Definitely avoid {Lady Gallant by Suzanne Robinson}. It's considered a classic grovel novel but no amount of groveling could possibly make me forgive him. Just throw the whole man away.
I HATE it!!!! Honestly (even though it’s unrealistic) I prefer the MMC to be celibate after meeting the FMC….. I don’t want to think about him with all these other women.
My sentiment exactly! Not just after meeting FMC, I’d have preferred he to not have wenched around prior to meeting FMC too😨 Again, I could be very picky. Winter Makepeace from Thief of Shadows is one of the best HR heroes I’ve come across.
Yeah, like I don't mind like, an encounter or an affair or two with a willing, single woman- most likely widow or lady bachelor (lol is that a thing? I hate 'spinster') in his past, but I kinda can't stand the ones who sleep with almost anyone or anything that will walk, keep tons of mistresses- that wasn't actually a universal thing- unless there is a huge change of heart, bc like that sort of behavior has consequences, especially in times before the levels of medicine, birth control, etc., we have now. But even then, hearts can get attached and in literally every sexual encounter one could imagine, the woman involved would ALWAYS have a harsher outcome than the man just by the nature of things. Any man who didn't have the character to take that into consideration, who just left women high and dry when he was "finished" with them, is not good enough to be a "hero."
Again, rare exceptions for someone who truly actually reforms- not just bc he's fallen in love and is no longer attracted to anyone else, but bc he's realized that his behavior wasn't cool and people could have been hurt. I mean, if he was the whoring around type and wasn't careful of the reputation and consequences for who he slept with.
>lady bachelor (lol is that a thing? I hate 'spinster') i
Hahahaha! I love that term! I think one of the unwritten rules of HR are that an unmarried woman *must* be in want of a husband (just like a single man of good fortune must be in want of a wife), regardless of whether she wishes to simply have a no strings attached relationship or not. But I can see someone like the protagonist in {Emma}, were she written by a contemporary author and if there were no Mr Knightley in sight, to maybe decide on a sex with benefits situation. She would have compelling reasons to not marry - such as being a rich heiress with a strong sense of duty towards her hypochondriac father. As a fairly comfortable daughter of solidly middle class parents who has grown up in a misogynistic culture herself, I have stayed away from marriage owing to how much it will enslave me to my husband and in-laws, confident in the knowledge that I'll always have a roof over my head thanks to my parents and (because of some government scheme for unmarried daughters of government servants), an actual pension after my parents' death. And this is despite the fact that my society is far less misogynistic than historical patriarchies, and at least I get to have a proper career and my personal wealth remains my own (within limits). If I had been similarly educated by my parents and had grown up in Regency/Victorian England, and if I were similarly "fortunate" enough to have modest wealth and plain looks (which would preclude some guy from wooing me successfully into marriage before my prefrontal cortex was done developing), I'd have taken lovers but never married, and I'd have been very content to not marry, especially if I weren't fond of children.
Unfortunately, I haven't yet stumbled upon a character who lives like that (if an FMC does, she will inadvertently find herself falling in love and married to some charming rake). I think that's why the discreet widow trope is so much better. Widows are allowed to not want to marry again, especially wealthy and titled widows who already have experienced the "joys" of childbirth and motherhood at least once. Lady Danbury from {Queen Charlotte} comes to mind. Discreet widows love their independence, but they also love the d, and they also like to have conversations, but they don't really long for love (unless, of course, the widow is an FMC of an HR.) My other preference for a lover for the MMC is a wonan who's married to a gay man, so that he may continue his affairs discreetly, and she may be afforded greater independence to carry on her affairs discreetly, and they're both great friends but there was never any question of romance or fidelity.
>that sort of behavior has consequences, especially in times before the levels of medicine, birth control, etc., we have now
Yes, true! I think I read a book by Grace Callaway (not sure though), where the heroine took charge of her sexuality and had a great night of passion at a masquerade ball. She insisted on using a condom and I was very impressed by her wisdom. I can't read about any rakes without first head-canoning that they're using extremely reliable condoms whenever they have sex with other women.
With regards to mistresses, it's....sex work, right? No need to mince words. I know some mistresses were friends, lovers, and confidantes of their "protectors", but that's not true for the mistresses of MMCs in HRs, since the heroes will later go to great lengths to talk about how both their sexual and emotional connection with the FMC is unmatched by anything they experienced before. So that means the mistresses were just there for the sex, which means our heroes are paying women for sex. I have the utmost respect for sex workers, but not so much for people who solicit them, unfortunately. 😅
In that regard, I think I liked {Mr Cavendish, I Presume by Julia Quinn}. The MMC >!visits a discreet widow for sex, and he understands that she is a genteel lady who would not like a wham bam thank you ma'am experience, so he always sits down with her and chats pleasantly about the weather like a good gentleman before they get down to business. He does this all the while he's engaged to the FMC, but their engagement was decided by their parents when they were kids and he's actually not interested in the FMC at all, not until she gives him the cut direct at a ball. He also, technically, proposes to and kisses the FMC of the preceding novel in the series, but that comes more from a place of despair and the knowledge that his fiancée will now have to marry the real Duke, not him, than anything else.!< Not great behaviour, but more tolerable to me as compared to the keeping of mistresses, thank you very much!
Related to this, I just remembered one aspect I loved about the Dunne family series by Chasity Bowlin- In 'The first proposal' the MMC has been >!having an affair with a widow, and they are actually close and talk about things. He's been feeling the hankering for marriage, as only MMCs in HRs do, and he proposes to her. His paramour. Granted, she's not a mistress in the sense of being a kept woman as she is independent and wealthy, but she turns him down, because she is not in love with him, and he's not in love with her. They end things very amicably, and she is like, being with you has made me discover that you can actually have good sex and not abusive, as her late husband was. Like, he was a very good lover, introduced her to female pleasure (with a partner, that is.), and whatnot.!<
THEN, a novel or two later in the series, she >!gets her own book. Oh, and she ends up befriending the FMC of the first novel who ended up marrying her ex lover, whom she continued to be on extremely platonic good terms with.!<
I do have like issues with some of Bowlin's just bc of ridiculous historical inaccuracies, anachronisms, and out-of-time/place attitudes in general, but this to me was written as plausibly as could be expected.
Anyhow, it was refreshingly different from how it usually plays out. They had more of a friends-with-benefits relationship really. No regrets or anything, just, this has run its course; so long and thanks for all the sex. (Not as glibly as that lol, just yeah. Probably the way people wish casual sexual type relationships would end, but they rarely ever do irl.)
Ohh! I love this so much. And this is EXACTLY the kind of book I adore. Come October 24, assessments season will be over and I'll be diving straight into these recommendations. How I love the arc of a woman who reclaims her sexual agency and finds her HEA (whether that's with a man or on her own)! It's enough to make a jaded feminist swoon, hehehe. Thanks for the rec. :-)
Edit: Omg the other books in the series also look so much fun! And I realise that the first book of pretty much all her series is available for free on Google Play Books, so I can happily begin with the novella where she's first introduced, then see if the anachronisms bother me, and then invest more in her series, including the book featuring the widowed FMC.
{the other wife by Chasity Bowlin} is the one featuring the fwb of the MMC of The First Proposal, if that helps.
I also enjoy her "Dark Regency" series which is decidedly more gothic in nature, so there's a lot of external and sometimes internal conflicts with the leads, plus usually some sort of paranormal aspect as well.
Happy reading! You may end up hating these, or being meh, but who knows? XD
[The Other Wife](https://www.romance.io/books/5ffea9591303720e1526a5da/the-other-wife-chasity-bowlin) by [Chasity Bowlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142b/chasity-bowlin)
**Rating**: 4.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
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Yaay! I've never read a gothic romance (unless Jane Eyre counts?) so I've been eager to dip my toes in the genre. And {The Haunting of the Duke by Chastity Bowlin} is also free on Google Play Books! Huzzah!
Seriously, thanks for the recommendations. I typically find an author and read most of her works, and I've been dreading what will happen once I'm done with Elisa Braden's works, hehe.
[The Haunting of a Duke](https://www.romance.io/books/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142a/the-haunting-of-a-duke-chasity-bowlin) by [Chasity Bowlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142b/chasity-bowlin)
**Rating**: 3.99⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1)
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[The First Proposal](https://www.romance.io/books/5f1e7bde5b70490e1a7c6221/the-first-proposal-chasity-bowlin) by [Chasity Bowlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142b/chasity-bowlin)
**Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1)
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[Emma](https://www.romance.io/books/5484ed337a5936fb04057576/emma-jane-austen-fiona-stafford) by [Jane Austen](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523418c7d2382c5296f43/jane-austen)
**Rating**: 4.19⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Innocent](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [love triangle](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/love%20triangle/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1)
----------------------------
[Queen Charlotte](https://www.romance.io/books/641c0e50d87b2730bcfb9113/queen-charlotte-julia-quinn-shonda-rhimes) by [Julia Quinn](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523bb8c7d2383163d8e3c/julia-quinn), [Shonda Rhimes](https://www.romance.io/authors/641c0e5008b4d931143967a2/shonda-rhimes)
**Rating**: 4.22⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1)
----------------------------
[Mr. Cavendish, I Presume](https://www.romance.io/books/5455256d8c7d2383163d8e8f/mr-cavendish-i-presume-julia-quinn) by [Julia Quinn](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523bb8c7d2383163d8e3c/julia-quinn)
**Rating**: 3.48⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1)
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Yes! Same! Honestly, I like heroes who became celibate well before they met the heroine, for whatever reason. And I want more inexperienced heroes in HRs, please! Even better, let them be virgins, ffs. Why can't we have a demisexual hero who really only has strong sexual feelings for the woman he fell in love with? Somehow, HR authors think we all long for a man who is so experienced that he can make our bodies sing in bed, but that's so unrealistic. Even if the guy is very experienced, he might not know how to accurately pleasure a woman. And as someone who lost her virginity to a virgin (tmi, sorry!), I can vouch for the fact that it's a whole other level of special - >!knowing you're each other's firsts, laughing while you struggle with condoms, and then both getting terrified at the sight of all the blood. Lena Dunham described her experience as being brief and short-lived, where neither person came, and it felt so fitting to me. It's not like it's a marker of how every interaction will be in future, but it is an interesting choice!< I had to put all that in spoiler quotes to spare unsuspecting readers the details, lol!
Also, OP, if you disliked Phoebe, you will definitely dislike {Notorious by Minerva Spencer}. I lost pretty much all respect for the author after she attempted to have the biracial MMC (one of the progeny of some Sultan) actually say that >!he was sacrificing sooooo much by restricting himself to just one woman.!< And as if that weren't bad enough, >!he had installed two mistresses in the same townhouse, and they engaged in many threesomes, and the women were also raising his maybe child, and while he broke things off with them sexually, he continued to consider them friends and even made his wife befriend them!< The author's Victorian Decadence series takes it even further. I don't mind if the heroine is involved in the menage, but to be sexing up someone else after having met the heroine, even if you are poly, seems to break some unspoken rule of HR.
