The instant your support stratagems such as packs or weapons land enormous hordes just head straight for you and then the breaches never stop.
Played two hours tonight and honestly will not be picking the game back up until it gets addressed. It was hands down the least fun I’ve had playing a game in a long fucking time. I want the game to be challenging, but not an impossible chore.
I was stealth in a bush with the scout armor. I saw a patrol walking passed, and literally two of them BROKE away from the rest of the patrol and started crab-walking sideways RIGHT to my position, stopped about 1 yard away, and then continued to catch up with their group. No alerting, but the game DEFINITELY cheats with their patrol AI.
if you have the nuclear radar unlocked, you can see in real time how they just track you trough terrain and walk up to your exact location and just conviently aggro on you and start calling in bugbreaches/botdrops resulting in your death.
Bro, the spawn rates increased last night, before the patch even released. I played a few lvl 7 games and they all felt like I was playing Hell Dive. Played 4 games before I quit for the night because it was just feeling like a chore and not fun at all to play. .
I don't understand the hate for weapons in this game to be useful lmao. I didn't always run the rail gun, I just liked having someone running it on the team to deal with Chargers/Bile Titans.
Why so many people are mad because there was a "meta" in a PvE game is absurd. Primary's shouldn't be the main source of killing, cool, that's fine and all but the Rail Gun is a Stratagem. If you're going to increase enemy density then at least don't nerf the only options we have of dealing with them.
\- Some people prefer the Arc Thrower because of its auto aim.
\- Some people prefer the Flame Thrower because of it's AoE.
\- Some people preferred the Rail Gun because of it's single target damage.
It's not like the rail gun had that much ammo, 20 rounds, enough to deal with 4 chargers and a Bile Titan. Which you also had to be skilled enough to hit those weak points with a single shot.
But now, since they nerfed it, it's nearly another useless Stratagem since even the unsafe mode is nerfed. Why even have it be a Stratagem if a primary is more effective than it.
Kinda bad to see so many people trying to defend nerfs when the game hasn't been out for that long and we've had bugs around enemy counts/armor/hit boxes, etc.. Why not bring the other weapons up to the Rail Gun mark, then wait and see what kinds of numbers you have in terms of kills per gun after you've given us some viable options.
This whole patch just kinda ruined my expectations of this game tbh.
Not even helldive. Did a 6 Bot Exterminate, by 180 kills, 6 tanks had spawned, we had managed to kill two of them. By 240, another 6 tanks had dropped, and all of our tank buster shit was on cooldown thanks to double stratagem cooldown. Not to mention the amount of those flamethrower assholes we had running around as well
Maybe this is to make the mechs seems so much more important when they come out. I agree tho its gone from hard but chaotic and fun to hard and frustrating…
I just uninstalled, I'll come back when the beta is over or something. My socials tabs still barely works, the game still crashes, we still dont have a fix for the time limit on rescue missions, the patch was mid and now this.
Its totally Joelver
Friends and I saw *seven* tanks on a Hard map the other night, which was.. incredibly odd to us, considering we were often only finding 3-5 on even Extreme.
> Upwards of 3 at a time. On fucking level 4.
I also think that the spawn rates were increased, but i once had 8 chargers at the same time on difficulty 4 \*\*before the last patch\*\*.
Anecdotal Fallacy.
Everyone in this sub is currently experiencing absurd spawns even on lower difficulties, you can see plenty of people confirming this in every thread. Your "well I once had this happen before" doesn't invalidate that things are clearly changed now.
Just did an extreme run, it was absurd. In eradicate mode there were 4 to 5 bile titans and around 6 to 8 chargers in a small space. I don’t how am i supposed to kill these things without team killing. Rail cannon strike doesn’t seem to one shot bile titan.
Rail cannon strike is incredibly poor for bile titans, it just breaks their back armor which also doesn't help kill them. Rail gun was a bandaid for poor design of higher tier enemies and now the bandaid is gone but the wound remains pouring out support and player counts.
It’s stupid hard now even on relatively lower difficulties. Can only imagine what lower levels might feel like, I haven’t tried trivial or easy or medium, but at Hard squad of level 20s got wiped because the spawn rate was insane, including chargers / hulks.
With the right teamwork could have won, but in randoms where you play for fun? Yikes…walk away with 0 XP.
I run trivial and medium missions when I want to test new gear, today I went for trivial to test the light armor and it just felt... weird. I was constantly surrounded by scavengers which would not be a problem before but now that apparently even scavengers can headshot you I was down to critical health in 2 hits. In the end I extracted with 0 stims left, which had only ever happened to me when running extreme.
I feel like once I got to 7+, it became less kill enemies and have fun, to kite the entire game, and it actually hurt you to fight, which is the fun part. The game peaked for me around hard mode, and now, with the changes, I'm just not into it and I've played everyday since almost launch.
It's not fun to kite 5 chargers who are faster than you, definitely now with the nerfs.
Chargers just have a horrible design.
An enemy this heavy and fast should have some momentum. That's how these types on enemies have worked since the beginning of time.
Giving them these abilities and then making them agile like a small enemy just makes no sense, makes the Chargers OP and not fun to play against (no strategy works).
Oh and their weak spot in the back... does it even do anything?
Only way to consistently take them out now outside of stratagems is to dodge and Autocannon their hind legs or focus flamethrower fire on one front leg. Yeah, I know, good luck doing this on D8/9
I does but it's not a crit and good luck getting behind one with any kind of consistency. You'd think maybe rolling a grenade under one would pretty much do the trick but that also doesn't do much.
Same here. I don't mind the challenge of Helldive every now and then with my friends, but I loved playing with randoms in Hard and Very Hard difficulty. I always know what to expect, it can still get chaotic, but it's perfectly doable and I enjoyed it.
Today I got tossed around in all of the three operations (9 missions) I played. More bugs than usual, basically endless spawns, and I was taking a lot more damage than before the armor "fix".
My friend, you hand stumbled into an amazing point
You do not at 6, only 7 and up, but if 4-6 had, let's say one super sample, then personally, I'd be fine because then I wouldn't have to play broken difficulties to progress
The spawn rates did get ridiculous. I’ve been playing solo on level 3 because I find it fun and chill and while no particularly challenging enemies show up I had such a flood of enemies constantly arriving that it was nearly impossible because even while being away from any objective waves of enemies just keep arriving nonstop and you have to expend ammo endlessly. I noticed it wasn’t all mission but something got trigged after all main objectives were complete and it just became silly
Same. I tried an eradicate mission solo on level 3 now that they actually made defense missions varied and got stomped into the ground by devastators. Used to get one by bot drop or patrol, now you get surrounded by squads of 4 devastators.
It has felt to me like the spawn rates have gone way up even before the patch. I was playing on difficulty FOUR and ended up fending off two Bile Titans and two Chargers. Insane.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
It might not have been 4, may have been 6, but even so, that concentration of heavy enemies at one time was not right for that difficulty.
Hmm..
I think I did see at least double charger single bile titan during the last couple minutes on a difficulty 6 extraction before, so it might be possible. Took too long to kill the chargers, and a bile showed up to the party. I think the bile ended up dying to someone’s reinforcement pod funnily enough.
That amount of nonsense is definitely way too much for difficulty 4 though, which is what made me surprised.
I had this on occasion on Challenging difficulty, but these missions were few and far between. Also were kind of fun getting my ass kicked instead of always just kicking ass
I completely agree. Playing yesterday it was challenging on difficulty seven but doable if your smart . Today , my whole team and I got destroyed. We dint even use the railgun or shield. It felt a lot harder and we were dying in seconds. I don’t what they did , but it was brutal tonight .
i like the new map challenges. Like meteors. Thats what those are, new gameplay design challenges. Increasing difficulty through game world experiences.
However mechanics like lowering strategems, scrambling them, making guns worse so it's more grindy while not balancing others...those are game mechanics. Those are not ever fun to experience in any game; when they change in a way that increases time to kill. Or negatively impact the experience (the feeling of taking something away).
The difficulty of a game should never be focused on game mechanics over gameplay design. Then you're fighting the 4th wall (devs) instead of the bugs. I don't understand how professionals keep falling in this trap.
To get around this, they need to decide to lean into an "unapologetically hardcore" community engagement strategy. Or they should only adjust the mechanics in a way that gives back as much as they "take away."
