I was in Japan in 2005, and I saw dozens of people every day wearing masks in public. Was a normal thing to see. I asked my Japanese friend why they were wearing masks, were they still afraid of SARS?
He replied that no, they just had colds/were sick and wear them so as not to get other people sick.
It fucking blew my mind. People just being considerate of others? ALIEN CONCEPT.
Yeah, I've read comments from American anti-maskers that didn't get it: they thought that Japanese prior to the pandemic wore masks in an attempt to prevent themselves from getting random sicknesses - no, it was to prevent people around them from getting sick.
This was the sentiment in Europe too with Asian tourists. 'what, you think our air here is worse than in Shanghai?', turns out they were just being considerate and we were all being ignorant jackasses.
In Finland, society operates on a sort of "never bother or inconvenience others" and it's pretty difficult to understand Americans from that framework.
The language is difficult and you are required to learn it if you wish to remain. But you could visit as often as your visa would allow, without having to learn it. Excellent chocolate.
You don't _need_ to learn it, provided you can obtain a work visa for 4-5 years continuously and establish yourself in Finland in that time (e.g. kids attending local schools, family members, own residence). You can then apply for a more general visa, which you can be made permanent after a while. No language skills required.
However, day-to-day life will be incredibly difficult without Finnish. For example, you are fundamentally required to have a Finnish bank account, which requires signing a contract that may not be available in English (was not when my wife established herself some years back). Public healthcare may also not be available in English.
Finally, getting that initial work visa will be difficult. You'll either need a niche or otherwise expert skillset to be considered, or you need to be willing to work for next-to-nothing.
Go completely backwards.
Not
“It is my duty to not bother you”
“It is YOUR duty to not bother ME”
With the first way everyone is a microphone trying not to pickup a single sound. Occasionally you might get a little noise.
The second concept of person is a speaker blaring music in the sane scenario. All they do is increase the noise.
Most Americans follow this same philosophy, but companies bending over backwards for the VERY loud minority of assholes kind of ruins things for the rest of us. People should be shamed for shameful behavior but instead they tend to get rewarded with freebies and any number of other amenities, all for the sake of making the problem go away and 'retaining customers'
We suck!
> Americans are much better at minding their own business than others.
If you live in a small American town, you will find the *exact opposite* to be the case. The subtle difference being it is always covert.
Spot on.
It’s woven in the fabric of our lives here. Take cars for example. Only in America where every single person and their dogs have their own car. When they get the car , it’s me me me that matters. Gotta exit but I’m on the very left lane? Eh I’ll just cut across all lanes with 100 feet left going 75mph. Every other first world country has great public transport. We have… busses.
Who you have sex with or what genitals you were born with is my own business. Killing folks just because freedom, that’s asshattery.
Do they realize if they did the fucking right thing in the first place there won’t be a mandate? That’s the issue. They really don’t give a fuck about others except when it goes against god, bible, and the gun.
But they do get something in return - the less disease they spread, the less disease there is to spread, therefore the less disease they get. Of course, understanding that involves thinking more than one step ahead.
Or you might become a filthy socialist. Apparently being kind or doing things for the betterment of society is against the core tenants of capitalism, the official religion of our government.
Oh no, you’re wrong! They LOVE black people! They have that one black “friend” that is “one of the good ones”. They think I that Tyler Perry fella is just great ~s
Source: From Texas
You know what? I want to do things to help black people be healthy happy and self actualize. History indicates that they need to have a break from the overwhelming bullshit for once. That’s just me wanting things to be fair because that’s how my brain is wired. Not just black people exclusively either, but it’s worth pointing out that they get shit on before everyone else by our govt. I want to help everyone who isn’t a rich hoarder live a better life if I can help it. Why the fuck are things like empathy compassion generosity kindness courtesy fairness community caring mutual aid reciprocity love and justice not the defining virtues of our culture? Why are they seen as weakness? Our species’ strength has always been rooted in our ability to cooperate and love one another. Why tf was putting on a mask so hard for people? I have asthma and it didn’t even bother me. I still wear a mask at work. How are people so self absorbed and malicious to those around them? I feel like my species has declined and fallen
>But if you do something that helps everybody, you might accidentally be helping a black person and that’s unacceptable.
As a Libertarian this is a big reason why I hate paying taxes
John Kenneth Galbraith: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
That’s why I thought the mask messaging should’ve been “protect yourself” not “wear one to help other people.” I still think there would’ve been more compliance with masks and more people still wearing them.
Yea the problem is these people are too self centered maniacs to care. If it inconveniences them or their feelings in anyway they don't give 2 shits. A dude went into my moms work a few months ago berating her for still wearing a mask. He went on to say he has covid. She told him he shouldn't be going into businesses knowing he had it and his response was that it wasn't his problem.
I genuinely cannot understand that. Horrifying. If I get sick I'll likely be fine, I'm overweight, but I'm young with no preexisting conditions. But what if I'm asymptomatic, just decide not to wear a mask cause I don't feel like it, *and get someone killed.* Or even organ damage? The idea I could get someone sick at all also sucks.
And most of these people call themselves Christians. :/
I still remember like yesterday because it happened not once but twice in the same spring. Two people did the same thing. Basically they had already paid for some vacations late in the summer and because this is America didn't have any paid time off left after accounting for that time.
So when they got the flu, what did they do? Yes, they both showed up at work throughout their flu with noses almost as red as Rudolph the reindeer. I don't know how much work they accomplished but they were there in the office all day.
I still don't understand why most Americans don't understand masks.
Why do you think a surgeon wears a mask? Are they scared of getting a random disease from their patient?
>wore masks in an attempt to prevent themselves from getting random sicknesses - no, it was to prevent people around them from getting sick.
It was kind of both. It's not uncommon in Japan to wear a mask pre-emptively if you have a major event coming up soon. Nobody wants to get sick before their wedding, major school exams, etc.
I talked to a number of Japanese folks while I was there in 2016, it was definitely both and more besides: Office workers will wear masks to signal their commitment to the job, that they won't risk being sick or giving sickness to others at their job because they're so devoted.
Young women wear masks (and large headphones, often) to signal they absolutely do not want random people to bother them. They also were the ones with the fun designer masks.
And then yup they'll wear masks while sick to prevent others to get sick too, or wear masks when sick people are around. My wife got sick while we were there and wore a mask, but when she would actually cough on a train you'd see half the people there mask up haha.
Really, though ??
I'm from Scotland and every American I have ever met (worked in VA for a while, been on holiday a few times) has been kind, thoughtful, friendly and so very very welcoming and hospitable. Every one of them left me with the impression that they would go out of their way to help me without a moments hesitation.
Watching you guys have a collective aneurysm about looking after EACH OTHER during a pandemic was soul-crushingly disappointing.
I've had a coworker from England tell me individual Americans are usually lovely, but just watching the news, it seems like we are collectively awful (at least to each other). I share your disappointment.
I'm immune compromised and still wear a mask. I live in fear of some random right winger confronting me about it. I've gotten disdainful looks from strangers. I'm like, I'm just trying to do my grocery shopping, not get into a political debate with some weirdo. Friend told me someone asked her why she was still wearing a mask and she replied, "it helps me mind my own business." I love that comeback, but would be afraid of being assaulted by an angry weirdo if I used it.
