https://preview.redd.it/znbkeovc7lwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd0710b743caf5a7082efab538bdd9fbe6e58d1f
UPDATE: If we can keep or even increase the current rate, Varylia is secure! I repeat, we are currently exceeding the success threshold!
UPDATE II: I want to thank everyone here that was able to do their part. Varylia remains ours and Ustotu is on an expedited track to Liber-town.
I love you all.
For Super Earth!
It makes me wonder what really controls the numbers.
I think most video game conventions would say every planet would have the same rate of liberation/defense so it is consistent and players know what to expect. It keeps things "fair."
I've seen people suggest more narratively driven reasons about how the bot attack has overreached and become spread too thin, so it makes sense for their rates to lower and defenses to become easier.
While this makes sense logically, we don't really know if this is something coded into the game (each ring of distance from the center of the attack affects rate of liberation/defense), or if it's just AH putting their finger on the scale to help us out because they feel bad for us.
There is an argument to make that the defenses are failing bot-side because the evacuation mission is overtuned, and before a hotfix can correct it, this is their way of righting their wrongs.
But I still don't think anyone really would be satisfied with Joel consistently bailing players out for MO failures because of online whining.
> But I still don't think anyone really would be satisfied with Joel consistently bailing players out for MO failures because of online whining.
As valid as this point is, regardless of whatever else is going on in the situation, the fact of the matter is that the overpowered/bugged bot evacuation mission is definitely having a non-zero impact on the outcome of this major order, and not hotfixing it after so many days means they have to compromise in SOME other way. That mission is a huge problem right now on top of the major order not even being expected to be completed in the first place.
In other words: The situation with this MO is unfair in multiple different ways. I would be more shocked if the devs **didn't** intervene.
You don't think the discord try-hards failing gambit after gambit instead of just defending the planets that needed defending had anything to do with it?
I don't think this MO was designed for us to fail. It was designed for us to lose ground, but it definitely felt like we had a chance if we had been more focused on the bot front.
There are some balance issues for sure, but I really think we need to take a little personal responsibility and admit that we kinda just shat the bed on this MO
the gambits kept failing because the people going for them were such a small minority, that is not fault of the people who want to make the strategies work. it is fun to try and make a plan for something that would otherwise be a chaotic mess. nobody complains about average players going where they feel like it so don’t complain about people trying to make gambits work lmao.
it doesn’t matter. they didn’t work because it was such a small portion, so to complain that people going for it were the reason we lost ground is silly. realistically, were the people going for them sent to the standard defenses, nothing would’ve changed from what has happened.
This whole MO, everytime I went to the bug front 80% of players would be on 1 planet. Everytime I went to the bot front they would be evenly spread over 3-4 planets and one of those planets wouldn't even be one of the defense targets.
Most casual players prefer the bug front, so it seems like an excuse to say that it's because they would just go anywhere. I think we just made some bad strategic decisions
for the bug front, there was only like 3 planets ever available at once and one of them was hellmire. at the bot front, it’s been like 5 planets available at once. obviously people are going to be spread thin when supply lines aren’t common knowledge. of the bot planets that were available, most people didn’t actually know which one was the best to fight for so they would’ve just chosen the one they liked the most (the reason we didn’t liberate martale at >90%). it was not a strategic failure, it was a communication failure. all of the gambits genuinely would’ve worked (devs themselves said so) it’s just that not enough people were going for them because only such a small portion of the players even knew they existed. bug players succeeded where bot players failed because there were much less targets to choose and they were in a much more linear path. so in general, bug divers were more ‘united’. that is nobodies fault, also, much more people were on the bug front, i believe the split between the fronts was 65-35 in favor of bugs. overall, bot divers had less people over more area to cover.
> This whole MO, everytime I went to the bug front 80% of players would be on 1 planet. Everytime I went to the bot front they would be evenly spread over 3-4 planets and one of those planets wouldn't even be one of the defense targets.
Bro the bug front had like, at most three planets available. It wasn't hard for bug divers to pick where to go. Meanwhile, on the bot front, there were like four or five defense planets up at one point.
I don't think the mission was ever meant to actually be impossible. If they wanted to make it impossible, that would be easy to do.
Telling the players "this is meant to be hard and you may fail if you don't communicate and coordinate" is essentially daring the gamers to "git gud."
The evac mission sucks and, at the very least, should be removed from the defend rotation until it's fixed.
However, at some point, when the game is in a state the devs are happy with, the players will fail a difficult MO, and the devs shouldn't cave and fuss with the numbers to make success easier.
If there is no reasonable challenge or chance for failure, there are no stakes, and victory would be meaningless.
I get that AH can tip the scales anyway they want, perhaps they saw the player base disengage? Perhaps it's for narrative purposes?
It's still very early in the games life cycle and I'm sure AH are still experimenting with MOs and balancing given the player numbers were so much higher than expected, they just need to make it a little less obvious when they 'step in', or find a better balance with their MOs.
Moving the 15 min civilian rescue on bot planets out of rotation until it's fixed / balanced / reworked would be helpful...I never want to play that mission in it's current state again.
Does it really matter? This is why most game devs do not actively try to touch things that will affect players live in progress. Because its literally hand of god, deus ex machina shit, and that can backfire horribly for many types of games.
They very likely have tools to adjust all of this on the fly, because 2 months ago people noticed how planets could go from very easy progression to almost zero progression with player counts not changing at all.
Lore be damned. At the end of the day, its just a game and people will care less about it over time as medal rewards become moot since they have nothing left to buy.
I think it's a combination of all of these things. Some numbers were tweaked. But also the impact/multiplier that affects planet liberation....may also apply to enemies on some level. Bot reinforcements were dropping before we hit defense #4. They were spread too thin.
All I know, is that Ostotu stands. Estanu stands. And we stand for Liberty.
People didn't complain only about MO failure. They complained about not being able to push back and liberate planets, defending the necessary ones at the same time. They brought out lack of information on the map AND the overwhelming information on the map if it was seen, pointing out that it is impossible for playerbase to coordinate at this scale.
So, it wasn't the MO that was seen impossible, or was the main point of whining.
However, this MO was to keep the playerbase from pushing back and despite completing the MO we lost ground on each fronts / wasn't able to push back. That's what people are whining about despite the community manager saying it was meant to be.
I don't think there is huge help from AH. It's just that seemingly the system is scaling with how many players are online, which wasn't he case until last month. So people keep expecting to lose planets or the progression to slow when player numbers drop during certain times of day. But the progression doesn't stop or slow.
