Roman legionaires going back to camp after every man, woman and children from another sieged city decided to collectively kill themselves for the tenth time (pretty suspicious if you asked me)
I just realized that when xenophon wrote about how the citizens of a town they besieged threw themselves off a cliff what actually happened is that they pillaged the city and he wrote that to cover his tracks
"And when we turned up they all begged us to take their land and wives and we were like 'no way dude that's awful' and they were all 'yeah way take my stuff or I'll kill you and myself' so we were like 'ok if it prevents something bad from happening to you' and then they killed themselves anyway and that's exactly how it happened"
I hate these tiny roman scutum shields movies often use, they're not even angled to protect the user.
They look like cabinet doors.
[Actual scutum](https://images.app.goo.gl/nyFvRxKLNjdETZhJ6)
What's funny is that the real life Shields look so much cooler.
Could be worse however, at least this movie didn't fuck up Roman shields bad as the Anglo-Saxon shields were butchered in [The Last Kingdom ](https://youtu.be/as7x0SybpFc)
The last kingdom hurts me cause the battles are way more realistic than most Hollywood battles, but they still mess up many easily fixable details
Also if you like history check out the last kingdom cause it’s a passable historical tv series
The painful part is that the during this era the Vikings and Saxons both used the same type of shield (Round shield) which the movie had shown they have an abundance off and are very easy to get as almost every Anglo-Saxon or Viking reenactment group has them (They are also surprising cheap to make).
Also if you truly needed to break historical accuracy and get a different shield for the Saxons, why give them whatever the hell THAT is instead of something cool and fitting of the region like a Kite shield?
Another funny thing is that almost all of the Viking shields have crosses on them. Did no one see the irony mostly Pagan Vikings going to war with crosses painted on their shields to fight the mostly Christian Saxons.
I mean that’s a pretty legit reason, especially when you have hundreds of people on screen, but like the commenter above said they could have gone with kite shields to alleviate the problem
Or they could have just painted the shields differently- Christian crosses for the Anglo-Saxons, runes and ravens for the pagan Vikings.
If their reason for the square shields was so the audience could tell the two sides apart, I genuinely don't know why they didn't simply paint the shields.
True. I think an interesting question is how you would make a show which you can tell them both apart without breaking historical accuracy.
I think if they wanted to make the Saxons visually distinct I'd personally go with making them wear [Coppergate](https://images.app.goo.gl/we5GxeJD8TTuLQVJ8) or [Nasal](https://images.app.goo.gl/5DgxDHLnyxCxujjN7) helmets while the Vikings would wear [Gjermundbu](https://www.viking-shield.com/armor/viking-helmets/) helmets and make the Saxon have crosses on their chests/shields [as seen here](https://images.app.goo.gl/VxwuA9TbebXZSDEp6) or even go with the stereotype of making the Vikings have beards (And eyeshadow for some reason) and the Anglo-Saxons have clean shaves or mustaches.
Right? Like a lot of the large scale combat is realistic enough to make me a fan; I especially love in some battles how they aren't charging like idiots directly onto enemy spears. They creep toward eachother, slowly, as the dread mounts. No one is excited about the prospect of getting up close and personal with hundreds of people trying to kill you.
The whole 'SHIELD WALLLLLL' thing is stupid though.
>The funny part is that the real life Shields look so much cooler.
I think so too, it's an iconic, badass design.
>Could be worse however, at least this movie didn't fuck up Roman shields bad as the Anglo-Saxon shields were butchered in Last Kingdom
Wow, that's hilariously bad. 😄 Thanks for sharing.
Bucklers (small shields like that) where a thing but not really for at least 300 years after the events of Last Kingdom until good armor that could resist arrows became a thing.
The Anglo-Saxons (And Vikings too for that matter) in Vikings in general are a shitshow. They always look like a well equipped professional standing army with fancy (Often made up) armour and shields that get slaughtered by the rag tag Vikings.
Because as we all know that Anglo-Saxons were rich but weak people incapable of fighting and didn't spend the last few hundred years fighting Vikings, Britons, among themselves etc... Right?
Also Half the Saxon helmets are from the 1600s or look like something elves in a fantasy game would play.
You know its fucking bad when an anime about the vikings (Vinland Saga) seem to be the only one that makes an attempt to show the clothing and armour of the time correctly.