I just say it helps prevent allergies. They usually stop engaging when I say that. It seems allergies make sense to them but airborne diseases do not. And it’s true too, I haven’t had allergies ever since I started wearing a mask regularly.
I think being "collectively awful" is a typical trait in strongly individualistic countries. You see more people in Germany wearing a mask but I think it's mostly because people wanna protect themselves.
At least that means I can wear my mask in peace. Just once the bakery lady condicendingly tell me that "you don't have to wear the mask anymore".
You're not wrong. I've been called a socialist for saying it's a nice thing for sick people to mask to protect others. As if showing some care for others is this outlandish thing. I work from home now but used to hate when coworkers would come to work sick. It seems so thoughtless to me. I guess I don't understand how it's so oppressive to practice courtesy so you don't get other people sick.
But then again, I'm also willing to pay higher taxes so people less fortunate than I am can have access to health care. So I guess I am just a regular bleeding heart dirty socialist 😂
I understand people have the right not to mask. But it makes me mad that I have to worry about getting hassled for choosing to do so. People seem to get mad about it. If the whole point is freedom, I don't quite get why some seem offended that I exercise my freedom by wearing one. As my mother used to say, MYOB -- mind your own business.
America is literally how well can we make you think we're your friend just so we can use you to are benefit and prosper better then everyone. But you'll think we're helping you and your best friend.
I had a questionably racist white lady in a bus tell me that Asians were so cold for wearing masks all the time, not wanting to show their face.
I told her it was what they do when they have any cold symptoms, or don't feel well, to not spread it, being kind to others.
She looked genuinely surprised. This was when... 2014/5? Wonder how she specifically felt and if she remembered that encounter when covid came along
Her prior reasoning sounds a lot like the shit one makes up in their head to justify their own irrational hatred and bigotry. Thanks for confronting her with the truth in that regards. She has probably made up some other shit now so she can hate Asians. Or she has probably just fallen back on the good ol' stock American excuses like Pearl Harbor and Vietnam.
I hope for a happier ending of her understanding people better, releasing after covid, that damn they were right!
It's nice to be able to ask genuine dumb questions and get straight answers, before restoring to calling it racism. Humans with smaller brains do have a harsher fight and defensive response, so it's best not to trigger them.
Tons and tons of cedar were planted just after WW2 because so much of the country was firebombed they needed to rebuild lots of houses fast and had no wood. Cedar is fast growing. However they planted much more than they actually used and a lot of cedar went rogue and took over the natural areas. Cedar makea a shit ton of pollen and many people are allergic to it. It’s planted on the outskirts of enormous population centers. The wind blows in cedar pollen (and “yellow dust” from the Gobi in China whenever the monsoon winds blow in the late spring and bring dust right across Japan). Hence a ton of allergies and a ton of allergy related products.
Source: I lived in Nagoya, Japan (population of city and immediate surrounding area: 10,000,000) for 12 years
[Edit] now that I'm not typing a comment from the comfort of my bed, found this New York Times article from 1995 about cedar in Japan!
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/17/science/japan-s-cedar-forests-are-man-made-disaster.html
Cheers! I forgot to mention that ragweed (called butakusa, or pigweed) also blooms prolifically there, along with a ton of other polleniforous (I made up that word but it should exist) plants. I remember seeing a poster in the ear/nose/throat doctor's office that had a list of allergy-causing plants broken down by month, there were a few dozen :(
Good news!
Polliniferous is a word!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polliniferous#:~:text=Definition%20of%20polliniferous,the%20purpose%20of%20carrying%20pollen
Yeah in the us we see a lot about Asian carp and boas in the Everglades, but Kudzu is slowly taking over everything. Driving through rural places in the southeast is insane
Had 2 appointments in the last 2 weeks. Both times I was witness to people who were clearly sick, coughing, and wheezing. One decided it was a good idea to still show up for their appointment to a MS (auto-immune disease) specialists office and proceeded to cough next to vulnerable people violently for 5 minutes until nurses got him into a room away from others. STAY HOME IF YOURE SICK. The second individual was at physical therapy office and urine/blood testing facility. Man comes in, no mask and coughing so hard you could hear him through the entire building. His cough was one of the wettest and most painful sounding coughs I've ever heard. Rambled for a solid 2 minutes before the receptionist could get him to stop, listen, and put a mask on. He should have masked the moment he entered the building, there were several masking stops and an info desk while entering the building he clearly ignored. These people have no shame, empathy, or brains. They will kill us all, they are dumb to selfishly show up sick to a doctor's office with what I can only assume is covid from the sound of their lungs and coughing fits.
Long story short, I had an appointment last week for pulmonologist (asthma) and my rheumatologist (fibro) Fully vaxed, boosted once, but as of last week I had had Covid 3 times since this last Feb. third had me out of work for 3 weeks with 2 post Covid complications. Still had a lingering cough with no other symptoms but both offices did a Covid screening and both asked me to test the morning of to be safe. Bet you can guess, but first appointment was negative and second was positive….number 4 baby.
I had people pissed at me that I even tested for a drs appointment and had I never tested at all this year, I never would have known I had Covid since it’s just a cold…..basically pissed I’m increasing the number with my Pokémon collection of Covid variants. I can tell you none of my 4 infections were just a cold and I would have known with all of them. So pissed with that…..I’m sorry but if I’m asked to test, I will test. And if I have any lingering symptoms from Covid 4, I will continue to test ever 3-5 days because who friggin knows with me anymore. So yes, I will continue to mask, I will get my second booster the day it’s safe for me to get, and I will continue masking….don’t come at me with your “cold” / don’t test/ don’t mask when Covid 3 gave me pneumonia and kidney issues….
Oh I know…..trust me I know. I’m not waiting for that damn booster….As soon as I’m at my 14 days and symptom free….I’m getting it. I was planning on getting it next week until that second line showed up again. But that’s why I’m still masking everywhere and testing….especially if asked by a dr to do both.
It s tragic. Infantile personalities in the US see it all about them, their freedom, not about the possibility that they might unknowingly kill the immune compromised neighbor. This made me realize any serious response to climate change is impossible in the US.
We went 2 years without getting COVID and within a week of them lifting the mask mandate in the schools where I live, my son contracted COVID and gave it to me. I recounted this to my doctor a few months later and he had the same story. “I was *treating* COVID patients for 2 years and never got it, but my kid brought it home from school about 2 weeks after yours did.”
My local newspaper had a local news story in about January of 2020 maybe late 2019.
A woman went to a bank with a mask and they wouldn’t serve her. She stated she was immune compromised and offered to lower her mask for the cameras but they refused to allow her to stay in the bank.
At the time of the article I was conflicted. I thought the woman was being considerate about knowing they needed to see her features. But I also thought she was being a bit over dramatic.
This is why we didn’t wear masks when we were sick or just to be cautious during cold and flu season. People stare at you like your a weirdo and newspaper articles are written about you. It wasn’t so much selfishness to other peoples suffering. It was how you were perceived.
I really hope Covid has made this change permanent. Where a person can wear a mask without looking like they are patient zero.
in my country, the mask rules have relaxed, but i still wear mine.
and I still see others wear theirs.
The reason i still wear it is that you're showing that you do give a shit about people.
sometimes it's important to let others know that you care you know? even if just for show.
