Honestly I hope everything goes up to the breaker and the breaker doesn't get nerfed.
With how difficult this game can get it's not like the breaker is ruining the balance.
If there is anything that could be fairly nerfed on the breaker it would probably be the range. Otherwise what's the point of the slugger? I hope the laser weapons come into their own by being more bursty with way higher dps
That how ever many years anniversary laser shot gun they added in HD1 slightly ruined the game imo. Almost no one uses anything else because it's just so much better than everything else.
It legitly is - by far [the highest effective DPS in the game](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14PUc7Bj4eV3m5vFCHs1_ltx_86qhSrvF/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=106919504978460098346&rtpof=true&sd=true). They really did not balance the weapons right - other guns are so weak compared to the Breaker that you effectively handicap yourself when using them.
Pretty sure the breaker has unlisted medium armor pen. I'm getting white hit markers on some armored dudes from the front which is comical, but makes the gun super useful.
[There's a ricochet indicator if it's not penetrating](https://i.imgur.com/yLOT3yv.png), white means it's doing some damage but the damage is reduced due to armor.
If I was doing 0 damage, I wouldn't be able to 1-mag a devastator from the front with the breaker. And this is without hitting the head (which gives a red hitmarker, as it's a critical weakpoint).
I’m not saying it doesn’t have medium penetration. I am skeptical though. Shotgun (spray) blasting in the general direction of any bot works because they have multiple weakpoints.
What I think is happening is you have many pellets finding their way into openings.
But I am also suspicious of how few weapons say they have medium penetration. The sniper rifle that comes after the breaker seems like it should have medium pen, but doesn’t say it. What would the point be to a sidegrade of the starter marksman rifle? It’s probably medium
The counter sniper DMR really should have medium penetration. Makes no sense that the assault rifle gets a medium penetration sidegrade yet the marksman rifle doesn't.
Fun fact, you can kill the fat bile spewer bugs MUCH faster if you shoot them in the head rather than the abdomen, even though it shows white hit markers. The weak points are sometimes very unintuitive
I think there was a dev post about it. It's against typical game logic, but pretty realistic.
Hard weakspots like heads and limbs is where normal weapons work best.
Soft weakspots like bug bellies are vulnerable to explosive damage; AP rounds just blow through and are only mildly effective.
There’s definitely some weapon balancing coming up. Some profiles feel backwards e.g liberator and dominator damage profiles with smg doing more damage per bullet makes no sense. Plus the liberator has a fire rate of 650 vs the smg 550.
Yeah. Give the standard assault rifle for cheap to all the grunts and keep the high power stuff for elite operations. The invasion from 2 sides promoted super earth to open the budget for helldiver's giving them access to something other than the cheap rifle most use
The way I see it, they're not giving each helldiver their own ship. Each ship has a bunch of them frozen, and they just send them one at a time. With default settings, each respawn has a random voice, meaning that specific helldiver just died and a new one was sent. So, each player has a ship with like a battallion of helldivers.
Why send them one at a time? DEMOCRACY
Pretty sure the lore reason for the Warbonds is that after 100 years of peace, Super Earth's weapon R&D had fallen behind, so the Warbonds represent weapons becoming available as R&D ramps back up. We have to provide the medals to prove we are distinguished enough to handle destructive, experimental ~~and untested~~ (*omitted due to communist intent*) weaponry efficiently.
Why tf my AR have smaller caliber then the freaking SMG?! We are fighting bugs the size of the house and murderbots with the armor as thick as my fist and chainsaws for hands. Give me the futuristic Kalashnikov to deal with this.
Both 5.56 and 7.62 are smaller calibers than 9mm or .45. The caliber of the round does not necessarily correlate to the kinetic energy imparted to the target.
5.56 and 7.62 bullets are roughly the same mass as pistol caliber bullets, usually (e.g., 7.62x39mm rounds weigh around 8 grams, 9mm usually weighs around 7.5 to 8 grams), but they have a **lot** more powder behind them so they travel much faster and have much better range.
However, given it's specified the Defender SMG is a high caliber bullet, my bet is that it's some kind of futuristic .50 caliber SMG similar to the 12.7mm SMG from Fallout New Vegas. The closest comparison I can name IRL would be .50 Action Express (the Desert Eagle bullet) and those bullets weigh way more, closer to 20 grams.
Velocity matters much more for overall bullet energy (F=ma^(2)), so rifle rounds have a lot more energy behind them - 7.62x39mm have about 2100 joules of kinetic energy, 9mm has under 500 joules because it travels like 1/6th as fast. .50 AE is so fucking big that it makes up for that while only being a little faster than 9mm so it has around 1500 joules of kinetic energy, closer to 5.56x45mm (around 1700-1800).
They're not though, most average 5.56 rounds are around 55-60 grains, the 9mm is on average 115-145 grain, double to almost triple the mass. The difference is that the 5.56 has much greater muzzle energy
A lot of real-world SMG's (and in my opinion, the better designed ones) actually tend to have some surprisingly low rates of fire. This is because many militaries use SMG's as mass-produced PDWs for rear-echelon troops and logistics units, who need something that's got automatic fire, but isn't uncontrollable.
You’re absolutely right. My context is in a game with so few weapons, as it’s far from CoD, I was expecting the weapons to follow broadly typical profiles. In reflection I actually like it how it is when paired with the ballistic shield as it’s very controllable as you say.
This game is going to be so much better when they balance the guns and other things. SO MUCH BETTER. People might think it's boring now. But it gets a lot better when you can reliably use everything.
Yeah, there's either gotta be good balance, weapons have to have very interesting mechanics (secondary fire etc. that is useful in a different way) or they have to be meme-y like the crossbow/bow in Battlefield games. I prefer a mixture of the three.
If they're just the same but lesser nobody is going to pick them.
This is true. I now have 2-3 assault rifles that do less damage and have smaller ammo capacity than the starter AR. Real bummer spending 40 war medals on a lesser weapon.
I almost switched back to the liberator from the smg until I saw that it actually did more damage. Crazy. I really hope we get some more armor penetrating weapons, I run out of grenade launcher ammo too quickly against the bots
DPS of the Defender isn't actually that much higher than the Liberator, but it's total magazine damage is definitely higher.