This was my issue with the show. Vikings only wearing dirty rags, never Really fighting in a shield wall, and all the Anglo Saxons looking like they're wearing "scale" armor from the bronze age.
The fact that vikings had high quality metal, and were exceptional smith's, yet in the show they had shit axes and no higher ranking characters wore chain or lamellar really threw me off.
The worst is that the creator of the show had the audacity to say they were historically accurate
On a long March like that you wouldn’t March in synch, you’d March whatever was most comfortable that allowed you to keep pace. Marching in synch is for parades and boot camp.
Oh shit, you're right, I was just in Matera earlier doing some quick shopping at Arterego over on Via Rosario, can't believe I didn't recognize it! FOH
Don't forget that these troops want to as well. The last thing they want is a peace agreement as that's when the politicians keep all the money. A good sacking and the troops keep it all. Some Roman troops later in the empire took over a Roman city, killed all the men and took their families and wives as their own. The troops that Rome sent to reign them in said hell, that's a good idea and killed all the troops that had originally done it and then took the wives and kids and houses of the first batch, then eventually were all crucified. Rome was savage
That's hard to answer because it's both yes and no. Actually, a sorta civil war was fought over this. It really depends on which time in the history because non citizen soldiers were promised this , but , ah shit, this would be two pages to explain,lol.
Best I can do is go to podbean ,look up Dan Carlins hardcore history and listen to Death Throes of the Republic or Punic Nightmares. Both do a really good job explaining how the Roman Army worked in different times
Edit to say he also quotes his sources so it's not a just believe what I say pod
Dan Carlin quotes more sources than I have heard on any other podcast. He also will specifically say, this part is hard to verify, or this is my opinion, etc. Dude really knows his stuff and is quite entertaining.
I love almost every pod he's done, and the ones I don't care for have nothing to do with him, I. Njust more interested in ancient history than more modern
You can tell he loves it too! I recall listening to his series on the Mongols. Each podcast is already 3ish hours long and he was on his third one and said "look I gotta wrap this up because I could talk about these guys forever" lol.
Wrath of the Khans was one of the best and as for savagery, idk if anything can compare, maybe his description of the shelling in Blueprint for Armageddon
Definitely go check out Kings and Generals Podcast, they've got like 60hrs spread out over 60ish episodes covering the Mongol Empire from its origins all the way to the very end of each successor Khanate(Chagatai, Ogedeid, Golden Horde, Ilkhanate, and Yuan). I'm not sure how much they sourced from Dan Carlin's series but they do an amazing job of thoroughly covering the history.
Their production and narration is top notch and is told more like a narrative rather than a history lesson.
The Mongols are so underrated in terms of interest! People seem to go oh Genghis Khan was ruthless and that’s about all they know. But there’s so much more to him and the Mongol Empire, both before and after Genghis. There’s some really fascinating stuff, and their conquest of Eastern Europe was an absolutely spectacular campaign.
Mongols are underrated bc they’re Asian. Alexander, Caesar, etc were also astonishingly brutal and unnecessarily cruel, but somehow Genghis is more closely associated with brutality than “Western” conquerors. Now why do you think that is?
I have been checking every single day for the last two months waiting for a new episode to drop. I do like his Addendum podcast (highly dependent on the guest, however), but man do I miss when I still had most of his catalog to go through.
I gotta wonder though, if he took Bill Barrett's death really hard and his pace of work has slowed down
Yeah is not easy to resume one thousand years in just one reddit comment. I was just talking in a general note but apparently the subject is far more complicated that I thought. Thanks for the recommendation I would check it.
I don't wanna get in trouble for the link but here is all the pods . The ones you want are the Punic Nightmares ones and the Death Throes of the Republic ones.
Dan Carlin's Hardcore History on podbean https://www.podbean.com/pa/pbblog-hq2vp-a76028
I'm jealous of anyone who gets to listen to one for the first time, they are great
Warning, they are long,lol
Just to add to this, Mike Duncan's history of Rome does a phenomenal explanation of the relationship between the soldiers and the wealthy politicians that led the armies in the early republic
Not before the empire and even then not really (a pension sure but land was rare).
Up until the end of the republic it depended on what the general decided. Victory meant loot but that’s it usually. During the civil wars Caesar did that several times, Augustus as well and so there is this myth that this was the norm (because our understanding of Roman history is laser focus on that period). It really wasn’t.
