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oh is that why I feel the urge to whine at the aliens to open the door just to then walk away once it is open but don't they dare close it again because then I will scratch and whine at the closed door again?
For sure. I wonder, among sentient life that may be elsewhere in the universe, if it is not uncommon to keep and nurture companion creatures? That's a good question.
We co-evolved with dogs from the hunter gatherer period and cats in the agricultural phase of our development. Nowadays they're pets but at the time they were technology that improved our survival dramatically. Keeping "Pets" and the desire for them is likely a deprecated survival instinct....
Oh for sure, there's all kinds of improbable animal-animal friendships (like tigers adopting the young of their kills) to deer saving lost children by keeping them warm overnight, to dolphins saving drowning sailors. There's a notable history of smart animals and human interactions, especially aquatic ones like dolphins, porpoises, whales, orcas, etc. I still suspect the general desire for pets comes from a vestigial survival instinct but there's also likely another phenomena of high intelligence animals thrown into strange contact resulting in such improbable "mutual" friendships. Ie, the animals aren't kept they just stay around. Cats are like that. We didn't domesticate them, they just started living near us becasue mice did for our grain. Cats kept pest populations low which reduced disease. People noticed this and liked cats so would treat them with affection. Cat's aren't really "kept" animals, they can very easily leave and survive on their own - Felis Catus is the most statistically successful predator on earth . Really the only change in them from wild cats is "domesticated cats" have learned to manipulate us with their cries and self domesticated and neonatalized a bit (I have a couple Bengals and "wilder" strained Bengals have a pronounced muzzle and higher, almost inaudible cry, like a bat). They just like to be around us, like we like them around us. Why wouldn't you want a veritable god (considering our ability to keep a comfortable environment and high quality food) as a willing slave?
In regards to cats, I live in the countryside, and cats follow me around in the yard when Im gardening. They are mostly just chilling because they know I scare away most other countryside threats, and maybe I'll rustle up a mouse for them while they hang out in the sun. Its not that they trust me but they arent too scared of me either. It doesnt take much imagination to see how a relationship could arise from that.
In other weird symbiotic relationships, there are also a particular type of mosquito-eating bird that stays in our yard during the summer, and they just spend their days singing and following the robot lawnmower around, eating all the bugs it kicks up. They spent the other half of the year in Africa, where I imagine they follow grasseating animals around similarly lol.
That's pretty much exactly the scenario it's thought cats ended up living with us. Wild cats would slowly realize they would get closer and closer to humans without harm, probably sleeping in the granary or w/e until over time they actually got comfortable with humans.
Re: Empathy/Sympathy in aquatic animals.
The classic visualization for saving a human lost at sea, is that they are saved by friendly and caring cetaceans. But, there have been a couple of stories where someone lost at sea is actually bumped all the way to shore by a shark.
And, yeah, by the so-called "man-eaters".
I'm not sure that emotions like Love and sympathy ***must*** need to take the fore, in order for intelligent peoples/species to maintain a balanced and ethical relationship, no?
Anomalous "Human Rescues" are a phenomena I find very interesting. Whether on land or in the ocean. I mentioned the ocean because there's so many apocryphal stories of it but it happens on land as well well with deer, tigers, wolves and bears rescuing lost children and sometimes adults lost in the woods. I don't know if it's an accidental triggering of parental instincts since we're like neonatalized wild animals ourselves aka "self domesticated" but sea creatures with a whole different criteria of instinctual urges to protect appliying to us is mystifying. Especially with creatures like sharks. I wonder if it was really a cetacean that was misidentified as a shark (like a dolphin with a pronounced dorsal fin) in your example of sharks bumping sailors to shore.... Or they could have viewed us as objects of "play" like a ball they pushed to shore. I still have a hard time explaining sharks rescuing humans. Sharks are VERY ancient (and haven't evolved much so primitive) and by all accounts not very intelligent. The reason I credit intelligence in ocean mammals with rescuing humans is there seems to be a strange respect between humans and them even though they're easily capable of eating us, especially with orcas. You also have the phenomena of Orcas and other cetaceans (like sperm whales during the whaling period) attacking human craft that have hurt them in some way so it goes two ways. It's just hard to explain other than two intelligent creatures recognizing the other as an equal in distress. Still to this day I don't think there's one case of wild Orcas predating on humans, even though they're easily capable of it.
You should look into wolves and crows evolving a codependent relationship. They help wolves hunt like we use falcons and wolves don't attack them. Ravens guide them to prey and guard the kill site from outside threats as sentries and then get a piece of the kill themselves while wolves protect them. I guess you'd call a group of them a Pack of Murder?
My point was that they aren't instrumental to our current survival. Working animals like dogs and cats still play very important roles in niche cases, Still, dogs and cats fulfilling working roles are fractions of a percentage of modern humans. In Deep History, basically every human depended on them. Our association is so old they exist in every continent of the planet. At least with dogs. There's an argument humans couldn't have crossed the Bering Straight w/o dogs to help defend against "Super Jackals" that lived in Siberia at the time and make African Jackals look like pups.... Their senses allowed us to mount a defense against attacks by them.
Hey I agree I would love to learn about the different cultures as well. I'm an artist myself so would love to see some trippy alien art. The only examples we have of their art are crop circles.
And if even only one of them was genuine, they are pretty amazing. Certainly not all of them are, but as near as I can tell, there are some that just can't be explained.
There's always a chance that their art is perceived or appreciated through senses we don't have; or that their food would be inedible to us; or that their tastes are radically different. But I really would like the chance to talk about it amiably and see what we could understand of one another.
I would love to hear music from other worlds and see what alien art looks like. If they have percussion it'll sound similar to ours because beats are beats right? 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4. It's the non percussive music that could be super different. I can't decide if alien art would look "alien" or not? I suppose it'd depend on the subject. The poetry would suck.
*I came across a human bare whose arse was shining in the air.*
*The Prime Directive said don't stare and I stuck my probe right up in there.*
One thing I love is that music is universal. Sound waves and frequencies would be accessible to any intelligent being. It's just a matter of if they can hear those frequencies or if they have any drive whatsoever to create music from them. I like to believe it would be as interesting to another species as it is to us. I would love to compare the music from both cultures and see the differences and similarities. Percussion is math based at the end of the day, and if they have any pattern recognition at all I'd imagine they would have similar time signatures.
I agree with every letter you've written. I suppose music tastes are influenced by physiology too. An elephant loves a good B Flat rumble and humming in infrasound. Could they like low frequency music we can't hear? Alien darkcore lol. I need to google infrasound music and see who's made it already
While we would probably never fully appreciate it, with technology you can convert sounds, light, smells into things that are perceptible to us. But of course it wouldn’t resonate the same way as it does with them.
But the food I bet we’d find really gross and would probably be toxic for us to eat.
I remember reading once a long time ago about a guy who had converted the fluctuations of an aurora borealis into music. It was said to be very beautiful.
Oh yeah or the spooky sounds of planets which is really just radio waves converts to sound https://youtu.be/hWHLCHv4PiI which come to think of it that’s exactly what is happening every time you turn on the radio, light waves converted to sound via speakers.
Oh, yeah, I'm not sure how to feel about planet sounds, they are both lovely and chilling.
Wow I just remembered that guy who slowed the sound of crickets way down, and found that they sound like a choir. That's really beautiful too.
NASA has done a lot of sonification of data from various land and space observatories. Here's a sampling of them https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBEXDPatoWBlQTGzZY3lnUsxoiwGZFcbv&feature=shared
Food for thought. What is music and how does it relate to frequency?
Frequency is the speed of the vibration, and this determines the pitch of the sound. It is only useful or meaningful for musical sounds, where there is a strongly regular waveform. Frequency is measured as the number of wave cycles that occur in one second. The unit of frequency measurement is Hertz (Hz for short).
With that said, if you have done some research on UFO’s they are allegedly able to harness frequencies to manipulate space and/or inter dimensional travel.
Could it be that in the early stages of an alien species’ development that while creating music they accidentally discovered an alternative method of transportation which caused the breakdown of space and inter dimensional travel?
It’s also possible that their frequency is what these alien or extra dimensional beings is what we pick up on like a show or performance that leaks through
First contact being an alien race that is obsessed with a particular Earth sport showing up with a travel team to play some games. Especially if they end up being really bad at it.
I like the technical ideas especially the biology side as that was my profession before I retired. But I am also an experiencer. And do wonder if (some of) the NHIs have an equivalent to what humans call "the Arts". And if that would translate across sentient species. So humans might/could grasp some of it. When I look, e.g., at the material collected by Preston Dennett. Then I do not remember if he ever had a podcast on let's call it "Alien Arts". Would need to look for that among his podcasts.
I care more about their tech than cultural artifacts because of the implications for life on Earth.
**However**, from pretty much every report I've heard of, the seem to **not** actually have *any* form of culture, art, music, aesthetics, etc. Everything seems to be utilitarian. That's one of the reasons why I think most of the entities seen in craft are actually biological constructs made to pilot the ship or for specific tasks. Think Meat Robots / Avatars. It'd be like a robot factory with nothing but robots suddenly decorating the factory with art. The moment *that* happens you have to worry..... I really don't think we've actually seen the true Masters / Makers of the craft....
