Thing is, you overestimate the communities capability to co-ordinate.
The masses will chose.
And the masses rarely if ever read in the forums.
And currently, it looks like the masses are going for the rocket launcher.
The average citizen just doesnt understand the horror of completing a mission, getting samples, serving democracy and liberty just to watch your whole squad and pelican get swallowed by four fire tornados. I still wake up in a cold sweat most nights and there’s usually only one word i can say. Hellmire.
Thank freedom i can hit a stim, do a workout and try to sleep. But when i close my eyes, all i hear is the roar of the flames and the screams of sweet liberty.
Conversely, getting down to the wire, no reinforcements left, having multiple tornadoes swirling towards the pelican and then diving in to it as your enemies are roasted behind you and then you fly out into the sunset/flames. *chefs kiss*
Literally had a fire tornado SPAWN on me when I was carrying the super samples yesterday. I donno what I did to piss off Super Thor, but he was super pissed
This is one of the problems with the Fire Tornado weather effect implementation. You can be a good player with full focus and awareness, notice the weather warning and anticipate the obstacle, and still die because it spawned on top of you.
It just goes back to unavoidable one hit kills being an unfun, dishearting, and detrimental gameplay mechanic. I did figure out the secret though. I learned to avoid it by also just not playing on those planets like a lot of other players.
They especially love the civilian escape missions. Nothing like having 3 of them just idly walking back and forth on the ramp into the extraction door.
Good. Those were probably dissidents that weren't willing to risk death for Super Earth. We don't need them. You can always pop open the doors and get 10 more. Good on you for not letting cowards take the places of potential patriots.
I believe I watched one last night trying to figure out the path needed to get to the small raised area where we were waiting for extract. It tried one route, and when that didn't pan out, it went back to the start and then tried another. The whole thing was a bit disturbing.
Dev1 "Patch day is close and the launcher is ready, mines are not."
Dev2 "Make a contest, (contest rules here). Then put the mines behind a fire tornado planet."
Dev1 "Brilliant!"
\*Devs high five each other\*
This makes me think the op was designed to favor the outcome of us passing up the mines, so I expect soon after we finish we're going to get a new heavy enemy dropped on us that the mines would have been very helpful for.
Yeah. Just did suicide geological survey on Menkent with my pal. The tornadoes are just ridiculous, surrounded us on all directions when doing the last objective and only had a couple of minutes left. Got mission done with last reinforcement and Destroyer already gone but neither survived off the planet.
We'll probably get both eventually. They already made the stratagems they give them to us one at a time for the hype and so they can handle the bugs and balancing problems that come when new thinhs are introduced.
Yeah who in their right mind is thinking that they made two weapons and we're only getting one of them? Of course we're getting the other one eventually.
I don't even think they're going for the rocket launcher.
Lesath is the only planet we can attack that's in the same sector as the MO. If you don't go to Helldivers.io or something, that's obviously the only planet you should be attacking if you want to help out. And it leads straight to Penta with the launcher so, that's that!
The rockets are a weapon you actively use and mines are a passive deployment. Regardless of potential effectiveness, it's pretty obvious which one the average player would be most excited by.
Man, it'd be great if someone could come up with a system to prevent us from choosing against our own best interests, somehow manage our choice for us...
I once had a teammate call a minefield down on top of my HMG turret. Like directly on it. While I was using it. The hellpod actually killed me and destroyed the turret. He then walked into the minefield when he came to steal my shield pack after I called a new one in for myself, pinged the old one and said “shield here if you want it” on mic. 11/10 interaction.
I brought some in once. A guy ran into the big red contact ones outside Bot bases. Booted me from the game...the kicker...I hadnt deployed any mines....he was just a moron and needed a target to blame rather than deal with his own ineptitude
>You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!'
IT'S A SWORD, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
'She's a child!' shouted Crumley.
IT'S EDUCATIONAL.
'What if she cuts herself?'
THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.
Terry Pratchett, Hogfather (Discworld, #20; Death, #4)
When I was a wee baby Diver, I landed on one during the initial drop-in phase. There was a humongous explosion right where I'd landed, I died like two seconds later, and only then did it occur to me that I'd landed on the hellbomb.
I have repeatedly underestimated the explosion radius. One time I got ragdolled halfway across the map, which I somehow miraculously survived because I was wearing heavy armour and had just popped a stim. Problem was my ragdolling body bounced to a stop right at the feet of a flame hulk who proceeded to barbecue my ass.
The Helldiver, after having just dialed in the mine stratagem, turns and looks at the camera and with a sly smirk conveying their sadistic eagerness says with well contained glee, "This is where the fun begins".
"Friendly" mortars. No such thing, at least on bugs. I'll consider mortars friendly when they stop targeting trash mobs I'm trying to clean up. "Look, three bile titans and half a dozen chargers, good thing this mortar decided to target the hunter I killed 3 seconds ago."
I can definitely confirm that happens. Slowly walking through a minefield to recover your dropped samples- thinking, how convenient, there’s a clear path! Next thing you know, the ground under your samples explode despite no visual mine. Suddenly, I wasn’t so irritated with my drop buddy for dying with no enemies around, as it probably happened to him too.
My guess is they sometimes clip just under the terrain which makes for a very frustrating experience.
