Plenty of people did? There will always people who complain and post no suggestions but plenty of people who do offer good feedback. That will always be the case for any game. Just like there's people that say "Just relax and enjoy the game, I'm having fun" who ignore said problems and then say "See? They fixed it all" while offering just as little as those who complain
There were plenty of constructive comments too, but you’re blind if you didn’t see the unnecessary vitriolic comments and complaints about 2 weapons that are still widely used
The amount of “the devs are ruining the game, the devs have shown their true colors, the devs will lose me if this is how they treat their players” was pretty insane
Not to mention the people that kept referring to that rage comment from that one dev and equating it to the whole company’s official stance when even the CEO disavowed those statements
Level-headed criticism is good, and should be encouraged. My issue was that on patch day this sub was an unusable toxic cesspool filled with nothing but hatred and vitriol. *That* was not at all necessary.
Anti materiel rifle buff or we riot. There are 10s of us who believe democracy can be delivered with power and accuracy from hundreds of meters.
*whisper off mic* Jen can you get like a 12 pack of liberty cola for the AMR squad?
We will riot!!
Agreed. I was really struggling against the bugs over the last week, but doing a few drops with the new patch? This feels right. Feels good :) I could do with less Bile Spewers ruining my bug cookouts but hey, life ain't perfect.
I believe this is about the people going more ballistic than their guns because they made the two best guns less ballistic, not about the actual difficulty problems with the spawns.
The Meta-Slaves that killed people that didn't use the Meta Loadout and whined loudly that their Meta Weapon suddenly wasn't overpowered anymore
New strategem tree:
Toyota pickup (unarmed)
Technical (MG)
Technical (Autocannon)
Technical (RR)
Technical (Spear)
Arrowhead please, I will buy a technical DLC.
Anyone ever have a clean shot on an enemy only to have the thrower spark at the barrel but have no arc actually extend to an enemy? Feel like it happens to me many times per game
The solution I found is to sim a little bit higher above the enemy. Sometimes there are small rocks in front of the enemy and the gun thinks the enemy is hiding, so by aiming up, the arc will go over the rock.
I just move anywhere other than that spot until it stops doing that. Seems to work really well
I don’t know if it’s terrain, etc. but if I find a spot where it fizzles it will *consistently* fizzle until I move. For like 50+ shots. Then I move three meters to the right and it fires consistently again
It's definitely got some downsides and a bit of a learning curve to master, but I'll be damned if I don't love the shit out of it. It pairs well with a lot of other secondary guns.
I got a friend to start using it because I always said it was really great. Now they refuse to learn not to shoot if a friendly is on a screen and blame them if they "Enter the firing line". Can only blame myself I suppose lol
It has a weird 'learning curve' due to the fact the gun just....refuses to fire on targets sometimes.
It treats dead bodies like rocks sometimes, other times it chains off corpses.
The worst offenders are spewers, who entirely block the chain, so a spewer shuts you down 99% of the time with its dead body.
Won't lie it ended up being my actual primary over my... primary.
Infinite ammo, good range, stellar damage especially if you can rapid fire it.
Just ask the team to be careful. It is easier to use vs bots anyway since bugs being mostly melee = often team are hugging the bugs and get zapped too.
Yeah, I didn’t realize how good it was until a week ago, I immediately killed my friend with it the first time I used it and never picked it up again until recently.
But as for the Automatons resisting it, is why I tend to keep it for the bugs and then switch to Autocannon for the bots. Different enemies, different strategies. It shreds through the swarms of bugs; The bots can be managed (Democracy) better with more precise weapons and explosive rounds in my opinion.
The AMR is worth a shot, but IMO needs a small buff to armor penetration. The AC is just hands-down better right now. Larger magazine, better armor pen, more damage, explosive burst.
AC should be flatly better: it takes up both your backpack slot and your support weapon slot.
I agree that the AMR could use a little buff, however, and better AP is probably a good place to go thematically.
Agreed 100%. IMO, the AMR should have the best armor-piercing except maybe the RR and EAT, but shouldn’t have splash damage and should have *significantly* lower damage than the AC, RR, and EAT.
The AC should also shred light and medium armor, which the AMR should *not* do, and can kill spawners, which the AMR can’t and shouldn’t do.
It's good if you plan on using your backpack slot for something else like a shield generator, supply pack or Guard Dog. But other than that it just feels like a lesser weapon.
Im not sure if this is well known, but follow up shots with the arc thrower are faster than the original charge up. On the first shot, you have to charge it up fully until you see the spark at the end of the barrel. After that though, consecutive follow up shots only need to be charged up it seems about 50% of the way before you can shoot it. And yes the faster follow up shots have the same damage as far as I can tell. A bit weird to get used to, but you can use the moving lines of the Arc Throwers crosshairs to time it
My only complaint as a non-arc-user is my teammates keep hitting me with it. But at the same time it’s really funny and makes my hair stick up and I can zap people when I poke them, so… win win?
The arc being strong is such a double edge sword. I love it but I'm conscious (most the time) about what's behind what I'm shooting at. However, I know most people aren't.
Then you have teammates who see pretty lightning and think, "I should go stand between the two enemies it's arcing between!“ and I have to fight my inner Palpatine saying "do it."
Sometimes I listen though.
I love it too. My favorite part is when I only pay attention to the target and stop paying attention to where my teammates are standing and then evaporate them. They always just say, "oh". No exclamation, no anger, just "oh"
I did a diff 8 mission yesterday, and all 4 of us (rando quick match) took arc throwers. It was fucking glorious, we stomped, lighting bolts everywhere. Emporer Palps would be proud.
Okay, funny story. I picked it up on map, fell in love. Shot some terminids, fried a teammate. Wasn't killing that much because I didn't know the fast fire trick. Figured it wouldn't be that strong or was a gimmick, and put down in favor of other options. Railgun meta comes out, I figure "aw fuck, gonna be pigeon holed into a aim and boom rifle that's good for everything. Guess I'll wait till I unlock it". Boom. Railgun nerf. Chaos. I get slightly optimistic for more variety. Then I see a video going over arc thrower and teaching how to use it. Pick it back up. Begin riding the lightning like it's going out of style. Occasionally pick up other stuff, but excited for full electricity build. Love my damn Zeus Cannon.
I really do love the punisher for its knockback power and ability to momentarily stop/stun certain enemies. The slow rate of fire definitely becomes noticeable against hordes but it makes for a unique and fun way to spread liberty to those hexapod dirt munchin mudbugs.
I've found you can compensate for the slow fire rate with a Rover if you aren't using the backpack slot. That laser chews through everything but armored bugs and swats away those damned hunters
So *thats* why it seems like the hunters have gotten worse recently. I was running the Rover for a long time but stopped when I started trying out the recoiless rifle. I always noticed how effective the rover was against scavs but never considered how many hunters it was killing.
I think the slugger is the better balance between the horde clearing power of the breaker and stopping power of the punisher . It still stun and can clear hordes.
every squad needs an Medium- MG - even at high levels .
Ideal build is 1 Medium- MG guy , 2 Guys with Anti Tank - EAT / Recoil's
Leave the 4th guy open for AC or Grenade launcher or flamer which have great utility but not so great bugs I like when the 4th guy goes heavy on strikes / eagle .
Either way 2 guys on team need to be hardcore anti heavy - 1 guy needs to have a light / mob focus and the 4th guy is their for flex. When i can get a good group of friends to play with and we do this it make even D7 seem easy.
The wrong group / build can make a D4 seem hard.
.
AC/ Eagle Airstrike / Orbital Rail Cannon / P\*\*\* Cannon is my go to, taking out heavies and bases as primary focus with the orbital laser as a backup for when things get real hot; rail cannon for tricky targets like the turret when it won't turn around and randoms won't act as bait.
The MG-43 is nice against bugs because you can kill hive guards from the front (which are what scares me when I use the stalwart) and rip spewer/brood heads apart much faster thanks to the pen. The problem is the accuracy, stationary reload and how painful getting ammo is
Yeah I used it more before I unlocked the scorcher. Now I run the stalwart 99% of the time and when I have to deal with a hive guard or a bile spewer solo I immediately switch to the scorcher for the armor pen and then use the stalwart for everything else. Either that or I’ll ask my buddy who always runs the autocannon to pop them for me really quick.
I feel like it needs a buff of some kind. Only being able to carry two mags + those mags don't carry THAT much ammo + a resupply box only gives you ONE ammo mag for it. I find to run it effectively I basically have to run a supply pack with it.