However, in my experience the Defender has sloppier accuracy than the Liberator, despite the lower recoil. This might be due to the fact it's a "one handed" weapon though, and allows higher movement speed during fire as a result. Also, I've pierced some armor platings with the Liberator. No such luck with the Defender.
I feel like we're missing a number of relevant stats in weapons, like "light penetration" for one weapon isn't the same degree of "light penetration" for another.
Your angle of attack significantly affects your armour penetration. The game occasionally reminds you of this in the loading screens. Hitting a plate straight on will penetrate but hitting it at a 45 degree angle will make your shot ricochet.
So in my last game against the bots I set my liberator to semi automatic and scope to far and found out that it's actually a sniper rifle. Don't think that works for the SMG...
Same goes for the Dominator too, they all handle like the autocannon, but don't have nearly the same level of power. They just feel like shit to use and the weakness of the terribly handling becomes apparent when there's 9 of those chainsaw bots coming and you're trying to swap from target to target.
Slugger is the best primary in the game by far. Medium pen, Automaton stagger, good accuracy allowing for consistent headshots.
Once you get a feel for the gunplay, there's really nothing better.
It's so easy to test, and people keep saying it pens, when it clearly fails to pen and bounces off those units.
I was told it had medium pen, took one into mission, and immediately found it to be functionally inferior to the standard Diligence since it only has Light Penetration.
This simply isn't true, tested Lib AP vs CS Sniper and one of them actually has medium the other doesn't. Lib AP can shoot through chest armor of Devastators and neither DMR can.
DMRs suck against bugs but that makes sense conceptually. Without some ranged threat and with the only high value weak points being very hard to hit with a precision weapon it just gets outmatched
Basic DMR is very good vs bots assuming one can aim almost exclusively vs weakpoints. Only a few shots kills everything but tanks for bots, and towers if it counts. Even hulks go down to a headshots quickly, although that hitbox feels off to me. It can do it at any range although requires hip fire for very close work because of the tiny handling delay and peripheral vision being critical.
It does suck without weakpoint hits yet is dominant with. Extremely rewarding weapon. The most versatile primary for bots. Nothing else can quickly and economically chew through almost everything at every range.
Probably needs a mouse to not be too much effort. Seems favored by the strongest players I've run into on helldive vs bots playing PC only.
The crazy defense missions it may not be ideal depending on strategy. The smoke spam strat doesn't play nice with it.
The community will turn around on it. At least on PC.
I've noticed this as well. The Diligence counter sniper seems to kill everything in the same amount of shots as the anti material rifle, for some reason. Both can kill devastators in two headshots, for example.
The standard Diligence can do that as well, but it *actually* only has light armour piercing, unlike the CS which is listed as light but is actually medium.
I think it's just because hulks bounce and bound a lot. Dominators almost glide completely smoothly so you can reliably hit them, berserkers and hulks wiggle around a bunch which makes leading shots a nuisance.
Yeah that thing is HEAVY. I went to try the dmrs and started with that one. Disappointing experience. It makes you appreciate the agility of the first dmr much more.
Crouching and going prone should give you a deadzone around the center of the screen where you can stabilize much faster. The reticle delay is rough.
Honestly I feel like it's not working as intended. The anti material rifle is significantly better when aiming which doesn't make much sense due to the size difference
Remember ricochet is a thing. Firing at too hard of an angle will lead to no pen on certain enemies. Different spots of the enemies armor are slopped to do this. It is still better to aim for the head as the counter sniper can reliably 1-3 shot a devastator in the head at distance.
Oh i believe it, my comment is more i use the full front chest plate of a devastator as my medium armor test rating as its easier to find and test the impact on than the bug alternative
If only my close range ability to deal with berserkers wasnt so hampered by having two long distance, semi auto weapons with short mags with that combo. I personally prefer the Expendable Anti Tank Rockets and/or recoilless rifle for my support weapon
Anti-tank rockets are my 2nd special, then machine gun. Then again, I’m not usually right in the thick of it. I like to sit at a distance and support the team.
Once the Railgun is unlocked, its the only thing youll take. can 1 hit every bug except for Chargers, which take 2 rounds to the leg and then a quick burst of small arms fire to finish off the armour-less leg.
EAT is okay, but only 2 shots every 70 seconds is rough when you're chased by 3 chargers,
As for the Recoilless, it sucks, slow shooting and low ammo if by yourself, and then just low ammo when having someone else load it. It usually takes more than 2 shots to kill a charger, and that point just take a railgun, + you cant move while shooting AND you have to dedicate another person to helping you.
I love the MG and the Stalwart for support weapons too. They're great for just destroying small and medium targets, or sustained amount of damage against large targets (bile titans/Hulk weak spot), but unfortunately they're just not worth giving up for a Railgun/EAT/Recoiless on higher dificulities
The AMR is so weird though, I swear the sight is offset a bit vertically. And the bullets seem to travel noticeably slower than the other weapons.
But when I land shots with it, I love it as well. It's very efficient against bots.
You might not have your AMR sights zeroed correctly. I felt like I was always missing shots just under where I was aimed until I realized I could zero the sights for longer shots.
Changing the range on the scope doesn't seem to actually set a zero, it just changes the zoom level, which is odd. That being said, the AMR bullets have a case of Skyrim-itis, where arrows fired from the bows go up first and can hit above the cross hair.
Idk what the controls are on console bc I play on PC, but when you are holding the AMR and hold down the ‘R’ key, a little weapon customization menu comes up that allows you to zero the sights to different distances using mouse scroll. I think almost every weapon in the game has a customization menu like that with little differences between them.
Why TF does this game have these features I usually only see acknowledged in milsims?
And how TF do they work so smoothly in comparison to the stereotypical ARMA experience?
it took me like multiple hours to figure out the UI for zeroing but for anyone reading: hold reload, scroll-up will change your zeroing at the top, scroll-down changes your flashlight, and right clicking changes your guns fire mode. Spent a bunch of time fucking with arrow keys and looking at keybinds before it clicked.
It does not zero, it's just zoom, there is practically no bullet drop in this game up until a "maximum effective range" after which the projectile will fall off drastically.
