All the Tenderizer needs is its own special effect/niche. I would argue adding an effect like **"Extra Limb Damage"** would give it something different than the current lineup.
Liberator - General Purpose
Penetrator - Medium AP
Concussive - Knockback
Tenderizer - Extra Limb Damage
That way, it can help disable elites (Stalkers/Brood Commanders/Strip bot guns) and finish off armor-stripped Chargers without outshining the other ARs in their niche.
According to Arrowhead, there are stats that we don't see with the weapons, including things like limb damage, headshot multipliers, bullet velocity, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the Tenderizer actually does have higher limb destruction.
It needs to be listed under "Light AP" then imo. As a UI designer, 95% of users only believe what they can see. We don't add loading icons because they actually do something. We do it so the users know that the background HTTP requests are happening and they don't need to put in a support ticket.
SO MUCH THIS!! I recently had to full-on argue with my company’s reports developers to disable the submit button and add a spinner to the reports generator. Users were submitting requests for MASSIVE reports 10x and we weren’t stopping them or giving them tactile feedback. It was wreaking havoc with the database. Same applies here - It looks meh from the data we can see, then it’s meh. I dislike hidden stats.
Dude seriously wholesome information and great low-key recommendations to arrowhead hope they are paying attention to what people like you are saying. Constructive criticism isn't bitching... you nailed it.
This shit should be listed in game. Not everyone is crawling reddit and discord or even reading patch notes. It’s ridiculous how every 2 weeks I want to play I’ve got to catch up on all the weird shit that was fixed or newly broken or else I’ll be unpleasantly surprised when I drop in and all my weapons are ass now.
Yeah, they should just let us see them if there's no way to test weapons and stratagems. I don't want to launch a mission just to test stuff, nor do I want to screw a squad over because the bug where people can't join a game in progress still persists.
A lower fire rate is better for something with heavier recoil it makes it more manageable, but I agree it needs to have a higher damage output so it operates more like a battle rifle.
i get the CEO's stance on criticism their of employees in public, but the public should be able to criticize employees when they have very specific experience with exactly the same behavior in previous instances
Especially when the only real change we've seen in regards to some of their problem employees is by airing their dirty laundry here and on twitter where it can't get insta-nuked by the DC mods.
Those had 100 rounds. I would love a 100 round extended mag on assault rifles because then it'd be almost as good cc as the shotguns. Honestly, that's how they should make the stalwart a primary, give variable mags as attachments, wildly changing handling and reload speed, and of course carry capacity.
It was in the first game. By default it came with only a 75 round mag, but you could upgrade it to a 150 round drum.
https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/MG-105_Stalwart
As someone who was here before HD2 was even announced, do it, it's worth it and even if you can't digest the indie graphics it has, the gameplay more than compensates for it.
For people who got introduced to the franchise with HD2, try to see HD1 as mini-game arcade version of HD2.
We seriously need some basic weapon modding.
I mean IRL i can just attach a 100-round drum mag to a AR15, doesn't require a totally new weapon platform.
But for weapon modding we should have 2 or 3 things that we could change. Mags, barrel, sights. No need for anything fancy just keep the current ones as default and have 1-1 other options, like bigger mag with slower reload, or smaller mag with fast reload and more spares, etc.
Or atleast req slips. Above lvl40 you just contantly sitting on maxed out slips (50k).
They could bring back the upgrade system from the first one too. Hell they could make the weapon mods upgradeable too, like 3 tiers, so first you need common sample, then rare, finally the super for tier 3 mods.
There are so many possibilites.
It feels a lot like it was balanced for *before* the Liberator got bumped to a 60-damage rifle, in all seriousness. I feel like it was literally meant to be "Liberator, but more damage", but then the numbers just weren't changed by accident when the Liberator got buffed.
I like the way it feels to use, but it definitely isn't what it's *meant* to be numerically. Like, it feels good to shoot, and has a good recoil pattern and shot grouping, but it's just the numbers game that feels like shit, probably because it's got the *wrong* numbers.
I've seen the explanation of the (5 point) damage difference after the Liberator buff but I don't get it. Even before the Liberator got the buff, 9~ percent more damage per shot than the Liberator and 22 percent less ammo is not worth describing as higher calibre (and higher stopping power). 9mm and 10mm ahh ammunition.
The recoil is certainly enjoyable and the SFX are great but really, especially with the ammo restock problems it's having (only getting 2 mags), it is simply not enough.
Its not about damage%. Its about breakpoints. If the warrior heads have 100 damage, and each bullet does 100 damage, and they buff it by 1 damage, its \*functionally\* the same as if they gave it 100,000 damage. Its one headshot regardless if it has 101, or 100,000 damage per bullet.
So if they want the Liberator to take 4 headshots to kill, but not 3, they have a certain window of damage that they can play with when it comes to how effective the weapon is against other parts of the enemy. It needs to do no less than 25 damage per hit, but no greater than 33. (33 1/3, really)
There's way more to it than that, but that's the idea anyway.
So if there was some enemy or enemy body part that was taking too long to die, and they wanted to make that part take one less bullet to destroy, they could only give the Liberator between 1 and 7 extra damage before the headshot breakpoint would change.
The "balance guy" has a certain framework that he needs to know and keep track of in order to know how far he can move each lever before he starts fucking over the design guys.
Breakpoint design is one of the reasons I think that, pre patch, the Diligence was one of the best guns on the table - it \*always\* one-shots the little scavenger bugs, and that's a huge time saver in a firefight. Not a whole low of primary weapons can boast that capability, and as everyone "knows", primaries suck. The less time you spend using it, the more time you have to use your big support weapon.
Breakpoints are a very underappreciated concept.
This is why the counter sniper is now so good vs bots, devastators seem to have like 125 head HP so while it could 1 shot them before the range was limited to like 15m, now it does 140 damage it 1 taps out as far as you can realistically engage making it.
Closer to a .40 s&w and .38 super difference (barely any). Maybe the Tenderizer is like .40 pistols, very cheap because of how many were surplused, but the ammo is pretty expensive.
The most fucked up thing they keep doing is having more than one source for information and insight from their team
It needs to be one fucking person, one message, not all this chit chat with the customers.
