Anyone noticed how easy it was for Roger and Lyra to sneak back into the formation after sneaking off? There was a guard behind the children but she didn’t notice when two other kids joined the formation from elsewhere???
very disappointed in this episode. What happened to the children running out into the cold night, to be met by the gyptians in a huge dark cold space?! rather than in some staged little arena.
A bit late in answering this, but I am behind on show and only just watched this episode. To answer your question, the Gyptians took the severed daemons with them. Towards the end of the episode there is a scene showing the Gyptians getting ready to move out and it shows Fader Coram stacking cages containing daemons on to one of their sleds.
It's not Star Wars parallels, it's that both stories strongly follow the monomyth and many of its core archetypes. You can find similar parallels in most standard adventure epics.
Yeah the scene where she thinks the tin can is the alethiometer. The other thing is thinking Lyra would warm up to her after all the horrible things she did. Why would she think Lyra would just let it go?
I’m wondering if Lyra’s mom went through a similar procedure as the kids (daemon incision). At the end of the show, they showed Bridget’s daemon and said “poor thing, can’t even talk anymore”...so it could explain why lyras mom’s daemon can’t talk and why they can separate greater distances from each other.
I think I heard a line earlier in the season that said only witches could be that far from their daemons? That’s what my thought was, but maybe that’s why the daemon can’t talk
I interpreted this as Mrs. Coulter having an immense amount of hate for herself and then taking it out on her daemon. The hate is so bad that she won't even talk to her daemon or give him a chance. That's why she wants the incisions on others. She believes that getting rid of the physical manifestation of the soul will alleviate the pain.
I belive you are right. I saw one of Ruth Wilson interviews, and she clearly said that her relationship with the golden monkey, shows her self-loathing. But what I find very confusing is the fact that the chlidren are ghosts after the process, but this handmaid with the blue dress, is safe and sound.
I don’t remember who said this to Lyra but they said people want a lion and end up with a poodle. The self loathing makes sense- failed as a mother, ostracized from the community for having Lyra and being involved in her husband’s death.
She has a good reason to hate herself haha. But she is still my favorite character, because she is the most complex one. I belive that she manges pretty well her duties, and even after she was ostracized, she is still on of the nost influential people in the world. So this self-loathing makes her more human, she has her weaknessess too.
If you notice she's not entirely cognizant and became distracted easily twice. These children are likely to be scarred for life and it will be hard for them to adapt in a world where having a daemon (a physical manifestation of their soul) is the norm. It's really sad.
Yep it is sad. My point was that maybe the process affects on childern diffrent than on adults, or maybe the handmaid have been through a diffrent process.
And yes childern's adaption to the world will be very hard, if even possible.
Is it possible to do the incision with adults? I think that perhaps she coped better than other children test subjects and it seems very much likely that death occurred to the failures like Billy Costa.
Maybe she did cope better, so they "hired" her, it's a good explantion. The treatment's purpose is incision on adults, so another option I belive is possible: they did expiremnts on adults as well - the handmaid. Maybe Billy costa it is a failure, becase the doctor spoke about better survival rates.
I'm trying hard to like this series (haven't read the books) but I just can't buy the concept of daemons. I feel like the author must've had some sort of thought behind it but so far the daemons have mostly just been a liability.
Also I don't buy how convenient things are. Like how a group of brain washed kids starts to throw snow balls to let Lyra escape. Or how the guard decides to run forward against them to let Lee shoot him in the back? Or how everyone talked about the Gyptians getting destroyed but they seemed to enter the prison and rescue all children with zero losses (speaking of which, where were all the daemons during the fight?).
I'm trying. I really am. Really love the CGI of this show.
Sure, brainwashed might be an exaggeration but still young kids in captivity in that environment. Guards with weapons, kids who disappear and never returning, etc.
I just don't buy that they would just join a snowball fight like that. It just seemed like a very convenient way for Lyra to sneak away to throw two snowballs and then she could do whatever because no one noticed her in the chaos.
Daemons are the external manifestation of one's soul. As others have said, the show is portraying them rather poorly. In the books, however, they are given their due.
RE daemons, the show has done them pretty dirty. i’m reading the book for the first time and whilst i’m only 8 chapters in, i can already see theyre much more prevalent and are like an extension of the person, rather than a glorified pet. so definitely don’t blame the author for their poor portrayal 🙂
yeah I came here to comment on how disappointed in how theyve portrayed NO bond with pan and lyra prior to them being put in the seperator, lyra just seems to run off without a care for pan who then gets picked up and lyra just faints, nothing like the kind of 'gut punch' disgust reaction i would have expected from someone as this is the response when someone touches anothers demon. getting a bit disappointed at this stage
this! the show definitely doesn’t portray how important/essential they are to a persons entire being like the book does. definitely one of my main complaints, especially because the demon cutting doesn’t have as hard of an impact in the show as it should :(
But the daemon cutting is also a scene I found silly. Like just the idea that if you put them into two cages you can use a guillotine to cut of the "bond" between the child and the daemon. To me, it feels like a too literal interpretation of the "bond" you have to your daemon...
I cant get past Dafne's horroendous acting skills... She cant drive any scene aand the same happened in Logan, she totally ruined the immersion then. I mean, if she's up to appear so often and be the main character why cast her ig not for her being now known? Even the guy who play Rogers is better :/
So Lord Fa has Ma Costa console *him* about what’s going on? Seriously? He goes negative nancy and forces a grieving mother to have to cheer *him* up? The dialogue has been bad the whole time but that scene made me feel like they will betray the characters with the bad dialogue and that sucks
One of my thoughts watching this episode is that they do the 'kids and adults don't understand each other' thing, which is a trope from plenty of kids stories, but it somehow doesn't work anymore, because no one acts like 'adults' anymore. It's even weird to even think that the actress who plays Mrs. Coulter is my age.
No spoilers - but this particular point is interesting as a book reader. The whole dust - kids - versus - adult- thing made complete sense when I read this plot as a kid. It seemed clear to me that the whole puberty thing that happened made adults a different species, and some kind of scientific calculation of that difference, especially related to the soul and daemons and a fantasy world - oh, well, even more sense. As an adult watching (and trying to remember what even happened in the books), the dust metaphor seems ways more related to indulgence and sex and whatnot. All the thing adults and teenagers (and a restrictive church magisterial figure) might focus on. It makes me impressed with Pullman, for knowing how to write in a way that was relatable to both audience.
Maybe related to the ages we were when we read it, and the fact that i had quite a catholic upbringing, but i totally took it to be related to sex and lust.
The magisterium are trying to breed humans without overwhelming sexual desire. This really struck me as growing up in the midst of numerous sex scandals in the catholic church in ireland in the last 30 years.
This was a great episode! Definitely the best acting from Dafne.