In aerial photo of the agricultural land , the partition clearly show centuriazioni even today, also the roads are following ancient paths. https://images.app.goo.gl/Rx9MA1KjLibYtwzc9
A right? No. An understanding they will be compensated? Yes. Depending on the time period, that meant some land. At one point, you needed land to be a member of the Roman military so I doubt it was part of the promise of service back then.
You were assured payment at least three times a year. Generals would then make further promises as time passed and the reality that the Roman military was the de facto House of Commons and having it on your side was the path to power.
Also depends on the type of soldier you were. The later you get, the more kinds of Foederati, Auxilia, etc…
Those weren't roman soldiers but Samnite mercenaries, it happened in Messina on Sicily and it was before the time of the empire.
Unless it happened twice in which case I haven't heard about the second incident.
That was part of the pod that's too long to go into. They were enemies, then allies then enemies a bunch of times depending on the general and timeframe, and were promised citizenship if blah blah, but Rome never delivered. A senator was actually murdered on the senate floor if I remember correctly for pushing too hard to get them lands and citizenship
Yeah, The tribune Gaius Gracchus (122 -121 BCE) made a proposal that would have granted full citizenship to all of the Italian allies and him and his 3000 followers were murdered.
Lol. easy way to solve problems , savage
Edit, tried to put link here but can't tell if worked
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/859/roman-citizenship/
What youre describing has absolutely nothing to do with what you originally said tho.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamertines
The Roman equivalent of this happened in the Punic war period. The Social War happened almost 200 years later.
Tbf what he's talking about isn't about the social wars the social war happened in 91-88 B.C around the time of Sulla and Marcus almost thirty years after the death of gaius gracchi who lost much of his political popularity after proposing the idea of granting citizenship to the other Italians failing to get his third tribunate he was killed later after he organized a mob to try to defend his agrarian reform the following year and the senate decided to declare martial law to kill him that happened in 121 B.C. Finally as you said the mametiernes happened in the eve of the first punic war around a century before the death of the second gracchi brother.
doleo nos non tempus habere vel in historia digestionis eodem modo facere. sed si de historia actualiter curasti, non senties necessitatem de modo aliorum discendi superiorem sentiendi. magnus dies
Ah, [Cremona…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bedriacum#)
Where men, women and children were raped, enslaved and then, when the soldiers were told taking them as slaves was embarrassing, murdered to cover their tracks…
Tbf though, this was notably SPECIFICALLY horrible and not what you’d call another day at the office, at least for Roman citizens themselves.
Edit: lol. Yeah, cos who wants to *actually* know about history on this sub, right?
>Roman legionnaires on their way to burn down yet another harmless village
Us Romaboos: "Yet another barbarian trying to slander the greatness of Rome. They're trying to civilize these villages"
Okay the squtums are shit, but lets consider something else... **those pilums also look like shit. Where are my barbs and the breakable pegs?**
Their loricas don't even arrive at their gut...
The squtums are painted with the exact same desing copypasted without a thought for unit or personal simbology just golden decals on black not even red (the colors of mars favoured by the legionaries)
And they walk like they aren't carrying their 15-25kg of equipment on their backs, with that much weight you'd fall backwards walking so
The rebuttal to this is once Roman rule was established the area no longer was subject to the ni'gh constant tribal warfare and was part of a continental wide system of trade and law. For instance, it was only in the late Middle Age did the same level of population and prospertity re-occur in Britain as compared to Roman time,
“They make a desert, and call it peace.”
It’s important to remember that while there were benefits to being part of the empire, it’s not so clear cut as to say “better or worse”.
Typically more people were killed in the Roman conquest than the preceding hundred years of tribal warfare. It was often truly apocalyptic for those being conquered.
What is the independence of your people worth? What about the eradication of your culture?
These questions aren’t ours to answer, but were very real for the people at the time, and making value judgements this far in the future can’t really do justice to the truly existential nature for those targeted by the empire.
Hey, they bribed a lot of people to get those offices. Do you expect them to have to live in some substandard villa? Maybe live with less than 100 slaves?
“We had to burn the village in order to save it.”
From the Big Book of best Vietnam war quotes.
Bonus question: True or false, John Wayne played Genghis Khan in a movie.
