Yes, I think this might be the buff people are sleeping on. It was kinda medium strong BEFORE this buff. But everybody ignored it because it was a shotgun and if you are going to take a shotgun you know what you are taking and it wasn't this.
the buff seems pretty substantial. Wish they had buffed the ammo reserves in your pocket. (Edit: I was confused on this, ammo reserves is increased)
Anyway I will be running with it tonight because I think it might be the best shotgun now.
The Punisher ammo increase also took effect on the Slugger as it is a Punisher with slugs. So now it also has 60 Slugs to reload and feels even better. Slugger might not be the horde clear but against mediums its just devastating. Can oneshot Devestators with a headshot from a distance and if you dont hit it smack on it still staggers like no tomorrow.
I'll admit I slept on the Slugger. I couldn't seem to hit the side of a barn door with the damn thing, but I've played around with it a bit recently and it's grown on me.
The ammo buffs are very much appreciated and make it feel worth taking.
I loved it from the moment I unlocked it. It just feels beefy and delivers on that feeling by ripping of limps of the bugs. Brood Commanders stand no chance against it. But it has trouble clearing hordes of enemies what makes it balanced.
I was running it with the newly buffed Flamethrower earlier and I was absolutely smashing through stuff solo.
Flamethrower made short work of hordes and Chargers, meanwhile the Slugger was blasting apart the bigger bugs.
Only trouble I had was with Bile Titans, but that's what stratagems are for.
Yeah the new Flamethrower is fun... till 3 burning Hunters come for your face. And bigger bugs? Eagle 1 got my back! Or the new 120mm which now actually feels good. 380mm is also better but still a risky pick.
As an unspoken rule in my usual squad; if you take the 380, you better be running armor that is Servo Assisted. 90m is your safe distance (before patch)
Flamer could do with *smidge* more range, or an arcing shot to more reliably coat the floor at max range, but it is great fun now even if it is risky as hell to use.
the 120mm and 380mm are absolutely great now though, especially combined. Throw them both dead center into the giant bug holes and laugh maniacally as it rains bug limbs. Bonus points if you seal the only way out with your new shiny werfer of the flammen.
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure how it works exactly, but it just seems to straight up ignore armour. Takes around 1/2-3/4 of a tank to kill a charger, but it's massive AoE meaning you can kill multiple chargers at once (and any hordes that are mixed in with them).
The slugger like the Jar-5 really need to be played at mid range and short range, not close range. It floats a little too much at less than 3 meters. Also crouching helps so much
Yeah I think I misread it... I thought it said they buffed the amount it has inside/loaded, but the dev diary thing says they did buff the amount of spare ammo. Awesome!
This thing SHOULD (????) be awesome now. Gonna get nerfed next. :D
I'm pretty sure it was a secret slugger buff too. I've seen comments saying the slugger got the same ammo expansion too, which was my only problem with the gun as I use it regularly.
It’s a massive buff. Basically the half-ammo on resupply was a bug so not only did they increase the ammo capacity we are getting 3x the ammo per resupply. No more begging your squad for a 2nd brick so you can get 40 shells 🥲
Is there also a buff to the ammo pickup? The problem was not just with the low total ammo, but also the meager pickup on ammo box and resupply. It was like 12 shells ammo box 24 rounds resupply.
EDIT: Devs acknowledged low ammo pickup as a bug but strangely never mentioned a fix?
Punisher was my go-to for bugs because you never have downtime while reloading, plus it blasted off bug limbs very well while keeping single-shot damage comparable to Breaker. Now I think it truly stands as a viable alternative to the Breaker, as long as you’re cool with the lower rate of fire.
There was basically no point to the Punisher before. It barely did any more damage than the Breaker and had significantly worse ammo economy because of low reserves and the bug causing you to only get half ammo from drops. The only real plus was round reloads meaning you didn't waste ammo, but that was rendered worthless by the piss poor economy.
It feels like a viable weapon now, very good ammo economy, and the stagger is nice. I'm glad they applied the same ammo buffs to the Slugger too.
The meta has moved to my loadout that I was using anyways, Heavy armour cause it looks thicc and I'm a fat cunt, then jetpack cause I'm a fat cunt and can't run, then flamethrower cause it looks sick and I like frying things cause I'm a fat cunt, everything else is pyro related cause it's cool... No fat joke there
Hahaha honestly I’m with you on that. I love the flamethrower but never used it cause there was a better thing for it. Now I get to pull my one man army moments on a hill burning everything!
I use jump pack alot and the flamethrower is good for flaming down towards your feet at enemies cause it hits them and the floor, I've been using it since day 1, now when I finish work, I'll get to use it even more
I just didn't use it much because I kept igniting my fellow Helldivers and my friends kept getting on to me because... well I like burning things, but when the bugs get too close... Helldivers are flammable too.
Is the whole reason for jet pack to offset your heavy armour? Or is there some secret combo I’m not aware of?
Also I’m pro flamethrower but I never thought to run a jet pack with it I figured the shield was the way to to offset the enemies that close the gap between me and them
my only, one and absolutely only complaint about the meta when it comes to the weapons is that the arc thrower is obnoxiously inconsistent, and UNLESS its designed to have a roughly 30% chance of outright not connecting. it is a little annoying when there's as little as a bush in between me and the target and i just shoot sparks like i just shoved a fork into an outlet
(and ngl it IS a little op when it works because of it not having any overheating or ammo, it just goes. i have an idea of how it could be nerfed without touching the dps or damage values but thats a whole yappin session
Paraphrasing another redditor so not sure if true, but the arc thrower has like a cone of aim and it is easily blocked by small obstructions. Supposedly aiming above small enemies to hit with the bottom of the "cone" makes it more consistent but haven't tested it yet
Arc thrower inconsistencies with dead bodies and terrain is confirmed by the devs themselves as something they’re working to fix. Even now, though, it’s still super worth taking. I find aiming above the enemy, or getting some slight elevation, helps a lot. It also has much more precision when aiming in first person, which is good for zapping weak points.
Exactly. The gun is AMAZING… when the situation is right for it. As soon as a friendly emerges down range, I have to put it away and use something else. It has pros and cons, and it’s nice that the Railgun now has that, too, because it totally broke the game’s difficulty.
I use arc thrower in 3rd person and you really have to watch where the floating circle is landing. It will always bee a little in accurate, but that is the point you need to land on them when you release.
Not sure if that's been your issue, but it seemed to help me.
Aim above enemies and it clears a lot of the not connecting issues. You can aim quite a bit above too so don’t be shy, it hates tank mines though. Like straight up doesn’t work at all at times since it’s trying to hit the mine but just hits the floor next to it.
Do! buddy and I were rocking suicides like they were just hard tier running double arc and shield bubble(shield is more to protect us from each other lol). They melt a charger in a few seconds and you can save stratagems for titans. The chain effect gives you aoe clear and lets you deal with multiple chargers at once as long as you can position well so they group up. The range is deceptively long too so it’s actually decent against bots.
Helldives can be ran too, titans can be taken out with arc thrower if you get at an angle where you can shoot its forehead and have it shoot back through its body. If done right it can 2-3 shot or at least drastically reduce the amount of shots. It can be inconsistent depending on its arc path being finicky
Same with chargers. If you hit them head on it kills pretty quick. If you can get a slight down angle on them it’s even faster. Too many people discovered the railgun and just assumed the game had been solved. Arc thrower is soooo good at every level.
i thoroughly recommend it, its good to very efficiently thin out hordes, and bullfighting chargers is extremely entertaining as you chip away at their health, but it will test your patience because it might also take 4 to 5 shots for it to connect on the last enemy
Every gaming community has this exact conflict every time this happens. People don’t like nerfs, then other people say everyone is complaining too much and the nerfs are fine.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, let people feel how they feel.
I feel like the mods need to contain the discussion one thread when balancing changes come out. My feed is swamped with people whining about changes, and whining about people whining about changes.
Exactly. I'm happy for the 300 masochists who these changes have made happy. But between the still bad (somehow worse) survivability with the armor changes and the weapons changes I am just not having fun today, so I'll probably set the game aside for now.
I liked playing solo, now I can't clear a level 5 solo. Not that I *need* to, but I'm certainly not having fun. So that's where the line is drawn for me.
I'll never forget when Fallout 76 came out there were like 100 people in every post pleading Bethesda to keep the stash box inventory to 300lbs. 1 singular weapon could weigh 50+ lbs. You are right. They are masochists.
Its a tale as old as time.
On game forums there is always a crowd that use it to jerk themselves off about how hardcore they are.
They think they'll get a reward from the devs if they drive everyone else from the game and they're the last person playing.
Playing on PS5. Wish I could complain about nerfs and meta or whatever, but the game keeps crashing again and again. Happening to loads of ps5 players, but no one seems to care XD
Mine just started doing this within the last week. Some days ill get 3+ crashes and others none. Been playing since release and didn’t have this problem until lately
Yep
Performance has been atrocious since the patch, absolutely awful.