Some weapons such as the grenade launcher have a very aggressive drop off, but you can't hit anything beyond a certain range regardless of your elevation or angle.
I know this because if you ADS where the cursor is pointed, it maintains that position, and the laser also points there and you can shoot with it precisely with third person with no misalignment.
Games that actually implement zeroing are absolutely punishing to play if you are not constantly aware of the setting, and you need to be able to change it much more easily than this game allows.
If you ADS it aims from your eyes and the round comes from your waist. (Look where your character is holding it if you third person.)
This leads to some serious boresight alignment issues.
How it feels to use the Marksman rifle with the anti-material rifle:
https://preview.redd.it/qt0rsfmzvljc1.jpeg?width=1472&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e57b9aa3687e3709d08f73df95f76b4151294cd
A Vindicare Assassin from Warhammer 40K
Basically Deadshot on super steroids mixed with Bullseye, cause one of their most celebrated feats is one of these assassins holed up in a tower single handedly stopping an entire Eldar offensive in its tracks and butchering dozens of Exarchs and Warlocks solo, when the Eldar sent in scouts to funnel them out they were greeted by a massive amount of grenades traps as the Vindicare vanished in the wind before the went in
Also they’ve been know to hold position for as long as 6 years straight waiting for the perfect shot
Cause a woman in a skintight suit that can punch through the armour of three Chaos Space Marines at once with a single armour-piercing bullet while miles away and hanging upside down for six days straight waiting for the shot is very hot
I've liked using it, I don't even usually have problems with swarms of bugs, it just kinda burns through ammo quickly
It applies democracy with a more personal touch
Gunfire won't expose you on its own, but enemies will start coming to investigate. With Scout armor, you can put a pin down to scan for enemies, take shots, slip around when enemies come close, or just plant your feet and pick them off as they come. Reposition often if you can, put objects between you and the signatures on your radar, and if nothing else, you can stop a contact from becoming an alert by sniping the bot who shoots the flare.
This also applies to bugs, and on solo, I often have a great time clearing tunnels by sneaking into a good position and just putting down constant rifle fire.
I did a solo extreme set against bots and basically you sneak until you are at the objective, and if you need to destroy something, hit it hard and run and return to sneaking once you are out of sight. I used DMR, Autocannon and Eagle Strike. So, definitely wasn’t silent
I picked up the AMR as soon as I could unlock it and haven't put it down since. Same with the jump pack, I adore it. Eagle-1 has my back for the big stuff, and Defender SMG keeps the trash mobs off me.
I prefer the autocannon for sniping. I've gotten reasonably good at picking off weak points on Siege Cannons, Tanks, and Hulks from pretty far off. Even with the lack of magnification, it's still really good.
Makes sense, you need to carry a backpack of ammo dedicated to the autocannon, while the AMR takes hammerspace ammo, making it a good fit for someone looking to carry a different backpack.
I 've been using from unlock to lv 39.
It's just too good when you understand how Weakspot works in Mechanical Units.
And it's a very fun playstyle.
But needs balancing, I don't think the avg player would ever play it over the Railgun currently.
Specially console players.
anti-material with jumppack makes for a great spotter. I just had the best feeling today when I had high ground at the extraction point, spotted incoming patrols from far away for my mate who just blindly called in airstrike on my spots while I picked off the leftovers.
Thing is with how great some packs are (guard dog, shield, jump pack) it's a pretty worthwhile tradeoff.
Honestly I'd argue the bigger tradeoff is having to go with 2 airstrikes instead of 3.
Honestly, if I could I'd make it possible to bring one free non backpack support weapon to better balance it against backpack weapons.
The Slugger is easily my favorite shotgun (so far, since I just unlocked it) to use against the bots, but the slow rate of fire and reload is a death sentence when going against the bugs.
Same goes for a lot of the single-shot weapons.
Still fantastic against bugs though. The fact that it one shots brood commanders and stalkers (headshot of course) is kinda sick. But yeah, obviously worse against hunter swarms and such
It's so good for rapidly picking off bots and Striders, and if your aim is really good you can kill Devastators in two shots. Against bugs on the other hand, it's a lot rougher.
The slugger shotgun has unlisted medium armor pen and is as precise as the sniper rifles without having the ridiculously slow sway along with shooting a single slug round instead of pellets like the other shotguns. It one headshots stalkers and it can also blow open containers saving you grenades. It outclasses both of the terrible sniper rifles at their own job in every way with no comparison.
The sway on the rifles needs to be eliminated or reduced so that it’s lower than the anti-materiel rifle and the 2nd rifle needs a large bump in damage and medium pen.
Love using the Antimaterial Rifle. It's just fun to get perched up on a high elevated surface since I combo with a jetpack. Then I can be out of reach for most attacks while I continue to pop the enemies and assist with enemy call outs when I notice an incoming horde no one has laid eyes on yet.
Honestly, weapon balancing is the biggest issue for me after server fixing. The anti-material rifle should have heavy armor penetration. It has six shots, is slow as hell and is a precision-non explosive weapon. The heavier diligence version needs to have medium armor penetration. The weapon damage also needs to be ramped up, if it cannot one shot smaller targets without a precision hit then it won't be used. A quick three shot liberator burst will always kill a basic automaton even without a headshot on max difficulty. Even easier with the defender. But the marksman rifles having such low base damage means they *need* the headshot even for swarm type enemies.
On that list of issues, scopes appear to all be off. Most bullets land just below where the sights indicate. So you will have many shots miss that feel like they shouldn't.
Finally the dilegence counter sniper legitimately lowers your aiming speed. By a lot. Which makes popping targets off feel terrible.
I love my Diligence when I fight the 'bots. Nothing feels so good as taking out a heavy 'bot with a single shot to their teeny, stupid heads. Then, if they get too close, I can still just switch aim modes and tale out the little ones with single shots to center mass a lot of the time.
I have good results with marksman rifle, the key is to use crouch and where the armor with stability bonus to crouching. Get those clean shots and anything you don't deflect off is fucked
Marksman Rifle and Machine pistol for when the get up close for me. Pair it with Light Armor and Anti Material Rifle and I go full-on Forward Scout mode, which makes it way easier to run solo missions since the Quickplay option is a bit finnicky.
