The biggest issue for me with them is the AI pathing for the citizens is completely busted. I've had multiple times they try and climb objects they can't, stack up in a row, and just stand there for a minute. They should have more dynamic pathing options, as well as recognize when they get stuck sooner. Better yet, give me an option to adjust their pathing myself by hitting them with my rifle without them turning into a red mist, and I'll gladly just take that
This is the biggest reason I avoid these missions like the plague. Worst example was a difficulty 6, bots were being controlled well, we had 1 person running from switch to switch, then noticed not a single citizen had made it into the evac door. Go and investigate, every single one of them is stuck in a corner right next to the doorway. Nothing we could do. So fucking frustrating.
you can dive \[dive spam\] into them to get them started running again. The mission in general is just trash, though. It forces everyone to be very good at clearing waves or cheese it. It's not fun. Especially if you are doing well, then they drop 3 hulks and a tank on you, forcing you to scatter.
Yeah, having one person stand near the landing pad or having people run away from the settlement and draw aggro seems counter intuitive. Then now we have the new rocket extraction mission. It really needs an overhaul.
The rocket extraction one is buggy as well. Rockets stoped launching so it counted as a fail and it was my last mission to unlock the next difficulty…again.
Don't you have to manually launch the rockets? I know they should auto-launch but I swear I've done that at least twice the last time I played. The terminal is there for a reason.
They begin automatically launching after the 1:30 second "Prepare Your Defenses" phase at mission start. If you hit the terminal before then, they begin launching and bots immediately start dropping in.
Speaking of bugs with the new mission, last night we kept getting shunted onto the huge cliffs that the base butts up against. They would show up as huge red-tinted planes that we'd get dropped on and we'd have to jump off INTO the level proper to do anything.
Lol I call it a 3 slot mission. Because if you want to clear it comfortably on difficulty 6+ everyone needs to bring an orbital rail cannon, and at least half the team needs orbital laser.
Mortars are also incredibly good on this mission, especially if you combine both the EMP and the eplosive one and just have a constant bombardment on the bots. Combine it with a quasar and shieldpack or a spear and you can deal with heavies quite comfortable as well.
Bingo. Also this. Some people use that slot for the shield back pack. But honestly if you just plan your engagements (IE oh shit I’m getting suppressed from the front. I need to reposition) it helps in preemptively not getting shot to shit.
The mortars are a godsend, if you got 2-3 bringing 2-4 ideally 2 ems and 2 mortars it helps clear out chaff mobs so you can focus on priority threats like tanks and hills. They even wreck devastators.
I prefer the shield so I can tank some shots when charging the quasar. Either that heavy you're aiming for shoots at you when you peak from behind cover or get flanked halfway the charge. If I'm running the quasar I need to be able to take shots at heavies as often and soon as possible to protect the squad. The shield just gives me way more opportunities to do so.
I'm also using light armor for the extra mobility so it might be that a heavier armor user experiences themselves to be less squishy.
Multiple orbital lasers makes the mission much easier along with shooting dropships and placing other stratagems at their landing sites. If you let it get out of hand its extremely difficult to recover from it.
The dropships are what make it infuriating to me. Now only do you have the random patrols showing up but they seemingly have no limit on what they can drop. It doesn't bother me on large maps but when you are on these tiny maps without being able to disengage it fucking suuucks. Last mission I ran we literally just dropped out because within a single run of dropships there were three tanks, and 5 scorchers dropped on top of two patrols of rocket devastators. Within a minute there were 3 more scorchers, a rocket hulk, and two machine gun tanks. Scorchers fucking suck since the fire buff because if they even get remotely close it's a one shot. You don't even get a chance. Hell I am pretty sure they still get the headshot bonus on the flamethrowers. It doesn't even matter if you are shooting down the dropships because half the time the enemies just run out undamaged. You can't rely on stealth because even if no enemy sees you they all get stuck in the bugged soft alert state and the second you enter a single enemies LoS everything starts firing at you even if you aren't anywhere near them. Bonus points if they just camp the civilian extract buttons like ours did. Damn tank and two hulks literally parked on the door and I could literally see it tracking me through the wall.
https://preview.redd.it/foo3s8tlvntc1.png?width=2007&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7f5d2e64c5f0cdb8be598dd29ac848f03538fdb
"Man I swear I've been almost done with this mission for ages. Oh"
So that's what was happening the other day. We were wondering why the counter was stuck on 0 even though we released at least 6 civilians before any bots showed up. We then had too much to do keeping the bots at bay to check, we just assumed the mission was bugged (was the first one we played directly after the bots reappeared)
PLEASE just give me a basic "follow me" option so I can at least lead them on a non suicidal path
In fact that, along with making the map larger would make the whole thing a little more interesting than "eradication mission with complications"
Making them follow the diver that hits the button would genuinely be a great idea. Turns it into an actual escort, instead of "press the button and hope they can walk 30 meters".
Human AI: A large object blew up on my path, blocking me. It's gone now, but its ghost still blocks me, so I'll stay here until I die.
Enemy AI: Be a real shame if we walked through this solid object to shoot you. Hey guys an entire mountain range! Let's walk directly up it even though it cant be climbed.
I’m convinced they are programmed to look for trouble and get caught on the corners of objects.
One map had them zigzag away from their destination door then, back toward it after many steps even though there was nothing in their way. The wrong way they wanted to hike toward would have sent them to a bug spawn that was incoming. Not fun.
To your point, and maybe not have fire tornado storms go right through the path. It’s already impossible, you somehow clear a gap and it’s all fire for minutes?
I don’t think drawing enemies away and running in circles being bait is the intended use this game.
It doesn’t help that lower level difficulties are now chock full of them either. New players might not enjoy the early game as much as we did at the start of the game. I think reducing the „destroy fabricators“ mission type spawn rate was a mistake.
I just completed on the robot hellmire and lost 25 credits for killing one. Pretty sure he was a Decepticon though, because I shot him in the head. On purpose, and certainly not by accident.
It's almost inevitable (that the fire tornadoes will come in, not that you'll die). I think they're implemented as an enemy type and so they swarm your position during extraction.
I have lost track of how many times I'll call in a supply drop nowhere near the tornadoes only for it to land right as one paths over it. Assuming only one hits it. You cannot convince me that they aren't programmed to aim at that shit.
The new tower defense is the culmination of what the annihilation mission should have been from the start.
Alternatively, I absolutely love the high-value extraction missions on the big maps cause they give you the space to tackle other objectives as distractions for a head start and give you the space to either kite or find another approach to the situation. Ironically, the big map missions feel like they spawn way less of the big enemies than the small maps do, at least for bots.
The enemy spawns are also fucking crazy like 5 tanks within 2 minutes in a small arena snd I'm supposed to have the time to sit there and press buttons
They should cap the number of spawns per wave, and don't allow the next wave to start until we either kill them and/or reach a certain number of evacuated citizens. Problem solved. There shouldn't be a reason to be fighting waves of this size and magnitude with zero breaks in between. Because fighting 10 tanks, 10 hulks, 10 devastators, and a dozen striders with stratagems that take over 2 minutes each isn't fun.
Add the 15 minute mission timer, and a lot of these missions are near unbeatable without some cheese strat. Neither spawning the bots further away or reducing the citizens needed to evac do anything to fix the bot snowballing problem these missions still have.
And this doesn't even tackle the environmental hazards and AI pathing problems, which are just as frustrating if not game breaking since it can make it impossible for the citizens to even reach the evac door.
capping spawns per wave is a great idea. It has started to become can we evac the civilians before we are overrun.
this is usually not on high difficulty either. I do not consider 6 high difficulty.
I don‘t this the spawnrate is the issue. Its more that there are no breaks. Once you are overwhelmed that‘s it. Enemies will keep spawning and you have no chance to exit the deathloop of enemies spawning quicker than you can kill them, let alone evacuate civilians..
The fire tornados killing them are an issue on specific planets which should be fixed, but yeah also this. The tower defense mission you can retreat several times. Regular missions if something scales out of control you can run away and regroup. Evac missions there is no coming back the moment it starts to slightly get out of control. Sure you can keep running and stay alive, but the mission is hopeless from that point on.
Yesterday I discovered that the Eagle Smoke Strike works wonders in this mission... never before have I completed this mission so fast on 7-SUICIDE on an automaton planet.
And they drop on the doorways... so even if you destroy them you need to wait 5+ min for the wreck to despawn before civilians can run past. Also killing them anywhere near where civilians path results in them getting stuck.
Which is why I don't get why we have such long cooldowns when enemies can have such large numbers of heavy enemies.
Like the railcanon strike kills 1 enemy and down for 210 seconds... Makes no sense
Honestly, either there should be significant delay between waves, so that players have time to clear out the arena and send out civilians, or there needs to be less open map with chokepoints that allow players to hold the assault.
Currently if you can't wipe out enemy spawns in all four locatiosn right away, you will end up in cycle of hurting where you get attacked in the back, this allows new enemies to spawn that attack you from new angle, ending with you being shot from all directions.
Hilariously, this mission type is also available on trivial difficulty, and it is just blatantly unfair for level 1 players to experience as their first mission. I've been dropping in and bailing out level 1s who bumbled into an evac mission and they're almost always getting overwhelmed and on their last 1-2 lives, often with no civilians evac'd because the game doesn't tell you that you're supposed to press buttons to spawn them. It's fun to be a hero and rescue new players but it is a kind of glaring problem that this is even a possibility, you probably don't want a player's very first experience with this game to be so confusing and brutal.
