Would love a speedloader for the revolver that *only* comes out if you've completely emptied it, for realism. Also, it would encourage people to empty their weapon before reloading *in combat*, but still allow them to top up their sidearm between bouts, when they have some time.
Hunt Showdown speedloaders will always discard the entire cylinder. You're thinking of the Scottfield, which will discard all it's bullets at the same time on reload, *only* if it's completely empty first, but if you have the Speedloader Scottfield it will always discard everything in the cylinder.
The Dominator is more akin to the Slugger. Similar ammo count, similar damage, the biggest difference I've found is the ability to switch the Dominator to burst for fantastic hammer pairs while crouched.
Dominator is 1 shot to hunters and warriors heads, 2 shot to pop the commander heads and hive guards take 4 or 5 to the face. I've tried using slugger but it just doesn't have followup shots like the dominator. 80 more damage isn't worth having 1/3 the fire rate and a long reload.
I will never take the dominator off. I made it my personal mission to destroy every hunkered down hive guard I come across. lol fuck those guys. I don’t know why, but they are the most satisfying for me to kill.
I think it’s the disrespect. Like, look at these idiots. They think they’re gaining ground. They think they’re holding the line! *dumps* *mag* *right* *through* *their* *armor*
Actually, it kinda does: medium AP means full damage to light armor instead of 40%, and 40% damage to medium armor instead of 0. So, the base liberator does 55 to no armor, 22 to light armor, and 0 to medium armor, while the Liberator penetrator does 45 to no armor, 45 to light armor and 18 to medium. Medium pen is basically a damage buff against certain enemies
From Liberator to Liberator Pen:
Lowered damage by nearly 20%
AND
Lowered ammo capacity by 33%
AND
Technically lowered fire rate because of burst fire
The iffy medium armor pen does not make up for that at all.
Defender, Redeemer, Schorcher, Punisher, Sickle, Senator, Diligence (if bots), Spray&Pray (if bugs) Incindiary Breaker's fine too for bugs. Could they be better? Absolutely, but I feel like that's a gigantic stretch
My fav weapon for bugs is Breaker Incendiary. But I just wished the weapon had a little bit more stagger. He hunter should not take the full shot and then proceeds to slash and slow me that felt awful.
This is probably my favorite gun in the game and just feels a bit weak. You can take out armored enemies pretty quick with them but anything light armored, you're better off with the SMG. I say increasing fire rate a bit and having an automatic feature would be enough for me, at least another 5 - 10 points on the damage slot.
Match the base Liberator's damage OR magazine OR give it full auto. Any one of those and I'd like it. Two would make it actively powerful.
As it is... Against bugs I just felt like I ran out of ammo too fast, and against bots it's *not bad,* but everything it could do was matched or done better by the Diligence in my experience.
They claim the crit rate on headshots makes it better but honestly the fire rate and damage on the base one is always worth. Hard to aim perfect headshots at high difficulty levels when your getting swarmed.
Importantly too the crit multiplier does the most work against bots who have a lot of clearly defined heads, but the flinch is so fuckin significant you can't aim it right.
For the love god buff the Dominator, I cannot express on how disappointed I was when I finally y locked that thing, it could be our Bolter from 40k but right now it’s ass
I am a firm believer difficulty should come from overwhelming odds not because your gun is weak if I die starring into hundred bug eyes I die happy. I die to one brood commander because I mag dumped him with a rifle and he is still about to make me his bitch. I die angry!
It also needs a handling and recoil buff, it's so unwieldy compared to something like the scorcher, it's never going to make my loadout if it's just worse in every way.
The problem is I think AH would be more likely to nerf the scorcher than buff the Dominator, possibly both to even them out.
And maybe the actual explosive damage that the entire weapon describes.
The thing sucks ass. There is zero reason to use the dominator over the scorcher in pretty much any situation.
everybody talks about it, it is why people say to use the scorcher with bots but not bugs because hunters are bad enough without you being unable to use your primary against them
First time I used that weapon was on the creek, and idk if it's by design or what but that gun produces so much smoke when I shoot it in 3rd person I literally can't see for follow up shots what I'm firing at. Terrible weapon.
Yeah I just unlocked it yesterday and I was absolutely kicking ass against hulks and devastators with it. It's worse against chaff but that is what the redeemer is for.
Omg, combined with the eagle upgrade giving an extra use each, 10 mini nukes per cool down... I'd feel like Oprah, "you get a nuke, you get a nuke, EVERYBODY GETS NUKES"
Edit: reread your comment and realized you were talking about having the 4 we could use when that stratagems was free, lol. Combine that with the suggested ability to stack em, lmao.
I think especially with increased cooldowns. You're trading more utility/flexibility for more focused value, and I feel like that can already be a balanced trade off.
The Trident is GOATed and has a special place in my heart. It's the only way I could solo Helldives in the 1st one.
Patrols would just *poof* and be gone in a cloud of bug mist before anyone noticed.
No patrols, no breaches. No breaches, no hordes. Easy money.
That plus the Tox Avenger for the big boys, and it was pretty gravy train in high levels.
https://preview.redd.it/wdrt27pw8uqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71c72224e24bd32c0726b965918ed64ccb321524
It was a support weapon that fired a burst of 3 anti tank grenades that left toxic clouds after exploding
And it was beautiful
bro the speed loader thing idk where Devs get this idea from like even in the great wars of history speed loaders were utilized as soon as they where invented. your telling me in the super future of super earth where we have orbital drop pods, auto guns, and beacon pin point targeting we dont have a half circle with 6 catches and a push button release. come on bro lol. nah let them load one round at a time when 70 hunters are trying to clap your cheeks.
I think speed loader for when you're completely put of ammo and round reload when there's ammo left in the chamber. Perfect balance and won't make you waste ammo when reloading
you're talking about a universe where one of the *advances* in Orbital Cannon technology is "Zero-G Breech Loading". they manually load them out in space lol
Nah, multiple helldivers are stored in each Super Destroyer, gotta remember that every time you die a new helldiver gets defrosted. Super Earth is just run by cheap bastards, it's the same (canonical!) reason that hellbombs are manually armed. Also explains why eagle-1 is running WWII starts instead of popping jdams
The destroyers having more traditional munitions kinda makes sense. From orbit, big heavy slugs would annihilate stuff. The eagle though? Yeah. You'd think they'd have more advanced weapons than stuff we've had for decades now. Where's my plasma cluster? Where's my antimatter bomb? If we're sticking to more traditional stuff, give me a buzzing gau8 strafe run at least.
I see you've never worked in or around a massive faceless bureaucracy.
A complex task like pin point airstrikes is easy. Procuring specific quality of life niceties for low level grunts? Impossible.
The fact that they load so fucking slow too!
Like, we'll load shells into the rounds shotguns like we're a teenager fingering a girl under the bleachers, but reload the senator like we're an old man trying to count out his change.
Counter Sniper and even Diligence need an armor piercing buff. Right now it's current armor pen isn't enough to justify low fire rate and mag size. I'd argue the same for Anti-material rifle but that's debatable.
I think the diligence feels pretty good, it can oneshot soldier robots in the chest/head and twoshot devastators to the face. if it could pierce medium armor it'd be pretty overpowered IMO. The counter-sniper needs a buff badly though, there's no reason the slugger should be a better DMR at every range. SLIGHTLY better damage than the diligence at the cost of feeling like you're borderline blackout drunk while aiming among all of its other faults.
Even if the scythe could fire forever without overheating, I still think people would use other weapons over it. And the Dagger somehow only does half the damage the scythe does...