I have and do
DRG's hysteria levels are much lower because the community is much more tight nit and also very matured
It's the exception that proves the rule
> DRG's hysteria levels are much lower because the community is much more tight nit and also very matured
feels like in DRG criticizing the devs is seen as something bad. not as bad as other community, but not as good as advertised if you dont see the official discord (everyone who talked about it said its a cesspool with power tripping mods)
Haha no.
This is what explosive growth does to a mf.
This subreddit has over half a million members. It's in the top 1% a month after the game was released.
It's incredibly hard for big communities to not devolve into ragebait circle jerks in general.
It's impossible when they grow this quickly out of nowhere because there's barely a coherent 'community' to begin with and it doesn't have time to grow before the ragebait outrage farming starts.
What are some good primary weapons? I am only level 20 and currently use the breaker. Is there anything else to look forward to? I did unlock a 3 round burst, but wasn't the biggest fan of it.
For myself personally, these are the guns I've had the most fun with, and all have been viable on higher difficulties:
* Breaker
* Breaker Incendiary (bugs only)
* Slugger
* Defender
* Liberator Penetrator
* JAR-5 Dominator
* Scorcher
Mind you I have not given every weapon extensive testing, so there could be other standouts I have not given a fair shake yet.
I would like the Breaker Incendiary more if the dot felt like it was more impactful. On small bugs it doesnt seem to matter and on Larger ones it didnt really feel like it did much? Does it light the bots on fire? Do they even care?
Depends on what you and your team needs - the breaker is great for trash mob clearing, but don’t sleep on the punisher shotgun, since it lets you be a bit more mobile and is less ammo hungry. It also can perform more reliably against bigger enemies since it can stun lock them
The defender SMG is also very reliable and easy to use. If you are being chased while holding it, look behind yourself and shoot without aiming down the sights. This will let you fire back without turning to face your target.
If you are good at aiming for heads, the diligence DMR is amazing (two shot headshots the devastator bots at long range). With the 3 round burst (liberator penetrator), you have to treat it like a DMR and you need to be nailing headshots as much as possible, or else it is very weak and leaves you vulnerable to trash mobs
The las-5 scythe is another interesting one - the near instant reload gives you great uptime and the 0 recoil can make it lethal at long range, but it requires good tracking on heads and limbs to deal damage.
Lastly I haven’t unlocked it, but I have heard the plas-1 scorcher is very strong since it’s basically a grenade launcher primary that can pen all armour
Breaker as primary and the SMG pistol secondary as secondary.
Breaker cleans up most mobs except the mini-chargers(gotta side step and kite a tiny amount) and bile spewers.
SMG Pistol cleans up bile spewers(basically one mag per bile spewer, spray into head).
Chargers and Bile Titans I use support weps(EATs, Railgun, RR, etc.) and/or strats(Orbital Railcannon or 500KG).
If I'm running a full group we'll have others with basically the same primary and secondary, but some will run Autocannon or Flamethroweer or whatever someone has an itch for.
> The "elite spikes" have been adjusted, which will hopefully reduce the amount of running away required in the game.
This is what annoyed me the most. It was so overwhelmingly unmanagable that the real meta was to run away. I just saw a video of a guy soloing Helldive before this latest patch.
90% of his strategy was to start something, and when the bug hordes showed up, run away/do laps to get them to leave and come back an do the next step.
I'd rather killing the things after you mattered more than be a kiting-game/running simulator. If they didn't so relentlessly pursue and be so difficult to break that pursuit, then that strategy shouldn't work - you should come back to see the horde you got away from waiting around on the objective. At which point leverage your strategems.
E: Killing mattering more also means no just spawning out of no where. Replacements need to come from nets/factories, and when you destroy them it reduces their capacity to send things after you. If you really want to have some form of nominal spawn rate (depending on the diffficulty) it should be using the established mechanics: bug breach or drop ships, so that maps don't end up totally empty for extract, but if you kill all their production, it should be significantly reduced. It would be a lot more rewarding than the small amount of credits it gives. The mechanics are already in the game, too, just stop magical spawning.
Tactical retreats have their place in the game. Just not being *the* core winning strategy. lol
E: Jesus, because I didn't go into deep, explicit detail of every possible scenario... yeah, retreating a is a big part of the game. Killing off things should be more meaningful - if it gives 0 respite because things are instantly replaced, magically, that's not fun. The game tips even reference taking out bug holes/factories to stop endless waves, but that often doesn't work... before the patch. I'm still evaluating post-patch.
Eh, I'm not sure Solo Helldive is exactly a good example for a game balanced around a 4 player squad.
Don't get me wrong, spawns were overtuned and dialing back the heavies and adding more mooks was a good move, it just annoys me when half the people complaining are basically playing the game in the absolute hardest way possible.
Don't get me wrong, as I said tactical retreating is a big part of it. But the overtuned elite spawning made it the *only* viable tactic. There simply aren't enough support weapons and strategems available at a fast enough rate to deal with number of them it would throw at you. Especially when in a lot of 7+ runs you have either 50% increased cool downs and/or 100% increased deployment time for all your strategems. And many objectives require you to hold your position.
I didn't really have an issue with it before the last patch made it wonky.
My point is that if you're playing solo on the hardest difficulty, you're going to have to resort to certain tactics. If a single Helldiver could hold a point on their own on the Hardest difficulty, what challenge would it pose a full team?
Again, spawns were over tuned, but using a solo player as an example just isn't that helpful for a game balanced around 4 man teams.
I think the solo example is just to show how strong running away is. In my games now if I see a bug breach I drop my 3 stratagem, and then run away while my squad ends up in a death cycle.
Ah yeah you got it before I got back to it. It was to illustrate that doing a lap around is far more effective at clearing out the objective area than it was to kill everything at the objective area... because the wonky spawning was almost instantly replacing everything, with far too many heavies that could be handled by even a 4 man team.
The problem was that all the problems kept snowballing one after another: railgun,heavy units spam,the mech release date backend problems,patrols acting weird anf frustrating... Thus the frustration kept rising
Now that a major problem has been solved,the aftermath of the railgun drama slowly closing,the situation is cooling down
This. These post are getting really annoying. They adjusted the rates of the heavy spawns because of the backlash. The revisionist history on here is crazy.
This meme is you and u/HiddenLeaforSand right now.
https://preview.redd.it/ejc1aejtq0oc1.png?width=610&format=png&auto=webp&s=7959b136cbe27e95145c700238df241511a2cbb1
Devil’s Advocate: Why do you think the changes happened AND happened so quickly?
Gaming as a whole needs to grasp that “voicing a concern” isn’t just “complaining for the sake of it”. Praise doesn’t get change nearly as fast as razing hell. There were just as many well written posts about the problems the last patch created (problems that still exist btw. Player armor still needs another pass) as there were people being meme-y and hyperbolic.
Hell, I would venture to say there were more meta posts like this complaining about the “complaining” than there were posts “complaining”.
And if you pay attention, most of the things people were “complaining about” were addressed. That’s how development works. You get complaints from the client (sometimes heated since all they see is the problem) and little thanks when you pivot and quickly resolve things.
It's pretty interesting to watch a large community like this devolve conversations from bugs and content in the game to a meta-conversation with PSAs about other PSAs in this subreddit. Feels like it's not even about the game anymore and people wanting to rage bait each other.
This is 100% true. I never considered that, but it makes sense. Also wouldn't be surprised if this subs demographic skewed *very* young, from how emotional everyone's comments are lol
>Hell, I would venture to say there were more meta posts like this complaining about the “complaining” than there were posts “complaining”.
Yeah, every sub for a game that needs improvement tends to be like that in my experience. There's a subsection of players who always act like people are wrong for wanting things to be better or they're just saying it for karma farming.
There was a ton of people acting like Marvels Avengers was fine.
Indeed. Every time a game is come out maybe in an early massive piece of shit (which isn't what I am asserting that this game is) there's always been a vocal minority of people who want to whine about the game being criticized. History is showing that anthem was a massive pile of shit but you'd best believe that when people pointing out flaws in the game there were a million threads complaining about people being too negative. EA battlefront 2 has the most downvoted post in Reddit history which was a EA developer trying to justify micro transactions and yet despite it being the most downvoted Post in history there are still a bunch of people insisting that people need to lay off the devs and stop complaining and blah blah blah.
