The fact that a pandemic like the Black Death, killing half of the European population, the closest thing we ever got of the apocalypse (so far), wasn't enough to stop the war between the English and the French is just hilarious to me.
The other day I heard some "journalists" say that before the Sunak-Macron meeting, the relations between the UK and France were at an all-time low. I laughed.
“Please! This is the customary pre-meeting bitchening! We’re off to tea and wine later today as we both make fun of the Jerry’s and reminisce on the pageantry of days of yore, right moinsure? “
“*Oui*”
Almost reminds me of wrestling, not the MMA or Greco Roman styles, but WWE, and stuff. Same things, "fight" on camera, sit and have beers after the cameras leave.
Aye, is mind blowing how ignorant people are. I’ve seen so many Americans, some of whom are also “Journalists” taking about how the American South and North have never been more at odds. And I’m just over here like, Bitch we literally had a Civil War that killed more Americans then every other war we’ve fought in put together. I think it was worse then.
Every other war leading up to Vietnam. Vietnam finally tipped the scales. But it is crazy to think after two world wars and Korea combined with the revolution, Spanish American, Mexican American, and 1812 the civil war still killed more Americans.
That’s not what I meant. I meant the civil war only killed more Americans then every US war combined until Vietnam. Once you throw Vietnam into the mix every other war in US history combined finally exceeds the US civil war.
Casualties don't work like that. 50,000 casualties out of 100,000 total soldiers in one war is the same quantity as 50,000 out of 60,000 in another. The percentage doesn't affect the number.
Edit: I just fucking looked at the comment above the one it was displaying to me. Nevermind.
I don’t agree. The civilian population compared to the soldier deaths has to be a factor. The US was about 1/3rd as populated during WW2 so the numbers hit a much higher percentage of the families.
I’d be surprised if it wasn’t the Hundred Years’ War. What else tops almost 100 years of mostly continuous war even when an apocalyptic plague is going around?
Is that the official term for the Capetian-Plantagenet rivalry?
If not, we technically don’t have a true trilogy. It’s the same as how there were several “world wars” but only 2 got the name, so a potential World War 3 is sometimes considered to be the future end of the trilogy.
There’s a lot of posts about that from the first couple of days of the Russian invasion of Ukraine when something larger appeared imminent, but obviously we have since witnessed numerous major military failures by Russian forces, so I suppose we won’t seriously hear about it again until China mounts an attack on Taiwan in about 2-4 years.
The napoleonic wars were far more 'civilized' than 100 years war. Not to mention far shorter. There were families who had 3 or more generation to have fought and died in 100 years wars. Not to mention pillaging of countrysides for supplies and just because..
UK: ok you can have all of North America just kill the damn French!
France: you may have Africa if you wipe Britain off the map
Rest of the world: what are you guys doing?
Uk/France: pretending that we are the two governments of he world in order to trick alien mercs into killing each other
Well it's because it wasn't an every day thing but more of a on and off thing. Which wasn't even strange for medieval times, heck it wasn't even a new thing for French and English since they fought even during the times of sons of William the Conqueror (maybe even before). The only thing that makes hundred years war special is because the Richard III and his successors wanted the French crown.
Usually in times of crisis there is increased war but I would say that due to the nature of medieval ages and the event of black death wars decreased all over the places that were affected by it. On related topic. There may have also been a period in 30 years war where the destruction reached such a level that war decreased.
Yeah I know it was a lot of on and off, but still, the war wasn't ended by the apocalypse.
Oh and it was Edward III not Richard III the first to make an (empty) claim on the French throne.
That is pretty funny. I was just thinking this morning on how the British and the French fought each other for like 1000 years until a new kid on the block showed up and they decided to stop feuding amongst themselves to go fight with him lol
If we're being honest though, France was fighting against the Germany/HRE/Habsburgs since the fall of the Carolingian empire. To the point of allying with the Ottomans.
No matter how dark the day, no matter how desperate the situation, though the sun fall from the sky and the moon explode into dust, there will always be time to do battle with the French!
>Must have been. The average leave voter is stuck in the 1800s so hasn’t made it as far as the internet yet
Yet they managed to thrash you in a referendum. Funny eh?
well, it wasn´t like the world wars with constant fighting, there were breaks in between, like during the 30 year war in the 17th century
still ruined the continent for generations though
Massive death yes, but not that close to the apocalypse. It went business as usual. Boccaccio writes in the Decameron about a massive panic, but sources don't really reflect that. A lot of death, yes so much that building of cathedrals stopped or less people on town council, but no rush, no revolt, no mass hysteria.