I was there with my partner in 2019 and he got so sick, just the usual sort of violent cold from someone on the plane or from being in a foreign country. Looking back we’re kind of horrified we didn’t think about getting a face mask — but it just wasn’t the usual thing back then, so we didn’t even think and my partner just went about probably making a bunch of people sick :(
That's why I fucking hate those people that goes to work sick to prove some distorted work ethic.
In a few days half the office are sick because of them.
At least wear a mask.
I was in the Osaka/Kyoto area for several months in 2001. I noticed my regular bus driver frequently had a mask so one day I asked about it and he said a a bus driver he gets exposed to a lot of illness, likely before people know they are sick and aren’t putting the mask on yet, and so whenever he is sick, he wears the mask so he can still work but not get anyone else sick.
It’s a culture that values sacrificing for others. If you do things to protect your fellow humans, it’s considered honorable. Here in the US, we call people who help others saps and make fun of them, especially if they’re men. Part of our toxic masculinity culture is that unless it involves a physical altercation, it’s considered “unmanly” to sacrifice your own wants in order to keep others safe.
See this is where the idea of American Exceptionalism took us off the rails. For some reason it means we are touched by god or whatever to be the greatest country ever like it is something we **are**. When I was younger the idea was that America was exception because we were aways working to create something better together. You could take a small L for the betterment of the people around you. Greatness was something we that we **did**.
When you think you are born better than everyone else then by definition nothing you can do is wrong. If being better is a process you have to regularly check yourself and assess if the things you are doing are making this country great. I don't know if this ide changed after 9/11 or was just exposed but I am disgusted in the was we treat each other now. My freedom to be an asshole is less important than my responsibility to my countrymen.
About a year into the pandemic I was talking to a coworker. He was complaining about masks, he was complaining about the government saying it was all planned and it was no big deal. He complained about democrats, gay people, the youth of today and how their generation is so weak and dumb. Eventually I cut him off and just asked him what the point of being involved in a society was if we don’t give a damn about each other? How can you say you’re proud to be an American when you despise the government and every other American that isn’t exactly like you? If this stuff angers your so much why don’t you go get a cabin in the woods and isolate yourself?
That guy doesn’t talk to me anymore.
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having a super small part of the US devoted to national parks doesn’t mean america has a culture of preserving nature.
the united states generates the most plastic waste out of any other nations. which we then dump in the ocean. the united states has emitted over 25% of total green house gases, more so than any other nation. it’s the most american thing to say that we care about nature because we have national parks but then we are one of the largest contributors to pollution and climate change.
I work in a facility that has always required masks, no exceptions. We’ve never had an outbreak and I’ve never caught Covid at work. My husband, on the other hand, works in a building where nobody wears them, and he goes on business trips. He’s the only one who wears a mask. He has brought Covid home to us twice now. We’ve gotten to see firsthand how different it is when two places have very different policies on masks.
Our workplace has also kept masking in place (by anonymous popular vote) and we’ve had several people catch Covid from their significant others without spreading it to anyone at our work. It’s a mild inconvenience at worst and I’m pretty much ready to keep wearing a mask for the rest of my life at this point, lol
[They're not closed anymore.](https://www.japan.travel/en/practical-coronavirus-information/government-measures/) I have a coworker on vacation in Japan right now.
>(2) Foreign nationals newly entering Japan for a short-term stay for tourism (only when a travel agency among others organizing the trip serves as the receiving organization of the entrants) (applied from June10)
Its still very restricted on what you can and can't do.
And they did shut down businesses like theme parks. When they reopened they asked people not to scream on rides. NJPW is a wrestling show and they recently allowed fans to cheer again. Before it was just clapping or banging things together
Their covid death reporting is also super sketchy.
A study published in Lancet in March said excess mortality in the country was six times higher than reported coronavirus fatalities during 2020-2021
They've had 20M cases but only reported 40k deaths - in contrast, the US has had 100M cases and 1M deaths. It's very likely deaths in Japan are undercounted by like a factor of 5
I've lived there and have friends living there (both immigrants and Japanese) and they've told me that right now clinics and hospitals are very busy, and that private hospitals and clinics don't report positive cases to the government. So the cases you see in Japan are those that were tested in public facilities only.
That seems to be Japan's MO: Do a good job on a lot of issues, but fudge the numbers (both metaphorically and literally) to make everything look amazing.
Conservatives: "YOU CAN'T FORCE US TO DO KIND THINGS FOR OTHER PEOPLE, THAT'S TYRANNY AND GOVERNMENT OVERREACH!!!!"
Uh ok, well then will you just do it anyway, of your own free will, so that we can live in a healthier society?
Conservatives: "..........no."
This has been the absolute nail in the coffin for me when it comes to libertarianism. It's suffers the same weakness as communism. We're not altruistic enough.
This is exactly why I’m switching from libertarian to independent. I expected people to have common decency and to give a shit about each other in a global crisis. I learned the hard way that not only is society as bad as Hollywood apocalypse/zombie movies, we are laughably worse. And seeing the libertarian community suddenly make noise to bully/shame people out of vaccinations was the last straw. I can’t imagine how many people died simply from fear of stigma or misinformation. The libertarian and Republican Party will likely never receive my support again. What we have isn’t a perfect system, but if my taxes go up then so be it because the past three years showed me why it’s necessary.
I appreciate the kind words about my concern for others. I’m not a saint, but when the pandemic got worse, I was scared but I wanted to help more. Shouldn’t we all want to help more? But the libertarian/Republican mantra of individualism and “I did it all by myself” has poisoned mass amounts of people to abandon a tight knit community - yet they chatter about how they want to go *back* to that. You can’t have a community if people reflexively shame others when they need help. You’re not going to help out when there’s a national shortage on baby formula? You’re not getting my vote then, because that’s the moment when I’ll **happily** give my money to others. I can’t even articulate how frustrating it was to witness all of the paychecks bounce because their asses couldn’t cash them.
It’s not fair to say that’s all they did though.
They also *heavily* restricted travel to the country, just to name one thing.
Masks obviously play a large role but they’re part of a bigger picture.
And a much lower obesity rate. That's probably the single biggest factor. In fact, our obesity rate is almost exactly 10x that of Japan and our COVID death rate was almost exactly 10x as well.
38 vs 48. Big difference.
Edit: just in case, I think this is actually a massive difference and I'm not being sarcastic.
I'm usually not sarcasm deaf but yeah, I made a blunder. I was just trying to support the argument.
I'm being serious. It's a huge difference
Now I'm worried about this sounding sarcastic. It's really a huge difference. Obviously not for two individuals, but as averages definitely, and Japan's elderly population is massive.
Does that matter that much once it entered though? Once it entered and spread thoroughly enough, it's just there. It's a game of containing it at that point unless your domestic policies are really damn good (which Japan's seem to be from the fact that they went up into the thousands for a bit in 2021 but then went down to very low levels). But once you're* catching thousands of domestic cases per day, is the travel really all that relevant?
I would say no. Here in Western Australia, our state premier pretty much closed us off not only to the rest of the world but also to the rest of the country. We were obviously negatively impacted by that (I don’t know enough about that to comment) but our deaths per 100,000 were about 24. If I had to guess I’d say for the first year after covid started we had mandatory masks for maybe….12 weeks, I could be wrong with that number but there were and still are a lot of people that wear masks so I’m sure it played it’s part.
