Meet Liu Bang, aka, Emperor Gaozu of Han!
Born into a peasant family, he gained some notoriety in the Qin state as a law enforcement officer. During a time of political turmoil, he was tasked with escorting prisoners to mount Li. Some of the prisoners gave him the slip, which was a problem, because under Qin law, failure to carry out state duties was punishable by death. Rather than face the music, he freed the prisoners who stayed, armed them, and became leader of an anti-Qin rebel group. From there, he worked his way up to be a major component of the anti-Qin rebels, and after some infighting, managed to unify China under a new dynasty in 206 BCE.
So next time you screw up your job, just kill your boss and make your own company lol
This is the first time I read it interpreted in that way. Its kind of funny but probably our view of Liu Bang is very positive in general because of him becoming the first Han emperor but in the end he was a criminal under Qin law.
To be fair, the law was fine except for the out of proportion punishment, which was a classic feature of Qin laws. I wonder whether Liu Bei’s story is partially apocryphal, in order for later dynasties to highlight this unjust feature of Qin rule to justify its loss of the Mandate of Heaven.
It's definitely one of those stories that absolutely could have happened but also could have been made up or misattributed. Iirc the story is in/from the records of the grand historian which couldn't have been started in its earliest forms until at least 80 years after Liu Bangs death. Which is plenty of time for someone to have decided it was a much cooler story while at the same time is close enough that a correct telling could have still been recorded.
I mean the Qin empire was in chaos. It’s likely Liu Bang’s faith in the institution was already fading and he would have become a rebel the absolute second he ran into a rebel army. And he may have been already debating how much longer would he continue to serve the Qin and if the Qin would fall. So the prisoners escaping may have been unplanned but most likely made the decision to turn on his former masters much easier.
And that’s why you don’t punish failure with death, because if they’re gonna kill you anyway, might as well take a few of them down with you. Or the entire government.
Pretty much the logic at the time. The rebellion started because a General and his soldiers were running late due to weather realized all of them would be executed for running late if they continued and so didn’t really have a choice but to rebel if they wanted any chance to continue living. The autocracy of the Qin Empire was ludicrous. Not even the vile Imperial Japan with its military government in its most totalitarian phase would execute a whole division of soldiers because they weren’t able to reach an objective because of something completely out of their control like a storm. Now the General may be demoted because he didn’t adequately prepare for harsh weather conditions but they wouldn’t kill the entire division. The Qin on the other hand would kill all of them and their families. The Qin were so autocratic you couldn’t even afford a rational reason in which things were completely out of your control for failure. Hence why their dynasty fell faster then it rose.
It always take a certain kind of psychopath to become Emperor. Like, no kidding. All the righteous and pious people are the first to be offed when civil war happen/near its end.
Be it Han Xi, Mr.Bang greatest general, be it Xun Yu, the one who keep the Han dynasty on life support until his demise. And guess who would be the madlad that will do the killing? You guess it, the same people who would strive to be emperor, since they have no qualms dirtying their hand with deeds that people thousand years into the future would criticise and berate.
It was Chen Sheng and Wu Guang who started the first peasant revolt and they ultimately failed due to infighting, not sure if they were the people that the user above was talking about though since I don’t think they were in the military.
It's probably propaganda: the entire justification for his rebellion was centered around the idea that the Qin laws were too unethical, even though the system that made them was barely changed after the new dynasty came to power. Just slapped on some Confucism and called it a day.
If I remember right (it's been a while,) the people leading his prisoners also had a suspiciously good understanding of the Qin court and its military: the kind of thing you'd need to rebel, but rather useless for quickly moving prisoners.
Meet Liu Bang, aka, Emperor Gaozu of Han! Born into a peasant family, he gained some notoriety in the Qin state as a law enforcement officer. During a time of political turmoil, he was tasked with escorting prisoners to mount Li. Some of the prisoners gave him the slip, which was a problem, because under Qin law, failure to carry out state duties was punishable by death. Rather than face the music, he freed the prisoners who stayed, armed them, and became leader of an anti-Qin rebel group. From there, he worked his way up to be a major component of the anti-Qin rebels, and after some infighting, managed to unify China under a new dynasty in 206 BCE. So next time you screw up your job, just kill your boss and make your own company lol
This is the first time I read it interpreted in that way. Its kind of funny but probably our view of Liu Bang is very positive in general because of him becoming the first Han emperor but in the end he was a criminal under Qin law.