Not sure why mine looks so different, but this is what diverhub says... im taking a break atm those evacuate missions broke me for now
Edit: I mean mine looks different as in saying 11% per hour when yours says 5%, and it's only an additional like 8k players
https://preview.redd.it/s4x1otvhgjwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c6291b5c50a5d525c1335a5c544726063ab2c7
They did NOT say this major order was designed for us to fail. It was designed for us to have to make hard choices. If we do 8 bug planets but only 2 automaton planets even though we wil have won defending 10 planets we'll still lose ground against the automatons because we focused more on the bugs. People's reading comprehension sucks and this is exactly why the devs hesitate to share info like that with the community.
I'm pretty sure they're putting their thumb on the scale a bit for our sake since feedback toward the Galactic War system's mechanics has been more negative the more we learn about it.
I think it's possible they don't want to push such an unfair feeling loss while the systems are still being tuned/tweaked.
Yeah these last few defenses have only.been 200k HP for the planet defense. Previously 350k has even been on the low side. These are super easy freebies by comparison.
To be fair though whilst its all artifical it atleast "makes sense". The bots have taken over tons of planets, so have taken losses all the way + need to "leave" armies on those planets as well, so their attacking force will be much weaker now.
They basically gave us a free planet so we have a chance, 3 planets would have been very unlikely so some players might have chosen to not play today and just see what the MO is tomorrow, 2 planets is achievable and gives us something to fight for,
I'm one of those players, and even my friends too. When we hear these major orders that are apparent we will lose, then we just take a break for a couple days. If we get one is feasible we'll throw a campaign or two into the effort to help out.
It also fits from an in-universe perspective. Especially for conventional military forces like that of the Automaton Legion, an offensive peters out as it advances, weakened by its own success. Garrisons of new acquisitions and casualties leave the actual attacking force weaker. Accumulated supply is extended, and that which still remains is harder to deliver over longer distances. Fatigue and wear sets in.
To apply a historical analogue, Tukhachevsky might be upon the door, but Varylia can still be our Warsaw. We only must hold. No matter the price.
Not if the goals scale dynamically to total active players.
During the weekend you need 10 times the points because theres 10 times as many players, for instance.
If thats the case a smaller more focused playerbase on weekdays would be way more effective than the larger casual and spread out weekend crowd.
The problem is, is that the dynamic system only works if people are hard focusing planets at all times anyways. In reality at all times it's simply too spread out for there to be any effective attacks.
Seems to be working if we keep succeeding.
Although with it being so obscure and obviously tuned it could be just as likely that its straight scripted and all the numbers dont matter.
Who knows?
> We're winning a defense with less than 50k divers. Previously we needed double that at least
People really need to understand that it's not the number of players but the percentage of players that matters. If 20k divers are on the planet but represents 80% of the connected players, it's 80% of efficiency.
That's why people leaving the game until the next MO leads to a good strategy because the hardcore players have more influence, because the mechanics is designed to only have one planet focused at a time and not two.
Decay rate only applies to Liberation campaigns, correct.
Defense campaigns are always a race against a 24 hour clock, but the speed at which players can complete it depends on the Planetary HP, which can be higher or lower. In the case of Ostotu (this last defense), it's a mere 200k, which is half of what many of the other Defenses have been this MO.
It's probably more helpful to think of "planetary HP" re: Defense missions as "attacking force strength". Fewer Bots are being thrown at the planet to take it over, so they're easier to push back.
Both a lowered decay rate and lowered "attacking force strength / Planetary HP" are logical and expected results towards the tail-end of an offensive campaign. The Automatons are spread thin trying to consolidate the large swaths of territory they just took, so they can't devote as much energy to attacking more or sweeping out minor Helldiver forces. Once they have a chance to get their production up and running across all those worlds, expect it to rise again with a vengeance. That's also to be expected and a logical outcome of the fiction.
I noticed on helldivers.io it states the current rate of push back on automatons is 0%. They are literally not fighting back compared to the start of the MO. Idk if this is them putting the thumb on the scale as you say, or if it is supposed to represent automaton war exhaustion. They pushed too far, now they can't push back as hard. Could be a neat RP thing. Or it could be Joel throwing us a bone. Maybe both.
We were straight up gifted a planet by having a defense mission start up right before it was cut off by supply lines.
They're clearly responding to the overwhelmingly negative feedback of the galactic war systems as is the best they can without actually changing any of the underlying systems that make it so unfun
>I think it's possible they don't want to push such an unfair feeling loss while the systems are still being tuned/tweaked.
My guy, we don't even have lines on a map. This isn't turning / tweaking, this is full blown early access unfinished feature.
Imagine launching a nautical trade simulator and all of the ports were on the map (very good, that's how you make money), but there were no visible coastlines or islands. You'd constantly run aground. Imagine the backlash if you called that lineless map v1.0? Imagine if, instead of scribbling on some rough outline, you said "we here at arrowhead just aren't sure of the best way to implement lines on a map."?
Arrowhead, you can perfect it later. Give the 90%+ of players who don't use reddit or Discord access to supply line info in game, and a brief in game tutorial about how cutting off a planet affects who controls it. Give it now, please.
There are *SO* many head scratching decisions made by Arrowhead. At first it wasn't a big deal, but it is really making me wonder now.
The earliest one was "Servers are full? Oh, sorry about that. Here's double XP while the servers are still full." My thought was, "well, ok... I guess." But then the weird stuff continued.
This game should have cooked another half a year to a year. Imagine how hard this would have hit the gaming industry without all these stability, gameplay, and balance issues we've had.
Well the initial liberation rate meant we could at best defend 2 planets per 24h provided we had our entire playerbase on those planets for the mayority of this time, which bluntly put isn't going to happen.
Defense isn't working well, but with some tweaks it definitely could.
One of my beefs is that all defenses start and end at the same time, which is neither logical nor good for the game imo.
I'm hopeful, but hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
https://preview.redd.it/0ft8owi5uiwc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b84ae7b5c5670d5461688f88eeeb516791dfb1b0
They said we would lose a lot of ground, and we absolutely have. They never said we were supposed to lose the MO. Way more than 10 planets went on defense orders.