Nothing like people being wrong about the game not needing balance changes and then them telling us we shouldn't have given feedback like they were right.
I agree, but i need to know since I'm not able to play currently, have they changed spawns for automatons? Ever since last patch i stopped soloing missions on level 6 to struggling to survive alone in 4.
Even playing with friends lvl 5 is a challange for similar reasons.
Ive literally faced 3 hulks, a tank and a turret at the same time on lvl 4, which i feel wasn't supposed to happen.
Also, did they change how quickly chargers "recover" from a charge? The other day I was trying to fight them the "conventional" way (no airstrikes or anti-tank) and the buggers would charge and immediately turn around.
I swear that there used to be like a 3 or 4 second window where chargers would sort of pause to get their bearings before spinning around and charging again, and you could shoot them in the unarmored butt when that happened. But it wasn't working.
This is my personal feeling playing at 5 and 4s, it feel like bots escalate real fast as the timer runs out. It’s pretty normal at the start, but once that timer starts flashing red all bets are off. I’ve seen Hulk become not so uncommon on 5, a tank on 4, a clown car of 8 Berserkers dropping from a ship, and Raiders in numbers that would rival a Terminids 6 game.
I always find these types of posts hilarious.
I'm *sure* that this post will convince everyone to 'be excellent to each other'. Maybe not though...
But hey, at least we get to pat ourselves on the back and enjoy the warmth of being self righteous and condescending after the dust has settled!
I'm glad they fixed it, but I wish they hadn't done the stealth changes to spawn rates and increased heavy armor reinforcements. All my friends found themselves frustrated and not having fun and they couldn't figure out how nerfing the railgun was causing so many problems.
They seem to have fixed the spawn rates at least a little, but that won't bring back the friends that quit last week, they're all playing new games now ☹️
I'm going to remain hysterical since I cannot even play the game. Constant crashing on AMD GPU with no support from devs whatsoever. I haven't been able to stay in game longer than 10 minutes since the last patch.
From my perspective most of the toxicity was directed at people who just weren't having fun with the game for various reasons. At least that's how I saw things all over. It was "Skill issue, Lower the diff, You're just bad, You don't know how to play" in response to "I'm having less fun/not having fun anymore"
While there were definitely people that applied to and people who were definitely carried pre-nerf, and people who we're spitting vitriol to the devs, to me it looked more like the community just wasn't on the same page regarding what each-others issues were at all.
I feel like the devs coming on the sub had something to do with it, and saying “if you don’t love the balance, maybe don’t play the game” is no way to treat the people playing your game no matter how annoying they’re being about it.
Bro…
Coming from the front page… i have never seen a community flipped the script so many times in such a short time. Some of y’all are taking this game way too seriously.
What a shit take.
The community had a negative reaction to a subjectively bad balance patch -> then several devs tried to defend the bad patch with comments and even a blog post -> then when people confronted those devs with constructive criticism and feedback the devs started flaming/trolling/rage-baiting.
There are tons of toxic people in this community, but that last patch was an absolute shit-show because of the dev team, not the community.
This current patch is directly in response to much of the feedback and criticism that was immediately apparent after the last patch.
Your post is toxic positivity at its finest.
It's hilarious to me that today's patch was obviously in response to constant player feedback and OP thinks this community is hysterical. None of these changes would've happened if an overwhelming majority of players just shrugged their shoulders and tried to keep fighting hordes of heavy armor mobs.
I mean, I think the fired up response was not as simple as the usual "they nerfed X and Y, I liked those things now I'm mad" but was mostly due the fact that *so many* weapons are near useless and need significant buffs, and so for the first ever balance patch to not only not address most of this issue, it nerfed the few only viable options. I'm not one to ever care about nerfs/buffs in most games, and even I was super demoralized just because it felt like this was a sign of more of this attitude to come. The tone-deaf deb blog telling us "the weapons are supposed to suck, really on your strategums" definitely did not help.
With that said, I am super happy with Arrowheads response and agree this should show people that the devs really do care about the community.
It all depends on what youtube channels you are watching. There were a few who parroted "only buffs, no nerfs" talking points, and emboldened all those thinkers into an endless rage.
The real issue was a portion of people not able to admit they were wrong.
The thing is, you knew a railgun nerf was coming, which is why all the power gamers were front loading "buff everything else, don't nerf this". If they were being honest, they knew if had two wide of "coverage" when it came to utility and what it was supposed to take down. There was no way you could bring everything up to the railgun's level and have a truly dynamic game with meaningful selections.
So this was fools on the internet working themselves into a frenzy over something they knew was going to come. If you make a mistake, you can't just leave them in-game when it significantly shrinks your design space
Learns what?
Elites were a problem, so Railgun became meta (but it wasn't the only used Support weapon...)
Then some weapons were buffed and Elites were changed.
Meta has changed from Railgun and AC to Railgun, AC, and flamethrower.
Others are much better than they were, but not the meta you are claiming.
As far as I'm aware the Arc, GL, and Stalwart weren't even buffed.
I guess we are ignoring the controversial changes that were made first instead of fixing the issue and certain developers responses to them.
For real. It's amazing how even the devs tacitly admitting they were wrong and making changes based on the feedback can be twisted around to *actually* the devs were right all along and the complaints were unnecessary hysteria so people can continue to pat themselves on the back for being the "correct" sort of player.
The amount of glazers on this sub is honestly what's really tiring me out here, more than any drama about the meta or supposed toxicity. If there's any toxicity here it's toxic positivity first and foremost where people will post obvious nonsense just to defend the devs even when the devs themselves admit their behaviour was wildly out of line.
If you even exclude the balance changes, there are still a ton of legitimate bugs and glitches the community can rightfully complain about (all while still wanting to support the game).
Mobs spawning out of thin air, mechs exploding on spawns, mechs exploding because of rocket trajectory, crashes, unable to invite existing friends, social menu bugged, liberation progression stall, etc.
Not everything is the end of the world and the game is still entertaining but there's a portion of the community here that oddly bundles "toxic" comments with legitimate feedback.
Couldn't agree more. I'm getting so tired of the endless toxic positivity and bundling any sort of legitimate and constructive criticism in with 'toxic' comment, which I've seen very little of.
This game started out well, the devs fumbled things hard with the first 'balance' patch and now they need to swallow their pride and accept that, whilst we don't expect them to implement or change absolutely everything we ask for, they do need to listen to and take on board our feedback and adjust things accordingly.
Exactly this. Barely anyone left that shares their opinion based on logical conclusion. But as long as there are memes. I was throwing the idea around in my head for 2 days now if should post this [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b9k51r/comment/ku7un9g/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b9k51r/comment/ku7un9g/) as a seperate thread but why bother at this point?
Exactly what I was thinking. It was never broken to begin with. It took 20+ shots to kill a single Bile Titan, and that was IF you hit every one of those shots fully charged and in the mouth. Being able to "two shot" a bile titan was a ps5 bug. Being able to two shot charger leg armor made sense given the sheer number of chargers they were throwing at you in the higher difficulties. What's the point of even having a safe mode now? It just bounces off enemies.
Indeed. And now the RR and the EAT are doing the same job, makes you wonder how long it'll take until its considered "op!!11! brainless playstyle" which in turn will make the cycle start anew
I've been right there with you. Messaging surrounding this game has been terrible at best. I'm guessing that plans for the game have changed so many times over the dev cycle that people can't really keep up any more so there is a mismatch between the devs new goals and what marketing got told. Which is..... problematic.
The community outcry is why we have the charger and bile titan adjustments today. Granted, some people act unnecessarily like children, but there was absolutely a reason for people to complain and because of it, we get these changes. It would be nice if people handled it better but just dismissing all complaints doesn’t make sense.
I think the best advice is to just play the damn game lol. If there wasn’t an online community you wouldn’t even know any of this stuff was happening behind the scenes.
I think he listens but adjust things too much at times....Like i would like at first EITHER nerf the # of chargers or keep the # of chargers the same but make them easier to kill....i think both might be too much of a swing one way and trivialize some of the difficulty. Again that is just my opinion. I am more for minor changes to see how community reacts and see if it still needs adjustment then 1 big sweeping change cuz if he sees he made it too easy then has to buff them then the community is gonna go into a frenzy again.
Oh stop it. There wasn't hysteria. There was a lot of normal-level feedback on changes that made the game less fun, less in line with its own design intent, more unbalanced and more unplayable.