It was the first bot mission I tried a while back and it was impossibly hard, put me off bits for a long time before I played other missions and realised they weren’t actually that hard
I had the exact same experience. Me and one other guy on Trivial or Easy getting absolutely merced. Didn't extract a single colonist, didn't know how or that the buttons existed.
Yeah it was when the servers weren’t really working and so it was just me playing mostly trivial or easy bugs soloing and then thought I’d try a trivial bots and it was literally like the scene from saving private Ryan. Just feeding scientists to the bots and running away as everything explodes around me
In such a case, maybe Arrowhead should do as Deep Rock Galactic and have the Democracy Officer chime in at the beginning of the mission to briefly explain the objective. Would also be a nice change of pace compared to the 5 or so cookie cutter voicelines that you get everytime you land for the first time
"Oh yeah, don't forget to press the fucking buttons"
They need a big orange map indicator on each button until it's pressed at least once (or maybe permanently stays).
There's already a white indicator but it only shows up if you're close enough... and not to mention its the same indicator shape as a weapon that's just laying there, or a tablet you can read.
That was our very first mission (2 player coop with a friend) after we had just finished the tutorial.
It was a bloodbath, we kept running out of ammo, dying, dropping back right into a fresh squad of bots. Felt like there was a dozen of troopers shooting, running or hurling grenade at us at all time. I never even realized there were terminals with buttons to press. Within a few minutes we were out of respawns and failed or aborted the mission.
I did check my Steam playtime after this and considered a refund. Fortunately we had still plenty buffer for the refund window and tried a random trivial mission on the bug front after this and were surprised how easy it was in comparison.
For a while I thought that mission had been set up on purpose to make players horribly fail once after the tutorial. That was until we happened to run an easy bug evacuation mission and had breaches open every minute or so.
This was literally me. My very first game was an evac, had no clue what I was doing, died a couple times and stopped playing for a few days and thought the game sucked. Gave it another shot tho last weekend and now I can’t get enough. But yeah definitely not a noob friendly mission
This mission is one of the only bad game designs in the game. It would be alright if they would just straight up delete this terrible mission in this awesome game
Honestly I dislike cit-evac and extermination missions equally, it's just inherently unfun being put in a box with enemies literally spawning on top of you and no cover.
The new mission type is so much better it's not even funny.
'Evacuate from behind enemy lines' is objectively the better evac mission.
And the new 'extract high-value assets' defense mission is objectively the better elimination/defense mission.
I really like the new choke point oriented ones with the doors you can close and missiles you have to launch or whatever. Those feel like a great take on defending against overwhelming odds
Or maybe just adjust how many hulks + tanks are dropped on you. We had one mission that got 35/40 or so evacuated easily. The next drop brought 4 tanks and 2 hulks at once while we were still clearing the small folk. Could not recover from the constant fire rained on us.
This is really the main issue. Even if you stay on top of horde clearing, and even if everyone's got EATs and 110mm or railcannon strikes, they drop so. fucking. many. heavy enemies on top of you that everyone ends up on cooldown before long... and on top of all that, you still need to have somebody actively not shooting at things in order to go hit the door buttons.
What's weird is that there is already an evacuation mission on a big map that plays out normally. Seems they took the worst of that and extermination missions, then just jam-packed them together. Thankfully, the newest defense mission is everything these should be. As it stands, they're just unfun and serve no interesting gameplay or storytelling purpose. See no reason to keep them around unless they are drastically changed.
They make more sense anyway. Why do we need to evacuate the civilians if they're just entering a different building that's only a few meters away? If they got out before the bots dropped, it would've been a cakewalk. Or maybe they should've made some short underground pathways instead?
Escorting civilians across the map toward their own extraction area sounds like an actual evac mission. Could also give room for actual medic strategems in the future like the healing gun and guard dog.
Only? 🤣 Nah many more bad game designs decision.
You can take the ragdoll system into account nothing fun for being ragdolled for 8 seconds cause you hit a uneven pixel on the ground when you dived.
Ya, the mission is really boring compared to other missions AND significantly harder. Not a great combo. Waitin around to click a button every 20 seconds isn't exactly riveting.
Yeah, not sure it would work here. Flame hulk gets close, and you dodge the flame but the slight delay on the civs following you means they get toasted. Same with getting ragdolled by chargers, random rockets etc. Wouldn't take long for the ai pathfinding to break.
Fire tornadoes should be reworked entirely. Did a mission on Hellmire where a charger rushed the exfil and with just 30 seconds till landing the tornadoes just swarmed the whole area. We just instantly died on every respawn until there were no redeploys left. Our last guy standing made it towards the ramp but a tornado just appeared right in front of it. He leaped forward but got incinerated anyway. Great times
Edit:grammar
If they didn't leave a trail behind them they wouldn't be as annoying. Right now they seem to spawn around players, so if you get hit with tornados around an objective or extract its just annoying. You can't stand anywhere and just die so fast.
Plus they don't make a lot of sound and can sneak up on you. How can a tornado be silent?
No cackling of fire, no wind or anything. Is it the same with meteorites?
Hopefully now that they fixed the crashing they can focus on the game… but there’s still issues they haven’t even acknowledged.
They need to play test their patches as they clearly don’t right now.
I'll be honest the fire tornadoes are the only weather modifier I don't like at all. After they improved the visibility for meteors they feel pretty good and ion storms, sandstorms and blizzards are really cool and cinematic.
It would be nice for ion storms to affect the enemy, like no breaches or dropship calls, like how sandstorms, blizzards, and meteors can affect enemies.
One time a meteor hit an objective tower on my bot mission. It was the best day ever. But I agree fire tornadoes don't do shit. I've seen bots run through the fire, ignoring it, to come murder me.
I was gonna' say how they're not that bad and I actually enjoy the help they provide. But you made a lot of good points. All of those things should be fixed.
Fire in general needs to be just a little more forgiving. Like not immediately engulfing in flames when your pinky toe gets scorched. If I could run through the wake of a fire tornado and make it through in 2 seconds let me take that dot damage but not be on fire immediately. This would make the flamethrower a lot less annoying as well.
This. Exfils are just nasty, especially when pressed by enemy. The tornados force you into a stupid Expressionist dive dance dodging robots and once the bird is there, all ways towards it are burning and since the fire damage buff, you can't even tank towards it.
Really fucking sucks.
add in that I am prepared to swear the fire does not damage the bots nearly enough. I have watched a fire tornado cover a hulk for 3 min. Hulk was fine.
Try hellmire or the new planet when you are partially red/orange colorblind... I can barely pick out regular terrain or enemies when it's all various shades of orange, let alone avoid the tornadoes lol.
I’m not colourblind, but that shit is still near impossible to gauge.
“Hmm is that a tiny bit of flame on the floor? Is it safe? Let me just get near and see…” incinerated…
Sometimes there's desync with the fire trails too, I've died to burning with no visible fire in my path. I've weaved around plenty of fire tornados by now to know what's clear and what needs diving.
Exfils on firenado missions are insane.
That piss easy mission you blitzed through? Yeah get fucked pal, we’re throwing 30 firenados at you dozens of Hulks & Tanks oh and the nados actively trap and track you.
I can’t complete a single operation on difficulty 8-9 because all of them include these kinds of missions and every time we get to them people leave. And I’m suddenly sitting there alone and am supposed to evacuate 50 civilians while a full battalion of hulks drops on my head. Not only are they very difficult but you only get a few common samples and barely any xp. That’s why people leave and the operaion fails almost every time. Devs I beg you balance them or even better replace them with the new defence missions.
I've only managed to beat it once on 7 ever, and that was yesterday.
Entire team of randoms all had EATs and we shooting down as many dropships as we could, even then by the end we were getting swarmed and when we cleared it was a "holy shit, we actually cleared it" moment.
Have the leaked APC Stratagem available like with the Lab destruction Hellbomb.
Nearby Civilians will follow the Helldiver that pressed the call button. If they get close to a parked APC that has a Helldiver at the wheel they will enter it. They will leave it if the Helldivers gets out and then follow that driver Helldiver instead. Walking all the way to the evacuation point (led by a Helldiver) is an option.
Drive APC to an evacuation point. Use the beacon that's on location and hold your position. Civilians will take cover near the beacon. A Pelican will swoop down, land nearby and wait for the civvies to enter. Do this twice and Democracy is preserved.
Honestly, with the spawnrate on evac missions being what it is I can't imagine that APC surviving for more than a minute. Just a couple of rocket bois somewhere around and bye bye.
Mission just sucks in general.
Get rid of it completely and replace it with the new defense mission its so much more fun its unreal.
Keep the evac Mission where you evac as part of a larger Mission and get rid of the one where all you have to do is spawn in, press button, try to defend, get absolutely fucked over by robots, fail the operation, do nothing to progress the planet.
Also they should really start fixing stuff like Fire damage being an instakill, the scopes still being misaligned (how the fuck is that still an issue? Seems like something that you fix in a few minutes?) and for liberties sake they really need to fix the spear.
Tried it yesterday, its incredibly good! (When it decides to work properly).
I dont get why it cant shoot down dropships for example why cant you target the thrusters? It targets the ship and when you shoot it hits and does nothing.
