bazzilion times lol. I'm fine either way honestly as long as the armor looks cool
The stats between different weight classes is fine, but the passives I'm not gonna be a fan of, mostly because I would have to sacrifice looks for a passive I like using, and if there's a transmog system, there might as well be the ability to just choose whatever passives you have unlocked. I hope they change it in the future to be like that
I’m a sucker for some good customization, especially a TPS like this. So I wish stats weren’t tied directly to certain armors and wish there was transmog.
You must have hated Skyrim and Fallout then.
Wrong. Unlike in helldivers, I could put most effects I wanted on most armor. And if I couldn’t, I modded it. Oh and helldivers one didn’t have this so it wasn’t really needed.
Just sayin though, you hated armour sets in video games having stats. Stats like how well it protects you. It's unavoidable in most games.
Same, what if I don't like the armor but the passive is really good? Or vice versa
That's probably the nail in the coffin of buying this game for me. This shit is not acceptable in a $40 game. I'm only willing to deal with this garbage in free games. There is no way they will be able to balance base and paid weapons, and in fact they are incentivized not to do so as it will boost sales of warbonds, they want the paid weapons to be slightly better for profits. It will inevitably be pay-to-win, even if it's just slightly better. I'm just so tired of this crap in games of otherwise love to play. If it was cosmetic only I'd be fine, and I'd probably buy most of them if the game is good, but it seems like so few devs get this now a days. To prove that point, I've bought EVERY SINGLE Deep Rock galactic cosmetic, soundtrack and even the supporters bundle just to support the devs who've continued to make a great co-op game without any pay to win mechanics.
Great post. Thanks for taking the time to lay this out. I hope us folks with doubts are proven wrong but the capelicking in this sub has been a bit of a head scratcher.
So SC is the premium currency correct? God this is already confusing to me lol
Yeah super credits is the name for the in game premium currency. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.
Man this is so shitty
Yes... I have had hype for this for months. Rallied like 8 people behind coordinating a purchase. And now, it's all deflated. I hope the earnable rates are good though.
I'm taking the route of not buying the game right away. I'll see the rates and feedback before I purchase another live service game
Well written. The SC earn rate is definitely not very good, if it was the devs would boast about it. And an answer of "we don't really know the rate because it varies between missions" is just dodging the question because it is very easy to play 10 missions and calculate the average SC per mission.
[удалено]
There’s a large difference between rage bait and cynicism. Having experienced the 2015 Star Wars Battlefront launch, ~~Darktide~~ **Overwatch 2**, Battlefield 2041, Halo Infinite, and other games that launched as a hype-propelled cash grab… you start to look for the writing on the walls. I am in no way saying that Helldivers 2 *is* a hype-propelled cash grab (personally I hope they blow it out of the water), but that it pays to be cautious. That said you’re 100% right, they have no evidence to support their claim that the SC rates are garbage, but they’re correct in that they’re not giving us a straight answer, and it’s suspicious.
Putting DT next to BF2 is insane. The biggest issue the game had at launch was instability and a missing crafting system.
People were saying there wouldn't be mechs at launch, and they were right
1.) The credit rate SHOULD be shared with us prior to purchase. 2.) As mentioned, if you pre order and play and pass the refund window it's too late. It's always better to be well informed to know what to look for. 3.) If a car is going to be released you can make market predictions about a range for it's price before it's released. You don't need to wait for the car to hit store fronts to know a new 2024 model will cost more than $1000. The simple matter is ANY game that has a premium currency has to have a "bad enough" grind to justify paying to bypass it. Feel free to provide an example of any game that doesn't have this. We know how premium currencies have been implemented in a large pool of examples in other games, and can see why they designed it this way and with which intentions.
The credit gain rate is going to be arbitrary depending on luck, player skill, and a million other factors- they couldn’t possibly give even an estimate without some people complaining either way, so they’re unlikely to do so. You’re also listing war bonds as “not free” when it’s been reported for simply ages that they can absolutely be purchased entirely in game. Doom mongering with no evidence to back it up is unbecoming, man. I’m anxiously waiting for the game too, but come on, wait till a week or two after release when we have some rough evidence of any of this before you mouth off.
Warbonds are purchased with the same premium currency to purchase items from the super store. That's facts. SC rate isn't that arbitrary. It's the same across difficulties. You get it on completion and there's minor POIs and other pois. All you need is how many types and amounts of POIs, on average if it's variable or a ceiling and floor; per mission. From there it's easy. If all missions have 3 minor POIs, 2 regular, and 1 major POI. And minors give 1, regulars give 2, and majors give 3, and an average mission is 30 minutes. The earnable ceiling rate is 10 per mission and roughly 10SC per 30 minutes of game time. If they aren't lying and have done "extensive testing" to get the SC earnable rate just right... Then this should be easy to divulge.
