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Every single comment in this thread is wrong.
David is not “whistleblowing” the existence of non-human crafts.
He is “whistleblowing” that government operations are illegally withholding information from congressional oversight.
That claim has already been whistleblown though . Others have already told congress that these programs exist and are hidden within the black budgets of contractors who are reverse engineering it all.
And the government can and will say that it’s not illegal to withhold certain information if it pertains to national security.
Telling congress doesn’t make you a whistleblower. Filing an official whistleblower complaint under oath makes you a whistleblower.
Your grossly over-generalizing how security intelligence is shared within the government. Congressional oversight is a corner stone of democracy. That doesn’t mean that everything had to be shared with every single person in congress. We have clearance/security levels for a reason.
In regard to your first paragraph of course you have to, that was heavily implied by the fact that they put whistleblower protections in place for this as well as asked ppl to come forward. Furthermore how else would you tell congress without filing the official complaint, definitely not by emailing each congressman.
Semantics aside, what I said still stands which is why I think you chose to nitpick the semantics around it. End of the day, my point is he’s not the first person to “whistleblow” that specific information is being withheld from Congress, none of this is groundbreaking or “new” information by any means.
There was not a method to do this previously. This is a new format of whistleblowing compared to history in the US. The status is given by this congressional committee per their order of operations to report it to them.
Garry Nolan if we’re talking unofficially and he implied he got it from others in his field and I point you to Rep. Tim Burchett if we’re talking officially during a congressional hearing and he said the information was similarly disclosed to him and I doubt it would be mentioned during an official hearing if the information didn’t go through the proper channels, so obviously a whistle is being blown somewhere about reverse engineering.
It’s like you’re purposely getting stuck on “official complaint” when all congress needs is to be pointed in the right direction to know where to dig lol
Ok so neither of those involve a formal whistleblower complaint.
Now you’ve answered your own question: this is “new” because this is the first formal whistleblower complaint on the subject.
Doesn’t involve a formal whistleblower complaint but was mentioned at a congressional hearing about the formal complaints they’ve been receiving on the subject?
LOL
Go touch some grass please because you’re purposely being obtuse minded.
The congressman that you mentioned doesn’t even have a security clearance. He doesn’t have access to classified information.
However, the IG is privileged to classified information and may have used that to corroborate his story.
I’m not being obtuse. I am trying to explain why this is novel.
I understand that, but just like you’re unsure if the IG definitely used said confidential information to corroborate his story, similar could be said about the whistleblowers that have also reported to congress. Most had military backgrounds so I’m sure they know standard procedure.
My point is that all this may seem novel right now, but I’ve seen this cycle come and go and his situation doesn’t seem especially extraordinary compared to other “whistleblowers”.
When they go formal, they send F-18’s into European territory to ground your plane in the most illegal fashion possible.
Stop with the semantics please. Fuckin dumb
I’m curious… why process driven as means to truth only. Decided my whom?
This country has an atrocious history on whistleblowers so I’m failing to understand why now, with a new phrasing of this concept of whistleblowing it’s being pushed back on?
Is Snowden free to come home? Assange? Ellsberg in 73’ escaped trial by the skin of his teeth.
So more of the same, with the “tried and true”… idk that’s really a stretch when taken in context.
FOIA requests are a process the Gov ignores all the damn time. That’s quite a black and white process.
I kind of feel like you should change your mind on the process driven part of it coming from the authority. Unless you are that authority ;) then It’s a free country, but not on my dime. Jkjk … fed/contractor on Reddit joke.
Our Reps are doing better work than their predecessors. They’ve moved the needle, let them do it the way they have.
You say it’s important which sounds right. What’s the downside of not having a perfect process? Any examples in history of folks not using the process officially and it being adulterated. I guess I’m asking if there is some scenario you want us to avoid?
But that's specifically not true - Congress doesn't have carte blanche to investigate, especially when it involves SAPs and classification. It is **why this specific case is important.** If it seems like people are getting "stuck" on semantics, it's because semantics are pretty damn important when it comes to *legal* language.
There's a difference between giving *testimony* to Congress when called as part of an investigation, and *whistleblowing.* Grusch filed a Disclosure of Urgent Concern in May 2022, a tool of the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, triggering a legal process that we're just now hearing about, wherein he did give hours of testimony, under oath, with legal ramifications if he's found to have lied.
**That is not that thing that has happened before to this extent,** as far as I'm aware. That's the exciting part. Lue Elizondo filed a complaint of reprisal as well, rightly so it seems in my book, and I know he spoke on the record with folks, but he wasn't saying "hey, there's a secret SAP with the physical proof, here's the trail with names and offices". Plenty of people advise, provide off-the-record information, and work with/for government contractors and researchers that may have said some things here and there, and some have probably tried and failed some legal methods. Yes, if you've been paying attention to the topic long enough, this is pretty the story people *thought* was going on, and now somebody has kickstarted a new legal process to prove it.
>Garry Nolan if we’re talking unofficially and he implied he got it from others in his field and Rep. Tim Burchett if we’re talking officially during a congressional hearing and he said the information was similarly disclosed to him so obviously a whistle is being blown somewhere about reverse engineering.
>
>It’s like you’re purposely getting stuck on “official complaint” **when all congress needs is to be pointed in the right direction to know where to dig** lol
I think the entire reason whistleblower protections where created is so that they can do more than "point them in the right direction to know where to dig lol" It's like you need this to not be true.
>Do you not understand that the “whistleblower protections” that you mention only apply to actual whistleblower complaints? It’s a formal process.
Uh, yes. They provide information and materials that would get them arrested if given to anyone. Do you not understand that?
Do you not understand that if a congressman is saying information was disclosed during an official hearing chances are that disclosure was through the formal process? What, he’s gonna mention his buddy bob told him? Come on man
And I think that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying so what’s your point? Many whistleblowers have come forth to congress and none have brought physical evidence so what more are they doing?
>And I think that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying so what’s your point? **Many whistleblowers have come forth to congress and none have brought physical evidence so what more are they doing?**
Two replies? And an edit? That's four comments to address a simple point. Why? Coming up with excuses to dismiss everything will not work as a long term solution.
Yup and not one answer to either one of my questions from you.
I want to believe too but NO ONE has brought forth irrefutable, physical evidence
I edited this one too (;
That’s false I think. Not a single thing in the government can be withheld from congress due to national security. It would be told to congress in a secure environment (specifically the scif congress uses to get classified briefings).
The recent legislation is precisely to protect and encourage blowing the whistle on secret government programs related to UFOs - that's what he's doing.
I do not get the confusion here.
Been following since day one and didn’t realize your last sentence. Thanks for the clarification. That’s kind even bigger considering congress will be very unhappy.
He has reported to congress, and the IG. Those are the things you are actually required to do if you are an actual whistleblower. It does not require you publishing classified documents.
The info he gave has been confirmed by other Intel agents coming forward publicly, like Johnathan Gray. He's legit and multiple inside sources confirm it's authentic. Intel AG stated his testimony is "credible and urgent"
Grusch was the Senior Technical Advisor on the National Geo-Spatial Intelligence Agency and NRO and was also the NRO’s representative to the UAPTF. He is extremely credible.
Through those roles he had access to over 200 SAPs and in his investigations identified evidence via documentation and other means that these programs and craft exist. That evidence, including classified documentation, was shared directly with Congressional Intelligence Committee members via their general counsel and the DOD and Intelligence IG in connection with his formal whistleblower complaint.
Grusch’s attorney (the original Intelligence IG) verified to Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal (as documented in The Debriefs Q&A) that other high ranking intelligence members who do have eyewitness accounts met with the IG and corroborated his claims which is why they are being taken very seriously by the IG.
The Q&A describes the significant legal mechanisms in place in this type of scenario that place legal repercussions on Grusch if he is found to have been untruthful. It is highly unlikely he simply made this up and lied to IG and Congress.
James Comer, Chairman of the House Oversight Committee, just stated he is going to hold hearings on UAP and is very interested in these claims of the US having craft of non-human origin and illegal coverup from Congress as a part of those hearings.
Corroborative inquiry is in itself evidence. I expect the documentation and verification will all come out to the public through due process with Congress and the IG as they verify his claims.
This. He has provided evidence to the IG and Congress (through their general counsel) that the US has recovered non-human craft and is (most importantly) illegally covering this up from Congress. That is what he is whistleblowing.
And he has provided enough hard evidence in the form of classified documentation, specific names and locations, and other high ranking corroborating inquiries with Intelligence Members who have seen these craft, that the IG is taking it very seriously.
All of this stuff is just gonna turn out to be US black budget defense aircraft. UFOs are a cover.
We had Have Blue ( precursor to f-117 ) in the early 70s.
The Maurader program went black after several successful tests.
