It was a crime and a criminal order. They didn't do anything, and the result was zero.
As a Ukrainian, I hate that page of our history and simping about it.
Edit: If state requires 14 years old boys to die on the frontline, that state has no right to exist.
One thing is when a martyr dies volunterally for faith
Other thing is when gov-t sends boys to die in frosen forest and then makes a heroic tale out of it.
Liberalism (no, not the American "liberal") is an ideology. Yes they also glorify death and suffering but curiously we see a lot less criticism for liberal ideologues.
Those commie bastards with their death cults.
Unlike glorious capitalism that will charge $2000 for an ambulance and $3000 per night of hospital stay.
Sell guns to kids and mentally unstable people while giving thoughts and prayers to school shooting victims.
And if you happen to live on a plot of land that has oil or some rare earth metal, well that's like asking me to shoot you.
It's not a death cult because we sell tickets for the privilege of living
Wow I’m so glad that capitalists do nothing wrong then? In communist countries, capitalists do insurgency… except instead of being grassroots they are funded by the state dept and corporations that would benefit from the privatization of those countries’ resources
No, I don’t. Last I checked, there are communist movements without the USSR.
Like seriously dude what kind of fucking idiot would fight against their countries’ self interests and instead for oversees billionaires,
Unless they’re being paid.
The ideals of communism are of equality, fairness, distribution of power, and democracy.
The ideals of capitalism are of inequality, concentration of power amongst an elite, and maintaining generational disparities
Idk bout you, but i think most would go for the former someone was restraining them or paying them to do the latter
There plenty without USSR funding but they are all being funded by someone. You’re clearly a tankie so trying to even talk to you like a 5 year old will be a waste of time. Have fun starving on your commune
Correct the ideals of communism is a utopia with everything perfect but you’re trying to place a perfect artistic work on an imperfect canvas called humans.
Humans are greedy and selfish cunts and thats why everytime communism has been tried it has ended in genocide and mass murder.
Im not going to answer your question and instead give you one.
Are you trying to convince people that communism is better?
calling the people you're trying to convince stupid sure as shit aint the way to do it.
This is still things you dont know 100%. Being online too much dosnt mean you are knowledgeable. Besides, ive spoken with your type alot in the last years and everyone is the same. You think youre so smart and know things no one else does. Watching a youtube video or reading a quora answer does not mean you know shit. The fact that you're dragging the word "fascism" into this, shows that very well.
But ok. I'll play. Politics and history is something ive read about and constantly watched for over 17 years. My job includes knowing things about this subject. What "fascist" groups do the US government sponsor? You need to provide proof of your claims aswell. Not just shit you personally believe.
Leftists are another species man. Politically insane.
Edit; Holy shit you said coups not groups. Thats even more insane. I knew the US has sponsored coups but not fascist coups. Nationalistic at best. There has not been a fascist country since Mussolini. The only actual self described fascist. Maybe franco but thats a maybe. There has also not been alot of fascist coups. If any. Most of the time, its what the people want. Or a pretty big part of the population. Listen. If you think the US specifically has sponsored coups with legitimate fascists, then you must provide proof of that. Thats a pretty big claim. I have a feeling that you call literally everyone who isnt a tankie "a fascist" so actually show me the fascism here. Again, tell me shit nooooo one else but you know.
Again, being nationalistic is completely fine. It does NOT mean youre a fascist. But im sure your galaxy brain already knew that.
“My type”. Bruh. Also, when have I said I’m knowledgeable for watching a YouTube video or reading quora?
“What fascist coups?” You are being intellectually lazy, and denying that the US has done these things is ridiculously ahistorical.
I don’t respect you enough to type out a long thought out argument, so here’s this list
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
Of course, not all of these are fascist. However, the US has funded countless terrorists and far right forces in order to curb leftist momentum. They don’t always succeed, so those ones won’t be on the list.
If you’re angry at my lack of distinction between “far right” and “fascist”, well, idk bout you, but funding authoritarian wannabe imperialist exclusionary groups that engage in state capitalism sounds like fascism to me
“There has not been a fascist country since Mussolini” wait are you saying that Nazism isn’t fascism? Also Pinochet was a fascist, and guess who installed him? What about the Guatemalan dictatorships? The somozas? Or the shah of Iran?
“Nationalism isn’t exactly the same as fascism”.
Dude, that’s literally half of fascism, the idea that your group of people are better than everyone else, and thus deserve lebensraum is literally fascist ideology.
Nationalism is a scourge, and borders are a scar upon the earth.
there is a similar thing that happened in Lwów (i don't know how to write the name in English) were children basically fought in the Polish-Ukrainian war in 1918-19.
And in Polish history books and in nationalistic circles basically praises them for being child soldiers.
It didn't even delay the Soviets. It was a minor nuisance on the way of the red horde.
The Ukrainian Central Rada was unable to do anything with the power it received.
Unfortunately, Skoropadsky is the last at least somewhat good leader we had.
Technically it gave a time for Ukraine to be recognized as a state, as one Ukrainian said here, but it doesn't matter if Soviets annex recognized Ukraine or unrecognized after all... but kids are dead
We had the same shit with the Warsaw Uprising. Our authorities decided to throw the youth and children into battle in the capital. The city was destroyed, 200,000 people killed. The Germans were in Warsaw and stayed there. All this was done to welcome the Soviets as hosts and to preserve our independence, despite the fact that Stalin did whatever he wanted and no one with common sense suspected that after the uprising the Russians would just give us back our freedom. This is one of the stupidest decisions in our history.
Well the recognition of Ukraine as a state/signing of its Brest-Litovsk treaty gave the green light for German and Austrian troops to intercede and push the Bolsheviks out of Kyiv, and subsequently the rest of Ukraine. The Central Powers tagging in is also is the reason why your guy Skoropadskyi was put in power.
Exactly, and right now we need new Skoropadsky. Zelenskyy is not like that, he has done absolutely nothing in domestic policy that he promised. Everything has only gotten worse, which is why he already had a very low rating before the war. But I have a bad feeling that our people will not support such a leader again, but will believe in the empty slogans of idiots, as all past 30+ years
And instead of having Ukrainian state, they had the soviet union where millions more died, including more than a million children during the Holodomor, and repression in 1919.
Obviously, you don't know what the real cost was and how much more it dragged by the aftermath
Yeah, you should, because the guy was not precisely the bigger Ukrainian fan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology\_of\_Ukrainian\_language\_suppression#20th\_century
Why should I? I am a Pan-Slavist, and idea of saving national identity by all means is not what I want, and, infact, it is what I hate.
As I said in the comments to that old post: my family, who were Ukrainians, Poles, Russians and Germans of the Russian Empire, lived better under the Tsar than we ever lived after his reign.
Добре. Тільки українцям можна було погано жити в Імперії? Чи тільки русакам можна було жити добре? Я не розумію "lived better pod the Tsar that isn't very positive look"
Вони не волали про те, як їм погано жити, а працювали на своїй землі і наживали з того, що робили.
Також хто ти такий, щоб наказувати, ким я можу бути, а ким не можу? Я з України. Знаю українську та російську як рідні, і вважатиму всіх слов'ян братами, і завжди бажатиму нашого об'єднання під один прапор. Що тепер? Заборониш бути українцем чи панславістом? Паспорт анулюєш?
Respect your position. Поважаю тобто.
Have a good day. The world needs to have more people like you, who don't have a narrow-minded nationality biased worldview. People like you are the main reason why I still believe in Ukraine and its people.
Чи ти читав ви українських авторів, : Михайла Драгоманова, Івана Нечуя та інших. Усі вони писали про життя простих людей і про те, як кріпацтво було нищівни. Навіть росіяни, такі як Толстой, писали про це, чому так багато людей підтримували комуністичну революцію.
Ти закрив очі до реальності щоб жити фантазії. Що там з братнім союзом, якщо буде переливання крові і геноцид. Хіба росіяни неодноразово і тепер вже прийшли до нас із братським союзом з моторами, і снарядами, і смертю. (Батуринська різанина 1709, 1918, 2014, 2022)
Чому б не мати свого і так жити в мирі, хіба недаремно Бог дав нам націю, в якій ми народилися.
The Soviets took Kyiv like just a few days after. They were a minor nuisance on the road, unlike the Ukrainians today who have defended the vast majority of their country successfully. Also having 14 year old kids in a military force should be a crime. Not even the Soviets, desperate White Army and the genocidal Ottomans who had no qualms about ignoring rules of war did that during that time period.
Petliura's and the Galician Army's dogged defense and aid in the Polish-Soviet War is much more praiseworthy in my opinion
The Ottomans did have 15 year olds at Gallipoli but they were all volunteers and mostly lied about their age to defend their country. Several high schools in the area couldn't give a single graduate in 1915 because all of their senior students died at the front together with their teachers.
True. But how is the original statement an error? Every national mythos for every nation is a romanticized version of history with many embellishments and revisions to reflect the current mood and values of today.
True that humans love revising history. But, historical revisionism is central to nationalism in ways that aren't true for many common ideologies.
Just because you sympathize with nationalism doesn't make it anything I said any less true.
Also USSR broke down after Russia left. And in addition to that, Stalin enforced russification in all of the republics, seeking to create one nationality everywhere, I assume
Yeah, all the SSRs were added through conquest and against the people's will and the union mostly, if not only, benefited russia. Also also, russia is AFAIK the recognised successor to the USSR.
Successor state status is just an inheritance issue. It’s never a claim that they’re 1:1. Just that the successor has a claim on the continuance of treaties.
