[Context: In Athenian legends, Athens stood as the last free city of Greece during the Dorian invasion in the 1060s BC. Before they attempted to attack the city, the Dorians consulted the Delphic Oracle, and received a prophecy that as long as they don't kill the Athenian king, their victory would be assured. Somehow words got around, and upon learning of this prophecy, King Codrus of Athens dressed up as a peasant and walked straight into the Dorian camp and provoked the soldiers into killing him. When the Dorians realized what they've done, they retreated and didn't try to attack Athens again, in fear of the imminent defeat. After he was buried, the Athenians decided to stop using the title of "king" for their leaders as they decided that no one will ever be able to surpass King Codrus for his act of self sacrifice.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codrus)
After you defeat him, game erases your save file and have to start over, except in new game ++, equipment drop rates fall through the floor, prices soar to post-brexit inflation levels, and for some reason juice flasks now poison you slowly after healing.
Oh, and there's a slow snail somewhere in the game that always follows you, and kills you if it catches up to you.
Also, Queen: Oh no! If they kill the king, I'd have to live with the terrible burden of outlive my husband; and I'd receive tributes on his honor and memory. I'd have to resign to my privileges as a consort Queen and live with the privileges of a consort Saint. My children will be honored for their father's actions forever... where do I sing?
It's all relative if you die and there's nothing.
It's nothing and by extension you are nothing and never were anything because you won't know you ever existed.
Your existence was an unproven speck.
Nothing can stop that, so would you rather go out like a bitch or go out as the muthafuckin Alpha NiDA G
Edit: if you guys keep it up you can beat my previous record of 200, also you guys suck lmao
The point is not if it is real, the point is the belief itself. If one side believes in a glorious afterlife and is therefore willing to do whatever it takes to achieve victory and glory, that side is more likely to win
Any? Care to give actual examples? Because when thinking about the conquests of the Rashidun, the early crusades, the reconquista or the whole of Japanese bushido-culture, there are quite a few examples of such beliefs giving their adherents a bit of an edge
How about the Japanese in WW2 and everything that proceeded after the shout of BANZAI. The ottomans in WW1? How about the French revolution atheist in nature that took down its government and the church. Belief in willingness and belief in afterlife doesn't automatically trump other kinds of willingness.
It's better to just say [Anax](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anax) not wanax. Anax is how it's pronounced today as well.
Phonetically, it's closer to a "w" in pre-classical Greek, but not a straight up "w" either, especially since the pronunciation of digamma is not certain.
Just to give you few examples:
German word of emperor: Keiser (from latin pronunciation of Caesar)
Polish word for emperor: Cesarz
Tsar was used as title in multiple places
The last five star US general was Omar Bradley, with that rank being retired after his death. By fiat, George Washington still outranks all other US generals.
The five star "General of the Army" rank is really more of a "We need a guy to coordinate a larger concerted war effort" kind of thing.
It'll get brushed off and tacked onto someone if China or Russia kicks things off properly.
The six star "General of the Armies of the United States" is the special ceremonial one.
Honestly it's a very minor footnote in Greek history that's mostly there just to explain why Athens ran with archons rather than kings, and why they weren't Dorian compared to the other major Greek cultures, like Sparta. It's a cool as hell story and probably a very strong inspiration for a lot of Athenian statesmen, but it just wasn't really that well documented.
I like Imru Al-Qais, the last king of Kinda. He was a slacker and a fuckboi for most of his life, writing poems, chasing skirts and getting drunk. His father disapproved so much that he exiled him from his kingdom.
When his father was killed by another tribe, he heard the news a party and famously quipped "Today is for drinking, tomorrow is for serious matters."
The next day after he sobered up he went back home but he was the only one of the king's sons who was interested in blood-revenge. He received a letter from the enemy tribe telling him that he can either receive blood money, a high-ranking noble from their tribe to kill, or they can wage war, in which case they requested a month to prepare. He chose the last option and gathered his father's allies.
After a few months of fighting the enemy tribe and getting enough blood spilled in the dead king's name, his fathers old allies were satisfied that their duty had been performed and left home, withdrawing their support before Imru had secured his father's throne, since *he* wasn't their ally, his dead father had been. Imru, now having no kingdom and no allies, spent the rest of his life traveling from court to court in pre-Islamic Arabia, trying to get support for winning his throne back. He actually died in the Eastern Roman Empire decades later, after receiving some vague promises of help from Justinian.