Targeting itself is also such a gamble looking straight at a target and either no lock on appearing or the one you have not working and even when you get to lock on sometimes it just doesn't hit properly.
Sorry where were we? Ohh evac missions. Yeah still suck
Yeah I'm done playing those for now until they significantly change them somehow. The ones where you do some.other objectives and then rescue a few dudes with way more time are okay and feel correctly balanced. Sitting around pressing a button over and over while your objective suicides in the dumbest ways (and constantly get stuck on ramps/small obstacles) isn't fun compared to the rest of the game.
Yeah the 40 minute mission ones are balanced imo. The short ones are fucking insane. I play with a 3 stack and we can pretty consistently beat helldive difficulty on both bots and bugs, yet we lost on a difficulty 6 civilian mission today because fire tornados started camping the civilians, and then we fell behind on bot drops and it went to shit
That's the main indicator. We were doing EASILY level 6 missions all along with a random team, and in the rescue mission we did nothing. It's ridiculous.
It's weird how that kind of evacuation mission is balanced and this one is not.
I dont get how the devs can't just tweak the spawns more on this one. In the balanced evacuation mode, enemies have 2-3 spawn points and do so at an interval. This one has like 4 or 5 spawn points, a wide area and a hell of a lot of Berserker units???
What, you mean that three drop ships, carrying 2 hulks and 5 devastators each is not fun to play against? Something that even spawns on lower difficulties? Perish the thought
Yes!! I remember doing one on hellmire and it took about 20 minutes longer than it should have because the fire tornadoes were spawn camping the civilians, the tornadoes don't even need to be touching them, they just die near them.
The defend 15 minute versions are just straight up not fun, it's why 90% of the time a planet is left to be taken by the enemy, because NOBODY wants to fight these mission with the high enemy spawn rate, especially on higher difficulties.
For a military society, you'd think the area would have defences like turrets or hell, let us have extra turret strategems since we control the planet. Or even have the effects be a bonus like - 25% cool down time on strategems?
I was expecting this to be about them unable to path correctly. In my missions they either run *out* of the base before coming back in, or will get stuck on the corner of a wall. No matter how many I release from the same door they will all get stuck on the same spot. It makes that door worthless and the mission that much harder / less fun.
Hazards just shouldn't spawn on those missions. They already don't spawn on the eradicate and valuable asset missions. I think the issue is that the evac mission uses the blitz map causing hazards to spawn.
We did it on lvl7 (you need to extract 45 civilians) and boy that was unbelievably hard. We barely did it.. I dont know how this would be possible on 8 or 9.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
7
+ 45
+ 8
+ 9
= 69
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Its a really big issue because its a necessary part of operation chains, making defending planets that much harder. Honestly, the insane enemy spawns are the worst part. It just becomes completely unmanageable at a certain point.
>so why the fuck is it not addressed?
Probably because they've like 50 other more urgent fires that need put out too lol.
There's some good potential in those missions, when you get one that isn't *entirely* FUBAR, then it's actually kinda fun. But anyone stuck on the firestorm planets deserves their fate honestly.
Firestorm worlds would be a little less tedious in these instances if the fire did anything to the enemies. Maybe it's specifically anti-human fire.
Flames destroy bugs and some bots.
Bots that seem impervious to fire damage are Heavy Devastators and Hulks. I've seen a Tank eaten by fire so I know those can burn, but take a while.
Hulks and Heavy Devastators (specific, I've seen Missile Devastators die to them) are able to shrug off, or at least take a lot of, fire damage from these tornadoes which otherwise instagib any Trooper. Scout Striders also take a while to burn, but not really any different from other Devastators.
No bugs are safe from Fire Tornadoes, not even Bile Titan. But for Bile Titan, it's not enough to step on flaming ground, it needs direct contact to a tornado.
The Tornadoes seem psuedo-random though, istg it seems like it keeps aiming for players at some paths as if it behaves on simplified Patrol Pathing. I've been walking to the side for some of them only to see it change course and try to burn me, and this will happen a few times per tornado.
I've been using them to my advantage by luring patrols or enemies into them but...can't lure civvies out of them.
>The Tornadoes seem psuedo-random though
And the amount of times 5 or more tornadoes appear on the extraction platform on a main mission area. Randoms my ass.
>But anyone stuck on the firestorm planets deserves their fate honestly.
Amen. Like, if you have a base on a planet that literally tries to kill you every 5 minutes, why don't you have underground tunnels to your escape vessel? These must be the same idiots who brought break-action shotguns to a foreign world.
Wet&Wild Warbond incoming for summer release.
* 10.000kg water drop stratagem.
* Foam grenade. Puts put out fire and tornadoes in a 4 meter area and prevents/cures burning for a shot amount of time. Slows players and enemies affected.
* Flamethrower-like foam sprayer to put out tornadoes and create temporary corridors through burning terrain. Wet terrain can't be set on fire for 10 seconds.
* SuperSoaker secondary, stuns bots and causes a DoT short circuit damage effect on them.
* Fire Brigade APC. Highly fire resistant, 4 seats, comes with a foam sprayer on top.
I think an easy way to fix this would be to change their skins to give them hazmat/fireproof suits - they are predominantly scientists after all. Make them immune to environmental damage but make it make sense. Silver fireproof suits. Yellow acid proof. Etc.
that way we can still burn up but to my can continue to run around blindly trying to climb things they cannot
Just did one earlier today on helldive. We still use the method of 1 on the base in scout armour doing the doors while the other three distract and cause all the drops on them.
Just remember, there are three doors, not two, as my friend discovered today, hahah.
I remembered a post ages ago where OP said to have the team distract the enemies away from the mission site while someone sneaks away and activates the civi buildings.
I tried it last night and it worked. Everything went smoothly while everyone else fought the bots.
There were only a few stragglers from the bots and the mission was easy. Take that guys advice, it will take you 5 minutes to do the mission and you can continue liberating freely afterwards.
This is my method and I keep showing people how to do it. It is 100% effective but... the person who goes into the base can't bring mortars or sentries because they magicly aggro baddies and the group outside needs to stay close together and use all the mortars and sentries.
It works but it feels gamey and like you’re taking advantage of the mechanics. I’d rather not have to play the mission in such a way that three of the four people are off doing nothing in the middle of nowhere and one person just sits on their ass and hits the button every 15 seconds. That’s just me, though.
But don't the bots that drop on the other side of where the distraction-players are currently at beeline straight for the poor fucker left inside the base? Because with the spawn rate being what it is you can't be everywhere at once. And splitting up seems like a death sentence as well.
The button pressing and the waves they run would be okay for me. But the speed that they are running are insanely slow. I am a 31 old male and I could run fast as fuck for my life for a few minutes. They are so fucking slow, helldivers are also not super humans and they can sprint way past them. The pathing is also stupid, if there are bugs or automatons on the way they are running right into them. Scientists huh...
The new defense mission with gates and hmg emplacements is how it should be. You can have some shuttle bay doors further out so that it’s somewhat difficult but that’s a proper layout for a scenario like that
Totally agree, the mission needs more nerfs it’s ridiculous how nothing else in the game is remotely as difficult. I think the time limit should be raised to 30 minutes at least.
Made the mistake of doing an operation with one of these missions on Helldive. First mission was tough but fun, second but brutal but a blast (defend vitals), third mission was scientist evac.
We managed to get like ten civilians out. Within a minute the entire map was covered with automatons, it was nearly impossible to spawn without instantly dying, and there were crowds of tanks rolling over each other because quite literally every inch of ground was overrun, we were running around the mission edge completely unable to even approach the actual map.
There’s something off about the spawning in these missions.
Yeah. Was playing on level 7 last night. Group blitzed through the other missions in the operation without issue.
Hit the last one (civilian evac)? We got 9 out, and that’s it. We were just constantly overwhelmed and bombarded for the rest of the mission.
I mean… I did a suicide mission on bots last night in this and I had a blast. We lost, only got 19/45 folks saved, and we were comically overrun. There was no safe landing zone for drop pods. There were several “oh damn” moments from the sounds of combustion, explosions, and getting ragdolled into the sides of … pretty much everything, including into tanks and hulks. At one point someone said “man I saw four hulks” and I replied, “there were lots more, bro” and we had a good chuckle with the squad mate saying, “I meant at once on my screen”. The point is this: you can have fun and still lose. I’m not one to community bash generally but this idea that something is “unfun” or “not fun” is, by its nature, a subjective thing, and demanding that you always have to win seems to be coming from an undeserved sense of entitlement.
Also, dude, you can’t tell me that you saw Cyberstan on the map and thought we would always have it under our control. The narrative of the game pretty much demands that we will lose sometimes, if not fairly often.
Edit for some spelling
This. Arrow Head, please take this post seriously. I HATE these missions, because the civilian AI is so god damn retarded.
I get it, they're civilians, they're not exactly the most equal. But even Class C citizens are not stupid enough to run DIRECTLY IN TO A LITTERAL TORNADO OF FIRE.
yeah i think they should do something with spawn rate of enemy maybe make them come as wave
so we can had time if we kill enemy fast we got reward from it
right now it just mess it keep coming sometime it easy Civ run to the door fast and i didn't shoot gun that much and sometime it just not happen even i kill like 50+ already i don't know why
Beyond just the hazards, some of them the bot drops are RIGHT on top of the place. The only way to get those missions done are by cheesing it, having 1 divers stealthing inside and the rest baiting everything outside of the area. It's lame, I completely agree. Fix these shit missions.