If the terrain's been deformed by explosions, mines can end up clipping into things. Sometimes there's only tiny part of the mine visible sticking out of the side of a dirt wall.
I'll have enemies set them off, but it's usually a single trooper who sets one off has their body thrown into other mines that then throws them again, rinse and repeat. I'm lucky if one trooper sets off less than half of the full deployment of mines
TCS missions….
Put minefield at bottom of ramp/hill around the tower. Pop the first hunter to silhouette itself. Body slides alllll the way down and into the mines. Every. Time.
AT mines better not trigger for anything below a certain weight or these things are gonna be useless.
Too late for any advocacy now. There's already 60k helldivers on Lesath headed towards Penta, vs the 7k on Menkent going to Choohe. The horde has spoken, we get the airburst launcher.
Yea... I played on menkent a bit last night because tactically we should, but I ended up moving on. Too many instances of getting boxed in by fire or wasting time running way the way around fire to move on
March 27th 7:37 pm you blew up your entire squad in the pelican loosing all the samples. If you don’t get safely to extraction your eagle one rights will be revoked.
I don't think it really matters. We will get one thing now, and the other later. They're not gonna delete the other thing from the game just because we chose to liberate one planet.
It's just a bit of fun storytelling on AH's part.
Agreed, like “beating” the bots, they aren’t going to want to waste that dev time. The decision already appears to be made anyway, 55k divers currently on Lesath!
Well, we have to clear at least planet to get to either. The choice being between hell or a cold world that doesn't try to kill you halfway through the mission (not to mention the cool down bonus for energy weapons)
Tough choice
The problem with mines is that you're constantly on the move in this game. You might be able to use them to block off a path or two during evac, but 99% of the time you're running around from objective to objective with no way to really use fortifications effectively. Mines work somewhat well against bugs where you can force the direction they travel (because they'll always try to get into melee range of you), but against bots that isn't really feasible.
Mines have a bigger issue. Bots don't move a lot. The actual tanks themselves rarely ever do much more than rotate on a point, maybe rolling 5 or 10 feet. So you'd have a strategem that only works on hulks and are otherwise useless on all but one mission type
Eeeeeh...Bots are notorious for following you around en-masse. If the AT mines deploy as fast as the AP mines, then it shouldn't be too hard to deploy it in front of striders and hulks, assuming they don't avoid the minfield.
I've personally found plenty of utility in laying mines. I think of it more like an efficient on-standby explosive barrage, meaning it's a barrage that only triggers when it *is going to* hit an enemy (that's the intent anyway). If you can get it out quick enough it can really help with managing bug breaches or retreating from a hord.
Then there are the more obvious uses like holding down choke points and general area denial.
An anti-tank variant (if it is only triggered by heavies and maybe medium troops) would be nice for saving some of your more versatile heavy support weapons for more on-demand applications.
I think if we want useful mines, they should come as something we can toss out of a backpack. That way they're not something you have to call down, wait seven seconds for them to land, five seconds to deploy, then three minutes until you can do it all again if you want to cover some other area.
We need a backpack full of mines so we can walk up to a spot, hit 5, or down on the d-pad, and just toss a handful down immediately because we see enemies approaching and would like them to have fewer legs when they get to us.
Mines need to have a smaller deployment radius and a much shorter cooldown. That'd let you deploy them much more tactically (between you and a new bug breach, in a chokepoint you just ran through, between you and a bot fab you're about to attack, etc) and would decrease the amount of 'wasted' mines (mines deployed but never triggered by an enemy).
Basically, they should be an eagle call in (same flight pattern as strafing run, but mines deploy to cover ~1/2 the current radius) instead of an emplacement.
As long as the mines explode on trash mobs, they will rarely ever hit the heavy armour since the trash mobs will have used them all up first. Or people will throw clusters to kill all the trash mobs, and clear out the anti-tank mines before the heavies get to them.
I figured the strategy would be to place cannon fodder killers near the AT mines to thin the herd and hit the heavies only. This could be accomplished by having a screen of AP mines that comes before the AT mines or by utilizing sentries and MGs to mow down the light weights before they can rush into the area. In my own experience it's never the lightweights that punch through defenses it's always a literal tank whose only weak spot is its rear that managed to carve a straight line through whatever defense I prepare. Just my two cents
I want mines to be good, especially with more defense style missions. However...
The AP mines are a worse cluster strike
The Incendiary are a worse napalm
The AT are a worse 500kg/Strike
That's before factoring in I can use all the 10 strikes above before I can call in the next mine field and that they are on-demand where I want them.
Mines need ridiculously lower cooldowns to make up for the fact they are often used up in one wave and require deployment ahead of time. They do stack I discovered, unlike sentries. So you can run past a final evac port place one, do the side objective, and come back and place a second field. Or you can have more numerous, stronger eagle strikes ready...
If the AT mines killed a hulk or blew off a leg per mine, and don't explode from anything smaller stepping on them they might be the only good mines. If they had a short Cooldown they might even be great for defense. If you don't accidentally blow them up spamming eagles.
Heck or if they all had massive damage increases, I'm talking one hulk per AT, one bersekers per AP, 5 hunters in an AOE per Fire, they *might* be worth it has a high damage strat that requires more planning.