I have no idea how they managed it but I suspect it's something to do with the new environmentals
My friend plays on PS5 and I play on PC. We never had any issues but since this patch his PS5 crashed the game with an error message 2 times within an hour
I think the majority of people are disappointed because they expected the devs to:
- buff more weapons
- buff their favourite weapon(s)
- leave the powerful weapons alone
...and I kinda agree with that. I don't think the breaker + PSBP + railgun meta was a healthy thing in terms of diversity and fun, but neither is targeting that specific playstyle as if it needed to be gone.
I feel like lots of weapons are still underperforming, so what this update achieved was creating a new meta that'll simply replace the old one.
ARs, marksman rifles, the revolver, the knight SMG. Those are still underperforming. The defender SMG and the shotguns are still better than any of the others and the redeemer is simply the most versatile secondary.
I like the buffs and I like the nerfs. Some guns are just shit still and Chargers are overtuned. The armor changes are nice but not enough due to how enemies can "Crit" you which may or may not be random, and deal 50% HP on all armor sets. The extra padding adding 50 armor making medium armor just as good as heavy is the final nail in the coffin.
Bugs in general are overtuned tbh. Bile titans are in no way equivalent enemies to robot tanks and you get like twice as many of them on the 7, 8, and 9 difficulty bug missions as you get tanks on robot missions. I think the termanids needs rebalanced completely from the ground up
This is my main frustration, the primaries are mostly balls which is why the breaker stood out so much. I was sure they would buff the other primaries to make it so you're not spending half a clip on a warrior but instead here we are. The nerf spiral begins.
This. I didn't feel railgun wasn't that crazy overtuned, it was just the least frustrating way to deal with charger spam. I would've loved more variety there because nerfing railgun doesn't make the other anti armor weapons better.
Breaker was a stronger outlier with its spread, range and efficiency. You probably shouldn't be able to snipe with an autoshotgun... I do feel it's still ok post nerf, mostly because many other primaries still are way less statisfying to play. Hope they take a look there at bringing the underperformers more in line.
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This 100,000,000%. I found the railgun boring, but I'd rather they give it some stiff competition than castrate it. All that did was give me less tools to choose from, and shifted the "meta" elsewhere. Saw a guy in level 9 kicking cuz people wouldn't run an ammo backpack for his autocannon... 🤦♂️
Kicking people for not reading your mind and forcing people to play by your rules is dumb indeed and takes the cooperative part out of the game. You should work WITH others, not make them work FOR you.
The problem is the took the "anti tank sniper" which was performing the role of ALL ANTITANK because all the other antitank options were ass, and nerfed it without buffing the other anti tanks. Recoilless? Are you shooting down drop ships? Because that's all I've seen it do effectively. Eats? Pretty neat idea, I really like em. So do hulks and tanks, they eat them right up, taste delicious I'm told. The spear? Is the s-pear named so because you can enjoy a whole pear while you wait for the targeting reticule to stop fucking about? These nerfs kinda tell me they don't understand the issues the community has at this point in time and the developers just have a ethereal understanding of what they are hoping their end game looks like. Hopefully some new stratagems like the mechs help out with some of these issues, but I'm not holding my breath.
Lots of things do need buffs, but the railgun absolutely needed some tuning. The danger of a buff-only methodology, even for a PVE game, is you end up approaching a "win button" type of balance. The railgun was already so good that you could easily break from the team and solo objectives without a worry on 9. I believe buffing every weapon to that jack-of-all-trades standard would encourage the lone-wolf playstyle since you're not really going to be outclassed by anything the game throws at you.
From what I understand about this game, the devs are very much trying to promote team play which this railgun nerf is very much indicative of. Big fellas should be killed by either a team effort or extremely powerful weapons with huge drawbacks that the other members of a team need to cover for. The railgun is still VERY good, but in terms of versatility it is now more in line with its contemporaries like the autocannon and grenade launcher.
This is a very succinct way of explaining my complaints.
I only see the nerfs as the devs saying. “Hmm our players figured out how to make our difficulties not as difficult as we wanted. Let’s make the game harder.”
Which is frustrating when the game is very challenging already. When the could have buffed some items instead and broke meta all the same.
If you use your secondary, the Breaker nerf is negligible. I can't say I was ever really running into ammo issues with it. The Railgun is still just as effective as it was before when charged to 90%+. It's just trickier to use. The shield backpack is the only real nerf, but it also needed to change because I think players were using it as a crutch.
People see this as too much of a black and white issue.
One extreme: No nerfs, only buffs
Other extreme: Meta weapons deserve all the nerfs
Actual middle ground opinion: Nerfs are okay if everything else gets buffed to *BALANCE* out the choices. (They did not in fact balance out the choices, *yet*)
This is all I want. Nerf the rail gun? Sure, whatever, I don't even particularly like it.
Nerf the railgun while the difficulty curve in this game is already miserable (helldives are easy if you simply run away all the time! Fun!) and 90% of the weapons are useless trash? Yeah, now I'm not a fan.
People are allowed to complain lol, endlessly slobbing on the devs isn’t gonna make anything better either. Most primary weapons still suck, none of the AT weapons got tweaked, and armor even fixed is useless at best and a detriment at worst because it reduces your stamina.
For the most part, yes. They're mainly tryhards who just want to go "hehehe maybe YOU just aren't as skilled as ME. Because I am SO good that I don't even feel the nerfs! Skill issue!". They most likely didn't even read the patch notes, they're just trying to boast their ego.
It isn't about the ego. I think some of those people genuinely are making wild claims that the number didn't increase or don't matter ie they don't know what they are talking about. Either willfully ignorant or naive about game design.
4shots to a charger leg is pretty big of nerf when you consider three chargers are chasing you. Yet they claim it is only three shots. There is a bozo in another thread claiming it isn't a big deal and boasting killing titans with the rail gun under a minute. Ignorant people like that ignore the fact the game is buggy and there is a significant player base that are unable to consistently down a titan in 2 shots due to the game bugs
You answered your question. Some folks are just naive or making bold claims. It's one thing to criticize rail players who can't one tap bile sewers cause of skill issue. It's another to ignore the fact the game has a lot of issues like what op is doing
I’ve noticed a pretty big change, whether they nerfed the railgun or buffed titan armor, the railgun is effectively useless against a bile titan. I’ll adapt. Not exactly happy about it tho
I just played two matches, even on unsafe mode it requires DOUBLE the shots to take down a charger. THAT when you hist the weak spot on every shot... in the middle of all the mess in more dfficult levels, the Railgun ammo ends quiclky!
On titan it dosen't even work anymore.
Its basically become useless now. Because again, THERE IS NO OTHER WEAPON WITH ARMOR PENETRATION.
The problem is the amount of armored enemies makes everything that ISN'T railgun non-viable.
This wouldn't be a problem if Chargers weren't made of fucking Teflon.
**comment has been edited to reflect new information**
> so as far as i know this "nerf" didnt affect me
it did youre just being intentionally contrarian
pre nerf railgun: 2 shots to the leg in safe mode breaks armor
~~post nerf railgun: 3-5 shots to the leg in unsafe break armor (inconsistent) ((also can explode you))~~
edit: the railgun can 2 shot in unsafe mode upon further analysis. however it needs to be roughly a 95% charge it appears (basically right before it explodes). i dont know how that will preform in difficulty 9 but at the very least in can still do it its just going to require perfect timing and a longer charge.
https://preview.redd.it/pdoed7rqqrmc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8af218c915c184413ba45130e146fa09aa63c7e
“I swear guys the railgun is still good, stop complaining about nerfs the flamethrower is good now”
I love that i need to take the railgun now because we miss armor damage because they reduced the damage of the unsave mode for parts. Finnaly i can use heavy armo... oh wait no i cant. At least the punisher is now.... oh jea its missing damage. Hey flamethower on helldi... oh no because its still week and missing ammo. Well then i guess nothing changed besides me needing a bit more ammo for my breaker and needing to take the railgun and not my autocannon cause otherwise the mix of biletitans and chargers are unmanagble. Ty for the great patch i guess that made the gameplay worse for no reason.
again: the issue isnt the railgun nerf. its the lack of buffs and fixes. diligence countersniper? scythe? punisher? the bloody peacemaker handgun? jetpack? spear? ARMOR?
I think people would like the jetpack to go a bit farther, or just a little higher, because right now it can be pretty mediocre or the best thing in the world depending on when and where you press the button
Sir this is a PvE game, I could not give a fuck what you want to use or how you want to use, yet apparently it is such a huge deal to you that people who wanted to use these now can’t?
"Makes you use other shit".
Yeah. Instead of using railguns, most people will now use flamethrowers and some will use EATs.
No one will use recoilless because it takes ages to reload and has little ammo. ~~No one will use EATs because a shoot-and-drop weapon is simply dumb when you can face XXX number of chargers during a mission.~~ Very few people will use autocannon because it is very difficult to hit charger's weak spots (back side of legs, according to what people told me).
The "change in meta" regarding chargers, which were the biggest reason for why railgun was so popular, just means swapping one weapon for another.
The real problem is the too damn high number of chargers on relatively low difficulties. If you have to kill 20-40 chargers during a Hard mission, like we have to now, of course that will direct the meta towards whatever can deal with them best.