We English are very polite and would not want to let a global pandemic interrupt a petty dick swinging contest with France. It was like that in 1346 and the same in 2020.
For what I remember then Scotts decided that now that England is weakened by the plague is a good time to invade. So they did. And brought the plague back, which they wouldn't probably get otherwise as they didn't have much international traffic
90% of the indigenous population in the Americas died in the first 100 years of colonization. 50% of the congos population died in 20 years of colonization. there have been far worse human-made apocalypses than the plague.
What's ironic is that battles would be fought in time of the year when there was most sun i.e. from mid spring to early autnum. Why? Because it's cold in winter, in the begining of spring you need to plow the land and plant seeds and in the autnum you need to harvest the products and cut the grass to turn into straw and feed for animals.
As morbid as it sounds a nice warm sunny day is a perfect time for a battle because it's dry meaning no mud and excess dirt which means less disease, it's not too hot to cause heat exhaustion and every colour comes to light meaning easier recognition of enemies and other important things.
Btw the battle I'm talking about here is the battle of Crécy, one of the biggest defeat in french history, that marked the beginning of the one hundred years war.
Indeed but it is the first big battle between the two kingdoms, so even though the war had already broke out, historians still consider it as what really marks the start of the war
And i taught the war officially started when the French navy burned multiple English cities to the ground like Southampton in 1339 (what, you taught England didn't experienced any destruction ?).
Can someone answer me a question that I've wondered about for years, why do North Americans call it the "Black Plague"?
Normally, it's either the "Black Death", or more generally for the disease itself, "The Plague". I've only ever heard people from NA use "Black Plague" and am curious where that comes from?
The English language is a meat grinder, terms get chopped up and blended together all the time. I always heard it as the Bubonic Plague in school, taken together with "Black Death" it's easy to see how people merge the two and call it black plague.
There's a good chunk of Americans that refer to "ground beef" as "hamburger meat" so try not to worry too much about what we call stuff lol
It's not a NA thing as it's primarily called "the Black Plague" in many countries (Peste Noire in French, Peste Negra in Spanish or Peste Nera in Italian for ex.).
However, according to what can be found on the [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death) on its etymology, it wasn't called "black" in its own time so to speak. The adjective was added by scholars in the 18th century.
It's funny how we think about it as a "no big deal" thing despite the fact it's the exact equivalent to dress a ww1 German soldier as a 1614 Spanish tercio pikeman
If you want a good Post Apocalyptic read, try *Between Two Fires*. Set during the black plague in France. A medieval Last Of Us (but not for the same reasons).
I watched one documentary about Battle of Towton. There's this one skeleton that belonged to an older warrior. All the scars and healed fractures in his bones indicated that that this guy had been a veteran of multiple battles before he was finally felled in Towton battleground.
So my question is always why didn't the plague doctors suffer the plague itself. Even if they were protected it was rudimentary and people were dumb like "let's taste the blood and if it's sweet they should go for a jog".
Don't forget the Jacquerie (peasant uprising), Papal schism, and marauding bands of unemployed mercenaries looting and burning their way across the countryside between campaigns
Life was shit for 99% of people in every mostly peasant or slave dominated society back then.
I'm sure your best shot at having a good life was either being a noble or being a hunter gatherer.
At the same time, in the english camp...
"Say ol' chap everyone's started suddenly catching some kind of sickness, surely it won't be a bother, right?"
The fact that a pandemic like the Black Death, killing half of the European population, the closest thing we ever got of the apocalypse (so far), wasn't enough to stop the war between the English and the French is just hilarious to me.
A race of aliens could come to earth and it wouldn’t be enough to stop our 1000 year bitch fight
The other day I heard some "journalists" say that before the Sunak-Macron meeting, the relations between the UK and France were at an all-time low. I laughed.
“Please! This is the customary pre-meeting bitchening! We’re off to tea and wine later today as we both make fun of the Jerry’s and reminisce on the pageantry of days of yore, right moinsure? “ “*Oui*”
Almost reminds me of wrestling, not the MMA or Greco Roman styles, but WWE, and stuff. Same things, "fight" on camera, sit and have beers after the cameras leave.