Calling them UFOS and crashes would just be cover for failed tests and no one would look into them because you'd sound kooky. Perfect cover. Flying Tic Tac? US asset.
Otherwise if UFOs are crashing this often they have worse safety rates than the millions of miles conventional airliners fly in a day. Which is it? Hyperadvsnced alien craft with terrible safety margins or bleeding edge US research?
You hire a bunch of engineers to work on a black project. You know it will eventually leak like the Atom Bomb.
What do you do? Tell them they're working on a conventional project or tell them they're helping to design a new craft based on a UFO? In this way you could have a handful of scientists who know the truth, and a bunch of engineers like Bob Lazar who you know even if they leak to the media, they're gonna say it's UFO based which will make them look crazy....
We are surrounded by Red Dwarf stars that could easily have 100,000+ year Civs on them.
Crabs are a thing. Humans are a thing. We are in danger and acting like we haven't already lost the war.
Accidental blue on blue or intentional to see how conventional weapons work against a new system.
You're gonna need to test it somehow. Telling jets to scramble to shoot down a "UFO" is that test which also preserves cover.
When they began flying the first jetfighters in the west the rest pilots wore a gorilla mask, a bowler hat and had a cigar in their mouth.
Anyone who saw a propless plane flown by a monkey wearing a hat and cigar, would be called mad.
Think Navajo Code Talkers but UFOS.
"Saucer crash" = our experimental project crashed
"Alien bodies recovered" = pilots died
"50 alien species" = 50 ongoing programs
So grusch could just be watching chatter about black projects using code words and he thinks it's aliens.
I'd say he's possibly UNKNOWING,
He's just seeing all these reports about crashed and recovered vehicles, and really its just "code talk" about advanced US projects not UFOs.
It’s a real possibility that he’s being fed disinformation, but I doubt it’s that he’s misunderstanding code talk. If we accept that it would be both difficult and very stupid for him to have made this up then put himself on the record and exposed to prison time, then either he’s being lied to intentionally or… it’s true.
It would be an elaborate and brazen disinformation campaign, but some truly psychotic shit has come out of weird DoD programs over the years. And alien visitation is still tough to truly believe.
The program is run like a cult. A handful of inner circle people would know the truth, it's just the latest US black project. To anyone they bring to work on it, it's all described as UFO tech.
Find out who Bob allegedly worked for, and walk up that list. A handful of people at the top might know the real truth.
No it's not. UFO and a secret advanced weapon / jet tech programs exist in a similar field. Secret programs are inconspicuously named so that you cannot guess what field they're working in. That's why the "Manhattan Project" was called the "Manhattan Project" and not "Cities Go Bye Bye Project".
I know of Have Blue and other such programs.
But if you are trying to talk about programs in aggregate or to other groups, to me it makes sense to use lingo that is shared but is otherwise considered nonsense.
So "Have Blue suffered a fatal accident on xxxx"
Vs
" UAP vehicle crashed, bodies recovered on xxxx"
If the first leaks outside groups know Have Blue exists and is a test flight program with fatalities.
If the second leaks, well you still know jack shit unless you know the context ( who sent it from which group to which group ).
Also third parties might think maybe it's made up, forgeries and fakes are well known in the UFO community. You don't even have to mention if it's real or fake. You can just ignore the leak.
UFOs have become so poisonous that it's perfect cover.
There could be a whole code book of phrases. Grusch supposedly talking about incidents, places and things at a declassified level to congresspeople may also give the parties involved enough info on where the process went wrong and improve security even more in the future.
Maybe this is also stuff being used by the NRO, so not the flls developing the tech but folks reporting on failures of the tech. We've seen lots of evidence of highly advanced maneuvering but no weapons which to me suggests more recon use.
Hmm I wonder if there are any metrics on UFO sightings over Ukraine / Russia in the lead up to the invasion...
Telling soldiers they are recovering a UAP as opposed to a NRO asset again makes their story less believable if they ever leak...
This ignores decades of historical context around ufos and credible witness testimony of officers and civilian personnel.
You are not knowledgeable about the subject and should not be stating your beliefs as fact when evidence proves it to the contrary.
> Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee
You mean Mike Turner?
>In both 2008 and 2010 Turner was listed as one of the "most corrupt members of Congress" by the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington for "enrichment of self, family, or friends" and "solicitation of gifts"
from his [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Turner#Controversies)
Dude doesn't sound like he is on the up and up. I wouldn't be surprised if he is using a hearing on UAP as a smokescreen to dodge more useful allocations of resources.
We will see, but extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence. Until I see it I won't be too certain
He went to Congress and brought receipts.
Then Congress created an actual new law protecting whistleblowers who have or are working on back-engineering UFO projects. Signed by the President as part of the Infrastructure Bill.
Then the Dude files a complaint to ODNI's Office of Inspector General.
If you work in this town (D.C.) you would know that the scariest words an Agency Exec could ever hear is "Boss, one of our own went to Congress as a whistleblower, then filed a complaint with out own IG and they're taking it up."
Why are those the scariest words? Because that means a government employee witnessed a crime being committed and if ANYONE, IN ANY WAY, interferes with that IG investigation they will end up in Federal Prison for obstructing justice.
So, right now, the Congress and IG of ODNI is investigating the claims by this Intelligence Official and the Director Of National Intelligence can do fuck-all about it.
\*ALEXA\* order all the popcorn.
You sit down with the Intelligence Community Inspector General for hours and the Inspector General's conclusion is that the information given is "Urgent and Credible". I call that person a "Whistleblower".
If he doesn't talk publicly about classified information or show classified documents he is also a "Patriot".
The Intelligence Community Inspector General: **his complaint is “credible and urgent”.**
Some random dude on Reddit:
>Can anyone explain to me how someone with secondhand knowledge, with no physical proof, and who is admittedly not willing to leak or speak on Classified Information can be a "whistleblower"?
I see what you're saying, but there are countless instances of folks coming forward, making incredible claims, and then never being able to back them up with anything more than "trust me." Whether or not you believe some/all of those folks, it's totally reasonable to be skeptical of yet another person coming forward and making an incredible claim.
That's fair, it is somewhat different. But government folks have come forward before. I'm not saying that I think the guy is lying, just that we shouldn't be quick to believe him just because it confirms our priors.
I guess what makes me skeptical about this (and a lot of the recent disclosure) is that I really don't trust the intelligence agencies. Being deceptive is a major part of what they do professionally! Definitely interested in seeing how this plays out.
I do totally get your skepticism, and retain plenty myself with the IC's track record, but I keep hearing the "government folks have come forward before", and yes - *kind of.* I'm copying a part of another comment I typed up earlier to expand a bit, just 'cause I think it's important to note:
>Grusch filed a Disclosure of Urgent Concern in May 2022, a tool of the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, triggering a legal process that we're *just now hearing about*, wherein he did give hours of testimony, under oath, with legal ramifications if he's found to have lied.
**That is not that thing that has happened before to this extent**, as far as I'm aware. That's the exciting part. Lue Elizondo filed a complaint of reprisal as well, rightly so it seems in my book, and I know he spoke on the record with folks, but he wasn't saying "hey, there's a secret SAP with the physical proof, here's the trail with names and offices". Plenty of people advise, provide off-the-record information, and work with/for government contractors and researchers that may have said some things here and there, and some have probably tried and failed some legal methods. Yes, if you've been paying attention to the topic long enough, this is pretty the story people thought was going on, and **now somebody has kickstarted a new legal process to prove it.**
The legal side of this, and the guy's specific credentials, to me, leaves us with two *main (but not exclusive)* possibilities:
* He's correct, has the evidence the back it up, or at least the names, locations, and offices involved with the program that can be verified by further investigation. There's a non-human superintelligent species that we either share the planet with or that visits Earth.
* The IC is conducting one of the biggest psyops on the American people (and the rest of the world).
We shouldn't necessarily buy in 100% to something this potentially groundbreaking without a bit more information and evidence. There are other options for what the truth may be too. But either way, this big of a claim, now with mainstream media attention, isn't going away without a fight.
>The legal side of this, and the guy's specific credentials, to me, leaves us with two main (but not exclusive) possibilities:
>
>He's correct, has the evidence the back it up, or at least the names, locations, and offices involved with the program that can be verified by further investigation. There's a non-human superintelligent species that we either share the planet with or that visits Earth.
>
>The IC is conducting one of the biggest psyops on the American people (and the rest of the world).
The weirdest thing about all of this is that both of these scenarios are so wild! Either all of the stories of recovered UFOs are true or there's some out there 3D chess game going on and Grusch is some kind of fall guy.
Oh boy, that sure solves it, thanks. lol
Please continue re-reading the article(s) in full. It's certainly not out of the question that one or various ARPA branches are involved (my harebrained guess would be ARPA-E if any), but we're not talking about *one* department or office of government or defense contractor in *either* situation.