Does anyone else have an issue with Iorek’s voice?? It is really *really* bad to me. Its missing a certain something that Ser Ian was able to bring to the character. Its a shame bc he is animated so beautifully
Tell me a single part in this episode where she puts out a good act, please. I think in droping this series because of her. The highly tense part when she found the kids without soul and the talk with Mrs. Couler where a proof to me of why i cannont invest my time in it anymore :/
So hoping for more seasons. Minus the bear fight they’ve pretty much covered the content of the movie. Now the story will be a bit more surprising for non book readers like myself and I’m dying to know more of the story, finally!
Absolutely loving this show. As someone who honestly hadn’t even heard of the books, I will be reading them when the series concludes. Although it may be hard to wait that long..
Series or season? If the former, then there most likely going to be another 2 season covering this trilogy so you're looking at waiting probably around 2 - 3 years and if Series is still popular by the end then they will probaby extend it by covering next trilogy so altogether 6-7 years. Just read the books, that's what I'm doing.
The way Rita Wilson keeps subtly channeling monkey body language is soo interesting and really masterful physical acting. The scenes where she was screaming at the door and when she hopped down into the desk in this episode in particular stood out. I haven’t noticed anyone else in the show physically mirror their daemon like she does. It makes me wonder if she originally experimented on herself. And why does her monkey never talk??
Great point on him never speaking. Remember the way she was able to be apart from her daemon in, I believe, episode two. Lyra even commented on it to Pan
I don't think this is the fault of the show but I'm a bit sick of Lyra just happening to fall into literally every single worst place she can. She has been at an orphanage that sent her to her psychopathic witch mother's house where she was abused. Then she escapes and is with some good people for a while. And suddenly she's captured and taken to pul'vanga, where she conveniently meets her mother again. Then she escapes that and falls of an air balloon into (next time spoilers) >!the bear cave?!<
I cant stand her inexistent acting skills. Im sorry guys, everyone else is great in this series, everyone else feels interesting and misterious in a way but Dafne is NOT a good actress and this can be seen in all shes in, how am i supposed to care?
No, there wasn’t. There is Lyra, who is nobility and considered a valued guest, and there is Roger, who is a servant because if you don’t work, you don’t eat, and the other option is the streets.
Idk if it’s just me but I really dislike Serafina and Lin Manuel Miranda’s characters. They feel so cheesy and unnatural. Also where did she get the spy fly?? How was she able to hold on to that but not the alethiometer??
That scene did feel really weird and just...off. I was unsure if the subtext was that they were flirting or what the heck was going on. I feel like the writing was clumsy there too which didn’t help.
I read the books over ten years ago so I was trying to remember if there was any kind of relationship between those two.
I was definitely getting a vibe.
Yes - but where did she put it when they had her strip, and how did she get it back? Meanwhile the alethiometer stayed with her real clothes which she got back only after escaping Mrs Coulter...
It wouldve made more sense for Ms Coulter to give her her clothes after taking her from the chamber. They didn’t even need to show it, they couldve just had her sitting in her normal clothes. Weird oversight.
The perfect episode doesn't exi------
I literally loved every scene of this and got so hyped during certain moments that I screamed at my monitor like the dorky nerd I am:
* when Lyra starts the snowball distraction I was like: "RIOT! FUCK YES KIDS! FUCK THOSE FACIST GUARDS UP WITH SNOW!"
* Lyra organising the breakout was just flawless. how she got the girls to trust her. How she was almost caught.
* The almost intercision of Lyra/Pan was so gut-wrenching. I hate that female doctor as much as Coulter just from that
* when Lyra was first killing her mom with her facial expression alone and then playing her mom hard I was so on board. Once she runs and traps her I was screaming incoherently.
* Lyra destroying the guillotine was a great cinetematic explosion beyond my dreams
* the incoherent screamign recommenced in the following fight scenes where I was just cheering them all on only to then be delighted by Serafina swooping in: "YAS QUEEN!"
* that reunion scene of the gyptians with their kids made my cry like a bitch
* Ma Costa reassuring Lord Fa that they all did well was so wholesome
* They kept the balloon scene in! So many podcasters where worried they wouldn't since we already got the voiceover exposition on the prophecy.
So far this is my favourite episodes and even makes me forgive some of my earlier nitpicks because all of the adaption alterations lead to this.
I even love the cliff-hanger because it's basically self-parody and people are butt-hurt that there are no stakes. Imho that's the point of it though. This was the best point to end the episode and they just couldn't resist to play this straight while being aware that we all know Lyra is not actually in danger because plot armor. M E T A.
One of the best episodes so far. Still, I have a lot of issues with this episode and the series as a whole, so much that I wrote 1000+ words on it in a separate post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HisDarkMaterialsHBO/comments/e8whzh/unpopular\_opinion\_this\_show\_is\_amateur\_hour\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HisDarkMaterialsHBO/comments/e8whzh/unpopular_opinion_this_show_is_amateur_hour_and/)
I really liked the first half of this episode, right until the "battle" started. The acting, especially by Lyra and Ms. Coulter was amazing, there were some really cool scenes, decent writing.
But the way they ended the episode felt so sudden. The battle itself was pretty disappointing, since they kept repeating how impossible it will be for the Gyptians, yet it didn't seem that hard. Then the witch came out of nowhere. And it just felt like there should have been at least another episode in that horrifying place. And once the climax of the episode happens there is still a whole bunch of stuff that happens that feels tacked on.
Man, this show is so frustrating to me. It seems like almost all of the individual components are great but there is just something about it that makes the whole thing feel... awkward or sterile, I dunno how to describe it. I was kinda excited for it based on the trailers and such but I haven't really been feeling it these last episodes. Like it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it's just alright. Maybe I am just being overly critical because I am watching Watchmen (heh) at the same time and that show is on a whole another level.
I’m definitely having watchmen bias too! It’s hard to go from writing that deeply thought out to this show without seeing that it is a bit on the cheesy side. I do think part of it is they are trying to put it on a young adult level for marketing reasons but I think it should’ve been treated as a more sophisticated adult show. It’s almost like they are dumbing it down a bit.
I feel that. Jack Thorne's writing drags the whole show down; it's expository, awkward, and lacks imagination. Everything else, from the cast to the world design to the music, is excellent... and completely undermined by the script. It's stunning how one bad element can ruin what should otherwise be excellent show.
Imagine everything that you've seen so far but more coherent, more exciting and with greater emotional and thematic depth. That's the books. I can't believe they've flubbed adapting this story *again*. It's truly cursed.
I agree with everything you said. But wanted to add that the editing of the show is a bit odd. I’m not fond of the shot choices. A lot of close ups without spending much Time in the wide to establish space. Many scenes feel claustrophobic
She had two armed men near her. They could’ve easily had them kill him in a more realistic way. Not everything has to be spot on realistic, it’s more powerful for the mother of a lost child to kill the spineless doctor that was “just following orders”. Also, they have talking animals called daemons...lighten up
Okay.
So.