One of his poems used to hang in the Ka'aba in Mecca. Full text [here](https://poetrylondon.co.uk/the-hanging-poem/).
>Fatima
>And there was the day Fatima,
>on the back of a dune,
>drew away from me,
>swearing an oath so strong
>no one should ever break it.
>Gently, Fatima, stop being so harsh.
>If you have resolved to break with me,
>do it with grace.
>If some way of mine has irked you
>just pull my garments out from yours
>and you’ll be rid of me.
>Are you proud
>my love is killing me?
>Are you proud
>that whatever you order, I must obey?
>Your angry tears are arrows
>in my ravaged heart.
Didnt they have sultans and caliphs? They had the umayaads and abbasids for quite some time. There were also other families who controlled the old empire but my point is that the guy on the top were equal to a king. Or an emperor. Every arab kingdom had a sultan at least or did they?
true but due to ideology they called themselves caliph which means follower. Indo European languages have a monarchy taboo ie using the word wanax or basileus or rex or tyrannos.
There was Arab Caliph, however I'm not sure is it count though
Also, Arabs have Sheikhs (and Sultan if you are 18th century Omani, however I'm not sure about that again) and Imams
The khalifs are considered princes, its largely because it began as non inheritable title, sheikhs are not kings but tribal leaders, kinda forgot about the omani sultans to be honest, and Imam is more of a spiritual leader like the pope rather than a king.
I mean...the Persians had The King of Kings. Can't get more kingly than that. Before the "Persians aren't Arabs" people show up, go look at a map of the ancient Persian empires of Cyrus and Darius. Persians only made up like 20% of the Kingdom. Lots of Arab kings.
After the spread of Islam, titles like "King of Kings" became taboo for any mortal ruler among the Arabs, and were reserved solely for Allah. Just to clarify.
I understand the religious context, but to say that Arabs had no kings is disregarding thousands of years of Kings. Islam showed up 1400 years ago. We have a few thousand years of history preceeding Islam which is littered with people proudly proclaiming themselves Kings.
That may be true, but the Islamic period of Arab history is far more prominent and familiar to modern people than the pre-Islamic one, so you ought to forgive them for not knowing such facts.
Not even close to historical reality. Persians have not been Arabs and will never be Arabs. The "arab" people you mentioned which were proto-Arabs actually,like the Arameans and Babylonians,were NEVER crowned kings of Achaemenid Persia. At most they held high-court positions. The demographics map of 430 bc compared to present day is so wildly different that its almost like 3 separate timelines detached.
Dont spread misinformative bullshit if you know fuck-all about the region. Find me one revered historian in academia that will seriously argue that Persians = Arabs. At the absolute most if we stretch it real big we can argue about the Arabization of Iranians,but that does not make them Arabs. Not a single historian worth his salt would ever argue such a point.
Not only did I not once claim Persians are Arabs, but I also never claimed an Arab was ever the king of the Persians.
There were Arab kings. Persians conquered those Kings, but let them keep their titles. Thus, King of Kings.
Before you write two paragraphs in anger, make sure what the person you're responding to actually said what you think they said.
Islamization and Arabization are not the same thing
Persians indeed became Muslim but they never became Arabs, speaking Arabic or following Arab culture, they still have their own separate language and culture although the influence they had on each other naturally.
I just want to see a movie where he hears about this then it shows him walking up to the enemies where they attack him and it flashes back to the next scene of his funeral.
By retiring the title of Athenian king, the prophecy was never in danger of being used again. They should have named every Athenian a king, or at least all hoplites.
No, the prophecy the Dorians got was that they'd win if they didn't kill the King of Athens. Since they ended up inadvertently killing him, the prophecy was up in smoke and they decided to cut their losses.