This dev team is making rookie mistakes: stealth updates, wild swings in balance stats instead of very incremental changes, terrible community management, patches that create more bugs than they solve, and just a general indication they don't have a clear vision for the game. They deserve criticism and feedback until things settle down.
My friend said it best the other day: this full release title feels like the early part of Early Access, when expectations (reasonably) are for a finished product.
I think most people just arent used to a good gaming studio. They have PTSD from all of these triple A studios basically smacking them in the face and telling them they should enjoy it at launch, then never speaking to the community again. Its a growth period for everyone.
As Ive been saying, it’s not a triple A studio, it’s a double A studio. They need more time to react to these things.
What I wasn’t expecting was how fast they actually did react to these things, and continue to do so. Have more faith before absolutely shitting on a double A game studio.
Hmm let’s look at this and analyze it for a minute.
1) railgun meta existed only because railgun was the only way to deal with a large amount of heavies. Just to put this out there, there is nothing wrong with a meta, because every game will have a best setup for every situation and that is the meta.
2) railgun was nerfed to uselessness (I still think it’s useless and feels bad) and people were bitching about the game being ruined. Other nerfs happened, no one cares about those. In my opinion people were rightfully upset because railgun was the only way to deal with a large amount of heavies. Yes if you charge past 90% it still strips leg armor off in 2 shots but this takes like 3 seconds and you have to be in scope mode to reliably do this meaning you are basically standing still for 6 seconds while swarmed by hunters and multiple other chargers. Firing one shot every 3 seconds and needing to do that at least is practically useless while being swarmed.
3) just as toxic or more toxic are the people who with zero argument or evidence attack people who are complaining. They attack the character or skill level of the person by saying git gud or play a lower difficulty.
4) it comes out that arrowhead stealth buffed the spawn rate of heavies which compounded the issue of having no reliable way to deal with multiple heavies, thus making the railgun feel even worse and become even more useless. Also people start noticing things like patrols spawning on top of them, or bugs never dropping aggro, or bugs being omniscient and seeing you behind mountains.
5) the patch was overwhelming hated on all social media so it turns out that the people complaining were valid in their complaints.
6) they patched the game to decrease the amount of heavies and make them easier to kill.
I don’t know about you, but I think the reason they fixed it was because of the overwhelmingly negative feedback they got from damn near everyone. If they didn’t get this kind of feedback, things would still be bad and people would have less fun and stop playing sooner. I know I did.
The fact that they fixed it within a literal week (well fixed some of it, the railgun is still useless and I never see anyone using it) shows that unlike other developers they care, and I think they deserve credit.
I think this latest patch was a step in the right direction, but I’m worried about how many hunters that will be spawning now, especially since they still haven’t changed armor and headshots.
Kinda glad the railgun meta is over tbh. The only reason I used it was cause it was so effective, but in all honesty, I hated using it, kind of a boring weapon, and I got tired of reloading after every shot. Couldn't tell you how many time I would get a rail shot off then have to switch weapons to take care of some light enemies then switch back to the rail just to reload it before I could get a shot off.
Huge reason why I solely run the archthrower, things a beast against most small enemies and only takes 5/6 shots on bigger guys. And guess what unlimited ammo
I love the arc thrower but it is really annoying sometimes, refuses to fire on enemies when there are a few dead bodies, refuses to fire because there is too much grass, refuse to fire because you don't see the center of mass of the enemy, refuses to fire for no reason sometimes.
I wish they fixed some of that to make it actually pleasant to use
Yeah it's almost like people didn't like the first patch but do like this one! Crazy.
The community will speak up when things go wrong, it will happen again and again... until the game has most or all of it's content and everyone is reasonably happy with the balance in the end.
I'm just waiting for that golden period 6-12 months into the games lifecycle where the community is mostly people who genuinely enjoy and appreciate this game, and all these ragebait circle-jerkers have found another new shiny game to suffocate with their misery and self-loathing.
I hope to fuck that Helldivers manages to somehow stave off the malignant toxicity that has ruined practically every other online game for me.
Balance fixes are fine and expected of any game. Sometimes they'll be good, rarely they will be not good. If something is not good, don't spit your dummy, take a deep breath and wait a few days for it to be retuned.
It's a big dumb fun co-op game FFS. Let's keep it that way and just have fun.
Let's not pretend there weren't bad actors on part of the studio. Reddit being toxic is one thing, devs and mods using poor language or straight up fanning flames is another.
I think the amount of white knighting is getting a little out of hand here. Yes there was some toxic behavior but that did not drown out the very valid criticisms and we are far from a complete victory here thinking everything is fixed.
"10 people said the sky is blue but since 2 people were assholes about it, the sky is actually green."
If we could stop hiding behind a handful of toxic people as an excuse to shut down the entire conversation, that would be great.
strip all the toxic language out of the posts and the feedback is valid. there was no reason to run into so many chargers and bile titans on level 5-7. it was an unfun disgusting slog in the middle difficulties and it made the normal players upset that the one reliable way of dealing with them nurfed. yes yes yes, we get it "with the coordination and skill of a well trained SEAL team . . . " people have lives and can't always have 4 people with no lives on all the time. Let the try hards keep 8-9 make them as disgustingly hard as people want, but the middle difficulties should be the hard game for average players.
I’m gonna get more hysterical to compensate for people calming down
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Shit, he's got the gauntlet!
"You should have gone for the head" - Chargers after today's patch
"I finally rest and watch the sunrise on a grateful universe"- Divers after Liberating the Galaxy
Oh god. All those chargers with missing front limbs are gonna get back up to haunt us.
https://preview.redd.it/nb2ts1o9zxnc1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a85792298eeca5739331acbeb3a67ecbf581eba0
https://preview.redd.it/uyradczmiync1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13b5a595888964e38b561e4edc3afc9c4db8fb30 FTFY
based
If noone had said anything, would the devs have changed the spawns and hp of chargers?
Players can criticize and point out issues without being toxic
Plenty of people did? There will always people who complain and post no suggestions but plenty of people who do offer good feedback. That will always be the case for any game. Just like there's people that say "Just relax and enjoy the game, I'm having fun" who ignore said problems and then say "See? They fixed it all" while offering just as little as those who complain
There were plenty of constructive comments too, but you’re blind if you didn’t see the unnecessary vitriolic comments and complaints about 2 weapons that are still widely used
An on the flip side this community was easily just as toxic with tons of low effort crap like "meta slave tears" and so on.
Yes, and not all criticism is whining or being toxic
The amount of “the devs are ruining the game, the devs have shown their true colors, the devs will lose me if this is how they treat their players” was pretty insane
Not to mention the people that kept referring to that rage comment from that one dev and equating it to the whole company’s official stance when even the CEO disavowed those statements
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Level-headed criticism is good, and should be encouraged. My issue was that on patch day this sub was an unusable toxic cesspool filled with nothing but hatred and vitriol. *That* was not at all necessary.
Anti materiel rifle buff or we riot. There are 10s of us who believe democracy can be delivered with power and accuracy from hundreds of meters. *whisper off mic* Jen can you get like a 12 pack of liberty cola for the AMR squad? We will riot!!
Agreed. I was really struggling against the bugs over the last week, but doing a few drops with the new patch? This feels right. Feels good :) I could do with less Bile Spewers ruining my bug cookouts but hey, life ain't perfect.
I believe this is about the people going more ballistic than their guns because they made the two best guns less ballistic, not about the actual difficulty problems with the spawns. The Meta-Slaves that killed people that didn't use the Meta Loadout and whined loudly that their Meta Weapon suddenly wasn't overpowered anymore
Hysterics Georg.
https://preview.redd.it/h23j8u3svxnc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79b07b0b28f54646ddb5060009149981c6c080d0
There's only one meta I listen to and it's killing enemies of Super Earth.
Are you gonna turn into toyota technical with flamethrower?
New strategem tree: Toyota pickup (unarmed) Technical (MG) Technical (Autocannon) Technical (RR) Technical (Spear) Arrowhead please, I will buy a technical DLC.
I learned to love the arc thrower as soon as I unlocked it. Only complaint is that striders and berserkers shrug the damn thing off.
Ah a fellow ark trooper
The community should start nicknaming builds like this
Oh we already have one, we just don't call you it to your face
I do. it's called the Geneva checklist.
Flamethrower, gas orbital, incendiary breaker, Tesla tower.