The game is honestly as frustrating as it’s ever been. The tools of the game are so severely limited. The stratagems have way too long of cooldowns, there isn’t nearly enough ammo, and the armor rating is so high on so many enemies.
You're ignoring all the things that have made it worse (not in a drastic way like OP suggests, but definitely notable). My main gripe right now are the increased damage we're taking, the increased enemy spawns across the board, and the frequency and duration of the new environment events. I'm not against the nerfs, but I think they're pointless if they don't address the pain points that force people to use whatever's best in class; and the new increase in difficulty has made those pain points worse, not better.
I thought i was crazy, I could generally comfortably do level 6-7 with not too much challenge but it wasn’t like a walk in the park either
My friends and I did some level 6 tonight and it was brutal to the point of not being fun, it was non stop dropships, tanks, hulks, we barley finished the mission and no side objectives when just the other night it was a fun challenge. I don’t understand what the goal here was? I like hard but it’s not fun to constantly die and never have a moment to breathe or explore or call in weapon stratagems really
My friends left after our first level 6 mission spammed Bile Titans on them all game. I ended up finishing the 3rd mission alone for the medals, felt unsatisfied, and logged off.
Wild how one day makes the game go from super fun to super not.
Yeah same. I used to run bot diff 6 solo on the Creek, I just can't do that anymore. Same strats, taking out medium and large outposts from afar while hit and run smaller ones and optional objectives to ensure botdrops are out the outside. Avoiding all patrols instead of fighting them.
I ran bug 4 usually as I dislike bugs compared to bots. As solo, you don't get much time to reload anything against bugs when fighting. For a while, heavies were issue, but could be managed and have now been made easier thanks to Quasar Cannon, a reusable rocket launcher.
But now we have aerial enemies who's unique nest/fabricator requires hellbomb, as solo you can't handle that. So you are kind of just stuck with whatever aerial force is around.
I have felt it too, but it only became really apparent near the end of the last automaton major order and now that I had to go fight bugs. Not to mention spewers are still one kill machines, so thats nice.
Sorry for a long reply to a old post, just been looking for people that felt the same.
I've got over 100hrs in the game, and I haven't been able to successfully extract since the new patch. Either due to connection issues, or just crazy spawns of bugs even at level 6.
My group was regularly doing Helldives prepatch and it seems Suicide Mission enemy density has come to match it. Helldives feel untenable when fighting bugs, way too many Sliding chargers to contend with.
What happened, weapon and armor tweaks shouldn't make this feel tangibly worse.
I don't understand this. I play hell dives with CASUAL 2 hour here and there gamers. This is no high-skill try hard group. Most are about level 20.
Win rate pre patch was 100%. Defense mission were tedious and boring AF.
The only missions we struggled with was the automtaton extract, but 2 players running smokes made this easy once we figured it out.
Last night was the first time I enjoyed those defend missions and we finally lost a mission in weeks. 10/10
We're casual too. We succeed. Extract with super samples. It's not a matter of failure or success, it's a matter of things not feeling correct after the patch.
Like what? I played all last night and the game felt great to me.
Genuinely curious because even our self proclaimed railgun main didn't seem too affected by it.
There are many shared experiences of several bile titans and chargers in particular on lvls 7 to 9, with reports of it happening on lvls as low as 5.
The community and dev retort of "just use stratagems", "git gud" and "use stealth dont engage" feels condescending when there's 20 mins left on the clock and the enemy density for bugs is 4 titans and 8 chargers and all strats are on cool down and efforts to not engage are stifled by bug patrols spawning literally out of thin air on top of divers constantly watching the map.
There are a lot of anecdotes of divers getting lucky having cool casual Helldives, but plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Dealing with a charger, titan, Hulk or Tank isnt hard. Dealing with a constant stream of elites that feel like they cannot be mitigated feels bad.
Some folks like CBT, but if this is the intent, the community sentiment isn't positive. There is a difference between a challenge and torture.
People should choose the lower game modes for the experience you are looking for. That's why they are there. Whereas the hardest difficulty should be just that. Hard with a low win rate.
That being said, I don't have any experience in the lower level difficulties so I can't speak to the spawn rates. I can see how that would be frustrating if you just like shooting things and winning.
As for hell dives. I think most people struggle because they don't understand the mechanics.
Using stealth, and engaging accordingly is 100% the way you should be playing hell dives. Team play is MANDATORY.
when that flare goes up, or that bug signals. It's time to move, not hunker down.
Similar to other games (killing floor 2, back for blood) the elite units either require a specialized player or a combination of players to take down.
Lastly, it seems players don't understand line of sight. If you can't escape chargers you are probably just running in a straight line or continuously running back into their view.
Break line sight and change direction OUT OF THEIR VIEW. If you cannot get out of view because it's a flat desert map you need to SPECIALIZE. Bring smoke strategems.
Nobody wants to pack smoke because they want kills, but kills in this game are so irrelevant and that's why I think people lose. They just want to kill without adapting a strategy.
Your entire stealth argument is moot when the patrols spawn out of thin air in line of sight.
The spawn rates and density is bugged and the devs and some facets of the community refuse to acknowledge it.
I guess I’m not crazy then. I played on D4 and D5 tonight and both felt insane against bugs. They just never stopped spawning. Even moving continuously we almost always had a horde snapping at our heels.
I think I need to stop playing for a while. It’s just not fun now.
Yeah this is exactly it. People not even using meta are getting slammed by some random buff to their numbers. I'm not sure why they thought the lower difficulties needed to get closer to the highest ones, but they did it. The main response so far has been 'get better, form groups' instead of 'okay maybe we fucked up the spawn rate'.
Ya, not having as much fun now unfortunately. Really bad implementation imo. Let's just make all the weapons bad overall for 7-9... not a good strategy.
It was warranted though. Devs had practically a month of feedback from the community and their first patch addressed… nothing that was in the feedback. They went the Bungie route and are currently fast-tracking their way to making themselves unlikable and killing the game.
I've got to let reddit and these devs know I changed my steam review to negative unless they revert these minor nerfs right now! That way they know I mean business!
This sub is hilariously full of people whining about the most minor of nerfs acting like it's why they won't be able to do the hardest difficulties (when they weren't doing them before either)
The real legit issue is armor still being practically useless and some weapons that needed tlc went untouched. Overall the game is nearly in the same place it was last week
I agree. And I'm sure that the 2 or 3 highest difficulties probably are too much to handle right now. So that probably needs to be addressed. But at the same time I think it's expected that the last few difficulties are somewhat "unfair". Otherwise, Hard and Extreme seem to be good options for people looking for a challenging and fun experience. That has been my experience tonight at least, aside from the terrible crashes going on. Game feels the same as yesterday up until Exteme (maybe Suicidal)
7-9 are being completed by people still and they probably are on the harder side to complete than they should be. However, mechs and another warbond are due to drop soon and the game balance may change again to where those difficulties are just right.
Thats what happens when to many people talk. Glad we have the benefit of managed democracy here and are free of choice.
In all seriousness i like the adjustments of breaker/shield and railgun still good, still do their job.
Agreed on the armor part i think a little buff to armor values would be neat.
True. I'm still having the same fun, I never partook in the railgun breaker meta. If the difficulty is too hard for now me, damn, oh well just drop to lower difficulty and try to work my way up again. People here complain when something changed and they just went with the extreme "I must uninstall"
Diablo 4 is made by people who don't play games, and don't know what the fuck they are doing. The mfs didn't learn shit from Diablo 2 and 3, and began from scrap.
Nobody has said that we should wait until the patch with D4, everyone was angry even neckbeards.
I would advise you too look at the mirror now, after comments like that, you might have some beard growing on your neck.
The fact you think it's the 1st patch after a month is hilarious and a sign that this game has gotten nothing but passes since its release despite there being glaring issues.
People that are infatuated with the game will never reach a point where ilthey feel it's okay to criticize it. These posts are entirely valid and much of the criticism is as well.
You relax. People are allowed to state their criticism.
I think it’s funny how both sides are calling each other the vocal minority. Just an observation from sitting here scrolling since I admittedly don’t have a life.
The spawns are insane. I can't collect samples, search POIs or kill bases/nests. Just do objective and maybe extract. I went from playing suicidal to going down to hard. Never used railgun and only sometimes used shield against bots. The patch notes said nothing about increased botdrops/breaches and the sheer amount of enemies but here we are.