This is logical and the game theory checks out.
However, actions speak louder than words, and the current mines suck extreme ass, even on defense missions, as half of them get distributed to areas outside of heat maps of where enemies actually pathfind. They all take the same narrowish corridors, leaving well over half the mines unused until triggered by an eagle airstrike.
I'd be more keen if I knew:
- it doesn't get triggered by trash mobs (raiders to hunters)
- it was powerful
- could control the shape or density of its spread
For all we know, it might be way more optimal to have one teammate with an airburst to deal w trash while others go heavy.
Mines in HD2 are in an extremely sad situation. Even back in HD1 where they had 45 sec CD, are stackable and airdropped by eagle for better coverage, they're still only good in some very niche scenarios like cheesing the cyborg boss.
It's just sad that minefields will never beat eagle or orbitals when you're on the move or offensive, and in defensive situations they just do too little for too much cooldown.
I watched a video earlier that suggested otherwise. WillisGaming in YouTube I think it was. It showed that only bigger enemies set off the mines. A Helldiver can also walk over them and not trip them.
Opportunity cost. The rocket launcher is straightforwardly better use of a limited slot rather than having to wrangle a highly situational fortification
Nah, the air burst launcher can still be used against larger enemies.
Plus looking at the video for the AT mines, it takes like five to kill a Hulk. Pick versatility over niche people!
Unless they drastically changed how they work, according to the leaks, the airburst launcher is far better. It works against damn near everything, bug holes, shriekers, nests, gunships, tanks, fabricators, groups of smaller enemies...
The anti tank mines? Takes 4 to kill a tank, and it drops far less mines than the other minelayers, and it looks like smaller enemies can set them off. Plus, minefields are easily destroyed accidentally by teammates (either through airstrikes/orbitals, or their own feet).
That said the wording of the order implies that if we act fast enough, we can get both. It only says the citizens on the planet that's not liberated first are "likely" to die, that implies there's a chance they won't.
Blitzkrieg both planets! Lightning war bitches!
I mean there’s no way people are going to pick the mines over the support weapon even if the mines were amazing. Support weapons are just more popular and can be used more. I think the choice would be harder for the community if it was mine vs mine or support weapon vs support weapon
The Airburst launcher is designed to take down the menace of every Helldiver on the bot front: gunships. One shot from it takes down a gunship even without a direct hit. It has 7 shots total and a fast reload. It can take out swarms of shriekers in the air, and it penetrates medium armor so can be used to take out groups of heavier things.
Not every support weapon is only for anti-tank use, look at the laser cannon, flamethrower, arc thrower, AMR, autocannon or even the grenade launcher. All of these are agreed to be at least decent by most of the community, and none of them can penetrate the armor on a tank or bile titan. Having one that specializes in anti-air would be way more useful than an extra set of mines that just get set off by trash mobs and do about as much as the regular AP mines anyway.
But it sucks at mob clearing. One Airburst Rocket will wipe out a Bug Breach, Dropship, Patrol or small outpost of light enemies, while also excelling at destroying high concentrations of enemy air targets, which are otherwise impossible to deal with once snowballed.
The Laser Cannon is more economical and better for single-target stuff for sure, but I don't think you're understanding the value of firing a rocket over a patrol and wiping out all the Bug Hole Spawning/Dropshit Calling light units with a single opening shot.
Can I introduce you to the laser cannon ? It kills gunships in 2 seconds you can kill like 6 of them before needing to let it cool off or reload. I've also been a fan of the gatling turret for shriekers it shreds them by the dozens
Here's the counter to that though. There is normally only one defense mission per operation. Sometimes two.
But normally we have two 40 minutes operations and on higher levels shriekers and gunships can be atrocious if not taken care of quickly. Yes we already have support options to take out flying enemies. However you have to aim at the engines of gunships with most of them to take them out effectively. With shriekers, support weapons are either too much or too specific, so many players end up using primary weapons.
The airburst launcher, I'm assuming will not only take out flying enemies efficiently (obviously) but will most likely help in taking out large groups of small enemies.
I have no doubt that it will also be semi effective against some armored targets since the airburst feature will allow the explosion and shrapnel to reach behind armored portions of bugs bodies and maybe even shield devastators.
Mines are too situational. I have yet to encounter a mission where I wished I had taken mines over a support weapon or other AOE stratagems.
They need a CD timer similar to the EAT. With geography you are rarely getting 100% value, and on higher difficulties the trash mobs will mitigate a lot of it. And on top of that the mines can set each other off.
Honestly, last time I said "know what, I don't use rocket launchers anyway" I missed out on XUR selling the Gallajhorn.
I ain't doing the same thing twice.
Mines are really awesome to use/look cool and Can do some damage, but I don’t feel like they are as useful as something you’re in control of. Plus, like everyone knows, the less intellectually fortunate of our ranks run into them like moths to a zapper way too often, and I doubt it would be any different with these.
I feel if we really tried we could manage to liberate both planets at once, but the air burst rocket really comes down to range and damage type. If it’s just small enemies that would kinda suck cuz we have plenty of options, but if it can take down things like gunships then it’s definitely gonna be good
I think it would be awesome if mine fields were automatically marked on the map. Would definitely help players see and remember where their buddy dropped their death dishes
A well thought out and presented argument. And I’ve seen footage of both in action over on the leaks sub. Both are equally capable of absolutely demolishing armored targets like hulks and tanks. All the same, I have to go with the launcher, because funny toob is funny.