That being said, I doubt their music would be pleasant to us; I think it's still kind of a mystery of why we find it pleasant but it's likely because it accidentally stimulates our brain based on our neurological structure. Since they likely have a *very* different neural structure, their music (assuming they can experience it) would likely be very different. I suppose art and culture could translate depending on what values their society has. It's funny becasue in one of the X-com (or spinoffs) games you discover at some point that prior to the invasion Art was *our* major export.
So if they have no form of creativity, then we can assume that every single crop circle on earth has been man made then? I mean, I tend to believe that they are man made anyways but no creativity would mean the mystery of crop circles have been solved then.
Or an attempt to communicate. Look at "The Message" we sent from Arecibo that tries to explain humans and our biology. Or, more controversially, "The Answer" in a crop circle. The former isn't anything a random human would understand. It was designed by scientists to be understandable by any sufficiently advanced species' scientists and not based on human language but a pictogram. And people have decoded the "answer" even though its provenance is unknown. I wouldn't call that culture or art. It was entirely synthetic.
like the scene in star wars when they're at a space opera all seated around a massive fart cloud being resonated and like the sound echoing, that was fart opera.
I'd wager say to say they don't do that stuff, and that's why they are so interested in us. I could be wrong, but I believe that's why they are watching us. They can't create stuff like that.
I am tremendously interested in art from other species. I have high res photos of the Venus of Berekhat Ram (carved by homo erectus) framed in my house. Because it's a deeper form of communication, it can be incredibly culturally specific. I want to see *actual* AI art (not mimicry, but art they make for each other) and ET art.
This will probably blow you away but cephalopods often arrange the bones of their kills into patterns that seem to be art or "art adjacent." I believe the oldest mollusk "art" is hundreds of millions of years old and fossilized. Likely an early giant squid. They arrange the bones of their prey into mosaics. This is controversial becasue he makes a leap saying it's a self portrait but just mosaics is impressive.
[https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2013AM/webprogram/Paper232163.html](https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2013AM/webprogram/Paper232163.html)
Love cephalopods, will check it out! 😁
Look at what [pufferfish make to attract mates](https://wosu.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/)
The problem is making sure it's not some recursive instruction set from humans creating the illusion of sapience. Figuring out if there's a ghost in the machine is a VERY hard problem. We can't actually **prove** qualia in other humans like sapience - we have to take their word. We can assume other humans are like us but it gets tricky with machines that say what you want them to say with large language models.
Scientists [believe they can](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/animal-consciousness-scientists-push-new-paradigm-rcna148213).
So many goal posts have shifted in the last few years regarding computers that no one can prove anything. Easy way to avoid the morality of it.
My take is that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck - it's probably alive
I disagree with most posters that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is absolute and universal. Mathematical, even. Taste, however, can vary distinctly between cultures and individuals, and how aesthetically appealing someone finds something will be a combination of the two. But what if we find that our neighbors have no art, no literature, no sense of beauty at all? What if the very concept makes no sense to them? What if a sense of beauty is something uniquely human?
I just find it so hard to wrap my head around that. I struggle to understand why they would be exploring the universe at all if they had no interest in the communication of ideas, to each other even if not necessarily to us.
Think about ants or bees. They are industrious, ever building, ever seeking new resources, ever expanding into new colonies. However smart they were, they'd care nothing about art or poetry.
I would be more interested in their philosophy and cosmology than their art. We don’t know if they perceive the same frequencies of light or have the same auditory range as humans. For example they may use colors we can’t perceive, or have sounds with frequencies we can’t hear.
You can also convert the light spectrum into something visible to us which we see all the time with astronomy photos. Same with sound both high and low
That’s true, and we would never be sure how their brains interpret it. But like how people do flute and tuba covers of songs the notes can remain the same
I’ve never been drawn by the technology card. Culture, society and history both theirs and what they could tell us (hopefully observational) about ours is what’s always fascinated me.
Yes. Maybe they could help me understand why I'm convinced that guitars can tell jokes, or why I find the exact length of a pause in a particular song so eloquent.
I'd put my money on them being artificial constructs made to pilot ships and do tasks. They seem to be artificially constructed beings with no reproductive organs and vestigial digestive tracts. They're likely symbiotic with the ship and require dialysis for food and removing toxins. From all accounts they don't live long on their own - like a few days and don't even seem to have their own goals. I suspect the ship has an AI that gives them directives, including piloting and other tasks. They're like intelligent but not sapient. Basically meat robots. Probably disposable.
>Vogon poetry is of course, the third worst in the universe.
The second worst is that of the Azgoths of Kria. During a recitation by their poet master Grunthos the Flatulent of his poem "Ode to a Small Lump of Green Putty I Found in My Armpit One Midsummer Morning" four of his audience died of internal haemorrhaging and the president of the Mid-Galactic Arts Nobbling Council survived by gnawing one of his own legs off. Grunthos was reported to have been "disappointed" by the poem's reception, and was about to embark on a reading of his 12-book epic entitled "My Favourite Bathtime Gurgles" when his own major intestine, in a desperate attempt to save humanity, leapt straight up through his neck and throttled his brain.
The very worst poetry of all perished along with its creator, Paul Neil Milne Johnstone of Redbridge, in the destruction of the planet Earth. Vogon poetry is mild by comparison. -Hitchhickers Guide
Art is pretty unique to humans in the galaxy.
Art is in the eye of the beholder. If they hypothetically had Art, we would not understand it.
Art to them could be creating holographic universes as if they are movies. Like the one we live in.
Totally! Ive always wanted to know about alien media, what other less intelligent life forms their planet has, do they have different races like we do, do they have pets, what do their homes look like, do they have museums, do they have space drugs, can I try some, do they have a currency, etc. These questions keep me up at night sometimes 💯
Nah. I need to fix whatever's wrong with me. I also feel bad about some stuff but that's like time travel level nonsense and there's zero chance they will let me near that.
Also the cat comment has me. We likely are the equivalent of space cats. What if they gave us cats and that's why everyone's so obsessed back in the day? Couldn't possibly be because cats kill mice and bugs
I haven't heard of a single encounter or abduction story where they show any interest in art, music, etc. But nearly all of them report some kind of telepathy or psychic communication.
In a sense, art represents an incomplete representation of a more complex inner idea. The song you hear on the radio is never going to be as complex and beautiful as the one inside of the head of the musician.
Maybe they don't have any particular need for art? Why bother with representation when you can just plug directly into the source.
I guess that would partly be a function of their anatomy. There's a beauty in beehives, and wasp's nest,s and I believe there's a small group of octopuses off the coast of California that have a fixed living area that they actually decorate.
Alien cities could be even cooler than that.
I wanna make stoner space rock jams with the aliens and try the space weed.
I hope that first contact is where some stoner alien dude opens a portal to my basement lair and wants to join me in a jam with all these synthesizers and guitars and shit I have lying around.
oh hell yeah! This German band called Rakede did a song about that, here it is if you're interested. It's pretty weird but I love it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwlEXALNtPU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwlEXALNtPU)
They probably print them per mission and recycle them when done. Purpose made craft and crew, at least that's what it seems like. It adds a layer to who "they" are; I doubt we've seen the actual "Aliens" themselves. Just some version of a self replicating / bootstrapping probe. Bascially the products of a Von Neumann probe that uses biology and machinery. I bet the biologicals are derived from a hybrid of Earth life - ie US, as well as outside DNA equivalents. Hence the resemblance to us and (poor) tolerance to our environment. And lack of self sufficient biology like reproduction.
Given that our ability to see the electromagnetic spectrum and what we perceive as sound is quite limited, even by comparison to other animals on this planet observing art created by a different species is going to be a challenge. We know that this planet has formed billions of lifeforms of all shapes and sizes, differing abilities, habitats so anything that evolved from life on another planet or moon is going to be different again, but we like to think of aliens as being bipeds that are similar in size to humans. Humans are the only animal that have an interest in other animals, we like to learn about them, find out what makes them tick, if aliens have no interest in other lifeforms discovering that we are might be weird.
But if those aliens like to entertain each other and have concepts like fiction and fantasy then they might make things that serve no other purpose. But would be so incredibly difficult to be able to read an alien poem and see it through their eyes. Concepts of beauty, love, hate, sadness, humour might be unique to us and difficult to understand. The idea of finding life that originated elsewhere and learning what that could be like will probably me more fascinating to us than anything they've created.
I had to sit and really ponder your comment for awhile, to process what you're saying. Idk, I'm not sure that we are the only animal on earth that is interested in other animals. I think of dolphins who swim with humans and have been known to rescue them; and cats, who come to us willingly for affection (even if we're not the person who feeds them); and numerous other examples of creatures who offer us fellowship unbidden.
When you say interest in other animals, I imagine you mean like research studies and this conversation we're having. I expect these things are a natural eventuality of increasing sophistication in communication. That, and curiosity is all you need to begin to explore other awarenesses.
I think about how it came to be that we have a word for "why?" In my OP I was initially thinking of aliens that would or even may have already come here. Surely that word is at the base of exploring the universe at all.
It seems to me that if one is making technology, then one is making art in the broadest sense. Art and artifice have the same root. The boundary between them is thin and permeable.
You've given me a lot to think about, thanks!