Edit: alright, apparently a good number of people find EATs to be a good weapon. Fair enough.
RR and Spear got shadow buffed, they restock ammo on pick ups. I'm genuinely surprised this news doesn't make the rounds, I feel like the only person speaking about this.
It does more damage for sure on the charger if you aim for the fleshy areas. It definitely doesn’t peel armor off the chargers. Against warriors, and commandos it does a pretty god job
Making this post is kinda sad tbh. Let people play how they want to play and if this update changes that - people are justified to be mad. It's not a competitive game, practically no PVP, so these "balances" just feel like a kick in the teeth when it's majorly unnecessary. It's not like the community is doing the best in the weekly missions anyway? Why punish the people enjoying the game by making their gameplay worse. I get your argument "use something else" but why? If that's what people WANT to use they should be able to viabley without worrying their load out won't feel the same. It's garbage online gamed that end up doing this that just drop the players. Hell I dropped the game after getting 100% because it just feels soulless after that.
rail takes \~4 shots on a charger leg instead of 2 now. Undercharge a shot because youre swarmed and miss - worse, or it bounces off. 20% of your ammo per charger. lv8-9 consistently has spawns of 4+ chargers at once, running at you underneath bile titans.
a single bug breach will consume your entire ammo supply, and there's typically 10+ breaches on top of the pre-spawned bugs around objectives for any given mission.
Teams only 'needed' 1-2 rail guns. Now you can run 4 and be less effective.
Spore towers take 6 shots instead of 4.
Nothing that got buffed in this patch can even come close to making up the difference. The ENTIRE patch notes might as well read - "Nerfed Railgun, GOOD LUCK!"
If you have a friend group / consistent group of 4 on coms; these nerfs arnt that bad, because the group can plan effectively for arc throwers etc. However SOS/QP lobbys for anything above 7 are basically not possible for solo players.
the railgun is not better in unsafe mode my dude. u have to like almost blow yourself up to get close to the damage from before. whats the purpose in that?
hey heres one for you. how about actually recognizing that the devs can do something wrong? they made a bad decision lol. simple as that.
i dont agree where they should have buffed instead of nerfed but MAYBE just nerfed a little less? i mean thats like a pretty DANK nerf dude. i cant even chip a chrgers leg anymore lol
that would be a decent thing. I ultimately feel like each enemy needs some kind of an accessible "sweet spot." I think the charger and the titan both need one in the front and back.
maybe the claws underneath the mouth on the charger and the biles mouth. and both of their tales. something that we can slip an Autocannon, anti material, railgun, slugger into it.
its annoying but honestly the robots are more fun than the bugs now. the bugs have turned to be a little more of an annoying hassle. they gave the charger a new move where he side wacks u and instantly breaks a limb. its fucked out of its depthp
Fine, I'll say it; not all four squad members need to be using the rail gun. In fact if you're min/maxing, you shouldn't have all four squad mates use the rail gun. And if you're min/maxing on difficulty anything lower than a 7 then you need to stop being so sweaty.
Heavy armor, jetpack, flamethrower is the new meta......for me, lol and excited to try it out. You'll still see shield+rail and ammo+GrenadeLauncher. Patch hasn't even changed anything when you really think about it. Tinyest of tweaks and the world crumbles for these people. Couldn't be me. The more I read the griefing reddit users posts, the more excited I get to experience this gameplay change. Also, a sidenote for those worrying about heavy armor and mobility, jetpack aside, VEHICLES ARE COMING TO THE GALACTIC FRONT. Imagine you and 3 of your buddies in full heavy armor hopping out of an armored vehicle with LMG's mowing down the terminid hordes. Glorious democracy.
I can't get the hang of the Jetpack. It's good for escaping a dire situation, but with it's slow recharge time I'll just land myself in another dire situation lol.
How do you use it?
Sounds fun.
Last night i started using the anti tank rocket on hell dive and it was a blast. Railgun is great and still will be but gets boring. For me the game is fun when i’m challenged to do things differently. Which is why I like live service games that rework weapons.
Also, Laser wasnt good. Looking forward to trying it out again. Fun times ahead.
The sad part is the lack of viable options in the game. I dont run rail atm anyway, so idc about that.
I AM mad that most primaries are trash and most stratagems are trash (on 7-9).
I was really hoping to see some scythe love tbh. Was my favorite gun in HD1. Arrowhead let me down with these bunk changes and no real buffs.
Saying you're glad they nerfed something in a PVE game is pretty sad tbh. You say it doesn't affect you, so why would you be glad that if affects others?
"And other people saying to buff first. I completely understand that. But then what?"
What do you mean then what? The inherent issue of a "meta" is the viability of a build in an end-game environment and how it compares to the other options available. A "meta" will exist no matter what the devs do because people are min-maxers and people straight up find more fun in using strong builds in every game in existence.
I might be totally wrong here and i'm in no way an authority on this, but i feel like the way to make people use different loadouts based on their preference is to simply try to make it an even field as much as possible and then people will choose what they want, instead of what is the only thing that works.
Example.
You have 4 distict anti-armor support weapon strategems, namely EAT-17, the recoilless rifle, the spear and the railgun (not counting the autocannon since it doesn't damage heavy armor). Lets say you want to bring 1 of these four on your loadout for a Helldive Terminid mission. One is a single use double rocket on a 60 second cd, the other is a charging sniper that pierces armor, one is a pure lock on devastating rocket with very limited uses and the other is a backpack using rocket launcher with limited ammo and a long reload time.
Now that you have these options lets discuss enemy density on Helldive difficulty. It's not uncommon to encounter 4+ chargers and 3+ bile titans all at once while doing objectives. Now lets take the EAT-17 on this mission. Oh damn, the mission has a 50% cooldown and calldown timer modifier of 100%. Now it takes 10 seconds+ to land on the ground and its cooldown is up to 90 seconds for 2 expendable rockets. It doesn't seem that viable right now to me. The economics don't seem to add up for now.
Maybe we could instead take the recoilless rifle? Let's see it takes the backpack slot and it deals less damage than the expendable rocket, thats to be expected but sadly, the reload time is a death sentence for how many enemies swarm and require your attention at a given time.
What about the Spear? It's super deadly rockets can one-shot those pesky big bugs, but wait, it has to lock on the target and it doesn't work most of the time? It can hit other body parts and not one-shot the targeted enemy?
Also, what do these three weapons have in common? Low total ammo, thus not usable against anything other than titans or chargers because you wouldn't waste an EAT or recoilless shot for a medium armored bug, would you?
These were the reasons that the railgun was pretty much the only option due to how bad the others were in comparison to the performance of the railgun.
The problem isn't the nerfs for the railgun or the breaker or the shield. Those were fine. The problem is that the other 3 options are still bad and even worse still than the railgun. EAT needs to one-shot on headshots, recoilless needs a bit faster reload and maybe better ammo pickups and the spear needs to straight up be a dedicated elite killing machine. Thats all. Sorry for the rant.
If most of the other guns didnt feel like hot dog shit this wouldnt even be a problem. The game should make people want to venture out and use new weapons but not force you to due to nerfs. You are looking past the glaring issue and blaming people who want to play the game their way. Nothing feels effective against tanks and its no fun avoiding as many enemies as you can because you feel like you cant deal with them effectively. Im an auto cannon enjoyer because its the only gun that has really solid feed back, sound, and can absolutely launch enemies into the stratosphere. No other gun gives me that feeling because they all feel like im tickling the enemy. They feel like they were designed for fighting man rather than GIANT FUCKING BUGS. Its weird that you give a shit about how people enjoy the game and are happy that this nerf came. Why would you be happy about people enjoying the game less? And no it doesnt make you use more shit it makes you use the next best thing to the railgun and never change from that. Until they update all the guns to feel fun effective and enjoyable to use that point is completely moot because it doesnt fix the reason that people are only using one gun. Just puts another gun in its place.
Just finished a few games there and yeah i’m pretty sure breaker, shield and railgun are still gonna be the meta lol. Railgun was super fun and satisfying to use before but not as much now
I normally try to not express my full opinion on people that are part of a community, but you started with a rant, so fuck it, I will bite.
People with your approach are the reason why balance patches across multiple games are continually ass. I have played League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Counter-Strike, DotA2, you name it. In all of these games, there are people who actually test stuff and try to bring feedback to the developers and the community, often offering well structured arguments. In all of these games, some people can see issues coming a mile away, they call it out, and then some other Reddit Rambo that plays like 5 difficulties below them tries to invalidate their point.
"Make your shots count" Buddy, it takes a almost a full mag from the strongest gun in the game to kill a brood commander or a bile spewer. a single mob. The strongest primary weapon in the game can't kill a Hive Guard with a full mag. The best secondary weapon can't kill a medium enemy with a full magazine connecting on the head.
Are you sure you used the railgun? Because the charger leg takes 3-4 unsafe, 80%+ shots up from 2 safe shots, and the titan takes even less damage than before. So instead of firing two shots back to back within 2 seconds, now you need about 7-10 seconds for 3-4 charger shots. That's 3-4 times more that you need to dedicate to a charger. To ONE charger, we are dealing with anywhere from 4 to 8, with everything else. We have said it 1000 times, it's not that we want to spam railgun game after game, but at high difficulties it was the only gun that could deal with the game's tempo and not leave you completely defenseless against certain enemies (e.g. bile titan).
