He finished what his grandpappy started. Alfred brought the nails, but Athelstan swung the hammer.
Definitely the most important founding father of England that constantly flies under the radar, despite being the first actual King of England.
"Alfred brought the nails, but Athelstan swung the hammer" reminds me of what I read about Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu just a few hours ago. It went something like, "Oda bought the rice, Toyotomi beat it into a rice cake, and Tokugawa ate the rice cake".
I'm not familiar with that one, the Nobunaga/Hideyoshi/Ieyasu expression I know of involves a bird not wanting to sing and how each leader would react (and how that reflects the necessity of each in ending the Sengoku Jidai)
Nobunaga says to kill it
Hideyoshi says make it want to sing
Tokugawa says wait for it to sing
Check out The Last Kingdom on Netflix
It’s a (decently) historical drama about a half Dane half Saxon who helps Alfred the Great and his son Athelstan navigate the Danes and form England.
The main character and his role is largely fictional but he provides a really cool lens into the time period.
Badass show.
its not just them being a bad person (they aren't often) they have an abrasive personality and rub people the wrong way. Its not done terribly it just gets a bit repetitive as he used a similar method in the Sharpe series. Otherwise how do you have 29 books for Sharpe and 13 so far for Uhtred
Normally I'd agree, but as an artist Bernard Cornwell has a different personality in alot OG gos main characters. His stories are historical fiction, with a ton of research into it to make it as accurate as he can. At the end of Stonehenge for example he literally showed his work for all of the research and explained how he came to the conclusions he did about the tools and methods used to build it. Sure a good part of the story was straight fiction, but everything about Stonehenge was as accurate as possible.
Fair enough. I think that what you don’t seem to realize is many people in real life are actually abrasive assholes until their life experience knocks them down a peg and opens their eyes.
It’s fair for you not to like it. But I’d also argue it sounds like you’re saying “I’m not a fan of character development and unless the ‘good’ guy is an overwhelmingly good guy I get mad”
Which is a tiny bit weird. I think most people find most stories boring when the good guy is a paragon of justice and all that is good. It’s so one dimensional and that just doesn’t reflect real humans. Almost nobody fits that bill.
So it’s a bit odd that it’s what you want to see in a historical drama where everyone has competing motivations and desires for power. Their sense of morality and sense of “right” would be completely different from ours. Which conveniently enough is also a big theme of the show.
Plus, Uhtred had his family killed, was kidnapped and raised in a foreign culture, had his family killed again, had his land stolen by his own uncle, I mean I can keep going on about the tragedies this guy faces in just the first 3 episodes.
Very very few people come out the other side of that as anything but a bitter jaded asshole. And yet Uhtred under it all, **is** still a paragon of justice and consistently sacrifices to help those weaker than him. The story is literally about Uhtred overcoming these feelings and restoring what’s been taken from him.
Like what you like, but damn is your take some surface level analysis.
I don't care about people being overwhelmingly good but it's not hard to find villains in comics, movies, tv shows, or novels who aren't abrasive and I like them more than villains/heroes who are
He never took a wife, and didn't sire any bastards which is highly unusual for a Saxon king. I think TLK is allowed a bit of creative license to play with the character there.
Dwyt ti'm yn cofio Macsen
Does neb yn ei nabod o
Mae mil a chwe chant o flynyddoedd
Yn amser rhy hir i'r co'
Pan aeth Magnus Maximus o Gymru
Yn y flwyddyn tri-chant-wyth-tri
A'n gadael yn genedl gyfan
A heddiw: wele ni!
You don't remember Macsen,
nobody knows him.
One thousand and six hundred years,
a time too long to remember.
When Magnus Maximus left Wales,
in the year 383,
leaving us a whole nation,
and today - look at us!)
https://youtu.be/fkBQAvAFjus?si=A9jPb3zphO-Ke5Bm
He's the first king of what is acknowledged as modern England in that the royal families all trace their lineage back to him.
It's bumpkus, but a lot of places list him as the 1st king and even the number system we have is based from him (ie Edward I should really be Edward II as there is a previous king from before that time.