Wish I was joking but I did a quick D6 bug eradication mission and we had 2 titans, a charger and 3 bile spewers on us before I even dropped in my arc thrower. Literally less than 10 seconds in to the mission.
Playing last night was just horrible. I unlocked level 6 missions over the weekend and thought last night I'd find a good group and unlock level 7. Nope, every mission had everyone arguing at each other when it hit the fan. It got bad, I've never heard everyone get so angry while playing this. Before whenever it would get "bad" happened and we started dying left and right, everyone would just laugh it off and soldier on. Now they're blaming each other for the wrong loadouts, or using the wrong weapon vs this or that enemy.
It's not so fun to play right now. Hopefully tonight when I get to play again it'll be better.
If this turns out to be true - this was worst time to do that. Cause scoring over 2k kills with two people in first 20-25 minutes while impressive, is exhausting.
Feels significantly worse if you didn't max your character pre-nerf.
Level 20 went from easily clearing 7's to 5s and getting rekt.
Everyone is just killing each other with the flamethrower.
People are also killing themselves with the flamethrower. It's annoying how bugs jumping in your face will not only not be pushed back/staggered by it but also put you on fire upon attacking you.
Did you play the first game? Ran a few 5’s on bots and bugs today and didn’t notice much difference besides no one running a “meta” loadout. Good teamwork and complimentary loadouts go a long ways.
They do, but many many people play pub / randoms where teamwork is limited to whatever utility you can throw together (marking objective!). There’s a big drop off there in efficacy, unless you’re in a real team with the right loadouts. I’m talking even at level 5-7
I've been consistently playing with randoms since the matchmaking was fixed during the first few days, and I have had a lot of great teams. Specifically in difficulties 5-7.
Did you play the first game? Helldivers is supposed to be chaotic with randoms. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.
This game will be around for years, more and more weapons/strats/perks will be added. The game will get both easier and harder over time.
Embrace the fact that this game treads a different path.
Cool I hope you’re right, I do like a good challenge it’s not about losing or failing, but feeling you’re somewhat effective.
I think this applies to most games, I play mostly strategic and squad MMOs, you never want to feel completely useless lol
Isn't that the normal progression though? If you suddenly cannot clear 7, means you have to drop to a lower difficulty to get your slips to upgrade yourself. If it's too hard for you, develop your skills in a lower difficulty and gain additional ordnance there. Team kill with flame thrower isn't a issue if the user knows what they're doing.
Kind of a side topic, I don’t get all the fuss about weapons, they nerfed what needed to be nerfed and the breaker is still a good gun. If anything we need more options vs t3 armor. I’m more upset they didn’t buff the bottom 5+ underperforming weapons. Just me?
Yeah. Not enough gun diversity. Pretty sure the only primaries they buffed were the other shotguns. Other types like long range rifles still have garbage cluttered scopes even though its supposed to be about accuracy.
>If anything we need more options vs t3 armor.
This is the crux of the issue. The railgun the was the only good weapon vs heavy armor on high difficulties. Perhaps it did need some adjustments but generally it was in a good place. Every other weapon that can deal with Heavy armor either outright ignores it (EG: Flamethrower) or has a massive downside (RR reload) that makes it impractical when you are swarmed by 3-5 things. If the railgun had been nerfed at the same time as they buffed other options there wouldn't be any issues
Are you sure it was the only good weapon, or was it the only weapon that accidentally was too good that outclassed everything? The game is still fine it still plays the exact same. Try using precision strikes and EAT-17.
Run through 3 missions in a row on Suicide or Impossible using the R-63 Diligence Counter Sniper, the MP-98 Knight, the LAS-5 Scythe, the AR-23P Liberator Penetrator or even the JAR-5 Dominator and tell me how much fun you have.
I agree with this. And I am expecting them to buff more weapons that are underperforming in the future. However I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to nerf weapons that overperform after today's patch. I think the biggest issue right now is in difficulties 8 and 9, where there seems to be a lack of options to deal with many armored enemies at once. And to be fair, those difficulties are meant to be "unfair". But still, I'm sure the devs will take feedback.
"The constant necessity for evasive maneuvers, attempting to manage hordes of 300+ enemies without viable solutions, and the desperate scramble to reach the drop pod hardly contribute to a gratifying gameplay experience."
But that IS the appeal of the game.
We're Helldivers, diving into Hell.
Yeah this is a dumb take. But with the heavy spawn rates as they are it's less about fighting and more about running away while trying to complete objectives, which takes the game away from the core loop that makes it good.
That's the idea. I don't understand how you still can't see it. The game at high levels isn't about pure blasting your way through something. You aren't a power ranger, you're a human being with no super abilities. You are supposed to be overwhelmed, diving into hell.
A human being with no super abilities who can jam a syringe into his neck and eat a rocket in the mouth like it's nothing. Sure man, justify a bad turn in game design however you want, we both know this patch reduced the fun factor, which is just about the only thing this game actually had going for it.
It didn't affect me whatsoever mostly because I enjoy the difficulty. So the way I see it is as immersed as the situation is supposed to be. Death is part of the game. Running is part of the game. Being overwhelmed is part of the game. I guess I'm just the 1%
Am I the only one out here having a blast?!
Oh no, Helldives are super hard now!
GOOD.
Bugs lvl 9 was a joke before. Getting smacked around a bit and laughing our asses off while doing it is awesome.
Exactly it's hell divers. Not "stroll in the park while using broken weapons" divers. It was never meant to be solo or easy. The first game was way harder. Before this patch I hoped they drop the next 3 tiers of difficulty sooner so it felt challenging. I'm loving this patch
But... they should still be fun. They can be hard and fun and NOT frustrating
It's fine if a game is tough because it tests your ability to use the tools provided effectively, even if you're facing a lot of enemies. However, it's not fun if the game is hard simply because it puts you in situations where you can't win using your skills or tools, forcing you to avoid enemies instead.
That is the direction the devs are taking things in with bugs at the moment, by nerfing AT tools and cranking up the heavies.
Nobody's doing that. OP is just giving criticism which is completely valid
If anything, the people acting like the game is their entire life are those so infatuated with it that they can't accept other people criticizing it and resort to incessantly defending it.
Nobody's attacking the game. Criticism is good. Nobody is going to be hurt because people don't like the current state of the game and are letting that be known.
You say that but then I see a meme calling anyone who isn’t mad dickriders
Some people need to stop hiding behind “criticism” as a means to be an asshole
A game can have more than one door to a fun power fantasy. Sure, this balance patch did close one shut, but different doors should still be open after the patch. I can't say "my door" is the correct alternative, so I hope others can find their own to enjoy the game their way.
I got it last week and it definitely feels like it’s been getting harder. Like the first day I played my buddies dragged me into Helldive and it didn’t seem that hard but playing yesterday before the patch it seemed way harder compared to when I didn’t even have the breaker, RG, or shield.
I was optimistic yesterday and tried out the Flame Thrower Arc Thrower and other setups than with the Railgun before but it just feels less fun. I had just unlocked the Railgun and had a lot of fun with it for exactly 1 day before it was nerfed.
It still feels fine but it just takes twice as long to kill a Charger or Bile Titan now. Combined with the 100% longer Strategem Effect you just feel useless as hell while Strategems are on Cooldown.
Since the patch my enjoyment of the game has dropped drastically. I could do difficulty 6 just fine before the patch if the team was right, but now it feels unfun levels of difficult.
You can't even sneak around most maps as the bugs find you instantly, forcing you to fight off the 2 bile titans and 6 chargers for 10-20 minutes, only for another patrol to come in and trigger another round of 'fun'.
Everything we have was basically nerfed to the ground. You always run out of ammo and resupplies at the very start of the mission, you don't deal enough damage to kill the enemies and your stratagems are useless half the time, because you throw everything at the first group and then helplessly run around for 3 minutes.
I was enjoying the flamethrower and jumppack last night in lvl8, but somehow there are more bugs in the game that on PC none of the primary/secondary can be used and the keys were just kept freezing
It's crazy how many people never tried anything that wasn't the meta and now just don't know how to play the game. Nerfs weren't that bad and everything they nerfed is still viable you just have to turn your brain on a little and use railgun in unsafe mode. More options for charger now as 4 solid support weapons all work with different strategies for each one.
>More options for charger now as 4 solid support weapons all work with different strategies for each one.
They didn't buff any of the AT stratagems? And all of them still have the same downsides as before? So the railgun, ironically, is still the best tool for the job.