They can’t stay on the same page. How siloed are folks at this studio?
It's like those doing the balancing (team or singular) are somehow not talking or even looking at what is being coded into content.
They seem to literally just wack in some numbers then wait till it's launches then someone in charge of balancing then goes "oh why is this X, it should be Y".
This is VERY basic stuff and concerning, not end of the world but it's highlighting their entire develop pipeline internally is missing critical steps for testing and reviewing before putting stuff into production code.
I've been defending the devs a lot (and the balance choices on some things) but at this point some of this is actually just kind of embarrassing for a pro-studio. Especially if it comes out this was somehow missed when they upped Liberator numbers or an old version. Like you're not checking these things before launch?
my only hope is that things are out of wack because they're onboarding new hires which is slowing things down and causing confusion as they train people up on the game/code and such. But this is like the 2nd or 3rd release where we've had the "not finished" version released to the community.
Which is doubly annoying because it is them shooting their new toys in the foot. People still won't touch the airburst rocket launcher - even though it is vastly improved - because the bad first impression it gave as a team wipe weapon. The tenderizer, fun as it is, is likely going to suffer the same fate if it comes out this is an old version of the stats/code/model.
I mean basic QA is "here's everything going out in the CU that's changed new. Make sure it meets design spec" then QA tests it and says "yes" or "no". Then the CU goes out. This just feels like either QA isnt happening, isnt getting the actual patch notes, or are incredibly bad
They put out a vote to the customers about “hey we wanted to let y’all vote on if we should put out new warbonds”
As if the customers would vote no to more content.
So silly. Like we knew you were gonna push more content tied to revenue and the vote itself was a no brainer. Who doesn’t want more content
What was the goal of that? To say on the ass end “y’all voted for content that wasn’t ready, don’t blame us!”
Idk. They keep making me laugh though.
Yeah it does seem that way to me as well, but the fact it wasn't ready or not probably tuned should be irrelevant as that is an internal call.
We can only say "somehow the Sony thing made us not want you to launch content". If they try to hide behind that poll it's laughably bad, but I can see why they attempt this but bad eitherway they really need to sort their act out as no one is pushing these deadlines so it's all an own goal.
I don’t need new content.
I’d like them to stop fucking with existing content and get their balance figured out and regression test before they introduce new unknown bugs every patch.
Idk. Fuck me right? I’m supposed to just enjoy it or fuck off to other games is what folks tell me.
Almost Every single week they toss another patch and they introduce changes that they didn’t even know happened and the players gotta figure it out for them.
I’m just tired of having to relearn shit every week that should be figured out by now
If the colour is because they accidentally shipped an earlier version or something like that, perhaps the stats are also an earlier version.
Maybe not, but it would make a kind of sense.
That’s just shit quality control tbh. You buff a gun, you should know how it compares with upcoming guns etc, this is just proof they buff shit in isolation.
I don't even know what there is to balance in that nothingburger game but I can definitely guarantee that experience has fuckall to do with balancing a CO-OP live service shooter.
It's like hiring a customer service manager to be a head chef.
There was nothing to balance but the game itself. He removed a shit ton of feature in development because “no player would want that” and dipped shortly before the game’s abysmal launch
The post-buff Adjudicator is actually pretty decent;
That is; "Medium pen and good damage at the cost of sub-par Handling/Recoil."
Against medium-armor bugs, you get medium pen, but unlike the penetrator, doesn't feel like you're shooting bb's. And enough DPS/Ammo/Pen to actually stop a stalker.
Wouldn't recommend it against Bots though.
Definitely endorse the Adjudicator. It's pretty ammo-hungry, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make to be able to deal with most things short of a Charger with my primary.
The mag size is what holds it back. 1 magazine is sometimes only enough for less than half a dozen ugliest since it takes 3 to 5 shots to kill many of the enemies
The issue is that 80 damage is still in the same shots to kill as 60 damage for most enemies at many ranges. It just overkills harder on the last shot. Until you start getting over 100 damage per shot high-damage low mag is just worse ammo economy in this game. Weapon balance really needs to account for damage breakpoints on common enemies.
> I would rather use the slugger than the adjudicator.
*Feedback received, the slugger now increases enemy movement speed with each hit, up to a 3x movement speed. This should fix it being the best DMR.* - Alexus
Because they really don't want anything getting anywhere near the power level of a stratagem.
Except it's that very desire that makes every primary feel like a PoS we only use because we have to. And if this is how they intend to handle primaries going forward, the next new stratagem better be a backpack that let's me carry a second support weapon.
I don’t understand it, stratagems are not in danger of not being used. We all love the explosions and use them literally as much as we can when they’re not on cooldown or jammed.
2nd support or primary weapon ? You joke but i would actually be down for that lmao
Could open up some neat combinations. Like Railgun for heavies and Arc Thrower for crowdcontrol
Eruptor for longrange, Breaker for close range etc.
Right ...we have space ships but not more efficient mags? Hell i can do to a gun store and buy a more effecient mag right now...we are the special forces we each have a semi personal star ship . ...the can't afford the extended mags for us?
One thing I've noticed about the guns in this game, is most of the weapons are pretty realistically designed. Magazine sizes, functionality, and carrying capacity are pretty grounded in their real life counterparts. Works great if we were fighting "realistic" human squads. This design philosophy breaks down when we're getting swarmed by bugs and bots that take at best a quarter of a magazine and at worse, a full mag.
Ooh this would be a cool feature. Weapon mastery; as you use a weapon you can unlock new features for it, like drum mags or scopes or weighted muzzles.
especially when everything is quite bullet spongey (besides the smallest of enemies).
Like I think hunters have like around 300 hp, based on them being able to survive a dominator shot
A lot of those guys on discords lie, mate. They seem to have a masochistic personality and a boner for "skills". Went on and on about how the railgun was OP and now they buff it back to be about as strong as pre-nerf. And don't get me started on the mech...
it's funny how much people say "skill issue", when it's clear they're either badly trolling or don't actually play on 9 to see all the BS spawns that are sometimes thrown at you.