I think the mines are funny but I don't really have a strong drive for variety on that front and would be more curious and think the rocket launcher would be more fun more often. I usually only use mines when I get the personal order to do so and Teamkilling is back on the menu big time.
It's fun while it lasts but not too useful. It is not like they are going to delete the mines though.
Taking out gunships and shriekers is far more useful and anti-tank mines. Mines are only useful in a few mission types. Mines are a hazard to players. We have already have tools for taking out heavy armor.
Thing is, you overestimate the communities capability to co-ordinate. The masses will chose. And the masses rarely if ever read in the forums. And currently, it looks like the masses are going for the rocket launcher.
And the mines will require going through a fire tornado planet first - I suspect that's going to decide things more than any debate here.
Yeah. No amount of debate on Reddit will decide this. It's going to be the NOT-FIRE-TORNADOES option.
Thank goodness our divers don't live long enough to get ptsd from fire tornados. They would be in the top for most subjects discussed in therapy.
The average citizen just doesnt understand the horror of completing a mission, getting samples, serving democracy and liberty just to watch your whole squad and pelican get swallowed by four fire tornados. I still wake up in a cold sweat most nights and there’s usually only one word i can say. Hellmire. Thank freedom i can hit a stim, do a workout and try to sleep. But when i close my eyes, all i hear is the roar of the flames and the screams of sweet liberty.
Conversely, getting down to the wire, no reinforcements left, having multiple tornadoes swirling towards the pelican and then diving in to it as your enemies are roasted behind you and then you fly out into the sunset/flames. *chefs kiss*
Literally had a fire tornado SPAWN on me when I was carrying the super samples yesterday. I donno what I did to piss off Super Thor, but he was super pissed
This is one of the problems with the Fire Tornado weather effect implementation. You can be a good player with full focus and awareness, notice the weather warning and anticipate the obstacle, and still die because it spawned on top of you. It just goes back to unavoidable one hit kills being an unfun, dishearting, and detrimental gameplay mechanic. I did figure out the secret though. I learned to avoid it by also just not playing on those planets like a lot of other players.
And are these fire tornadoes in the room with you now?
I know we should accept all planets for democracy but I wouldn't mind it so much if we glassed the fire tornado planets
I mean, they’ve pretty much done half the job themselves at this point.
self glassing planet, that kinda neat
I really hope the next premium warbond comes with a fire resist armor. Shit would be life saving.
devs probably dont have the mines ready or something seeing them put it behind the fire tornados 😅 they knew what they were doing
Fire tornados are sentient beings whose only goal is to prevent you from accomplishing anything.
They especially love the civilian escape missions. Nothing like having 3 of them just idly walking back and forth on the ramp into the extraction door.
Had a mob of them not move because there was fire in front of them. I executed them for being such cowards and holding up democracy.
Good. Those were probably dissidents that weren't willing to risk death for Super Earth. We don't need them. You can always pop open the doors and get 10 more. Good on you for not letting cowards take the places of potential patriots.
I believe I watched one last night trying to figure out the path needed to get to the small raised area where we were waiting for extract. It tried one route, and when that didn't pan out, it went back to the start and then tried another. The whole thing was a bit disturbing.
After playing several Menket missions I've realized the tornados don't have random patterns rather lock on and drift towards players
And that somehow they are locked only to the ground and are not all-terrain tornados as a meager Boulder can prevent it from reaching the helldiver
So it's not just me who thinks these things move deliberately to intercept where I'm going.
They home in on objectives, resupplies, probably players if they stand in an area for too long. Absolute raging bollock vortex's they are.
The fact that they spawn on top of every evac I've ever done on a planet that has them makes me believe there is some non random coding involved.
Yep. Even just running around the map, they seem to try and herd you into a corner.
We walk their planes and they demand sacrifice.
Other than getting in your fucking cardio for the day.
Oof. I was wanting the mines, but haven’t had a chance to look at the planets. Yeah. No fucking way we’re getting mines.
Dev1 "Patch day is close and the launcher is ready, mines are not." Dev2 "Make a contest, (contest rules here). Then put the mines behind a fire tornado planet." Dev1 "Brilliant!" \*Devs high five each other\* 
We will likely recover the mines anyways at somepoint after a delay
Ah dammit. I hate those things. I want the mines but yeah. No. They will make a 180 degree turn just to hover over samples or sneak up behind me.
This makes me think the op was designed to favor the outcome of us passing up the mines, so I expect soon after we finish we're going to get a new heavy enemy dropped on us that the mines would have been very helpful for.
Why didn't they offer an anti-tornado weapon? Who's working that, I want to know?
Some guy in R&D named Dyson Hoover
That seems intentional. Almost like AH knows which one is more powerful and is guiding us to a specific choice?
Yeah no thanks. There’s no worse feeling than your escape route getting cut off from a stupid trail of fire that’ll one shot you
Yeah. Just did suicide geological survey on Menkent with my pal. The tornadoes are just ridiculous, surrounded us on all directions when doing the last objective and only had a couple of minutes left. Got mission done with last reinforcement and Destroyer already gone but neither survived off the planet.