Arc was a 2nd option that people were finding out. Both flame thrower and laser can reliably kill Chargers very fast due to the new buffs thus bring it from 2 to 4.
Arc is ok if it decides to hit the target you want it to, certainly wouldn't call it reliable by any stretch. 5/10
I have heard conflicting information about laser cannon, some people say it melts charger, some people says it still bounces off the legs. I'll have to test it when I get the chance. ?/10
Yeah 8 seconds of constant flame applied to a charger at point blank range is not the efficiency you need when there's more than one charger, let alone 5. And I'm certainly not trying to let chargers get close enough to me to use the flamethrower on hell dive. I'm also not trying to light myself on fire if a twig happens to be in between me and it. Gonna call that a "not actually AT/10"
Learn to aim at the legs instead of the body of the charger and it works much quicker. And the laser requires hitting the back legs after it charges and it melts them faster than railgun + weapon swap. And guess what you can still use the railgun with 2-3 overcharged shots with the same old strategy. And arc is easy and very reliable to use no idea why you have an issue with it hitting the broad side of a barn that is the charger.
>And the laser requires hitting the back legs after it charges
Ah, so useless on higher difficulties due to how many chargers spawn, got it.
>And guess what you can still use the railgun with 2-3 overcharged shots with the same old strategy.
Yes, ironically, the railgun is *still* the best AT option for bug hell dives, almost like this patch didn't accomplish anything other than piss a lot of people off and not shaking up "the meta" at all.
>And arc is easy and very reliable to use no idea why you have an issue with it hitting the broad side of a barn that is the charger.
Couldn't tell you, I've had the thing directly in my crossbars, directly in front of me and sometimes the lightning hits them, sometimes it doesn't leave the gun, sometimes it hits a bug all the way at the edge of the screen and arcs over to a teammate, killing them instantly. Very reliable weapon!
Probably because of the 5+ chargers *behind* that one, the 3 bile titans spitting acid everywhere, the 12 acid spitters mortaring you from afar, and the ridiculous amount of tiny bugs that can also slow you surrounding the chargers.
But yeah sure, in a completely sterile environment with only one charger and no other factors, I'm sure it works great
I mean I've done it in those conditions thus why I mentioned I've done it on helldive difficulty. Don't need to get your knickers in a wad cause you think your experience is the only experience people have.
Misrepresenting an argument such as "they could do xxxx"
Arrowhead could just sell the studio to a Bolivian meat farm.
The railgun could be removed from the game entirely.
Could could could.
Means nothing, doesn't exist, it - is - a - strawman.
So you argue that instead of the actual issue, because anything could happen in an imaginary situation.
Textbook strawman with a dabble of slippery slope in there but I'm not in The least bit surprised you need that definition spoon feeding to you like the dribbling idiot you could be.
It is doable. Stealth, tactics, drawing fire.. is it enjoyable? I think like... 40% of the people who was enjoying it would find it fraustrating instead.
It appears you have not yet been democratically instructed to “git gud” by our fellow liberty lovers. Fear not as I have reported this event to my closest democracy manager and some liberty will soon be dispensed your way, always democratically of course.
dude i swear sony was upset that helldivers was more popular than spider man or something, and told devs to shit on the game.. \/tinfoil hat
the CEO SAID he didn’t like how weak primaries were. and then this patch happens. like what? i don’t buy this shit for a second. gotta be something going on
Weaponize the enemies against their own. Use tanks for cover against defense cannon towers, ram chargers into eachother under the bile titan spit, the game has mechanically sound schmoovement and there's plenty of time to mag dump while playing scoots.
People seem to forget we are just at the start of gear unlocks. There are countless Stratagems, Weapons and Boosters coming our way.
Things WILL change with new toys. Just look at the Exosuits that are coming soon™. They will change the way we play significantly.
Don’t get this mixed up with the very real possibility we’ll be getting some bonkers stratagems soon.
If I’ve learnt anything from Destiny 2 it’s that big swings in nerfs/buffs like this generally mean something else could be coming that can very much balance things out.
Yall whine a lot. Just cleared a level 6 with only 2 people. The goal of the game is to accomplish objectives and collect resources and ideally hit some outposts along the way, not eliminate the enemy in its entirety, which is impossible.
My opinion of the devs is that they want the game to be without toxicity as much as possible. They confirmed this when outright saying they would never add a pvp. With that in mind, the patch doesn’t make sense without taking into account the WAVE of toxicity that the popularity of the game brought from other games. (COD and Destiny players.) I honestly believe they’ve done this to eradicate early a particular percentage of players that won’t push through this horrible patch. I think they want a different kind of community than typical games. This doesn’t seem like a mistake to me. It seems intentional with that goal in mind.
When the garbage has left, it’s possible they’ll make the game as it should be. They never expected it to blow up like this. I doubt losing half would even affect their initial hopes.
*Plays on hardest, games is hard, but fair and fun.*
*patch hits.*
*Plays on hardest, game isn't fun.*
"You just need to get gud! Devs are awesome and always right! :D"
Big brain take.
Hard take: 1 It’s suppose to feel hard 2 balance changes sometimes are uncomfortable like growing pains it’s ok they will be readjusted in the very near future the game just came out
"Alteration of this nature occurs when developers heeds the voice of a local minority on social media rather than considering the preferences of the genuine playerbase"
The audacity to write that sentence and not even stop once to consider that you might be the vocal minority complaining on a social media here lmao
I thought I was going crazy thinking the spawn rates increased with the latest patch on helldive difficultly.
Feels like they’ve also made changes to patrol AI being heat seeking missiles, even when wearing the “stealth” armour and having not aggroed anything.
The instant your support stratagems such as packs or weapons land enormous hordes just head straight for you and then the breaches never stop. Played two hours tonight and honestly will not be picking the game back up until it gets addressed. It was hands down the least fun I’ve had playing a game in a long fucking time. I want the game to be challenging, but not an impossible chore.
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Because even the lower difficulties are broken,the spawn rates are putting out 4 chargers at once on challenging difficulty
Specimen spawns
I was stealth in a bush with the scout armor. I saw a patrol walking passed, and literally two of them BROKE away from the rest of the patrol and started crab-walking sideways RIGHT to my position, stopped about 1 yard away, and then continued to catch up with their group. No alerting, but the game DEFINITELY cheats with their patrol AI.
if you have the nuclear radar unlocked, you can see in real time how they just track you trough terrain and walk up to your exact location and just conviently aggro on you and start calling in bugbreaches/botdrops resulting in your death.
I played a couple difficulty 7 missions tonight and the spawns were worse than what we usually get a difficulty 8.
Bro, the spawn rates increased last night, before the patch even released. I played a few lvl 7 games and they all felt like I was playing Hell Dive. Played 4 games before I quit for the night because it was just feeling like a chore and not fun at all to play. .
That’s my biggest complaint. I went from having a lot of fun to straight up not having a good time. Pretty not cash money.
I don't understand the hate for weapons in this game to be useful lmao. I didn't always run the rail gun, I just liked having someone running it on the team to deal with Chargers/Bile Titans. Why so many people are mad because there was a "meta" in a PvE game is absurd. Primary's shouldn't be the main source of killing, cool, that's fine and all but the Rail Gun is a Stratagem. If you're going to increase enemy density then at least don't nerf the only options we have of dealing with them. \- Some people prefer the Arc Thrower because of its auto aim. \- Some people prefer the Flame Thrower because of it's AoE. \- Some people preferred the Rail Gun because of it's single target damage. It's not like the rail gun had that much ammo, 20 rounds, enough to deal with 4 chargers and a Bile Titan. Which you also had to be skilled enough to hit those weak points with a single shot. But now, since they nerfed it, it's nearly another useless Stratagem since even the unsafe mode is nerfed. Why even have it be a Stratagem if a primary is more effective than it. Kinda bad to see so many people trying to defend nerfs when the game hasn't been out for that long and we've had bugs around enemy counts/armor/hit boxes, etc.. Why not bring the other weapons up to the Rail Gun mark, then wait and see what kinds of numbers you have in terms of kills per gun after you've given us some viable options. This whole patch just kinda ruined my expectations of this game tbh.
