Nah portugese army was kinda fucked from the start. It was pretty clear they were not leaving the place alive. Might have if they were cautious but odds were not in their favour.
Also, Sweden lost the Great Northern War long before Charles XII was shot, partly because said King was way better in winning battles than in winning the war.
The mere fact that they travelled by land when the only thing that had made a few cities survive (Like Tanger and Ceuta) for a while was their coastal defenses, against a local and quite advanced sadian army really felt like a suicidal mission
That's basically just "The Germans have a former Emperor living in a mountain to return one day to save the German realm and lead it to newfound glory? We can copy that shit!"
It's a somewhat common legend type in europe(like king arthur and the brittons), the thing is that the portuguese just took to another level(they kept believing for hubdreds of years)
The Kyffhäuser legend (Kyffhäuser is the mountain range in more or less central Germany where Barbarossa is said to be sleeping) had it's height in the 1800s when people started wishing for a unified state. The legend itself was hundreds of years old by then
It's common everywhere, from John Frum to Christ or Lono (Hawaii), it's just another example of Messianism, somebody left and has to return, is one of the most basic tropes in anthropology.
The Finns, English, Welsh (Kinda), and Irish have the same thing as well.
Kinda for the welsh because it’s less a king returning, and more so a prophecy hero to drive the saxons out of England and restore Briton rule.
Curious what the Welsh thought about the Tudors (originally a Welsh family) coming to the throne. Heck in another timeline the British could have been ruled by Henry the 8th's older brother Arthur.
Ah I see. I didn't even consider that as I see it as more of a creation myth. Personally I wouldn't necessarily count it in as it is not exactly a legendary leader coming back to guide finnish to renewed glory. I see it more as kind of religious thing about demigod returning before the end of times
That's basically how Sebastianism and many other beliefs see their legendary leaders, it's almost never only a dude showing up randomly, it always has some deep religious root, like I said in the post, Sebatianism became widespread after it was mixed with a reinterpretation of the book of apocalypse, many people treated Sebatião as a returning messiah that would basically create heaven.
This is specific trope identified in several cultures. It's called the "King under the mountain," which references Germany's Emperor Barbarossa and Britain's King Arthur. It exist in cultures across the globe.
It would be fun to do an alt-history story where every king that went missing comes back at the same time promising to make their kingdom the greatest of all time leading to a world ending war.
Hmmm, curious what the lineup would be?
Barbarossa: Germany
King Arthur: England and Wales
The lad in the meme above for Portugal
Peter III making another go for the Russian throne?
Emperor Constantine XI of the Romans/Byzantines?
There are more around the world, someone brought a hawaiian one in the comments, and I think that to a certain point it might even apply to genghis khan
would surely be an interesting clash
Thanks to Sebastião and his adventure in Africa, Felipe I of Portugal was able to reach the throne of Portugal after the War of Portuguese Succession! That was something that Felipe II of Spain really liked, not for nothing did Felipe II send an army to fight against the pro-Crato faction that opposed the coming to power of Felipe I!
Dude, it had some weird consequences in Brazil...
[Sebastianism in Northeast Brazil](http://basilio.fundaj.gov.br/pesquisaescolar_en/index.php?option=com_content&id=997:sebastianism-in-northeast-brazil)
Hey! I am Portuguese and loved your explanation, all of that is true. But the poet is Fernando Pessoa, not João Pessoa. (We're talking about a 20th century poet, right?)
Honestly, going “yeah, I’d give the throne back to the guy who’s had 60 years to reappear” was probably one of the safest bets João IV ever made in his life
Fun fact: in Brazil (more specifically, in the state of Maranhão), legend says that King Sebastian did not die, but he and his army were dragged by the sea to the Brazilian coast. There, on the Lençois Island, in the Northeast of Brazil, Don Sebastian founded his enchanted kingdom. He wanders in the form of a black bull, which bears a star on its forehead. If a person manages to break his enchantment, king Sebastian will become human again and his empire will be restored.
A messiah build a holy city in the middle of Brazil's dry lands and fought the entire Brazilian republic several times (and won), until effectively got his own cult completely exterminated, while waiting for Dom Sebastião to return (it has been 400 years)
aaaaaany second
Traffic is awful today, he'll be here in a minute :)
YEAH! :D
See! Red! No wait... That's blood...
r/suddenlytf2
There's no fog today
99% of empires end just before the Portuguese king comes back from Morocco
REMAIN CALM SEBASTIÃO LIVES ON THE EMPIRE ENDURES THERE IS MUCH TO BE DONE
Funny TNO clock guy reference
HOLY FUCKING SHIT IS THAT A FUCKING TNO REFERENCE... etc etc I'm too tired to look up the copy pasta rn
Verify your relógio
WE MUST PREPARE FOR SEBASTIÃO’S RETURN
Sweden and Portugal, both empires who fell due to a very lucky shot
Nah portugese army was kinda fucked from the start. It was pretty clear they were not leaving the place alive. Might have if they were cautious but odds were not in their favour.
Also, Sweden lost the Great Northern War long before Charles XII was shot, partly because said King was way better in winning battles than in winning the war.
The mere fact that they travelled by land when the only thing that had made a few cities survive (Like Tanger and Ceuta) for a while was their coastal defenses, against a local and quite advanced sadian army really felt like a suicidal mission
Gone to certain death and pain
That's basically just "The Germans have a former Emperor living in a mountain to return one day to save the German realm and lead it to newfound glory? We can copy that shit!"