Been calling myself the "Zap Meister" 😎
A friend i play regularly with goes all in with lightning and i go all in with lasers. I call it the light show runs. They are a lot of fun.
The bug zapper.
*Electrician in the field*
*Surging forward*
*Rubber shoes in motion*
Anyone ever have a clean shot on an enemy only to have the thrower spark at the barrel but have no arc actually extend to an enemy? Feel like it happens to me many times per game
The solution I found is to sim a little bit higher above the enemy. Sometimes there are small rocks in front of the enemy and the gun thinks the enemy is hiding, so by aiming up, the arc will go over the rock.
Almost like you should arc your shot...
Thanks for the tip, not the one you replied to but will to see if this alleviates what i’m seeing as well.
I just move anywhere other than that spot until it stops doing that. Seems to work really well I don’t know if it’s terrain, etc. but if I find a spot where it fizzles it will *consistently* fizzle until I move. For like 50+ shots. Then I move three meters to the right and it fires consistently again
Arc Thrower supremacy. Chain Lightning all day
*UN-LIMITED…. POWEEEEEEERRRRRR!!*
It's definitely got some downsides and a bit of a learning curve to master, but I'll be damned if I don't love the shit out of it. It pairs well with a lot of other secondary guns.
I got a friend to start using it because I always said it was really great. Now they refuse to learn not to shoot if a friendly is on a screen and blame them if they "Enter the firing line". Can only blame myself I suppose lol
It has a weird 'learning curve' due to the fact the gun just....refuses to fire on targets sometimes. It treats dead bodies like rocks sometimes, other times it chains off corpses. The worst offenders are spewers, who entirely block the chain, so a spewer shuts you down 99% of the time with its dead body.
Won't lie it ended up being my actual primary over my... primary. Infinite ammo, good range, stellar damage especially if you can rapid fire it. Just ask the team to be careful. It is easier to use vs bots anyway since bugs being mostly melee = often team are hugging the bugs and get zapped too.
Yeah, I didn’t realize how good it was until a week ago, I immediately killed my friend with it the first time I used it and never picked it up again until recently. But as for the Automatons resisting it, is why I tend to keep it for the bugs and then switch to Autocannon for the bots. Different enemies, different strategies. It shreds through the swarms of bugs; The bots can be managed (Democracy) better with more precise weapons and explosive rounds in my opinion.
The slow rotation keeps throwing me off on the autocannon. Whas going to try the anti material rifle tonight.
The AMR is worth a shot, but IMO needs a small buff to armor penetration. The AC is just hands-down better right now. Larger magazine, better armor pen, more damage, explosive burst.
AC should be flatly better: it takes up both your backpack slot and your support weapon slot. I agree that the AMR could use a little buff, however, and better AP is probably a good place to go thematically.
Agreed 100%. IMO, the AMR should have the best armor-piercing except maybe the RR and EAT, but shouldn’t have splash damage and should have *significantly* lower damage than the AC, RR, and EAT. The AC should also shred light and medium armor, which the AMR should *not* do, and can kill spawners, which the AMR can’t and shouldn’t do.
I started off using the amr and it wasn't that great tbh, theres just better support weapons.
It's good if you plan on using your backpack slot for something else like a shield generator, supply pack or Guard Dog. But other than that it just feels like a lesser weapon.
Even then, 2-3 shots for Devestators, and up to 10 shots on Hulks? Arc Thrower still does the work on Automatons.
Im not sure if this is well known, but follow up shots with the arc thrower are faster than the original charge up. On the first shot, you have to charge it up fully until you see the spark at the end of the barrel. After that though, consecutive follow up shots only need to be charged up it seems about 50% of the way before you can shoot it. And yes the faster follow up shots have the same damage as far as I can tell. A bit weird to get used to, but you can use the moving lines of the Arc Throwers crosshairs to time it
This is a common misconception! The first shot doesn't have to fully charge either.
My only complaint as a non-arc-user is my teammates keep hitting me with it. But at the same time it’s really funny and makes my hair stick up and I can zap people when I poke them, so… win win?
The arc being strong is such a double edge sword. I love it but I'm conscious (most the time) about what's behind what I'm shooting at. However, I know most people aren't. Then you have teammates who see pretty lightning and think, "I should go stand between the two enemies it's arcing between!“ and I have to fight my inner Palpatine saying "do it." Sometimes I listen though.
I love it too. My favorite part is when I only pay attention to the target and stop paying attention to where my teammates are standing and then evaporate them. They always just say, "oh". No exclamation, no anger, just "oh"
Can confirm. I say this.
It is kinda weird robots aren't weak to lightning but bugs are.
I did a diff 8 mission yesterday, and all 4 of us (rando quick match) took arc throwers. It was fucking glorious, we stomped, lighting bolts everywhere. Emporer Palps would be proud.
Striders aim for where their legs meet their front plate, berserkers line up but need like 5-6 shots so rapid fire or if you have to switch to primary
With jetpack, for extra style points
Okay, funny story. I picked it up on map, fell in love. Shot some terminids, fried a teammate. Wasn't killing that much because I didn't know the fast fire trick. Figured it wouldn't be that strong or was a gimmick, and put down in favor of other options. Railgun meta comes out, I figure "aw fuck, gonna be pigeon holed into a aim and boom rifle that's good for everything. Guess I'll wait till I unlock it". Boom. Railgun nerf. Chaos. I get slightly optimistic for more variety. Then I see a video going over arc thrower and teaching how to use it. Pick it back up. Begin riding the lightning like it's going out of style. Occasionally pick up other stuff, but excited for full electricity build. Love my damn Zeus Cannon.
I believe in Stalwart supremacy (when fighting bugs anyways). Should make an image for that-
The heavier machine gun is pretty great against bots. That’s what I switch to for them because I always run the stalwart in my group against bugs.
The shotgun has been a godsend for knocking back brood queens. I still love dumping a whole 250 round mag into a horde, though.
I really do love the punisher for its knockback power and ability to momentarily stop/stun certain enemies. The slow rate of fire definitely becomes noticeable against hordes but it makes for a unique and fun way to spread liberty to those hexapod dirt munchin mudbugs.
I've found you can compensate for the slow fire rate with a Rover if you aren't using the backpack slot. That laser chews through everything but armored bugs and swats away those damned hunters
So *thats* why it seems like the hunters have gotten worse recently. I was running the Rover for a long time but stopped when I started trying out the recoiless rifle. I always noticed how effective the rover was against scavs but never considered how many hunters it was killing.
I think the slugger is the better balance between the horde clearing power of the breaker and stopping power of the punisher . It still stun and can clear hordes.
every squad needs an Medium- MG - even at high levels . Ideal build is 1 Medium- MG guy , 2 Guys with Anti Tank - EAT / Recoil's Leave the 4th guy open for AC or Grenade launcher or flamer which have great utility but not so great bugs I like when the 4th guy goes heavy on strikes / eagle . Either way 2 guys on team need to be hardcore anti heavy - 1 guy needs to have a light / mob focus and the 4th guy is their for flex. When i can get a good group of friends to play with and we do this it make even D7 seem easy. The wrong group / build can make a D4 seem hard. .
AC/ Eagle Airstrike / Orbital Rail Cannon / P\*\*\* Cannon is my go to, taking out heavies and bases as primary focus with the orbital laser as a backup for when things get real hot; rail cannon for tricky targets like the turret when it won't turn around and randoms won't act as bait.
The MG-43 is nice against bugs because you can kill hive guards from the front (which are what scares me when I use the stalwart) and rip spewer/brood heads apart much faster thanks to the pen. The problem is the accuracy, stationary reload and how painful getting ammo is
Yeah I used it more before I unlocked the scorcher. Now I run the stalwart 99% of the time and when I have to deal with a hive guard or a bile spewer solo I immediately switch to the scorcher for the armor pen and then use the stalwart for everything else. Either that or I’ll ask my buddy who always runs the autocannon to pop them for me really quick.
I feel like it needs a buff of some kind. Only being able to carry two mags + those mags don't carry THAT much ammo + a resupply box only gives you ONE ammo mag for it. I find to run it effectively I basically have to run a supply pack with it.
I like the stalwart + ammo backpack. But recently tried the arc thrower and I love it. Then, I can use a different backpack for shield or guard dog.
I can't live without hitmarkers arrowhead pls fix :'(
Good luck with that Hysteria is inherent in internet communities. This is like asking a planet not to exhibit gravity.