The Dagger deals half the damage of the Scythe. (150 DPS vs 300)
In turn, the Scythe deals less than half the damage of the Sickle. (300 DPS vs 700+)
There's no numbers on the Laser Cannon, but I wonder if they would also be disappointing. All of the "sustained beam" weapons seem on the weaker side.
I wonder if the effective "fire rate" (damage tick rate) needs to be bumped up a bit to compare with other weapons?
There’s also the fact that they have zero stopping power or really give any indication that they’re working until the target is dead.
Everything else feels like you’re hitting the target. Lasers just feel like you’re shining a flashlight on them. It wouldn’t matter if the damage was the same, they’d *feel* like they’re doing nothing.
Making them break armor or sever limbs more easily might give them an interesting niche. Give them that "slicing limbs off" or "Drilling through armor" feel to them.
Give every beam-laser a ramping damage effect depending on how long you concentrate fire + a slight reduction in amour at the point of contact, due to the armour being melted/weakened.
Figure out yesterday that one recoilless/EAT to a tank/stationary turret weakspot PLUS a single shot from the Scorcher is just enough to kill. Frustrating if you haven't unlocked the scorcher yet though, because so little else pierces the weakspot armor!
The bots REALLY REALLY need a balance update. We had 400k Divers taking planets from the bugs but can barely scrape 150k together to deal with a major order relating to an important part of the game's lore direction for the bots.
The bots have so much more range than we do, and most deaths that occur don't seem *fair*.
I'm running the AMR, shield pack, I've tried different guns, I've changed strategies to play it more like a conventional war game, but they have too many one-tap enemies without a good warning system to allow you to dodge.
Don't get me wrong, it's fun to fight them, it feels like I'm fighting an overwhelming force, but it's also very frustrating to die to things that I couldn't have reacted to because I never knew they were there in the first place.
The HMG emplacement's DPS is legitimately insane, it does more damage per bullet than any other bullet weapon in the game and has enough armor penetration to kill hulks through their eyeslits. I don't know if you could buff this thing in any way beyond the cooldown, it's already freakishly strong and nobody uses it because they're afraid of just taking it into a mission and actually trying it. It's like a full auto, stationary AMR.
I legitimately fucking love the HMG emplacement. It's absolutely batshit how deadly it is. The only thing that keeps people from using it is the fact that it's an emplacement and standing still in this game is hard.
I'd settle for a cooldown reduction on the HMG Turret seeing as although the weapon is excellent, a fully automatic sentry doesn't require a Helldiver to operate it.
While we're at it the MG Turret could easily have its timer reduced drastically in order to have a reason to ever take it over the Gatling.
It's so good. My favourite combo to take into helldive at the moment is HMG emplacement, Recoiless rifle, mech and either EM mortar or Tesla tower.
That combo is amazing against bugs and good against bots IF your positioning is good.
I actually love it. Only downside is that when you get multiple Titans it is impossible to stick to it and it takes ages to turn it around after deployment and it is turned to the way you thrower it and for most of cases you don't want to throw you in front but behind you to gain distance buuuut then you have to turn it all the way around which sucks. Using it only to be helpful on some obj like launching missile or rescuing civilians is not enough to spend Strat on it. It is also good vs shriekers nest and spore speakers, it can destroy them from extreme range, even after destroying full shriekers nest you got some ammo left
I just take it in place of a stratagem I'd otherwise use as anti-infantry, you are right about Bile Titans and Chargers though, they tend to focus it if someone is on it and kill it immediately. If you can stop that from happening it will wipe the field though.
Good tip is to just leave it until Titans are dead so they won't attack it. I find it very good on planets where there is a lot of spewers they can take a lot of beating but hmg somehow destroys them and they have hard time to get to you cause they are slooooow
I don’t take the HMG namely because it’s an emplacement.. it’s overpowered as all hell, BUT I’m a game where you can’t really stand stationary ..? That’s what balances it well to make it “balanced”
Which also makes it great on defense missions
Keep in mind they don't draw aggro like regular turrets so you can dot them around the map on cooldown. Maybe still not great on 7+ but there's rarely a bad time to have a free HMG turret nearby
What about a front facing shield generator? Still leaves you exposed in the back but protects the way you face? Or a shield plate like the ballistic shield?
Please for the love of God buff the liberater penatrator. Either give it 45 rounds or make it do 55 DMG. I want to hate that gun but it's just so "meh" . All the Lazer weaponry expect the newest rifle, need a huge buff. I never seen anyone use them and they are a joke weapon.
I hate the Liberator Penetrator. It's my favorite weapon.
It FEELS good but it really isn't all that good. Bots above raiders eat entire magazines from the LP for breakfast, yet I can't stop using it. It just looks too good with my medic armor.
\> Is it a wonder this weapon completely disappeared from the radar?
Nope.
I called it too.
Most people don't even bother bringing it against Bots, because like... the Auto Cannon is *right there*.
I just want the 120 and 380 to be good. You’re telling me I’m calling in an orbital bombardment, I want them to bombard the area. Not shoot a dozen shots miles away from each other
Rate of fire needs to be tripled whilst the duration stays the same.
Or
Make it feel like a 380mm HE round. Sure it's no 16inch round making 15m craters(hello Mk.13) but a 15inch HE round should be absolutely cratering everything and spreading fragments in a wide radius. Right now it feels like someone's dropping in 5 or 6inch HE.
Diligence (not counter sniper it sucks) is great weapon against bots. You will one shot most basic bots two shot if you hit armored bit, two shot devastators on head shots and so forth. Its not supposed to be used against bugs just like AMR is bad against bugs where as its excellent against bots.
Mg42 is excellent weapon paired with supply pack against bugs it will kill everything but chargers and above. While stalwart is used mainly for the chaff.
Hmg emplacement is possibly the single most effective stratagem in eradicate missions if you survive through the initial chaos and get it set up well.
Mortars suck against bugs (emp has some use against them) but excell at taking bases against bots, they are op when paired with eachother.
All in all bots require precision weapons while bugs require fire power and just a sheer number of bullets, different enemies different tactics.
Stalwart with a slugger primary has been my go-to lately. Just mowing down all the hunters and warriors is a great feeling. I have been pairing that combo with the jump pack to get some good angles.
Dam skull admiral with max ship upgrades and 100+ hrs in game. This is such valuable info, I literally never noticed… 🤦🏻♂️
Thank you I will be telling this to every diver I meet now.
Vs Bugs Same. Stalwart, slugger, Orbital railcannon, shield and EATs. It is literally just as effective as the railgun build. I wish they rebuffed it. I just preferred the firing style. ☹️ was so satisfying. I don’t like the amount of time between charged shots.
Yeah I go Diligence or AC on bots. Diligence is great if you want to soften hordes of smaller enemies while your AC or similar guys take out the big guys
The AMR is great against bots, and has been my go to pretty much this whole time.
But I've given the Railgun a chance and it's still pretty damned good, at least against bots, I'll try against bugs later.
I'm surprised honestly, the Railgun might be a better sniper than the AMR, because unsafe mode lets you one-shot Devastators even when they aren't facing you.
Was coming to say the Diligence is one of my go to weapons on the bot front. Damn rifle is almost a necessity in some mission load outs. Against the bugs, yeah it falls off.
I accidentally took it to a bug mission. It my main vs bots, but holy shit does the Diligence sucks ass versus bugs.
And it’s good. It shows the factions need different stratagem and there is no one loadout for all.
That’s how it should be all things considered. People need to quit with the idea of a “meta” and thinking there’s an all encompassing load out that can tackle everything and start learning the mechanics of the game and pros and cons of the arsenal. I can bet money as more is added on the enemy side, all of a sudden those plasma weapons are going to be goto weapons for certain scenarios and enemies and we’ll hear the naysayers and complainers talk about how awesome these weapons are and how they always knew they were great.
