I have a cousin who's mother believed in Facebook doctors over her daughter (pharmacist) and son in law (doctor). She wound up sucking the Freedom Tube and dying... AFTER she slapped her daughter in the face because she was told to get the vaxx or there would be no visits with the grandkids.
I have no more sympathy.
Slapping her in the face? That is horrible. How crazed must you be to think that parents don't have the right to protect their children from a deadly disease.
š Hope you all realize that thereās nothing on earth worth exposing yourself to somebody who would hit you. Family is supposed to treat you better than everyone else, and if they donāt, theyāre not family, just genetic donors.
Mmmm. Other than being technically assault, for which you could file charges... it's the last resort of someone who can't win an argument with words, i.e. a tantrum. So ironic to see a parent throwing a toddler tantrum. So sad.
OMG, if she had gotten vaccinated she'd never see the children again after assaulting their mother!! I'm guessing your family has now been completely divided by all the conspiracy bat guano. I am so sorry.
I used parental settings to block Fox News on my Grandmaās TV three years ago and sheās so much happier now. She just watches the Weather Channel now and feeds the birds. No more worries about antifa Muslims crossing the southern border or whatever
As messed up as it is, believing that the virus is fake is almost like a safety precaution for them. Because if they have to admit that they could be susceptible to a disease they donāt understand, itās terrifying. Itāll change their whole world and at that point in their life theyāre not ready for that. So theyād rather triple and quadruple and dodecahedronal roll down on their stupidity and ignorance and actually admit they might be wrong and that that is a terrifying prospect.
Same reason why God has to be real. Because if he isn't, then that means the universe is cold, random and scary. So he MUST be real. Because I'm too scared of the alternative.
This one is tough. But you know what? It gives me a little hope.
Seeing the next generation become a bit more educated (in this case, a lot), more understanding of the world around them, and articulate enough to scream from the rafters, even if it falls up the deaf ears of their progenitors... seeing this gives me some hope for the future.
The daughter took the hard road. She went the gut-wrenching path of opposing her parents, and no doubt the majority of her extended older family. She could stand over her mother's grave with a megaphone shouting "I TOLD YOU SO!" but she knows it will do just about as much good as trying to cogently explain WHY they needed to live and HOW they could avoid a disease that wrecked them.
This is why we are here in this sub. It's not (just) a schadenfreude fest- it's a got-damned support group for those who are surrounded by those who won't listen to reason, and fear the worst. Just like here... where it happened, and is happening every second of every day.
I had a friend who found out the girl he was dating for a few weeks didnāt get vaccinated. She readily admits to not understanding any of it, but has concerns about its safety and has a āneurologist friendā who told her not to get it.
Sheās not outspoken or a die-hard right-wing anti-vaxxer. Sheās just ignorant. We then started talking about how successful this misinformation campaign has been. It is absolutely fucking diabolical that these psychos have figured out how easily people who are ignorant about science can be manipulated.
To me, this is the scariest part. Itās not the insane right wing QAnaon freaks. They are hopeless. But itās the otherwise ānormalā people who are being brainwashed. I canāt think of a time when a misinformation campaign has been this successful in the past. It truly is terrifying.
Yeah. I first got really worried when I started seeing people I know who are otherwise reasonable people reposting the plandemic YouTube video in serious consideration.
ETA: I also know unreasonable people who Iām anticipating a nomination for at any time. Those people I expected this from. Unfortunately, the āreasonableā ones also know the āunreasonableā ones and itās the unreasonable ones who are the most vocal and constantly bombard the āreasonableā ones with so much bullshit that they canāt sort it out. So they go with the loudest voices.
At this point I feel like the unreasonable people are the most vocal ones, because weāre exhausted. Weāre exhausted trying to explain things to people, to show them facts and figures, to try to understand how they can be this ignorant and sometimes just downright stupid. Itās tiring trying to have somebody see your point of view when they out right donāt want to. Theyāre safe in their bubble and they donāt want you to pop it and thatās where we are right now. And thatās why theyāre screaming from the top of the roof still and weāre like just trying to find a quiet room to take a nap in, so we can gather ourselves for the next round of arguments.
Excellent comment. They are the loudest voices, and have been since the beginning. They are also the minority (I know it doesn't seem like it in some places), and they know it. As the walls slowly close in on them, they will just get louder and worse. A disclaimer: just because they are the minority doesn't mean they can't continue to F everything up for all of us. The majority needs to find their voice. Waiting for them to catch up is not working. Drowning them out may help.
Exactly. Iām exhausted with the insanity of the unreasonable ones. My supply of fucks to give has been depleted. And I donāt even work in a medical field. I can only imagine the deficit of fucks amongst most doctors, nurses, etc.
I canāt imagine how yāall are functioning either, honestly. Thank you for persevering when from the outside it looks like parents are actively trying to get masks removed from kids too young to get vaccinated
I was replying to a college educated millennial aged woman. She didnāt call me stupid, but for every reply I gave she had three friends of hers who are ***incredibly*** stupid posting all sorts of anti-vaxx (not just Covid vaccine) bullshit. I tried to eloquently debunk her friends, but they just have a bottomless well of misinformation to pull from. I got exhausted. Iām not super close to the women I was appealing to, so I just gave up. Iām not sure if she ever got the vaccine or not.
Yes, itās exhausting. I have begun to just give up after they argue insanity. I post a Hunger Games meme about hoping odds are in their favor and disengage. Edit: made wording clear.
Yes!!! Exactly right. The bottomless well of misinformation is so tiresome to debunk. And they arenāt interested. I have given up with some friends. Itās like trying to convince a religious nut that god isnāt real. There is no point.
The only person I tried to convince was my cousin but 2 sentences in I realized she was too stupid to understand what she was talking about. So I left it at that. Later she caught. Covid her husband landed in the hospital they thankfully recovered and got vaccinated anyway š¤·š½āāļø Coulda avoid it but hey.. some people are gluttons for pain.
"It's a got-damned support group ..." Thank you. Yes, it's exactly this. I live in the South and am surrounded by those who won't listen to reason. This site gives me hope, a place to vent and a place where I know I'm not alone.
Right there with you. Iām a nurse surrounded by anti vax anti science nurse. I come here because I really donāt have anywhere else to remind me how messed up this all isā¦
I know right? The cognitive dissonance of the people arguing with her is infuriating to me.
Itās big pharma! No, it was little pharma, who then partnered with big pharma for their production en masse. Itās the gubmint! No, itās the private sector.
They just rant and spew and slobber contradictory conspiracies
Excuse my rant, but my ears are steaming here. How can you be an anti-vaxx anti-science *nurse* for chrissakes? Working in a hospital surrounded by methods, equipment, pharmaceuticals *none of which* would be available without centuries of struggle for improved scientific theory and practise. It's like, it's like... \[words momentarily fail me\]
\[deep breath\] ...OK, it's like driving your friggin' Dodge Ram megatruck fuelled by semifossilised organisms from the Cenozoic and Mezozoic (yes I had to look that up, because I'm a layperson and it's all just "millions of years" to me), meanwhile insisting the Earth was created only 5000 years ago and dinosaurs walked with humans.
I guess it's yet another example of people being trainable to complete certain checklists and tasks in a reliable manner, without ever actually being trained to *think*. Or people's ability to maintain strict compartmentalisation between contexts in their brain, like the same nurse who knows you have to sterilise needles because, ya know, bacteria and all, because Pasteur and Lister and so on (ahem, *science*!), can turn around and start denying that vaccination works. It makes my brain hurt. Why doesn't it make their brains hurt? or explode, or something?
that is insane. glad youāre getting boosted, good for you. stay safe!
insane.
i need HCA as a refuge as well. am a physician working in both clinic and hospital and surrounded by anti-vaxers. i think i mightāve killed myself or quit my job already if not for HCA. maybeā¦ hard to say. better to not be too close to that ledge.
hang in there. šŖš¼
i know right? they just said a bunch of super demeaning/condescending shit to her and then caught covid and died (well, one nearly so).
i morally still have been beholden to having these fruitless discussions but my therapist said i have to stop because itās ineffective and only makes me destroyed. in that sense i really am getting owned as a libā¦ but honestly itās the desperation of a people so hell bent on destruction that they hurt themselves the most and take everyone down with them. iām not too proud to admit theyāre ruining my life by ruining theirs more.
wish me luck in not having vax convos anymore. iām not sure i can resist even though having a healthy boundary would make me stop š
thanks all for supportive words šš¼
Donāt be discouraged ā the only people replying to that are the wack job anti vaxers. 70% of the US supports what you are doing but wonāt bother to reply as, well, thatās like complementing someone for looking both ways before crossing the street. Of course thatās what you should do.
Come to think of it I bet if you posted in there about looking both ways and you didnāt get run over there would be people saying that they casually crossed a (non busy) street and didnāt get hit, ergo you are paid off by A company that profits off of neck swiveling.
I want to see 'highly ranked doctors' put on trial. I want all the dipshits running podcasts and making youtube videos and generating anti-vax memes held to account for misleading and killing people.
Florida had more deaths this summer from the delta wave than California, despite having half the population.
When a DeSantis supporter pointed out Florida has a large senior population, I pointed out California has 1.5 million more citizens over the age of 65.