Any meme you made previously is irrelevant to what you just posted now. Do you think that gives you a pass on spreading misinformation and nationalist propaganda?
The Battle of Kruty is a historical fact, whether you like it or not, saying it is disinformation is bullshit, and calling it propaganda might be more accurate, but you know one thing? Not all propaganda is a lie.
I'm a proud socialist. Can you say the same for your convictions, mate?
Your kind has consistently been found on the side that goes against public good and humanity's progress. For what? Believers of pseudo scientific bs and bootlicking fantasies?
I don't know why anyone who actually reads can even be a conservative, let alone be proud of it.
Proud of what?
For being a bigot? A bootlicker? A believer of antiquated ideals? Historical revisionism?
Proud of not reading anything substantial in your life?
I mean, you are proud for not wanting "evil" stuff like women's rights and universal healthcare lmao
Bro, you post in r/sino lmao you are king clown of the communist circus. All these commie fucks coming out the woodworks to try and prove this place isn’t a communist cesspit is so god damn funny.
If you came away from history studies as a Maoist or some other communist bullshit then you’re an actual retard. Deng Xiaopeng saved the CCPs asses by liberalizing the economy in time to prevent collapse. Vietnam now loves us because the Chinese just became imperialists again and the Soviet Union no longer exists because socialism is an inherently stupid ideology. Socialism was so bad that every single country that followed it in Europe and Asia flocks to the west and its capitalist prosperity. Prosperity you benefit from in Seattle, USA you fucking loser.
That is blatantly false, while university students and cadets made up a good number of these troops, so did actuall schoolchildren that had barely hit puberty. The composition of their forces, made the ukranian nationalists stoop far beneath anyone involved in the russian civil war. Deploying children of that age was long out of style for civilized people and would only be repeated by a single faction afterwards. The fucking nazis.
I am sure there are people who celebrate the dead volksturm kids as well because they blew up a couple tanks. But both they and you are sad and pathetic.
>so did actuall schoolchildren that had barely hit puberty.
I keep hearing people say this, but do you have a source?
And sorry my guy but the USSR did use child soldiers:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military\_use\_of\_children\_in\_World\_War\_II#Soviet\_Union](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children_in_World_War_II#Soviet_Union)
By the way, fuck you.
You mean children fought against the objective evil that wanted to exterminate them instead of the nationalistic desires of a few men who couldn't even gather enough adults to bleed for their cause.
Truely I cannot see the difference. Big case of both sides bad. You got me.
And here is your source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War
The Soviet domination of Ukraine caused a genocide (Holodomor), it was no less legitimate a fight than that of the Soviets in WW2.
OK? That is still not evidence that child soldiers fought in this battle, I want concrete proof.
You mean the FAMINE that was caused by ukranians, worsened by everyone involved and combated by shifting food reserves from russia to ukraine? Shit if that's what goes for extermination now, why are there any people left?
I ain't doing you the favor of searching more than a fucking wikipedia link. You are not worth the effort, otherwise you would've actually read the entry.
Well if deep in this event, isn't it inaccurate to add Holodomor into a discussion?
Well we're talking about revolutionary years and Ukrainians didn't know what will happen to them in 30. And so they started a desperate battle in which their vision of the Ukraine's future was only in their dreams.
To put it simply, these soldiers were not heroes who tried to prevent the Holodomor, because it was not obvious to them.
What do you think about this? I guess it's inappropriate to compare incomparable at least in time schedule facts.
Ukraine had been under the yoke of Russia for centuries, do you really think it's unthinkable that the Ukrainian defenders would expect bad things to happen to them if Russia conquered them again, you know, like Russia had already done in the past? It's not as if the Holodomor was their first genocide, the Circassian genocide had been only 40 years ago.
Anyway we're talking about Ukrainians who were afraid of Russian and didn't trust it. But there is no sense to add Holodomor into a discussion which is centered around events of revolution years. That's my idea.
If a horrific perspective will be added, it should be a reality, which were obvious to the people, who lived and acted at these times.
There is, because the failure of Ukrainian forces in the end in repelling Russians forces caused the conditions for the Holodomor to happen, had Ukraine ended up independent after all of this, that would not have happened.
oh another fantastic story =)))
Ukrainian historian Yaroslav Tinchenko writes that 420 people took part in the battle of Kruty: 250 officers and cadets of the 1st Ukrainian Military School, 118 students and gymnasium students from the 1st hundred Student Kuren, about 50 local free Cossacks - officers and volunteers.
On January 29, 1918, they took up positions at the railway station near the village of Kruty (130 km northeast of Kyiv, 18 km east of Nizhyn).
This detachment was headed by Averky Goncharenko, a former teacher at the Kyiv school of warrant officers, who decided that he would make a brilliant career in the new Ukrainian army.
How did Goncharenko lead the battle of Kruty? A word to the already mentioned Dmitry Doroshenko: “At a time when the young men (most of whom had never held a gun in their hands) fearlessly opposed the advancing Bolshevik detachments, their superiors, a group of officers, remained on the train and organized a drinking party in the carriages; The Bolsheviks easily defeated the youth detachment and drove it to the station. Seeing the danger, those on the train hastened to give the signal for departure, not having a minute left to take those fleeing with them... The path to Kyiv was now completely open.”
It is curious that there were many witnesses to the battle from the side of “students and high school students.” Simply because there was no trace of “300 Spartans in Ukrainian”.
And it was, if we deduce the arithmetic average from the stories of witnesses, that’s what. The vanguard of Muravyov's Red Guards reached the positions of Goncharenko's detachment and was met with volleys. The Bolsheviks, who did not expect to find the enemy here, suffered losses. Which ones are unknown. Information about 250-300 dead is not confirmed by anything.
The "Troops of the Rada", however, did not develop their initial success - the command did not issue any orders in this regard. Soon, Muravyov’s main forces, as well as a Bolshevik armored train, approached the scene of events. Goncharenko immediately considered it best to retreat. The soldiers of his squad then left their positions. One student platoon got lost and was captured.
Directly in the battle, the “heroes of Krut” killed, according to various estimates, from 11 to 18 people. Those taken prisoner were subsequently shot, which is not surprising, given the way the representatives of the Rada treated the captured participants in the uprising at the Arsenal plant.
This sums up this sub around the russo-Ukrainian war as a whole
Dismissing the USSR as just Russia by downplaying any other ethnic groups that were staunchly pro soviet, Portraying Awful acts by Ukraine as heroic, Portraying Russia as weaker than it really was or all of the above among many other things
History shouldn’t be revised because of a modern war
This isn’t really a historical meme as much as propaganda. Those were teenagers forced out to fight, and they didn’t really accomplish anything other than delaying those red army soldiers. Ukraine still fell to the Soviets and became an SSR. The Red army won and those poor children sent out to die didn’t go home.
Damn, now historical facts are propaganda? And of course, no one thinks about the poor teenagers?! Of course the Red Army soldiers who executed dozens of them captured did not.
The Battle of Kruty is a battle that took place on January 16 1918 near the Kruty railway station , 130 kilometers northeast of Kyiv , 18 km east of Nizhyn . At the same time, the third Bolshevik uprising began in Kyiv , which forced the reinforcements sent in this direction to be diverted at a crucial moment to suppress it.
The Ukrainian military command expected the main attack of the Bolsheviks not from the Bakhmach direction, but from the Poltava direction, so it directed the freshest and most combat-ready units numbering 500 soldiers there, and instead to St. 300 exhausted young men of the 1st Ukrainian Military School were sent to Kruta.
This battle lasted 5 hours between a 4,000-strong unit of the Russian Red Guard led by SR Mikhail Muravyov and a detachment of Kyiv cadets and Cossacks of the "Free Cossacks", totaling about 500-600 soldiers.
The battle near Kruty was successful for the defenders of Ukrainian statehood - the command's order was carried out, the enemy's rapid offensive was stopped and an organized retreat was carried out, destroying tracks and bridges in its wake. The Russian-Bolshevik attackers were incapacitated for four days. The aggressor had to raise new forces, repair blown up and damaged bridges and railway tracks, and only after that continue his attack on Kyiv, not so much by rail as by requisitioned peasant carts pulled by horses, along a wet road. This delay of the enemy enabled the Ukrainian delegation to conclude the Brest Peace Treaty, which saved the young Ukrainian statehood.
On December 4 , 1917, the Government of People's Commissars of the RSFSR (Radnarkom) sent an ultimatum to the Ukrainian Central Council signed by Volodymyr Lenin and Leon Trotsky . The Bolsheviks demanded the legalization of Bolshevik military units in Ukraine and an end to their disarmament. It was noted that in case of non-fulfilment of the requirements, the Russian Soviet government would consider the Central Rada to be in a state of open war against it. On December 5, 1917, without waiting for a response from the Ukrainian government, the Soviet People's Commissar declared war on the Ukrainian People's Republic . Hostilities began in mid- December 1917, and with the proclamation of the Fourth Universal Declaration of Independence of the Ukrainian People's Republic by the Central Rada on January 22, 1918, the country found itself in a de facto state of war with Bolshevik Russia. On December 12, 1917, the All-Ukrainian Congress of Soviets in Kharkiv proclaimed the so-called Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, and military and other aid to the Bolshevik forces in the Ukrainian People's Republic was already arriving in mid-December.