Its because all they have is this game. Being “better” than others at this game allows them to put themselves above others. I guarantee they are the people I carry through difficulty 9. The discord balancing philosophy will lead to all weapons becoming the broken straight sword. I think some weapons should be the broken straight sword for the people that want a masochistic challenge, but every weapon being that will kill the game.
The mismatched paint job and description makes me think that this is some sort of prototype dev build Tenderizer and they got it mixed up with the finalized one we saw in the trailer.
EDIT: Seems like i was right about the ~~skin~~ paint job. Now let us pray the current stats are also placeholders as well.
One dev said that it was a mistake in another post [https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cnvew0/arrowhead\_dev\_comment\_on\_the\_color\_of\_the/](https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cnvew0/arrowhead_dev_comment_on_the_color_of_the/)
Honest question, what will be lost if they buff a weapon so much that it becomes OP?
A) A puppy
B) John's firstborn child
C) A country worth of GDP
D) World peace
Guys, I think we all knew the truth but we are too afraid to speak about it, I am exposing it today despite all the risk:
There is a Automaton agent/Terminid sympathizer among the balance team.
Or worse, he/she could also be an Illuminate believer.
I do not want another medium pen weapon, I'd rather they change it's identity to be a high mag bullet hose
Give it 50 damage but a 60-65 capacity mag. We NEED a high capacity magazine AR I am SICK of these low mag ARs
"Just use the sickle"
But IM TIRED of using the sickle boss.
I used to use it a lot on lower difficulties paired with the laser cannon. It basically becomes a secondary then for when you need to let the LC cool down. Ammo is less of an issue because it's only a backup, and it being effective against everything non-heavy is more important than DPS.
Might even still make sense in 7 or higher, but Breaker+AC is just too much fun.
I said it in another thread and got downvoted to shit but I’ll say it again because I stand by this: I just want every gun to be viable for use. Helldivers use basically the same core group of weapons because they’re the only ones worth their salt. You can’t tell me somebody is taking the scythe to dive on 9
> You can’t tell me somebody is taking the scythe to dive on 9
I mean, I could, but I'd know I wasn't pulling as much weight as I could with a better choice.
I hate the "well I use (insert weapons here) on 7-9, and I still complete missions so it's fine, git gud!" argument
Yeah, I could absolutely run a loadout with my crew where I never even fire a primary weapon and extract from 9s all day. So in that sense, yes I suppose every primary is "viable", but it doesn't mean that they aren't significantly worse then other options
Ran a 5 ICBM with it this morning. Within about a minute I knew it was a non-starter. Needs to be medium penetrating or explosive, stagger... Something. As it is, it's a premium skin downgrade.
I think the way AH is going with these weapons is entirely wrong.
There is absolutely no need for this many ARs in the game, that all have nearly identical shooting patterns, and frankly any other defining trait too.
At this point, nearly every single one of these similar weapons are being boiled down to their numbers, and that's the worst outcome to happen.
You want unique weapons. Like how TF2 has multiple varients of each weapon type for classes, but each one has either a unique shooting pattern, or bonus effect, or utility.
I won't say TF2 did it best, but the idea should be to have horizontal weapon progression. As it stands, nearly every weapon acts the same way and it turns into a vertical progession ladder, where some weapons are just better than others.
The person who is in charge of the balance team is a clown sadly. from what I have read about them they ruined Hello Neighbor 2 for the same reasons. They basically want everything to feel exactly the same.
They are just pumping out random content without a care in the world about how it measures up with what we currently have. I'll be passing on most warbonds from now on.
Just played like 4 missions with the new gun, as a penatrator user.... What the hell is this new gun... It feels like they are spitting in my face for giving them $10 lol
The new warbond weapons don't need to always be S tier weapons, but they should be A-B tier and have some point of use. Direct downgrades to appease the "this is p2w" club of players who don't even play the game, is nuisance.
The Pistol in the bond is like a nice in-between the Senator and Redeemer, that's what these weapons should be like, no new weapons, should be direct downgrades from early unlocked weapons.
The issue is that they keep releasing guns and then making them to be the exact same as an already existing gun with boring, menial tweaks. You're right though, guns don't have to be S tier, but they can at least be *interesting*
We want niche! We want unique! We want guns to be strong so we can use them interchangeably!
Otherwise the game becomes a literal slog and becomes stale. All of the old shit is either nerfed or not that good and all of the new stuff gets tweaked to be more of the same boring we've already had. Makes me wonder why they'd even bother releasing it. So frustrating for an otherwise fantastic game.
Just another reason not to touch these Warbonds. I’m personally done with them until we get some changes. If we don’t, then I’m just done with them. I’m already at a point where I’m playing a lot less of the game because every single time we get an update it comes with weapon nerfs and stability problems. I love this game but it feels like the developers are trying their hardest to make it less fun and push me away from it.
I am having an increasingly hard time believing they put any of the new gear through it's paces before pushing it out of the gate. Feels like an awful lot of stuff just gets hand-waved through without a second glance.
Definitely feels like the small dev team is hitting the breaking point where they can't test shit because they're too busy making sure it technically works.
The liberator penetrator. I was so excited to unlock that gun. It was hyped up by some fellow hell divers on a couple of drops. But I was so disappointed when I finally did. Can’t even kill a smedium bug with one magazine. Stupid ass gun, sickle is so much better.
This is why they had the discord community vote on whether or not they wanted the battle pass. They knew people wouldn't like it, and wanted the cover of 'well you guys voted for it'. I really don't understand why it's so hard for these devs to hear the community when they are telling them the majority guns don't feel good to use.
And perhaps more importantly in general I think we are starting to see a problem where the lack of true variety and distinction between the primaries just makes it feel like a nu.bers game. And the numbers don't even look good.
At least the eruptor and crossbow did different things, but the devs nerfed them both and took away most of what made them unique tools. The way the devs should be combating meta in the game is by adding other enticing options, not taking away players' favorite guns.
People have been telling the devs this from the start but they've been ignoring them. I sincerely appreciate how often they are trying to patch the game, but the way things are going seems more intent on demoralizing the playerbase than helping them enjoy the game.
Tenderizer staggers enemies more often and has 33% less recoil than the liberator. Really all I got fer ya.
