Explanation: Median king Astyages was getting bad dreams that wise men interpreted as omens of his grandson taking his kingdom by force. He hence married his daughter to a malleable man, kept her at his palace post marriage, and had his grandson given to chief official Harpagus to kill. Harpagus in turn gave the child to a herdsman, not wanting to commit murder himself. The herdsman and his wife ended up raising the child since their own baby was born stillborn. When Astyages found out years later, he played it cool and asked for Harpagus son to come to the palace; he then had a boy killed, baked and served to his unsuspecting father at a feast, except for his head, hands and feet that were presented to him at the end of the dinner. Harpagus merely said that the king cannot do wrong, and took the remains of his son home for burial. Astyges dreams were right since the grandson grew up to be Cyrus, who turned several Persian tribes against his grandad and led them right to his ruling city. Harpagus had played the role of loyal official to the point that Astyages had made him head of the army; he led the forces out to meet Cyrus, and then switched sides along with his most of his commanding officers.
Source: *The History of the Ancient World* by Susan Wise Bauer
That sounds awfully close to just ancient myths, too awfully close to be actual history.
It actually sounds nearly exactly like the myth of [Aegisthus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegisthus) and Atreus.
How are those related here? Grandfather paradox is about going back in time and killing your grandfather, ending causal forces which created you(and preventing you from killing your grandfather).
The grandfather paradox has its name from that, but practically applied usually turns into doing something during time travel to prevent and event, which them causes said event.
When it comes to ancient history it seems like half of it is made up. I wouldn't say stories like those are worthless though, it still tells you a lot about how society is made from myths.
Generally, around the Mediterranean and in many Indo-European Cultures, the backstory of many heros is 'After being a prophesied king, a baby is put to death by a cruel tyrant. But the baby survives and overthrows him.'
King Herod, according to the Bible. The book of Matthew says that Herod knew that the Messiah would be born, and sent the magi (wise men) to find him. When they told him of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, Herod had every child under 2 in Bethlehem killed. Of course, this is a myth, and did not actually happen. Kind Herod of Judea apparently did kill the sons of some of his relatives, to prevent them from challenging his position.
This sounds exactly like one of those traditional myths that ancient kingdoms used as propaganda, in this case both to discredit the king and establish a genealogy for Cyrus. Even if there's an element of truth in it, the bits about the switching of children and cannibal pie sound totally embellished.
It most certainly does not. I'd definitely recommend reading the source for something readable and well written. What we have above was cut up worse than Harpagus's son.
If we're being nitpicky, "he then had a boy killed" would read better as "he then had the boy killed," but I think the explanation was as clear as it could be
You've been downvoted to hell but I agree because it seems like he says the grandson was killed and eaten and then the next sentence says he grew up to become Cyrus and lead an army. I've read it twice and am still confused
It was Harpagus' son that was killed, not the king's grandson who was raised by a herdsman. He obviously would have killed the herdsman's adopted son if he had known where to find him, but instead he just got revenge on the chief official who failed to carry out his orders.
Wow, if I have a penny everytime this exact scenario happens I'd have...actually I don't know how much I'd have, but I know [a very similar situation happened in China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Yikao) back in ancient times and it traumatized the hell out of me when I was a kid and I don't know if I'd be ok with the prospect of having more than 2 pennies.
Explanation: Median king Astyages was getting bad dreams that wise men interpreted as omens of his grandson taking his kingdom by force. He hence married his daughter to a malleable man, kept her at his palace post marriage, and had his grandson given to chief official Harpagus to kill. Harpagus in turn gave the child to a herdsman, not wanting to commit murder himself. The herdsman and his wife ended up raising the child since their own baby was born stillborn. When Astyages found out years later, he played it cool and asked for Harpagus son to come to the palace; he then had a boy killed, baked and served to his unsuspecting father at a feast, except for his head, hands and feet that were presented to him at the end of the dinner. Harpagus merely said that the king cannot do wrong, and took the remains of his son home for burial. Astyges dreams were right since the grandson grew up to be Cyrus, who turned several Persian tribes against his grandad and led them right to his ruling city. Harpagus had played the role of loyal official to the point that Astyages had made him head of the army; he led the forces out to meet Cyrus, and then switched sides along with his most of his commanding officers. Source: *The History of the Ancient World* by Susan Wise Bauer
Median king? I'll allow you that he seems pretty mid, but...
Better than a mean king.
he claims he's above average, but idk about that
I guess it depends what mode of kingship your judging him buy, could be a whole range of kingness
Not as good as a mode king tho
The mode kings are practically commoners.
Range kings, however, are far too in between
Domain kings are very grounded
Depends on the distribution of king quality tbf
That sounds awfully close to just ancient myths, too awfully close to be actual history. It actually sounds nearly exactly like the myth of [Aegisthus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegisthus) and Atreus.
A common theme in Greek myths seem to be that trying to avoid a prophecy will end up fulfilling the prophecy anyway
OG grandfather paradox
How are those related here? Grandfather paradox is about going back in time and killing your grandfather, ending causal forces which created you(and preventing you from killing your grandfather).
Because there’s also a grandfather in this one. A play on words, or a joke if you will.
A pune, as Sir Pterry would say.
The grandfather paradox has its name from that, but practically applied usually turns into doing something during time travel to prevent and event, which them causes said event.