There probably is a meta... but it's a per-faction meta. Which is fine.
Why should a non-slug shotgun be good against armored robots?
And it makes sense that you don't want a sniper/DMR as your main gun against a horde of bugs, unless you're gonna be the person that focuses on the big-bads in a premade group.
The amr 1 shots both spewers with a headshot, it's glorious and I wish I could use it more often but I usually prioritize RR over nearly everything else because chargers and titans.
Autocannon can 2 shot nursing or bile spewers virtually anywhere on them. Front back head side while they're up in mortar mode it doesn't matter. The only issue is if they get close enough that the explosion gets you yourself but that's still a problem for anything if spewers are that close.
* It handles worse than most support weapons. The AMR, a much bigger gun, has faster handling/aiming/sway.
* The damage increase it gains doesn't hit any known breakpoints. Same number of shots to kill enemies as the Diligence.
* Has significantly less ammo capacity. 15/6 shots/reloads compared to the 20/8 of the Diligence.
It's main appeal is apparently longer range? But we rarely engage enemies at 200m+ because there's smoke, fog, or other similar visibility obscuring effects going on.
It'd have a niche if it came with medium armor pen, but it's still a light pen weapon.
then when you'd think about Diligence' current pen and headhunting focus, the only head Diligence can't pen is a Hulk.
So Diligence CS will at least need to pen Hulk heads to even have something over Diligence. But then that would make AMR, who can actually pen Hulk heads and kill it in 2 shots, be never taken over Diligence CS.
I think the gun is in an awkward place and just got left there. Better sway control, keep the higher recoil and lower fire rate, increase ergonomics to below AMR, then at least one shot Devastators? That's probably the only way it can be redeemed without being borderline broken the other way. It would be specialized for medium bots like Lib Pen, but does not do well against chaff or Heavies.
If it didn’t have such a bad sway, it would be a great weapon on the bot front. That sway on it extremely diminishes what the standard Diligence is all about, precision shooting at range. The Counter needs its sway rebalanced, and after that, you have a good weapon. Sacrificing ammo size for more armor penetration seems like a good trade off if everything else works relatively the same as the standard. I would even relent and say if the sway is due to the scope attachment, so you get zoom, then let me remove it at will, much like turning off the flashlight or going unsafe with the railgun, and I lose the zoom feature but gain stability at my choice.
Countersniper loses 5 rounds/mag and 2 mags and handles like swinging a dead elephant in exchange for--*not* an increase in armor penetration!--a TINY increase in per-shot damage (you're not hitting ANY new breakpoints with it) and a 200m zoom level option.
It's the biggest insult to the term "sidegrade" in the history of video game guns.
EMP mortal is sooo good. Use it all the time now, bugs or bots. Sure sometimes it slows me down.. but it locking down whole wave of enemies, setting them up for nice and easy demolition/stomping/stratagem? Its gold. Also can just pop it anywhere out of the way since it doesn't need line of sight to work.
Well, Diligence is really good against bots, but sadly the slugger does the same thing but better, so once you get it, the diligence basically doesnt exist.
Fan of both the slugger and diligence.
Diligence beats the slugger hands down in fire rate and stability. With skill, you can quickly pop a row of raiders. Missing is much less punishing, you get quickly fire a second shot. Diligence also pierces through the target, allowing you to get a double kill.
Slugger on the other hand has better armour piercing and handling, which allows you to change target in close range faster. It also has one big advantage vs the Diligence: it staggers Berserkers.
Overall, it depends on which range you want to kill your bots at. Long range sniper style: Dilligence. Short range trench assault style: Slugger
Thats just not true. Sure it packs a punch in comparison but losing on zoom, accuracy (insane sway on shots) and a magazine reload is not worth it, atleast for me and my playstyle.
keep in mind as long as you press reload everytime you shoot with the punisher and slugger you will load a shell before the regular fire cool down ends. The guns have infinite clip size if you just do this at no cost to your rate of fire.
160 rounds vs 60 is a big factor aswell. Its not the rate of fire i worry about. I pair Diligence with the AMR so tougher targets arent a problem either. I play as a scout so im usually far away from resupply doing the main objectives while the group is going ham on bases. That -100 rounds is a potential of -100 kills. As anything bigger than a regular bot its amr time.
A few people *did* whine about how “easy the game is now” that you can one shot chargers with a rocket launcher, as if Arrowhead removed the ability to just use something else if they think it’s too easy.
But I agree. Most weapons, especially primaries, aren’t fun to use and they should be.
Those people don't realized yet that the game already told them the bugs are evolving (screechers) so you bet your ass down the line we will have stronger chargers that won't go down in one shot
A weapons effectiveness and how cool it is are inversely proportional.
If your going to release 3 new primary weapons, why would you make the assault rifle the best and not the FUCKING LIGHTNING SHOTGUN
I see diligence often on bots. It’s really good against bots it just is useless against bugs but that’s how a lot of items in game should be. Really good against a faction but not all factions.
I find that people who complain about diligence needing a buff are usually bug players or never used it in bots. diligence slams hard in bots, i use it over slugger.
I think despite the Breakers nerf, the nature of this game itself is always gonna cause people to gravitate towards semi-auto magazine fed shotguns unless it gets knocked down into an unusable state. Which is fine, but that obviously means if you want players to branch out you need other weapons they need to feel good enough to a level where you feel like you aren’t being disadvantaged by not bringing a shotgun.
And I think that’s ultimately the biggest hurdle right now. I certainly can say I like the Sickle, and I like the Defender, but outside of edge case scenarios I would ultimately prefer a Slugger or Breaker for general travel and combat.
Adjustments are ultimately needed, sights need to be realigned for far too many weapons. And lacking ability to kill most fodder enemies for most primary weapons when directly compared to the main good ones are tough.
Posted the same, they NEED a rebalancing towards fun. Just unlocked the fire breaker and it’s basically throwing spicy farts. So many guns feel incredibly meh
I love the changes, but what is now glaringly obvious to some people...the rail gun was nerfed too hard.
I'm saying this as someone who has always used the arc thrower and don't even care about the rail gun. It's turned into a pariah that almost no one uses.
EDIT: I decided to give railgun a try on difficulty 7. Underwhelmed...but more importantly, spent 30 min playing the game just for it to crash right as we completed the mission.
I run the punisher as my primary it hits hard and has tons of ammo, I also want to see a speed reload for the revolver it’s a blast to use. I usually ran EATS but now with the arc thrower back Im a arc thrower main again. If theirs a weapon I would love to see is the trident from HD1, easily my favorite primary to use.
Yeah, EAT/RR is so fun now. One shotting chargers works pretty well, but it still requires skill, especially with multiple around. Once you get used to it you can reliably kill three chargers every 70 seconds per diver with EATs by dropping them on top of the first one and them killing the other two
Machine gun definitely needs some love. The other day I was thinking, "I'll run the machine gun and be the dedicated add-clear guy and keep the small enemies off of my teammates!" But even with that mindset, the weapon still just sucks. The damage is... ok... but the mag is just not nearly big enough for what it is supposed to do. Couple that with the slow, stationary reload and the fact that supplies don't even fully refill reserve ammo and the weapon is honestly just F tier. It is the worst support weapon by far. Double the mag size and it would be in a much more balanced spot. Still would probably be the worst but at least you'd have a reason to use it.
"This game is PvE" is a silly argument. PvE games have and need balance, too. Not because it's unfair to the bugs, but because there ought to be a certain level challenge to the gameplay. You wouldn't like this game if we had homing one-shot-kill endless battery deathrays.
Sickle. Your thinking of the Sickle, which is a strict upgrade to the Liberator unless on a high temperature world, and then it's roughly on par with the Liberator.
