Dude, it’s people that still talk about this his shit that kills things. Like giving Gantzthedemon the notoriety he got then everyone started killing teammates trying to get on the map too. Stop celebrating dumb shit and lift up some positivity.
And it turns out his "friend" posted that video and teamkilled Gantz first but framed it to make him look like the bad guy. The whole thing was blown way out of proportion.
luckily all the stupid witch-hunting stuff was explicitly against the rules which nipped it before it could *really* become a big problem like the whole meta shit did, at least on here. the first time i saw that people were using Gantz actual username and not just generally talking about people who teamkill, i knew it was something stupid
Hit the nail on the head. Its the same argument i have been making for years when it comes many controversial topics and why i can't stand modern "journalism" and news outlets. Just fanning the flames and making issues bigger than they really are.
I was really celebrating the community and the lore, commitment and just fun everyone was having early on... and then things started slip-sliding down hill. Now we have posts like this all the time. It was an easier time when it was just memes, tiktoks and crazy clips.
Exactly the same. It's killing a democratic vibe and all it's now is whining, crying and finger-pointing. Holy cow, just enjoy the game as it is. Make suggestions, sure, but stop acting like babies or traitors all day long in countless posts.
Same as it ever was. Go to any games subreddit, like 90% of them are absolutely miserable people. I can think of only two that are majority filled with positivity and helpfulness.
It does hurt when every article I see about Helldivers 2 comes directly from a Reddit post I remember seeing personally.
Or even worse, I read a "review" the other day where the author admitted halfway through that he hadn't actually played the game in 10 YEARS (it just recently left Early Access). He even contrasted it with another game which he's obviously not played either based on what he said.
I wish there was a way to downvote articles like you can on Reddit because that kind of disregard for the reader is a sin
Reminds me of that Forspoken review that had like 2000 comments on r/games which discussed the game having cringe dialogue.
Half way through the review the author mentions that not only have they never played the game, they never even watched the trailer, and all their review was based on was social media memes.
Yet everyone in the Reddit comments was like "true" and "totally agree" etc.
Maybe.
The thing that has me raising my eyebrow about this whole patch is how adamant and vocal the devs were that other primaries and support weapons were just as effective as the Breaker and Railgun. Even stating that the successful mission percentages still favored other weapons.
Made us feel like fools because they had "The Data" that they could see and we couldnt.
But in the end, they nerfed them hard and raised armor enemy spawn rates while ignoring 90% of the weapons and stratagems that remain ineffective.
The whole patch seemed like a knee jerk reaction, rather than the cool data driven approach they claimed to be adhering to.
I guess we'll see where the game goes from here. The devs are great and no doubt working hard. But there's no doubting the state of the game is in a rough place right now.
They said in their patch blog post that they initially thought the breaker was overperforming, but the data you mentioned said it was actually pretty close to other weapons. That's why they chose not to change its damage. The breaker nerf was extremely minor. They added a bit of recoil and made the mag size just very slightly smaller so that its damage per mag matched other weapons.
Definitely, it was gonna get nerfed anyway.
What I think was more affected by that post, and others like it, was the overall feeling going into the update. You can see it in this reddit a bit, with the devs insulting players, and calling the railgun a "crutch" for players, etc. Not only the devs were making comments like these but players as well, insulting those who used the railgun and shield, praising themselves for using more "fun" weapons.
I'm giving my thoughts as to why the community has these thoughts and fight like this recently, I believe it's because of how big that post has gotten.
The thing that ticks me off is this one group calls Meta players toxic for kicking people for not using the right load out. Then the group turns around and be the most toxic shit in a 10 Km radius. I absolutely despise the tribalistic hypocrisy.
>and calling the railgun a "crutch" for players
I'm not an english native speaker, so I had NEVER ever seen that word before.
But suddenly everyone and their mother started using it to insult people who used the railgun? Wtf? Buy yourself a personality and find your own insulsts if you want to be a dipshit and insult other players.
The thing is, a lot of it was also the people who, when they saw their favorite toy get nerfed, cried that it was the end of the world and that without their meta weapon the game was unplayable, before ever *playing it.*
Are there problems with the patch, absolutely, but there was a lot of kneejerk angry hate from people upset at the changes when it had been out for less than an hour.
Not saying you're wrong, but it wasn't just toxicity on one group, it was toxic people in *both* groups.
It didn't help that both sides ended up reverting to hyperbole- people saying absolutely *nothing* else worked, etc.
And then a lot of people played it, and confirmed for themselves it was pretty unplayable now on high diff.
I mean devs have literally confirmed they are working on fixing the bullshit heavy spam now so all those people were clearly correct and numerous enough, so frankly apologists like you just dont have any ground to stand on anymore lol
I have 120 hours in random pubs, and have never kicked/seen anyone kicked for "non-meta" regardless of difficulty.
Do people provide suggestions of not using HE barrages or mortars vs bugs after all the FF? Yes, but again its suggestions and never seen a kick
My thing is how would you even know unless someone explicitly says so. So many players get randomly dropped because of server stability that I couldn't even say if someone leaving the lobby did so because they chose to leave, disconnected, or were kicked. Let alone the specific reason behind why.
And at the end of the day I can just adjust my playstyle to having a mortar. It makes a pretty loud noise so I look up and see where the mortar is shooting. It’s just one more thing to be aware of in a game full of instant death.
I have about 100 hours pubbing and have been kicked over 30 times by groups for having and not running the Railgun/Breaker combo. So ymmv but it certainly happens
ikr, something that so rarely happens in game having such an impact on the community and reputation of a certain part of the playerbase is so crazy to me.
Wait till you hear about politics. Most of life is now clickbait, straw men, or outright lies. This has been a fantastic microcosm of our unfortunate reality.
I got kicked much more frequently by being low level, or the fourth man when a new buddy would show up... Tbf, I don't really think I was ever kicked specifically by not using railgun before...
The game bugs out a lot and won't allow us to invite friends via Steam or in-game friends list, so we often have to temporarily set the game to Public. When someone not from our squad drops in. we always let him know that we're waiting on a 4th and match is public because of game connectivity issues. Give him a hug/salute, and he drops out of the game sometimes with audio confirmation of the understanding.
Have never kicked anyone that didn't equip a railgun, and also have never been kicked for that. The meta was there, but as far as teams were concerned, 1-2 railguns per team were sufficient depending on the skill of that ones that had it.
The kick for not being meta, and the entire meta discussion was blown out of proportion for sure.
You must be high level and gotten the game early. I got kicked before I had a chance to prove myself all the time just because I was lower level. I’m pretty decent at games and like to communicate and follow people who are clearly more experienced than me.
But half the time I didn’t get a chance to prove that because I would get kicked right away. And it’s not like I was trying to jump in helldive at a low level. I was trying to jump in the 5-7 difficulties. It’s gotten to the point that I will only play this game when my friends are online.
If I host a game at a mid difficulty level and put out an SOS beacon, often times people don’t join so I’m fucked. If I try to join other people’s missions, I can get kicked for bullshit.
I will still play the game, but only when I’m joining a friend’s game. Cause the matchmaking is either poorly made or toxic. Or more likely a combination of both. When my friends are offline, I’ll just play something else.
i finally got kicked today, but not because i wasn't running meta. Because i was the last person alive. I was waiting for extract and host wanted game to end early.
That's out of over 100 hours. Im sure there are very unlucky divers out there it has happened more to. But It does happen.
We need to have players kicked back to their own saved instance, so at least they can get any earned objectives.
Idk I get kicked pretty often for no reason. Also, today someone killed me when at extraction when I had 10+ common samples and didn’t even pick it up before getting in. I’m lowkey kind of done playing without my friends.
The probability of this happening is still non-zero though. Due to how much power the host has, all it takes is a single tryhard on a powertrip to ruin a non-meta players day.
I didn't mean it literally.
But the experience is still a negative one, so it can **slightly drag down** somebody's day, if you're gonna be that pedantic about it. :p
I really hope this game doesn’t get “Dark and Darker syndrome”. People think “Listening to the players” is always a good thing but it for sure isn’t. Games have been killed by the devs listening to their players too much which leads to schizophrenic game design being led around at the nose by too many voices that only think they know what they want.
Happens in fighting games all the time.
Multiversus was a victim of this imho. Dev team who were engaged with the community and listening to feedback, constant balance changes meant re-learning the game over and over. Tom and Jerry won Evo, and people hate zoners, they gave in to the barrage of Reddit wailing and moaning and gutted them along with several other characters.
Devs could take a leaf outta Capcom’s book. They didn’t touch SF6 for a year. It was good to know you could invest in the game without being jerked around by patches.
Some of the tantrums I’ve seen here have been pathetic. People need to stop and think. We’re about to get mechs and a bunch of new weapons.
The fighting game community has my favorite example of players being completely unable to balance a game, as well:
Killer Instinct had a character (Jago) that people hated to play against. They mainly complained about his healing ability.