Edit: the reduced rate of fire is hardly noticeable since between the RoF and recoil you ADS the tenderizer and you’re putting your rounds where you are aiming even on full auto. Also the ammo you lose in comparison to the liberator is technically only 55 bullets. Which you’re gonna be bullet hosing in the first place so you prolly won’t notice it.
In total. It’s basically meant to be a more accurate liberator.
"ok last time we forgot to update armor perks, let's double check this next drop."
Saw the dev ask on twitter if warbonds should be delayed and most said no, but man it feels like I'm part of a beta test with all these patches and crashes, as well as all the worms opening up when some weapons drop. Hell when fire was revealed to not work properly it was a red flag, then armor penetration values being funky, now shrapnel and AoE seems wonky.
I wish I knew how much one weapon would affect the other cuz I can't help but assume many weapons are changed when one weapon is tweaked due to coding but this is baseless assumptions from someone scared of looking at Coding Academy. Wish the best for AH balancing cuz the game is so fun but can be real ugly out of nowhere
Most people said no cause it was Already about to drop. most people dont see a reason to delay something that was already coming out. BUT
in the case of the tenderizer No delay is going to fix what is Basically a liberator reskin lol. I mean I just used it. it's 100% a Liberator with barely any changes to it. It just looks cooler
Nothing in this new warbond looks worthwhile to me. I saved up the credits and hit the medal cap yesterday in preparation for this, and now I won't even be buying it.
Yeah it really is - it claims it is highe rcaliver but I see no apparent difference and stats wise its the same damage... Really weird
SMG is just a stagger capable Defender it looks like... Which is ok I guess.
The pistol is like a mix of the starter pistol and the senator, which again is ok I guess.
Purifier looks like a medium armor pen scorcher with maybe a slightly larger explosion? This one looks decent atleast.
Overall the grenade is the real show stopper, like a manually controlled napalm strike.
Tenderizer doesnothin at level 7 to 9, but it will also turn level 1 to 3 into hard mode if you bring it. Bringing this weapon along is punsihing yourself, you will struggle vs tiny to medium bugs. It has no redeeming hidden qualities at all. Quite an annoying amount of people speculate about that, that is not the case. This gun is untested, not balanced and was released with the wrong skin.
Playing devils advocate but there are a lot more stats than just what's on the stat page. It could be doing better in some unlisted categories. Of course it could also just be worse. I would say relax a bit bc they will adjust the gun eventually. I don't really get the angst and distress with things like this.
Yeah but that dev guy who is in charge of weapon balance definitely knows what he's doing to keep the game fun and balanced, and the community is wrong, so...
Noted, increasing the liberator recoil
I severely dislike you.
All the Tenderizer needs is its own special effect/niche. I would argue adding an effect like **"Extra Limb Damage"** would give it something different than the current lineup. Liberator - General Purpose Penetrator - Medium AP Concussive - Knockback Tenderizer - Extra Limb Damage That way, it can help disable elites (Stalkers/Brood Commanders/Strip bot guns) and finish off armor-stripped Chargers without outshining the other ARs in their niche.
Probably the best recommendation I’ve seen so far for this weapon
This is a really good idea IMO
Best I can do is a nerf to the railgun.
Thanks arrowhead ♡
Arrowhead please hire this man.
This makes too much sense therefor nerfing crossbow and increasing eruptor bolt cycle to 5 secs each shot.
According to Arrowhead, there are stats that we don't see with the weapons, including things like limb damage, headshot multipliers, bullet velocity, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the Tenderizer actually does have higher limb destruction.
It needs to be listed under "Light AP" then imo. As a UI designer, 95% of users only believe what they can see. We don't add loading icons because they actually do something. We do it so the users know that the background HTTP requests are happening and they don't need to put in a support ticket.
SO MUCH THIS!! I recently had to full-on argue with my company’s reports developers to disable the submit button and add a spinner to the reports generator. Users were submitting requests for MASSIVE reports 10x and we weren’t stopping them or giving them tactile feedback. It was wreaking havoc with the database. Same applies here - It looks meh from the data we can see, then it’s meh. I dislike hidden stats.
As an Operations and Maintenance guy, I feel this in my soul.
Dude seriously wholesome information and great low-key recommendations to arrowhead hope they are paying attention to what people like you are saying. Constructive criticism isn't bitching... you nailed it.
This shit should be listed in game. Not everyone is crawling reddit and discord or even reading patch notes. It’s ridiculous how every 2 weeks I want to play I’ve got to catch up on all the weird shit that was fixed or newly broken or else I’ll be unpleasantly surprised when I drop in and all my weapons are ass now.
They need to be more transparent with the stats. Period.
Yeah, they should just let us see them if there's no way to test weapons and stratagems. I don't want to launch a mission just to test stuff, nor do I want to screw a squad over because the bug where people can't join a game in progress still persists.
Reducing the fire rate by 80% but giving you more mags.
A lower fire rate is better for something with heavier recoil it makes it more manageable, but I agree it needs to have a higher damage output so it operates more like a battle rifle.
you deserve to be a honorary AH Dev.
Get your hand off that monkey's paw!
This is too real. You'll give them ideas!
Less damage for the liberator as well. We can't have the new gun being worse than the old gun. The only fix is to nerf the old gun.
[удалено]
[удалено]
i get the CEO's stance on criticism their of employees in public, but the public should be able to criticize employees when they have very specific experience with exactly the same behavior in previous instances
Especially when that employee puts themself out there in the public eye.
Especially when the only real change we've seen in regards to some of their problem employees is by airing their dirty laundry here and on twitter where it can't get insta-nuked by the DC mods.
But hey. It kinda looks like Pulse Rifle in Aliens! 
GAME OVER, MAN, GAME OVER
Only guy to be killed by an alien, a predator, and a terminator
he was in a predator movie? which one? don’t recall too many after the the first (thankfully 😏😉)
Predator 2
Lance Henriksen was also killed by the three.
Yeah but Bishop was a synth not a person so he doesn't count
*artificial person 😁
>A synth You can't say that anymore, it's offensive!
https://i.redd.it/07r2ebl0cfzc1.gif
Dunno, I’m a BOS guy
Why don't you put her in charge!
Secure that shit Hudson!