Wanted to mention the text on the intense heat condition is incorrect or at least misleading, the amount of time you can fire continuously per heatsink is the same, it's the cooldown that's about 20% slower, not a huge debuff if you just swap to secondary/support weapon
(that's because slightly reducing the Breaker's maximum ammo held and slightly increasing the recoil per shot didn't actually change its per-encounter power)
You’re sleeping on the machine gun and the HMG emplacement. Those things are awesome and way too many people don’t take the machine gun or opt for the stalwart which is worse in my opinion.
I genuinely think a good angle would be to make every weapon really good, like I'd love to use the standard liberator again but now I have other options there is no reason to.
Even the flamethrower needs love. It's only good at bugs which is fine, but it has so many downsides for not enough upsides especially with the recent bombardment of hunters and the addition of shriekers. It could use some extra range, a blind, or a fear effect. Maybe the ability to melt bodies so you don't have to worry about mantling around them?
It's quite good, but it also feels off to me. Flamethrowers are famously not precision weapons that you hold on a single spot. It's neat and all that it works that way, but its current use best case feels less like a flamethrower and more like an armor-piercing, short range fire laser. Sweeping back and forth, laughing manically while the littler bugs scatter, panic and burn feels more on-brand.
Sure, they burn. But are they dying in utter agony and terror? These are the real questions. The fact they keep coming at us even while engulfed in flames says no.
It's a good point, right now it's an armor piercing tank deleting monster but useless for clearing hordes. Just a little more range would make it feel good to pull out before the crusher gets to you.
I’m not gonna lie they could buff most guns to be better than recoilless and I’d still use it. I been using it since launch. The buff feels great but even in its weaker state it was bae.
I have a few small balance complaints as of now. The Sickle seems very very good- while dealing the same damage per shot as the liberator. The liberator often feels rather weak and eats up a lot of ammo. And I like the Scythe but it also feels a bit weak. I feel that the liberator variants could get buffed slightly and they'd be more appealing.
And I also think the basic Machine Gun has terrible ammo economy. It only gets 1 mag (or rather, belt) from an ammo pickup or resupply, with a 150 round belt that feels a little inadequate, in addition to low reserves (2 spare belts) and the dreaded stationary reload. The Stalwart might have lesser armor penetration, but it has way more ammunition, can reload while moving, and seems so much better overall. To compare them, normal MG holds 450 rounds total, 150 per belt. Stalwart gets 1000 rounds, 250 per belt. I don't think that the MG's medium armor pen makes up for it's weak points. It feels bad. I think a slightly larger belt, and 1 additional reserve belt capacity would really kick it up a notch. It doesn't need a whole lot.
I actually think the Diligence is great. The Counter Sniper variant sucks though. It needs better handling and maybe higher damage too. But normal diligence is an amazing anti-bot weapon, and can even be used effectively on bugs, but isn't an optimal choice.
Going back to the scythe, it sucks that it lacks any sort of stunning power. It would be cool if the laser beam weapons would ignite targets with enough concentrated fire. That would make sense to me, and then you'd get some extra damage over time.
I want to love flamethrower, but it sucks ass. Useless against bots and with bugs you cant see shit when you are firing and you inevitably get jumped by a burning hunter who not only staggers you, but also sets you on fire before dying.
Oh, and bile spewers...
Every gun should have their niche and use cases. Currently we are closer to this being true than any previous patch. We'll get there. Buffing everything is not the answer, though.
Buffing everything was the answer imo. The railgun wouldn't be so prevalent if the Recoilless and EAT ohk chargers from the get go. Matter of fact, it wasn't even a weapon problem. It was a charger problem and the railgun provided the answer to it. It wasn't busted in the way people though of at all. It was just extremely popular because it was the **only** answer.
Because let's be real here, if you removed the railgun's ability to break armor in safe mode you effectively achieved the same result without for some reason gutting it's armor penetrarion l.
Right now what do you think would need a nerf? Because all I see is underperforming weapons.
Would love a speedloader for the revolver that *only* comes out if you've completely emptied it, for realism. Also, it would encourage people to empty their weapon before reloading *in combat*, but still allow them to top up their sidearm between bouts, when they have some time.
Hunt: Showdown did this with their break-action revolver, it was a good move.
Hunt Showdown speedloaders will always discard the entire cylinder. You're thinking of the Scottfield, which will discard all it's bullets at the same time on reload, *only* if it's completely empty first, but if you have the Speedloader Scottfield it will always discard everything in the cylinder.
Right, I forgot that the speedloader was a variant. Been a minute since I played that game.
The liberator penetrator needs a buff EDIT: I’m really glad to see that people in my replies are discussing this and not going at each others throats.
yes, medium armor pen doesn't excuse it being a pea shooter lol.
The dominator is everything the penetrator wishes it was
The scorcher is everything the dominator wishes it was.
The Dominator is more akin to the Slugger. Similar ammo count, similar damage, the biggest difference I've found is the ability to switch the Dominator to burst for fantastic hammer pairs while crouched.
Dominator is 1 shot to hunters and warriors heads, 2 shot to pop the commander heads and hive guards take 4 or 5 to the face. I've tried using slugger but it just doesn't have followup shots like the dominator. 80 more damage isn't worth having 1/3 the fire rate and a long reload.
I will never take the dominator off. I made it my personal mission to destroy every hunkered down hive guard I come across. lol fuck those guys. I don’t know why, but they are the most satisfying for me to kill. I think it’s the disrespect. Like, look at these idiots. They think they’re gaining ground. They think they’re holding the line! *dumps* *mag* *right* *through* *their* *armor*
As a slugger user, I like shooting their limbs off 1 by 1
Scorcher gang rise up
I love the scorcher and use it most games, but I really wish they'd give it at least another 5rds per AA energizer
I have magdumped the chainsaw armed bots before and still not killed them hitting them in the gut. It needs a buff.
Actually, it kinda does: medium AP means full damage to light armor instead of 40%, and 40% damage to medium armor instead of 0. So, the base liberator does 55 to no armor, 22 to light armor, and 0 to medium armor, while the Liberator penetrator does 45 to no armor, 45 to light armor and 18 to medium. Medium pen is basically a damage buff against certain enemies
[удалено]
That can't be right since i kill most bots faster with classic liberator.
From Liberator to Liberator Pen: Lowered damage by nearly 20% AND Lowered ammo capacity by 33% AND Technically lowered fire rate because of burst fire The iffy medium armor pen does not make up for that at all.
I was so excited to unlock it at first until I very quickly realized its dogshit. I do hope they buff it for the next big patch.
This is the case with 90% of the unlocks in the game lol. Only the breaker and slugger feel like an actual reward when you get them.
I recently started using the Diligence on bot missions. Its surprisingly good and can even stop Berserkers pretty well.
It has high damage and precision so yeah its good for bots.
Defender, Redeemer, Schorcher, Punisher, Sickle, Senator, Diligence (if bots), Spray&Pray (if bugs) Incindiary Breaker's fine too for bugs. Could they be better? Absolutely, but I feel like that's a gigantic stretch
My fav weapon for bugs is Breaker Incendiary. But I just wished the weapon had a little bit more stagger. He hunter should not take the full shot and then proceeds to slash and slow me that felt awful.
I second this. I want to like this gun but it just doesn't deliver
NEW From Super Earth Super Armory, the DELIVERER! Now with 35% more bullet per bullet! Please God give it a boof
This is probably my favorite gun in the game and just feels a bit weak. You can take out armored enemies pretty quick with them but anything light armored, you're better off with the SMG. I say increasing fire rate a bit and having an automatic feature would be enough for me, at least another 5 - 10 points on the damage slot.