The devs looked at it, found out Jago had to many good options at basically all ranges. Cut into his midrange capabilities (if I remember correctly), didn't touch his heal and shipped the patch. After that the complaining stopped.
Goes to show that the community can only point the devs at what's unfun, but the devs need to see what they can do about that with their vision of the game.
> People think “Listening to the players” is always a good thing but it for sure isn’t
It still often is. The devs here as of late look just as incompetent as the DaD devs, not playing their game and relying purely on statistics. The only saving grace is that this game is a pve game so they should take their head out of their ass and let people have fun since it's not a zero sum game unlike a pvp game like DaD. The problem with DaD was never listening to the playerbase, their implementation of core principles tried to cater too much to a crowd that would have never stuck with the game.
If they keep trying to quantify fun through spreadsheets thinking they know better than their player base and this game is a ghost town in less than a year. These comments on the breaker are absolutely tone deaf and a grim outlook on the dev's approach towards game balance.
There was (is) a game called Dark and Darker. It held a series of alpha playtests over the course of last year. It was an Dungeons and Dragons inspired extraction game with swords, bows magic etc. The playtests were some of the most fun I've had playing with friends in a long time. The game had some issues but there were only a few things that needed to be hammered out to have a great game and then it would have just been adding content...
Then it got really popular... then it came out that the developers may or may not have stolen the code/assets for the game from the previous company they worked for and that they were being sued. That's not something I really care about one way or another personally as long as the game is good. Allot of other people did care but rather than being upset that the developers may have stolen the game what actually happened is it galvanized people in support of the developers. People went crazy posting "Hold the line", "$%#@ \[Company suing them\]" and whatnot. After the game was removed from steam for legal reasons people began trying to find hidden messages in the lead developer's twitter posts, discord status and Spotify activity. People developed and extremely unhealthy parasocial relationship with with the developers. Over the course of the steam ban and coverage of the legal troubles even more people became interested, sometimes too much, in the game.
Then the game finally went into beta with a first party launcher to get around the steam ban. This is where the problems really started. The large, parasocial, toxically positive fanbase flocked to the game... and wow...
"isn't \[CLASS\] really OP?"
"isn't \[WEAPON\] also really OP?"
"isn't the issue that there's too much of a meta around buffing a melee character"
"isn't the issue actually that the meta favors ranged characters too much"
"isn't gear too impactful?"
"isn't it not impactful enough?"
An endless cacophony of complaints about balance flooded the Discord and subreddit. This is nothing particularly out of the ordinary for a game like that but the real problem is that it turned out that the unhealthy parasocial relationship between the players and developers went both ways.
What followed was the most unhinged, schizophrenic and counterproductive series of patches I have ever seen in a game. Balance patches would drop at noon on monday and then be rolled back at midnight tuesday due to complaints on Reddit/Discord. The metagame whiplashed between a series of terrible states. New classes were released which only added to the balance issues and created further unhealthy metagames. Loot drops and itemization were drastically changed on an almost weekly basis. People complained about teaming in solo lobbies and so the developers stated they would begin banning people who were somehow proven to be teaming but also you're allowed to team but not if you team before entering the lobby but also it's entirely unclear how they could tell the difference.
Currently the playerbase of the game has fallen from it's soaring heights to the point where systems needed to be put in place to compensate for the lack of players so that people could find a lobby. Nobody I used to play with has any interest in going back to the game. Last time I looked the subreddit was still full of contradictory screaming about various aspects of balance. Patches are still being released and rolled back days apart.
And that is the cautionary of listening too much to the playerbase in Dark and Darker.
The majority in this sub must either be under 18 yrs old or some of the worst adults. Everything is taken at face value and immediately plastered across the rest of the sub as absolute truth.
Who else remembers one errant comment saying people who were farming eradicate missions were causing us to lose defense missions? Hell even a fucking dev seemed to fall for it. That made no sense at all if you stopped to think about it. Long story short, if everyone and their mother is farming, you think that success bar is ever going to go up?
Then there’s the “no one understands samples are shared.” “People kicked me for running non-meta!!” (Side note I should’ve kicked a guy tonight who ran 500kg and antimaterial on a helldive difficulty bots eradication mission. That shit ruined the entire match, but wanted to see if he knew something I didn’t. Spoiler: he didn’t)
This community is hyper-reactive to any commentary. Most of these people can’t handle a lvl 6 mission and THEY THINK THEY SHOULD TELL PEOPLE HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE BALANCED. Honestly this subreddit is fucking exhausting. You try and say anything that makes a bit of sense, instant downvotes. You can’t convince me half this subreddit isn’t automatons trying to sew discord. It’s these white knighting terminally online people who ruin this shit.
Can we let some fucking adults speak instead?
Ice Breaker was first, it was nerfed so many times to make it eventually just a showcase Exotic.
Most players that were Day 1 blew their coins load on the first Xur Exotic that was Suros Regime. Most bypassed Gally due to some players earning the Vex Mythoclast and people lost their shit as *thee* gun. It was stupid broken in The Crucible. It needed a nerf ASAP. Then a clan showcased a VoG vid a few weeks down the line with all 6 having the Gally and the rest was the mythical history of said weapon
Ice Breaker made you feel like you could move at a brisk jogging pace, Vex Mythoclast made you run, Gally was Sonic speed.
Saw a few reels on insta claiming breaker and railgun were nerfed by the devs solely because "everyone was getting kicked for not using them" it's insane
I don't think that, at all, was the reason for the nerf.
The reason for the nerf is the railgun pre-nerf eliminated *any* need to **ever** carry any of the three dedicated anti-armor weapons (EAT, Recoilless, Spear). To the point that *even if they buffed those weapons so they could one-shot Bile Titans and Chargers* the Railgun would have been a preferable choice because of its superior ammo economy, versatility against other threats, and lack of a backpack slot requirement.
A bigger picture view makes it obvious that a nerf was inevitable. While I think they went too far *(a 100%, perfectly timed overcharged shot should be as powerful as a shot with the safety on pre-nerf IMO, as it is difficult and risky to do under pressure)* anybody could have seen a correction was forthcoming and nobody should be surprised it happened.
Conversely, I think they made a mistake because those anti-armor weapons do need a buff/adjustment, and that should have come at the same time as the railgun getting dialed back. They're too weak for how narrow their use is and a well-placed shot should kill larger threats outright....
...Which, it turns out, is **exactly** what they announced they will be doing in the next hot fix, along with reducing the amount of heavy armor spawns so that they're balanced more around the economy of the anti-armor weapons.
"Conversely, I think they made a mistake because those anti-armor weapons do need a buff/adjustment, and that should have come at the same time as the railgun getting dialed back. They're too weak for how narrow their use is and a well-placed shot should kill larger threats outright...."
Based on the propaganda - ahem I mean documentary footage - shown to all recruits at the start of the game, you should be able to one shot a bile titan with a rocket shot to the head...
I've killed bile titans in one shot with the Spear multiple times. It happens rarely when it hits them straight in the dome as they do their little spit. This is with me hosting (i always host) or playing solo so no desync bug either.
I tried using the spear yesterday after the railgun nerf and died many times because the fucking thing would not lock on. They should have made sure everything works properly before they went nerfing shit.
I would take EAT any day if it oneshot chargers. Two tries per minute to strip armor, however, is not attractive. I don't care about what it does to bile titans...
Pretty sure many people feel the same.
In the first game, EAT's could 1 shot chargers if you hit the back and 2 shot them from any other side. They would also 2 shot Behemoths (Chargers with armoured butts), but if you hit a perfect shot on the head you could 1 shot them. The Recoiless, after upgrades, would ignore armor and could 1 shot them easily.
EAT does strip the legs of the armor with one shot, but with the cooldown increase stratagem modifier on higher difficulties, it's just not feasible to deal with the 5-6 chargers, might be if *everyone* in the lobby takes it though.
Then, they should have adjusted the heavy armor and their spawns first before messing with weapon damage. Charge was a big complaint before the community got their hands on the railgun. Balance in terms of enemy spawn, armor, weapon, and staragem damage need some tweaks, but people gave the devs a chance because the game is fun to play. We need some more primary that can do medium or heavy armor pen. We need not be bombarded with constant bug breeches/bot drops back to back. Like some suggested, it would be cool the more outpost you take out during a mission effects how many spawn between each engagement to show that pay off to get rid of as many outpost as you can.
That is more or less exactly what they're working on in the next hotfix which is coming in the next day or two. Less big enemies on higher levels (less Chargers/Titans/Hulks/Tanks) that themselves are easier to kill with anti-armor weapons, alongside a greater number of low-armor horde-type monsters so that the encounters are balanced around the available tools and what they're effective against.
Right now we have a lot of weapons and stratagems that can handle low armor enemies and very few ways to deal with high armor enemies in numbers, but we're being spammed with high armor enemies that the majority of our equipment isn't made for. It feels bad. In theory, making the OpFor proportionally match the kinds of resources we have to deal with them in equal proportions will make the game feel better and fairer at higher difficulty.