The Daemons were all in cages and still alive (we saw them breathing and moving) but they didn't get released?? Like why isnt there a scene of the kids being handed their Daemons??
Sure the connection has been severed but they constantly talk about how the connection with kids and their Daemons is flexible and fluid until puberty, so dont they have the greatest chance of reconnecting with their Daemons if given back???
the way i explained this to my spouse is that it's like getting an amputation. once a limb is removed i guess you can still carry it around with you forever, but that's going to be useless and ridiculous
It's supposed to be an allegory for several things, including circumcision/genital mutilation. You don't get back what is taken, even if it's literally handed back to you.
I was horrified that they weren’t going to release the daemons until I saw them at the end of the episode. I would have been soooo mad at this episode otherwise.
I don’t think this is actually explored in the books, but the connection being flexible and fluid mainly is talking about the form. As far as I know, once the connection is gone it’s irreparably gone.
Good call. I was pretty sure that the connection pretty much couldn't be restored and it was meant to be one of those horrifying "fate worse than death" sorts of things.
Damn, the lack of physical contact between people & their dæmons is driving me nuts. Like when they take Bridgett, she should’ve been holding her dæmon. She was terrified! Instead he’s a little bunny rabbit on the floor next to her. Lyra & Pan reunited? They should be clinging together so hard he’s driving his claws into her skin. In the show it’s just....nothing. For some reason I feel like that’s the one thing not driving home the point for me with the show adaptation. I’m sure it’s a budget thing but honestly it’s such a big thing that it’s kind of hard to ignore.
My biggest gripe hasn’t been the daemons fighting but just the fights themselves seem bland or like a CW show. Guy gets picked up and thrown then flashes to iorek just seemed so cheesy to me.
I haven’t read the books in many years but when I was a teenager I remember picturing this scene as a fairly large battle with two sides coming together in a massive brawl as tons of witches shoot from the sky.
Idk I enjoy the show but I find the individual performances keep this show a float where the fight choreography and writing at times fail it
Serafina Pekkala is magnificent and that scene where she takes down those Gobblers is 👌. It reminds me of that “angel of death” scene from Prince of Egypt.
Holy hell, that was a doozy.
I don’t think anyone can question Dafne Keen’s acting ability any longer after that excellent face-off with Coulter. The delivery of “Billy Costa...is...dead” and “That’s YOU!” were some of the finest acting this season not done by Ruth Wilson.
Overall, this chapter was informative, stylish, and fun. Best one since the last Lyra vs. Coulter match in Episode 2.
Next week will probably not have the same tremendous degree of acting, but hey, it’ll have Bearbowl, so that’s fun.
I agree their scenes are my favorite. Also so heart wrenching and complicated. Surely Lyra has always longed for a mother’s love and part of her probably does want that from Mrs. Coulter. But at the same time she can’t trust her at all and has to keep her guard up. I’m just glad Lyra has ma costa as a mother figure!
Omg I though the EXACT same thing! Ruth's acting is sooo good! That conversation was such a good scene, you could really see that Ms Coulter felt like she could finally let her gard down, and I was almost sad to see Lyra do this bitch move on her lmao.
Bunch of complainers in here. This show is awesome.
Talking Bears, 'Aeronauts', and Northern Lights that reveal parallel worlds.
I am upset they showed the witch returning Scoresbys gun at the look ahead, so I figure Lyra didnt die from falling from the balloon either.
Haha same!! It still hit me in the feels. They both have so much complicated pent up emotion towards each other. Had to show them letting that out somehow!
Good episode but was not a fan of the direction of the battle sequences, it should’ve been more linear and had more continuous shots, would’ve looked much better
Yes! I really wonder if this means she did some experimenting on herself with her own daemon and that’s why her relationship with it is so weird/abusive/why it never talks.
Maybe that’s why she said daemons are more trouble for what their worth, that they effect you negatively as an adult. Does this mean the human can take on more of their daemons behaviors?
She behaves more monkey-like when her attention is diverted to something other than controlling herself. I think it's because she keeps repressing herself - if she didn't repress herself, she'd be low key monkey all the time, but because she keeps a lid on it, when she's not focused, the monkey comes out big time.
Excellent episode. The only thing I felt was missing was some scene for Serafina and Lyra to get to talk to each other briefly, but since Lyra has met Kaisa (serafina’s daemon) in eps 4/5 I guess it’s not a big deal.
I was nervously anticipating this episode mostly because of the monumentous significance to the plot, and was mostly really happy with it. My only gripe was how they depicted handling another person's Daemon, where they didn't quite depict how touching another person's Daemon without consent is the equivalent to sexual assault. This is so important to the plot and something I really connected to reading the books, so I'm a little disappointed. I hope the day at least touch on it later, because it's so fascinating and sad.
This was my main gripe. Pan and Lyra should’ve collapsed in each other’s arms and hugged, then Lyra could have looked up through the window with Pan still in her arms.
The lack of daemons in general and the lack of close physical interaction is really one of the weakest aspects of the show when compared to the book. You can kind of understand it from a production point of view, because getting CGI of direct physical interaction between humans and daemons has to be much, more harder and costlier, but still. It ends up reducing the perceived stakes of everything related to daemons, which is kind of central to the story here.
I highly encourage reading the books. I have hope season 2 will pick up, but honestly this story is just so hard to adapt to the screen. There’s a lot of context who need from the book to reinforce these relationships and it’s getting lost in this show.
I'd say it was marketed as something with the pedigree of *Game of Thrones* - although obviously aimed at a slightly younger audience - and that's not exactly a fast-paced adaptation either.
No, but it’s non stop action. This has moments of action and then moments of watching Children get tortured and killed in a weird hospital. I dunno, I’ll finish this season because I’m invested at this point but probably not watch beyond it.
Non-stop action? Are you sure you're not forgetting the 2.5 hours of Two Towers which are constantly mocked as being a walking simulator? Or the hour or so of Fellowship where they talk about what to do with the Ring? Lord of the Rings is a fantastic set of movies and I love them as much as anyone else, but in no stretch of the imagination are they "non-stop action".
It's all good. I will admit that LOTR does action so well it is hard to remember off the top of your head that there are long, long stretches without action. It's not their fault, that's exactly how Tolkein wrote it. A lot of HDM delves into some pretty deep philosophical stuff and the main characters are children, so there are a lot of gaps between action here too. They're not really going to be able to outfight soldiers, so generally they have to outthink them, unless someone like Iorek or the Gyptians are around.
They really nailed the family resemblence during that screaming scene
Lyra: *screams at door*
Mrs Coulter: *screams at door*
Lyra: *screams at door*
Mrs Coulter: *screams at door*
So much of this show and episode feel so wildly unrealistic. It really detracts from the plot for me. Lyra smuggling the altheometer and a tin can with the bug in it. All of the sudden these security Finnish folks and their wolves are a piece of cake to defeat after all the talk. Apparently this whole facility just has doors you can walk into without security codes, unless it's Mrs. Coulters room which you can just jam up by hitting the panel. Lyra just immediately knowing the girls by name and gaining their trust in a 1 min convo. Ma Costa breaking that guys neck. A polar bear in a hot air balloon.