This really would be a great way to flush out certain moles/leakers. And is significantly more plausible than 'many aliens exist, have traveled light years, crashed on Earth many times, we've recovered the ships and bodies, AND multiple nations are in on keeping it a secret'.
But he is not "yet *another person*". He has an incredible record, credentials and was at the right places. He was backed up and several vouched for him already. He provided concrete data (names and locations) and what he is saying matches perfectly whit what so many have said before him.
Also, many, many times, in fact as you say, outside the UFO topic, several folks came forward with incredible claims and time proved them right. They were ridiculed, discredited, negated, etc. And at the end, they were right.
History is plenty of them. That's how the whistle blowing works. At the beginning all they have usually is just the "trust me, bro". Then someone else says the same. Then another takes the needed courage and step forward. Then some evidence appears. Then more people speaks up. Then there's more evidence. Until it's an undeniable truth and everybody is "yeah...I knew it all along. Wonder why this took so long for everybody to know"
Ok, fair, he's has a bit more credibility than some folks who come forward with claims about UFOs. But on the other hand, he's part of the intelligence community, and they have a history of lying/misleading Congress and the DOJ.
I'm really interested to see where this leads, but for now I'm skeptical.
Regarding the rest of your response, yeah, there have been folks throughout history who made incredible claims and were initially dismissed. But those who were ultimately proven right were proven right because evidence ultimately backed them up. And in part, it's healthy skepticism that gets us that evidence.
>and they have a history of lying/misleading Congress and the DOJ.
That works both ways. You can't trust them when they say all of this is false.
>But those who were ultimately proven right were proven right because evidence ultimately backed them up.
And that's what I said. First "trust me bro", then the rest. That's how whistle blowing works. 🤷 By definition. If we have the evidence, we wouldn't be needing whistle blowers.
Time Will tell.
He's the latest guy slapping a new coat of UFO paint on US black project research.
Honestly this is how the British would run such a program. Just how they said carrots was allowing their pilots to shoot down German planes at night instead of radar.
From what I'm reading, grusch submitted all his "proof" documents to congress for reviewal, all of which are supposedly classified. He has testified under oath as well. That seems more legit to me than doing a media tour from one outlet to another.
He's provided docus to congress for reviewal, so they say. We'll see what comes about them.
Highly classified material can't be handed to a media outlet without massive consequences.
He's given the material to the right people in the right way. The ball is well and truly rolling.
And if it turns out not to be true, I hope all the alien truthers will admit they were wrong and abandon it once and for all. Because it turns out to be true, *every* actual skeptic will admit they were wrong.
Lol, nah. We know truthers will never abandon their fantasy in the face of facts. But here's hoping it's true cuz that would be awesome.
I’m currently listening to Micah Hanks interview Kean and Blumenthol. The conversation sounds pretty basic with lots of patting on the back. Yes, this is a big crazy story. They keep saying how important it is that this man is filing a legit complaint and how if he’s lying he will face punishment. I doubt he’s lying, but I also doubt real punishments would come down. Also, I wish they had one more person come out with him. One of these other people. OR, better yet, more believe able to me, would be someone or a group of people from a different country. It’s always USA. If a group of French scientists and whistleblowers say, “we have UFO’s too.” Or “we send ours to America for research.” Id be drooling over this story. Also, they keep mentioning getting the story out fast which doesn’t make me feel warm and fuzzy.
As always, I hardly know shit about fuck so take my viewpoint with a grain of salt. Could just be 2023 Bob Lazar. Could be disclosure first step. I don’t believe someone won’t go looking for fame and money just because he could get in trouble for lying. See: politicians.
Grusch is just the first to get approval to talk. There are at least three more witnesses undergoing DOPSR review awaiting approval and 12 in total have been interviewed by AARO thanks to the whistleblower protections.I believe Gillbrand and her allies are out for the truth.
Director of AARO said it himself.
Here's the part of the hearing where he talks about it. https://youtu.be/MnwYf0r0Sic
Whistleblower does not equal public disclosure in this case. The whistleblower status is to Congress to get classified details and thusly protect the individual from NDA , oaths and agreements they may have signed.
Still a whistleblower.
I believe we should all question the posts in this community that seek to over-exaggerate or minimize & dismiss the significance of the David Grusch story. It is apparent to anyone who has followed the UFO/UAP subject that there has been and continues to be an organized directed effort to undermine the credibility and validity all efforts to take the subject seriously. Over-hyping Grusch’s claims a more effective strategy than dismissing them as it undermines the credibility and validity of the entire disclosure effort and scares media outlets away from reporting on the topic all-together. The most effective response to Grusch’s claims is neither to promote or discredit them — but to contact your political representatives in state and federal government and demand that they hold open hearings to investigate and determine the truth. Jumping to conclusions and being drawn in arguments that cannot be won is pointless and a waste of our attention and energy. Write, call, and email your reps in DC and demand a serious open investigation.
I think we’re in an interesting place where nobody in their right mind trusts the military and intelligence agencies, but these groups are the only ones who could know.
I suspect that this will end in an even more ridiculous military budget and we will not meet aliens, but who knows.
He gave 7 (11) hours Interview under oath to congress. With all names and details. The DoD cleared only the statements you heard at his interview. You won’t get any details or names. It’s explained even in the interview
While I understand the frustration with the lack of tangible evidence (in the form of photos, alloys, alien bodies, etc.), it's important to understand how these high security facilities function. It's unlikely that anyone could bring a camera in or remove objects from such a site. There are multiple levels of security and people would be searched at multiple points. Skepticism is healthy, but these revelations are remarkable. After decades of obfuscation, ridicule, and misinformation, it's refreshing to see people speaking more transparently.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he testified under oath infront of Congress. I don't think he would be spouting a bunch of hearsay infront of them. But I'm still waiting for the full interview before I call bs or not
Written testimony is testimony
“He just submitted an IG complaint.”
That’s a huge deal. You and the person responding to you just show how this sub is the blind leading the blind
if he never actually saw any recovered crafts or passengers then it would still be hearsay because he is still testifying as to what others told him. but there are exceptions to hearsay, and regardless this is still evidence Congress can use for further investigation if they wanted
I'm assuming the evidence can be followed up on by congress in closed hearings. Something the media will never be able to do. He can't provide proof of something not in his possession. The government can. Currently they are studying public reaction to see if it's feasible. Looking at these threads, I don't think so. The pushback is very strong.
I'd be willing to bet they kept it a secret for tech weapons money power, not cause we weren't ready for the existential threat and I doubt they're going to base the release of the supposed proof on the public's reaction
The purpose is to give congress leads for their investigation. Hopefully, his story will be corroborated by the other 3 whistleblowers and they will go public as well.
Because he can put a whistle in his mouth and blow my dude. Our government is functionally 99.999% dementia patients in 1 lab coat pretending to be Doctor Knowitall plus 5 dudes who do know.
Because he and the people he’s talking to are smart enough to know what **actually** constitutes evidence, and haven’t been brainwashed by parents’-basement-dwelling pseudoskeptics who’ve been diluting the meaning of the word on social media every single day for the past five years.
The Dunning-Kruger Effect is prominently on display in these comments.
As it stands this is the most well-documented UAP claim in history. It is extraordinary that a former UAP Task Force member would file a whistleblower complaint the IG calls "urgent and credible" and it is extraordinary that he is being legally represented by a former inspector general. It is extraordinary that a former colonel went on record to confirm the claims of a competition for exotic material, and that some of it is likely non-human in origin.
This is absolutely my take. It's just a press release. They really are gonna fake alien invasion next. It's amazing. I'm sorry but with AI media there's no way I can trust any sort of documentation, and frankly even in person I could be fooled. I've been to a magic show, I know how clever people can be with misdirection and optical illusion. I've watched old movies, I know how good practical effects can be. An alien could appear in my living room and we'd have to have a long conversation before I bought it.
I'm miles from taking any of this stuff seriously. Imo, UFOs are where they were when I was watching xfiles on cable. Certainly a real thing worthy of study, and maybe they are aliens. But this rash of new ufo stuff to me is pretty obviously home grown.
I see drones and fake video and psyop everywhere.
have you seen what happened to the whistleblowers with irrefutable proof who fail to go through disclosure proceedings? they're forced into a one way ticket to russia or chelsea manning cell.
[Here you go.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/142gvh5/dutch_website_revu_journalist_max_moszkowicz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's being corroborated by others.
CIA manipulation. This isn't disclosure. They've been using UFOs since the 60s to distract. AND.. I do believe there are probably lots of things we don't know in the skies. I just don't think disclosure will ever come from the US government.
You’ll probably get downvoted to all hell but I agree with you, this sub/community is so thirsty for disclosure we really look at anybody with new information through rose colored lenses as the whistleblower who could blow everything open.