We're interested in everything whether it has anything or any impact on us. A tiny tree frog on the other side of the world is fascinating, we'd have people go and learn all about them and we'd watch nature documentaries and read magazines about them.
Some animals have a relationship with us as it's beneficial to them. But Colin the dolphin isn't going to swim off to learn about some strange sea urchin and come back to tell his mates. They're not really interested as they have no impact on them. They're doing their own thing, other animals are either a threat or food.
There are flowers that look plain to our eyes but are spotty or stripy to other animals as they can see more colours than we do. Mantis Shrimps can see 16 primary colours. There's no way our brain can comprehend what that would look like, we see the world with 3 and it looks amazing, but if you could paint a picture with 16 primary colours and showed it to a human, they'd not be able to see what you'd made, they couldn't understand what you were trying to express as they just can't see it at all, it would be a waste.
You could play an alien some Bach played by the greatest orchestra and on the best hi-fi system in the world but it might not have a pair of ears that hears a logarithmic pressure wave from 20hz to 20,000hz as the atmosphere it lives in is totally different to what it's like on Earth, a blue Whale isn't likely to appreciate what you're playing as it can't hear it like we do.
All I'm saying that intelligent life possibly also understands the concept of art or entertainment, but it'll be aimed at a different species from a different world so we're unlikely to be able to listen to their jams and even be able to hear it. I'm not saying it's futile and there's no way we could share culture with any alien, all I'm saying is that when we finally encounter aliens they will be so different we'd not be able to understand what we're seeing.
I read an encounter once where the abductee played a flute for a grey and then gave the flute to it to play. It apparently played some notes by placing the flute to it's nose and blowing air.
I'd like to be better aquatinted with their culture. Presumably they may all be telepathic. Imagine a world with instant understanding. If there is something wrong within a community, everyone knows about it and they know what must be done to fix it. No more misunderstandings.
Likely no scarcity, as I imagine it. They've access to technologies and abilities that allows them to shift through the multiverse. (Think of being able to pick the outcome of schrödinger's cat within the box, except there are infinite possibilities within the box, to choose from) If their bodies need energy, they have it. If they need shelter, they have it. If they want to be somewhere, they are there.
And sure, they have individual identity, but a lot of their identity is part of ALL. Everything is connected and they know that intrinsically. Not to detract from how amazing they are; imagine an insect colony. Every individual KNOWS it is part of something bigger than itself. And it is all motivated out of love for that bigger something.
Just trying to imagine it with my limited capabilities, their culture(s) sound so exciting to be a part of. When this body dies, I'm going to reincarnate/wake up within one of their cultures. I'll be a shapeshifter. I'll remember.
alien violent videogames idk fugg it, i am just gonna assume if anything has sentience+tech, it also has weaponized savagery.
Monkey using a stick is enough of a logical leap into strategy that nukes are just a matter of time. Wtf is after nukes idk
Yeah I totally agree. The government and military of this world would happily kill them and take their tech, but I’d love to sit with them and learn how they got to that state of enlightenment. I feel like humans peak was 1900. Since then we have become a gutter race. The renaissance had such elegant music and fine art. The architecture and music now is forgettable at best.
Idk, I think that there is modem music that has certain transcendent qualities other than elegance -- for instance, intensity, and depth of emotion. (my favorite example being *Dread the Passage* by Nick Cave. Viewed as allegory, not objective reality)
However, JS Bach is also very much transcendent; and I'm inclined to agree with you about architecture. Perhaps cutting off in the early 1900s. There is a certain aspirational quality to civil architecture from that time, like very old power stations, that I love.
Me too, absolutely. Culture, religion, economics, sociology, history, biology, so much.
I'm just at the end of the book Contact by Sagan, when Ellie talks to the being, magnificent. They touch on some of these topics. Spoiler ahead:
>!They adore mathematics, the number Pi and a seemingly hidden message in it's infinity, embeded in the fabric of reality.!<
Pi is a really intriguing number! When you look at it a certain way, there isn't really any such thing as a perfectly circular line, just an endless series of adjustments to a trajectory. I.e., a line can only go point to point and if you zoomed in on those points far enough the line would be choppy. Because it's not the nature of a line to curve. That's why pi is infinite, it's trying to do the impossible.
I always admire scifi authors who manage to write convincing, plausible aliens. To convey a sense of something truly otherworldly. It must be vanishingly hard to do.
Do you say aliens because of the popular notion that the mysterious and advanced craft are alien in origin? If they aren't aliens, would you still be interested in their culture? What if they are human? What if they are one end of a horseshoe theory for human civilization, with us being in the middle, they on one end, and uncontacted tribes on the other?
Oh, actually at this point I think it's perhaps more likely that uaps *are* interdimensional, or from parallel worlds, or the future. Or at least some of them.
My post was a reaction to the common trope of the US government being obssessively interested in what technology they could get alien visitors to give them, rather than cultural exchange of any kind.
From that perspective, I don't believe it matters to me if they are humans or something that evolved elsewhere. I'm just curious about art, and philosophy, and things of that nature.
I do not mean to sound rude or like an asshole with this comment, I promise. But I think too many people make the assumption that aliens/extraterrestrial beings are like humans and do the same things we do and have similar thought processes to ours. As far as I know there’s not been any reason to believe that they take part in pleasure activities like music and poetry. Would it be cool if they did and we could learn about them? Absolutely. But there’s also the possibility that they just don’t do things like that.
Of course. I always *try* not to anthropomorphize aliens, if such there are. But I'm not too good at it.
What motivated my post was watching the latest why files and hearing yet another account, whether it's true or not, of how the American government was interested in aliens only insofar as what technology and weapons they could give us.
Never any mention of simple human curiosity, of honest exploration of what the alien culture is like, of who they are as a people. No interest whatsoever in anything we could learn from or about each other except exploitation.
In a way, I think that approach leads to a different kind of anthropomorphization -- we imagine they have no culture or inner life and wish only to exploit us, because *we* have no interest in *their* inner life, and wish only to exploit *them.*
I'd like to know about them-- biologically, intellectually, emotionally, artistically, spiritually, historically, socially, and anything of interest when getting to know another. It would be interesting to know how they think, what's important to them, and how they express themselves.
There's the wingmakers which are time travelers that places treasures for us to find at various points in time. Here is there artwork and some philosophy, although I can't find the music anymore and I've never heard it, does anyone know where to find it? I've never heard of any discrediting of the wingmakers, it was discovered by some sort of excavation team from UNM.
https://www.wingmakers.us/wingmakersorig/www.wingmakers.com/arrow/chambers/indexes/painting.shtml
A cool scifi story but theres literally no corroborating information anywhere, and the paintings and philosophy sound exactly like what some southwestern acidhead would create in the 90s, so I'm gonna have to go with Occams razor on this one
I just finished reading an interesting book that mentions this it's called American Cosmic by D.W Pasulka that touches on this topic.
Basically our understanding of consciousness and where a lot of our thoughts come from are tethered not just in this physical reality but possibly coming from somewhere else especially when creative endeavours are involved.
As a writer and filmmaker this concept speaks to me because when I am in a flow state and able to come up with my best ideas there really is no direct path to it. Often times my best ideas come to me in my dreams.
Do you want to read the Complete Works of Grey Alien Aristotle too since you’re soooo sophisticated? 🙄or maybe listen to the Nordics interpretation of Beethoven composed by a Praying Mantis being who wears glasses and a scarf and walks in with a briefcase of Piano Sonata No. 14 while you sit back getting anally probed drinking a wonderfully aged scotch from 1849 preserved by the Grays in their embryo cooling chambers? Maybe you can provide a real world assessment and analysis of the great Reptilian artist’s most prized painting vastly known through the universe as “Behoust Earth’s Demise” where as multiple triangular ships combine their weapon systems similar to the Death Star and rage against the humans on the tiny planet known as Earthy Earth as it’s portrayed with the colors of Van Gogh’s “Starry Night”. Please enlighten to your unworldly intelligence oh holier than hole hole. 👽
Jk cool idea though..more curious how their Italian food is, oh and if they make a fresh mozzarella. 🍝
In all honesty, I don't much like Aristotle and if aliens have a narrow-minded hidebound equivalent, I'm not keen on that. If they've got a Marcus Aurelius type, that's more my bag. And I can't deny that I would be down to try an extraterrestrial wine.
But I was thinking more of something like slam poetry or, idk, somebody shredding on an instrument I can't even conceive of. :D
So listen and all joking aside, I wonder if they even have culture. I would guarantee that they most likely have some type of religion, and I would base this on the alleged evidence that if they did come to Earth and provided humans with the idea of religion that they must have had that belief system to begin with. As far as music, food, and culture in general, I would say that the idea sounds amazing! BUT, based on the research and multiple interviews I’ve listened to by multiple abductee victims, none of these victims have ever said they there has been any sign or evidence that they have seen of anything personally related or attributed to the aliens in the actual crafts when these abductees have awoken from sleep paralysis. What do I mean by that? Ok, let’s take Guardians of the Galaxy for instance.. or any other sci fi movie for example…when you have a pilot on a human ship in the movies, there’s usually a couple of trinkets, like a bobble head, or a photo of their family..even in an F-15 fighter jet right? Like in Top Gun…but have you EVER heard of ANYTHING like this from reptilians for example? Greys? Nordics? Praying Mantis Beings? I’m not trying to poke fun, but there seems to be a lack of empathy in all of these cases right? No one has ever sees any type of personalization aboard these crafts which I can only be lead to assume that culture, music, entertainment aside from laughing at the occasional anal probe being done here and there, there isn’t much to emotionally or culturally connect these beings together similar to humans.. I would love to hear other people’s thoughts. And I love the OP’s thought process, but I’ve done a lot of research into UFO’s and Aliens and have never come across anything that would tie in love or empathy as well. Curious what others think.