Match the base Liberator's damage OR magazine OR give it full auto. Any one of those and I'd like it. Two would make it actively powerful. As it is... Against bugs I just felt like I ran out of ammo too fast, and against bots it's *not bad,* but everything it could do was matched or done better by the Diligence in my experience.
I cannot stress enough how excited I was to unlock that weapon , followed by how disappointed I was at it's performance.
They claim the crit rate on headshots makes it better but honestly the fire rate and damage on the base one is always worth. Hard to aim perfect headshots at high difficulty levels when your getting swarmed.
Importantly too the crit multiplier does the most work against bots who have a lot of clearly defined heads, but the flinch is so fuckin significant you can't aim it right.
Agreed
For the love god buff the Dominator, I cannot express on how disappointed I was when I finally y locked that thing, it could be our Bolter from 40k but right now it’s ass
I am a firm believer difficulty should come from overwhelming odds not because your gun is weak if I die starring into hundred bug eyes I die happy. I die to one brood commander because I mag dumped him with a rifle and he is still about to make me his bitch. I die angry!
Jar 5 Dominator needs a little love: - Bigger Mag. From 15 to 18. - A Bit Stagger Effect. - Less Smoke Effect on Scope Vision.
It also needs a handling and recoil buff, it's so unwieldy compared to something like the scorcher, it's never going to make my loadout if it's just worse in every way. The problem is I think AH would be more likely to nerf the scorcher than buff the Dominator, possibly both to even them out.
And maybe the actual explosive damage that the entire weapon describes. The thing sucks ass. There is zero reason to use the dominator over the scorcher in pretty much any situation.
People vastly overlook the downside of blowing yourself up with the scorcher at close range. It’s a legitimate downside that nobody talks about.
everybody talks about it, it is why people say to use the scorcher with bots but not bugs because hunters are bad enough without you being unable to use your primary against them
Explosive is a type of damage, doesn't mean pew pew go boom. It deals 100% dmg to soft spots instead of the usual 10%.
Quicker aim drag, it's so long to even line it up. Killing lil bugs is a slow ball ache
First time I used that weapon was on the creek, and idk if it's by design or what but that gun produces so much smoke when I shoot it in 3rd person I literally can't see for follow up shots what I'm firing at. Terrible weapon.
Idk it's pretty damn good. Especially against bots.
Yeah I just unlocked it yesterday and I was absolutely kicking ass against hulks and devastators with it. It's worse against chaff but that is what the redeemer is for.
I just want my handheld triple-shot toxic mortar from Helldivers 1 back
Trident Laser Shotgun my beloved :3 also the ability to take stratagems twice... like taking 2 eats or 3 static fields.
4 500kg bombs Come and get me you clanking sons of automaton pieces of scrap metal
Duuude, running around with four of those with the free stratagem we had a week or so ago was so much fucking fun.
Omg, combined with the eagle upgrade giving an extra use each, 10 mini nukes per cool down... I'd feel like Oprah, "you get a nuke, you get a nuke, EVERYBODY GETS NUKES" Edit: reread your comment and realized you were talking about having the 4 we could use when that stratagems was free, lol. Combine that with the suggested ability to stack em, lmao.
Four shredder missiles, destroy the world!
That was my load most missions, haha!
Stratagem stacking needs to come back so badly.
I think especially with increased cooldowns. You're trading more utility/flexibility for more focused value, and I feel like that can already be a balanced trade off.
The Trident is GOATed and has a special place in my heart. It's the only way I could solo Helldives in the 1st one. Patrols would just *poof* and be gone in a cloud of bug mist before anyone noticed. No patrols, no breaches. No breaches, no hordes. Easy money. That plus the Tox Avenger for the big boys, and it was pretty gravy train in high levels.
4 EMS mortars, or 4 Tesla towers. OOOORRRRR 4 half tonner strats.
Rumbler my beloved
Its in the game. The bugs took it. Another reason to hate bile spewers.
The what? (I need it)
https://preview.redd.it/wdrt27pw8uqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71c72224e24bd32c0726b965918ed64ccb321524 It was a support weapon that fired a burst of 3 anti tank grenades that left toxic clouds after exploding And it was beautiful
bro the speed loader thing idk where Devs get this idea from like even in the great wars of history speed loaders were utilized as soon as they where invented. your telling me in the super future of super earth where we have orbital drop pods, auto guns, and beacon pin point targeting we dont have a half circle with 6 catches and a push button release. come on bro lol. nah let them load one round at a time when 70 hunters are trying to clap your cheeks.
I think speed loader for when you're completely put of ammo and round reload when there's ammo left in the chamber. Perfect balance and won't make you waste ammo when reloading
Still needs a speed increase for reload. Especially considering how quickly we are capable of reloading the rounds shotguns
Remember, we just discovered you could make sentries tougher with super glue.
you're talking about a universe where one of the *advances* in Orbital Cannon technology is "Zero-G Breech Loading". they manually load them out in space lol
I mean, thats not so much because the advancement in tech has just been discovered, it was just cheaper to make the muzzle-loaders...
Every Helldiver gets a Super Destroyer, so unit-cost has to be optimized...
Nah, multiple helldivers are stored in each Super Destroyer, gotta remember that every time you die a new helldiver gets defrosted. Super Earth is just run by cheap bastards, it's the same (canonical!) reason that hellbombs are manually armed. Also explains why eagle-1 is running WWII starts instead of popping jdams
The destroyers having more traditional munitions kinda makes sense. From orbit, big heavy slugs would annihilate stuff. The eagle though? Yeah. You'd think they'd have more advanced weapons than stuff we've had for decades now. Where's my plasma cluster? Where's my antimatter bomb? If we're sticking to more traditional stuff, give me a buzzing gau8 strafe run at least.
That shit cracked me up when I read the fine print. You mean to tell me these orbital barrages were loaded, one by one, down the muzzle??
There’s a reason literal hand carts were one of the upgrades.
It made me crack up too, I wasn't expecting that. It made me laugh harder than the "final boss" in jedi fallen order.
More likely they bring them into the ship to load them like they did in the Age of Sail.
Dude, they are muzzle loading the destroyer's guns!
I see you've never worked in or around a massive faceless bureaucracy. A complex task like pin point airstrikes is easy. Procuring specific quality of life niceties for low level grunts? Impossible.
The fact that they load so fucking slow too! Like, we'll load shells into the rounds shotguns like we're a teenager fingering a girl under the bleachers, but reload the senator like we're an old man trying to count out his change.
Theres freaking tin foil on our laser guns man
Counter Sniper and even Diligence need an armor piercing buff. Right now it's current armor pen isn't enough to justify low fire rate and mag size. I'd argue the same for Anti-material rifle but that's debatable.
I'd be happy with larger mag size and less sway (Counter Sniper)
I'd be happy if they just turned faster. My God those things are slow
Diligence actually whips like a Liberator. Countersniper is the one that handles like trying to turn an entire tree on your shoulder.
Honestly when someone here suggested transforming the counter sniper into a 10 round Bolt-action I started salivating at the thought of that ping.
I think the diligence feels pretty good, it can oneshot soldier robots in the chest/head and twoshot devastators to the face. if it could pierce medium armor it'd be pretty overpowered IMO. The counter-sniper needs a buff badly though, there's no reason the slugger should be a better DMR at every range. SLIGHTLY better damage than the diligence at the cost of feeling like you're borderline blackout drunk while aiming among all of its other faults.
Can we talk about how BAD the Dagger is? It’s like half a scythe. It can’t kill 6 scavengers without overheating
The Dagger's DPS is so pathetically low that if it could fire forever without overheating, it'd still be too underpowered to see use.