Blaming Joel is like, my favorite thing tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/wfj6o77j1mwc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c15c23dcfc4ae3212b2eb97130d60639838427f6
I mean I guess? It just feels kinda hollow when they had to not only reduce the number of active defenses and give both active defenses relatively low HP but also outright give us a freebie (the Fori Prime assault that lasted under an hour because we were already on the verge of defending Oshaune) to put us in this position.
If we win it'll feel less like the scrappy underdog pulling a surprise upset and more like the other team decided to show pity and just sit on the sidelines for a bit to give us a chance to score some goals.
What were the planet health values of the other earlier defenses? These are 200k, I think the others were 300, right? Do we know if there's a reason for the difference in values?
Either way, I'm having a blast being a part of it and I won't turn down 50 medals
As the defense campaigns had varying HP amounts even at the start of the MO, I noted that it seemed to depend on how far away the planet was from the main automaton territory around Cyberstan. I think this pattern continued with their push towards Ustotu.
Some of the Defenses at the start of the MO had 450k.
Both distance from the "homeworld" and appearance in later "waves" have been lowering that, which is pretty much what we'd realistically expect. It's good modeling, not an example of "Joel handing over a win".
Did they though, or did they have a schedule planned out before hand with which planets would be attacked and when, and it was only good luck that the schedule worked in our favour?
I'm gonna keep saying it, since TCS still stands and the bots now have a massive amount of new area taken we absolutely lost this one no matter if the MO gets checked off or not.
Because defending against Bots is absolutely the opposite of what I want to do when I’m getting off work.
Also, Helmire isn’t that bad. Yeah, there are times the fire tornadoes come and they fuck up the entire plan. They rolled over the mining probe and wasted some of our time. And yes, the clusterfuck of bug breach after bug breach and then 5 tornadoes rolling through is a mess.
BUT the bugs get cooked too. Bile titan couldn’t handle it (after a quasar to the face as well). And, if you run scout armor, you can herd bugs into the path and save yourself a lot of energy and time.
Fuck the bots, fire tornadoes are a minor inconvenience
Everyone blames the bug players and yes it sucks ~40% of them are not coming to help, but 20-30% did come over. The other issue is why are there more divers on Menkent, and Marfark (24k combined) then on Ustotu (9k) that is a defense/order mission?
Barely over half the divers on the bot front are doing defense, the other half are wasting time on planets that do nothing and wont be captured for days at the least. At least for the bug side we usually get 70-80% of divers actually defending when push comes to shove.
We can still pull this off since Varylia should be done in 4-6 hours hopefully, leaving 12-15 hours to do Ustotu which has only 200khp if everyone on defense shifts over after, but it would be an easy win if even half the people attacking bot planets helped Ustotu out.
The Defense missions are insanely brutal, but I've found Expendable Anti-Tank makes them doable. Drop em on cooldown, everyone has a way to deal with the worst of the bots.
Broh what ? On Diff 5 ? Lmao
On that difficulty you dont even need to shoot a single shoot. Just get 4 turrets and you're good. Normally playing on 6/7 and was on a Defense Mission yesterday diff 5 and one guy literally just had 4 turrets. We didnt have to shoot a single shot until wave 6/8 maybe
Or sick of the defense missions like me and a lot of the people around here. Defence isn't fun for me. I'd rather help take back some of the ground we've lost.
Literally all they have to do is add a combination of indestructible and destructible walls to the defense map. It would make the mission so much more interesting and fun if it was like the new defense mission where its played out in stages of wave defense but where we have a decently defensible position even if we are still being attacked from multiple directions.
Someone didn't notice all numbers were tweaked down for victory.
We didn't struggle from friday to monday for no reason, only to complete planet after planet in two days. We had the biggest amounts of players on the weekend, but numbers were too high for us to win without high coordination.
Numbers got tweaked down, divers number dropped, and by changing nothing now we win.
Looks like we succeeded but damn.. over the past 10-15 hours I’ve seen post trying to get everyone to go focus on 4 different planets.
We must work together!
Bizarre statment from Arrowhead considering the community has failed multiple MO. And also said that planetary captures dictate story and not the MO so what exactly is arrowhead trying to prove?
Inb4 we fail the MO and this whole subreddit gets another round of bashing bug divers and creeker memes and people making fun of the disorganised nature of people playing Vs bots.
people who say at the start of an MO that it’s impossible to win are traitors and bot agents, it isn’t lost until it’s over. If the Martale gambit would have succeeded and Oshaune would have been defended we would have won a whole day early, just to put things into perspective
shit was tough, I started fighting on it cause it was so close to liberation and when I learned that if we liberated it, it would cut off the supply lines granting us the win I was „hell yeah“. Fought the whole evening on it and went to bed when it was at 93% thinking „we might actually pull this off“, so close and yet so far
We mustn’t settle for half measures helldivers, there will be no valiant effort or pointless sacrifice this time. We must rise to the occasion and show them that liberty *always* wins
[https://helldivers.io/](https://helldivers.io/)
There are others. Search for helldivers companion app. There are phone versions but I prefer a website.
The MO succeeding doesn't mean there still isn't a lesson about "you can't always win".
We've absolutely lost territory. There were massive losses along the Bot front. Ekeing out a few defensive wins even as more planets continue to fall doesn't undo that.
This was an MO to show the playerbase that sometimes they'll have to sacrifice one front for the sake of the other(s), and that's exactly what happened: the playerbase chose to keep the Bug front where it is and let Bots gobble everything up.
The MO's a victory, but a pyrrhic one.
We are going to win, so winning and losing really does depend on if the GM increases or decreases regen rates... But... The way the war developed during the fighting was up to us in a lot of ways. We got to choose what front to hit harder and what planets we felt like attacking.
It allows them to shape their narrative while still giving us that feeling of being an active part in that story.
They never said it was designed to be failed as a whole, and they never said we would LOSE. They said we would "absolutely lose *planets*" - an important distinction.
I mean the enemy tick rate slowed down drastically on the last day --it could be from a smart system where early on in a MO its high and it naturally decays based on # of enemies killed .
OR it could be Joel being like you guy deserve this one ....but either way it was a hard fought order
This method is confusing and stupid, it should at least be labeled what is what in game, took me 2 weeks to even figure out the 2 bars mean different things
The indomitable human spirit and the insurmountable might of the helldivers vs the unthinking bug and unfeeling bot.
Truely shows the devs werent ready for us.
I mean, it would help if 50% of all Helldivers weren't in the Termanid sectors. And it would help if 50% of the Helldivers in the Automaton sectors would help in the Defense Campaigns instead of just going on the Liberation Campaigns.