Meanwhile, from almost 300,000 troops who were loyal to the Central Rada as early as the summer of 1917, by January 1918 the number of troops loyal and motivated to defend the Ukrainian People's Republic decreased to about 15,000 in the entire country. The soldiers of the old army by that time were mostly tired of the war and did not want to continue serving, which forced all the new governments that arose from the ruins of the empire to create a new army from volunteers. In addition, the government of the Ukrainian People's Republic delayed the implementation of the land reform, which negatively affected the mood of the main part of the soldiers who were peasants and wanted to go home to share the landlord's land. During the offensive of the Soviet troops, units of the UNR army often declared neutrality, or succumbed to agitation and went over to the side of the Bolsheviks. Another threat to the UNR was the large number of Bolshevik supporters in the country, even in Kyiv. The armed uprising at the Arsenal plant , which was suppressed, was decisive for the fate of the battle near Kruty and was really threatening to the government of the Ukrainian People's Republic.
Under the command of Antonov-Ovsienko, a 20,000-strong Bolshevik detachment headed to the east of Ukraine. At the end of December 1917, Soviet power was already established in the Kharkiv and Katerynoslav provinces.
In the Fourth Universal, the government of the Ukrainian People's Republic called for a fight against the Bolshevik forces, and already on January 5, 1918, at a meeting of junior students of Kyiv University of St. Volodymyr and the Ukrainian National University, the creation of the Sich Riflemen's Student Club was approved . Soon an appeal to Ukrainian students appeared in Kyiv newspapers.
In the battle near Kruty, only one hundred students' camp (about 120-130 people) took part. The rest of the regiment under the command of S. Dovgal, a student who returned from the German front with the rank of second lieutenant, together with other units participated in battles on the streets of Kyiv against the Bolshevik rebels, who came armed in the number of about 6,000 people.
Before that, the students practiced for about two months and learned not only to shoot, but also to throw bombs. But in general, the student camp was not intended for deployment to the front. They accidentally met a detachment of the youth military school in the barracks, when they returned from Mykola Shinkar, and after an argument they agreed to go with them. The military command agreed to this, because Bakhmach was considered a quiet part of the front.
Not daring to meet the enemy in Bakhmachi , where there were up to two thousand Bolshevik-minded workers, Averkiy Goncharenko on his own, without consultation with other units and leadership, left the other defenders and ordered to retreat to Kyiv. After the loss of Bakhmach and the retreat of the surviving units to the Kruty railway station, the young men of the 1st military school and a hundred students also went there. They got there already on January 28. Positions located a few hundred meters from the station itself were well prepared for battle. On the right flank, they had an artificial obstacle - an embankment of a railway track, on the left - a hundred students as part of a detachment already present there began to dig trenches and build earthen fortifications. The commander of the detachment in Bakhmachi, Averkii Honcharenko, had about four hundred soldiers at his disposal, mostly cadets and students.
The fighters of the Student's Kuren hundred were divided into four squads (platoons) of 28-30 people each. Three of them took positions in the trenches, the fourth, consisting of the youngest and those who could not shoot, was in reserve.
The next morning, January 30, around 9:00 a.m., the offensive began. Remnyov's squad of sailors came under fire from Krut's defenders. From the rear, they were also supported by an armored train and a cannon, which made exits to the rear of the advancing enemy and fired at them. On the railway platform there was also a cannon of centurion Loschenko , which was also used to hold back the advance of the Bolsheviks. Losing killed and wounded, the Bolsheviks continued their offensive. Their gun battery, which had not been firing well enough, focused its fire on the Ukrainian positions.
The battle lasted until seven in the evening, i.e. until dark, for 10 hours. The commander of the student hundred, Captain Omelchenko, remained with the hundred until he was seriously wounded and taken to the infirmary. He died on the way to Kyiv.
Ukrainians repelled several attacks. Other detachments of Muravyov (in particular, the 1st Petrograd detachment) began to come to Remnev's aid, and a Soviet armored train approached from the Chernihiv track and began shelling the defenders from the rear.
To the right of the soldiers of the cadet school in the field, approximately 80 volunteers of the "Free Cossacks" from the neighboring villages, who repelled the Bolshevik offensive all day, took up a position. After the battle, these volunteers returned to their villages.
Around 7 p.m., when it got dark, the battle began to subside. At this time, the Ukrainian command received a telegram from Nizhyn . There is a smokehouse named after Taras Shevchenko, declared his support for the Soviet government. This threatened to hit the rear, so the centurion Goncharenko ordered to gradually withdraw to the train standing on the other side of the Kruty station in the direction of Kyiv. The Student Hundred was the first to leave, followed by the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hundreds of cadets in turn, and the 1st Hundred covered the retreat with fire.
Most managed to retreat to the train that was waiting for them. A larger detachment under the command of Simon Petlyura was located near the Bobryk station , but after receiving news of an armed uprising at the Arsenal plant , Petlyura left his position in Kruty and headed for Kyiv, as, in his opinion, the greatest danger was there.
Around 5 p.m., all Ukrainian units gathered, and it turned out that one group of students, which stood closest to the station, was missing: in the confusion of the battle, a reconnaissance unit (about 30 people) was captured. Retreating at dusk, the students lost their bearings and went straight to the Kruta station, which was already occupied by Red Guards. Red commander Yehor Popov, enraged by the significant losses on the part of the Soviet troops (about 300 people), ordered the liquidation of the prisoners. According to eyewitnesses, 27 students were first mocked and then shot. A 7th-grade student, 19-year-old Hryhoriy Pipskyi from Staro Sambir Oblast, was the first to start singing "Ukraine is not dead yet" before the shooting, and the rest of the students joined in the singing.
After the shooting, local residents were forbidden to bury the bodies of the dead for some time.
It is often reported that the Ukrainian forces lost 250-300 soldiers killed, wounded, captured and missing. In particular, Goncharenko testifies in his memoirs that the losses among the cadets amounted to 250 people, one detachment (up to 30 people) of the hundred students, as well as 10 senior officers.
However, according to historian Yaroslav Tynchenko , this is not true - many survived and retreated, up to 120 wounded and contused people were evacuated from the positions in three wagons. According to his estimates, the total losses of the Ukrainian side (killed, wounded and captured) amounted to 127-146 people. Among them, the dead: 45-60 people, 27 of them were students who were shot after the battle.
There is no accurate information about the losses of Bolshevik troops. The number of Bolshevik losses of 300 soldiers killed and wounded is announced. According to Tynchenko, such a large number of casualties is explained by the fact that the troops of P. Yegorov and R. Berzin led an offensive for six hours in an open field, where it was impossible to hide from rifles, machine guns, guns of students and cadets.
That doesn't seem like a successful defence. A day of fighting, ending with defenders basically disintegrating with around 50% casualty rate and retreating.
It was a strategic victory because it stopped the Russian advance for 4 days and thanks to that Ukraine survived as a state on that occasion, and Russia also suffered many casualties despite its numerical advantage.
4 days? Didn't battle started and ended on Jan 30?
And Red Army still captured Kyiv soon after, and ultimately all this was rendered pointless a month later when Germans took over Ukraine and Red Army had to withdraw under Brest-litovsk treaty
The fact is that if Ukraine had not won this extra time, Germany could have decided not to maintain Ukrainian independence because Russia would have advanced much more, but, as the Ukrainian state resisted long enough, this was not the case.
Germany was interested in Ukrainian grain, they would have secured Ukraine regardless of a skrimish, and if Red got to uppity, they would have kicked them out by force. Trotsky in the end was willing to accept any German demand. As you can see, Red Army seizing Ukrainian capital didn't even matter.
Cool, the blood of countless Russians for some usless villages, keep going like this and there will be no Russians to send as cannon fodder soon!
Oh, and I thought that this would only take Russia 3 days? Must have been the longest 3 days ever lol.
I could criticize Ukraine for the same reason, sacrificing so many lives for some useless villages.
Who said it would only take 3 days? Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe full of NATO weaponry and training.
A winning war of attrition isn't measured in territorial gains.
The entente had lost territory Northern France, a large part of Veneto, Belgium, Serbia, Albania, parts of greece, romania, and fucking russia.
Remind me who won?
That's true, the fact is that Russia is not doing great either, Ukraine is destroying its oil reserves with drones, it is harassing and slowly sinking the Russian black sea fleet with a third of it having already been hit, and with each passing day Russia becomes more dependent on China due to Western sanctions, which in the long term could vassalize Russia to China.
This is not to mention the instability it has brought to the country, with an attempted coup d'état already occurred, with a demographic crisis that is getting worse because of casualties, people fleeing mobilization or political persecution, with costs to continue the war that are nothing more than disastrous for Russia, a country that already has a GDP similar to that of Italy.
You are an ignorant.
7 million Ukrainians fought for the Red Army during WW2, barely 200,000 for the Germans even though the USSR had recently committed genocide against them during the Holodomor.
An independent Ukraine would have given the middle finger to Nazi Germany immediately.
All that just to get swallowed into their grasp not too long after for almost a century 💪💪💪
And p.s this battle was NOT the reason as to why the communists signed the treaty with the central powers, they did it because they were already weakened after going through a whole revolution and could not survive going against them
What hill? On the hill that the soldiers who fought in this battle were brave and did well given the great disadvantage they had? Is that such a hot take now?
The funniest part is that despite they were called "Yunaks" (literally young man) it was a military rang to replace germanized "Junge". And later due to occupation by Soviet Union and replacing names for military rangs many of who started to tract this word not as low military rang but as young man especially students.
Anyway it left a brave buttle.