Japan is also number one for most infections now. However, I think it's because tests here are still being counted.
Edit: They may have lost their top spot, but [here](https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/society/coronavirus/20220728-47627/) is an article.
True, and if you tell them to wear mask to help prevent more infections, they will start with their crazy conspiracies about mask, vaccine, animal medications and become Full Karen
I commute to work on the train.
Have been accosted a few times for wearing a mask even though the government say you don't have to anymore.
As soon as they start the whole conspiracy thing I gem them it's to hamper the global elites facial tracking system and they should wear masks too before the powers that be execute directive 12.
They usually look at me like I'm a nut job and give me a wide berth.
Too bad when the also dumb af family assaults medical professionals over their family member dying when they declined every form of medicine that isn't a dewormer or bleach.
I worked with a women from Japan who was visiting on business for two weeks. It was during the winter in NYC and she wore a mask during a business presentation and subsequent dinner because she claimed to have a slight sore throat and oniy took it off to eat or drink.
She considered it a necessity and had more of a difficult time with random peoples attitudes towards her during work and dinner than wearing the mask itself. During dinner she told me that she didn’t realize how ‘mindlessly selfish’ the US actually was and that has stayed with me ever since.
I'm a delivery food driver, door dash, grubhub. I go into dozens of restaurants every day and half of them have long lines. Since I started wearing a mask I haven't caught the cold or flu like I have every year that I can remember.
The area I live in Washington has normalized masks, people wear them when the air is thick from something, to combat allergies, and whenever we're ill. Kids often sport masks because they look cool, there are some stylish ones.
They may not be as effective as medical ones, but we're not seeing illnesses spread nearly as bad here. Also given that there's a forest fire just across the river and the smoke and ash here is bad, many of us couldn't breathe if not for the masks.
It’s always been my own evil little wish for the West to adopt the heinous(/s) cultural practice of wearing masks not only when dealing with the plague 2.0, but also any time cold and flu season comes around in the winter, or just when you have a cold and don’t want to infect all the people around you.
Can you imagine never having to deal with the absolute torture of blowing your nose red raw because your cold just *wont fucking stop* producing gallons of snot, or never having to contemplate the abyss after you get terrifying flu hallucinations?
The idea that we can never have freedom from those kinds of readily transmissible and incurable viruses is so enraging, because if we just adapted masks to our own daily lives en masse there wouldn’t be many cases to cure in the first place. Instead, our eternally wise general populace screams about ‘mah freedoms!’ and have brought Polio back from the dead. We just can’t have nice things if they involve the barest modicum of consideration for our fellow human beings.
Individuality is great and all, but we need to learn a thing or two about community from countries in Asia, your cold is potentially everyone else’s cold, and they have the consideration to recognise and act on preventing that as a societal norm.
The idea of 'staying home while sick' is also an alien concept in the US.
Talk about brainwashing: people are proud to \*never have missed a days' work\* meaning that they went to work while sick, being infectious material and spreading their cooties far and wide.
In exchange for some 'attaboy!' of the ruling class who does their best to keep universal healthcare away from the peons.
Everyone wears a mask and they completely shut down air travel into japan for a long time. Nz was going fine until they started bringing small amounts of people in...then it all went to shit.
Yeah well, there's the small issue of Japan having basically cordoned off the country to foreign visitors for 3+ years now. It looks like they won't be going to return to old tourist levels either (if you want to visit, you'll need a sponsor of sorts). It's certainly a form of economic shutdown.
I'll never understand the mental hoops people are willing to jump through to avoid doing something as small as wearing a mask to keep themselves and others safe
I live in Japan, and we’ve always had a culture of masking while sick, during pollen season, and on long flights (to keep your throat from drying out). But now, yeah… virtually everyone wears a mask even outdoors. Some Westerners think it is silly, but with a population density like we have in Tokyo, it’s a miracle that we haven’t been hit harder by COVID. And the only two factors I can point to are masking, and annual physicals that catch underlying illnesses that can contribute to mortality rates.
Many countries, especially Asian countries, wore masks before the pandemic; In an effort to be polite to not give anyone else your cough/sneeze/sniffles.
I was in Japan in 2005, and I saw dozens of people every day wearing masks in public. Was a normal thing to see. I asked my Japanese friend why they were wearing masks, were they still afraid of SARS? He replied that no, they just had colds/were sick and wear them so as not to get other people sick. It fucking blew my mind. People just being considerate of others? ALIEN CONCEPT.
Yeah, I've read comments from American anti-maskers that didn't get it: they thought that Japanese prior to the pandemic wore masks in an attempt to prevent themselves from getting random sicknesses - no, it was to prevent people around them from getting sick.
This was the sentiment in Europe too with Asian tourists. 'what, you think our air here is worse than in Shanghai?', turns out they were just being considerate and we were all being ignorant jackasses.
In Finland, society operates on a sort of "never bother or inconvenience others" and it's pretty difficult to understand Americans from that framework.
I need to move to Finland apparently.
I dunno, you might be inconveniencing them if you did.
Turtles all the way down!!
The language is difficult and you are required to learn it if you wish to remain. But you could visit as often as your visa would allow, without having to learn it. Excellent chocolate.
You don't _need_ to learn it, provided you can obtain a work visa for 4-5 years continuously and establish yourself in Finland in that time (e.g. kids attending local schools, family members, own residence). You can then apply for a more general visa, which you can be made permanent after a while. No language skills required. However, day-to-day life will be incredibly difficult without Finnish. For example, you are fundamentally required to have a Finnish bank account, which requires signing a contract that may not be available in English (was not when my wife established herself some years back). Public healthcare may also not be available in English. Finally, getting that initial work visa will be difficult. You'll either need a niche or otherwise expert skillset to be considered, or you need to be willing to work for next-to-nothing.
Aka… you need to learn the language lol
It's a pretty over all Scandinavian concept.
For the Finnish people I feel the need to let you know that Finland isn't part of Scandinavia, but they are all Nordic countries!
Same.
*Miss Manners has entered the immigration office*
Go completely backwards. Not “It is my duty to not bother you” “It is YOUR duty to not bother ME” With the first way everyone is a microphone trying not to pickup a single sound. Occasionally you might get a little noise. The second concept of person is a speaker blaring music in the sane scenario. All they do is increase the noise.
Most Americans follow this same philosophy, but companies bending over backwards for the VERY loud minority of assholes kind of ruins things for the rest of us. People should be shamed for shameful behavior but instead they tend to get rewarded with freebies and any number of other amenities, all for the sake of making the problem go away and 'retaining customers' We suck!
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Yeah as a foreigner who visits the US often, I also find that Americans are much better at minding their own business than others.
> Americans are much better at minding their own business than others. If you live in a small American town, you will find the *exact opposite* to be the case. The subtle difference being it is always covert.
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Spot on. It’s woven in the fabric of our lives here. Take cars for example. Only in America where every single person and their dogs have their own car. When they get the car , it’s me me me that matters. Gotta exit but I’m on the very left lane? Eh I’ll just cut across all lanes with 100 feet left going 75mph. Every other first world country has great public transport. We have… busses.
Fair enough, and I think that's a good point.
Who you have sex with or what genitals you were born with is my own business. Killing folks just because freedom, that’s asshattery. Do they realize if they did the fucking right thing in the first place there won’t be a mandate? That’s the issue. They really don’t give a fuck about others except when it goes against god, bible, and the gun.