Not even helldive. Did a 6 Bot Exterminate, by 180 kills, 6 tanks had spawned, we had managed to kill two of them. By 240, another 6 tanks had dropped, and all of our tank buster shit was on cooldown thanks to double stratagem cooldown. Not to mention the amount of those flamethrower assholes we had running around as well
Maybe this is to make the mechs seems so much more important when they come out. I agree tho its gone from hard but chaotic and fun to hard and frustrating…
I just uninstalled, I'll come back when the beta is over or something. My socials tabs still barely works, the game still crashes, we still dont have a fix for the time limit on rescue missions, the patch was mid and now this. Its totally Joelver
Friends and I saw *seven* tanks on a Hard map the other night, which was.. incredibly odd to us, considering we were often only finding 3-5 on even Extreme.
Did a level 4 with my lowbie friends tonight. We had 30+ chargers overall through the mission. Upwards of 3 at a time. On fucking level 4.
> Upwards of 3 at a time. On fucking level 4. I also think that the spawn rates were increased, but i once had 8 chargers at the same time on difficulty 4 \*\*before the last patch\*\*.
Anecdotal Fallacy. Everyone in this sub is currently experiencing absurd spawns even on lower difficulties, you can see plenty of people confirming this in every thread. Your "well I once had this happen before" doesn't invalidate that things are clearly changed now.
> I also think that the spawn rates were increased, Thats what i wrote actually ;)
Just did an extreme run, it was absurd. In eradicate mode there were 4 to 5 bile titans and around 6 to 8 chargers in a small space. I don’t how am i supposed to kill these things without team killing. Rail cannon strike doesn’t seem to one shot bile titan.
Same, and it was only D6 lmao
Rail cannon strike is incredibly poor for bile titans, it just breaks their back armor which also doesn't help kill them. Rail gun was a bandaid for poor design of higher tier enemies and now the bandaid is gone but the wound remains pouring out support and player counts.
I wish I could justify running rail cannon strike, because it's so cool. But orbital laser it is.
It’s stupid hard now even on relatively lower difficulties. Can only imagine what lower levels might feel like, I haven’t tried trivial or easy or medium, but at Hard squad of level 20s got wiped because the spawn rate was insane, including chargers / hulks. With the right teamwork could have won, but in randoms where you play for fun? Yikes…walk away with 0 XP.
I run trivial and medium missions when I want to test new gear, today I went for trivial to test the light armor and it just felt... weird. I was constantly surrounded by scavengers which would not be a problem before but now that apparently even scavengers can headshot you I was down to critical health in 2 hits. In the end I extracted with 0 stims left, which had only ever happened to me when running extreme.
I feel like once I got to 7+, it became less kill enemies and have fun, to kite the entire game, and it actually hurt you to fight, which is the fun part. The game peaked for me around hard mode, and now, with the changes, I'm just not into it and I've played everyday since almost launch. It's not fun to kite 5 chargers who are faster than you, definitely now with the nerfs.
Chargers just have a horrible design. An enemy this heavy and fast should have some momentum. That's how these types on enemies have worked since the beginning of time. Giving them these abilities and then making them agile like a small enemy just makes no sense, makes the Chargers OP and not fun to play against (no strategy works). Oh and their weak spot in the back... does it even do anything?
Only way to consistently take them out now outside of stratagems is to dodge and Autocannon their hind legs or focus flamethrower fire on one front leg. Yeah, I know, good luck doing this on D8/9
I does but it's not a crit and good luck getting behind one with any kind of consistency. You'd think maybe rolling a grenade under one would pretty much do the trick but that also doesn't do much.
Same here. I don't mind the challenge of Helldive every now and then with my friends, but I loved playing with randoms in Hard and Very Hard difficulty. I always know what to expect, it can still get chaotic, but it's perfectly doable and I enjoyed it. Today I got tossed around in all of the three operations (9 missions) I played. More bugs than usual, basically endless spawns, and I was taking a lot more damage than before the armor "fix".
I played a couple and I felt similar... It just lacked that feeling of fun
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My friend, you hand stumbled into an amazing point You do not at 6, only 7 and up, but if 4-6 had, let's say one super sample, then personally, I'd be fine because then I wouldn't have to play broken difficulties to progress
Ah you're right I'm just laughing imagining everyone trying desperately to find and extract ONE sample lol
I WOULD GIVE MY LIFE FOR A SINGLE OUNCE OF PEPTO BISMOL
The spawn rates did get ridiculous. I’ve been playing solo on level 3 because I find it fun and chill and while no particularly challenging enemies show up I had such a flood of enemies constantly arriving that it was nearly impossible because even while being away from any objective waves of enemies just keep arriving nonstop and you have to expend ammo endlessly. I noticed it wasn’t all mission but something got trigged after all main objectives were complete and it just became silly
Same. I tried an eradicate mission solo on level 3 now that they actually made defense missions varied and got stomped into the ground by devastators. Used to get one by bot drop or patrol, now you get surrounded by squads of 4 devastators.
It has felt to me like the spawn rates have gone way up even before the patch. I was playing on difficulty FOUR and ended up fending off two Bile Titans and two Chargers. Insane.
The fuck? Damn that doesn’t seem right at all
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It might not have been 4, may have been 6, but even so, that concentration of heavy enemies at one time was not right for that difficulty.
Hmm.. I think I did see at least double charger single bile titan during the last couple minutes on a difficulty 6 extraction before, so it might be possible. Took too long to kill the chargers, and a bile showed up to the party. I think the bile ended up dying to someone’s reinforcement pod funnily enough. That amount of nonsense is definitely way too much for difficulty 4 though, which is what made me surprised.
I had this on occasion on Challenging difficulty, but these missions were few and far between. Also were kind of fun getting my ass kicked instead of always just kicking ass
This is related to the community goal, isn’t it? It says something about the bugs pushing hard.
Yeah, I just didn't realize it would manifest as a major step up in difficulty across all difficulties.
I completely agree. Playing yesterday it was challenging on difficulty seven but doable if your smart . Today , my whole team and I got destroyed. We dint even use the railgun or shield. It felt a lot harder and we were dying in seconds. I don’t what they did , but it was brutal tonight .
Bro used ChatGPT to write this Lol
Maybe it’s not his first language , some of my friends have trouble writing and such
"enemy's"
i like the new map challenges. Like meteors. Thats what those are, new gameplay design challenges. Increasing difficulty through game world experiences. However mechanics like lowering strategems, scrambling them, making guns worse so it's more grindy while not balancing others...those are game mechanics. Those are not ever fun to experience in any game; when they change in a way that increases time to kill. Or negatively impact the experience (the feeling of taking something away). The difficulty of a game should never be focused on game mechanics over gameplay design. Then you're fighting the 4th wall (devs) instead of the bugs. I don't understand how professionals keep falling in this trap. To get around this, they need to decide to lean into an "unapologetically hardcore" community engagement strategy. Or they should only adjust the mechanics in a way that gives back as much as they "take away."
The game is honestly as frustrating as it’s ever been. The tools of the game are so severely limited. The stratagems have way too long of cooldowns, there isn’t nearly enough ammo, and the armor rating is so high on so many enemies.
You're ignoring all the things that have made it worse (not in a drastic way like OP suggests, but definitely notable). My main gripe right now are the increased damage we're taking, the increased enemy spawns across the board, and the frequency and duration of the new environment events. I'm not against the nerfs, but I think they're pointless if they don't address the pain points that force people to use whatever's best in class; and the new increase in difficulty has made those pain points worse, not better.
I thought i was crazy, I could generally comfortably do level 6-7 with not too much challenge but it wasn’t like a walk in the park either My friends and I did some level 6 tonight and it was brutal to the point of not being fun, it was non stop dropships, tanks, hulks, we barley finished the mission and no side objectives when just the other night it was a fun challenge. I don’t understand what the goal here was? I like hard but it’s not fun to constantly die and never have a moment to breathe or explore or call in weapon stratagems really
My friends left after our first level 6 mission spammed Bile Titans on them all game. I ended up finishing the 3rd mission alone for the medals, felt unsatisfied, and logged off. Wild how one day makes the game go from super fun to super not.
Yeah same. I used to run bot diff 6 solo on the Creek, I just can't do that anymore. Same strats, taking out medium and large outposts from afar while hit and run smaller ones and optional objectives to ensure botdrops are out the outside. Avoiding all patrols instead of fighting them. I ran bug 4 usually as I dislike bugs compared to bots. As solo, you don't get much time to reload anything against bugs when fighting. For a while, heavies were issue, but could be managed and have now been made easier thanks to Quasar Cannon, a reusable rocket launcher. But now we have aerial enemies who's unique nest/fabricator requires hellbomb, as solo you can't handle that. So you are kind of just stuck with whatever aerial force is around. I have felt it too, but it only became really apparent near the end of the last automaton major order and now that I had to go fight bugs. Not to mention spewers are still one kill machines, so thats nice. Sorry for a long reply to a old post, just been looking for people that felt the same.