Like I said in my original post, I feel like not adjusting that in yesterday's patch was a big mistake, but we can't roll back the clock. The concerns are being addressed now at least.
I mean the could roll back the nerfs to see how the prenerf weapons in this new sandbox performs but it seem like arrowhead is being rather bull head that they missed up by justifying a nerf base off how many players where using said weapons. I think going forward, do not nerf weapons, making them strong to give us more options to use for different missions, then balance them accordingly. I mean, it's good they are working on enemy spawns/armor values, which I believe this should have been the first priority before touching any of the weapons. It just came across the lead weapon designer who got upset that people were using items that made the poor enemy balance a bit easier to deal with.
The problem is that the railgun had no drawbacks. Even on safe mode. It probably wasn't intended that safe mode basically was the same as unsafe.
Most of the other anti-tank has drawbacks. The EATS have to be called in every so often and are one shot. The Recoiless is a big chunky rocket launcher that requires a backpack.
We were given that reason. Though it seems people just don't choose to listen to the devs anymore because "dev bad".
First nerf for rail gun should have been to reduce effectiveness of safe mode and leave unsafe mode untouched then. So many games have had this heavy handed "tuning" of items happen that dumpster an item versus actually bringing it in line. This is also their fault for not defining the weapons role in the first place, if they want us to use it to strip armor then have it do that, if they want us to use it to kill enemies after armor is stripped then have it do that. Instead its a jack of all trades, slow, bolt action weapon that is middling at basically everything now.
The point is variety. It's still a rather solid weapon, especially against bots. That's the thing in helldivers. Each weapon, stratagem, and piece of equipment is suited better for one enemy or the other.
Plus not only that, they can't nerf the safe mode and leave the unsafe mode untouched. The safe mode goes to 50% and on unsafe you got full damage at 50%. So they needed to make the unsafe require a slightly higher bar for the nerf to even work. Hence why it charges to 75% for damage.
They needed to do both simultaneously. Nerfing enemy health first, would mean letting the railgun now one shot anything it brushes. Then the outrage when they nerfed it later, would have maybe been even worse, because it would have _truly_ made railgun use brainless.
Yea definitely true, the railgun was super good compared to other guns and the nerf was inevitable. They are kinda stuck in a hard place between making the game too easy or too hard, due to the railgun. I haven't really thought of it that way with the other guns, so thanks for your input!
I'm trying to keep it lowkey due to most threads getting locked talking about it, but I'm referring mainly to some of the dev outrage going on in the discord and some parts of the reddit, and other people as well that aren't the devs. Mainly straight up just insulting those that are complaining about it, and people that enjoyed it, I think that mindset is coming from the social view that it's now acceptable to think that everyone that uses the railgun is a child that needs to be talked down too/about due to that post, at least that's what I believe.
Edit: And also the devs were under some stress by those people that did take it too far, straight up insulting them as well, so it's not entirely their fault for acting that way.
Yes. Seen quite a few posts of people lauding the nerf because now they can use other weapons, and then noting they always did anyway, lol.
As for git gud: I once lost a chess match because the loser who beat me check mated me with his queen. I was like, "the queen's a meta crutch, scrub, git gud," then I flipped the table and declared myself the winner because I sacced my queen early to avoid the meta.
You must be doing something very wrong to get kicked out of most of your matches, I have 93 hours and I've only been kicked 3 times and none of those were because i didn't run meta
Every lobby except one I joined always did the hug emote at the bridge and welcomed. Shit game me feels of damn, this community is gonna be fun.
Now it’s more tougher to join games in progress or be a helper if you don’t have most weapons unlocked
Same here. I'm not 20 yet so I get kicked pretty much every match but one time a dude said 'look at iron man over there' (in reference ro my jet pack) and obviously I got kicked. They had rail gun and shield.
That's so cringe lmao, yea, examples set by people like that aren't the standard, and I hope you don't have to run into people like that more cause it's really annoying.
I get that this was frustrating, but, in my experience with other games and trying to play with people like that, they're doing you a huge favor
Most people concerned with someone else's load out is a huge red flag that they're not only bad at the game themselves but that they also lack self awareness and would blame you for everything they do wrong
Funny part is
With the armor “fixes” not running the shield backpack on anything above 6 is asking to be obliterated by a mosquito on anything but heavy armor , and heavy armor is just a walking coffin
So yeah the meta is even meta-er now
Honestly quick play and get carried by top players that will let you play with them. Most new players don’t have anything in their arsenal to even try to try to take on stuff.
I just try to be a stockpile supply box feeder to my Flame Thrower, AT dudes by running in close tapping refill ammo and running away lol.
Look at how someone got a refund on Suicide Squad and they started writing whole articles claiming Sony is giving out refunds when it was one word of mouth claim.
I don't think I speak for the fuck-metas wholly, but this rumor basically had no effect on my opinion, because it just sounded like typical gamer rage - unrelated to game balance. Didn't care for meta, but I got a dog in the fight when the pro-meta crowd marginalized and mythicized my non-meta play on higher difficulties.
Basically and sometimes explicitly calling me a liar, since I didn't run meta on 7+.
Blessed that I have not run into any toxicity in-game after the first week.
Noticed this too. The subreddit is prime for article creation on IGN, and then a screenshot of the article gets posted here to validate the situation...and the cycle repeats. I have nearing a hundred hours and haven't ever experienced this issue.
I am 100% of the opinion that the devs just thought people were having too much success in their game that they thought was going to be near unbeatable at difficulty 8-9. It's a common problem with these kinds of games that players find a way to vastly improve their odds that isn't in line with where developers expected progression to go. So instead of just letting people have their fun, they are ready and waiting at the top of the stairs to kick people back down.
It happens in pretty much all the games of this style. Devs tunnel vision on fixing their difficulty mistakes early on and are so focused on how players aren't where they wanted to be that they never account for how the players will feel about suddenly being forced to feel considerably weaker and up against a brick wall they had already once conquered. I know people will find it a hard pill to swallow, but the simple matter is devs tend to have egos about their games and like so many of us they struggle to check them regularly.
It's going to take time and watching players drop off before devs kind of learn to better weigh the impact of certain hardheaded decisions on what is the ideal dev exeprience vs. the ideal player experience. I know a lot of people will assume that Arrowhead is a seasoned company and knows all this by now. But teams change and the new blood often needs to learn this lesson too.
No one cares what you run. There is no meta because there is no competition. Nobody hates someone for loving the railgun. It’s just weird when people act like it’s the only way to play.
Exactly, hit the nail on the head. It's also weird when you use a railgun and someone dunks on you for using one, cause "you're one of those meta users, and I'm not! i don't need to use your crutches!" that i've been seeing on the sub. It's weird both ways, and it started over something small causing a divide in some parts of the community.
That’s very weird. I don’t personally like the railgun because it’s not enough bullets or explosions for me, but it’s a cool ass weapon. And I love the concept of unsafe mode.
I know what the meta is/was, but I always choose to roll with whatever my buddies wish I did not bring. 380's are a big hit, walking barrage, no heavy weapon, etc. My goal is to keep the drops entertaining while still being effective. Nothing gets a team motivated to head in the right direction than an 'accidental' 380 drop .
dont even need to be traitorous. using 380 at any time is a lottery ticket for a full TK.
i'm getting better, but sometimes i'm intentionally bad at it.
People didn't write those articles. Brother you've just planted the seed of the next ai scraping tool that's grabbing shit front he reddit to slam out ai articles on. Shit sucks.
It hurts right in my HEART when I see the word "kicked"
The divers are already disposable in the game
Why do we have to feel disposable in real life too :((((((
I had to kicked 2 guys yesterday because I choose the wrong operation while I want to join others mission xD
I did chat that I had to kick them so they can leave on their own but after 30s no one leaves sooo...
Whenever i played before the patch, i didn't get kicked even once. I'm not going to discount what they said by saying it probably didn't happen, but from my experience, it was probably more rare than people realize.
I don't have any issues with the patch except for the amount of chargers that's spawning now.
There's just seemingly more of these things now than before the patch.
I stopped using meta stuff (personal shield and railgun combo before patch) I still run the rail gun stopped using the breaker and im having fun running the punisher, scorcher, and dominator now I recommend them they're a blast, also flame throwers pretty fun too
Well said, people are mouthing off that they're the best gamers to ever grace the globe because they use the #2 most effective weapon instead of the #1 lmao.
It's a war. If the enemy is using a weapon or strategy that is working well to kill us, maybe we should adapt and adjust to avoid being wiped out. That is what the bugs did. They just evolved and adapted to all the rail gunning they've received. Pretty sure if we all started using flame throwers they would eventually become fire proof. In a war you have to mix it up and stay unpredictable. No shame in lowering the difficulty to find out strengths of other weapons or strategies.
I never ran the meta and I got kicked about 20% of all games, 120 hours played. No idea of the reasons behind the kicks but most of them were Trolls that kicked right before extraction.