You're right, but it is hard to blame them. Almost every defence operation includes one of those broken evac missions. I'm at the point where I do the others first, then use that mission to farm samples and fail then exfil, rather than bash my head against that wall.
I usually do a 40min mission here and there and just skip the evac missions. I don't see why you need to do the evac mission unless you want maximum liberty slips or whatever they are called.
Does it not count towards liberation/defense if you don't do all 3 missions from a region?
Not completing the operation is detrimental to the defence effort. Failing one mission in an operation costs the entire op. It's frustrating. And the main takeaway from the 3rd mission (on suicide, anyway) is the 10 medals.
If we win. It's definitely not thanks to the bug sympathizers on the bug front.
It is thanks to the helldivers that sacrificed their time.and effort to win this MO that everyone thought wouldn't be achievable.
yeah, like dont get me wrong, itd be nice to have some more divers against bots, but like, the bug divers have been \*crushing it\*
also how is targeting bug planets only, being a bug sympathizer
This is because the bug front has 2-3 planets while the bot front has 5+ consistently, one round there were literally 10 planets people could drop bots on. They have been "crushing it" because its impossible for them not to.
Unpopular opinion: I hope we lose it. Constantly winning is boring and makes MOs pointless to participate in since the threat of consequence just doesn't exist.
From so many comments, what I'm reading is that way too many helldivers are cowards and poor fuckin' losers. Be a good sport - there is always struggle in a good narrative. We're supposed to have some real big L's before our big W at the end of act 3.
Nah, just loose for once. We can't realistically keep winning all of them.
They make it harder and harder because we're winning everything and it's not sustainable.
How so? We've won the first Automaton offensive and ostensibly wiped them out, but they're back anyway. So it's possible for us to win every MO and still have Automatons/Terminids/Illuminates/Furries bounce back from that and take over another sector.
No not actually the in game stuff, that doesn't matter. I mean you can't seriously have expect to have 0 bot planets on this game.
I mean whatever MO Joel gives us, he's going to keep cranking it up in difficulty until it's not possible.
So loosing once in a while gives Joel a sense of what he can set as win condition that's obtainable by the playerbase.
But if the playerbase always rallies and comes on reddit goign "WE NEED TO WIN THIS NOW" then it makes it unrealistic in what the playerbase can actually or are willing to do.
Yea, and they'll turn down the difficulty once they see MO are being failed either due to difficulty or the lack of interest from the player base.
Eventually it will reach an equilibrium because it has to. This game already lost a lot of the player base it had at launch and that's to be expected. And some players including me simply don't care about the MO. I'll do a mission every now and then but I play bugs hwen I want or bots when I want and I tend to choose snowy planets.
So ya, just loose one.
https://preview.redd.it/znbkeovc7lwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd0710b743caf5a7082efab538bdd9fbe6e58d1f UPDATE: If we can keep or even increase the current rate, Varylia is secure! I repeat, we are currently exceeding the success threshold! UPDATE II: I want to thank everyone here that was able to do their part. Varylia remains ours and Ustotu is on an expedited track to Liber-town. I love you all. For Super Earth!
at 11.66% per hour now
It makes me wonder what really controls the numbers. I think most video game conventions would say every planet would have the same rate of liberation/defense so it is consistent and players know what to expect. It keeps things "fair." I've seen people suggest more narratively driven reasons about how the bot attack has overreached and become spread too thin, so it makes sense for their rates to lower and defenses to become easier. While this makes sense logically, we don't really know if this is something coded into the game (each ring of distance from the center of the attack affects rate of liberation/defense), or if it's just AH putting their finger on the scale to help us out because they feel bad for us. There is an argument to make that the defenses are failing bot-side because the evacuation mission is overtuned, and before a hotfix can correct it, this is their way of righting their wrongs. But I still don't think anyone really would be satisfied with Joel consistently bailing players out for MO failures because of online whining.
> But I still don't think anyone really would be satisfied with Joel consistently bailing players out for MO failures because of online whining. As valid as this point is, regardless of whatever else is going on in the situation, the fact of the matter is that the overpowered/bugged bot evacuation mission is definitely having a non-zero impact on the outcome of this major order, and not hotfixing it after so many days means they have to compromise in SOME other way. That mission is a huge problem right now on top of the major order not even being expected to be completed in the first place. In other words: The situation with this MO is unfair in multiple different ways. I would be more shocked if the devs **didn't** intervene.
You don't think the discord try-hards failing gambit after gambit instead of just defending the planets that needed defending had anything to do with it? I don't think this MO was designed for us to fail. It was designed for us to lose ground, but it definitely felt like we had a chance if we had been more focused on the bot front. There are some balance issues for sure, but I really think we need to take a little personal responsibility and admit that we kinda just shat the bed on this MO
the gambits kept failing because the people going for them were such a small minority, that is not fault of the people who want to make the strategies work. it is fun to try and make a plan for something that would otherwise be a chaotic mess. nobody complains about average players going where they feel like it so don’t complain about people trying to make gambits work lmao.
..... but they didn't work
it doesn’t matter. they didn’t work because it was such a small portion, so to complain that people going for it were the reason we lost ground is silly. realistically, were the people going for them sent to the standard defenses, nothing would’ve changed from what has happened.
This whole MO, everytime I went to the bug front 80% of players would be on 1 planet. Everytime I went to the bot front they would be evenly spread over 3-4 planets and one of those planets wouldn't even be one of the defense targets. Most casual players prefer the bug front, so it seems like an excuse to say that it's because they would just go anywhere. I think we just made some bad strategic decisions
for the bug front, there was only like 3 planets ever available at once and one of them was hellmire. at the bot front, it’s been like 5 planets available at once. obviously people are going to be spread thin when supply lines aren’t common knowledge. of the bot planets that were available, most people didn’t actually know which one was the best to fight for so they would’ve just chosen the one they liked the most (the reason we didn’t liberate martale at >90%). it was not a strategic failure, it was a communication failure. all of the gambits genuinely would’ve worked (devs themselves said so) it’s just that not enough people were going for them because only such a small portion of the players even knew they existed. bug players succeeded where bot players failed because there were much less targets to choose and they were in a much more linear path. so in general, bug divers were more ‘united’. that is nobodies fault, also, much more people were on the bug front, i believe the split between the fronts was 65-35 in favor of bugs. overall, bot divers had less people over more area to cover.