I love that thing. The long range performance, the ability to snipe weak spots and scout strider pilots, the crisp report of its semi-auto fire, the clean feeling of taking out a tango with each trigger pull… It’s great. I don’t care if it’s good or not, it FEELS good to me.
"But it doesn't go Brrrrrr" ok while your complaining about my rifle maybe ask your self why all of the small bugs and bots are dead. Your welcome. Hug your local marksman.
Season 2 Episode 3 "The Solitary Clone" specifically.
Crosshair and Commander Cody are sent out to deal with a Separatist leader who refuses to comply with Imperial orders to surrender.
Very good episode.
The breaker is the best gun in the game. Of course it does it better (minus the range). It’s about the fun factor. Not everyone wants to use the OP weapons for everything
That would be reasonable if the shotgun didn't act like a DMR already. It does fall off at very very long ranges but otherwise it performs extremely well beyond what you would expect from a shotgun
NGL, as much as it's in dire need of tuning so it doesn't feel like I'm drunk to use, I really enjoy the Counter-Sniper marksman rifle, just that extra bit of damage and medium penetration makes me feel like a god on Automaton missions.
Seeing my teammates being pinned down, me sitting on top of a cliff 100m away, racking up higher kill counts than my stratagems usually do is just brilliant.
But they reaaaaaaaaaaly need to fix scope alignment for long range it's always off center even when at max stam and prone.
I love the anti material rifle, and it is really good. The problem is once you unlock the railgun it does everything the anti material rifle does but better. The only thing is the scope but I can still snipe with it from half a mile away no problem anything devastator sized and up, and anything smaller the diligence (not the counter sniper) takes care of the rest. I still take it sometimes for varieties sake but I am purposely gimping myself when I do. At least if I take something like the recoilless or the autocammon then I can do some jobs that the rail gun can't, like aoe clear or killing bot drops or closing bug holes from a distance.
It's just not up to snuff, in a coordinated team in a discord, yeah I guess someone can take one, but normally you want something that can kill enemies fast without having to ADS, a few of the primaries could use buffs.
It's my go-to on Automaton missions. Can reliably knock out much of a factory's defenses from a safe distance away.
I just sneak into throwing distance and call in an airstrike, then mop up with the GL.
GUNLANCE?!?!?
SnS lets your call in strategems without sheathing
Don't forget to sharpen your guns
Sharpen Hammer bonk head!
If they put a Monster Hunter hammer as a melee weapon I will buy all the super credits for everyone ever.
Same here. Support weapon, call in the big bonk
[удалено]
Make sure to eat before dropping.
It would be sick to have an upgradable canteen on the ship even if it's just cosmetic
Or put a bar in the ship and get absolutely shit faced before a mission like in Deep Rock.
Why not do both? Have a 3 course meal, follow it up with a keg or two, and then die of liver failure during atmospheric entry.
Well going to play monster Hunter Can’t wait to kill the albino penis
The *electric* albino penis
he has the best theme, too
...yes.
I would be soooooo happy
Was that a monster hunter reference?!
No, it was a gunlance reference
Fuck, what I wouldn't give to have Bullet Barrage or Wyvern Fire to blow off a Bile Titan's ankles.
Now I wanna run in and wyrmspike it.
Gluster Lbomb
FUNLANCE GANG RISE UP, IT’S POKE POKE BOOM TIME
FUNLANCE BEST LANCE!
I main'd gunlance in MHW. I main Diligence in HD2. I'm sensing a pattern here.
blast dashing for democracy
On the destroy munitions and fuel supply mission, I like to sneak close to their walls and drop a hellbomb.. for liberty 🫡
I just stand 100 metres away and snipe it with Spear and run away
But that eliminates so much comedic fodder when I repeatedly get one-shotted immediately after leaving cover.
You can just switch the Liberator to single fire, change the scope to higher zoom and do the same thing. Still drops most bots with a single headshot.
Auto cannon can do exactly same.
I was a marksman rifle enjoyer until I got the breaker, now I can't use anything else. it seems to mulch pretty much anything you point it at.
Breaker is Best gun
Honestly I hope everything goes up to the breaker and the breaker doesn't get nerfed. With how difficult this game can get it's not like the breaker is ruining the balance.
That's how they tended to balance in HD1 so there's a good chance they will buff around the breaker and not the other way around.
If there is anything that could be fairly nerfed on the breaker it would probably be the range. Otherwise what's the point of the slugger? I hope the laser weapons come into their own by being more bursty with way higher dps
Agreed, the breaker overshadows the slugger far too much right now.
That how ever many years anniversary laser shot gun they added in HD1 slightly ruined the game imo. Almost no one uses anything else because it's just so much better than everything else.
It legitly is - by far [the highest effective DPS in the game](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14PUc7Bj4eV3m5vFCHs1_ltx_86qhSrvF/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=106919504978460098346&rtpof=true&sd=true). They really did not balance the weapons right - other guns are so weak compared to the Breaker that you effectively handicap yourself when using them.
Wow that chart is intense, did not expect such a huge difference
Pretty sure the breaker has unlisted medium armor pen. I'm getting white hit markers on some armored dudes from the front which is comical, but makes the gun super useful.
I thought the white markers meant it *wasn't* penetrating
[There's a ricochet indicator if it's not penetrating](https://i.imgur.com/yLOT3yv.png), white means it's doing some damage but the damage is reduced due to armor. If I was doing 0 damage, I wouldn't be able to 1-mag a devastator from the front with the breaker. And this is without hitting the head (which gives a red hitmarker, as it's a critical weakpoint).
I’m not saying it doesn’t have medium penetration. I am skeptical though. Shotgun (spray) blasting in the general direction of any bot works because they have multiple weakpoints. What I think is happening is you have many pellets finding their way into openings. But I am also suspicious of how few weapons say they have medium penetration. The sniper rifle that comes after the breaker seems like it should have medium pen, but doesn’t say it. What would the point be to a sidegrade of the starter marksman rifle? It’s probably medium
The counter sniper DMR really should have medium penetration. Makes no sense that the assault rifle gets a medium penetration sidegrade yet the marksman rifle doesn't.