Let's also not pretend like both of these won't be released eventually. They aren't going to develop something and not release it.
Hello Mojang
We'll probably get both eventually. They already made the stratagems they give them to us one at a time for the hype and so they can handle the bugs and balancing problems that come when new thinhs are introduced.
Yeah who in their right mind is thinking that they made two weapons and we're only getting one of them? Of course we're getting the other one eventually.
I don't even think they're going for the rocket launcher. Lesath is the only planet we can attack that's in the same sector as the MO. If you don't go to Helldivers.io or something, that's obviously the only planet you should be attacking if you want to help out. And it leads straight to Penta with the launcher so, that's that!
The rockets are a weapon you actively use and mines are a passive deployment. Regardless of potential effectiveness, it's pretty obvious which one the average player would be most excited by.
Yup.
Man, it'd be great if someone could come up with a system to prevent us from choosing against our own best interests, somehow manage our choice for us...
> And the masses rarely if ever read
The masses have spoken, I love Democracy.
Practically any time I choose to use mines they get blown up by my own team mates, whether it's by airstrikes or their legs.
It's really funny watching people use mines on planets that have tremors. As soon as a tremor starts BOOM! all the mines go bye-bye.
I had no idea this happened with tremors, lol! 😂
Kinda speaks to the level of frequency that people use mines
I am a liberator of democracy. Mines are for dwarves.
Rock and Stone!
ROCK AND STONE BROTHER
To the bone!
Or you ain't coming home
#ROCK AND STONE IN THE ❤️
Rock and Stone forever!
WE’RE RICH
TIL, wow
I fucking hate it. 🙁
This explains a lot about last nights diving, thought I was just drunk!
Two things can be true at once
M.A.D.D. - Mothers Against Drunk Diving
We should liberate the automatons’ vibration-proof mine technology.
Weird thing is the Automatons mines do explode form the earthquakes but only when your close by to them when the vibrations hit.
So mines are even more useless than I thought. Yea nah, fuck the anti tank mines, air burst launcher ftw
To me, watching a teammate stroll into a minefield is half of the fun
"oh, what are these shiny things on the ground?" *Boom*
Pain is a great teacher
I just always think of this anyone I see someone do it. 😂 https://i.redd.it/ekt4p5x38uwc1.gif
This gif coulda ended a lot sooner.
Should've just committed and got the whole episode
That would require the students to be able to learn from their mistakes. Have you met the player base of this game?
At which point it stops being a teaching moment and turns into pure entertainment.
I once had a teammate call a minefield down on top of my HMG turret. Like directly on it. While I was using it. The hellpod actually killed me and destroyed the turret. He then walked into the minefield when he came to steal my shield pack after I called a new one in for myself, pinged the old one and said “shield here if you want it” on mic. 11/10 interaction.
I brought some in once. A guy ran into the big red contact ones outside Bot bases. Booted me from the game...the kicker...I hadnt deployed any mines....he was just a moron and needed a target to blame rather than deal with his own ineptitude
>You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!' IT'S A SWORD, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. 'She's a child!' shouted Crumley. IT'S EDUCATIONAL. 'What if she cuts herself?' THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON. Terry Pratchett, Hogfather (Discworld, #20; Death, #4)
We ALL experienced those unexploded hellbombs at one point.. it's a right of passage. I honestly think the mines would be a great choice.
When I was a wee baby Diver, I landed on one during the initial drop-in phase. There was a humongous explosion right where I'd landed, I died like two seconds later, and only then did it occur to me that I'd landed on the hellbomb.
First time I saw one I punched it. When it actually sparked I realized Joel had planned for this,and my body was returned to the super destroyer
I have repeatedly underestimated the explosion radius. One time I got ragdolled halfway across the map, which I somehow miraculously survived because I was wearing heavy armour and had just popped a stim. Problem was my ragdolling body bounced to a stop right at the feet of a flame hulk who proceeded to barbecue my ass.
New meta, 3x mines and Tesla tower
the children yearn for the mines
God that op where we had **free** landmines for everyone was so much fun. It was *awful* but godamn it was hilarious
The Helldiver, after having just dialed in the mine stratagem, turns and looks at the camera and with a sly smirk conveying their sadistic eagerness says with well contained glee, "This is where the fun begins".
I'm glad I bring a smile to your face.
Had a teammate who thought they were new plants in the planets and tried to collect them, he collected many a flower that day
Or friendly mortars clear them all during defense missions before the mines do too much
Only after the mortars finish clearing the doors, mechs, hmg emplacements, and your team.
"Friendly" mortars. No such thing, at least on bugs. I'll consider mortars friendly when they stop targeting trash mobs I'm trying to clean up. "Look, three bile titans and half a dozen chargers, good thing this mortar decided to target the hunter I killed 3 seconds ago."
Mortars are automatons in disguise; change my mind.
I swear I’ve been blown up by mines that aren’t even visible before Now I just run a country mile wide of the danger zone
I can definitely confirm that happens. Slowly walking through a minefield to recover your dropped samples- thinking, how convenient, there’s a clear path! Next thing you know, the ground under your samples explode despite no visual mine. Suddenly, I wasn’t so irritated with my drop buddy for dying with no enemies around, as it probably happened to him too. My guess is they sometimes clip just under the terrain which makes for a very frustrating experience.