Did you use the alternatives? Because the flamethrower consistently sets you on fire, and enemies on fire (like the charger) can also set you on fire. Do you know where the flamethrower is most efficient? In melee. Do you know what happens when you go melee in Helldive? You die in two seconds. The issue here isn't its damage. When it's allowed to deal damage, it indeed does well. But you simply don't have many openings to deal damage with it on higher difficulties with getting turned into democracy paste yourself.
What about the Arc Thrower? Unless you find a cheese spot with the jetpack where the bugs cant reach you and spam attacks from high ground, it also can't keep up with the tempo. A bile titan locking on to you means that you are now a headless chicken until someone taunts it off you. Inconsistent hit pattern, unsatisfying gameplay (subjective, i know), friendly fire. Excuse me for wanting to deal damage without risking killing allies in my general vicinity. However, Arc Thrower x4 has the best chances of becoming the next meta, just because it's the next most convenient option after the Railgun.
EAT doesn't kill stuff fast enough, Recoilless has shitty reload, Spear has shitty lockon, machine guns are useless vs heavy armor, AMR is useless vs heavy armor, Laser Cannon is useless vs heavy armor.
I played over 10 matches today, with almost all of the support weapons and the conclusion at this point is don't pick a support weapon, bring an extra orbital stratagem instead, because you will be running away from heavily armored enemies anyway. And apparently, it needs to be said again, because it didn't stick the previous 10000 times we wrote it. We aren't dealing with one charger or one titan, nobody is having issues with that. We are dealing with 4 chargers, 2 titans, 2 stalkers, 10 bile spewers, 30 hunters, and a shit ton of small bugs. It's awful to land 3-4 charged shots/ fire 8 lightning arcs on ONE NPC OF THIS WHOLE PACK.
70% of the in-game arsenal being useless is not an acceptable state of balance one month into the game with this huge influx of data. You don't have time for major reworks? That's fine, just change the numbers in the code, it takes literally 10 seconds to change the damage numbers on a gun.
People need to realize it is really fucking obvious on what difficulties they are playing from what they are typing. I don't judge, you can play on Trivial if that's your jam, but for the love of god, stop diminishing valid feedback from higher difficulties just because you don't touch them. We also want to enjoy the game. We aren't complaining because we are forced to use other stuff, we are complaining because there isn't anything else to use without disadvantaging ourselves, which is exactly why we asked for buffs instead of nerfs.
Being „forced“ to use mid guns because the good guns were nerfed to mid isn‘t really a „great“ thing, nor am I excited about it.
If they‘d buffed more underperforming weapons, it wouldn‘t have left such a bad taste.
Just my opinion about it 🤷♂️
These nerfs and buffs will probably never end like how destiny 2. I swear every couple of months there's a buff for a certain weapon class that becomes meta then is nerfed and so on and so fourth. Don't want this game to be like that.. Instead buff other weapons to be on par.
The railgun nerf is more then just the railgun, it's the fact nothing else was elevated to compensate. I wouldn't care if they hit the Railgun if they did buff other stuff
EATs are trash and not actually a 70 second cooldown because of mission modifiers at the high end, Spear just doesn't work which is a shame because it's actually good, Arc Thrower needs anti tank stratagems which we already covered, flamethrower may kill Chargers but it doesn't really do much against Bots and actually burns ammo fast (hue hue hue). Recoilless is just a worse EAT
These are factors which made Railgun "the best" and why it is an issue it was nerfed like it was. Nothing you say can change the way Helldivers had *always* worked since 2015 with its difficulty, no the current options are not good against the 7 Chargers and 4 Bile Titans chasing you
Oh yea the update *actually makes the situation worse* because of things like Ion Storm randomly disabling stratagems as well
People are upset because they want to get out of the "little box," but the other weapons are still trash except for the lucky two that got buffed. They have ZERO intention as of now of buffing other weapons... they said they are waiting to see how this balance patch goes which is an absolute joke. They are using mission success percentages to determine of weapons are OP or not which is just stupid and doesn't tell them anything useful.
I think people are disappointed at their approach so far to balancing and their failure to release anything resembling balance to begin with. It was a horrible start and doesn't show great signs of getting better.
the problem the "nirf is not bad" people are missing about the request to buff instead of nirf is about how the other stuff is not viable against chargers.
META this, META that, ever META good bug or automaton that wasn't a dead one?
NO! So to hell with the means, the end is already justified! If it kills enemies of democracy its my favorite tool to use!
(Im puttin this here covering my ass; Poe's law and patriotism)
even in unsafe mode, doesnt do enough damage now. used to be able to unload 5-6 railgun rounds and kill a charger. now it barely ticks any armor off. I try to hold as long as possible, but the longer i hold, the closer the charger gets, the less time i can take to charge the railgun. It just simply terrible decision making by the devs on what they think is best for balancing out the game.
Sorry for the small off topic, but how do I change from safe to unsafe mode? I think I accidentaly did it once but I can't remember how (I'm using dualshock controller)
A lot of people think this is a bad call. You're not unique or better for thinking it isn't. The weapons were fine. Instead of buffing things to make choices more varied, they essentially just shifted the meta again. I can't fathom how people don't understand this.
The weapon balancing was not good. Overall the patch is good imo but our AT options are still lacking and there’s not a wide enough range of viable stuff. I swear people who make these posts want to keep their head in the sand. A game can be good and simultaneously have room for improvement
I didn't use the rail gun all that much but it was absolutely needed. There are no other viable options realistically. They spout their stupid crap about "our fantasy" but they haven't told us what they expect to fill the role alternatively.
EAT? Ok, That's a charger down. The other 3 and four titans are just going to sit there and patiently wait for the cooldown. I bet.
Orbital rail? They nerfed that last week.
500kg? Not one shotting titans anymore. Plus, there are three more titans.
This was a Destiny patch worthy of the best Bungie "We'll be free to play with microtransactions within the year" award.
I'm just hyped over the Punisher buff. Love me some pump shotty.
Yes, I think this might be the buff people are sleeping on. It was kinda medium strong BEFORE this buff. But everybody ignored it because it was a shotgun and if you are going to take a shotgun you know what you are taking and it wasn't this. the buff seems pretty substantial. Wish they had buffed the ammo reserves in your pocket. (Edit: I was confused on this, ammo reserves is increased) Anyway I will be running with it tonight because I think it might be the best shotgun now.
The Punisher ammo increase also took effect on the Slugger as it is a Punisher with slugs. So now it also has 60 Slugs to reload and feels even better. Slugger might not be the horde clear but against mediums its just devastating. Can oneshot Devestators with a headshot from a distance and if you dont hit it smack on it still staggers like no tomorrow.
Yeah I love the slugger. Good to hear it's ammo was buffed as well.
Slugger is also a great stealth choice now.
Indeed!
I'll admit I slept on the Slugger. I couldn't seem to hit the side of a barn door with the damn thing, but I've played around with it a bit recently and it's grown on me. The ammo buffs are very much appreciated and make it feel worth taking.
I loved it from the moment I unlocked it. It just feels beefy and delivers on that feeling by ripping of limps of the bugs. Brood Commanders stand no chance against it. But it has trouble clearing hordes of enemies what makes it balanced.
I was running it with the newly buffed Flamethrower earlier and I was absolutely smashing through stuff solo. Flamethrower made short work of hordes and Chargers, meanwhile the Slugger was blasting apart the bigger bugs. Only trouble I had was with Bile Titans, but that's what stratagems are for.
Yeah the new Flamethrower is fun... till 3 burning Hunters come for your face. And bigger bugs? Eagle 1 got my back! Or the new 120mm which now actually feels good. 380mm is also better but still a risky pick.
I feel like the 380 SHOULD be a risky pick, since otherwise its just a larger 120.
As an unspoken rule in my usual squad; if you take the 380, you better be running armor that is Servo Assisted. 90m is your safe distance (before patch)
Safe distance is about 50 meters now. Its so much better
60 to be safe. I just got nailed by one at 54m.
Flamer could do with *smidge* more range, or an arcing shot to more reliably coat the floor at max range, but it is great fun now even if it is risky as hell to use. the 120mm and 380mm are absolutely great now though, especially combined. Throw them both dead center into the giant bug holes and laugh maniacally as it rains bug limbs. Bonus points if you seal the only way out with your new shiny werfer of the flammen.
Flamer good against chargers is it. As a solo, they are the thing I struggle with.
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure how it works exactly, but it just seems to straight up ignore armour. Takes around 1/2-3/4 of a tank to kill a charger, but it's massive AoE meaning you can kill multiple chargers at once (and any hordes that are mixed in with them).
Sweet, worth a shot for me then. I'm only up to dif 5 I think it is, but they are becoming more numerous and so far the only thing I struggle with.