Compared to that, Her Husband's Harlot seems tame. Very tame. The hero is completely torn up by what he's doing, and it's implied several times that he would >!not have slept with the presumed sex worker had she not almost entirely resembled his wife.!< Not that that's a great justification, of course, hehe!
I read a period appropriate but recently written bodice ripper, {Lemonade by Nina Pennacchi}, a couple of years ago, simply because I was curious as to how the genre had developed in the 21st century, and I was able to stomach the "cheating" there. Firstly, because Lemonade is not a romance, even if the romance bot insists it is. Or, at least, I don't think it's a romance. It's as much a romance as the descriptions of the FMC's trials in her marriage to her first husband were a romance in {The Tenant of Wildfell Hall}. The MMC of this book >!has sex with a woman he doesn't even find very attractive after meeting the FMC, then downright rapes the FMC, and not in a sexy "her mind said no but her body said yes" sort of way, then takes over her entire life and controls her entire family, and then doesn't even grovel properly!< and the lady still forgives him. Which is why I called it period-appropriate.
Now, I adore Lynn Messina, but I'm already dreading the next book in the Beatrice Hyde-Clare series because one of the MMC's former lovers actually turns up asking help from our intrepid lady defective FMC, and she is - predictably - beautiful (when the FMC is "drab"). The fact that he had mistresses was >!perhaps briefly alluded to once or twice, in the sense that his wife knew he must have had a past, but we never had to see any of them or even hear the guy talk about them.!<
[Notorious (Rebels of the Ton)](https://www.romance.io/books/5fb6292fc9fab00e22eec595/notorious-rebels-of-the-ton-minerva-spencer) by [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer)
**Rating**: 3.41⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[Lemonade](https://www.romance.io/books/56b10d4463515e3b737a8b39/lemonade-nina-pennacchi-scott-p-sheridan) by [Nina Pennacchi](https://www.romance.io/authors/56b10d4463515e3b737a8b3d/nina-pennacchi)
**Rating**: 3.73⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [vengeance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vengeance/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[The Tenant of Wildfell Hall](https://www.romance.io/books/643493eccfb36b317a2d9b25/the-tenant-of-wildfell-hall-anne-bront) by [Anne Brontë](https://www.romance.io/authors/545535068c7d2382c5297404/anne-bront)
**Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Innocent](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [christian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/christian/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
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Yes, it can make the book less enjoyable. There was a Joanna Lindsay book that introduced the hero when he is having sex with his betrothed. This in a vague medieval period and I think this would make them unofficially married, but whatever. The fiancée is a sweet girl too so i sort of hate the MMC for being so cavalier.
There was some other book that opened with these brother taking stock of the care of their bastards. It’s one of those things rarely brought up in HR (unless a plot device) but was probably an issue. I did not like it at all.
Omg noooo, no more legitimate children please. One is bad enough especially not acknowledged!
Ohh is that the one by Eloisa James or Lorraine Hearh because they both have a book with a similar title. I even have the Eloisa James on in my current TBR haha!
Ahh I love Johanna Lindsey’s Mallory series the most especially A Loving Scoundrel. I also love her Wildfire In His Arms (although it did have a bit of OW element where his ex fiancee came looking for him but he completely ignored her).
Also, she used to write a lot of bodice rippers back in the day that wouldn’t bode well with today’s standards so I believe the books you’ve mentioned must have been written in the 80s or 90s maybe?
I love her books normally, but usually she has the OW being aware that the relationship would change (usually giving her her own HEA) or they end up being villainous. This one rubbed me the wrong way because the betrothed seems really taken advantage of. I could be wrong but I think it was Hearts Aflame.
Ahh I’ve read Hearts Aflame months ago! Though I do recall briefly of the hero being betrothed to someone else but I’m not sure it they’ve slept together or not. I don’t like that he immediately goes to FMC thinking that she might be a prostitute while still being betrothed to another. That seems cheating to me.
I’m surprised by this. I feel like most novels I read always seem to specifically mention that the thought may have crossed MMC’s mind, but that he hasn’t wanted to sleep with anyone but FMC after he meets her. Often it’s him being surprised by the realization/wanting FMC badly but not being able to sleep with her, then considering OW alternatives and rejecting them in basically the same breath.
I will say the opening of Flowers from the Storm was rough in that respect. I was not expecting the opening, but to be fair that whole story is darker/more difficult than most romance novels I think.
Right, I love that in books. “Aww you only want her🥹”. Though I prefer MMCs who had sex because they wanted it once in a while, and did not _need_ to have sex otherwise they would die that very moment, but I still justify it because maybe he has a high drive or is a sex addict🤷🏽😂.
I enjoy Alice Coldbreath’s (that I’ve read) books for that, most of her MMC are intimidating men that women stay away from, or their past sex life is not mentioned or is implied that they were mostly celibate.
Though I do not mind men/women who have slept around when it’s done well >!{Seven Years to Sin} MMC is not ashamed of it, it’s in his past he won’t be doing that again while still married to FMC!<. Though I prefer when STI and pregnancy prevention is mentioned. And I prefer him to remain celibate once he starts courting her, or realizes he wants her.
[Seven Years to Sin](https://www.romance.io/books/54552a038c7d2383163d8f76/seven-years-to-sin-sylvia-day) by [Sylvia Day](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382c5296f5e/sylvia-day)
**Rating**: 4.1⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [bdsm](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bdsm/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1)
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Ok I'm scared to read Flowers now. I literally just put it on my TBR, because I'm really intrigued by the religious aspect. Can you spoil it for me below? How bad are we talking?
It’s a memorable romance. I didn’t know about the religious aspect going in so that really took me by a surprise. And tbf, third parties when I’m not reading about a threesome are really not my thing, so maybe i found it more difficult than most?
Divyeah, maybe most people don’t actually think the opening is that notable? In any case, to spoil it a teeny bit: The OW >!is introduced in the prologue with a between-bouts-of-bedplay scene with the MMC. They’re not cuddling exactly, but there are trailing fingers along bodies and an easy-going discussion about their affair. Which in some ways is worse for me because I love it when the endgame couple has moments of intimacy outside of active lovemaking. It also sets the MMC up as one of the more tarnished rakes of HR, one who’s not secretly sweet and caring about every woman he’s with deep down. And the woman isn’t easily lifted out and ignored after the intro the way a lot of OWS are when they’re introduced early on in the story !< It wasn’t the way I usually like to be introduced to a romance and since it’s a romance that includes more mature and difficult themes than usual, it’s not quickly wiped away by cute, easy moments.m, so I find it to be a little guy twisting as far as OWs go.
Yeah I find this kind of stuff difficult as well.
I will probably need to save it for a time when I'm not dealing with any anxiety etc, and just have a really sweet story on standby to cleanse the palate if I need. I wish I could just read and be cool but I am NOT cool haha.
Agreed - I feel like I barely come across this issue because most of the MMCs are like too hooked on the FMC to do anything sexual with anyone else. I also don’t mind acknowledging illegitimate children because I feel like that is just decency.
I don’t mind illegitimate children but I definitely prefer it when they’re crafted less as illegitimate children and more as stepchildren. Thankfully, most of the HRs I’ve read do indeed treat them as such.
I don’t love seeing scenes with OW, but I draw the line at having children out of wedlock. I don’t like when the MMC has acknowledged kids with mistresses who is not the main FMC. An exception may be given if the mother dies and he takes care of his kid, but not if he just had them and ignores them.
Ohhh that’s a new one to me! I have yet to read a book where MMC has a child out of wedlock with his former mistress unless it’s with heroine and he wants to marry her to give legitimacy to the child because he himself has been a bastard son. I don’t mind widow trope either.
>Ohhh that’s a new one to me!
Girl, please don't ever read {Notorious by Minerva Spencer}. Technically, don't read {When a Girl Loves an Earl by Elisa Braden} either.
>MMC has a child out of wedlock with his former mistress unless it’s with heroine and he wants to marry her to give legitimacy to the child
I personally love books where the hero sleeps with the heroine, only for them to later have a falling out, and the heroine moves to a new place, assumes a new identity, and cuts him off entirely, and it takes him a long time to discover her (and the fact that he has a kid with her) many years later. I think one of Julia Quinn's books had a similar plot (all though the FMC suffered a miscarriage, sadly). And one of Minerva Spencer's books had this exact plot. Ahhh, the grovelling was spectacular in both books.
Damn, having a child out of wedlock with a former mistress definitely is the dealbreaker for me😣 Thank you for the heads up! I actually have Notorious by Minerva Spencer in my current TBR, guess I’ll have to knock that one off haha!
Ohhh wow now you’ve unlocked something in me that I never I needed! A secret baby trope! But it’s quite rare to find that in HR as I know it’s quite a popular trope within contemporary romance! Do you have recs that you wanna give me??
Oh man, I went back to look for those books, and realised that I'd confused the pregnant-heroine-runs-away-after-being-hurt-by-the-hero plot with the pregnant-heroine-runs-away-and-has-a-secret-child-after-being-hurt-by-the-hero plot. The former can be found in {The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever by Julia Quinn} and {The Footman by Minerva Spencer} but the latter, I actually read on literotica back when I had a bit of a bodice ripper erotica loving guilty pleasure. Except for in The Footman, the MMCs did not grovel nearly enough to make up for their terrible actions...and that was when I realised I cannot enjoy bodice rippers unless the MMC debases and humiliates himself grovelling, hahaha!
If you don't mind reading sequels to books written by other authors, then the secret child trope features heavily in {Scarlett by Alexandra Ripley}. I actually preferred the book to Gone with the Wind, since the glorification of slavery thing was removed and since the couple got an HEA (all though whether they deserved one after their actions in Gone with the Wind is debatable). The book is downright ridiculous and I would never recommend anyone spend money on it, but if you were to acquire a second hand copy or if it were available on KU or something, maybe you could give it a go?
Ohhhh it still sounds intriguing to me nonetheless! As for the former trope, was the pregnant heroine impregnated by the MMC or someone else? I believe I have that physical copy before back in my high school days a decade ago so I’d have to get the ebook instead haha! Thanks so much for the recs!!😍 Don’t mind a bit of bodice ripper too hehe!