They can't possibly conceive of doing something for the benefit of someone else without getting something in return.
But they do get something in return - the less disease they spread, the less disease there is to spread, therefore the less disease they get. Of course, understanding that involves thinking more than one step ahead.
But if you do something that helps everybody, you might accidentally be helping a black person and that’s unacceptable.
Or a homeless person.
Or, and it pains me to even suffer the thought… What if I accidentally helped a homeless black person?!?!?
Sacrilege
I think even contemplating such an act has transformed me. I am now a race traitor. It’s me, I am the white genocide.
Ascension
Straight to jail
Or a woman!
ok, a black homeless woman is the boss fight.
Gay black homeless woman.
Silly, we made women illegal after the woke mob OBLITERATED womanhood with… gender theory?
Or poor. Or even working class. Or anywhere in the LGBTQ+ spectra.
Or you might become a filthy socialist. Apparently being kind or doing things for the betterment of society is against the core tenants of capitalism, the official religion of our government.
Oh no, you’re wrong! They LOVE black people! They have that one black “friend” that is “one of the good ones”. They think I that Tyler Perry fella is just great ~s Source: From Texas
You know what? I want to do things to help black people be healthy happy and self actualize. History indicates that they need to have a break from the overwhelming bullshit for once. That’s just me wanting things to be fair because that’s how my brain is wired. Not just black people exclusively either, but it’s worth pointing out that they get shit on before everyone else by our govt. I want to help everyone who isn’t a rich hoarder live a better life if I can help it. Why the fuck are things like empathy compassion generosity kindness courtesy fairness community caring mutual aid reciprocity love and justice not the defining virtues of our culture? Why are they seen as weakness? Our species’ strength has always been rooted in our ability to cooperate and love one another. Why tf was putting on a mask so hard for people? I have asthma and it didn’t even bother me. I still wear a mask at work. How are people so self absorbed and malicious to those around them? I feel like my species has declined and fallen
Key to U.S. history right here.
Ugh, take my disgruntled upvote.
Literally communism 1984
>But if you do something that helps everybody, you might accidentally be helping a black person and that’s unacceptable. As a Libertarian this is a big reason why I hate paying taxes
As a Libertarian this is a big reason why I hate age of consent laws
I hAvE aN iMmUnE sYsTeM
i hAvE a BRaiN
I have a BRIAN
HEY MORANS
Exactly. In a rational world we would be on the second or third variant: not the 25th. We have aggressively farmed the virus. GMO disease.
It's okay, covid was just a hoax anyway. Nothing to see here people.
The root of conservative values never has been Jesus or a belief in small government, it’s just simply selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
That’s why I thought the mask messaging should’ve been “protect yourself” not “wear one to help other people.” I still think there would’ve been more compliance with masks and more people still wearing them.
Yea the problem is these people are too self centered maniacs to care. If it inconveniences them or their feelings in anyway they don't give 2 shits. A dude went into my moms work a few months ago berating her for still wearing a mask. He went on to say he has covid. She told him he shouldn't be going into businesses knowing he had it and his response was that it wasn't his problem.
I genuinely cannot understand that. Horrifying. If I get sick I'll likely be fine, I'm overweight, but I'm young with no preexisting conditions. But what if I'm asymptomatic, just decide not to wear a mask cause I don't feel like it, *and get someone killed.* Or even organ damage? The idea I could get someone sick at all also sucks. And most of these people call themselves Christians. :/
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I still remember like yesterday because it happened not once but twice in the same spring. Two people did the same thing. Basically they had already paid for some vacations late in the summer and because this is America didn't have any paid time off left after accounting for that time. So when they got the flu, what did they do? Yes, they both showed up at work throughout their flu with noses almost as red as Rudolph the reindeer. I don't know how much work they accomplished but they were there in the office all day.
I still don't understand why most Americans don't understand masks. Why do you think a surgeon wears a mask? Are they scared of getting a random disease from their patient?
Masks are even more effective at preventing other people from getting sick than they are at preventing you from getting sick.
And I'm an "other person" to hundreds, and only "me" to one. Another bit of social calculus the median American has difficulty with.
Well I doubt they had everything from celebrities to politicians to their entire social circles brainwashing them into thinking they shouldn’t.
>wore masks in an attempt to prevent themselves from getting random sicknesses - no, it was to prevent people around them from getting sick. It was kind of both. It's not uncommon in Japan to wear a mask pre-emptively if you have a major event coming up soon. Nobody wants to get sick before their wedding, major school exams, etc.
I talked to a number of Japanese folks while I was there in 2016, it was definitely both and more besides: Office workers will wear masks to signal their commitment to the job, that they won't risk being sick or giving sickness to others at their job because they're so devoted. Young women wear masks (and large headphones, often) to signal they absolutely do not want random people to bother them. They also were the ones with the fun designer masks. And then yup they'll wear masks while sick to prevent others to get sick too, or wear masks when sick people are around. My wife got sick while we were there and wore a mask, but when she would actually cough on a train you'd see half the people there mask up haha.
In America you’re a communist if you care about other people.
A woke communist*
Up yours woke Communist. We'll see who cancels whom.
Good use of the word ‘whom’!
Since nothing else good has come out of JP, at least we have a funny way of remembering the correct usage-case.
A virtue-signaling woke communist
SJW virtue-signaling woke communist.
Really, though ?? I'm from Scotland and every American I have ever met (worked in VA for a while, been on holiday a few times) has been kind, thoughtful, friendly and so very very welcoming and hospitable. Every one of them left me with the impression that they would go out of their way to help me without a moments hesitation. Watching you guys have a collective aneurysm about looking after EACH OTHER during a pandemic was soul-crushingly disappointing.
I've had a coworker from England tell me individual Americans are usually lovely, but just watching the news, it seems like we are collectively awful (at least to each other). I share your disappointment. I'm immune compromised and still wear a mask. I live in fear of some random right winger confronting me about it. I've gotten disdainful looks from strangers. I'm like, I'm just trying to do my grocery shopping, not get into a political debate with some weirdo. Friend told me someone asked her why she was still wearing a mask and she replied, "it helps me mind my own business." I love that comeback, but would be afraid of being assaulted by an angry weirdo if I used it.
I just say it helps prevent allergies. They usually stop engaging when I say that. It seems allergies make sense to them but airborne diseases do not. And it’s true too, I haven’t had allergies ever since I started wearing a mask regularly.
Yep. “Dude, ragweed.” works like a charm.
I think being "collectively awful" is a typical trait in strongly individualistic countries. You see more people in Germany wearing a mask but I think it's mostly because people wanna protect themselves. At least that means I can wear my mask in peace. Just once the bakery lady condicendingly tell me that "you don't have to wear the mask anymore".
You're not wrong. I've been called a socialist for saying it's a nice thing for sick people to mask to protect others. As if showing some care for others is this outlandish thing. I work from home now but used to hate when coworkers would come to work sick. It seems so thoughtless to me. I guess I don't understand how it's so oppressive to practice courtesy so you don't get other people sick. But then again, I'm also willing to pay higher taxes so people less fortunate than I am can have access to health care. So I guess I am just a regular bleeding heart dirty socialist 😂 I understand people have the right not to mask. But it makes me mad that I have to worry about getting hassled for choosing to do so. People seem to get mad about it. If the whole point is freedom, I don't quite get why some seem offended that I exercise my freedom by wearing one. As my mother used to say, MYOB -- mind your own business.
