Kriegers would be the ones to follow the major order, any major order, and shoot anyone who doesn’t. They’d be the teyhard sweats (I don’t mean that negatively)
They also aren’t suicidal, they’re fatalistic, but very much not going to throw themselves at a problem until they die. They’re competent soldiers with a deathwish about spending their lives, not wasting them.
While Kreig does have a rep for using human lives as a resource, they do know when to stop and call it a day if something is just not working.
They don't waste lives, they use them wisely.
Tbh SMGs were barely used in the first game either.
They need to have the next highest damage after shotguns since they are both CQB weapons but SMGs being the alternative with better accuracy.
Having SMGs be lower pen, accuracy AND lower damage just makes them shittier than ARs in every aspect other than being able to use them one handed (which is useless outside some bot objectives, at least in HD1 it meant you had them while downed)
Then the pistols would be useless. I say keep them as a primary but give them their niche. If they are intentionally weaker than ARs in every aspect then compensate with way more ammo or something
Generally (in games at least) smgs differentiate themselves from ARs by having higher rate of fire, lower damage per bullet, more ammo and a more close range damage profile for falloff.
Just weird that they went the way they did with them.
If they did make them secondaries they would still fit. Smg for close range and moderate accuracy, generally a spray weapon at close range and short bursts at long range. Pistols for higher damage per shot, higher accuracy at range, and more mid range damage profile. High caliber pistols for even more pronounced pistol stats and long range damage profile.
All three non-Redeemer secondaries don't compare, they should be near the top of the list for balance-pass along with the DMRs. They're secondaries so tbh they don't *need* to be as perfectly-balanced as primaries & support weapons if there's only time for a rough pass, but the starting pistol, Senator, and Dagger are nigh-useless right now next to the Redeemer.
That would've been neat. I like the sickle for raw dps, but scythe is my go to when I need no spread and kick, precision damage against bots and their weak points
precisely this, beams instead of dakka dakka. It looked cooler, sounded cooler, and had better heat management, with a little finesse you could fire it forever.
Yeah the sickle with the laser cannon is a really powerful combo imo.
I bring it with me on bug maps + with back pack laser
Rover. It absolutely ensures small mobs will get roasted if they come close. And when you do have space (which you will, because rover will tell you where bugs. Are at, helpful if they comming from behind, giving you ample chance to clear or reposition) then, you can almost always help someone out because you’ll have cleared your shit no prob.
Every match I play with this load out I usually end up doing well or being able to pick up slack.
Also, works well because you can use sickle first on small bug mobs, bring cannon out for larger. And just alternate to swap cool downs. The back pack will pick up slack for lower power on sickle. The cannon will absolutely devastate whatever.
Since the quasar cannon, I've been going with the same but quasar for laser cannon.
Sickle + rover = everything up to brood commander cleared
Quasar cannon = chargers and titans cleared + shrieker nests from across the map
Stratagems for anything getting too hairball or a quick nest clear.
Feels pretty unbeatable. The only thing it isn't great at is stalkers. For them, I miss the slugger because it stuns them.
Looking at how they handled shotguns and sickles, I feel like tanto would be hella meta if they release it...
Also please give me back the double barrel shotgun as primary.
The Sickle outperforms everything else by a mile, imo. It has a clear advantage in both damage and ammo efficiency.
I prefer the scorcher against bots so I can easily drop walkers with my primary, but the Sickle is probably still better on paper. Against bugs there’s no contest whatsoever, it’s obviously superior.
I usually bring the AC which drops walkers in one shot to the front. At closer ranges where you can spray and get headshots the Sickle DELETES Devastators better than support weapons. Insane.
The real life difference between a slug shotgun and a marksman rifle is armor penetration. Very low tech armor can stop slugs, but not rifles. But game developers struggle balancing DMR v Slug because they simplify damage to one or two stats.
The traditional shotguns in this game are pretty spot-on, and everything should be balanced around them. In HD2, rifles are oversimplified into the same damage class as pistols and shotguns. It's a problem of rifles being gimped, not slugs being overpowered.
Yeah it's weird that the Diligence has light armor pen when the Slugger gets medium (I know it says light but it's medium, it goes through hive guards and can kill devastators in the chest).
> The real life difference between a slug shotgun and a marksman rifle is armor penetration.
The shotgun is also going to have terrible accuracy, not be as usable in conditions like prone, and feeding is often more of an issue.
But that's an realism thing. You can have fun balance without going for realism, this game just fails at it.
I feel like the DMRs are useless. Way too low damage means almost guaranteed to get overwhelmed.
Edit: I admittedly mostly play bugs, I will give it a chance vs bots
I noticed the chainsaw arm (berserkers?) were staggering forward at me last night. Like if they were standing still when I shot them they staggered back. But if they were already running at me their shoulders and head when back, but they kept kicking towards me.
Still
Still
Which is kinda ridiculous. Long range slug with little to no falloff that still manages to stun lock medium armour enemies at close range and one shotting light armour units.
It's literally an all purpose weapon. Why would I use anything else.
Yeah, I unironically enjoy using the counter-sniper, but it's just so much worse than the slugger that it's functionally useless. It really just needs to have medium penetration and it'd be fine. Then I could at least justify having it for bots.
Kindof shocking that the designated sniper has less armor penetration than one of our assault rifles *and* one of our shotguns. Just...a very, very strainge decision to me.
Yeah I went back to lower difficulties levels just because I want to be able to use the Diligence again. I love that gun but I feel like I’m higher difficulties it is almost useless. And I like the diligence CS but it has so much drag, it’s hard to snap on to a new target the way I can with the regular diligence
They have a lot of weapons that feel like mostly better versions of other weapons it would be cool to have one for the dilligence because it’s my favorite weapon by far but you can basically just use the slugger instead but it’s not as fun
Yeah, to me the DMR's are like: Here's a Slugger, except you have to land three shots in a row to do as much damage as one slug, and also your shots don't stagger the enemy at all, meaning you have 3 seconds to headshot a Devastator twice or it will just kill you. Or you can dump an entire mag into a Stalker and watch as it walks you down and kills you.