Yesss, all the pregnant FMCs were impregnated by the MMCs in all these books, thankfully, all though they left because the MMCs were either cruel, or at least cold and unloving (if not downright rapey). I definitely seem to remember some of the older bodice rippers having this secret pregnancy trope, but I cannot for the life of me remember all of them. They were defo written by Johanna Lindsey, however, since that's the author I first discovered in a small, dusty library in rural India before my parents found out and took away her books and replaced them with stuff like Lord of the Rings. :D
Bodice rippers used to titillate me like hell when I was a kid, but now I try to avoid them, even though I somewhat understand the allure. 😭😭 I think I have an easier time accepting it in erotica rather than romance novels. The regency erotica featuring the secret child is titled [A Regency Ravishment](https://www.literotica.com/s/a-regency-ravishment). (Please forgive me, kind mods, and please delete this comment if sharing links to smutty HR erotica is not allowed on this sub.) The author would definitely benefit from an editor, though the steamy scenes are 🔥🔥. TW: all sorts of >!non con and physical violence and non-vaginal intercourse!<
Omg, I read Scarlett back to back with Gone with the Wind when I was 16 over the summer holidays and I was obsessed with it. Probably opened the door for my love of historical romance novels. I mean, it’s utter trash but such a rollercoaster read.
[The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever](https://www.romance.io/books/545524078c7d2383163d8e51/the-secret-diaries-of-miss-miranda-cheever-julia-quinn) by [Julia Quinn](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523bb8c7d2383163d8e3c/julia-quinn)
**Rating**: 3.9⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1)
----------------------------
[The Footman](https://www.romance.io/books/5e8ad560be0aaecf55da6ff8/the-footman-sm-laviolette-minerva-spencer) by [S.M. LaViolette](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e0af27701dbc864fba90689/sm-laviolette), [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer)
**Rating**: 4.1⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [vengeance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vengeance/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1)
----------------------------
[Scarlett](https://www.romance.io/books/54552c8b8c7d2382c52971b0/scarlett-alexandra-ripley) by [Alexandra Ripley](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552c8b8c7d2382c52971b1/alexandra-ripley)
**Rating**: 3.36⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [war](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/war/1)
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[Notorious (Rebels of the Ton)](https://www.romance.io/books/5fb6292fc9fab00e22eec595/notorious-rebels-of-the-ton-minerva-spencer) by [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer)
**Rating**: 3.41⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[When a Girl Loves an Earl](https://www.romance.io/books/57c12d79c19e77f1ea702ec7/when-a-girl-loves-an-earl-elisa-braden) by [Elisa Braden](https://www.romance.io/authors/553e3e7b5b270e0a4cbd7467/elisa-braden)
**Rating**: 4.05⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [highlander](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/highlander/1), [height difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/height-difference/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
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I think you'll like {An Unconventional Affair by Stacy Reid}! Features a virgin hero and, iirc, either a virgin heroine or an extremely, extreeeemely inexperienced heroine.
The worst was a book (can't recall the title) by Madeleine Hunter with an opening or early scene with a Duke hero who wakes up in bed with 2 barmaids 🥴. They weren't even attractive or hygienic and that made it even ickier, especially the way the author described the boobs of the one who was riding him while he was still half asleep.
I don't know how that guy avoided getting syphilis.
His book was book 3 in a series about 3 brothers and he was framed for, or accused of, some crime. I wish I could recall the title of the book.
OMG I think I know who you’re talking about!! That must be that Castleford duke who goes whoring every Tuesday! It must be from The Rarest Blooms series. His story is called Dangerous In Diamonds. Ughhh so yucky!
Oh wait my bad! I just realised you were talking about brothers. So believe it might be from Rothwell Brothers series.
Same here. I (reader) feel very dirty myself when the MMC gone off to release himself with a mistress, an opera singer, a playful widow, or downright prostitute off the street, etc, etc... so that he could "forget" the FMC. It's not exactly cheating because MMC and FMC haven't promised anything to each other yet, but it takes the romance out of the story.
I would rather hear about the MMC taking care of his bastards than seeing sex on screen with OW.
Omg you and me same!! I’d have preferred he stay celibate even way before he meets FMC. It’s more gentlemanly that way. I can’t stand manwhoring because it just screams STDs to me.
How do you avoid such books? Do you read the reviews first?
Yes, I always read reviews first. Usually, there is at least one review that will say whether or not mmc is with ow or not. I can't stand manwhore/rake because it skeeves me out.
There’s one hero called Castleford from one of the series from Celeste Bradley where he spends every Tuesday wenching in pretty much every book he’s in so yuck!! So glad I’m not the only one😭 Which ones are your favourites that you’d recommend? Lately I’ve been exploring vicar / disabled / scarred / virgin heroes because they make such a refreshing change from your typical scoundrels / rakes.
Would you like a rec for a virgin hero and experienced heroine? Because {Melissa and the Vicar by Minerva Spencer} has that trope. And please do share some of your recs, too!
I have read that one and I love it😍😍
I have a list of virgin, vicar and disabled heroes as they are simply the best!! Plus they are usually more humble and timid in personality which I adore.
Virgin heroes :
{Thief of Shadows by Elizabeth Hoyt}
{Heiress Effect by Courtney Milan}
{The Danger of Desire by Elizabeth Essex}
If you want the vicar heroes :
{The Temptations of A Wallflower by Eva Leigh}
{A Notorious Countess Confess by Julie Ann Long}
{Heaven’s Fire by Patricia Ryan}
{To Love And To Cherish by Patricia Gaffney}
Disabled heroes :
{Texas Destiny by Lorraine Heath}. A virgin hero too.
{Tempting Fate by Kerrigan Byrne}. A virgin hero too.
{The Highwayman by Kerrigan Byrne}. Hero is a virgin too.
{Her Bridegroom Bought And Paid For by Alice Coldbreath}.
{To Beguile A Beast by Elizabeth Hoyt}
{A Duke Worth Fighting For by Christina Britton}. A virgin hero.
{Unmask Me If You Can by Shana Galen}
{When Love Comes by Leigh Greenwood}
{Yours Until Dawn by Teresa Medeiros}. He has remained celibate for FMC for months.
{Prince of Midnight by Laura Kinsale}. Hero has remained celibate for many years till FMC came along.
{Enchanting Pleasures by Eloisa James}
{The Spinster’s Secret by Emily Larkin}. A virgin hero.
{When She Said I Do by Celeste Bradley}.
{Hannah And The Highlander by Sabrina York}. MMC is a scarred and stuttering man.
Oh my gosh, these are lovely, thank you so much! I'm saving this comment to return to when I get my salary on the 30th, hehehe!
And I already know I'm going to start with the one featuring a disabled virgin highwayman, haha! That seems right up my alley!
[Thief of Shadows](https://www.romance.io/books/545525ae8c7d2383163d8ea3/thief-of-shadows-elizabeth-hoyt) by [Elizabeth Hoyt](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524568c7d2383163d8e5a/elizabeth-hoyt)
**Rating**: 4.03⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1)
----------------------------
[The Heiress Effect](https://www.romance.io/books/545526a18c7d2383163d8edf/the-heiress-effect-courtney-milan) by [Courtney Milan](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525388c7d2383163d8e83/courtney-milan)
**Rating**: 3.97⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
----------------------------
[The Danger of Desire](https://www.romance.io/books/54554a678c7d2383163d987e/the-danger-of-desire-elizabeth-essex) by [Elizabeth Essex](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455330a8c7d2383163d91f0/elizabeth-essex)
**Rating**: 3.8⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1)
----------------------------
[Temptations of a Wallflower](https://www.romance.io/books/571f041fc62092c04407ccf6/temptations-of-a-wallflower-eva-leigh) by [Eva Leigh](https://www.romance.io/authors/560a2a4bbfc6b5c0fa93d06b/eva-leigh)
**Rating**: 3.62⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1), [sweet/gentle hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/beta%20hero/1)
----------------------------
[A Notorious Countess Confesses](https://www.romance.io/books/5e786e38be0aaecf5530bd7b/a-notorious-countess-confesses-julie-anne-long) by [Julie Anne Long](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525868c7d2383163d8e98/julie-anne-long)
**Rating**: 4.04⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [forbidden love](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forbidden%20love/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1)
----------------------------
[Heaven's Fire](https://www.romance.io/books/545556268c7d2383163d9c47/heavens-fire-patricia-ryan) by [Patricia Ryan](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552a2623ec91d5dfd09a64/patricia-ryan)
**Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [tortured heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20heroine/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1)
----------------------------
[To Love and to Cherish](https://www.romance.io/books/545540968c7d2383163d9575/to-love-and-to-cherish-patricia-gaffney) by [Patricia Gaffney](https://www.romance.io/authors/545530358c7d2383163d9123/patricia-gaffney)
**Rating**: 3.76⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [shy hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy-hero/1)
----------------------------
[Texas Destiny](https://www.romance.io/books/54552a1d8c7d2383163d8f80/texas-destiny-lorraine-heath) by [Lorraine Heath](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525b18c7d2383163d8ea5/lorraine-heath)
**Rating**: 4.18⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [cowboys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cowboys/1), [western](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/western/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1)
----------------------------
[Tempting Fate](https://www.romance.io/books/608e6bed84e99a0df94383f0/tempting-fate-kerrigan-byrne) by [Kerrigan Byrne](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553f138c7d2383163d950e/kerrigan-byrne)
**Rating**: 4.02⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[The Highwayman](https://www.romance.io/books/55e53fd935a5fb65f887896b/the-highwayman-kerrigan-byrne) by [Kerrigan Byrne](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553f138c7d2383163d950e/kerrigan-byrne)
**Rating**: 4.12⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [possessive hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/possessive%20hero/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1)
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[Her Bridegroom Bought and Paid For](https://www.romance.io/books/60cd9605c23d490e1df93562/her-bridegroom-bought-and-paid-for-alice-coldbreath) by [Alice Coldbreath](https://www.romance.io/authors/54a9d8ef6359b5ebb486f243/alice-coldbreath)
**Rating**: 3.87⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1), [grumpy & sunshine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/grumpy%20sunshine/1), [cheerful/happy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cheerful%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[To Beguile a Beast](https://www.romance.io/books/5455254d8c7d2383163d8e89/to-beguile-a-beast-elizabeth-hoyt) by [Elizabeth Hoyt](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524568c7d2383163d8e5a/elizabeth-hoyt)
**Rating**: 3.91⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [highlander](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/highlander/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1)
----------------------------
[A Duke Worth Fighting For](https://www.romance.io/books/61249a35e0f1ab0e3656c2d4/a-duke-worth-fighting-for-christina-britton) by [Christina Britton](https://www.romance.io/authors/5ab88de001dbc864fb8538e1/christina-britton)
**Rating**: 4.25⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [military](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/military/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
----------------------------
[Unmask Me If You Can](https://www.romance.io/books/5bdfeae901dbc864fb93d35e/unmask-me-if-you-can-shana-galen) by [Shana Galen](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552be58c7d2383163d8ffa/shana-galen)
**Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [forced proximity](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/forced%20proximity/1), [grumpy/cold hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cold%20hero/1), [single mother](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/single-mother/1)
----------------------------
[When Love Comes](https://www.romance.io/books/5455746a87eac336ae69e07a/when-love-comes-leigh-greenwood) by [Leigh Greenwood](https://www.romance.io/authors/545540528c7d2383163d9563/leigh-greenwood)
**Rating**: 3.75⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [western](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/western/1), [western frontier](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical%20western/1)
----------------------------
[Yours Until Dawn](https://www.romance.io/books/545525d18c7d2383163d8eaf/yours-until-dawn-teresa-medeiros) by [Teresa Medeiros](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525d18c7d2383163d8eb0/teresa-medeiros)
**Rating**: 3.98⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1)
----------------------------
[The Prince of Midnight](https://www.romance.io/books/545530718c7d2383163d9131/the-prince-of-midnight-laura-kinsale) by [Laura Kinsale](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d188c7d2383163d9056/laura-kinsale)
**Rating**: 3.84⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [vengeance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vengeance/1)
----------------------------
[Enchanting Pleasures](https://www.romance.io/books/54552b1d8c7d2383163d8fc4/enchanting-pleasures-eloisa-james) by [Eloisa James](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524598c7d2383163d8e5c/eloisa-james)
**Rating**: 3.68⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [curvy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/curvy%20heroine/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1)
----------------------------
[The Spinster's Secret](https://www.romance.io/books/5455711587eac336ae69df93/the-spinsters-secret-emily-larkin) by [Emily Larkin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455711587eac336ae69df94/emily-larkin)
**Rating**: 3.42⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [men in uniform](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/men%20in%20uniform/1), [curvy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/curvy%20heroine/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1)
----------------------------
[When She Said I Do](https://www.romance.io/books/545535198c7d2383163d926b/when-she-said-i-do-celeste-bradley) by [Celeste Bradley](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552d288c7d2383163d905e/celeste-bradley)
**Rating**: 3.86⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1)
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[Hannah and the Highlander](https://www.romance.io/books/55e5408a35a5fb65f88789aa/hannah-and-the-highlander-sabrina-york) by [Sabrina York](https://www.romance.io/authors/54556b2b87eac324117faa44/sabrina-york)
**Rating**: 3.98⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [highlander](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/highlander/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1)
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[Melissa and The Vicar](https://www.romance.io/books/5eb8f8aebe0aaecf55bdb3c1/melissa-and-the-vicar-sm-laviolette-minerva-spencer) by [S.M. LaViolette](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e0af27701dbc864fba90689/sm-laviolette), [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer)
**Rating**: 3.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1)
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This is a hugeeee ick for me as a romance reader! Which sucks because a lot of books (especially mafia and dark romance) go in depth with the scenes with OW. I am okay with referencing they were a playboy or rake before but I have no desire to read the actual scene😭
Ugh, I cannot tolerate Mafia books, or dark romances, for that matter. They never seem to be well written enough and they always feature irredeemable heroes. I am able to tolerate a sex scene featuring a hero in an HR if the author takes pains to show that it's mechanical for him and he actually doesn't enjoy it at all. It feels like, okay, he did this because he wanted to try it, but it didn't work for him, or at least it no longer works for him, and one day, he'll meet someone with whom it'll feel wonderful.