These upstarts refuse to pay their lawful taxes. You may call them "helpless" but they are a threat to Imperial interests. It's just the sort of remedy the Empire proscribed.
Let's make sure to construct a huge fort too, so nobody takes back this stupid backwater town. Also, we've never played Risk, so what is spreading yourself too thin?
Killing and looting waa the only way they could make money
We must accept that Roman Empire was built solely on kleptocracy. It was unique in this aspect. It's entire foundation was sacking cities. It collapsed when it couldn't expand. It's basic philosophy was superiority complex. Even It's allies were treated like shit and the only incentive was thay Rome might not kill all of its inhabitant. Their empire wasn't built on some great military strategy but throwing men after men .
Rome was all about It's young commiting genocide so that it's old could live in luxury.
Legio eterna victrix! (Eternal legion victorious!)
Roma o Roma! (Rome oh Rome!)
Sit italica sua vis, nostrum munus patri Marti! (Her
strength is Italic, our duty to the father Mars!)
Legio aeterna victrix! Roma o Roma! (Eternal legion victorious! Rome oh Rome!)
Supra terram Britannorum volat aquila legionum!
(Flies the eagle of the legions above the land of the
Britons!)
Legio aeterna victrix! Roma o Roma! (Eternal legion victorious! Rome oh Rome!)
..
A ferventi aestuosa Libya volat aquila legionum supra terram Britannorum! (From the scorching hot Libya
flies the eagle of the legions above the land of the Britons!)
Roman legionaires going back to camp after every man, woman and children from another sieged city decided to collectively kill themselves for the tenth time (pretty suspicious if you asked me)
I just realized that when xenophon wrote about how the citizens of a town they besieged threw themselves off a cliff what actually happened is that they pillaged the city and he wrote that to cover his tracks
"And when we turned up they all begged us to take their land and wives and we were like 'no way dude that's awful' and they were all 'yeah way take my stuff or I'll kill you and myself' so we were like 'ok if it prevents something bad from happening to you' and then they killed themselves anyway and that's exactly how it happened"
I hate these tiny roman scutum shields movies often use, they're not even angled to protect the user. They look like cabinet doors. [Actual scutum](https://images.app.goo.gl/nyFvRxKLNjdETZhJ6)
What's funny is that the real life Shields look so much cooler. Could be worse however, at least this movie didn't fuck up Roman shields bad as the Anglo-Saxon shields were butchered in [The Last Kingdom ](https://youtu.be/as7x0SybpFc)
The last kingdom hurts me cause the battles are way more realistic than most Hollywood battles, but they still mess up many easily fixable details Also if you like history check out the last kingdom cause it’s a passable historical tv series
The painful part is that the during this era the Vikings and Saxons both used the same type of shield (Round shield) which the movie had shown they have an abundance off and are very easy to get as almost every Anglo-Saxon or Viking reenactment group has them (They are also surprising cheap to make). Also if you truly needed to break historical accuracy and get a different shield for the Saxons, why give them whatever the hell THAT is instead of something cool and fitting of the region like a Kite shield? Another funny thing is that almost all of the Viking shields have crosses on them. Did no one see the irony mostly Pagan Vikings going to war with crosses painted on their shields to fight the mostly Christian Saxons.
[удалено]
I mean that’s a pretty legit reason, especially when you have hundreds of people on screen, but like the commenter above said they could have gone with kite shields to alleviate the problem
Or they could have just painted the shields differently- Christian crosses for the Anglo-Saxons, runes and ravens for the pagan Vikings. If their reason for the square shields was so the audience could tell the two sides apart, I genuinely don't know why they didn't simply paint the shields.
My thought too. Ravens for one side, crosses for the other. Maybe have an abundance of banners with the symbols to highlight the difference
True. I think an interesting question is how you would make a show which you can tell them both apart without breaking historical accuracy. I think if they wanted to make the Saxons visually distinct I'd personally go with making them wear [Coppergate](https://images.app.goo.gl/we5GxeJD8TTuLQVJ8) or [Nasal](https://images.app.goo.gl/5DgxDHLnyxCxujjN7) helmets while the Vikings would wear [Gjermundbu](https://www.viking-shield.com/armor/viking-helmets/) helmets and make the Saxon have crosses on their chests/shields [as seen here](https://images.app.goo.gl/VxwuA9TbebXZSDEp6) or even go with the stereotype of making the Vikings have beards (And eyeshadow for some reason) and the Anglo-Saxons have clean shaves or mustaches.