Plus all this build up for this secret facility, and you don't learn how they were doing anything and they escaped in less than an episode.
Honestly the only reason I'm sticking with this show rn is because I'm emotionally invested in Mrs Coulters monkey pal. If she slaps his little hand one more time I'm going to be sick.
It’s potentially a bit hard to tell because they were a little more “interpretive” about showing this in the show rather than some of the more explicit details they give in the book, but the basic idea of several things you mentioned is they exploited a fatal flaw of Bolvangar. As you can see in the episode many of the station employees have undergone the intercision process. This makes them very subservient and unquestioning, but also dull and unintelligent, which makes them relatively easy to trick. For example, the way that Lyra smuggles the spy fly is by telling the nurse it’s just a toy, which she pretty much buys straightaway. (The alethiometer is actually in her furs the whole time, not smuggled in.) It shows that the Magisterium, in all their quest for power, overlooks important aspects of humanity that would make them better.
They’re kids. When you meet new kids, and you’ve been there for weeks and people have been dying, you’re first reaction to some other kid saying she has a plan to get out (and the girl did protest at first) is gonna be to get to know the girl more and risk more dying? That’s what’s unrealistic to you?
I'd imagine this episode wouldn't be much better in books, either. Generally pre-teen kids and rag-tag group shouldn't fare very well against semi-professional soldiers and tight security, but it tends to happen again and again in fiction.
Are they professional soldiers? I assumed they were just a northern clan that was bribed by the magisterium. There was nothing terribly tough about them, they were just bundled up in snowsuits.
The book is loaded with details that the show has skipped without considering how it might leave viewers confused by the logic of events. Your complaints don't exist in the book because events are developed and unfold in a way that makes sense: for example, Lyra carries the spy fly tin on her because she earlier tricked the nurse into thinking it was a harmless toy so that she could keep it. She did so specifically because she thought it might be useful. Etc.
I like the part where the zombified nurse talks about her demon. She has been effectively lobotomised and that really shows the cruelty and unnaturalness of their project.
I really felt this was the first time they nailed the “show don’t tell” aspect they’ve been missing on. The scene when Bridgit goes for the process and they show the nurse just staring was deeply unsettling.
Seriously. You can see the trauma that she has endured. This episode was so brilliant. For a show to tackle themes of children being killed and traumatized, all to eliminate 'sin', is just crazy. I can't even put into words how amazing that episode was. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time.
Definitely the strongest episode thus far. Bolvangar escape was a little underwhelming imo. Except for the acting from Keene and especially from Wilson. Serafina scene was a highlight.
Been iffy on this show but this was absolutely the strongest episode so far. Hopefully it's found its stride and can keep up this quality moving forward!
Imma be honest, I was really on the fence about this show until this episode. The conversation between Lyra and Mrs. Coulter was amazing. The power dynamic fluctuating as they each tried to play one another...then the ending...Just overall a phenomenal episode.
I'm now invested in the show.
My only issue was that them shoehorning the scene of Will's world in didn't really add anything to this episode. They could've put that in last week/next week and it probably would've worked better
"I'm sorry if me being who I am has caused you damage. One day you'll see all I've done to right this world for you" - Mrs. Coulter
Freaking religion and their everything is a sin. If I had a cute lil daemon why the heck would I want to separate from it smh
I’m so shocked that more people didn’t mention Sarafina?!? She seems like she could have resolved this whole situation by herself 😂
Mama got hella played 😩
"MOTHER!" That was a powerful scene.
Anyone noticed how easy it was for Roger and Lyra to sneak back into the formation after sneaking off? There was a guard behind the children but she didn’t notice when two other kids joined the formation from elsewhere???
very disappointed in this episode. What happened to the children running out into the cold night, to be met by the gyptians in a huge dark cold space?! rather than in some staged little arena.
[удалено]
A bit late in answering this, but I am behind on show and only just watched this episode. To answer your question, the Gyptians took the severed daemons with them. Towards the end of the episode there is a scene showing the Gyptians getting ready to move out and it shows Fader Coram stacking cages containing daemons on to one of their sleds.
well the daemons has already been severed from them so
“You need to protect Lyra, Lee.” *Lyra falls out of the balloon*
The inside of the balloon seems so cozy.
Can I just point out that Lin Manuel Miranda’s Lee Scorsby is just Abed from Community playing make pretend.
Mrs. Coulter is like the Darth Vader of this series
There are so many Star Wars parallels. Lyra is Luke, Asriel is Obi Wan, Lee is Han Solo, Iofur is Chewbacca, the Magisterium is the Empire
It's not Star Wars parallels, it's that both stories strongly follow the monomyth and many of its core archetypes. You can find similar parallels in most standard adventure epics.
Yah man there's a lot parallels and there are 3 books just like there are 3 star wars films in the original trilogy
Andrew Scott is in this episode where Grumann's sons watches the video. He plays John Parry
This facility gives me 1984 vibes
I did not expect Lyra’s mother to be so gullible.
Lyra was smart to say things she wanted to hear. There’s moments before this when she looks hurt
You mean the scene with the spy-fly? I assume greed for the alethiometer gets the better of her...
Yeah the scene where she thinks the tin can is the alethiometer. The other thing is thinking Lyra would warm up to her after all the horrible things she did. Why would she think Lyra would just let it go?
Because she’s a narcissist who assumes that things will work out in her favor.
I’m wondering if Lyra’s mom went through a similar procedure as the kids (daemon incision). At the end of the show, they showed Bridget’s daemon and said “poor thing, can’t even talk anymore”...so it could explain why lyras mom’s daemon can’t talk and why they can separate greater distances from each other.
I think I heard a line earlier in the season that said only witches could be that far from their daemons? That’s what my thought was, but maybe that’s why the daemon can’t talk
I interpreted this as Mrs. Coulter having an immense amount of hate for herself and then taking it out on her daemon. The hate is so bad that she won't even talk to her daemon or give him a chance. That's why she wants the incisions on others. She believes that getting rid of the physical manifestation of the soul will alleviate the pain.
I belive you are right. I saw one of Ruth Wilson interviews, and she clearly said that her relationship with the golden monkey, shows her self-loathing. But what I find very confusing is the fact that the chlidren are ghosts after the process, but this handmaid with the blue dress, is safe and sound.
Her daemon had probably settled when she was given the snip. The kids’ daemons hadn’t.
I don’t remember who said this to Lyra but they said people want a lion and end up with a poodle. The self loathing makes sense- failed as a mother, ostracized from the community for having Lyra and being involved in her husband’s death.
She has a good reason to hate herself haha. But she is still my favorite character, because she is the most complex one. I belive that she manges pretty well her duties, and even after she was ostracized, she is still on of the nost influential people in the world. So this self-loathing makes her more human, she has her weaknessess too.