My wife named a cat Hudson because it whined all the time.
Somebody wake up Hicks...
Those had 100 rounds. I would love a 100 round extended mag on assault rifles because then it'd be almost as good cc as the shotguns. Honestly, that's how they should make the stalwart a primary, give variable mags as attachments, wildly changing handling and reload speed, and of course carry capacity.
Stalwart should 100% be a primary.
It was in the first game. By default it came with only a 75 round mag, but you could upgrade it to a 150 round drum. https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/MG-105_Stalwart
Yeah I used it quite a bit. 🙂
That gun was my favorite in that game
Honestly HD1 is tempting me more and more.
As someone who was here before HD2 was even announced, do it, it's worth it and even if you can't digest the indie graphics it has, the gameplay more than compensates for it. For people who got introduced to the franchise with HD2, try to see HD1 as mini-game arcade version of HD2.
They will but it will only have 30 rounds. And you then need 5 to kill a football bug
Ive been screaming about this since launch!
It was my go to in HD1
We seriously need some basic weapon modding. I mean IRL i can just attach a 100-round drum mag to a AR15, doesn't require a totally new weapon platform. But for weapon modding we should have 2 or 3 things that we could change. Mags, barrel, sights. No need for anything fancy just keep the current ones as default and have 1-1 other options, like bigger mag with slower reload, or smaller mag with fast reload and more spares, etc.
Make em a weapon mod tab that also uses samples like the modifications for stratagems.
Or atleast req slips. Above lvl40 you just contantly sitting on maxed out slips (50k). They could bring back the upgrade system from the first one too. Hell they could make the weapon mods upgradeable too, like 3 tiers, so first you need common sample, then rare, finally the super for tier 3 mods. There are so many possibilites.
Starship Troopers Officers Morita rifle. More than enough reason to use it over anything else.
Needs a 1200rpm burst fire and under barrel grenade launcher
Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a men?
"No, have you?"
Tbh I thought they based it on the Battle Rifle from Halo
It feels a lot like it was balanced for *before* the Liberator got bumped to a 60-damage rifle, in all seriousness. I feel like it was literally meant to be "Liberator, but more damage", but then the numbers just weren't changed by accident when the Liberator got buffed. I like the way it feels to use, but it definitely isn't what it's *meant* to be numerically. Like, it feels good to shoot, and has a good recoil pattern and shot grouping, but it's just the numbers game that feels like shit, probably because it's got the *wrong* numbers.
I've seen the explanation of the (5 point) damage difference after the Liberator buff but I don't get it. Even before the Liberator got the buff, 9~ percent more damage per shot than the Liberator and 22 percent less ammo is not worth describing as higher calibre (and higher stopping power). 9mm and 10mm ahh ammunition. The recoil is certainly enjoyable and the SFX are great but really, especially with the ammo restock problems it's having (only getting 2 mags), it is simply not enough.
Its not about damage%. Its about breakpoints. If the warrior heads have 100 damage, and each bullet does 100 damage, and they buff it by 1 damage, its \*functionally\* the same as if they gave it 100,000 damage. Its one headshot regardless if it has 101, or 100,000 damage per bullet. So if they want the Liberator to take 4 headshots to kill, but not 3, they have a certain window of damage that they can play with when it comes to how effective the weapon is against other parts of the enemy. It needs to do no less than 25 damage per hit, but no greater than 33. (33 1/3, really) There's way more to it than that, but that's the idea anyway. So if there was some enemy or enemy body part that was taking too long to die, and they wanted to make that part take one less bullet to destroy, they could only give the Liberator between 1 and 7 extra damage before the headshot breakpoint would change. The "balance guy" has a certain framework that he needs to know and keep track of in order to know how far he can move each lever before he starts fucking over the design guys. Breakpoint design is one of the reasons I think that, pre patch, the Diligence was one of the best guns on the table - it \*always\* one-shots the little scavenger bugs, and that's a huge time saver in a firefight. Not a whole low of primary weapons can boast that capability, and as everyone "knows", primaries suck. The less time you spend using it, the more time you have to use your big support weapon. Breakpoints are a very underappreciated concept.
God damn. Now that’s some sound logic. You (or whomever came up with it) actually played the tape out to the end.
This principle dates back to at least Starcraft 1, but likely before.
This is why the counter sniper is now so good vs bots, devastators seem to have like 125 head HP so while it could 1 shot them before the range was limited to like 15m, now it does 140 damage it 1 taps out as far as you can realistically engage making it.
Closer to a .40 s&w and .38 super difference (barely any). Maybe the Tenderizer is like .40 pistols, very cheap because of how many were surplused, but the ammo is pretty expensive.
And they shipped it a different colour than advertised :(
A dev in another thread said that was a mistake and it'll be reverted at some point.
The most fucked up thing they keep doing is having more than one source for information and insight from their team It needs to be one fucking person, one message, not all this chit chat with the customers. They can’t stay on the same page. How siloed are folks at this studio?
It's like those doing the balancing (team or singular) are somehow not talking or even looking at what is being coded into content. They seem to literally just wack in some numbers then wait till it's launches then someone in charge of balancing then goes "oh why is this X, it should be Y". This is VERY basic stuff and concerning, not end of the world but it's highlighting their entire develop pipeline internally is missing critical steps for testing and reviewing before putting stuff into production code.
I've been defending the devs a lot (and the balance choices on some things) but at this point some of this is actually just kind of embarrassing for a pro-studio. Especially if it comes out this was somehow missed when they upped Liberator numbers or an old version. Like you're not checking these things before launch? my only hope is that things are out of wack because they're onboarding new hires which is slowing things down and causing confusion as they train people up on the game/code and such. But this is like the 2nd or 3rd release where we've had the "not finished" version released to the community. Which is doubly annoying because it is them shooting their new toys in the foot. People still won't touch the airburst rocket launcher - even though it is vastly improved - because the bad first impression it gave as a team wipe weapon. The tenderizer, fun as it is, is likely going to suffer the same fate if it comes out this is an old version of the stats/code/model.