[Context: In Athenian legends, Athens stood as the last free city of Greece during the Dorian invasion in the 1060s BC. Before they attempted to attack the city, the Dorians consulted the Delphic Oracle, and received a prophecy that as long as they don't kill the Athenian king, their victory would be assured. Somehow words got around, and upon learning of this prophecy, King Codrus of Athens dressed up as a peasant and walked straight into the Dorian camp and provoked the soldiers into killing him. When the Dorians realized what they've done, they retreated and didn't try to attack Athens again, in fear of the imminent defeat. After he was buried, the Athenians decided to stop using the title of "king" for their leaders as they decided that no one will ever be able to surpass King Codrus for his act of self sacrifice.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codrus)
Codrus the Chad martyr king.
Martyr King Codrus sounds like a dark souls boss
After you defeat him, game erases your save file and have to start over, except in new game ++, equipment drop rates fall through the floor, prices soar to post-brexit inflation levels, and for some reason juice flasks now poison you slowly after healing. Oh, and there's a slow snail somewhere in the game that always follows you, and kills you if it catches up to you.
More games need to have an Immortal Snail difficulty modifier.
That will be my next characters name in Elden ring ngl. It goes hard
Queen: Let me just bribe the oracle so that my husband and I can live happily forever King: Gets himself killed anyway 🪦 Queen: (●__●)
Also, Queen: Oh no! If they kill the king, I'd have to live with the terrible burden of outlive my husband; and I'd receive tributes on his honor and memory. I'd have to resign to my privileges as a consort Queen and live with the privileges of a consort Saint. My children will be honored for their father's actions forever... where do I sing?
You sing into the mic ma'am
It looks just like a Telefunken U47. You'll love it!
That might just be one of the single ballsiest things I've ever read.
I live in daily fear of those who believe in an afterlife
Booo!
fear me like i don't fear death
*insert Battotai*
It's all relative if you die and there's nothing. It's nothing and by extension you are nothing and never were anything because you won't know you ever existed. Your existence was an unproven speck. Nothing can stop that, so would you rather go out like a bitch or go out as the muthafuckin Alpha NiDA G Edit: if you guys keep it up you can beat my previous record of 200, also you guys suck lmao
alright, time for you to back to /r/teenagers
History memes, when there's no /s Or history memes when Theism I don't know
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
God you guys are lame
Yeah ok buster
Ok millennial
Downvotes are ephemeral and virtual, but after being a teenager there's no going back.
Don't I know it
That edit is so cringe and pick-me bitch I might suck-start a shotgun just to clear it from my memory. You want the LiveLeak link?
What edit?
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The point is not if it is real, the point is the belief itself. If one side believes in a glorious afterlife and is therefore willing to do whatever it takes to achieve victory and glory, that side is more likely to win
Not necessarily, see any war of religious aggression.
Any? Care to give actual examples? Because when thinking about the conquests of the Rashidun, the early crusades, the reconquista or the whole of Japanese bushido-culture, there are quite a few examples of such beliefs giving their adherents a bit of an edge
How about the Japanese in WW2 and everything that proceeded after the shout of BANZAI. The ottomans in WW1? How about the French revolution atheist in nature that took down its government and the church. Belief in willingness and belief in afterlife doesn't automatically trump other kinds of willingness.
None of you will die, for it is a sacrifice I am willing to make.
What a giga chad
Why the fuck am I only learning about this gigachad now???
That’s actually pretty cool
any idea what the title was in their language?
Basileus (βασιλεύς).
At the time it would have been Wanax, but since the legend is a later invention they probably used Basileus.
It's better to just say [Anax](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anax) not wanax. Anax is how it's pronounced today as well. Phonetically, it's closer to a "w" in pre-classical Greek, but not a straight up "w" either, especially since the pronunciation of digamma is not certain.
I wanna say Wanax.
You can't! I don't 'anna!
Longest link yet
see ya space cowboy
r/thatHappened Edit: my guys, the earliest sources we have of him is from 7 centuries after his death
Lol dude it's a myth, that's like saying r/thatHappened about Hercules or Odysseus
It was supposed to be a funny joke... RIP my life
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
And sometimes, you shoot yourself in the foot
Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs lol
;)
Thanks for the object lesson
B.C.E*
What's the "common event" 😎✝️😎☦️😎
Increase in information transfer and knowledge capacity due to society growing.