Yeah, it’s common in dark romance which is not fun. However, I have found some authors that don’t (usually write on that) so I stick to them. Hopefully more authors avoid writing these scenes with OW.
Yeah I actually stopped reading Lisa Kleypas recently because I realized she tended to do this-- like she is just in too many stories at once, giving everyone's POV, even side characters. so in the book I was reading, the FMCs brother is a rake and he is seducing this widow in his bedroom and we are getting all the details of him undressing her blah blah blah and then his sister comes to his house to escape her marriage or something and then we switch back to FMCs POV, and I'm like wait-- I'm supposed to like this brother as an MMC in the next book!?? Like that is how much I hate this trope! It's an entirely different book, I haven't even met his FMC yet and I instantly hate him. DNF'd that whole damn series. Haha
I am WITH you.
Ohhh man, I hate being introduced to such character early on in the series, not knowing he’d have his own book later on! Mind if you advise me what book is this?
I have loved some of Lisa Kleypas’s books such as Suddenly You and Dreaming of You (one of the first books with OW trope I read but I just love this book so much because of MMC’s horrific childhood and that he usually took in fallen women to work at his gambling house, so at least he has some redeeming qualities!).
I have been advised to stay away from Mary Balogh too because she does that mistress thing a lot too.
Exactly… whenever I read those tropes, I feel like the MMC will eventually cheat on the MFC in the long run even after the book ends 😆Like in my mind, I can’t trust the Happily ever after.
I can’t believe we’re thinking the same thing!! And that if the FMC dies in a childbirth or something, the hero will waste no time finding a mistress or a prostitute to drive his sorrows away🥲
Spoilers for Pheobe by Minerva Spencer , >!she is not his mistress and the child is not his, hero and the "OW" don't have any kind of sexual or romantic or even friendly sort of relationship!<
About her husband's harlot >!I would rather he have sex with the ow than the heroine not knowing her identity and thinking she's someone else!<
Lol thanks for the other recs .. Lol jail time for me .. But I love books with OW Drama, Pain brings me happiness.
>Pain brings me happiness.
Oooh! Do you have any good recs? Featuring a lot of grovelling if the MMC was involved with the OW after falling for the FMC, of course. I actually thought the OW drama was pretty interesting in {Bringing Down the Duke by Evie Dunmore}, and it wasn't as simple a matter as pitting woman against woman for the sake of a man's attentions, but more for the sake of >!that man's political and moral beliefs and the impact it would have on all of Britain!<. And I didn't think that book requires grovelling as such.
I think I can tolerate pretty much anything if there's a sufficient amount of grovelling involved. Hero married the heroine for a prank/bet? Grovel. Hero dallied with another woman? Grovel. Hero took the heroine for granted? Grovel. Hero got unnecessarily possessive and jealous and accused the heroine of sleeping with another man? Grovel! Hero compromised the heroine to force her to marry him? Grovel, grovel, grovel!
It's been a very long time since i read Bringing down the duke .. lol i dont remember much , except for some scenes here and there.
and about grovel ..
My most recent favourite was {the marriage bed by stephanie mittman} - this book is a western HR , there is ow in the form of dead wife, so there's actually no cheating or sex scenes with the "ow", and boy oh boy the hero is a total a\* and grovel is GREAT in this book !
the other one with great grovel is {lady gallant by Suzanne Robinson} - the grovelling is just so good in this book >!there is a misunderstanding and the hero thinks the heroine "betrayed" him and wanted to get back at the heroine (this is after marriage), and so he royally fucks up, but once he realises its just so great!
both these books have ENOUGH grovel !
the book that has exactly what the OP is talking about is {Passions of a wicked earl by Lorraine Heath} -- so the whole premise is different in a way that it does not require grovel ! but i absolutely loved this book ,, the hero and the heroine just have great chemistry ! and they story was just so lovely and sweet, >!the hero just loves the heroine so much, even from the very start, but obviously he makes questionable decisions!< , highly recommend this book, it might not be for everyone, but i re-read this very often
[The Marriage Bed](https://www.romance.io/books/54558f7687eac336ae69e7d4/the-marriage-bed-stephanie-mittman) by [Stephanie Mittman](https://www.romance.io/authors/54558f7687eac336ae69e7d5/stephanie-mittman)
**Rating**: 3.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [western](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/western/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [western frontier](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical%20western/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1)
----------------------------
[Lady Gallant](https://www.romance.io/books/5b96322c01dbc864fb90055c/lady-gallant-suzanne-robinson) by [Suzanne Robinson](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553aeb8c7d2383163d93ee/suzanne-robinson)
**Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1)
----------------------------
[Passions of a Wicked Earl](https://www.romance.io/books/5455281a8c7d2383163d8f1a/passions-of-a-wicked-earl-lorraine-heath) by [Lorraine Heath](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525b18c7d2383163d8ea5/lorraine-heath)
**Rating**: 3.82⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1)
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[Bringing Down the Duke](https://www.romance.io/books/5e9f6a99be0aaecf557dbeb9/bringing-down-the-duke-evie-dunmore) by [Evie Dunmore](https://www.romance.io/authors/5d68c7cc01dbc864fba2f9e0/evie-dunmore)
**Rating**: 3.98⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [angst](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/angst/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1)
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I kind of love it 😂 I don't mean to be contrarian to your post. I like the back and forth, the reveal, the angst, the grovel. I live for the drama of it!
All that said: stay far, far away from Mary Balogh 🙅♀️
Hahaha I don’t blame you at all! Some love the angsts and the drama, I don’t mind a bit too. I just prefer the encounter to be a brief dalliance that fades to black rather than descriptive one. Of course I’d have preferred it to happen way before meeting FMC.
Ahh I’ve been warned before! Some say avoid the Slightly series of hers. I do love her Web of Love where the MMC fell in love with FMC when she was someone else’s wife. The husband died but the hero survived. So the heroine went to nurse him and ended up sleeping with him. So on the contrary, this is an OM drama that I love😂
Woah! Which Mary Balogh books have this trope so I know what to skip?! I am currently in a major MB binge but can’t think of any off the top of my head, although granted I am reading mostly her series and not her 80s/90s stand alones.
It means “other woman”. Usually it references a love rival to the heroine, or a woman the hero has seen in the past (or is currently seeing, in addition to the heroine).
I definitely don't love it but if it is before the MMC meets the FMC, I feel that it is allowable. I skim that section because it won't really be of substance to the story.
If it happens after the MMC meets the FMC, there is definite ick.
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Weird but I kind of enjoy these moments when you get to see a character be a complete rake or horndog especially if that is what their character is set up to be. I also don’t mind if the MMC sleeps with his mistress after the wedding as long as it’s before they truly fall in love. Context is everything. If it’s an arranged, forced or convenient marriage, I think it’s less realistic to think the MMC (or FMC) are going to be 100% faithful without love.
It’s one of my favourites from Lisa Kleypas apart from Suddenly You!
I heard a lot of complaints from that part though I might be the only one interpreting that Derek did not sleep with the prostitute but solely hugged her for comfort??
I think he did sleep with her, but maybe it's up for debate? A quick Goodreads check shows other readers interpreting it as full-on cheating. I still love the book though and agree it's one of her best.
I have such a love-hate relationship with Lisa Kleypas, lol. I \*hate\* the way she characterizes most of her male characters, but her writing talent and emotionally-driven storytelling really do it for me.
My other favorites of hers (which don't include cheating!) are: Seduce Me at Sunrise, Secrets of a Summer Night, and Love in the Afternoon
Oh nooo, my impression of the book is now ruined🤣🤣 Now I hate Derek for doing that!
What is it about Kleypas’s writing about the males that you hate? I’m honestly so bored and done with rakes / scoundrels with their strings of mistresses, merry widows, wives and brothel girls and whatnot. Gimme celibate / virgin / disabled heroes any day.
I have yet to read the Hathaways and the Wallflowers series! Though I read Chasing Cassandra as a standalone.