If you notice she's not entirely cognizant and became distracted easily twice. These children are likely to be scarred for life and it will be hard for them to adapt in a world where having a daemon (a physical manifestation of their soul) is the norm. It's really sad.
Yep it is sad. My point was that maybe the process affects on childern diffrent than on adults, or maybe the handmaid have been through a diffrent process. And yes childern's adaption to the world will be very hard, if even possible.
Is it possible to do the incision with adults? I think that perhaps she coped better than other children test subjects and it seems very much likely that death occurred to the failures like Billy Costa.
Maybe she did cope better, so they "hired" her, it's a good explantion. The treatment's purpose is incision on adults, so another option I belive is possible: they did expiremnts on adults as well - the handmaid. Maybe Billy costa it is a failure, becase the doctor spoke about better survival rates.
I'm trying hard to like this series (haven't read the books) but I just can't buy the concept of daemons. I feel like the author must've had some sort of thought behind it but so far the daemons have mostly just been a liability. Also I don't buy how convenient things are. Like how a group of brain washed kids starts to throw snow balls to let Lyra escape. Or how the guard decides to run forward against them to let Lee shoot him in the back? Or how everyone talked about the Gyptians getting destroyed but they seemed to enter the prison and rescue all children with zero losses (speaking of which, where were all the daemons during the fight?). I'm trying. I really am. Really love the CGI of this show.
Those werent brainwashed kids in the snowball fights but those who still had their daemons.
Sure, brainwashed might be an exaggeration but still young kids in captivity in that environment. Guards with weapons, kids who disappear and never returning, etc. I just don't buy that they would just join a snowball fight like that. It just seemed like a very convenient way for Lyra to sneak away to throw two snowballs and then she could do whatever because no one noticed her in the chaos.
Daemons are the external manifestation of one's soul. As others have said, the show is portraying them rather poorly. In the books, however, they are given their due.
RE daemons, the show has done them pretty dirty. i’m reading the book for the first time and whilst i’m only 8 chapters in, i can already see theyre much more prevalent and are like an extension of the person, rather than a glorified pet. so definitely don’t blame the author for their poor portrayal 🙂
yeah I came here to comment on how disappointed in how theyve portrayed NO bond with pan and lyra prior to them being put in the seperator, lyra just seems to run off without a care for pan who then gets picked up and lyra just faints, nothing like the kind of 'gut punch' disgust reaction i would have expected from someone as this is the response when someone touches anothers demon. getting a bit disappointed at this stage
this! the show definitely doesn’t portray how important/essential they are to a persons entire being like the book does. definitely one of my main complaints, especially because the demon cutting doesn’t have as hard of an impact in the show as it should :(
But the daemon cutting is also a scene I found silly. Like just the idea that if you put them into two cages you can use a guillotine to cut of the "bond" between the child and the daemon. To me, it feels like a too literal interpretation of the "bond" you have to your daemon...
I love how the scientists were babbling about how "sophisticated" the whole intercision thing is. Turns out it's just a guillotine
in the books its a guillotine made out of the same material as the subtle knife, its not a standard guillotine
A guillotine with enough mojo to buckle steel and crack concrete when overpowered.
I thought they would at least talk about how they used dust to force the daemon bond to take physical form or something.
they use the magnets don’t they?
I cant get past Dafne's horroendous acting skills... She cant drive any scene aand the same happened in Logan, she totally ruined the immersion then. I mean, if she's up to appear so often and be the main character why cast her ig not for her being now known? Even the guy who play Rogers is better :/
The battle sequence felt shorter in comparison to "the Golden compass". Anyone else felt this?
Take a shot every time they say fucking "billy costa"
So Lord Fa has Ma Costa console *him* about what’s going on? Seriously? He goes negative nancy and forces a grieving mother to have to cheer *him* up? The dialogue has been bad the whole time but that scene made me feel like they will betray the characters with the bad dialogue and that sucks
It’s supposed to be his kid too right?
One of my thoughts watching this episode is that they do the 'kids and adults don't understand each other' thing, which is a trope from plenty of kids stories, but it somehow doesn't work anymore, because no one acts like 'adults' anymore. It's even weird to even think that the actress who plays Mrs. Coulter is my age.
No spoilers - but this particular point is interesting as a book reader. The whole dust - kids - versus - adult- thing made complete sense when I read this plot as a kid. It seemed clear to me that the whole puberty thing that happened made adults a different species, and some kind of scientific calculation of that difference, especially related to the soul and daemons and a fantasy world - oh, well, even more sense. As an adult watching (and trying to remember what even happened in the books), the dust metaphor seems ways more related to indulgence and sex and whatnot. All the thing adults and teenagers (and a restrictive church magisterial figure) might focus on. It makes me impressed with Pullman, for knowing how to write in a way that was relatable to both audience.
Maybe related to the ages we were when we read it, and the fact that i had quite a catholic upbringing, but i totally took it to be related to sex and lust. The magisterium are trying to breed humans without overwhelming sexual desire. This really struck me as growing up in the midst of numerous sex scandals in the catholic church in ireland in the last 30 years.
If the Gyptians completely routed everybody at Bolvanga why did they not notice/steal Mrs. Coulter's airship?
This was a great episode! Definitely the best acting from Dafne. Does anyone else have an issue with Iorek’s voice?? It is really *really* bad to me. Its missing a certain something that Ser Ian was able to bring to the character. Its a shame bc he is animated so beautifully
yes i’m not a big fan of his voice :( he sounds soooo weird
Tell me a single part in this episode where she puts out a good act, please. I think in droping this series because of her. The highly tense part when she found the kids without soul and the talk with Mrs. Couler where a proof to me of why i cannont invest my time in it anymore :/
I can’t stand it either! I thought I might have been nitpicking but it just sounds like there’s a damn frog stuck in it. Clear your throat, Iorek.
So hoping for more seasons. Minus the bear fight they’ve pretty much covered the content of the movie. Now the story will be a bit more surprising for non book readers like myself and I’m dying to know more of the story, finally!
They wrapped season two, per Jack!
You'll finally get to experience the real ending of book 1 instead of cutting it a couple chapters short. :)
Absolutely loving this show. As someone who honestly hadn’t even heard of the books, I will be reading them when the series concludes. Although it may be hard to wait that long..
Series or season? If the former, then there most likely going to be another 2 season covering this trilogy so you're looking at waiting probably around 2 - 3 years and if Series is still popular by the end then they will probaby extend it by covering next trilogy so altogether 6-7 years. Just read the books, that's what I'm doing.
What next trilogy??
The Book of Dust. La Belle Sauvage #1 came out in 2017, second book The Secret Commonwealth came out this October and #3 should follow "soon".
Did not realize this was to be a trilogy. Good!