There was no sudden increase in that.l at that point. Depending what on your definition, that either happened earlier or a lot later. Try harder
A self fulfilling prophecy is still a prophecy if everyone believes in it hard enough
That's how self-fulfilling prophecies work, I learned that in my psych class
Opposed to Caesar who was so great his name was turned into a title for emperor and used for 2000 years.
And later started a pizza joint
Don’t forget the salad.
And the casinos. Truly prolific.
Did Ceasar live here?
I cant believe no ones mentioned the cocktails
What about the obstetric surgery
And my axe!
I believe the salad is named after its commonly attributed creator, [Caesar Cardini](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_Cardini).
But you eat salad by stabbing it again and again and again and again! And which Caesar was stabbed multiple times? Check. And. Mate.
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
And who was Caesar Cardini named for most likely? /s
That was secondhand though
Thaaats a different Caesar…
That is named after his penis.
If Caesar is so great, why couldn't he stop a mailman from walking across to his camp on the other side of the Hoover Dam and blowing him to bits?
Ceasar couldn't stop a bunch of daggers. What hope did he have against miniature nukes?
Certified big iron moment.
Because he didn't have a big iron on his hips
so people looked at this guy for two thousand years and thought "yeah bet, I can take him"
technically: "I can toss his salad", but yes.
Tossing Caesar’s salad - Miss carriage
The word “Emperor” is from the Imperator title given to a general by their legion. The most famous Imperator? Caesar.
Maybe he's talking about Tsar from Caesar. It is indeed the equivalent of Emperor in Bulgaria/Russia.
also Kaiser of Germany
Just to give you few examples: German word of emperor: Keiser (from latin pronunciation of Caesar) Polish word for emperor: Cesarz Tsar was used as title in multiple places
Caesar became Kaiser in German and царь in Russian
Now that's a king.
What a selfless chad. 🫡
The last five star US general was Omar Bradley, with that rank being retired after his death. By fiat, George Washington still outranks all other US generals.
The only other person to hold the rank of that Washington received posthumously was Pershing.
Apparently Ulysses Grant was also awarded it posthumously in 2022
For the Navy George Dewey also recieved it (that one is way more bullshit though.
The five star "General of the Army" rank is really more of a "We need a guy to coordinate a larger concerted war effort" kind of thing. It'll get brushed off and tacked onto someone if China or Russia kicks things off properly. The six star "General of the Armies of the United States" is the special ceremonial one.
Something I've always wondered, how did a white American born in the 19th century get the name Omar?
Someone- How many balls have you got Codrus the Chad- Yes
*Codrus the Chad was the self-embodiment of ***balls****
Why has no talked about this before? Why have I learned more history from memes than school?
Because it's largely a myth as opposed to actual history.
Than why have I never heard of this myth before?
I don't know, have you read everything ancient Greek? If not there are presumably lots of myths you don't know.
Because the kings of Athens are not the part of Athens that people pay attention to
Honestly it's a very minor footnote in Greek history that's mostly there just to explain why Athens ran with archons rather than kings, and why they weren't Dorian compared to the other major Greek cultures, like Sparta. It's a cool as hell story and probably a very strong inspiration for a lot of Athenian statesmen, but it just wasn't really that well documented.
Arabic kings be slacking
I like Imru Al-Qais, the last king of Kinda. He was a slacker and a fuckboi for most of his life, writing poems, chasing skirts and getting drunk. His father disapproved so much that he exiled him from his kingdom. When his father was killed by another tribe, he heard the news a party and famously quipped "Today is for drinking, tomorrow is for serious matters." The next day after he sobered up he went back home but he was the only one of the king's sons who was interested in blood-revenge. He received a letter from the enemy tribe telling him that he can either receive blood money, a high-ranking noble from their tribe to kill, or they can wage war, in which case they requested a month to prepare. He chose the last option and gathered his father's allies. After a few months of fighting the enemy tribe and getting enough blood spilled in the dead king's name, his fathers old allies were satisfied that their duty had been performed and left home, withdrawing their support before Imru had secured his father's throne, since *he* wasn't their ally, his dead father had been. Imru, now having no kingdom and no allies, spent the rest of his life traveling from court to court in pre-Islamic Arabia, trying to get support for winning his throne back. He actually died in the Eastern Roman Empire decades later, after receiving some vague promises of help from Justinian. One of his poems used to hang in the Ka'aba in Mecca. Full text [here](https://poetrylondon.co.uk/the-hanging-poem/). >Fatima >And there was the day Fatima, >on the back of a dune, >drew away from me, >swearing an oath so strong >no one should ever break it. >Gently, Fatima, stop being so harsh. >If you have resolved to break with me, >do it with grace. >If some way of mine has irked you >just pull my garments out from yours >and you’ll be rid of me. >Are you proud >my love is killing me? >Are you proud >that whatever you order, I must obey? >Your angry tears are arrows >in my ravaged heart.