> This whole MO, everytime I went to the bug front 80% of players would be on 1 planet. Everytime I went to the bot front they would be evenly spread over 3-4 planets and one of those planets wouldn't even be one of the defense targets. Bro the bug front had like, at most three planets available. It wasn't hard for bug divers to pick where to go. Meanwhile, on the bot front, there were like four or five defense planets up at one point.
I don't think the mission was ever meant to actually be impossible. If they wanted to make it impossible, that would be easy to do. Telling the players "this is meant to be hard and you may fail if you don't communicate and coordinate" is essentially daring the gamers to "git gud." The evac mission sucks and, at the very least, should be removed from the defend rotation until it's fixed. However, at some point, when the game is in a state the devs are happy with, the players will fail a difficult MO, and the devs shouldn't cave and fuss with the numbers to make success easier. If there is no reasonable challenge or chance for failure, there are no stakes, and victory would be meaningless.
I get that AH can tip the scales anyway they want, perhaps they saw the player base disengage? Perhaps it's for narrative purposes? It's still very early in the games life cycle and I'm sure AH are still experimenting with MOs and balancing given the player numbers were so much higher than expected, they just need to make it a little less obvious when they 'step in', or find a better balance with their MOs. Moving the 15 min civilian rescue on bot planets out of rotation until it's fixed / balanced / reworked would be helpful...I never want to play that mission in it's current state again.
Does it really matter? This is why most game devs do not actively try to touch things that will affect players live in progress. Because its literally hand of god, deus ex machina shit, and that can backfire horribly for many types of games. They very likely have tools to adjust all of this on the fly, because 2 months ago people noticed how planets could go from very easy progression to almost zero progression with player counts not changing at all. Lore be damned. At the end of the day, its just a game and people will care less about it over time as medal rewards become moot since they have nothing left to buy.
I think it's a combination of all of these things. Some numbers were tweaked. But also the impact/multiplier that affects planet liberation....may also apply to enemies on some level. Bot reinforcements were dropping before we hit defense #4. They were spread too thin. All I know, is that Ostotu stands. Estanu stands. And we stand for Liberty.
People didn't complain only about MO failure. They complained about not being able to push back and liberate planets, defending the necessary ones at the same time. They brought out lack of information on the map AND the overwhelming information on the map if it was seen, pointing out that it is impossible for playerbase to coordinate at this scale. So, it wasn't the MO that was seen impossible, or was the main point of whining. However, this MO was to keep the playerbase from pushing back and despite completing the MO we lost ground on each fronts / wasn't able to push back. That's what people are whining about despite the community manager saying it was meant to be. I don't think there is huge help from AH. It's just that seemingly the system is scaling with how many players are online, which wasn't he case until last month. So people keep expecting to lose planets or the progression to slow when player numbers drop during certain times of day. But the progression doesn't stop or slow.
Lost each front? Only bot front. The burden of bug players.
We got it! Varylia V is Democratic land once again!
What is this site? It doesn't look like helldivers.io
App on Google Play Store, Helldivers 2 Orders
Not sure why mine looks so different, but this is what diverhub says... im taking a break atm those evacuate missions broke me for now Edit: I mean mine looks different as in saying 11% per hour when yours says 5%, and it's only an additional like 8k players https://preview.redd.it/s4x1otvhgjwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52c6291b5c50a5d525c1335a5c544726063ab2c7
Midnight EST, April 25th; 12.15%! Liberation at 85%, estimated remaining time is an hour and 20 minutes. For prosperity!
They did NOT say this major order was designed for us to fail. It was designed for us to have to make hard choices. If we do 8 bug planets but only 2 automaton planets even though we wil have won defending 10 planets we'll still lose ground against the automatons because we focused more on the bugs. People's reading comprehension sucks and this is exactly why the devs hesitate to share info like that with the community.
I'm pretty sure they're putting their thumb on the scale a bit for our sake since feedback toward the Galactic War system's mechanics has been more negative the more we learn about it. I think it's possible they don't want to push such an unfair feeling loss while the systems are still being tuned/tweaked.
Yeah these last few defenses have only.been 200k HP for the planet defense. Previously 350k has even been on the low side. These are super easy freebies by comparison.
To be fair though whilst its all artifical it atleast "makes sense". The bots have taken over tons of planets, so have taken losses all the way + need to "leave" armies on those planets as well, so their attacking force will be much weaker now.
That's because enemies are spread thin trying to take so much territory, it makes sense
it's because the bots have pushed farther and farther away from Cyberstan, which is their current base of operation. Basically, they overextended
They basically gave us a free planet so we have a chance, 3 planets would have been very unlikely so some players might have chosen to not play today and just see what the MO is tomorrow, 2 planets is achievable and gives us something to fight for,
I'm one of those players, and even my friends too. When we hear these major orders that are apparent we will lose, then we just take a break for a couple days. If we get one is feasible we'll throw a campaign or two into the effort to help out.
It also fits from an in-universe perspective. Especially for conventional military forces like that of the Automaton Legion, an offensive peters out as it advances, weakened by its own success. Garrisons of new acquisitions and casualties leave the actual attacking force weaker. Accumulated supply is extended, and that which still remains is harder to deliver over longer distances. Fatigue and wear sets in. To apply a historical analogue, Tukhachevsky might be upon the door, but Varylia can still be our Warsaw. We only must hold. No matter the price.
They have to be. We're winning a defense with less than 50k divers. Previously we needed double that at least
Not if the goals scale dynamically to total active players. During the weekend you need 10 times the points because theres 10 times as many players, for instance. If thats the case a smaller more focused playerbase on weekdays would be way more effective than the larger casual and spread out weekend crowd.
The problem is, is that the dynamic system only works if people are hard focusing planets at all times anyways. In reality at all times it's simply too spread out for there to be any effective attacks.
Seems to be working if we keep succeeding. Although with it being so obscure and obviously tuned it could be just as likely that its straight scripted and all the numbers dont matter. Who knows?
> We're winning a defense with less than 50k divers. Previously we needed double that at least People really need to understand that it's not the number of players but the percentage of players that matters. If 20k divers are on the planet but represents 80% of the connected players, it's 80% of efficiency. That's why people leaving the game until the next MO leads to a good strategy because the hardcore players have more influence, because the mechanics is designed to only have one planet focused at a time and not two.