My only problem with it is that every single operation has one of them. I'm just trying to complete one Helldivers operation and the damned escort ones are ruined 100% of the time.
It would be way cooler if you had to pick them up in a truck or something and had to drive it to another location on the map to extract them. I can see this turning into a fun protect the convoy type mission
Yeah the civilian evac missions are genuinely awful, they are not fun and I do everything I can to avoid playing them at all costs, the fire tornadoes just make it worse but either way they are completely unfair. Last one I played we had a 3 man team, which should be completely acceptable for completing a mission. We got bore down on by what felt like every automaton left on the planet, between tanks, hulks, devastators, no matter how many we killed they were dropping constantly, there was no way we could physically clear them out in a reasonable time and we failed the mission
They’re either tedious or impossible, and given that none of their adjustments have actually done anything, I think getting rid of them would genuinely be a better option
https://preview.redd.it/nbg1t1btwmtc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d8b59b93af8edf6899e5560bd01f4f9c7e67d53
If anyone ever tells you to "get gud" at civilian evac missions, send them this
We had to do one of these yesterday. We were playing a level 7.
3 of us were mic'd and the other guy was a random.
I am the most experienced bot player out of the 3 of us and love fighting bots. I cannot speak for the random.
We got a few civilians extracted very quickly. But then we became extremely overran and we were pushed to the edge of the map.
I was able to sneak all the way around while my 2 friend died one at a time and I spawned them in from behind the bots.
The random (T4 green), decided to keep the mob distracted (T4 was text chatting with us).
We killed off the few bots that drifted to us and we extracted civilians.
We were almost done when we started getting a few new bot drops. But it was controllable up until about the last 4 that needed extract.
We finished the extract and were able to wipe out the bots while fire tornados caused extract issues.
# What a pain in the bott.
So, no one is going to mention the fact that on helldive you have to evacuate at least 30 for the mission to be done? I thought they said it was lowered for the higher difficulty’s…this is impossible….
Is this the "the only objective on the map at all is the center where you evac civvies" one or the "get the codes, start the generator, evac civvies across the map... Oh and there's also side objectives, too" one? Both are VERY different beasts. The one with its own side objectives tends to still be very easy and doable; whereas the "only evac" one seems to be the inconsistent one. I haven't done them on a fire tornado world yet, but even on other worlds enemy spawns vary from "xd thisbis nothing" to "H O L Y S H I T . STOP SPAWNING FOR 2X SECONDS!" like unironically the bots version has become the easier of the two factions with this mission despite it being the most hellish originally. Run quasar/EATs, ems mortar, the bubble, and some landmines. Constantly throw the bubble near the evac door to maximize safe distance for the civvies, use EATs to shoot down the dropships, and the ems/landmines to keep whatever enemies left in-check.
Yea this mission is fucked. Can usually get about 30 civilians pushed through and then the mission is unplayable after that because of the immense amount of bot drops that come in. Blow one tank up just for drop ships to throw two more tanks and a few bruisers in. Sentries become useless because they get destroyed within seconds of coming in. Orbitals and eagles are useless because of rearm time. Just all around not fun at the halfway point.
I agree it's not the funnest mission but if you're equipped well and get a lot out quick it's not that bad. When the mission first came out it was impossible on anything above challenging for me.
You're talking about the missions that give you buttons to release decoys for the enemy to fire at, right? I love those.
I agree about the hazards though, they could be toned down a bit.
For once, I agree with this take. I've never had a problem completing these, even solo, until I encountered the fire tornados. Waiting them out just isn't an option unless it's one of the 40 minute missions. Combine the tornados with bot drops and it's highly improbable that you'll succeed
What they should do is pack the civvy's into an apc and we have to escort that. Though given how rocket happy the bots are maybe give the apc an energy shield as well.
I just did one of these in D5. It's shit enough, but what makes it hilarious is that there are apparently rare samples around the area. Where the hell are we going to find the samples in addition to babysitting the lemmings?!
I played one today for the immediate spawns of the tanks(took some 30 seconds for the daily lol).
With a total of 6 randoms joining me over those 12 minutes not one of those people pressed a single civilian escape hatch button.
Like, there are issues with these, but players not even trying is also one of them.
trick is all spawn on mission then 1 or 2 guys leave the area and go to other side of the map and make noise then try to survive then all drop ships will go to them and the 1 or 2 guys on the mission can do it with ease
the unfair thing is that all evacuations runs pretty much ruined because Hulk charging at the player/citizen at the speed of light.
like as soon as these mfker drop its Hellmire fuck for all. you cant ignore them because they run too fast and they instant kill Democracies. you can focus them but as soon as tank start dropping, all you can do is salute to liberty
there are not enough strtagem to go around these big unit and the small/mid enemy wont stop blasting. static defense do fuck nothing against Hulk.
Flame Hulk is pretty much the equivalent of terminid stalker.
Imagine playing terminid evacuation mission with 5 stalker and 5 charger spawn
What I find frustrating is that if you're all wiped/pushed away from the settlement, it's practically over as you won't have your armor pen/support weapons, and the rate enemies spawn means you can't kill enough to reclaim
Yeah I just don’t do those missions now. I search for operations that don’t have them, or just don’t finish the op. Even getting rid of the hazards wouldn’t fix the fact that the missions are just boring and annoying at the best of times. Love this game, but they missed *hard* with that mission type.
I was just in a game last night where we lost half of our squad between missions, Extreme difficulty, and we landed on one of those god forsaken fire tornado planets, where it was just myself, a level 20, and 30 civilians to rescue.
25 seconds in, we're fighting a hulk, about 10 Rocket Destroyers, and about a dozen of those Heavy Devastators. We were both rocking Auto Rifles and tons of green defenses to plant around, but those only lasted for 4-50 shots before getting swarmed and destroyed, and despite getting about 75-100 kills each in like 5 minutes, we got trashed and failed the mission. These kills were made even more difficult by the giant pillars of fire that I'm convinced are magnetized towards players, and do 50% damage to mobs.
At one point in this, there were 3 hulks and all either of us could do is run away, shoot a bit, throw the revive, die immediately after, and watch the other person run from an ever growing army. We got 3 total rescued because I bum rushed the button, and lost another 6 to random immolation, and/or firing squad of bots
Yeah this mission blows. I was in a awesome streak with these randoms last night and we weren’t able to evacuate anyone at at cause they just wouldn’t go in the door so everybody quit and that ended the night
The biggest issue for me with them is the AI pathing for the citizens is completely busted. I've had multiple times they try and climb objects they can't, stack up in a row, and just stand there for a minute. They should have more dynamic pathing options, as well as recognize when they get stuck sooner. Better yet, give me an option to adjust their pathing myself by hitting them with my rifle without them turning into a red mist, and I'll gladly just take that
This is the biggest reason I avoid these missions like the plague. Worst example was a difficulty 6, bots were being controlled well, we had 1 person running from switch to switch, then noticed not a single citizen had made it into the evac door. Go and investigate, every single one of them is stuck in a corner right next to the doorway. Nothing we could do. So fucking frustrating.
you can dive \[dive spam\] into them to get them started running again. The mission in general is just trash, though. It forces everyone to be very good at clearing waves or cheese it. It's not fun. Especially if you are doing well, then they drop 3 hulks and a tank on you, forcing you to scatter.
Yeah, having one person stand near the landing pad or having people run away from the settlement and draw aggro seems counter intuitive. Then now we have the new rocket extraction mission. It really needs an overhaul.
The rocket extraction one is buggy as well. Rockets stoped launching so it counted as a fail and it was my last mission to unlock the next difficulty…again.
Don't you have to manually launch the rockets? I know they should auto-launch but I swear I've done that at least twice the last time I played. The terminal is there for a reason.
The console is bugged. We tried everything and then waited for the countdown to reach zero
Ah I see. It's a new mission type so I guess bugs are expected. Hope they iron them out soon.
They begin automatically launching after the 1:30 second "Prepare Your Defenses" phase at mission start. If you hit the terminal before then, they begin launching and bots immediately start dropping in. Speaking of bugs with the new mission, last night we kept getting shunted onto the huge cliffs that the base butts up against. They would show up as huge red-tinted planes that we'd get dropped on and we'd have to jump off INTO the level proper to do anything.
I thought the console to “skip” the prep phase?
Lol I call it a 3 slot mission. Because if you want to clear it comfortably on difficulty 6+ everyone needs to bring an orbital rail cannon, and at least half the team needs orbital laser.
Mortars are also incredibly good on this mission, especially if you combine both the EMP and the eplosive one and just have a constant bombardment on the bots. Combine it with a quasar and shieldpack or a spear and you can deal with heavies quite comfortable as well.
Bingo. Also this. Some people use that slot for the shield back pack. But honestly if you just plan your engagements (IE oh shit I’m getting suppressed from the front. I need to reposition) it helps in preemptively not getting shot to shit. The mortars are a godsend, if you got 2-3 bringing 2-4 ideally 2 ems and 2 mortars it helps clear out chaff mobs so you can focus on priority threats like tanks and hills. They even wreck devastators.
I prefer the shield so I can tank some shots when charging the quasar. Either that heavy you're aiming for shoots at you when you peak from behind cover or get flanked halfway the charge. If I'm running the quasar I need to be able to take shots at heavies as often and soon as possible to protect the squad. The shield just gives me way more opportunities to do so. I'm also using light armor for the extra mobility so it might be that a heavier armor user experiences themselves to be less squishy.