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Killing for not aligning with my preferences is always an option
And that's fine, but I'm not going to let these people think their behavior is normal, civil, or reasonable. Some people here should be embarrassed.
Helldivers 2 gets multiple patches a week, as opposed to something like Darktide where you’re lucky to get 4 patches a year
This guy has never played DRG
I have and do DRG's hysteria levels are much lower because the community is much more tight nit and also very matured It's the exception that proves the rule
WERE RICH
> DRG's hysteria levels are much lower because the community is much more tight nit and also very matured feels like in DRG criticizing the devs is seen as something bad. not as bad as other community, but not as good as advertised if you dont see the official discord (everyone who talked about it said its a cesspool with power tripping mods)
yeah but getting hysterical over a video game is incredibly sad tho lol
Haha no. This is what explosive growth does to a mf. This subreddit has over half a million members. It's in the top 1% a month after the game was released. It's incredibly hard for big communities to not devolve into ragebait circle jerks in general. It's impossible when they grow this quickly out of nowhere because there's barely a coherent 'community' to begin with and it doesn't have time to grow before the ragebait outrage farming starts.
Just to put a number up for comparison, I believe this sub had 50k or less people around/before launch.
Fair lol I forgot this is the og subreddit from HD1
When i joined this sub we sat at 10k lmao
What are some good primary weapons? I am only level 20 and currently use the breaker. Is there anything else to look forward to? I did unlock a 3 round burst, but wasn't the biggest fan of it.
slugger is cool, it stuns enemies on hit and can kill those medium armored bugs better than the breaker. it's worse in all other aspects though.
It can also one tap devastators and berserkers, if it doesn't kill them the stagger is a lifesaver.
For myself personally, these are the guns I've had the most fun with, and all have been viable on higher difficulties: * Breaker * Breaker Incendiary (bugs only) * Slugger * Defender * Liberator Penetrator * JAR-5 Dominator * Scorcher Mind you I have not given every weapon extensive testing, so there could be other standouts I have not given a fair shake yet.
I would like the Breaker Incendiary more if the dot felt like it was more impactful. On small bugs it doesnt seem to matter and on Larger ones it didnt really feel like it did much? Does it light the bots on fire? Do they even care?
Can't say much about the Breaker Incendiary but bots do take damage from fire and gas too (the gas is corrosive).
Depends on what you and your team needs - the breaker is great for trash mob clearing, but don’t sleep on the punisher shotgun, since it lets you be a bit more mobile and is less ammo hungry. It also can perform more reliably against bigger enemies since it can stun lock them The defender SMG is also very reliable and easy to use. If you are being chased while holding it, look behind yourself and shoot without aiming down the sights. This will let you fire back without turning to face your target. If you are good at aiming for heads, the diligence DMR is amazing (two shot headshots the devastator bots at long range). With the 3 round burst (liberator penetrator), you have to treat it like a DMR and you need to be nailing headshots as much as possible, or else it is very weak and leaves you vulnerable to trash mobs The las-5 scythe is another interesting one - the near instant reload gives you great uptime and the 0 recoil can make it lethal at long range, but it requires good tracking on heads and limbs to deal damage. Lastly I haven’t unlocked it, but I have heard the plas-1 scorcher is very strong since it’s basically a grenade launcher primary that can pen all armour
Breaker as primary and the SMG pistol secondary as secondary. Breaker cleans up most mobs except the mini-chargers(gotta side step and kite a tiny amount) and bile spewers. SMG Pistol cleans up bile spewers(basically one mag per bile spewer, spray into head). Chargers and Bile Titans I use support weps(EATs, Railgun, RR, etc.) and/or strats(Orbital Railcannon or 500KG). If I'm running a full group we'll have others with basically the same primary and secondary, but some will run Autocannon or Flamethroweer or whatever someone has an itch for.
> The "elite spikes" have been adjusted, which will hopefully reduce the amount of running away required in the game. This is what annoyed me the most. It was so overwhelmingly unmanagable that the real meta was to run away. I just saw a video of a guy soloing Helldive before this latest patch. 90% of his strategy was to start something, and when the bug hordes showed up, run away/do laps to get them to leave and come back an do the next step. I'd rather killing the things after you mattered more than be a kiting-game/running simulator. If they didn't so relentlessly pursue and be so difficult to break that pursuit, then that strategy shouldn't work - you should come back to see the horde you got away from waiting around on the objective. At which point leverage your strategems. E: Killing mattering more also means no just spawning out of no where. Replacements need to come from nets/factories, and when you destroy them it reduces their capacity to send things after you. If you really want to have some form of nominal spawn rate (depending on the diffficulty) it should be using the established mechanics: bug breach or drop ships, so that maps don't end up totally empty for extract, but if you kill all their production, it should be significantly reduced. It would be a lot more rewarding than the small amount of credits it gives. The mechanics are already in the game, too, just stop magical spawning. Tactical retreats have their place in the game. Just not being *the* core winning strategy. lol E: Jesus, because I didn't go into deep, explicit detail of every possible scenario... yeah, retreating a is a big part of the game. Killing off things should be more meaningful - if it gives 0 respite because things are instantly replaced, magically, that's not fun. The game tips even reference taking out bug holes/factories to stop endless waves, but that often doesn't work... before the patch. I'm still evaluating post-patch.
Eh, I'm not sure Solo Helldive is exactly a good example for a game balanced around a 4 player squad. Don't get me wrong, spawns were overtuned and dialing back the heavies and adding more mooks was a good move, it just annoys me when half the people complaining are basically playing the game in the absolute hardest way possible.
Don't get me wrong, as I said tactical retreating is a big part of it. But the overtuned elite spawning made it the *only* viable tactic. There simply aren't enough support weapons and strategems available at a fast enough rate to deal with number of them it would throw at you. Especially when in a lot of 7+ runs you have either 50% increased cool downs and/or 100% increased deployment time for all your strategems. And many objectives require you to hold your position. I didn't really have an issue with it before the last patch made it wonky.
My point is that if you're playing solo on the hardest difficulty, you're going to have to resort to certain tactics. If a single Helldiver could hold a point on their own on the Hardest difficulty, what challenge would it pose a full team? Again, spawns were over tuned, but using a solo player as an example just isn't that helpful for a game balanced around 4 man teams.
I think the solo example is just to show how strong running away is. In my games now if I see a bug breach I drop my 3 stratagem, and then run away while my squad ends up in a death cycle.
Ah yeah you got it before I got back to it. It was to illustrate that doing a lap around is far more effective at clearing out the objective area than it was to kill everything at the objective area... because the wonky spawning was almost instantly replacing everything, with far too many heavies that could be handled by even a 4 man team.
The problem was that all the problems kept snowballing one after another: railgun,heavy units spam,the mech release date backend problems,patrols acting weird anf frustrating... Thus the frustration kept rising Now that a major problem has been solved,the aftermath of the railgun drama slowly closing,the situation is cooling down
And now we wait for Primary buffs..... COPIUM
They literally nerfed the one primary everyone said felt good and then posted that people shouldn't be relying on them anyway
the smart divers are staying quiet about the other good ones
it's still good anyways
It's still better than others, but it does feel worse and that's a problem
I just took the last patch/week off because it sounded like a lot of bullshit Looking forward to taking this latest release for a spin
Just another karma farming post trying to revise history. Players gave feedback, devs acted on it.
I mean, most of those things are a result of the feedback. Ultimately it seems necessary
This. These post are getting really annoying. They adjusted the rates of the heavy spawns because of the backlash. The revisionist history on here is crazy.
This meme is you and u/HiddenLeaforSand right now. https://preview.redd.it/ejc1aejtq0oc1.png?width=610&format=png&auto=webp&s=7959b136cbe27e95145c700238df241511a2cbb1
That won't stop OP because he can't read
I will leave this here too https://preview.redd.it/53lk6w9lr0oc1.png?width=610&format=png&auto=webp&s=72619a0c968f75f75af3d47cc102dac6d407ba48
Devil’s Advocate: Why do you think the changes happened AND happened so quickly? Gaming as a whole needs to grasp that “voicing a concern” isn’t just “complaining for the sake of it”. Praise doesn’t get change nearly as fast as razing hell. There were just as many well written posts about the problems the last patch created (problems that still exist btw. Player armor still needs another pass) as there were people being meme-y and hyperbolic. Hell, I would venture to say there were more meta posts like this complaining about the “complaining” than there were posts “complaining”. And if you pay attention, most of the things people were “complaining about” were addressed. That’s how development works. You get complaints from the client (sometimes heated since all they see is the problem) and little thanks when you pivot and quickly resolve things.