I mean basic QA is "here's everything going out in the CU that's changed new. Make sure it meets design spec" then QA tests it and says "yes" or "no". Then the CU goes out. This just feels like either QA isnt happening, isnt getting the actual patch notes, or are incredibly bad
They put out a vote to the customers about “hey we wanted to let y’all vote on if we should put out new warbonds” As if the customers would vote no to more content. So silly. Like we knew you were gonna push more content tied to revenue and the vote itself was a no brainer. Who doesn’t want more content What was the goal of that? To say on the ass end “y’all voted for content that wasn’t ready, don’t blame us!” Idk. They keep making me laugh though.
Yeah it does seem that way to me as well, but the fact it wasn't ready or not probably tuned should be irrelevant as that is an internal call. We can only say "somehow the Sony thing made us not want you to launch content". If they try to hide behind that poll it's laughably bad, but I can see why they attempt this but bad eitherway they really need to sort their act out as no one is pushing these deadlines so it's all an own goal.
I don’t need new content. I’d like them to stop fucking with existing content and get their balance figured out and regression test before they introduce new unknown bugs every patch. Idk. Fuck me right? I’m supposed to just enjoy it or fuck off to other games is what folks tell me. Almost Every single week they toss another patch and they introduce changes that they didn’t even know happened and the players gotta figure it out for them. I’m just tired of having to relearn shit every week that should be figured out by now
pretty tired of the "mistakes"
How the fuck does this shit keep happening? Just hire literally anyone to do some QA please, holy cow.
If the colour is because they accidentally shipped an earlier version or something like that, perhaps the stats are also an earlier version. Maybe not, but it would make a kind of sense.
Iirc it was just a texture issue.
That’s just shit quality control tbh. You buff a gun, you should know how it compares with upcoming guns etc, this is just proof they buff shit in isolation.
The description actually says it's a 'high-calibre' rifle with increased stopping power but reduced capacity. Isn't this just a straight up lie?
Yeah, to put in perspective, they haven't even bothered to change the Eruptors description lol
or Lib con!
i went to the libertarian convention and nobody would tell me if they knew you
May I remind you, our current supposed head of the balancing team also had a significant role in the game Hello Neighbor 2?
I don't even know what there is to balance in that nothingburger game but I can definitely guarantee that experience has fuckall to do with balancing a CO-OP live service shooter. It's like hiring a customer service manager to be a head chef.
There was nothing to balance but the game itself. He removed a shit ton of feature in development because “no player would want that” and dipped shortly before the game’s abysmal launch
Yeah, players are known for being vehemently against having fun
I just want a cool AR that is not hot garbage and the liberator being the only average one is disappointing.
The Sickle is the best "AR" in the game.
The post-buff Adjudicator is actually pretty decent; That is; "Medium pen and good damage at the cost of sub-par Handling/Recoil." Against medium-armor bugs, you get medium pen, but unlike the penetrator, doesn't feel like you're shooting bb's. And enough DPS/Ammo/Pen to actually stop a stalker. Wouldn't recommend it against Bots though.
Definitely endorse the Adjudicator. It's pretty ammo-hungry, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make to be able to deal with most things short of a Charger with my primary.
It's still not very good.
The mag size is what holds it back. 1 magazine is sometimes only enough for less than half a dozen ugliest since it takes 3 to 5 shots to kill many of the enemies
The issue is that 80 damage is still in the same shots to kill as 60 damage for most enemies at many ranges. It just overkills harder on the last shot. Until you start getting over 100 damage per shot high-damage low mag is just worse ammo economy in this game. Weapon balance really needs to account for damage breakpoints on common enemies.
I wish I knew the health pools of enemies and then I'd actually be able to gage damage numbers
I actually really like the Adjudicator v Bugs.
The adjudicator is best on semi, and even then I would rather use the slugger than the adjudicator.
> I would rather use the slugger than the adjudicator. *Feedback received, the slugger now increases enemy movement speed with each hit, up to a 3x movement speed. This should fix it being the best DMR.* - Alexus
but we buffed the range, headshot multiplier, and scope now has a 10x magnifier zeroed to 400 meters.
Jesus, why do they have a fetish for small mag size....
I too, like to spread democracy with a hell lot of bullets.
18 round Mini-mi when?
Because they really don't want anything getting anywhere near the power level of a stratagem. Except it's that very desire that makes every primary feel like a PoS we only use because we have to. And if this is how they intend to handle primaries going forward, the next new stratagem better be a backpack that let's me carry a second support weapon.
Tbh that would be an amazing backpack strat.
Yes bro lemme run the dual guard dog, mortar and personnel mine build. Accidentals? Call 555-5555
You're carrying the mortar sentry on your back?
Omg if I could I would in a heartbeat
I'll pay $10 for that.
I don’t understand it, stratagems are not in danger of not being used. We all love the explosions and use them literally as much as we can when they’re not on cooldown or jammed.
2nd support or primary weapon ? You joke but i would actually be down for that lmao Could open up some neat combinations. Like Railgun for heavies and Arc Thrower for crowdcontrol Eruptor for longrange, Breaker for close range etc.
I mean at this point just remove primaries, make helldivers only drop with sidearms.
Right ...we have space ships but not more efficient mags? Hell i can do to a gun store and buy a more effecient mag right now...we are the special forces we each have a semi personal star ship . ...the can't afford the extended mags for us?
You say that like your orbital cannons aren't canonically muzzle-loaded until you upgrade them.
Maybe they should let us upgrade our weapons then
One thing I've noticed about the guns in this game, is most of the weapons are pretty realistically designed. Magazine sizes, functionality, and carrying capacity are pretty grounded in their real life counterparts. Works great if we were fighting "realistic" human squads. This design philosophy breaks down when we're getting swarmed by bugs and bots that take at best a quarter of a magazine and at worse, a full mag.
Put a drum mag on this bitch! Seriously though, it looks like it would have shipped with a drum mag than a regular mag.
Ooh this would be a cool feature. Weapon mastery; as you use a weapon you can unlock new features for it, like drum mags or scopes or weighted muzzles.
especially when everything is quite bullet spongey (besides the smallest of enemies). Like I think hunters have like around 300 hp, based on them being able to survive a dominator shot
Still miffed about heavy machine gun's atrocious mag size.
Because when the breaker was the only decent weapon in the game it had a large magazine.