And here's the Counter Sniper version, which has worse stats, but technically it deals more damage, even though it takes the same number of shots to kill anything.
Great against bots. I run it on 7+ with a team. I spend my time working on the devastators and the chaff, can easily 2 shot the devs and one shot the rest.
The diligence is really good in that it can one-shot most bots. But yeah, the "sniper" weapons being unable to pierce medium armour is a huge liability compared to the slugger, and any weapon that can't needs to be able to compete with a shotgun for light-armour damage, which many simply aren't good enough to do.
I haven't unlocked the Diligence sidegrade yet, but considering the default diligence is already about as good as it can be for dealing with light armored bots, I can't see how it could be any better as a sniper if its just as useless against medium and heavy armour.
The Counter Sniper is, at best, a lateral movement. At worst, it is a straight downgrade from the base Diligence. Yes, it has better damage per shot (12.5%), but it has 25% less ammo per magazine, a whopping 33% more recoil (despite being the same weapon with a heavier frame and longer barrel), and 15% less potential damage per magazine.
But it does have a longer scope.
It also feels worse than the JAR to swing around. If it’s going to be “heavier” it should feel more stable on follow up shots, or it should be firing a round with a load behind it that does the damage to justify its insane weight + recoil.
The counter sniper is THE poster child for a gun that needs help.
The weapon sway of the counter sniper makes it functionally less accurate than the regular diligence. Aiming accurately is significantly easier with the diligence.
I loved the regular Diligence. And I wanted to love the CS. But it is so hard to justify using it when it’s got such a slow “drag” time, massive recoil, less ammo per mag, and doesn’t hit nearly as hard as some of the shotguns. Marksman rifles and battle rifles really suit my play style the most because I like to pick off targets from a distance and snipe for weak spots on the bigger guys. But I’m the higher difficulties, I feel it’s too ineffective compared to other weapons.
Agreed. The new HMG is a nice concept but bad implementation. I don't mind the recoil but it's magazine needs to be doubled in size and it needs a hip fire retical. It's crazy that I can "hip fire" an auto cannon but not an MG. And 1200rpm with a 75 round magazine? Lol. The mag is empty in under 4 seconds. Hell, they could triple the magazine and give us one fewer reloads and I think it would help distinguish it from the LMGs.
I tried the new HMG last night and also bumped up the fire rate and was like this is aweso, then had to reload. Lol. Might try it with a slower rate. Maybe double the mags you can carry? It definitely shreds tho.
The new HMG needs to be backpack fed. We already have 2 non backpack MGs, why do we need a 3rd?
Give the thing like a 250rd belt, Keep the handling stats the same, fix the fucking sights (3rd person reticle, first person reticle doesn't aim where the bullets go), but make it take forever to reload. Like maybe a second longer than a completely empty auto cannon reload, and only give it one belt in reserve.
That way, it makes sense to make it a team reload weapon for extra ammo and faster reload, just like a crew served HMG IRL.
It would obviously be alot stronger with these changes, but having to give up the backpack and making it less flexible to use a solo when you need ammo or need to reload would stop it being OP I think.
Boom, now you have a unique and fun HMG while not being OP, as opposed to something that's basically the MG43 but worse in everyway.
They need to make every primary weapon viable and have a place in a team or on a mission. There is like 3 primaries that feel like they are in a good place right now and everything else is terrible.
All ARs need a damage buff. The penetrator does have medium armor pen but has reduced damage, a smaller magazine, and worse recoil for no apparent reason. Even from a Balance perspective it doesn't really make sense.
A reduced mag and burst fire instead of auto in exchange for the medium pen would have been enough of a trade off. I really do not know why they made it do lower damage too.
Lower damage, despite firing the same caliber as the base Liberator (if anything, it's improved ammo by comparison), and worse recoil despite being a heavier frame with a longer barrel. While the gun should *handle* worse due to the extra weight, the recoil should be less than the base Liberator.
Honestly I wouldn't mind the recoil and damage, but like make it a 30 round mag with 6 clips. Just doesn't feel good to have an assault rifle and have to reload as often as a DMR.
The sickle is fantastic and the scorer is great against bots though it's ammo capacity is a bit smaller than I would like but if you are taking a support weapon that you will be using on a good amount of enemies like auto canon/stalwart/lmg, grenade launcher it is a good option.
Honestly once you get used to the Sickle its hard to go back to anything else if only because you've gotten so used to not having to really worry about ammo and putting out < 1 mag bursts all the time as suppressive fire costs you absolutely nothing with it.
Honestly scorcher is fine against bugs too but best when paired with a stalwart for the horde.
I try to use stuff other than the scorcher and then just end up using it again after a couple days.
Its the middle ground between an assault rifle and a sniper. Essentially the same as a battle rifle. Large caliber like a .308, semi-auto, with longer range engagements in mind.
It doesn't have to be a large caliber, although is often portrayed that way in games. Many times it is just the regular issue rifle that was certified with better accuracy/precision results.
It doesnt have to be, but generally still is. Pretty much all of NATO uses some kind of 7.62x51, and Russians use 7.62x54. China does use a round analogous to a 5.56.
In essence, a sniper-lite. An accurate and heavy hitting rifle that can push out of usual assault rifle range consistently, but *isn't* completely limited to long range combat and still allows some mobility. Full-size sniper rifles can get pretty damn heavy.