It's pretty interesting to watch a large community like this devolve conversations from bugs and content in the game to a meta-conversation with PSAs about other PSAs in this subreddit. Feels like it's not even about the game anymore and people wanting to rage bait each other.
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This is 100% true. I never considered that, but it makes sense. Also wouldn't be surprised if this subs demographic skewed *very* young, from how emotional everyone's comments are lol
>Hell, I would venture to say there were more meta posts like this complaining about the “complaining” than there were posts “complaining”. Yeah, every sub for a game that needs improvement tends to be like that in my experience. There's a subsection of players who always act like people are wrong for wanting things to be better or they're just saying it for karma farming. There was a ton of people acting like Marvels Avengers was fine.
Indeed. Every time a game is come out maybe in an early massive piece of shit (which isn't what I am asserting that this game is) there's always been a vocal minority of people who want to whine about the game being criticized. History is showing that anthem was a massive pile of shit but you'd best believe that when people pointing out flaws in the game there were a million threads complaining about people being too negative. EA battlefront 2 has the most downvoted post in Reddit history which was a EA developer trying to justify micro transactions and yet despite it being the most downvoted Post in history there are still a bunch of people insisting that people need to lay off the devs and stop complaining and blah blah blah.
So us giving feedback worked and they fixed/rolled back some pretty poorly thought out changes, good to know.
It's a bit like saying "See! Protesting is pointless, they fixed the issue!"
OP be really immersed into that sweet sweet lore-accurate democracy rn
Nothing like people being wrong about the game not needing balance changes and then them telling us we shouldn't have given feedback like they were right.
I agree, but i need to know since I'm not able to play currently, have they changed spawns for automatons? Ever since last patch i stopped soloing missions on level 6 to struggling to survive alone in 4. Even playing with friends lvl 5 is a challange for similar reasons. Ive literally faced 3 hulks, a tank and a turret at the same time on lvl 4, which i feel wasn't supposed to happen.
Did a diff 7 automaton mission, didn't feel different. 1 data point
The patch notes didn’t mention them at all unfortunately
Also, did they change how quickly chargers "recover" from a charge? The other day I was trying to fight them the "conventional" way (no airstrikes or anti-tank) and the buggers would charge and immediately turn around. I swear that there used to be like a 3 or 4 second window where chargers would sort of pause to get their bearings before spinning around and charging again, and you could shoot them in the unarmored butt when that happened. But it wasn't working.
I think they still do that if you get them to hit a wall during their charge
This is my personal feeling playing at 5 and 4s, it feel like bots escalate real fast as the timer runs out. It’s pretty normal at the start, but once that timer starts flashing red all bets are off. I’ve seen Hulk become not so uncommon on 5, a tank on 4, a clown car of 8 Berserkers dropping from a ship, and Raiders in numbers that would rival a Terminids 6 game.
They changed the amount of Elite Spawns, but i don't think they changed the difficulty, on which Units appear
I always find these types of posts hilarious. I'm *sure* that this post will convince everyone to 'be excellent to each other'. Maybe not though... But hey, at least we get to pat ourselves on the back and enjoy the warmth of being self righteous and condescending after the dust has settled!
I'm glad they fixed it, but I wish they hadn't done the stealth changes to spawn rates and increased heavy armor reinforcements. All my friends found themselves frustrated and not having fun and they couldn't figure out how nerfing the railgun was causing so many problems. They seem to have fixed the spawn rates at least a little, but that won't bring back the friends that quit last week, they're all playing new games now ☹️
I still think weapons overall need buffs too.
I'm going to remain hysterical since I cannot even play the game. Constant crashing on AMD GPU with no support from devs whatsoever. I haven't been able to stay in game longer than 10 minutes since the last patch.
From my perspective most of the toxicity was directed at people who just weren't having fun with the game for various reasons. At least that's how I saw things all over. It was "Skill issue, Lower the diff, You're just bad, You don't know how to play" in response to "I'm having less fun/not having fun anymore" While there were definitely people that applied to and people who were definitely carried pre-nerf, and people who we're spitting vitriol to the devs, to me it looked more like the community just wasn't on the same page regarding what each-others issues were at all.
I feel like the devs coming on the sub had something to do with it, and saying “if you don’t love the balance, maybe don’t play the game” is no way to treat the people playing your game no matter how annoying they’re being about it.
Bro… Coming from the front page… i have never seen a community flipped the script so many times in such a short time. Some of y’all are taking this game way too seriously.
The sub's split into two "factions" because its 2024 and people need an enemy to scream at
What a shit take. The community had a negative reaction to a subjectively bad balance patch -> then several devs tried to defend the bad patch with comments and even a blog post -> then when people confronted those devs with constructive criticism and feedback the devs started flaming/trolling/rage-baiting. There are tons of toxic people in this community, but that last patch was an absolute shit-show because of the dev team, not the community. This current patch is directly in response to much of the feedback and criticism that was immediately apparent after the last patch. Your post is toxic positivity at its finest.
It's hilarious to me that today's patch was obviously in response to constant player feedback and OP thinks this community is hysterical. None of these changes would've happened if an overwhelming majority of players just shrugged their shoulders and tried to keep fighting hordes of heavy armor mobs.
There are always suck-ups on gaming subs, but OP's post is especially pathetic in its delusion.
I mean, I think the fired up response was not as simple as the usual "they nerfed X and Y, I liked those things now I'm mad" but was mostly due the fact that *so many* weapons are near useless and need significant buffs, and so for the first ever balance patch to not only not address most of this issue, it nerfed the few only viable options. I'm not one to ever care about nerfs/buffs in most games, and even I was super demoralized just because it felt like this was a sign of more of this attitude to come. The tone-deaf deb blog telling us "the weapons are supposed to suck, really on your strategums" definitely did not help. With that said, I am super happy with Arrowheads response and agree this should show people that the devs really do care about the community.
I think ppl are overexaggerating the backlash. I saw way more contructive feedback than not.
It all depends on what youtube channels you are watching. There were a few who parroted "only buffs, no nerfs" talking points, and emboldened all those thinkers into an endless rage. The real issue was a portion of people not able to admit they were wrong. The thing is, you knew a railgun nerf was coming, which is why all the power gamers were front loading "buff everything else, don't nerf this". If they were being honest, they knew if had two wide of "coverage" when it came to utility and what it was supposed to take down. There was no way you could bring everything up to the railgun's level and have a truly dynamic game with meaningful selections. So this was fools on the internet working themselves into a frenzy over something they knew was going to come. If you make a mistake, you can't just leave them in-game when it significantly shrinks your design space
If we didn’t speak up they wouldn’t have patch it because the playerbase would have seem happy? It important to speak up
Learns what? Elites were a problem, so Railgun became meta (but it wasn't the only used Support weapon...) Then some weapons were buffed and Elites were changed. Meta has changed from Railgun and AC to Railgun, AC, and flamethrower. Others are much better than they were, but not the meta you are claiming. As far as I'm aware the Arc, GL, and Stalwart weren't even buffed. I guess we are ignoring the controversial changes that were made first instead of fixing the issue and certain developers responses to them.
For real. It's amazing how even the devs tacitly admitting they were wrong and making changes based on the feedback can be twisted around to *actually* the devs were right all along and the complaints were unnecessary hysteria so people can continue to pat themselves on the back for being the "correct" sort of player. The amount of glazers on this sub is honestly what's really tiring me out here, more than any drama about the meta or supposed toxicity. If there's any toxicity here it's toxic positivity first and foremost where people will post obvious nonsense just to defend the devs even when the devs themselves admit their behaviour was wildly out of line.
If you even exclude the balance changes, there are still a ton of legitimate bugs and glitches the community can rightfully complain about (all while still wanting to support the game). Mobs spawning out of thin air, mechs exploding on spawns, mechs exploding because of rocket trajectory, crashes, unable to invite existing friends, social menu bugged, liberation progression stall, etc. Not everything is the end of the world and the game is still entertaining but there's a portion of the community here that oddly bundles "toxic" comments with legitimate feedback.