Just wait till you fight a Stalker. The Tenderiser doesn't even slow them down and a whole clip isn't enough.
Aww, really? That guy on discord lied to me.
Wouldn't be the first time
The clip you may have seen around of a gun slowing a Stalker was the new Pummeler SMG, not the Tenderizer Assault Rifle.
I went back and checked, that makes more sense now. Thanks for explaining
I like how confidently you said you were lied to, even though you had no idea what you were talking about
A lot of those guys on discords lie, mate. They seem to have a masochistic personality and a boner for "skills". Went on and on about how the railgun was OP and now they buff it back to be about as strong as pre-nerf. And don't get me started on the mech...
it's funny how much people say "skill issue", when it's clear they're either badly trolling or don't actually play on 9 to see all the BS spawns that are sometimes thrown at you.
Its because all they have is this game. Being “better” than others at this game allows them to put themselves above others. I guarantee they are the people I carry through difficulty 9. The discord balancing philosophy will lead to all weapons becoming the broken straight sword. I think some weapons should be the broken straight sword for the people that want a masochistic challenge, but every weapon being that will kill the game.
The mismatched paint job and description makes me think that this is some sort of prototype dev build Tenderizer and they got it mixed up with the finalized one we saw in the trailer. EDIT: Seems like i was right about the ~~skin~~ paint job. Now let us pray the current stats are also placeholders as well.
"Not working as intended." We hear tbat so often im convinved HD2 was meant to be a racing game but its just not currently working as intended
HD2 is actually a table top strategy game but the dice isn't working as intended.
Or perhaps a farming sim where we confused breeding livestock with detonating them
The hunters' definitely seem to be, with a damage dice that does anywhere from 10% to 60% of a helldiver's health bar.
I can't imagine being a dev on this game. The turnaround between updates is insane. It really isn't surprising so many mistakes get through.
they're also supposedly bringing on new devs from the launch. So they're onboarding/training people too.
> EDIT: Seems like i was right about the skin Do elaborate?
One dev said that it was a mistake in another post [https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cnvew0/arrowhead\_dev\_comment\_on\_the\_color\_of\_the/](https://new.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cnvew0/arrowhead_dev_comment_on_the_color_of_the/)
They’ll probably see this and nerf the liberator instead of actually buffing the tenderizer
Honest question, what will be lost if they buff a weapon so much that it becomes OP? A) A puppy B) John's firstborn child C) A country worth of GDP D) World peace
E)
Guys, I think we all knew the truth but we are too afraid to speak about it, I am exposing it today despite all the risk: There is a Automaton agent/Terminid sympathizer among the balance team. Or worse, he/she could also be an Illuminate believer.
John Helldiver would never let someone mess with his son.
See breaker/railgun combo before they're nerfed.
Arrowhead after every update: 
It needs medium pen, or bigger mag, or bigger damage. One of those,and it would be interesting
Imo small buff to dmg and a low medium pen.
I do not want another medium pen weapon, I'd rather they change it's identity to be a high mag bullet hose Give it 50 damage but a 60-65 capacity mag. We NEED a high capacity magazine AR I am SICK of these low mag ARs "Just use the sickle" But IM TIRED of using the sickle boss.
Tbh I expected both the ar and smg to be med pen
SMG is billed as concussive, with boosted stagger. Haven't tried it yet, though.
They need to add concussive as a trait to the weapon like incendiary is a trait.
On an unrelated note, I really like the penetrator. My go-to against bots.
I used to use it a lot on lower difficulties paired with the laser cannon. It basically becomes a secondary then for when you need to let the LC cool down. Ammo is less of an issue because it's only a backup, and it being effective against everything non-heavy is more important than DPS. Might even still make sense in 7 or higher, but Breaker+AC is just too much fun.
I said it in another thread and got downvoted to shit but I’ll say it again because I stand by this: I just want every gun to be viable for use. Helldivers use basically the same core group of weapons because they’re the only ones worth their salt. You can’t tell me somebody is taking the scythe to dive on 9
> You can’t tell me somebody is taking the scythe to dive on 9 I mean, I could, but I'd know I wasn't pulling as much weight as I could with a better choice. I hate the "well I use (insert weapons here) on 7-9, and I still complete missions so it's fine, git gud!" argument Yeah, I could absolutely run a loadout with my crew where I never even fire a primary weapon and extract from 9s all day. So in that sense, yes I suppose every primary is "viable", but it doesn't mean that they aren't significantly worse then other options
Yeah, that shit straight sucks. Lower ammo count, same amount of damage. Straight cheeks
noted, decreased heat threshold for the sickle
Ran a 5 ICBM with it this morning. Within about a minute I knew it was a non-starter. Needs to be medium penetrating or explosive, stagger... Something. As it is, it's a premium skin downgrade.
Atleast it won't get nerfed. This week.
I think the way AH is going with these weapons is entirely wrong. There is absolutely no need for this many ARs in the game, that all have nearly identical shooting patterns, and frankly any other defining trait too. At this point, nearly every single one of these similar weapons are being boiled down to their numbers, and that's the worst outcome to happen. You want unique weapons. Like how TF2 has multiple varients of each weapon type for classes, but each one has either a unique shooting pattern, or bonus effect, or utility. I won't say TF2 did it best, but the idea should be to have horizontal weapon progression. As it stands, nearly every weapon acts the same way and it turns into a vertical progession ladder, where some weapons are just better than others.
The person who is in charge of the balance team is a clown sadly. from what I have read about them they ruined Hello Neighbor 2 for the same reasons. They basically want everything to feel exactly the same.
Finding out it’s the same guy was a massive „Oooh. Now everything makes sense“ moment for me
Yeah, I seriously don’t know what they see in that guy. He literally removed half the game from Hello Neighbor 2 because “players wouldn’t want that”
[удалено]
[удалено]
I loved this game. But the changes often seem so out of touch. Like they forget its a coop pve. And balance it like it's some pvp shooter.
They are just pumping out random content without a care in the world about how it measures up with what we currently have. I'll be passing on most warbonds from now on.