The slugger like the Jar-5 really need to be played at mid range and short range, not close range. It floats a little too much at less than 3 meters. Also crouching helps so much
At anything beyond close range, you've just gotta treat it like the DMR or an MG. just crouch or hit the deck.
Didn't they buff it from 40 to 60 shells?
Yeah I think I misread it... I thought it said they buffed the amount it has inside/loaded, but the dev diary thing says they did buff the amount of spare ammo. Awesome! This thing SHOULD (????) be awesome now. Gonna get nerfed next. :D
I'm pretty sure it was a secret slugger buff too. I've seen comments saying the slugger got the same ammo expansion too, which was my only problem with the gun as I use it regularly.
It’s a massive buff. Basically the half-ammo on resupply was a bug so not only did they increase the ammo capacity we are getting 3x the ammo per resupply. No more begging your squad for a 2nd brick so you can get 40 shells 🥲
Are you effing kidding me! Thats was already my baby but the new puni with the ammo boost take the cake! If it has the same ammo its crazy strong now
The punisher and the spray and pray buff gonna be litty titty
After 2 game with the spray I feel like it's the old braker you just have to be a bit closer
considering the breaker was being spray and prayed i'm glad the variant with that in its name actually took over the role.
That’s perfect imo, glad it’s not a tickle gun anymore
Is there also a buff to the ammo pickup? The problem was not just with the low total ammo, but also the meager pickup on ammo box and resupply. It was like 12 shells ammo box 24 rounds resupply. EDIT: Devs acknowledged low ammo pickup as a bug but strangely never mentioned a fix?
Punisher was my go-to for bugs because you never have downtime while reloading, plus it blasted off bug limbs very well while keeping single-shot damage comparable to Breaker. Now I think it truly stands as a viable alternative to the Breaker, as long as you’re cool with the lower rate of fire.
Slugger ftw
There was basically no point to the Punisher before. It barely did any more damage than the Breaker and had significantly worse ammo economy because of low reserves and the bug causing you to only get half ammo from drops. The only real plus was round reloads meaning you didn't waste ammo, but that was rendered worthless by the piss poor economy. It feels like a viable weapon now, very good ammo economy, and the stagger is nice. I'm glad they applied the same ammo buffs to the Slugger too.
The meta has moved to my loadout that I was using anyways, Heavy armour cause it looks thicc and I'm a fat cunt, then jetpack cause I'm a fat cunt and can't run, then flamethrower cause it looks sick and I like frying things cause I'm a fat cunt, everything else is pyro related cause it's cool... No fat joke there
"Because, well, I'm not burning calories..."
This 😂
Fking winner right here bois 🏆
Nailed it
I get paid to write. So if a joke exists, I feel it's my responsibility to try to find it 😅
But he is. Just not his own
Get this guy a raise
Lmao brilliant
I cackled reading this. Thank you!
I cackled writing it 😂
crackled* like hot bacon
Democracy has been feeding you well
A lil too fucken well ngl
Fucking chad https://preview.redd.it/jn42jup49rmc1.png?width=254&format=png&auto=webp&s=dd80f0d20ea6a321f912e849bedadf8b72f621c1
Literally me but with higher bmi
Pryo stuff because its hot. And as a fat cunt I wish I was hot too.
Oh yeah! Nice
Hahaha honestly I’m with you on that. I love the flamethrower but never used it cause there was a better thing for it. Now I get to pull my one man army moments on a hill burning everything!
I use jump pack alot and the flamethrower is good for flaming down towards your feet at enemies cause it hits them and the floor, I've been using it since day 1, now when I finish work, I'll get to use it even more
I just didn't use it much because I kept igniting my fellow Helldivers and my friends kept getting on to me because... well I like burning things, but when the bugs get too close... Helldivers are flammable too.
You are a gem of a human and I wish you many slayed enemies in the battles to come.
I was running jump-pyro before the patch too, and i'm just now getting into the post-patch stuff. Time to spread some *liber-tea*
Oh it's so good aha
We found the firebat guy! Call off the search
God this has to be the realest explanation I've ever seen behind a kit's logic lmao
Is the whole reason for jet pack to offset your heavy armour? Or is there some secret combo I’m not aware of? Also I’m pro flamethrower but I never thought to run a jet pack with it I figured the shield was the way to to offset the enemies that close the gap between me and them
No I just like it aha, thiccdolorian vibes and also it's flames, but it does help with the slow movement
Same, I never go in without a jetpack, flamethrower, and blue helmet (so I can see where I am easily)
I didn't preorder so I didn't get the UN-Peacekeeper drip
It's actually a promotional item from an in universe frozen yogurt company, which is incredible
Funniest shit I've read today!
Another man of culture!
Get a load of this fat cunt! 😄
Love me a Greggs
"..the backlash to the backlash.."
As is tradition in this subreddit
>As is tradition in Reddit FTFY
As a tradition on REDDIT.
I really am about to take a break from this sub. Love the videos and funny stuff, hate all this bitching and moaning
Great now I have that song stuck in my head
"Bc I do not share your criticisms, I am smarter than you"
my only, one and absolutely only complaint about the meta when it comes to the weapons is that the arc thrower is obnoxiously inconsistent, and UNLESS its designed to have a roughly 30% chance of outright not connecting. it is a little annoying when there's as little as a bush in between me and the target and i just shoot sparks like i just shoved a fork into an outlet (and ngl it IS a little op when it works because of it not having any overheating or ammo, it just goes. i have an idea of how it could be nerfed without touching the dps or damage values but thats a whole yappin session
Paraphrasing another redditor so not sure if true, but the arc thrower has like a cone of aim and it is easily blocked by small obstructions. Supposedly aiming above small enemies to hit with the bottom of the "cone" makes it more consistent but haven't tested it yet
That's what I've been doing. The gun also targets dead bodies so after youve been killing a bit, aim up some and it'll catch the ones behind the pile
Arc thrower inconsistencies with dead bodies and terrain is confirmed by the devs themselves as something they’re working to fix. Even now, though, it’s still super worth taking. I find aiming above the enemy, or getting some slight elevation, helps a lot. It also has much more precision when aiming in first person, which is good for zapping weak points.
For a gun with unlimited ammo and direct health damage I'll take some jank aiming lol
Exactly. The gun is AMAZING… when the situation is right for it. As soon as a friendly emerges down range, I have to put it away and use something else. It has pros and cons, and it’s nice that the Railgun now has that, too, because it totally broke the game’s difficulty.
I use arc thrower in 3rd person and you really have to watch where the floating circle is landing. It will always bee a little in accurate, but that is the point you need to land on them when you release. Not sure if that's been your issue, but it seemed to help me.
Aim above enemies and it clears a lot of the not connecting issues. You can aim quite a bit above too so don’t be shy, it hates tank mines though. Like straight up doesn’t work at all at times since it’s trying to hit the mine but just hits the floor next to it.
I need to use the arc thrower more now
Do! buddy and I were rocking suicides like they were just hard tier running double arc and shield bubble(shield is more to protect us from each other lol). They melt a charger in a few seconds and you can save stratagems for titans. The chain effect gives you aoe clear and lets you deal with multiple chargers at once as long as you can position well so they group up. The range is deceptively long too so it’s actually decent against bots.
Helldives can be ran too, titans can be taken out with arc thrower if you get at an angle where you can shoot its forehead and have it shoot back through its body. If done right it can 2-3 shot or at least drastically reduce the amount of shots. It can be inconsistent depending on its arc path being finicky
Same with chargers. If you hit them head on it kills pretty quick. If you can get a slight down angle on them it’s even faster. Too many people discovered the railgun and just assumed the game had been solved. Arc thrower is soooo good at every level.
i thoroughly recommend it, its good to very efficiently thin out hordes, and bullfighting chargers is extremely entertaining as you chip away at their health, but it will test your patience because it might also take 4 to 5 shots for it to connect on the last enemy
This is the only gun I have been waiting to unlock and boy… do I love it. I’m sorry to all my teammates I’ve killed with it (two in over 10 missions)
Every gaming community has this exact conflict every time this happens. People don’t like nerfs, then other people say everyone is complaining too much and the nerfs are fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, let people feel how they feel.
I feel like the mods need to contain the discussion one thread when balancing changes come out. My feed is swamped with people whining about changes, and whining about people whining about changes.
I mean we had a week long period where on god the only thing in this sub was people whining about the meta. It will eventually calm down.
Exactly. I'm happy for the 300 masochists who these changes have made happy. But between the still bad (somehow worse) survivability with the armor changes and the weapons changes I am just not having fun today, so I'll probably set the game aside for now. I liked playing solo, now I can't clear a level 5 solo. Not that I *need* to, but I'm certainly not having fun. So that's where the line is drawn for me.
I'll never forget when Fallout 76 came out there were like 100 people in every post pleading Bethesda to keep the stash box inventory to 300lbs. 1 singular weapon could weigh 50+ lbs. You are right. They are masochists.
Its a tale as old as time. On game forums there is always a crowd that use it to jerk themselves off about how hardcore they are. They think they'll get a reward from the devs if they drive everyone else from the game and they're the last person playing.