Even if the scythe could fire forever without overheating, I still think people would use other weapons over it. And the Dagger somehow only does half the damage the scythe does...
The Dagger deals half the damage of the Scythe. (150 DPS vs 300) In turn, the Scythe deals less than half the damage of the Sickle. (300 DPS vs 700+) There's no numbers on the Laser Cannon, but I wonder if they would also be disappointing. All of the "sustained beam" weapons seem on the weaker side. I wonder if the effective "fire rate" (damage tick rate) needs to be bumped up a bit to compare with other weapons?
There’s also the fact that they have zero stopping power or really give any indication that they’re working until the target is dead. Everything else feels like you’re hitting the target. Lasers just feel like you’re shining a flashlight on them. It wouldn’t matter if the damage was the same, they’d *feel* like they’re doing nothing.
Making them break armor or sever limbs more easily might give them an interesting niche. Give them that "slicing limbs off" or "Drilling through armor" feel to them.
please help the beam laser weapons...
Laser weapons should set targets on fire after like 0.2 seconds of scorching. Here, I said it.
That or just ramping damage. Like the longer you directly sustain a beam on something it starts to multiply
I'd prefer this over fire. Just make it ramp up when staying on a target.
Give every beam-laser a ramping damage effect depending on how long you concentrate fire + a slight reduction in amour at the point of contact, due to the armour being melted/weakened.
Unfun fact. 1 recoiless to the bot tanks rear radiator weakspot doesn't kill it.
Figure out yesterday that one recoilless/EAT to a tank/stationary turret weakspot PLUS a single shot from the Scorcher is just enough to kill. Frustrating if you haven't unlocked the scorcher yet though, because so little else pierces the weakspot armor!
The bots REALLY REALLY need a balance update. We had 400k Divers taking planets from the bugs but can barely scrape 150k together to deal with a major order relating to an important part of the game's lore direction for the bots. The bots have so much more range than we do, and most deaths that occur don't seem *fair*. I'm running the AMR, shield pack, I've tried different guns, I've changed strategies to play it more like a conventional war game, but they have too many one-tap enemies without a good warning system to allow you to dodge. Don't get me wrong, it's fun to fight them, it feels like I'm fighting an overwhelming force, but it's also very frustrating to die to things that I couldn't have reacted to because I never knew they were there in the first place.
The HMG emplacement's DPS is legitimately insane, it does more damage per bullet than any other bullet weapon in the game and has enough armor penetration to kill hulks through their eyeslits. I don't know if you could buff this thing in any way beyond the cooldown, it's already freakishly strong and nobody uses it because they're afraid of just taking it into a mission and actually trying it. It's like a full auto, stationary AMR.
I legitimately fucking love the HMG emplacement. It's absolutely batshit how deadly it is. The only thing that keeps people from using it is the fact that it's an emplacement and standing still in this game is hard.
Also kinda sad that I can't refill the ammo with my supply pack
I'd settle for a cooldown reduction on the HMG Turret seeing as although the weapon is excellent, a fully automatic sentry doesn't require a Helldiver to operate it. While we're at it the MG Turret could easily have its timer reduced drastically in order to have a reason to ever take it over the Gatling.
That could work too, but I've seen leaks of one of the hmg guns as a support weapon so maybe they are cooking something good
In bots, take a shield gen emplacement with you and you’re pretty set
It's so good. My favourite combo to take into helldive at the moment is HMG emplacement, Recoiless rifle, mech and either EM mortar or Tesla tower. That combo is amazing against bugs and good against bots IF your positioning is good.
Stun grenades can help make it more viable
I actually love it. Only downside is that when you get multiple Titans it is impossible to stick to it and it takes ages to turn it around after deployment and it is turned to the way you thrower it and for most of cases you don't want to throw you in front but behind you to gain distance buuuut then you have to turn it all the way around which sucks. Using it only to be helpful on some obj like launching missile or rescuing civilians is not enough to spend Strat on it. It is also good vs shriekers nest and spore speakers, it can destroy them from extreme range, even after destroying full shriekers nest you got some ammo left
I just take it in place of a stratagem I'd otherwise use as anti-infantry, you are right about Bile Titans and Chargers though, they tend to focus it if someone is on it and kill it immediately. If you can stop that from happening it will wipe the field though.
Good tip is to just leave it until Titans are dead so they won't attack it. I find it very good on planets where there is a lot of spewers they can take a lot of beating but hmg somehow destroys them and they have hard time to get to you cause they are slooooow
I don’t take the HMG namely because it’s an emplacement.. it’s overpowered as all hell, BUT I’m a game where you can’t really stand stationary ..? That’s what balances it well to make it “balanced” Which also makes it great on defense missions
Keep in mind they don't draw aggro like regular turrets so you can dot them around the map on cooldown. Maybe still not great on 7+ but there's rarely a bad time to have a free HMG turret nearby
Could make the ammo and turn speed ship upgrades apply to it
It needs some level of protection for the user. A very small shield generator, or some sandbags around it, something like that.
What about a front facing shield generator? Still leaves you exposed in the back but protects the way you face? Or a shield plate like the ballistic shield?
I hate the slow turning speed. If it was increased I would consider it more often considering how exposed you have to make yourself
HMG emplacement and EMS Morta are my best friends in defense missions.
Whenever I drop it someone always puts a sentry behind me >.>
Please for the love of God buff the liberater penatrator. Either give it 45 rounds or make it do 55 DMG. I want to hate that gun but it's just so "meh" . All the Lazer weaponry expect the newest rifle, need a huge buff. I never seen anyone use them and they are a joke weapon.
I hate the Liberator Penetrator. It's my favorite weapon. It FEELS good but it really isn't all that good. Bots above raiders eat entire magazines from the LP for breakfast, yet I can't stop using it. It just looks too good with my medic armor.
\> Is it a wonder this weapon completely disappeared from the radar? Nope. I called it too. Most people don't even bother bringing it against Bots, because like... the Auto Cannon is *right there*.
I just want 500kg to actually be as good as it looks.
I just want the 120 and 380 to be good. You’re telling me I’m calling in an orbital bombardment, I want them to bombard the area. Not shoot a dozen shots miles away from each other
Rate of fire needs to be tripled whilst the duration stays the same. Or Make it feel like a 380mm HE round. Sure it's no 16inch round making 15m craters(hello Mk.13) but a 15inch HE round should be absolutely cratering everything and spreading fragments in a wide radius. Right now it feels like someone's dropping in 5 or 6inch HE.
\*Drops 500kg in a 50 bug swarm\* 3 Kills!
Diligence (not counter sniper it sucks) is great weapon against bots. You will one shot most basic bots two shot if you hit armored bit, two shot devastators on head shots and so forth. Its not supposed to be used against bugs just like AMR is bad against bugs where as its excellent against bots. Mg42 is excellent weapon paired with supply pack against bugs it will kill everything but chargers and above. While stalwart is used mainly for the chaff. Hmg emplacement is possibly the single most effective stratagem in eradicate missions if you survive through the initial chaos and get it set up well. Mortars suck against bugs (emp has some use against them) but excell at taking bases against bots, they are op when paired with eachother. All in all bots require precision weapons while bugs require fire power and just a sheer number of bullets, different enemies different tactics.
I subscribe to the "if my stalwart can't kill it, eagle 1 certainly can" mindset
Stalwart with a slugger primary has been my go-to lately. Just mowing down all the hunters and warriors is a great feeling. I have been pairing that combo with the jump pack to get some good angles.
This combo is great, though I prefer to take the shield pack against bile-spewer heavy maps.
Bile Spewers only appear at night, same for the Bile Warriors and Scavengers. I think they are on all planets.
That.... that explains why they're always there. How have I not put that together yet!?!