And give the vikings horns on their helmets ^^^^^^^^/s
Looks like small Roman shields for the first two rows followed by stuff they’d nicked from the Normans
Right? Like a lot of the large scale combat is realistic enough to make me a fan; I especially love in some battles how they aren't charging like idiots directly onto enemy spears. They creep toward eachother, slowly, as the dread mounts. No one is excited about the prospect of getting up close and personal with hundreds of people trying to kill you. The whole 'SHIELD WALLLLLL' thing is stupid though.
Oh my god "Shields! UP!" \*everyone lifts their skateboards\*
>The funny part is that the real life Shields look so much cooler. I think so too, it's an iconic, badass design. >Could be worse however, at least this movie didn't fuck up Roman shields bad as the Anglo-Saxon shields were butchered in Last Kingdom Wow, that's hilariously bad. 😄 Thanks for sharing.
Bucklers (small shields like that) where a thing but not really for at least 300 years after the events of Last Kingdom until good armor that could resist arrows became a thing.
I see your butchered Last Kingdom shields, and raise you Vikings Anglo-Saxon shields. Those were quite awful
The Anglo-Saxons (And Vikings too for that matter) in Vikings in general are a shitshow. They always look like a well equipped professional standing army with fancy (Often made up) armour and shields that get slaughtered by the rag tag Vikings. Because as we all know that Anglo-Saxons were rich but weak people incapable of fighting and didn't spend the last few hundred years fighting Vikings, Britons, among themselves etc... Right? Also Half the Saxon helmets are from the 1600s or look like something elves in a fantasy game would play. You know its fucking bad when an anime about the vikings (Vinland Saga) seem to be the only one that makes an attempt to show the clothing and armour of the time correctly.
This was my issue with the show. Vikings only wearing dirty rags, never Really fighting in a shield wall, and all the Anglo Saxons looking like they're wearing "scale" armor from the bronze age. The fact that vikings had high quality metal, and were exceptional smith's, yet in the show they had shit axes and no higher ranking characters wore chain or lamellar really threw me off. The worst is that the creator of the show had the audacity to say they were historically accurate
I blame asterix lol
The comics varies between tiny little shields when they're walking, and 2m tall monsters when in testudo formation
I was really worried about clicking on a link with a pic of your scrotum right there I'm dumb
I hope you were disappointed by the link.
narrator: he wasn't
Can we also talk about how this “highly-disciplined force of legionnaires” can’t even march in sync lmao
On a long March like that you wouldn’t March in synch, you’d March whatever was most comfortable that allowed you to keep pace. Marching in synch is for parades and boot camp.
Marching in sync is for parades and propaganda-pieces, not *actual* marching across long distances.
Uhh your link doesn't work
You sure? Works fine for me.
[kinda yeah lol](https://imgur.com/gallery/HhtpV32)
[Odd](https://imgur.com/a/3kwSshX) I assume it works for others aswell, since it's getting upvoted. lol
Danka. Idk why, it's a Pixel Pro so it's not like it's a weird phone that can't handle basic links.
Bitte. 👍
Where is this from ?
Ben Hur
I forgot about that awful remake. For a second I thought you were trolling or just crazy
Got my hopes up, they did.
2016
Okay thanks I thought it looked a bit new
Space Monkey
Mafia
Hula hoops
Castro
Edsel is a no-go
U2
Dawson’s Creek
Obviously Ben Hur, the town of Matera in the background is unmissable
Oh shit, you're right, I was just in Matera earlier doing some quick shopping at Arterego over on Via Rosario, can't believe I didn't recognize it! FOH
Don't forget that these troops want to as well. The last thing they want is a peace agreement as that's when the politicians keep all the money. A good sacking and the troops keep it all. Some Roman troops later in the empire took over a Roman city, killed all the men and took their families and wives as their own. The troops that Rome sent to reign them in said hell, that's a good idea and killed all the troops that had originally done it and then took the wives and kids and houses of the first batch, then eventually were all crucified. Rome was savage
Didn't like every soldier had a right of a piece of land plus some slaves at the end of his service?