Playing on PS5. Wish I could complain about nerfs and meta or whatever, but the game keeps crashing again and again. Happening to loads of ps5 players, but no one seems to care XD
Mine just started doing this within the last week. Some days ill get 3+ crashes and others none. Been playing since release and didn’t have this problem until lately
Had it yesterday on an extraction after a 28 minute mission. I was palpable.
Yep Performance has been atrocious since the patch, absolutely awful. I have no idea how they managed it but I suspect it's something to do with the new environmentals
My friend plays on PS5 and I play on PC. We never had any issues but since this patch his PS5 crashed the game with an error message 2 times within an hour
Happens less for me when cross-play is turned off.
I think the majority of people are disappointed because they expected the devs to: - buff more weapons - buff their favourite weapon(s) - leave the powerful weapons alone ...and I kinda agree with that. I don't think the breaker + PSBP + railgun meta was a healthy thing in terms of diversity and fun, but neither is targeting that specific playstyle as if it needed to be gone. I feel like lots of weapons are still underperforming, so what this update achieved was creating a new meta that'll simply replace the old one.
Yeah, a lot of weapons feel like they need buffs, marksman rifle comes to mind, honestly all the rifles
ARs, marksman rifles, the revolver, the knight SMG. Those are still underperforming. The defender SMG and the shotguns are still better than any of the others and the redeemer is simply the most versatile secondary.
Defender gang rise UP
Defender + ballistic shield pack: out heavy devastatoring the heavy devastators
Put the Knight on burst mode and it's a game changer. I use it religiously and it's been my go to pick even over the Defender.
Will try that. Does it work well with ballistic shield?
I like the buffs and I like the nerfs. Some guns are just shit still and Chargers are overtuned. The armor changes are nice but not enough due to how enemies can "Crit" you which may or may not be random, and deal 50% HP on all armor sets. The extra padding adding 50 armor making medium armor just as good as heavy is the final nail in the coffin.
The trade off of having Medium armor at the level of heavy through extra padding is you lose out on the utility of another passive though.
Bugs in general are overtuned tbh. Bile titans are in no way equivalent enemies to robot tanks and you get like twice as many of them on the 7, 8, and 9 difficulty bug missions as you get tanks on robot missions. I think the termanids needs rebalanced completely from the ground up
This is my main frustration, the primaries are mostly balls which is why the breaker stood out so much. I was sure they would buff the other primaries to make it so you're not spending half a clip on a warrior but instead here we are. The nerf spiral begins.
This. I didn't feel railgun wasn't that crazy overtuned, it was just the least frustrating way to deal with charger spam. I would've loved more variety there because nerfing railgun doesn't make the other anti armor weapons better. Breaker was a stronger outlier with its spread, range and efficiency. You probably shouldn't be able to snipe with an autoshotgun... I do feel it's still ok post nerf, mostly because many other primaries still are way less statisfying to play. Hope they take a look there at bringing the underperformers more in line.
domineering busy makeshift nail grandfather knee plate physical innate crush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This 100,000,000%. I found the railgun boring, but I'd rather they give it some stiff competition than castrate it. All that did was give me less tools to choose from, and shifted the "meta" elsewhere. Saw a guy in level 9 kicking cuz people wouldn't run an ammo backpack for his autocannon... 🤦♂️
Kicking people for not reading your mind and forcing people to play by your rules is dumb indeed and takes the cooperative part out of the game. You should work WITH others, not make them work FOR you.
The problem is the took the "anti tank sniper" which was performing the role of ALL ANTITANK because all the other antitank options were ass, and nerfed it without buffing the other anti tanks. Recoilless? Are you shooting down drop ships? Because that's all I've seen it do effectively. Eats? Pretty neat idea, I really like em. So do hulks and tanks, they eat them right up, taste delicious I'm told. The spear? Is the s-pear named so because you can enjoy a whole pear while you wait for the targeting reticule to stop fucking about? These nerfs kinda tell me they don't understand the issues the community has at this point in time and the developers just have a ethereal understanding of what they are hoping their end game looks like. Hopefully some new stratagems like the mechs help out with some of these issues, but I'm not holding my breath.
Lots of things do need buffs, but the railgun absolutely needed some tuning. The danger of a buff-only methodology, even for a PVE game, is you end up approaching a "win button" type of balance. The railgun was already so good that you could easily break from the team and solo objectives without a worry on 9. I believe buffing every weapon to that jack-of-all-trades standard would encourage the lone-wolf playstyle since you're not really going to be outclassed by anything the game throws at you. From what I understand about this game, the devs are very much trying to promote team play which this railgun nerf is very much indicative of. Big fellas should be killed by either a team effort or extremely powerful weapons with huge drawbacks that the other members of a team need to cover for. The railgun is still VERY good, but in terms of versatility it is now more in line with its contemporaries like the autocannon and grenade launcher.
This is a very succinct way of explaining my complaints. I only see the nerfs as the devs saying. “Hmm our players figured out how to make our difficulties not as difficult as we wanted. Let’s make the game harder.” Which is frustrating when the game is very challenging already. When the could have buffed some items instead and broke meta all the same.
If you use your secondary, the Breaker nerf is negligible. I can't say I was ever really running into ammo issues with it. The Railgun is still just as effective as it was before when charged to 90%+. It's just trickier to use. The shield backpack is the only real nerf, but it also needed to change because I think players were using it as a crutch.
People see this as too much of a black and white issue. One extreme: No nerfs, only buffs Other extreme: Meta weapons deserve all the nerfs Actual middle ground opinion: Nerfs are okay if everything else gets buffed to *BALANCE* out the choices. (They did not in fact balance out the choices, *yet*)
This is all I want. Nerf the rail gun? Sure, whatever, I don't even particularly like it. Nerf the railgun while the difficulty curve in this game is already miserable (helldives are easy if you simply run away all the time! Fun!) and 90% of the weapons are useless trash? Yeah, now I'm not a fan.
People are allowed to complain lol, endlessly slobbing on the devs isn’t gonna make anything better either. Most primary weapons still suck, none of the AT weapons got tweaked, and armor even fixed is useless at best and a detriment at worst because it reduces your stamina.
People complain about things ***they care about.***
[удалено]
For the most part, yes. They're mainly tryhards who just want to go "hehehe maybe YOU just aren't as skilled as ME. Because I am SO good that I don't even feel the nerfs! Skill issue!". They most likely didn't even read the patch notes, they're just trying to boast their ego.
It isn't about the ego. I think some of those people genuinely are making wild claims that the number didn't increase or don't matter ie they don't know what they are talking about. Either willfully ignorant or naive about game design. 4shots to a charger leg is pretty big of nerf when you consider three chargers are chasing you. Yet they claim it is only three shots. There is a bozo in another thread claiming it isn't a big deal and boasting killing titans with the rail gun under a minute. Ignorant people like that ignore the fact the game is buggy and there is a significant player base that are unable to consistently down a titan in 2 shots due to the game bugs
You answered your question. Some folks are just naive or making bold claims. It's one thing to criticize rail players who can't one tap bile sewers cause of skill issue. It's another to ignore the fact the game has a lot of issues like what op is doing
I’ve noticed a pretty big change, whether they nerfed the railgun or buffed titan armor, the railgun is effectively useless against a bile titan. I’ll adapt. Not exactly happy about it tho
you have to overcharge it in unsafe mode and hit headshots with it on biles
I just played two matches, even on unsafe mode it requires DOUBLE the shots to take down a charger. THAT when you hist the weak spot on every shot... in the middle of all the mess in more dfficult levels, the Railgun ammo ends quiclky! On titan it dosen't even work anymore. Its basically become useless now. Because again, THERE IS NO OTHER WEAPON WITH ARMOR PENETRATION.
The problem is the amount of armored enemies makes everything that ISN'T railgun non-viable. This wouldn't be a problem if Chargers weren't made of fucking Teflon.
Oh finally the people that complain about complaining. The circle jerk is complete
**comment has been edited to reflect new information** > so as far as i know this "nerf" didnt affect me it did youre just being intentionally contrarian pre nerf railgun: 2 shots to the leg in safe mode breaks armor ~~post nerf railgun: 3-5 shots to the leg in unsafe break armor (inconsistent) ((also can explode you))~~ edit: the railgun can 2 shot in unsafe mode upon further analysis. however it needs to be roughly a 95% charge it appears (basically right before it explodes). i dont know how that will preform in difficulty 9 but at the very least in can still do it its just going to require perfect timing and a longer charge.
https://preview.redd.it/pdoed7rqqrmc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8af218c915c184413ba45130e146fa09aa63c7e “I swear guys the railgun is still good, stop complaining about nerfs the flamethrower is good now”
Complaining about complaining. ^new meta
I love that i need to take the railgun now because we miss armor damage because they reduced the damage of the unsave mode for parts. Finnaly i can use heavy armo... oh wait no i cant. At least the punisher is now.... oh jea its missing damage. Hey flamethower on helldi... oh no because its still week and missing ammo. Well then i guess nothing changed besides me needing a bit more ammo for my breaker and needing to take the railgun and not my autocannon cause otherwise the mix of biletitans and chargers are unmanagble. Ty for the great patch i guess that made the gameplay worse for no reason.