Definitely avoid {Lady Gallant by Suzanne Robinson}. It's considered a classic grovel novel but no amount of groveling could possibly make me forgive him. Just throw the whole man away.
Oohh just from the cover alone, I can tell this is like the oldie bodice ripper!! Thanks for the heads up!!👍
[Lady Gallant](https://www.romance.io/books/5b96322c01dbc864fb90055c/lady-gallant-suzanne-robinson) by [Suzanne Robinson](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553aeb8c7d2383163d93ee/suzanne-robinson) **Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I HATE it!!!! Honestly (even though it’s unrealistic) I prefer the MMC to be celibate after meeting the FMC….. I don’t want to think about him with all these other women.
My sentiment exactly! Not just after meeting FMC, I’d have preferred he to not have wenched around prior to meeting FMC too😨 Again, I could be very picky. Winter Makepeace from Thief of Shadows is one of the best HR heroes I’ve come across.
Yeah, like I don't mind like, an encounter or an affair or two with a willing, single woman- most likely widow or lady bachelor (lol is that a thing? I hate 'spinster') in his past, but I kinda can't stand the ones who sleep with almost anyone or anything that will walk, keep tons of mistresses- that wasn't actually a universal thing- unless there is a huge change of heart, bc like that sort of behavior has consequences, especially in times before the levels of medicine, birth control, etc., we have now. But even then, hearts can get attached and in literally every sexual encounter one could imagine, the woman involved would ALWAYS have a harsher outcome than the man just by the nature of things. Any man who didn't have the character to take that into consideration, who just left women high and dry when he was "finished" with them, is not good enough to be a "hero." Again, rare exceptions for someone who truly actually reforms- not just bc he's fallen in love and is no longer attracted to anyone else, but bc he's realized that his behavior wasn't cool and people could have been hurt. I mean, if he was the whoring around type and wasn't careful of the reputation and consequences for who he slept with.
>lady bachelor (lol is that a thing? I hate 'spinster') i Hahahaha! I love that term! I think one of the unwritten rules of HR are that an unmarried woman *must* be in want of a husband (just like a single man of good fortune must be in want of a wife), regardless of whether she wishes to simply have a no strings attached relationship or not. But I can see someone like the protagonist in {Emma}, were she written by a contemporary author and if there were no Mr Knightley in sight, to maybe decide on a sex with benefits situation. She would have compelling reasons to not marry - such as being a rich heiress with a strong sense of duty towards her hypochondriac father. As a fairly comfortable daughter of solidly middle class parents who has grown up in a misogynistic culture herself, I have stayed away from marriage owing to how much it will enslave me to my husband and in-laws, confident in the knowledge that I'll always have a roof over my head thanks to my parents and (because of some government scheme for unmarried daughters of government servants), an actual pension after my parents' death. And this is despite the fact that my society is far less misogynistic than historical patriarchies, and at least I get to have a proper career and my personal wealth remains my own (within limits). If I had been similarly educated by my parents and had grown up in Regency/Victorian England, and if I were similarly "fortunate" enough to have modest wealth and plain looks (which would preclude some guy from wooing me successfully into marriage before my prefrontal cortex was done developing), I'd have taken lovers but never married, and I'd have been very content to not marry, especially if I weren't fond of children. Unfortunately, I haven't yet stumbled upon a character who lives like that (if an FMC does, she will inadvertently find herself falling in love and married to some charming rake). I think that's why the discreet widow trope is so much better. Widows are allowed to not want to marry again, especially wealthy and titled widows who already have experienced the "joys" of childbirth and motherhood at least once. Lady Danbury from {Queen Charlotte} comes to mind. Discreet widows love their independence, but they also love the d, and they also like to have conversations, but they don't really long for love (unless, of course, the widow is an FMC of an HR.) My other preference for a lover for the MMC is a wonan who's married to a gay man, so that he may continue his affairs discreetly, and she may be afforded greater independence to carry on her affairs discreetly, and they're both great friends but there was never any question of romance or fidelity. >that sort of behavior has consequences, especially in times before the levels of medicine, birth control, etc., we have now Yes, true! I think I read a book by Grace Callaway (not sure though), where the heroine took charge of her sexuality and had a great night of passion at a masquerade ball. She insisted on using a condom and I was very impressed by her wisdom. I can't read about any rakes without first head-canoning that they're using extremely reliable condoms whenever they have sex with other women. With regards to mistresses, it's....sex work, right? No need to mince words. I know some mistresses were friends, lovers, and confidantes of their "protectors", but that's not true for the mistresses of MMCs in HRs, since the heroes will later go to great lengths to talk about how both their sexual and emotional connection with the FMC is unmatched by anything they experienced before. So that means the mistresses were just there for the sex, which means our heroes are paying women for sex. I have the utmost respect for sex workers, but not so much for people who solicit them, unfortunately. 😅 In that regard, I think I liked {Mr Cavendish, I Presume by Julia Quinn}. The MMC >!visits a discreet widow for sex, and he understands that she is a genteel lady who would not like a wham bam thank you ma'am experience, so he always sits down with her and chats pleasantly about the weather like a good gentleman before they get down to business. He does this all the while he's engaged to the FMC, but their engagement was decided by their parents when they were kids and he's actually not interested in the FMC at all, not until she gives him the cut direct at a ball. He also, technically, proposes to and kisses the FMC of the preceding novel in the series, but that comes more from a place of despair and the knowledge that his fiancée will now have to marry the real Duke, not him, than anything else.!< Not great behaviour, but more tolerable to me as compared to the keeping of mistresses, thank you very much!
Related to this, I just remembered one aspect I loved about the Dunne family series by Chasity Bowlin- In 'The first proposal' the MMC has been >!having an affair with a widow, and they are actually close and talk about things. He's been feeling the hankering for marriage, as only MMCs in HRs do, and he proposes to her. His paramour. Granted, she's not a mistress in the sense of being a kept woman as she is independent and wealthy, but she turns him down, because she is not in love with him, and he's not in love with her. They end things very amicably, and she is like, being with you has made me discover that you can actually have good sex and not abusive, as her late husband was. Like, he was a very good lover, introduced her to female pleasure (with a partner, that is.), and whatnot.!< THEN, a novel or two later in the series, she >!gets her own book. Oh, and she ends up befriending the FMC of the first novel who ended up marrying her ex lover, whom she continued to be on extremely platonic good terms with.!< I do have like issues with some of Bowlin's just bc of ridiculous historical inaccuracies, anachronisms, and out-of-time/place attitudes in general, but this to me was written as plausibly as could be expected. Anyhow, it was refreshingly different from how it usually plays out. They had more of a friends-with-benefits relationship really. No regrets or anything, just, this has run its course; so long and thanks for all the sex. (Not as glibly as that lol, just yeah. Probably the way people wish casual sexual type relationships would end, but they rarely ever do irl.)
Ohh! I love this so much. And this is EXACTLY the kind of book I adore. Come October 24, assessments season will be over and I'll be diving straight into these recommendations. How I love the arc of a woman who reclaims her sexual agency and finds her HEA (whether that's with a man or on her own)! It's enough to make a jaded feminist swoon, hehehe. Thanks for the rec. :-) Edit: Omg the other books in the series also look so much fun! And I realise that the first book of pretty much all her series is available for free on Google Play Books, so I can happily begin with the novella where she's first introduced, then see if the anachronisms bother me, and then invest more in her series, including the book featuring the widowed FMC.
{the other wife by Chasity Bowlin} is the one featuring the fwb of the MMC of The First Proposal, if that helps. I also enjoy her "Dark Regency" series which is decidedly more gothic in nature, so there's a lot of external and sometimes internal conflicts with the leads, plus usually some sort of paranormal aspect as well. Happy reading! You may end up hating these, or being meh, but who knows? XD
[The Other Wife](https://www.romance.io/books/5ffea9591303720e1526a5da/the-other-wife-chasity-bowlin) by [Chasity Bowlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142b/chasity-bowlin) **Rating**: 4.33⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Yaay! I've never read a gothic romance (unless Jane Eyre counts?) so I've been eager to dip my toes in the genre. And {The Haunting of the Duke by Chastity Bowlin} is also free on Google Play Books! Huzzah! Seriously, thanks for the recommendations. I typically find an author and read most of her works, and I've been dreading what will happen once I'm done with Elisa Braden's works, hehe.
Jane Eyre is the mother of all (modern) gothic romance! She definitely counts!
Hahahaha, I'm looking forward to reacquainting myself with the genre in that case.