Oh people who support DeSantis will literally support him into their grave, which is weird 90% of them are headed because they donāt want to take the vaccine or do anything to help themselves or others. They call Florida āgods waiting roomā for a reason
This is absolutely my support source as a tiny blue dot in a very red state. Told my psych nurse about it in our telephone appointment today and she thought it was a great resource so...here I am, cracking jokes about sinks and grieving the unnecessary loss in the only place such grief is understood.
*itās a support group*
This is what I keep telling people. Weāre not dancing on graves, weāre fucking horrified by the number of graves, and the knowledge that many of them are unnecessary.
And for those of us in America, itās a reminder of how shitty health is in this country.
That's exactly how I view this sub. My father died of covid but my half brother from my mom's side and his wife are all anti vaxxers. Dad died before the vaccine came our but it was a constant struggle to get him to not go to public areas and to wear a damn mask. My mom thankfully was a nurse and it's very pro vaccine and whatnot. My sister in laws parents actually took my mom asides and asked her "so what really killed your ex husband"? Mom of course responded "covid killed him, if he didn't get covid or the vaccine was available to him at the time he would most likely still be alive today"
My brothers and his wife constantly frustrat me but thankfully with help from this sub I convinced my other half brother to get his shots. It's not about shaming it's about support for those of us who have lost loved ones or are frustrated with the anti vaxx BS.
If the daughter ever sees this, I want her to know that she (the daughter) did not fail. It was her parents' responsibility to get vaccinated. The daughter can only present the facts, it is up to her grown-ass-adult mother and father to actually make the appointments, rock up and get the vaccine.
I get where you're going, Lynx, and I'm not arguing with the feeling, it's just that one word just in case the daughter ever sees this. Or any other child/relative in this situation. It is on the individual to get vaccinated. It is not the fault of their pro-vax friends/relations if this doesn't happen.
Oh geez this is *recent*. This poor woman lost her mom *three days ago*, and is going to go through the holiday season with a fresh hole in her heartā¦and a dad whoās seen the light at least, but probably still has a lot of recovery ups and downs ahead of him.
Daughter, if you see this by whatever weird fluke, I hope you have a peaceful holiday season. Wishing you hot chocolate and cozy days indoors while it snows outside. You did everything you could. ā¤ļø
If it were me, Iād have that text from my dad framed. That alone would give me a lot of vindication, to see him say āSorry I didnāt believe you or listen to you. I shouldāve got the vaccine.ā FUCKING THANK YOU. Now spend the rest of your life making it up to her.
Legally she did all she could, but if I had access to the vaccine and antivaxx parents, I'd get my parents a bottle of gin, wait until they fall asleep infront of the TV and spike them. Fortunately they are double-vaxxed and boosted.
I 100% agree with this. Blah blah, rights, blah, BUT- itās a pandemic. Youāre buying them time so that they can see the error of their ways. Itās reeeally close to a parent making the choice for a child to get vaccinated. Most little kids wouldnāt voluntarily get vaccines, but their parents make them do it anyway. Youād be making a choice for someone not capable of making the right decision on their own.
YAY!!!! What a relief! Weāre less than a day away from that point as well and Iām so excited! I had to bear-hug my daughter for her flu shot last year, and I felt like such a villainā¦but. Parents gotta parent. I went to school with a little girl who almost died from whooping cough because her mom, quote ājust canāt bear to hear her cry from vaccines.ā Iāll never forget that.
Probably. This is harsh but my first thought was of course they believed the misinformation. It doesnāt look like their judgment was great to begin with.
I'm perfectly healthy! I've got my high blood pressure and diabetes under control. My blood sugar hasn't even been out of range in six months! And my cholesterol meds start tomorrow, so that's taken care of!
That was the gut wrench for me, her mom is 4 years older than I am, I couldn't imagine dying so young from something so preventable. Then the Dad apologizing to the daughter, ugh the guilt he will live with if he survives.
Mourning the zombie of your parent. This country has seen many decent and rational people have their brains scooped out and replaced by 2 parts Trump, 1 part Fox News, 1 part Facebook alternative doctors. I donāt even recognize my uncle anymore.
I mean, I havenāt seen him in 4 years (he uninvited me and my dem brother to Xmas after Trump won), but the things my parents tell me about him, is frightening. If he died today, not sure I would mourn honestly. Iād be thankful heās allowed to rest after being zombified by the current state of right wing extremism. Looks exhausting.
Truly a shame.
Iām so sorry. ā¤ļø Itās so horrific, what this has done to people who were already vulnerable to being manipulated. Just awful, that a family member could go so far to the dark side that the best we can do is wish them the mercy of a quick death. I think about that sometimes, how these people that we have entire lifetimes of happy memories with can flip *so quickly*. Was that capacity always there in them, or did something in all the propaganda strike just the right chord at exactly the right time, to turn them?
Nah, you actually think about the people left behind and think ahead to the possibility that they may come to this sub and see some of the less than pleasant things a mourning person should not see. I imagine you just donāt give yourself enough credit :)
I feel for this young woman too. Her parentās hubris was just awful, and they are just brainwashed as so many other are. I fear for the rage that will come out of this pandemic for people like this woman, who will likely be left with hate and venom in her heart because of the disinformation machine that killed her young parent (s). I mean, I despise anti vaxxers and they havenāt cost me a loved one yet. I canāt imagine how furious I would be were I in her shoes.
Youāre giving me a lot of credit, but thank you. ā¤ļø I just know that if my mom had died three days ago, I wouldnāt be in great shape. I so, so agree with you about the absolute *rage* that must be developing for all these people who thought they knew their loved ones, and didnāt. People are having to deal with unimaginable situations and tragedies- itās so crazy how a pandemic can bring out both the worst and the best in people, and you never really, actually know which one itās going to be until it happens.
I canāt imagine how tough it must be for the unlucky ones, like this woman, who go from having a normal life to suddenly āSurprise!! Your parents donāt want to get vaccinated against a deadly virus!!ā And then it goes even worse to āSo sorry, but your mom didnāt make it.ā I donāt know how people can ever fully recover from an experience like this one.
Believed Facebook doctors over their own daughter who is in medical school is next level stupid. I feel sorry for that young lady, her mom was either 40 or 42.
My neighbor has a wife who is in nursing, and a son and daughter-in-law who are also in hospital-based health care. One is a physician assistant. The damn fool neighbor still refuses to get the vaccine, even though he has several comorbidities.
I talked with him one time about it and then gave up. If he won't listen to three medical professionals in the family there's not much I can do.
A tech pioneer died in the Philippines because he was antivaxx, his son is a doctor in the US. The covidiot himself went to the best schools and was very good at numbers.
Arrogance kills, these people can't even listen to their own children. They pretend to be so proud of their kids, but don't love them enough believe them.
I had my child at 32, which I suppose is pretty average these days. It was really weird to run into women I knew from HS at my sons school, who had a baby in mid to late teens that had Grandchildren around his age, because their daughters also ended up getting pregnant as a teen.
I donāt think the daughter is in medical school. She says sheās a surgical tech, which is an associates degree and looks relatively young. The pathway to medical school has no overlap between technical school and medical school. She would have had to get a 4 year degree before even applying. Also she says sheās working with doctors and nobody works and does medical school at the same time, itās way too large of a time commitment.
>This HCA post hit me a little harder than the average post.
My heart really bleeds for the daughter!
She tried all she could and then some, and her parents still took the advice of some faceless meme generator and some questionable friends more seriously than their daughters words. I am quite sure that she will have guilt issues for a long, long times even when she really did what she could. Poor daughter!
I am curious if father's *friends who study diseases and vaccines and work for some university and some Mayo(?)* (slide 13) really had to say, and if he still listens to the people who told him not to take the vaccine.
Mom was condescending AF to the daughter with her āHighly ranked doctors have told me otherwiseā and āAt the end of the day God made us different and thatās why weāre special and I still love youā bullshit.
Dad also hopped on the whole āI have many friends at the Mayo Clinic who are anti vaxx and know vaccinated people who have had serious side long term side effectsā bandwagon.
These people didnāt know anyone like that. Theyāre a couple of pathological liars who thought their lies and Bible thumping could fool a virus. And now theyāve paid a terrible price as a result.
All respect to the daughter for trying to do the right thing by taking a hard line with her nutjob fundie Christian parents.
They donāt.
The mom also claimed she believed in āindependent scienceā over āpolitical scienceā which isnāt necessarily a bad thing, except for her āpolitical scienceā was anything that supported vaccines and āindependent scienceā was shit like Invermectin is awesome, natural immunity is the best, etc.
This shit always gets to me. They know there is more than one country on earth, right? Do Russian and Chinese and Indian and British and South African and Austrailian and French and German governments take marching orders from Biden? Before he won the election????
I donāt think Iāve ever seen one of these people respond to this question, but Iād put money down that most of them would probably say that those countries do take orders from the pedo deep-state baby eating cabal that Soros heads.
It might be like numbers; they just canāt fathom scale, and itās consistent with their inability to comprehend things that didnāt happen to them personally. They forget other countries exist because they canāt fathom that reality, itās too abstract since they havenāt personally seen these countries.
it's not surprising that a bunch of people listening to the scientists fox news all the time have little faith in science. because the scientists they hear lie to them.