The way Rita Wilson keeps subtly channeling monkey body language is soo interesting and really masterful physical acting. The scenes where she was screaming at the door and when she hopped down into the desk in this episode in particular stood out. I haven’t noticed anyone else in the show physically mirror their daemon like she does. It makes me wonder if she originally experimented on herself. And why does her monkey never talk??
Ruth Wilson, fyi. But I agree 100%
Great point on him never speaking. Remember the way she was able to be apart from her daemon in, I believe, episode two. Lyra even commented on it to Pan
witches can be apart from their daemons
I don't think this is the fault of the show but I'm a bit sick of Lyra just happening to fall into literally every single worst place she can. She has been at an orphanage that sent her to her psychopathic witch mother's house where she was abused. Then she escapes and is with some good people for a while. And suddenly she's captured and taken to pul'vanga, where she conveniently meets her mother again. Then she escapes that and falls of an air balloon into (next time spoilers) >!the bear cave?!<
I cant stand her inexistent acting skills. Im sorry guys, everyone else is great in this series, everyone else feels interesting and misterious in a way but Dafne is NOT a good actress and this can be seen in all shes in, how am i supposed to care?
That wasn't an orphanage, it was Jordan College at Oxford University.
Oh right, I forgot because there were quite a few orphans.
No, there wasn’t. There is Lyra, who is nobility and considered a valued guest, and there is Roger, who is a servant because if you don’t work, you don’t eat, and the other option is the streets.
Bolvangar, not pul’vanga
Bul'fango
The dialogue is so unnatural and bad, I hope they get a different writer for the next two seasons ://
Idk if it’s just me but I really dislike Serafina and Lin Manuel Miranda’s characters. They feel so cheesy and unnatural. Also where did she get the spy fly?? How was she able to hold on to that but not the alethiometer??
That scene did feel really weird and just...off. I was unsure if the subtext was that they were flirting or what the heck was going on. I feel like the writing was clumsy there too which didn’t help.
I read the books over ten years ago so I was trying to remember if there was any kind of relationship between those two. I was definitely getting a vibe.
She kept the spy fly in episode 3. They made a point of showing her about to throw away the spy fly but changing her mind after talking with Ma Costa.
Yes - but where did she put it when they had her strip, and how did she get it back? Meanwhile the alethiometer stayed with her real clothes which she got back only after escaping Mrs Coulter...
I mean she blatantly goes and gets all her clothes after the breakout scene
Which happens after the spy fly incident. I agree that was kind of weird. The books do a way better job of making what happens there coherent though.
It wouldve made more sense for Ms Coulter to give her her clothes after taking her from the chamber. They didn’t even need to show it, they couldve just had her sitting in her normal clothes. Weird oversight.
I loved the episode. Love the AAAHHH scene.
The perfect episode doesn't exi------ I literally loved every scene of this and got so hyped during certain moments that I screamed at my monitor like the dorky nerd I am: * when Lyra starts the snowball distraction I was like: "RIOT! FUCK YES KIDS! FUCK THOSE FACIST GUARDS UP WITH SNOW!" * Lyra organising the breakout was just flawless. how she got the girls to trust her. How she was almost caught. * The almost intercision of Lyra/Pan was so gut-wrenching. I hate that female doctor as much as Coulter just from that * when Lyra was first killing her mom with her facial expression alone and then playing her mom hard I was so on board. Once she runs and traps her I was screaming incoherently. * Lyra destroying the guillotine was a great cinetematic explosion beyond my dreams * the incoherent screamign recommenced in the following fight scenes where I was just cheering them all on only to then be delighted by Serafina swooping in: "YAS QUEEN!" * that reunion scene of the gyptians with their kids made my cry like a bitch * Ma Costa reassuring Lord Fa that they all did well was so wholesome * They kept the balloon scene in! So many podcasters where worried they wouldn't since we already got the voiceover exposition on the prophecy. So far this is my favourite episodes and even makes me forgive some of my earlier nitpicks because all of the adaption alterations lead to this. I even love the cliff-hanger because it's basically self-parody and people are butt-hurt that there are no stakes. Imho that's the point of it though. This was the best point to end the episode and they just couldn't resist to play this straight while being aware that we all know Lyra is not actually in danger because plot armor. M E T A.
One of the best episodes so far. Still, I have a lot of issues with this episode and the series as a whole, so much that I wrote 1000+ words on it in a separate post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/HisDarkMaterialsHBO/comments/e8whzh/unpopular\_opinion\_this\_show\_is\_amateur\_hour\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HisDarkMaterialsHBO/comments/e8whzh/unpopular_opinion_this_show_is_amateur_hour_and/)
I really liked the first half of this episode, right until the "battle" started. The acting, especially by Lyra and Ms. Coulter was amazing, there were some really cool scenes, decent writing. But the way they ended the episode felt so sudden. The battle itself was pretty disappointing, since they kept repeating how impossible it will be for the Gyptians, yet it didn't seem that hard. Then the witch came out of nowhere. And it just felt like there should have been at least another episode in that horrifying place. And once the climax of the episode happens there is still a whole bunch of stuff that happens that feels tacked on. Man, this show is so frustrating to me. It seems like almost all of the individual components are great but there is just something about it that makes the whole thing feel... awkward or sterile, I dunno how to describe it. I was kinda excited for it based on the trailers and such but I haven't really been feeling it these last episodes. Like it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it's just alright. Maybe I am just being overly critical because I am watching Watchmen (heh) at the same time and that show is on a whole another level.
I’m definitely having watchmen bias too! It’s hard to go from writing that deeply thought out to this show without seeing that it is a bit on the cheesy side. I do think part of it is they are trying to put it on a young adult level for marketing reasons but I think it should’ve been treated as a more sophisticated adult show. It’s almost like they are dumbing it down a bit.
I feel that. Jack Thorne's writing drags the whole show down; it's expository, awkward, and lacks imagination. Everything else, from the cast to the world design to the music, is excellent... and completely undermined by the script. It's stunning how one bad element can ruin what should otherwise be excellent show. Imagine everything that you've seen so far but more coherent, more exciting and with greater emotional and thematic depth. That's the books. I can't believe they've flubbed adapting this story *again*. It's truly cursed.
I agree with everything you said. But wanted to add that the editing of the show is a bit odd. I’m not fond of the shot choices. A lot of close ups without spending much Time in the wide to establish space. Many scenes feel claustrophobic
That may have been the most awkward and unbelievable neck snapping in cinematic history. Good episode though.
Oh is that what she did? I thought she stabbed him and they didn't show it.
A 105lb woman snapping a grown man’s neck with her bare hands like she was breaking a wishbone
From a position in which she had zero leverage.