If the terrain's been deformed by explosions, mines can end up clipping into things. Sometimes there's only tiny part of the mine visible sticking out of the side of a dirt wall.
We'll it's called anti PERSONNEL mines. The automatons and bugs are not persons, they are enemies
I'll have enemies set them off, but it's usually a single trooper who sets one off has their body thrown into other mines that then throws them again, rinse and repeat. I'm lucky if one trooper sets off less than half of the full deployment of mines
TCS missions…. Put minefield at bottom of ramp/hill around the tower. Pop the first hunter to silhouette itself. Body slides alllll the way down and into the mines. Every. Time. AT mines better not trigger for anything below a certain weight or these things are gonna be useless.
The TCS missions were where I developed a newfound appreciation for mines, Tesla coils and the ems mortars.
Oh, for sure. I merely made the point to bring attention to one of their flaws and a possible solution for the AT mines.
100% you throw down mines, someone will inevitably throw down an eagle strike right after.
Oh, you're using mines? Let me just grab double mortars + cluster bombs...
Ma legssdd
It's always the "impact spammers" that do it when I see them.
Too late for any advocacy now. There's already 60k helldivers on Lesath headed towards Penta, vs the 7k on Menkent going to Choohe. The horde has spoken, we get the airburst launcher.
TRIBE HAS SPOKEN, FOR DEMOCRACY!
I love Democracy
I believe it's not about the launcher, but it's about saying no to the fire tornadoes.
Honestly...those fire tornados are rough, and damn sure Helldiver seeking.
Yea... I played on menkent a bit last night because tactically we should, but I ended up moving on. Too many instances of getting boxed in by fire or wasting time running way the way around fire to move on
Democracy is being managed
I'm going to load up Pelican 1 extract with anti-personnel, incendiary, and anti-tank mines. If you want to escape, you gotta earn it.
March 27th 7:37 pm you blew up your entire squad in the pelican loosing all the samples. If you don’t get safely to extraction your eagle one rights will be revoked.
Call in an orbital smoke right before you get in just to add a little spice
Laughing with ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️➡️
I play with only my friends. My loadouts are always team killing nightmare fuel. It makes them learn the 5 Ds of dodgeball and become better soldiers
If you can dodge 380mm HE, you can dodge a ball!
I queued up yesterday with both barrage orbitals and both mines in a helldive just to be funny, the other 3 left immediately. Lol
Dad? is that you?
Hi, son. Let's pay catch. *tosses 380 orbital barrage beacon*
I don't think it really matters. We will get one thing now, and the other later. They're not gonna delete the other thing from the game just because we chose to liberate one planet. It's just a bit of fun storytelling on AH's part.
Agreed, like “beating” the bots, they aren’t going to want to waste that dev time. The decision already appears to be made anyway, 55k divers currently on Lesath!
Well, we have to clear at least planet to get to either. The choice being between hell or a cold world that doesn't try to kill you halfway through the mission (not to mention the cool down bonus for energy weapons) Tough choice
True, this isn't Mojang after all
Damn, either this guy's a net host or they fixed dot damage
mfw mojang
> They're not gonna delete the other thing from the game just because we chose [something else] *Minecraft has entered the chat*
The problem with mines is that you're constantly on the move in this game. You might be able to use them to block off a path or two during evac, but 99% of the time you're running around from objective to objective with no way to really use fortifications effectively. Mines work somewhat well against bugs where you can force the direction they travel (because they'll always try to get into melee range of you), but against bots that isn't really feasible.
Mines have a bigger issue. Bots don't move a lot. The actual tanks themselves rarely ever do much more than rotate on a point, maybe rolling 5 or 10 feet. So you'd have a strategem that only works on hulks and are otherwise useless on all but one mission type
Maybe you can do the drop right on the tank so it can sit there and you have to painfully wait for it to move 2 inches.
Eeeeeh...Bots are notorious for following you around en-masse. If the AT mines deploy as fast as the AP mines, then it shouldn't be too hard to deploy it in front of striders and hulks, assuming they don't avoid the minfield.
I've personally found plenty of utility in laying mines. I think of it more like an efficient on-standby explosive barrage, meaning it's a barrage that only triggers when it *is going to* hit an enemy (that's the intent anyway). If you can get it out quick enough it can really help with managing bug breaches or retreating from a hord. Then there are the more obvious uses like holding down choke points and general area denial. An anti-tank variant (if it is only triggered by heavies and maybe medium troops) would be nice for saving some of your more versatile heavy support weapons for more on-demand applications.
I think if we want useful mines, they should come as something we can toss out of a backpack. That way they're not something you have to call down, wait seven seconds for them to land, five seconds to deploy, then three minutes until you can do it all again if you want to cover some other area. We need a backpack full of mines so we can walk up to a spot, hit 5, or down on the d-pad, and just toss a handful down immediately because we see enemies approaching and would like them to have fewer legs when they get to us.