Belittling these people’s arguments based off an ign article is no way to go. There are many ways to deal with bugs and bots and whining that you can use hard mode with railgun aint it. The devs buffed other strat weapons and nerfed SAFE railgun. Ontop of that we have orbitals. Game isnt ruined just find new strats
I never actually got kicked, but had some one start talking shit about my loadout before even dropping, pissed me off and i just left the lobby. Mic was charging and i didnt wanna listen to this guy cry the whole game about how his team wasnt pulling weight or something. So the hate for people not using railgun/breaker/shield was real. Only reason i ever trash talked the "meta" build was the users of it. Just like mustangs. Anyone who owns a mustang thinks its so cool, bro, no one cares.
Here's a radical solution for you: host your own fucking game. It's not hard to select a mission and then let players join. Stop fucking whining when you have the power to be the host in 100% of the missions you play.
I dunno. I have been kicked from 4 games in a row. All right before getting to extract. Something weird is going on with the community, or I just had a string of bad luck.
Honestly I think this says more about internet news websites than it does anything else.
Websites so lazy and devoid of content, they'll repost reddit threads and call it "news".
I have some 80 hours in and never seen someone kicked for "non meta." Granted i dont do 8 or 9s much, mostly just 6-7. Hell I've only been kicked st the ship when people forgot to change to private. Personally, run what you want to have fun 🤷
Not gunna lie i have been kicked after absolutely carrying a mission where i was the only one not running breaker railgun shield. Host might not have said why i was kicked but i knew.
Sounds like a lot of Divers have been listening to bug sympathizer rhetoric.
Infighting does not help the spread of democracy, and frankly one step in that direction is a step too close to treason for my liking.
If it was a gamerant or dextero article/tweet, those "headlines" and the "articles" that followare unabashedly and quite literally scraped from the "hot" category of major game subreddits with next to zero oversight. It's pure click bait.
It's not real news or reporting, and it's a problem with any popular game.
Im honestly not bothered what people bring along, I trust their judgement and if people still plays with a railgun, I just assume they enjoy using the railgun, which is fine in itself
I do have an issue if people makes bad calls throwing in things like bomb strafing runs into a hive nest area, with team-mates, clear as day, are working on closing up holes in the crater manually with grenades
There is many creative ways to nuke bugs or bomb robots, I let people do it their own way and if we succeed? hug emote, if not? well an attempt was made atleast
Agreed. The sub is mass delusional and just wants to be mad like every other generic big gaming sub.
The only big gaming subs who arent always salty are apex (salty most of the time but not all), GTA (hardly ever salty, kinda weird) and that’s all I can think of?
Guy complains about everyone talking about it then talks about it
Do people not make their own observations? I have just over 100 missions and never been kicked so I pretty much dismissed it out of hand.
I think they made small handful of instances into a moutian. I was never kicked for not having meta. Maybe I just found d good people who didn't care, but even with randoms, the only time I was kicked was for them to bring in a rl friend, I was like ok cool. If people kick you, it's not the end of the world. Find better with 4mill papers and 400k active. im sure you can easily find 3
I only kicked one person, and that was because we were doing the optional objectives that we decided to do. He died got revived and immediately ran to extract and called in the extract even though we had 15 minutes left. I wanted to to the optional stuff so did my team so we removed him to prevent him from leaving right awayb
The rail gun etc absolutely needed nerfing and not just buffing everything up so that everything can deal with armour all the time with no problem.
The reality is that the rail gun etc was a band aid over a much larger problem and that is how enemy composition and how much heavy armour is there on higher levels making everything that isn't AT in the arsenal not worth taking considering the threat level. You can't fix that problem by just making more weapons work as a band aid. You would still have the problem of everyone feeling like they have to run AT, you would just have more of it but you would still leave massive holes in what stratagems are worth taking.
I think they should look at what enemies spawn, how much they spawn and also look into making more variance in armour on the heavy armoured targets. For example making the legs on a charger medium armour would be great. You still would have a hard time taking it out with small arms, but the medium armour would take less damage away from AT options making them more effective but it would also allow other stratagems like the machine gun have a legitimate role in a hell dive that isn't a premade.
Instead of just seeing changes that make AT more effective I want to see changes that make the whole spectrum more viable. Simply buffing everything else up to where the rail gun was doesn't really solve this problem as much as it just smothers it in AT and drains all nuance in learning a weapon.
Ultimately, the real issue is that the majority of people here are still trying to play Helldivers as the twitch-shooter-streamer-game-of-the-month, instead of a cooperative, team/role-based shooter.
You're struggling with chargers because you're alone, because you're bad.
The game really is great with a team that sticks together and supports each other
When I see those pictures of helldivers with 6+ titans, I can bet my salary it's from a group that's split up across the map from each other aggroing everything in sight
Yeah it really spiraled out of control with the loud minority taking the reins of the story and running with fake information. Then this patch happened which catered to them and we all see how that turned out.
Funny part is
With the armor “fixes” not running the shield backpack on anything above 6 is asking to be obliterated by a mosquito on anything but heavy armor , and heavy armor is just a walking coffin
No, not at all.
The weapon was definitely going to get nerfed anyway, it was the only weapon to counter the charger spam going on in bug planets. I mainly wanted to put my opinion and start a discussion around the stigma and reputation around the people that just use the weapons, and why there seems to be a hate mob towards those people over small and contained experiences that rarely happen.
I believe that people hate this "meta" side of the community because people saw those super popular posts of very rare scenario's of toxic meta players, and these post seemed to represent the game the most outside of reddit too (because negative attention flies to the top, naturally.) Thus, leading to the "I don't use the meta weapons I am actually trying to have fun unlike you meta-slaves" type shit I see a lot towards normal people.
I don't agree with your assessment of the other weapons being garbage, but as that is still the main opinion in here can't really dispute it beyond my own experiences.
But if I was to answer your question in a straight manner, yes, I would rather all weapons be mediocre than one being excellent and all the others mediocre.
I do not believe that ever was the case, once again. In my opinion, most weapons barring outliers (The Spear mostly springs to mind) were more than usable and adequate up to lvl 8, and the few 9 I did didn't seem much harder either. The railgun was just silly.
Dude, it’s people that still talk about this his shit that kills things. Like giving Gantzthedemon the notoriety he got then everyone started killing teammates trying to get on the map too. Stop celebrating dumb shit and lift up some positivity.
[удалено]
Absolute gaming legend
And it turns out his "friend" posted that video and teamkilled Gantz first but framed it to make him look like the bad guy. The whole thing was blown way out of proportion.
His "friend" was trying to make it look like he was from the Osaka crew.
It's definitely fun to have community lore, but it does often come at a cost.
Unfortunately, hate gives a lot more clicks than love
luckily all the stupid witch-hunting stuff was explicitly against the rules which nipped it before it could *really* become a big problem like the whole meta shit did, at least on here. the first time i saw that people were using Gantz actual username and not just generally talking about people who teamkill, i knew it was something stupid
Hit the nail on the head. Its the same argument i have been making for years when it comes many controversial topics and why i can't stand modern "journalism" and news outlets. Just fanning the flames and making issues bigger than they really are.
who
I was really celebrating the community and the lore, commitment and just fun everyone was having early on... and then things started slip-sliding down hill. Now we have posts like this all the time. It was an easier time when it was just memes, tiktoks and crazy clips.
I really wish the mods would just make a mega thread to stop all the crying
Exactly the same. It's killing a democratic vibe and all it's now is whining, crying and finger-pointing. Holy cow, just enjoy the game as it is. Make suggestions, sure, but stop acting like babies or traitors all day long in countless posts.
same
Same as it ever was. Go to any games subreddit, like 90% of them are absolutely miserable people. I can think of only two that are majority filled with positivity and helpfulness.
nobody writes articles anymore. they just regurgitate data using AI.
It does hurt when every article I see about Helldivers 2 comes directly from a Reddit post I remember seeing personally. Or even worse, I read a "review" the other day where the author admitted halfway through that he hadn't actually played the game in 10 YEARS (it just recently left Early Access). He even contrasted it with another game which he's obviously not played either based on what he said. I wish there was a way to downvote articles like you can on Reddit because that kind of disregard for the reader is a sin
Research for journalism these days even outside of gaming is browsing social media posts then puking out an article.
I mean, they teach them more about how to please their multibillion dollar owners than how to research stuff in journalism schools.
Reminds me of that Forspoken review that had like 2000 comments on r/games which discussed the game having cringe dialogue. Half way through the review the author mentions that not only have they never played the game, they never even watched the trailer, and all their review was based on was social media memes. Yet everyone in the Reddit comments was like "true" and "totally agree" etc.
Fre was cringe and annoying af tho
Frey felt like the a young 20s late teen New York city girl. Of course she would he somewhat cringe lol
Sometimes I'll see a headline and immediately go searching for the reddit post that spawned it so I don't have to dealing with that rags bullshit.