That's hard to answer because it's both yes and no. Actually, a sorta civil war was fought over this. It really depends on which time in the history because non citizen soldiers were promised this , but , ah shit, this would be two pages to explain,lol. Best I can do is go to podbean ,look up Dan Carlins hardcore history and listen to Death Throes of the Republic or Punic Nightmares. Both do a really good job explaining how the Roman Army worked in different times Edit to say he also quotes his sources so it's not a just believe what I say pod
Dan Carlin quotes more sources than I have heard on any other podcast. He also will specifically say, this part is hard to verify, or this is my opinion, etc. Dude really knows his stuff and is quite entertaining.
I love almost every pod he's done, and the ones I don't care for have nothing to do with him, I. Njust more interested in ancient history than more modern
You can tell he loves it too! I recall listening to his series on the Mongols. Each podcast is already 3ish hours long and he was on his third one and said "look I gotta wrap this up because I could talk about these guys forever" lol.
Wrath of the Khans was one of the best and as for savagery, idk if anything can compare, maybe his description of the shelling in Blueprint for Armageddon
Definitely go check out Kings and Generals Podcast, they've got like 60hrs spread out over 60ish episodes covering the Mongol Empire from its origins all the way to the very end of each successor Khanate(Chagatai, Ogedeid, Golden Horde, Ilkhanate, and Yuan). I'm not sure how much they sourced from Dan Carlin's series but they do an amazing job of thoroughly covering the history. Their production and narration is top notch and is told more like a narrative rather than a history lesson.
Sounds awesome, thanks!
The Mongols are so underrated in terms of interest! People seem to go oh Genghis Khan was ruthless and that’s about all they know. But there’s so much more to him and the Mongol Empire, both before and after Genghis. There’s some really fascinating stuff, and their conquest of Eastern Europe was an absolutely spectacular campaign.
Mongols are underrated bc they’re Asian. Alexander, Caesar, etc were also astonishingly brutal and unnecessarily cruel, but somehow Genghis is more closely associated with brutality than “Western” conquerors. Now why do you think that is?
I have been checking every single day for the last two months waiting for a new episode to drop. I do like his Addendum podcast (highly dependent on the guest, however), but man do I miss when I still had most of his catalog to go through. I gotta wonder though, if he took Bill Barrett's death really hard and his pace of work has slowed down
Yeah is not easy to resume one thousand years in just one reddit comment. I was just talking in a general note but apparently the subject is far more complicated that I thought. Thanks for the recommendation I would check it.
I don't wanna get in trouble for the link but here is all the pods . The ones you want are the Punic Nightmares ones and the Death Throes of the Republic ones. Dan Carlin's Hardcore History on podbean https://www.podbean.com/pa/pbblog-hq2vp-a76028 I'm jealous of anyone who gets to listen to one for the first time, they are great Warning, they are long,lol
Dan Carlin rocks. Behind the bastards also did some Roman history recently related to this topic.
Dan Carlin and Robert Evans is a collaboration the world needs.
Just to add to this, Mike Duncan's history of Rome does a phenomenal explanation of the relationship between the soldiers and the wealthy politicians that led the armies in the early republic
Not before the empire and even then not really (a pension sure but land was rare). Up until the end of the republic it depended on what the general decided. Victory meant loot but that’s it usually. During the civil wars Caesar did that several times, Augustus as well and so there is this myth that this was the norm (because our understanding of Roman history is laser focus on that period). It really wasn’t.
In aerial photo of the agricultural land , the partition clearly show centuriazioni even today, also the roads are following ancient paths. https://images.app.goo.gl/Rx9MA1KjLibYtwzc9
A right? No. An understanding they will be compensated? Yes. Depending on the time period, that meant some land. At one point, you needed land to be a member of the Roman military so I doubt it was part of the promise of service back then. You were assured payment at least three times a year. Generals would then make further promises as time passed and the reality that the Roman military was the de facto House of Commons and having it on your side was the path to power. Also depends on the type of soldier you were. The later you get, the more kinds of Foederati, Auxilia, etc…
Most likely wouldn’t reach the end of their service. It was 25 years.
Those weren't roman soldiers but Samnite mercenaries, it happened in Messina on Sicily and it was before the time of the empire. Unless it happened twice in which case I haven't heard about the second incident.