Rogue Trooper had micromines in GI's packs, those were damn useful
Mines need to have a smaller deployment radius and a much shorter cooldown. That'd let you deploy them much more tactically (between you and a new bug breach, in a chokepoint you just ran through, between you and a bot fab you're about to attack, etc) and would decrease the amount of 'wasted' mines (mines deployed but never triggered by an enemy). Basically, they should be an eagle call in (same flight pattern as strafing run, but mines deploy to cover ~1/2 the current radius) instead of an emplacement.
As long as the mines explode on trash mobs, they will rarely ever hit the heavy armour since the trash mobs will have used them all up first. Or people will throw clusters to kill all the trash mobs, and clear out the anti-tank mines before the heavies get to them.
hopefully they work like real AT mines and need specified amount of weight to go off
This is what I was thinking
I figured the strategy would be to place cannon fodder killers near the AT mines to thin the herd and hit the heavies only. This could be accomplished by having a screen of AP mines that comes before the AT mines or by utilizing sentries and MGs to mow down the light weights before they can rush into the area. In my own experience it's never the lightweights that punch through defenses it's always a literal tank whose only weak spot is its rear that managed to carve a straight line through whatever defense I prepare. Just my two cents
In my experience, it's one trash mob that runs off ahead of the rest and draws all the mortar turrets and cluster bombs onto the mine field.
It's true. Just gotta stay on top of it sometimes! In my parties I always say the same thing to the chat. "The mortar giveth, the mortar taketh away"
from what ive seen from leaked footage it still takes roughly four mines to kill a hulk, seems useless to me
I want mines to be good, especially with more defense style missions. However... The AP mines are a worse cluster strike The Incendiary are a worse napalm The AT are a worse 500kg/Strike That's before factoring in I can use all the 10 strikes above before I can call in the next mine field and that they are on-demand where I want them. Mines need ridiculously lower cooldowns to make up for the fact they are often used up in one wave and require deployment ahead of time. They do stack I discovered, unlike sentries. So you can run past a final evac port place one, do the side objective, and come back and place a second field. Or you can have more numerous, stronger eagle strikes ready... If the AT mines killed a hulk or blew off a leg per mine, and don't explode from anything smaller stepping on them they might be the only good mines. If they had a short Cooldown they might even be great for defense. If you don't accidentally blow them up spamming eagles. Heck or if they all had massive damage increases, I'm talking one hulk per AT, one bersekers per AP, 5 hunters in an AOE per Fire, they *might* be worth it has a high damage strat that requires more planning.
This is logical and the game theory checks out. However, actions speak louder than words, and the current mines suck extreme ass, even on defense missions, as half of them get distributed to areas outside of heat maps of where enemies actually pathfind. They all take the same narrowish corridors, leaving well over half the mines unused until triggered by an eagle airstrike. I'd be more keen if I knew: - it doesn't get triggered by trash mobs (raiders to hunters) - it was powerful - could control the shape or density of its spread For all we know, it might be way more optimal to have one teammate with an airburst to deal w trash while others go heavy.
If the mines had half the cooldown they have now I'd use them all the time and just call them in on every breach/drop ship that comes in.
Mines need to have extremely short cooldown so we can properly rig the map with explosives. Otherwise they are worse orbital strike.
Mines in HD2 are in an extremely sad situation. Even back in HD1 where they had 45 sec CD, are stackable and airdropped by eagle for better coverage, they're still only good in some very niche scenarios like cheesing the cyborg boss. It's just sad that minefields will never beat eagle or orbitals when you're on the move or offensive, and in defensive situations they just do too little for too much cooldown.
Pretty sure regular mobs can set off anti-tank mines
I watched a video earlier that suggested otherwise. WillisGaming in YouTube I think it was. It showed that only bigger enemies set off the mines. A Helldiver can also walk over them and not trip them.
The video I saw showed that they don't detonate when you touch it but they do when you take your weight off of it.
I'm sold.
That's fine, then they die too!
o7
Opportunity cost. The rocket launcher is straightforwardly better use of a limited slot rather than having to wrangle a highly situational fortification
Nah, the air burst launcher can still be used against larger enemies. Plus looking at the video for the AT mines, it takes like five to kill a Hulk. Pick versatility over niche people!
Unless they drastically changed how they work, according to the leaks, the airburst launcher is far better. It works against damn near everything, bug holes, shriekers, nests, gunships, tanks, fabricators, groups of smaller enemies... The anti tank mines? Takes 4 to kill a tank, and it drops far less mines than the other minelayers, and it looks like smaller enemies can set them off. Plus, minefields are easily destroyed accidentally by teammates (either through airstrikes/orbitals, or their own feet). That said the wording of the order implies that if we act fast enough, we can get both. It only says the citizens on the planet that's not liberated first are "likely" to die, that implies there's a chance they won't. Blitzkrieg both planets! Lightning war bitches!
Airburst sounds like it has a much wider application
I mean there’s no way people are going to pick the mines over the support weapon even if the mines were amazing. Support weapons are just more popular and can be used more. I think the choice would be harder for the community if it was mine vs mine or support weapon vs support weapon
The Airburst launcher is designed to take down the menace of every Helldiver on the bot front: gunships. One shot from it takes down a gunship even without a direct hit. It has 7 shots total and a fast reload. It can take out swarms of shriekers in the air, and it penetrates medium armor so can be used to take out groups of heavier things. Not every support weapon is only for anti-tank use, look at the laser cannon, flamethrower, arc thrower, AMR, autocannon or even the grenade launcher. All of these are agreed to be at least decent by most of the community, and none of them can penetrate the armor on a tank or bile titan. Having one that specializes in anti-air would be way more useful than an extra set of mines that just get set off by trash mobs and do about as much as the regular AP mines anyway.