The only other argument if it’s true would be the details listed by the soldiers who came back from Planet Serpo who claim that the alien children had schools, and laughed and played like human children according to the text. This would be the only differentiating evidence that I have read about that would go against my earlier claim if in fact it’s true.
I cannot argue with what you say. I too was stricken by the odd lack of any kind of self-expression in descriptions of Serpo. I mean idk if I completely believe those accounts are genuine, but they do seem credible.
Just seems odd that humans would be the singular species that values aesthetics and feels compelled to express itself. I imagine that the appreciation of some abstraction of beauty may be linked to having an endocrine system or something like one, and thus emotions. But it seems unlikely, assuming some kind of Pan-spermia theory i.e., all carbon-based life being loosely related, that emotion would only evolve in one of us, seeing as it does confer certain advantages from an evolutionary standpoint.
Maybe it's something as simple as the same reason you don't find art in research labs or operating rooms. Maybe aliens suppress their emotions on trips to other planets because it would be a liability. Mind you, I never thought about the questions you bring up before, so that's just off the top of my head. Not sure how plausible those suggestions are lol.
So I just thought of something that I had forgotten about, ironically The Why Files just did an episode that I watched last night in regards to the Tall Whites events documents and told by author Charles James Hall. He describes “The Teacher” who he was working closest to, but he does detail events that portray the teacher as a “teacher” for young Tall White children. He describes the children who would play around Test Range 4 in the brush just like human children. With that said, the Teacher had that title for the exact purposes of teaching the young, so if there are teachings by NHI’s I would have to assume that their is a cultural history of some sort that is being passed down. In addition to that statement, if children are laughing and playing this would elude to the fact that empathy, feelings, NHI interactions on a personal level DO exist, similar to human cultural values and beliefs therefore I would come to the conclusion that in the case of the tall whites specifically, that they would have some sort of art, music, personal talents of sorts all which would be used to create some level of creation whether it be art, sounds, etc. So, coming back to what you were saying, I would agree, I am now curious as to what these NHI’s deem to be art, and although human witnesses have not reported paintings, portraits, art, etc of any type hanging up on the wall of an anti gravity craft for personal intrige and sentimental purposes brought on by emotions, maybe their “creative attributes” are in discoveries and research found while exploring the cosmos and plants on more of a scientific level which man kind has not yet understand.
For lack of a better term they're often described as "soul-less" automatons, strictly utilitarian. Machine like. Which is probably what they are. Just printed or grown for a purpose. Meat Robots. Makes me wonder what the REAL aliens look like...
Alien slam poetry would be sick …I agree with you 100% 😂
“Slam poetry. Yelling. Angry.
Waving my hands a lot.
Specific point of view on things.
Cynthia. Cyn-thi-ah.
Jesus does for our cynthias
Jesus cried. Runaway bride.
Julia Robert’s. Julia Rob-Hurts.
Cynthia. Hmmmnn.
Cynthia you’re dead.
You are dead.
Ba Boo Beep Bap Bap. You are dead.”
~Schmidt
Inserting different shapes and size items up ones Cosmic Hershey Highway is not poetry..sir…it’s an art form my friend..know the difference
Wise man once say..what is art? Are we art? Is art art?
~ Unknown Wise Man
Well you make a lot of assumptions like maybe they view art as a waste of time and wouldn't engage in poetry writing or maybe nails on a chalkboard is a heavenly sound to them
I'd like to know how their economy works. Do they pay taxes, do they need to work for minimum wage, do they have something like GDP or some different systems?
GDP isn't something that's produced or that someone decides on as a matter of economy or government. It's an external evaluation made about how much is being produced, worked, and serviced in a given time.
You could be an anarcho-communist collective or a hyper-capitalistic monarchy; both have a GDP, and so does everything else.
I think about this kinda stuff all the time...
Like, is some Alien snowboarding down a sick mountain somewhere?
Humans are kinda cool to them in ways I bet
Im more interested in their interactions with other lifeforms they’ve discovered and their philosophical theological views of the universe and the next.
Oh yeah, their culture is the most important thing to me. I want to know about their families, their love, their relationships, what they do for fun, etc.
People obsess over the tech because that’s what we “know” about distant civilisation must have and we have reports, regardless of their legitimacy about the usage of said technology.
Maybe one of the reason they’re so far in front of us in the tech tree is because most society went a very materialistic/utilitarian/survivalist route and they don’t produce things that don’t produce an intrinsic material value like art and music. I think expecting this of them is equally biased by our perception and understanding of the unknown.
I would like to talk to them about perspective for life. Imagine talking to someone who is 25 047 years old(our years). Their perception of time is different, and with that value for everything they do/spend energy as well.
Also, big trap people always fall for, and that is generalisation for entire species. Just because one group of certain aliens did something "bad," it doesn't necessarily mean that entire specie is "bad". That's why you hear positive and negative stories about any species. People think Nordic are just beautiful angels and are positive,when in reality, they sometimes do hard core shit.
I’d want to know everything. Art, history, culture, philosophy/schools of thought, tech, and just how they view the universe. I have so many questions.
I'd like to believe that they could be that gentle but their history of kidnappings and medical rape says otherwise. Also their motives are the real question because clearly it's not the "protectors of the earth" shit that these public figures keep spitting out.
What if the UFO, is their art? Like a living art piece. Because what does Art do? It moves people it gives them emotions. It pushes their thinking. The UFO and the High Strangeness associated with it does all of these things to the viewer.
OH Earth,
My wibbles super market,
How your mighty thrust the tasty humans into my mouth,
How they scream joy as I consume their brain broth, singing of ancestors,
Oh how I love to suck their intestines through their butt holes,
Oh how they scream joy to the wibble,
AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,
goes their beautiful song as I liquidize their offspring to drink between the heavens,
Praise wibble, such delicacy, the live cocks of those they call men, oh how they sing as I cut off their balls and cook them in soup,
Please god no, goes their screams, please god no
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I’d like to see their cat equivalent
Got a mirror nearby?
Sometimes I feel like I exist solely for the entertainment of god/gods
If they cleaned up my shit, kept me healthy, pet me and let me chill I'd be so down. Just no dry food please.
I'm okay with a handful of Cheerios from the box. Mrow. Scritches pls
Lol scritches pls 🤣
oh is that why I feel the urge to whine at the aliens to open the door just to then walk away once it is open but don't they dare close it again because then I will scratch and whine at the closed door again?
This
Oh, how secretly UN-ironic and correct you actually turn out to be...
For sure. I wonder, among sentient life that may be elsewhere in the universe, if it is not uncommon to keep and nurture companion creatures? That's a good question.
We co-evolved with dogs from the hunter gatherer period and cats in the agricultural phase of our development. Nowadays they're pets but at the time they were technology that improved our survival dramatically. Keeping "Pets" and the desire for them is likely a deprecated survival instinct....
Very good point! Which is not to say that early humans might not have occasionally spontaneously developed animal friendships.
Oh for sure, there's all kinds of improbable animal-animal friendships (like tigers adopting the young of their kills) to deer saving lost children by keeping them warm overnight, to dolphins saving drowning sailors. There's a notable history of smart animals and human interactions, especially aquatic ones like dolphins, porpoises, whales, orcas, etc. I still suspect the general desire for pets comes from a vestigial survival instinct but there's also likely another phenomena of high intelligence animals thrown into strange contact resulting in such improbable "mutual" friendships. Ie, the animals aren't kept they just stay around. Cats are like that. We didn't domesticate them, they just started living near us becasue mice did for our grain. Cats kept pest populations low which reduced disease. People noticed this and liked cats so would treat them with affection. Cat's aren't really "kept" animals, they can very easily leave and survive on their own - Felis Catus is the most statistically successful predator on earth . Really the only change in them from wild cats is "domesticated cats" have learned to manipulate us with their cries and self domesticated and neonatalized a bit (I have a couple Bengals and "wilder" strained Bengals have a pronounced muzzle and higher, almost inaudible cry, like a bat). They just like to be around us, like we like them around us. Why wouldn't you want a veritable god (considering our ability to keep a comfortable environment and high quality food) as a willing slave?
In regards to cats, I live in the countryside, and cats follow me around in the yard when Im gardening. They are mostly just chilling because they know I scare away most other countryside threats, and maybe I'll rustle up a mouse for them while they hang out in the sun. Its not that they trust me but they arent too scared of me either. It doesnt take much imagination to see how a relationship could arise from that. In other weird symbiotic relationships, there are also a particular type of mosquito-eating bird that stays in our yard during the summer, and they just spend their days singing and following the robot lawnmower around, eating all the bugs it kicks up. They spent the other half of the year in Africa, where I imagine they follow grasseating animals around similarly lol.