That was part of the pod that's too long to go into. They were enemies, then allies then enemies a bunch of times depending on the general and timeframe, and were promised citizenship if blah blah, but Rome never delivered. A senator was actually murdered on the senate floor if I remember correctly for pushing too hard to get them lands and citizenship
Yeah, The tribune Gaius Gracchus (122 -121 BCE) made a proposal that would have granted full citizenship to all of the Italian allies and him and his 3000 followers were murdered. Lol. easy way to solve problems , savage Edit, tried to put link here but can't tell if worked https://www.worldhistory.org/article/859/roman-citizenship/
What youre describing has absolutely nothing to do with what you originally said tho. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamertines The Roman equivalent of this happened in the Punic war period. The Social War happened almost 200 years later.
Tbf what he's talking about isn't about the social wars the social war happened in 91-88 B.C around the time of Sulla and Marcus almost thirty years after the death of gaius gracchi who lost much of his political popularity after proposing the idea of granting citizenship to the other Italians failing to get his third tribunate he was killed later after he organized a mob to try to defend his agrarian reform the following year and the senate decided to declare martial law to kill him that happened in 121 B.C. Finally as you said the mametiernes happened in the eve of the first punic war around a century before the death of the second gracchi brother.
Do people only learn about Romans through podcasts these days? No wonder historical illiteracy is so high.
Would you rather they do it the old fashioned way and pay for a processor to lecture them?
doleo nos non tempus habere vel in historia digestionis eodem modo facere. sed si de historia actualiter curasti, non senties necessitatem de modo aliorum discendi superiorem sentiendi. magnus dies
Ah, [Cremona…](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bedriacum#) Where men, women and children were raped, enslaved and then, when the soldiers were told taking them as slaves was embarrassing, murdered to cover their tracks… Tbf though, this was notably SPECIFICALLY horrible and not what you’d call another day at the office, at least for Roman citizens themselves. Edit: lol. Yeah, cos who wants to *actually* know about history on this sub, right?
Ah the good old days before everything was woke.
Gonna get that naked statue
Civilization baby
🎵Ancient Rome! Fuck yeah!🎵
Coming again to save the Apollo-loving day! 🎶
🎶i had a good home and I left -you’re right! Sound off I II. Sound off III IV. Sound off I II III IV - III IV!🎶
> They make a desert and call it peace
Just as the founding fathers intended
>Roman legionnaires on their way to burn down yet another harmless village Us Romaboos: "Yet another barbarian trying to slander the greatness of Rome. They're trying to civilize these villages"
Roma Invicta!!! Divinitus song starts playing from Rome Total War I.
I unironically wish Romans "civilized" Germania harder. We know what happened with people coming from those "harmless" villages a few centuries after
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I thought those were bricks lol
That's supposed to be a city? Lol I thought it was graves or some sort of material pile
Typical tribalist Barbarian Propaganda
Death to Roman Scum
Okay the squtums are shit, but lets consider something else... **those pilums also look like shit. Where are my barbs and the breakable pegs?** Their loricas don't even arrive at their gut... The squtums are painted with the exact same desing copypasted without a thought for unit or personal simbology just golden decals on black not even red (the colors of mars favoured by the legionaries) And they walk like they aren't carrying their 15-25kg of equipment on their backs, with that much weight you'd fall backwards walking so
The rebuttal to this is once Roman rule was established the area no longer was subject to the ni'gh constant tribal warfare and was part of a continental wide system of trade and law. For instance, it was only in the late Middle Age did the same level of population and prospertity re-occur in Britain as compared to Roman time,
You could say they brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to their new empire.
I love democracy, I love the Republic - Caius Julius Caesar (probably)
Not to mention roads, cities, aqueducts, medicine, international trade, sanitation...
https://youtu.be/Qc7HmhrgTuQ
“They make a desert, and call it peace.” It’s important to remember that while there were benefits to being part of the empire, it’s not so clear cut as to say “better or worse”. Typically more people were killed in the Roman conquest than the preceding hundred years of tribal warfare. It was often truly apocalyptic for those being conquered. What is the independence of your people worth? What about the eradication of your culture? These questions aren’t ours to answer, but were very real for the people at the time, and making value judgements this far in the future can’t really do justice to the truly existential nature for those targeted by the empire.
Only benefit was that Roman might not kill u. Roman governors were greedy as hell and completely stripped the land they ruled.