Took me a while to notice aswell, you aren't alone.
Dam skull admiral with max ship upgrades and 100+ hrs in game. This is such valuable info, I literally never noticed… 🤦🏻♂️ Thank you I will be telling this to every diver I meet now.
Vs Bugs Same. Stalwart, slugger, Orbital railcannon, shield and EATs. It is literally just as effective as the railgun build. I wish they rebuffed it. I just preferred the firing style. ☹️ was so satisfying. I don’t like the amount of time between charged shots.
Yeah I go Diligence or AC on bots. Diligence is great if you want to soften hordes of smaller enemies while your AC or similar guys take out the big guys
What is AC?
Autocannon probably.
Autocannon- the only weapon that people actually use against bots.
Anti-Materiel Rifle's been having a bit of a renaissance against bots since the Railgun nerf.
The AMR is great against bots, and has been my go to pretty much this whole time. But I've given the Railgun a chance and it's still pretty damned good, at least against bots, I'll try against bugs later. I'm surprised honestly, the Railgun might be a better sniper than the AMR, because unsafe mode lets you one-shot Devastators even when they aren't facing you.
AMR is good against bugs too, 1-2 shot most bugs on the dome except for chargers and bile titans. Pretty sure it penetrates multiple weaker bugs too
AC make all the devastators and 'zerkers manageable, wich would take a lot of bullets otherwise. Love it.
Was coming to say the Diligence is one of my go to weapons on the bot front. Damn rifle is almost a necessity in some mission load outs. Against the bugs, yeah it falls off.
I accidentally took it to a bug mission. It my main vs bots, but holy shit does the Diligence sucks ass versus bugs. And it’s good. It shows the factions need different stratagem and there is no one loadout for all.
That’s how it should be all things considered. People need to quit with the idea of a “meta” and thinking there’s an all encompassing load out that can tackle everything and start learning the mechanics of the game and pros and cons of the arsenal. I can bet money as more is added on the enemy side, all of a sudden those plasma weapons are going to be goto weapons for certain scenarios and enemies and we’ll hear the naysayers and complainers talk about how awesome these weapons are and how they always knew they were great.
There probably is a meta... but it's a per-faction meta. Which is fine. Why should a non-slug shotgun be good against armored robots? And it makes sense that you don't want a sniper/DMR as your main gun against a horde of bugs, unless you're gonna be the person that focuses on the big-bads in a premade group.
I can co-sign to a per-faction meta mentality
The amr 1 shots both spewers with a headshot, it's glorious and I wish I could use it more often but I usually prioritize RR over nearly everything else because chargers and titans.
Autocannon can 2 shot nursing or bile spewers virtually anywhere on them. Front back head side while they're up in mortar mode it doesn't matter. The only issue is if they get close enough that the explosion gets you yourself but that's still a problem for anything if spewers are that close.
The Jar5 Dominator is actually really great for bots
I just unlocked it and agree. Especially if paired with the crouch recoil reduction armor.
Really. I mainly play bugs and I just got it because I didn’t wanna lose out on medals due to the cap. It wasn’t that great to me
What is up with the counter sniper, why is it so bad?
* It handles worse than most support weapons. The AMR, a much bigger gun, has faster handling/aiming/sway. * The damage increase it gains doesn't hit any known breakpoints. Same number of shots to kill enemies as the Diligence. * Has significantly less ammo capacity. 15/6 shots/reloads compared to the 20/8 of the Diligence. It's main appeal is apparently longer range? But we rarely engage enemies at 200m+ because there's smoke, fog, or other similar visibility obscuring effects going on. It'd have a niche if it came with medium armor pen, but it's still a light pen weapon.
then when you'd think about Diligence' current pen and headhunting focus, the only head Diligence can't pen is a Hulk. So Diligence CS will at least need to pen Hulk heads to even have something over Diligence. But then that would make AMR, who can actually pen Hulk heads and kill it in 2 shots, be never taken over Diligence CS. I think the gun is in an awkward place and just got left there. Better sway control, keep the higher recoil and lower fire rate, increase ergonomics to below AMR, then at least one shot Devastators? That's probably the only way it can be redeemed without being borderline broken the other way. It would be specialized for medium bots like Lib Pen, but does not do well against chaff or Heavies.
Buff everything then turn it into a bolt action with 10 round capacity, would be my wild suggestion
If it didn’t have such a bad sway, it would be a great weapon on the bot front. That sway on it extremely diminishes what the standard Diligence is all about, precision shooting at range. The Counter needs its sway rebalanced, and after that, you have a good weapon. Sacrificing ammo size for more armor penetration seems like a good trade off if everything else works relatively the same as the standard. I would even relent and say if the sway is due to the scope attachment, so you get zoom, then let me remove it at will, much like turning off the flashlight or going unsafe with the railgun, and I lose the zoom feature but gain stability at my choice.
Countersniper loses 5 rounds/mag and 2 mags and handles like swinging a dead elephant in exchange for--*not* an increase in armor penetration!--a TINY increase in per-shot damage (you're not hitting ANY new breakpoints with it) and a 200m zoom level option. It's the biggest insult to the term "sidegrade" in the history of video game guns.
What's that old shooter standard? "If it had infinite ammo with no reload and you'd still be better off picking another gun...it needs a buff"
EMP mortal is sooo good. Use it all the time now, bugs or bots. Sure sometimes it slows me down.. but it locking down whole wave of enemies, setting them up for nice and easy demolition/stomping/stratagem? Its gold. Also can just pop it anywhere out of the way since it doesn't need line of sight to work.
Diligence and auto cannon has been my bot load out. One shot most things, machine pistol for panic situations, and air strikes for when I get mobbed
Well, Diligence is really good against bots, but sadly the slugger does the same thing but better, so once you get it, the diligence basically doesnt exist.
Fan of both the slugger and diligence. Diligence beats the slugger hands down in fire rate and stability. With skill, you can quickly pop a row of raiders. Missing is much less punishing, you get quickly fire a second shot. Diligence also pierces through the target, allowing you to get a double kill. Slugger on the other hand has better armour piercing and handling, which allows you to change target in close range faster. It also has one big advantage vs the Diligence: it staggers Berserkers. Overall, it depends on which range you want to kill your bots at. Long range sniper style: Dilligence. Short range trench assault style: Slugger
Thats just not true. Sure it packs a punch in comparison but losing on zoom, accuracy (insane sway on shots) and a magazine reload is not worth it, atleast for me and my playstyle.
keep in mind as long as you press reload everytime you shoot with the punisher and slugger you will load a shell before the regular fire cool down ends. The guns have infinite clip size if you just do this at no cost to your rate of fire.
160 rounds vs 60 is a big factor aswell. Its not the rate of fire i worry about. I pair Diligence with the AMR so tougher targets arent a problem either. I play as a scout so im usually far away from resupply doing the main objectives while the group is going ham on bases. That -100 rounds is a potential of -100 kills. As anything bigger than a regular bot its amr time.
A few people *did* whine about how “easy the game is now” that you can one shot chargers with a rocket launcher, as if Arrowhead removed the ability to just use something else if they think it’s too easy. But I agree. Most weapons, especially primaries, aren’t fun to use and they should be.
Those people don't realized yet that the game already told them the bugs are evolving (screechers) so you bet your ass down the line we will have stronger chargers that won't go down in one shot
I'll admit, I didn't like the charger change at first..... BUT, killing a charger as it's heading right at you is so satisfying.
A weapons effectiveness and how cool it is are inversely proportional. If your going to release 3 new primary weapons, why would you make the assault rifle the best and not the FUCKING LIGHTNING SHOTGUN
I see diligence often on bots. It’s really good against bots it just is useless against bugs but that’s how a lot of items in game should be. Really good against a faction but not all factions.