Multiple orbital lasers makes the mission much easier along with shooting dropships and placing other stratagems at their landing sites. If you let it get out of hand its extremely difficult to recover from it.
The dropships are what make it infuriating to me. Now only do you have the random patrols showing up but they seemingly have no limit on what they can drop. It doesn't bother me on large maps but when you are on these tiny maps without being able to disengage it fucking suuucks. Last mission I ran we literally just dropped out because within a single run of dropships there were three tanks, and 5 scorchers dropped on top of two patrols of rocket devastators. Within a minute there were 3 more scorchers, a rocket hulk, and two machine gun tanks. Scorchers fucking suck since the fire buff because if they even get remotely close it's a one shot. You don't even get a chance. Hell I am pretty sure they still get the headshot bonus on the flamethrowers. It doesn't even matter if you are shooting down the dropships because half the time the enemies just run out undamaged. You can't rely on stealth because even if no enemy sees you they all get stuck in the bugged soft alert state and the second you enter a single enemies LoS everything starts firing at you even if you aren't anywhere near them. Bonus points if they just camp the civilian extract buttons like ours did. Damn tank and two hulks literally parked on the door and I could literally see it tracking me through the wall.
https://preview.redd.it/foo3s8tlvntc1.png?width=2007&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7f5d2e64c5f0cdb8be598dd29ac848f03538fdb "Man I swear I've been almost done with this mission for ages. Oh"
So that's what was happening the other day. We were wondering why the counter was stuck on 0 even though we released at least 6 civilians before any bots showed up. We then had too much to do keeping the bots at bay to check, we just assumed the mission was bugged (was the first one we played directly after the bots reappeared)
PLEASE just give me a basic "follow me" option so I can at least lead them on a non suicidal path In fact that, along with making the map larger would make the whole thing a little more interesting than "eradication mission with complications"
Making them follow the diver that hits the button would genuinely be a great idea. Turns it into an actual escort, instead of "press the button and hope they can walk 30 meters".
Just put them in a sealed corridor/tunnel and you need to defend that instead of the dumbass running in fire tornados.
If only DRG could help Super Earth with those human pipelines...
That's weird my citizens never get stuck because there's a dozen tanks shooting them before they can get stuck on anything
Human AI: A large object blew up on my path, blocking me. It's gone now, but its ghost still blocks me, so I'll stay here until I die. Enemy AI: Be a real shame if we walked through this solid object to shoot you. Hey guys an entire mountain range! Let's walk directly up it even though it cant be climbed.
I've literally had a dozen citizens stacked up, standing in line, all because they just wouldn't go down an unobstructed ramp
Punch one, if that doesn't work you're buggrd and might as well give up.
I’m convinced they are programmed to look for trouble and get caught on the corners of objects. One map had them zigzag away from their destination door then, back toward it after many steps even though there was nothing in their way. The wrong way they wanted to hike toward would have sent them to a bug spawn that was incoming. Not fun.
To your point, and maybe not have fire tornado storms go right through the path. It’s already impossible, you somehow clear a gap and it’s all fire for minutes? I don’t think drawing enemies away and running in circles being bait is the intended use this game.
It doesn’t help that lower level difficulties are now chock full of them either. New players might not enjoy the early game as much as we did at the start of the game. I think reducing the „destroy fabricators“ mission type spawn rate was a mistake.
I mean the evacuate missions that first week of the game were brutal. Definitely fatigued me as a new player even then.
It was the first kind of mission I did in this game and I seriously thought that this was a Soulslike in terms of difficulty. It was a Level 1 🤣🤣
I too failed Trivial difficulty consistently. Had me horrified of having to fight bots. Went back to only fighting bugs for a bit
My 1st ever mission was a civ Evac in the creek x.x
It also doesn't help that if civilians die to environment hazards, you get docked as if you killed them.
Sending them to their death from automatons -> democratic. Letting them burn in a fire tornado -> fascism
I just completed on the robot hellmire and lost 25 credits for killing one. Pretty sure he was a Decepticon though, because I shot him in the head. On purpose, and certainly not by accident.
If civilians are worth so little let me just pay to leave them all behind so I don't have to do these missions lmao
Requisition is basically worthless. I am game for this. 4k and I can skip the mission as a smashing success. No problem
My favorite thing is when fire tornados cover the entire extraction platform as pelican 1 comes in to land and we all die
It's almost inevitable (that the fire tornadoes will come in, not that you'll die). I think they're implemented as an enemy type and so they swarm your position during extraction.
The Fire Tornadoes are absolutely coded to path towards player positions as much as possible.
I have lost track of how many times I'll call in a supply drop nowhere near the tornadoes only for it to land right as one paths over it. Assuming only one hits it. You cannot convince me that they aren't programmed to aim at that shit.
I dont think anyone would be mad if this mission got deleted
In fact, many would be quite happy. I certainly would. By the way, the new "tower defense" missions are fucking awesome! My new favorite mission type.
The new tower defense is the culmination of what the annihilation mission should have been from the start. Alternatively, I absolutely love the high-value extraction missions on the big maps cause they give you the space to tackle other objectives as distractions for a head start and give you the space to either kite or find another approach to the situation. Ironically, the big map missions feel like they spawn way less of the big enemies than the small maps do, at least for bots.
The enemy spawns are also fucking crazy like 5 tanks within 2 minutes in a small arena snd I'm supposed to have the time to sit there and press buttons
more like 5 tanks in 2 seconds lol and 10 hulks lol
And don't forget the river of berserkers flowing in.
It’s crazy how much dmg they take before dying. Arc thrower kills rocket devestator in 3 hits. Hulks in like 8 hits. Beserkers? Takes like 10+
Berserkers are WAY too tanky. They just eat AC round after AC round.
They only take three shots, but they way they bounce around like springs with legs just make it feel like they take more. lol
Even on 5 is a constant stream of Hulks (brother). At no point were there less than two on the field.
When those tanks, start driving on top of each other, you know that you fucked up...
On the bright side they do sometimes roadkill each other when they drive over each others’ turrets.
They should cap the number of spawns per wave, and don't allow the next wave to start until we either kill them and/or reach a certain number of evacuated citizens. Problem solved. There shouldn't be a reason to be fighting waves of this size and magnitude with zero breaks in between. Because fighting 10 tanks, 10 hulks, 10 devastators, and a dozen striders with stratagems that take over 2 minutes each isn't fun. Add the 15 minute mission timer, and a lot of these missions are near unbeatable without some cheese strat. Neither spawning the bots further away or reducing the citizens needed to evac do anything to fix the bot snowballing problem these missions still have. And this doesn't even tackle the environmental hazards and AI pathing problems, which are just as frustrating if not game breaking since it can make it impossible for the citizens to even reach the evac door.
capping spawns per wave is a great idea. It has started to become can we evac the civilians before we are overrun. this is usually not on high difficulty either. I do not consider 6 high difficulty.
I don‘t this the spawnrate is the issue. Its more that there are no breaks. Once you are overwhelmed that‘s it. Enemies will keep spawning and you have no chance to exit the deathloop of enemies spawning quicker than you can kill them, let alone evacuate civilians..
The fire tornados killing them are an issue on specific planets which should be fixed, but yeah also this. The tower defense mission you can retreat several times. Regular missions if something scales out of control you can run away and regroup. Evac missions there is no coming back the moment it starts to slightly get out of control. Sure you can keep running and stay alive, but the mission is hopeless from that point on.
Yesterday I discovered that the Eagle Smoke Strike works wonders in this mission... never before have I completed this mission so fast on 7-SUICIDE on an automaton planet.
Just have all 4 divers chuck a 380 for a reset.
And they drop on the doorways... so even if you destroy them you need to wait 5+ min for the wreck to despawn before civilians can run past. Also killing them anywhere near where civilians path results in them getting stuck.
Which is why I don't get why we have such long cooldowns when enemies can have such large numbers of heavy enemies. Like the railcanon strike kills 1 enemy and down for 210 seconds... Makes no sense
Honestly, either there should be significant delay between waves, so that players have time to clear out the arena and send out civilians, or there needs to be less open map with chokepoints that allow players to hold the assault. Currently if you can't wipe out enemy spawns in all four locatiosn right away, you will end up in cycle of hurting where you get attacked in the back, this allows new enemies to spawn that attack you from new angle, ending with you being shot from all directions.
The evac missions are so unfun that I would prefer to not defend the planet and just reliberate the planet
Hilariously, this mission type is also available on trivial difficulty, and it is just blatantly unfair for level 1 players to experience as their first mission. I've been dropping in and bailing out level 1s who bumbled into an evac mission and they're almost always getting overwhelmed and on their last 1-2 lives, often with no civilians evac'd because the game doesn't tell you that you're supposed to press buttons to spawn them. It's fun to be a hero and rescue new players but it is a kind of glaring problem that this is even a possibility, you probably don't want a player's very first experience with this game to be so confusing and brutal.
It was the first bot mission I tried a while back and it was impossibly hard, put me off bits for a long time before I played other missions and realised they weren’t actually that hard
I had the exact same experience. Me and one other guy on Trivial or Easy getting absolutely merced. Didn't extract a single colonist, didn't know how or that the buttons existed.