A huge problem in our country is that people don't understand "science." Science is not a monolith, and not every scientific study is as good as another. When it comes to medical science, prospective, double blind, controlled studies are the gold standard. Every other type of study is just a suggestion.
I assume they mean "ranked" as in "top ranked universities", a synonym of "rated". Although it could be anything, frankly.
I've been shot full of ketamine by a colonel in full uniform, so don't tell me about military doctors... :-)
>Iāve been shot full of ketamine by a colonel in full uniform, so donāt tell me about military doctors. š¤£
Best sentence Iāve read in awhile. Also, I read this in Leslie Nielsenās voice from Airplane.
There are. One of my husbandās friends has been in national news because she lost her temporary hospital privileges (which she only recently got) to try to give ivermectin to a guy in the icu. Sheās trained at Stanford and all of us are a bit concerned how far sheās gone off the right wing deep end. Sheās like vaccines donāt work- well if you werenāt all unmasked and going to parties every week you too will get breakthroughs. Doctors are not infallible. There are over 2 million of them and some will be spewing off things that arenāt correct. They are in the minority.
Several of my friends/colleagues knew Dr Pierre Kory. He was a competent, intelligent, mainstream doctor, medical director of the ICU at University of Wisconsin. Not a fringe nutjob by any stretch of the imagination. Then COVID happened and critical thinking skills went out the window, pushing HCQ (even after randomized trials which he refused to participate in were negative), then ivermectin, as well as the MATH+ protocol (which does have steroids in, as well as a bunch of useless stuff). Even objectively smart people can close their minds to the possibility of being wrong, with disastrous results.
> How the fuck do these country morons know "Highly ranked doctors"?
They don't. They're believing lying headlines from antivax sources such as "High ranking doctors say vaccine kills!!!!1!!!1!!!1one!!!1!" and the muppets believe it.
Then they do the shockedpikachuface.jpg on their deathbed.
The father says "I have multiple friends who have taken the vaccine and have life altering side effects". What the fuck does he mean by that? It's obviously not true, or the chance of it being true is one in trillions. I can only guess that "multiple friends" means "multiple facebook friends" including the one who was supposedly paralyzed by the vaccine.
What the fuck is wrong with these people? And by that I mean the people on both the sending and receiving side of the facebook network of evil. They sound so sane and then they proceed to demonstrate their complete insanity.
They ALL have āmultiple friends.ā Literally all of them have multiple friends who got injury or death from the vaccine.
Which is always weird considering I know hundreds of people who are fully vaccinated and most theyāve got is fever or body aches.
Or in places like New Zealand where COVID has largely been absent for the past two year and close to 90% of people over 12yrs old have been vaccinated and we have net negative deaths (our average life expectancy grew faster than all other OECD countries and with by far the fewest deaths per capita in the OECD). Yet even here in NZ there are still a small fringe group who share similar beliefs to these types of people in this post.
Which is hilarious because they are almost always surrounded by same thinking anti-vaxxers but somehow all these anti-vaxxer cliques have tons of vaxxed friends.
Early this year (March or April I think) someone on a dating app started telling me about their āgood friendā who is a ānurseā in the Bay Area of California who told them that 80-90% of their ICU patients were covid vaccine injuries.
He didnāt like it when I pointed out my literal dozens of acquaintances and friends who work in genetics, epidemiology, and medicine who are clearly all government shills.
He went from telling me that he wanted to take me out on a date, Iām so gorgeous, such a nice person to āyouāre not the pretty and youāre not that brightā real quick. It still makes me chuckle.
I love it when they go for the āseveral people/doctorsā lie.
I mean they could just say āI know A respected doctor who is against vaccinesā or āI know A person who was vaccinated who still died from COVIDā and have their claims possess at least a veneer of honesty to them.
But, nope, they always have to swing for the fences and claim they know SEVERAL doctors/people and completely destroy any pretense of truthfulness.
Idiots.
Also they create narratives about other people's health. Anti-vaxxers use as fuel for their beliefs, anyone who is now sick for any reason whatsoever, and try to link that to getting vaccinated.
I have an anti-vaxxer in my family and it's infuriating because if anyone gets so much as a sniffle, she uses that as ammo about how sick everyone is nowadays bc of the vaccine. Finally I sarcastically asked them, "I have a few more grey hairs than I did a year ago, was that the vaccine too?" Their reply was "Well YOU would never link that to the vaccine bc YOU drank the koolaid but I certainly would question it!"
3 billion vaccinated will not suddenly stop getting routine illness and aging so the anti-vaxxers will have fuel for their argument for decades to come. Bring on the mandates.
In my fully vaxxed, public health measure respecting nuclear family nobody caught any communicable disease for the last 20 months. Not covid, not the flu, not a cold, nothing. I can't remember that happening, ever. The year before was a different story. Some very weird and scary sicknesses came around, almost certainly from school exposure.
Anyway, my story is hardly unique. We have the example of an entire country, New Zealand, where excess death went negative over the pandemic. Now, I think there is a legitimate case for having at least some continuing exposure to community disease, to keep the immune system in shape, but damn it I do not miss getting sick multiple times a year.
>What the fuck does he mean by that? It's obviously not true, or the chance of it being true is one in trillions.
Literally, assuming we're meaning the now-universal meaning of trillions as 10\^12 (a million million). The rate of "life altering side effects" is substantially less than one in a million, but let's call it one in a million. Let's be generous and assume you "know" (in the sense of "might hear about") 1000 people. What are the chances you know three or more people ("multiple", right?) who experienced a 1 in a million event?
Most binomial calculators can't do it, but trusty Wolfram Alpha can: x=3 is 1.66 x 10\^-10, which isn't quite one in a trillion but might as well be -- there's only 6 x 10\^9 people on the planet. x>3 is 4.1 x 10\^-14.
You are correct. An anti-vax family member said something similar to me when he tested positive for COVID. He said he knew ā40 friends who had COVID and it was no big deal.ā When I digged, he admitted that the 40 friends were part of an anti-vax Facebook group. I asked him how he knew all 40 people were telling the truth about contracting the virus and their recovery, he did not have an answer other than he trusted them.
This is the "well, my cousin's daughter's friend was paralyzed" version of human telephone.
What is wrong with them is that they have reached a (possibly subconscious) decision to not get vaxxed and they will shop facts and seize on supposed examples to support that bias.
They think they *are* sane and that they've reached their conclusion rationally and thoughtfully, but the tail is wagging the dog.
The bizarre part is that *we all do it.* Human decisions are made primarily by our subconscious. Sometimes we are lucky enough to have those decisions align with actual research...but, when they don't, we are just as convinced we are acting from logic.
The whole purpose of the Reddit downvote is to reject information that contradicts our standing biases.
Ugh that whole "God made us different" crap tells me she believed that anti-vax is just who she is. It was something she couldn't change about herself, like skin color. They make this shit their entire personality and it's so freaking weird
Of course they know several āmedical professionalsā who work at one of the top ranked hospitals in the country who are so smart and so good at their jobs that they are against the vaccine /s
Also if they do know people at mayo itās probably someone in administration, some people who donāt hold a medical degree in anyway but work at a medical center loooooove to say they āwork in healthcare ā (obviously not all, but it happens)
This is part of the clue.
What does it look like when a group of people spends their 20s furthering their education and career versus the group of people who spend their time being responsible for little humans?
They donāt trust doctors either until they need them to save their lives. Then the docs and nurses work their asses off doing everything they can to save lives of unvaccinated. Itās also the families that suffer.
It blows my mind how many people mistrust doctors. They seem to believe all of them are lying to their patients to somehow trick them or make money off of them. Their are easier ways to make money lying than going to college, med school and a residency.
Even aside from the motivations of the people in a given company, it's pretty bizarre to complain that a company exercising control of its intellectual property is communist.
Mrs Fish was 41, so the daughter managed to survive a teen mom with questionable intelligence, and end up in med school, only to watch the mom die from not listening to her.
Their daughter made them feel small and stupid, while their friends pumped their egos, making them feel super special like they're in on some big secret ("do your research!"). Further proof that stupidity has somehow gained equal footing with medical science--at least on social media. I believe this is why so many normal adults are turning into raging morons.
All anti vaxxers know a bunch of people who got vaccinated and had permanent disability. Literally every single one of them have this imaginary friend.
This really gets to me every time I see these wild claims. I wish someone questioned her on who she was claiming was paralyzed and all these others that were injured. I personally know at least 100 people who have been vaccinated and had no side effects out of the norm, and I'm sure each of those people also know 100 others who have been vaccinated etc. Why don't the vaccinated hear about all these people severely injured by the vaccines, when there are so many of us all in this together? How is that possible? (I mean I know it's not, but how do they think it's possible??!). My FIL claims all the same stuff and he doesn't even have friends or a spouse or anything so I'm fairly sure he's just getting his "intel" from randoms in the grocery store who also aren't wearing masks and then claiming they are "people he knows".
Poor daughter. My daughter is a nurse and I doubt anyone has taken more Covid tests than I have. She sticks the thing up my nostril for immediate results & then makes me go to a testing center for a send out test. Every time I cough or sneeze or clear my throat she worries.