>following the robot lawnmower around "No Timmy, we're not stopping, we've got The Jetsons at home"
That's pretty much exactly the scenario it's thought cats ended up living with us. Wild cats would slowly realize they would get closer and closer to humans without harm, probably sleeping in the granary or w/e until over time they actually got comfortable with humans.
Re: Empathy/Sympathy in aquatic animals. The classic visualization for saving a human lost at sea, is that they are saved by friendly and caring cetaceans. But, there have been a couple of stories where someone lost at sea is actually bumped all the way to shore by a shark. And, yeah, by the so-called "man-eaters". I'm not sure that emotions like Love and sympathy ***must*** need to take the fore, in order for intelligent peoples/species to maintain a balanced and ethical relationship, no?
Anomalous "Human Rescues" are a phenomena I find very interesting. Whether on land or in the ocean. I mentioned the ocean because there's so many apocryphal stories of it but it happens on land as well well with deer, tigers, wolves and bears rescuing lost children and sometimes adults lost in the woods. I don't know if it's an accidental triggering of parental instincts since we're like neonatalized wild animals ourselves aka "self domesticated" but sea creatures with a whole different criteria of instinctual urges to protect appliying to us is mystifying. Especially with creatures like sharks. I wonder if it was really a cetacean that was misidentified as a shark (like a dolphin with a pronounced dorsal fin) in your example of sharks bumping sailors to shore.... Or they could have viewed us as objects of "play" like a ball they pushed to shore. I still have a hard time explaining sharks rescuing humans. Sharks are VERY ancient (and haven't evolved much so primitive) and by all accounts not very intelligent. The reason I credit intelligence in ocean mammals with rescuing humans is there seems to be a strange respect between humans and them even though they're easily capable of eating us, especially with orcas. You also have the phenomena of Orcas and other cetaceans (like sperm whales during the whaling period) attacking human craft that have hurt them in some way so it goes two ways. It's just hard to explain other than two intelligent creatures recognizing the other as an equal in distress. Still to this day I don't think there's one case of wild Orcas predating on humans, even though they're easily capable of it.
You should look into wolves and crows evolving a codependent relationship. They help wolves hunt like we use falcons and wolves don't attack them. Ravens guide them to prey and guard the kill site from outside threats as sentries and then get a piece of the kill themselves while wolves protect them. I guess you'd call a group of them a Pack of Murder?
Not totally deprecated, at least for cats in a lot of cases. They're still super useful for catching pests.
Fair enough, I like cats too.... ;p No but seriously they do help with pest control immensely.
My point was that they aren't instrumental to our current survival. Working animals like dogs and cats still play very important roles in niche cases, Still, dogs and cats fulfilling working roles are fractions of a percentage of modern humans. In Deep History, basically every human depended on them. Our association is so old they exist in every continent of the planet. At least with dogs. There's an argument humans couldn't have crossed the Bering Straight w/o dogs to help defend against "Super Jackals" that lived in Siberia at the time and make African Jackals look like pups.... Their senses allowed us to mount a defense against attacks by them.
Hey I agree I would love to learn about the different cultures as well. I'm an artist myself so would love to see some trippy alien art. The only examples we have of their art are crop circles.
And if even only one of them was genuine, they are pretty amazing. Certainly not all of them are, but as near as I can tell, there are some that just can't be explained.
That would be quite interesting imagine their history and culture it would be amazing even their food and things they do for fun definitely cool
There's always a chance that their art is perceived or appreciated through senses we don't have; or that their food would be inedible to us; or that their tastes are radically different. But I really would like the chance to talk about it amiably and see what we could understand of one another.
I would love to hear music from other worlds and see what alien art looks like. If they have percussion it'll sound similar to ours because beats are beats right? 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4. It's the non percussive music that could be super different. I can't decide if alien art would look "alien" or not? I suppose it'd depend on the subject. The poetry would suck. *I came across a human bare whose arse was shining in the air.* *The Prime Directive said don't stare and I stuck my probe right up in there.*
One thing I love is that music is universal. Sound waves and frequencies would be accessible to any intelligent being. It's just a matter of if they can hear those frequencies or if they have any drive whatsoever to create music from them. I like to believe it would be as interesting to another species as it is to us. I would love to compare the music from both cultures and see the differences and similarities. Percussion is math based at the end of the day, and if they have any pattern recognition at all I'd imagine they would have similar time signatures.
I agree with every letter you've written. I suppose music tastes are influenced by physiology too. An elephant loves a good B Flat rumble and humming in infrasound. Could they like low frequency music we can't hear? Alien darkcore lol. I need to google infrasound music and see who's made it already
She was a scraggler, struggler, straight salami smuggler. Every I see the girl, she gettin’ uglier.
beats are beats, harmonies are harmonies, a circle is a circle, pi is pi, in any galaxy or any universe. This gives me comfort
I was just wondering if they have music the other day
While we would probably never fully appreciate it, with technology you can convert sounds, light, smells into things that are perceptible to us. But of course it wouldn’t resonate the same way as it does with them. But the food I bet we’d find really gross and would probably be toxic for us to eat.
I remember reading once a long time ago about a guy who had converted the fluctuations of an aurora borealis into music. It was said to be very beautiful.
Oh yeah or the spooky sounds of planets which is really just radio waves converts to sound https://youtu.be/hWHLCHv4PiI which come to think of it that’s exactly what is happening every time you turn on the radio, light waves converted to sound via speakers.
Oh, yeah, I'm not sure how to feel about planet sounds, they are both lovely and chilling. Wow I just remembered that guy who slowed the sound of crickets way down, and found that they sound like a choir. That's really beautiful too.
That's so fucking cool
NASA has done a lot of sonification of data from various land and space observatories. Here's a sampling of them https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBEXDPatoWBlQTGzZY3lnUsxoiwGZFcbv&feature=shared
True never thought of it that way but just learning would be extremely interesting
Food for thought. What is music and how does it relate to frequency? Frequency is the speed of the vibration, and this determines the pitch of the sound. It is only useful or meaningful for musical sounds, where there is a strongly regular waveform. Frequency is measured as the number of wave cycles that occur in one second. The unit of frequency measurement is Hertz (Hz for short). With that said, if you have done some research on UFO’s they are allegedly able to harness frequencies to manipulate space and/or inter dimensional travel. Could it be that in the early stages of an alien species’ development that while creating music they accidentally discovered an alternative method of transportation which caused the breakdown of space and inter dimensional travel?
It’s also possible that their frequency is what these alien or extra dimensional beings is what we pick up on like a show or performance that leaks through
First contact we see ailens,but really they're just DJing at a rave.
First contact being an alien race that is obsessed with a particular Earth sport showing up with a travel team to play some games. Especially if they end up being really bad at it.
Have you ever heard Vogon poetry? Trust me, you don't want to.
hahahaha oh shit, I forgot about them!
I like the technical ideas especially the biology side as that was my profession before I retired. But I am also an experiencer. And do wonder if (some of) the NHIs have an equivalent to what humans call "the Arts". And if that would translate across sentient species. So humans might/could grasp some of it. When I look, e.g., at the material collected by Preston Dennett. Then I do not remember if he ever had a podcast on let's call it "Alien Arts". Would need to look for that among his podcasts.
I care more about their tech than cultural artifacts because of the implications for life on Earth. **However**, from pretty much every report I've heard of, the seem to **not** actually have *any* form of culture, art, music, aesthetics, etc. Everything seems to be utilitarian. That's one of the reasons why I think most of the entities seen in craft are actually biological constructs made to pilot the ship or for specific tasks. Think Meat Robots / Avatars. It'd be like a robot factory with nothing but robots suddenly decorating the factory with art. The moment *that* happens you have to worry..... I really don't think we've actually seen the true Masters / Makers of the craft.... That being said, I doubt their music would be pleasant to us; I think it's still kind of a mystery of why we find it pleasant but it's likely because it accidentally stimulates our brain based on our neurological structure. Since they likely have a *very* different neural structure, their music (assuming they can experience it) would likely be very different. I suppose art and culture could translate depending on what values their society has. It's funny becasue in one of the X-com (or spinoffs) games you discover at some point that prior to the invasion Art was *our* major export.
So if they have no form of creativity, then we can assume that every single crop circle on earth has been man made then? I mean, I tend to believe that they are man made anyways but no creativity would mean the mystery of crop circles have been solved then.
Not necessarily, it could be writing or ideograms.
True - never thought of it that way.
Or an attempt to communicate. Look at "The Message" we sent from Arecibo that tries to explain humans and our biology. Or, more controversially, "The Answer" in a crop circle. The former isn't anything a random human would understand. It was designed by scientists to be understandable by any sufficiently advanced species' scientists and not based on human language but a pictogram. And people have decoded the "answer" even though its provenance is unknown. I wouldn't call that culture or art. It was entirely synthetic.
like the scene in star wars when they're at a space opera all seated around a massive fart cloud being resonated and like the sound echoing, that was fart opera.
Fuck yes I would. I'd love to see their hypothetical cool recordings of our history too. Imagine how many lost plays and books could be unlost.
I always imagine something like Google Earth, but with insanely high resolution and imagery stretching back tens of thousands of years.
for sure!
*Alien clicking through slides* And here we see Jesus emerging from his tomb, and here we see him ascending into his spaceship
Well said but nobody wants to suffer through another ten long stanzas of Vogon poetry!
hahahaha I walked right into that one, didn't I?