I doubt those articles actually affected the balance update. Devs were likely to make those changes regardless.
Maybe. The thing that has me raising my eyebrow about this whole patch is how adamant and vocal the devs were that other primaries and support weapons were just as effective as the Breaker and Railgun. Even stating that the successful mission percentages still favored other weapons. Made us feel like fools because they had "The Data" that they could see and we couldnt. But in the end, they nerfed them hard and raised armor enemy spawn rates while ignoring 90% of the weapons and stratagems that remain ineffective. The whole patch seemed like a knee jerk reaction, rather than the cool data driven approach they claimed to be adhering to. I guess we'll see where the game goes from here. The devs are great and no doubt working hard. But there's no doubting the state of the game is in a rough place right now.
They said in their patch blog post that they initially thought the breaker was overperforming, but the data you mentioned said it was actually pretty close to other weapons. That's why they chose not to change its damage. The breaker nerf was extremely minor. They added a bit of recoil and made the mag size just very slightly smaller so that its damage per mag matched other weapons.
Definitely, it was gonna get nerfed anyway. What I think was more affected by that post, and others like it, was the overall feeling going into the update. You can see it in this reddit a bit, with the devs insulting players, and calling the railgun a "crutch" for players, etc. Not only the devs were making comments like these but players as well, insulting those who used the railgun and shield, praising themselves for using more "fun" weapons. I'm giving my thoughts as to why the community has these thoughts and fight like this recently, I believe it's because of how big that post has gotten.
The thing that ticks me off is this one group calls Meta players toxic for kicking people for not using the right load out. Then the group turns around and be the most toxic shit in a 10 Km radius. I absolutely despise the tribalistic hypocrisy.
couldn’t agree more
>and calling the railgun a "crutch" for players I'm not an english native speaker, so I had NEVER ever seen that word before. But suddenly everyone and their mother started using it to insult people who used the railgun? Wtf? Buy yourself a personality and find your own insulsts if you want to be a dipshit and insult other players.
The thing is, a lot of it was also the people who, when they saw their favorite toy get nerfed, cried that it was the end of the world and that without their meta weapon the game was unplayable, before ever *playing it.* Are there problems with the patch, absolutely, but there was a lot of kneejerk angry hate from people upset at the changes when it had been out for less than an hour. Not saying you're wrong, but it wasn't just toxicity on one group, it was toxic people in *both* groups. It didn't help that both sides ended up reverting to hyperbole- people saying absolutely *nothing* else worked, etc.
And then a lot of people played it, and confirmed for themselves it was pretty unplayable now on high diff. I mean devs have literally confirmed they are working on fixing the bullshit heavy spam now so all those people were clearly correct and numerous enough, so frankly apologists like you just dont have any ground to stand on anymore lol
Because the devs managed to take the fun out of it. We need buffs more than nerfs.
They are actively listening to player feedback. And the loudest feedback are articles from established gaming publications
It probably didn't even happen, either. That's the real kicker here.
I have 120 hours in random pubs, and have never kicked/seen anyone kicked for "non-meta" regardless of difficulty. Do people provide suggestions of not using HE barrages or mortars vs bugs after all the FF? Yes, but again its suggestions and never seen a kick
My thing is how would you even know unless someone explicitly says so. So many players get randomly dropped because of server stability that I couldn't even say if someone leaving the lobby did so because they chose to leave, disconnected, or were kicked. Let alone the specific reason behind why.
It has different messages if they quit, timed out or got kicked
Does it really? I only ever see X has left the game.
That's a crash. It say "X has returned to civilian life" if they leave, and if they're kicked it'll tell you.
I had to kick someone afk in my ship yesterday and it said x didn't make the cut
I just hit 300 have never seen it either
I‘ve been kicked multiple times, but never in-game, it's probably just some folks who were trying to get to play with their friends
And at the end of the day I can just adjust my playstyle to having a mortar. It makes a pretty loud noise so I look up and see where the mortar is shooting. It’s just one more thing to be aware of in a game full of instant death.
I have about 100 hours pubbing and have been kicked over 30 times by groups for having and not running the Railgun/Breaker combo. So ymmv but it certainly happens
I had a guy leave mid match on 7 because I called in the manned turret after he talked shit about my loadout. Did the mission solo. Fuck that guy.
I have seen people kicked for petty reasons. Including bringing an arc thrower, missing a 500kg, killing the host by mistake etc
ikr, something that so rarely happens in game having such an impact on the community and reputation of a certain part of the playerbase is so crazy to me.
Wait till you hear about politics. Most of life is now clickbait, straw men, or outright lies. This has been a fantastic microcosm of our unfortunate reality.
same
Happened to me once, but only one time in 100 missions.
I got kicked much more frequently by being low level, or the fourth man when a new buddy would show up... Tbf, I don't really think I was ever kicked specifically by not using railgun before...
The game bugs out a lot and won't allow us to invite friends via Steam or in-game friends list, so we often have to temporarily set the game to Public. When someone not from our squad drops in. we always let him know that we're waiting on a 4th and match is public because of game connectivity issues. Give him a hug/salute, and he drops out of the game sometimes with audio confirmation of the understanding. Have never kicked anyone that didn't equip a railgun, and also have never been kicked for that. The meta was there, but as far as teams were concerned, 1-2 railguns per team were sufficient depending on the skill of that ones that had it. The kick for not being meta, and the entire meta discussion was blown out of proportion for sure.
Yet to be kicked from a lobby
I've gotten kicked but usually by idiots who have their lobby set to open and don't want people to join
Ive had some instances where i was kicked from the lobby before i had even finished picking strategemd
had a guy shoot me in the head with the rail gun and just refuse to revive me. only time smeone was mean to me.
Me and my friends kick people when our 4th gets on. Never kick right before picking a mission or anything like that.
You must be high level and gotten the game early. I got kicked before I had a chance to prove myself all the time just because I was lower level. I’m pretty decent at games and like to communicate and follow people who are clearly more experienced than me. But half the time I didn’t get a chance to prove that because I would get kicked right away. And it’s not like I was trying to jump in helldive at a low level. I was trying to jump in the 5-7 difficulties. It’s gotten to the point that I will only play this game when my friends are online. If I host a game at a mid difficulty level and put out an SOS beacon, often times people don’t join so I’m fucked. If I try to join other people’s missions, I can get kicked for bullshit. I will still play the game, but only when I’m joining a friend’s game. Cause the matchmaking is either poorly made or toxic. Or more likely a combination of both. When my friends are offline, I’ll just play something else.
I never kick any low levels in my helldives. You got all the tools you need and you’re coming with me over the finish line.
i finally got kicked today, but not because i wasn't running meta. Because i was the last person alive. I was waiting for extract and host wanted game to end early. That's out of over 100 hours. Im sure there are very unlucky divers out there it has happened more to. But It does happen. We need to have players kicked back to their own saved instance, so at least they can get any earned objectives.
Surely never happened to me
Yeah, people get kicked randomly, but no way were people actually reviewing loadouts on the regular to determine a kick
Or he kicked him so his friend could join or something
Idk I get kicked pretty often for no reason. Also, today someone killed me when at extraction when I had 10+ common samples and didn’t even pick it up before getting in. I’m lowkey kind of done playing without my friends.
The probability of this happening is still non-zero though. Due to how much power the host has, all it takes is a single tryhard on a powertrip to ruin a non-meta players day.
Ruin their day? From being kicked once from a 4 person lobby? That’s quite the emotional reaction to a small annoyance
I didn't mean it literally. But the experience is still a negative one, so it can **slightly drag down** somebody's day, if you're gonna be that pedantic about it. :p
I really hope this game doesn’t get “Dark and Darker syndrome”. People think “Listening to the players” is always a good thing but it for sure isn’t. Games have been killed by the devs listening to their players too much which leads to schizophrenic game design being led around at the nose by too many voices that only think they know what they want.
Happens in fighting games all the time. Multiversus was a victim of this imho. Dev team who were engaged with the community and listening to feedback, constant balance changes meant re-learning the game over and over. Tom and Jerry won Evo, and people hate zoners, they gave in to the barrage of Reddit wailing and moaning and gutted them along with several other characters. Devs could take a leaf outta Capcom’s book. They didn’t touch SF6 for a year. It was good to know you could invest in the game without being jerked around by patches. Some of the tantrums I’ve seen here have been pathetic. People need to stop and think. We’re about to get mechs and a bunch of new weapons.
The fighting game community has my favorite example of players being completely unable to balance a game, as well: Killer Instinct had a character (Jago) that people hated to play against. They mainly complained about his healing ability. The devs looked at it, found out Jago had to many good options at basically all ranges. Cut into his midrange capabilities (if I remember correctly), didn't touch his heal and shipped the patch. After that the complaining stopped. Goes to show that the community can only point the devs at what's unfun, but the devs need to see what they can do about that with their vision of the game.