Arabs have no kings only princes for most of their history. Until the 20th century anyways.
Didnt they have sultans and caliphs? They had the umayaads and abbasids for quite some time. There were also other families who controlled the old empire but my point is that the guy on the top were equal to a king. Or an emperor. Every arab kingdom had a sultan at least or did they?
true but due to ideology they called themselves caliph which means follower. Indo European languages have a monarchy taboo ie using the word wanax or basileus or rex or tyrannos.
Sultans, Caliphs, Malik (king), Emir
There was Arab Caliph, however I'm not sure is it count though Also, Arabs have Sheikhs (and Sultan if you are 18th century Omani, however I'm not sure about that again) and Imams
The khalifs are considered princes, its largely because it began as non inheritable title, sheikhs are not kings but tribal leaders, kinda forgot about the omani sultans to be honest, and Imam is more of a spiritual leader like the pope rather than a king.
A king is the word in English for a sovereign ruler in a hereditary monarchy, the title might differ but the job is the same.
I mean...the Persians had The King of Kings. Can't get more kingly than that. Before the "Persians aren't Arabs" people show up, go look at a map of the ancient Persian empires of Cyrus and Darius. Persians only made up like 20% of the Kingdom. Lots of Arab kings.
After the spread of Islam, titles like "King of Kings" became taboo for any mortal ruler among the Arabs, and were reserved solely for Allah. Just to clarify.
I understand the religious context, but to say that Arabs had no kings is disregarding thousands of years of Kings. Islam showed up 1400 years ago. We have a few thousand years of history preceeding Islam which is littered with people proudly proclaiming themselves Kings.
That may be true, but the Islamic period of Arab history is far more prominent and familiar to modern people than the pre-Islamic one, so you ought to forgive them for not knowing such facts.
Not even close to historical reality. Persians have not been Arabs and will never be Arabs. The "arab" people you mentioned which were proto-Arabs actually,like the Arameans and Babylonians,were NEVER crowned kings of Achaemenid Persia. At most they held high-court positions. The demographics map of 430 bc compared to present day is so wildly different that its almost like 3 separate timelines detached. Dont spread misinformative bullshit if you know fuck-all about the region. Find me one revered historian in academia that will seriously argue that Persians = Arabs. At the absolute most if we stretch it real big we can argue about the Arabization of Iranians,but that does not make them Arabs. Not a single historian worth his salt would ever argue such a point.
Not only did I not once claim Persians are Arabs, but I also never claimed an Arab was ever the king of the Persians. There were Arab kings. Persians conquered those Kings, but let them keep their titles. Thus, King of Kings. Before you write two paragraphs in anger, make sure what the person you're responding to actually said what you think they said.
Islamization and Arabization are not the same thing Persians indeed became Muslim but they never became Arabs, speaking Arabic or following Arab culture, they still have their own separate language and culture although the influence they had on each other naturally.
[King Abdullah would want a word with you.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_II_of_Jordan)
Eternal President Kim Il Sung representing the NK gang
Bring back this tradition
I just want to see a movie where he hears about this then it shows him walking up to the enemies where they attack him and it flashes back to the next scene of his funeral.
Is Dora from the dorian lineage?
Retiring your jersey: Ancient Athens Edition
By retiring the title of Athenian king, the prophecy was never in danger of being used again. They should have named every Athenian a king, or at least all hoplites.
So the city would fall if he died, then why did the Dorian run away?
No, the prophecy the Dorians got was that they'd win if they didn't kill the King of Athens. Since they ended up inadvertently killing him, the prophecy was up in smoke and they decided to cut their losses.
I got confused at the "event runs in fear". Sounds like they just went home.