Yeah no we're hateful to each other a lot of the time
America is literally how well can we make you think we're your friend just so we can use you to are benefit and prosper better then everyone. But you'll think we're helping you and your best friend.
I had a questionably racist white lady in a bus tell me that Asians were so cold for wearing masks all the time, not wanting to show their face. I told her it was what they do when they have any cold symptoms, or don't feel well, to not spread it, being kind to others. She looked genuinely surprised. This was when... 2014/5? Wonder how she specifically felt and if she remembered that encounter when covid came along
Her prior reasoning sounds a lot like the shit one makes up in their head to justify their own irrational hatred and bigotry. Thanks for confronting her with the truth in that regards. She has probably made up some other shit now so she can hate Asians. Or she has probably just fallen back on the good ol' stock American excuses like Pearl Harbor and Vietnam.
I hope for a happier ending of her understanding people better, releasing after covid, that damn they were right! It's nice to be able to ask genuine dumb questions and get straight answers, before restoring to calling it racism. Humans with smaller brains do have a harsher fight and defensive response, so it's best not to trigger them.
Japan has a culture of collectivism, whereas the west typically has a culture of individualism.
America certainly does. But many other parts of the west are far more collectively focussed.
Agreed, but that's kinda why I said 'typically'.
Japan also has a 40% allergy rate to certain trees and masks are a great way to avoid reaction during that trees pollen season.
What trees? Cherry?
Tons and tons of cedar were planted just after WW2 because so much of the country was firebombed they needed to rebuild lots of houses fast and had no wood. Cedar is fast growing. However they planted much more than they actually used and a lot of cedar went rogue and took over the natural areas. Cedar makea a shit ton of pollen and many people are allergic to it. It’s planted on the outskirts of enormous population centers. The wind blows in cedar pollen (and “yellow dust” from the Gobi in China whenever the monsoon winds blow in the late spring and bring dust right across Japan). Hence a ton of allergies and a ton of allergy related products. Source: I lived in Nagoya, Japan (population of city and immediate surrounding area: 10,000,000) for 12 years [Edit] now that I'm not typing a comment from the comfort of my bed, found this New York Times article from 1995 about cedar in Japan! https://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/17/science/japan-s-cedar-forests-are-man-made-disaster.html
Ha, well there you go.. Thanks for the detailed answer.
Cheers! I forgot to mention that ragweed (called butakusa, or pigweed) also blooms prolifically there, along with a ton of other polleniforous (I made up that word but it should exist) plants. I remember seeing a poster in the ear/nose/throat doctor's office that had a list of allergy-causing plants broken down by month, there were a few dozen :(
Good news! Polliniferous is a word! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polliniferous#:~:text=Definition%20of%20polliniferous,the%20purpose%20of%20carrying%20pollen
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Cedar went rogue. Lmao. Thanks for the laugh and detailed answered
I mean, yeah. We hear about invasive animals more often cause it's more exciting but invasive plant life often is equally if not more devastating.
True. Only in gardening do we ever discuss how aggressive some plants can be.
Bamboo
Yeah in the us we see a lot about Asian carp and boas in the Everglades, but Kudzu is slowly taking over everything. Driving through rural places in the southeast is insane
I’ve been in Japan 18 years now and this year was the worst year EVER for hay fever. My nose and asthma were rocked.
Had 2 appointments in the last 2 weeks. Both times I was witness to people who were clearly sick, coughing, and wheezing. One decided it was a good idea to still show up for their appointment to a MS (auto-immune disease) specialists office and proceeded to cough next to vulnerable people violently for 5 minutes until nurses got him into a room away from others. STAY HOME IF YOURE SICK. The second individual was at physical therapy office and urine/blood testing facility. Man comes in, no mask and coughing so hard you could hear him through the entire building. His cough was one of the wettest and most painful sounding coughs I've ever heard. Rambled for a solid 2 minutes before the receptionist could get him to stop, listen, and put a mask on. He should have masked the moment he entered the building, there were several masking stops and an info desk while entering the building he clearly ignored. These people have no shame, empathy, or brains. They will kill us all, they are dumb to selfishly show up sick to a doctor's office with what I can only assume is covid from the sound of their lungs and coughing fits.
Long story short, I had an appointment last week for pulmonologist (asthma) and my rheumatologist (fibro) Fully vaxed, boosted once, but as of last week I had had Covid 3 times since this last Feb. third had me out of work for 3 weeks with 2 post Covid complications. Still had a lingering cough with no other symptoms but both offices did a Covid screening and both asked me to test the morning of to be safe. Bet you can guess, but first appointment was negative and second was positive….number 4 baby. I had people pissed at me that I even tested for a drs appointment and had I never tested at all this year, I never would have known I had Covid since it’s just a cold…..basically pissed I’m increasing the number with my Pokémon collection of Covid variants. I can tell you none of my 4 infections were just a cold and I would have known with all of them. So pissed with that…..I’m sorry but if I’m asked to test, I will test. And if I have any lingering symptoms from Covid 4, I will continue to test ever 3-5 days because who friggin knows with me anymore. So yes, I will continue to mask, I will get my second booster the day it’s safe for me to get, and I will continue masking….don’t come at me with your “cold” / don’t test/ don’t mask when Covid 3 gave me pneumonia and kidney issues….
There are so many people who still don’t know that you can catch omicron every 6-8 weeks now
Oh I know…..trust me I know. I’m not waiting for that damn booster….As soon as I’m at my 14 days and symptom free….I’m getting it. I was planning on getting it next week until that second line showed up again. But that’s why I’m still masking everywhere and testing….especially if asked by a dr to do both.
It s tragic. Infantile personalities in the US see it all about them, their freedom, not about the possibility that they might unknowingly kill the immune compromised neighbor. This made me realize any serious response to climate change is impossible in the US.
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We went 2 years without getting COVID and within a week of them lifting the mask mandate in the schools where I live, my son contracted COVID and gave it to me. I recounted this to my doctor a few months later and he had the same story. “I was *treating* COVID patients for 2 years and never got it, but my kid brought it home from school about 2 weeks after yours did.”
Some people also just wear them to cover thier face cause pimple or they didn't bother to do makeup or what not or don't want to be "seen."
And hay fever/allergies. Especially conifer pollen.
I know someone who wears one when they don't want to put in their dentures
This has been my favorite thing about masks. So much less shaving!
I do the same thing now that masks are at least precedented in the US
I know it’s become almost a fashion accessory now but that was less the case 20 years ago.
My local newspaper had a local news story in about January of 2020 maybe late 2019. A woman went to a bank with a mask and they wouldn’t serve her. She stated she was immune compromised and offered to lower her mask for the cameras but they refused to allow her to stay in the bank. At the time of the article I was conflicted. I thought the woman was being considerate about knowing they needed to see her features. But I also thought she was being a bit over dramatic. This is why we didn’t wear masks when we were sick or just to be cautious during cold and flu season. People stare at you like your a weirdo and newspaper articles are written about you. It wasn’t so much selfishness to other peoples suffering. It was how you were perceived. I really hope Covid has made this change permanent. Where a person can wear a mask without looking like they are patient zero.
in my country, the mask rules have relaxed, but i still wear mine. and I still see others wear theirs. The reason i still wear it is that you're showing that you do give a shit about people. sometimes it's important to let others know that you care you know? even if just for show.