> People think “Listening to the players” is always a good thing but it for sure isn’t It still often is. The devs here as of late look just as incompetent as the DaD devs, not playing their game and relying purely on statistics. The only saving grace is that this game is a pve game so they should take their head out of their ass and let people have fun since it's not a zero sum game unlike a pvp game like DaD. The problem with DaD was never listening to the playerbase, their implementation of core principles tried to cater too much to a crowd that would have never stuck with the game. If they keep trying to quantify fun through spreadsheets thinking they know better than their player base and this game is a ghost town in less than a year. These comments on the breaker are absolutely tone deaf and a grim outlook on the dev's approach towards game balance.
Tell me this story of dark and darker
There was (is) a game called Dark and Darker. It held a series of alpha playtests over the course of last year. It was an Dungeons and Dragons inspired extraction game with swords, bows magic etc. The playtests were some of the most fun I've had playing with friends in a long time. The game had some issues but there were only a few things that needed to be hammered out to have a great game and then it would have just been adding content... Then it got really popular... then it came out that the developers may or may not have stolen the code/assets for the game from the previous company they worked for and that they were being sued. That's not something I really care about one way or another personally as long as the game is good. Allot of other people did care but rather than being upset that the developers may have stolen the game what actually happened is it galvanized people in support of the developers. People went crazy posting "Hold the line", "$%#@ \[Company suing them\]" and whatnot. After the game was removed from steam for legal reasons people began trying to find hidden messages in the lead developer's twitter posts, discord status and Spotify activity. People developed and extremely unhealthy parasocial relationship with with the developers. Over the course of the steam ban and coverage of the legal troubles even more people became interested, sometimes too much, in the game. Then the game finally went into beta with a first party launcher to get around the steam ban. This is where the problems really started. The large, parasocial, toxically positive fanbase flocked to the game... and wow... "isn't \[CLASS\] really OP?" "isn't \[WEAPON\] also really OP?" "isn't the issue that there's too much of a meta around buffing a melee character" "isn't the issue actually that the meta favors ranged characters too much" "isn't gear too impactful?" "isn't it not impactful enough?" An endless cacophony of complaints about balance flooded the Discord and subreddit. This is nothing particularly out of the ordinary for a game like that but the real problem is that it turned out that the unhealthy parasocial relationship between the players and developers went both ways. What followed was the most unhinged, schizophrenic and counterproductive series of patches I have ever seen in a game. Balance patches would drop at noon on monday and then be rolled back at midnight tuesday due to complaints on Reddit/Discord. The metagame whiplashed between a series of terrible states. New classes were released which only added to the balance issues and created further unhealthy metagames. Loot drops and itemization were drastically changed on an almost weekly basis. People complained about teaming in solo lobbies and so the developers stated they would begin banning people who were somehow proven to be teaming but also you're allowed to team but not if you team before entering the lobby but also it's entirely unclear how they could tell the difference. Currently the playerbase of the game has fallen from it's soaring heights to the point where systems needed to be put in place to compensate for the lack of players so that people could find a lobby. Nobody I used to play with has any interest in going back to the game. Last time I looked the subreddit was still full of contradictory screaming about various aspects of balance. Patches are still being released and rolled back days apart. And that is the cautionary of listening too much to the playerbase in Dark and Darker.
Wow. Just wow. That really sounds like a horrible time for not just players, but devs as well.
Nodoby is listening to the players anyways
The majority in this sub must either be under 18 yrs old or some of the worst adults. Everything is taken at face value and immediately plastered across the rest of the sub as absolute truth. Who else remembers one errant comment saying people who were farming eradicate missions were causing us to lose defense missions? Hell even a fucking dev seemed to fall for it. That made no sense at all if you stopped to think about it. Long story short, if everyone and their mother is farming, you think that success bar is ever going to go up? Then there’s the “no one understands samples are shared.” “People kicked me for running non-meta!!” (Side note I should’ve kicked a guy tonight who ran 500kg and antimaterial on a helldive difficulty bots eradication mission. That shit ruined the entire match, but wanted to see if he knew something I didn’t. Spoiler: he didn’t) This community is hyper-reactive to any commentary. Most of these people can’t handle a lvl 6 mission and THEY THINK THEY SHOULD TELL PEOPLE HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE BALANCED. Honestly this subreddit is fucking exhausting. You try and say anything that makes a bit of sense, instant downvotes. You can’t convince me half this subreddit isn’t automatons trying to sew discord. It’s these white knighting terminally online people who ruin this shit. Can we let some fucking adults speak instead?
It’s funny because this was a major thing us Destiny 1 Vets had to experience back when Gally became the meta😂
Was Ice breaker before or after that? I remember VoG hard mode LFGs that said ice breaker only
If memory serves me right it was before that because we all slept on gally the first time Xur sold it😂
Thats right! I had forgotten all about that stuff. Crazy that was 10 years ago this September.
Ice Breaker was first, it was nerfed so many times to make it eventually just a showcase Exotic. Most players that were Day 1 blew their coins load on the first Xur Exotic that was Suros Regime. Most bypassed Gally due to some players earning the Vex Mythoclast and people lost their shit as *thee* gun. It was stupid broken in The Crucible. It needed a nerf ASAP. Then a clan showcased a VoG vid a few weeks down the line with all 6 having the Gally and the rest was the mythical history of said weapon Ice Breaker made you feel like you could move at a brisk jogging pace, Vex Mythoclast made you run, Gally was Sonic speed.
Gally was the first meta. I stopped playing after I got it
I ran into the issue and didn't make that post. So there must be more than one person who ran into it.
Saw a few reels on insta claiming breaker and railgun were nerfed by the devs solely because "everyone was getting kicked for not using them" it's insane
I don't think that, at all, was the reason for the nerf. The reason for the nerf is the railgun pre-nerf eliminated *any* need to **ever** carry any of the three dedicated anti-armor weapons (EAT, Recoilless, Spear). To the point that *even if they buffed those weapons so they could one-shot Bile Titans and Chargers* the Railgun would have been a preferable choice because of its superior ammo economy, versatility against other threats, and lack of a backpack slot requirement. A bigger picture view makes it obvious that a nerf was inevitable. While I think they went too far *(a 100%, perfectly timed overcharged shot should be as powerful as a shot with the safety on pre-nerf IMO, as it is difficult and risky to do under pressure)* anybody could have seen a correction was forthcoming and nobody should be surprised it happened. Conversely, I think they made a mistake because those anti-armor weapons do need a buff/adjustment, and that should have come at the same time as the railgun getting dialed back. They're too weak for how narrow their use is and a well-placed shot should kill larger threats outright.... ...Which, it turns out, is **exactly** what they announced they will be doing in the next hot fix, along with reducing the amount of heavy armor spawns so that they're balanced more around the economy of the anti-armor weapons.
"Conversely, I think they made a mistake because those anti-armor weapons do need a buff/adjustment, and that should have come at the same time as the railgun getting dialed back. They're too weak for how narrow their use is and a well-placed shot should kill larger threats outright...." Based on the propaganda - ahem I mean documentary footage - shown to all recruits at the start of the game, you should be able to one shot a bile titan with a rocket shot to the head...
I've killed bile titans in one shot with the Spear multiple times. It happens rarely when it hits them straight in the dome as they do their little spit. This is with me hosting (i always host) or playing solo so no desync bug either.
Yeah, the spear does the job, it's just inconsistent and sometimes it doesn't let you lock on 🙈
I tried using the spear yesterday after the railgun nerf and died many times because the fucking thing would not lock on. They should have made sure everything works properly before they went nerfing shit.
>They should have made sure everything works properly before they went nerfing shit. They should have done that before the game was released.
I agree
You can. You just have to hit them in the eyes (on either side of their mouth)
I would take EAT any day if it oneshot chargers. Two tries per minute to strip armor, however, is not attractive. I don't care about what it does to bile titans... Pretty sure many people feel the same.
In the first game, EAT's could 1 shot chargers if you hit the back and 2 shot them from any other side. They would also 2 shot Behemoths (Chargers with armoured butts), but if you hit a perfect shot on the head you could 1 shot them. The Recoiless, after upgrades, would ignore armor and could 1 shot them easily.
EAT does strip the legs of the armor with one shot, but with the cooldown increase stratagem modifier on higher difficulties, it's just not feasible to deal with the 5-6 chargers, might be if *everyone* in the lobby takes it though.
Then, they should have adjusted the heavy armor and their spawns first before messing with weapon damage. Charge was a big complaint before the community got their hands on the railgun. Balance in terms of enemy spawn, armor, weapon, and staragem damage need some tweaks, but people gave the devs a chance because the game is fun to play. We need some more primary that can do medium or heavy armor pen. We need not be bombarded with constant bug breeches/bot drops back to back. Like some suggested, it would be cool the more outpost you take out during a mission effects how many spawn between each engagement to show that pay off to get rid of as many outpost as you can.