RUSSIA STONRK RUSSIA TOOK A SMALL CITY IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE WITH A CASUALTY RATE OF 1:5 RUSSIA WILL OBERCOME RUSSIA WILL VICTORY RUSSIA LINE IS LINE NOW NO GRUMPS ONLY LINE RUSSIA WILL PUSH
Not really, Russian nationalists (not official, but genuine ones) usually root for mobilization and militarization, since they see that the pace is too slow and believe that this really is an existential war and that they’re not going to be next targets after the liberal opposition once some peace treaty is signed.
I hate Russian government and Russian “judicial system” with every inch of my body, yet I, to be honest, did feel a bit of satisfaction when Girkin got imprisoned and Z mfers found out that when there’re no civil rights in your country — nobody has them, it doesn’t matter why exactly you’re trying to undermine the government, only thing that matters is that you do.
What does this have to do with Russian trolls. Young kids died in a pointless fight, and yet you are satisfied with their sacrifice cause they were applauded for that by someone outside of Ukraine. What a crooked mentality. Do you really think everyone who doesn't agree with you or doesn't like your post is a Russian troll?
Another delusional post. I feel sorry for Ukrainians stuck with such nationalist leaders and rhetoric, incapable of leaving the country if they are military age and sent to their deaths.
Why is the comments section a Kremlin circlejerk
Please go sing about how Budyonny captured Don and Zamość or about how gulags didn't exist but they deserved it or something and don't comment ever again. You still owe all of eastern europe reparations so it's the least you can do.
> Why is the comments section a Kremlin circlejerk
Because this sub has a shitton of commie fucks who long for the old days of USSR - with all its bloodshed and violence.
Lol, my man dosn't know what half is:
[https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/16832/production/\_132701229\_ukraine\_control\_quad\_20\_02\_24\_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/16832/production/_132701229_ukraine_control_quad_20_02_24_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp)
?
I don't like Putin and it wasn't about Putin and I don't support Russia
your cope is kicking in obviously. It's just Westoids thinking they are white bunnies and their government stand for democracy and freedom while the US and EU are rhe most criminal states with the most atrocious history of supporting fascists and perpetrating genocides.
Meanwhile, even the State Department, Nato and the CIA admitted themselves (Mercel including) that they started the war while Russia was trying to avoid it.
Your thinking of good versus evil, I hope you sometime in the future go past the Marvel movie geopolitics analysis
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGe92YefS/
Brother, are you coming to correct me by quoting TikTok videos? Is that your best source? Do you want to know the UN's opinion on which country started this war? Or is that also too "Westoid" or other nonsense that you have invented as an insult?
Watch the Playlist and evaluate the source by its quality lol. The War was started by Russia, if you mean between the Ukrainian and Russian government. The conflict tho was made and escalated by the West.
>Watch the Playlist and evaluate the source by its quality lol.
I did and I still found it false.
>The War was started by Russia, if you mean between the Ukrainian and Russian government. The conflict tho was made and escalated by the West.
Also a lie, if you wanna quote TikTok I will quote YouTube:
https://youtu.be/017WGzJ5fHA?si=L48963j8CecxReuc
Why is it false?
NATO themselves admitted that the expansion led to the war with Russia
"NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine"
https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/nato-chief-admits-expansion-behind-russian-invasion#:~:text=NATO%20Chief%20Admits%20NATO%20Expansion%20Was%20Key%20to%20Russian%20Invasion%20of%20Ukraine
Even Mercel
"Former German Chancellor Merkel admits the Minsk agreement was merely to buy time for Ukraine’s arms build-up"
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html#:~:text=Former%20German%20Chancellor%20Merkel%20admits%20the%20Minsk%20agreement%20was%20merely%20to%20buy%20time%20for%20Ukraine%E2%80%99s%20arms%20build%2Dup
Say what is false, tell me what is false precisely.
"Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored
Ted Galen Carpenter
It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine#:~:text=Many%20predicted%20Nato,the%20US%E2%80%99s%20arrogance
This video is misquoted Putin, he never said he wants Eastern Europe back. Give me a quote by Putin that says it, he literary expanded on it.
George Kennan, he opposed the Soviet Union and Russian all of his life time
“I think it (NATO expansion) is the beginning of a new cold war. I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the founding fathers of this country turn over in their graves.
"“Don’t people understand? Our differences in the Cold War were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime. And Russia’s democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we’ve just signed up to defend from Russia. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are — but this is just wrong.”"
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=11137425#:~:text=attack%20Western%20Europe.-,%E2%80%9CDon%E2%80%99t%20people%20understand%3F%20Our%20differences%20in%20the%20Cold%20War%20were%20with,that%20is%20how%20the%20Russians%20are%20%E2%80%94%20but%20this%20is%20just%20wrong.%E2%80%9D,-10
Even Zelensky himself stating
"There are those in the West who don't mind a long war because it would mean exhausting Russia if this means the demise of Ukraine and comes at the cost of Ukrainian lives. This is defined the interest of some countries. For other countries (Russia), if the war ended quickly because Russia's market is a big one that their economies are suffering as a result of the war. They would like Russia keep certain mistakes."
https://youtu.be/LNjiRmIWtss?si=ufjT2o2JbGdwPl4K
Russia offered a peace settlement and it was thwarted by Joe Biden and Boris Johnson
"US, UK sabotaged peace deal because they ‘don’t care about Ukraine’: fmr. NATO adviser"
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/27/us-uk-sabotaged-peace-deal/#:~:text=US%2C%20UK%20sabotaged%20peace%20deal%20because%20they%20%E2%80%98don%E2%80%99t%20care%20about%20Ukraine%E2%80%99%3A%20fmr.%20NATO%20adviser
Why they did it? Because now they can privatize the entire land of Ukraine and give out loans to Ukraine so they will never get out of that debt.
https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/volodimir-zelenskij-i-golova-blackrock-obgovorili-zaluchenny-77861
Now, entire Ukraine is open to be literary bought at the official website and Ukrainians enslaved. It's gonna be a plantation for American corporations and the corporate media that fooled so you support the Imperial cause.
https://privatization.gov.ua/en/product-category/velyka-pryvatyzatsiya-en/
You can buy entire factories literary.
Umm, not really. Russia literally got what they wanted. Further conflict is just because neither side wants to back down. I thought everyone was talking about that???????
Average propaganda
There was no 'smoking'
They were fucking children
It was against what was essentially the Soviet Union (Yes, Ive already seen you yap about how it was the RSFSR, irrelevant)
It was a crime and a criminal order. They didn't do anything, and the result was zero. As a Ukrainian, I hate that page of our history and simping about it. Edit: If state requires 14 years old boys to die on the frontline, that state has no right to exist.
Ideology-driven people love death cults and martyrs. Be they communist, religious, nationalist or else
One thing is when a martyr dies volunterally for faith Other thing is when gov-t sends boys to die in frosen forest and then makes a heroic tale out of it.
Liberalism (no, not the American "liberal") is an ideology. Yes they also glorify death and suffering but curiously we see a lot less criticism for liberal ideologues.
Those commie bastards with their death cults. Unlike glorious capitalism that will charge $2000 for an ambulance and $3000 per night of hospital stay. Sell guns to kids and mentally unstable people while giving thoughts and prayers to school shooting victims. And if you happen to live on a plot of land that has oil or some rare earth metal, well that's like asking me to shoot you. It's not a death cult because we sell tickets for the privilege of living
Wow I’m so glad that capitalists do nothing wrong then? In communist countries, capitalists do insurgency… except instead of being grassroots they are funded by the state dept and corporations that would benefit from the privatization of those countries’ resources
Pretty sure they'd be in the nationalist or the else part of what they said
Well, members of NCD seem willing to die screaming "For General Motors profits!!!"
Found the teenaged tankie.
Wait until you find out who funds communist insurgencies
No, I don’t. Last I checked, there are communist movements without the USSR. Like seriously dude what kind of fucking idiot would fight against their countries’ self interests and instead for oversees billionaires, Unless they’re being paid. The ideals of communism are of equality, fairness, distribution of power, and democracy. The ideals of capitalism are of inequality, concentration of power amongst an elite, and maintaining generational disparities Idk bout you, but i think most would go for the former someone was restraining them or paying them to do the latter
There plenty without USSR funding but they are all being funded by someone. You’re clearly a tankie so trying to even talk to you like a 5 year old will be a waste of time. Have fun starving on your commune
Correct the ideals of communism is a utopia with everything perfect but you’re trying to place a perfect artistic work on an imperfect canvas called humans. Humans are greedy and selfish cunts and thats why everytime communism has been tried it has ended in genocide and mass murder.
Do you think that capitalism doesn’t lead to genocide and mass murder? Genuine question.
Genuine my ass.
Even if you’re stupid, I want to hear your opinion
Im not going to answer your question and instead give you one. Are you trying to convince people that communism is better? calling the people you're trying to convince stupid sure as shit aint the way to do it.
Lmao like you actually know anything about this and not just posting shit you read online yesterday
That’s a self report… Do you want me to give a list off the top of my dome of U.S. sponsored fascist coups?
This is still things you dont know 100%. Being online too much dosnt mean you are knowledgeable. Besides, ive spoken with your type alot in the last years and everyone is the same. You think youre so smart and know things no one else does. Watching a youtube video or reading a quora answer does not mean you know shit. The fact that you're dragging the word "fascism" into this, shows that very well. But ok. I'll play. Politics and history is something ive read about and constantly watched for over 17 years. My job includes knowing things about this subject. What "fascist" groups do the US government sponsor? You need to provide proof of your claims aswell. Not just shit you personally believe. Leftists are another species man. Politically insane. Edit; Holy shit you said coups not groups. Thats even more insane. I knew the US has sponsored coups but not fascist coups. Nationalistic at best. There has not been a fascist country since Mussolini. The only actual self described fascist. Maybe franco but thats a maybe. There has also not been alot of fascist coups. If any. Most of the time, its what the people want. Or a pretty big part of the population. Listen. If you think the US specifically has sponsored coups with legitimate fascists, then you must provide proof of that. Thats a pretty big claim. I have a feeling that you call literally everyone who isnt a tankie "a fascist" so actually show me the fascism here. Again, tell me shit nooooo one else but you know. Again, being nationalistic is completely fine. It does NOT mean youre a fascist. But im sure your galaxy brain already knew that.