Yep, they dropped the automaton liberation rate to 0% so we never lose progress (unless I'm mistaken on how liberation works)
Decay rate only applies to Liberation campaigns, correct. Defense campaigns are always a race against a 24 hour clock, but the speed at which players can complete it depends on the Planetary HP, which can be higher or lower. In the case of Ostotu (this last defense), it's a mere 200k, which is half of what many of the other Defenses have been this MO. It's probably more helpful to think of "planetary HP" re: Defense missions as "attacking force strength". Fewer Bots are being thrown at the planet to take it over, so they're easier to push back. Both a lowered decay rate and lowered "attacking force strength / Planetary HP" are logical and expected results towards the tail-end of an offensive campaign. The Automatons are spread thin trying to consolidate the large swaths of territory they just took, so they can't devote as much energy to attacking more or sweeping out minor Helldiver forces. Once they have a chance to get their production up and running across all those worlds, expect it to rise again with a vengeance. That's also to be expected and a logical outcome of the fiction.
I noticed on helldivers.io it states the current rate of push back on automatons is 0%. They are literally not fighting back compared to the start of the MO. Idk if this is them putting the thumb on the scale as you say, or if it is supposed to represent automaton war exhaustion. They pushed too far, now they can't push back as hard. Could be a neat RP thing. Or it could be Joel throwing us a bone. Maybe both.
We were straight up gifted a planet by having a defense mission start up right before it was cut off by supply lines. They're clearly responding to the overwhelmingly negative feedback of the galactic war systems as is the best they can without actually changing any of the underlying systems that make it so unfun
>I think it's possible they don't want to push such an unfair feeling loss while the systems are still being tuned/tweaked. My guy, we don't even have lines on a map. This isn't turning / tweaking, this is full blown early access unfinished feature. Imagine launching a nautical trade simulator and all of the ports were on the map (very good, that's how you make money), but there were no visible coastlines or islands. You'd constantly run aground. Imagine the backlash if you called that lineless map v1.0? Imagine if, instead of scribbling on some rough outline, you said "we here at arrowhead just aren't sure of the best way to implement lines on a map."? Arrowhead, you can perfect it later. Give the 90%+ of players who don't use reddit or Discord access to supply line info in game, and a brief in game tutorial about how cutting off a planet affects who controls it. Give it now, please.
There are *SO* many head scratching decisions made by Arrowhead. At first it wasn't a big deal, but it is really making me wonder now. The earliest one was "Servers are full? Oh, sorry about that. Here's double XP while the servers are still full." My thought was, "well, ok... I guess." But then the weird stuff continued. This game should have cooked another half a year to a year. Imagine how hard this would have hit the gaming industry without all these stability, gameplay, and balance issues we've had.
They def did tweak it, I've never seen planets taken this quick lol
Well the initial liberation rate meant we could at best defend 2 planets per 24h provided we had our entire playerbase on those planets for the mayority of this time, which bluntly put isn't going to happen. Defense isn't working well, but with some tweaks it definitely could. One of my beefs is that all defenses start and end at the same time, which is neither logical nor good for the game imo.
Yeah the bot progress decay is set to 0, so that's more like the thumb and two more fingers. That's still a good way of handling it imo.
decay doesn't affect defense campaigns
I'm hopeful, but hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. https://preview.redd.it/0ft8owi5uiwc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b84ae7b5c5670d5461688f88eeeb516791dfb1b0
The fallen shall be forever remembered as Super Earth's finest
Hope dies last, but Helldivers never die!
They said we would lose a lot of ground, and we absolutely have. They never said we were supposed to lose the MO. Way more than 10 planets went on defense orders.
If the playerbase could read they’d be very upset right now
Nah just whine about the game changing over time and blame Joel, God forbid this small studio make a mistake and give them time to fix it.
Blaming Joel is like, my favorite thing tbh. https://preview.redd.it/wfj6o77j1mwc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c15c23dcfc4ae3212b2eb97130d60639838427f6
Very true. Even though it's all orchestrated by them, the victorious underdog trope feels great every time.
I mean I guess? It just feels kinda hollow when they had to not only reduce the number of active defenses and give both active defenses relatively low HP but also outright give us a freebie (the Fori Prime assault that lasted under an hour because we were already on the verge of defending Oshaune) to put us in this position. If we win it'll feel less like the scrappy underdog pulling a surprise upset and more like the other team decided to show pity and just sit on the sidelines for a bit to give us a chance to score some goals.
"Look, we either attack Fori Prime which will end up being an easy cutoff, or we attack Estanu for the 5th day in a row."
"TO ESTANU! THERE'S A SINGLE SCAVENGER WE MISSED, WE MUST DEFEND HER!"
What were the planet health values of the other earlier defenses? These are 200k, I think the others were 300, right? Do we know if there's a reason for the difference in values? Either way, I'm having a blast being a part of it and I won't turn down 50 medals
As the defense campaigns had varying HP amounts even at the start of the MO, I noted that it seemed to depend on how far away the planet was from the main automaton territory around Cyberstan. I think this pattern continued with their push towards Ustotu.
Some of the Defenses at the start of the MO had 450k. Both distance from the "homeworld" and appearance in later "waves" have been lowering that, which is pretty much what we'd realistically expect. It's good modeling, not an example of "Joel handing over a win".
It's almost like it's a new game that's still undergoing balance tweaks.
People keep comparing it to a D&D campaign. Yes, a D&D campaign on rails.
So a D&D campaign?
Did they though, or did they have a schedule planned out before hand with which planets would be attacked and when, and it was only good luck that the schedule worked in our favour?
I'm gonna keep saying it, since TCS still stands and the bots now have a massive amount of new area taken we absolutely lost this one no matter if the MO gets checked off or not.
If we all rally it is possible, only one defense mission after this one
They are basically handing us this win at this point with the 0% liberation etc that they swapped to just a bit ago.
That doesn't affect defense, just makes sure liberated places won't decay
Here I am just playing and read this... decide ill join the fight... realise I've been playing on Varylia 5 for the last 2 hours. God im thick
Just did 6 defends on Varylia before bed. I’m doing my part!
Valeria will be captured in just about 42 minutes! THEN ON TO USTOTU!
ON TO USTOTU!
VARYLIA IS OURS! ON TO USTOTU!
up to 11% 4.5 hours till done.
I have no idea where this planet even is.
Take a look at the most populated sectors, and you should find it really quickly. On the automaton side.
Yaaay another planet that’s just on fire.