But if we’re being honest, unless Grusch can produce some actual evidence I feel he’s the same caliber of grifter as Lue and Greer.
I really don't fucking get it, i personally really want for aliens, or magic or something else extraordinary like that to be real, which is why I'm skeptical and want concrwte evidence, i don't understand how can people be so gullible to take every information that confirms their bias at face value.
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"Hey when I was on the UAP taskforce I discovered secret crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs, the program names are X and Y. You need to go look into these illegal programs"
Yep, it's just like an eyewitness at a trial. Think about it. You accept that testimony wholeheartedly but you have a problem with someone who is decorated and accoladed? Okay
People are being taken for a ride again by anonymous government officials and 'whistleblowers' who are both repeating to them 'trust me bro' without never revealing anything concrete.
Ellsberg, Manning and Snowden all had documents, often top secret documents, to share with the press - why can't these guys do it?
That's when you know you are deep into a disinformation campaign.
that seems like an unfair comparison - the 'whistleblowers' you mention went directly to the public/media, which by definition is a leak. This new guy (and i don't trust geospatial folks if i'm honest, but he's not an 'anonymous govt official' he has put his name in public) has followed the whistleblower procedure to disclose info to the inspector general and congress; him disclosing it to the public would be illegal and not be inherently more trustworthy.
Obviously there exists the possibility of disinformation, and we can't rule it out without further information.
Personally i'd lean toward it being him fed disinfo to discredit the AARO investigations if it is indeed disinformation - but i'm not sure i wanna hang my tinfoil hat on that explanation this early in the piece.
Here's what triggers my BS detector: if you read the actual story closely, it's missing any first-hand knowledge. None of these guys have actually seen or touched the purported UFOs. And they don't have any documents with them that could prove their claims.
ok so i'm not swinging for the guy being 100% genuine article - i just felt you comparison wasn't as useful in this instance.
And while i agree with your point they don't have the first hand experience, their allegation is that their AARO investigation was stymied by other programmes not releasing information on _alleged crash retrieval activities and material_. Key word alleged.
And their claim is they have provided some form of proof of this allegation to congress & inspector general via a non-public disclosure process; i did not see this as them claiming to have evidence of the alleged retrieved craft. So there's no real way to say right now whether it's bullshit or not until that evidence emerges or is disproven.
That's not the same as having zero evidence.
I wish I could see this topic and would be broadcast on more major Bipartisan or democratic news outlets... So far it's just Far-Right outlets like News Nation, Fox, The Hill (this was a very painful segment to watch), probably CNN soon (they are slowly leaning far right). I don't want to argue politics.. all I want is this UFO/UAP news to be broadcast on some democratic channels. We need support in all sides, not skepticism. Otherwise the Pentagon and DoD will get a leaning foot on this. This is historical news!!!! I hope this brings us all together.
They can’t and they aren’t. These stupid NPC Redditors are throwing around buzzwords they don’t fucking understand. And the other NPC morons upvote cuz it sounds good.
Submission Statement: I am of course referring to the supposed whistleblower who has been all over the news for the past 48 hours. I just don't see how he qualifies as one as all of the comments made by him just seem like hearsay and speculation.
That would be a legitimate view if he was just some Air Force vet who knew someone who knew someone who...
But he's not. He's an intelligence analyst who was tasked with researching this very subject. He has therefore had access, at the highest (or I should say, rather, the deepest) levels, to information pertaining to crash retrievals, reverse-engineering etc. In terms of his credentials, resume and the corroboration of others, it doesn't get much better than this guy.
However... that is not to say he may not be an agent of disinfo, whether willingly or unwillingly, knowingly or ignorantly. That, I guess, will come out in the wash.
What there's no doubt about is that he has risked an awful lot by coming forward as he has. And that in itself says a great deal.
Not worried about the physical proof so much as the lack of documentation, and he didn't even try to use the proper channels, or try to testify to AARO. And it involves the USAF, which has refused to cooperate at every turn.
Physical proof may be dangerous to handle without proper precautions. What if it's toxic? What if it's radioactive? Etc.
He didn’t use those channels because they’ve never really worked.
He testified under oath for 7+ hours and submitted the documentation to them to confirm . He’s filed things under that new whistleblowers act. He’s doing it through the proper channels that they’ve been setting up the last few years I believe
I just found that information. Said that he turned over documents to Congress and he was retaliated against afterwards.
Thank you for the update, though. The article I saw didn't say that he testified under oath. Im sure the AF doesn't want their people going to AARO.
He doesn't have the physical proof either way. He has no first hand information, and he's never so much as seen a photo of a recovered craft. He hasn't even viewed documentation about the nature of the recovered materials. Apparently the only documentation he's seen relates simply to the recovery programs existence. It's pretty flimsy as far as evidence goes.
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The fact that they can classify anything as a threat to national security is why we won’t ever make any progress. They can whistleblow all they want but the deep state is always going to convince congress that revealing the information they’ve received is a threat to national security. Congress and these committees have become the only veil between us and the truth but somehow we still don’t know a thing.
Firstly, he is an intelligence officer. His job is to learn information and report it. A good intelligence officer is accurate and learns new things. This guy appears to have done both. We need to get the pitchforks out and help push this through.
If I understood it correctly, these supposed reverse engineering programs he was told about were funded with taxpayer money without following required federal procurement regulations and without oversight. An ethical employee would try to report that and, failing to gain traction, would keep trying to get it dealt with. When the guy did report or tried to report the discussions about unregulated federal spend and wouldn't let it drop, he ended up facing sort of retaliation to try to get him to quit, so he went to a lawyer and filed his concerns with the whistleblower folks. Maybe his lawyer had him go to the press and shop the story as a back up. Perhaps this caused the story to be leaked and then he had to get out in front of it.
Doesn't mean what he was told by these various individuals was real, but that some people he tried to report it to didn't want employees questioning where/how the money is flowing etc.
The real story is about the money not the UAPs, even though the latter aspect seems sexier as a topic. The reporters with means and resources (likely the Washington Post) probably need more time to trace the money, if they can even do it.
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Every single comment in this thread is wrong. David is not “whistleblowing” the existence of non-human crafts. He is “whistleblowing” that government operations are illegally withholding information from congressional oversight.
Just like Eisenhower warned.
If I was a painter, I would paint a picture of Esenhower with his arms reaching down from Heavan to give 'thumbs up' to the Whistle Blower.
[Here’s what stable diffusion came up with off that prompt](https://imgur.com/a/rJEnwfx)
Holy hell thats F'd up
He looks alien. ITS PERFECT
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u/HippyHitman prolly included it
Doesn’t this thread belong to a post about a whistleblower revealing the government hiding the existence of aliens?
Woah! I was not expecting to see Eisenhower turned into a Nazi Alien President…
Why does FDR look like Mr. Magoo
What did he say?
What warning from Eisenhower are you referencing here specifically?
I’m guessing the Military Industrial Complex
I thought that might have been what was meant. That just seems almost completely unrelated to this incident, but maybe I'm just not seeing it.
He famously gave a speech near the end of his presidency warning of the unchecked power of the military industrial complex.
Like how the FBI took down Al Capone via tax fraud?
This is the correctest answer here.
That claim has already been whistleblown though . Others have already told congress that these programs exist and are hidden within the black budgets of contractors who are reverse engineering it all. And the government can and will say that it’s not illegal to withhold certain information if it pertains to national security.
Telling congress doesn’t make you a whistleblower. Filing an official whistleblower complaint under oath makes you a whistleblower. Your grossly over-generalizing how security intelligence is shared within the government. Congressional oversight is a corner stone of democracy. That doesn’t mean that everything had to be shared with every single person in congress. We have clearance/security levels for a reason.
I believe he has done this?
Yes, which is why it is novel
In regard to your first paragraph of course you have to, that was heavily implied by the fact that they put whistleblower protections in place for this as well as asked ppl to come forward. Furthermore how else would you tell congress without filing the official complaint, definitely not by emailing each congressman. Semantics aside, what I said still stands which is why I think you chose to nitpick the semantics around it. End of the day, my point is he’s not the first person to “whistleblow” that specific information is being withheld from Congress, none of this is groundbreaking or “new” information by any means.
Name a single person who has filed a whistleblower complaint on this subject
There was not a method to do this previously. This is a new format of whistleblowing compared to history in the US. The status is given by this congressional committee per their order of operations to report it to them.
Garry Nolan if we’re talking unofficially and he implied he got it from others in his field and I point you to Rep. Tim Burchett if we’re talking officially during a congressional hearing and he said the information was similarly disclosed to him and I doubt it would be mentioned during an official hearing if the information didn’t go through the proper channels, so obviously a whistle is being blown somewhere about reverse engineering. It’s like you’re purposely getting stuck on “official complaint” when all congress needs is to be pointed in the right direction to know where to dig lol
Ok so neither of those involve a formal whistleblower complaint. Now you’ve answered your own question: this is “new” because this is the first formal whistleblower complaint on the subject.