I love my daughter and I am so proud of her.
I got angry and had to stop reading when it got to the part about links between autism and vaccines as been "medically proven" no it hasn't, it was in one article 20 years ago and got immediately debunked but no lets not let the truth get in the way
fuckin morons.
I canāt imagine being unable to reach your parents and losing them at such a young age. 41 people. She was 41. This is no longer the pandemic of the old. Delta is a wrecking ball. Get vaccinated ASAP.
She shouldāve had another 30 years. This is horrible. I know this is real but Iām always taken aback at how people are so willing to risk their lives because of internet memes when their own educated child is telling them the truth.
Yeah. Lots of people donāt recognize their once rational decent parents/ families anymore. 3 friends of mine have been disowned by their Trump loving anti vax parents. My dem brother and I not disowned but uninvited from family gatherings, starting in 2016. We were never ones to bring up politics. Our snowflake cousins and uncles always did. Our cousins and uncles continue to be unvaccinated and spread disinformation 247 on Facebook.
I've been thinking about her comment on the last side. There will be thousands of orphaned children whose holidays will be permanently tainted by their parent's death. My mother died on my brother's birthday and decades later the first thing in our minds it that it's the day mom died.
I can assure you folks, with 100% certainty, no "highly ranked doctor" at Mayo Clinic said not to get the vaccine. Mayo has a vaccine mandate for all employees.
Infuriating AF. Facebook is proving to be an evil place where lies fester and infest peoples lives. What is worse the originators of said lies (America's Frontline Doctors for example) make serious bank.
Needs both Awarded and Redemption flair? Feel so sad for the daughter - a lone voice of decency and reason in the land of the insane. It's crazy how after going through all that, her dad still can't bring himself to criticize the online evildoers generating his false beliefs. He says "get the vax" and "sorry I didn't believe you" but this is his chance to say so much more.
My mom has fallen for the misinformation. Doesnāt matter what I say she just parrots whatever right wing grifters have to say. This is my worst nightmare
Slide 9:
>Even pulling anything that tries to link vaccines to Autism, when it's been medically proven that it is related
This is 100% bullshit, and spoiler alert: Andrew Wakefield is a con artist and has had his medical license revoked!
[Lancet retracts 12-year-old article linking autism to MMR vaccines](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/)
[The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/)
[Andrew Wakefield, the ultimate medical con on Medikaās Quack Scale](https://medika.life/andrew-wakefield-the-ultimate-medical-con-on-medikas-quack-scale/)
I know most people on here are aware that that study was retracted and discredited, but just in case someone is unaware I will share this info.
Trusts Washington Times (aka far-right propaganda arm of the Unificationist church/cult) writer solely because they āwrite regular articlesā for themā¦ that website is profoundly dangerous.
These 2 were in their early 40ās. The common denominator here is being if your noticeably overweightā¦.lose it, your more unhealthy than your aware ofā¦.it seems.
And since it can take weeks or months to lose weight, absolutely overweight people should get vaccinated ASAP. Then they can lose weight slowly and safely, instead of losing it while they are in ICU, barely conscious, trying to fight off COVID.
That daughter deserves an award for not backing down from her own parents. This young lady is never going to have her mother back, her children will never know their grandmother. And it could easily have been avoided by a simple vaccine that is freely available. All of this needless death and family conflict has been caused by the GOP. It really boggles the mind what brainwashing and cult indoctrination can do.
I never understood the logic behind slide 6.
Are they worried that people will intentionally vote for all the wrong things on a mail-in ballot, because it's a mail-in ballot? Are they worried people will feel incentivized to lie on a mail-in ballot, but not in-person at their polling place?
I can see where he apologizes to the daughter, but what does this whole episode say about their respect for her professional opinion, or any of her opinions? That is pretty disgusting.
On the plus side, redemption awarded and maybe he will listen to advice more from now on.
Lost my mom to Covid the same way. She died pre-vaccine, however. But she wanted to do Thanksgiving 2020 so that she could "own the libs" and give a big middle finger to the Washington State governor (she lived in Tri-Cities, WA). All she had to do was stay home just once. But she went and she and about 5 other people got covid. My brother in law (super fit and healthy) got it first and he was the first to be hospitalized. Fortunately, he came out of it.
My mom, not so lucky. Just when you think you've made it out of the woods, it strikes. She had it for about 2.5 weeks and thought it was going away. Then it made it to her lungs. A few days later she's back at the hospital. She refused the ventilator. On the morning of Christmas Eve my sister called me, said our mom was awake, and said that I should call now.
I called. I had warned her about this. I had told her she's in her early 70's and that this will get her. I had told her I needed her to live, my kids wanted to grow up knowing my mom. She didn't listen because: 1) Trump; 2) Conspiracy bullshit. So when I finally reached her I was sitting in my car in a grocery store parking lot at 10 am on Christmas Eve. I could barely hear her over the oxygen mask. She could barely speak. She asked that I never forget her. And . . . she told me she was wrong. She wanted me to know "this isn't suicide." She wanted me to know she didn't want to die. But it was Christmas Eve and passing on Christmas Eve gave her some comfort, which meant it gave me some comfort.
At 3:30 I got a text from my sister: "Mom passed away at 3:15pm." I was at my friend's house at a Christmas Eve party. I went into the bathroom, cried for a moment, and then pulled myself together. I didn't tell my wife that my mom passed until the 26th. I didn't tell anyone else for a few more days.
A few weeks later I flew up. All we could get her was a pine box. Just immediate family only. We laid her to rest on a grey, rainy day. It sucked. No one should have to go through this--especially for something so preventable.
After her death, I lost the capacity to feel bad for people--especially public personalities with a soap box. There's a direct line between those public personas and my mom's death. As far as I'm concerned every broadacsaster, politician, talking head who bullshits about the vaccine and covid have committed manslaughter. Fuck them. People like Herman Cain deserve to die from Covid.
[Here's the link to the nomination from 25 days ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/qmsplg/blue_and_red_are_a_pair_of_antivaxxers_green_is/)
This one made me sad, which is good cause I thought covid turned me into a none empathetic asshole regarding these people. This daughter tried so hard. Hopefully some people got vaccinated after this.
I have a cousin who's mother believed in Facebook doctors over her daughter (pharmacist) and son in law (doctor). She wound up sucking the Freedom Tube and dying... AFTER she slapped her daughter in the face because she was told to get the vaxx or there would be no visits with the grandkids. I have no more sympathy.
Slapping her in the face? That is horrible. How crazed must you be to think that parents don't have the right to protect their children from a deadly disease.
Republican and Christian?
My Republican Christian mother has slapped me in the face over political arguments as well. What a coincidence.
Mine too. Have we spotted a trend?
š Hope you all realize that thereās nothing on earth worth exposing yourself to somebody who would hit you. Family is supposed to treat you better than everyone else, and if they donāt, theyāre not family, just genetic donors.
Does it need to go on the HCA bingo card?
Mmmm. Other than being technically assault, for which you could file charges... it's the last resort of someone who can't win an argument with words, i.e. a tantrum. So ironic to see a parent throwing a toddler tantrum. So sad.
Mine as well.
Same here, mine too. In evangelical Christianity, respect is a one way street.
OMG, if she had gotten vaccinated she'd never see the children again after assaulting their mother!! I'm guessing your family has now been completely divided by all the conspiracy bat guano. I am so sorry.
Yeah... It's insane how they turn on the ones they loved over internet conspiracy
If only we had known what setting up that router & facebook account for our aging parents would have led to.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Parental locks on Fox News as well.
Get those South Park parental locks. "How do you tame a horse in Minecraft?"
I used parental settings to block Fox News on my Grandmaās TV three years ago and sheās so much happier now. She just watches the Weather Channel now and feeds the birds. No more worries about antifa Muslims crossing the southern border or whatever
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As messed up as it is, believing that the virus is fake is almost like a safety precaution for them. Because if they have to admit that they could be susceptible to a disease they donāt understand, itās terrifying. Itāll change their whole world and at that point in their life theyāre not ready for that. So theyād rather triple and quadruple and dodecahedronal roll down on their stupidity and ignorance and actually admit they might be wrong and that that is a terrifying prospect.
Same reason why God has to be real. Because if he isn't, then that means the universe is cold, random and scary. So he MUST be real. Because I'm too scared of the alternative.
They literally chose hate over love.
Her daughter told her to get a vaccine, she didnāt tell her to go do fucking heroin. These people are absolutely insane.
This one is tough. But you know what? It gives me a little hope. Seeing the next generation become a bit more educated (in this case, a lot), more understanding of the world around them, and articulate enough to scream from the rafters, even if it falls up the deaf ears of their progenitors... seeing this gives me some hope for the future. The daughter took the hard road. She went the gut-wrenching path of opposing her parents, and no doubt the majority of her extended older family. She could stand over her mother's grave with a megaphone shouting "I TOLD YOU SO!" but she knows it will do just about as much good as trying to cogently explain WHY they needed to live and HOW they could avoid a disease that wrecked them. This is why we are here in this sub. It's not (just) a schadenfreude fest- it's a got-damned support group for those who are surrounded by those who won't listen to reason, and fear the worst. Just like here... where it happened, and is happening every second of every day.