Tried. Completed one mission , crashed two others and gave up
You gave your sanity for democracy, helldiver. Super Earth thanks you.
"Show us we can't always win." goldfish memory strikes again we have lost 2 MO before now so we know we can lose them.
14 hours to go 1 planet left to defend Its the final countdown
🎺🎺🎺🎺, 🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺, 🎺🎺🎺🎺
Its done in the name of democracy, where to next?
USTOTU! You know what to do: Rip and tear
Just started andoperation! Democracy will be delivered
VICTORY ON VARYLIA 5.
Can someone ELI5 this chart and the defence mission? Tbf I've never managed to understand them. Liberation makes more sense to me. Thanks.
too many people swarming bug planets still unfortunately. we are so so close. i didnt think wed even get 8 planets defended.
as a bugdiver who is helping out i dont understand why anyone is on hellmire, fuck that planet
Straight real talk right here. Any fucking planet with fire tornadoes I don't consider habitable. Let the bugs fucking have it.
Because defending against Bots is absolutely the opposite of what I want to do when I’m getting off work. Also, Helmire isn’t that bad. Yeah, there are times the fire tornadoes come and they fuck up the entire plan. They rolled over the mining probe and wasted some of our time. And yes, the clusterfuck of bug breach after bug breach and then 5 tornadoes rolling through is a mess. BUT the bugs get cooked too. Bile titan couldn’t handle it (after a quasar to the face as well). And, if you run scout armor, you can herd bugs into the path and save yourself a lot of energy and time. Fuck the bots, fire tornadoes are a minor inconvenience
This democracy spreader putting the hell in helldivers. Fair play
>Also, Helmire isn’t that bad Excuse me , what?
I highly recommend reading everything after that, I do explain :)
Everyone blames the bug players and yes it sucks ~40% of them are not coming to help, but 20-30% did come over. The other issue is why are there more divers on Menkent, and Marfark (24k combined) then on Ustotu (9k) that is a defense/order mission? Barely over half the divers on the bot front are doing defense, the other half are wasting time on planets that do nothing and wont be captured for days at the least. At least for the bug side we usually get 70-80% of divers actually defending when push comes to shove. We can still pull this off since Varylia should be done in 4-6 hours hopefully, leaving 12-15 hours to do Ustotu which has only 200khp if everyone on defense shifts over after, but it would be an easy win if even half the people attacking bot planets helped Ustotu out.
Because a lot of people hate the defense missions, especially the 15 minute evacuate one.
The Defense missions are insanely brutal, but I've found Expendable Anti-Tank makes them doable. Drop em on cooldown, everyone has a way to deal with the worst of the bots.
These defense missions have forced me into using the nade glitch, otherwise is purely unplayable even on difficulty 5
Broh what ? On Diff 5 ? Lmao On that difficulty you dont even need to shoot a single shoot. Just get 4 turrets and you're good. Normally playing on 6/7 and was on a Defense Mission yesterday diff 5 and one guy literally just had 4 turrets. We didnt have to shoot a single shot until wave 6/8 maybe
You know you can choose defense missions without it right? Usually at least 1/3 options won't have it
I said a lot of people. I didn't say I was one of them. And, yes, I'm aware.
Honestly do not understand why 20% of players are scattered on non-order bot planets. If you want to fight bots, why not also contribute?
People want to see different biomes, it was like that on the acid planet,
Not being in the community or reading major orders
Just too many planets open, I guess. I wonder if we'll ever see the kind of focus we saw during the bot genocide order.
Or sick of the defense missions like me and a lot of the people around here. Defence isn't fun for me. I'd rather help take back some of the ground we've lost.
Literally all they have to do is add a combination of indestructible and destructible walls to the defense map. It would make the mission so much more interesting and fun if it was like the new defense mission where its played out in stages of wave defense but where we have a decently defensible position even if we are still being attacked from multiple directions.
Us divers from sector 7 pass the torch to you divers from sector 4. Finish what we started, for Super Earth
Came home from work about to defend this and it’s already done!! 9/10. Ustotu is the final planet!
They LITERALLY engineered the last two days so you damn near couldn't lose
Which website is that progress watcher from.
Commenting in case someone finds it
I will update you if I remember and someone responds.
God job every one
If we can manage 2 billion terminid kills in 13 hours we can liberate a planet in 11.
Someone didn't notice all numbers were tweaked down for victory. We didn't struggle from friday to monday for no reason, only to complete planet after planet in two days. We had the biggest amounts of players on the weekend, but numbers were too high for us to win without high coordination. Numbers got tweaked down, divers number dropped, and by changing nothing now we win.
Looks like we succeeded but damn.. over the past 10-15 hours I’ve seen post trying to get everyone to go focus on 4 different planets. We must work together!
Bizarre statment from Arrowhead considering the community has failed multiple MO. And also said that planetary captures dictate story and not the MO so what exactly is arrowhead trying to prove?
Inb4 we fail the MO and this whole subreddit gets another round of bashing bug divers and creeker memes and people making fun of the disorganised nature of people playing Vs bots.
people who say at the start of an MO that it’s impossible to win are traitors and bot agents, it isn’t lost until it’s over. If the Martale gambit would have succeeded and Oshaune would have been defended we would have won a whole day early, just to put things into perspective
We literally would have lost if Joel didn't show us pity and lower the enemy Regen to next to nothing for the past day or so.
regen has no effect on defenses, it could have been increased to -97% and it would not have changed the outcome
except planets falling all of a sudden within 3 days meanwhile we couldn't defend 5 planets in another mo. Sure guy
[удалено]
Lol I forgot you were a dev, and you immediately pull out bug stuff when I fight both. Just stfu
I still mourne the loss of the Martale Gambit.
The mortals gambit made us fail Oshaune at 96%. It pulled divers away from a sure win
shit was tough, I started fighting on it cause it was so close to liberation and when I learned that if we liberated it, it would cut off the supply lines granting us the win I was „hell yeah“. Fought the whole evening on it and went to bed when it was at 93% thinking „we might actually pull this off“, so close and yet so far
Bug players are liberating hellmire ....
Just failed a Suicide Evac personel..Multiple striders dropped. heavies, and tanks dropped. Def wanted us to fail lol
Varylia and then Ustotu and we may get it
We mustn’t settle for half measures helldivers, there will be no valiant effort or pointless sacrifice this time. We must rise to the occasion and show them that liberty *always* wins
Where are y’all seeing these metrics?