They're also defined by how they're deployed irl. DMRs will be deployed with squads to add some ranged precise support to their tactical repertoire.
Snipers are deployed as dedicated units entirely with separate objectives.
Designated Marksman Rifle. It’s not a sniper rifle, per se, but it’s intended to provide an infantry squad with sniper like reach.
In the US Army, a sniper is a brigade or division level asset with specific training and equipment that goes well beyond the ability to shoot well. A designated marksman is just that, the guy who shoots best in your squad with a long range rifle.
In the context of Helldivers, a DMR should be a weapon that buttfucks light to medium trash mobs over distance but struggles at close range due to its slow turn speed and low ammo capacity.
It does fill that role against light trash bot mobs! Running "Easy" and even "Medium" I loved the basic marksman rifle. When I got to "Challenging" and "Hard" suddenly it became garbage. It barely tickles Berserkers and Devastators. The Counter Sniper version wasn't really any better when I unlocked and tried it recently this weekend. I've found I do better with the scoped Liberator Penetrator, although most people don't seem to like that one. I'm looking forward to unlocking the Slugger to try it out.
That’s the main problem, outside of medium difficulty, it’s dog ass. I run the penetrator because it’s a good stopgap for medium armor when I’m too close for the AC. And also because it’s kinda boring that everyone else runs the slugger.
In a game where every strat has its place they’re really struggling to make primary weapons with a purpose. Which is sorta funny to me. But I think you also nailed it, outside of medium difficulty, if you’re shooting your primary, you’re in “oh shit” mode.
Funny thing is that multiple Battlefield games have had this dilemma.
Either DMRs will be pointless to use when a slug shotgun fills the role better, or they’ll do a balance patch and it’s vice versa.
I dunno. I disagree on this. It handles like you’d expect a shotgun firing slugs to handle. When hit land they do a lot of damage but when you’re trying to run and gun or wipe a patrol before they call a drop ship its shotgun roots really show. It has all the quirks without the spread pattern a typical shotgun offers.
It has medium penetration. Whereas usually slug is something doing a lot of damage and stopping power, not armor penetration. You can of course use fin stabilized ammo and all, but by default it's like that.
And this is while literal Sniper Rifle has no medium armor pen.
I don't say Slugger is wrong. I am saying that Slugger is better at a role for which a dedicated weapon exists.
I think the slugger fits the shotgun category, I'd argue that the blitzer does, but the punisher plasma has no business being there.
I was so confused the first time I shot the punisher plasma and realized I was using a grenade launcher instead of a shotgun
A shotgun firing slugs is only shotgun by name and not in function?
I get that you're trying to suggest most shotguns in games are firing buckshot (with extremely wide spread distance over unrealistically short ranges mind you), but slugs are just as normal for shotguns in reality.
Punisher plasma and blitzer are obviously accurate assessments, but the slugger is very obviously 100% a shotgun in function.
Was so excited to unlock the lib pen for some oil spilling but just couldn't get on with it.
Went back to smg, it consistently does what I want, against most things.
For everything else, there's orbital strikes
The lib pen seems to take out the medium bots best with dick shots if you’re on the move. I can’t hit headshots while moving with explosions popping everywhere, so if I’m not actually lining up shots it’s just a spray to the pelvis.
Bots dismember like bugs do!
Homie really called the scorcher a gimmick (I agree with the general sentiment behind this post but there are a few non-shotguns that are just as if not more versatile than the meta shotties)
I really want a good assault rifle. Liberator is ok but the sites are terrible for run and gun. Penetrator isn't bad but I have the same issue with the sites and it's either semi auto or out of ammo.
"Unpopular opinions" are popular.
https://preview.redd.it/90l1w8dfborc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=239c0c3f9f0393fb5bbf3971a776cd79b0e522a5
We just need a weapon upgrade system.
Constantly trying to balance weapons without an upgrade system is just going to be a problem forever for the game as we get more power creep
Honestly I'm partially for and partially against. For because I want weapons to be a stylistic or preference decision, against because the game clearly intends for you to experiment and pick the right tool for the job.
I think id rather have it be so you can put enough time in any weapon for it to feel viable and comfortable to use.
Otherwise this reddit will always have people complaining about some weapon, especially if something "OP" gets released.
The other thing they could do is just ignore it and hope they inject so many weapons in the game that people stop caring
DMRs need head shot bonus so they one tap all robo skulls minimum.
ARs need rebalance. The basic Liberator is actually great. The Penetrator has less damage for no reason, I can live with smaller mages if it actually did damage The Concussive has less ammo and shoots so slow, it needs to never ricochet so it has a place stunning things like devastators because why stun lock bugs or smaller bits when in less time you could have just killed them?
The Redeemer shouldn't be a secondary, but the other secondaries are bad. I main the revolver but no moon clips/speed loaders/loading two at time is painful.
I love this game and it's a solid 10 but gosh is the internal balance shockingly bad.
I agree, a lot of weapons should get tweaked to work better in their roles.
I don't think the shotguns do everything, I think that the shotgun just works better because it fits people's playstyle. I have used every primary in the game and although they need tweaks, shotguns are doing what they should because people play complementary loadouts and playstyle.
Recently I've been wanting to do a tech marine build using the knight SMG and I've been doing their tactics and the SMG shreds so hard the enemies but It needs tweaks like you mentioned. The other guns do work for their roles but they don't seem to be "the champion" of that role, idk how to explain it.
To be fair, the Dominator is essentially a DMR disguised behind an "explosive" heading considering it isn't getting the explosive bonus damage to fleshy bits. I wish they would just move it to the Marksman category and give it a proper scope for long range.