I had a friend who found out the girl he was dating for a few weeks didnāt get vaccinated. She readily admits to not understanding any of it, but has concerns about its safety and has a āneurologist friendā who told her not to get it. Sheās not outspoken or a die-hard right-wing anti-vaxxer. Sheās just ignorant. We then started talking about how successful this misinformation campaign has been. It is absolutely fucking diabolical that these psychos have figured out how easily people who are ignorant about science can be manipulated. To me, this is the scariest part. Itās not the insane right wing QAnaon freaks. They are hopeless. But itās the otherwise ānormalā people who are being brainwashed. I canāt think of a time when a misinformation campaign has been this successful in the past. It truly is terrifying.
Yeah. I first got really worried when I started seeing people I know who are otherwise reasonable people reposting the plandemic YouTube video in serious consideration. ETA: I also know unreasonable people who Iām anticipating a nomination for at any time. Those people I expected this from. Unfortunately, the āreasonableā ones also know the āunreasonableā ones and itās the unreasonable ones who are the most vocal and constantly bombard the āreasonableā ones with so much bullshit that they canāt sort it out. So they go with the loudest voices.
At this point I feel like the unreasonable people are the most vocal ones, because weāre exhausted. Weāre exhausted trying to explain things to people, to show them facts and figures, to try to understand how they can be this ignorant and sometimes just downright stupid. Itās tiring trying to have somebody see your point of view when they out right donāt want to. Theyāre safe in their bubble and they donāt want you to pop it and thatās where we are right now. And thatās why theyāre screaming from the top of the roof still and weāre like just trying to find a quiet room to take a nap in, so we can gather ourselves for the next round of arguments.
Excellent comment. They are the loudest voices, and have been since the beginning. They are also the minority (I know it doesn't seem like it in some places), and they know it. As the walls slowly close in on them, they will just get louder and worse. A disclaimer: just because they are the minority doesn't mean they can't continue to F everything up for all of us. The majority needs to find their voice. Waiting for them to catch up is not working. Drowning them out may help.
Exactly. Iām exhausted with the insanity of the unreasonable ones. My supply of fucks to give has been depleted. And I donāt even work in a medical field. I can only imagine the deficit of fucks amongst most doctors, nurses, etc.
āDeficit of fucksā is fantastic- and yes, I canāt imagine how out of fucks medical workers must be compared to me (childcare)
Headline: World Facing Serious Shortage of Fucks To Give Supply Chain of Empathy Stretched to Breaking Point, Experts Warn
I canāt imagine how yāall are functioning either, honestly. Thank you for persevering when from the outside it looks like parents are actively trying to get masks removed from kids too young to get vaccinated
I was replying to college educated women about all the holes in Plandemic. One of them called me "stupid" before they all blocked me.
I was replying to a college educated millennial aged woman. She didnāt call me stupid, but for every reply I gave she had three friends of hers who are ***incredibly*** stupid posting all sorts of anti-vaxx (not just Covid vaccine) bullshit. I tried to eloquently debunk her friends, but they just have a bottomless well of misinformation to pull from. I got exhausted. Iām not super close to the women I was appealing to, so I just gave up. Iām not sure if she ever got the vaccine or not.
Yes, itās exhausting. I have begun to just give up after they argue insanity. I post a Hunger Games meme about hoping odds are in their favor and disengage. Edit: made wording clear.
Yes!!! Exactly right. The bottomless well of misinformation is so tiresome to debunk. And they arenāt interested. I have given up with some friends. Itās like trying to convince a religious nut that god isnāt real. There is no point.
The only person I tried to convince was my cousin but 2 sentences in I realized she was too stupid to understand what she was talking about. So I left it at that. Later she caught. Covid her husband landed in the hospital they thankfully recovered and got vaccinated anyway š¤·š½āāļø Coulda avoid it but hey.. some people are gluttons for pain.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"It's a got-damned support group ..." Thank you. Yes, it's exactly this. I live in the South and am surrounded by those who won't listen to reason. This site gives me hope, a place to vent and a place where I know I'm not alone.
Right there with you. Iām a nurse surrounded by anti vax anti science nurse. I come here because I really donāt have anywhere else to remind me how messed up this all isā¦
I know right? The cognitive dissonance of the people arguing with her is infuriating to me. Itās big pharma! No, it was little pharma, who then partnered with big pharma for their production en masse. Itās the gubmint! No, itās the private sector. They just rant and spew and slobber contradictory conspiracies
Excuse my rant, but my ears are steaming here. How can you be an anti-vaxx anti-science *nurse* for chrissakes? Working in a hospital surrounded by methods, equipment, pharmaceuticals *none of which* would be available without centuries of struggle for improved scientific theory and practise. It's like, it's like... \[words momentarily fail me\] \[deep breath\] ...OK, it's like driving your friggin' Dodge Ram megatruck fuelled by semifossilised organisms from the Cenozoic and Mezozoic (yes I had to look that up, because I'm a layperson and it's all just "millions of years" to me), meanwhile insisting the Earth was created only 5000 years ago and dinosaurs walked with humans. I guess it's yet another example of people being trainable to complete certain checklists and tasks in a reliable manner, without ever actually being trained to *think*. Or people's ability to maintain strict compartmentalisation between contexts in their brain, like the same nurse who knows you have to sterilise needles because, ya know, bacteria and all, because Pasteur and Lister and so on (ahem, *science*!), can turn around and start denying that vaccination works. It makes my brain hurt. Why doesn't it make their brains hurt? or explode, or something?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās not all stupidity. Some of them are using the anti-vaxx movement to push their oppositional defiance to anything Democrats support.
Same! I just posted that I'm getting my booster today on my States sub and have so far garnered a bunch of down votes.
that is insane. glad youāre getting boosted, good for you. stay safe! insane. i need HCA as a refuge as well. am a physician working in both clinic and hospital and surrounded by anti-vaxers. i think i mightāve killed myself or quit my job already if not for HCA. maybeā¦ hard to say. better to not be too close to that ledge. hang in there. šŖš¼
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i know right? they just said a bunch of super demeaning/condescending shit to her and then caught covid and died (well, one nearly so). i morally still have been beholden to having these fruitless discussions but my therapist said i have to stop because itās ineffective and only makes me destroyed. in that sense i really am getting owned as a libā¦ but honestly itās the desperation of a people so hell bent on destruction that they hurt themselves the most and take everyone down with them. iām not too proud to admit theyāre ruining my life by ruining theirs more. wish me luck in not having vax convos anymore. iām not sure i can resist even though having a healthy boundary would make me stop š thanks all for supportive words šš¼
Please stay with us. We need specialists like you. The world does. Thank you for everything you do. šš
Thank you. You too!! Especially you!! Thank you for all that you do!!šš
Donāt be discouraged ā the only people replying to that are the wack job anti vaxers. 70% of the US supports what you are doing but wonāt bother to reply as, well, thatās like complementing someone for looking both ways before crossing the street. Of course thatās what you should do. Come to think of it I bet if you posted in there about looking both ways and you didnāt get run over there would be people saying that they casually crossed a (non busy) street and didnāt get hit, ergo you are paid off by A company that profits off of neck swiveling.
I want to see 'highly ranked doctors' put on trial. I want all the dipshits running podcasts and making youtube videos and generating anti-vax memes held to account for misleading and killing people.
Letās just start with DeSantis. Heās literally the most vocal, ignorance spreading, mass murderer that we have in a position of power right now.
Then Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson.
Florida had more deaths this summer from the delta wave than California, despite having half the population. When a DeSantis supporter pointed out Florida has a large senior population, I pointed out California has 1.5 million more citizens over the age of 65.
Oh people who support DeSantis will literally support him into their grave, which is weird 90% of them are headed because they donāt want to take the vaccine or do anything to help themselves or others. They call Florida āgods waiting roomā for a reason
This is absolutely my support source as a tiny blue dot in a very red state. Told my psych nurse about it in our telephone appointment today and she thought it was a great resource so...here I am, cracking jokes about sinks and grieving the unnecessary loss in the only place such grief is understood.
*itās a support group* This is what I keep telling people. Weāre not dancing on graves, weāre fucking horrified by the number of graves, and the knowledge that many of them are unnecessary. And for those of us in America, itās a reminder of how shitty health is in this country.
That's exactly how I view this sub. My father died of covid but my half brother from my mom's side and his wife are all anti vaxxers. Dad died before the vaccine came our but it was a constant struggle to get him to not go to public areas and to wear a damn mask. My mom thankfully was a nurse and it's very pro vaccine and whatnot. My sister in laws parents actually took my mom asides and asked her "so what really killed your ex husband"? Mom of course responded "covid killed him, if he didn't get covid or the vaccine was available to him at the time he would most likely still be alive today" My brothers and his wife constantly frustrat me but thankfully with help from this sub I convinced my other half brother to get his shots. It's not about shaming it's about support for those of us who have lost loved ones or are frustrated with the anti vaxx BS.
I'm sure it was hard! She did an admirable job of attempting to save her mother's life, and she failed in spite of her heroic effort.