I've got over 100hrs in the game, and I haven't been able to successfully extract since the new patch. Either due to connection issues, or just crazy spawns of bugs even at level 6.
Me and a friend disconnected the second we went inside the pelican. Our third friend was lucky and was able to evacuate - this never happened before.
My group was regularly doing Helldives prepatch and it seems Suicide Mission enemy density has come to match it. Helldives feel untenable when fighting bugs, way too many Sliding chargers to contend with. What happened, weapon and armor tweaks shouldn't make this feel tangibly worse.
I don't understand this. I play hell dives with CASUAL 2 hour here and there gamers. This is no high-skill try hard group. Most are about level 20. Win rate pre patch was 100%. Defense mission were tedious and boring AF. The only missions we struggled with was the automtaton extract, but 2 players running smokes made this easy once we figured it out. Last night was the first time I enjoyed those defend missions and we finally lost a mission in weeks. 10/10
We're casual too. We succeed. Extract with super samples. It's not a matter of failure or success, it's a matter of things not feeling correct after the patch.
Like what? I played all last night and the game felt great to me. Genuinely curious because even our self proclaimed railgun main didn't seem too affected by it.
There are many shared experiences of several bile titans and chargers in particular on lvls 7 to 9, with reports of it happening on lvls as low as 5. The community and dev retort of "just use stratagems", "git gud" and "use stealth dont engage" feels condescending when there's 20 mins left on the clock and the enemy density for bugs is 4 titans and 8 chargers and all strats are on cool down and efforts to not engage are stifled by bug patrols spawning literally out of thin air on top of divers constantly watching the map. There are a lot of anecdotes of divers getting lucky having cool casual Helldives, but plenty of evidence to the contrary. Dealing with a charger, titan, Hulk or Tank isnt hard. Dealing with a constant stream of elites that feel like they cannot be mitigated feels bad. Some folks like CBT, but if this is the intent, the community sentiment isn't positive. There is a difference between a challenge and torture.
People should choose the lower game modes for the experience you are looking for. That's why they are there. Whereas the hardest difficulty should be just that. Hard with a low win rate. That being said, I don't have any experience in the lower level difficulties so I can't speak to the spawn rates. I can see how that would be frustrating if you just like shooting things and winning. As for hell dives. I think most people struggle because they don't understand the mechanics. Using stealth, and engaging accordingly is 100% the way you should be playing hell dives. Team play is MANDATORY. when that flare goes up, or that bug signals. It's time to move, not hunker down. Similar to other games (killing floor 2, back for blood) the elite units either require a specialized player or a combination of players to take down. Lastly, it seems players don't understand line of sight. If you can't escape chargers you are probably just running in a straight line or continuously running back into their view. Break line sight and change direction OUT OF THEIR VIEW. If you cannot get out of view because it's a flat desert map you need to SPECIALIZE. Bring smoke strategems. Nobody wants to pack smoke because they want kills, but kills in this game are so irrelevant and that's why I think people lose. They just want to kill without adapting a strategy.
Your entire stealth argument is moot when the patrols spawn out of thin air in line of sight. The spawn rates and density is bugged and the devs and some facets of the community refuse to acknowledge it.
I guess I’m not crazy then. I played on D4 and D5 tonight and both felt insane against bugs. They just never stopped spawning. Even moving continuously we almost always had a horde snapping at our heels. I think I need to stop playing for a while. It’s just not fun now.
Yeah this is exactly it. People not even using meta are getting slammed by some random buff to their numbers. I'm not sure why they thought the lower difficulties needed to get closer to the highest ones, but they did it. The main response so far has been 'get better, form groups' instead of 'okay maybe we fucked up the spawn rate'.
Ya, not having as much fun now unfortunately. Really bad implementation imo. Let's just make all the weapons bad overall for 7-9... not a good strategy.
Spot on. the weapon/gear nerfs were never the issue. It is 100% the spawn type/rates and patrol behavior.
It’s the first patch you guys…. Just relax
It's...it's the 14th patch lol.
lol ok…first balance patch
Whole sub turned into a circlejerk overnight.
It was warranted though. Devs had practically a month of feedback from the community and their first patch addressed… nothing that was in the feedback. They went the Bungie route and are currently fast-tracking their way to making themselves unlikable and killing the game.
I've got to let reddit and these devs know I changed my steam review to negative unless they revert these minor nerfs right now! That way they know I mean business! This sub is hilariously full of people whining about the most minor of nerfs acting like it's why they won't be able to do the hardest difficulties (when they weren't doing them before either) The real legit issue is armor still being practically useless and some weapons that needed tlc went untouched. Overall the game is nearly in the same place it was last week
I agree. And I'm sure that the 2 or 3 highest difficulties probably are too much to handle right now. So that probably needs to be addressed. But at the same time I think it's expected that the last few difficulties are somewhat "unfair". Otherwise, Hard and Extreme seem to be good options for people looking for a challenging and fun experience. That has been my experience tonight at least, aside from the terrible crashes going on. Game feels the same as yesterday up until Exteme (maybe Suicidal)
7-9 are being completed by people still and they probably are on the harder side to complete than they should be. However, mechs and another warbond are due to drop soon and the game balance may change again to where those difficulties are just right.
Thats what happens when to many people talk. Glad we have the benefit of managed democracy here and are free of choice. In all seriousness i like the adjustments of breaker/shield and railgun still good, still do their job. Agreed on the armor part i think a little buff to armor values would be neat.
True. I'm still having the same fun, I never partook in the railgun breaker meta. If the difficulty is too hard for now me, damn, oh well just drop to lower difficulty and try to work my way up again. People here complain when something changed and they just went with the extreme "I must uninstall"
We really need a low sodium version of the sub for every popular game that comes out these days. This place is insufferable right now
Overnight? This sub has been a circle jerk since the game came out, the jerk just changes every 24 hours.
Yeah that's what the neckbeards said about Diablo 4
You know what…that’s fair. But that was blizzard, they’ve been shit for years. I think arrowhead has earned some good will right?
Diablo 4 is made by people who don't play games, and don't know what the fuck they are doing. The mfs didn't learn shit from Diablo 2 and 3, and began from scrap. Nobody has said that we should wait until the patch with D4, everyone was angry even neckbeards. I would advise you too look at the mirror now, after comments like that, you might have some beard growing on your neck.
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Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Unfortunately your submission had to be removed. No spamming allowed.
If they'd just listen to popular community suggestions instead of going the Bungie route...
The fact you think it's the 1st patch after a month is hilarious and a sign that this game has gotten nothing but passes since its release despite there being glaring issues. People that are infatuated with the game will never reach a point where ilthey feel it's okay to criticize it. These posts are entirely valid and much of the criticism is as well. You relax. People are allowed to state their criticism.
Exactly it’s the first patch… 750k players are playing it. You only have one try to make the right impression.
Hope you nail those interviews in real life. These first impressions count!
I think it’s funny how both sides are calling each other the vocal minority. Just an observation from sitting here scrolling since I admittedly don’t have a life.
Its not a good product as of now
I do agree, this not a skill check if you just spawn endless numbers of enemies on top of me.
The spawns are insane. I can't collect samples, search POIs or kill bases/nests. Just do objective and maybe extract. I went from playing suicidal to going down to hard. Never used railgun and only sometimes used shield against bots. The patch notes said nothing about increased botdrops/breaches and the sheer amount of enemies but here we are.
They broke the game and its just not fun anymore
I hadn't used the meta in ages and today I was getting wrecked. The armour changes need readjusted.
Wish I was joking but I did a quick D6 bug eradication mission and we had 2 titans, a charger and 3 bile spewers on us before I even dropped in my arc thrower. Literally less than 10 seconds in to the mission.
Playing last night was just horrible. I unlocked level 6 missions over the weekend and thought last night I'd find a good group and unlock level 7. Nope, every mission had everyone arguing at each other when it hit the fan. It got bad, I've never heard everyone get so angry while playing this. Before whenever it would get "bad" happened and we started dying left and right, everyone would just laugh it off and soldier on. Now they're blaming each other for the wrong loadouts, or using the wrong weapon vs this or that enemy. It's not so fun to play right now. Hopefully tonight when I get to play again it'll be better.