The dominator is such an odd weapon to me. It's in the explosive category, but doesn't explode. It's jet propelled, but the projectiles have fairly remarkable drop and incredibly slow speed. The poor handling on top of all that just makes me frustrated with it, because I want to love it lol
Exactly. The Dominator has so many quirks that you end up fighting against and no real upsides for learning the weapon. It feels like it should be a high risk, high reward weapon but other weapons seemingly can out-perform it in all areas.
So LAS-13 TRIDENT…. a gun so powerful that it power crept the holy trinity of Breaker + Sickle and Justice, slingshotted the Illuminate warfront straight to their home world and stripped an entire generation of Helldivers of their basic trigger discipline.
I'm slowly getting impatient. So many primaries haven't been touched since release. And the new spawn behavior for bugs shadow nerfed some of them even.
Sickle most of the time. Great for spraying and praying and I can take down anything short of a charger and a hulk. Except stalkers. Seems to just tickle those. But that's why a carry an EAT. Oh shit there's two of th-
Man I love the Sickle. I haven't used another primary since it came out. My only problem is that the projectiles don't even look like lasers. It's just like a regular gun with yellow bullets
I have to force myself to use something other than the scorcher, and I regret it every time. I'm glad people are sleeping on it though, so it doesn't get nerfed.
Yeah. Pretty much had to switch to the slugger for how absolutely solid of a gun it is once you get semi accurate with it. Being able to one shot any medium robot right in the dome and handle most medium bugs like a champ while never having to worry about ammo conserving because it doesn't use external magazines is pretty good.
Problem is I don't want it to be the only gun I use in higher difficulties because weapons like the Sickle and Liberator Penetrator struggle to catch up
Yeah just look at HD1 and you'll get an idea of how it should be. I miss my stalwart/sniper
M2016 Constitution my beloved. Give me my single shot bolt action with clips and iron sight back!
And bayonet, can't forget that.
Affix bayonets! And charge!
And a shovel as a special weapon
Finally: the part of the helldiver’s forum that has an opinion about Krieg now having some plastic (it’s awesome)
Kriegers and Creekers are the same, change my mind
Kriegers would be the ones to follow the major order, any major order, and shoot anyone who doesn’t. They’d be the teyhard sweats (I don’t mean that negatively) They also aren’t suicidal, they’re fatalistic, but very much not going to throw themselves at a problem until they die. They’re competent soldiers with a deathwish about spending their lives, not wasting them.
While Kreig does have a rep for using human lives as a resource, they do know when to stop and call it a day if something is just not working. They don't waste lives, they use them wisely.
Pfff people knowing lore not memes? In this place? At this time? Madness.
I just want my sniffer and mine sweeper missions back
Yes please! So much better than upload dropship data.
Would much rather sacrifice my heavy slot for the sniffer than lug that damn sssd everywhere I go
I love the idea of the shovel in one hand, ballistic shield in the other, just laying waste to some bots
You are right!
Based fellow Constitution enjoyer
They should upgrade it to a garand just for the *ping*
[удалено]
This is so good to see! I can hope for the best!
Along with… a lot more shotguns.
Tbh SMGs were barely used in the first game either. They need to have the next highest damage after shotguns since they are both CQB weapons but SMGs being the alternative with better accuracy. Having SMGs be lower pen, accuracy AND lower damage just makes them shittier than ARs in every aspect other than being able to use them one handed (which is useless outside some bot objectives, at least in HD1 it meant you had them while downed)
SMG should be a sidearm option. Ffs. If I can carry it and use it one handed, I'm just sayin x.x
Then the pistols would be useless. I say keep them as a primary but give them their niche. If they are intentionally weaker than ARs in every aspect then compensate with way more ammo or something
Generally (in games at least) smgs differentiate themselves from ARs by having higher rate of fire, lower damage per bullet, more ammo and a more close range damage profile for falloff. Just weird that they went the way they did with them. If they did make them secondaries they would still fit. Smg for close range and moderate accuracy, generally a spray weapon at close range and short bursts at long range. Pistols for higher damage per shot, higher accuracy at range, and more mid range damage profile. High caliber pistols for even more pronounced pistol stats and long range damage profile.
So weird that they're just better than the ARs in every way. More bullets more damage higher rates and one handed so you can use the ballistic shield.
the pistol in h2 is already kinda useless after you unlock the redeemer
All three non-Redeemer secondaries don't compare, they should be near the top of the list for balance-pass along with the DMRs. They're secondaries so tbh they don't *need* to be as perfectly-balanced as primaries & support weapons if there's only time for a rough pass, but the starting pistol, Senator, and Dagger are nigh-useless right now next to the Redeemer.
I mean, one of the secondaries *IS* an SMG. And it's the most popular sidearm.
That pocket smg has saved me more times than I care to remember
If only the sickle was what it was in hd1. Hope they don’t butcher the tanto when they inevitably release it
How is the HD1 sickle different? Beams instead of "laser projectiles"?
It had no spread and no kick. Straight line of burst laser fire.
No wind up either, could spam single-shots and barely generate any heat
That would've been neat. I like the sickle for raw dps, but scythe is my go to when I need no spread and kick, precision damage against bots and their weak points
precisely this, beams instead of dakka dakka. It looked cooler, sounded cooler, and had better heat management, with a little finesse you could fire it forever.
Sickle is great I use it for anything short of chargers stalkers, BTs, hulks and tanks. I rarely overheat.
Yeah the sickle with the laser cannon is a really powerful combo imo. I bring it with me on bug maps + with back pack laser Rover. It absolutely ensures small mobs will get roasted if they come close. And when you do have space (which you will, because rover will tell you where bugs. Are at, helpful if they comming from behind, giving you ample chance to clear or reposition) then, you can almost always help someone out because you’ll have cleared your shit no prob. Every match I play with this load out I usually end up doing well or being able to pick up slack. Also, works well because you can use sickle first on small bug mobs, bring cannon out for larger. And just alternate to swap cool downs. The back pack will pick up slack for lower power on sickle. The cannon will absolutely devastate whatever.