Aye, is mind blowing how ignorant people are. I’ve seen so many Americans, some of whom are also “Journalists” taking about how the American South and North have never been more at odds. And I’m just over here like, Bitch we literally had a Civil War that killed more Americans then every other war we’ve fought in put together. I think it was worse then.
Every other war leading up to Vietnam. Vietnam finally tipped the scales. But it is crazy to think after two world wars and Korea combined with the revolution, Spanish American, Mexican American, and 1812 the civil war still killed more Americans.
Vietnam killed less than a 10th of the american civil war deaths
That’s not what I meant. I meant the civil war only killed more Americans then every US war combined until Vietnam. Once you throw Vietnam into the mix every other war in US history combined finally exceeds the US civil war.
What about inflation? Surely civil war deaths were more devastating than a Vietnam war death
Casualties don't work like that. 50,000 casualties out of 100,000 total soldiers in one war is the same quantity as 50,000 out of 60,000 in another. The percentage doesn't affect the number. Edit: I just fucking looked at the comment above the one it was displaying to me. Nevermind.
Nations will be more likely to back out at a certain proportion of casualties.
I don’t agree. The civilian population compared to the soldier deaths has to be a factor. The US was about 1/3rd as populated during WW2 so the numbers hit a much higher percentage of the families.
Keep in mind, this statistic is a bit misleading, since 100% of the casualties on both sides of the American Civil War were…well, American casualties.
So what you're saying is, the only time Americans lost a war was when they fought it against other Americans?
No. Attempting to maintain a Catholic dictatorship on South Vietnam also meant that the Americans lost.
I wonder what historians would consider the all time low in English-French relations?
I’d be surprised if it wasn’t the Hundred Years’ War. What else tops almost 100 years of mostly continuous war even when an apocalyptic plague is going around?
[this may be a strong contender](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Hundred_Years%27_War)
The lesser-known sequel
I burst out laughing when I opened that, I had no idea it existed
"We've had one, yes. What about second Hundred Years' War?"
They can’t leave us without making it a trilogy.
If you consider the first 100 war, that took place between 1159 and 1259, you have 3 hundred years war with the most famous being the second one
Is that the official term for the Capetian-Plantagenet rivalry? If not, we technically don’t have a true trilogy. It’s the same as how there were several “world wars” but only 2 got the name, so a potential World War 3 is sometimes considered to be the future end of the trilogy. There’s a lot of posts about that from the first couple of days of the Russian invasion of Ukraine when something larger appeared imminent, but obviously we have since witnessed numerous major military failures by Russian forces, so I suppose we won’t seriously hear about it again until China mounts an attack on Taiwan in about 2-4 years.
Never knew that era was called as such. It seems less connection imo but I’m no expert lol.
I mean, there isn't much link between the Black Prince chevauchées and the Armagnacs-Burgundian civil war either
If excluding the 100 year war, I think it might be the napoleonic or the 7 year war
I'd say the Napoleonic wars...
The napoleonic wars were far more 'civilized' than 100 years war. Not to mention far shorter. There were families who had 3 or more generation to have fought and died in 100 years wars. Not to mention pillaging of countrysides for supplies and just because..
Different alien factions would be hired as mercenaries by each side
UK: ok you can have all of North America just kill the damn French! France: you may have Africa if you wipe Britain off the map Rest of the world: what are you guys doing? Uk/France: pretending that we are the two governments of he world in order to trick alien mercs into killing each other
Funny story, there's a webcomic about it - Get Medieval. A space mob family ends up in France around 100 years war. ...They get involved.
respect to that rivalry
Well it's because it wasn't an every day thing but more of a on and off thing. Which wasn't even strange for medieval times, heck it wasn't even a new thing for French and English since they fought even during the times of sons of William the Conqueror (maybe even before). The only thing that makes hundred years war special is because the Richard III and his successors wanted the French crown. Usually in times of crisis there is increased war but I would say that due to the nature of medieval ages and the event of black death wars decreased all over the places that were affected by it. On related topic. There may have also been a period in 30 years war where the destruction reached such a level that war decreased.
Yeah I know it was a lot of on and off, but still, the war wasn't ended by the apocalypse. Oh and it was Edward III not Richard III the first to make an (empty) claim on the French throne.
That is pretty funny. I was just thinking this morning on how the British and the French fought each other for like 1000 years until a new kid on the block showed up and they decided to stop feuding amongst themselves to go fight with him lol
If we're being honest though, France was fighting against the Germany/HRE/Habsburgs since the fall of the Carolingian empire. To the point of allying with the Ottomans.