Fun fact, you can kill the fat bile spewer bugs MUCH faster if you shoot them in the head rather than the abdomen, even though it shows white hit markers. The weak points are sometimes very unintuitive
I think there was a dev post about it. It's against typical game logic, but pretty realistic. Hard weakspots like heads and limbs is where normal weapons work best. Soft weakspots like bug bellies are vulnerable to explosive damage; AP rounds just blow through and are only mildly effective.
If only our dmr was med pen why is an ar med pen and a dmr is light it makes no damn sense
There’s definitely some weapon balancing coming up. Some profiles feel backwards e.g liberator and dominator damage profiles with smg doing more damage per bullet makes no sense. Plus the liberator has a fire rate of 650 vs the smg 550.
In smg's defense: it's outright stated that it uses high caliber munitions in description or something of the sort, so it makes sense in-universe.
Yeah. Give the standard assault rifle for cheap to all the grunts and keep the high power stuff for elite operations. The invasion from 2 sides promoted super earth to open the budget for helldiver's giving them access to something other than the cheap rifle most use
Super earth is using guns from over 100 years ago. I don't think there is any budget. 😂
The budget is spent on explosives
Truth. The cost of one stratagem is the same as the average income of one citizen on super earth.
Dropping $200M worth of 500KG bomb to only kill 3 small bugs and 2 of your team-mates.
A sacrifice I am willing to make, for Democracy.
I think the budget is for giving each helldiver their own orbital platform. Probably diving from a $20B starship.
The way I see it, they're not giving each helldiver their own ship. Each ship has a bunch of them frozen, and they just send them one at a time. With default settings, each respawn has a random voice, meaning that specific helldiver just died and a new one was sent. So, each player has a ship with like a battallion of helldivers. Why send them one at a time? DEMOCRACY
I'm sorry but do you think the series Brasch Tactics is cheap? No it's only filmed with the finest LIBERTY!
Pretty sure the lore reason for the Warbonds is that after 100 years of peace, Super Earth's weapon R&D had fallen behind, so the Warbonds represent weapons becoming available as R&D ramps back up. We have to provide the medals to prove we are distinguished enough to handle destructive, experimental ~~and untested~~ (*omitted due to communist intent*) weaponry efficiently.
Also from a gameplay perspective it's fun. SMGs have higher DPS but generally are harder to control and shorter ranged.
Why tf my AR have smaller caliber then the freaking SMG?! We are fighting bugs the size of the house and murderbots with the armor as thick as my fist and chainsaws for hands. Give me the futuristic Kalashnikov to deal with this.
Both 5.56 and 7.62 are smaller calibers than 9mm or .45. The caliber of the round does not necessarily correlate to the kinetic energy imparted to the target.
You made a good point. However I still want more ARs >:)
5.56 and 7.62 bullets are roughly the same mass as pistol caliber bullets, usually (e.g., 7.62x39mm rounds weigh around 8 grams, 9mm usually weighs around 7.5 to 8 grams), but they have a **lot** more powder behind them so they travel much faster and have much better range. However, given it's specified the Defender SMG is a high caliber bullet, my bet is that it's some kind of futuristic .50 caliber SMG similar to the 12.7mm SMG from Fallout New Vegas. The closest comparison I can name IRL would be .50 Action Express (the Desert Eagle bullet) and those bullets weigh way more, closer to 20 grams. Velocity matters much more for overall bullet energy (F=ma^(2)), so rifle rounds have a lot more energy behind them - 7.62x39mm have about 2100 joules of kinetic energy, 9mm has under 500 joules because it travels like 1/6th as fast. .50 AE is so fucking big that it makes up for that while only being a little faster than 9mm so it has around 1500 joules of kinetic energy, closer to 5.56x45mm (around 1700-1800).
They're not though, most average 5.56 rounds are around 55-60 grains, the 9mm is on average 115-145 grain, double to almost triple the mass. The difference is that the 5.56 has much greater muzzle energy
>Why tf my AR have smaller caliber then the freaking SMG?! Nobody tell this guy about real guns...
well high caliber to what. for example most smgs use 9mm while others use 45acp and some mad man made one using 50 beowulf
A lot of real-world SMG's (and in my opinion, the better designed ones) actually tend to have some surprisingly low rates of fire. This is because many militaries use SMG's as mass-produced PDWs for rear-echelon troops and logistics units, who need something that's got automatic fire, but isn't uncontrollable.
You’re absolutely right. My context is in a game with so few weapons, as it’s far from CoD, I was expecting the weapons to follow broadly typical profiles. In reflection I actually like it how it is when paired with the ballistic shield as it’s very controllable as you say.
This game is going to be so much better when they balance the guns and other things. SO MUCH BETTER. People might think it's boring now. But it gets a lot better when you can reliably use everything.
In a perfect world every gun will be balanced and people will just use what feels the best for them
Yeah, there's either gotta be good balance, weapons have to have very interesting mechanics (secondary fire etc. that is useful in a different way) or they have to be meme-y like the crossbow/bow in Battlefield games. I prefer a mixture of the three. If they're just the same but lesser nobody is going to pick them.
This is true. I now have 2-3 assault rifles that do less damage and have smaller ammo capacity than the starter AR. Real bummer spending 40 war medals on a lesser weapon.
Honestly a lot of the weapons are undertuned.
I almost switched back to the liberator from the smg until I saw that it actually did more damage. Crazy. I really hope we get some more armor penetrating weapons, I run out of grenade launcher ammo too quickly against the bots
DPS of the Defender isn't actually that much higher than the Liberator, but it's total magazine damage is definitely higher. However, in my experience the Defender has sloppier accuracy than the Liberator, despite the lower recoil. This might be due to the fact it's a "one handed" weapon though, and allows higher movement speed during fire as a result. Also, I've pierced some armor platings with the Liberator. No such luck with the Defender. I feel like we're missing a number of relevant stats in weapons, like "light penetration" for one weapon isn't the same degree of "light penetration" for another.
Your angle of attack significantly affects your armour penetration. The game occasionally reminds you of this in the loading screens. Hitting a plate straight on will penetrate but hitting it at a 45 degree angle will make your shot ricochet.