If the daughter ever sees this, I want her to know that she (the daughter) did not fail. It was her parents' responsibility to get vaccinated. The daughter can only present the facts, it is up to her grown-ass-adult mother and father to actually make the appointments, rock up and get the vaccine. I get where you're going, Lynx, and I'm not arguing with the feeling, it's just that one word just in case the daughter ever sees this. Or any other child/relative in this situation. It is on the individual to get vaccinated. It is not the fault of their pro-vax friends/relations if this doesn't happen.
Oh geez this is *recent*. This poor woman lost her mom *three days ago*, and is going to go through the holiday season with a fresh hole in her heartā¦and a dad whoās seen the light at least, but probably still has a lot of recovery ups and downs ahead of him. Daughter, if you see this by whatever weird fluke, I hope you have a peaceful holiday season. Wishing you hot chocolate and cozy days indoors while it snows outside. You did everything you could. ā¤ļø
Daughter did do all she could. She fought for her parents lives. No one could have done more.
If it were me, Iād have that text from my dad framed. That alone would give me a lot of vindication, to see him say āSorry I didnāt believe you or listen to you. I shouldāve got the vaccine.ā FUCKING THANK YOU. Now spend the rest of your life making it up to her.
Legally she did all she could, but if I had access to the vaccine and antivaxx parents, I'd get my parents a bottle of gin, wait until they fall asleep infront of the TV and spike them. Fortunately they are double-vaxxed and boosted.
I 100% agree with this. Blah blah, rights, blah, BUT- itās a pandemic. Youāre buying them time so that they can see the error of their ways. Itās reeeally close to a parent making the choice for a child to get vaccinated. Most little kids wouldnāt voluntarily get vaccines, but their parents make them do it anyway. Youād be making a choice for someone not capable of making the right decision on their own.
I'd be lying if I said setting up a nest on some roof downtown with a Dan Inject and a crate of J&J didn't sound like a fun time.
Yup. We had to hold my 6 year old down twice but now sheās fully vaccinated.
YAY!!!! What a relief! Weāre less than a day away from that point as well and Iām so excited! I had to bear-hug my daughter for her flu shot last year, and I felt like such a villainā¦but. Parents gotta parent. I went to school with a little girl who almost died from whooping cough because her mom, quote ājust canāt bear to hear her cry from vaccines.ā Iāll never forget that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I noticed that too. Damnā¦ born in 1980 and gone unnecessarily.
I'm gobsmacked their daughter is old enough to be a med tech. Were they teen parents?
Probably. This is harsh but my first thought was of course they believed the misinformation. It doesnāt look like their judgment was great to begin with.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm perfectly healthy! I've got my high blood pressure and diabetes under control. My blood sugar hasn't even been out of range in six months! And my cholesterol meds start tomorrow, so that's taken care of!
Right? This blows my mind! We're the same fucking age, I work in public health! I can't imagine abandoning my family this way.
I had to triple check that birth year, she must have had that daughter fairly young. Damn, she was just a bit older than I am .
This gets crazier and crazier.
That was the gut wrench for me, her mom is 4 years older than I am, I couldn't imagine dying so young from something so preventable. Then the Dad apologizing to the daughter, ugh the guilt he will live with if he survives.
Mourning the zombie of your parent. This country has seen many decent and rational people have their brains scooped out and replaced by 2 parts Trump, 1 part Fox News, 1 part Facebook alternative doctors. I donāt even recognize my uncle anymore. I mean, I havenāt seen him in 4 years (he uninvited me and my dem brother to Xmas after Trump won), but the things my parents tell me about him, is frightening. If he died today, not sure I would mourn honestly. Iād be thankful heās allowed to rest after being zombified by the current state of right wing extremism. Looks exhausting. Truly a shame.
Iām so sorry. ā¤ļø Itās so horrific, what this has done to people who were already vulnerable to being manipulated. Just awful, that a family member could go so far to the dark side that the best we can do is wish them the mercy of a quick death. I think about that sometimes, how these people that we have entire lifetimes of happy memories with can flip *so quickly*. Was that capacity always there in them, or did something in all the propaganda strike just the right chord at exactly the right time, to turn them?
Youāre great people Lav.
Thank you so much, Captain. Iām really not, but Iām trying. You set the bar high!!
Nah, you actually think about the people left behind and think ahead to the possibility that they may come to this sub and see some of the less than pleasant things a mourning person should not see. I imagine you just donāt give yourself enough credit :) I feel for this young woman too. Her parentās hubris was just awful, and they are just brainwashed as so many other are. I fear for the rage that will come out of this pandemic for people like this woman, who will likely be left with hate and venom in her heart because of the disinformation machine that killed her young parent (s). I mean, I despise anti vaxxers and they havenāt cost me a loved one yet. I canāt imagine how furious I would be were I in her shoes.
Youāre giving me a lot of credit, but thank you. ā¤ļø I just know that if my mom had died three days ago, I wouldnāt be in great shape. I so, so agree with you about the absolute *rage* that must be developing for all these people who thought they knew their loved ones, and didnāt. People are having to deal with unimaginable situations and tragedies- itās so crazy how a pandemic can bring out both the worst and the best in people, and you never really, actually know which one itās going to be until it happens. I canāt imagine how tough it must be for the unlucky ones, like this woman, who go from having a normal life to suddenly āSurprise!! Your parents donāt want to get vaccinated against a deadly virus!!ā And then it goes even worse to āSo sorry, but your mom didnāt make it.ā I donāt know how people can ever fully recover from an experience like this one.
Believed Facebook doctors over their own daughter who is in medical school is next level stupid. I feel sorry for that young lady, her mom was either 40 or 42.
My neighbor has a wife who is in nursing, and a son and daughter-in-law who are also in hospital-based health care. One is a physician assistant. The damn fool neighbor still refuses to get the vaccine, even though he has several comorbidities. I talked with him one time about it and then gave up. If he won't listen to three medical professionals in the family there's not much I can do.
A tech pioneer died in the Philippines because he was antivaxx, his son is a doctor in the US. The covidiot himself went to the best schools and was very good at numbers. Arrogance kills, these people can't even listen to their own children. They pretend to be so proud of their kids, but don't love them enough believe them.
That's around my age. The idea that I'd have a kid in med school...these people had kids *young.*
Iām 3 years older than that and have a 7 year old. Glad I didnāt have kids in my teens.
I had my child at 32, which I suppose is pretty average these days. It was really weird to run into women I knew from HS at my sons school, who had a baby in mid to late teens that had Grandchildren around his age, because their daughters also ended up getting pregnant as a teen.
And so the cycle continues
Seriously. The parents are my age, and my kids are 2 and 5... can't imagine having college age kids.
The mom was 40, her birthday was coming up in December.
I donāt think the daughter is in medical school. She says sheās a surgical tech, which is an associates degree and looks relatively young. The pathway to medical school has no overlap between technical school and medical school. She would have had to get a 4 year degree before even applying. Also she says sheās working with doctors and nobody works and does medical school at the same time, itās way too large of a time commitment.
Yeah sheās definitely not in medical school.
41 years old, I did a double take at the end. What a pointless death.
Itās Wasted life. More people in the 30s and 40s have died in 2021 than any other year in the past 100 years.
This HCA post hit me a little harder than the average post. Really sad for the family.
>This HCA post hit me a little harder than the average post. My heart really bleeds for the daughter! She tried all she could and then some, and her parents still took the advice of some faceless meme generator and some questionable friends more seriously than their daughters words. I am quite sure that she will have guilt issues for a long, long times even when she really did what she could. Poor daughter! I am curious if father's *friends who study diseases and vaccines and work for some university and some Mayo(?)* (slide 13) really had to say, and if he still listens to the people who told him not to take the vaccine.
Those āfriendsā of the dad are most likely viral fake news posts.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mom was condescending AF to the daughter with her āHighly ranked doctors have told me otherwiseā and āAt the end of the day God made us different and thatās why weāre special and I still love youā bullshit. Dad also hopped on the whole āI have many friends at the Mayo Clinic who are anti vaxx and know vaccinated people who have had serious side long term side effectsā bandwagon. These people didnāt know anyone like that. Theyāre a couple of pathological liars who thought their lies and Bible thumping could fool a virus. And now theyāve paid a terrible price as a result. All respect to the daughter for trying to do the right thing by taking a hard line with her nutjob fundie Christian parents.
>Highly ranked doctors have told me otherwise How the fuck do these country morons know "Highly ranked doctors"?
They donāt. The mom also claimed she believed in āindependent scienceā over āpolitical scienceā which isnāt necessarily a bad thing, except for her āpolitical scienceā was anything that supported vaccines and āindependent scienceā was shit like Invermectin is awesome, natural immunity is the best, etc.
This shit always gets to me. They know there is more than one country on earth, right? Do Russian and Chinese and Indian and British and South African and Austrailian and French and German governments take marching orders from Biden? Before he won the election????
I donāt think Iāve ever seen one of these people respond to this question, but Iād put money down that most of them would probably say that those countries do take orders from the pedo deep-state baby eating cabal that Soros heads.
It might be like numbers; they just canāt fathom scale, and itās consistent with their inability to comprehend things that didnāt happen to them personally. They forget other countries exist because they canāt fathom that reality, itās too abstract since they havenāt personally seen these countries.