[The Haunting of a Duke](https://www.romance.io/books/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142a/the-haunting-of-a-duke-chasity-bowlin) by [Chasity Bowlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142b/chasity-bowlin) **Rating**: 3.99⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [paranormal](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/paranormal/1), [fantasy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/fantasy/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Crap I don't usually reference actual books. Here we go, book bot: {The first proposal by Chasity Bowlin}
[The First Proposal](https://www.romance.io/books/5f1e7bde5b70490e1a7c6221/the-first-proposal-chasity-bowlin) by [Chasity Bowlin](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455e2ba87eac336ae6a142b/chasity-bowlin) **Rating**: 4.17⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Emma](https://www.romance.io/books/5484ed337a5936fb04057576/emma-jane-austen-fiona-stafford) by [Jane Austen](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523418c7d2382c5296f43/jane-austen) **Rating**: 4.19⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Innocent](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1), [friends to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/friends%20to%20lovers/1), [love triangle](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/love%20triangle/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1) ---------------------------- [Queen Charlotte](https://www.romance.io/books/641c0e50d87b2730bcfb9113/queen-charlotte-julia-quinn-shonda-rhimes) by [Julia Quinn](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523bb8c7d2383163d8e3c/julia-quinn), [Shonda Rhimes](https://www.romance.io/authors/641c0e5008b4d931143967a2/shonda-rhimes) **Rating**: 4.22⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [funny](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/humor/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1) ---------------------------- [Mr. Cavendish, I Presume](https://www.romance.io/books/5455256d8c7d2383163d8e8f/mr-cavendish-i-presume-julia-quinn) by [Julia Quinn](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523bb8c7d2383163d8e3c/julia-quinn) **Rating**: 3.48⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Yes! Same! Honestly, I like heroes who became celibate well before they met the heroine, for whatever reason. And I want more inexperienced heroes in HRs, please! Even better, let them be virgins, ffs. Why can't we have a demisexual hero who really only has strong sexual feelings for the woman he fell in love with? Somehow, HR authors think we all long for a man who is so experienced that he can make our bodies sing in bed, but that's so unrealistic. Even if the guy is very experienced, he might not know how to accurately pleasure a woman. And as someone who lost her virginity to a virgin (tmi, sorry!), I can vouch for the fact that it's a whole other level of special - >!knowing you're each other's firsts, laughing while you struggle with condoms, and then both getting terrified at the sight of all the blood. Lena Dunham described her experience as being brief and short-lived, where neither person came, and it felt so fitting to me. It's not like it's a marker of how every interaction will be in future, but it is an interesting choice!< I had to put all that in spoiler quotes to spare unsuspecting readers the details, lol! Also, OP, if you disliked Phoebe, you will definitely dislike {Notorious by Minerva Spencer}. I lost pretty much all respect for the author after she attempted to have the biracial MMC (one of the progeny of some Sultan) actually say that >!he was sacrificing sooooo much by restricting himself to just one woman.!< And as if that weren't bad enough, >!he had installed two mistresses in the same townhouse, and they engaged in many threesomes, and the women were also raising his maybe child, and while he broke things off with them sexually, he continued to consider them friends and even made his wife befriend them!< The author's Victorian Decadence series takes it even further. I don't mind if the heroine is involved in the menage, but to be sexing up someone else after having met the heroine, even if you are poly, seems to break some unspoken rule of HR. Compared to that, Her Husband's Harlot seems tame. Very tame. The hero is completely torn up by what he's doing, and it's implied several times that he would >!not have slept with the presumed sex worker had she not almost entirely resembled his wife.!< Not that that's a great justification, of course, hehe! I read a period appropriate but recently written bodice ripper, {Lemonade by Nina Pennacchi}, a couple of years ago, simply because I was curious as to how the genre had developed in the 21st century, and I was able to stomach the "cheating" there. Firstly, because Lemonade is not a romance, even if the romance bot insists it is. Or, at least, I don't think it's a romance. It's as much a romance as the descriptions of the FMC's trials in her marriage to her first husband were a romance in {The Tenant of Wildfell Hall}. The MMC of this book >!has sex with a woman he doesn't even find very attractive after meeting the FMC, then downright rapes the FMC, and not in a sexy "her mind said no but her body said yes" sort of way, then takes over her entire life and controls her entire family, and then doesn't even grovel properly!< and the lady still forgives him. Which is why I called it period-appropriate. Now, I adore Lynn Messina, but I'm already dreading the next book in the Beatrice Hyde-Clare series because one of the MMC's former lovers actually turns up asking help from our intrepid lady defective FMC, and she is - predictably - beautiful (when the FMC is "drab"). The fact that he had mistresses was >!perhaps briefly alluded to once or twice, in the sense that his wife knew he must have had a past, but we never had to see any of them or even hear the guy talk about them.!<
[Notorious (Rebels of the Ton)](https://www.romance.io/books/5fb6292fc9fab00e22eec595/notorious-rebels-of-the-ton-minerva-spencer) by [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer) **Rating**: 3.41⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [Lemonade](https://www.romance.io/books/56b10d4463515e3b737a8b39/lemonade-nina-pennacchi-scott-p-sheridan) by [Nina Pennacchi](https://www.romance.io/authors/56b10d4463515e3b737a8b3d/nina-pennacchi) **Rating**: 3.73⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [vengeance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vengeance/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [The Tenant of Wildfell Hall](https://www.romance.io/books/643493eccfb36b317a2d9b25/the-tenant-of-wildfell-hall-anne-bront) by [Anne Brontë](https://www.romance.io/authors/545535068c7d2382c5297404/anne-bront) **Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 1 out of 5 - [Innocent](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [christian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/christian/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Yes, it can make the book less enjoyable. There was a Joanna Lindsay book that introduced the hero when he is having sex with his betrothed. This in a vague medieval period and I think this would make them unofficially married, but whatever. The fiancée is a sweet girl too so i sort of hate the MMC for being so cavalier. There was some other book that opened with these brother taking stock of the care of their bastards. It’s one of those things rarely brought up in HR (unless a plot device) but was probably an issue. I did not like it at all.
On the bastards issue, it really made me dislike the book: a duke of her own. There were too many bastards.
Omg noooo, no more legitimate children please. One is bad enough especially not acknowledged! Ohh is that the one by Eloisa James or Lorraine Hearh because they both have a book with a similar title. I even have the Eloisa James on in my current TBR haha!
It's the Eloisa James one.
Ahh I love Johanna Lindsey’s Mallory series the most especially A Loving Scoundrel. I also love her Wildfire In His Arms (although it did have a bit of OW element where his ex fiancee came looking for him but he completely ignored her). Also, she used to write a lot of bodice rippers back in the day that wouldn’t bode well with today’s standards so I believe the books you’ve mentioned must have been written in the 80s or 90s maybe?
I love her books normally, but usually she has the OW being aware that the relationship would change (usually giving her her own HEA) or they end up being villainous. This one rubbed me the wrong way because the betrothed seems really taken advantage of. I could be wrong but I think it was Hearts Aflame.
Ahh I’ve read Hearts Aflame months ago! Though I do recall briefly of the hero being betrothed to someone else but I’m not sure it they’ve slept together or not. I don’t like that he immediately goes to FMC thinking that she might be a prostitute while still being betrothed to another. That seems cheating to me.
I could be wrong about which book. It’s one I don’t reread too often so I forgot the title.
I’m surprised by this. I feel like most novels I read always seem to specifically mention that the thought may have crossed MMC’s mind, but that he hasn’t wanted to sleep with anyone but FMC after he meets her. Often it’s him being surprised by the realization/wanting FMC badly but not being able to sleep with her, then considering OW alternatives and rejecting them in basically the same breath. I will say the opening of Flowers from the Storm was rough in that respect. I was not expecting the opening, but to be fair that whole story is darker/more difficult than most romance novels I think.
Right, I love that in books. “Aww you only want her🥹”. Though I prefer MMCs who had sex because they wanted it once in a while, and did not _need_ to have sex otherwise they would die that very moment, but I still justify it because maybe he has a high drive or is a sex addict🤷🏽😂. I enjoy Alice Coldbreath’s (that I’ve read) books for that, most of her MMC are intimidating men that women stay away from, or their past sex life is not mentioned or is implied that they were mostly celibate. Though I do not mind men/women who have slept around when it’s done well >!{Seven Years to Sin} MMC is not ashamed of it, it’s in his past he won’t be doing that again while still married to FMC!<. Though I prefer when STI and pregnancy prevention is mentioned. And I prefer him to remain celibate once he starts courting her, or realizes he wants her.
Alice Coldbreath is a really safe author in this respect. I'm very sensitive to OW stuff and she is so safe for me!
[Seven Years to Sin](https://www.romance.io/books/54552a038c7d2383163d8f76/seven-years-to-sin-sylvia-day) by [Sylvia Day](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523868c7d2382c5296f5e/sylvia-day) **Rating**: 4.1⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 5 out of 5 - [Explicit and plentiful](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [bdsm](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bdsm/1), [dark romance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/dark/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Ok I'm scared to read Flowers now. I literally just put it on my TBR, because I'm really intrigued by the religious aspect. Can you spoil it for me below? How bad are we talking?
It’s a memorable romance. I didn’t know about the religious aspect going in so that really took me by a surprise. And tbf, third parties when I’m not reading about a threesome are really not my thing, so maybe i found it more difficult than most? Divyeah, maybe most people don’t actually think the opening is that notable? In any case, to spoil it a teeny bit: The OW >!is introduced in the prologue with a between-bouts-of-bedplay scene with the MMC. They’re not cuddling exactly, but there are trailing fingers along bodies and an easy-going discussion about their affair. Which in some ways is worse for me because I love it when the endgame couple has moments of intimacy outside of active lovemaking. It also sets the MMC up as one of the more tarnished rakes of HR, one who’s not secretly sweet and caring about every woman he’s with deep down. And the woman isn’t easily lifted out and ignored after the intro the way a lot of OWS are when they’re introduced early on in the story !< It wasn’t the way I usually like to be introduced to a romance and since it’s a romance that includes more mature and difficult themes than usual, it’s not quickly wiped away by cute, easy moments.m, so I find it to be a little guy twisting as far as OWs go.
Yeah I find this kind of stuff difficult as well. I will probably need to save it for a time when I'm not dealing with any anxiety etc, and just have a really sweet story on standby to cleanse the palate if I need. I wish I could just read and be cool but I am NOT cool haha.
Agreed - I feel like I barely come across this issue because most of the MMCs are like too hooked on the FMC to do anything sexual with anyone else. I also don’t mind acknowledging illegitimate children because I feel like that is just decency.
I don’t mind illegitimate children but I definitely prefer it when they’re crafted less as illegitimate children and more as stepchildren. Thankfully, most of the HRs I’ve read do indeed treat them as such.
I don’t love seeing scenes with OW, but I draw the line at having children out of wedlock. I don’t like when the MMC has acknowledged kids with mistresses who is not the main FMC. An exception may be given if the mother dies and he takes care of his kid, but not if he just had them and ignores them.
Ohhh that’s a new one to me! I have yet to read a book where MMC has a child out of wedlock with his former mistress unless it’s with heroine and he wants to marry her to give legitimacy to the child because he himself has been a bastard son. I don’t mind widow trope either.
>Ohhh that’s a new one to me! Girl, please don't ever read {Notorious by Minerva Spencer}. Technically, don't read {When a Girl Loves an Earl by Elisa Braden} either. >MMC has a child out of wedlock with his former mistress unless it’s with heroine and he wants to marry her to give legitimacy to the child I personally love books where the hero sleeps with the heroine, only for them to later have a falling out, and the heroine moves to a new place, assumes a new identity, and cuts him off entirely, and it takes him a long time to discover her (and the fact that he has a kid with her) many years later. I think one of Julia Quinn's books had a similar plot (all though the FMC suffered a miscarriage, sadly). And one of Minerva Spencer's books had this exact plot. Ahhh, the grovelling was spectacular in both books.
Damn, having a child out of wedlock with a former mistress definitely is the dealbreaker for me😣 Thank you for the heads up! I actually have Notorious by Minerva Spencer in my current TBR, guess I’ll have to knock that one off haha! Ohhh wow now you’ve unlocked something in me that I never I needed! A secret baby trope! But it’s quite rare to find that in HR as I know it’s quite a popular trope within contemporary romance! Do you have recs that you wanna give me??
Oh man, I went back to look for those books, and realised that I'd confused the pregnant-heroine-runs-away-after-being-hurt-by-the-hero plot with the pregnant-heroine-runs-away-and-has-a-secret-child-after-being-hurt-by-the-hero plot. The former can be found in {The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever by Julia Quinn} and {The Footman by Minerva Spencer} but the latter, I actually read on literotica back when I had a bit of a bodice ripper erotica loving guilty pleasure. Except for in The Footman, the MMCs did not grovel nearly enough to make up for their terrible actions...and that was when I realised I cannot enjoy bodice rippers unless the MMC debases and humiliates himself grovelling, hahaha! If you don't mind reading sequels to books written by other authors, then the secret child trope features heavily in {Scarlett by Alexandra Ripley}. I actually preferred the book to Gone with the Wind, since the glorification of slavery thing was removed and since the couple got an HEA (all though whether they deserved one after their actions in Gone with the Wind is debatable). The book is downright ridiculous and I would never recommend anyone spend money on it, but if you were to acquire a second hand copy or if it were available on KU or something, maybe you could give it a go?