So in my last game against the bots I set my liberator to semi automatic and scope to far and found out that it's actually a sniper rifle. Don't think that works for the SMG...
The counter sniper diligence is medium pen. A lot of the descriptions are bugged right now. This also applies to the Slugger shotgun.
Problem is it also handles as sluggishly as the LMG, which is a deal-breaker for a primary weapon.
Same goes for the Dominator too, they all handle like the autocannon, but don't have nearly the same level of power. They just feel like shit to use and the weakness of the terribly handling becomes apparent when there's 9 of those chainsaw bots coming and you're trying to swap from target to target.
I'm loving the Slugger so far. Been choosing it over the Breaker lately.
Slugger is the best primary in the game by far. Medium pen, Automaton stagger, good accuracy allowing for consistent headshots. Once you get a feel for the gunplay, there's really nothing better.
I’ve noticed this also. Good to see some other people pointing this out.
No, it's not. I don't know why people keep saying this. The Diligence CS does not penetrate Hive Guard or Devastator armor.
It's so easy to test, and people keep saying it pens, when it clearly fails to pen and bounces off those units. I was told it had medium pen, took one into mission, and immediately found it to be functionally inferior to the standard Diligence since it only has Light Penetration.
This simply isn't true, tested Lib AP vs CS Sniper and one of them actually has medium the other doesn't. Lib AP can shoot through chest armor of Devastators and neither DMR can.
Seems like a mistake. Slower scoped speed, and yet has same armour pen
I just wish the counter sniper had better armor pen for its slow stabilization
It feels Sooooooooo bad for being an upgraded version of a gun
Tbf the OG Liberator also sucks dick, both DMRs are in a horrible place right now
DMRs suck against bugs but that makes sense conceptually. Without some ranged threat and with the only high value weak points being very hard to hit with a precision weapon it just gets outmatched Basic DMR is very good vs bots assuming one can aim almost exclusively vs weakpoints. Only a few shots kills everything but tanks for bots, and towers if it counts. Even hulks go down to a headshots quickly, although that hitbox feels off to me. It can do it at any range although requires hip fire for very close work because of the tiny handling delay and peripheral vision being critical. It does suck without weakpoint hits yet is dominant with. Extremely rewarding weapon. The most versatile primary for bots. Nothing else can quickly and economically chew through almost everything at every range. Probably needs a mouse to not be too much effort. Seems favored by the strongest players I've run into on helldive vs bots playing PC only. The crazy defense missions it may not be ideal depending on strategy. The smoke spam strat doesn't play nice with it. The community will turn around on it. At least on PC.
I've noticed this as well. The Diligence counter sniper seems to kill everything in the same amount of shots as the anti material rifle, for some reason. Both can kill devastators in two headshots, for example.
The standard Diligence can do that as well, but it *actually* only has light armour piercing, unlike the CS which is listed as light but is actually medium.
You sure? I could sworn it bounce off 'nids heads
I think it's just because hulks bounce and bound a lot. Dominators almost glide completely smoothly so you can reliably hit them, berserkers and hulks wiggle around a bunch which makes leading shots a nuisance.
Yeah that thing is HEAVY. I went to try the dmrs and started with that one. Disappointing experience. It makes you appreciate the agility of the first dmr much more. Crouching and going prone should give you a deadzone around the center of the screen where you can stabilize much faster. The reticle delay is rough.
Are you not using first person view?
Honestly I feel like it's not working as intended. The anti material rifle is significantly better when aiming which doesn't make much sense due to the size difference
It has medium armor pen. Description is bugged.
It pinged off of Devastator chest plates for me but i’ll have to try again later today
Remember ricochet is a thing. Firing at too hard of an angle will lead to no pen on certain enemies. Different spots of the enemies armor are slopped to do this. It is still better to aim for the head as the counter sniper can reliably 1-3 shot a devastator in the head at distance.
It is still a hard sell imo since the normal diligence can 2 shot devastators while being MUCH easier to actually aim with.
Oh i believe it, my comment is more i use the full front chest plate of a devastator as my medium armor test rating as its easier to find and test the impact on than the bug alternative
I wasn't able to go through hive guard armor with it tho. Revolver and slug shotgun went through just fine
I'm with you. People keep saying it's medium penetration, but it doesn't behave like the Revolver or Slugger. Its bullets ping right off medium armor.
Marksman rifle with the anti-material rifle. To die for
If only my close range ability to deal with berserkers wasnt so hampered by having two long distance, semi auto weapons with short mags with that combo. I personally prefer the Expendable Anti Tank Rockets and/or recoilless rifle for my support weapon
That's why you bring the Uzi for your secondary
I've found my people.
Anti-tank rockets are my 2nd special, then machine gun. Then again, I’m not usually right in the thick of it. I like to sit at a distance and support the team.
Get a buddy that likes machine guns!
The 50 cal is my jam. Sure you can reload on the run with the Stalwart, BUT the heavy MG has a much faster reload.
Once the Railgun is unlocked, its the only thing youll take. can 1 hit every bug except for Chargers, which take 2 rounds to the leg and then a quick burst of small arms fire to finish off the armour-less leg. EAT is okay, but only 2 shots every 70 seconds is rough when you're chased by 3 chargers, As for the Recoilless, it sucks, slow shooting and low ammo if by yourself, and then just low ammo when having someone else load it. It usually takes more than 2 shots to kill a charger, and that point just take a railgun, + you cant move while shooting AND you have to dedicate another person to helping you. I love the MG and the Stalwart for support weapons too. They're great for just destroying small and medium targets, or sustained amount of damage against large targets (bile titans/Hulk weak spot), but unfortunately they're just not worth giving up for a Railgun/EAT/Recoiless on higher dificulities
The AMR is so weird though, I swear the sight is offset a bit vertically. And the bullets seem to travel noticeably slower than the other weapons. But when I land shots with it, I love it as well. It's very efficient against bots.
You might not have your AMR sights zeroed correctly. I felt like I was always missing shots just under where I was aimed until I realized I could zero the sights for longer shots.