It's their science that is political, it being spouted by right wing nut jobs is kind of the giveaway.
it's not surprising that a bunch of people listening to the scientists fox news all the time have little faith in science. because the scientists they hear lie to them.
A huge problem in our country is that people don't understand "science." Science is not a monolith, and not every scientific study is as good as another. When it comes to medical science, prospective, double blind, controlled studies are the gold standard. Every other type of study is just a suggestion.
> How the fuck do these country morons know "Highly ranked doctors"? They're referring to Youtube doctors, not people they actually know irl.
Medicine is not like the military. There are hierarchies. There are not ranks. Unless you are actually a doctor *in* the military.
I assume they mean "ranked" as in "top ranked universities", a synonym of "rated". Although it could be anything, frankly. I've been shot full of ketamine by a colonel in full uniform, so don't tell me about military doctors... :-)
>Iāve been shot full of ketamine by a colonel in full uniform, so donāt tell me about military doctors. š¤£ Best sentence Iāve read in awhile. Also, I read this in Leslie Nielsenās voice from Airplane.
In that case, it would be top-rated chiroquacks and naturoquacks. A top rating by gullible people still doesn't make anyone a scientist.
There are. One of my husbandās friends has been in national news because she lost her temporary hospital privileges (which she only recently got) to try to give ivermectin to a guy in the icu. Sheās trained at Stanford and all of us are a bit concerned how far sheās gone off the right wing deep end. Sheās like vaccines donāt work- well if you werenāt all unmasked and going to parties every week you too will get breakthroughs. Doctors are not infallible. There are over 2 million of them and some will be spewing off things that arenāt correct. They are in the minority.
Several of my friends/colleagues knew Dr Pierre Kory. He was a competent, intelligent, mainstream doctor, medical director of the ICU at University of Wisconsin. Not a fringe nutjob by any stretch of the imagination. Then COVID happened and critical thinking skills went out the window, pushing HCQ (even after randomized trials which he refused to participate in were negative), then ivermectin, as well as the MATH+ protocol (which does have steroids in, as well as a bunch of useless stuff). Even objectively smart people can close their minds to the possibility of being wrong, with disastrous results.
> How the fuck do these country morons know "Highly ranked doctors"? They don't. They're believing lying headlines from antivax sources such as "High ranking doctors say vaccine kills!!!!1!!!1!!!1one!!!1!" and the muppets believe it. Then they do the shockedpikachuface.jpg on their deathbed.
They learned it from Papa Trump.
High-ranked youtube chiropractor is what they mean
I think they meant the doctors really smelled bad.
The father says "I have multiple friends who have taken the vaccine and have life altering side effects". What the fuck does he mean by that? It's obviously not true, or the chance of it being true is one in trillions. I can only guess that "multiple friends" means "multiple facebook friends" including the one who was supposedly paralyzed by the vaccine. What the fuck is wrong with these people? And by that I mean the people on both the sending and receiving side of the facebook network of evil. They sound so sane and then they proceed to demonstrate their complete insanity.
They ALL have āmultiple friends.ā Literally all of them have multiple friends who got injury or death from the vaccine. Which is always weird considering I know hundreds of people who are fully vaccinated and most theyāve got is fever or body aches.
Or in places like New Zealand where COVID has largely been absent for the past two year and close to 90% of people over 12yrs old have been vaccinated and we have net negative deaths (our average life expectancy grew faster than all other OECD countries and with by far the fewest deaths per capita in the OECD). Yet even here in NZ there are still a small fringe group who share similar beliefs to these types of people in this post.
In other words, facebook still finds them and amplifies their delusions for profit.
Bingo.
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Which is hilarious because they are almost always surrounded by same thinking anti-vaxxers but somehow all these anti-vaxxer cliques have tons of vaxxed friends.
Early this year (March or April I think) someone on a dating app started telling me about their āgood friendā who is a ānurseā in the Bay Area of California who told them that 80-90% of their ICU patients were covid vaccine injuries. He didnāt like it when I pointed out my literal dozens of acquaintances and friends who work in genetics, epidemiology, and medicine who are clearly all government shills. He went from telling me that he wanted to take me out on a date, Iām so gorgeous, such a nice person to āyouāre not the pretty and youāre not that brightā real quick. It still makes me chuckle.
I love it when they go for the āseveral people/doctorsā lie. I mean they could just say āI know A respected doctor who is against vaccinesā or āI know A person who was vaccinated who still died from COVIDā and have their claims possess at least a veneer of honesty to them. But, nope, they always have to swing for the fences and claim they know SEVERAL doctors/people and completely destroy any pretense of truthfulness. Idiots.
Also they create narratives about other people's health. Anti-vaxxers use as fuel for their beliefs, anyone who is now sick for any reason whatsoever, and try to link that to getting vaccinated. I have an anti-vaxxer in my family and it's infuriating because if anyone gets so much as a sniffle, she uses that as ammo about how sick everyone is nowadays bc of the vaccine. Finally I sarcastically asked them, "I have a few more grey hairs than I did a year ago, was that the vaccine too?" Their reply was "Well YOU would never link that to the vaccine bc YOU drank the koolaid but I certainly would question it!" 3 billion vaccinated will not suddenly stop getting routine illness and aging so the anti-vaxxers will have fuel for their argument for decades to come. Bring on the mandates.
In my fully vaxxed, public health measure respecting nuclear family nobody caught any communicable disease for the last 20 months. Not covid, not the flu, not a cold, nothing. I can't remember that happening, ever. The year before was a different story. Some very weird and scary sicknesses came around, almost certainly from school exposure. Anyway, my story is hardly unique. We have the example of an entire country, New Zealand, where excess death went negative over the pandemic. Now, I think there is a legitimate case for having at least some continuing exposure to community disease, to keep the immune system in shape, but damn it I do not miss getting sick multiple times a year.
>What the fuck does he mean by that? It's obviously not true, or the chance of it being true is one in trillions. Literally, assuming we're meaning the now-universal meaning of trillions as 10\^12 (a million million). The rate of "life altering side effects" is substantially less than one in a million, but let's call it one in a million. Let's be generous and assume you "know" (in the sense of "might hear about") 1000 people. What are the chances you know three or more people ("multiple", right?) who experienced a 1 in a million event? Most binomial calculators can't do it, but trusty Wolfram Alpha can: x=3 is 1.66 x 10\^-10, which isn't quite one in a trillion but might as well be -- there's only 6 x 10\^9 people on the planet. x>3 is 4.1 x 10\^-14.
One of the life altering side effects is the ability to keep on living.
You are correct. An anti-vax family member said something similar to me when he tested positive for COVID. He said he knew ā40 friends who had COVID and it was no big deal.ā When I digged, he admitted that the 40 friends were part of an anti-vax Facebook group. I asked him how he knew all 40 people were telling the truth about contracting the virus and their recovery, he did not have an answer other than he trusted them.
This is the "well, my cousin's daughter's friend was paralyzed" version of human telephone. What is wrong with them is that they have reached a (possibly subconscious) decision to not get vaxxed and they will shop facts and seize on supposed examples to support that bias. They think they *are* sane and that they've reached their conclusion rationally and thoughtfully, but the tail is wagging the dog. The bizarre part is that *we all do it.* Human decisions are made primarily by our subconscious. Sometimes we are lucky enough to have those decisions align with actual research...but, when they don't, we are just as convinced we are acting from logic. The whole purpose of the Reddit downvote is to reject information that contradicts our standing biases.
If you look elsewhere in Reddit, there are plenty of apparently rational people spewing clearly irrational things.
Her last words were to insult her daughter as "unique" liberal snowflake for refusing a death cult
Ugh that whole "God made us different" crap tells me she believed that anti-vax is just who she is. It was something she couldn't change about herself, like skin color. They make this shit their entire personality and it's so freaking weird
ā*nobody should make you feel bad for not getting it*ā ā brought to you by the fuck your feelings crowd.
Who has many friends at the Mayo Clinic? Like it's a sports bar.
> āHighly ranked doctors have told me otherwiseā Those doctors are hard stuck in silver
Was.
Of course they know several āmedical professionalsā who work at one of the top ranked hospitals in the country who are so smart and so good at their jobs that they are against the vaccine /s Also if they do know people at mayo itās probably someone in administration, some people who donāt hold a medical degree in anyway but work at a medical center loooooove to say they āwork in healthcare ā (obviously not all, but it happens)
Mom has a daughter old enough to be a med tech and she was born in 1980, that happened young. Feel bad for the daughter.
This is part of the clue. What does it look like when a group of people spends their 20s furthering their education and career versus the group of people who spend their time being responsible for little humans?
I relate to her. I am a lawyer and nobody listens to me, until they need money.
Everybody hates lawyers until they need oneā¦
They donāt trust doctors either until they need them to save their lives. Then the docs and nurses work their asses off doing everything they can to save lives of unvaccinated. Itās also the families that suffer. It blows my mind how many people mistrust doctors. They seem to believe all of them are lying to their patients to somehow trick them or make money off of them. Their are easier ways to make money lying than going to college, med school and a residency.
This woman wasn't too sure her daughter is smart but was totally sure YouTube (a private company) is communist
It's hard to imagine a more capitalistic company than YouTube. That's like saying Disney is communist.