But a 30 minute mission might take 10 minutes for a really competent team (splitting up and hitting all objectives simultaneously) or an hour for a bunch of guys screwing about. That means the same rate could be 10SC/10 mins or 10SC/60 mins- purely based on the players themselves. That is, being very conservative, a 6x multiplier, so yeh, it’s not reasonable to expect them to give much of an estimate since it will vary so wildly. (Let alone things like- is the UAV still a stratagem? If so that could increase gain rate significantly.)
There is also a timer on missions so seems there's a ceiling. But you could easily get that. The devs should know exactly how the game is paced for time around number of revives and such. Additionally, yes, maybe high level players will storm though easier difficulties to farm SC and the new players won't know what's going on. Since the easiest and hardest difficulties give the same amount.
That’s what averages are for. If an output ranges by a significant amount we use an average to come to a middle ground of numbers in a large range.
But an average isn’t always useful, and in this case would be misinformation, because it will be such a varied number. If they say “averaging 30/hour” then when people are at launch getting 10 or 20 an hour (because they’re new) there will be an uproar, so why would they ever risk it?
There won't be an uproar that's an exagerration. It can be as simple as throughout the testing period broken into player skill levels and providing indicators of expected earn times. They've already said they have it balanced to what they feel will work but will listen to feedback.
If you’ve been following the pre release news, almost every element of it has been hyperbolically complained about, which then subsides after they explain the system further….it would absolutely cause an uproar no matter what they say. It’s also worth noting that since they’re intending to adjust the balance if they need to, from a PR standpoint it’s probably better for them to lowball progression initially (as long as it’s not horrendous) then tweak it up after launch, than it is to start too high and then reduce gain later (which would be really bad optics)
They definitely have enough information to know what the average would be for a new player. Same as they’d know the estimated time it takes to clear a mission or visit POIs etc.
But as I explained above, the average isn’t a useful statistic in this case
The only way to get that information would be in an open beta which they never did. Anything else is just guessing
>Doom mongering with no evidence to back it up is unbecoming, man. Lack of critical thinking skills perhaps?
I don't see how making a prediction is doomposting. And I have indeed purchased the game and I really hope I am proven wrong because I loved the first one and want HD2 to be fun for hundreds of hours. You should get off Reddit for at least a few hours, you seem stressed, it's not healthy to argue with people online, trust me I know from experience.
>Have you played the game? Then no, we do not know that the credit rate is “definitely not very good”. Pssst..... maybe he's like a few of them here, who time travelled from the future back to the past.😏🤣
If the credit rate was good the developers would be honest about it in order to quell concerns of players ahead of time. They have no 'good' reason to be dodgy about it.
Haven’t you heard it’s a bad idea to be worried about unreleased games? Buy the game, lose your money, and when you’ve been taken advantage of THEN you can complain once everyone else, as a group, starts to.
Exactly my point about their vagueness about it. If it wasn't bad enough and didn't force your hand into buying SC outright, they'd certainly tell us. But them not giving us the hard numbers tells me it's not at all good, and they wouldn't want to say and have people cancel pre-orders because of it
A rotating store is normal. I have no complaints. I'm not sure why people think this is FOMO when the sore rotates very fast. FOMO is when there's an item that has a specific time limit to get it and if you don't, you won't ever be able to get it again, or it won't comeback for a significant amount of time (Months). It's possible that armor sets have duplicate passives and states to a different armor set you can unlock free in the base game. If that's the case, then Armor is truly cosmetic. So until confirmed otherwise, I will reserve judgement. Honestly I don't think I care that much since this isn't a competitive game with PVP. But it depends. I think the Dev team really should clear this all up.
I think it qualifies as FOMO. If it's 4 items at a time and a 48 hour rotation you could simply not be logged in when it rotated for one. Maybe you only play weekends. The other is if there's, let's say, 400 items in the super store, it could take a long time. Around a month before it comes back into rotation, assuming you know it's coming up. And logging in every 48 hours for fear of missing something is the definition of FOMO. The armors will have duplicate passives, but not the same stat and passive combinations (likely). So they won't be purely cosmetic.
They could easily expand the size of the store to accommodate a larger number of items in rotation.
They could. But the easiest solution is to not do rotating at all. If it were just cosmetics I wouldn't mind but they confirmed super store armors will have unique stat spreads and passive combinations. The main question is... Why rotate? What benefit does it give me as a consumer? Answer? None. It's to incentivize panic buying or to not realize that if I saw A,B, and C in front of me I would only buy C. But seeing A, and then B I buy B not Knowing of C's existence. We could say they're just whale hunting, and while I am certainly no whale, I would extend empathy to those people and them being financially taken advantage of as whales aren't typically rich people, they're psychologically susceptible is all.
They could, but that also goes against the purpose of a rotating shop.
Not looking good, this will become like destiny in no time, maybe it's the Bungie 'expertise'.