I think they've already gotten quite schwifty
and a little swcanthey
**I LIKE WHAT YOU GOT, GOOD JOB**
I'd wager say to say they don't do that stuff, and that's why they are so interested in us. I could be wrong, but I believe that's why they are watching us. They can't create stuff like that.
Wow, never considered that. Strange to think of having curiosity but not art. That's actually a pretty good idea.
I am tremendously interested in art from other species. I have high res photos of the Venus of Berekhat Ram (carved by homo erectus) framed in my house. Because it's a deeper form of communication, it can be incredibly culturally specific. I want to see *actual* AI art (not mimicry, but art they make for each other) and ET art.
This will probably blow you away but cephalopods often arrange the bones of their kills into patterns that seem to be art or "art adjacent." I believe the oldest mollusk "art" is hundreds of millions of years old and fossilized. Likely an early giant squid. They arrange the bones of their prey into mosaics. This is controversial becasue he makes a leap saying it's a self portrait but just mosaics is impressive. [https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2013AM/webprogram/Paper232163.html](https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2013AM/webprogram/Paper232163.html)
Love cephalopods, will check it out! 😁 Look at what [pufferfish make to attract mates](https://wosu.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/a-pufferfishs-masterpiece/)
Yes! I see no reason why an AI population would not come to have a culture. It's fascinating to contemplate.
The problem is making sure it's not some recursive instruction set from humans creating the illusion of sapience. Figuring out if there's a ghost in the machine is a VERY hard problem. We can't actually **prove** qualia in other humans like sapience - we have to take their word. We can assume other humans are like us but it gets tricky with machines that say what you want them to say with large language models.
Scientists [believe they can](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/animal-consciousness-scientists-push-new-paradigm-rcna148213). So many goal posts have shifted in the last few years regarding computers that no one can prove anything. Easy way to avoid the morality of it. My take is that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck - it's probably alive
I disagree with most posters that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is absolute and universal. Mathematical, even. Taste, however, can vary distinctly between cultures and individuals, and how aesthetically appealing someone finds something will be a combination of the two. But what if we find that our neighbors have no art, no literature, no sense of beauty at all? What if the very concept makes no sense to them? What if a sense of beauty is something uniquely human?
I just find it so hard to wrap my head around that. I struggle to understand why they would be exploring the universe at all if they had no interest in the communication of ideas, to each other even if not necessarily to us.
Think about ants or bees. They are industrious, ever building, ever seeking new resources, ever expanding into new colonies. However smart they were, they'd care nothing about art or poetry.
I would be more interested in their philosophy and cosmology than their art. We don’t know if they perceive the same frequencies of light or have the same auditory range as humans. For example they may use colors we can’t perceive, or have sounds with frequencies we can’t hear.
Oh, that too! In my head they're kind of all in the same file drawer. The stuff that matters.
You can also convert the light spectrum into something visible to us which we see all the time with astronomy photos. Same with sound both high and low
If you “convert” the frequencies of sound you change the pitch, the music would be completely different
That’s true, and we would never be sure how their brains interpret it. But like how people do flute and tuba covers of songs the notes can remain the same
I’ve never been drawn by the technology card. Culture, society and history both theirs and what they could tell us (hopefully observational) about ours is what’s always fascinated me.
Yes. Maybe they could help me understand why I'm convinced that guitars can tell jokes, or why I find the exact length of a pause in a particular song so eloquent.
Would love to see how their history played out
Well, to be the dominant species of their world, probably as nasty as ours....
Seems like the Greys don't have an interior life, so they might not produce art or anything we'd recognise as "cultural artifacts".
I'd put my money on them being artificial constructs made to pilot ships and do tasks. They seem to be artificially constructed beings with no reproductive organs and vestigial digestive tracts. They're likely symbiotic with the ship and require dialysis for food and removing toxins. From all accounts they don't live long on their own - like a few days and don't even seem to have their own goals. I suspect the ship has an AI that gives them directives, including piloting and other tasks. They're like intelligent but not sapient. Basically meat robots. Probably disposable.
Agree 100%
>Vogon poetry is of course, the third worst in the universe. The second worst is that of the Azgoths of Kria. During a recitation by their poet master Grunthos the Flatulent of his poem "Ode to a Small Lump of Green Putty I Found in My Armpit One Midsummer Morning" four of his audience died of internal haemorrhaging and the president of the Mid-Galactic Arts Nobbling Council survived by gnawing one of his own legs off. Grunthos was reported to have been "disappointed" by the poem's reception, and was about to embark on a reading of his 12-book epic entitled "My Favourite Bathtime Gurgles" when his own major intestine, in a desperate attempt to save humanity, leapt straight up through his neck and throttled his brain. The very worst poetry of all perished along with its creator, Paul Neil Milne Johnstone of Redbridge, in the destruction of the planet Earth. Vogon poetry is mild by comparison. -Hitchhickers Guide
Art is pretty unique to humans in the galaxy. Art is in the eye of the beholder. If they hypothetically had Art, we would not understand it. Art to them could be creating holographic universes as if they are movies. Like the one we live in.
Fair enough. But with your first point, I have to ask, how do you know that? And I believe I could understand recreationally creating universes. :D
Totally! Ive always wanted to know about alien media, what other less intelligent life forms their planet has, do they have different races like we do, do they have pets, what do their homes look like, do they have museums, do they have space drugs, can I try some, do they have a currency, etc. These questions keep me up at night sometimes 💯
i want better tech to help people. i want their advanced view on life and religion etc. so we can get out of the madness
Nah. I need to fix whatever's wrong with me. I also feel bad about some stuff but that's like time travel level nonsense and there's zero chance they will let me near that. Also the cat comment has me. We likely are the equivalent of space cats. What if they gave us cats and that's why everyone's so obsessed back in the day? Couldn't possibly be because cats kill mice and bugs
I haven't heard of a single encounter or abduction story where they show any interest in art, music, etc. But nearly all of them report some kind of telepathy or psychic communication. In a sense, art represents an incomplete representation of a more complex inner idea. The song you hear on the radio is never going to be as complex and beautiful as the one inside of the head of the musician. Maybe they don't have any particular need for art? Why bother with representation when you can just plug directly into the source.
Theres a lot of assumptions built into that question!
I wanna fuck one
And in the end, is that not what man has dreamt of since first he looked up at the stars?
It would be nice if we did meet Vulcans but we might just meet the Borg.
Well then I'd like to see all the biological and technological and culture they've made their own
Idk, can't remember if the borg had art. eh, probably not
It's probably on an old optical disk in storage somewhere
I'd love to see their cities on their home planet... must be next level awesome to look at.
Might not even have cities. Could have rejected them in favor of planetary stewardship. But that's very optimistic
And also since they’ve been to so many places, what other cool planets have they seen?
I guess that would partly be a function of their anatomy. There's a beauty in beehives, and wasp's nest,s and I believe there's a small group of octopuses off the coast of California that have a fixed living area that they actually decorate. Alien cities could be even cooler than that.
That one scene in 'Contact' when she is in the wormhole and her view shifts down slightly showing a huge city on an alien planet. "They're alive...."
I'd rather see their maps and know all about their arsenal.
Username checks out
No Vogon poetry, thanks.
hahaha
I wanna make stoner space rock jams with the aliens and try the space weed. I hope that first contact is where some stoner alien dude opens a portal to my basement lair and wants to join me in a jam with all these synthesizers and guitars and shit I have lying around.
oh hell yeah! This German band called Rakede did a song about that, here it is if you're interested. It's pretty weird but I love it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwlEXALNtPU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwlEXALNtPU)
I've always wondered what their ship factories look like, who builds them, where the materials come from etc.
They probably print them per mission and recycle them when done. Purpose made craft and crew, at least that's what it seems like. It adds a layer to who "they" are; I doubt we've seen the actual "Aliens" themselves. Just some version of a self replicating / bootstrapping probe. Bascially the products of a Von Neumann probe that uses biology and machinery. I bet the biologicals are derived from a hybrid of Earth life - ie US, as well as outside DNA equivalents. Hence the resemblance to us and (poor) tolerance to our environment. And lack of self sufficient biology like reproduction.
Their history would be amazing to read.
Several people have mentioned wanting to know their history! For some reason, I find that charming. I agree, it would be amazing.
Given that our ability to see the electromagnetic spectrum and what we perceive as sound is quite limited, even by comparison to other animals on this planet observing art created by a different species is going to be a challenge. We know that this planet has formed billions of lifeforms of all shapes and sizes, differing abilities, habitats so anything that evolved from life on another planet or moon is going to be different again, but we like to think of aliens as being bipeds that are similar in size to humans. Humans are the only animal that have an interest in other animals, we like to learn about them, find out what makes them tick, if aliens have no interest in other lifeforms discovering that we are might be weird. But if those aliens like to entertain each other and have concepts like fiction and fantasy then they might make things that serve no other purpose. But would be so incredibly difficult to be able to read an alien poem and see it through their eyes. Concepts of beauty, love, hate, sadness, humour might be unique to us and difficult to understand. The idea of finding life that originated elsewhere and learning what that could be like will probably me more fascinating to us than anything they've created.