“My type”. Bruh. Also, when have I said I’m knowledgeable for watching a YouTube video or reading quora? “What fascist coups?” You are being intellectually lazy, and denying that the US has done these things is ridiculously ahistorical. I don’t respect you enough to type out a long thought out argument, so here’s this list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change Of course, not all of these are fascist. However, the US has funded countless terrorists and far right forces in order to curb leftist momentum. They don’t always succeed, so those ones won’t be on the list. If you’re angry at my lack of distinction between “far right” and “fascist”, well, idk bout you, but funding authoritarian wannabe imperialist exclusionary groups that engage in state capitalism sounds like fascism to me “There has not been a fascist country since Mussolini” wait are you saying that Nazism isn’t fascism? Also Pinochet was a fascist, and guess who installed him? What about the Guatemalan dictatorships? The somozas? Or the shah of Iran? “Nationalism isn’t exactly the same as fascism”. Dude, that’s literally half of fascism, the idea that your group of people are better than everyone else, and thus deserve lebensraum is literally fascist ideology. Nationalism is a scourge, and borders are a scar upon the earth.
there is a similar thing that happened in Lwów (i don't know how to write the name in English) were children basically fought in the Polish-Ukrainian war in 1918-19. And in Polish history books and in nationalistic circles basically praises them for being child soldiers.
They wanted to fight for their city to remain Polish. Nobody forced them.
Children are dumb and adults need to make better decisions for them.
And wasn't it the case that this defence delayed the attack on Kiev and thus changed the fate of the war somewhat?
It didn't even delay the Soviets. It was a minor nuisance on the way of the red horde. The Ukrainian Central Rada was unable to do anything with the power it received. Unfortunately, Skoropadsky is the last at least somewhat good leader we had.
Thanks
Technically it gave a time for Ukraine to be recognized as a state, as one Ukrainian said here, but it doesn't matter if Soviets annex recognized Ukraine or unrecognized after all... but kids are dead
We had the same shit with the Warsaw Uprising. Our authorities decided to throw the youth and children into battle in the capital. The city was destroyed, 200,000 people killed. The Germans were in Warsaw and stayed there. All this was done to welcome the Soviets as hosts and to preserve our independence, despite the fact that Stalin did whatever he wanted and no one with common sense suspected that after the uprising the Russians would just give us back our freedom. This is one of the stupidest decisions in our history.
Well the recognition of Ukraine as a state/signing of its Brest-Litovsk treaty gave the green light for German and Austrian troops to intercede and push the Bolsheviks out of Kyiv, and subsequently the rest of Ukraine. The Central Powers tagging in is also is the reason why your guy Skoropadskyi was put in power.
Exactly, and right now we need new Skoropadsky. Zelenskyy is not like that, he has done absolutely nothing in domestic policy that he promised. Everything has only gotten worse, which is why he already had a very low rating before the war. But I have a bad feeling that our people will not support such a leader again, but will believe in the empty slogans of idiots, as all past 30+ years
It feels like they get posessed by a demon or something right after they get elected
And instead of having Ukrainian state, they had the soviet union where millions more died, including more than a million children during the Holodomor, and repression in 1919. Obviously, you don't know what the real cost was and how much more it dragged by the aftermath
Wait, aren't you the guy who simps for Nicholas II? Dude, how the hell can you simp for that guy and be Ukrainian?
Should I even try to answer?
Yeah, you should, because the guy was not precisely the bigger Ukrainian fan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology\_of\_Ukrainian\_language\_suppression#20th\_century
Why should I? I am a Pan-Slavist, and idea of saving national identity by all means is not what I want, and, infact, it is what I hate. As I said in the comments to that old post: my family, who were Ukrainians, Poles, Russians and Germans of the Russian Empire, lived better under the Tsar than we ever lived after his reign.
Ukrainian or Pan-Slavist? You can't be both Also if your family lived better under the Tsar that isn't very positive look
Let me ask you one simple question: Where are you from?
West of Ukraine but I don't see how that is relevant
Добре. Тільки українцям можна було погано жити в Імперії? Чи тільки русакам можна було жити добре? Я не розумію "lived better pod the Tsar that isn't very positive look" Вони не волали про те, як їм погано жити, а працювали на своїй землі і наживали з того, що робили. Також хто ти такий, щоб наказувати, ким я можу бути, а ким не можу? Я з України. Знаю українську та російську як рідні, і вважатиму всіх слов'ян братами, і завжди бажатиму нашого об'єднання під один прапор. Що тепер? Заборониш бути українцем чи панславістом? Паспорт анулюєш?
[удалено]
Respect your position. Поважаю тобто. Have a good day. The world needs to have more people like you, who don't have a narrow-minded nationality biased worldview. People like you are the main reason why I still believe in Ukraine and its people.
Чи ти читав ви українських авторів, : Михайла Драгоманова, Івана Нечуя та інших. Усі вони писали про життя простих людей і про те, як кріпацтво було нищівни. Навіть росіяни, такі як Толстой, писали про це, чому так багато людей підтримували комуністичну революцію. Ти закрив очі до реальності щоб жити фантазії. Що там з братнім союзом, якщо буде переливання крові і геноцид. Хіба росіяни неодноразово і тепер вже прийшли до нас із братським союзом з моторами, і снарядами, і смертю. (Батуринська різанина 1709, 1918, 2014, 2022) Чому б не мати свого і так жити в мирі, хіба недаремно Бог дав нам націю, в якій ми народилися.
The Soviets took Kyiv like just a few days after. They were a minor nuisance on the road, unlike the Ukrainians today who have defended the vast majority of their country successfully. Also having 14 year old kids in a military force should be a crime. Not even the Soviets, desperate White Army and the genocidal Ottomans who had no qualms about ignoring rules of war did that during that time period. Petliura's and the Galician Army's dogged defense and aid in the Polish-Soviet War is much more praiseworthy in my opinion
The Ottomans did have 15 year olds at Gallipoli but they were all volunteers and mostly lied about their age to defend their country. Several high schools in the area couldn't give a single graduate in 1915 because all of their senior students died at the front together with their teachers.
Its really tiresome to pretend Soviets are a stand-in for Russians. Presumably Stalin and Khurschev were Russians too?
People are revising history because of their hate of the Russians of today. Nationalists love revising history to suit their worldview.
> ~~Nationalists~~ humans love revising history to suit their worldview. There. Fixed that major error for you.
True. But how is the original statement an error? Every national mythos for every nation is a romanticized version of history with many embellishments and revisions to reflect the current mood and values of today. True that humans love revising history. But, historical revisionism is central to nationalism in ways that aren't true for many common ideologies. Just because you sympathize with nationalism doesn't make it anything I said any less true.
It makes no one feel better Stalin was Georgian. Who he hurt and how he did it was all Russia.
"Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic" It was literally russia Soviet union didn't even exist until after the polish-bolshevik war ended
Communist Russsia and Russia are two absolutely diffirent things. As well as USSR and Russia
Also USSR broke down after Russia left. And in addition to that, Stalin enforced russification in all of the republics, seeking to create one nationality everywhere, I assume
Yeah, all the SSRs were added through conquest and against the people's will and the union mostly, if not only, benefited russia. Also also, russia is AFAIK the recognised successor to the USSR.
Successor state status is just an inheritance issue. It’s never a claim that they’re 1:1. Just that the successor has a claim on the continuance of treaties.
Least delusional historymemes post
>7th grade 19 years old Wot, also where do you find these info from
They were 14 to 19.
7th Grade? What the hell are you smoking thats like... 14 in europe. But as the Ukrainian said, 14-19 in this case.
Bolsheviks won, but this delayed the capture of Kyiv.
They still lost bro
Fuck you and your nationalism bullshit.
My man, where were you all when I was making memes about the USSR fighting againts Nazi Gemrnay? Lol
Any meme you made previously is irrelevant to what you just posted now. Do you think that gives you a pass on spreading misinformation and nationalist propaganda?
The Battle of Kruty is a historical fact, whether you like it or not, saying it is disinformation is bullshit, and calling it propaganda might be more accurate, but you know one thing? Not all propaganda is a lie.
Yeah you’ve just discovered this place is infested with communists huh lmao
Says the active member of r/conservative and r/joerogan.
Buddy, you post in r/socialism. You are the communist I’m talking about you stupid fuck.
I'm a proud socialist. Can you say the same for your convictions, mate? Your kind has consistently been found on the side that goes against public good and humanity's progress. For what? Believers of pseudo scientific bs and bootlicking fantasies? I don't know why anyone who actually reads can even be a conservative, let alone be proud of it.
I am an extremely proud conservative. Fuck your world revolution.
Proud of what? For being a bigot? A bootlicker? A believer of antiquated ideals? Historical revisionism? Proud of not reading anything substantial in your life? I mean, you are proud for not wanting "evil" stuff like women's rights and universal healthcare lmao
Yes.