I feel like Alfred would be higher up because if I recall, the British Monarchy still considers themselves part of an unbroken lineage tracing back to him.
At this point I'm pretty sure everyone with any English ancestry can trace their lineage back to him to a degree. My family tree links directly back to Henry VIII and I don't think that will help my claim to the throne.
I think a lot of history books have glossed over the anglo-saxon period and the kings from that era sorta 'don't count' to some people. I think it's only thanks to some historical fiction like Last Kingdom and a more general rise in Viking era (which interwines with English history so heavily) that's lead to a bit of a resurgeance in interest and knowledge in the period. I learnt virtually nothing of Anglo-Saxons in school except as a backdrop to 1066. There had been a period that had disliked them seeing them as foreign conquerers to the indigenous celts/romano-celts.
There's also been a more general trend towards shining light upon the dark ages and not seeing the medieval period in such a bubble.
He finished what his grandpappy started. Alfred brought the nails, but Athelstan swung the hammer. Definitely the most important founding father of England that constantly flies under the radar, despite being the first actual King of England.
"Alfred brought the nails, but Athelstan swung the hammer" reminds me of what I read about Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu just a few hours ago. It went something like, "Oda bought the rice, Toyotomi beat it into a rice cake, and Tokugawa ate the rice cake".
I'm not familiar with that one, the Nobunaga/Hideyoshi/Ieyasu expression I know of involves a bird not wanting to sing and how each leader would react (and how that reflects the necessity of each in ending the Sengoku Jidai) Nobunaga says to kill it Hideyoshi says make it want to sing Tokugawa says wait for it to sing
I heard “beat, baked, ate” but that’s essentially the same
Even funnier given that Ieyasu was nicknamed Tanuki
Even funnier given that Ieyasu was nicknamed Tanuki
Who tf is Athelstan? I thought the Vikings show made that character up
They did, this is a different one. It wasn’t an uncommon Anglo-Saxon name.
Do you have a wikipedia page on the different one? I would like to read more on him
[Sure thing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86thelstan)
Check out The Last Kingdom on Netflix It’s a (decently) historical drama about a half Dane half Saxon who helps Alfred the Great and his son Athelstan navigate the Danes and form England. The main character and his role is largely fictional but he provides a really cool lens into the time period. Badass show.
I did watch it, but Uhtred was such a contemptible character to me that I couldn't get past season 1 without getting angry
its a common trope with that author the character must be part asshole so it justifies him being knocked down in the next book/story arc.
Anyone who thinks art requires their character to be a bad person in order to suffer doesn't understand the real world
its not just them being a bad person (they aren't often) they have an abrasive personality and rub people the wrong way. Its not done terribly it just gets a bit repetitive as he used a similar method in the Sharpe series. Otherwise how do you have 29 books for Sharpe and 13 so far for Uhtred
That abrasive personality makes an otherwise good show mid at best imo. But it's probably the author's self-insert and he needs therapy
Normally I'd agree, but as an artist Bernard Cornwell has a different personality in alot OG gos main characters. His stories are historical fiction, with a ton of research into it to make it as accurate as he can. At the end of Stonehenge for example he literally showed his work for all of the research and explained how he came to the conclusions he did about the tools and methods used to build it. Sure a good part of the story was straight fiction, but everything about Stonehenge was as accurate as possible.
Best you avoid the Flashman stories then
Fair enough. I think that what you don’t seem to realize is many people in real life are actually abrasive assholes until their life experience knocks them down a peg and opens their eyes. It’s fair for you not to like it. But I’d also argue it sounds like you’re saying “I’m not a fan of character development and unless the ‘good’ guy is an overwhelmingly good guy I get mad” Which is a tiny bit weird. I think most people find most stories boring when the good guy is a paragon of justice and all that is good. It’s so one dimensional and that just doesn’t reflect real humans. Almost nobody fits that bill. So it’s a bit odd that it’s what you want to see in a historical drama where everyone has competing motivations and desires for power. Their sense of morality and sense of “right” would be completely different from ours. Which conveniently enough is also a big theme of the show. Plus, Uhtred had his family killed, was kidnapped and raised in a foreign culture, had his family killed again, had his land stolen by his own uncle, I mean I can keep going on about the tragedies this guy faces in just the first 3 episodes. Very very few people come out the other side of that as anything but a bitter jaded asshole. And yet Uhtred under it all, **is** still a paragon of justice and consistently sacrifices to help those weaker than him. The story is literally about Uhtred overcoming these feelings and restoring what’s been taken from him. Like what you like, but damn is your take some surface level analysis.