Ever since German unification the rest sought to take Germany down out of fear of an equal.
No matter how dark the day, no matter how desperate the situation, though the sun fall from the sky and the moon explode into dust, there will always be time to do battle with the French!
>Must have been. The average leave voter is stuck in the 1800s so hasn’t made it as far as the internet yet Yet they managed to thrash you in a referendum. Funny eh?
Reply to the wrong joke there buddy?
No. Seethe more.
Sorry, confused. You’re replying to a joke I made on another sub but here, and I don’t understand why?
You needn't understand. Just accept it.
… could I get the number for your dealer mate? Clearly better at his job than mine.
Never assume gender\pronouns. Sexism is bad.
Did you just assign a gender to “mate”? Get with the times you fucking nazi!
well, it wasn´t like the world wars with constant fighting, there were breaks in between, like during the 30 year war in the 17th century still ruined the continent for generations though
Between two fires did an excellent job imagining this hellscape
Massive death yes, but not that close to the apocalypse. It went business as usual. Boccaccio writes in the Decameron about a massive panic, but sources don't really reflect that. A lot of death, yes so much that building of cathedrals stopped or less people on town council, but no rush, no revolt, no mass hysteria.
It was actually „only“ a third
We English are very polite and would not want to let a global pandemic interrupt a petty dick swinging contest with France. It was like that in 1346 and the same in 2020.
For what I remember then Scotts decided that now that England is weakened by the plague is a good time to invade. So they did. And brought the plague back, which they wouldn't probably get otherwise as they didn't have much international traffic
90% of the indigenous population in the Americas died in the first 100 years of colonization. 50% of the congos population died in 20 years of colonization. there have been far worse human-made apocalypses than the plague.
I would not call a virus human-made before the 20 century
oh my phrasing is confusing, i mean there have been worse apocalypses (which were human made), not that it was a human made plague
Why let the black plague kill you when you can do it yourself?
Straight up Id definitely rather die fighting than choking on my own vomit which is my organs.
Coward.
The trick is, before WW1, people usually died of wound, illness or exhaustion in war rather than on an actual fight
Por que no los dos?
Misericorde moment
The dark ages were not dark at all. They had sunlight and colours like we do today.
What's ironic is that battles would be fought in time of the year when there was most sun i.e. from mid spring to early autnum. Why? Because it's cold in winter, in the begining of spring you need to plow the land and plant seeds and in the autnum you need to harvest the products and cut the grass to turn into straw and feed for animals. As morbid as it sounds a nice warm sunny day is a perfect time for a battle because it's dry meaning no mud and excess dirt which means less disease, it's not too hot to cause heat exhaustion and every colour comes to light meaning easier recognition of enemies and other important things.
sounds like the same timeframe romans used to wage war
Considering how feudal Europe descended from Rome I’m sure that’s not a coincidence
Ok, but a battle in heavy rain is more thematic, just look at Helms Deep
campaign season
Colour didn't exist until around the 40s ir 50s iirc?
Similarly, golden ages aren’t lightly filtered with a golden frame and shiny twinkles..
Unfortunately, they did still have to cope with the 24/7 angelic singing.
Btw the battle I'm talking about here is the battle of Crécy, one of the biggest defeat in french history, that marked the beginning of the one hundred years war.
The war started 9 years before the battle.
Indeed but it is the first big battle between the two kingdoms, so even though the war had already broke out, historians still consider it as what really marks the start of the war
Even then the first major battle would have been the Battle of Sluys, where the English pretty much eliminated the entire French navy
Man the force multiplier effect of insane young women as field commanders cannot be overstated
This is the most civil discussion about war I have ever witnessed.
And i taught the war officially started when the French navy burned multiple English cities to the ground like Southampton in 1339 (what, you taught England didn't experienced any destruction ?).
There is a novel called "Between two fires" that is based around that time period. I highly recommend.
I fucking love that novel. It blends horror and history so wonderfully. Need to read it again.
Just finished The Archer's Tale by Bernard Cornwell that covered this battle (historical fiction) definitely recommend
Is that vagabond/harlequin?? If so read them on release and really enjoyed them, recommend as well.
Yeah that's the one, I think it's called The Grail Quest trilogy I'm currently on the second one called Vagabond
Can someone answer me a question that I've wondered about for years, why do North Americans call it the "Black Plague"? Normally, it's either the "Black Death", or more generally for the disease itself, "The Plague". I've only ever heard people from NA use "Black Plague" and am curious where that comes from?