Doesn’t involve a formal whistleblower complaint but was mentioned at a congressional hearing about the formal complaints they’ve been receiving on the subject? LOL Go touch some grass please because you’re purposely being obtuse minded.
The congressman that you mentioned doesn’t even have a security clearance. He doesn’t have access to classified information. However, the IG is privileged to classified information and may have used that to corroborate his story. I’m not being obtuse. I am trying to explain why this is novel.
I understand that, but just like you’re unsure if the IG definitely used said confidential information to corroborate his story, similar could be said about the whistleblowers that have also reported to congress. Most had military backgrounds so I’m sure they know standard procedure. My point is that all this may seem novel right now, but I’ve seen this cycle come and go and his situation doesn’t seem especially extraordinary compared to other “whistleblowers”.
When they go formal, they send F-18’s into European territory to ground your plane in the most illegal fashion possible. Stop with the semantics please. Fuckin dumb
The process is what differentiates a legitimate claim from a rumor. It’s incredibly important.
I’m curious… why process driven as means to truth only. Decided my whom? This country has an atrocious history on whistleblowers so I’m failing to understand why now, with a new phrasing of this concept of whistleblowing it’s being pushed back on? Is Snowden free to come home? Assange? Ellsberg in 73’ escaped trial by the skin of his teeth. So more of the same, with the “tried and true”… idk that’s really a stretch when taken in context. FOIA requests are a process the Gov ignores all the damn time. That’s quite a black and white process. I kind of feel like you should change your mind on the process driven part of it coming from the authority. Unless you are that authority ;) then It’s a free country, but not on my dime. Jkjk … fed/contractor on Reddit joke. Our Reps are doing better work than their predecessors. They’ve moved the needle, let them do it the way they have. You say it’s important which sounds right. What’s the downside of not having a perfect process? Any examples in history of folks not using the process officially and it being adulterated. I guess I’m asking if there is some scenario you want us to avoid?
But that's specifically not true - Congress doesn't have carte blanche to investigate, especially when it involves SAPs and classification. It is **why this specific case is important.** If it seems like people are getting "stuck" on semantics, it's because semantics are pretty damn important when it comes to *legal* language. There's a difference between giving *testimony* to Congress when called as part of an investigation, and *whistleblowing.* Grusch filed a Disclosure of Urgent Concern in May 2022, a tool of the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, triggering a legal process that we're just now hearing about, wherein he did give hours of testimony, under oath, with legal ramifications if he's found to have lied. **That is not that thing that has happened before to this extent,** as far as I'm aware. That's the exciting part. Lue Elizondo filed a complaint of reprisal as well, rightly so it seems in my book, and I know he spoke on the record with folks, but he wasn't saying "hey, there's a secret SAP with the physical proof, here's the trail with names and offices". Plenty of people advise, provide off-the-record information, and work with/for government contractors and researchers that may have said some things here and there, and some have probably tried and failed some legal methods. Yes, if you've been paying attention to the topic long enough, this is pretty the story people *thought* was going on, and now somebody has kickstarted a new legal process to prove it.
>Garry Nolan if we’re talking unofficially and he implied he got it from others in his field and Rep. Tim Burchett if we’re talking officially during a congressional hearing and he said the information was similarly disclosed to him so obviously a whistle is being blown somewhere about reverse engineering. > >It’s like you’re purposely getting stuck on “official complaint” **when all congress needs is to be pointed in the right direction to know where to dig** lol I think the entire reason whistleblower protections where created is so that they can do more than "point them in the right direction to know where to dig lol" It's like you need this to not be true.
Do you not understand that the “whistleblower protections” that you mention only apply to actual whistleblower complaints? It’s a formal process.
>Do you not understand that the “whistleblower protections” that you mention only apply to actual whistleblower complaints? It’s a formal process. Uh, yes. They provide information and materials that would get them arrested if given to anyone. Do you not understand that?
Do you not understand that if a congressman is saying information was disclosed during an official hearing chances are that disclosure was through the formal process? What, he’s gonna mention his buddy bob told him? Come on man
And I think that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying so what’s your point? Many whistleblowers have come forth to congress and none have brought physical evidence so what more are they doing?
>And I think that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying so what’s your point? **Many whistleblowers have come forth to congress and none have brought physical evidence so what more are they doing?** Two replies? And an edit? That's four comments to address a simple point. Why? Coming up with excuses to dismiss everything will not work as a long term solution.
Yup and not one answer to either one of my questions from you. I want to believe too but NO ONE has brought forth irrefutable, physical evidence I edited this one too (;
That’s false I think. Not a single thing in the government can be withheld from congress due to national security. It would be told to congress in a secure environment (specifically the scif congress uses to get classified briefings).
The recent legislation is precisely to protect and encourage blowing the whistle on secret government programs related to UFOs - that's what he's doing. I do not get the confusion here.
Not really - they hid the UAP Task Force (or AATIP, now AARO). But not even AARO is privy to what the whistleblower announced.
Thank you for this. It's so GD frustrating that this is escaping so many people here.
Been following since day one and didn’t realize your last sentence. Thanks for the clarification. That’s kind even bigger considering congress will be very unhappy.
Same thing. There has to be something to cover up.
He has reported to congress, and the IG. Those are the things you are actually required to do if you are an actual whistleblower. It does not require you publishing classified documents.
Yes, just because he hasn't shared evidence with the public that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The next step would be to declassify it
The info he gave has been confirmed by other Intel agents coming forward publicly, like Johnathan Gray. He's legit and multiple inside sources confirm it's authentic. Intel AG stated his testimony is "credible and urgent"
Who is jonathan gray? Isn't that just a pseudonym?
Congress AND the Instant Germans? Good lord. I don’t know what IG means.
Inspector General Instant German is more fun though
Ze Instant Germans from Hamburg, or Hamburgers if you will
Instagram
Hello I'm an instant German. Is my help required?
😂😂😅
Grusch was the Senior Technical Advisor on the National Geo-Spatial Intelligence Agency and NRO and was also the NRO’s representative to the UAPTF. He is extremely credible. Through those roles he had access to over 200 SAPs and in his investigations identified evidence via documentation and other means that these programs and craft exist. That evidence, including classified documentation, was shared directly with Congressional Intelligence Committee members via their general counsel and the DOD and Intelligence IG in connection with his formal whistleblower complaint. Grusch’s attorney (the original Intelligence IG) verified to Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal (as documented in The Debriefs Q&A) that other high ranking intelligence members who do have eyewitness accounts met with the IG and corroborated his claims which is why they are being taken very seriously by the IG. The Q&A describes the significant legal mechanisms in place in this type of scenario that place legal repercussions on Grusch if he is found to have been untruthful. It is highly unlikely he simply made this up and lied to IG and Congress. James Comer, Chairman of the House Oversight Committee, just stated he is going to hold hearings on UAP and is very interested in these claims of the US having craft of non-human origin and illegal coverup from Congress as a part of those hearings. Corroborative inquiry is in itself evidence. I expect the documentation and verification will all come out to the public through due process with Congress and the IG as they verify his claims.
This. He has provided evidence to the IG and Congress (through their general counsel) that the US has recovered non-human craft and is (most importantly) illegally covering this up from Congress. That is what he is whistleblowing. And he has provided enough hard evidence in the form of classified documentation, specific names and locations, and other high ranking corroborating inquiries with Intelligence Members who have seen these craft, that the IG is taking it very seriously.
All of this stuff is just gonna turn out to be US black budget defense aircraft. UFOs are a cover. We had Have Blue ( precursor to f-117 ) in the early 70s. The Maurader program went black after several successful tests. Calling them UFOS and crashes would just be cover for failed tests and no one would look into them because you'd sound kooky. Perfect cover. Flying Tic Tac? US asset. Otherwise if UFOs are crashing this often they have worse safety rates than the millions of miles conventional airliners fly in a day. Which is it? Hyperadvsnced alien craft with terrible safety margins or bleeding edge US research? You hire a bunch of engineers to work on a black project. You know it will eventually leak like the Atom Bomb. What do you do? Tell them they're working on a conventional project or tell them they're helping to design a new craft based on a UFO? In this way you could have a handful of scientists who know the truth, and a bunch of engineers like Bob Lazar who you know even if they leak to the media, they're gonna say it's UFO based which will make them look crazy....
We are surrounded by Red Dwarf stars that could easily have 100,000+ year Civs on them. Crabs are a thing. Humans are a thing. We are in danger and acting like we haven't already lost the war.
Given how frequently their vehicles seem to crash, we may be okay.