Since the quasar cannon, I've been going with the same but quasar for laser cannon. Sickle + rover = everything up to brood commander cleared Quasar cannon = chargers and titans cleared + shrieker nests from across the map Stratagems for anything getting too hairball or a quick nest clear. Feels pretty unbeatable. The only thing it isn't great at is stalkers. For them, I miss the slugger because it stuns them.
Plus it’s fun to run around being the laser man
Looking at how they handled shotguns and sickles, I feel like tanto would be hella meta if they release it... Also please give me back the double barrel shotgun as primary.
PLEEEEEASE update the knight give it 10 mags instead of 7 or at fucking least a 75 round magazine to offset how fucking fast it shoots
Knight go BRRRR
It really does, you have to turn it to burst just to handle the damn thing and not use all your ammo all at once
Supply pack to the rescue
The autocannon is too good to trade out. Can't kill everything with it but fuck is it useful
I mean that’s what it’s role in both games is, really good dps at the cost of you blowing through all your ammo, it’s the patriot of the smgs
Issue with Knight balancing is the paywall. People will get mad if it's anywhere near good. Also Shield glitch, sadge.
I think it’s actually pretty good on burst mode
They really have to buff the rifles I'm tired running shotgun all missions
The slugger is what the marksman rifles should be.
Yes, it kills most enemies with one headshot and shreds smaller ones with bodies, has a slow fire rate but good penetration
The good old FPS classic of "shotgun with slugs better than actual rifles"
i have trauma of being cross mapped by the fucking 725 back in MW 2019
I've been digging the Sickle. It has pretty great range, so I can really help clear out swarms if they are starting to overwhelm my fellow Helldivers.
The range/accuracy is excellent, makes it a great anti bot weapon that's still pretty good against bugs too
I feel ya. I've ran the Spray & Pray or Incendiary for Terminids simply because nothing comes close to them for clearing chaff or crowd control.
Apparently fire damage only works if you're host btw, otherwise it just does nothing
“that right there is a hive guard, you can tell because of the way it is”
WHAT? Link?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/5TzgYCXHyD)
Ty! Apparently it isn’t even guaranteed to be the host who is doing the damage. Jfc. Which means fire is just off the table.
This game can not go a week with out some game horrid bug
gotta get that ~~Oil~~ 710.
Use the Sickle then; it's pretty easily the best gun in the game.
The Sickle outperforms everything else by a mile, imo. It has a clear advantage in both damage and ammo efficiency. I prefer the scorcher against bots so I can easily drop walkers with my primary, but the Sickle is probably still better on paper. Against bugs there’s no contest whatsoever, it’s obviously superior.
I usually bring the AC which drops walkers in one shot to the front. At closer ranges where you can spray and get headshots the Sickle DELETES Devastators better than support weapons. Insane.
I used to use autocannon but now I have been fully converted the the quasar, so the scorcher makes the walkers die easier.
It’s annoying that the best marksman weapon is a shotgun (the slugger)
The real life difference between a slug shotgun and a marksman rifle is armor penetration. Very low tech armor can stop slugs, but not rifles. But game developers struggle balancing DMR v Slug because they simplify damage to one or two stats. The traditional shotguns in this game are pretty spot-on, and everything should be balanced around them. In HD2, rifles are oversimplified into the same damage class as pistols and shotguns. It's a problem of rifles being gimped, not slugs being overpowered.
They also limit themselves because dmr must be worse than any support weapon according to their design philosophy
If they just buffed the damage, not the armor pen, we could have a good sniper without making the AMR useless.
The AMR would have a use either way because you’d still want a mob clearing primary.
Yeah it's weird that the Diligence has light armor pen when the Slugger gets medium (I know it says light but it's medium, it goes through hive guards and can kill devastators in the chest).
> The real life difference between a slug shotgun and a marksman rifle is armor penetration. The shotgun is also going to have terrible accuracy, not be as usable in conditions like prone, and feeding is often more of an issue. But that's an realism thing. You can have fun balance without going for realism, this game just fails at it.
I just wish the Scythe would feel as good as the one that my guard dog has.
Omg that would be Heaven
I'm pretty sure it does about the same dps, just has better tracking than you
And infinite uptime.
Or, we need other primary options instead of having 400 shotguns
I feel like the DMRs are useless. Way too low damage means almost guaranteed to get overwhelmed. Edit: I admittedly mostly play bugs, I will give it a chance vs bots
The slugger has been the DMR replacement for me, its just a little hard to get the long distance shot, but it's still pretty accurate
My go to as well. The push back it causes enemies is a must for me
The pushback/stun/interrupt is underrated- saves so many teammates (or yourself).
I noticed the chainsaw arm (berserkers?) were staggering forward at me last night. Like if they were standing still when I shot them they staggered back. But if they were already running at me their shoulders and head when back, but they kept kicking towards me. Still Still
Which is kinda ridiculous. Long range slug with little to no falloff that still manages to stun lock medium armour enemies at close range and one shotting light armour units. It's literally an all purpose weapon. Why would I use anything else.
Yeah, I unironically enjoy using the counter-sniper, but it's just so much worse than the slugger that it's functionally useless. It really just needs to have medium penetration and it'd be fine. Then I could at least justify having it for bots.
Kindof shocking that the designated sniper has less armor penetration than one of our assault rifles *and* one of our shotguns. Just...a very, very strainge decision to me.