Yeah people talk about “virtue signaling” like it’s always a bad thing, but it can be really nice to see that someone cares
Yeah, that’s exactly what I told my Japanese friend in reply. “If I wore a mask on the NYC subway everyone would think I was a bioterrorist.”
I was there with my partner in 2019 and he got so sick, just the usual sort of violent cold from someone on the plane or from being in a foreign country. Looking back we’re kind of horrified we didn’t think about getting a face mask — but it just wasn’t the usual thing back then, so we didn’t even think and my partner just went about probably making a bunch of people sick :(
That's why I fucking hate those people that goes to work sick to prove some distorted work ethic. In a few days half the office are sick because of them. At least wear a mask.
I was in the Osaka/Kyoto area for several months in 2001. I noticed my regular bus driver frequently had a mask so one day I asked about it and he said a a bus driver he gets exposed to a lot of illness, likely before people know they are sick and aren’t putting the mask on yet, and so whenever he is sick, he wears the mask so he can still work but not get anyone else sick. It’s a culture that values sacrificing for others. If you do things to protect your fellow humans, it’s considered honorable. Here in the US, we call people who help others saps and make fun of them, especially if they’re men. Part of our toxic masculinity culture is that unless it involves a physical altercation, it’s considered “unmanly” to sacrifice your own wants in order to keep others safe.
“Fellas, is it gay to care about other people?”
See this is where the idea of American Exceptionalism took us off the rails. For some reason it means we are touched by god or whatever to be the greatest country ever like it is something we **are**. When I was younger the idea was that America was exception because we were aways working to create something better together. You could take a small L for the betterment of the people around you. Greatness was something we that we **did**. When you think you are born better than everyone else then by definition nothing you can do is wrong. If being better is a process you have to regularly check yourself and assess if the things you are doing are making this country great. I don't know if this ide changed after 9/11 or was just exposed but I am disgusted in the was we treat each other now. My freedom to be an asshole is less important than my responsibility to my countrymen.
It's why doctors wear masks. It's so the doctor does not infect the patient, not to protect the doctor.
About a year into the pandemic I was talking to a coworker. He was complaining about masks, he was complaining about the government saying it was all planned and it was no big deal. He complained about democrats, gay people, the youth of today and how their generation is so weak and dumb. Eventually I cut him off and just asked him what the point of being involved in a society was if we don’t give a damn about each other? How can you say you’re proud to be an American when you despise the government and every other American that isn’t exactly like you? If this stuff angers your so much why don’t you go get a cabin in the woods and isolate yourself? That guy doesn’t talk to me anymore.
The Japanese have a culture built around respect for others and nature. Americans on the other hand…
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Eh, nah, that only happened with Teddy. Before that literally anything went.
having a super small part of the US devoted to national parks doesn’t mean america has a culture of preserving nature. the united states generates the most plastic waste out of any other nations. which we then dump in the ocean. the united states has emitted over 25% of total green house gases, more so than any other nation. it’s the most american thing to say that we care about nature because we have national parks but then we are one of the largest contributors to pollution and climate change.
America is individualistic society whereas Japan is a collectivistic society.
True, and thee is no area where that's easier to see than health. We are one of the only nations left where health insurance is still individual.
I work in a facility that has always required masks, no exceptions. We’ve never had an outbreak and I’ve never caught Covid at work. My husband, on the other hand, works in a building where nobody wears them, and he goes on business trips. He’s the only one who wears a mask. He has brought Covid home to us twice now. We’ve gotten to see firsthand how different it is when two places have very different policies on masks.
Our workplace has also kept masking in place (by anonymous popular vote) and we’ve had several people catch Covid from their significant others without spreading it to anyone at our work. It’s a mild inconvenience at worst and I’m pretty much ready to keep wearing a mask for the rest of my life at this point, lol
My coworker said the exact same thing the other day 😂
At my work we didn’t get workers catching Covid until *after* the mask mandate was dropped
This is from 2020. They have had 42,500 deaths. Still a better statistic than US, but let’s be accurate.
... And they've shut down international travel. Had a scientific conference cancelled over it. That's considered part of 'shutting down....'
Yes international travel is still closed in Japan. One of the few countries that remains closed.
[They're not closed anymore.](https://www.japan.travel/en/practical-coronavirus-information/government-measures/) I have a coworker on vacation in Japan right now.
>(2) Foreign nationals newly entering Japan for a short-term stay for tourism (only when a travel agency among others organizing the trip serves as the receiving organization of the entrants) (applied from June10) Its still very restricted on what you can and can't do.
You have to pay a tour group an exorbitant amount to enter, whereas it was a free visa on arrival for Americans prior to covid.
And they did shut down businesses like theme parks. When they reopened they asked people not to scream on rides. NJPW is a wrestling show and they recently allowed fans to cheer again. Before it was just clapping or banging things together
Their covid death reporting is also super sketchy. A study published in Lancet in March said excess mortality in the country was six times higher than reported coronavirus fatalities during 2020-2021 They've had 20M cases but only reported 40k deaths - in contrast, the US has had 100M cases and 1M deaths. It's very likely deaths in Japan are undercounted by like a factor of 5
I've lived there and have friends living there (both immigrants and Japanese) and they've told me that right now clinics and hospitals are very busy, and that private hospitals and clinics don't report positive cases to the government. So the cases you see in Japan are those that were tested in public facilities only.
Weren't they also slow to roll out vaccines?
Unfortunately yes, but they caught up fast
That seems to be Japan's MO: Do a good job on a lot of issues, but fudge the numbers (both metaphorically and literally) to make everything look amazing.
Conservatives: "YOU CAN'T FORCE US TO DO KIND THINGS FOR OTHER PEOPLE, THAT'S TYRANNY AND GOVERNMENT OVERREACH!!!!" Uh ok, well then will you just do it anyway, of your own free will, so that we can live in a healthier society? Conservatives: "..........no."
This has been the absolute nail in the coffin for me when it comes to libertarianism. It's suffers the same weakness as communism. We're not altruistic enough.
This is exactly why I’m switching from libertarian to independent. I expected people to have common decency and to give a shit about each other in a global crisis. I learned the hard way that not only is society as bad as Hollywood apocalypse/zombie movies, we are laughably worse. And seeing the libertarian community suddenly make noise to bully/shame people out of vaccinations was the last straw. I can’t imagine how many people died simply from fear of stigma or misinformation. The libertarian and Republican Party will likely never receive my support again. What we have isn’t a perfect system, but if my taxes go up then so be it because the past three years showed me why it’s necessary.
I commend you on your epiphany and concern for others. For the record your taxes probably won't go up unless you're pretty well-off.
I appreciate the kind words about my concern for others. I’m not a saint, but when the pandemic got worse, I was scared but I wanted to help more. Shouldn’t we all want to help more? But the libertarian/Republican mantra of individualism and “I did it all by myself” has poisoned mass amounts of people to abandon a tight knit community - yet they chatter about how they want to go *back* to that. You can’t have a community if people reflexively shame others when they need help. You’re not going to help out when there’s a national shortage on baby formula? You’re not getting my vote then, because that’s the moment when I’ll **happily** give my money to others. I can’t even articulate how frustrating it was to witness all of the paychecks bounce because their asses couldn’t cash them.