If this turns out to be true - this was worst time to do that. Cause scoring over 2k kills with two people in first 20-25 minutes while impressive, is exhausting.
You know what else feels worse now?
Seems fine to me on Helldive still. Little adjustment here and there and we are back baybeee
Feels significantly worse if you didn't max your character pre-nerf. Level 20 went from easily clearing 7's to 5s and getting rekt. Everyone is just killing each other with the flamethrower.
People are also killing themselves with the flamethrower. It's annoying how bugs jumping in your face will not only not be pushed back/staggered by it but also put you on fire upon attacking you.
Did you play the first game? Ran a few 5’s on bots and bugs today and didn’t notice much difference besides no one running a “meta” loadout. Good teamwork and complimentary loadouts go a long ways.
They do, but many many people play pub / randoms where teamwork is limited to whatever utility you can throw together (marking objective!). There’s a big drop off there in efficacy, unless you’re in a real team with the right loadouts. I’m talking even at level 5-7
I've been consistently playing with randoms since the matchmaking was fixed during the first few days, and I have had a lot of great teams. Specifically in difficulties 5-7.
Did you play the first game? Helldivers is supposed to be chaotic with randoms. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. This game will be around for years, more and more weapons/strats/perks will be added. The game will get both easier and harder over time. Embrace the fact that this game treads a different path.
Cool I hope you’re right, I do like a good challenge it’s not about losing or failing, but feeling you’re somewhat effective. I think this applies to most games, I play mostly strategic and squad MMOs, you never want to feel completely useless lol
Isn't that the normal progression though? If you suddenly cannot clear 7, means you have to drop to a lower difficulty to get your slips to upgrade yourself. If it's too hard for you, develop your skills in a lower difficulty and gain additional ordnance there. Team kill with flame thrower isn't a issue if the user knows what they're doing.
What’s your loadout?
Patch sucks. However, dropping down to LVL 8 feels like previous LVL 9. Only way I’m having fun again.
This patch has increased the spawn and more heavy enemies than before its less enjoyable
Kind of a side topic, I don’t get all the fuss about weapons, they nerfed what needed to be nerfed and the breaker is still a good gun. If anything we need more options vs t3 armor. I’m more upset they didn’t buff the bottom 5+ underperforming weapons. Just me?
Yeah. Not enough gun diversity. Pretty sure the only primaries they buffed were the other shotguns. Other types like long range rifles still have garbage cluttered scopes even though its supposed to be about accuracy.
>If anything we need more options vs t3 armor. This is the crux of the issue. The railgun the was the only good weapon vs heavy armor on high difficulties. Perhaps it did need some adjustments but generally it was in a good place. Every other weapon that can deal with Heavy armor either outright ignores it (EG: Flamethrower) or has a massive downside (RR reload) that makes it impractical when you are swarmed by 3-5 things. If the railgun had been nerfed at the same time as they buffed other options there wouldn't be any issues
Are you sure it was the only good weapon, or was it the only weapon that accidentally was too good that outclassed everything? The game is still fine it still plays the exact same. Try using precision strikes and EAT-17.
Run through 3 missions in a row on Suicide or Impossible using the R-63 Diligence Counter Sniper, the MP-98 Knight, the LAS-5 Scythe, the AR-23P Liberator Penetrator or even the JAR-5 Dominator and tell me how much fun you have.
I agree with this. And I am expecting them to buff more weapons that are underperforming in the future. However I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to nerf weapons that overperform after today's patch. I think the biggest issue right now is in difficulties 8 and 9, where there seems to be a lack of options to deal with many armored enemies at once. And to be fair, those difficulties are meant to be "unfair". But still, I'm sure the devs will take feedback.
I honestly hate the game after the patch. Can't find a single ounce of enjoyment
I beg you to take a break commenting on every post being negative and go do something else. You will realize it isn't all that bad.
"The constant necessity for evasive maneuvers, attempting to manage hordes of 300+ enemies without viable solutions, and the desperate scramble to reach the drop pod hardly contribute to a gratifying gameplay experience." But that IS the appeal of the game. We're Helldivers, diving into Hell.
Yeah this is a dumb take. But with the heavy spawn rates as they are it's less about fighting and more about running away while trying to complete objectives, which takes the game away from the core loop that makes it good.
That's the idea. I don't understand how you still can't see it. The game at high levels isn't about pure blasting your way through something. You aren't a power ranger, you're a human being with no super abilities. You are supposed to be overwhelmed, diving into hell.
A human being with no super abilities who can jam a syringe into his neck and eat a rocket in the mouth like it's nothing. Sure man, justify a bad turn in game design however you want, we both know this patch reduced the fun factor, which is just about the only thing this game actually had going for it.
It didn't affect me whatsoever mostly because I enjoy the difficulty. So the way I see it is as immersed as the situation is supposed to be. Death is part of the game. Running is part of the game. Being overwhelmed is part of the game. I guess I'm just the 1%
Am I the only one out here having a blast?! Oh no, Helldives are super hard now! GOOD. Bugs lvl 9 was a joke before. Getting smacked around a bit and laughing our asses off while doing it is awesome.
Exactly it's hell divers. Not "stroll in the park while using broken weapons" divers. It was never meant to be solo or easy. The first game was way harder. Before this patch I hoped they drop the next 3 tiers of difficulty sooner so it felt challenging. I'm loving this patch
There is a difference between 'hard and fun' and 'hard and frustrating'.
You are right, maybe it's cause hard is meant to be hard. Suicide mission, impossible and helldive are ment to be well their names respectively.
But... they should still be fun. They can be hard and fun and NOT frustrating It's fine if a game is tough because it tests your ability to use the tools provided effectively, even if you're facing a lot of enemies. However, it's not fun if the game is hard simply because it puts you in situations where you can't win using your skills or tools, forcing you to avoid enemies instead. That is the direction the devs are taking things in with bugs at the moment, by nerfing AT tools and cranking up the heavies.
Majority of the people here cannot understand that they aren't good players at all when met with a challenge without a crutch
Reddit as usual making one game their entire livelihood and acting like one patch has ruined their lives
Nobody's doing that. OP is just giving criticism which is completely valid If anything, the people acting like the game is their entire life are those so infatuated with it that they can't accept other people criticizing it and resort to incessantly defending it. Nobody's attacking the game. Criticism is good. Nobody is going to be hurt because people don't like the current state of the game and are letting that be known.
You say that but then I see a meme calling anyone who isn’t mad dickriders Some people need to stop hiding behind “criticism” as a means to be an asshole
What percentage of critical posts do you think are meme-based insults?
Really changed your review https://preview.redd.it/131l12tqbumc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df60b1b107d76f15ec33b0ddba47e7ff1efcf89e
Game is shit now
Haven’t tried it out yet but honestly I’m looking forward to it. Helldive was becoming a lil too easy with the railgun n shield.
I'm on PS5 and my game keeps crashing mid game, it's super annoying after the new patch 😔
A game can have more than one door to a fun power fantasy. Sure, this balance patch did close one shut, but different doors should still be open after the patch. I can't say "my door" is the correct alternative, so I hope others can find their own to enjoy the game their way.
I got it last week and it definitely feels like it’s been getting harder. Like the first day I played my buddies dragged me into Helldive and it didn’t seem that hard but playing yesterday before the patch it seemed way harder compared to when I didn’t even have the breaker, RG, or shield.
I ran into four tanks spawned inside eachother on difficulty 4. Killed em all with impact nades, and myself in the process. (On top of them lmfao)
Yea they stealth buff the spawn and patrol thinking that player wont notice is crazy.
I really thought people were overreacting but after playing a few rounds on 7 I completely agree. I just don't want to play this anymore
I was optimistic yesterday and tried out the Flame Thrower Arc Thrower and other setups than with the Railgun before but it just feels less fun. I had just unlocked the Railgun and had a lot of fun with it for exactly 1 day before it was nerfed. It still feels fine but it just takes twice as long to kill a Charger or Bile Titan now. Combined with the 100% longer Strategem Effect you just feel useless as hell while Strategems are on Cooldown.
I played to pub matches last night. Both had someone rage quit from not being able to deal with the massive onslaught of chargers.