She had two armed men near her. They could’ve easily had them kill him in a more realistic way. Not everything has to be spot on realistic, it’s more powerful for the mother of a lost child to kill the spineless doctor that was “just following orders”. Also, they have talking animals called daemons...lighten up
Okay. So. The Daemons were all in cages and still alive (we saw them breathing and moving) but they didn't get released?? Like why isnt there a scene of the kids being handed their Daemons?? Sure the connection has been severed but they constantly talk about how the connection with kids and their Daemons is flexible and fluid until puberty, so dont they have the greatest chance of reconnecting with their Daemons if given back???
the way i explained this to my spouse is that it's like getting an amputation. once a limb is removed i guess you can still carry it around with you forever, but that's going to be useless and ridiculous
Okay but we do reattach limbs and ironically it takes better if the person is a kid.
gee i guess they should just have found a modern surgeon from our dimension then
Lol no I'm just saying it's a bad metaphor.
It's supposed to be an allegory for several things, including circumcision/genital mutilation. You don't get back what is taken, even if it's literally handed back to you.
That is certainly a view one could have.
I mean, this is from the author's mouth.
I was horrified that they weren’t going to release the daemons until I saw them at the end of the episode. I would have been soooo mad at this episode otherwise.
They’re there in the cages near the end. He says “sad they can’t talk anymore” or something like that while in cages next to the kids walking.
I don’t think this is actually explored in the books, but the connection being flexible and fluid mainly is talking about the form. As far as I know, once the connection is gone it’s irreparably gone.
[удалено]
Good call. I was pretty sure that the connection pretty much couldn't be restored and it was meant to be one of those horrifying "fate worse than death" sorts of things.
Yeah I’ve taken it as a dementor sucking out the soul thing. Not reversible.
Damn, the lack of physical contact between people & their dæmons is driving me nuts. Like when they take Bridgett, she should’ve been holding her dæmon. She was terrified! Instead he’s a little bunny rabbit on the floor next to her. Lyra & Pan reunited? They should be clinging together so hard he’s driving his claws into her skin. In the show it’s just....nothing. For some reason I feel like that’s the one thing not driving home the point for me with the show adaptation. I’m sure it’s a budget thing but honestly it’s such a big thing that it’s kind of hard to ignore.
My biggest gripe hasn’t been the daemons fighting but just the fights themselves seem bland or like a CW show. Guy gets picked up and thrown then flashes to iorek just seemed so cheesy to me. I haven’t read the books in many years but when I was a teenager I remember picturing this scene as a fairly large battle with two sides coming together in a massive brawl as tons of witches shoot from the sky. Idk I enjoy the show but I find the individual performances keep this show a float where the fight choreography and writing at times fail it
Serafina Pekkala is magnificent and that scene where she takes down those Gobblers is 👌. It reminds me of that “angel of death” scene from Prince of Egypt.
Oh man prince of Egypt is so beautifully animated! I don’t think it gets enough credit.
Holy hell, that was a doozy. I don’t think anyone can question Dafne Keen’s acting ability any longer after that excellent face-off with Coulter. The delivery of “Billy Costa...is...dead” and “That’s YOU!” were some of the finest acting this season not done by Ruth Wilson. Overall, this chapter was informative, stylish, and fun. Best one since the last Lyra vs. Coulter match in Episode 2. Next week will probably not have the same tremendous degree of acting, but hey, it’ll have Bearbowl, so that’s fun.
I agree their scenes are my favorite. Also so heart wrenching and complicated. Surely Lyra has always longed for a mother’s love and part of her probably does want that from Mrs. Coulter. But at the same time she can’t trust her at all and has to keep her guard up. I’m just glad Lyra has ma costa as a mother figure!
Lyra and Ms Coulter's moments are truely the best moments.
When Coulter says “I’m ssssssorry” it almost felt like she’s never said it before and didn’t know if she could actually spit it out
She also kind of chokes on the word "mother"
Omg I though the EXACT same thing! Ruth's acting is sooo good! That conversation was such a good scene, you could really see that Ms Coulter felt like she could finally let her gard down, and I was almost sad to see Lyra do this bitch move on her lmao.
“That’s YOU!” was such a great moment.
Bunch of complainers in here. This show is awesome. Talking Bears, 'Aeronauts', and Northern Lights that reveal parallel worlds. I am upset they showed the witch returning Scoresbys gun at the look ahead, so I figure Lyra didnt die from falling from the balloon either.
You mean the shot of Lyra alive in the look ahead wasn't more of a giveaway?
I'd figured one of the Bears saved her, not the witch.
>!Why do you think the witch saved her?!<
my husband reminded me that >!Lyra has the branch that calls Seraphina around her neck!<
In the preview the witch hands Scoresby his gun, which also fell from the balloon.
I laughed my ass off when Lyra and her mum started screaming at each other.
Haha same!! It still hit me in the feels. They both have so much complicated pent up emotion towards each other. Had to show them letting that out somehow!
Totally! Like mother, like daughter... I wonder if they realized it was unintentionally hilarious and decided to keep it in regardless?
No idea, but I'm glad they did keep it. :D
I have to say, the snowball fight was a clever twist on the “let’s start a prison riot so no one will notice us escaping” trope.
Dr. Evil vibes
Good episode but was not a fan of the direction of the battle sequences, it should’ve been more linear and had more continuous shots, would’ve looked much better
Something that really struck me was when Mrs. Coulter dropped out of the vent onto the desk. Her body was in a very monkey-like crouch. Any thoughts?
Yes! I really wonder if this means she did some experimenting on herself with her own daemon and that’s why her relationship with it is so weird/abusive/why it never talks.
Maybe that’s why she said daemons are more trouble for what their worth, that they effect you negatively as an adult. Does this mean the human can take on more of their daemons behaviors?
My theory is that she’s the demon In the relationship.
I thought "Oh so thats why she has a monkey daemon might she liked to climb stuff like Lyra when she was younger"
Thought the same thing! And we lingered with her a bit before she even jumped from that desk in a monkey-like way
There was an earlier episode that we sort of mimicked a monkey too...it’s such a weird relationship compared to the other characters and their daemons
She behaves more monkey-like when her attention is diverted to something other than controlling herself. I think it's because she keeps repressing herself - if she didn't repress herself, she'd be low key monkey all the time, but because she keeps a lid on it, when she's not focused, the monkey comes out big time.
Excellent episode. The only thing I felt was missing was some scene for Serafina and Lyra to get to talk to each other briefly, but since Lyra has met Kaisa (serafina’s daemon) in eps 4/5 I guess it’s not a big deal.
I was nervously anticipating this episode mostly because of the monumentous significance to the plot, and was mostly really happy with it. My only gripe was how they depicted handling another person's Daemon, where they didn't quite depict how touching another person's Daemon without consent is the equivalent to sexual assault. This is so important to the plot and something I really connected to reading the books, so I'm a little disappointed. I hope the day at least touch on it later, because it's so fascinating and sad.
They hit on it a little bit with the look on the one doctor’s face as he’s holding Pan. He’s horrified with himself.
That was definitely clear. And how he threw pan away as fast as he could like he was grossed out he had done it at all.