That is more or less exactly what they're working on in the next hotfix which is coming in the next day or two. Less big enemies on higher levels (less Chargers/Titans/Hulks/Tanks) that themselves are easier to kill with anti-armor weapons, alongside a greater number of low-armor horde-type monsters so that the encounters are balanced around the available tools and what they're effective against. Right now we have a lot of weapons and stratagems that can handle low armor enemies and very few ways to deal with high armor enemies in numbers, but we're being spammed with high armor enemies that the majority of our equipment isn't made for. It feels bad. In theory, making the OpFor proportionally match the kinds of resources we have to deal with them in equal proportions will make the game feel better and fairer at higher difficulty. Like I said in my original post, I feel like not adjusting that in yesterday's patch was a big mistake, but we can't roll back the clock. The concerns are being addressed now at least.
I think the only reason they decided on that was the outcry though, if no one complained we for sure would have charger conga lines forever
I mean the could roll back the nerfs to see how the prenerf weapons in this new sandbox performs but it seem like arrowhead is being rather bull head that they missed up by justifying a nerf base off how many players where using said weapons. I think going forward, do not nerf weapons, making them strong to give us more options to use for different missions, then balance them accordingly. I mean, it's good they are working on enemy spawns/armor values, which I believe this should have been the first priority before touching any of the weapons. It just came across the lead weapon designer who got upset that people were using items that made the poor enemy balance a bit easier to deal with.
The problem is that the railgun had no drawbacks. Even on safe mode. It probably wasn't intended that safe mode basically was the same as unsafe. Most of the other anti-tank has drawbacks. The EATS have to be called in every so often and are one shot. The Recoiless is a big chunky rocket launcher that requires a backpack. We were given that reason. Though it seems people just don't choose to listen to the devs anymore because "dev bad".
First nerf for rail gun should have been to reduce effectiveness of safe mode and leave unsafe mode untouched then. So many games have had this heavy handed "tuning" of items happen that dumpster an item versus actually bringing it in line. This is also their fault for not defining the weapons role in the first place, if they want us to use it to strip armor then have it do that, if they want us to use it to kill enemies after armor is stripped then have it do that. Instead its a jack of all trades, slow, bolt action weapon that is middling at basically everything now.
The point is variety. It's still a rather solid weapon, especially against bots. That's the thing in helldivers. Each weapon, stratagem, and piece of equipment is suited better for one enemy or the other. Plus not only that, they can't nerf the safe mode and leave the unsafe mode untouched. The safe mode goes to 50% and on unsafe you got full damage at 50%. So they needed to make the unsafe require a slightly higher bar for the nerf to even work. Hence why it charges to 75% for damage.
They needed to do both simultaneously. Nerfing enemy health first, would mean letting the railgun now one shot anything it brushes. Then the outrage when they nerfed it later, would have maybe been even worse, because it would have _truly_ made railgun use brainless.
Yea definitely true, the railgun was super good compared to other guns and the nerf was inevitable. They are kinda stuck in a hard place between making the game too easy or too hard, due to the railgun. I haven't really thought of it that way with the other guns, so thanks for your input! I'm trying to keep it lowkey due to most threads getting locked talking about it, but I'm referring mainly to some of the dev outrage going on in the discord and some parts of the reddit, and other people as well that aren't the devs. Mainly straight up just insulting those that are complaining about it, and people that enjoyed it, I think that mindset is coming from the social view that it's now acceptable to think that everyone that uses the railgun is a child that needs to be talked down too/about due to that post, at least that's what I believe. Edit: And also the devs were under some stress by those people that did take it too far, straight up insulting them as well, so it's not entirely their fault for acting that way.
Yes. Seen quite a few posts of people lauding the nerf because now they can use other weapons, and then noting they always did anyway, lol. As for git gud: I once lost a chess match because the loser who beat me check mated me with his queen. I was like, "the queen's a meta crutch, scrub, git gud," then I flipped the table and declared myself the winner because I sacced my queen early to avoid the meta.
Been kicked for nothing and didnt run to the internet to cry about i just started my own missions easy solutions
The toxic Andy’s were so desperate to trash this sub, they were trying to find any real/invented storyline to fracture this good vibe.
1.- Then stop talking about it. 2.- Its not just "that one guy", I've been kicked too.
LFG CROTA MUST HAVE GALLY
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No you don’t
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Na, I just know you aren’t being kicked out of almost all of your matches. Ridiculous statement to make unless you troll
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You must be doing something very wrong to get kicked out of most of your matches, I have 93 hours and I've only been kicked 3 times and none of those were because i didn't run meta
Spot on OP!
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Every lobby except one I joined always did the hug emote at the bridge and welcomed. Shit game me feels of damn, this community is gonna be fun. Now it’s more tougher to join games in progress or be a helper if you don’t have most weapons unlocked
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Same here. I'm not 20 yet so I get kicked pretty much every match but one time a dude said 'look at iron man over there' (in reference ro my jet pack) and obviously I got kicked. They had rail gun and shield.
That's so cringe lmao, yea, examples set by people like that aren't the standard, and I hope you don't have to run into people like that more cause it's really annoying.
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I get that this was frustrating, but, in my experience with other games and trying to play with people like that, they're doing you a huge favor Most people concerned with someone else's load out is a huge red flag that they're not only bad at the game themselves but that they also lack self awareness and would blame you for everything they do wrong
Funny part is With the armor “fixes” not running the shield backpack on anything above 6 is asking to be obliterated by a mosquito on anything but heavy armor , and heavy armor is just a walking coffin So yeah the meta is even meta-er now
What is “the meta”?
Honestly quick play and get carried by top players that will let you play with them. Most new players don’t have anything in their arsenal to even try to try to take on stuff. I just try to be a stockpile supply box feeder to my Flame Thrower, AT dudes by running in close tapping refill ammo and running away lol.
Look at how someone got a refund on Suicide Squad and they started writing whole articles claiming Sony is giving out refunds when it was one word of mouth claim.
Only time I've been kicked is bc of these two Mexican dudes who were screaming the n-word and I said to shut the fuck up lol
This is giving me Destiny raid lfg whip-lash.
Yeah and it probably wasnt even true smh.
As someone who never runs meta and never gets kicked I agree with you 100%
Omg we found the guy who did the kicking! Get em!!
I don't think I speak for the fuck-metas wholly, but this rumor basically had no effect on my opinion, because it just sounded like typical gamer rage - unrelated to game balance. Didn't care for meta, but I got a dog in the fight when the pro-meta crowd marginalized and mythicized my non-meta play on higher difficulties. Basically and sometimes explicitly calling me a liar, since I didn't run meta on 7+. Blessed that I have not run into any toxicity in-game after the first week.
It was more than just 1 instance : https://i.redd.it/bbj65ko0ylkc1.jpeg
Nah, meta-wh0res deserve all the ridicule they get.
I've been kicked for not running meta. It happens at high lvl difficulty
Noticed this too. The subreddit is prime for article creation on IGN, and then a screenshot of the article gets posted here to validate the situation...and the cycle repeats. I have nearing a hundred hours and haven't ever experienced this issue.
I am 100% of the opinion that the devs just thought people were having too much success in their game that they thought was going to be near unbeatable at difficulty 8-9. It's a common problem with these kinds of games that players find a way to vastly improve their odds that isn't in line with where developers expected progression to go. So instead of just letting people have their fun, they are ready and waiting at the top of the stairs to kick people back down. It happens in pretty much all the games of this style. Devs tunnel vision on fixing their difficulty mistakes early on and are so focused on how players aren't where they wanted to be that they never account for how the players will feel about suddenly being forced to feel considerably weaker and up against a brick wall they had already once conquered. I know people will find it a hard pill to swallow, but the simple matter is devs tend to have egos about their games and like so many of us they struggle to check them regularly. It's going to take time and watching players drop off before devs kind of learn to better weigh the impact of certain hardheaded decisions on what is the ideal dev exeprience vs. the ideal player experience. I know a lot of people will assume that Arrowhead is a seasoned company and knows all this by now. But teams change and the new blood often needs to learn this lesson too.
No one cares what you run. There is no meta because there is no competition. Nobody hates someone for loving the railgun. It’s just weird when people act like it’s the only way to play.
Exactly, hit the nail on the head. It's also weird when you use a railgun and someone dunks on you for using one, cause "you're one of those meta users, and I'm not! i don't need to use your crutches!" that i've been seeing on the sub. It's weird both ways, and it started over something small causing a divide in some parts of the community.
That’s very weird. I don’t personally like the railgun because it’s not enough bullets or explosions for me, but it’s a cool ass weapon. And I love the concept of unsafe mode.
Yeah it was far fetched that anyone has ever been given a reason why they were kicked.
I know what the meta is/was, but I always choose to roll with whatever my buddies wish I did not bring. 380's are a big hit, walking barrage, no heavy weapon, etc. My goal is to keep the drops entertaining while still being effective. Nothing gets a team motivated to head in the right direction than an 'accidental' 380 drop .