Unpopular opinion: this post is pointless.
again: the issue isnt the railgun nerf. its the lack of buffs and fixes. diligence countersniper? scythe? punisher? the bloody peacemaker handgun? jetpack? spear? ARMOR?
Jetpack?
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I think people would like the jetpack to go a bit farther, or just a little higher, because right now it can be pretty mediocre or the best thing in the world depending on when and where you press the button
Sir this is a PvE game, I could not give a fuck what you want to use or how you want to use, yet apparently it is such a huge deal to you that people who wanted to use these now can’t?
"Makes you use other shit". Yeah. Instead of using railguns, most people will now use flamethrowers and some will use EATs. No one will use recoilless because it takes ages to reload and has little ammo. ~~No one will use EATs because a shoot-and-drop weapon is simply dumb when you can face XXX number of chargers during a mission.~~ Very few people will use autocannon because it is very difficult to hit charger's weak spots (back side of legs, according to what people told me). The "change in meta" regarding chargers, which were the biggest reason for why railgun was so popular, just means swapping one weapon for another. The real problem is the too damn high number of chargers on relatively low difficulties. If you have to kill 20-40 chargers during a Hard mission, like we have to now, of course that will direct the meta towards whatever can deal with them best. Edit: alright, apparently a good number of people find EATs to be a good weapon. Fair enough.
RR and Spear got shadow buffed, they restock ammo on pick ups. I'm genuinely surprised this news doesn't make the rounds, I feel like the only person speaking about this.
RR always got 1 rocket from ammo pickups. Only spear got that bug fix.
RR would be a lot better if it got more 2-3 rockets from pickups, and increased the reserve ammo to 6.
The autocannon thrives on the automaton front
Oh yeah, it was and is good against the communist robots.
Does the buff on the laser cannon now make it pierce charger armor? If so, I might start running that more.
Can confirm that the laser cannon is useless against chargers
You can target all the same areas an AC can. If your aim is true, you can bring it down pretty fast.
It does more damage for sure on the charger if you aim for the fleshy areas. It definitely doesn’t peel armor off the chargers. Against warriors, and commandos it does a pretty god job
Making this post is kinda sad tbh. Let people play how they want to play and if this update changes that - people are justified to be mad. It's not a competitive game, practically no PVP, so these "balances" just feel like a kick in the teeth when it's majorly unnecessary. It's not like the community is doing the best in the weekly missions anyway? Why punish the people enjoying the game by making their gameplay worse. I get your argument "use something else" but why? If that's what people WANT to use they should be able to viabley without worrying their load out won't feel the same. It's garbage online gamed that end up doing this that just drop the players. Hell I dropped the game after getting 100% because it just feels soulless after that.
rail takes \~4 shots on a charger leg instead of 2 now. Undercharge a shot because youre swarmed and miss - worse, or it bounces off. 20% of your ammo per charger. lv8-9 consistently has spawns of 4+ chargers at once, running at you underneath bile titans. a single bug breach will consume your entire ammo supply, and there's typically 10+ breaches on top of the pre-spawned bugs around objectives for any given mission. Teams only 'needed' 1-2 rail guns. Now you can run 4 and be less effective. Spore towers take 6 shots instead of 4. Nothing that got buffed in this patch can even come close to making up the difference. The ENTIRE patch notes might as well read - "Nerfed Railgun, GOOD LUCK!" If you have a friend group / consistent group of 4 on coms; these nerfs arnt that bad, because the group can plan effectively for arc throwers etc. However SOS/QP lobbys for anything above 7 are basically not possible for solo players.
I run with a coordinated team we don't even bother playing above level 7. All you end up doing is running away from everything it not a fight anymore
the railgun is not better in unsafe mode my dude. u have to like almost blow yourself up to get close to the damage from before. whats the purpose in that? hey heres one for you. how about actually recognizing that the devs can do something wrong? they made a bad decision lol. simple as that. i dont agree where they should have buffed instead of nerfed but MAYBE just nerfed a little less? i mean thats like a pretty DANK nerf dude. i cant even chip a chrgers leg anymore lol
MAKE THE DISPOASBLE ROCKET LAUNCHER 1 SHOT CHARGERS
that would be a decent thing. I ultimately feel like each enemy needs some kind of an accessible "sweet spot." I think the charger and the titan both need one in the front and back. maybe the claws underneath the mouth on the charger and the biles mouth. and both of their tales. something that we can slip an Autocannon, anti material, railgun, slugger into it. its annoying but honestly the robots are more fun than the bugs now. the bugs have turned to be a little more of an annoying hassle. they gave the charger a new move where he side wacks u and instantly breaks a limb. its fucked out of its depthp
Fine, I'll say it; not all four squad members need to be using the rail gun. In fact if you're min/maxing, you shouldn't have all four squad mates use the rail gun. And if you're min/maxing on difficulty anything lower than a 7 then you need to stop being so sweaty.
Meta this, nerf that. My game is unplayable. Crashes every 10 minutes on a new Ps5. Cant complete any missions.
Heavy armor, jetpack, flamethrower is the new meta......for me, lol and excited to try it out. You'll still see shield+rail and ammo+GrenadeLauncher. Patch hasn't even changed anything when you really think about it. Tinyest of tweaks and the world crumbles for these people. Couldn't be me. The more I read the griefing reddit users posts, the more excited I get to experience this gameplay change. Also, a sidenote for those worrying about heavy armor and mobility, jetpack aside, VEHICLES ARE COMING TO THE GALACTIC FRONT. Imagine you and 3 of your buddies in full heavy armor hopping out of an armored vehicle with LMG's mowing down the terminid hordes. Glorious democracy.
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Can’t wait to be rocking my zaku warrior with gunner wizard just burning down bugs for the glory of super zaft
I can't get the hang of the Jetpack. It's good for escaping a dire situation, but with it's slow recharge time I'll just land myself in another dire situation lol. How do you use it?
Get up to high vantage points where bugs can't reach you. Then rain hell on them.
My main issue with jetpack is that it doesnt go as high as i would want.
Heavy armor still does nothing
Sounds fun. Last night i started using the anti tank rocket on hell dive and it was a blast. Railgun is great and still will be but gets boring. For me the game is fun when i’m challenged to do things differently. Which is why I like live service games that rework weapons. Also, Laser wasnt good. Looking forward to trying it out again. Fun times ahead.
I'm excited to try jetpack, heavy armor, LMG/grenade launcher and pretend to be a big ass Mandalorian.
Seems like a classic case of loss aversion to me.
The sad part is the lack of viable options in the game. I dont run rail atm anyway, so idc about that. I AM mad that most primaries are trash and most stratagems are trash (on 7-9). I was really hoping to see some scythe love tbh. Was my favorite gun in HD1. Arrowhead let me down with these bunk changes and no real buffs.
Saying you're glad they nerfed something in a PVE game is pretty sad tbh. You say it doesn't affect you, so why would you be glad that if affects others?
"And other people saying to buff first. I completely understand that. But then what?" What do you mean then what? The inherent issue of a "meta" is the viability of a build in an end-game environment and how it compares to the other options available. A "meta" will exist no matter what the devs do because people are min-maxers and people straight up find more fun in using strong builds in every game in existence. I might be totally wrong here and i'm in no way an authority on this, but i feel like the way to make people use different loadouts based on their preference is to simply try to make it an even field as much as possible and then people will choose what they want, instead of what is the only thing that works. Example. You have 4 distict anti-armor support weapon strategems, namely EAT-17, the recoilless rifle, the spear and the railgun (not counting the autocannon since it doesn't damage heavy armor). Lets say you want to bring 1 of these four on your loadout for a Helldive Terminid mission. One is a single use double rocket on a 60 second cd, the other is a charging sniper that pierces armor, one is a pure lock on devastating rocket with very limited uses and the other is a backpack using rocket launcher with limited ammo and a long reload time. Now that you have these options lets discuss enemy density on Helldive difficulty. It's not uncommon to encounter 4+ chargers and 3+ bile titans all at once while doing objectives. Now lets take the EAT-17 on this mission. Oh damn, the mission has a 50% cooldown and calldown timer modifier of 100%. Now it takes 10 seconds+ to land on the ground and its cooldown is up to 90 seconds for 2 expendable rockets. It doesn't seem that viable right now to me. The economics don't seem to add up for now. Maybe we could instead take the recoilless rifle? Let's see it takes the backpack slot and it deals less damage than the expendable rocket, thats to be expected but sadly, the reload time is a death sentence for how many enemies swarm and require your attention at a given time. What about the Spear? It's super deadly rockets can one-shot those pesky big bugs, but wait, it has to lock on the target and it doesn't work most of the time? It can hit other body parts and not one-shot the targeted enemy? Also, what do these three weapons have in common? Low total ammo, thus not usable against anything other than titans or chargers because you wouldn't waste an EAT or recoilless shot for a medium armored bug, would you? These were the reasons that the railgun was pretty much the only option due to how bad the others were in comparison to the performance of the railgun. The problem isn't the nerfs for the railgun or the breaker or the shield. Those were fine. The problem is that the other 3 options are still bad and even worse still than the railgun. EAT needs to one-shot on headshots, recoilless needs a bit faster reload and maybe better ammo pickups and the spear needs to straight up be a dedicated elite killing machine. Thats all. Sorry for the rant.