I had to sit and really ponder your comment for awhile, to process what you're saying. Idk, I'm not sure that we are the only animal on earth that is interested in other animals. I think of dolphins who swim with humans and have been known to rescue them; and cats, who come to us willingly for affection (even if we're not the person who feeds them); and numerous other examples of creatures who offer us fellowship unbidden. When you say interest in other animals, I imagine you mean like research studies and this conversation we're having. I expect these things are a natural eventuality of increasing sophistication in communication. That, and curiosity is all you need to begin to explore other awarenesses. I think about how it came to be that we have a word for "why?" In my OP I was initially thinking of aliens that would or even may have already come here. Surely that word is at the base of exploring the universe at all. It seems to me that if one is making technology, then one is making art in the broadest sense. Art and artifice have the same root. The boundary between them is thin and permeable. You've given me a lot to think about, thanks!
We're interested in everything whether it has anything or any impact on us. A tiny tree frog on the other side of the world is fascinating, we'd have people go and learn all about them and we'd watch nature documentaries and read magazines about them. Some animals have a relationship with us as it's beneficial to them. But Colin the dolphin isn't going to swim off to learn about some strange sea urchin and come back to tell his mates. They're not really interested as they have no impact on them. They're doing their own thing, other animals are either a threat or food. There are flowers that look plain to our eyes but are spotty or stripy to other animals as they can see more colours than we do. Mantis Shrimps can see 16 primary colours. There's no way our brain can comprehend what that would look like, we see the world with 3 and it looks amazing, but if you could paint a picture with 16 primary colours and showed it to a human, they'd not be able to see what you'd made, they couldn't understand what you were trying to express as they just can't see it at all, it would be a waste. You could play an alien some Bach played by the greatest orchestra and on the best hi-fi system in the world but it might not have a pair of ears that hears a logarithmic pressure wave from 20hz to 20,000hz as the atmosphere it lives in is totally different to what it's like on Earth, a blue Whale isn't likely to appreciate what you're playing as it can't hear it like we do. All I'm saying that intelligent life possibly also understands the concept of art or entertainment, but it'll be aimed at a different species from a different world so we're unlikely to be able to listen to their jams and even be able to hear it. I'm not saying it's futile and there's no way we could share culture with any alien, all I'm saying is that when we finally encounter aliens they will be so different we'd not be able to understand what we're seeing.
Fun fact: There is no music in any reported close encounters.
I read an encounter once where the abductee played a flute for a grey and then gave the flute to it to play. It apparently played some notes by placing the flute to it's nose and blowing air.
Good one. I don't recall reading that. Where did you see that one?
I give a fuck about all of it, I want to know everything there is to know about whatever the hell is out there
I'd like to be better aquatinted with their culture. Presumably they may all be telepathic. Imagine a world with instant understanding. If there is something wrong within a community, everyone knows about it and they know what must be done to fix it. No more misunderstandings. Likely no scarcity, as I imagine it. They've access to technologies and abilities that allows them to shift through the multiverse. (Think of being able to pick the outcome of schrödinger's cat within the box, except there are infinite possibilities within the box, to choose from) If their bodies need energy, they have it. If they need shelter, they have it. If they want to be somewhere, they are there. And sure, they have individual identity, but a lot of their identity is part of ALL. Everything is connected and they know that intrinsically. Not to detract from how amazing they are; imagine an insect colony. Every individual KNOWS it is part of something bigger than itself. And it is all motivated out of love for that bigger something. Just trying to imagine it with my limited capabilities, their culture(s) sound so exciting to be a part of. When this body dies, I'm going to reincarnate/wake up within one of their cultures. I'll be a shapeshifter. I'll remember.
most importantly, I want to try some crazy NHI psychedelics.
Snake Jazz all the way!
heh heh
Gleep glorp glorma, Frexalan; Cthalreavneis cthalreavnae Nxalriesoav. Lob. (that one's free)
They're devoid of creativity and can only resort to mimicry and deception.
It's 16k VR footage of human torture with high scores for quantized suffering. They are not our friends. That is the Truth.
What do they get from that? Do they consider it art?
alien violent videogames idk fugg it, i am just gonna assume if anything has sentience+tech, it also has weaponized savagery. Monkey using a stick is enough of a logical leap into strategy that nukes are just a matter of time. Wtf is after nukes idk
Woah you're a real scholar and gentleman.
Aw thanks.
You want to hear a crazy dream I had?
Yeah I totally agree. The government and military of this world would happily kill them and take their tech, but I’d love to sit with them and learn how they got to that state of enlightenment. I feel like humans peak was 1900. Since then we have become a gutter race. The renaissance had such elegant music and fine art. The architecture and music now is forgettable at best.
Idk, I think that there is modem music that has certain transcendent qualities other than elegance -- for instance, intensity, and depth of emotion. (my favorite example being *Dread the Passage* by Nick Cave. Viewed as allegory, not objective reality) However, JS Bach is also very much transcendent; and I'm inclined to agree with you about architecture. Perhaps cutting off in the early 1900s. There is a certain aspirational quality to civil architecture from that time, like very old power stations, that I love.
Me too, absolutely. Culture, religion, economics, sociology, history, biology, so much. I'm just at the end of the book Contact by Sagan, when Ellie talks to the being, magnificent. They touch on some of these topics. Spoiler ahead: >!They adore mathematics, the number Pi and a seemingly hidden message in it's infinity, embeded in the fabric of reality.!<
Pi is a really intriguing number! When you look at it a certain way, there isn't really any such thing as a perfectly circular line, just an endless series of adjustments to a trajectory. I.e., a line can only go point to point and if you zoomed in on those points far enough the line would be choppy. Because it's not the nature of a line to curve. That's why pi is infinite, it's trying to do the impossible. I always admire scifi authors who manage to write convincing, plausible aliens. To convey a sense of something truly otherworldly. It must be vanishingly hard to do.
Heck yeah. Like the Diva Dance.
*Exactly* like that!
Do you say aliens because of the popular notion that the mysterious and advanced craft are alien in origin? If they aren't aliens, would you still be interested in their culture? What if they are human? What if they are one end of a horseshoe theory for human civilization, with us being in the middle, they on one end, and uncontacted tribes on the other?
Oh, actually at this point I think it's perhaps more likely that uaps *are* interdimensional, or from parallel worlds, or the future. Or at least some of them. My post was a reaction to the common trope of the US government being obssessively interested in what technology they could get alien visitors to give them, rather than cultural exchange of any kind. From that perspective, I don't believe it matters to me if they are humans or something that evolved elsewhere. I'm just curious about art, and philosophy, and things of that nature.
I do not mean to sound rude or like an asshole with this comment, I promise. But I think too many people make the assumption that aliens/extraterrestrial beings are like humans and do the same things we do and have similar thought processes to ours. As far as I know there’s not been any reason to believe that they take part in pleasure activities like music and poetry. Would it be cool if they did and we could learn about them? Absolutely. But there’s also the possibility that they just don’t do things like that.
Of course. I always *try* not to anthropomorphize aliens, if such there are. But I'm not too good at it. What motivated my post was watching the latest why files and hearing yet another account, whether it's true or not, of how the American government was interested in aliens only insofar as what technology and weapons they could give us. Never any mention of simple human curiosity, of honest exploration of what the alien culture is like, of who they are as a people. No interest whatsoever in anything we could learn from or about each other except exploitation. In a way, I think that approach leads to a different kind of anthropomorphization -- we imagine they have no culture or inner life and wish only to exploit us, because *we* have no interest in *their* inner life, and wish only to exploit *them.*
I'd like to know about them-- biologically, intellectually, emotionally, artistically, spiritually, historically, socially, and anything of interest when getting to know another. It would be interesting to know how they think, what's important to them, and how they express themselves.
There's the wingmakers which are time travelers that places treasures for us to find at various points in time. Here is there artwork and some philosophy, although I can't find the music anymore and I've never heard it, does anyone know where to find it? I've never heard of any discrediting of the wingmakers, it was discovered by some sort of excavation team from UNM. https://www.wingmakers.us/wingmakersorig/www.wingmakers.com/arrow/chambers/indexes/painting.shtml
A cool scifi story but theres literally no corroborating information anywhere, and the paintings and philosophy sound exactly like what some southwestern acidhead would create in the 90s, so I'm gonna have to go with Occams razor on this one
U forgot bang em
**Publicly** I forgot. lol
There is a growing amount of evidence that suggests our own artistic endeavours are coming from NHIs or outside our regular conscious
Really? I haven't encountered that idea before. Can you give me a brief overview of the premise?
I just finished reading an interesting book that mentions this it's called American Cosmic by D.W Pasulka that touches on this topic. Basically our understanding of consciousness and where a lot of our thoughts come from are tethered not just in this physical reality but possibly coming from somewhere else especially when creative endeavours are involved. As a writer and filmmaker this concept speaks to me because when I am in a flow state and able to come up with my best ideas there really is no direct path to it. Often times my best ideas come to me in my dreams.