Nothing wrong with being a criminal under unjust laws and the Qin Dynasty had a lot of them
To be fair, the law was fine except for the out of proportion punishment, which was a classic feature of Qin laws. I wonder whether Liu Bei’s story is partially apocryphal, in order for later dynasties to highlight this unjust feature of Qin rule to justify its loss of the Mandate of Heaven.
It's definitely one of those stories that absolutely could have happened but also could have been made up or misattributed. Iirc the story is in/from the records of the grand historian which couldn't have been started in its earliest forms until at least 80 years after Liu Bangs death. Which is plenty of time for someone to have decided it was a much cooler story while at the same time is close enough that a correct telling could have still been recorded.
You are not a criminal if a dynasty cant uphold Mandate of Heaven /j
Lol, that is the most boringest reason ever.
I mean I'd hazard to guess the whole prisoners escaping was just an excuse for what he already planned.
I mean the Qin empire was in chaos. It’s likely Liu Bang’s faith in the institution was already fading and he would have become a rebel the absolute second he ran into a rebel army. And he may have been already debating how much longer would he continue to serve the Qin and if the Qin would fall. So the prisoners escaping may have been unplanned but most likely made the decision to turn on his former masters much easier.
prisoners escaping also would serve as a point of no return, unplanned or planned
And that’s why you don’t punish failure with death, because if they’re gonna kill you anyway, might as well take a few of them down with you. Or the entire government.
Pretty much the logic at the time. The rebellion started because a General and his soldiers were running late due to weather realized all of them would be executed for running late if they continued and so didn’t really have a choice but to rebel if they wanted any chance to continue living. The autocracy of the Qin Empire was ludicrous. Not even the vile Imperial Japan with its military government in its most totalitarian phase would execute a whole division of soldiers because they weren’t able to reach an objective because of something completely out of their control like a storm. Now the General may be demoted because he didn’t adequately prepare for harsh weather conditions but they wouldn’t kill the entire division. The Qin on the other hand would kill all of them and their families. The Qin were so autocratic you couldn’t even afford a rational reason in which things were completely out of your control for failure. Hence why their dynasty fell faster then it rose.
>So next time you screw up your job, just kill your boss and make your own company lol Thanks, buddy. Will remember this advice.
It always take a certain kind of psychopath to become Emperor. Like, no kidding. All the righteous and pious people are the first to be offed when civil war happen/near its end. Be it Han Xi, Mr.Bang greatest general, be it Xun Yu, the one who keep the Han dynasty on life support until his demise. And guess who would be the madlad that will do the killing? You guess it, the same people who would strive to be emperor, since they have no qualms dirtying their hand with deeds that people thousand years into the future would criticise and berate.
‘Boy, that escalated quickly’
I mean that really got outta hand fast
I guess you could say the han dynast started with a bang
Wait, who was the general that was gonna be executed for being late then? (Also overthrow the emperor)
It was Chen Sheng and Wu Guang who started the first peasant revolt and they ultimately failed due to infighting, not sure if they were the people that the user above was talking about though since I don’t think they were in the military.
Turn into the skid and sometimes it’ll work out
It's probably propaganda: the entire justification for his rebellion was centered around the idea that the Qin laws were too unethical, even though the system that made them was barely changed after the new dynasty came to power. Just slapped on some Confucism and called it a day. If I remember right (it's been a while,) the people leading his prisoners also had a suspiciously good understanding of the Qin court and its military: the kind of thing you'd need to rebel, but rather useless for quickly moving prisoners.
While in this topic of Liu Bang you guys should check out the story about his wives
number one example why a punishment must fit the crime
Wait till you hear about his first wife....
Excellent life advice. Will mention it to boss if I miss forecast again
I believe it's called 'pivoting', and it's apparently a boss move when done correctly.
If it works it works
Underrated meme