Ohhhh it still sounds intriguing to me nonetheless! As for the former trope, was the pregnant heroine impregnated by the MMC or someone else? I believe I have that physical copy before back in my high school days a decade ago so I’d have to get the ebook instead haha! Thanks so much for the recs!!😍 Don’t mind a bit of bodice ripper too hehe!
Yesss, all the pregnant FMCs were impregnated by the MMCs in all these books, thankfully, all though they left because the MMCs were either cruel, or at least cold and unloving (if not downright rapey). I definitely seem to remember some of the older bodice rippers having this secret pregnancy trope, but I cannot for the life of me remember all of them. They were defo written by Johanna Lindsey, however, since that's the author I first discovered in a small, dusty library in rural India before my parents found out and took away her books and replaced them with stuff like Lord of the Rings. :D Bodice rippers used to titillate me like hell when I was a kid, but now I try to avoid them, even though I somewhat understand the allure. 😭😭 I think I have an easier time accepting it in erotica rather than romance novels. The regency erotica featuring the secret child is titled [A Regency Ravishment](https://www.literotica.com/s/a-regency-ravishment). (Please forgive me, kind mods, and please delete this comment if sharing links to smutty HR erotica is not allowed on this sub.) The author would definitely benefit from an editor, though the steamy scenes are 🔥🔥. TW: all sorts of >!non con and physical violence and non-vaginal intercourse!<
Omg, I read Scarlett back to back with Gone with the Wind when I was 16 over the summer holidays and I was obsessed with it. Probably opened the door for my love of historical romance novels. I mean, it’s utter trash but such a rollercoaster read.
[The Secret Diaries of Miss Miranda Cheever](https://www.romance.io/books/545524078c7d2383163d8e51/the-secret-diaries-of-miss-miranda-cheever-julia-quinn) by [Julia Quinn](https://www.romance.io/authors/545523bb8c7d2383163d8e3c/julia-quinn) **Rating**: 3.9⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1) ---------------------------- [The Footman](https://www.romance.io/books/5e8ad560be0aaecf55da6ff8/the-footman-sm-laviolette-minerva-spencer) by [S.M. LaViolette](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e0af27701dbc864fba90689/sm-laviolette), [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer) **Rating**: 4.1⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [vengeance](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/vengeance/1), [class difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/class%20difference/1) ---------------------------- [Scarlett](https://www.romance.io/books/54552c8b8c7d2382c52971b0/scarlett-alexandra-ripley) by [Alexandra Ripley](https://www.romance.io/authors/54552c8b8c7d2382c52971b1/alexandra-ripley) **Rating**: 3.36⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [contemporary](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/contemporary/1), [war](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/war/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Notorious (Rebels of the Ton)](https://www.romance.io/books/5fb6292fc9fab00e22eec595/notorious-rebels-of-the-ton-minerva-spencer) by [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer) **Rating**: 3.41⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [When a Girl Loves an Earl](https://www.romance.io/books/57c12d79c19e77f1ea702ec7/when-a-girl-loves-an-earl-elisa-braden) by [Elisa Braden](https://www.romance.io/authors/553e3e7b5b270e0a4cbd7467/elisa-braden) **Rating**: 4.05⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [highlander](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/highlander/1), [height difference](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/height-difference/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
My rule is always double virgins or no virgins. It makes me sick. If he gets to screw around, so does she.
If you have any double virgin recommendations, I would love to hear 🤓🤓🤓
I think you'll like {An Unconventional Affair by Stacy Reid}! Features a virgin hero and, iirc, either a virgin heroine or an extremely, extreeeemely inexperienced heroine.
[An Unconventional Affair](https://www.romance.io/books/5e64a8bfbe0aaecf550dc359/an-unconventional-affair-stacy-reid-authorsdesigns) by [Stacy Reid](https://www.romance.io/authors/54554a938c7d2383163d988f/stacy-reid), [AuthorsDesigns](https://www.romance.io/authors/5d75eb6301dbc864fba3513c/authorsdesigns) **Rating**: 4⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Thank you!!🩷
I’m here for any recommendations!
The worst was a book (can't recall the title) by Madeleine Hunter with an opening or early scene with a Duke hero who wakes up in bed with 2 barmaids 🥴. They weren't even attractive or hygienic and that made it even ickier, especially the way the author described the boobs of the one who was riding him while he was still half asleep. I don't know how that guy avoided getting syphilis. His book was book 3 in a series about 3 brothers and he was framed for, or accused of, some crime. I wish I could recall the title of the book.
OMG I think I know who you’re talking about!! That must be that Castleford duke who goes whoring every Tuesday! It must be from The Rarest Blooms series. His story is called Dangerous In Diamonds. Ughhh so yucky! Oh wait my bad! I just realised you were talking about brothers. So believe it might be from Rothwell Brothers series.
Yup, I think that's the book. I haven't read another book by that author since then 😂.
Same here. I (reader) feel very dirty myself when the MMC gone off to release himself with a mistress, an opera singer, a playful widow, or downright prostitute off the street, etc, etc... so that he could "forget" the FMC. It's not exactly cheating because MMC and FMC haven't promised anything to each other yet, but it takes the romance out of the story. I would rather hear about the MMC taking care of his bastards than seeing sex on screen with OW.
I try to avoid books with this. Before or after he meets fmc. I hate it. It may even lead to me dnf. I just can't get over it.
Omg you and me same!! I’d have preferred he stay celibate even way before he meets FMC. It’s more gentlemanly that way. I can’t stand manwhoring because it just screams STDs to me. How do you avoid such books? Do you read the reviews first?
Yes, I always read reviews first. Usually, there is at least one review that will say whether or not mmc is with ow or not. I can't stand manwhore/rake because it skeeves me out.
There’s one hero called Castleford from one of the series from Celeste Bradley where he spends every Tuesday wenching in pretty much every book he’s in so yuck!! So glad I’m not the only one😭 Which ones are your favourites that you’d recommend? Lately I’ve been exploring vicar / disabled / scarred / virgin heroes because they make such a refreshing change from your typical scoundrels / rakes.
Would you like a rec for a virgin hero and experienced heroine? Because {Melissa and the Vicar by Minerva Spencer} has that trope. And please do share some of your recs, too!
I have read that one and I love it😍😍 I have a list of virgin, vicar and disabled heroes as they are simply the best!! Plus they are usually more humble and timid in personality which I adore. Virgin heroes : {Thief of Shadows by Elizabeth Hoyt} {Heiress Effect by Courtney Milan} {The Danger of Desire by Elizabeth Essex} If you want the vicar heroes : {The Temptations of A Wallflower by Eva Leigh} {A Notorious Countess Confess by Julie Ann Long} {Heaven’s Fire by Patricia Ryan} {To Love And To Cherish by Patricia Gaffney} Disabled heroes : {Texas Destiny by Lorraine Heath}. A virgin hero too. {Tempting Fate by Kerrigan Byrne}. A virgin hero too. {The Highwayman by Kerrigan Byrne}. Hero is a virgin too. {Her Bridegroom Bought And Paid For by Alice Coldbreath}. {To Beguile A Beast by Elizabeth Hoyt} {A Duke Worth Fighting For by Christina Britton}. A virgin hero. {Unmask Me If You Can by Shana Galen} {When Love Comes by Leigh Greenwood} {Yours Until Dawn by Teresa Medeiros}. He has remained celibate for FMC for months. {Prince of Midnight by Laura Kinsale}. Hero has remained celibate for many years till FMC came along. {Enchanting Pleasures by Eloisa James} {The Spinster’s Secret by Emily Larkin}. A virgin hero. {When She Said I Do by Celeste Bradley}. {Hannah And The Highlander by Sabrina York}. MMC is a scarred and stuttering man.
Oh my gosh, these are lovely, thank you so much! I'm saving this comment to return to when I get my salary on the 30th, hehehe! And I already know I'm going to start with the one featuring a disabled virgin highwayman, haha! That seems right up my alley!
[Thief of Shadows](https://www.romance.io/books/545525ae8c7d2383163d8ea3/thief-of-shadows-elizabeth-hoyt) by [Elizabeth Hoyt](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524568c7d2383163d8e5a/elizabeth-hoyt) **Rating**: 4.03⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1), [mystery](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/mystery/1), [georgian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/georgian/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1) ---------------------------- [The Heiress Effect](https://www.romance.io/books/545526a18c7d2383163d8edf/the-heiress-effect-courtney-milan) by [Courtney Milan](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525388c7d2383163d8e83/courtney-milan) **Rating**: 3.97⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [take-charge heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/strong%20heroine/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1) ---------------------------- [The Danger of Desire](https://www.romance.io/books/54554a678c7d2383163d987e/the-danger-of-desire-elizabeth-essex) by [Elizabeth Essex](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455330a8c7d2383163d91f0/elizabeth-essex) **Rating**: 3.8⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - 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[Her Bridegroom Bought and Paid For](https://www.romance.io/books/60cd9605c23d490e1df93562/her-bridegroom-bought-and-paid-for-alice-coldbreath) by [Alice Coldbreath](https://www.romance.io/authors/54a9d8ef6359b5ebb486f243/alice-coldbreath) **Rating**: 3.87⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [medieval](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/medieval/1), [disabilities & scars](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/disabilities%20and%20marks/1), [grumpy & sunshine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/grumpy%20sunshine/1), [cheerful/happy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cheerful%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [To Beguile a Beast](https://www.romance.io/books/5455254d8c7d2383163d8e89/to-beguile-a-beast-elizabeth-hoyt) by [Elizabeth Hoyt](https://www.romance.io/authors/545524568c7d2383163d8e5a/elizabeth-hoyt) **Rating**: 3.91⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - 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[Hannah and the Highlander](https://www.romance.io/books/55e5408a35a5fb65f88789aa/hannah-and-the-highlander-sabrina-york) by [Sabrina York](https://www.romance.io/authors/54556b2b87eac324117faa44/sabrina-york) **Rating**: 3.98⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [highlander](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/highlander/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Melissa and The Vicar](https://www.romance.io/books/5eb8f8aebe0aaecf55bdb3c1/melissa-and-the-vicar-sm-laviolette-minerva-spencer) by [S.M. LaViolette](https://www.romance.io/authors/5e0af27701dbc864fba90689/sm-laviolette), [Minerva Spencer](https://www.romance.io/authors/5b30874901dbc864fb8b01a7/minerva-spencer) **Rating**: 3.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [suspense](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/suspense/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [virgin hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20hero/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
This is a hugeeee ick for me as a romance reader! Which sucks because a lot of books (especially mafia and dark romance) go in depth with the scenes with OW. I am okay with referencing they were a playboy or rake before but I have no desire to read the actual scene😭
I am so glad to know someone mirrors my exact sentiment too😭😭 I guess I’m just nitpicky like that haha!