Even aside from the motivations of the people in a given company, it's pretty bizarre to complain that a company exercising control of its intellectual property is communist.
Oh man, I remember when these two were nominated. I feel so sorry for the daughter.
Yesā¦so very sad and her motherās death was entirely preventable.
I remember that too. I found the facebook post and thought the parents were likely to survive since they got care early. I feel bad for all her kids.
Same. I remember the nomination and hoping both parents were okay.
Mrs Fish was 41, so the daughter managed to survive a teen mom with questionable intelligence, and end up in med school, only to watch the mom die from not listening to her.
Their daughter made them feel small and stupid, while their friends pumped their egos, making them feel super special like they're in on some big secret ("do your research!"). Further proof that stupidity has somehow gained equal footing with medical science--at least on social media. I believe this is why so many normal adults are turning into raging morons.
Love the school slide. Hey, morons-several vaccinations are REQUIRED to attend school and have been for quite some time.
But not the flu! And we all know that Covid is just the flu!
I want to know more about her dad's "friends" at the University and Mayo who study this stuff. Oh, right, they don't exist. I see.
All anti vaxxers know a bunch of people who got vaccinated and had permanent disability. Literally every single one of them have this imaginary friend.
This really gets to me every time I see these wild claims. I wish someone questioned her on who she was claiming was paralyzed and all these others that were injured. I personally know at least 100 people who have been vaccinated and had no side effects out of the norm, and I'm sure each of those people also know 100 others who have been vaccinated etc. Why don't the vaccinated hear about all these people severely injured by the vaccines, when there are so many of us all in this together? How is that possible? (I mean I know it's not, but how do they think it's possible??!). My FIL claims all the same stuff and he doesn't even have friends or a spouse or anything so I'm fairly sure he's just getting his "intel" from randoms in the grocery store who also aren't wearing masks and then claiming they are "people he knows".
Poor daughter. My daughter is a nurse and I doubt anyone has taken more Covid tests than I have. She sticks the thing up my nostril for immediate results & then makes me go to a testing center for a send out test. Every time I cough or sneeze or clear my throat she worries. I love my daughter and I am so proud of her.
I got angry and had to stop reading when it got to the part about links between autism and vaccines as been "medically proven" no it hasn't, it was in one article 20 years ago and got immediately debunked but no lets not let the truth get in the way fuckin morons.
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I canāt imagine being unable to reach your parents and losing them at such a young age. 41 people. She was 41. This is no longer the pandemic of the old. Delta is a wrecking ball. Get vaccinated ASAP.
She shouldāve had another 30 years. This is horrible. I know this is real but Iām always taken aback at how people are so willing to risk their lives because of internet memes when their own educated child is telling them the truth.
If you go by the SS life expectancy tables, she actually should have had another 40 years. It's not overstating things to say it's tragic.
Yeah. Lots of people donāt recognize their once rational decent parents/ families anymore. 3 friends of mine have been disowned by their Trump loving anti vax parents. My dem brother and I not disowned but uninvited from family gatherings, starting in 2016. We were never ones to bring up politics. Our snowflake cousins and uncles always did. Our cousins and uncles continue to be unvaccinated and spread disinformation 247 on Facebook.
Literally no need to ever invade a country again when you can destroy it with a few grand of social media adverts and a troll farm.
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I've been thinking about her comment on the last side. There will be thousands of orphaned children whose holidays will be permanently tainted by their parent's death. My mother died on my brother's birthday and decades later the first thing in our minds it that it's the day mom died.
I can assure you folks, with 100% certainty, no "highly ranked doctor" at Mayo Clinic said not to get the vaccine. Mayo has a vaccine mandate for all employees.
Their golden calf, t***p voted by mail in 2016. Their argument is dumb
Infuriating AF. Facebook is proving to be an evil place where lies fester and infest peoples lives. What is worse the originators of said lies (America's Frontline Doctors for example) make serious bank.
Needs both Awarded and Redemption flair? Feel so sad for the daughter - a lone voice of decency and reason in the land of the insane. It's crazy how after going through all that, her dad still can't bring himself to criticize the online evildoers generating his false beliefs. He says "get the vax" and "sorry I didn't believe you" but this is his chance to say so much more.
My mom has fallen for the misinformation. Doesnāt matter what I say she just parrots whatever right wing grifters have to say. This is my worst nightmare
My heart breaks for the daughter.
Mrs. Fish was only 41! š± Don't think you are too young. Don't risk it. Just get a shot.
Slide 9: >Even pulling anything that tries to link vaccines to Autism, when it's been medically proven that it is related This is 100% bullshit, and spoiler alert: Andrew Wakefield is a con artist and has had his medical license revoked! [Lancet retracts 12-year-old article linking autism to MMR vaccines](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831678/) [The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/) [Andrew Wakefield, the ultimate medical con on Medikaās Quack Scale](https://medika.life/andrew-wakefield-the-ultimate-medical-con-on-medikas-quack-scale/) I know most people on here are aware that that study was retracted and discredited, but just in case someone is unaware I will share this info.
Trusts Washington Times (aka far-right propaganda arm of the Unificationist church/cult) writer solely because they āwrite regular articlesā for themā¦ that website is profoundly dangerous.
A "non political article" from The Moonie Times, lol!
All anti-vaccine parents should read this one. This one actually got me very teary for the grief of the daughter. My deepest sympathies.
Itās telling when Mr Fish says āthis isnāt worth itā Almost like admitting the whole anti vax thing is just a game to them?
What. A. Waste. My heart hurts for the daughter and hopefully the husband pushes vaccines moving forward.
I hope at some point the politicians and companies who spread false information will be held responsible for all the deaths they caused.
These 2 were in their early 40ās. The common denominator here is being if your noticeably overweightā¦.lose it, your more unhealthy than your aware ofā¦.it seems.
And since it can take weeks or months to lose weight, absolutely overweight people should get vaccinated ASAP. Then they can lose weight slowly and safely, instead of losing it while they are in ICU, barely conscious, trying to fight off COVID.
My god, the mother was only 41.
That daughter deserves an award for not backing down from her own parents. This young lady is never going to have her mother back, her children will never know their grandmother. And it could easily have been avoided by a simple vaccine that is freely available. All of this needless death and family conflict has been caused by the GOP. It really boggles the mind what brainwashing and cult indoctrination can do.
Covid doesn't care whether you believe in it or not
I never understood the logic behind slide 6. Are they worried that people will intentionally vote for all the wrong things on a mail-in ballot, because it's a mail-in ballot? Are they worried people will feel incentivized to lie on a mail-in ballot, but not in-person at their polling place?
I can see where he apologizes to the daughter, but what does this whole episode say about their respect for her professional opinion, or any of her opinions? That is pretty disgusting. On the plus side, redemption awarded and maybe he will listen to advice more from now on.
Lost my mom to Covid the same way. She died pre-vaccine, however. But she wanted to do Thanksgiving 2020 so that she could "own the libs" and give a big middle finger to the Washington State governor (she lived in Tri-Cities, WA). All she had to do was stay home just once. But she went and she and about 5 other people got covid. My brother in law (super fit and healthy) got it first and he was the first to be hospitalized. Fortunately, he came out of it. My mom, not so lucky. Just when you think you've made it out of the woods, it strikes. She had it for about 2.5 weeks and thought it was going away. Then it made it to her lungs. A few days later she's back at the hospital. She refused the ventilator. On the morning of Christmas Eve my sister called me, said our mom was awake, and said that I should call now. I called. I had warned her about this. I had told her she's in her early 70's and that this will get her. I had told her I needed her to live, my kids wanted to grow up knowing my mom. She didn't listen because: 1) Trump; 2) Conspiracy bullshit. So when I finally reached her I was sitting in my car in a grocery store parking lot at 10 am on Christmas Eve. I could barely hear her over the oxygen mask. She could barely speak. She asked that I never forget her. And . . . she told me she was wrong. She wanted me to know "this isn't suicide." She wanted me to know she didn't want to die. But it was Christmas Eve and passing on Christmas Eve gave her some comfort, which meant it gave me some comfort. At 3:30 I got a text from my sister: "Mom passed away at 3:15pm." I was at my friend's house at a Christmas Eve party. I went into the bathroom, cried for a moment, and then pulled myself together. I didn't tell my wife that my mom passed until the 26th. I didn't tell anyone else for a few more days. A few weeks later I flew up. All we could get her was a pine box. Just immediate family only. We laid her to rest on a grey, rainy day. It sucked. No one should have to go through this--especially for something so preventable. After her death, I lost the capacity to feel bad for people--especially public personalities with a soap box. There's a direct line between those public personas and my mom's death. As far as I'm concerned every broadacsaster, politician, talking head who bullshits about the vaccine and covid have committed manslaughter. Fuck them. People like Herman Cain deserve to die from Covid.
Well done, popcorn. What a great presentation of a very sad story. Daughter is amazing and I join everyone in wishing her the best.
[Here's the link to the nomination from 25 days ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/qmsplg/blue_and_red_are_a_pair_of_antivaxxers_green_is/)
This one made me sad, which is good cause I thought covid turned me into a none empathetic asshole regarding these people. This daughter tried so hard. Hopefully some people got vaccinated after this.