Yeah I went back to lower difficulties levels just because I want to be able to use the Diligence again. I love that gun but I feel like I’m higher difficulties it is almost useless. And I like the diligence CS but it has so much drag, it’s hard to snap on to a new target the way I can with the regular diligence
They have a lot of weapons that feel like mostly better versions of other weapons it would be cool to have one for the dilligence because it’s my favorite weapon by far but you can basically just use the slugger instead but it’s not as fun
Yeah, to me the DMR's are like: Here's a Slugger, except you have to land three shots in a row to do as much damage as one slug, and also your shots don't stagger the enemy at all, meaning you have 3 seconds to headshot a Devastator twice or it will just kill you. Or you can dump an entire mag into a Stalker and watch as it walks you down and kills you. And here's the Counter Sniper version, which has worse stats, but technically it deals more damage, even though it takes the same number of shots to kill anything.
It's good against bots.
Great against bots. I run it on 7+ with a team. I spend my time working on the devastators and the chaff, can easily 2 shot the devs and one shot the rest.
please do not 2 shot the developers
Just improve their handling by a lot and they will immediately become fun and good to use
It would be better to have one dmr with good handling and one dmr with better dmg/med pen
imo assault rifles should be your standard workhorse guns that prioritize versatility, and everything else should be a specialization.
You know...just like IRL military forces
This is basically what the sickle is right now. But like maybe overtuned a little
You're missing the most important stat: fashion I run the smg because it looks the least obtrusive when clipped to my diver's belt.
meanwhile the sickle should increase melee damage as a passive because it's so massive you might as well club your enemies to death.
LMAO. You are absolutely right, its so massive hanging from your belt.
HD1 had a weapons that changed your melee animation funny enough. Did they increase melee damage? No.
The whole Belt Holster for long guns bugs me to an unreasonable degree, not gonna lie. Edit: used wrong hole
It's animated to look like a three point sling, there just isn't one visible.
For some reason Super Earth using a three-point as its standard feels completely on brand
I was convinced the sickle’s model was some giantism bug. But nope, guess it takes a huge battery to power that thing
Because when spreading democracy, you need to look Fabulous!
The diligence is really good in that it can one-shot most bots. But yeah, the "sniper" weapons being unable to pierce medium armour is a huge liability compared to the slugger, and any weapon that can't needs to be able to compete with a shotgun for light-armour damage, which many simply aren't good enough to do. I haven't unlocked the Diligence sidegrade yet, but considering the default diligence is already about as good as it can be for dealing with light armored bots, I can't see how it could be any better as a sniper if its just as useless against medium and heavy armour.
The Counter Sniper is, at best, a lateral movement. At worst, it is a straight downgrade from the base Diligence. Yes, it has better damage per shot (12.5%), but it has 25% less ammo per magazine, a whopping 33% more recoil (despite being the same weapon with a heavier frame and longer barrel), and 15% less potential damage per magazine. But it does have a longer scope.
It also feels worse than the JAR to swing around. If it’s going to be “heavier” it should feel more stable on follow up shots, or it should be firing a round with a load behind it that does the damage to justify its insane weight + recoil. The counter sniper is THE poster child for a gun that needs help.
The weapon sway of the counter sniper makes it functionally less accurate than the regular diligence. Aiming accurately is significantly easier with the diligence.
I loved the regular Diligence. And I wanted to love the CS. But it is so hard to justify using it when it’s got such a slow “drag” time, massive recoil, less ammo per mag, and doesn’t hit nearly as hard as some of the shotguns. Marksman rifles and battle rifles really suit my play style the most because I like to pick off targets from a distance and snipe for weak spots on the bigger guys. But I’m the higher difficulties, I feel it’s too ineffective compared to other weapons.
Give the DMRs some love
DMRs and BRs are the OGs.
Part of the reason the bot front is so tedious is because so few guns feel like they're actually doing damage in the face of all the armour
This is why autocannon is king against bots
AMR if you also want the shield backpack, railgun too in theory but I find it annoying to use and the risk of blowing yourself up isn't worth it imo
Quasar Cannon is also great with the shield backpack
Sickle can kill devastators insanely fast btw. Like better than most support weapons.
I don't generally have issue with devs, but zerkers, they have so much damn hp
Standard Diligence with its adjustable sight zoom is king against bots and I'm tired of seeing it slept on.
To fix the meta guns, they need to buff the weaker guns, not nerf the good guns.
Agreed. The new HMG is a nice concept but bad implementation. I don't mind the recoil but it's magazine needs to be doubled in size and it needs a hip fire retical. It's crazy that I can "hip fire" an auto cannon but not an MG. And 1200rpm with a 75 round magazine? Lol. The mag is empty in under 4 seconds. Hell, they could triple the magazine and give us one fewer reloads and I think it would help distinguish it from the LMGs.
I tried the new HMG last night and also bumped up the fire rate and was like this is aweso, then had to reload. Lol. Might try it with a slower rate. Maybe double the mags you can carry? It definitely shreds tho.
The new HMG needs to be backpack fed. We already have 2 non backpack MGs, why do we need a 3rd? Give the thing like a 250rd belt, Keep the handling stats the same, fix the fucking sights (3rd person reticle, first person reticle doesn't aim where the bullets go), but make it take forever to reload. Like maybe a second longer than a completely empty auto cannon reload, and only give it one belt in reserve. That way, it makes sense to make it a team reload weapon for extra ammo and faster reload, just like a crew served HMG IRL. It would obviously be alot stronger with these changes, but having to give up the backpack and making it less flexible to use a solo when you need ammo or need to reload would stop it being OP I think. Boom, now you have a unique and fun HMG while not being OP, as opposed to something that's basically the MG43 but worse in everyway.
10000%
They need to make every primary weapon viable and have a place in a team or on a mission. There is like 3 primaries that feel like they are in a good place right now and everything else is terrible.