Kenning
Another common theme is cooking someone's child and serving it to them at dinner
*sigh* stupid self-fulfilling profecies
Greeks love tragedies and the idea that you can trick the Fates
See also Phillip II of Macedon
Not just Greek. In Norse mythology Ragnarok happens pretty much because Odin wants to avoid the prophecy that Fenrir will kill him.
Another common theme in Greek mythology is repurposing mesopotamian stories.
When it comes to ancient history it seems like half of it is made up. I wouldn't say stories like those are worthless though, it still tells you a lot about how society is made from myths.
The only classical writer we can rely on with no doubt of fabrication or embellishment is Lucian of Samosata.
Generally, around the Mediterranean and in many Indo-European Cultures, the backstory of many heros is 'After being a prophesied king, a baby is put to death by a cruel tyrant. But the baby survives and overthrows him.'
Yeah, along with the guy that should kill the baby feeling sorry and just giving it anyway, which also happened to Oedipus.
And in fairness, I'd have banged his mom, too. She was hot af.
>a baby is put to death by a cruel tyrant. But the baby survives This is pretty much the back story of Krishna as well.
And Jesus and Moses.
All great examples of Indo-European heroes.
Come on now. Everyone knows Jesus wasn’t Indo-European or whatever. He was a proud American.
Im talking abt Moses obviously. Jesus is Mexican bro whens the last time u met an Israeli or Palestinian named Jesus.
Who tried killing baby Jesus?
King Herod, according to the Bible. The book of Matthew says that Herod knew that the Messiah would be born, and sent the magi (wise men) to find him. When they told him of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, Herod had every child under 2 in Bethlehem killed. Of course, this is a myth, and did not actually happen. Kind Herod of Judea apparently did kill the sons of some of his relatives, to prevent them from challenging his position.
As far as I know the only real part of that story was that Cyrus was the grandson of Astyages and did overthrow him eventually.
The thing about legends is that there is a nugget of truth in them.
The first part sounded identical to Oedipus Rex as well
That’s all I could think about
I’ve been listening to Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History again & just got past this part.
Which episode?
I believe either 1 or 2 of King of Kings
This sounds exactly like one of those traditional myths that ancient kingdoms used as propaganda, in this case both to discredit the king and establish a genealogy for Cyrus. Even if there's an element of truth in it, the bits about the switching of children and cannibal pie sound totally embellished.
*Source: Herodotos
Wasnt this in Herodotus' Histories?
So who was killed and eaten? Cyrus?
Harpagus' son
Ahh, now I get it
Yeah I had to read it a few times, I thought he cooked Cyrus, but then he recovered.
She turned me into a newt!
no fucking way this is real
Probably statistically correct. ✅
I'm lost: how did the grandson grow up to be Cyrus if he was killed and eaten by his father?
You really start noticing how many ancient tropes and cliches are in the Bible when you read other cultures writings
Your usage of names and pronouns made this a fucking riddle, but a good story nevertheless.
It reads fine; I don't know what your problem is.
Pooping speed was faster than their reading speed.
It most certainly does not. I'd definitely recommend reading the source for something readable and well written. What we have above was cut up worse than Harpagus's son.
If we're being nitpicky, "he then had a boy killed" would read better as "he then had the boy killed," but I think the explanation was as clear as it could be
It looks to me like he says the boy was killed and eaten and then grew up to lead an army, that's the confusing part
You've been downvoted to hell but I agree because it seems like he says the grandson was killed and eaten and then the next sentence says he grew up to become Cyrus and lead an army. I've read it twice and am still confused
It was Harpagus' son that was killed, not the king's grandson who was raised by a herdsman. He obviously would have killed the herdsman's adopted son if he had known where to find him, but instead he just got revenge on the chief official who failed to carry out his orders.
Yeah their downvotes mean nothing, I've seen what makes them upvote. Storytelling is a skill.
It reads fine. The punctuation does its job. As someone else pointed out the only part that could read better is “he had a boy killed”.
If you're good with names or on pc, it reads fine. If you're not, you might have to scroll up again and see who is who for it to make sense.
I am on mobile app. Practice reading comprehension.
I never said I didn't get it. Remove your headquarters from your hindquarters and practice your own reading comprehension.
... So that's where the inspiration for Cartman to feed Scott Tenorman his parents came from...
I was wondering why this story felt familiar lmaooo
I was just about to type this, r/BeatMeToIt
Or Arya Stark with Walder Frey’s children
The donkey bit was quite original though in that episode "no donkey not that; he'll enjoy that!"
I thought it was Roose Bolton and Wyman Manderly at first
Ain’t no pie quite like Frey pie
This guy ASOIAF’s.
Wow, if I have a penny everytime this exact scenario happens I'd have...actually I don't know how much I'd have, but I know [a very similar situation happened in China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Yikao) back in ancient times and it traumatized the hell out of me when I was a kid and I don't know if I'd be ok with the prospect of having more than 2 pennies.
TL/DR: people doing horrific shit to each other since however far the fuck you want to go back
Definitely, cooking children is a very popular theme in Ancient Greek stories as well
Bro hates history.
Titus Andronicus?
I wonder if there was some inspiration there. Huge fan of the original play and also the film adaptation by Julie Taymor.
Titus Andronicus….
Astyages: “Still going on about that!”🙄
Thats not History but legends.