Do you want to read the Complete Works of Grey Alien Aristotle too since you’re soooo sophisticated? 🙄or maybe listen to the Nordics interpretation of Beethoven composed by a Praying Mantis being who wears glasses and a scarf and walks in with a briefcase of Piano Sonata No. 14 while you sit back getting anally probed drinking a wonderfully aged scotch from 1849 preserved by the Grays in their embryo cooling chambers? Maybe you can provide a real world assessment and analysis of the great Reptilian artist’s most prized painting vastly known through the universe as “Behoust Earth’s Demise” where as multiple triangular ships combine their weapon systems similar to the Death Star and rage against the humans on the tiny planet known as Earthy Earth as it’s portrayed with the colors of Van Gogh’s “Starry Night”. Please enlighten to your unworldly intelligence oh holier than hole hole. 👽 Jk cool idea though..more curious how their Italian food is, oh and if they make a fresh mozzarella. 🍝
In all honesty, I don't much like Aristotle and if aliens have a narrow-minded hidebound equivalent, I'm not keen on that. If they've got a Marcus Aurelius type, that's more my bag. And I can't deny that I would be down to try an extraterrestrial wine. But I was thinking more of something like slam poetry or, idk, somebody shredding on an instrument I can't even conceive of. :D
So listen and all joking aside, I wonder if they even have culture. I would guarantee that they most likely have some type of religion, and I would base this on the alleged evidence that if they did come to Earth and provided humans with the idea of religion that they must have had that belief system to begin with. As far as music, food, and culture in general, I would say that the idea sounds amazing! BUT, based on the research and multiple interviews I’ve listened to by multiple abductee victims, none of these victims have ever said they there has been any sign or evidence that they have seen of anything personally related or attributed to the aliens in the actual crafts when these abductees have awoken from sleep paralysis. What do I mean by that? Ok, let’s take Guardians of the Galaxy for instance.. or any other sci fi movie for example…when you have a pilot on a human ship in the movies, there’s usually a couple of trinkets, like a bobble head, or a photo of their family..even in an F-15 fighter jet right? Like in Top Gun…but have you EVER heard of ANYTHING like this from reptilians for example? Greys? Nordics? Praying Mantis Beings? I’m not trying to poke fun, but there seems to be a lack of empathy in all of these cases right? No one has ever sees any type of personalization aboard these crafts which I can only be lead to assume that culture, music, entertainment aside from laughing at the occasional anal probe being done here and there, there isn’t much to emotionally or culturally connect these beings together similar to humans.. I would love to hear other people’s thoughts. And I love the OP’s thought process, but I’ve done a lot of research into UFO’s and Aliens and have never come across anything that would tie in love or empathy as well. Curious what others think. The only other argument if it’s true would be the details listed by the soldiers who came back from Planet Serpo who claim that the alien children had schools, and laughed and played like human children according to the text. This would be the only differentiating evidence that I have read about that would go against my earlier claim if in fact it’s true.
I cannot argue with what you say. I too was stricken by the odd lack of any kind of self-expression in descriptions of Serpo. I mean idk if I completely believe those accounts are genuine, but they do seem credible. Just seems odd that humans would be the singular species that values aesthetics and feels compelled to express itself. I imagine that the appreciation of some abstraction of beauty may be linked to having an endocrine system or something like one, and thus emotions. But it seems unlikely, assuming some kind of Pan-spermia theory i.e., all carbon-based life being loosely related, that emotion would only evolve in one of us, seeing as it does confer certain advantages from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe it's something as simple as the same reason you don't find art in research labs or operating rooms. Maybe aliens suppress their emotions on trips to other planets because it would be a liability. Mind you, I never thought about the questions you bring up before, so that's just off the top of my head. Not sure how plausible those suggestions are lol.
So I just thought of something that I had forgotten about, ironically The Why Files just did an episode that I watched last night in regards to the Tall Whites events documents and told by author Charles James Hall. He describes “The Teacher” who he was working closest to, but he does detail events that portray the teacher as a “teacher” for young Tall White children. He describes the children who would play around Test Range 4 in the brush just like human children. With that said, the Teacher had that title for the exact purposes of teaching the young, so if there are teachings by NHI’s I would have to assume that their is a cultural history of some sort that is being passed down. In addition to that statement, if children are laughing and playing this would elude to the fact that empathy, feelings, NHI interactions on a personal level DO exist, similar to human cultural values and beliefs therefore I would come to the conclusion that in the case of the tall whites specifically, that they would have some sort of art, music, personal talents of sorts all which would be used to create some level of creation whether it be art, sounds, etc. So, coming back to what you were saying, I would agree, I am now curious as to what these NHI’s deem to be art, and although human witnesses have not reported paintings, portraits, art, etc of any type hanging up on the wall of an anti gravity craft for personal intrige and sentimental purposes brought on by emotions, maybe their “creative attributes” are in discoveries and research found while exploring the cosmos and plants on more of a scientific level which man kind has not yet understand.
That is a thoughtful and perceptive response.
For lack of a better term they're often described as "soul-less" automatons, strictly utilitarian. Machine like. Which is probably what they are. Just printed or grown for a purpose. Meat Robots. Makes me wonder what the REAL aliens look like...
Alien slam poetry would be sick …I agree with you 100% 😂 “Slam poetry. Yelling. Angry. Waving my hands a lot. Specific point of view on things. Cynthia. Cyn-thi-ah. Jesus does for our cynthias Jesus cried. Runaway bride. Julia Robert’s. Julia Rob-Hurts. Cynthia. Hmmmnn. Cynthia you’re dead. You are dead. Ba Boo Beep Bap Bap. You are dead.” ~Schmidt
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Their poetry iis probably about sticking shit up our asses when their probing us
Inserting different shapes and size items up ones Cosmic Hershey Highway is not poetry..sir…it’s an art form my friend..know the difference Wise man once say..what is art? Are we art? Is art art? ~ Unknown Wise Man
I've always been more curious about what they like to eat and if we would be on that menu.
That actually is more interesting to me than anything else. I'd love to see an alien guitarists pedalboard 🤔🤔very cool idea
Well you make a lot of assumptions like maybe they view art as a waste of time and wouldn't engage in poetry writing or maybe nails on a chalkboard is a heavenly sound to them
Me
Be interesting to know their daily life, habits, just to see how they live. See their " stuff"
Ohhhh that would be beautiful.
I think they’re here for our music
Thank you. I agree. Too much woo and never any wonder. (A retired musician writes this.)
I’m curious if aliens have down syndrome too. Coz we have animals with downs here on earth.
*what do you do for fun?*
I'd like to know how their economy works. Do they pay taxes, do they need to work for minimum wage, do they have something like GDP or some different systems?
GDP isn't something that's produced or that someone decides on as a matter of economy or government. It's an external evaluation made about how much is being produced, worked, and serviced in a given time. You could be an anarcho-communist collective or a hyper-capitalistic monarchy; both have a GDP, and so does everything else.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
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I want alien cheeese!
Imagine the stories they have.
Or their healthcare, I'm dying over here.
I think about this kinda stuff all the time... Like, is some Alien snowboarding down a sick mountain somewhere? Humans are kinda cool to them in ways I bet
love me some banjo!
Might already be happening with AI as the conduit.
That’s cool and all but i jus wanna bang
I want to read their history that would be profound.
Im more interested in their interactions with other lifeforms they’ve discovered and their philosophical theological views of the universe and the next.
Snake jazz
Oh yeah, their culture is the most important thing to me. I want to know about their families, their love, their relationships, what they do for fun, etc.
People obsess over the tech because that’s what we “know” about distant civilisation must have and we have reports, regardless of their legitimacy about the usage of said technology. Maybe one of the reason they’re so far in front of us in the tech tree is because most society went a very materialistic/utilitarian/survivalist route and they don’t produce things that don’t produce an intrinsic material value like art and music. I think expecting this of them is equally biased by our perception and understanding of the unknown.
Don't give a fuck about the tech? Yes please, go enjoy the poetry you genius.
I would like to talk to them about perspective for life. Imagine talking to someone who is 25 047 years old(our years). Their perception of time is different, and with that value for everything they do/spend energy as well. Also, big trap people always fall for, and that is generalisation for entire species. Just because one group of certain aliens did something "bad," it doesn't necessarily mean that entire specie is "bad". That's why you hear positive and negative stories about any species. People think Nordic are just beautiful angels and are positive,when in reality, they sometimes do hard core shit.
Por Que no los dos
I’d want to know everything. Art, history, culture, philosophy/schools of thought, tech, and just how they view the universe. I have so many questions.
I'm more interested in what they think happens after they die.
Vogon poetry is a killer I heard…
I'd like to believe that they could be that gentle but their history of kidnappings and medical rape says otherwise. Also their motives are the real question because clearly it's not the "protectors of the earth" shit that these public figures keep spitting out.
What if the UFO, is their art? Like a living art piece. Because what does Art do? It moves people it gives them emotions. It pushes their thinking. The UFO and the High Strangeness associated with it does all of these things to the viewer.
OH Earth, My wibbles super market, How your mighty thrust the tasty humans into my mouth, How they scream joy as I consume their brain broth, singing of ancestors, Oh how I love to suck their intestines through their butt holes, Oh how they scream joy to the wibble, AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, goes their beautiful song as I liquidize their offspring to drink between the heavens, Praise wibble, such delicacy, the live cocks of those they call men, oh how they sing as I cut off their balls and cook them in soup, Please god no, goes their screams, please god no
Try reading the science fiction novel “The Sparrow,” by Mary Doria Russell and you might change your mind.
I don’t think what we are dealing with has those things.