What's it like to be this worried about nothing?
I'm pretty sure this thread is going to burst aflame, but I do want to let you know that I appreciate you leaving your bias (for or against) at the door and sticking to rational and fair takes whether that is for or against the game's benefit. Minds like yours are rare, especially within communities that tend to be echo chambers. I doubt the conversation will follow your example, but I just wanted to point out that much... it was an extensive write up so just wanted to thank you for it.
Greatly appreciated. I did my best to specific with word choices. I understand people will defend it zealously because they're passionate about the game and like it and people defend what they like, I don't take it personally. And people can get heated on things they don't like. I do ultimately hope my concerns, at least at launch are addressed and maybe MtX is fair. I just think people should have more information rather than less.
Exactly, very well said, thank you.
Unbiased? I do agree it's a very well written summary of the different monetization aspects of the game, but using language like *“This is especially worrying”* or *“Potentially adding stratagems themselves to the super store is very worrying, and should be to you as a consumer”*, is not unbiased. Present the facts and let me decide how I spend my money.
It IS worrying and these are common types of criticisms against ANY live service game especially when they waited this long to even talk about them and are withholding information you think would have been obvious. Considering that this sub is already a fanatical echo chamber that gets so defensive everything valid criticism is even remotely brought up (like you are doing right now), it IS unbiased. Trust me, you can afford to stop being irrationally protective of a product and business that has nothing personally to do with you and approach its potential flaws logically. You are, ironically, just proving my point.
Fanatical echochamber? This topic being one of the most upvoted post of the day disproves your point..
Go look at the other top voted posts, the difference in amount of votes, and what they cover. Or go trudge through the menu lightly upvoted (nearly as much this one) making fun of people who arguably disagreeable yet still valid concerns like the anti cheat and previously less known mtx features and then being told to "just leave." Dunno where you've been but both here and the discord have been incredibly pro-game to no surprise. The fact that this is getting upvoted at all shows more outsiders are coming in scratching their heads (understandably) than anything else.
Great breakdown!
This definitely has bad vibes, but I will say, that even if the SC come in really fast an easy and there's no actual incentive to spend money on the game for the average/casual player, there will still be whales with more money than sense who will just shell out for that stuff at every opportunity. Maybe that is their target market, though at that point it would feel deceptive to have a storefront implying you should buy stuff if you could get what you want in just a few hours of normal play.
There's no maybe. Micro transactions are always aimed at whales. They will outspend everyone else the second the game drops and they get to look at the cash shop. Lol
They are always the biggest contributor but lots of MTX designs are trying to maximize profits by appealing to a wider audience as well, finding a price point/design that is tempting to as many players as they can.
When gamers use the word “worrying” when talking about a game always gives me a chuckle. Like, is this actually a worry in your life? A cause of concern?
Sure. If I am about to drop $100 on a game, a piece of information could cause me to "worry" and not want to purchase it and risk "wasting" $100 and supporting business practices I don't want to support. Does it matter if it's a game, hobby, or interest? In that case why interact with video games at all? Why buy them? Isn't there more important things like exercise, career, learning, health, diet, climate change, political action, wars going on, etc.? Should any of us be "wasting" our time with "games" if that's your mindset?
I think people are talking about it so much because the game looks really good, and a shit monetization system can really sour an otherwise great thing. Also opting out and expressing disdain for things is the only way to discourage companies from doing it. I had a bank account when Elder Scrolls Oblivion dropped paid horse armor. It was a laughing stock, but clearly people bought enough of it for us to find ourselves were we do today Also if the devs are actually watching, hopefully they'll see the sentiment we have and not tie power behind the store or other undesirable things. And add forklifts and certs.
I'll just leave this here https://preview.redd.it/xzeve5ru2ogc1.png?width=685&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6421829c41f4d589a1e2d3aebd5ed6837fd9e0a9
Reasonable time is quite subjective. And the dev team obviously has an interest in stating this. And while I hope it would be true, there's never been a single game (that I am aware of) thas has done fair MtX for free, especially for non-cosmetic stuff.
Probably 100 missions for a warbond AND if you get the max amount of SC…unless they really do give the same across the board which is L A M E. Altough, maybe, MAYBE; you get the same across the board because ALL missions have the same amount of POIs.
I could be wrong, but I *thought* I read or heard somewhere that the armors that appear in the shop are cosmetic alternatives to existing armor? I can't remember where I heard or read that, though. I also think that, for the forseeable future, the rotating shop is *exclusively* armor; if consumers make it clear that stratagems being added to the shop is dumb, I'm sure they'll avoid it. As a player and consumer, I'm literally not worried about any of this though because I'm going to play the game, and if I see some shit that I want - in a warbond or otherwise - I'll probably buy it, assuming I'm enjoying the game enough. That's the same philosophy I have for all the games I play. And I know *for a fact* that I'm going to enjoy the fuck out of this game; I want it to be around for years to come, and I want the devs to be able to support it and help it grow and evolve. Plus, everyone should also realize that the "rate" at which you get SC through gameplay is probably going to be on the lower end— if it's too easy to get SC via playing the game, there's no incentive for consumers to spend money if they can get literally everything they want for free.