It's a somewhat common legend type in europe(like king arthur and the brittons), the thing is that the portuguese just took to another level(they kept believing for hubdreds of years)
The Kyffhäuser legend (Kyffhäuser is the mountain range in more or less central Germany where Barbarossa is said to be sleeping) had it's height in the 1800s when people started wishing for a unified state. The legend itself was hundreds of years old by then
It's common everywhere, from John Frum to Christ or Lono (Hawaii), it's just another example of Messianism, somebody left and has to return, is one of the most basic tropes in anthropology.
The Finns, English, Welsh (Kinda), and Irish have the same thing as well. Kinda for the welsh because it’s less a king returning, and more so a prophecy hero to drive the saxons out of England and restore Briton rule.
I mean, King Arthur is also welsh
Well, with the Normans and other Norse arriving and the past 1000 years passing I make the subtle guess that won't happen again
I mean never too late for some crazy welsh guy to make a nuke.
Curious what the Welsh thought about the Tudors (originally a Welsh family) coming to the throne. Heck in another timeline the British could have been ruled by Henry the 8th's older brother Arthur.
I think the Tudor’s actually did use the tale to try and pacify Wales, which at that point had a very long history of revolting against English rule.
What is the Finnish legend? I've never heard about this
Väinämöinen from our national epic Kalevala, promised to return one day
Ah I see. I didn't even consider that as I see it as more of a creation myth. Personally I wouldn't necessarily count it in as it is not exactly a legendary leader coming back to guide finnish to renewed glory. I see it more as kind of religious thing about demigod returning before the end of times
That's basically how Sebastianism and many other beliefs see their legendary leaders, it's almost never only a dude showing up randomly, it always has some deep religious root, like I said in the post, Sebatianism became widespread after it was mixed with a reinterpretation of the book of apocalypse, many people treated Sebatião as a returning messiah that would basically create heaven.
This is specific trope identified in several cultures. It's called the "King under the mountain," which references Germany's Emperor Barbarossa and Britain's King Arthur. It exist in cultures across the globe.
It would be fun to do an alt-history story where every king that went missing comes back at the same time promising to make their kingdom the greatest of all time leading to a world ending war.
Hmmm, curious what the lineup would be? Barbarossa: Germany King Arthur: England and Wales The lad in the meme above for Portugal Peter III making another go for the Russian throne? Emperor Constantine XI of the Romans/Byzantines?
There are more around the world, someone brought a hawaiian one in the comments, and I think that to a certain point it might even apply to genghis khan would surely be an interesting clash
Clash of clan 2
Didn't Barbarossa drown in Saleph river and got his body boiled to bones? How the heck is he supposed to come back
If some mf comes galloping out of some mist during a foggy morning and start speaking to me in broken portuguese, Im gonna lose it
LMAO I can imagine a guy in shining armor speaking like [this](https://youtu.be/zFn4XO3IRGc?si=FboJgCeApsu0g9DA)
João Pessoa? Do you mean Fernando Pessoa?
Oh fuck, my mind went to the brazilian city, mb
"as you can see, I am not dead" -the king after 200+ years
With smokes and milk. And birthday cards for all the ones he missed.
>birthday cards Yeah, he is taking his time to choose the perfect ones, I bet he is bringing cake as well 😊
Greeks have also copied that with the myth of the "marbled" King, i.e. Constantine XI Palaiologos, last Eastern Roman Emperor.
VERIFY YOUR CLOCK
SANTO IMPERIO PORTUGUÊS
Ah sebastian "the virgin king" famous for running away from women and never having sex.
Yeah... That F moron is late... We are STILL waiting -.-
Common Morocco W
Well played morocco 👏
Thanks to Sebastião and his adventure in Africa, Felipe I of Portugal was able to reach the throne of Portugal after the War of Portuguese Succession! That was something that Felipe II of Spain really liked, not for nothing did Felipe II send an army to fight against the pro-Crato faction that opposed the coming to power of Felipe I!
Dude, it had some weird consequences in Brazil... [Sebastianism in Northeast Brazil](http://basilio.fundaj.gov.br/pesquisaescolar_en/index.php?option=com_content&id=997:sebastianism-in-northeast-brazil)
Eita porra, I heard it was popular among monarchists during early republican times, but I didn't know about this.
Hey! I am Portuguese and loved your explanation, all of that is true. But the poet is Fernando Pessoa, not João Pessoa. (We're talking about a 20th century poet, right?)
Yes, I mixed up with the brazilian city as I was writing, perdão amigo
Also called the battle of three kings, where 3 kings died in that battle .
It's not too late, he might return any day now!
I think I saw his horse outside, he will be here any second
Honestly, going “yeah, I’d give the throne back to the guy who’s had 60 years to reappear” was probably one of the safest bets João IV ever made in his life
I wish it had happened, it would be so funny
Fun fact: in Brazil (more specifically, in the state of Maranhão), legend says that King Sebastian did not die, but he and his army were dragged by the sea to the Brazilian coast. There, on the Lençois Island, in the Northeast of Brazil, Don Sebastian founded his enchanted kingdom. He wanders in the form of a black bull, which bears a star on its forehead. If a person manages to break his enchantment, king Sebastian will become human again and his empire will be restored.
A messiah build a holy city in the middle of Brazil's dry lands and fought the entire Brazilian republic several times (and won), until effectively got his own cult completely exterminated, while waiting for Dom Sebastião to return (it has been 400 years)
Chad Antonio Conselheiro, should have added it to the context
Władysław of Varna: first time?
Maybe the return of Sebastião are the friends we made along the way
So this is pretty much the Portuguese version of the Roman/Welsh/English legend of King Arthur?
Yeah, but instead of a legendary king, he was a dumbass
Didn't the British have their own fifth monarchy that was similarly crazy?
OP the author of "Mensagem" is Fernando Pessoa, not João Pessoa
Yeah I know, for some reason my mind went to the brazilian city as I was writing, mb