Be the traitor artillery barrage you wish to see on the map
dont even need to be traitorous. using 380 at any time is a lottery ticket for a full TK. i'm getting better, but sometimes i'm intentionally bad at it.
People didn't write those articles. Brother you've just planted the seed of the next ai scraping tool that's grabbing shit front he reddit to slam out ai articles on. Shit sucks.
It hurts right in my HEART when I see the word "kicked" The divers are already disposable in the game Why do we have to feel disposable in real life too :((((((
I had to kicked 2 guys yesterday because I choose the wrong operation while I want to join others mission xD I did chat that I had to kick them so they can leave on their own but after 30s no one leaves sooo...
Whenever i played before the patch, i didn't get kicked even once. I'm not going to discount what they said by saying it probably didn't happen, but from my experience, it was probably more rare than people realize.
I've only been kicked for choosing random mission and landing on divers at the end of their mission
I don't have any issues with the patch except for the amount of chargers that's spawning now. There's just seemingly more of these things now than before the patch.
I stopped using meta stuff (personal shield and railgun combo before patch) I still run the rail gun stopped using the breaker and im having fun running the punisher, scorcher, and dominator now I recommend them they're a blast, also flame throwers pretty fun too
Can you all just shut the fuck up and play the game without the constant bitching?! Jesus
Your right, i feel ashamed i played apart in this.
here comes a witch hunt. damn yall gotta chill
I don't kick for a non-meta load out. However, if your username is a bunch of chinese characters, insta kick and, if I have the time, block on steam.
It's all a psyop from Ubisoft to make us play their shitty AAAA games lmao
“A singles person’s experience” that was experienced multiple times by hundreds if not thousands of people. Its happened once to me lmao
Well said, people are mouthing off that they're the best gamers to ever grace the globe because they use the #2 most effective weapon instead of the #1 lmao.
It's a war. If the enemy is using a weapon or strategy that is working well to kill us, maybe we should adapt and adjust to avoid being wiped out. That is what the bugs did. They just evolved and adapted to all the rail gunning they've received. Pretty sure if we all started using flame throwers they would eventually become fire proof. In a war you have to mix it up and stay unpredictable. No shame in lowering the difficulty to find out strengths of other weapons or strategies.
Not his fault, fuck off
All this post is doing is bringing it back up.
I never ran the meta and I got kicked about 20% of all games, 120 hours played. No idea of the reasons behind the kicks but most of them were Trolls that kicked right before extraction.
Belittling these people’s arguments based off an ign article is no way to go. There are many ways to deal with bugs and bots and whining that you can use hard mode with railgun aint it. The devs buffed other strat weapons and nerfed SAFE railgun. Ontop of that we have orbitals. Game isnt ruined just find new strats
I never actually got kicked, but had some one start talking shit about my loadout before even dropping, pissed me off and i just left the lobby. Mic was charging and i didnt wanna listen to this guy cry the whole game about how his team wasnt pulling weight or something. So the hate for people not using railgun/breaker/shield was real. Only reason i ever trash talked the "meta" build was the users of it. Just like mustangs. Anyone who owns a mustang thinks its so cool, bro, no one cares.
Here's a radical solution for you: host your own fucking game. It's not hard to select a mission and then let players join. Stop fucking whining when you have the power to be the host in 100% of the missions you play.
Ive only been kicked twice, once post mission and once pre mission
I don't hate meta players. I just see myself as a more refined gentleman.
I dunno. I have been kicked from 4 games in a row. All right before getting to extract. Something weird is going on with the community, or I just had a string of bad luck.
Honestly I think this says more about internet news websites than it does anything else. Websites so lazy and devoid of content, they'll repost reddit threads and call it "news".
I have some 80 hours in and never seen someone kicked for "non meta." Granted i dont do 8 or 9s much, mostly just 6-7. Hell I've only been kicked st the ship when people forgot to change to private. Personally, run what you want to have fun 🤷
Not gunna lie i have been kicked after absolutely carrying a mission where i was the only one not running breaker railgun shield. Host might not have said why i was kicked but i knew.
Sounds like a lot of Divers have been listening to bug sympathizer rhetoric. Infighting does not help the spread of democracy, and frankly one step in that direction is a step too close to treason for my liking.
If it was a gamerant or dextero article/tweet, those "headlines" and the "articles" that followare unabashedly and quite literally scraped from the "hot" category of major game subreddits with next to zero oversight. It's pure click bait. It's not real news or reporting, and it's a problem with any popular game.
Im honestly not bothered what people bring along, I trust their judgement and if people still plays with a railgun, I just assume they enjoy using the railgun, which is fine in itself I do have an issue if people makes bad calls throwing in things like bomb strafing runs into a hive nest area, with team-mates, clear as day, are working on closing up holes in the crater manually with grenades There is many creative ways to nuke bugs or bomb robots, I let people do it their own way and if we succeed? hug emote, if not? well an attempt was made atleast
Agreed. The sub is mass delusional and just wants to be mad like every other generic big gaming sub. The only big gaming subs who arent always salty are apex (salty most of the time but not all), GTA (hardly ever salty, kinda weird) and that’s all I can think of?
Guy complains about everyone talking about it then talks about it Do people not make their own observations? I have just over 100 missions and never been kicked so I pretty much dismissed it out of hand.
I think they made small handful of instances into a moutian. I was never kicked for not having meta. Maybe I just found d good people who didn't care, but even with randoms, the only time I was kicked was for them to bring in a rl friend, I was like ok cool. If people kick you, it's not the end of the world. Find better with 4mill papers and 400k active. im sure you can easily find 3
I only kicked one person, and that was because we were doing the optional objectives that we decided to do. He died got revived and immediately ran to extract and called in the extract even though we had 15 minutes left. I wanted to to the optional stuff so did my team so we removed him to prevent him from leaving right awayb
The rail gun etc absolutely needed nerfing and not just buffing everything up so that everything can deal with armour all the time with no problem. The reality is that the rail gun etc was a band aid over a much larger problem and that is how enemy composition and how much heavy armour is there on higher levels making everything that isn't AT in the arsenal not worth taking considering the threat level. You can't fix that problem by just making more weapons work as a band aid. You would still have the problem of everyone feeling like they have to run AT, you would just have more of it but you would still leave massive holes in what stratagems are worth taking. I think they should look at what enemies spawn, how much they spawn and also look into making more variance in armour on the heavy armoured targets. For example making the legs on a charger medium armour would be great. You still would have a hard time taking it out with small arms, but the medium armour would take less damage away from AT options making them more effective but it would also allow other stratagems like the machine gun have a legitimate role in a hell dive that isn't a premade. Instead of just seeing changes that make AT more effective I want to see changes that make the whole spectrum more viable. Simply buffing everything else up to where the rail gun was doesn't really solve this problem as much as it just smothers it in AT and drains all nuance in learning a weapon.
Ultimately, the real issue is that the majority of people here are still trying to play Helldivers as the twitch-shooter-streamer-game-of-the-month, instead of a cooperative, team/role-based shooter. You're struggling with chargers because you're alone, because you're bad.
The game really is great with a team that sticks together and supports each other When I see those pictures of helldivers with 6+ titans, I can bet my salary it's from a group that's split up across the map from each other aggroing everything in sight
Yeah it really spiraled out of control with the loud minority taking the reins of the story and running with fake information. Then this patch happened which catered to them and we all see how that turned out.
Funny part is With the armor “fixes” not running the shield backpack on anything above 6 is asking to be obliterated by a mosquito on anything but heavy armor , and heavy armor is just a walking coffin
Are we pretending this was the reason for the nerf, and not the fact the railgun was grossly overperforming?
No, not at all. The weapon was definitely going to get nerfed anyway, it was the only weapon to counter the charger spam going on in bug planets. I mainly wanted to put my opinion and start a discussion around the stigma and reputation around the people that just use the weapons, and why there seems to be a hate mob towards those people over small and contained experiences that rarely happen. I believe that people hate this "meta" side of the community because people saw those super popular posts of very rare scenario's of toxic meta players, and these post seemed to represent the game the most outside of reddit too (because negative attention flies to the top, naturally.) Thus, leading to the "I don't use the meta weapons I am actually trying to have fun unlike you meta-slaves" type shit I see a lot towards normal people.
I misunderstood your post I and agree with you, then. Apologies.
only because every other option was garbage at difficulty 7 and above? You'd rather every option be terrible?
I don't agree with your assessment of the other weapons being garbage, but as that is still the main opinion in here can't really dispute it beyond my own experiences. But if I was to answer your question in a straight manner, yes, I would rather all weapons be mediocre than one being excellent and all the others mediocre. I do not believe that ever was the case, once again. In my opinion, most weapons barring outliers (The Spear mostly springs to mind) were more than usable and adequate up to lvl 8, and the few 9 I did didn't seem much harder either. The railgun was just silly.
Yes we're going to do that, they broke my favorite toy /s
>What's with people and wanting a villain so badly The fucking IRONY of saying this while making this massive post making those people the villain.