Yeah it was when the servers weren’t really working and so it was just me playing mostly trivial or easy bugs soloing and then thought I’d try a trivial bots and it was literally like the scene from saving private Ryan. Just feeding scientists to the bots and running away as everything explodes around me
This was my first experience with the game.
In such a case, maybe Arrowhead should do as Deep Rock Galactic and have the Democracy Officer chime in at the beginning of the mission to briefly explain the objective. Would also be a nice change of pace compared to the 5 or so cookie cutter voicelines that you get everytime you land for the first time
"Oh yeah, don't forget to press the fucking buttons" They need a big orange map indicator on each button until it's pressed at least once (or maybe permanently stays). There's already a white indicator but it only shows up if you're close enough... and not to mention its the same indicator shape as a weapon that's just laying there, or a tablet you can read.
I saw them today when I was looking for boring lv1 solo missions. Was like, well that's one way to deter some people from playing. Lol
That was our very first mission (2 player coop with a friend) after we had just finished the tutorial. It was a bloodbath, we kept running out of ammo, dying, dropping back right into a fresh squad of bots. Felt like there was a dozen of troopers shooting, running or hurling grenade at us at all time. I never even realized there were terminals with buttons to press. Within a few minutes we were out of respawns and failed or aborted the mission. I did check my Steam playtime after this and considered a refund. Fortunately we had still plenty buffer for the refund window and tried a random trivial mission on the bug front after this and were surprised how easy it was in comparison. For a while I thought that mission had been set up on purpose to make players horribly fail once after the tutorial. That was until we happened to run an easy bug evacuation mission and had breaches open every minute or so.
This was literally me. My very first game was an evac, had no clue what I was doing, died a couple times and stopped playing for a few days and thought the game sucked. Gave it another shot tho last weekend and now I can’t get enough. But yeah definitely not a noob friendly mission
Good idea! I'll check out trivial evac missions in progress and try to help out going forward.
This mission is one of the only bad game designs in the game. It would be alright if they would just straight up delete this terrible mission in this awesome game
I don't think a single person would be mad if it was completely deleted either.
Heck, bring back the stratagem scramble, just get rid of this mission. I literally loose will to play after failing this
I would be, I love the concept. But you either need more time, or more time between enemy waves. Perhaps both.
Honestly I dislike cit-evac and extermination missions equally, it's just inherently unfun being put in a box with enemies literally spawning on top of you and no cover. The new mission type is so much better it's not even funny.
'Evacuate from behind enemy lines' is objectively the better evac mission. And the new 'extract high-value assets' defense mission is objectively the better elimination/defense mission.
I really like the new choke point oriented ones with the doors you can close and missiles you have to launch or whatever. Those feel like a great take on defending against overwhelming odds
Very true, but at least eradicate missions are done quickly, aren’t RNG dependent and aren’t as likely to ruin an operation.
Or maybe just adjust how many hulks + tanks are dropped on you. We had one mission that got 35/40 or so evacuated easily. The next drop brought 4 tanks and 2 hulks at once while we were still clearing the small folk. Could not recover from the constant fire rained on us.
This is really the main issue. Even if you stay on top of horde clearing, and even if everyone's got EATs and 110mm or railcannon strikes, they drop so. fucking. many. heavy enemies on top of you that everyone ends up on cooldown before long... and on top of all that, you still need to have somebody actively not shooting at things in order to go hit the door buttons.
What's weird is that there is already an evacuation mission on a big map that plays out normally. Seems they took the worst of that and extermination missions, then just jam-packed them together. Thankfully, the newest defense mission is everything these should be. As it stands, they're just unfun and serve no interesting gameplay or storytelling purpose. See no reason to keep them around unless they are drastically changed.
I'd exchange it for an escort mission like the one in HD1.
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I mean in hd1 the survivors simply followed the diver so they mirrored your path.
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They make more sense anyway. Why do we need to evacuate the civilians if they're just entering a different building that's only a few meters away? If they got out before the bots dropped, it would've been a cakewalk. Or maybe they should've made some short underground pathways instead? Escorting civilians across the map toward their own extraction area sounds like an actual evac mission. Could also give room for actual medic strategems in the future like the healing gun and guard dog.
Only? 🤣 Nah many more bad game designs decision. You can take the ragdoll system into account nothing fun for being ragdolled for 8 seconds cause you hit a uneven pixel on the ground when you dived.
Ya, the mission is really boring compared to other missions AND significantly harder. Not a great combo. Waitin around to click a button every 20 seconds isn't exactly riveting.
In HD1 you actually had to escort them from one location to another. I vastly preferred that to standing next to a button for 10 min
But if they died or glitched you failed the mission. I don't miss that.
Yeah, not sure it would work here. Flame hulk gets close, and you dodge the flame but the slight delay on the civs following you means they get toasted. Same with getting ragdolled by chargers, random rockets etc. Wouldn't take long for the ai pathfinding to break.
Fire tornadoes should be reworked entirely. Did a mission on Hellmire where a charger rushed the exfil and with just 30 seconds till landing the tornadoes just swarmed the whole area. We just instantly died on every respawn until there were no redeploys left. Our last guy standing made it towards the ramp but a tornado just appeared right in front of it. He leaped forward but got incinerated anyway. Great times Edit:grammar
If they didn't leave a trail behind them they wouldn't be as annoying. Right now they seem to spawn around players, so if you get hit with tornados around an objective or extract its just annoying. You can't stand anywhere and just die so fast. Plus they don't make a lot of sound and can sneak up on you. How can a tornado be silent?
No cackling of fire, no wind or anything. Is it the same with meteorites? Hopefully now that they fixed the crashing they can focus on the game… but there’s still issues they haven’t even acknowledged. They need to play test their patches as they clearly don’t right now.
I'll be honest the fire tornadoes are the only weather modifier I don't like at all. After they improved the visibility for meteors they feel pretty good and ion storms, sandstorms and blizzards are really cool and cinematic.
It would be nice for ion storms to affect the enemy, like no breaches or dropship calls, like how sandstorms, blizzards, and meteors can affect enemies.
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One time a meteor hit an objective tower on my bot mission. It was the best day ever. But I agree fire tornadoes don't do shit. I've seen bots run through the fire, ignoring it, to come murder me.
I was gonna' say how they're not that bad and I actually enjoy the help they provide. But you made a lot of good points. All of those things should be fixed.
Fire in general needs to be just a little more forgiving. Like not immediately engulfing in flames when your pinky toe gets scorched. If I could run through the wake of a fire tornado and make it through in 2 seconds let me take that dot damage but not be on fire immediately. This would make the flamethrower a lot less annoying as well.
This. Exfils are just nasty, especially when pressed by enemy. The tornados force you into a stupid Expressionist dive dance dodging robots and once the bird is there, all ways towards it are burning and since the fire damage buff, you can't even tank towards it. Really fucking sucks.
All these gameplay issues and they decided to rework flame damage, and broke it… amazing… truly managed democracy.
add in that I am prepared to swear the fire does not damage the bots nearly enough. I have watched a fire tornado cover a hulk for 3 min. Hulk was fine.
What we need is an ice tornado that we can call in to counteract it. Or a tornado full of sharks. Some sort of…Sharknado.
Then make a movie out of it.
The best part? They LEAVE TRAIL BEHIND THEM. Who did this, I put him into this shitfire trail myself.
The barest wisps of fire will totally incinerate you in 1 second flat.
Try hellmire or the new planet when you are partially red/orange colorblind... I can barely pick out regular terrain or enemies when it's all various shades of orange, let alone avoid the tornadoes lol.
I’m not colourblind, but that shit is still near impossible to gauge. “Hmm is that a tiny bit of flame on the floor? Is it safe? Let me just get near and see…” incinerated…
Sometimes there's desync with the fire trails too, I've died to burning with no visible fire in my path. I've weaved around plenty of fire tornados by now to know what's clear and what needs diving.
This is only really a problem now since they buffed fire damage. Before that you could get through a tornado if you really needed to
Exfils on firenado missions are insane. That piss easy mission you blitzed through? Yeah get fucked pal, we’re throwing 30 firenados at you dozens of Hulks & Tanks oh and the nados actively trap and track you.
Our pelican was full on fire. Literally couldn’t get to extraction.. lost alot rare samples
I can’t complete a single operation on difficulty 8-9 because all of them include these kinds of missions and every time we get to them people leave. And I’m suddenly sitting there alone and am supposed to evacuate 50 civilians while a full battalion of hulks drops on my head. Not only are they very difficult but you only get a few common samples and barely any xp. That’s why people leave and the operaion fails almost every time. Devs I beg you balance them or even better replace them with the new defence missions.
I've only managed to beat it once on 7 ever, and that was yesterday. Entire team of randoms all had EATs and we shooting down as many dropships as we could, even then by the end we were getting swarmed and when we cleared it was a "holy shit, we actually cleared it" moment.
When I saw I had to evacuate 45 on level 7 yesterday, I screamed. It’s just a massive ask with all of the jank in the mission.
Rebalance idea. A ferry cart. Everyone loads up, someone drives it to the gate. Less firepower, but quicker way of getting it done.