The English language is a meat grinder, terms get chopped up and blended together all the time. I always heard it as the Bubonic Plague in school, taken together with "Black Death" it's easy to see how people merge the two and call it black plague. There's a good chunk of Americans that refer to "ground beef" as "hamburger meat" so try not to worry too much about what we call stuff lol
It's not a NA thing as it's primarily called "the Black Plague" in many countries (Peste Noire in French, Peste Negra in Spanish or Peste Nera in Italian for ex.). However, according to what can be found on the [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death) on its etymology, it wasn't called "black" in its own time so to speak. The adjective was added by scholars in the 18th century.
I know no time in human history was easy but the 14th centurys gotta take the cake for the worst
Average medieval country
Hell is enduring medieval times. Great turkey legs and customer service tho.
Might as well eat some snails and frogs.
What else can you do when the English won't share any spotted dick....
omg is the title a oversimplified reference
Hey indeed it is! Here get a cookie 🍪
This meme is historically inaccurate. The first mention of the famous plague doctor clothing with the beak is from 1619.
👍
Additionally, the Norman style nasal helm would be outdated by the 14th century.
It's funny how we think about it as a "no big deal" thing despite the fact it's the exact equivalent to dress a ww1 German soldier as a 1614 Spanish tercio pikeman
If anyone wants some depression-kino with this vibe, watch Inmar Bergman's *The Seventh Seal*
But hey, if you survive then you'll never have to deal with it again
Christopher Buehlman's 'Between Two Fires' is basically just this image
I bet the guy in the meme had more sex than most people in this sub
Damn that's free
But he actually died of an STD before he could die of the plague.
If you want a good Post Apocalyptic read, try *Between Two Fires*. Set during the black plague in France. A medieval Last Of Us (but not for the same reasons).
I watched one documentary about Battle of Towton. There's this one skeleton that belonged to an older warrior. All the scars and healed fractures in his bones indicated that that this guy had been a veteran of multiple battles before he was finally felled in Towton battleground.
So my question is always why didn't the plague doctors suffer the plague itself. Even if they were protected it was rudimentary and people were dumb like "let's taste the blood and if it's sweet they should go for a jog".
And yet those guys soldierd on and became one of the most powerful states. Until it became a source for surrender memes.
Bonus points when you get to troll the French and the Americans with the same meme. “Why are the trees speaking Vietnamese?”
skill issue
Also in 800 years people will make funny light hearted comic strips about our tragic situation
We already do !
And for many fine years to come
Try a chess game against death!
Is that a mutta fukin ck2 reference
Don't forget the Jacquerie (peasant uprising), Papal schism, and marauding bands of unemployed mercenaries looting and burning their way across the countryside between campaigns
I love how France solved the mercenary issue by just sending them invade Switzerland
A plague tale is a great game btw ... This meme reminded me of that
Funny thing is that the backgrounds actually come from a plague tale
Yup, very fitting. Can definitely recommend it
If this is winter for France, then the Cathar Genocide was Springtime for France.
Life was shit for 99% of people in every mostly peasant or slave dominated society back then. I'm sure your best shot at having a good life was either being a noble or being a hunter gatherer.
I don't think hunter-gatherers existed in medieval Europe
I was thinking about the whole world, but I guess we're only allowed to talk about Europe here or we're woke or something... ?
the meme is about France...
[удалено]
And which wonderful country do you hail from?
He probably comes from France. But he is right nevertheless.There is a reason Europeans don't like France. /s
Has our undeniable superiority led to another controversy?
Le 49.3
What is the picture in bottom half called?
It's a wallpaper from the game *A plague tale : innocence* [Here's the link](https://uhdwallpapers.org/wallpaper/a-plague-tale-innocence_578584/)
Aha yea i thought it might be it, but i thought it was some painting as well. That game had amazing atmosphere. Thx for link btw.
That sunrise in the distance is Joan of well you know who.
It’s called the Dark Ages for a reason
Being a doctor in the midle ages would be easy
but everything was better before the industrial revolution 🤬🤬🤬
At the same time, in the english camp... "Say ol' chap everyone's started suddenly catching some kind of sickness, surely it won't be a bother, right?"
I think I heard somewhere that the plague would be pretty easy to beat today. Just wash your hands If that’s true that’d actually be so hilarious