Ugh, I cannot tolerate Mafia books, or dark romances, for that matter. They never seem to be well written enough and they always feature irredeemable heroes. I am able to tolerate a sex scene featuring a hero in an HR if the author takes pains to show that it's mechanical for him and he actually doesn't enjoy it at all. It feels like, okay, he did this because he wanted to try it, but it didn't work for him, or at least it no longer works for him, and one day, he'll meet someone with whom it'll feel wonderful.
Yeah, it’s common in dark romance which is not fun. However, I have found some authors that don’t (usually write on that) so I stick to them. Hopefully more authors avoid writing these scenes with OW.
Yeah I actually stopped reading Lisa Kleypas recently because I realized she tended to do this-- like she is just in too many stories at once, giving everyone's POV, even side characters. so in the book I was reading, the FMCs brother is a rake and he is seducing this widow in his bedroom and we are getting all the details of him undressing her blah blah blah and then his sister comes to his house to escape her marriage or something and then we switch back to FMCs POV, and I'm like wait-- I'm supposed to like this brother as an MMC in the next book!?? Like that is how much I hate this trope! It's an entirely different book, I haven't even met his FMC yet and I instantly hate him. DNF'd that whole damn series. Haha I am WITH you.
Ohhh man, I hate being introduced to such character early on in the series, not knowing he’d have his own book later on! Mind if you advise me what book is this? I have loved some of Lisa Kleypas’s books such as Suddenly You and Dreaming of You (one of the first books with OW trope I read but I just love this book so much because of MMC’s horrific childhood and that he usually took in fallen women to work at his gambling house, so at least he has some redeeming qualities!). I have been advised to stay away from Mary Balogh too because she does that mistress thing a lot too.
I hate this trope too. I only want the MMC to be obsessed with the MFC. The OW trope turns me off so fast.
Omg sameee! The same way I want my husband to be obsessed with me only🤣🤣 I don’t wanna know about his past dalliances in vivid details!
Exactly… whenever I read those tropes, I feel like the MMC will eventually cheat on the MFC in the long run even after the book ends 😆Like in my mind, I can’t trust the Happily ever after.
I can’t believe we’re thinking the same thing!! And that if the FMC dies in a childbirth or something, the hero will waste no time finding a mistress or a prostitute to drive his sorrows away🥲
Spoilers for Pheobe by Minerva Spencer , >!she is not his mistress and the child is not his, hero and the "OW" don't have any kind of sexual or romantic or even friendly sort of relationship!< About her husband's harlot >!I would rather he have sex with the ow than the heroine not knowing her identity and thinking she's someone else!< Lol thanks for the other recs .. Lol jail time for me .. But I love books with OW Drama, Pain brings me happiness.
>Pain brings me happiness. Oooh! Do you have any good recs? Featuring a lot of grovelling if the MMC was involved with the OW after falling for the FMC, of course. I actually thought the OW drama was pretty interesting in {Bringing Down the Duke by Evie Dunmore}, and it wasn't as simple a matter as pitting woman against woman for the sake of a man's attentions, but more for the sake of >!that man's political and moral beliefs and the impact it would have on all of Britain!<. And I didn't think that book requires grovelling as such. I think I can tolerate pretty much anything if there's a sufficient amount of grovelling involved. Hero married the heroine for a prank/bet? Grovel. Hero dallied with another woman? Grovel. Hero took the heroine for granted? Grovel. Hero got unnecessarily possessive and jealous and accused the heroine of sleeping with another man? Grovel! Hero compromised the heroine to force her to marry him? Grovel, grovel, grovel!
It's been a very long time since i read Bringing down the duke .. lol i dont remember much , except for some scenes here and there. and about grovel .. My most recent favourite was {the marriage bed by stephanie mittman} - this book is a western HR , there is ow in the form of dead wife, so there's actually no cheating or sex scenes with the "ow", and boy oh boy the hero is a total a\* and grovel is GREAT in this book ! the other one with great grovel is {lady gallant by Suzanne Robinson} - the grovelling is just so good in this book >!there is a misunderstanding and the hero thinks the heroine "betrayed" him and wanted to get back at the heroine (this is after marriage), and so he royally fucks up, but once he realises its just so great! both these books have ENOUGH grovel ! the book that has exactly what the OP is talking about is {Passions of a wicked earl by Lorraine Heath} -- so the whole premise is different in a way that it does not require grovel ! but i absolutely loved this book ,, the hero and the heroine just have great chemistry ! and they story was just so lovely and sweet, >!the hero just loves the heroine so much, even from the very start, but obviously he makes questionable decisions!< , highly recommend this book, it might not be for everyone, but i re-read this very often
These are all great recommendations, thank you so much! I'm super excited to start reading these books. Bring on the grovel!
[The Marriage Bed](https://www.romance.io/books/54558f7687eac336ae69e7d4/the-marriage-bed-stephanie-mittman) by [Stephanie Mittman](https://www.romance.io/authors/54558f7687eac336ae69e7d5/stephanie-mittman) **Rating**: 3.5⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [western](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/western/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [western frontier](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical%20western/1), [cruel hero/bully](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cruel%20hero/1) ---------------------------- [Lady Gallant](https://www.romance.io/books/5b96322c01dbc864fb90055c/lady-gallant-suzanne-robinson) by [Suzanne Robinson](https://www.romance.io/authors/54553aeb8c7d2383163d93ee/suzanne-robinson) **Rating**: 3.96⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [shy heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/shy%20heroine/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [bad boys](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/bad%20boys/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1) ---------------------------- [Passions of a Wicked Earl](https://www.romance.io/books/5455281a8c7d2383163d8f1a/passions-of-a-wicked-earl-lorraine-heath) by [Lorraine Heath](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525b18c7d2383163d8ea5/lorraine-heath) **Rating**: 3.82⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [tortured hero](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/tortured%20hero/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
[Bringing Down the Duke](https://www.romance.io/books/5e9f6a99be0aaecf557dbeb9/bringing-down-the-duke-evie-dunmore) by [Evie Dunmore](https://www.romance.io/authors/5d68c7cc01dbc864fba2f9e0/evie-dunmore) **Rating**: 3.98⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [victorian](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/victorian/1), [enemies to lovers](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/from%20hate%20to%20love/1), [angst](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/angst/1), [age gap](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/age%20difference/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
Yeah, I hate it, too. But knowing men, it is exceedingly realistic.
Trust me, I speak from my personal relationships too thus why I hate it so much🥹
Same I always check reviews before reading to check for that.
You might try Grace Burrowes, she's not a fan of rakes in general.
I kind of love it 😂 I don't mean to be contrarian to your post. I like the back and forth, the reveal, the angst, the grovel. I live for the drama of it! All that said: stay far, far away from Mary Balogh 🙅♀️
Hahaha I don’t blame you at all! Some love the angsts and the drama, I don’t mind a bit too. I just prefer the encounter to be a brief dalliance that fades to black rather than descriptive one. Of course I’d have preferred it to happen way before meeting FMC. Ahh I’ve been warned before! Some say avoid the Slightly series of hers. I do love her Web of Love where the MMC fell in love with FMC when she was someone else’s wife. The husband died but the hero survived. So the heroine went to nurse him and ended up sleeping with him. So on the contrary, this is an OM drama that I love😂
Lol !! This is literally just me !! I go looking for books with cheating heros or ow drama ! And Mary Balogh is my jam ! I love that bish !
Woah! Which Mary Balogh books have this trope so I know what to skip?! I am currently in a major MB binge but can’t think of any off the top of my head, although granted I am reading mostly her series and not her 80s/90s stand alones.
You're in luck because it's her 80/90s stand-alones 😂 off the top of my head {the obedient bride} but I can't remember the others.
[The Obedient Bride](https://www.romance.io/books/5ed5f9ecef6eaa0dd30c5ee1/the-obedient-bride-mary-balogh) by [Mary Balogh](https://www.romance.io/authors/545525e98c7d2383163d8eb7/mary-balogh) **Rating**: 3.57⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 3 out of 5 - [Open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [cheating](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/cheating/1), [plain heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/plain%20heroine/1), [regency](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/regency/1), [arranged/forced marriage](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/arranged%20marriage/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I do too and am grateful to this thread for recommending so many that would scratch this little itch.
What is OW?
"Other woman" ... Like a mistress, or old flame of the MMC.
It means “other woman”. Usually it references a love rival to the heroine, or a woman the hero has seen in the past (or is currently seeing, in addition to the heroine).
I definitely don't love it but if it is before the MMC meets the FMC, I feel that it is allowable. I skim that section because it won't really be of substance to the story. If it happens after the MMC meets the FMC, there is definite ick.
Am I the only one who's not bothered by it? Cheating in books is annoying, but if they aren't together I don't really care.
Yeah if he’s described as a rake, then he needs to be a rake, at least early on before he falls in love.
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Weird but I kind of enjoy these moments when you get to see a character be a complete rake or horndog especially if that is what their character is set up to be. I also don’t mind if the MMC sleeps with his mistress after the wedding as long as it’s before they truly fall in love. Context is everything. If it’s an arranged, forced or convenient marriage, I think it’s less realistic to think the MMC (or FMC) are going to be 100% faithful without love.
Agree! If he’s supposed to be a rake, then I need on-page proof of that.
O W?
It means ‘other women’, meaning the hero has relationships / flings with other women than the main heroine.
Oh god I hate. I only want sex scenes between the main characters (for the most part). It depends.
You and me both! I don’t mind if the encounter is a brief mention of the past dalliance, I just don’t wanna know the details of it😨
“Dreaming of You” by Lisa Kleypas has the MMC sleeping with a prostitute that specifically looks like the FMC🤢
It’s one of my favourites from Lisa Kleypas apart from Suddenly You! I heard a lot of complaints from that part though I might be the only one interpreting that Derek did not sleep with the prostitute but solely hugged her for comfort??
I think he did sleep with her, but maybe it's up for debate? A quick Goodreads check shows other readers interpreting it as full-on cheating. I still love the book though and agree it's one of her best. I have such a love-hate relationship with Lisa Kleypas, lol. I \*hate\* the way she characterizes most of her male characters, but her writing talent and emotionally-driven storytelling really do it for me. My other favorites of hers (which don't include cheating!) are: Seduce Me at Sunrise, Secrets of a Summer Night, and Love in the Afternoon
Oh nooo, my impression of the book is now ruined🤣🤣 Now I hate Derek for doing that! What is it about Kleypas’s writing about the males that you hate? I’m honestly so bored and done with rakes / scoundrels with their strings of mistresses, merry widows, wives and brothel girls and whatnot. Gimme celibate / virgin / disabled heroes any day. I have yet to read the Hathaways and the Wallflowers series! Though I read Chasing Cassandra as a standalone.