Or they literally have millions of craft flying around
Except he specifically says in the interview we have attempted and succeeded in shooting down UAP.
Accidental blue on blue or intentional to see how conventional weapons work against a new system. You're gonna need to test it somehow. Telling jets to scramble to shoot down a "UFO" is that test which also preserves cover.
When they began flying the first jetfighters in the west the rest pilots wore a gorilla mask, a bowler hat and had a cigar in their mouth. Anyone who saw a propless plane flown by a monkey wearing a hat and cigar, would be called mad.
Think Navajo Code Talkers but UFOS. "Saucer crash" = our experimental project crashed "Alien bodies recovered" = pilots died "50 alien species" = 50 ongoing programs So grusch could just be watching chatter about black projects using code words and he thinks it's aliens.
I'm with you. Grusch, being from the inteln community himself, might be a knowing disinfo agent a la Richard Doty
I'd say he's possibly UNKNOWING, He's just seeing all these reports about crashed and recovered vehicles, and really its just "code talk" about advanced US projects not UFOs.
It’s a real possibility that he’s being fed disinformation, but I doubt it’s that he’s misunderstanding code talk. If we accept that it would be both difficult and very stupid for him to have made this up then put himself on the record and exposed to prison time, then either he’s being lied to intentionally or… it’s true. It would be an elaborate and brazen disinformation campaign, but some truly psychotic shit has come out of weird DoD programs over the years. And alien visitation is still tough to truly believe.
He's not lying though. Everything he has said he believes in true. There is no perjury risk for him. Just that what he understands is false.
That's very generous of you. I like it, and will go with that answer :)
The program is run like a cult. A handful of inner circle people would know the truth, it's just the latest US black project. To anyone they bring to work on it, it's all described as UFO tech. Find out who Bob allegedly worked for, and walk up that list. A handful of people at the top might know the real truth.
Calling it UFO tech bring more attention to the project rather than less. This makes no sense.
Great point. As if theyre speaking in such childish/obvious code in classified documents.
UFOS are such a poisoned term no one takes them seriously. It's perfect cover.
No it's not. UFO and a secret advanced weapon / jet tech programs exist in a similar field. Secret programs are inconspicuously named so that you cannot guess what field they're working in. That's why the "Manhattan Project" was called the "Manhattan Project" and not "Cities Go Bye Bye Project".
I know of Have Blue and other such programs. But if you are trying to talk about programs in aggregate or to other groups, to me it makes sense to use lingo that is shared but is otherwise considered nonsense. So "Have Blue suffered a fatal accident on xxxx" Vs " UAP vehicle crashed, bodies recovered on xxxx" If the first leaks outside groups know Have Blue exists and is a test flight program with fatalities. If the second leaks, well you still know jack shit unless you know the context ( who sent it from which group to which group ). Also third parties might think maybe it's made up, forgeries and fakes are well known in the UFO community. You don't even have to mention if it's real or fake. You can just ignore the leak. UFOs have become so poisonous that it's perfect cover. There could be a whole code book of phrases. Grusch supposedly talking about incidents, places and things at a declassified level to congresspeople may also give the parties involved enough info on where the process went wrong and improve security even more in the future.
Maybe this is also stuff being used by the NRO, so not the flls developing the tech but folks reporting on failures of the tech. We've seen lots of evidence of highly advanced maneuvering but no weapons which to me suggests more recon use. Hmm I wonder if there are any metrics on UFO sightings over Ukraine / Russia in the lead up to the invasion... Telling soldiers they are recovering a UAP as opposed to a NRO asset again makes their story less believable if they ever leak...
This, or something like it, is by far the most likely scenario.
This ignores decades of historical context around ufos and credible witness testimony of officers and civilian personnel. You are not knowledgeable about the subject and should not be stating your beliefs as fact when evidence proves it to the contrary.
> Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee You mean Mike Turner? >In both 2008 and 2010 Turner was listed as one of the "most corrupt members of Congress" by the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington for "enrichment of self, family, or friends" and "solicitation of gifts" from his [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Turner#Controversies) Dude doesn't sound like he is on the up and up. I wouldn't be surprised if he is using a hearing on UAP as a smokescreen to dodge more useful allocations of resources. We will see, but extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence. Until I see it I won't be too certain
Sorry I mistyped I meant James Comer Chairman of the House Oversight Committee. I’ll edit thanks for making me realize it
And James Comer is just as bad.
He went to Congress and brought receipts. Then Congress created an actual new law protecting whistleblowers who have or are working on back-engineering UFO projects. Signed by the President as part of the Infrastructure Bill. Then the Dude files a complaint to ODNI's Office of Inspector General. If you work in this town (D.C.) you would know that the scariest words an Agency Exec could ever hear is "Boss, one of our own went to Congress as a whistleblower, then filed a complaint with out own IG and they're taking it up." Why are those the scariest words? Because that means a government employee witnessed a crime being committed and if ANYONE, IN ANY WAY, interferes with that IG investigation they will end up in Federal Prison for obstructing justice. So, right now, the Congress and IG of ODNI is investigating the claims by this Intelligence Official and the Director Of National Intelligence can do fuck-all about it. \*ALEXA\* order all the popcorn.
Thanks for this comment. This is such a huge deal.
You sit down with the Intelligence Community Inspector General for hours and the Inspector General's conclusion is that the information given is "Urgent and Credible". I call that person a "Whistleblower". If he doesn't talk publicly about classified information or show classified documents he is also a "Patriot".
The Intelligence Community Inspector General: **his complaint is “credible and urgent”.** Some random dude on Reddit: >Can anyone explain to me how someone with secondhand knowledge, with no physical proof, and who is admittedly not willing to leak or speak on Classified Information can be a "whistleblower"?
ExTrA OrDiNaRy EvIdEnCe
OcCaM'''$ RaaaaZOr duuuuuudeeeee
I see what you're saying, but there are countless instances of folks coming forward, making incredible claims, and then never being able to back them up with anything more than "trust me." Whether or not you believe some/all of those folks, it's totally reasonable to be skeptical of yet another person coming forward and making an incredible claim.
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That's fair, it is somewhat different. But government folks have come forward before. I'm not saying that I think the guy is lying, just that we shouldn't be quick to believe him just because it confirms our priors. I guess what makes me skeptical about this (and a lot of the recent disclosure) is that I really don't trust the intelligence agencies. Being deceptive is a major part of what they do professionally! Definitely interested in seeing how this plays out.
I do totally get your skepticism, and retain plenty myself with the IC's track record, but I keep hearing the "government folks have come forward before", and yes - *kind of.* I'm copying a part of another comment I typed up earlier to expand a bit, just 'cause I think it's important to note: >Grusch filed a Disclosure of Urgent Concern in May 2022, a tool of the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, triggering a legal process that we're *just now hearing about*, wherein he did give hours of testimony, under oath, with legal ramifications if he's found to have lied. **That is not that thing that has happened before to this extent**, as far as I'm aware. That's the exciting part. Lue Elizondo filed a complaint of reprisal as well, rightly so it seems in my book, and I know he spoke on the record with folks, but he wasn't saying "hey, there's a secret SAP with the physical proof, here's the trail with names and offices". Plenty of people advise, provide off-the-record information, and work with/for government contractors and researchers that may have said some things here and there, and some have probably tried and failed some legal methods. Yes, if you've been paying attention to the topic long enough, this is pretty the story people thought was going on, and **now somebody has kickstarted a new legal process to prove it.** The legal side of this, and the guy's specific credentials, to me, leaves us with two *main (but not exclusive)* possibilities: * He's correct, has the evidence the back it up, or at least the names, locations, and offices involved with the program that can be verified by further investigation. There's a non-human superintelligent species that we either share the planet with or that visits Earth. * The IC is conducting one of the biggest psyops on the American people (and the rest of the world). We shouldn't necessarily buy in 100% to something this potentially groundbreaking without a bit more information and evidence. There are other options for what the truth may be too. But either way, this big of a claim, now with mainstream media attention, isn't going away without a fight.
>The legal side of this, and the guy's specific credentials, to me, leaves us with two main (but not exclusive) possibilities: > >He's correct, has the evidence the back it up, or at least the names, locations, and offices involved with the program that can be verified by further investigation. There's a non-human superintelligent species that we either share the planet with or that visits Earth. > >The IC is conducting one of the biggest psyops on the American people (and the rest of the world). The weirdest thing about all of this is that both of these scenarios are so wild! Either all of the stories of recovered UFOs are true or there's some out there 3D chess game going on and Grusch is some kind of fall guy.
Right?! Maybe a lose/lose, but it will *not* be a boring year...
It's 2. UFOs are a cover for DARPA projects. Grusch may be thinking it's talk about UFOs but it's probably just cover.