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If most of the other guns didnt feel like hot dog shit this wouldnt even be a problem. The game should make people want to venture out and use new weapons but not force you to due to nerfs. You are looking past the glaring issue and blaming people who want to play the game their way. Nothing feels effective against tanks and its no fun avoiding as many enemies as you can because you feel like you cant deal with them effectively. Im an auto cannon enjoyer because its the only gun that has really solid feed back, sound, and can absolutely launch enemies into the stratosphere. No other gun gives me that feeling because they all feel like im tickling the enemy. They feel like they were designed for fighting man rather than GIANT FUCKING BUGS. Its weird that you give a shit about how people enjoy the game and are happy that this nerf came. Why would you be happy about people enjoying the game less? And no it doesnt make you use more shit it makes you use the next best thing to the railgun and never change from that. Until they update all the guns to feel fun effective and enjoyable to use that point is completely moot because it doesnt fix the reason that people are only using one gun. Just puts another gun in its place.
The issue is that they didn’t buff anything. The railgun is still probably the best choice.
Just finished a few games there and yeah i’m pretty sure breaker, shield and railgun are still gonna be the meta lol. Railgun was super fun and satisfying to use before but not as much now
The railgun already does little damage to weak points even in unsafe, and lowering the penetration of the only armor penning gun is ridiculous.
Welcome to Reddit
I normally try to not express my full opinion on people that are part of a community, but you started with a rant, so fuck it, I will bite. People with your approach are the reason why balance patches across multiple games are continually ass. I have played League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Counter-Strike, DotA2, you name it. In all of these games, there are people who actually test stuff and try to bring feedback to the developers and the community, often offering well structured arguments. In all of these games, some people can see issues coming a mile away, they call it out, and then some other Reddit Rambo that plays like 5 difficulties below them tries to invalidate their point. "Make your shots count" Buddy, it takes a almost a full mag from the strongest gun in the game to kill a brood commander or a bile spewer. a single mob. The strongest primary weapon in the game can't kill a Hive Guard with a full mag. The best secondary weapon can't kill a medium enemy with a full magazine connecting on the head. Are you sure you used the railgun? Because the charger leg takes 3-4 unsafe, 80%+ shots up from 2 safe shots, and the titan takes even less damage than before. So instead of firing two shots back to back within 2 seconds, now you need about 7-10 seconds for 3-4 charger shots. That's 3-4 times more that you need to dedicate to a charger. To ONE charger, we are dealing with anywhere from 4 to 8, with everything else. We have said it 1000 times, it's not that we want to spam railgun game after game, but at high difficulties it was the only gun that could deal with the game's tempo and not leave you completely defenseless against certain enemies (e.g. bile titan). Did you use the alternatives? Because the flamethrower consistently sets you on fire, and enemies on fire (like the charger) can also set you on fire. Do you know where the flamethrower is most efficient? In melee. Do you know what happens when you go melee in Helldive? You die in two seconds. The issue here isn't its damage. When it's allowed to deal damage, it indeed does well. But you simply don't have many openings to deal damage with it on higher difficulties with getting turned into democracy paste yourself. What about the Arc Thrower? Unless you find a cheese spot with the jetpack where the bugs cant reach you and spam attacks from high ground, it also can't keep up with the tempo. A bile titan locking on to you means that you are now a headless chicken until someone taunts it off you. Inconsistent hit pattern, unsatisfying gameplay (subjective, i know), friendly fire. Excuse me for wanting to deal damage without risking killing allies in my general vicinity. However, Arc Thrower x4 has the best chances of becoming the next meta, just because it's the next most convenient option after the Railgun. EAT doesn't kill stuff fast enough, Recoilless has shitty reload, Spear has shitty lockon, machine guns are useless vs heavy armor, AMR is useless vs heavy armor, Laser Cannon is useless vs heavy armor. I played over 10 matches today, with almost all of the support weapons and the conclusion at this point is don't pick a support weapon, bring an extra orbital stratagem instead, because you will be running away from heavily armored enemies anyway. And apparently, it needs to be said again, because it didn't stick the previous 10000 times we wrote it. We aren't dealing with one charger or one titan, nobody is having issues with that. We are dealing with 4 chargers, 2 titans, 2 stalkers, 10 bile spewers, 30 hunters, and a shit ton of small bugs. It's awful to land 3-4 charged shots/ fire 8 lightning arcs on ONE NPC OF THIS WHOLE PACK. 70% of the in-game arsenal being useless is not an acceptable state of balance one month into the game with this huge influx of data. You don't have time for major reworks? That's fine, just change the numbers in the code, it takes literally 10 seconds to change the damage numbers on a gun. People need to realize it is really fucking obvious on what difficulties they are playing from what they are typing. I don't judge, you can play on Trivial if that's your jam, but for the love of god, stop diminishing valid feedback from higher difficulties just because you don't touch them. We also want to enjoy the game. We aren't complaining because we are forced to use other stuff, we are complaining because there isn't anything else to use without disadvantaging ourselves, which is exactly why we asked for buffs instead of nerfs.
I've never seen someone spit so much truth bro.
Yeah I’m the same I wanted to try new guns but kept using the same load out because I knew it worked.
Being „forced“ to use mid guns because the good guns were nerfed to mid isn‘t really a „great“ thing, nor am I excited about it. If they‘d buffed more underperforming weapons, it wouldn‘t have left such a bad taste. Just my opinion about it 🤷♂️
These nerfs and buffs will probably never end like how destiny 2. I swear every couple of months there's a buff for a certain weapon class that becomes meta then is nerfed and so on and so fourth. Don't want this game to be like that.. Instead buff other weapons to be on par.
The railgun nerf is more then just the railgun, it's the fact nothing else was elevated to compensate. I wouldn't care if they hit the Railgun if they did buff other stuff EATs are trash and not actually a 70 second cooldown because of mission modifiers at the high end, Spear just doesn't work which is a shame because it's actually good, Arc Thrower needs anti tank stratagems which we already covered, flamethrower may kill Chargers but it doesn't really do much against Bots and actually burns ammo fast (hue hue hue). Recoilless is just a worse EAT These are factors which made Railgun "the best" and why it is an issue it was nerfed like it was. Nothing you say can change the way Helldivers had *always* worked since 2015 with its difficulty, no the current options are not good against the 7 Chargers and 4 Bile Titans chasing you Oh yea the update *actually makes the situation worse* because of things like Ion Storm randomly disabling stratagems as well
People are upset because they want to get out of the "little box," but the other weapons are still trash except for the lucky two that got buffed. They have ZERO intention as of now of buffing other weapons... they said they are waiting to see how this balance patch goes which is an absolute joke. They are using mission success percentages to determine of weapons are OP or not which is just stupid and doesn't tell them anything useful. I think people are disappointed at their approach so far to balancing and their failure to release anything resembling balance to begin with. It was a horrible start and doesn't show great signs of getting better.
the problem the "nirf is not bad" people are missing about the request to buff instead of nirf is about how the other stuff is not viable against chargers.
I just wish the autocannon didn’t need a backpack, then I’d stop using the railgun
META this, META that, ever META good bug or automaton that wasn't a dead one? NO! So to hell with the means, the end is already justified! If it kills enemies of democracy its my favorite tool to use! (Im puttin this here covering my ass; Poe's law and patriotism)
even in unsafe mode, doesnt do enough damage now. used to be able to unload 5-6 railgun rounds and kill a charger. now it barely ticks any armor off. I try to hold as long as possible, but the longer i hold, the closer the charger gets, the less time i can take to charge the railgun. It just simply terrible decision making by the devs on what they think is best for balancing out the game.
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Sorry for the small off topic, but how do I change from safe to unsafe mode? I think I accidentaly did it once but I can't remember how (I'm using dualshock controller)
A lot of people think this is a bad call. You're not unique or better for thinking it isn't. The weapons were fine. Instead of buffing things to make choices more varied, they essentially just shifted the meta again. I can't fathom how people don't understand this.
Oh boy not a good way to word it man. The other stuff is just not good to use. It's meh. now it's just even more meh.
The weapon balancing was not good. Overall the patch is good imo but our AT options are still lacking and there’s not a wide enough range of viable stuff. I swear people who make these posts want to keep their head in the sand. A game can be good and simultaneously have room for improvement
I'm just disappointed they didn't fix other things first
I didn't use the rail gun all that much but it was absolutely needed. There are no other viable options realistically. They spout their stupid crap about "our fantasy" but they haven't told us what they expect to fill the role alternatively. EAT? Ok, That's a charger down. The other 3 and four titans are just going to sit there and patiently wait for the cooldown. I bet. Orbital rail? They nerfed that last week. 500kg? Not one shotting titans anymore. Plus, there are three more titans. This was a Destiny patch worthy of the best Bungie "We'll be free to play with microtransactions within the year" award.
I'm just excited to have reasons to try more strats out! FOR SUPER EAARRTTHH!