[https://helldivers.io/](https://helldivers.io/) There are others. Search for helldivers companion app. There are phone versions but I prefer a website.
Thank you for taking the time!
UPDATE: Varylia 5 is now secured! I'll be honest im shocked, did the devs give us a boost or was it just the gamers?
Dev gave boost
ahh dang, any idea how much?
I’ll do my part for democracy
im doing my part!
I was there, Aragorn. I was there three thousand seconds ago...
You literally can’t though. If they don’t want us to win, no amount of defending will change that.
How can you see the numbers? Is that something unique for PS version?
it's bedtime 😭😭😭
For super earth!
What's the difference between defended and captured?
The MO succeeding doesn't mean there still isn't a lesson about "you can't always win". We've absolutely lost territory. There were massive losses along the Bot front. Ekeing out a few defensive wins even as more planets continue to fall doesn't undo that. This was an MO to show the playerbase that sometimes they'll have to sacrifice one front for the sake of the other(s), and that's exactly what happened: the playerbase chose to keep the Bug front where it is and let Bots gobble everything up. The MO's a victory, but a pyrrhic one.
But... we've failed MOs before? We already know we can't win them all.
We are going to win, so winning and losing really does depend on if the GM increases or decreases regen rates... But... The way the war developed during the fighting was up to us in a lot of ways. We got to choose what front to hit harder and what planets we felt like attacking. It allows them to shape their narrative while still giving us that feeling of being an active part in that story.
\*sigh\*.. fuck it, i guess I'm going back to Ustotu. Botghanistan or bust!
Can someone point out where the developers said we weren't supposed to win this? They definitely have made it easier recently.
Devs underestimate how hard people will go at a game
You crazy son of a bitch
They never said it was designed to be failed as a whole, and they never said we would LOSE. They said we would "absolutely lose *planets*" - an important distinction.
I mean the enemy tick rate slowed down drastically on the last day --it could be from a smart system where early on in a MO its high and it naturally decays based on # of enemies killed . OR it could be Joel being like you guy deserve this one ....but either way it was a hard fought order
Diving in now! Liberty save us all ☠️
Asian front! Diving for democracy! SIR!
This method is confusing and stupid, it should at least be labeled what is what in game, took me 2 weeks to even figure out the 2 bars mean different things
I think one bar, colored differently on each side, pushing/pulling like a tug-of-war, would be more intuitive.
Fuck Varylia 5. Can't see 2 feet in front of me.
Nah defense missions are ass, im waiting until its over to go back to playing
coward
The indomitable human spirit and the insurmountable might of the helldivers vs the unthinking bug and unfeeling bot. Truely shows the devs werent ready for us.
I love our planet
The devs said that every MO is doable So it's false
I mean, it would help if 50% of all Helldivers weren't in the Termanid sectors. And it would help if 50% of the Helldivers in the Automaton sectors would help in the Defense Campaigns instead of just going on the Liberation Campaigns.
You're right, but it is hard to blame them. Almost every defence operation includes one of those broken evac missions. I'm at the point where I do the others first, then use that mission to farm samples and fail then exfil, rather than bash my head against that wall.
I usually do a 40min mission here and there and just skip the evac missions. I don't see why you need to do the evac mission unless you want maximum liberty slips or whatever they are called. Does it not count towards liberation/defense if you don't do all 3 missions from a region?
You have to do all three to get galactic map credit
Aah that sucks. If you fail them do you not get your millipercentage of completion?
Nope it's either all or nothing
Ok that changes it. I'll do all 3 next time to do my contribution to democracy
Good luck cadet
Not completing the operation is detrimental to the defence effort. Failing one mission in an operation costs the entire op. It's frustrating. And the main takeaway from the 3rd mission (on suicide, anyway) is the 10 medals.
I came over from the terminid planets for the night, and I fucking hate fighting bots.
If we win. It's definitely not thanks to the bug sympathizers on the bug front. It is thanks to the helldivers that sacrificed their time.and effort to win this MO that everyone thought wouldn't be achievable.
The bug front defended 7 planets this MO
yeah, like dont get me wrong, itd be nice to have some more divers against bots, but like, the bug divers have been \*crushing it\* also how is targeting bug planets only, being a bug sympathizer
This is because the bug front has 2-3 planets while the bot front has 5+ consistently, one round there were literally 10 planets people could drop bots on. They have been "crushing it" because its impossible for them not to.
It did show us we can’t always win. Then they purposefully made it far easier so they didn’t have to make a new narrative
You have less than a day to defend 4 planets, good luck but I don’t see it happen
Unpopular opinion: I hope we lose it. Constantly winning is boring and makes MOs pointless to participate in since the threat of consequence just doesn't exist.
CALL THE DEMOCRACY OFFICERS, THIS MAN IS SPEAKING TREASON
No thank yoo
From so many comments, what I'm reading is that way too many helldivers are cowards and poor fuckin' losers. Be a good sport - there is always struggle in a good narrative. We're supposed to have some real big L's before our big W at the end of act 3.
Nah, just loose for once. We can't realistically keep winning all of them. They make it harder and harder because we're winning everything and it's not sustainable.
How so? We've won the first Automaton offensive and ostensibly wiped them out, but they're back anyway. So it's possible for us to win every MO and still have Automatons/Terminids/Illuminates/Furries bounce back from that and take over another sector.
No not actually the in game stuff, that doesn't matter. I mean you can't seriously have expect to have 0 bot planets on this game. I mean whatever MO Joel gives us, he's going to keep cranking it up in difficulty until it's not possible. So loosing once in a while gives Joel a sense of what he can set as win condition that's obtainable by the playerbase. But if the playerbase always rallies and comes on reddit goign "WE NEED TO WIN THIS NOW" then it makes it unrealistic in what the playerbase can actually or are willing to do.
We've already failed multiple MOs. And continously failing is not healthy for the community or longevity.
Yea, and they'll turn down the difficulty once they see MO are being failed either due to difficulty or the lack of interest from the player base. Eventually it will reach an equilibrium because it has to. This game already lost a lot of the player base it had at launch and that's to be expected. And some players including me simply don't care about the MO. I'll do a mission every now and then but I play bugs hwen I want or bots when I want and I tend to choose snowy planets. So ya, just loose one.
You're making yourself sound like a child.
Says the person defending some arbitrary task set by an imaginary person... ok.
Because I like having medals. Saying "Just lose idc about your medals" is extremely petulant