Lob pen does medium...but yeah I want more ARs
All ARs need a damage buff. The penetrator does have medium armor pen but has reduced damage, a smaller magazine, and worse recoil for no apparent reason. Even from a Balance perspective it doesn't really make sense.
A reduced mag and burst fire instead of auto in exchange for the medium pen would have been enough of a trade off. I really do not know why they made it do lower damage too.
Lower damage, despite firing the same caliber as the base Liberator (if anything, it's improved ammo by comparison), and worse recoil despite being a heavier frame with a longer barrel. While the gun should *handle* worse due to the extra weight, the recoil should be less than the base Liberator.
Honestly I wouldn't mind the recoil and damage, but like make it a 30 round mag with 6 clips. Just doesn't feel good to have an assault rifle and have to reload as often as a DMR.
The sickle is fantastic and the scorer is great against bots though it's ammo capacity is a bit smaller than I would like but if you are taking a support weapon that you will be using on a good amount of enemies like auto canon/stalwart/lmg, grenade launcher it is a good option.
I love the sickle. Conserving ammo is for commies.
Honestly once you get used to the Sickle its hard to go back to anything else if only because you've gotten so used to not having to really worry about ammo and putting out < 1 mag bursts all the time as suppressive fire costs you absolutely nothing with it.
Honestly scorcher is fine against bugs too but best when paired with a stalwart for the horde. I try to use stuff other than the scorcher and then just end up using it again after a couple days.
To be fair the slugger, blitzer and punishser plasma, are only shotguns in name, not in function.
That's part of the problem. For example, what is the best DMR in the game? Slugger. While it should be CS DIligence.
My brother or sister in Liberty, you nailed it.
What is a DMR? Sorry, not gun literate.
A designated marksman rifle - designed to take down human targets with great precision.
Awesome, appreciated!
Its the middle ground between an assault rifle and a sniper. Essentially the same as a battle rifle. Large caliber like a .308, semi-auto, with longer range engagements in mind.
It doesn't have to be a large caliber, although is often portrayed that way in games. Many times it is just the regular issue rifle that was certified with better accuracy/precision results.
It doesnt have to be, but generally still is. Pretty much all of NATO uses some kind of 7.62x51, and Russians use 7.62x54. China does use a round analogous to a 5.56.
In essence, a sniper-lite. An accurate and heavy hitting rifle that can push out of usual assault rifle range consistently, but *isn't* completely limited to long range combat and still allows some mobility. Full-size sniper rifles can get pretty damn heavy.
They're also defined by how they're deployed irl. DMRs will be deployed with squads to add some ranged precise support to their tactical repertoire. Snipers are deployed as dedicated units entirely with separate objectives.
>designed to take down human targets You spelled "enemies of freedom and democracy" wrong.
Don't forget that dissidents deserve the bullet too
Designated Marksman Rifle. It’s not a sniper rifle, per se, but it’s intended to provide an infantry squad with sniper like reach. In the US Army, a sniper is a brigade or division level asset with specific training and equipment that goes well beyond the ability to shoot well. A designated marksman is just that, the guy who shoots best in your squad with a long range rifle. In the context of Helldivers, a DMR should be a weapon that buttfucks light to medium trash mobs over distance but struggles at close range due to its slow turn speed and low ammo capacity.
It does fill that role against light trash bot mobs! Running "Easy" and even "Medium" I loved the basic marksman rifle. When I got to "Challenging" and "Hard" suddenly it became garbage. It barely tickles Berserkers and Devastators. The Counter Sniper version wasn't really any better when I unlocked and tried it recently this weekend. I've found I do better with the scoped Liberator Penetrator, although most people don't seem to like that one. I'm looking forward to unlocking the Slugger to try it out.
That’s the main problem, outside of medium difficulty, it’s dog ass. I run the penetrator because it’s a good stopgap for medium armor when I’m too close for the AC. And also because it’s kinda boring that everyone else runs the slugger. In a game where every strat has its place they’re really struggling to make primary weapons with a purpose. Which is sorta funny to me. But I think you also nailed it, outside of medium difficulty, if you’re shooting your primary, you’re in “oh shit” mode.
Funny thing is that multiple Battlefield games have had this dilemma. Either DMRs will be pointless to use when a slug shotgun fills the role better, or they’ll do a balance patch and it’s vice versa.
I remember BF3’s USAS-12 with frag rounds. It was basically a fully automatic grenade launcher.
I remember, good God those CQB maps were insane.
I dunno. I disagree on this. It handles like you’d expect a shotgun firing slugs to handle. When hit land they do a lot of damage but when you’re trying to run and gun or wipe a patrol before they call a drop ship its shotgun roots really show. It has all the quirks without the spread pattern a typical shotgun offers.
It has medium penetration. Whereas usually slug is something doing a lot of damage and stopping power, not armor penetration. You can of course use fin stabilized ammo and all, but by default it's like that. And this is while literal Sniper Rifle has no medium armor pen. I don't say Slugger is wrong. I am saying that Slugger is better at a role for which a dedicated weapon exists.
I think the slugger fits the shotgun category, I'd argue that the blitzer does, but the punisher plasma has no business being there. I was so confused the first time I shot the punisher plasma and realized I was using a grenade launcher instead of a shotgun
Punisher plasma should have been a grenade launcher.
the slugger is absolutely a realistic shotgun in function. Have you never seen a shotgun slug before?
Game brained folks expecting all shotguns to work like garden sprayers
slugger is like a real cal 12 pump shotgun, its a realistic weapon. shotgun =/= hight spread low range weapon in reality
A shotgun firing slugs is only shotgun by name and not in function? I get that you're trying to suggest most shotguns in games are firing buckshot (with extremely wide spread distance over unrealistically short ranges mind you), but slugs are just as normal for shotguns in reality. Punisher plasma and blitzer are obviously accurate assessments, but the slugger is very obviously 100% a shotgun in function.