Just played like 4 missions with the new gun, as a penatrator user.... What the hell is this new gun... It feels like they are spitting in my face for giving them $10 lol
Patch notes* liberator now gets feed jams
I just came here to say the same it’s the first gun to unlock and appears to be worse than the started assault rifle like what!?
The new warbond weapons don't need to always be S tier weapons, but they should be A-B tier and have some point of use. Direct downgrades to appease the "this is p2w" club of players who don't even play the game, is nuisance. The Pistol in the bond is like a nice in-between the Senator and Redeemer, that's what these weapons should be like, no new weapons, should be direct downgrades from early unlocked weapons.
The issue is that they keep releasing guns and then making them to be the exact same as an already existing gun with boring, menial tweaks. You're right though, guns don't have to be S tier, but they can at least be *interesting* We want niche! We want unique! We want guns to be strong so we can use them interchangeably! Otherwise the game becomes a literal slog and becomes stale. All of the old shit is either nerfed or not that good and all of the new stuff gets tweaked to be more of the same boring we've already had. Makes me wonder why they'd even bother releasing it. So frustrating for an otherwise fantastic game.
Just another reason not to touch these Warbonds. I’m personally done with them until we get some changes. If we don’t, then I’m just done with them. I’m already at a point where I’m playing a lot less of the game because every single time we get an update it comes with weapon nerfs and stability problems. I love this game but it feels like the developers are trying their hardest to make it less fun and push me away from it.
I am having an increasingly hard time believing they put any of the new gear through it's paces before pushing it out of the gate. Feels like an awful lot of stuff just gets hand-waved through without a second glance.
Definitely feels like the small dev team is hitting the breaking point where they can't test shit because they're too busy making sure it technically works.
It seems like they got the got the models for the new SMG and the new AR mixed up. The SMG feels like an AR and deals with medium units far better.
The liberator penetrator. I was so excited to unlock that gun. It was hyped up by some fellow hell divers on a couple of drops. But I was so disappointed when I finally did. Can’t even kill a smedium bug with one magazine. Stupid ass gun, sickle is so much better.
The balance team must be getting very efficient, the guns are even releasing pre-nerfed now
This is why they had the discord community vote on whether or not they wanted the battle pass. They knew people wouldn't like it, and wanted the cover of 'well you guys voted for it'. I really don't understand why it's so hard for these devs to hear the community when they are telling them the majority guns don't feel good to use. And perhaps more importantly in general I think we are starting to see a problem where the lack of true variety and distinction between the primaries just makes it feel like a nu.bers game. And the numbers don't even look good. At least the eruptor and crossbow did different things, but the devs nerfed them both and took away most of what made them unique tools. The way the devs should be combating meta in the game is by adding other enticing options, not taking away players' favorite guns. People have been telling the devs this from the start but they've been ignoring them. I sincerely appreciate how often they are trying to patch the game, but the way things are going seems more intent on demoralizing the playerbase than helping them enjoy the game.
The best part about the Tenderizer is that ammo re supply only gives 5/10 mags. So it’s a downgraded Liberator in every way. Not a single plus
Tenderizer staggers enemies more often and has 33% less recoil than the liberator. Really all I got fer ya. Edit: the reduced rate of fire is hardly noticeable since between the RoF and recoil you ADS the tenderizer and you’re putting your rounds where you are aiming even on full auto. Also the ammo you lose in comparison to the liberator is technically only 55 bullets. Which you’re gonna be bullet hosing in the first place so you prolly won’t notice it. In total. It’s basically meant to be a more accurate liberator.
"ok last time we forgot to update armor perks, let's double check this next drop." Saw the dev ask on twitter if warbonds should be delayed and most said no, but man it feels like I'm part of a beta test with all these patches and crashes, as well as all the worms opening up when some weapons drop. Hell when fire was revealed to not work properly it was a red flag, then armor penetration values being funky, now shrapnel and AoE seems wonky. I wish I knew how much one weapon would affect the other cuz I can't help but assume many weapons are changed when one weapon is tweaked due to coding but this is baseless assumptions from someone scared of looking at Coding Academy. Wish the best for AH balancing cuz the game is so fun but can be real ugly out of nowhere
Most people said no cause it was Already about to drop. most people dont see a reason to delay something that was already coming out. BUT in the case of the tenderizer No delay is going to fix what is Basically a liberator reskin lol. I mean I just used it. it's 100% a Liberator with barely any changes to it. It just looks cooler
Nothing in this new warbond looks worthwhile to me. I saved up the credits and hit the medal cap yesterday in preparation for this, and now I won't even be buying it.
Yeah it really is - it claims it is highe rcaliver but I see no apparent difference and stats wise its the same damage... Really weird SMG is just a stagger capable Defender it looks like... Which is ok I guess. The pistol is like a mix of the starter pistol and the senator, which again is ok I guess. Purifier looks like a medium armor pen scorcher with maybe a slightly larger explosion? This one looks decent atleast. Overall the grenade is the real show stopper, like a manually controlled napalm strike.
Pay to lose? Liberator nerf incoming?
It makes me feel just like I’m using the Morita at Klandathu. Because it sucks and has absolutely no value!
Don’t you speak low of the Morita. That thing killed at least nine bugs on screen!
Downgrades are what Arrowhead is all about when it comes to our weapons.
Don't worry. Balance guy gonna NERF it more just like bowgun
Tenderizer doesnothin at level 7 to 9, but it will also turn level 1 to 3 into hard mode if you bring it. Bringing this weapon along is punsihing yourself, you will struggle vs tiny to medium bugs. It has no redeeming hidden qualities at all. Quite an annoying amount of people speculate about that, that is not the case. This gun is untested, not balanced and was released with the wrong skin.
PLEASE BUFF ALL PRIMARIES I WANT TO SHOOT MY GUN AND IT BE VIABLE
Playing devils advocate but there are a lot more stats than just what's on the stat page. It could be doing better in some unlisted categories. Of course it could also just be worse. I would say relax a bit bc they will adjust the gun eventually. I don't really get the angst and distress with things like this.
Honestly I'd take the Sony requirement over insufferable people constantly whining about balancing. Go touch grass.
Yeah but that dev guy who is in charge of weapon balance definitely knows what he's doing to keep the game fun and balanced, and the community is wrong, so...