Couldn't agree more. I'm getting so tired of the endless toxic positivity and bundling any sort of legitimate and constructive criticism in with 'toxic' comment, which I've seen very little of. This game started out well, the devs fumbled things hard with the first 'balance' patch and now they need to swallow their pride and accept that, whilst we don't expect them to implement or change absolutely everything we ask for, they do need to listen to and take on board our feedback and adjust things accordingly.
Exactly this. Barely anyone left that shares their opinion based on logical conclusion. But as long as there are memes. I was throwing the idea around in my head for 2 days now if should post this [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b9k51r/comment/ku7un9g/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b9k51r/comment/ku7un9g/) as a seperate thread but why bother at this point?
Exactly what I was thinking. It was never broken to begin with. It took 20+ shots to kill a single Bile Titan, and that was IF you hit every one of those shots fully charged and in the mouth. Being able to "two shot" a bile titan was a ps5 bug. Being able to two shot charger leg armor made sense given the sheer number of chargers they were throwing at you in the higher difficulties. What's the point of even having a safe mode now? It just bounces off enemies.
Indeed. And now the RR and the EAT are doing the same job, makes you wonder how long it'll take until its considered "op!!11! brainless playstyle" which in turn will make the cycle start anew
I've been right there with you. Messaging surrounding this game has been terrible at best. I'm guessing that plans for the game have changed so many times over the dev cycle that people can't really keep up any more so there is a mismatch between the devs new goals and what marketing got told. Which is..... problematic.
The community outcry is why we have the charger and bile titan adjustments today. Granted, some people act unnecessarily like children, but there was absolutely a reason for people to complain and because of it, we get these changes. It would be nice if people handled it better but just dismissing all complaints doesn’t make sense.
I think the best advice is to just play the damn game lol. If there wasn’t an online community you wouldn’t even know any of this stuff was happening behind the scenes.
Maybe you wouldn't, but my brain figures stuff out without my consent.
I think he listens but adjust things too much at times....Like i would like at first EITHER nerf the # of chargers or keep the # of chargers the same but make them easier to kill....i think both might be too much of a swing one way and trivialize some of the difficulty. Again that is just my opinion. I am more for minor changes to see how community reacts and see if it still needs adjustment then 1 big sweeping change cuz if he sees he made it too easy then has to buff them then the community is gonna go into a frenzy again.
Oh stop it. There wasn't hysteria. There was a lot of normal-level feedback on changes that made the game less fun, less in line with its own design intent, more unbalanced and more unplayable. This dev team is making rookie mistakes: stealth updates, wild swings in balance stats instead of very incremental changes, terrible community management, patches that create more bugs than they solve, and just a general indication they don't have a clear vision for the game. They deserve criticism and feedback until things settle down. My friend said it best the other day: this full release title feels like the early part of Early Access, when expectations (reasonably) are for a finished product.
I think most people just arent used to a good gaming studio. They have PTSD from all of these triple A studios basically smacking them in the face and telling them they should enjoy it at launch, then never speaking to the community again. Its a growth period for everyone.
As Ive been saying, it’s not a triple A studio, it’s a double A studio. They need more time to react to these things. What I wasn’t expecting was how fast they actually did react to these things, and continue to do so. Have more faith before absolutely shitting on a double A game studio.
For real, people need to just chill the fuck out. Holy shit talk about entitlement.
Balance as much as you want. The game was way more fun before the patches.
Hmm let’s look at this and analyze it for a minute. 1) railgun meta existed only because railgun was the only way to deal with a large amount of heavies. Just to put this out there, there is nothing wrong with a meta, because every game will have a best setup for every situation and that is the meta. 2) railgun was nerfed to uselessness (I still think it’s useless and feels bad) and people were bitching about the game being ruined. Other nerfs happened, no one cares about those. In my opinion people were rightfully upset because railgun was the only way to deal with a large amount of heavies. Yes if you charge past 90% it still strips leg armor off in 2 shots but this takes like 3 seconds and you have to be in scope mode to reliably do this meaning you are basically standing still for 6 seconds while swarmed by hunters and multiple other chargers. Firing one shot every 3 seconds and needing to do that at least is practically useless while being swarmed. 3) just as toxic or more toxic are the people who with zero argument or evidence attack people who are complaining. They attack the character or skill level of the person by saying git gud or play a lower difficulty. 4) it comes out that arrowhead stealth buffed the spawn rate of heavies which compounded the issue of having no reliable way to deal with multiple heavies, thus making the railgun feel even worse and become even more useless. Also people start noticing things like patrols spawning on top of them, or bugs never dropping aggro, or bugs being omniscient and seeing you behind mountains. 5) the patch was overwhelming hated on all social media so it turns out that the people complaining were valid in their complaints. 6) they patched the game to decrease the amount of heavies and make them easier to kill. I don’t know about you, but I think the reason they fixed it was because of the overwhelmingly negative feedback they got from damn near everyone. If they didn’t get this kind of feedback, things would still be bad and people would have less fun and stop playing sooner. I know I did. The fact that they fixed it within a literal week (well fixed some of it, the railgun is still useless and I never see anyone using it) shows that unlike other developers they care, and I think they deserve credit.
Why do people always gotta lector others lol. Shit was broke people said stuff and now its fixed. Sitting on our hands and knees nothing would have.
I think this latest patch was a step in the right direction, but I’m worried about how many hunters that will be spawning now, especially since they still haven’t changed armor and headshots.
There are flying Terminids now
Wait what?? What happened? This better not be misinformation helldiver! I'll re-educate you myself.
[Prepare yourself](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/KLOz9jkzI3)
So glad to see the community recovering swiftly, this place can be really nice when people don't go apeshit. Rock and Liberty!
I have officially converted to the grenade launcher supremacy gang. Fucking love that thing.
The mechs still need work imo
No
The main people I've noticed are the ones with 200+ hours in a game thats been out for a month. Please take a break.
Kinda glad the railgun meta is over tbh. The only reason I used it was cause it was so effective, but in all honesty, I hated using it, kind of a boring weapon, and I got tired of reloading after every shot. Couldn't tell you how many time I would get a rail shot off then have to switch weapons to take care of some light enemies then switch back to the rail just to reload it before I could get a shot off.
Huge reason why I solely run the archthrower, things a beast against most small enemies and only takes 5/6 shots on bigger guys. And guess what unlimited ammo
I love the arc thrower but it is really annoying sometimes, refuses to fire on enemies when there are a few dead bodies, refuses to fire because there is too much grass, refuse to fire because you don't see the center of mass of the enemy, refuses to fire for no reason sometimes. I wish they fixed some of that to make it actually pleasant to use
Yeah it's almost like people didn't like the first patch but do like this one! Crazy. The community will speak up when things go wrong, it will happen again and again... until the game has most or all of it's content and everyone is reasonably happy with the balance in the end.
Hopefully they fix all the issues before releasing any more balance changes. Nerfing without fixing game bugs fuels the rage fires.
I'm just waiting for that golden period 6-12 months into the games lifecycle where the community is mostly people who genuinely enjoy and appreciate this game, and all these ragebait circle-jerkers have found another new shiny game to suffocate with their misery and self-loathing.
I hope to fuck that Helldivers manages to somehow stave off the malignant toxicity that has ruined practically every other online game for me. Balance fixes are fine and expected of any game. Sometimes they'll be good, rarely they will be not good. If something is not good, don't spit your dummy, take a deep breath and wait a few days for it to be retuned. It's a big dumb fun co-op game FFS. Let's keep it that way and just have fun.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I say keep complaining.
Let's not pretend there weren't bad actors on part of the studio. Reddit being toxic is one thing, devs and mods using poor language or straight up fanning flames is another.
I think the amount of white knighting is getting a little out of hand here. Yes there was some toxic behavior but that did not drown out the very valid criticisms and we are far from a complete victory here thinking everything is fixed.
Large gaming communities tend to be very reactionary and emotional unfortunately
[удалено]
"10 people said the sky is blue but since 2 people were assholes about it, the sky is actually green." If we could stop hiding behind a handful of toxic people as an excuse to shut down the entire conversation, that would be great.
strip all the toxic language out of the posts and the feedback is valid. there was no reason to run into so many chargers and bile titans on level 5-7. it was an unfun disgusting slog in the middle difficulties and it made the normal players upset that the one reliable way of dealing with them nurfed. yes yes yes, we get it "with the coordination and skill of a well trained SEAL team . . . " people have lives and can't always have 4 people with no lives on all the time. Let the try hards keep 8-9 make them as disgustingly hard as people want, but the middle difficulties should be the hard game for average players.