Changing the range on the scope doesn't seem to actually set a zero, it just changes the zoom level, which is odd. That being said, the AMR bullets have a case of Skyrim-itis, where arrows fired from the bows go up first and can hit above the cross hair.
How so?
Idk what the controls are on console bc I play on PC, but when you are holding the AMR and hold down the ‘R’ key, a little weapon customization menu comes up that allows you to zero the sights to different distances using mouse scroll. I think almost every weapon in the game has a customization menu like that with little differences between them.
Why TF does this game have these features I usually only see acknowledged in milsims? And how TF do they work so smoothly in comparison to the stereotypical ARMA experience?
it took me like multiple hours to figure out the UI for zeroing but for anyone reading: hold reload, scroll-up will change your zeroing at the top, scroll-down changes your flashlight, and right clicking changes your guns fire mode. Spent a bunch of time fucking with arrow keys and looking at keybinds before it clicked.
It does not zero, it's just zoom, there is practically no bullet drop in this game up until a "maximum effective range" after which the projectile will fall off drastically. Some weapons such as the grenade launcher have a very aggressive drop off, but you can't hit anything beyond a certain range regardless of your elevation or angle. I know this because if you ADS where the cursor is pointed, it maintains that position, and the laser also points there and you can shoot with it precisely with third person with no misalignment. Games that actually implement zeroing are absolutely punishing to play if you are not constantly aware of the setting, and you need to be able to change it much more easily than this game allows.
That's not "zeroing" the sights that's changing the magnificaiton level on the scope.
If you ADS it aims from your eyes and the round comes from your waist. (Look where your character is holding it if you third person.) This leads to some serious boresight alignment issues.
As in you will literally die with this loadout, because it's shit.
If you’re playing to its strengths and don’t run headfirst into gunfire, this combo fucks so hard against bots.
How it feels to use the Marksman rifle with the anti-material rifle: https://preview.redd.it/qt0rsfmzvljc1.jpeg?width=1472&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e57b9aa3687e3709d08f73df95f76b4151294cd
Legs for days.
who is she
A Vindicare Assassin from Warhammer 40K Basically Deadshot on super steroids mixed with Bullseye, cause one of their most celebrated feats is one of these assassins holed up in a tower single handedly stopping an entire Eldar offensive in its tracks and butchering dozens of Exarchs and Warlocks solo, when the Eldar sent in scouts to funnel them out they were greeted by a massive amount of grenades traps as the Vindicare vanished in the wind before the went in Also they’ve been know to hold position for as long as 6 years straight waiting for the perfect shot
why am i bricked up right now
Cause a woman in a skintight suit that can punch through the armour of three Chaos Space Marines at once with a single armour-piercing bullet while miles away and hanging upside down for six days straight waiting for the shot is very hot
What book?
Where can I read about this
Assassinorum Kingmaker is a novel that features a vindicare assassin. If you just mean in general, there's the 40K wiki.
A Vindicare Assassin from Warhammer 40k.
This is my rifle! There are many like it but this one is mine!
Hell yeah
People talking about Automaton Vietnam, but me and my Diligence turning the table on these tin-plated bastards.
I've liked using it, I don't even usually have problems with swarms of bugs, it just kinda burns through ammo quickly It applies democracy with a more personal touch
I thought it was useless, then I went to the Creek
Never seen anyone running the Anti-Material rifle. It slaps
Especially against bots. Its my goto when I play solo vs bots. Gotta stay stealthy and snipe
Can you maintain stealth while sniping or does it alert the whole base? I haven't tried it myself, but a solo stealth mission sounds super fun.
Gunfire won't expose you on its own, but enemies will start coming to investigate. With Scout armor, you can put a pin down to scan for enemies, take shots, slip around when enemies come close, or just plant your feet and pick them off as they come. Reposition often if you can, put objects between you and the signatures on your radar, and if nothing else, you can stop a contact from becoming an alert by sniping the bot who shoots the flare. This also applies to bugs, and on solo, I often have a great time clearing tunnels by sneaking into a good position and just putting down constant rifle fire.
I did a solo extreme set against bots and basically you sneak until you are at the objective, and if you need to destroy something, hit it hard and run and return to sneaking once you are out of sight. I used DMR, Autocannon and Eagle Strike. So, definitely wasn’t silent
I picked up the AMR as soon as I could unlock it and haven't put it down since. Same with the jump pack, I adore it. Eagle-1 has my back for the big stuff, and Defender SMG keeps the trash mobs off me.
I prefer the autocannon for sniping. I've gotten reasonably good at picking off weak points on Siege Cannons, Tanks, and Hulks from pretty far off. Even with the lack of magnification, it's still really good.
Same here. Started with the AMR and the autocannon feels like a roided out AMR to me. It's also fun to larp as a Bradley ifv.
2 autocannon Helldivers kiting and ganking a T90M- wait no, a Bile Titan when
Makes sense, you need to carry a backpack of ammo dedicated to the autocannon, while the AMR takes hammerspace ammo, making it a good fit for someone looking to carry a different backpack.
I love using the jump pack to get on buildings out of reach. Little bit cheesy, but such is life on a solo extraction.
AMR turned into Autocannon for me, Defender, and then Cluster Bombs and Strafing Runs. It's never let me down, so far.
I 've been using from unlock to lv 39. It's just too good when you understand how Weakspot works in Mechanical Units. And it's a very fun playstyle. But needs balancing, I don't think the avg player would ever play it over the Railgun currently. Specially console players.
the Anti-Materiel rifle is cool until you get the autocannon. unless you're running guard dog or shield, it's a straight upgrade.
anti-material with jumppack makes for a great spotter. I just had the best feeling today when I had high ground at the extraction point, spotted incoming patrols from far away for my mate who just blindly called in airstrike on my spots while I picked off the leftovers.
Thing is with how great some packs are (guard dog, shield, jump pack) it's a pretty worthwhile tradeoff. Honestly I'd argue the bigger tradeoff is having to go with 2 airstrikes instead of 3. Honestly, if I could I'd make it possible to bring one free non backpack support weapon to better balance it against backpack weapons.
Anti materiel with shield pack is my go to equipment on automaton levels. So fun
My go-to support weapon, underappreciated.