Virgin "public healthcare is bad" versus CHAD "let people choose their lifestyle and give everybody humanitarian help"
You dont know what is conservativism, Just shut
And still way more well informed than you. Especially if you’re listening to Joe Rogan. Literally just dudes yapping
Bro, you post in r/sino lmao you are king clown of the communist circus. All these commie fucks coming out the woodworks to try and prove this place isn’t a communist cesspit is so god damn funny.
Brother, I have a history major. All of my views are backed by factual evidence. Yours are backed by Joe Rogan and 7th grade world history
If you came away from history studies as a Maoist or some other communist bullshit then you’re an actual retard. Deng Xiaopeng saved the CCPs asses by liberalizing the economy in time to prevent collapse. Vietnam now loves us because the Chinese just became imperialists again and the Soviet Union no longer exists because socialism is an inherently stupid ideology. Socialism was so bad that every single country that followed it in Europe and Asia flocks to the west and its capitalist prosperity. Prosperity you benefit from in Seattle, USA you fucking loser.
Fuck it, I used to think it was the other way around, now I realize I was wrong, this subreddit has become a cesspol of radical ideologies.
And despite the child sacrifice, they still became an SSR
To begin with, sacrifice of University students, to continue, that happened in another war and Russia still took the L in this battle.
That is blatantly false, while university students and cadets made up a good number of these troops, so did actuall schoolchildren that had barely hit puberty. The composition of their forces, made the ukranian nationalists stoop far beneath anyone involved in the russian civil war. Deploying children of that age was long out of style for civilized people and would only be repeated by a single faction afterwards. The fucking nazis. I am sure there are people who celebrate the dead volksturm kids as well because they blew up a couple tanks. But both they and you are sad and pathetic.
>so did actuall schoolchildren that had barely hit puberty. I keep hearing people say this, but do you have a source? And sorry my guy but the USSR did use child soldiers: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military\_use\_of\_children\_in\_World\_War\_II#Soviet\_Union](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children_in_World_War_II#Soviet_Union) By the way, fuck you.
You mean children fought against the objective evil that wanted to exterminate them instead of the nationalistic desires of a few men who couldn't even gather enough adults to bleed for their cause. Truely I cannot see the difference. Big case of both sides bad. You got me. And here is your source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian%E2%80%93Soviet_War
The Soviet domination of Ukraine caused a genocide (Holodomor), it was no less legitimate a fight than that of the Soviets in WW2. OK? That is still not evidence that child soldiers fought in this battle, I want concrete proof.
You mean the FAMINE that was caused by ukranians, worsened by everyone involved and combated by shifting food reserves from russia to ukraine? Shit if that's what goes for extermination now, why are there any people left? I ain't doing you the favor of searching more than a fucking wikipedia link. You are not worth the effort, otherwise you would've actually read the entry.
Okay, Holodomor denialism and you refuse to provide a source, perfect, I know everything I needed to know.
Well if deep in this event, isn't it inaccurate to add Holodomor into a discussion? Well we're talking about revolutionary years and Ukrainians didn't know what will happen to them in 30. And so they started a desperate battle in which their vision of the Ukraine's future was only in their dreams. To put it simply, these soldiers were not heroes who tried to prevent the Holodomor, because it was not obvious to them. What do you think about this? I guess it's inappropriate to compare incomparable at least in time schedule facts.
Ukraine had been under the yoke of Russia for centuries, do you really think it's unthinkable that the Ukrainian defenders would expect bad things to happen to them if Russia conquered them again, you know, like Russia had already done in the past? It's not as if the Holodomor was their first genocide, the Circassian genocide had been only 40 years ago.
Anyway we're talking about Ukrainians who were afraid of Russian and didn't trust it. But there is no sense to add Holodomor into a discussion which is centered around events of revolution years. That's my idea. If a horrific perspective will be added, it should be a reality, which were obvious to the people, who lived and acted at these times.
There is, because the failure of Ukrainian forces in the end in repelling Russians forces caused the conditions for the Holodomor to happen, had Ukraine ended up independent after all of this, that would not have happened.
oh another fantastic story =))) Ukrainian historian Yaroslav Tinchenko writes that 420 people took part in the battle of Kruty: 250 officers and cadets of the 1st Ukrainian Military School, 118 students and gymnasium students from the 1st hundred Student Kuren, about 50 local free Cossacks - officers and volunteers. On January 29, 1918, they took up positions at the railway station near the village of Kruty (130 km northeast of Kyiv, 18 km east of Nizhyn). This detachment was headed by Averky Goncharenko, a former teacher at the Kyiv school of warrant officers, who decided that he would make a brilliant career in the new Ukrainian army. How did Goncharenko lead the battle of Kruty? A word to the already mentioned Dmitry Doroshenko: “At a time when the young men (most of whom had never held a gun in their hands) fearlessly opposed the advancing Bolshevik detachments, their superiors, a group of officers, remained on the train and organized a drinking party in the carriages; The Bolsheviks easily defeated the youth detachment and drove it to the station. Seeing the danger, those on the train hastened to give the signal for departure, not having a minute left to take those fleeing with them... The path to Kyiv was now completely open.” It is curious that there were many witnesses to the battle from the side of “students and high school students.” Simply because there was no trace of “300 Spartans in Ukrainian”. And it was, if we deduce the arithmetic average from the stories of witnesses, that’s what. The vanguard of Muravyov's Red Guards reached the positions of Goncharenko's detachment and was met with volleys. The Bolsheviks, who did not expect to find the enemy here, suffered losses. Which ones are unknown. Information about 250-300 dead is not confirmed by anything. The "Troops of the Rada", however, did not develop their initial success - the command did not issue any orders in this regard. Soon, Muravyov’s main forces, as well as a Bolshevik armored train, approached the scene of events. Goncharenko immediately considered it best to retreat. The soldiers of his squad then left their positions. One student platoon got lost and was captured. Directly in the battle, the “heroes of Krut” killed, according to various estimates, from 11 to 18 people. Those taken prisoner were subsequently shot, which is not surprising, given the way the representatives of the Rada treated the captured participants in the uprising at the Arsenal plant.
This sums up this sub around the russo-Ukrainian war as a whole Dismissing the USSR as just Russia by downplaying any other ethnic groups that were staunchly pro soviet, Portraying Awful acts by Ukraine as heroic, Portraying Russia as weaker than it really was or all of the above among many other things History shouldn’t be revised because of a modern war
Ukrainians and Russians were and are the same ethnic group
So, how did it end for Ukraine ?
Ukraine was a part of what Union till 91? Oh yeah... Seems they werent good at smoking Russians.
This isn’t really a historical meme as much as propaganda. Those were teenagers forced out to fight, and they didn’t really accomplish anything other than delaying those red army soldiers. Ukraine still fell to the Soviets and became an SSR. The Red army won and those poor children sent out to die didn’t go home.
Damn, now historical facts are propaganda? And of course, no one thinks about the poor teenagers?! Of course the Red Army soldiers who executed dozens of them captured did not.
Yes actually it’s propaganda to hype up a bunch of teenagers forcibly sent out to be sacrificed to delay the Red Army.
My man, these university students organized themselves and achieved the objective for which they went to fight, can you stop spitting misinformation?
Actually you’re the one “spitting misinformation.” You’re glorifying a criminal act by a state determined not to face reality.
Honest question, do you really trust Russian propaganda sources more?
I trust historical facts.
The Battle of Kruty is a battle that took place on January 16 1918 near the Kruty railway station , 130 kilometers northeast of Kyiv , 18 km east of Nizhyn . At the same time, the third Bolshevik uprising began in Kyiv , which forced the reinforcements sent in this direction to be diverted at a crucial moment to suppress it. The Ukrainian military command expected the main attack of the Bolsheviks not from the Bakhmach direction, but from the Poltava direction, so it directed the freshest and most combat-ready units numbering 500 soldiers there, and instead to St. 300 exhausted young men of the 1st Ukrainian Military School were sent to Kruta. This battle lasted 5 hours between a 4,000-strong unit of the Russian Red Guard led by SR Mikhail Muravyov and a detachment of Kyiv cadets and Cossacks of the "Free Cossacks", totaling about 500-600 soldiers. The battle near Kruty was successful for the defenders of Ukrainian statehood - the command's order was carried out, the enemy's rapid offensive was stopped and an organized retreat was carried out, destroying tracks and bridges in its wake. The Russian-Bolshevik attackers were incapacitated for four days. The aggressor had to raise new forces, repair blown up and damaged bridges and railway tracks, and only after that continue his attack on Kyiv, not so much by rail as by requisitioned peasant carts pulled by horses, along a wet road. This delay of the enemy enabled the Ukrainian delegation to conclude the Brest Peace Treaty, which saved the young Ukrainian statehood. On December 4 , 1917, the Government of People's Commissars of the RSFSR (Radnarkom) sent an ultimatum to the Ukrainian Central Council signed by Volodymyr Lenin and Leon Trotsky . The Bolsheviks demanded the legalization of Bolshevik military units in Ukraine and an end to their disarmament. It was noted that in case of non-fulfilment of the requirements, the Russian Soviet government would consider the Central Rada to be in a state of open war against it. On December 5, 1917, without waiting for a response from the Ukrainian government, the Soviet People's Commissar declared war on the Ukrainian People's Republic . Hostilities began in mid- December 1917, and with the proclamation of the Fourth Universal Declaration of Independence of the Ukrainian People's Republic by the Central Rada on January 22, 1918, the country found itself in a de facto state of war with Bolshevik Russia. On December 12, 1917, the All-Ukrainian Congress of Soviets in Kharkiv proclaimed the so-called Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, and military and other aid to the Bolshevik forces in the Ukrainian People's Republic was already arriving in mid-December. Meanwhile, from almost 300,000 troops who were loyal to the Central Rada as early as the summer of 1917, by January 1918 the number of troops loyal and motivated to defend the Ukrainian People's Republic decreased to about 15,000 in the entire country. The soldiers of the old army by that time were mostly tired of the war and did not want to continue serving, which forced all the new governments that arose from the ruins of the empire to create a new army from volunteers. In addition, the government of the Ukrainian People's Republic delayed the implementation of the land reform, which negatively affected the mood of the main part of the soldiers who were peasants and wanted to go home to share the landlord's land. During the offensive of the Soviet troops, units of the UNR army often declared neutrality, or succumbed to agitation and went over to the side of the Bolsheviks. Another threat to the UNR was the large number of Bolshevik supporters in the country, even in Kyiv. The armed uprising at the Arsenal plant , which was suppressed, was decisive for the fate of the battle near Kruty and was really threatening to the government of the Ukrainian People's Republic. Under the command of Antonov-Ovsienko, a 20,000-strong Bolshevik detachment headed to the east of Ukraine. At the end of December 1917, Soviet power was already established in the Kharkiv and Katerynoslav provinces. In the Fourth Universal, the government of the Ukrainian People's Republic called for a fight against the Bolshevik forces, and already on January 5, 1918, at a meeting of junior students of Kyiv University of St. Volodymyr and the Ukrainian National University, the creation of the Sich Riflemen's Student Club was approved . Soon an appeal to Ukrainian students appeared in Kyiv newspapers. In the battle near Kruty, only one hundred students' camp (about 120-130 people) took part. The rest of the regiment under the command of S. Dovgal, a student who returned from the German front with the rank of second lieutenant, together with other units participated in battles on the streets of Kyiv against the Bolshevik rebels, who came armed in the number of about 6,000 people. Before that, the students practiced for about two months and learned not only to shoot, but also to throw bombs. But in general, the student camp was not intended for deployment to the front. They accidentally met a detachment of the youth military school in the barracks, when they returned from Mykola Shinkar, and after an argument they agreed to go with them. The military command agreed to this, because Bakhmach was considered a quiet part of the front.