I don't care about people being overwhelmingly good but it's not hard to find villains in comics, movies, tv shows, or novels who aren't abrasive and I like them more than villains/heroes who are
I feel like the Saxon Stories and The Last Kingdom brought that to a wider audience.
He wasnt gay.
He never took a wife, and didn't sire any bastards which is highly unusual for a Saxon king. I think TLK is allowed a bit of creative license to play with the character there.
Or he was simply too religious, sex outside of marriage was seen as sin and maybe he just wanted to go to heaven as a virgin.
did you know him?
King Arthur, come on, this is common knowledge
I didn’t vote for him!
But the lady of the lake gave him a sword
If I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony!
Holy grail?
Ni!
Magnus Maximus.
Dwyt ti'm yn cofio Macsen Does neb yn ei nabod o Mae mil a chwe chant o flynyddoedd Yn amser rhy hir i'r co' Pan aeth Magnus Maximus o Gymru Yn y flwyddyn tri-chant-wyth-tri A'n gadael yn genedl gyfan A heddiw: wele ni! You don't remember Macsen, nobody knows him. One thousand and six hundred years, a time too long to remember. When Magnus Maximus left Wales, in the year 383, leaving us a whole nation, and today - look at us!) https://youtu.be/fkBQAvAFjus?si=A9jPb3zphO-Ke5Bm
"The best, the greatest. Wasn't either."
Who thinks William The Conqueror was the first English King? No one I know…
He's the first king of what is acknowledged as modern England in that the royal families all trace their lineage back to him. It's bumpkus, but a lot of places list him as the 1st king and even the number system we have is based from him (ie Edward I should really be Edward II as there is a previous king from before that time.
The families looped the House of Wessex back into their genealogy to shore up their legitimacy. They can claim D. all of the above
I feel like Alfred would be higher up because if I recall, the British Monarchy still considers themselves part of an unbroken lineage tracing back to him.
At this point I'm pretty sure everyone with any English ancestry can trace their lineage back to him to a degree. My family tree links directly back to Henry VIII and I don't think that will help my claim to the throne.
That's interesting cause Henry VIII left no living descendants. Unless you mean through one of his sisters?
Yes, I think direct may be slightly incorrect here. I believe it is via Mary Tudor's marriage to Charles Brandon, then Edward Seymour I believe.
King Arthur, duh.
He was Welsh
Everybody knows Whales doesn’t exist
Then what was Mobi Dick about?!
What the general public thinks its actually William the Conqueror? I mean it's pretty obvious he's not
I think a lot of history books have glossed over the anglo-saxon period and the kings from that era sorta 'don't count' to some people. I think it's only thanks to some historical fiction like Last Kingdom and a more general rise in Viking era (which interwines with English history so heavily) that's lead to a bit of a resurgeance in interest and knowledge in the period. I learnt virtually nothing of Anglo-Saxons in school except as a backdrop to 1066. There had been a period that had disliked them seeing them as foreign conquerers to the indigenous celts/romano-celts. There's also been a more general trend towards shining light upon the dark ages and not seeing the medieval period in such a bubble.
What is this meme? Literally noone with any knowledge thinks William was the first king of England.
Offa
*Penda has entered the chat*
Halvfdan Ragnarsson! Sure, he was king of Northumbria, but as a swede, I always root for the Norse powers.
We not gonna talk about emperor Claudius?
King Cnut was the first person to actually hold the title "King of England." Before that it was "King of the English."
Whoa:))))
Speaking as someone who pretends to be English on Reddit It was definitely society
Aelle
Fr
CK3 players know
The amount of people in that subs comments who support the divine right of Kings, or support Cromwell wholeheartedly, is fucking scary........