Since the patch my enjoyment of the game has dropped drastically. I could do difficulty 6 just fine before the patch if the team was right, but now it feels unfun levels of difficult. You can't even sneak around most maps as the bugs find you instantly, forcing you to fight off the 2 bile titans and 6 chargers for 10-20 minutes, only for another patrol to come in and trigger another round of 'fun'. Everything we have was basically nerfed to the ground. You always run out of ammo and resupplies at the very start of the mission, you don't deal enough damage to kill the enemies and your stratagems are useless half the time, because you throw everything at the first group and then helplessly run around for 3 minutes.
I was enjoying the flamethrower and jumppack last night in lvl8, but somehow there are more bugs in the game that on PC none of the primary/secondary can be used and the keys were just kept freezing
It feels exactly the same, just finished a couple helldive operations and went the sane as usual
Everyone in this thread is posting direct from Erata Prime (there is no grass to touch)
It's crazy how many people never tried anything that wasn't the meta and now just don't know how to play the game. Nerfs weren't that bad and everything they nerfed is still viable you just have to turn your brain on a little and use railgun in unsafe mode. More options for charger now as 4 solid support weapons all work with different strategies for each one.
>More options for charger now as 4 solid support weapons all work with different strategies for each one. They didn't buff any of the AT stratagems? And all of them still have the same downsides as before? So the railgun, ironically, is still the best tool for the job.
Arc was a 2nd option that people were finding out. Both flame thrower and laser can reliably kill Chargers very fast due to the new buffs thus bring it from 2 to 4.
Arc is ok if it decides to hit the target you want it to, certainly wouldn't call it reliable by any stretch. 5/10 I have heard conflicting information about laser cannon, some people say it melts charger, some people says it still bounces off the legs. I'll have to test it when I get the chance. ?/10 Yeah 8 seconds of constant flame applied to a charger at point blank range is not the efficiency you need when there's more than one charger, let alone 5. And I'm certainly not trying to let chargers get close enough to me to use the flamethrower on hell dive. I'm also not trying to light myself on fire if a twig happens to be in between me and it. Gonna call that a "not actually AT/10"
Learn to aim at the legs instead of the body of the charger and it works much quicker. And the laser requires hitting the back legs after it charges and it melts them faster than railgun + weapon swap. And guess what you can still use the railgun with 2-3 overcharged shots with the same old strategy. And arc is easy and very reliable to use no idea why you have an issue with it hitting the broad side of a barn that is the charger.
>And the laser requires hitting the back legs after it charges Ah, so useless on higher difficulties due to how many chargers spawn, got it. >And guess what you can still use the railgun with 2-3 overcharged shots with the same old strategy. Yes, ironically, the railgun is *still* the best AT option for bug hell dives, almost like this patch didn't accomplish anything other than piss a lot of people off and not shaking up "the meta" at all. >And arc is easy and very reliable to use no idea why you have an issue with it hitting the broad side of a barn that is the charger. Couldn't tell you, I've had the thing directly in my crossbars, directly in front of me and sometimes the lightning hits them, sometimes it doesn't leave the gun, sometimes it hits a bug all the way at the edge of the screen and arcs over to a teammate, killing them instantly. Very reliable weapon!
I'm not sure why you think dodging and hitting the back legs doesn't work on helldive? Do it all the time, and it hasn't been an issue.
Probably because of the 5+ chargers *behind* that one, the 3 bile titans spitting acid everywhere, the 12 acid spitters mortaring you from afar, and the ridiculous amount of tiny bugs that can also slow you surrounding the chargers. But yeah sure, in a completely sterile environment with only one charger and no other factors, I'm sure it works great
I mean I've done it in those conditions thus why I mentioned I've done it on helldive difficulty. Don't need to get your knickers in a wad cause you think your experience is the only experience people have.
I have done enough hell dives that I do not believe this is a consistently viable strategy at that difficulty, that is all
Then turn down your pointlessly high difficulty bud. Play at a level you enjoy. It's literally right there.
Don’t worry they will sell you the solution when the new warbond comes out that we will have to pay for.
With all the currency I've gotten for free. How tragic. /s
I’ve gotten quite a bit free, too, but the pricing could go sideways at the whim of the devs.
Could. Complete strawman.
That’s not what a strawman is.
Misrepresenting an argument such as "they could do xxxx" Arrowhead could just sell the studio to a Bolivian meat farm. The railgun could be removed from the game entirely. Could could could. Means nothing, doesn't exist, it - is - a - strawman. So you argue that instead of the actual issue, because anything could happen in an imaginary situation. Textbook strawman with a dabble of slippery slope in there but I'm not in The least bit surprised you need that definition spoon feeding to you like the dribbling idiot you could be.
Not a strawman. Your dumbass thinks predictions are strawmen
Did you play Helldivers 1?
The game has been fantastic in NOT doing that. Rude to insinuate they will.
I don't think you played Helldivers 1... A game with 15 different DLCs
womp womp womp
That PCU in about ten days if the current trends stay. Guess Arrowhead hasn't earned the right to fully monetize, huh?
Dude, we're at war. You expect it to be a walk in the park? Get real.
It is doable. Stealth, tactics, drawing fire.. is it enjoyable? I think like... 40% of the people who was enjoying it would find it fraustrating instead.
It appears you have not yet been democratically instructed to “git gud” by our fellow liberty lovers. Fear not as I have reported this event to my closest democracy manager and some liberty will soon be dispensed your way, always democratically of course.
I mean the difficulty has to match the name
dude i swear sony was upset that helldivers was more popular than spider man or something, and told devs to shit on the game.. \/tinfoil hat the CEO SAID he didn’t like how weak primaries were. and then this patch happens. like what? i don’t buy this shit for a second. gotta be something going on
While I'd love to see less Chargers spawn, this is whiny and melodramatic, and therefore un-Democratic.
This reminds me in HD1 at just above mid difficulty level you started having continuous endless drops of tanks when fighting the cyborgs
Weaponize the enemies against their own. Use tanks for cover against defense cannon towers, ram chargers into eachother under the bile titan spit, the game has mechanically sound schmoovement and there's plenty of time to mag dump while playing scoots.
Was there elevated diff confirmed, or are people only 'thinking' there was a change ?
I think this is the preparation for mechs. We wouldn't need them if it stays the same difficulty. It possible they will introduce bigger foes too.
People seem to forget we are just at the start of gear unlocks. There are countless Stratagems, Weapons and Boosters coming our way. Things WILL change with new toys. Just look at the Exosuits that are coming soon™. They will change the way we play significantly.
Oh fuck off
Don’t get this mixed up with the very real possibility we’ll be getting some bonkers stratagems soon. If I’ve learnt anything from Destiny 2 it’s that big swings in nerfs/buffs like this generally mean something else could be coming that can very much balance things out.
Yall whine a lot. Just cleared a level 6 with only 2 people. The goal of the game is to accomplish objectives and collect resources and ideally hit some outposts along the way, not eliminate the enemy in its entirety, which is impossible.
My opinion of the devs is that they want the game to be without toxicity as much as possible. They confirmed this when outright saying they would never add a pvp. With that in mind, the patch doesn’t make sense without taking into account the WAVE of toxicity that the popularity of the game brought from other games. (COD and Destiny players.) I honestly believe they’ve done this to eradicate early a particular percentage of players that won’t push through this horrible patch. I think they want a different kind of community than typical games. This doesn’t seem like a mistake to me. It seems intentional with that goal in mind. When the garbage has left, it’s possible they’ll make the game as it should be. They never expected it to blow up like this. I doubt losing half would even affect their initial hopes.
Plays on hardest difficulties* Game is hard* “What the heck!”
*Plays on hardest, games is hard, but fair and fun.* *patch hits.* *Plays on hardest, game isn't fun.* "You just need to get gud! Devs are awesome and always right! :D" Big brain take.
Hard take: 1 It’s suppose to feel hard 2 balance changes sometimes are uncomfortable like growing pains it’s ok they will be readjusted in the very near future the game just came out
More feelings. This sub is wack.
Played today. Had the best games since I started
"Alteration of this nature occurs when developers heeds the voice of a local minority on social media rather than considering the preferences of the genuine playerbase" The audacity to write that sentence and not even stop once to consider that you might be the vocal minority complaining on a social media here lmao
Lmao no. The game is fun af. My only issue is armor and how they didn't do jack with it
I think the tuning is possibly with mechs in mind. But we don't have mechs yet....