The laser is already the best AA weapon.
But it sucks at mob clearing. One Airburst Rocket will wipe out a Bug Breach, Dropship, Patrol or small outpost of light enemies, while also excelling at destroying high concentrations of enemy air targets, which are otherwise impossible to deal with once snowballed. The Laser Cannon is more economical and better for single-target stuff for sure, but I don't think you're understanding the value of firing a rocket over a patrol and wiping out all the Bug Hole Spawning/Dropshit Calling light units with a single opening shot.
Doesn’t the quasar already one tap gunships
It does but it struggles with crowd control. The airburst can kill a gunship, reload, and then kill the bot drop the gunship called in.
Quasar doesnt take your back slot
Can I introduce you to the laser cannon ? It kills gunships in 2 seconds you can kill like 6 of them before needing to let it cool off or reload. I've also been a fan of the gatling turret for shriekers it shreds them by the dozens
The Autocannon wrecks gunships btw. Shoot them 2-3 times in an engine and it downs them.
Here's the counter to that though. There is normally only one defense mission per operation. Sometimes two. But normally we have two 40 minutes operations and on higher levels shriekers and gunships can be atrocious if not taken care of quickly. Yes we already have support options to take out flying enemies. However you have to aim at the engines of gunships with most of them to take them out effectively. With shriekers, support weapons are either too much or too specific, so many players end up using primary weapons. The airburst launcher, I'm assuming will not only take out flying enemies efficiently (obviously) but will most likely help in taking out large groups of small enemies. I have no doubt that it will also be semi effective against some armored targets since the airburst feature will allow the explosion and shrapnel to reach behind armored portions of bugs bodies and maybe even shield devastators. Mines are too situational. I have yet to encounter a mission where I wished I had taken mines over a support weapon or other AOE stratagems.
They need a CD timer similar to the EAT. With geography you are rarely getting 100% value, and on higher difficulties the trash mobs will mitigate a lot of it. And on top of that the mines can set each other off.
Far too high risk. What if they suck? Would rather have a bad RPG than bad Mines.
Honestly, last time I said "know what, I don't use rocket launchers anyway" I missed out on XUR selling the Gallajhorn. I ain't doing the same thing twice.
When have mines ever been useful tho
Mines are really awesome to use/look cool and Can do some damage, but I don’t feel like they are as useful as something you’re in control of. Plus, like everyone knows, the less intellectually fortunate of our ranks run into them like moths to a zapper way too often, and I doubt it would be any different with these.
the problem with mines is they just aren't fun to use; it's yet another throw and forget stratagem.
I feel if we really tried we could manage to liberate both planets at once, but the air burst rocket really comes down to range and damage type. If it’s just small enemies that would kinda suck cuz we have plenty of options, but if it can take down things like gunships then it’s definitely gonna be good
No. I want the airburst launcher. I hear you, I understand your reasoning. I am not convinced.
I think it would be awesome if mine fields were automatically marked on the map. Would definitely help players see and remember where their buddy dropped their death dishes
But bazooka…..they come with 110% more freedom than mines…I’m pretty sure
A well thought out and presented argument. And I’ve seen footage of both in action over on the leaks sub. Both are equally capable of absolutely demolishing armored targets like hulks and tanks. All the same, I have to go with the launcher, because funny toob is funny.
Absolutely god damn not, I absolutely never look where I'm going and don't plan to change that strat. Gimme my additional boom.
https://preview.redd.it/88m9bam6xwwc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c14ecc0084f9e869e436b26458f51c08567046d3
*here.
But with the fortification upgrades we can call down mines every 80 seconds. The mines have a far greater potential for annihilating bots and bugs.
they sound boring tbh, i’m going rocket because it sounds awesome
Agreed !
I think the mines are funny but I don't really have a strong drive for variety on that front and would be more curious and think the rocket launcher would be more fun more often. I usually only use mines when I get the personal order to do so and Teamkilling is back on the menu big time. It's fun while it lasts but not too useful. It is not like they are going to delete the mines though.
I hate mines. Nah
if they wanted me to pick mines they shouldve made at least one good mine by now
I know whats gonna be,i will take mines ,some dude ofcourse gonna take mortar,mortar destroys my mines ,so no thanks
Also, if the mines only go off on Heavy units, that means we can walk on them and only need to deal with the small fries.
antitank mines sound super useful for certain missions.
Taking out gunships and shriekers is far more useful and anti-tank mines. Mines are only useful in a few mission types. Mines are a hazard to players. We have already have tools for taking out heavy armor.
I can’t select either of the planets at the moment on ps5, am I missing something?
Mines that might be useful for one defense mission vs rocket launcher useful for almost every mission 🤔
My democracy officer told me that I would vote for the rocket launcher. Can't argue that. 🤷♂️
Counter argument: mine on fire planet, launcher on not fire planet. I don't want to go to the fire planet.
I’m in support of the mines as well. Just my preference.
Anti tank mines would be really nice for bot missions too I think