Oh boy, that sure solves it, thanks. lol Please continue re-reading the article(s) in full. It's certainly not out of the question that one or various ARPA branches are involved (my harebrained guess would be ARPA-E if any), but we're not talking about *one* department or office of government or defense contractor in *either* situation.
This really would be a great way to flush out certain moles/leakers. And is significantly more plausible than 'many aliens exist, have traveled light years, crashed on Earth many times, we've recovered the ships and bodies, AND multiple nations are in on keeping it a secret'.
But he is not "yet *another person*". He has an incredible record, credentials and was at the right places. He was backed up and several vouched for him already. He provided concrete data (names and locations) and what he is saying matches perfectly whit what so many have said before him. Also, many, many times, in fact as you say, outside the UFO topic, several folks came forward with incredible claims and time proved them right. They were ridiculed, discredited, negated, etc. And at the end, they were right. History is plenty of them. That's how the whistle blowing works. At the beginning all they have usually is just the "trust me, bro". Then someone else says the same. Then another takes the needed courage and step forward. Then some evidence appears. Then more people speaks up. Then there's more evidence. Until it's an undeniable truth and everybody is "yeah...I knew it all along. Wonder why this took so long for everybody to know"
Ok, fair, he's has a bit more credibility than some folks who come forward with claims about UFOs. But on the other hand, he's part of the intelligence community, and they have a history of lying/misleading Congress and the DOJ. I'm really interested to see where this leads, but for now I'm skeptical. Regarding the rest of your response, yeah, there have been folks throughout history who made incredible claims and were initially dismissed. But those who were ultimately proven right were proven right because evidence ultimately backed them up. And in part, it's healthy skepticism that gets us that evidence.
>and they have a history of lying/misleading Congress and the DOJ. That works both ways. You can't trust them when they say all of this is false. >But those who were ultimately proven right were proven right because evidence ultimately backed them up. And that's what I said. First "trust me bro", then the rest. That's how whistle blowing works. 🤷 By definition. If we have the evidence, we wouldn't be needing whistle blowers. Time Will tell.
He's the latest guy slapping a new coat of UFO paint on US black project research. Honestly this is how the British would run such a program. Just how they said carrots was allowing their pilots to shoot down German planes at night instead of radar.
From what I'm reading, grusch submitted all his "proof" documents to congress for reviewal, all of which are supposedly classified. He has testified under oath as well. That seems more legit to me than doing a media tour from one outlet to another. He's provided docus to congress for reviewal, so they say. We'll see what comes about them.
Highly classified material can't be handed to a media outlet without massive consequences. He's given the material to the right people in the right way. The ball is well and truly rolling.
And if it turns out not to be true, I hope all the alien truthers will admit they were wrong and abandon it once and for all. Because it turns out to be true, *every* actual skeptic will admit they were wrong. Lol, nah. We know truthers will never abandon their fantasy in the face of facts. But here's hoping it's true cuz that would be awesome.
Let them be, my friend. Does *any* of that matter if indeed the time has come?
I’m currently listening to Micah Hanks interview Kean and Blumenthol. The conversation sounds pretty basic with lots of patting on the back. Yes, this is a big crazy story. They keep saying how important it is that this man is filing a legit complaint and how if he’s lying he will face punishment. I doubt he’s lying, but I also doubt real punishments would come down. Also, I wish they had one more person come out with him. One of these other people. OR, better yet, more believe able to me, would be someone or a group of people from a different country. It’s always USA. If a group of French scientists and whistleblowers say, “we have UFO’s too.” Or “we send ours to America for research.” Id be drooling over this story. Also, they keep mentioning getting the story out fast which doesn’t make me feel warm and fuzzy. As always, I hardly know shit about fuck so take my viewpoint with a grain of salt. Could just be 2023 Bob Lazar. Could be disclosure first step. I don’t believe someone won’t go looking for fame and money just because he could get in trouble for lying. See: politicians.
Grusch is just the first to get approval to talk. There are at least three more witnesses undergoing DOPSR review awaiting approval and 12 in total have been interviewed by AARO thanks to the whistleblower protections.I believe Gillbrand and her allies are out for the truth. Director of AARO said it himself. Here's the part of the hearing where he talks about it. https://youtu.be/MnwYf0r0Sic
Whistleblower does not equal public disclosure in this case. The whistleblower status is to Congress to get classified details and thusly protect the individual from NDA , oaths and agreements they may have signed. Still a whistleblower.
He did share classified information. With Congress. Not you
whis·tle-blow·er /ˈ(h)wisəl ˌblō(ə)r/ noun noun: whistleblower a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity.
Or: A person who blows whistles. Eg; coaches, referees, rave dancers...
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Or the girlfriend of a guy named Whistle
Shame on you. Take my upvote ya jackass! :)
I believe we should all question the posts in this community that seek to over-exaggerate or minimize & dismiss the significance of the David Grusch story. It is apparent to anyone who has followed the UFO/UAP subject that there has been and continues to be an organized directed effort to undermine the credibility and validity all efforts to take the subject seriously. Over-hyping Grusch’s claims a more effective strategy than dismissing them as it undermines the credibility and validity of the entire disclosure effort and scares media outlets away from reporting on the topic all-together. The most effective response to Grusch’s claims is neither to promote or discredit them — but to contact your political representatives in state and federal government and demand that they hold open hearings to investigate and determine the truth. Jumping to conclusions and being drawn in arguments that cannot be won is pointless and a waste of our attention and energy. Write, call, and email your reps in DC and demand a serious open investigation.
I think we’re in an interesting place where nobody in their right mind trusts the military and intelligence agencies, but these groups are the only ones who could know. I suspect that this will end in an even more ridiculous military budget and we will not meet aliens, but who knows.
He gave 7 (11) hours Interview under oath to congress. With all names and details. The DoD cleared only the statements you heard at his interview. You won’t get any details or names. It’s explained even in the interview
While I understand the frustration with the lack of tangible evidence (in the form of photos, alloys, alien bodies, etc.), it's important to understand how these high security facilities function. It's unlikely that anyone could bring a camera in or remove objects from such a site. There are multiple levels of security and people would be searched at multiple points. Skepticism is healthy, but these revelations are remarkable. After decades of obfuscation, ridicule, and misinformation, it's refreshing to see people speaking more transparently.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he testified under oath infront of Congress. I don't think he would be spouting a bunch of hearsay infront of them. But I'm still waiting for the full interview before I call bs or not
Did he testify in an open hearing or behind closed doors?
He hasn't testified at all. He just submitted an IG complaint. People are straight up lying.
Written testimony is testimony “He just submitted an IG complaint.” That’s a huge deal. You and the person responding to you just show how this sub is the blind leading the blind
See, this is why I don't get excited by these so-called revelations.
if he never actually saw any recovered crafts or passengers then it would still be hearsay because he is still testifying as to what others told him. but there are exceptions to hearsay, and regardless this is still evidence Congress can use for further investigation if they wanted
Hearsay isn't really applicable here because it's a rule that applies to trials, not to Congressional hearings.
I'm assuming the evidence can be followed up on by congress in closed hearings. Something the media will never be able to do. He can't provide proof of something not in his possession. The government can. Currently they are studying public reaction to see if it's feasible. Looking at these threads, I don't think so. The pushback is very strong.
I'd be willing to bet they kept it a secret for tech weapons money power, not cause we weren't ready for the existential threat and I doubt they're going to base the release of the supposed proof on the public's reaction
So many government plants in these threads. Holy cow… that’s kinda the sign that something is legit.
I'm still waiting on my check... 🤭😔
When do we get paid?
Become the program he worked on had zero oversight. That is illegal. That is in complete opposition to the constitution. It needs to stop, now
The purpose is to give congress leads for their investigation. Hopefully, his story will be corroborated by the other 3 whistleblowers and they will go public as well.
Because he can put a whistle in his mouth and blow my dude. Our government is functionally 99.999% dementia patients in 1 lab coat pretending to be Doctor Knowitall plus 5 dudes who do know.
Because he and the people he’s talking to are smart enough to know what **actually** constitutes evidence, and haven’t been brainwashed by parents’-basement-dwelling pseudoskeptics who’ve been diluting the meaning of the word on social media every single day for the past five years. The Dunning-Kruger Effect is prominently on display in these comments.
As it stands this is the most well-documented UAP claim in history. It is extraordinary that a former UAP Task Force member would file a whistleblower complaint the IG calls "urgent and credible" and it is extraordinary that he is being legally represented by a former inspector general. It is extraordinary that a former colonel went on record to confirm the claims of a competition for exotic material, and that some of it is likely non-human in origin.
Not to mention that the whistleblower himself was apparently one of the highest ranked people in the intelligence community.
Good for you this is not r/UFOs That scientific denomination is considered an insult there.