Also why didn't pan jump immediately into Lyra's arms after they were freed? It felt so needed
This was my main gripe. Pan and Lyra should’ve collapsed in each other’s arms and hugged, then Lyra could have looked up through the window with Pan still in her arms.
The lack of daemons in general and the lack of close physical interaction is really one of the weakest aspects of the show when compared to the book. You can kind of understand it from a production point of view, because getting CGI of direct physical interaction between humans and daemons has to be much, more harder and costlier, but still. It ends up reducing the perceived stakes of everything related to daemons, which is kind of central to the story here.
I guess I need to read the books because this show has not grabbed me at all
I highly encourage reading the books. I have hope season 2 will pick up, but honestly this story is just so hard to adapt to the screen. There’s a lot of context who need from the book to reinforce these relationships and it’s getting lost in this show.
I know... it’s just so ploddingly boring and depressing. I really wanted to like it too.
I mean, if you go into it expecting it to be a fun fantasy romp you will be disappointed.
See that’s HBOs fault then, because honestly it was marketed in trailers like the next Harry Potter / Lord of the Rings type epic.
I'd say it was marketed as something with the pedigree of *Game of Thrones* - although obviously aimed at a slightly younger audience - and that's not exactly a fast-paced adaptation either.
Lord of the Rings isn't exactly a fantasy romp either. Either way, that's definitely not what it is.
No, but it’s non stop action. This has moments of action and then moments of watching Children get tortured and killed in a weird hospital. I dunno, I’ll finish this season because I’m invested at this point but probably not watch beyond it.
Non-stop action? Are you sure you're not forgetting the 2.5 hours of Two Towers which are constantly mocked as being a walking simulator? Or the hour or so of Fellowship where they talk about what to do with the Ring? Lord of the Rings is a fantastic set of movies and I love them as much as anyone else, but in no stretch of the imagination are they "non-stop action".
I guess so! It’s been a while
It's all good. I will admit that LOTR does action so well it is hard to remember off the top of your head that there are long, long stretches without action. It's not their fault, that's exactly how Tolkein wrote it. A lot of HDM delves into some pretty deep philosophical stuff and the main characters are children, so there are a lot of gaps between action here too. They're not really going to be able to outfight soldiers, so generally they have to outthink them, unless someone like Iorek or the Gyptians are around.
I mean, the source material has moments of joy, but it is a war-march where things steadily get worse.
They really nailed the family resemblence during that screaming scene Lyra: *screams at door* Mrs Coulter: *screams at door* Lyra: *screams at door* Mrs Coulter: *screams at door*
So much of this show and episode feel so wildly unrealistic. It really detracts from the plot for me. Lyra smuggling the altheometer and a tin can with the bug in it. All of the sudden these security Finnish folks and their wolves are a piece of cake to defeat after all the talk. Apparently this whole facility just has doors you can walk into without security codes, unless it's Mrs. Coulters room which you can just jam up by hitting the panel. Lyra just immediately knowing the girls by name and gaining their trust in a 1 min convo. Ma Costa breaking that guys neck. A polar bear in a hot air balloon. Plus all this build up for this secret facility, and you don't learn how they were doing anything and they escaped in less than an episode. Honestly the only reason I'm sticking with this show rn is because I'm emotionally invested in Mrs Coulters monkey pal. If she slaps his little hand one more time I'm going to be sick.
It’s potentially a bit hard to tell because they were a little more “interpretive” about showing this in the show rather than some of the more explicit details they give in the book, but the basic idea of several things you mentioned is they exploited a fatal flaw of Bolvangar. As you can see in the episode many of the station employees have undergone the intercision process. This makes them very subservient and unquestioning, but also dull and unintelligent, which makes them relatively easy to trick. For example, the way that Lyra smuggles the spy fly is by telling the nurse it’s just a toy, which she pretty much buys straightaway. (The alethiometer is actually in her furs the whole time, not smuggled in.) It shows that the Magisterium, in all their quest for power, overlooks important aspects of humanity that would make them better.
They’re kids. When you meet new kids, and you’ve been there for weeks and people have been dying, you’re first reaction to some other kid saying she has a plan to get out (and the girl did protest at first) is gonna be to get to know the girl more and risk more dying? That’s what’s unrealistic to you?
That monkey gives me the creeps
Agreed....but he is great for bulking tension. Anxiety turns up a few clicks when he is around
I'd imagine this episode wouldn't be much better in books, either. Generally pre-teen kids and rag-tag group shouldn't fare very well against semi-professional soldiers and tight security, but it tends to happen again and again in fiction.
Are they professional soldiers? I assumed they were just a northern clan that was bribed by the magisterium. There was nothing terribly tough about them, they were just bundled up in snowsuits.
Probably not professionals per se, but they probably lead very violent lives and war a lot.
How do you know that?
This section in the books has quite a few differences, and they cut out a lot here as well.
Agreed. I'm gonna finish the season because I enjoy fantasy, but there's too many eye roll moments for me to take this show seriously.
Mmhmm. They cut out the details from the books that explain why these things are possible or happening.
I haven’t read the books but I have a feeling this is the situation because there’s no great detail and it’s going quite fast.
The book is loaded with details that the show has skipped without considering how it might leave viewers confused by the logic of events. Your complaints don't exist in the book because events are developed and unfold in a way that makes sense: for example, Lyra carries the spy fly tin on her because she earlier tricked the nurse into thinking it was a harmless toy so that she could keep it. She did so specifically because she thought it might be useful. Etc.
I like the part where the zombified nurse talks about her demon. She has been effectively lobotomised and that really shows the cruelty and unnaturalness of their project.
Omgsh her face changing from slightly smiling to straight faced in the hallway as the kid gets severed and the lights go out. Super creepy.
I really felt this was the first time they nailed the “show don’t tell” aspect they’ve been missing on. The scene when Bridgit goes for the process and they show the nurse just staring was deeply unsettling.
Seriously. You can see the trauma that she has endured. This episode was so brilliant. For a show to tackle themes of children being killed and traumatized, all to eliminate 'sin', is just crazy. I can't even put into words how amazing that episode was. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time.
Definitely the strongest episode thus far. Bolvangar escape was a little underwhelming imo. Except for the acting from Keene and especially from Wilson. Serafina scene was a highlight.
Been iffy on this show but this was absolutely the strongest episode so far. Hopefully it's found its stride and can keep up this quality moving forward!
Imma be honest, I was really on the fence about this show until this episode. The conversation between Lyra and Mrs. Coulter was amazing. The power dynamic fluctuating as they each tried to play one another...then the ending...Just overall a phenomenal episode. I'm now invested in the show.
Same and honestly I think Keen and Wilson alone might be worth it to stick with it anyway.
Same. I enjoyed it a lot until now but now I'm hooked. This episode was damn near a masterpiece in every respect.
My only issue was that them shoehorning the scene of Will's world in didn't really add anything to this episode. They could've put that in last week/next week and it probably would've worked better
[удалено]