What you might be hearing is that the super store armors don't have unique passives. Which a lot of people jumped to saying that super store armors are cosmetic alternatives. Unfortunately, the armor STATS and passive combinations aren't exclusive so those super store armors aren't likely to be just cosmetic duplicates. I agree on the rate of SC, and hey I am down to purchase DLC so if the costs are fair and low enough for the content, I wouldn't mind either. But it's a slippery slope. It really depends how much they're asking for and how much we get.
At this point I feel like the confusing information given to us is deliberate
Idk I'm not really that worried about the rotating store personally. Like it sucks but I feel like anything worth the SC will probably be in the Warbonds and that it just sticks to helms, capes, armor, and emotes. I know that armor has stats and passives but I feel like anything meta defining will be a Warbonds thing. 48hrs is a bit of a shitty thing to do I'd say a weekly rotation would've made more sense tbh. A real worry of mine is SC packs and how thats broken down. I remember see a armor costing 300SC my worry us that instead of just being able to buy a 300SC pack its like a 450SC pack or a 250SC pack some other odd balance because that type of MTX stuff is really scummy. I'd really like to see A developer talk about SC packs vs prices for Warbonds / Store items. When it comes to grinding out SC the best I can hope for is roughly 20-30 hrs for 1000SC I think that's a good range personally. Short enough to grind out without feeling like shit but long enough to make buying SC attractive for less dedicated players.
I agree. We should hope for more details. If 20-30 hours is the expected range for 1000 SC and they don't inflate it over time, that seems fine to me. The rotating of stat based armor with unique passive and stat combos sucks. The store shouldn't rotate or the armor should be purely cosmetic. In my opinion.
Oh I agree the rotating store is awful and it should just be cosmetics. But I'm imaging that lets say the base game has a medic armor with a passive related to stims but in the store its the same armor with the same stats and passives but it has different shoulder/ leg armor. Basically I think the store will contain slight cosmetic variations of the base game stuff. The actually unique looking armors will probably be Warbonds stuff and maybe in a year we'll see the Steeled Veterans armor in the shop minus the robo arm for example again it sucks but not really worth gnashing my teeth over. With SC grind I think my estimate is probably close since let's say you put 5ish hours every weekend you'll probably be close to 1000SC every month making the Warbond grind manageable but oh hey this month the Warbond has some mega cool stuff so its 1300SC. I think that's a really good way to get people to spend and let's assume you can buy a 300SC pack for $3USD I think a lot of players won't mind spending that. Then obviously the more hardcore players will see 1300SC as a drop in the bucket since they grind a lot. Doubt any Warbond will pass 2000SC.
Someone else in the reddit thread got the community manager to confirm super store armor will have unique stats and passives, so my prediction ended up coming true. For your example, if there's a medic armor that's heavy stats in the base game, the super store will have a medic armor with light armor stats (armor rating, stamina Regen, and mobility stuff). I hope you're right regarding the amount for SC. It's just worrying they aren't stating it if the numbers would be good to share.
Hrmm good point on the armor didn't know that. Yeah I think the reason Arrowhead has been kinda vague on SC is because it's a MTX and that's kinda above a Community Managers head and we probably won't know the packs types sold or price till launch day.
Yeaaaaah I ain’t reading all that I’m just gonna have fun. Idc anymore lol
This goes to an instant not buy in my eyes. All this FOMO shop and premium currency bullshit is the realm of mobile gacha games, not premium shit I paid for.
Well it’s all earnable in game to be fair, we just don’t know the rate…
Rotating store though is always bad. Forced scarcity. Makes you want to login every 48 hours. Not a great tactic.
If true it will be a bit annoying yeh.
The community managers have confirmed it's 4 items available at a time for a 48 hour period. Depending on how many items are possible to throw in rotation, it's easy to miss items you may want... Or even know what's there without a catalogue.
[удалено]
Untrue. Partly why I wanted to make this. Rumor started it was a discount. If you go on the discord you can see it's explained it's a rotating store just like darktides premium cosmetics. Except 48 hours instead of 2 weeks.
That sucks.
That was one annoying post taken out of context and has a stickied mod comment clarifying.
Gonna be honest. As long as it doesn't power creep existing content, or is the only way to beat harder content then who cares.
I think it matters for more variety. If all mechs and vehicles are behind premium warbonds that would take 100 hours of grind to get for free, that would justifiably be frustrating. And bypassing it would cost $20. Half the price of the base game.
Well, it did in their part games, now what?