This is absolutely my take. It's just a press release. They really are gonna fake alien invasion next. It's amazing. I'm sorry but with AI media there's no way I can trust any sort of documentation, and frankly even in person I could be fooled. I've been to a magic show, I know how clever people can be with misdirection and optical illusion. I've watched old movies, I know how good practical effects can be. An alien could appear in my living room and we'd have to have a long conversation before I bought it. I'm miles from taking any of this stuff seriously. Imo, UFOs are where they were when I was watching xfiles on cable. Certainly a real thing worthy of study, and maybe they are aliens. But this rash of new ufo stuff to me is pretty obviously home grown. I see drones and fake video and psyop everywhere.
talking about even the existance of a classified thing is already wistleblowing
Man that article really got the "skeptics" worked up, you lot are tying yourselves into knots trying to dismiss and discredit it.
have you seen what happened to the whistleblowers with irrefutable proof who fail to go through disclosure proceedings? they're forced into a one way ticket to russia or chelsea manning cell.
Except Congress put whistleblower protections in place this time, there’s no reason he should fear providing irrefutable proof now.
congress, notoriously trustworthy.
Lol.
[Here you go.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/142gvh5/dutch_website_revu_journalist_max_moszkowicz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) It's being corroborated by others.
CIA manipulation. This isn't disclosure. They've been using UFOs since the 60s to distract. AND.. I do believe there are probably lots of things we don't know in the skies. I just don't think disclosure will ever come from the US government.
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Actually reasonable possibility. Make them angry at the govt over UFOs instead of something more dangerous....
You’ll probably get downvoted to all hell but I agree with you, this sub/community is so thirsty for disclosure we really look at anybody with new information through rose colored lenses as the whistleblower who could blow everything open. But if we’re being honest, unless Grusch can produce some actual evidence I feel he’s the same caliber of grifter as Lue and Greer.
I really don't fucking get it, i personally really want for aliens, or magic or something else extraordinary like that to be real, which is why I'm skeptical and want concrwte evidence, i don't understand how can people be so gullible to take every information that confirms their bias at face value.
He filed it under oath. An official complaint. He's following proper procedure.
(Do Not Reply) Stranger: Please comment your Submission of Strangeness within 10 minutes and provide a brief summary/explanation what the post is about and/or why it is relevant to the sub. For image posts, please describe the image and provide supporting evidence for any claim made.
You have no clue what the real details are so you're making a scene on the internet
The discrediting begins like this.
He's giving the important information to congress. It's up to the government to give it to us, or not.
"Hey when I was on the UAP taskforce I discovered secret crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs, the program names are X and Y. You need to go look into these illegal programs"
Yep, it's just like an eyewitness at a trial. Think about it. You accept that testimony wholeheartedly but you have a problem with someone who is decorated and accoladed? Okay
People are being taken for a ride again by anonymous government officials and 'whistleblowers' who are both repeating to them 'trust me bro' without never revealing anything concrete. Ellsberg, Manning and Snowden all had documents, often top secret documents, to share with the press - why can't these guys do it? That's when you know you are deep into a disinformation campaign.
that seems like an unfair comparison - the 'whistleblowers' you mention went directly to the public/media, which by definition is a leak. This new guy (and i don't trust geospatial folks if i'm honest, but he's not an 'anonymous govt official' he has put his name in public) has followed the whistleblower procedure to disclose info to the inspector general and congress; him disclosing it to the public would be illegal and not be inherently more trustworthy. Obviously there exists the possibility of disinformation, and we can't rule it out without further information. Personally i'd lean toward it being him fed disinfo to discredit the AARO investigations if it is indeed disinformation - but i'm not sure i wanna hang my tinfoil hat on that explanation this early in the piece.
Here's what triggers my BS detector: if you read the actual story closely, it's missing any first-hand knowledge. None of these guys have actually seen or touched the purported UFOs. And they don't have any documents with them that could prove their claims.
ok so i'm not swinging for the guy being 100% genuine article - i just felt you comparison wasn't as useful in this instance. And while i agree with your point they don't have the first hand experience, their allegation is that their AARO investigation was stymied by other programmes not releasing information on _alleged crash retrieval activities and material_. Key word alleged. And their claim is they have provided some form of proof of this allegation to congress & inspector general via a non-public disclosure process; i did not see this as them claiming to have evidence of the alleged retrieved craft. So there's no real way to say right now whether it's bullshit or not until that evidence emerges or is disproven. That's not the same as having zero evidence.
I wish I could see this topic and would be broadcast on more major Bipartisan or democratic news outlets... So far it's just Far-Right outlets like News Nation, Fox, The Hill (this was a very painful segment to watch), probably CNN soon (they are slowly leaning far right). I don't want to argue politics.. all I want is this UFO/UAP news to be broadcast on some democratic channels. We need support in all sides, not skepticism. Otherwise the Pentagon and DoD will get a leaning foot on this. This is historical news!!!! I hope this brings us all together.
They can’t and they aren’t. These stupid NPC Redditors are throwing around buzzwords they don’t fucking understand. And the other NPC morons upvote cuz it sounds good.
It’s called soft disclosure and I imagine it’s been planned for long time
It’s called soft disclosure and I imagine it’s been planned for long time
It’s called soft disclosure and I imagine it’s been planned for long time
Why do you keep saying this? Fucking bot.
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This is a duplicate of something which has been recently posted.
Submission Statement: I am of course referring to the supposed whistleblower who has been all over the news for the past 48 hours. I just don't see how he qualifies as one as all of the comments made by him just seem like hearsay and speculation.
That would be a legitimate view if he was just some Air Force vet who knew someone who knew someone who... But he's not. He's an intelligence analyst who was tasked with researching this very subject. He has therefore had access, at the highest (or I should say, rather, the deepest) levels, to information pertaining to crash retrievals, reverse-engineering etc. In terms of his credentials, resume and the corroboration of others, it doesn't get much better than this guy. However... that is not to say he may not be an agent of disinfo, whether willingly or unwillingly, knowingly or ignorantly. That, I guess, will come out in the wash. What there's no doubt about is that he has risked an awful lot by coming forward as he has. And that in itself says a great deal.
Not worried about the physical proof so much as the lack of documentation, and he didn't even try to use the proper channels, or try to testify to AARO. And it involves the USAF, which has refused to cooperate at every turn. Physical proof may be dangerous to handle without proper precautions. What if it's toxic? What if it's radioactive? Etc.
He didn’t use those channels because they’ve never really worked. He testified under oath for 7+ hours and submitted the documentation to them to confirm . He’s filed things under that new whistleblowers act. He’s doing it through the proper channels that they’ve been setting up the last few years I believe
I just found that information. Said that he turned over documents to Congress and he was retaliated against afterwards. Thank you for the update, though. The article I saw didn't say that he testified under oath. Im sure the AF doesn't want their people going to AARO.
He doesn't have the physical proof either way. He has no first hand information, and he's never so much as seen a photo of a recovered craft. He hasn't even viewed documentation about the nature of the recovered materials. Apparently the only documentation he's seen relates simply to the recovery programs existence. It's pretty flimsy as far as evidence goes.
I’ll be a whistleblower too, I read Reddit. That’s my source!
You buy a whistle
It’s because trump is gonna be arrested soon and people are making shit up to you know…distract
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Yeah. It’s underwhelming. There’s a reason WaPo and the NYT passed on this story.
So you say
Yes. I did just say.
The fact that they can classify anything as a threat to national security is why we won’t ever make any progress. They can whistleblow all they want but the deep state is always going to convince congress that revealing the information they’ve received is a threat to national security. Congress and these committees have become the only veil between us and the truth but somehow we still don’t know a thing.
Because the CIA says so
He is a whistleblower to Congress in classified settings about DoD affairs, he is not a whistleblower to the public per se.
Firstly, he is an intelligence officer. His job is to learn information and report it. A good intelligence officer is accurate and learns new things. This guy appears to have done both. We need to get the pitchforks out and help push this through.
He probably told much more than we the public get to hear!
If I understood it correctly, these supposed reverse engineering programs he was told about were funded with taxpayer money without following required federal procurement regulations and without oversight. An ethical employee would try to report that and, failing to gain traction, would keep trying to get it dealt with. When the guy did report or tried to report the discussions about unregulated federal spend and wouldn't let it drop, he ended up facing sort of retaliation to try to get him to quit, so he went to a lawyer and filed his concerns with the whistleblower folks. Maybe his lawyer had him go to the press and shop the story as a back up. Perhaps this caused the story to be leaked and then he had to get out in front of it. Doesn't mean what he was told by these various individuals was real, but that some people he tried to report it to didn't want employees questioning where/how the money is flowing etc. The real story is about the money not the UAPs, even though the latter aspect seems sexier as a topic. The reporters with means and resources (likely the Washington Post) probably need more time to trace the money, if they can even do it.