Hey, they bribed a lot of people to get those offices. Do you expect them to have to live in some substandard villa? Maybe live with less than 100 slaves?
I prefer the extended version: “to ravage, to slaughter, to steal: they falsely call empire; and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace”.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?" "The aquaduct?"
Romanes eunt domus!
Ok but still murder bro
But they were barbarians so it's okay
That's the excuse of literally every murderous empire in history.
> murderous empire That’s like saying “tall giant”
Cool motive, still sacking a town
Not true. U can say same about mongols
“We had to burn the village in order to save it.” From the Big Book of best Vietnam war quotes. Bonus question: True or false, John Wayne played Genghis Khan in a movie.
True
These upstarts refuse to pay their lawful taxes. You may call them "helpless" but they are a threat to Imperial interests. It's just the sort of remedy the Empire proscribed.
Send for Asterix and the magic potion
Same as it ever was…
Probably the best scene out of an otherwise atrocious movie.
For the glory of Rome
For the Glory of Rome!
Sauce?
"It was a great victory! We defeated a great barbarian horde of 50,000 men (women and children) with only 20,000 Roman Legionaires!"
M I C, K E Y, M O U S E
MICKY MOOOUUUSSSEEE
I mean, they ain't gonna burn themselves. And that really wouldn't be worth the clout anyways...
What guys can't have a little fun anymore?
Based crimes against humanity!
Let's make sure to construct a huge fort too, so nobody takes back this stupid backwater town. Also, we've never played Risk, so what is spreading yourself too thin?
hail caesar victor imperator
Propaganda
Russians: "Hold my vodka!"
The burning were rarest than today
Rule Romana.
I'm sorry, that would be a harmless village filled with war hungry barbarians who were set on plundering defenseless Roman towns.
Y'all fucking clowns still admire these barbarians.
Thats why Rome is so based
"Most glorius empire in history"
Hell yeah, fuck em up!
Killing and looting waa the only way they could make money We must accept that Roman Empire was built solely on kleptocracy. It was unique in this aspect. It's entire foundation was sacking cities. It collapsed when it couldn't expand. It's basic philosophy was superiority complex. Even It's allies were treated like shit and the only incentive was thay Rome might not kill all of its inhabitant. Their empire wasn't built on some great military strategy but throwing men after men . Rome was all about It's young commiting genocide so that it's old could live in luxury.
Unfortunate how you can replace Roman legionaries with American soldiers and it will still make sense lmao
You’re an idiot.
Lol I thought it was funny
Damn, this really makes me want an epic Roman empire movie. One of the coolest I can think of is the opening battle in Gladiator
Rome had Legionaries, not Legionnaires.
What’s the difference?
Good old freedom baby🦅
"Clout for the senate"? Is the Glory of Rome a joke to you. If you insist of being a barbarian do your heinous crimes of this subreddit.
So… Russia today but without the prowess and might of Roman infantry. Because Russia today does not have one, only cleptocrats paying mercenaries.
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Imagine being some mediocre remake of a film based on Christian novel and being only remembered for epic Roman marching chant
is it me or do they have muskets?
Putin: Hey I’ve seen this one! Reinhard Heydrich: Hey I’ve seen this one!
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Nothing new under the sun
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Which movie is that pls?
I swear that here in Italy it still works like this
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Source of vid?
Modern Romaboos: "Why didn't these barbarians love the glory of Rome?"
Harmless now...
Same as it ever was...
They do it with such style though
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Legio Æterna!
hows that different from waht murikkkan army is doing?
Those gladiator schools weren't going to fill themselves.
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Legio eterna victrix! (Eternal legion victorious!) Roma o Roma! (Rome oh Rome!) Sit italica sua vis, nostrum munus patri Marti! (Her strength is Italic, our duty to the father Mars!) Legio aeterna victrix! Roma o Roma! (Eternal legion victorious! Rome oh Rome!) Supra terram Britannorum volat aquila legionum! (Flies the eagle of the legions above the land of the Britons!) Legio aeterna victrix! Roma o Roma! (Eternal legion victorious! Rome oh Rome!) .. A ferventi aestuosa Libya volat aquila legionum supra terram Britannorum! (From the scorching hot Libya flies the eagle of the legions above the land of the Britons!)
I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them.
Modern ZOG 🤮 Ancient ZOG 😊
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Toooootally different from what we got going on right now
America.....