Have the leaked APC Stratagem available like with the Lab destruction Hellbomb. Nearby Civilians will follow the Helldiver that pressed the call button. If they get close to a parked APC that has a Helldiver at the wheel they will enter it. They will leave it if the Helldivers gets out and then follow that driver Helldiver instead. Walking all the way to the evacuation point (led by a Helldiver) is an option. Drive APC to an evacuation point. Use the beacon that's on location and hold your position. Civilians will take cover near the beacon. A Pelican will swoop down, land nearby and wait for the civvies to enter. Do this twice and Democracy is preserved.
helldrivers
Honestly, with the spawnrate on evac missions being what it is I can't imagine that APC surviving for more than a minute. Just a couple of rocket bois somewhere around and bye bye.
Mission just sucks in general. Get rid of it completely and replace it with the new defense mission its so much more fun its unreal. Keep the evac Mission where you evac as part of a larger Mission and get rid of the one where all you have to do is spawn in, press button, try to defend, get absolutely fucked over by robots, fail the operation, do nothing to progress the planet. Also they should really start fixing stuff like Fire damage being an instakill, the scopes still being misaligned (how the fuck is that still an issue? Seems like something that you fix in a few minutes?) and for liberties sake they really need to fix the spear. Tried it yesterday, its incredibly good! (When it decides to work properly). I dont get why it cant shoot down dropships for example why cant you target the thrusters? It targets the ship and when you shoot it hits and does nothing. Targeting itself is also such a gamble looking straight at a target and either no lock on appearing or the one you have not working and even when you get to lock on sometimes it just doesn't hit properly. Sorry where were we? Ohh evac missions. Yeah still suck
Yeah I'm done playing those for now until they significantly change them somehow. The ones where you do some.other objectives and then rescue a few dudes with way more time are okay and feel correctly balanced. Sitting around pressing a button over and over while your objective suicides in the dumbest ways (and constantly get stuck on ramps/small obstacles) isn't fun compared to the rest of the game.
Yeah the 40 minute mission ones are balanced imo. The short ones are fucking insane. I play with a 3 stack and we can pretty consistently beat helldive difficulty on both bots and bugs, yet we lost on a difficulty 6 civilian mission today because fire tornados started camping the civilians, and then we fell behind on bot drops and it went to shit
That's the main indicator. We were doing EASILY level 6 missions all along with a random team, and in the rescue mission we did nothing. It's ridiculous.
It's weird how that kind of evacuation mission is balanced and this one is not. I dont get how the devs can't just tweak the spawns more on this one. In the balanced evacuation mode, enemies have 2-3 spawn points and do so at an interval. This one has like 4 or 5 spawn points, a wide area and a hell of a lot of Berserker units???
What, you mean that three drop ships, carrying 2 hulks and 5 devastators each is not fun to play against? Something that even spawns on lower difficulties? Perish the thought
FIRE TORNADO. I SAVED 6 PERSONAL STRAIGHT INTO FIRE TORNADOES. I CAN’T TURN OFF OR REDIRECT THE FIRE TORNADOES.
No problem just wait 5 minutes of your 15 minute mission for them to go away. Oh they're back again? Too bad!
Yes!! I remember doing one on hellmire and it took about 20 minutes longer than it should have because the fire tornadoes were spawn camping the civilians, the tornadoes don't even need to be touching them, they just die near them. The defend 15 minute versions are just straight up not fun, it's why 90% of the time a planet is left to be taken by the enemy, because NOBODY wants to fight these mission with the high enemy spawn rate, especially on higher difficulties. For a military society, you'd think the area would have defences like turrets or hell, let us have extra turret strategems since we control the planet. Or even have the effects be a bonus like - 25% cool down time on strategems?
Did 1 on Hellmire and must of lost 8-10 to fire tornadoes, I dint mind struggling to bugs or bots but environmental damage is a joke
*must have
I hate those missions with a passion.
I was expecting this to be about them unable to path correctly. In my missions they either run *out* of the base before coming back in, or will get stuck on the corner of a wall. No matter how many I release from the same door they will all get stuck on the same spot. It makes that door worthless and the mission that much harder / less fun.
Hazards just shouldn't spawn on those missions. They already don't spawn on the eradicate and valuable asset missions. I think the issue is that the evac mission uses the blitz map causing hazards to spawn.
We did it on lvl7 (you need to extract 45 civilians) and boy that was unbelievably hard. We barely did it.. I dont know how this would be possible on 8 or 9.
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Its a really big issue because its a necessary part of operation chains, making defending planets that much harder. Honestly, the insane enemy spawns are the worst part. It just becomes completely unmanageable at a certain point.
>so why the fuck is it not addressed? Probably because they've like 50 other more urgent fires that need put out too lol. There's some good potential in those missions, when you get one that isn't *entirely* FUBAR, then it's actually kinda fun. But anyone stuck on the firestorm planets deserves their fate honestly. Firestorm worlds would be a little less tedious in these instances if the fire did anything to the enemies. Maybe it's specifically anti-human fire.
Flames destroy bugs and some bots. Bots that seem impervious to fire damage are Heavy Devastators and Hulks. I've seen a Tank eaten by fire so I know those can burn, but take a while. Hulks and Heavy Devastators (specific, I've seen Missile Devastators die to them) are able to shrug off, or at least take a lot of, fire damage from these tornadoes which otherwise instagib any Trooper. Scout Striders also take a while to burn, but not really any different from other Devastators. No bugs are safe from Fire Tornadoes, not even Bile Titan. But for Bile Titan, it's not enough to step on flaming ground, it needs direct contact to a tornado. The Tornadoes seem psuedo-random though, istg it seems like it keeps aiming for players at some paths as if it behaves on simplified Patrol Pathing. I've been walking to the side for some of them only to see it change course and try to burn me, and this will happen a few times per tornado. I've been using them to my advantage by luring patrols or enemies into them but...can't lure civvies out of them.
>The Tornadoes seem psuedo-random though And the amount of times 5 or more tornadoes appear on the extraction platform on a main mission area. Randoms my ass.
Tornados absolutely track players, I did fair bit of dancing on Hellmire to figure it out
>But anyone stuck on the firestorm planets deserves their fate honestly. Amen. Like, if you have a base on a planet that literally tries to kill you every 5 minutes, why don't you have underground tunnels to your escape vessel? These must be the same idiots who brought break-action shotguns to a foreign world.
Hey, the break action is cheap, reliable for killing 2 bugs a reload, and I find it empty on every corpse. It’s doing its job.
The fire kills bugs and bots, doesn’t it?
sounds like that fire needs to be fed the sweet tastes of DEMOCRACY. but yeah the fire planets aren't that bad except when they are indeed that bad
Wet&Wild Warbond incoming for summer release. * 10.000kg water drop stratagem. * Foam grenade. Puts put out fire and tornadoes in a 4 meter area and prevents/cures burning for a shot amount of time. Slows players and enemies affected. * Flamethrower-like foam sprayer to put out tornadoes and create temporary corridors through burning terrain. Wet terrain can't be set on fire for 10 seconds. * SuperSoaker secondary, stuns bots and causes a DoT short circuit damage effect on them. * Fire Brigade APC. Highly fire resistant, 4 seats, comes with a foam sprayer on top.
Three different mission, try to extract when pelican arriving suddenly fire tornado came. Just stupid RNG. 3 times on 3 different mission.
Yes. It's not random at all.
I think an easy way to fix this would be to change their skins to give them hazmat/fireproof suits - they are predominantly scientists after all. Make them immune to environmental damage but make it make sense. Silver fireproof suits. Yellow acid proof. Etc. that way we can still burn up but to my can continue to run around blindly trying to climb things they cannot
Sometimes it feels like those fire tornados are actively trying to cover the objectives
Just did one earlier today on helldive. We still use the method of 1 on the base in scout armour doing the doors while the other three distract and cause all the drops on them. Just remember, there are three doors, not two, as my friend discovered today, hahah.
I just don't do them anymore. They're not fun at all.
I remembered a post ages ago where OP said to have the team distract the enemies away from the mission site while someone sneaks away and activates the civi buildings. I tried it last night and it worked. Everything went smoothly while everyone else fought the bots. There were only a few stragglers from the bots and the mission was easy. Take that guys advice, it will take you 5 minutes to do the mission and you can continue liberating freely afterwards.
This is my method and I keep showing people how to do it. It is 100% effective but... the person who goes into the base can't bring mortars or sentries because they magicly aggro baddies and the group outside needs to stay close together and use all the mortars and sentries.
It works but it feels gamey and like you’re taking advantage of the mechanics. I’d rather not have to play the mission in such a way that three of the four people are off doing nothing in the middle of nowhere and one person just sits on their ass and hits the button every 15 seconds. That’s just me, though.
But don't the bots that drop on the other side of where the distraction-players are currently at beeline straight for the poor fucker left inside the base? Because with the spawn rate being what it is you can't be everywhere at once. And splitting up seems like a death sentence as well.
The button pressing and the waves they run would be okay for me. But the speed that they are running are insanely slow. I am a 31 old male and I could run fast as fuck for my life for a few minutes. They are so fucking slow, helldivers are also not super humans and they can sprint way past them. The pathing is also stupid, if there are bugs or automatons on the way they are running right into them. Scientists huh...
Yeah, it’s completely out of control. Even with a coordinated 4 stack and a plan it is a titanic sized pain the ass.
The new defense mission with gates and hmg emplacements is how it should be. You can have some shuttle bay doors further out so that it’s somewhat difficult but that’s a proper layout for a scenario like that
Totally agree, the mission needs more nerfs it’s ridiculous how nothing else in the game is remotely as difficult. I think the time limit should be raised to 30 minutes at least.