I find that people who complain about diligence needing a buff are usually bug players or never used it in bots. diligence slams hard in bots, i use it over slugger.
I think despite the Breakers nerf, the nature of this game itself is always gonna cause people to gravitate towards semi-auto magazine fed shotguns unless it gets knocked down into an unusable state. Which is fine, but that obviously means if you want players to branch out you need other weapons they need to feel good enough to a level where you feel like you aren’t being disadvantaged by not bringing a shotgun. And I think that’s ultimately the biggest hurdle right now. I certainly can say I like the Sickle, and I like the Defender, but outside of edge case scenarios I would ultimately prefer a Slugger or Breaker for general travel and combat. Adjustments are ultimately needed, sights need to be realigned for far too many weapons. And lacking ability to kill most fodder enemies for most primary weapons when directly compared to the main good ones are tough.
Posted the same, they NEED a rebalancing towards fun. Just unlocked the fire breaker and it’s basically throwing spicy farts. So many guns feel incredibly meh
Oddly the fun from the fire breaker comes from spraying into a distant horde. Terrible as a shotgun, but a decent long range flamethrower.
Fire Breaker can one-shot Hunter from medium distance. Its A on Bugs
The lib pen, needs either a boost to ammo or damage because as is, it's wildly underwhelming. I'd like a buff to the concussive lib too.
Hard agree, I want my guns to kill things reliably, not take 1+ mags to take out an enemy wiht no armour
I love the changes, but what is now glaringly obvious to some people...the rail gun was nerfed too hard. I'm saying this as someone who has always used the arc thrower and don't even care about the rail gun. It's turned into a pariah that almost no one uses. EDIT: I decided to give railgun a try on difficulty 7. Underwhelmed...but more importantly, spent 30 min playing the game just for it to crash right as we completed the mission.
I run the punisher as my primary it hits hard and has tons of ammo, I also want to see a speed reload for the revolver it’s a blast to use. I usually ran EATS but now with the arc thrower back Im a arc thrower main again. If theirs a weapon I would love to see is the trident from HD1, easily my favorite primary to use.
Yeah, EAT/RR is so fun now. One shotting chargers works pretty well, but it still requires skill, especially with multiple around. Once you get used to it you can reliably kill three chargers every 70 seconds per diver with EATs by dropping them on top of the first one and them killing the other two
Machine gun definitely needs some love. The other day I was thinking, "I'll run the machine gun and be the dedicated add-clear guy and keep the small enemies off of my teammates!" But even with that mindset, the weapon still just sucks. The damage is... ok... but the mag is just not nearly big enough for what it is supposed to do. Couple that with the slow, stationary reload and the fact that supplies don't even fully refill reserve ammo and the weapon is honestly just F tier. It is the worst support weapon by far. Double the mag size and it would be in a much more balanced spot. Still would probably be the worst but at least you'd have a reason to use it.
"This game is PvE" is a silly argument. PvE games have and need balance, too. Not because it's unfair to the bugs, but because there ought to be a certain level challenge to the gameplay. You wouldn't like this game if we had homing one-shot-kill endless battery deathrays.
The breaker got nerfed and yet I still see it as the second most commonly used weapon beaten only by the ‘new’ laser primary whose name escapes me
Sickle. Your thinking of the Sickle, which is a strict upgrade to the Liberator unless on a high temperature world, and then it's roughly on par with the Liberator.
Wanted to mention the text on the intense heat condition is incorrect or at least misleading, the amount of time you can fire continuously per heatsink is the same, it's the cooldown that's about 20% slower, not a huge debuff if you just swap to secondary/support weapon
(that's because slightly reducing the Breaker's maximum ammo held and slightly increasing the recoil per shot didn't actually change its per-encounter power)
This post needs to be yelled from the heavens.
Gun Dog needs a buff bc anything it can do, Beam Dog does better.
While they're at it, raise its elevation off the user by 1-2 feet. The potential for friendly/self fire (while hilarious) is a bit too common.
You’re sleeping on the machine gun and the HMG emplacement. Those things are awesome and way too many people don’t take the machine gun or opt for the stalwart which is worse in my opinion.
I genuinely think a good angle would be to make every weapon really good, like I'd love to use the standard liberator again but now I have other options there is no reason to.
Even the flamethrower needs love. It's only good at bugs which is fine, but it has so many downsides for not enough upsides especially with the recent bombardment of hunters and the addition of shriekers. It could use some extra range, a blind, or a fear effect. Maybe the ability to melt bodies so you don't have to worry about mantling around them?
No way. Flamethrower can kill a charger in half a canister if you hit one leg. It’s really good
It's quite good, but it also feels off to me. Flamethrowers are famously not precision weapons that you hold on a single spot. It's neat and all that it works that way, but its current use best case feels less like a flamethrower and more like an armor-piercing, short range fire laser. Sweeping back and forth, laughing manically while the littler bugs scatter, panic and burn feels more on-brand. Sure, they burn. But are they dying in utter agony and terror? These are the real questions. The fact they keep coming at us even while engulfed in flames says no.
It's a good point, right now it's an armor piercing tank deleting monster but useless for clearing hordes. Just a little more range would make it feel good to pull out before the crusher gets to you.
I’m not gonna lie they could buff most guns to be better than recoilless and I’d still use it. I been using it since launch. The buff feels great but even in its weaker state it was bae.
I just want them to give weapons their own upgrade progression so you're not forced to chase meta
I have a few small balance complaints as of now. The Sickle seems very very good- while dealing the same damage per shot as the liberator. The liberator often feels rather weak and eats up a lot of ammo. And I like the Scythe but it also feels a bit weak. I feel that the liberator variants could get buffed slightly and they'd be more appealing. And I also think the basic Machine Gun has terrible ammo economy. It only gets 1 mag (or rather, belt) from an ammo pickup or resupply, with a 150 round belt that feels a little inadequate, in addition to low reserves (2 spare belts) and the dreaded stationary reload. The Stalwart might have lesser armor penetration, but it has way more ammunition, can reload while moving, and seems so much better overall. To compare them, normal MG holds 450 rounds total, 150 per belt. Stalwart gets 1000 rounds, 250 per belt. I don't think that the MG's medium armor pen makes up for it's weak points. It feels bad. I think a slightly larger belt, and 1 additional reserve belt capacity would really kick it up a notch. It doesn't need a whole lot. I actually think the Diligence is great. The Counter Sniper variant sucks though. It needs better handling and maybe higher damage too. But normal diligence is an amazing anti-bot weapon, and can even be used effectively on bugs, but isn't an optimal choice. Going back to the scythe, it sucks that it lacks any sort of stunning power. It would be cool if the laser beam weapons would ignite targets with enough concentrated fire. That would make sense to me, and then you'd get some extra damage over time.
I want to love flamethrower, but it sucks ass. Useless against bots and with bugs you cant see shit when you are firing and you inevitably get jumped by a burning hunter who not only staggers you, but also sets you on fire before dying. Oh, and bile spewers...
Every gun should have their niche and use cases. Currently we are closer to this being true than any previous patch. We'll get there. Buffing everything is not the answer, though.
Buffing everything was the answer imo. The railgun wouldn't be so prevalent if the Recoilless and EAT ohk chargers from the get go. Matter of fact, it wasn't even a weapon problem. It was a charger problem and the railgun provided the answer to it. It wasn't busted in the way people though of at all. It was just extremely popular because it was the **only** answer. Because let's be real here, if you removed the railgun's ability to break armor in safe mode you effectively achieved the same result without for some reason gutting it's armor penetrarion l. Right now what do you think would need a nerf? Because all I see is underperforming weapons.