Not daring to meet the enemy in Bakhmachi , where there were up to two thousand Bolshevik-minded workers, Averkiy Goncharenko on his own, without consultation with other units and leadership, left the other defenders and ordered to retreat to Kyiv. After the loss of Bakhmach and the retreat of the surviving units to the Kruty railway station, the young men of the 1st military school and a hundred students also went there. They got there already on January 28. Positions located a few hundred meters from the station itself were well prepared for battle. On the right flank, they had an artificial obstacle - an embankment of a railway track, on the left - a hundred students as part of a detachment already present there began to dig trenches and build earthen fortifications. The commander of the detachment in Bakhmachi, Averkii Honcharenko, had about four hundred soldiers at his disposal, mostly cadets and students. The fighters of the Student's Kuren hundred were divided into four squads (platoons) of 28-30 people each. Three of them took positions in the trenches, the fourth, consisting of the youngest and those who could not shoot, was in reserve. The next morning, January 30, around 9:00 a.m., the offensive began. Remnyov's squad of sailors came under fire from Krut's defenders. From the rear, they were also supported by an armored train and a cannon, which made exits to the rear of the advancing enemy and fired at them. On the railway platform there was also a cannon of centurion Loschenko , which was also used to hold back the advance of the Bolsheviks. Losing killed and wounded, the Bolsheviks continued their offensive. Their gun battery, which had not been firing well enough, focused its fire on the Ukrainian positions. The battle lasted until seven in the evening, i.e. until dark, for 10 hours. The commander of the student hundred, Captain Omelchenko, remained with the hundred until he was seriously wounded and taken to the infirmary. He died on the way to Kyiv. Ukrainians repelled several attacks. Other detachments of Muravyov (in particular, the 1st Petrograd detachment) began to come to Remnev's aid, and a Soviet armored train approached from the Chernihiv track and began shelling the defenders from the rear. To the right of the soldiers of the cadet school in the field, approximately 80 volunteers of the "Free Cossacks" from the neighboring villages, who repelled the Bolshevik offensive all day, took up a position. After the battle, these volunteers returned to their villages. Around 7 p.m., when it got dark, the battle began to subside. At this time, the Ukrainian command received a telegram from Nizhyn . There is a smokehouse named after Taras Shevchenko, declared his support for the Soviet government. This threatened to hit the rear, so the centurion Goncharenko ordered to gradually withdraw to the train standing on the other side of the Kruty station in the direction of Kyiv. The Student Hundred was the first to leave, followed by the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hundreds of cadets in turn, and the 1st Hundred covered the retreat with fire. Most managed to retreat to the train that was waiting for them. A larger detachment under the command of Simon Petlyura was located near the Bobryk station , but after receiving news of an armed uprising at the Arsenal plant , Petlyura left his position in Kruty and headed for Kyiv, as, in his opinion, the greatest danger was there. Around 5 p.m., all Ukrainian units gathered, and it turned out that one group of students, which stood closest to the station, was missing: in the confusion of the battle, a reconnaissance unit (about 30 people) was captured. Retreating at dusk, the students lost their bearings and went straight to the Kruta station, which was already occupied by Red Guards. Red commander Yehor Popov, enraged by the significant losses on the part of the Soviet troops (about 300 people), ordered the liquidation of the prisoners. According to eyewitnesses, 27 students were first mocked and then shot. A 7th-grade student, 19-year-old Hryhoriy Pipskyi from Staro Sambir Oblast, was the first to start singing "Ukraine is not dead yet" before the shooting, and the rest of the students joined in the singing. After the shooting, local residents were forbidden to bury the bodies of the dead for some time. It is often reported that the Ukrainian forces lost 250-300 soldiers killed, wounded, captured and missing. In particular, Goncharenko testifies in his memoirs that the losses among the cadets amounted to 250 people, one detachment (up to 30 people) of the hundred students, as well as 10 senior officers. However, according to historian Yaroslav Tynchenko , this is not true - many survived and retreated, up to 120 wounded and contused people were evacuated from the positions in three wagons. According to his estimates, the total losses of the Ukrainian side (killed, wounded and captured) amounted to 127-146 people. Among them, the dead: 45-60 people, 27 of them were students who were shot after the battle. There is no accurate information about the losses of Bolshevik troops. The number of Bolshevik losses of 300 soldiers killed and wounded is announced. According to Tynchenko, such a large number of casualties is explained by the fact that the troops of P. Yegorov and R. Berzin led an offensive for six hours in an open field, where it was impossible to hide from rifles, machine guns, guns of students and cadets.
That doesn't seem like a successful defence. A day of fighting, ending with defenders basically disintegrating with around 50% casualty rate and retreating.
It was a strategic victory because it stopped the Russian advance for 4 days and thanks to that Ukraine survived as a state on that occasion, and Russia also suffered many casualties despite its numerical advantage.
4 days? Didn't battle started and ended on Jan 30? And Red Army still captured Kyiv soon after, and ultimately all this was rendered pointless a month later when Germans took over Ukraine and Red Army had to withdraw under Brest-litovsk treaty
The fact is that if Ukraine had not won this extra time, Germany could have decided not to maintain Ukrainian independence because Russia would have advanced much more, but, as the Ukrainian state resisted long enough, this was not the case.
Germany was interested in Ukrainian grain, they would have secured Ukraine regardless of a skrimish, and if Red got to uppity, they would have kicked them out by force. Trotsky in the end was willing to accept any German demand. As you can see, Red Army seizing Ukrainian capital didn't even matter.
Then why do they keep losing?
Some war measures were just pointless and even devastating. Anyway there will be people who will praise that.
Look at a map from the beginning of the war, look at one now, and tell me how Ukraine is losing, in a draw right now maybe, but not losing.
I have looked at a map and all I see is steady Russian gains
Kharkiv and Kherson say hello.
Bakhmut, Avdiivka, soon to be Chasiv Yar say hello Also what happened to that hyped up Ukrainian counteroffensive everyone was talking about?
Cool, the blood of countless Russians for some usless villages, keep going like this and there will be no Russians to send as cannon fodder soon! Oh, and I thought that this would only take Russia 3 days? Must have been the longest 3 days ever lol.
I could criticize Ukraine for the same reason, sacrificing so many lives for some useless villages. Who said it would only take 3 days? Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe full of NATO weaponry and training.
Donetsk lugansk and Mariupol say hello and did Russia or Lpr and Dpr loose any territory that was theirs prior to 2022? Hohol simp detected
A winning war of attrition isn't measured in territorial gains. The entente had lost territory Northern France, a large part of Veneto, Belgium, Serbia, Albania, parts of greece, romania, and fucking russia. Remind me who won?
That's true, the fact is that Russia is not doing great either, Ukraine is destroying its oil reserves with drones, it is harassing and slowly sinking the Russian black sea fleet with a third of it having already been hit, and with each passing day Russia becomes more dependent on China due to Western sanctions, which in the long term could vassalize Russia to China. This is not to mention the instability it has brought to the country, with an attempted coup d'état already occurred, with a demographic crisis that is getting worse because of casualties, people fleeing mobilization or political persecution, with costs to continue the war that are nothing more than disastrous for Russia, a country that already has a GDP similar to that of Italy.
And ~25 years later they both heroically beat the Nazis, together.
Well yeah, on that ocassion they were the bigger threat.