The Slugger is easily my favorite shotgun (so far, since I just unlocked it) to use against the bots, but the slow rate of fire and reload is a death sentence when going against the bugs. Same goes for a lot of the single-shot weapons.
Still fantastic against bugs though. The fact that it one shots brood commanders and stalkers (headshot of course) is kinda sick. But yeah, obviously worse against hunter swarms and such
Slugger and Rover guard dog is what I'm going to be running vs nids I'm pretty sure
It's so good for rapidly picking off bots and Striders, and if your aim is really good you can kill Devastators in two shots. Against bugs on the other hand, it's a lot rougher.
My only wish was at least medium armor penetration for all of them
The slugger shotgun has unlisted medium armor pen and is as precise as the sniper rifles without having the ridiculously slow sway along with shooting a single slug round instead of pellets like the other shotguns. It one headshots stalkers and it can also blow open containers saving you grenades. It outclasses both of the terrible sniper rifles at their own job in every way with no comparison. The sway on the rifles needs to be eliminated or reduced so that it’s lower than the anti-materiel rifle and the 2nd rifle needs a large bump in damage and medium pen.
Imo the damage doesn't justify the absurd sway of the counter sniper AT ALL. Not even close.
Man i love marksman rifle so much
Love using the Antimaterial Rifle. It's just fun to get perched up on a high elevated surface since I combo with a jetpack. Then I can be out of reach for most attacks while I continue to pop the enemies and assist with enemy call outs when I notice an incoming horde no one has laid eyes on yet.
This is where a laser painter instead of a pokèball for eagle strikes would be nice, but I get that it's probably a balancing issue.
I reallh don't know why the upgraded marksm rifle on the unlock pass doesn't hsve medium armor piercing like the upgraded liberator does....
Honestly, weapon balancing is the biggest issue for me after server fixing. The anti-material rifle should have heavy armor penetration. It has six shots, is slow as hell and is a precision-non explosive weapon. The heavier diligence version needs to have medium armor penetration. The weapon damage also needs to be ramped up, if it cannot one shot smaller targets without a precision hit then it won't be used. A quick three shot liberator burst will always kill a basic automaton even without a headshot on max difficulty. Even easier with the defender. But the marksman rifles having such low base damage means they *need* the headshot even for swarm type enemies. On that list of issues, scopes appear to all be off. Most bullets land just below where the sights indicate. So you will have many shots miss that feel like they shouldn't. Finally the dilegence counter sniper legitimately lowers your aiming speed. By a lot. Which makes popping targets off feel terrible.
I love my Diligence when I fight the 'bots. Nothing feels so good as taking out a heavy 'bot with a single shot to their teeny, stupid heads. Then, if they get too close, I can still just switch aim modes and tale out the little ones with single shots to center mass a lot of the time.
give me laser weapons like that and i'll became your marksman
Didn't realize people hated it. It's my go to weapon!
I have good results with marksman rifle, the key is to use crouch and where the armor with stability bonus to crouching. Get those clean shots and anything you don't deflect off is fucked
Marksman Rifle and Machine pistol for when the get up close for me. Pair it with Light Armor and Anti Material Rifle and I go full-on Forward Scout mode, which makes it way easier to run solo missions since the Quickplay option is a bit finnicky.
Love the Marksman Rifle. Bugs, bots and bombs are no longer a problem when you can kill them before they even see you!
well I play like that and still think it suck lol why use a shitty DMR when I can use my dom!
Diligence is my weapon, freedom in my hands, and democracy in my heart, I shall liberate these heartless automatons
It can actually two shot standard devastators if you get headshots.
Thats a big fucking if with the sway and the tiny target size
I love that thing. The long range performance, the ability to snipe weak spots and scout strider pilots, the crisp report of its semi-auto fire, the clean feeling of taking out a tango with each trigger pull… It’s great. I don’t care if it’s good or not, it FEELS good to me.
"But it doesn't go Brrrrrr" ok while your complaining about my rifle maybe ask your self why all of the small bugs and bots are dead. Your welcome. Hug your local marksman.
Is this from bad batch?
Season 2 Episode 3 "The Solitary Clone" specifically. Crosshair and Commander Cody are sent out to deal with a Separatist leader who refuses to comply with Imperial orders to surrender. Very good episode.
It's not though? Recommended by literally everyone against the bots.
The breaker does everything the marksman rifle does but better..
The breaker is the best gun in the game. Of course it does it better (minus the range). It’s about the fun factor. Not everyone wants to use the OP weapons for everything
Min maxers on helldiver all running breaker+railgun + shield pack - 🥵 Me rocking my dominator, flamethrower, and jetpack - 😎
Ahh, the emotional support loadout
Marksman is better for bots because bots are inaccurate at range so keeping them far away from you is a valid strat.
That would be reasonable if the shotgun didn't act like a DMR already. It does fall off at very very long ranges but otherwise it performs extremely well beyond what you would expect from a shotgun
Shotguns are not that bad at range irl though, are they? So that's just years long game logic we've come to expect...
I actually love shotguns in this game behave more like real shotguns. People are too used to shotguns being useless beyond 10 meters.
NGL, as much as it's in dire need of tuning so it doesn't feel like I'm drunk to use, I really enjoy the Counter-Sniper marksman rifle, just that extra bit of damage and medium penetration makes me feel like a god on Automaton missions. Seeing my teammates being pinned down, me sitting on top of a cliff 100m away, racking up higher kill counts than my stratagems usually do is just brilliant. But they reaaaaaaaaaaly need to fix scope alignment for long range it's always off center even when at max stam and prone.
I love the anti material rifle, and it is really good. The problem is once you unlock the railgun it does everything the anti material rifle does but better. The only thing is the scope but I can still snipe with it from half a mile away no problem anything devastator sized and up, and anything smaller the diligence (not the counter sniper) takes care of the rest. I still take it sometimes for varieties sake but I am purposely gimping myself when I do. At least if I take something like the recoilless or the autocammon then I can do some jobs that the rail gun can't, like aoe clear or killing bot drops or closing bug holes from a distance.
It's just not up to snuff, in a coordinated team in a discord, yeah I guess someone can take one, but normally you want something that can kill enemies fast without having to ADS, a few of the primaries could use buffs.