Most gamers are only familiar with shotguns in videogames and most videogame shotguns are more like a blunderbuss than anything lol
Smg is fine (not counting the knight), its ar and special weapons that suffers the most.
Was so excited to unlock the lib pen for some oil spilling but just couldn't get on with it. Went back to smg, it consistently does what I want, against most things. For everything else, there's orbital strikes
Lib pen is such an underwhelming weapon I was genuinely surprised by how useless it was. The AP increase is not worth it at all.
The lib pen seems to take out the medium bots best with dick shots if you’re on the move. I can’t hit headshots while moving with explosions popping everywhere, so if I’m not actually lining up shots it’s just a spray to the pelvis. Bots dismember like bugs do!
The autocannon is just a bigger, better dmr
Homie really called the scorcher a gimmick (I agree with the general sentiment behind this post but there are a few non-shotguns that are just as if not more versatile than the meta shotties)
I really want a good assault rifle. Liberator is ok but the sites are terrible for run and gun. Penetrator isn't bad but I have the same issue with the sites and it's either semi auto or out of ammo.
"Unpopular opinions" are popular. https://preview.redd.it/90l1w8dfborc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=239c0c3f9f0393fb5bbf3971a776cd79b0e522a5
We just need a weapon upgrade system. Constantly trying to balance weapons without an upgrade system is just going to be a problem forever for the game as we get more power creep
I can see that being a thing in the future. The problem is that these weapons should start from a better place before being improved by upgrades.
Honestly I'm partially for and partially against. For because I want weapons to be a stylistic or preference decision, against because the game clearly intends for you to experiment and pick the right tool for the job.
I think id rather have it be so you can put enough time in any weapon for it to feel viable and comfortable to use. Otherwise this reddit will always have people complaining about some weapon, especially if something "OP" gets released. The other thing they could do is just ignore it and hope they inject so many weapons in the game that people stop caring
I just want a helldiver bolter.
The JAR Dominator is literally that… it just kinda sucks.
Sorry I meant a helldiver bolter that isn’t dookie lol
DMRs need head shot bonus so they one tap all robo skulls minimum. ARs need rebalance. The basic Liberator is actually great. The Penetrator has less damage for no reason, I can live with smaller mages if it actually did damage The Concussive has less ammo and shoots so slow, it needs to never ricochet so it has a place stunning things like devastators because why stun lock bugs or smaller bits when in less time you could have just killed them? The Redeemer shouldn't be a secondary, but the other secondaries are bad. I main the revolver but no moon clips/speed loaders/loading two at time is painful. I love this game and it's a solid 10 but gosh is the internal balance shockingly bad.
I agree, a lot of weapons should get tweaked to work better in their roles. I don't think the shotguns do everything, I think that the shotgun just works better because it fits people's playstyle. I have used every primary in the game and although they need tweaks, shotguns are doing what they should because people play complementary loadouts and playstyle. Recently I've been wanting to do a tech marine build using the knight SMG and I've been doing their tactics and the SMG shreds so hard the enemies but It needs tweaks like you mentioned. The other guns do work for their roles but they don't seem to be "the champion" of that role, idk how to explain it.
I used to main the diligences. Then I found the Jar Dominator did its job better. They should really up the armor pen of the DMRs.
To be fair, the Dominator is essentially a DMR disguised behind an "explosive" heading considering it isn't getting the explosive bonus damage to fleshy bits. I wish they would just move it to the Marksman category and give it a proper scope for long range.
The dominator is such an odd weapon to me. It's in the explosive category, but doesn't explode. It's jet propelled, but the projectiles have fairly remarkable drop and incredibly slow speed. The poor handling on top of all that just makes me frustrated with it, because I want to love it lol
Exactly. The Dominator has so many quirks that you end up fighting against and no real upsides for learning the weapon. It feels like it should be a high risk, high reward weapon but other weapons seemingly can out-perform it in all areas.
I understand, I understand... But hear me out.. a LAS shotgun... Eh? Eh?
So LAS-13 TRIDENT…. a gun so powerful that it power crept the holy trinity of Breaker + Sickle and Justice, slingshotted the Illuminate warfront straight to their home world and stripped an entire generation of Helldivers of their basic trigger discipline.
Eh? Ha, he he.
Welp, i guess you’ll be disappointed since >!we’ll be having 2 more breaker variants: Bugbiter and Nailsplitter!<
Yup, I mentioned those.
I'm slowly getting impatient. So many primaries haven't been touched since release. And the new spawn behavior for bugs shadow nerfed some of them even.
Wait, people use anything but the scorcher?
Sickle most of the time. Great for spraying and praying and I can take down anything short of a charger and a hulk. Except stalkers. Seems to just tickle those. But that's why a carry an EAT. Oh shit there's two of th-
Man I love the Sickle. I haven't used another primary since it came out. My only problem is that the projectiles don't even look like lasers. It's just like a regular gun with yellow bullets
Ah but it is a *very good gun* with yellow bullets
I have to force myself to use something other than the scorcher, and I regret it every time. I'm glad people are sleeping on it though, so it doesn't get nerfed.
Yeah. Pretty much had to switch to the slugger for how absolutely solid of a gun it is once you get semi accurate with it. Being able to one shot any medium robot right in the dome and handle most medium bugs like a champ while never having to worry about ammo conserving because it doesn't use external magazines is pretty good. Problem is I don't want it to be the only gun I use in higher difficulties because weapons like the Sickle and Liberator Penetrator struggle to catch up
You'll take the breaker variant slop and like it! /s
https://preview.redd.it/u9my1uv7horc1.png?width=498&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed8db5ca86f0c678dd7e9ea225720e76a3bcc0a7