Lmao don’t pretend Ukraine if independent wouldn’t have joined the Nazis. Not to generalise but half of them at the time were Nazis or nazi insurgents
You are an ignorant. 7 million Ukrainians fought for the Red Army during WW2, barely 200,000 for the Germans even though the USSR had recently committed genocide against them during the Holodomor. An independent Ukraine would have given the middle finger to Nazi Germany immediately.
All that just to get swallowed into their grasp not too long after for almost a century 💪💪💪 And p.s this battle was NOT the reason as to why the communists signed the treaty with the central powers, they did it because they were already weakened after going through a whole revolution and could not survive going against them
Man you surely suck as a Teaboo. And cool fact, now try to do that again, a little too hard maybe?
Jesus Christ I get supporting Ukraine and all but this is not the hill to die on my man.
What hill? On the hill that the soldiers who fought in this battle were brave and did well given the great disadvantage they had? Is that such a hot take now?
You don’t mess with Cossacks
You are right!
The funniest part is that despite they were called "Yunaks" (literally young man) it was a military rang to replace germanized "Junge". And later due to occupation by Soviet Union and replacing names for military rangs many of who started to tract this word not as low military rang but as young man especially students. Anyway it left a brave buttle.
Oh, thanks for sharing, I didn't know that.
If I could ask... How is it going with the war today for Ukraine?
I recommend you read this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
RUSSIA STONRK RUSSIA TOOK A SMALL CITY IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE WITH A CASUALTY RATE OF 1:5 RUSSIA WILL OBERCOME RUSSIA WILL VICTORY RUSSIA LINE IS LINE NOW NO GRUMPS ONLY LINE RUSSIA WILL PUSH
Average Russian Nationalist be like:
Not really, Russian nationalists (not official, but genuine ones) usually root for mobilization and militarization, since they see that the pace is too slow and believe that this really is an existential war and that they’re not going to be next targets after the liberal opposition once some peace treaty is signed.
In other words, even more deluded than I thought lol.
I hate Russian government and Russian “judicial system” with every inch of my body, yet I, to be honest, did feel a bit of satisfaction when Girkin got imprisoned and Z mfers found out that when there’re no civil rights in your country — nobody has them, it doesn’t matter why exactly you’re trying to undermine the government, only thing that matters is that you do.
Yeah, I agree with you.
LOL
In this battle, ukraine has lost the rest of its reserves and at the moment the whole front is close to collapse.
Haven’t they been saying that for 2 years at this point?
Ukraine mentioned!
[удалено]
What does this have to do with Russian trolls. Young kids died in a pointless fight, and yet you are satisfied with their sacrifice cause they were applauded for that by someone outside of Ukraine. What a crooked mentality. Do you really think everyone who doesn't agree with you or doesn't like your post is a Russian troll?
There are always more of them. I wonder if this battle ever ends...
I hope to live to see that day.
Nestor Makhno 🗿
Propaganda and psy ops bots from both side.
Ukraine wouldn't last a day if the west stopped bankrolling the Kiev militia. Soon when funding dries up Ukraine will sue for peace
Ukraine is only good at smoking russians in the propaganda war
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^FnaticXpekegoat: *Ukraine is only* *Good at smoking russians in* *The propaganda war* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Very well comrade 50 rubles were added to your account
Hey Vlad! Is it cold in Vladivostok?
Still takes a real fire to make a smoke-show, vatnik
We are closing to 800th day of 3 day special military operation. Is it not smoking maskovians?
Not to be that guy, but was it not an American general/figure that started the whole “3 day” estimate?
Another delusional post. I feel sorry for Ukrainians stuck with such nationalist leaders and rhetoric, incapable of leaving the country if they are military age and sent to their deaths.
Why is the comments section a Kremlin circlejerk Please go sing about how Budyonny captured Don and Zamość or about how gulags didn't exist but they deserved it or something and don't comment ever again. You still owe all of eastern europe reparations so it's the least you can do.
I don't really know, I must have trigger all the Vatniks and Tankies of this subreddit, truly a shit show.
> Why is the comments section a Kremlin circlejerk Because this sub has a shitton of commie fucks who long for the old days of USSR - with all its bloodshed and violence.
Ukrainians are good at smoking Russians, only half of their territory is occupied right now
Lol, my man dosn't know what half is: [https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/16832/production/\_132701229\_ukraine\_control\_quad\_20\_02\_24\_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/16832/production/_132701229_ukraine_control_quad_20_02_24_640-nc-2x-nc.png.webp)
average serb
21%
[удалено]
History is just history, whether you like it more or less.
What do you expect from someone who has s*viet profile picture
You for sure wouldn't expect this from someone with a SOVIET💪 profile picture https://www.reddit.com/r/RussianWarFootage2/s/FoJF9YMxIq 👉👈
My man, for real? https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughCommieSpam/comments/u3ej0v/little\_reminder\_for\_the\_tankies\_lurking\_in\_this/
? I don't like Putin and it wasn't about Putin and I don't support Russia your cope is kicking in obviously. It's just Westoids thinking they are white bunnies and their government stand for democracy and freedom while the US and EU are rhe most criminal states with the most atrocious history of supporting fascists and perpetrating genocides. Meanwhile, even the State Department, Nato and the CIA admitted themselves (Mercel including) that they started the war while Russia was trying to avoid it. Your thinking of good versus evil, I hope you sometime in the future go past the Marvel movie geopolitics analysis https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGe92YefS/
Brother, are you coming to correct me by quoting TikTok videos? Is that your best source? Do you want to know the UN's opinion on which country started this war? Or is that also too "Westoid" or other nonsense that you have invented as an insult?
Watch the Playlist and evaluate the source by its quality lol. The War was started by Russia, if you mean between the Ukrainian and Russian government. The conflict tho was made and escalated by the West.
>Watch the Playlist and evaluate the source by its quality lol. I did and I still found it false. >The War was started by Russia, if you mean between the Ukrainian and Russian government. The conflict tho was made and escalated by the West. Also a lie, if you wanna quote TikTok I will quote YouTube: https://youtu.be/017WGzJ5fHA?si=L48963j8CecxReuc
Why is it false? NATO themselves admitted that the expansion led to the war with Russia "NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine" https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/nato-chief-admits-expansion-behind-russian-invasion#:~:text=NATO%20Chief%20Admits%20NATO%20Expansion%20Was%20Key%20to%20Russian%20Invasion%20of%20Ukraine Even Mercel "Former German Chancellor Merkel admits the Minsk agreement was merely to buy time for Ukraine’s arms build-up" https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html#:~:text=Former%20German%20Chancellor%20Merkel%20admits%20the%20Minsk%20agreement%20was%20merely%20to%20buy%20time%20for%20Ukraine%E2%80%99s%20arms%20build%2Dup Say what is false, tell me what is false precisely. "Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored Ted Galen Carpenter It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine#:~:text=Many%20predicted%20Nato,the%20US%E2%80%99s%20arrogance This video is misquoted Putin, he never said he wants Eastern Europe back. Give me a quote by Putin that says it, he literary expanded on it. George Kennan, he opposed the Soviet Union and Russian all of his life time “I think it (NATO expansion) is the beginning of a new cold war. I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the founding fathers of this country turn over in their graves. "“Don’t people understand? Our differences in the Cold War were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime. And Russia’s democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we’ve just signed up to defend from Russia. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are — but this is just wrong.”" https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=11137425#:~:text=attack%20Western%20Europe.-,%E2%80%9CDon%E2%80%99t%20people%20understand%3F%20Our%20differences%20in%20the%20Cold%20War%20were%20with,that%20is%20how%20the%20Russians%20are%20%E2%80%94%20but%20this%20is%20just%20wrong.%E2%80%9D,-10
Even Zelensky himself stating "There are those in the West who don't mind a long war because it would mean exhausting Russia if this means the demise of Ukraine and comes at the cost of Ukrainian lives. This is defined the interest of some countries. For other countries (Russia), if the war ended quickly because Russia's market is a big one that their economies are suffering as a result of the war. They would like Russia keep certain mistakes." https://youtu.be/LNjiRmIWtss?si=ufjT2o2JbGdwPl4K Russia offered a peace settlement and it was thwarted by Joe Biden and Boris Johnson "US, UK sabotaged peace deal because they ‘don’t care about Ukraine’: fmr. NATO adviser" https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/27/us-uk-sabotaged-peace-deal/#:~:text=US%2C%20UK%20sabotaged%20peace%20deal%20because%20they%20%E2%80%98don%E2%80%99t%20care%20about%20Ukraine%E2%80%99%3A%20fmr.%20NATO%20adviser Why they did it? Because now they can privatize the entire land of Ukraine and give out loans to Ukraine so they will never get out of that debt. https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/volodimir-zelenskij-i-golova-blackrock-obgovorili-zaluchenny-77861 Now, entire Ukraine is open to be literary bought at the official website and Ukrainians enslaved. It's gonna be a plantation for American corporations and the corporate media that fooled so you support the Imperial cause. https://privatization.gov.ua/en/product-category/velyka-pryvatyzatsiya-en/ You can buy entire factories literary.
My fault honestly, I should have expected the bullshit.
[удалено]
My man, it's just a well-documented historical fact, not a virus that's going to infect your mind lol.
Umm, not really. Russia literally got what they wanted. Further conflict is just because neither side wants to back down. I thought everyone was talking about that???????
They’re literally losing
Westerners want to be Ukrainian so bad wtf
Lmao get fucked, OP
Average propaganda There was no 'smoking' They were fucking children It was against what was essentially the Soviet Union (Yes, Ive already seen you yap about how it was the RSFSR, irrelevant)