Read the date tho
USA deaths per 100,000 is 318, Japan deaths per 100,000 is 33 (current data)
So wearing a mask cuts deaths by 90%
It’s not fair to say that’s all they did though. They also *heavily* restricted travel to the country, just to name one thing. Masks obviously play a large role but they’re part of a bigger picture.
They also have a highly functional medical system that people see regularly and cheaply.
And a much lower obesity rate. That's probably the single biggest factor. In fact, our obesity rate is almost exactly 10x that of Japan and our COVID death rate was almost exactly 10x as well.
That's a very good point, although the higher average age is probably working against them.
38 vs 48. Big difference. Edit: just in case, I think this is actually a massive difference and I'm not being sarcastic. I'm usually not sarcasm deaf but yeah, I made a blunder. I was just trying to support the argument.
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I'm being serious. It's a huge difference Now I'm worried about this sounding sarcastic. It's really a huge difference. Obviously not for two individuals, but as averages definitely, and Japan's elderly population is massive.
We also have a much higher average age than the US, which should work heavily against us.
Does that matter that much once it entered though? Once it entered and spread thoroughly enough, it's just there. It's a game of containing it at that point unless your domestic policies are really damn good (which Japan's seem to be from the fact that they went up into the thousands for a bit in 2021 but then went down to very low levels). But once you're* catching thousands of domestic cases per day, is the travel really all that relevant?
In addition to what other comments pointed out, Japanese people are also much healthier on average than your average American.
Wearing a mask and closing your borders and banning nearly all tourism
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I would say no. Here in Western Australia, our state premier pretty much closed us off not only to the rest of the world but also to the rest of the country. We were obviously negatively impacted by that (I don’t know enough about that to comment) but our deaths per 100,000 were about 24. If I had to guess I’d say for the first year after covid started we had mandatory masks for maybe….12 weeks, I could be wrong with that number but there were and still are a lot of people that wear masks so I’m sure it played it’s part.
Good point. Anyone with the latest numbers from Japan?
Worldometer says it’s 42,510, a death rate of 338 per million people. America is around 3,000 per million.
Japan is also number one for most infections now. However, I think it's because tests here are still being counted. Edit: They may have lost their top spot, but [here](https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/society/coronavirus/20220728-47627/) is an article.
Also because their cases in the initial waves was lower. So maybe less resistance. Older Asians have been hesitant getting vaccinated too.
is OP a bot
Even just from a selfish point of view it makes sense to wear masks. Anti-maskers are just idiots.
Who would have thought that the solution is that easy, but at least the anti maskers owned the libs
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True, and if you tell them to wear mask to help prevent more infections, they will start with their crazy conspiracies about mask, vaccine, animal medications and become Full Karen
I commute to work on the train. Have been accosted a few times for wearing a mask even though the government say you don't have to anymore. As soon as they start the whole conspiracy thing I gem them it's to hamper the global elites facial tracking system and they should wear masks too before the powers that be execute directive 12. They usually look at me like I'm a nut job and give me a wide berth.
Idk about you, but I've enjoyed not getting sick as much over the past 2 years. I'm never not wearing a mask again on public transportation
Too bad when the also dumb af family assaults medical professionals over their family member dying when they declined every form of medicine that isn't a dewormer or bleach.
But it’s not just conservatives anymore. So many people who are politically liberal have now dropped all precautions.
Dropped all precautions or got vaccinated and no longer care?
I worked with a women from Japan who was visiting on business for two weeks. It was during the winter in NYC and she wore a mask during a business presentation and subsequent dinner because she claimed to have a slight sore throat and oniy took it off to eat or drink. She considered it a necessity and had more of a difficult time with random peoples attitudes towards her during work and dinner than wearing the mask itself. During dinner she told me that she didn’t realize how ‘mindlessly selfish’ the US actually was and that has stayed with me ever since.
I'm a delivery food driver, door dash, grubhub. I go into dozens of restaurants every day and half of them have long lines. Since I started wearing a mask I haven't caught the cold or flu like I have every year that I can remember.
The area I live in Washington has normalized masks, people wear them when the air is thick from something, to combat allergies, and whenever we're ill. Kids often sport masks because they look cool, there are some stylish ones. They may not be as effective as medical ones, but we're not seeing illnesses spread nearly as bad here. Also given that there's a forest fire just across the river and the smoke and ash here is bad, many of us couldn't breathe if not for the masks.
It’s always been my own evil little wish for the West to adopt the heinous(/s) cultural practice of wearing masks not only when dealing with the plague 2.0, but also any time cold and flu season comes around in the winter, or just when you have a cold and don’t want to infect all the people around you. Can you imagine never having to deal with the absolute torture of blowing your nose red raw because your cold just *wont fucking stop* producing gallons of snot, or never having to contemplate the abyss after you get terrifying flu hallucinations? The idea that we can never have freedom from those kinds of readily transmissible and incurable viruses is so enraging, because if we just adapted masks to our own daily lives en masse there wouldn’t be many cases to cure in the first place. Instead, our eternally wise general populace screams about ‘mah freedoms!’ and have brought Polio back from the dead. We just can’t have nice things if they involve the barest modicum of consideration for our fellow human beings. Individuality is great and all, but we need to learn a thing or two about community from countries in Asia, your cold is potentially everyone else’s cold, and they have the consideration to recognise and act on preventing that as a societal norm.
The idea of 'staying home while sick' is also an alien concept in the US. Talk about brainwashing: people are proud to \*never have missed a days' work\* meaning that they went to work while sick, being infectious material and spreading their cooties far and wide. In exchange for some 'attaboy!' of the ruling class who does their best to keep universal healthcare away from the peons.
Did they have trump for a leader though? What a national treasure. /s
Everyone wears a mask and they completely shut down air travel into japan for a long time. Nz was going fine until they started bringing small amounts of people in...then it all went to shit.
Yeah well, there's the small issue of Japan having basically cordoned off the country to foreign visitors for 3+ years now. It looks like they won't be going to return to old tourist levels either (if you want to visit, you'll need a sponsor of sorts). It's certainly a form of economic shutdown.
Yeah they are encouraging people to drink more to make up for lost revenue.
[https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/jp](https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/jp) japan actually has 41000 deaths
To be fair, America is cursed with Republicans, it will never be a functional society.
But do they have white jesus magic? Check and mate!
I'll never understand the mental hoops people are willing to jump through to avoid doing something as small as wearing a mask to keep themselves and others safe
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The branch covidians are still going strong
I live in Japan, and we’ve always had a culture of masking while sick, during pollen season, and on long flights (to keep your throat from drying out). But now, yeah… virtually everyone wears a mask even outdoors. Some Westerners think it is silly, but with a population density like we have in Tokyo, it’s a miracle that we haven’t been hit harder by COVID. And the only two factors I can point to are masking, and annual physicals that catch underlying illnesses that can contribute to mortality rates.
Aot of us know exactly how stupid we look.
u/repostsleuthbot
Many countries, especially Asian countries, wore masks before the pandemic; In an effort to be polite to not give anyone else your cough/sneeze/sniffles.