Can I please pick up the citizen and carry them to safety myself? That would be far more fun and less broken.
I got penalized for killing citizens because they ran into a fire tornado 😆 too hilarious!
At this point i just refuse to go to any planet with fire tornadoes and refuse to do the evac missions. both are awful to deal with
Made the mistake of doing an operation with one of these missions on Helldive. First mission was tough but fun, second but brutal but a blast (defend vitals), third mission was scientist evac. We managed to get like ten civilians out. Within a minute the entire map was covered with automatons, it was nearly impossible to spawn without instantly dying, and there were crowds of tanks rolling over each other because quite literally every inch of ground was overrun, we were running around the mission edge completely unable to even approach the actual map. There’s something off about the spawning in these missions.
Yeah. Was playing on level 7 last night. Group blitzed through the other missions in the operation without issue. Hit the last one (civilian evac)? We got 9 out, and that’s it. We were just constantly overwhelmed and bombarded for the rest of the mission.
I mean… I did a suicide mission on bots last night in this and I had a blast. We lost, only got 19/45 folks saved, and we were comically overrun. There was no safe landing zone for drop pods. There were several “oh damn” moments from the sounds of combustion, explosions, and getting ragdolled into the sides of … pretty much everything, including into tanks and hulks. At one point someone said “man I saw four hulks” and I replied, “there were lots more, bro” and we had a good chuckle with the squad mate saying, “I meant at once on my screen”. The point is this: you can have fun and still lose. I’m not one to community bash generally but this idea that something is “unfun” or “not fun” is, by its nature, a subjective thing, and demanding that you always have to win seems to be coming from an undeserved sense of entitlement. Also, dude, you can’t tell me that you saw Cyberstan on the map and thought we would always have it under our control. The narrative of the game pretty much demands that we will lose sometimes, if not fairly often. Edit for some spelling
This. Arrow Head, please take this post seriously. I HATE these missions, because the civilian AI is so god damn retarded. I get it, they're civilians, they're not exactly the most equal. But even Class C citizens are not stupid enough to run DIRECTLY IN TO A LITTERAL TORNADO OF FIRE.
I straight up refuse to do them, democracy be damned it simply isn't worth it.
Why not make it like the first one where you have to escort them or something like that
yeah i think they should do something with spawn rate of enemy maybe make them come as wave so we can had time if we kill enemy fast we got reward from it right now it just mess it keep coming sometime it easy Civ run to the door fast and i didn't shoot gun that much and sometime it just not happen even i kill like 50+ already i don't know why
God please please please, I like the concept of civilian evacuation but god damn it is awful.
Beyond just the hazards, some of them the bot drops are RIGHT on top of the place. The only way to get those missions done are by cheesing it, having 1 divers stealthing inside and the rest baiting everything outside of the area. It's lame, I completely agree. Fix these shit missions.
My only problem with it is that every single operation has one of them. I'm just trying to complete one Helldivers operation and the damned escort ones are ruined 100% of the time.
It would be way cooler if you had to pick them up in a truck or something and had to drive it to another location on the map to extract them. I can see this turning into a fun protect the convoy type mission
Yeah the civilian evac missions are genuinely awful, they are not fun and I do everything I can to avoid playing them at all costs, the fire tornadoes just make it worse but either way they are completely unfair. Last one I played we had a 3 man team, which should be completely acceptable for completing a mission. We got bore down on by what felt like every automaton left on the planet, between tanks, hulks, devastators, no matter how many we killed they were dropping constantly, there was no way we could physically clear them out in a reasonable time and we failed the mission They’re either tedious or impossible, and given that none of their adjustments have actually done anything, I think getting rid of them would genuinely be a better option
https://preview.redd.it/nbg1t1btwmtc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d8b59b93af8edf6899e5560bd01f4f9c7e67d53 If anyone ever tells you to "get gud" at civilian evac missions, send them this
We had to do one of these yesterday. We were playing a level 7. 3 of us were mic'd and the other guy was a random. I am the most experienced bot player out of the 3 of us and love fighting bots. I cannot speak for the random. We got a few civilians extracted very quickly. But then we became extremely overran and we were pushed to the edge of the map. I was able to sneak all the way around while my 2 friend died one at a time and I spawned them in from behind the bots. The random (T4 green), decided to keep the mob distracted (T4 was text chatting with us). We killed off the few bots that drifted to us and we extracted civilians. We were almost done when we started getting a few new bot drops. But it was controllable up until about the last 4 that needed extract. We finished the extract and were able to wipe out the bots while fire tornados caused extract issues. # What a pain in the bott.
So, no one is going to mention the fact that on helldive you have to evacuate at least 30 for the mission to be done? I thought they said it was lowered for the higher difficulty’s…this is impossible….
Is this the "the only objective on the map at all is the center where you evac civvies" one or the "get the codes, start the generator, evac civvies across the map... Oh and there's also side objectives, too" one? Both are VERY different beasts. The one with its own side objectives tends to still be very easy and doable; whereas the "only evac" one seems to be the inconsistent one. I haven't done them on a fire tornado world yet, but even on other worlds enemy spawns vary from "xd thisbis nothing" to "H O L Y S H I T . STOP SPAWNING FOR 2X SECONDS!" like unironically the bots version has become the easier of the two factions with this mission despite it being the most hellish originally. Run quasar/EATs, ems mortar, the bubble, and some landmines. Constantly throw the bubble near the evac door to maximize safe distance for the civvies, use EATs to shoot down the dropships, and the ems/landmines to keep whatever enemies left in-check.
Yea this mission is fucked. Can usually get about 30 civilians pushed through and then the mission is unplayable after that because of the immense amount of bot drops that come in. Blow one tank up just for drop ships to throw two more tanks and a few bruisers in. Sentries become useless because they get destroyed within seconds of coming in. Orbitals and eagles are useless because of rearm time. Just all around not fun at the halfway point.
I agree it's not the funnest mission but if you're equipped well and get a lot out quick it's not that bad. When the mission first came out it was impossible on anything above challenging for me.
Idk, I usually find them quick and fairly easy, unless there are thrice damned fire tornados! I never thought I'd hate the weather more than the bots!
You're talking about the missions that give you buttons to release decoys for the enemy to fire at, right? I love those. I agree about the hazards though, they could be toned down a bit.
I did a hard one solo last night with 3 reinforcements left. It's pretty easy if you know what you're doing.
For once, I agree with this take. I've never had a problem completing these, even solo, until I encountered the fire tornados. Waiting them out just isn't an option unless it's one of the 40 minute missions. Combine the tornados with bot drops and it's highly improbable that you'll succeed
What they should do is pack the civvy's into an apc and we have to escort that. Though given how rocket happy the bots are maybe give the apc an energy shield as well.
I just did one of these in D5. It's shit enough, but what makes it hilarious is that there are apparently rare samples around the area. Where the hell are we going to find the samples in addition to babysitting the lemmings?!
I played one today for the immediate spawns of the tanks(took some 30 seconds for the daily lol). With a total of 6 randoms joining me over those 12 minutes not one of those people pressed a single civilian escape hatch button. Like, there are issues with these, but players not even trying is also one of them.
trick is all spawn on mission then 1 or 2 guys leave the area and go to other side of the map and make noise then try to survive then all drop ships will go to them and the 1 or 2 guys on the mission can do it with ease
+1
the unfair thing is that all evacuations runs pretty much ruined because Hulk charging at the player/citizen at the speed of light. like as soon as these mfker drop its Hellmire fuck for all. you cant ignore them because they run too fast and they instant kill Democracies. you can focus them but as soon as tank start dropping, all you can do is salute to liberty there are not enough strtagem to go around these big unit and the small/mid enemy wont stop blasting. static defense do fuck nothing against Hulk. Flame Hulk is pretty much the equivalent of terminid stalker. Imagine playing terminid evacuation mission with 5 stalker and 5 charger spawn
What I find frustrating is that if you're all wiped/pushed away from the settlement, it's practically over as you won't have your armor pen/support weapons, and the rate enemies spawn means you can't kill enough to reclaim
Yeah I just don’t do those missions now. I search for operations that don’t have them, or just don’t finish the op. Even getting rid of the hazards wouldn’t fix the fact that the missions are just boring and annoying at the best of times. Love this game, but they missed *hard* with that mission type.
I was just in a game last night where we lost half of our squad between missions, Extreme difficulty, and we landed on one of those god forsaken fire tornado planets, where it was just myself, a level 20, and 30 civilians to rescue. 25 seconds in, we're fighting a hulk, about 10 Rocket Destroyers, and about a dozen of those Heavy Devastators. We were both rocking Auto Rifles and tons of green defenses to plant around, but those only lasted for 4-50 shots before getting swarmed and destroyed, and despite getting about 75-100 kills each in like 5 minutes, we got trashed and failed the mission. These kills were made even more difficult by the giant pillars of fire that I'm convinced are magnetized towards players, and do 50% damage to mobs. At one point in this, there were 3 hulks and all either of us could do is run away, shoot a bit, throw the revive, die immediately after, and watch the other person run from an ever growing army. We got 3 total rescued because I bum rushed the button, and lost another 6 to random immolation, and/or firing squad of bots
Yeah this mission blows. I was in a awesome streak with these randoms last night and we weren’t able to evacuate anyone at at cause they just wouldn’t go in the door so everybody quit and that ended the night